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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Ryan Grim. This is so great to have

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Speaker 3: your hair, cris. If people are listening to this, they're like,

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Speaker 3: that's not very funny. You're just talking to Ryan Grim.

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Speaker 3: But no, I'm indeed joined today by the one and

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Speaker 3: only Crystal Ball.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for being here.

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Speaker 2: I would be happy to download Ryan's brain, but I

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Speaker 2: know I'll do my best here.

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Speaker 3: So we're going to start with updates this morning, Crystal.

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Speaker 3: In the case of Kilmara at Brego Garcia, we have

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Speaker 3: a lot to get to that happened over the last

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Speaker 3: twenty four hours. We're going to talk a little bit

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Speaker 3: about some of the movement in the markets and developments

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Speaker 3: in the trade war, also development in potentially an upcoming

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Speaker 3: hot war. Hopefully not, but Iran intentions continue to escalate

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Speaker 3: with Iran. There are so there were some moves taken

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Speaker 3: here in DC towards Trump administration officials who may not

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Speaker 3: be on board with the administration's plan just yesterday, who

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Speaker 3: ended up on administrative leave.

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Speaker 4: Will dive into all of that, Crystal.

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Speaker 3: The story of the IVY leagues in the second Trump

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Speaker 3: administration is heating up. Harvard is now pushing back on

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump, and you will be shocked to learn that

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Speaker 3: the Dems are in disarray.

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Speaker 2: Dare I say, maybe I don't know there? Yeah, I mean, yes,

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Speaker 2: they're always in disarry. But there's some interesting emerging data

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Speaker 2: about how, first of all, the Trump two point zero

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Speaker 2: era plus sort of centrist capitulation has really shifted the

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Speaker 2: Democratic base both against their leadership and also for the

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Speaker 2: first time that I can certainly recall, a majority are

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Speaker 2: saying they actually want the party to be more progressive,

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Speaker 2: and AOC is, according to one new poll, really rising

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Speaker 2: in the esteem the Democratic base as like an actual

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Speaker 2: potential national leader. So a lot of shifts happening there.

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Speaker 2: And then we have Brian Goldstone on written a really

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Speaker 2: important Wroten. Oh, this is going to be a great show,

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Speaker 2: written a really important new book about you know, we

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Speaker 2: talk so much about the working poor. He digs into

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Speaker 2: the working homeless, which is increasingly a reality. People who

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Speaker 2: are doing everything they can, working full time, but because

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Speaker 2: housing and rent is so expensive, they still cannot afford

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Speaker 2: a home. And he specifically tells the story of a

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Speaker 2: number of families in and around Atlanta. So I'm really

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Speaker 2: looking forward to talking to him about this because obviously

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Speaker 2: housing is just a central issue to everyone in the

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Speaker 2: entire country.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that as well. Crystal.

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Speaker 3: Let's start with developments in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Yesterday,

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Speaker 3: the judge in that deportation case said that she was

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Speaker 3: going to demand information from the government. Judge quote, we

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Speaker 3: have to give process to both sides, but we're going

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Speaker 3: to move There will be no tolerance for gamesmanship or

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Speaker 3: grand standing. Now, we have a clip here of Abrego

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Speaker 3: Garcia's wife speaking ahead of the hearing that happened yesterday

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Speaker 3: in Green Belt Maryland, so actually not too far from Washington, DC.

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Speaker 4: We can go ahead and roll this clip. It's a one.

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Speaker 5: You will not stop fighting until I see my husband alive, Kilmar.

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Speaker 5: If you can hear me, stay strong. God hasn't forgot

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Speaker 5: her about you. Our children are asking when would you

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Speaker 5: come home? And I pray for the day I tell

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Speaker 5: them the time and date that you'll return. As we

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Speaker 5: continue through Holy Week, my heart aches for my husband, Whoshia.

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Speaker 5: I had been here leading our Easter prayers. Instead, I

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Speaker 5: find myself leading with the Trump administration and the Bugel

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Speaker 5: administration to stop playing political games with the life of Kilmar.

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Speaker 5: Our family is torn apart during the scary time, and

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Speaker 5: our children's missed their dad so much so.

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Speaker 3: Crystal at the district judge in this case, ordered administration

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Speaker 3: officials I'm reading from NBC News here to quote turn

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Speaker 3: over evidence of their efforts to help bring him back

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Speaker 3: to the US, and she first ordered them to quote

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Speaker 3: facilitate his return, saying the government had not shown her

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Speaker 3: anything of note on that front. I've got nothing, she said,

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Speaker 3: I've gotten no real response and no real legal justification

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Speaker 3: for not answering, adding that if the admin is not

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Speaker 3: going to answer questions quote, then justify why that's what

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Speaker 3: we do in this house. And many people read that

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Speaker 3: as a sign that she was waiting weighing contempt charges

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Speaker 3: in this case, which would get incredibly interesting. It's already

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Speaker 3: quite an interesting case, but that would make it even

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Speaker 3: more interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So just to as a refresher for people, I know,

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Speaker 2: you guys probably know already some of the contours of

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Speaker 2: this case. And we actually, Emily, you and I and

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Speaker 2: Ryan had a chance to interview one of his lawyers

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Speaker 2: and get some of the specifics about the timeline.

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Speaker 6: Of how all of this ultimately unfolded.

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Speaker 2: But the Trump administration at least initially admitted that this

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Speaker 2: was an error. He had a court order saying you

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Speaker 2: cannot deport this man to El Salvador, and they deported

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Speaker 2: him to El Salvador and specifically do this notorious torture

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Speaker 2: dungeon in El Salvador. So they acknowledged that they had

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Speaker 2: made a mistake, both in court filings and also in

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Speaker 2: their presentation in court. And their position was we screwed up,

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Speaker 2: but we're not going to do anything about it.

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Speaker 6: You can't make us and.

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Speaker 2: That's been their official position now over the past several days,

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Speaker 2: led by Stephen Miller, they are now reversing course and

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Speaker 2: claiming that no, actually this wasn't a mistake.

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Speaker 6: This is the place where he should be.

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Speaker 2: So they've had a rhetorical shift, but in terms of

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Speaker 2: their court posture, the things that they said previously and

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Speaker 2: attested to previously remain that this was a clear cut

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Speaker 2: error that he had in order barring his removal to

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Speaker 2: El Salvador, and the administration screwed up when they sent

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Speaker 2: him to this torture dungeon. So now where we are

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Speaker 2: is the Supreme Court says you have to facilitate his return.

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Speaker 2: They say, we want a clarification on this term effectuate

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Speaker 2: that came from the District Court because it could potentially

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Speaker 2: conflict with the foreign policy prerogatives of the executive So

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Speaker 2: we want a clarification there. The district court judge said,

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Speaker 2: you know, just facilitates good enough. I'm just going to

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Speaker 2: take that word effectuate out. Then she ordered the government

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Speaker 2: to on a daily basis, provide an update about his

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Speaker 2: well being and status and about every step they are

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Speaker 2: taking to facilitate his return. The Trump administration has at

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Speaker 2: this point done nothing to facilitate the return those filings

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Speaker 2: which are supposed to come in I believe at five

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Speaker 2: pm every day. They've been late with them. They have

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Speaker 2: not been sufficient in terms of what they are supposed

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Speaker 2: to provide. They frequently know. One of them just said, like,

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Speaker 2: he's alive and he's in the sovereign custody of l Salvador. Basically,

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Speaker 2: so this judge has been for a little while now

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Speaker 2: sort of building a case for potential contempt is certainly

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Speaker 2: what it looks like. And if we put a five

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Speaker 2: up on the screen, this is the headline from Politico.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday's hearing really was kind of a coming to a head,

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Speaker 2: kind of a moment after Trump had hosted Kelly himself

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Speaker 2: in the White House and they played this little game

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Speaker 2: with Trump saying I can't bring him back, and but

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Speaker 2: Kelly saying, oh well, I don't can't release him.

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Speaker 6: Both of them.

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Speaker 2: Acting like they're powerless, which obviously is utterly absurd. Politico says,

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Speaker 2: the judge is now launching an inquiry into the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration's refusal to seek the return of this wrongly deported man. Again,

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Speaker 2: this is really directly in convention of a nine to

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Speaker 2: zero Supreme Court ruling, saying you have to help to

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Speaker 2: facilitate this man's return. And so what the judge is

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Speaker 2: saying is, Okay, you've got two weeks. We are launching

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Speaker 2: an intensive investigation. She even said, cancel your vacation plans.

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Speaker 2: I don't want any messing around, no gamesmanship. She's giving

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Speaker 2: the the uh, She's giving them a chance to depose

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Speaker 2: the government witnesses, people who have specific knowledge, to get

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Speaker 2: them specifically on the record about what they know. And

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Speaker 2: then it does seem like potentially this is building up

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Speaker 2: to a finding of contempt. You know, we have had

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Speaker 2: many instances at this point, Emily of this administration either

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Speaker 2: really taking liberties with how they're interpreting judgments, with trying

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Speaker 2: to escape by of not really complying with judicial orders

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Speaker 2: but giving themselves some sort of rhetorical cover. And I

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Speaker 2: think we've all been wondering when does this come to

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Speaker 2: a point where there is a direct clash between the

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Speaker 2: courts and between the Trump administration, And I think this

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Speaker 2: is the case that is heading to that point. The

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Speaker 2: last thing I said, I'll say, and this is going

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Speaker 2: on a bit of a tangent, but the reason this

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Speaker 2: case is important is because and the reason why the

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Speaker 2: administration is fighting so hard on this case is because

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Speaker 2: the moment you open the door to being able to

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Speaker 2: bring people back from that prison, then it ruins their

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Speaker 2: plan to be able to send people there whoever they want,

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Speaker 2: including apparently American citizens, with no due process. If the

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Speaker 2: courts have any sort of say over what happens in

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Speaker 2: that prison, then it screws up what they have been

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Speaker 2: wanting to do, which is to use the Alien Enemies

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Speaker 2: Act and whatever provisions potentially the insurrection or whatever they

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Speaker 2: want to do with regard to US citizens, where they

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Speaker 2: feel like, if we can just get them on the

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Speaker 2: planes fast enough, then we don't have to deal with

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Speaker 2: the court system. We don't have to go through due process,

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Speaker 2: they don't get to have their say in court, and

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Speaker 2: we can just say, oopsie, they're already there. There's nothing

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Speaker 2: we can do. The moment that you are able to

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Speaker 2: bring kilmar Abrego Garcia back to the United States and

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Speaker 2: they are forced to do that, that plan is completely undermined,

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Speaker 2: which underscores that even though you know, we've talked a

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Speaker 2: lot about the specifics of the case, the specifics of

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Speaker 2: the case certainly matter. All that is important, but this

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Speaker 2: is about much more than this one man. And it truly,

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Speaker 2: especially with Trump out there talking about the quote unquote homegrowns,

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Speaker 2: truly does have direct implications for the entire population, citizen

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Speaker 2: and non.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's get to that clip. Actually, control room, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to go out of order, but this is a four.

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Speaker 3: It was from an interview that Donald Trump, or at

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Speaker 3: least aired yesterday evening on Fox and Notesius with Rachel

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Speaker 3: Kipo Stuffy.

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Speaker 4: So here's Donald Trump a four. Could we use it

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Speaker 4: for violent criminals? Our own violent criminals.

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Speaker 7: I call them homegrown criminals. I mean the ones that

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Speaker 7: grew up and something went wrong and they hit people

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Speaker 7: over the head with a baseball bat. We have and

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Speaker 7: pushed people into subways just before the train gets there,

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Speaker 7: like you see happening. Sometimes we are looking into it

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Speaker 7: and we want to do it.

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Speaker 4: I would love to do that. So to your point, Crystal,

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Speaker 4: that is rather chilling.

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Speaker 3: I'm not quite sure how the Trump administration envisions that

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Speaker 3: process or that execution, but something that we will obviously

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Speaker 3: be keeping an eye on. And I want to play

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Speaker 3: this clip of Caroline Levitt as we transition into how

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Speaker 3: Democrats are now mounting a response. This is a three

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Speaker 3: Carolyn Levett Yesterday's White House Press briefing addressing many questions

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Speaker 3: on the case of Abrigo Garcia, still going.

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Speaker 8: Off the Alfabador questions.

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Speaker 9: Yesterday in the Oval Office, administration officials made it very

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Speaker 9: clear that Al Salvador is responsible for mister Abrido Garcia.

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Speaker 9: Yet Al Salvador's president said, we're not going to do.

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Speaker 4: Anything with him.

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Speaker 8: So my question is who is responsible for this man

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Speaker 8: and where he's going.

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Speaker 5: To end up.

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Speaker 10: Well, No, first of all, President Bukelli said that he

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Speaker 10: is not going to smuggle a foreign terrorist back into

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Speaker 10: the United States of America as many in this room

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Speaker 10: in the Democrat Party seemingly want him to do. Abrago

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Speaker 10: Garcia was a foreign terrorist. He is an MS thirteen

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Speaker 10: gang member, He was engaged in human trafficking.

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Speaker 11: He illegally came into our country.

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Speaker 10: And so deporting him back to El Salvador was always

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Speaker 10: going to be the end result.

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Speaker 11: There is never going.

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Speaker 10: To be a world in which this is an individual

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Speaker 10: who's going to live a peaceful life in Maryland because

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Speaker 10: he is a foreign terrorist MS thirteen gang member. Not

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Speaker 10: only have we confirmed that President Bukelly yesterday in the

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Speaker 10: Oval Office confirmed that as well, so he went back

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Speaker 10: to his home country where he will face consequences for

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Speaker 10: his gang affiliation and his engagement in human trafficking. I'm

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Speaker 10: not sure what is so difficult about this for everyone

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Speaker 10: in the media to understand.

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Speaker 11: And it's appalling, truly appalling that there has.

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Speaker 10: Been so much time covering this alleged human trafficker and

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Speaker 10: this gang member MS thirteen gang member.

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Speaker 11: It's truly striking to me.

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Speaker 3: So Crystal, I just this case study. The Trump administration

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Speaker 3: picked the dumbest possible fight as it's trying to do

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Speaker 3: mass deportations because.

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Speaker 4: An I think from your perspective, there's.

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Speaker 3: Maybe strategy in it about what they can do with

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Speaker 3: deportations to Al Salvador in particular. But it is founding

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Speaker 3: how stupid this particular case study is. There are, according

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Speaker 3: to the New York Times, there were like eight million

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Speaker 3: net new migrants into this country over the course of

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Speaker 3: the Biden administration. That is the population of multiple states

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Speaker 3: put together. And their case studies are kilmar Abrego Garcia.

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Speaker 3: They have very little evidence that he actually is MS thirteen,

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Speaker 3: and there were also legal processes in place that they

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Speaker 3: did not properly deal with and you have the other

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Speaker 3: alleged trend Aragua members, the Venezuelan barber et cetera, as

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Speaker 3: Dropsite has reported, and more down in Al Salvador as well,

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Speaker 3: and they're trying to do mass deportations, but they keep

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Speaker 3: stumbling into the dumbest possible fights, not just for a

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Speaker 3: media perspective, but also for the actual substance of doing

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Speaker 3: these policies. The execution has really been disaster, and it's

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Speaker 3: just like unbelievable how poorly they've handled this situation. It's

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Speaker 3: a real like when you're looking back in the last

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Speaker 3: four years of the Biden administration. For the Trump administration,

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Speaker 3: this is a slam dunk. And I think that's almost

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Speaker 3: hurt them because they came into this with so much

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Speaker 3: confidence and hubrious and political capital that they've just wasted

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Speaker 3: it by not handling these legal processes carefully enough, because

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Speaker 3: they thought, ah, it won't matter. People just want others gone,

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Speaker 3: so it'll be like a cool Libs on the Libs

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Speaker 3: moment to send people down to bu Calae. Now as

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Speaker 3: we transition to Democrats, I want to.

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Speaker 2: Let me just let me just say, look, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: these people are fascists. They want to be able to

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Speaker 2: ship whoever they want to a torture dungeon for life.

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Speaker 2: The entire purpose of that prison is so that people

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Speaker 2: never leave, never leave. You're talking about this man who

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Speaker 2: Caroline Lovitt says alleged human traffic. There is zero evidence

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Speaker 2: of human trafficking. No one has ever said that they

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Speaker 2: will just make shit up MS thirteen. Bullshit is because

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Speaker 2: he was wearing a Chicago Bulls hat. That's what we're

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Speaker 2: talking about here. We learned about a nineteen year old

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Speaker 2: who didn't even have a tattoo, who I said, this

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Speaker 2: is the wrong guy. Didn't matter. He is now there

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Speaker 2: being tortured in this prison for life. And their position

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Speaker 2: is we don't care. It's not that they genuinely think

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Speaker 2: these are gang members and they're no. The point is

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Speaker 2: to prove they can send anyone you, me, your family,

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Speaker 2: your brother, That is the point. So yes, it's a strategy,

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Speaker 2: and that's why this fight is so important, because number one,

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Speaker 2: you should care about this man who does not deserve this.

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Speaker 2: I mean very few people do deserve to be locked

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Speaker 2: in this dungeon, which is rife with human rights abuses.

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Speaker 6: You barely get fed.

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Speaker 2: It's like sixty people in a cell, no mattresses, no blankets,

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Speaker 2: no time outside, even none life. That's what they have

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Speaker 2: sent these people to do. And again, yes, there was

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Speaker 2: a significant backlash against the Biden administration immigration policies, but

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Speaker 2: when you ask people even more specific questions about like, hey,

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Speaker 2: should we depoor people who've been here for ten years

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Speaker 2: and have no criminal record, they're like no. But they

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Speaker 2: were convinced that the immigrant population was just rife with

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Speaker 2: all sorts of criminals. And that's the other thing with

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Speaker 2: this policy that the reason why they can't send off

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Speaker 2: the worst of the worst is because, yeah, of course

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Speaker 2: there are some number of undocumented immigrants who are criminals,

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Speaker 2: much less than the native born population, and so it's

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Speaker 2: not so easy to round up planeloads of criminals to

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Speaker 2: make your big statement.

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Speaker 6: So what do they do instead?

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Speaker 2: They round up the gay barber, They round up this

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Speaker 2: nineteen year old who's done nothing wrong. They round up

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Speaker 2: Kilmar Abrego Garcia who has a court order saying you

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Speaker 2: cannot do this, and then they ship them off before

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Speaker 2: anyone has a chance to say, well are these gang members?

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Speaker 6: Did they commit any crimes?

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Speaker 2: We now know ninety percent of the people that they

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Speaker 2: sent committed no crimes ninety percent. So that's I want

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Speaker 2: to be really clear about what we're dealing with here.

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Speaker 2: It's not an optics problem, it's not a strategy problem.

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Speaker 2: It is an authoritarian fascism problem. That's that's what it is.

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Speaker 2: And so when Trump is out here saying the homegrowns

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Speaker 2: are next, you know again they're actually When they've pulled

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Speaker 2: even on criminal American citizens being sent to this torture dungeon,

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Speaker 2: people have said no, I'm no, no way.

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Speaker 6: Like, why would we do that?

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Speaker 2: But there is no reason you should have any confidence

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Speaker 2: that this administration would truly send the quote unquote worst

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Speaker 2: of the worst. Their worst of the worst is Andre

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Speaker 2: the gay makeup artist who was applying for asylum. That's

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Speaker 2: their definition of the worst of the worst. We know

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Speaker 2: the way that they're expanding the definition of terrorism to

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Speaker 2: include people who dare say the wrong thing about Israel,

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Speaker 2: people who harbor ill sentiment against Tesla's, people who go

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Speaker 2: to hands off protest to push back against the insanity

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Speaker 2: that they see unfolding in their country. That's who they

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Speaker 2: want to use these powers against. To transition to what

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Speaker 2: the Democrats are doing and why they've finally somewhat woken up.

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Speaker 2: You've got Chris van Holland, who's the Senator from Maryland,

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Speaker 2: and kil Marra Brego Garstia, of course was living in Maryland,

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Speaker 2: and he said, you know what, I'm going to El

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Speaker 2: Salvador to Apparently today, I'm going to El Salvador and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to try to figure out what is going on.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to try to get access to him. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to try to talk to you diplomats or if

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Speaker 2: he can, the president of El Salvador himself. There are

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Speaker 2: other efforts for other politicians to be able to go

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Speaker 2: because they finally realized that this isn't this is part

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Speaker 2: of a broader project. This is not just about this

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Speaker 2: one man. And guess what the people are on your side.

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Speaker 2: There is the when you ask people, do you want

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Speaker 2: to and send to a torture dungeon an innocent man

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Speaker 2: because of an ad ministry of error and never get

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Speaker 2: him back. Guess what you're going to be on the

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Speaker 2: right side of those politics. Let's take a listen a

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Speaker 2: six to chrispin Holland.

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Speaker 12: I saw the comments of President ou Kayley and I

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Speaker 12: look forward to meeting with them. I've requested to meet

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Speaker 12: with him. I reached out to the ambassador here to

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Speaker 12: ask to meet while he's here, but I've also made

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Speaker 12: clear if we can't meet here, I do intend to

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Speaker 12: go to El Salvador to discuss the release of this

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Speaker 12: individual who is illegally detained. First President Trump could have

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Speaker 12: just said, you know, bring him home. Of course, he

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Speaker 12: could have done that, but this is an administration that

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Speaker 12: has lied about mister Brago Garcia, right, the Vice President

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Speaker 12: the United States tweeted out that he had a criminal record.

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Speaker 5: That was a lie.

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Speaker 12: They're just lying. They've gotten caughtline, they don't want to

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Speaker 12: admit it, and they have an obligation to bring him home.

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Speaker 12: But I will say the President of El Salvador should

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Speaker 12: not now take it upon himself to say that he

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Speaker 12: is detaining him for one more day, because that is kidnapping.

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Speaker 12: I understand that the Attorney General said that we would

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Speaker 12: provide a plane to bring him home. So all the

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Speaker 12: President of Al Salvador has to do now is hand

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Speaker 12: over and release an innocent man and let him come

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Speaker 12: home to his family.

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Speaker 4: And oh, go ahead, Chrysal.

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Speaker 2: I was just going to say, and of course, if

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Speaker 2: Trump asked b. Kelly, we need this guy back. He

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Speaker 2: would be back.

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Speaker 6: If b.

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Speaker 2: Kelly went to the prison that he runs under a

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Speaker 2: state of exception and said we need this guy, of

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Speaker 2: course he would.

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Speaker 6: Be able to get this guy back.

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Speaker 2: There were some women who we tried to send to

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Speaker 2: in a few individuals who are from other Central American countries,

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Speaker 2: and but Kelly said, no, we can't take women. We

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Speaker 2: can't take these other people. He's worried about his relationship

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Speaker 2: with these other Central and South American countries, so he

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Speaker 2: sent them back as well. Like they're playing this game

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Speaker 2: as if we're idiots and we can't see what's going

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Speaker 2: on here.

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Speaker 3: So we can put the next element up on the screen.

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Speaker 3: Other Democrats are doing what Van Holland is doing a

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Speaker 3: horribly including Senator Corey Booker and planning trips down to

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Speaker 3: Al Salvador. Trying to plan trips down to Al Salvador.

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Speaker 3: This is according to a new report from Axios. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: the Trump administration, if we put a seven up on

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Speaker 3: the screen, continues to to your point, Crystal Lean very

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Speaker 3: firmly into this case.

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Speaker 4: Vice President J.

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Speaker 3: D Vance was mixing it up with actually zed Jlaanni

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Speaker 3: on X yesterday, going.

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Speaker 6: Back Richard Hannanian too. I think, oh, really.

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Speaker 3: Was he tweeting Hanani? Oh my goodness, Okay, he was.

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Speaker 3: He was definitely tweeting back and forth with Zed. In

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Speaker 3: this particular exchange, Zed was making the point he said,

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Speaker 3: why do you say berger Garcia has no legal right

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Speaker 3: to be here when the Supreme Court's at the opposite

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Speaker 3: nine to zero. And that was in response to JD saying,

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Speaker 3: are you proposing that we invade This is to Michel Jellette,

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Speaker 3: we invade Al Salvador to retrieve a gang member with

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Speaker 3: no legal right to be in our country. Where in

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court's decision does it require us to do that?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 3: Obviously, Crystal bou Kelly is an ally of this administration.

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Speaker 3: Bu Kelly was sitting next to them in the Oval

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Speaker 3: office just twenty four hours before that tweet was posted,

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Speaker 3: and would obviously help them facilitate or effectuate the return

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Speaker 3: of Abrego Garcia to the United States. But the administration

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Speaker 3: is very much leaning into this idea that this is

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Speaker 3: a guy MS thirteen.

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Speaker 4: He can be sent anywhere.

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Speaker 3: And I just want to say the point that you

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Speaker 3: were making about El Salvador in particular, it is a

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Speaker 3: this is going to be an enormous problem I think

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Speaker 3: for the right in the next couple of years, this

439
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 3: relationship with Boukele this particular prison, because a lot of

440
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 3: Republicans Democrats are now making the truck down to El

441
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,919
Speaker 3: Salvador or trying to a lot of Republicans have gone

442
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 3: with Christinome. Republican members of Congress have gone and done

443
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 3: photo ops inside of that prison. They have done their

444
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 3: photo ops with Nahebukel. That is anti American. What is

445
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 3: happening in that prison is anti American. And I get

446
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 3: that other countries are not accepting their own citizens, and

447
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 3: I think.

448
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 4: That is genuinely a problem. I agree with JD.

449
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 3: Vance and Donald Trump on I think that is genuinely

450
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 3: a problem. Sending them to dungeons in El Salvador is

451
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 3: not actually going to long term fly with the public.

452
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: If you are also ignoring the legal process is that

453
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 3: are in place when people have done things, and this

454
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 3: is what Biden I mean.

455
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 4: Some of this is through Joe Biden.

456
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 3: Abrado Garcia applied for asylum, and I think he actually

457
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 3: applied for asylum during the Trump administration. When he first applied,

458
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 3: I think it was twenty nineteen but there are a

459
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 3: lot of people because these pathways were open up to

460
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 3: the Biden administration, and that means the Trump administration has

461
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 3: to deal with that. It sucks and it's not fair

462
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 3: in every case, but it does mean that we have

463
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 3: legal processes in place where you do have to deal

464
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 3: with those things. Otherwise, to your point, Crystal, everyone else's

465
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 3: rights get eroded down the line. And the flippancy is

466
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 3: I mean, it has some conservatives. Andy McCarthy is one,

467
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 3: Rod Dreher is another, like really freaked out by what

468
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 3: they're seeing from the Trump administration more than I Honestly,

469
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 3: I think this is more than I've seen on another

470
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:26,239
Speaker 3: issue in the second Trump administration. It's been upsetting to

471
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: some people on the right. The only other thing I'll add, though,

472
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 3: is Democrats need to be really careful because as important

473
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 3: as I think this is, it's going to make it

474
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 3: look like they got all up in arms about one

475
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 3: guy who did legitimately enter the country illegally when net

476
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 3: eight million people came into the country. They need to

477
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 3: play this very very carefully. Under the Biden administration, often

478
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 3: with their support, So I do think they have to

479
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 3: be careful with how they approach going to Al Salvador,

480
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 3: which I think, by the way, is legitimately a brave

481
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 3: thing to do, given how Bugle is likely to try them.

482
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 4: And respect on that part.

483
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 3: But they with their own constituents, I mean, Democrats were

484
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 3: unhappy with the Biden administration and immigration policies, so they

485
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 3: do need to play that pretty carefully.

486
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: I think some of that is overstated because, like I said, yes,

487
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: if you ask people, okay, should we do mass deportation,

488
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 2: there's still you know, somewhat of a consensus there. If

489
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 2: you ask them any of the specifics, the view is

490
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: very different, and no, they are not on board with

491
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 2: shipping random innocent people to this torture dungeon for life.

492
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: So but also, frankly, even if the politics were bad,

493
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: like sometimes you have to fight. Sometimes it's important, sometimes

494
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 2: you have to make the case.

495
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,239
Speaker 3: You know this, Yeah, I think they should have done

496
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 3: that during Biden. I genuinely think that's on the substance.

497
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 3: They should have done that during the Biden administration, done

498
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 3: what they should have taken what was happening at the border.

499
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 3: Much more seriously, during the Biden ad ministries, I've been

500
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: saying Republicans did it for the right reason. But I mean,

501
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 3: I think it was pretty obvious there was something DISASTERUS.

502
00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 4: Well.

503
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a whole other conversation because in my view,

504
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: what Democrats did is completely capitulate to the right wing

505
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 2: immigration hawk framing in a way that was utterly disastrous.

506
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: Now I think there is likely to be a huge

507
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: backlash in the other direction. I mean, immigration expansion has

508
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: ever been more popular than it was during the first

509
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 2: Trump administration because people were disgusted with the tactics that

510
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: he was using then and it is nothing compared to

511
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 2: what they're doing now. And also the very clear with

512
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 2: Trump talking about homegrowns, very clear implication that US citizens

513
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 2: are going to be next. So last thing, just with

514
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: regard to the specifics of Abrego Garcia, if we could

515
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: put a eight up on the screen, just in terms

516
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: of their supposed proof that he's some hardened MS thirteen

517
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 2: gang member. Apparently the cop who was the person who

518
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,719
Speaker 2: initially claimed that he had alleged MS thirteen membership based

519
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 2: on some sketchy confidential informant that are you know, they're

520
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: known to be not particularly reliable. He was fired and

521
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: indicted like weeks later after making this claim for sharing

522
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: case info with a sex worker, and the only other

523
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 2: evidence that they have that and by the way, the

524
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 2: confidential informant claim that he was part of MS thirteen

525
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: in a part of the country in New York where

526
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,959
Speaker 2: he doesn't live and like has you know, rarely, if

527
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 2: ever even been to. And then the only other piece

528
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: of evidence they have is that he was wearing a

529
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: Chicago bulls hat.

530
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 6: So that's what.

531
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: We're talking about. And then when Caroline Love it's like, oh,

532
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: he's a human trafficker. No one has ever said that.

533
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 2: That is completely utterly made up false. So, you know,

534
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: I think Democrats have to fight on this issue both

535
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: you know, I do think they're on solid political ground.

536
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: But even if they're not, Like, you cannot create a

537
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: massive loophole in the law that allows the Trump administration

538
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: to disappear whoever they want, whenever they want, and be

539
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: able to uphold this and we can can't do anything

540
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: once they're there.

541
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 4: That's that when it's not good for anyone.

542
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the whenever civil liberties are threatened, it's

543
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: you know, always the point. You can tell if people

544
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 3: are principal defenders of civil liberty by how vehemently they

545
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 3: defend due process when their enemy's due process is threatened.

546
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 4: And so yeah, I.

547
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 3: Mean it could very well end up being used by

548
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 3: a democratic administration down the road if we slide fully

549
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: into Banana Republicanism in a way that hurts Republicans, in

550
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: a way that hurts conservatives, Christians, whatever. You can see

551
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 3: how it would. Those standards can can very easily slip.

552
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: So we have to before we run on this, Crystal,

553
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 3: we have to get the next element up on the screen.

554
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 6: The way we found this.

555
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 4: Love this Christine Nome.

556
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 3: It's sort of a funny image if you're watching this.

557
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: The Daily Beasts made a funny image to go along

558
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 3: with that of Christy Noman, all of her outfits, kind

559
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: of treating herself like a Barbie. And the Daily Beast writes,

560
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: Ice Barbie keeps creating all kinds of headaches for homeland security.

561
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: But actually there was a wash Journal is a long

562
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 3: while street journal story yesterday that indicated Christy Nomes peers

563
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 3: are not pleased with her. They think that she, according

564
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 3: to this report in the Journal, is harming their efforts

565
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 3: actually to try and do mass deportations. And Crystal, I

566
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 3: think what this highlights is there are real fractures within

567
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: the administration because doing these mass deportations in a way

568
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: that is actually mass if you're if you're actually going

569
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 3: to hit the targets that the Trump administration promised to do,

570
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 3: if you are going to do it without causing these

571
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 3: protracted legal battles where even the right is divided on

572
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 3: how legally or how legally dubious your track is in

573
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 3: that case, and if you're also going to do it

574
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 3: in a way that is politically.

575
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 4: Going well, they are not doing that right now.

576
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: There's a lot of internal consternation about how ably this

577
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: administration is approaching it. And it looks like Christy No

578
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 3: is going to be taking some arrows Charity is in

579
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal, But this could bubble to the

580
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: surface for her in a rather problematic way going forward

581
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 3: that can make all of those bouquele photo ops and

582
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: outfits look really foolish.

583
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, she's playing dress up like it's preposterous.

584
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: She's just making herself look utterly ridiculous. Did you see

585
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 2: the video where her like big ass gun was like

586
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: pointed at some at the dude next to HER's head

587
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: and he like takes a look at where her gun

588
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: is pointed and like backs up sort of subtly. I mean,

589
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: it's just she's a ridiculous person. I mean the Barbie

590
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 2: Moniker is actually accurate here because she has all these

591
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: little like dress up outfits she's taking here herself, swapping

592
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: in you know, Oh, she's doing her coastguard thing. She's

593
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: doing her She's got her ice flat jacket on. I

594
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: mean she had like a freaking ice like the big

595
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: bulletproof vest on in Manhattan, like the streets of New

596
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: York City, Like, girl, where do you think you are?

597
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: It's in with the full extension and the full eyelashes

598
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 2: and the whole bit. And it's also like, lady, you're

599
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: like fifty something years old. You know, it's I don't know,

600
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 2: the whole thing is just it is just a part

601
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: of a grotesque spectacle to me. So I'm glad at

602
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: least someone is also noticing and being like, you know what,

603
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 2: this is kind of gross.

604
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 4: Well, Megan Kelly went after her. That reminds me.

605
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: Megan Kelly and some others have started, I think and

606
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: Culter have started going after her.

607
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 4: Sarah Palin went after her. Really, so yeah, she's doing

608
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 4: taking some eras.

609
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 6: What did Megan go after her for the outfits? Really? Yeah,

610
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 6: it's ridiculous.

611
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 4: It is.

612
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 6: It's like embarrassing.

613
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 3: It really is, like she's a law enforcement officer. It's

614
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,479
Speaker 3: starting to look complete. I mean, I shouldn't say its

615
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 3: starting to look it looks completely unseerious and ridiculous. But

616
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: I think this is genuinely a problem for the administration

617
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 3: because this was like their big ticket issue that they

618
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 3: can't at well. And the economy. The Trump administration has

619
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: some real problems ahead. Let's get to that, because actually,

620
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: what we want to say to start with is this

621
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 3: sort of Harry Enton on CNN yesterday talking about some

622
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 3: of the movement for Donald Trump in the in polling

623
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 3: as this trade war has proceeded.

624
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 4: So let's go ahead and roll b one here.

625
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 13: Focus in on Independence here, and Independence feel that Donald

626
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,239
Speaker 13: Trump has vacated the center of the electric catering to

627
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 13: his base. What are we talking about, Well, let's talk

628
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 13: about the overall net approval ratings. We're going to look

629
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 13: at the worst ever at this point in a presidency.

630
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 13: The old record among Independence for the worst ever was

631
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 13: Donald Trump back in twenty sixteen, a net approval rating

632
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 13: of minus sixteen points. While Donald Trump has broken his

633
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 13: own record here, he now holds, in this particular term,

634
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 13: the worst ever net approval rating at this point in

635
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 13: a presidency among independents. At get this, minus twenty two points,

636
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 13: he is twenty two points underwater with independence. That breaks

637
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 13: the old record that belonged to Trump. He is set

638
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 13: the new record. He is come completely underwater with the

639
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 13: center of the electric k pot.

640
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 14: And this is overall, this is on all the issues

641
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 14: now focus on specifically on the economy.

642
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 13: Yeah, let's focus in on the economy, right, what is

643
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 13: driving this overall approval rating for Donald Trump among independents

644
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 13: to go underwater. Let's take a look at the economy,

645
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 13: and let's take a look at Trump's NOTT approval rating

646
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 13: on it. And look at the trend line over just

647
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 13: the last few months. You go back to January, he

648
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 13: was slightly above water a month with independence at plus

649
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 13: one point. Look at this drop, Kate, oh my, minus

650
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 13: twenty nine points. That's a thirty point drop in under

651
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 13: three months of time. What independents are hearing from Donald Trump?

652
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 13: They hate, they hate what they're hearing from Donald Trump,

653
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 13: and they are abandoning him in record numbers.

654
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 3: And Actually, what the Chiron said behind Harry Eton there,

655
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,720
Speaker 3: who I have to imagine is hopped up on ghost

656
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 3: energy every single day. But what the Chiron said, what

657
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 3: is like Sager at the DNC, was that was the

658
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 3: worst for any president, the worst net number with independence

659
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 3: on the economy. And so that drop in three months time, Chris,

660
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 3: I can't remember seeing anything like that. Now, that's huge

661
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 3: on the economy with independence. Now, obviously it's early in

662
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 3: the midterm election cycle. God forbid we even consider that

663
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 3: we may be in the midterm election cycle.

664
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 4: But those numbers are devastating.

665
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 2: Oh, utterly devastating. And you know, the tariff policy changes

666
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 2: every day, even if tomorrow he's like just kidding, I

667
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 2: made amazing deals and the teriffts are off and we're

668
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 2: back to normal.

669
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 6: The damage is done.

670
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 3: You know.

671
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 6: It does remind me.

672
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 2: Of the drop off that Joe Biden unfortunately had during

673
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: while he was doing one of the good things in

674
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 2: his administration, which is withdrawing from Afghanistan, and the negative

675
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 2: media coverage and you know, Americans getting killed and the

676
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 2: chaos of all the Taliban taking back control. Like he

677
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 2: took a hit to his approval and he never recovered

678
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: and I do think with Trump, the honeymoon is over. Certainly,

679
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: the sense that oh, this is a businessman and he's

680
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: going to be good for me economically, et cetera, like

681
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: that is that is done, and that has always been

682
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 2: his strength. That has always been the area where he

683
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 2: has performed the best. You know, as much as we

684
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: like talked about immigrations role in the in the election,

685
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: the economy was the number one issue, inflation in particular,

686
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 2: and people were never really super psyched about the things

687
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: he was saying about tariffs, but they he also talked

688
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 2: a lot about I'm going to get prices down, and

689
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: they just sort of assumed. I think, like, yeah, you know,

690
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: it went pretty well last time, like he knows what

691
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: he's doing. We'll do some stuff on the economy that's

692
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: going to be good for me. And no, the reality

693
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 2: is that he is instituting this massive terror regime. It

694
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 2: will be if he continues with it, a huge regressive

695
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: tax on working class people. Rather than price is going down,

696
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 2: they're going to go up. That is what their you know,

697
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: consumers increasingly expect, and huge numbers are already saying that

698
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: what he's doing is making them personally financially worse off.

699
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 6: Now.

700
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: I'm actually right now in the process of drifting modelogue

701
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: probably for tomorrow. About as his approval rating falls, I

702
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: think you will see more of these sort of authoritarian

703
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 2: tactics that are being deployed with regard right now to immigration,

704
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: with regard to crushing descent on college campuses. This ties

705
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: into the Harvard conversation that we're going to have as well,

706
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 2: because that's what you know, people who have who are

707
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: authoritarians or have authoritarian tendencies, when they're back to into

708
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: a corner, they don't back down. I mean, this is

709
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 2: what we saw with Trump with January sixth. He didn't

710
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 2: just say, oh I lost, I guess you know, I

711
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 2: have to peacefully go away.

712
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 6: No, they crack down.

713
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: They go further in terms of expanding the police state

714
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 2: and crushing descent and using whatever weapons they can against

715
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: their ideological enemies too. Yeah, yeah, you know, to make

716
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 2: sure that they are able to hold their grip on

717
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 2: power even as they become less and less popular. And

718
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 2: so I think you know, that's where on the one hand,

719
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: the fact that his popularity is diminishing is going to

720
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: give him less power with regard to Republican politicians some

721
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 2: of these institutions, like the media and the universities. The

722
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 2: Democrats are starting to like get a little bit of

723
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 2: energy because they can see the way that his popularity

724
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: is waning and his plans are being rejected by the public.

725
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: But it also enters us into a sort of like

726
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: new precarious phase in terms of what his reaction to

727
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: that will ultimately be.

728
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 3: Well, and so I think the way we set up

729
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 3: this block is really helpful on this note because as

730
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 3: a sort of anti free trade orthodoxy or like dogma

731
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 3: type person, the question of short term pain was always

732
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 3: going to be part of this picture. And that's sort

733
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 3: of the way the elite set up the system is

734
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 3: that if you ever want to bring us back from

735
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 3: relying entirely for national security purposes for pharmaceutical purposes on

736
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 3: other countries that are on the other side of the world,

737
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: there is going to be short term pain. But the

738
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 3: question is how short term that pain is going to

739
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 3: be and if it ever is relieved. And so this

740
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 3: is we can put the next elpant element. I think

741
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 3: I just an elephant up on the screen element up

742
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 3: on the screen, Crystal. This is from Joe Eisenthal, who

743
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 3: was pointing out quote dismal expectations for the economy and

744
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 3: the New York FED survey of regional manufacturers. Basically every

745
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 3: line new orders, employment, et cetera. Is going down, with

746
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 3: the exception of prices received and paid, which are going up,

747
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 3: and then control them. Whenever you're ready, you can put

748
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 3: the next element up on the screen as well. This

749
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 3: is the outlook for new orders from the New York

750
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 3: Fed's regional manufacturers literally hit the lowest level in the

751
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 3: history of the survey. Another Joe Wisenthal post on x

752
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 3: that he highlighted from these New York Fed numbers, and

753
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 3: that gets to crystal whether in this push or pull

754
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 3: there's more that's going to be lost or more that's

755
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 3: going to be gained. So, even if this is a

756
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 3: long term battle, even if we accept that there may

757
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 3: be some short term pain, these numbers over the course

758
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 3: of the first week have been not great for the administration.

759
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 3: They are pointing to deals with like Nvidia and other places,

760
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 3: but it seems like the industrial policy that they want

761
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 3: to couple this with is one going to be codifying

762
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 3: a corporate tax cut, which I will say as annoying

763
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 3: as that is may help with onshoring, but it's not

764
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 3: industrial policy. And then their second part of their industrial

765
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: policies just Trump calling up these companies and talking to them.

766
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 4: So far, that's what it looks like the approach is.

767
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 3: And you can understand then where these Wisenthal number numbers

768
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 3: are coming from. And let's just get to this element

769
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 3: from NBC News. This is before United Airlines. Here's the headline,

770
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 3: gives two twenty twenty five profit outlooks, calling economy quote

771
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 3: impossible to predict.

772
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 4: So just the lead of the story.

773
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 3: United Airlines maintained it's full your forecast on Tuesday, but

774
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 3: took an unusual step of offering second forecast should the

775
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 3: US slip into a recession, calling the economy quote impossible

776
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: to predict.

777
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 4: Either way, it expects to turn a profit.

778
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 3: NBC Rights But says the carrier warned alongside its first

779
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 3: quarter earnings that a recession could drive down profits this year,

780
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 3: but said booking trends are stable, stable for now. And lastly,

781
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 3: Crystal this next element from Newsweek. This is according to

782
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 3: Chinese media. I should add, but this is from Newsweek,

783
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 3: saying that Greenland's foreign minister has set it as seeking

784
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: deeper cooperation with China and potentially a free trade agreement,

785
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 3: according to China's state news agency Shinha. So all of

786
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 3: this evidence points to a very if this is a

787
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 3: period of temporary pain, Crystal, it is going to be

788
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 3: an enormous period of temporary pain, and the signs that

789
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 3: there is more onshoring that's going to happen so far

790
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 3: to offset the people who say we are actually going

791
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 3: to bet on Tchin, or we are going to bet

792
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: outside of the United States because the United States, you know,

793
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 3: is not a safe haven for us right now. We

794
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 3: don't feel confident that we can make long term investments.

795
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense supposed to do that. These are

796
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 3: these are not great scigns for the Trump administration.

797
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well Trump himself said something like, you know, some

798
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: of these countries, we may have them pick between US

799
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: and China.

800
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 15: Yeah.

801
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's not a hard.

802
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 2: Choice if I was running in a country, like why

803
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: would you do a deal with this person? He's all

804
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: over the place, Like China is rising power. They have

805
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 2: been much more strategic in terms of securing like the

806
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: rare earth minerals that they need. Technologically, they are just

807
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 2: as advanced at least. I think that's actually being charitable

808
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 2: to the US at this point as we are, like

809
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: they have mass manufacturing capacity. What they have been you know,

810
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 2: reasonable to work with in terms of the Belton Road initiative.

811
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 6: Why what do we have going for us?

812
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 4: We just have lots of customers with a lot of

813
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 4: disposed boys to come.

814
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 6: And that's a real thing.

815
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 2: Like I mean that China has even more customers. Yeah,

816
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: just by the numbers, we are, you know, continue to

817
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: be per capita wealthier country and no doubt about that.

818
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't want to undersell it, but

819
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: you also have a human element to this too, like

820
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 2: Jade Vance going to Europe and you know, tutting them

821
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 2: about their supposedly sensoriues practices, which is legit, except then

822
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: he comes back home and they're crushing descent on college

823
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: campuses and being way more authoritarian in terms of their

824
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: like crackdown on any sort of wrong thing on Israel.

825
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: So you know, they haven't exactly endeared themselves to the world.

826
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 2: Not to mention, China is fighting a trade war against us.

827
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,439
Speaker 2: We are apparently fighting a trade war against the entire

828
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 2: freaking world. So who do you think has the better.

829
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: You know, they can think strategically just about us and

830
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 2: making alliances and trying to you know, isolate us. We're

831
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 2: rapidly isolating our and giving the rest of the world

832
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 2: a very cular choice in terms of what they you know,

833
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 2: what direction they would want to go in. And that's

834
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 2: why Greenland is sort of emblematic here. And you know,

835
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 2: just a couple two other points that I just want

836
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 2: to hone in on. I mean, first of all, even

837
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: with the tariffs in their current sort of rolled back state,

838
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 2: we have one hundred and forty five percent terraffs on China.

839
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 2: If you are a big guy, you can pay your

840
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: million dollars, you can go to mar A Lago, you

841
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 2: can get your car ount, you can be Charles Schwab

842
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 2: in the White House and happen to be you know,

843
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: perfectly timed Trump's announcements, so you can make two point

844
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: five billion dollars in a single day, something that Trump

845
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 2: bragged about. If you are your average small to medium

846
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 2: size business which had no choice but to import, usually

847
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 2: from China, you're screwed.

848
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 6: You are screwed.

849
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 2: There is no way you can survive one hundred and

850
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 2: forty five percent terraff even if you wanted to bring

851
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 2: manufacturing and build your own factory and do all these things,

852
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: you're not getting any help from the government. The tariffs

853
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 2: are they're here, Like, it's not like you have any

854
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: sort of runway to be able to figure it out

855
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: or raise capital or do any of that. We don't

856
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 2: in many instances even have the specialty skills here. So

857
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 2: you've got to, you know, go over seas to even

858
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: bring the people in who would know how to do it.

859
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 2: Like it's it is not possible, it's not possible. Instead,

860
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: you're just gonna die. Like your company, your business, your dream,

861
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: your life, it's just gonna go under. Yesterday I highlighted

862
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: this woman. She's a veteran. She founded this company called

863
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: Busy Baby. They make these little mats that you can

864
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 2: that's actually very cool product. You can put it on

865
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 2: the table at the restaurant and you can hook the

866
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 2: baby's like toys onto and so it's clean and the

867
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 2: baby can't throw the toys down on the ground, which

868
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 2: is a constant issue.

869
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 6: And this thing was taken off. She got to go

870
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:47,959
Speaker 6: on Shark Tank.

871
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 16: You know.

872
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 2: Her sales were through the roof Walmart and Target came knocking.

873
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 2: But she had to take out alone in order to

874
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: finance the expansion into Walmart, and she leveraged her house

875
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 2: in order to get cure those small business loans. And

876
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: now so not only is she at risk of losing

877
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 2: her business, she and her dream, which was succeeding and

878
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 2: which is a product that people genuinely liked, she's also

879
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 2: at risk of losing her home. I mean, these are like,

880
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: you're messing with people's lives and for what, For what?

881
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 2: The manufacturing index should tell you everything you need to

882
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: know about whether this is actually going to bring manufacturing

883
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 2: back Quite the opposite, Quite the opposite, especially if we

884
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 2: end up in recession.

885
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 3: Well, one of the problems with those small businesses as

886
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: well is that people are having a harder time getting

887
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 3: in touch with reportedly. I mean, obviously I haven't tried this,

888
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 3: but with the Small Business Administration because of cuts, and that's.

889
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 4: You know, I think, Crystal. We remember with NAFTA.

890
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 3: I was I still a lot on an interview with

891
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 3: David Obie recently from like two thousand where he was

892
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 3: talking about he was on CNN and he was talking

893
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 3: about how he supported NAFTA and wto because there were

894
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 3: promises of job training and investment in the communities that

895
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 3: would be really hard hit, And he said, you know,

896
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 3: I regret that because I never saw that stuff happen.

897
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 3: And I think that's a real lesson for the Trump

898
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 3: administration in that there will be casualties. They know that

899
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 3: there will be casualties of this adjustment period if it's

900
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 3: just an adjustment period, by the way, that's assuming it's

901
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 3: an adjustment period.

902
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 4: And what are they doing to make up for that?

903
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 3: What are they doing to help the people who set

904
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 3: up their businesses around the pre existing system because it

905
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 3: had existed for years and was the way to turn

906
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 3: a profit, was the way they were told to be

907
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 3: productive members of the American economy, small business owners. I mean,

908
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 3: this is the Republican electorate, by the way, has been

909
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,959
Speaker 3: the Republican elector for a really long time. So they

910
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 3: need to tread very very carefully. And there just aren't

911
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 3: a lot of signs that they're taking seriously the need

912
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 3: to augment. Again, this is taking their argument charitably that

913
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 3: this is an adjustment period.

914
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 4: But even then, even if we give them that the

915
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 4: size that.

916
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 3: They're augmenting this with serious off ramps for people effective

917
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 3: I just don't see much there at all.

918
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 2: No, No, I mean there's been some floating of a

919
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 2: bailout for farmers again, which you know he did in

920
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: his first administration, but that's it. And you know, I

921
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 2: think these tariffs are less about economics and more about power.

922
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 2: I think Trump likes having the companies coming on bend

923
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 2: and me I think he likes being the person who

924
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 2: has soul control over like the entire freaking global economy,

925
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: certainly the national domestic economy. I think that's really what

926
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 2: it's more about. And the last thing I'll say with

927
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 2: regard to like bringing back manufacturing, something I support for

928
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 2: a variety of reasons, both in terms of, you know,

929
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 2: they should be good union jobs. There are certain things

930
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 2: that we should produce here simply because of you know,

931
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 2: national security.

932
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 6: We all learn this during COVID.

933
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: We learned about the fragility of the supply chain and

934
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: the way that put us at rice. Like, I support

935
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: all of that, right, but when Trump is talking about

936
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 2: bringing manufacturing, when Lutnik is talking about it too, all

937
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 2: the armies of millions of people or robots screwing in

938
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 2: the little little screws. First of all, Number one, they

939
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 2: a lot of it will be robots. It won't be

940
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 2: human beings. So there's number one, you'll be like, you know,

941
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 2: you'll have some humans to like service the air conditioning

942
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 2: to keep the robots cool. That's the kind of thing

943
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: that we're talking about. But number two, to the extent

944
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 2: that you do have human beings. Trump is not talking

945
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: about bringing us back to the nineteen fifties, when we

946
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 2: were at the peak of post war manufacturing power, at

947
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 2: a time when somewhere around half of the industrial workforce

948
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 2: was unionized. He wants to take us back to nineteen hundred.

949
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 2: To William McKinley, that's what he talks about all the time.

950
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 2: Guess what that was. That was before you had progressive

951
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 2: era labor reforms. That's before you had even federal child

952
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: labor laws. That's before factory jobs were good jobs. That

953
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 2: was much more like think of you know, mord Deckenzian,

954
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 2: think of like you know, Upton Sinclair and the way

955
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 2: workers were treated in you know, in the jungle, think

956
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: of the triangle shirtwaist fire. That's the era he want

957
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 2: to bring America back to, where our workers are part

958
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 2: of the global race to the bottom. That's the era

959
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 2: that he envisions, So everyone really needs to be really clear.

960
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 2: There's nothing inherently like good, stable middle class about a

961
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,240
Speaker 2: factory job. You have to have unions and labor power

962
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,280
Speaker 2: in order to secure both the safety and the wages

963
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 2: and the working conditions to make those jobs good jobs.

964
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 2: They were in the fifties, They honestly at this point

965
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 2: they are not great, especially in the South. You know,

966
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 2: the I saw Matt Burning tweeted out that like Honda

967
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 2: workers in Alabama make less than McDonald's workers in Denmark

968
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 2: because of those labor conditions. And so no one should

969
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 2: fool themselves about the actual era that in his idealized

970
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 2: world he would be returning us to.

971
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 4: So I went and looked at this yesterday, just before

972
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 4: we move on.

973
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 3: It is interesting the bien Industrial Policy brought manufacturing jobs

974
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 3: back to red states with right to work laws overwhelmingly,

975
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 3: And if you look at the map, it's like basically

976
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 3: not just red states, but it's states like swing states

977
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 3: even that of right to work laws, including Michigan until

978
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four when that was repealed. So it's really

979
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 3: like the Trump administration wanting to be pro labor, pro

980
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 3: middle class. There's a complicated puzzle that needs to be

981
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 3: put in place. And again we're what two weeks into

982
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 3: the liberation era, but there's just the all of the

983
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 3: energy right now is to fix this tax bill and

984
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 3: to figure out this reconciliation bill, which is tax policy basically,

985
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 3: and I mean that'll probably haven't expanded child tax credit,

986
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 3: but that's about it when it comes to, you know,

987
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 3: like relief for middle class, working class families, and there

988
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 3: are just there's not a lot of policy.

989
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:55,399
Speaker 4: Momentum at all.

990
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 3: And again maybe that'll change, but there's not a ton

991
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 3: of evidence of that right now. Just ask someone on

992
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 3: the right. I just don't see a lot of energy

993
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 3: on that right now.

994
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:08,800
Speaker 4: Crystal.

995
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 3: We should play this Bill Burr clip because it's really something. Yeah,

996
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 3: here's Bill Burr on his podcast. David Sarota actually pointed

997
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 3: this clip out. We can go ahead and roll B six.

998
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 3: Bill Burr addressing the economy over the course of the

999
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 3: last couple of weeks.

1000
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 17: This whole idea that other countries stole our jobs, like

1001
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 17: our factory jobs and all that. As far as I remember, that's.

1002
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 18: Not the case.

1003
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 17: There's a little quick history from someone who doesn't read

1004
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 17: a lot in the eighteen hundreds during the what was

1005
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 17: that period called the Industrial Revolution. They had like kids

1006
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 17: working in factories like fucking twelve fourteen hour days, like

1007
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 17: four or five year old kids, in dangerous situations, and

1008
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 17: people weren't making any money and the one guy who

1009
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 17: owned the factory was keeping all the money. The working

1010
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 17: man finally has enough, they start organizing unions. The robber barons,

1011
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 17: hire police, the army, all of these people to come

1012
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 17: in and kill these people in riots, crack their skulls,

1013
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 17: do unbelievable sorts of damage to them to try and

1014
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,240
Speaker 17: force them to go back to work for sweatshop wages.

1015
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 17: These people died, were maimed, catastrophic fucking injuries so that

1016
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 17: we could have a decent wage in this country. And

1017
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 17: they had unions and all of that. So then there

1018
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 17: was like a forty to fifty year period where being

1019
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 17: a middle class person, middle class white person, was the dream.

1020
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 4: It was.

1021
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 17: Eventually, these corporations just got sick of dealing with these

1022
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 17: unions and they're hard nosed negotiating all that, and then

1023
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 17: they just said, well, fuck you, then you will here.

1024
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 17: You don't keep your union, keep your factory, we're leaving.

1025
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 17: And they took their factories out side of the US

1026
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 17: and went back to eighteen hundred wages. What the fuck

1027
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 17: you should be making those things here? And then what

1028
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 17: the corporate guy said was, well, you know, we would

1029
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 17: make sneakers here, but if to pay the American work

1030
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,320
Speaker 17: and everything, the sneakers would then instead of costing fifty bucks,

1031
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 17: they now cost seven hundred. And I was always thinking

1032
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 17: why it would cost seven on a buy? I can't

1033
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 17: afford that.

1034
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 16: And what it really was was they weren't going to

1035
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 16: lose the profit of sweatshop labor, so if they came

1036
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 16: back to America, we weren't going to work for that,

1037
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 16: so and they weren't going to take They weren't going

1038
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 16: to lose the profit of sweatshop labor, so they were

1039
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 16: going to pass it on to the consumer.

1040
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 4: You's gonna see why Bilberg's popular. Crystal.

1041
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 2: Yes, he needs to run for president. I'm not even kidding, Like,

1042
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 2: have you heard anyone else, any Democratic politician explain it

1043
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 2: as well as him?

1044
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 3: Like we were talking yesterday, and you made such a

1045
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 3: good point that I'm producer Griffin I think mentioned this

1046
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,959
Speaker 3: as well, that he just sounds like a normal guy,

1047
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 3: which is something that most like left class critics don't right.

1048
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 6: Said is he doesn't come off as soy.

1049
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,959
Speaker 3: Yes, I was going to leave that for someone else

1050
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,760
Speaker 3: to say, but what if if we're.

1051
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 4: Attributing it to producer Griffin.

1052
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 3: Yes, and I think that's actually very well said, because

1053
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 3: it's the problem. We're going to run a James Carvell

1054
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 3: clip later in the show. But I do think that

1055
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 3: James Carvell was right about that. Nina Turner has said

1056
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 3: this too. The way democrats talk because so many have

1057
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 3: been sort of funneled through academia, is really academic. It's

1058
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 3: it's quoted in a way that I don't want to

1059
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,919
Speaker 3: say feminine because it's not all feminine, but it comes

1060
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 3: across as like very like it.

1061
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 6: Doesn't always connect.

1062
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that says the thing is it just doesn't frequently

1063
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 2: does not connect. No, he's got a gift for that,

1064
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 2: and he's one hundred percent right. You know, the the

1065
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,280
Speaker 2: Trump framing is like all these countries stole are workers.

1066
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 2: No politicians here, collaborate with corporations to create this global

1067
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:04,320
Speaker 2: race to the bottom.

1068
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 6: That's what it is.

1069
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 2: And so you know, the left, people like Bernie Sanders,

1070
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,720
Speaker 2: who has been extremely consistent, extremely prescient about the impact

1071
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,879
Speaker 2: of NAFTA, the impact of PNTR. It's not that they're

1072
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 2: opposed to trade. They're opposed to trade. That creates a

1073
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 2: race to the bottom where you are just you know,

1074
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 2: where you aren't dealing with labor standards, you aren't dealing

1075
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 2: with wages, and so of course capitalists are going to

1076
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 2: search for the lowest paid labor force they can possibly

1077
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 2: find so that they can endlessly juice their profits. Like

1078
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 2: that is the system that we have. And so you know,

1079
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 2: Bill Burr I think explains it really perfectly there. In

1080
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 2: the post war period, the US in a lot of

1081
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,439
Speaker 2: ways was kind of like the only game in town.

1082
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 2: So we benefit of from this unique period of prosperity.

1083
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 2: And then once you get into the neoliberal era and

1084
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 2: they're stripping away of union rights and there there's you know,

1085
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 2: bad trade deals like NAFTA, like you know, then the

1086
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 2: opening up fully of trade to China. Once you have

1087
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 2: those deals and you create the global race to the bottom,

1088
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 2: that's you know, that's how you end up with the

1089
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 2: dynamic that we have now. And to go back to

1090
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 2: my earlier point, Trump doesn't want to reverse those trends.

1091
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 2: He just wants to get American workers back into that

1092
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 2: global race to the bottom. Right, he wants them to

1093
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 2: also or robots, right, also participate in that global race

1094
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 2: at the bottom. And we know that because you know,

1095
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 2: there's relentless attacks on unions from this administration. The Natural

1096
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 2: Labor Relations Board has been gutted as effectively without a quorum,

1097
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 2: unable to operate. That's been a lifelong project and direction

1098
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 2: for him. He's always been a union buster, we see

1099
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 2: with regard to like the labor labor standards, you know,

1100
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 2: just like basic workplace safety and stuff. Even in industries

1101
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 2: where Trump has a particular affinity, like for example, with

1102
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 2: coal miners, they are completely destroyed the health and safety

1103
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 2: measures for coal miners already an extremely dangerous job where

1104
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 2: younger and younger men are getting an incredibly virulent form

1105
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: of black lung. The dog just stripping that away, and

1106
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 2: dog just stripping the ability of the government to be

1107
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 2: able to regulate any big business so that even without

1108
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: changing the law, they can kind of sort of go

1109
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 2: back to when you could have your sweatshop and you

1110
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 2: could lock people in and you could pay them whatever

1111
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 2: wage you wanted, and you could get away with it.

1112
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 2: So when you couple the tariffs with the direction of Doge.

1113
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 2: That's the picture that you ultimately get. And then you

1114
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 2: add to that the other piece that Bill Burr talked about,

1115
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 2: which is how somehow these billionaires keep being in a

1116
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 2: position to make lots of money on these big market swings.

1117
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and take a listen to what he

1118
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 2: had to say about that.

1119
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 17: And I don't understand what that whole fucking thing was,

1120
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 17: But all I know is once again the market tanked,

1121
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:58,919
Speaker 17: and a bunch of rich people, right before they turned

1122
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 17: it back on again, went in and made a ridiculous

1123
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,959
Speaker 17: amount of money and they're all high fiving.

1124
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 4: With each other.

1125
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 17: And I don't know. This guy told me something a

1126
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 17: long time ago.

1127
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 18: He says, when you.

1128
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 17: Watch the stock market and they go like up two

1129
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 17: billion dollars was lost today, He's like, money isn't lost,

1130
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 17: Like where did it go? That's just how they frame it.

1131
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 17: It isn't lost. It changes hands. All right, that's enough

1132
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 17: of that shit.

1133
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 6: Well, and obviously go ahead him.

1134
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 3: Well, I was just going to say, I mean, I

1135
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 3: do think there are elements of the Trump administration actually,

1136
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 3: even thank Donald Trump himself, who thinks that he is

1137
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 3: somehow like the savior of the American working class and

1138
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 3: all of this, and like genuinely believes that what's happening

1139
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 3: is going in that direction. The problem is his administration

1140
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 3: is infiltrated by billionaires and now a lot of influence

1141
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 3: from Silicon Valley and out the Wall Street for example,

1142
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 3: and to one extent, you can look at what he

1143
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 3: did with the tariffs and all Street freaked out and

1144
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 3: say he just gave them the middle finger. The ten

1145
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 3: percent global tariff is still giving Wall Street the middle finger.

1146
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 4: They absolutely hate that.

1147
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 3: The huge China tariffs, they absolutely hate that. But in

1148
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,959
Speaker 3: a way it also does put them in the driver's seat.

1149
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 3: And that's the bond market is what made him. People

1150
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 3: were getting quoe yippie, is what made him walk back.

1151
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 3: And again he hasn't walked everything all the way back.

1152
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 3: We still that massive ten percent global tariff and the

1153
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 3: massive tariffs on China. Nobody in the business community wanted that.

1154
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 3: But what happens next is really critical for ver Donald

1155
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 3: Trump and for people in the administration who want to

1156
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 3: genuinely it's people on the right who say, these are

1157
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 3: our voters now, and you let's just attribute to them

1158
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 3: political motivations and say, we are going to lose these

1159
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 3: voters back to Democrats. We're talking about that later in

1160
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 3: the show. How Dems have taken their fighting the oligarchy

1161
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 3: tour to really really big audiences, increasingly big audiences. So

1162
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 3: even if they're politically motivated and they look at that,

1163
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 3: you have to then step back and say, well, why

1164
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 3: is uh Howard Lutnik behind the scenes the operator here?

1165
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 4: Why that's interesting? He seems to be the one that's

1166
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 4: making the deals. Didn't he just get off the street?

1167
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:13,919
Speaker 4: Has he been a Washington the line?

1168
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and I mean it wasn't infiltrated by billionaires.

1169
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 2: Trump is himself a billionaire and he brought a bunch

1170
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 2: of billionaires to be around him. I mean, the terror

1171
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 2: policy is clearly all him.

1172
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 4: Clearly definitely, it is absolutely all him.

1173
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and his that you know, Scott Besten is like

1174
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 2: putting his game face on and going out and defending it.

1175
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 6: And that's his job is to be a sick of fan.

1176
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 2: That's all these people's jobs, to be a sick of

1177
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,919
Speaker 2: fan and go out and defend whatever the mad king does.

1178
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 2: But there's no doubt the like Tariff, some penguins and

1179
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 2: this ridiculous formula and the whole chaos of the whole

1180
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 2: situation like that is all one Trump And where I

1181
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 2: thought you were going with the like them being in

1182
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 2: the driver's seat is they're in the driver's seat because

1183
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 2: if you are a well connected CEO oligarch, you get

1184
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 2: to be the one that's you know, the auto part EXE,

1185
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 2: like this is really a problem for us. Or you

1186
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 2: could be in Nvidia and get your examiner, or you

1187
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 2: could be iPhone. I mean think about this, like these

1188
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 2: high tech components that actually we really should have and

1189
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 2: under the Biden administration did have some concerted policy industrial

1190
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 2: policy to reshore here and manufacture here.

1191
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 6: Those are the pieces that are getting the exemptions.

1192
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, like you know this lady's busy baby Matt, American

1193
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 2: consumers just will not be allowed to buy it. She's

1194
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 2: gonna look for markets all around the world to sell

1195
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 2: her product because not only could she not make it here,

1196
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 2: she won't be able to sell it here because of

1197
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty five percent tariff yep, so people.

1198
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 15: You know.

1199
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then on the insider trading piece, like not

1200
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 2: only did you have the Charles Schwab and some other

1201
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 2: billionaires there the day that Trump sends the market soaring

1202
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 2: with a single tweet and he brags about Charles Schwab

1203
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 2: making two point five billion dollars on the day. Real

1204
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 2: main Street, you know main Street over Wall Street, guys right.

1205
01:02:57,880 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 4: Posts good time to buy.

1206
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 3: I guess who can make the argument that that's actually

1207
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 3: very egalitarian.

1208
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 4: But yeah, what a day that was.

1209
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 2: And then and then you know, we'll look at Marjorie

1210
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 2: Taylor Green bought a bunch of stock on the day,

1211
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 2: and you just like, okay, when you and this is

1212
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 2: the problem with having one person in sole control of

1213
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 2: this massive economic web, nuclear weapon, you single handedly can

1214
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 2: move the market up and down in huge ways. And

1215
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 2: so then it's okay, well, who knew you were going

1216
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 2: to do that instead to profit? And we know that

1217
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 2: this administration, you know, Trump's got his hitcoin and whatever

1218
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 2: and his development properties all around the world, like they

1219
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 2: are extraordinarily corrupt, nakedly corrupt. So I would be shocked

1220
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 2: if people weren't out there trading and making billions based

1221
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 2: on these like monarchical announcements that are coming down on

1222
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 2: high on a day to day basis. Now some people

1223
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 2: are theorizing that's the whole point of the policy. I'm

1224
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 2: not there, and I think the whole point of the

1225
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 2: policy is more about Trump's power, which I guess is

1226
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 2: like sort of related to that. But I would be

1227
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 2: shocked if there weren't insiders who were trading based on

1228
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: knowing like ten minutes ahead of time, an hour ahead

1229
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 2: of time, what was coming down, because you know, that's

1230
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 2: them of this administration, that's what they do well.

1231
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 3: And Trump gave everyone cover with his good time to

1232
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 3: buy post on true Social because it'll be and they

1233
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 3: knew that. I mean, if you're somebody who's really in

1234
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 3: the trading on this, like, it'll be impossible, impossible to

1235
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 3: prove that this was motivated by inside knowledge because it'll

1236
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 3: be impossible to disentangle. Well, here's this vague true Social

1237
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 3: post from the president. I just had the sense that

1238
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 3: when he posted that it really was a good time

1239
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 3: to buy, or it really was there got a bunch.

1240
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 2: There were a bunch of purchases though, betting on the

1241
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 2: markets to go up before like ten minutes before that

1242
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 2: post even dropped.

1243
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 6: But you're right, I mean, are they going to be

1244
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 6: able to track it back?

1245
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 2: Also, we're relying on Trump's sec to track this out, like,

1246
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 2: come on, they're going to get away with whatever they

1247
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 2: want to get away with, but everyone should be clear

1248
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 2: about while you know, small business owners are getting screwed

1249
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 2: and consumers are worried are having to dye potatoes because

1250
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 2: eggs are too expensive, and they're worried about prices, et cetera.

1251
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 2: While all of that is going on, Charles Schwab's making

1252
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 2: two point five billion dollars somehow, somehow, and he just

1253
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 2: happens to be at the White House one day.

1254
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 3: Well, and all the spokespeople for this policy and the administration,

1255
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 3: and this is for all of the dunking on Peter Navarro,

1256
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 3: who is genuinely an odd man. There are other spokespeople

1257
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 3: are billionaires, are multi multimillionaires, and increasingly when I mean

1258
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 3: Trump is one thing, he's obviously like a singular figure.

1259
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:36,919
Speaker 3: He can, you know, wear a multi thousand dollar suit

1260
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 3: and give helicopterids to kids at the Iowa State Fair

1261
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 3: and people will still connect with him more than any

1262
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 3: other Republican politician, even if they roll up their sleeves.

1263
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 3: But these other guys don't have that. It just doesn't

1264
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 3: hit the same way. And that if you're messaging this

1265
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 3: trade war. As you know Wall Street veterans who are

1266
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 3: worth multimillions yourself, it's going to start to wear really thin.

1267
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 3: The public's patients for that is going to start to

1268
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 3: wear very thin already.

1269
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 6: Has I would say yes.

1270
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 3: As the Harryenton polling numbers showed to bring this block

1271
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 3: full circle. Crystal, Let's move on to Iran so we

1272
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 3: can put D I'm sorry, we can put C one

1273
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 3: up on the screen. This is a tear sheet from Axios.

1274
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 3: This is a Barack Revied story. The headliner is Trump

1275
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 3: holds situation room meeting on Iran nuclear deal negotiations. Trump

1276
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 3: reportedly held a meeting yesterday morning in the Situation Room

1277
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 3: about the ongoing nuclear deal negotiations with Iran. The high

1278
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 3: level meeting with all of the Trump Admin's top nat

1279
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 3: SC and foreign policy officials was focused on discussing the

1280
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 3: US position in the next round of talks planned for Saturday,

1281
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 3: according to those sources.

1282
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 4: Now those talks are.

1283
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 3: Being led by special envoids the Moddle East Steve Whitcoff,

1284
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 3: who is somebody that Donald Trump trusts very very much.

1285
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 3: According to this Axios report quote JD. Vans and Steve

1286
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 3: Whitcoff think diplomacy could lead to a newnuclear deal and

1287
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 3: think the US should be ready to make some compromises

1288
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 3: in order to get it. Other senior members of the administration,

1289
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 3: including Rubio and Mike Waltz, are highly skeptical and support

1290
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 3: a maximalist approach to the negotiations Crystal. Interestingly enough, we've

1291
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 3: started to see the argument, actually, Eli Lakemande this argument

1292
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 3: in the Free Press yesterday that what is emerging from

1293
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 3: the Witcough camp looks a hell of a lot like

1294
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 3: the Iran nuclear deal negotiated by the Obama administration that

1295
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 3: Donald Trump sort of famously scrapped. And I've started to

1296
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 3: see arguments from iron Hawks that are appealing to Donald

1297
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 3: Trump on this basis, saying, do you want to look

1298
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 3: like you are Obama, that you are just copying Barack

1299
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 3: Obama a couple of years later and trying to kind

1300
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 3: of goat him out of the deal that Witcof seems

1301
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 3: to be intent on getting. Witcoff himself walked back his

1302
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 3: comments about nuclear enrichment, saying at one point that Iran

1303
01:07:57,680 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 3: could do minimal levels, that they would be limited to

1304
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 3: certain levels of nuclear enrichment, and then within I think

1305
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 3: it was like twenty four to forty eight hours saying

1306
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 3: no nuclear enrichment. So there are enormous pressures on the

1307
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 3: administration right now, and that's where I think it's worth

1308
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 3: mentioning C two.

1309
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 4: Just very quickly.

1310
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:16,919
Speaker 3: A couple of top advisors to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth

1311
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 3: we're put on administrative lead administrative leave yesterday, including Dan Caldwell,

1312
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:26,759
Speaker 3: who was basically hegsas probably still is hegsa's top advisor.

1313
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 3: He was put on an admin leave yesterday and escorted

1314
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:34,640
Speaker 3: from the Pentagon following a quote leak investigation to include polygraphs,

1315
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 3: according to Jennifer Griffin, that was launched by hegsa's chief

1316
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 3: of Staff, Joe Casper on March twenty one. After March

1317
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 3: twenty New York Times story detail plans to allow Elon

1318
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 3: Musk to attend a briefing in the Quote Tank with

1319
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 3: members of the Joint Chiefs to hear about future.

1320
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 4: China war plans.

1321
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 3: Caldwell, Crystal is a guy who comes from skeptical sort

1322
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 3: of coke world that has always been very critical of

1323
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 3: the foreign policy Blob, meaning he has always been critical

1324
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 3: of hawkish, neo conservative approaches to Iran policy. And another

1325
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 3: top advisor to heg Seth seemed to suffer a similar fate.

1326
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 3: According to Jennifer Griffin and other reporters yesterday, Caldwell is

1327
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 3: familiar to a lot of people who cover this stuff,

1328
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 3: but which is why that example stands out. But I

1329
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 3: have a really hard time separating these two developments, Crystal.

1330
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 3: It seems like this pressures is coming from a place

1331
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 3: of uh, it's coming from a frantic place.

1332
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't doubt it. I don't doubt it at all.

1333
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 2: I mean, Caldwell, I've never read him personally, you know,

1334
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 2: my understanding of his ideology is that he was one

1335
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 2: of the better and more consistent voices within the entire

1336
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 2: Trump administration. And so you can't look at it as

1337
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 2: an accident that this guy.

1338
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 6: All these people are leaking.

1339
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 2: They're all leaking, but this is the one that you're

1340
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:54,679
Speaker 2: going to point out, Oh, we can't have this guy around,

1341
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 2: come on, right, I mean, if it feels very targeted.

1342
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about the other dude that you

1343
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 2: know also got caught up in this, or what his

1344
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 2: ideological inclinations are. But especially as these Iran negotiations are

1345
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 2: heating up.

1346
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,839
Speaker 6: In a way, that could be encouraging.

1347
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 2: I mean the fact that there's direct negotiations going on,

1348
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 2: the fact that you have someone who's as pragmatic as

1349
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 2: wit Cough has seemed to be, who also, by the way,

1350
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 2: has come under fire significantly from some of these same types.

1351
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 2: It's pretty clear there's a massive, like internal battle being

1352
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:32,799
Speaker 2: waged here. And just to return to the Iranian nuclear

1353
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 2: deal piece, I mean the Hawks who are trying to

1354
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 2: sink it by saying like, oh, you're what, You're just

1355
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 2: renegotiating Obama's Obamas Deale, I mean, they're not really wrong.

1356
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 2: I do think that the Trump administration is kind of

1357
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 2: realizing that the JCPOA it actually was a good deal.

1358
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 2: Iran was actually complying, and they're not going to be

1359
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,680
Speaker 2: able to get something that's a lot better than that.

1360
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 2: Because when Beebe came to town, whole plan was to

1361
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 2: convince Trump like, oh, you need to push the Libya

1362
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 2: model on Iran, which, of course no country in the

1363
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 2: world is going to go for the Libya model. After

1364
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 2: watching what happened to the Libyan leader momark Adavi, who

1365
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 2: was murdered on camera after following the quote unquote Libyum

1366
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:22,639
Speaker 2: out something that Trump has talked about before, by the way,

1367
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 2: when he was trashing John Bolton and saying that he

1368
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 2: was pushing the Libya model for North Korea, so he

1369
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,640
Speaker 2: knew at least at one point that that direction was

1370
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 2: a complete non starter. Iran is not going to agree

1371
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 2: to the quote unquote Libya model. But that's what bb

1372
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 2: netnah who was pushing specifically to try to blow up

1373
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 2: these negotiations. Now we're a long way from being there.

1374
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 2: As you're pointing out, there are a lot of very

1375
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 2: sticky issues. There are a lot of internal tensions. There

1376
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 2: are the Miriam Addison's of the world, who contributed a

1377
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 2: whole lot of money to the Trump campaign to try

1378
01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 2: to make sure that something like this never happens. Bb

1379
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:02,800
Speaker 2: Netanyahoo frequently gets his way with this administration in every

1380
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 2: other American administration in history. So a lot of big

1381
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 2: question marks, but at least there's a little bit of hope,

1382
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 2: and it will be a ridiculous outcome if Trump blew

1383
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 2: up the Obama deal, one of in my opinion, one

1384
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:21,719
Speaker 2: of the best accomplishments of the Obama administration. Actually, Biden

1385
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 2: had a chance to get back in never did. That's

1386
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 2: on him. You know, he should have right away as

1387
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 2: soon as he was elected gotten back into that deal.

1388
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 2: He never did, so that's his failure as well. And

1389
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,759
Speaker 2: then it would be ironic if Trump basically but good,

1390
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 2: do it, Please, please do it. If Trump ultimately gets

1391
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 2: back into the something very similar to the original Obama

1392
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,559
Speaker 2: JCPOA deal, I have no doubt he can message it

1393
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:48,719
Speaker 2: as like this is totally different and this is way

1394
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 2: better in art of the deal or whatever. Fine, whatever

1395
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 2: your ego needs, go ahead and do it well.

1396
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 3: And there may be some argument there that the sort

1397
01:12:56,360 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 3: of regimes, the regime's credibility with its own people, that

1398
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 3: maybe make an argument that the economy is really weak

1399
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 3: and that it's weakened it's the regimes hold over its

1400
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 3: own people, and so maybe it makes more sense now.

1401
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 3: But that's actually the argument that some hawks are using

1402
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 3: the other way around, saying iron is especially vulnerable right now.

1403
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 3: But obviously, I mean, I just there's so much history

1404
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 3: in the opposite direction saying that when countries are vulnerable and.

1405
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:23,839
Speaker 4: Desperate, that's actually really not the time.

1406
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 3: To try to turn the screws on them when they

1407
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 3: are unpredictable and eccentric. So let's put speaking of those

1408
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 3: pressures C four on the screen. This is John Bolton's take.

1409
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:37,679
Speaker 3: I mean, this Bolton post about Witcough is just gross.

1410
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 3: He says Trump black strategy and vision with regard to Iran.

1411
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 3: While we do not know what Trump has the result

1412
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 3: to do, we do know special Ambi Witcough, Special Envoy

1413
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 3: Witcough is busy building trust with the Ayatolas. But the

1414
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 3: ia Tolas aren't to be trusted. They have played us

1415
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 3: for over a decade. Accusing wit Cough of trying to

1416
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:01,000
Speaker 3: just build trust with the Iyatola is foolish, like he's

1417
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 3: some type of idiot. Well, if you're going to make

1418
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:07,519
Speaker 3: any type of deal ever, ever, it is built on trust,

1419
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 3: and that has to be the like predicate for any

1420
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 3: type of negotiation. You can trust and verify, to paraphrase

1421
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 3: Ronald Reagan John Bolton. But the idea that you can

1422
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 3: just make a deal with people who don't believe any

1423
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 3: part of the deal is going to be worth the

1424
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 3: paper it's printed on is I don't even know where

1425
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 3: to begin with this.

1426
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:29,679
Speaker 4: Christ.

1427
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:31,679
Speaker 6: I mean, like just Bolton wants a war.

1428
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 2: He doesn't want there to be a deal because I mean, obviously,

1429
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 2: like obviously I do think it's a very negative sign

1430
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 2: that people like Caldwell are being purged right now in

1431
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 2: terms of who's winning those internal battles. I think that's

1432
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:45,519
Speaker 2: a pretty ominous sign.

1433
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:48,360
Speaker 3: And did you know that Jennifer Griffin tweet that this

1434
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 3: was an investigation that came out of March twentieth and

1435
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 3: March twenty first. I mean, it's the timing, I think

1436
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:56,719
Speaker 3: is quite why are you hearing about this now?

1437
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,439
Speaker 2: And you know, if he was the one that leaked that,

1438
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:01,719
Speaker 2: like Elon was going to get briefed on our China

1439
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:04,639
Speaker 2: war plans or whatever like that was a genuine public service.

1440
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:06,360
Speaker 2: So thank you, sir if you were in fact the

1441
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 2: one that that leaked that piece of information, because that

1442
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:12,639
Speaker 2: was a crazy, crazy situation and one of many crazy

1443
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 2: situations that's just like, you know, we almost forget that

1444
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 2: it even happened. But but yeah, I think it's ominous

1445
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 2: that whatever forces are trying to purge the more you know,

1446
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 2: frankly America First factions within the Pentagon. I think that

1447
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 2: is troubling. And I think Trump's increasingly perilous political situation

1448
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 2: could be read into different ways. One is he's long

1449
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 2: thought and said publicly you know that he thinks, like

1450
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 2: he thought Obama was going to start a war with

1451
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 2: Iran because it would be good for his reelection prospects.

1452
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 6: For example.

1453
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:49,719
Speaker 2: So he might have this I think totally idiotic mindset

1454
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:54,720
Speaker 2: that a war is good for politicians approval ratings. He

1455
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:58,240
Speaker 2: also may just like, look, he loves using war powers, right,

1456
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 2: He's that's his tear justification is like some national emergency.

1457
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 2: His Alien Enemies Act is martial law. He's exploring whether

1458
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 2: to invoke the Insurrection Act. Obviously, that's also like, you know,

1459
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 2: sort of wartime or rebellion powers. And so he may

1460
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 2: also like just the power that comes with being in

1461
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 2: charge during a war and what that could, how that

1462
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,680
Speaker 2: can inorder to his benefit, or perhaps he is intelligent

1463
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 2: enough to realize that if he thinks he's got political problems,

1464
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 2: now good luck. If you start a war with you

1465
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 2: know that almost no one in the entire country, including

1466
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:38,599
Speaker 2: your own base, wants to actually see the American involved.

1467
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:40,600
Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean that, you know, his base, the

1468
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 2: hardest core they'll go along with wherever he goes. But

1469
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 2: the American public overall is not down for this whatsoever.

1470
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 2: They will be absolutely, they will absolutely reject some sort

1471
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 2: of hot war and escalation with Iran.

1472
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:58,839
Speaker 3: So before we run on this block, Crystal, some interesting

1473
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 3: news just hit my end box, which is you know,

1474
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,639
Speaker 3: so we mentioned earlier Steve Witcoff is negotiating in Rome

1475
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:09,719
Speaker 3: over the weekend with the Iranian counterparts. Actually, we have

1476
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:12,360
Speaker 3: a press release from the White House that I just

1477
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:14,679
Speaker 3: got that says Vice President jad Vance in the Second

1478
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 3: Family will travel to Italy in India from April eighteenth

1479
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 3: to April twenty fourth, depending on the timing there, it

1480
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 3: looks like Vance will be in Italy during these negotiations

1481
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 3: in Rome that wit Coough is taking part of and Vance,

1482
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 3: according the Barack reviewed report, and just what we know

1483
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 3: of Jade, Vance is clearly aligned with Witcoff on this question.

1484
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 4: Some of the dynamics from that signal chat.

1485
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:42,120
Speaker 3: May be pulled into these discussions about Iran going forward. Actually,

1486
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 3: and that's quite interesting if Vance is sort of dispatching

1487
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 3: himself or maybe he's being dispatched by the White House

1488
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:53,479
Speaker 3: to go in and be a wingman for wit Cough

1489
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:55,520
Speaker 3: during these discussions.

1490
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, all right, a lot of dynamics to keep

1491
01:17:58,880 --> 01:17:59,559
Speaker 2: an eye on there.

1492
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 3: Well, the Trump administration is escalating its war on Ivy

1493
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 3: League institutions, in particular, let's put d one up on

1494
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:14,440
Speaker 3: the screen. Harvard is now under fire because the Trump administration,

1495
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 3: as everyone likely remembers, just from the last couple of days,

1496
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 3: has sent a letter threatening at least two million dollars

1497
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 3: worth of billion sorry billion, yes, two billion dollars worth

1498
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 3: of funding that could go up to as much as

1499
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:31,559
Speaker 3: nine billion dollars worth of again federal funding to Harvard

1500
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 3: than what you see on the screen if you're watching

1501
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,519
Speaker 3: this is MIT put out a letter. This is from

1502
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:38,360
Speaker 3: Sally kornb Both to the President, who said, I write

1503
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:40,800
Speaker 3: to bring you up to date on developments in two

1504
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 3: areas where recent government actions are interfering with the normal

1505
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:46,560
Speaker 3: functioning of miit diminishing our ability both to serve the

1506
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 3: nation and to attract the world's finest talent. One relates

1507
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:53,559
Speaker 3: to federal funding, the other to our international community. They

1508
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 3: say we are responding to certain federal actions by going

1509
01:18:56,360 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 3: to court. Now, this is all on the heels of

1510
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 3: what the Trump administration did with Columbia University, and they're

1511
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 3: competing reports on Columbia University's willingness to actually comply with

1512
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 3: this list of demands. That the Trump administration has sent

1513
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 3: and said. We'll get into that in the moment, by

1514
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 3: the way, but what those demands are in particular, but

1515
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 3: has said your federal.

1516
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 4: Funding depends on X, Y and Z being done.

1517
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,839
Speaker 3: Columbia, there was a leak that said Colombia was assuring

1518
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:26,479
Speaker 3: people privately that it wasn't actually going to comply with

1519
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:30,679
Speaker 3: the administration's demands. Now it looks like Columbia's standing by

1520
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:33,839
Speaker 3: it's a statement that it will comply with the demands

1521
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:37,679
Speaker 3: to keep the funeral funding. But Harvard is pushing back

1522
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 3: hard like we haven't seen other universities do.

1523
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 4: But it seems like it's.

1524
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 3: Actually creating a template for other universities to follow. And Cristal,

1525
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 3: let's just get into this back and forth that Carolyne

1526
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 3: Levitt had with Peter Doocey. Wasn't really much from back

1527
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 3: and forth, but this is what we heard from the

1528
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:55,799
Speaker 3: White House yesterday.

1529
01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 14: Follow up on something that you just said, Why do

1530
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 14: Ivy League schools get so much federal footage?

1531
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:03,720
Speaker 10: It's a very good question, and it's a question the

1532
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 10: President has obviously raised in his discussions and negotiations with

1533
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 10: not just Harvard but also Columbia.

1534
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 11: And many other Ivy League institutions.

1535
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:15,639
Speaker 10: We have the Anti Semitism Task Force, which the President

1536
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:20,719
Speaker 10: promised and delivered on. The anti Semitism task forces across

1537
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:23,560
Speaker 10: the government representatives from various federal.

1538
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 11: Agencies who meet on a weekly basis to discuss the

1539
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:27,479
Speaker 11: question that you just raise.

1540
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 10: And I think a lot of Americans are wondering why

1541
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 10: their talk dollars are going to these universities when they

1542
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:35,479
Speaker 10: are not only indoctrinating our nation students, but also allowing

1543
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 10: such a egregious illegal behavior to occur.

1544
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 3: And here's a post from Donald Trump on True Social

1545
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 3: yesterday he weighed once again and perhaps Harvard shall lose

1546
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 3: its tax exempt status to be taxed as a political

1547
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:49,599
Speaker 3: entity if it keeps pushing political, ideological and terrorist inspired

1548
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 3: slash supporting quote sickness. Remember, tax exempt status is totally

1549
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 3: contingent on acting in the public interest, Christal. That is

1550
01:20:57,439 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 3: separate from the federal funding question. A similar question, but

1551
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 3: it's obviously a different question federal funding. What is being said,

1552
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:08,240
Speaker 3: and maybe it's worth actually just bringing up D six

1553
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:10,240
Speaker 3: at this point. Sorry to skip ahead, control room, but

1554
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:13,920
Speaker 3: this is an argument that has been made for generations

1555
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:16,839
Speaker 3: in the Conservative movement that if you are getting federal funding,

1556
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 3: it is tied to complying with civil rights legislation. And

1557
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:25,160
Speaker 3: this has actually been something that conservatives have pushed back

1558
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:29,800
Speaker 3: on forever, and it was Rufo who really popularized the

1559
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:31,720
Speaker 3: idea a couple of years ago, a few years ago

1560
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:36,439
Speaker 3: now that if Republicans regain power in the White House

1561
01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 3: and the dj etc. In the Department of Education, they

1562
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 3: should use that power to turn the screws on these

1563
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:47,600
Speaker 3: Ivy League administrations that have benefited from this sort of

1564
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 3: relationship with the federal government, back and forth relationship with

1565
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:54,520
Speaker 3: the federal government, to punish.

1566
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 4: Those universities for not.

1567
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:02,560
Speaker 3: You know, being as opened conservative ideas as people in

1568
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 3: the right want to be. And it is true, I mean,

1569
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:07,120
Speaker 3: like Harvard is wildly like the faculty of Harvard is,

1570
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 3: it's not a balanced faculty at all. Like I think

1571
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 3: we all know that these institutions lean left. So the

1572
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 3: plan was then to use the Civil Rights regime like

1573
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:18,519
Speaker 3: Title nine is a good example. Conservatives used to be

1574
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 3: against Title nine because it forced compliance with the federal

1575
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,559
Speaker 3: government in the schools in ways that would sometimes you know,

1576
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:29,960
Speaker 3: disproportionately hurt men's sports. And we could donate a debate

1577
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 3: whether or not that was righteous and just, but conservatives

1578
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:33,840
Speaker 3: used to be against it because it was using federal

1579
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:38,280
Speaker 3: funding as a carrot in particular ways.

1580
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:40,519
Speaker 4: So that bringsists a D four.

1581
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 3: What is the Trump administration threatening Harvard over? Well, some

1582
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:48,200
Speaker 3: of it is civil rights, but Michael Tracy points out

1583
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:51,080
Speaker 3: that one of the bullet points, among the many bullet points,

1584
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:53,640
Speaker 3: and the Trump administration's letter to Harvard that kicked all

1585
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:58,040
Speaker 3: of this out off, is titled reforming programs with egregious

1586
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 3: records of Anti Semitism or other bias. Chris le, I'm

1587
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:04,719
Speaker 3: going to kick it to you on that point.

1588
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, I don't want to hear from

1589
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 2: Christopher Rufo or any of these people again about supposed

1590
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 2: like woke wokeness. This is the most woke authoritarian shit

1591
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 2: you could possibly imagine, including effectively. What they want from

1592
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 2: Harvard is some sort of like mega affirmative action program,

1593
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:27,559
Speaker 2: both in terms of the students coming domestically and abroad

1594
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 2: and in terms of the professors they also. I mean,

1595
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 2: there's just all kinds of ridiculous demands here, and the

1596
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:39,639
Speaker 2: demand that you get rid of DEI does not sit

1597
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 2: easily with the demand that you also do everything to

1598
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 2: combat anti Semitism. Like the whole thing is just the

1599
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 2: specifics of it are almost less important than the fact

1600
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 2: that this is about the Trump administration, just as they

1601
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:57,240
Speaker 2: have with media, just as they have with lawyers, just

1602
01:23:57,280 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 2: they have with the courts, trying to bring to heal

1603
01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:03,960
Speaker 2: in institutions that they see as ideological adversaries and potential

1604
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:09,400
Speaker 2: alternative power centers. It is also a very classic authoritarian playbook,

1605
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:12,839
Speaker 2: right They want to be able to have to ultimately

1606
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:16,120
Speaker 2: control what is taught, who teaches it, and what students

1607
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,720
Speaker 2: get into the school. Now to zoom out, because the

1608
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:24,439
Speaker 2: Columbia thing is I think important. Harvard was seemingly planning

1609
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:27,559
Speaker 2: to kind of comply. They got an initial list of

1610
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,479
Speaker 2: demands from the Trump administration, things like banning masks, that

1611
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 2: they were like, yeah, I can probably live with that.

1612
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:36,800
Speaker 2: Then they got a more elaborate list from the Trump administration,

1613
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 2: you know, the one that Michael Tracy is referencing there,

1614
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:46,639
Speaker 2: and they saw that when Columbia tried to comply with

1615
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 2: what the Trump administration wanted, It's not like the Trump

1616
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 2: people like, Okay, you're good to go, thank you.

1617
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:55,360
Speaker 6: We've art of the dealed it. We're good to you.

1618
01:24:55,320 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 2: Know, all no harm, no foul, no Colombia's capitulate only

1619
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:04,439
Speaker 2: led to more and more demands. Now the federal government

1620
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:08,120
Speaker 2: is seeking a consent decree with Columbia that would give

1621
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:12,800
Speaker 2: them direct power over, you know, over that university and

1622
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:17,800
Speaker 2: specifically have taken into like have taken over the Middle

1623
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:19,080
Speaker 2: Eastern Studies department.

1624
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 6: Harvard is extremely wealthy.

1625
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 2: I think it is one of, if not the wealthiest

1626
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 2: school in the country in terms of it has like

1627
01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:28,760
Speaker 2: a fifty billion dollar endowment. If anyone was going to

1628
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:31,120
Speaker 2: stand up and fight, it was Harvard. And so I

1629
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:34,600
Speaker 2: think watching the way that things went down with Columbia,

1630
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:38,439
Speaker 2: they realized that there was no choice but to stand

1631
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 2: up for themselves. And the fact that MIT then rapidly

1632
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:45,400
Speaker 2: follows in their footsteps, I think it's an indication that

1633
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:49,400
Speaker 2: you will see more of a united front from the

1634
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 2: university system in trying to stand up to what are

1635
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 2: you know, ultimately like insane and like peak woke kind

1636
01:25:57,320 --> 01:26:02,000
Speaker 2: of authoritarian demands coming from the Trump administration. So, you know,

1637
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:04,360
Speaker 2: I think those are kind of the dynamics that are

1638
01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:07,600
Speaker 2: playing out here, is that they realized they were not

1639
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 2: going to make them go away by attempting to comply

1640
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:13,680
Speaker 2: with the things that they ultimately wanted. And you know,

1641
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:15,639
Speaker 2: last thing on this question of like, oh well, why

1642
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:17,760
Speaker 2: do they even get federal funding? Right, A lot of

1643
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 2: this is like research grants. You know, Harvard does a

1644
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 2: lot of medical research. They run a bunch of hospitals,

1645
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:25,880
Speaker 2: a lot of the larger nine billion dollars that would

1646
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:28,719
Speaker 2: be threatened, that's like funding that goes to a number

1647
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 2: of these hospitals. I know there were some researchers who

1648
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:34,920
Speaker 2: already were I think one that was researching tuberculosis, if

1649
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 2: memory serves correctly, like their grants are already being pulled.

1650
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 2: So that's the sort of thing that a lot of

1651
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 2: this money is ultimately going towards. In case people were wondering,

1652
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:45,600
Speaker 2: it won't be easy for Harvard to make up the

1653
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:49,599
Speaker 2: multi billion dollar gap because their endowment comes with certain

1654
01:26:49,640 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 2: restrictions about how the money can be spent, et cetera,

1655
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:55,640
Speaker 2: et cetera. But I think they feel like they have

1656
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 2: the firepower to be able to fight this, and that frankly,

1657
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:00,000
Speaker 2: they really don't have much of a choice.

1658
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:03,200
Speaker 3: I mean, some schools take the funding and put in

1659
01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 3: lazy rivers, which is genuinely a serious problem. They take

1660
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:09,720
Speaker 3: the research funding and then they have these big endowments,

1661
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 3: and they keep using tuition jacking tuition up for stupid

1662
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 3: stuff that gets them up on the US News and

1663
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 3: World Report list and attracts more students or doesn't attract

1664
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:21,640
Speaker 3: more students. But I think the Trump administration's definition of

1665
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 3: anti Semitism is obviously woke, and it is obviously undermining

1666
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 3: what listen as a conservative I think is a very

1667
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:33,960
Speaker 3: righteous cause, which is to scare the living daylights out

1668
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:36,559
Speaker 3: of these universities that have done, I think, a very

1669
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 3: poor job preparing people to enter our society after four

1670
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:46,080
Speaker 3: years of education at supposedly the best institutions in the world.

1671
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 3: Ruvo is right like he's run down these examples of

1672
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:53,360
Speaker 3: where Harvard in particular has engaged in actual discrimination by

1673
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:57,599
Speaker 3: the definition in our civil rights legislation and in our

1674
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:01,799
Speaker 3: court system. And that is something that again was used

1675
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:05,880
Speaker 3: repeatedly during the Title nine battles of roughly the last

1676
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:08,000
Speaker 3: ten years the Obama administration. We don't have to get

1677
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:09,640
Speaker 3: into all of this, but this has been going on

1678
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 3: for generations. Used federal funding as a way to get sports,

1679
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:19,080
Speaker 3: to change their policies about men's and women's schools, to

1680
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 3: change their policies about men's of women's athletics and locker

1681
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 3: rooms and bathrooms and all of that, which I think

1682
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:28,160
Speaker 3: brought conservatives to their sort of boiling point.

1683
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:29,559
Speaker 4: And that's where you saw this.

1684
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:33,720
Speaker 3: New momentum come from to actually do these things. I

1685
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:36,400
Speaker 3: think that's you know, Rufo has pointed out a lot

1686
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:40,160
Speaker 3: of DEI coming from all of this, and DEI can

1687
01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 3: be used in a way that is not in compliance

1688
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 3: with federal discrimination laws. So again, like schools like Hillsdale

1689
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:52,360
Speaker 3: have had to operate without federal funding forever so that

1690
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 3: they didn't get the ideological coercion, I always think that

1691
01:28:55,800 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 3: that's the best model, even if it's sad that we

1692
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:01,800
Speaker 3: can't fund public universe in a way that's ideological. I

1693
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:06,679
Speaker 3: mean maybe we can't, but ideologically beneficial to everyone. But anyway,

1694
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:08,880
Speaker 3: all of this is to say, the woke definition of

1695
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:13,479
Speaker 3: anti Semitism is like undermining I think a pretty legitimate

1696
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 3: conservative policy argument here, because you end up scooping people

1697
01:29:18,360 --> 01:29:21,400
Speaker 3: like os Turk off the streets of suburban Boston and

1698
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:24,559
Speaker 3: then claiming the moral high ground on free speech. It

1699
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 3: is just completely stupid on by the way, a generational

1700
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:33,320
Speaker 3: opportunity to flip the script on the left and actually

1701
01:29:33,360 --> 01:29:36,680
Speaker 3: like get some genuine concessions out of schools. I'm not

1702
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:39,960
Speaker 3: talking about like quotas and affirmative action for conservatives, but

1703
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:42,439
Speaker 3: just like scaring the living daylights out of them to

1704
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:45,120
Speaker 3: like just using the money that they have in a

1705
01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:48,000
Speaker 3: way that is actually beneficial to the public.

1706
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:49,040
Speaker 4: That's all great.

1707
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:51,920
Speaker 3: I think that's fantastic, but this is completely You do

1708
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 3: not have the moral high ground when you're scooping kids

1709
01:29:54,160 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 3: off the street for op eds and it's just stupid.

1710
01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:57,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1711
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,240
Speaker 2: Well, and I mean a lot of the like the

1712
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:03,840
Speaker 2: lazy river and the fancy dorms and athletic facilities or whatever.

1713
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 2: I mean, we know what that's about. That's about attracting

1714
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:09,439
Speaker 2: rich students. It's that's what it's about. It's a market

1715
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:13,680
Speaker 2: capital kind of a situation where yeah, who can not

1716
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:15,720
Speaker 2: only pay filled tuition, but are then going to be

1717
01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 2: in a position them and mommy and daddy to help

1718
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:21,200
Speaker 2: to continue to fund the endowment. The direction I would

1719
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:24,479
Speaker 2: go in is, you know, public funding for colleges and

1720
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:27,760
Speaker 2: making tuition for or at least much more accessible but

1721
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 2: you know, certainly the cost of education is a big issue.

1722
01:30:31,280 --> 01:30:33,799
Speaker 2: This has nothing to do with the cost of education.

1723
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:37,160
Speaker 2: And even on the DEI piece, like you know, this

1724
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:40,920
Speaker 2: is specifically about these these Ivy League universities, although there's

1725
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 2: some I think the number is sixty universities across the

1726
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:47,519
Speaker 2: country that have gotten similar letters. They're not all you know,

1727
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:49,920
Speaker 2: Ivy League. I know the school I went to, University

1728
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 2: of Virginia, was one of the people who got these

1729
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:54,640
Speaker 2: letters of like you know, threatening them. Basically you have

1730
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 2: to do X and Y and Z in order to

1731
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:59,160
Speaker 2: continue to receive your federal funds. So it's not just

1732
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 2: the elite, but they like picking the fight with the

1733
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,479
Speaker 2: elites very publicly because they feel like they're on solid

1734
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:07,160
Speaker 2: more solid ground there in terms of their kind of

1735
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:13,519
Speaker 2: ideological framing. But you know, these broader executive orders about

1736
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:17,559
Speaker 2: DEI something that you know, I am in certain ways

1737
01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:20,479
Speaker 2: sympathetic to because I do believe in like a color

1738
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:24,439
Speaker 2: blind meritocracy. Well I don't really believe in meritocracy, but

1739
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 2: I do believe in color the color blind aspiration, and

1740
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:31,280
Speaker 2: I think that the you know, the sort of like

1741
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:37,120
Speaker 2: extremes of wocism with the as emblematically Abramax Kenny and

1742
01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 2: these sorts of people went too far. But also these

1743
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 2: executive orders read it could be interpreted to ban the

1744
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:48,320
Speaker 2: teaching of things like redlining, the history of redlining, you know,

1745
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 2: the accurate history of reconstruction, the accurate history of slavery

1746
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:57,919
Speaker 2: and Jim Crow. And that is a tremendous step backwards.

1747
01:31:57,960 --> 01:31:59,920
Speaker 2: And it's also you know, this is part and parcel

1748
01:31:59,880 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 2: of playbook of like, you know, wanting to control history.

1749
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:04,080
Speaker 6: History is always contested.

1750
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:07,400
Speaker 2: Wanted to control the narrative that we're allowed to tell,

1751
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:10,280
Speaker 2: the story we're allowed to tell about ourselves, and to

1752
01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:15,519
Speaker 2: erase how central the battles over race and racism have

1753
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:19,680
Speaker 2: been in this country. And so you know, this is

1754
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:23,080
Speaker 2: a little bit removed from the Harvard example, but I

1755
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:27,200
Speaker 2: see all of these things ads connected to an attempt

1756
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:30,800
Speaker 2: to you know, they'll use language about, oh, we want

1757
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,320
Speaker 2: it to be neutral. No, you want a certain narrative

1758
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:37,719
Speaker 2: to be taught. You want certain students to be allowed

1759
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:43,160
Speaker 2: to attend. You want like Maga affirmative action, both in

1760
01:32:43,200 --> 01:32:46,640
Speaker 2: terms of the students and the professors. You want to

1761
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 2: control these This is not about academic freedom.

1762
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:51,080
Speaker 6: This is the polar opposite of that.

1763
01:32:51,760 --> 01:32:56,439
Speaker 2: This is about this administration specifically wanting to control these

1764
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 2: institutions in terms of what they can teach, how they

1765
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:00,519
Speaker 2: can teach it, and who they can teach it to,

1766
01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:04,880
Speaker 2: even including you know, they wanted they wanted to. One

1767
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:07,320
Speaker 2: of the demands from Harvard was that they should be

1768
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:11,280
Speaker 2: vetting all international students for quote unquote anti American sentiment. Well,

1769
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,479
Speaker 2: what does that mean? What does that mean? You know,

1770
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:17,080
Speaker 2: are you allowed to be, you know, have a critique

1771
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:18,559
Speaker 2: of the Iraq war? Are you allowed to have a

1772
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:23,280
Speaker 2: critique of Tesla? You know, are you allowed you know, certainly,

1773
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:25,320
Speaker 2: are you allowed to have a critique of our policy

1774
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:28,840
Speaker 2: means of eve the Middle East? That's those are the

1775
01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:34,400
Speaker 2: sort of like authoritarian, woke demands that were laid at

1776
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 2: the feet of Harvard, and you know, I the last

1777
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 2: point I'll make about this just zooming out from education

1778
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:43,280
Speaker 2: is I do think as Trump has become more unpopular

1779
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:49,040
Speaker 2: and as there has been a visible grassroots movement in

1780
01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:51,559
Speaker 2: the streets to push back against him, et cetera, I

1781
01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:54,080
Speaker 2: do think it has bolstered the courage. You're starting to

1782
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:58,439
Speaker 2: see a little bit more galvanized resistance from these you know,

1783
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:02,320
Speaker 2: cultural institutions, whether it's Harvard, the media is being a

1784
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:04,599
Speaker 2: little bit more outspoken. There's still a lot of problems there.

1785
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:08,320
Speaker 2: Some of the law firms are now getting together and

1786
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:10,800
Speaker 2: fighting back. You see, certainly the courts are starting to

1787
01:34:10,840 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 2: take a harder line. Democrats are getting a bit of

1788
01:34:13,320 --> 01:34:14,920
Speaker 2: a spy and that's you know, we're about to talk

1789
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:15,880
Speaker 2: more about the Democrats in.

1790
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:16,479
Speaker 6: The next block.

1791
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:21,759
Speaker 2: So you do see some of these elite institutions getting

1792
01:34:21,800 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 2: their act together to push back a little bit. And

1793
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:25,680
Speaker 2: I guess you could say that with regard to like

1794
01:34:25,720 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 2: some of the business institutions on the tariffs too.

1795
01:34:28,439 --> 01:34:29,760
Speaker 4: Huh. Yeah, that's an interesting point.

1796
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:33,320
Speaker 3: I mean, if people want to read a good book

1797
01:34:33,360 --> 01:34:36,720
Speaker 3: on this age of entitlement by Christopher Caldwell is a

1798
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:39,519
Speaker 3: short read and it was hugely influential. I mean, I've

1799
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:42,320
Speaker 3: seen some people point to the book Richard Hannania wrote

1800
01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:44,880
Speaker 3: a couple of years back, but Caldwell is the book

1801
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:48,840
Speaker 3: that really was influential on the right at kind of

1802
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:54,640
Speaker 3: mapping out how civil rights legislation and then it's I

1803
01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 3: guess it's process of moving through the courts. So over

1804
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:02,639
Speaker 3: the course of decades allow the federal government to use

1805
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:06,280
Speaker 3: a lot of that for ideological purposes. And what you're describing,

1806
01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:10,439
Speaker 3: Crystal is the Trump administration saying, all right, screw it,

1807
01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:14,320
Speaker 3: we're not going back to neutrality, which is what a

1808
01:35:14,360 --> 01:35:16,760
Speaker 3: lot of or quote unquote neutrality. There's such thing as

1809
01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:20,479
Speaker 3: real neutrality, but sort of this pro American, pro Western

1810
01:35:20,479 --> 01:35:27,040
Speaker 3: civilization sense of consensus in society that used to exists, whether.

1811
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:27,800
Speaker 4: Or not that's good or bad.

1812
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:30,040
Speaker 3: That is the that was the aspiration of a lot

1813
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 3: of critics of this, actually on the left and on

1814
01:35:32,040 --> 01:35:34,320
Speaker 3: the right, mostly on the right for a long time.

1815
01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:36,320
Speaker 3: But this is the Trump administration saying.

1816
01:35:36,360 --> 01:35:36,840
Speaker 4: Screw it.

1817
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:41,200
Speaker 3: This is about I guess our agenda items. And that's

1818
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 3: where I think this definition of anti Semitism is dragging

1819
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:48,720
Speaker 3: down what is a great project overall. And it is

1820
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:53,240
Speaker 3: a real I mean, it's a huge unforced error. I

1821
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:56,519
Speaker 3: don't know who in the administration is pushing this so

1822
01:35:56,640 --> 01:36:00,000
Speaker 3: forcefully without listening to any of the feedback on it.

1823
01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:03,040
Speaker 3: I actually like, again, I agree with what a lot

1824
01:36:03,080 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 3: of Christopher Caldwell at Lines and Age of Entitlement, But man,

1825
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:07,920
Speaker 3: I don't know how you.

1826
01:36:07,960 --> 01:36:09,320
Speaker 4: Can approach this issue.

1827
01:36:10,120 --> 01:36:12,040
Speaker 3: As you know, it's it's like we were talking about

1828
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:14,000
Speaker 3: earlier the shows Jadie Vance going to Munich and then

1829
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:16,800
Speaker 3: being the vice president for and talking to the UK

1830
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:19,760
Speaker 3: about speech policies and EU about speech policies, and then

1831
01:36:20,040 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 3: being the vice president of an administration that is defending

1832
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:26,840
Speaker 3: scooping kids off the street for op eds against Israel.

1833
01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:27,519
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just.

1834
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 3: This is like a generational opportunity for people on the

1835
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:36,320
Speaker 3: white on the right, on the white's that'll immuse some people,

1836
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:39,040
Speaker 3: but on the on the right that is being like

1837
01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:41,920
Speaker 3: utterly squandered. And I do think by the way that

1838
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:46,280
Speaker 3: the way that civil rights bureaucracy has been wielded by

1839
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:49,160
Speaker 3: the left has been intentional in some cases, not in

1840
01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:51,960
Speaker 3: every case, but I do think, you know, there there

1841
01:36:52,080 --> 01:36:56,160
Speaker 3: were abuses of it that were for ideological purposes over

1842
01:36:56,160 --> 01:36:58,680
Speaker 3: the course of the last however many decades. Uh, that

1843
01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:01,400
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that the right thing to do is do

1844
01:37:01,479 --> 01:37:04,240
Speaker 3: it yourself like it's just it's stupid whatever.

1845
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:07,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's I mean, anti Semitism is the cudgel

1846
01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:12,080
Speaker 2: that's being used to you know, embrace it's truly authoritarian tactics.

1847
01:37:12,120 --> 01:37:14,200
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what we're talking about here, both, I mean,

1848
01:37:14,240 --> 01:37:16,800
Speaker 2: and I'm not just talking about with regard to you universities,

1849
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 2: but certainly with the snatching up these kids off the

1850
01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:22,799
Speaker 2: street and you know, cracking down on speech and descent,

1851
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:29,040
Speaker 2: forcing universities to you know, either kick kids down school

1852
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:32,840
Speaker 2: who are American citizen. Isn't just about immigrants either, the

1853
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:36,639
Speaker 2: actions that have been taken, and so they've adopted this

1854
01:37:37,160 --> 01:37:41,320
Speaker 2: like the most hyper woke language you could possibly imagine

1855
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:45,760
Speaker 2: about like safe spaces and microaggressions.

1856
01:37:45,479 --> 01:37:48,479
Speaker 3: Sciences anti Semitism, that is what I mean. We saw

1857
01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:52,759
Speaker 3: this argument made at a Senate hearing recently from a rabbi.

1858
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:53,599
Speaker 6: It's right.

1859
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:55,560
Speaker 4: Matt Walsh pointed.

1860
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:57,360
Speaker 3: Out, actually of all people that this is exactly what

1861
01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:01,240
Speaker 3: Abrams Kendy has argued. You know, Natalie Winters, I was

1862
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:04,040
Speaker 3: talking to her yesterday from Bannon's war room.

1863
01:38:04,160 --> 01:38:04,760
Speaker 14: She makes a.

1864
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:07,479
Speaker 3: Great point that like the and you would still disagree

1865
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:11,800
Speaker 3: with it, Crystal, but like anti Americanism would have been

1866
01:38:12,120 --> 01:38:17,879
Speaker 3: politically a better framing for the administration than anti this

1867
01:38:18,040 --> 01:38:20,960
Speaker 3: definition of anti Semitism that is also anti Zionism. Now

1868
01:38:21,320 --> 01:38:24,479
Speaker 3: where you and I might disagree with that is okay.

1869
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:27,640
Speaker 3: Now that you have defined anti Semitism as anti Zionism,

1870
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:30,360
Speaker 3: I'm going to need to see you outlining exactly what

1871
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:33,600
Speaker 3: you think anti Americanism is, because I'm not sure that

1872
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:36,599
Speaker 3: I trust that definition at the point. So if they

1873
01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:39,960
Speaker 3: want to do anti Americanism, which they are trying in

1874
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:42,960
Speaker 3: like some different ways that aren't as I think Front

1875
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:47,480
Speaker 3: centers the anti Semitism point, then they should enumerate exactly

1876
01:38:47,479 --> 01:38:50,439
Speaker 3: what they're looking for when they are when they're telling

1877
01:38:50,439 --> 01:38:52,800
Speaker 3: schools to screen for anti Americanism. I would be very

1878
01:38:52,840 --> 01:38:56,000
Speaker 3: curious to see that because, you know, personally, I'm like, yeah,

1879
01:38:56,080 --> 01:38:59,439
Speaker 3: maybe you shouldn't bring people here who hate the United States,

1880
01:38:59,479 --> 01:39:01,680
Speaker 3: and there are people who hate the United States, But

1881
01:39:02,120 --> 01:39:03,439
Speaker 3: what are you going to do to screen for that?

1882
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:05,160
Speaker 3: Is it gonna be people who didn't like the Iraq War?

1883
01:39:05,240 --> 01:39:07,120
Speaker 3: Is it going to be people who don't like Israel

1884
01:39:07,800 --> 01:39:09,200
Speaker 3: and the way that it's treated pass?

1885
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:10,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like, who aren't a fan of

1886
01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:14,559
Speaker 2: Elon Musk? Who you know South African board. You know,

1887
01:39:15,560 --> 01:39:18,280
Speaker 2: I personally would like to screen this administration for anti

1888
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:20,479
Speaker 2: American sentiment, given that they want to turn us into

1889
01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:25,040
Speaker 2: El Salvador. Yes, and apparently are not acquainted with the

1890
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:28,639
Speaker 2: First Amendment and freedom of speech or you know, whatever

1891
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:31,439
Speaker 2: it requirements for due process either.

1892
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:33,160
Speaker 4: So devs can do that. As soon as they get

1893
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 4: the power back, they can do it again. Right. But

1894
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:36,640
Speaker 4: that's really like, that's part of this.

1895
01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:39,120
Speaker 3: I mean, if if you want to write the template

1896
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:42,880
Speaker 3: for to be exploited in terms of deportation and all

1897
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:46,200
Speaker 3: of that, here's the template for devs.

1898
01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:51,840
Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's talk about dems and what's going

1899
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:55,560
Speaker 2: on with them, because there are a lot of interesting developments.

1900
01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:58,880
Speaker 2: Let me go and start with this. So AOC and

1901
01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:02,479
Speaker 2: Bernie have been doing this stop oligarchy tour and they've

1902
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:04,960
Speaker 2: been going to all these like super red places I'm

1903
01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:12,080
Speaker 2: talking about, like Idaho and Utah and getting insane crowds,

1904
01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:15,479
Speaker 2: insane crowds, bigger crowds than Bernie ever got in his

1905
01:40:15,720 --> 01:40:18,120
Speaker 2: either of his presidential runs. And he you know, he

1906
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:22,479
Speaker 2: was also famous like Trump for attracting significant crowds. Let's

1907
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:24,240
Speaker 2: just take a look at a little bit of one

1908
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:26,880
Speaker 2: of their recent rallies and some of the way he's

1909
01:40:26,920 --> 01:40:29,439
Speaker 2: interacting with AOC and also the energy the crowd.

1910
01:40:29,800 --> 01:40:37,120
Speaker 18: Now I want to say a word about my daughter, No,

1911
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:41,559
Speaker 18: I want to say a word about Alexandria and why

1912
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:47,960
Speaker 18: why what she's doing is so important. And here's the story.

1913
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:56,040
Speaker 18: Six years ago, six years ago, what were you doing

1914
01:40:56,120 --> 01:41:06,559
Speaker 18: for a living? She was a waitress, but she looked

1915
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:12,520
Speaker 18: around her and she saw a society that was fundamentally

1916
01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:18,240
Speaker 18: unjust and in many ways ugly to the people in

1917
01:41:18,280 --> 01:41:20,719
Speaker 18: the community in which she lived in New York City.

1918
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:24,400
Speaker 18: She stood up and took on one of the most

1919
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:37,519
Speaker 18: powerful people in the House of Representatives. And she started

1920
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:41,000
Speaker 18: with almost no money against the guy who had unlimited funds,

1921
01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:43,559
Speaker 18: and she'd beat him.

1922
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:49,000
Speaker 19: Okay, we saw it just happen with Trump's corrupt and

1923
01:41:49,080 --> 01:41:54,320
Speaker 19: disastrous and rushed tariff scheme. We saw Marjorie Taylor green

1924
01:41:54,400 --> 01:42:01,160
Speaker 19: by that dip. I dont question for her, how much

1925
01:42:01,160 --> 01:42:03,400
Speaker 19: did you make? How much did you.

1926
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:04,919
Speaker 11: Make off of people's despair?

1927
01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:08,040
Speaker 19: How much did you make off that panic? How much

1928
01:42:08,120 --> 01:42:11,080
Speaker 19: did you make off of that suffering? No more, we

1929
01:42:11,200 --> 01:42:12,200
Speaker 19: can't accept it.

1930
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:20,400
Speaker 2: And I think, Emily, what you've seen as Bernie and Aose,

1931
01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:23,719
Speaker 2: they were first out of the gates. They launched this tour.

1932
01:42:24,120 --> 01:42:27,200
Speaker 2: They've been all over the country. They're attracting these just

1933
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:31,120
Speaker 2: absolutely blockbuster crowds everywhere. They're putting up a fight. They

1934
01:42:31,160 --> 01:42:34,439
Speaker 2: have a strategy. And then you see the Centrists like

1935
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:38,439
Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer who are completely adrift, have nothing to say,

1936
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:41,160
Speaker 2: out of touch with the moment, putting up no fight,

1937
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:43,840
Speaker 2: capitulating the Republicans in the one moment that they have leverage,

1938
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 2: et cetera. And watching this dynamic play out has completely

1939
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:53,040
Speaker 2: shifted the Democratic base in ways that we have not

1940
01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:55,680
Speaker 2: seen before where they are disgusted with their own leadership,

1941
01:42:55,880 --> 01:42:58,559
Speaker 2: very different from last time Trump was in office, where Nance,

1942
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:00,719
Speaker 2: Bloci and Adam Shift and all these four heroes.

1943
01:43:01,280 --> 01:43:03,160
Speaker 6: And now that.

1944
01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:05,840
Speaker 2: Is also being reflected in who they see as the

1945
01:43:05,960 --> 01:43:08,880
Speaker 2: leaders of the party and in what direction they want

1946
01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:12,160
Speaker 2: the party to shift. So this is one of the

1947
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:14,639
Speaker 2: fascinating dynamics is playing in. I think what was important

1948
01:43:14,680 --> 01:43:18,880
Speaker 2: about that clip where Bernie says, you know my daughter Alexandria.

1949
01:43:18,960 --> 01:43:21,680
Speaker 6: Yes, Like, first of all, he clearly loves her.

1950
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 2: He is not a like warm and cuddly guy like

1951
01:43:24,280 --> 01:43:26,800
Speaker 2: to have that level of affection from Bernie Sanders, that's

1952
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:27,360
Speaker 2: very telling.

1953
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:27,639
Speaker 20: Yeah.

1954
01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:29,160
Speaker 2: And number two, you know people have been asked you like,

1955
01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:32,920
Speaker 2: who's Bernie's successor who's he gonna you know, annoint for

1956
01:43:33,680 --> 01:43:35,640
Speaker 2: to lead this movement going forward? Like I think we

1957
01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:39,280
Speaker 2: have our answer. He's he has picked AOC like that

1958
01:43:39,439 --> 01:43:43,080
Speaker 2: is the person he is elevating, and I think very

1959
01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:46,400
Speaker 2: likely will be the person he pushes forward in twenty

1960
01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:46,920
Speaker 2: twenty eight.

1961
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:51,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right. And actually we teased the segment.

1962
01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:53,439
Speaker 3: I tease this segment earlier in the show by saying

1963
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:55,920
Speaker 3: Dems are in disarray, and I still stand by that,

1964
01:43:55,960 --> 01:43:57,479
Speaker 3: but both parties are always in disarray.

1965
01:43:57,479 --> 01:43:59,400
Speaker 4: The reason I stand by that here though.

1966
01:43:59,240 --> 01:44:00,800
Speaker 6: And should be by the way they should be in

1967
01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:02,639
Speaker 6: disiroy totally ruth.

1968
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:05,720
Speaker 3: But the reason I stand by this here is, you know,

1969
01:44:06,200 --> 01:44:08,960
Speaker 3: what Bernie and Alexandria Casio Kortez are doing here is

1970
01:44:09,400 --> 01:44:12,240
Speaker 3: showing the establishment of the like. This is as much

1971
01:44:12,280 --> 01:44:14,360
Speaker 3: a message to all of those people in the crowd

1972
01:44:14,479 --> 01:44:16,720
Speaker 3: and to people who support them as it is to

1973
01:44:17,040 --> 01:44:21,120
Speaker 3: democratic elites who really, really really don't want to hear this,

1974
01:44:21,400 --> 01:44:24,080
Speaker 3: but it's going to get hard for them not to

1975
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:26,080
Speaker 3: hear it. And I know this is going to be

1976
01:44:26,360 --> 01:44:28,360
Speaker 3: a little bit out of border. But the reason I

1977
01:44:28,360 --> 01:44:30,200
Speaker 3: want to kick to James Carvill actually now that i'm

1978
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:34,840
Speaker 3: thinking about it, Crystal, is because he's proposing that the populist,

1979
01:44:34,880 --> 01:44:39,320
Speaker 3: the economic populist Deems break away from the sort of

1980
01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:42,160
Speaker 3: he wouldn't use this phrase centristems, but I think that

1981
01:44:42,280 --> 01:44:45,040
Speaker 3: has to be accurately described as centrist stems. What he's

1982
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:47,960
Speaker 3: talking about, he's sort of saying the third way Dems

1983
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:50,479
Speaker 3: should own the Democratic Party and everybody else should beat

1984
01:44:50,520 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 3: another party.

1985
01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:51,559
Speaker 4: And Alexandra A.

1986
01:44:51,560 --> 01:44:53,840
Speaker 3: Cosio Kortez has said herself, you know, if we were

1987
01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:55,640
Speaker 3: in Europe, Nancy Pelosi and I would not be in

1988
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:57,760
Speaker 3: the same party, and that.

1989
01:44:57,720 --> 01:45:00,680
Speaker 4: These two poles. Krvil is just proposing a toll divorce it.

1990
01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:01,960
Speaker 3: And the reason I want to tick it to this

1991
01:45:02,200 --> 01:45:06,400
Speaker 3: with that, and I'm curious for your thoughts, is that

1992
01:45:06,920 --> 01:45:11,280
Speaker 3: is not even good for the movement he wants to succeed,

1993
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:17,400
Speaker 3: Like you're just asking for everyone to agree on pronouns

1994
01:45:17,720 --> 01:45:21,320
Speaker 3: and neoliberal economics. So anyway, let's rule carvel and then

1995
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:22,759
Speaker 3: we can get into some of those.

1996
01:45:22,840 --> 01:45:25,360
Speaker 15: At most of the things at the faculty lounge that

1997
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:28,280
Speaker 15: Dynasty Left wants eighty five percent of them. I want

1998
01:45:28,320 --> 01:45:31,400
Speaker 15: to we like to expand opportunity to people. We'd like

1999
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:33,840
Speaker 15: to expand people that to have health care. We'd like

2000
01:45:33,880 --> 01:45:37,800
Speaker 15: to do more to help young voters. We think that

2001
01:45:38,600 --> 01:45:43,080
Speaker 15: environmental problems are totally crushing every phrase. We want solutions there.

2002
01:45:43,479 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 15: We think income inequality is a terrible thing, and we've

2003
01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:49,680
Speaker 15: got to do certain things to address it, like, okay,

2004
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:52,600
Speaker 15: we be around, raise taxes on incomes over four and

2005
01:45:52,680 --> 01:45:55,120
Speaker 15: thousand dollars here, raise them in wage the the things

2006
01:45:55,120 --> 01:45:58,040
Speaker 15: that we can work on. I don't think we can

2007
01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:03,719
Speaker 15: work together on pronoun politics. I don't.

2008
01:46:04,280 --> 01:46:05,720
Speaker 4: I think that you're not.

2009
01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:12,840
Speaker 15: This election did not teach you how damaging that is.

2010
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:15,120
Speaker 15: I don't think there's anything that I can tell you.

2011
01:46:16,040 --> 01:46:20,440
Speaker 15: And you say, this guy is stuck in another century,

2012
01:46:20,960 --> 01:46:26,479
Speaker 15: not another decade, and he represents nothing to do with

2013
01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:30,880
Speaker 15: the future of our movement. I can accept that you're

2014
01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:35,040
Speaker 15: not really going to hurt my feelings. So maybe we

2015
01:46:35,120 --> 01:46:41,000
Speaker 15: could have a kind of amicable split here and we

2016
01:46:41,160 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 15: go to post in twenty twenty six, because you don't

2017
01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:48,240
Speaker 15: have a run again. They never run against a Republican, Okay,

2018
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:52,479
Speaker 15: all they do is run against other Democrats. Don't quite

2019
01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:55,440
Speaker 15: understand why you're so anxious to have the word democrat

2020
01:46:56,400 --> 01:47:00,599
Speaker 15: in the description of what you do. But we can

2021
01:47:00,800 --> 01:47:03,479
Speaker 15: have a amical split here.

2022
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:06,360
Speaker 3: Chrystal, this is a very bad time for James Carvel

2023
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:08,640
Speaker 3: to be making this argument because the split screen is

2024
01:47:08,720 --> 01:47:15,519
Speaker 3: AOC and Bernie Sanders drawing record crowds in red states.

2025
01:47:15,400 --> 01:47:18,559
Speaker 2: Right, and you want them out of your coalition? Like

2026
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:19,679
Speaker 2: what are we talking about?

2027
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:23,799
Speaker 3: You're in a message of economic populism, quote fighting oligarchy.

2028
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:27,040
Speaker 2: Right, Because here's the thing is, like previously AOC would

2029
01:47:27,040 --> 01:47:30,320
Speaker 2: have been the emblem of that like faculty lounge language

2030
01:47:30,479 --> 01:47:34,160
Speaker 2: that he talks about. Okay, she sounds there like Marjorie

2031
01:47:34,160 --> 01:47:37,240
Speaker 2: Taylor Green's insider training and stop oligarchy, and they're comming

2032
01:47:37,280 --> 01:47:39,920
Speaker 2: for your social security and your medicare Like she is

2033
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:43,960
Speaker 2: fully on the economic populist message, and you know Bernie

2034
01:47:43,960 --> 01:47:47,080
Speaker 2: always has been more or less fully on the economic

2035
01:47:47,439 --> 01:47:51,200
Speaker 2: populist message. So talk about being out of touch and

2036
01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:54,439
Speaker 2: missing the moment. And also, by the way, if you're

2037
01:47:54,479 --> 01:47:56,240
Speaker 2: like setting up your tent pole of who wants to

2038
01:47:56,280 --> 01:47:59,000
Speaker 2: come over the James Carvel version of the Democratic Party

2039
01:47:59,479 --> 01:48:01,800
Speaker 2: versus the AOC and Bernie Party, I gotta tell you

2040
01:48:02,160 --> 01:48:03,720
Speaker 2: there ain't gonna be a lot of takers on your

2041
01:48:03,720 --> 01:48:08,800
Speaker 2: side because even people like MSNBC Nicole Wallace, I'm here

2042
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:10,880
Speaker 2: and things coming out out of their mouth that I

2043
01:48:11,080 --> 01:48:16,120
Speaker 2: never in my wildest dreams would have imagined, because they,

2044
01:48:16,520 --> 01:48:20,320
Speaker 2: I think were chastened by the fact that Joe Amiga

2045
01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:21,920
Speaker 2: made their trip to mar A Lago and there was

2046
01:48:21,960 --> 01:48:24,240
Speaker 2: such a massive backlash and the network was sort of

2047
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:28,599
Speaker 2: like cratering, and they took their cue of like, Okay,

2048
01:48:28,880 --> 01:48:31,360
Speaker 2: we have to at least align with the part of

2049
01:48:31,400 --> 01:48:33,759
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party that wants to stand up and fight

2050
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:37,120
Speaker 2: back against Trump because otherwise, what like what are we

2051
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:39,400
Speaker 2: even doing here? Like why do we even exist? And

2052
01:48:39,439 --> 01:48:41,479
Speaker 2: we will have zero people watching us and they will

2053
01:48:41,479 --> 01:48:45,559
Speaker 2: all hate us. So they've followed the ratings and the

2054
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:48,559
Speaker 2: people who are demonstrating, as you said, how to fight

2055
01:48:48,680 --> 01:48:51,280
Speaker 2: and putting on the class for all of the Democratic

2056
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:54,240
Speaker 2: elites are AOC and Bernie. So you even have people

2057
01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:58,200
Speaker 2: like Nicole Wallace, who is out there former George W.

2058
01:48:58,360 --> 01:49:04,040
Speaker 2: Bush spokesperson, Cole Wallace out there freezing the Bernie and

2059
01:49:04,120 --> 01:49:06,400
Speaker 2: AOC stop oligarchy to artagalism.

2060
01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:09,040
Speaker 20: And we should say AOC and Bernie Sanders have been

2061
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:14,519
Speaker 20: traveling the country and generating crowds that size Christie all

2062
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:17,479
Speaker 20: over the place, and not just in Democratic strongholds. There

2063
01:49:17,520 --> 01:49:22,120
Speaker 20: is an appetite for economic populism that there hasn't been

2064
01:49:22,400 --> 01:49:23,360
Speaker 20: in many years.

2065
01:49:23,720 --> 01:49:26,920
Speaker 3: And here comes AOC. We have the next element we

2066
01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:27,759
Speaker 3: could put on the screen.

2067
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:28,439
Speaker 4: This is a poll.

2068
01:49:29,000 --> 01:49:33,000
Speaker 3: Look who's catching up in the like these numbers are.

2069
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:35,559
Speaker 3: It's obviously early, but look who's catching up In twenty

2070
01:49:35,560 --> 01:49:39,040
Speaker 3: twenty eight Democratic primary poll numbers from Yale. We've got

2071
01:49:39,200 --> 01:49:45,640
Speaker 3: Kamala Harris at twenty eight percent, AOC at twenty one percent,

2072
01:49:46,120 --> 01:49:51,559
Speaker 3: twenty one percent. So Crystal's your point. If Bernie chooses

2073
01:49:51,560 --> 01:49:56,080
Speaker 3: Alexander A. Kaser Cortes as his heir man, things are

2074
01:49:56,120 --> 01:49:59,439
Speaker 3: going in quite a good direction for populists on the left.

2075
01:49:59,439 --> 01:50:01,439
Speaker 3: We can put the n pole. This is the next element.

2076
01:50:01,439 --> 01:50:03,160
Speaker 3: We can put this next poll up on the screen.

2077
01:50:03,479 --> 01:50:06,920
Speaker 3: Among Democrats, here are the net favorables. AOC is up

2078
01:50:07,080 --> 01:50:11,479
Speaker 3: sixty two percent plus sixty two percent, Harris plus fifty

2079
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:15,719
Speaker 3: nine percent. So that's close. But Harris right now probably,

2080
01:50:15,760 --> 01:50:18,040
Speaker 3: I mean she's just getting off a presidential run. So

2081
01:50:18,280 --> 01:50:21,439
Speaker 3: that's even a failed presidential run with name recognition and

2082
01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:21,960
Speaker 3: all of that.

2083
01:50:22,160 --> 01:50:24,840
Speaker 2: It's it's just kind of like the default. Yeah, yeah,

2084
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:29,280
Speaker 2: but then you see is there at the bottom. See

2085
01:50:29,360 --> 01:50:31,160
Speaker 2: it is with friend John Patterman.

2086
01:50:31,640 --> 01:50:37,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, But anyway, the argument that, and I will say

2087
01:50:37,320 --> 01:50:40,360
Speaker 3: Bernie and AOC I think have learned from the last

2088
01:50:40,360 --> 01:50:42,960
Speaker 3: four or five years in politics and are not leading

2089
01:50:43,680 --> 01:50:46,599
Speaker 3: with identity messaging in a way that I think AOC

2090
01:50:46,760 --> 01:50:50,080
Speaker 3: genuinely did struggle with Ryan documents that in some book

2091
01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:53,280
Speaker 3: like that really was a stumbling block for some left populace.

2092
01:50:53,400 --> 01:50:56,840
Speaker 4: But I think and maybe the right is underestimating this

2093
01:50:57,479 --> 01:51:02,200
Speaker 4: they have learned from that. And James jamesting that too.

2094
01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently I'm like, the who are you talking even

2095
01:51:04,880 --> 01:51:06,800
Speaker 2: talking about? Like the pronouns are out of the bio

2096
01:51:06,960 --> 01:51:10,720
Speaker 2: you won, Like that's you know, go look at who

2097
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:13,840
Speaker 2: is the emblem of that politics. And she's touring the

2098
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:18,320
Speaker 2: country getting massive crowds, many of whom were not Bernie supporters,

2099
01:51:18,960 --> 01:51:22,240
Speaker 2: talking about how we're going to fight back against oligarchy and.

2100
01:51:22,360 --> 01:51:23,960
Speaker 4: Probably Trust supporters.

2101
01:51:23,479 --> 01:51:26,720
Speaker 3: By the way, Yeah, I mean to some of those

2102
01:51:26,720 --> 01:51:28,080
Speaker 3: people there probably are Trump voters.

2103
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:29,240
Speaker 6: That's very possible.

2104
01:51:29,720 --> 01:51:31,920
Speaker 2: Possible if you're going to Idaho, there's going to be

2105
01:51:31,960 --> 01:51:37,160
Speaker 2: some likely Trump supporters there. And you know the thing

2106
01:51:37,240 --> 01:51:39,640
Speaker 2: that to me is even more noteworthy because you know

2107
01:51:39,680 --> 01:51:42,080
Speaker 2: it's one poll whatever, who knows other poles have said

2108
01:51:42,160 --> 01:51:44,760
Speaker 2: other things, et cetera. But the thing to me that

2109
01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:46,760
Speaker 2: was even more noteworthy is if you could put the

2110
01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:49,240
Speaker 2: last element up here on the screen. As long as

2111
01:51:49,240 --> 01:51:52,120
Speaker 2: I've been following these polls, when you ask Democratic base

2112
01:51:52,280 --> 01:51:54,000
Speaker 2: do you want the party to move to the left,

2113
01:51:54,040 --> 01:51:55,800
Speaker 2: to move to the right, or to stay the same,

2114
01:51:56,560 --> 01:52:00,519
Speaker 2: they generally say they should be more moderate. Now, I've said,

2115
01:52:00,680 --> 01:52:03,759
Speaker 2: usually people's version of moderate is like they should increase

2116
01:52:03,760 --> 01:52:06,720
Speaker 2: social security and they should increase the minimum wage. It's

2117
01:52:06,760 --> 01:52:10,679
Speaker 2: like very economically populous. But you know, maybe that was cope.

2118
01:52:10,720 --> 01:52:11,120
Speaker 6: I don't know.

2119
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:15,240
Speaker 2: So in January end of January of this year, that

2120
01:52:15,479 --> 01:52:18,200
Speaker 2: continued to be the trend. Forty five percent of Democratic

2121
01:52:18,200 --> 01:52:21,120
Speaker 2: base voters said they want the party to be more moderate,

2122
01:52:21,200 --> 01:52:24,680
Speaker 2: only twenty nine percent said more liberal. Now, in a

2123
01:52:24,760 --> 01:52:29,080
Speaker 2: new poll, things have completely shifted. Now you have a

2124
01:52:29,120 --> 01:52:32,400
Speaker 2: majority fifty percent who say they want the party to

2125
01:52:32,439 --> 01:52:34,800
Speaker 2: be more progressive, twenty four percent who say that it

2126
01:52:34,800 --> 01:52:38,080
Speaker 2: should stay the same, and only eighteen percent that say

2127
01:52:38,120 --> 01:52:42,320
Speaker 2: it should become more moderate. Now, again, I think these

2128
01:52:42,360 --> 01:52:44,960
Speaker 2: terms are very squishy. The one pole says liberal, the

2129
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:48,120
Speaker 2: other says progressive. Maybe for us is better branding, et cetera,

2130
01:52:48,160 --> 01:52:50,960
Speaker 2: et cetera. But when you see this big of a shift.

2131
01:52:51,120 --> 01:52:55,479
Speaker 2: I do think it signifies something going on here because again,

2132
01:52:55,880 --> 01:52:58,479
Speaker 2: who are the people that they're seeing who are actually fighting.

2133
01:52:58,520 --> 01:53:00,360
Speaker 2: I mean, this is all the Democratic base ones they

2134
01:53:00,360 --> 01:53:03,040
Speaker 2: want people to fight back against Trump, and who is

2135
01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:06,719
Speaker 2: fighting back against Trump. It's the progressives. So they're like, yes,

2136
01:53:06,840 --> 01:53:09,960
Speaker 2: we need to do that more. And I think that

2137
01:53:10,120 --> 01:53:14,120
Speaker 2: is what is causing this real sea change within the

2138
01:53:14,160 --> 01:53:17,439
Speaker 2: Democratic base and their conception of who their leaders are,

2139
01:53:17,520 --> 01:53:19,680
Speaker 2: who their leaders should be, and the way that the

2140
01:53:19,680 --> 01:53:21,559
Speaker 2: party should orient itself going forward.

2141
01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:25,040
Speaker 3: James Carvel got Bill Clinton elected so we could get

2142
01:53:25,080 --> 01:53:27,080
Speaker 3: on the path to wto I mean.

2143
01:53:27,320 --> 01:53:30,640
Speaker 2: It's just like well, and not to mention Emily, his

2144
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:33,679
Speaker 2: whole thing like oh they only run against Democrats. DLC

2145
01:53:33,920 --> 01:53:36,920
Speaker 2: was all about taking over the Democratic Party and like

2146
01:53:37,160 --> 01:53:39,040
Speaker 2: kicking out the establishment of Democrats.

2147
01:53:39,160 --> 01:53:41,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, so, like, you know, there's a lot there.

2148
01:53:41,880 --> 01:53:43,600
Speaker 3: The last thing I'll say is this just reminds me

2149
01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:45,479
Speaker 3: so much of what happened on the right in twenty

2150
01:53:45,520 --> 01:53:48,720
Speaker 3: twelve after Mitt Romney lost the Republican National Committee. At

2151
01:53:48,720 --> 01:53:52,040
Speaker 3: this time, under Wright's previous if I'm remembering correctly, put

2152
01:53:52,080 --> 01:53:55,920
Speaker 3: out what is known infamously in Republican circles as the.

2153
01:53:55,880 --> 01:53:58,840
Speaker 4: Autopsy, and that autopsy called.

2154
01:53:58,560 --> 01:54:03,120
Speaker 3: For the Republican Party to quoteunk moderate on issues like immigration,

2155
01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:06,280
Speaker 3: social stuff, and you could. I mean, if you read

2156
01:54:06,280 --> 01:54:08,439
Speaker 3: it now, you can tell it's just sort of dripping

2157
01:54:08,760 --> 01:54:13,559
Speaker 3: with anger over kind of tea party voters. And what

2158
01:54:13,640 --> 01:54:18,479
Speaker 3: that missed is Republican voters. To the exact point that

2159
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:21,320
Speaker 3: you were making, Actually, some of this popular stuff is

2160
01:54:21,439 --> 01:54:24,679
Speaker 3: moderate to voters. It's not moderate to d C because

2161
01:54:24,720 --> 01:54:28,959
Speaker 3: it's really radical for the clients of many people in Washington,

2162
01:54:29,080 --> 01:54:33,200
Speaker 3: d C. And the influences in Washington, d C. It's

2163
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:35,200
Speaker 3: radical to their bottom lines and to the way that

2164
01:54:35,200 --> 01:54:36,960
Speaker 3: they do business. But most people would be like, oh,

2165
01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:39,400
Speaker 3: campaign finance reform, that's not radical.

2166
01:54:39,600 --> 01:54:43,200
Speaker 2: It's totally everybody having healthcare that seems moderate, you know,

2167
01:54:43,320 --> 01:54:45,280
Speaker 2: like that seems like something we should reasonably do.

2168
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:45,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2169
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:48,920
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, Washington is just completely out of

2170
01:54:48,960 --> 01:54:51,400
Speaker 3: touch when it thinks that something that is like the

2171
01:54:51,480 --> 01:54:53,720
Speaker 3: dumbest statement in the world because it's so obvious at

2172
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:54,040
Speaker 3: this point.

2173
01:54:54,040 --> 01:54:55,200
Speaker 4: But when it thinks that.

2174
01:54:56,480 --> 01:54:59,000
Speaker 3: Tune into breaking points for these stellar insights about how

2175
01:54:59,120 --> 01:55:01,200
Speaker 3: Washington is out of touch but in all serious is

2176
01:55:01,280 --> 01:55:04,360
Speaker 3: like they never learn and that's what we can do.

2177
01:55:04,480 --> 01:55:06,400
Speaker 4: Like, this pattern just doesn't stop.

2178
01:55:06,560 --> 01:55:08,680
Speaker 3: And James Carvill should look at what Republicans did in

2179
01:55:08,720 --> 01:55:11,080
Speaker 3: twenty twelve when they said the only way to win

2180
01:55:11,160 --> 01:55:15,120
Speaker 3: presidential elections is to moderate on immigration and social stuff.

2181
01:55:15,320 --> 01:55:16,920
Speaker 4: And then Donald Trump beats Hillary.

2182
01:55:16,640 --> 01:55:20,360
Speaker 3: Cutting on a platform of like political incorrectness and building

2183
01:55:20,400 --> 01:55:25,080
Speaker 3: a wall. I mean, they're so stupid, They're so stupid,

2184
01:55:25,400 --> 01:55:29,520
Speaker 3: and they can't stop being stupid. And isn't it isn't

2185
01:55:29,520 --> 01:55:31,680
Speaker 3: it Carville's statement, it's the economy stupid?

2186
01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:33,440
Speaker 4: Isn't that? Like him? Yeah, that's him?

2187
01:55:33,920 --> 01:55:35,880
Speaker 2: I just I mean, and this has been the case.

2188
01:55:36,320 --> 01:55:39,800
Speaker 2: This has been the case since the advent of you know,

2189
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:43,680
Speaker 2: the rise of the Bernie movement. You see the energy

2190
01:55:43,680 --> 01:55:47,280
Speaker 2: for this guy. You see how powerful this is. I

2191
01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:49,600
Speaker 2: mean the number of people who gave him ten twenty

2192
01:55:49,680 --> 01:55:53,320
Speaker 2: dollars whatever they could. Yeah, the agenda that they rallied around,

2193
01:55:53,560 --> 01:55:55,360
Speaker 2: that they would show up, they would knocked doors, they

2194
01:55:55,360 --> 01:55:56,760
Speaker 2: would do anything for him.

2195
01:55:57,240 --> 01:55:58,400
Speaker 6: And you want that out of the.

2196
01:55:58,320 --> 01:56:00,600
Speaker 2: Party, Yeah, Like, I mean not really is a big

2197
01:56:00,640 --> 01:56:04,640
Speaker 2: part of where they want went sideways. Instead, you're going

2198
01:56:04,720 --> 01:56:06,560
Speaker 2: to foist on as Hillary Clinton. You're going to foiste

2199
01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:09,280
Speaker 2: on as Joe Biden, like Joe Biden even more so

2200
01:56:09,320 --> 01:56:11,440
Speaker 2: than Hillary Clinton, because she did have some genuine like

2201
01:56:11,440 --> 01:56:14,680
Speaker 2: supporters are excited, first woman president, etcetera, etcetera. Joe Biden

2202
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:18,200
Speaker 2: had none of that. And then you're like, oh, why

2203
01:56:18,280 --> 01:56:21,360
Speaker 2: aren't we cool anymore? Why doesn't anyone want to talk

2204
01:56:21,400 --> 01:56:23,200
Speaker 2: to us? Why did all these you know bros that

2205
01:56:23,240 --> 01:56:27,240
Speaker 2: we spent years maligning as being toxic and spearing relentlessly?

2206
01:56:27,320 --> 01:56:29,240
Speaker 2: How come they don't want to support us anywhere? Oh gee,

2207
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:32,440
Speaker 2: I wonder, I wonder, wonder what caused them to shift

2208
01:56:32,440 --> 01:56:35,440
Speaker 2: away from you? And so once again here you have

2209
01:56:36,640 --> 01:56:40,480
Speaker 2: just very clear example of where the energy is in

2210
01:56:40,520 --> 01:56:44,040
Speaker 2: the party, and you still have people like James Carvill

2211
01:56:44,120 --> 01:56:47,000
Speaker 2: and I would say also like the Ezra Cline abundance

2212
01:56:47,080 --> 01:56:50,240
Speaker 2: movement thing like no, not that thing, that thing which

2213
01:56:50,280 --> 01:56:53,280
Speaker 2: is garnering massive amounts of energy in which people are

2214
01:56:53,320 --> 01:56:55,680
Speaker 2: responding to in real time. No, that can't be the

2215
01:56:55,680 --> 01:56:57,840
Speaker 2: message of the party. It's like, you know, sometimes you

2216
01:56:57,880 --> 01:57:01,320
Speaker 2: have to put the think tankers side. Sometimes you have

2217
01:57:01,360 --> 01:57:03,680
Speaker 2: to even put you know, some of the like focused

2218
01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:07,600
Speaker 2: group tested popularism stuff aside and just see where's energy,

2219
01:57:08,280 --> 01:57:11,720
Speaker 2: what works? And you know, the Democratic base is going

2220
01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:14,400
Speaker 2: to have a say in the future direction of the party,

2221
01:57:14,840 --> 01:57:18,720
Speaker 2: and it's very clear right now what direction they are

2222
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:19,160
Speaker 2: heading in.

2223
01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:23,040
Speaker 3: By the way, some of those bro podcasters, Rogan for example,

2224
01:57:23,120 --> 01:57:26,800
Speaker 3: support universal health care. Maybe, I mean, that's why Bernie

2225
01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:29,480
Speaker 3: sat down with him. I mean, it's just it's such

2226
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:32,520
Speaker 3: a mess and it's their solution is exactly what the

2227
01:57:32,560 --> 01:57:36,360
Speaker 3: Republicans was in twenty twelve. Trump woke the Republican Party

2228
01:57:36,400 --> 01:57:38,640
Speaker 3: up to what their base actually wanted. So that's what

2229
01:57:38,720 --> 01:57:40,560
Speaker 3: AOC and Bernie Sanders are trying to do in a

2230
01:57:40,600 --> 01:57:42,040
Speaker 3: less Trumpian way.

2231
01:57:42,360 --> 01:57:44,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we'll see how that goes.

2232
01:57:44,680 --> 01:57:48,120
Speaker 3: Let's move on Crystal to housing, speaking of things Democrats

2233
01:57:48,160 --> 01:57:49,800
Speaker 3: struggle with, and get to our guest.

2234
01:57:53,040 --> 01:57:55,280
Speaker 2: So one of the issues we've really tried to consistently

2235
01:57:55,440 --> 01:57:57,800
Speaker 2: cover on this show because it is so central to

2236
01:57:58,080 --> 01:58:02,000
Speaker 2: literally everyone, is the issue of housing. And with that

2237
01:58:02,040 --> 01:58:04,320
Speaker 2: in mind, we are really happy to be joined by

2238
01:58:04,360 --> 01:58:07,360
Speaker 2: an author, Brian Goldstone, and journalist who's just put on

2239
01:58:07,440 --> 01:58:10,640
Speaker 2: a fantastic new book called There Is No Place for Us,

2240
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:13,960
Speaker 2: Working and Homeless in America that takes a look at

2241
01:58:14,040 --> 01:58:16,760
Speaker 2: a number of families in and around the Atlanta area

2242
01:58:17,160 --> 01:58:22,600
Speaker 2: who are working doing everything right and yet still because

2243
01:58:22,760 --> 01:58:26,640
Speaker 2: of the cost of housing, find themselves homeless a much

2244
01:58:26,720 --> 01:58:29,800
Speaker 2: undercovered And I guess we could talk to Brian about

2245
01:58:29,800 --> 01:58:32,120
Speaker 2: whether or not it's a new dynamic. But Brian, I'm

2246
01:58:32,160 --> 01:58:33,320
Speaker 2: great to have you, welcome.

2247
01:58:33,880 --> 01:58:35,800
Speaker 8: Thank you so much, Crystal, it's great to be with you.

2248
01:58:36,360 --> 01:58:39,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, just tell us share if you would,

2249
01:58:39,560 --> 01:58:41,800
Speaker 2: the inspiration for the book, and also a little bit

2250
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:43,880
Speaker 2: about just one of these families and how they end

2251
01:58:43,960 --> 01:58:44,680
Speaker 2: up in this situation.

2252
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:46,280
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2253
01:58:46,360 --> 01:58:50,280
Speaker 14: So I first got launched into the subject when my wife,

2254
01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:53,680
Speaker 14: who's a nurse practitioner, was working at a community health

2255
01:58:53,680 --> 01:58:56,280
Speaker 14: center here in Atlanta where we live, and she was

2256
01:58:56,400 --> 01:58:59,080
Speaker 14: just stunned by this trend that she was seeing where

2257
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:02,080
Speaker 14: you know, pats who were working at like Walmart or

2258
01:59:02,160 --> 01:59:05,280
Speaker 14: McDonald's or driving for Uber and Lyft when they finished

2259
01:59:05,320 --> 01:59:07,680
Speaker 14: their shifts, they weren't going to an apartment. They were

2260
01:59:08,000 --> 01:59:12,840
Speaker 14: going to shelters or living with others, or sleeping the

2261
01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:15,200
Speaker 14: very cars they had just done, you know, an airport

2262
01:59:15,280 --> 01:59:16,520
Speaker 14: run in for Uber and Lyft.

2263
01:59:17,080 --> 01:59:19,160
Speaker 8: So as she told me about that, I was shocked.

2264
01:59:19,200 --> 01:59:21,560
Speaker 14: I was like, I haven't in all of the reading

2265
01:59:21,600 --> 01:59:25,320
Speaker 14: I've done about homelessness, I've never seen this sort of

2266
01:59:25,480 --> 01:59:28,960
Speaker 14: discuss this phenomenon of the working homeless, and so I

2267
01:59:29,080 --> 01:59:31,520
Speaker 14: ended up writing a magazine story for The New Republic

2268
01:59:31,520 --> 01:59:33,880
Speaker 14: about it. And even when that was over, I felt

2269
01:59:33,880 --> 01:59:37,600
Speaker 14: like I had only scratched the surface. And you know,

2270
01:59:37,720 --> 01:59:41,640
Speaker 14: one of one of the families who I profile in

2271
01:59:41,680 --> 01:59:44,280
Speaker 14: the book, who I followed, I think their story really

2272
01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:50,080
Speaker 14: illustrates this trend, this this dynamic where families aren't falling

2273
01:59:50,080 --> 01:59:54,240
Speaker 14: into homelessness, they're really being pushed this one family, Celeste

2274
01:59:54,320 --> 01:59:58,600
Speaker 14: is the parent's name. She Her story begins in this

2275
01:59:58,680 --> 02:00:01,720
Speaker 14: really dramatic way with her her rental home burning down.

2276
02:00:02,120 --> 02:00:07,560
Speaker 14: But as the reporting shows, it wasn't this dramatic house

2277
02:00:07,560 --> 02:00:10,560
Speaker 14: fire that pushed her family into homelessness. It was the

2278
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:12,960
Speaker 14: fact that months later, after the house burned down, she

2279
02:00:13,040 --> 02:00:16,720
Speaker 14: realized that the private equity firm that owned her home,

2280
02:00:16,840 --> 02:00:19,840
Speaker 14: who was her landlord, had filed an eviction on her

2281
02:00:20,200 --> 02:00:24,360
Speaker 14: on a home that was no longer standing, that was uninhabitable,

2282
02:00:24,720 --> 02:00:28,200
Speaker 14: and her credit score was tanked, this three digit number

2283
02:00:28,240 --> 02:00:31,200
Speaker 14: that has come to determine whether millions of Americans have

2284
02:00:31,360 --> 02:00:33,800
Speaker 14: access to something as basic as a place to live.

2285
02:00:34,240 --> 02:00:37,800
Speaker 14: Her credit was destroyed, and that is what forced her

2286
02:00:37,800 --> 02:00:39,240
Speaker 14: and her children into homelessness?

2287
02:00:40,280 --> 02:00:42,840
Speaker 3: And what are some of the common I mean, how

2288
02:00:43,200 --> 02:00:47,120
Speaker 3: I'm sure every story is unique, but what are some

2289
02:00:47,160 --> 02:00:50,000
Speaker 3: of the commonalities throughout the families and the.

2290
02:00:50,600 --> 02:00:53,680
Speaker 4: People that you talked to? What are some of the

2291
02:00:53,680 --> 02:00:54,440
Speaker 4: common themes?

2292
02:00:55,200 --> 02:00:57,960
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean, each of the five families who I

2293
02:00:58,040 --> 02:01:01,200
Speaker 14: followed over several years, you know, to write this book,

2294
02:01:01,400 --> 02:01:06,680
Speaker 14: they all have really singular, really distinctive stories and journeys.

2295
02:01:07,160 --> 02:01:10,760
Speaker 14: But I think what comes through really clearly is the

2296
02:01:10,800 --> 02:01:15,000
Speaker 14: common denominator that the reason so many people are becoming

2297
02:01:15,040 --> 02:01:18,879
Speaker 14: homeless in this country is because they don't have access

2298
02:01:19,000 --> 02:01:22,240
Speaker 14: to housing they can afford. And you know, the term

2299
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:26,080
Speaker 14: working homeless really demands that we confront not just the

2300
02:01:26,080 --> 02:01:29,880
Speaker 14: homeless side of that equation, but the working side as well.

2301
02:01:29,920 --> 02:01:33,560
Speaker 14: These are people who are working and working and working

2302
02:01:33,560 --> 02:01:36,400
Speaker 14: some more. And it's not just that their wages are

2303
02:01:36,400 --> 02:01:39,440
Speaker 14: too low, although they're certainly that as well. It's that

2304
02:01:39,520 --> 02:01:42,920
Speaker 14: the very nature of work has changed for millions of Americans.

2305
02:01:43,200 --> 02:01:47,840
Speaker 14: It's become ever more volatile, insecure. People don't know how

2306
02:01:47,840 --> 02:01:49,840
Speaker 14: many hours they're going to be working from one week

2307
02:01:49,840 --> 02:01:52,760
Speaker 14: to the next. Celeste, that woman who I just talked

2308
02:01:52,800 --> 02:01:55,720
Speaker 14: about who's house burned down. She was later diagnosed with

2309
02:01:55,760 --> 02:01:58,960
Speaker 14: ovarian and breast cancer and she was having to choose

2310
02:01:59,000 --> 02:02:01,400
Speaker 14: do I go to my warehod house job or do

2311
02:02:01,440 --> 02:02:03,760
Speaker 14: I go to my chemo treatment, because if I miss

2312
02:02:03,800 --> 02:02:06,600
Speaker 14: a shift at work, I don't get paid, and then

2313
02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:09,120
Speaker 14: me and my kids go from being the squalid extended

2314
02:02:09,120 --> 02:02:11,400
Speaker 14: stay hotel room to being on the streets. So that

2315
02:02:11,680 --> 02:02:14,680
Speaker 14: it's not just wages, it's not just rents, it's not

2316
02:02:14,800 --> 02:02:17,320
Speaker 14: the nature of work, and really the nature of housing,

2317
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:21,040
Speaker 14: a lack of basic tenant rights and tenant protections that

2318
02:02:21,480 --> 02:02:25,080
Speaker 14: has caused homelessness to rise to the highest level in

2319
02:02:25,160 --> 02:02:26,640
Speaker 14: recorded history.

2320
02:02:26,800 --> 02:02:29,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's really a perfect storm that spells

2321
02:02:29,600 --> 02:02:33,120
Speaker 2: disaster for these families because you have years of wage stagnation,

2322
02:02:33,920 --> 02:02:36,600
Speaker 2: years of attacks on unions, you know, and fits in

2323
02:02:36,640 --> 02:02:40,360
Speaker 2: with the conversations we've been having about de industrialization, and

2324
02:02:40,640 --> 02:02:45,080
Speaker 2: you know the fact that it is so difficult to

2325
02:02:45,200 --> 02:02:48,560
Speaker 2: earn a living wage in this country, and then you

2326
02:02:48,640 --> 02:02:53,880
Speaker 2: add to that skyrocketing rents, skyrocketing housing costs, and you

2327
02:02:54,000 --> 02:02:57,600
Speaker 2: have utter disaster for so many families that are trying

2328
02:02:57,640 --> 02:03:01,080
Speaker 2: to do everything right. You know that are they're working hard,

2329
02:03:01,480 --> 02:03:04,360
Speaker 2: they're trying to, you know, follow the playbook of how

2330
02:03:04,400 --> 02:03:06,520
Speaker 2: you get in a head in America, and it just

2331
02:03:06,680 --> 02:03:10,280
Speaker 2: doesn't work for so many people. Now, you know, I

2332
02:03:10,360 --> 02:03:12,520
Speaker 2: was curious as I was reading the book. I'm sure

2333
02:03:12,560 --> 02:03:16,360
Speaker 2: you've been watching some of the discourse about the abundance agenda,

2334
02:03:16,920 --> 02:03:19,880
Speaker 2: and you know how one of the factors that has

2335
02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:23,400
Speaker 2: led to housing on affordability is too many owners, zoning

2336
02:03:23,480 --> 02:03:26,320
Speaker 2: regulations and the way that's limited construction or made it

2337
02:03:26,360 --> 02:03:30,240
Speaker 2: so that it's you know, there's less affordable housing available.

2338
02:03:30,280 --> 02:03:33,360
Speaker 2: I just was curious, based on your reporting with these

2339
02:03:33,360 --> 02:03:35,920
Speaker 2: individuals and the dynamics that go into the housing market,

2340
02:03:36,280 --> 02:03:38,440
Speaker 2: how much of a fix some of that you think

2341
02:03:38,480 --> 02:03:39,040
Speaker 2: really would be.

2342
02:03:40,160 --> 02:03:40,640
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2343
02:03:40,760 --> 02:03:44,480
Speaker 14: I mean I take a kind of ecumenical approach to

2344
02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:49,160
Speaker 14: solutions and how we can finally solve this this mounting catastrophe.

2345
02:03:49,280 --> 02:03:52,080
Speaker 8: I think we need a kind of both and approach.

2346
02:03:52,560 --> 02:03:56,880
Speaker 14: But I do think that simply like deregulating the market,

2347
02:03:56,960 --> 02:03:59,440
Speaker 14: letting the market do its thing, cutting the red tape

2348
02:03:59,840 --> 02:04:04,400
Speaker 14: and really allowing the private market to sort of, you know,

2349
02:04:04,680 --> 02:04:08,200
Speaker 14: provide for the housing needs of Americans who need it,

2350
02:04:08,240 --> 02:04:09,200
Speaker 14: is not adequate.

2351
02:04:09,320 --> 02:04:12,480
Speaker 8: I think what some of that discourse maybe leaves.

2352
02:04:12,200 --> 02:04:15,240
Speaker 14: Out is power, the question of power, who has it,

2353
02:04:15,560 --> 02:04:19,920
Speaker 14: who doesn't have it, the immense power asymmetry that exists

2354
02:04:19,960 --> 02:04:23,120
Speaker 14: in this country between the renter class and those who

2355
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:26,240
Speaker 14: are fortunate enough to own property and to be landlords.

2356
02:04:26,640 --> 02:04:28,640
Speaker 8: And also I think what's missing is just.

2357
02:04:28,680 --> 02:04:34,280
Speaker 14: How incredibly profitable all this insecurity has become, not just

2358
02:04:34,400 --> 02:04:38,160
Speaker 14: for you know, nimby homeowners who don't want an affordable

2359
02:04:38,200 --> 02:04:41,960
Speaker 14: housing complex built near their you know, neighborhood, but how

2360
02:04:42,040 --> 02:04:45,000
Speaker 14: profitable it's become for some of the most you know,

2361
02:04:45,600 --> 02:04:49,520
Speaker 14: influential and powerful Walsh Street firms in this country. I

2362
02:04:49,680 --> 02:04:53,000
Speaker 14: was absolutely shocked to discover that at every step in

2363
02:04:53,040 --> 02:04:55,880
Speaker 14: these families journeys, the five families who I follow in

2364
02:04:55,880 --> 02:05:00,600
Speaker 14: this book, there were entire business models designed to capitalize

2365
02:05:00,680 --> 02:05:04,440
Speaker 14: on their precarity. And that's not only the private equity

2366
02:05:04,480 --> 02:05:07,840
Speaker 14: firms like Celeste Landlord who are buying up vast swaths

2367
02:05:08,240 --> 02:05:12,280
Speaker 14: of America's rental housing and really making that housing much

2368
02:05:12,360 --> 02:05:16,080
Speaker 14: much more insecure, pushing people out through these automated eviction

2369
02:05:16,280 --> 02:05:19,720
Speaker 14: systems and algorithms that determine, you know, that someone just

2370
02:05:19,720 --> 02:05:22,040
Speaker 14: gets an eviction filing if they're two days later on

2371
02:05:22,080 --> 02:05:25,200
Speaker 14: their rent and there's no human to interact with, not

2372
02:05:25,240 --> 02:05:28,720
Speaker 14: only pushing people out of their housing, but increasingly buying

2373
02:05:28,760 --> 02:05:32,120
Speaker 14: up the very sites and places where families and individuals

2374
02:05:32,160 --> 02:05:35,280
Speaker 14: are pushed into once they become homeless. And nowhere is

2375
02:05:35,320 --> 02:05:38,600
Speaker 14: that truer than with this phenomenon of extended stay hotels.

2376
02:05:39,000 --> 02:05:41,839
Speaker 14: It's an entire world of homelessness that we're not seeing.

2377
02:05:42,320 --> 02:05:45,600
Speaker 14: And you know, during the pandemic, Blackstone and star Ward Capital,

2378
02:05:45,640 --> 02:05:50,000
Speaker 14: these two private equity giants, they saw that that Extended

2379
02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:54,280
Speaker 14: Stay America was raking in hundreds of millions of dollars

2380
02:05:54,520 --> 02:05:57,640
Speaker 14: while all other hotels were at like zero occupancy, and

2381
02:05:57,680 --> 02:06:01,480
Speaker 14: they spent six billion dollars buying this because they saw

2382
02:06:01,600 --> 02:06:04,839
Speaker 14: that these hotels are concentrated in areas of our country

2383
02:06:05,040 --> 02:06:08,560
Speaker 14: we're working people are most likely to become homeless and

2384
02:06:08,600 --> 02:06:12,520
Speaker 14: to lose stable housing. And so you have entire business models,

2385
02:06:12,640 --> 02:06:18,040
Speaker 14: very powerful business models, that are actively exacerbating and really

2386
02:06:18,360 --> 02:06:20,680
Speaker 14: profiting off of this this insecurity.

2387
02:06:21,520 --> 02:06:25,280
Speaker 3: Are there examples of communities or policies that have dealt

2388
02:06:25,360 --> 02:06:29,760
Speaker 3: with this in a constructive way? Are there, you know,

2389
02:06:30,280 --> 02:06:32,400
Speaker 3: things that we can point to and say, you know, look,

2390
02:06:32,480 --> 02:06:34,560
Speaker 3: this does work, this community used it.

2391
02:06:35,280 --> 02:06:38,120
Speaker 4: You know, to some success. What do you make of that?

2392
02:06:39,200 --> 02:06:41,640
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean, I think as far as like if

2393
02:06:41,680 --> 02:06:45,600
Speaker 14: we really open the lens on this crisis. And you know,

2394
02:06:45,640 --> 02:06:47,480
Speaker 14: one of the big things I'm trying to show in

2395
02:06:47,520 --> 02:06:51,040
Speaker 14: the book is that the official numbers on homelessness, as

2396
02:06:51,120 --> 02:06:53,920
Speaker 14: bad as they are, and again we had over the

2397
02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:56,920
Speaker 14: last two years the highest level of homelessness on record.

2398
02:06:57,440 --> 02:07:00,560
Speaker 14: As bad as those official numbers are, the reality is

2399
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:02,480
Speaker 14: actually much much worse.

2400
02:07:02,560 --> 02:07:04,000
Speaker 8: It's exponentially worse.

2401
02:07:04,040 --> 02:07:06,600
Speaker 14: And I estimate that it's that the actual number is

2402
02:07:06,720 --> 02:07:09,400
Speaker 14: roughly six times that of the official number. And the

2403
02:07:09,440 --> 02:07:12,760
Speaker 14: reason I say that is because once we get a

2404
02:07:12,800 --> 02:07:16,560
Speaker 14: sense of the true severity and magnitude and crucially the

2405
02:07:16,640 --> 02:07:21,920
Speaker 14: actual root causes of this homelessness catastrophe, we realize that

2406
02:07:21,920 --> 02:07:24,560
Speaker 14: that the kind of nibbling around the edges solutions that

2407
02:07:24,600 --> 02:07:27,520
Speaker 14: are often floated will simply not be enough. And a

2408
02:07:27,600 --> 02:07:29,960
Speaker 14: huge thing is keeping people in the homes.

2409
02:07:29,720 --> 02:07:30,520
Speaker 8: They already have.

2410
02:07:31,200 --> 02:07:33,880
Speaker 14: And you know, I think I've been disabused in the

2411
02:07:33,920 --> 02:07:37,160
Speaker 14: process of reporting this book of the notion that, like,

2412
02:07:37,960 --> 02:07:39,920
Speaker 14: if this is solved, it's going to be because some

2413
02:07:39,960 --> 02:07:43,440
Speaker 14: policy maker in Washington or at state level wakes up

2414
02:07:43,440 --> 02:07:46,600
Speaker 14: and is like, I'm going to he's the suffering for

2415
02:07:47,000 --> 02:07:50,400
Speaker 14: these people. Some of the most promising trends that we're

2416
02:07:50,400 --> 02:07:53,400
Speaker 14: seeing is the emergence of a really powerful and vibrant

2417
02:07:53,640 --> 02:07:59,080
Speaker 14: tenant rights movement across the country, people organizing in their buildings,

2418
02:07:59,360 --> 02:08:03,040
Speaker 14: in their run properties and saying this is intolerable, We're

2419
02:08:03,040 --> 02:08:04,720
Speaker 14: not going to stand for it. And in cities like

2420
02:08:04,800 --> 02:08:07,760
Speaker 14: Kansas City, we had the emergence of casey tenants over

2421
02:08:07,800 --> 02:08:13,240
Speaker 14: the last several years that has demanded large scale policy shifts.

2422
02:08:13,280 --> 02:08:15,920
Speaker 14: And I think that's the most promising thing we have

2423
02:08:16,040 --> 02:08:19,800
Speaker 14: right now that this is going If solutions come, they're

2424
02:08:19,800 --> 02:08:21,600
Speaker 14: going to come from those who are closest to the

2425
02:08:21,640 --> 02:08:25,120
Speaker 14: problem and those who are directly impacted and their neighbors

2426
02:08:25,160 --> 02:08:27,640
Speaker 14: who simply say, you know, like, we're not going to

2427
02:08:27,680 --> 02:08:30,760
Speaker 14: allow millions of people to be the casualties of our

2428
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:34,760
Speaker 14: city's renaissance, of our city's success and growth, Because that's

2429
02:08:34,760 --> 02:08:37,720
Speaker 14: another dynamic. All of these people are losing their housing

2430
02:08:38,320 --> 02:08:40,680
Speaker 14: not in the midst of like poverty, but in the

2431
02:08:40,720 --> 02:08:45,000
Speaker 14: midst of mounting prosperity in cities like Atlanta, Nashville. So

2432
02:08:45,120 --> 02:08:47,360
Speaker 14: that's really what I see as most right now.

2433
02:08:47,720 --> 02:08:51,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have this mass inequality too, where you know,

2434
02:08:51,640 --> 02:08:53,720
Speaker 2: in these cities you need the people who are going

2435
02:08:53,800 --> 02:08:55,720
Speaker 2: to work at McDonald's, who are going to do the

2436
02:08:56,160 --> 02:08:58,440
Speaker 2: uber eats or the door dash you need, you know,

2437
02:08:58,600 --> 02:09:02,080
Speaker 2: given that's the economic system system we apparently have. You

2438
02:09:02,200 --> 02:09:07,120
Speaker 2: need that working class, but you increasingly have completely priced

2439
02:09:07,120 --> 02:09:09,120
Speaker 2: the amount of housing and then you don't have you know,

2440
02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:12,760
Speaker 2: I know, Atlanta's notorious for not having sufficient public transit

2441
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:16,080
Speaker 2: also so that people can actually you know, conveniently commute

2442
02:09:16,120 --> 02:09:21,200
Speaker 2: in and you know, speaking to some of that gentrification aspect,

2443
02:09:21,560 --> 02:09:23,680
Speaker 2: one of the families I'm blanking on the name of

2444
02:09:23,680 --> 02:09:26,800
Speaker 2: the woman that you focus on. One of them had

2445
02:09:27,000 --> 02:09:30,200
Speaker 2: lived previously and grown up in Atlanta in a public

2446
02:09:30,200 --> 02:09:33,240
Speaker 2: housing project and actually have very fond memories of that

2447
02:09:33,640 --> 02:09:36,960
Speaker 2: public housing project and what life was like there. Those

2448
02:09:37,040 --> 02:09:41,840
Speaker 2: were demolished and then I believe what happened is they

2449
02:09:41,880 --> 02:09:46,000
Speaker 2: built some replacement that was like mixed income housing, but

2450
02:09:46,040 --> 02:09:50,080
Speaker 2: never sufficient to replace the number of units that it

2451
02:09:50,200 --> 02:09:53,880
Speaker 2: previously been lost. And so I wonder what we can

2452
02:09:53,960 --> 02:09:57,680
Speaker 2: learn from that dynamic and the way that you know,

2453
02:09:57,800 --> 02:10:02,800
Speaker 2: this kind of like well intentioned reform movement ultimately exacerbated

2454
02:10:02,880 --> 02:10:06,320
Speaker 2: the issue of a housing crisis for people in the city.

2455
02:10:06,880 --> 02:10:08,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's a great question.

2456
02:10:08,240 --> 02:10:11,120
Speaker 14: I mean, I think through Britt's story, Britt is the

2457
02:10:11,160 --> 02:10:13,280
Speaker 14: name of the person that you were just referencing. Through

2458
02:10:13,280 --> 02:10:16,280
Speaker 14: her story, I mean, you kind of get American housing

2459
02:10:16,320 --> 02:10:20,040
Speaker 14: policy in the life of one one single family, one

2460
02:10:20,040 --> 02:10:22,520
Speaker 14: single individual. And like you said, she grew up in

2461
02:10:22,560 --> 02:10:26,280
Speaker 14: public housing. She was determined to make Atlanta her home,

2462
02:10:26,400 --> 02:10:28,560
Speaker 14: to make a home for herself and her kids in

2463
02:10:28,600 --> 02:10:30,920
Speaker 14: the city. And she has this line like this city

2464
02:10:31,000 --> 02:10:34,560
Speaker 14: is just mine, as is just as much mine as anyone's,

2465
02:10:34,600 --> 02:10:37,560
Speaker 14: Like I'm not going anywhere. But the title of the

2466
02:10:37,560 --> 02:10:40,440
Speaker 14: book comes from Britt, there is no place for us,

2467
02:10:40,480 --> 02:10:43,360
Speaker 14: because she realizes that the city that she's.

2468
02:10:43,200 --> 02:10:44,120
Speaker 8: Given everything to.

2469
02:10:44,520 --> 02:10:47,920
Speaker 14: You know, Brett works at the airport when the book begins,

2470
02:10:47,960 --> 02:10:50,760
Speaker 14: she's working at, you know, a place that's like the

2471
02:10:50,800 --> 02:10:54,000
Speaker 14: pride and joy of Atlanta's economy, the busiest airport in

2472
02:10:54,040 --> 02:10:54,520
Speaker 14: the world.

2473
02:10:55,040 --> 02:10:56,680
Speaker 8: And I think it's important.

2474
02:10:56,280 --> 02:10:58,880
Speaker 14: To note that one of the most perverse things that

2475
02:10:58,920 --> 02:11:02,280
Speaker 14: this book documents is that the working homeless, these are

2476
02:11:02,320 --> 02:11:05,320
Speaker 14: not people on the fringes of society. They are the

2477
02:11:05,360 --> 02:11:09,760
Speaker 14: people whose labor, whose bodies are powering the very growth

2478
02:11:10,080 --> 02:11:13,520
Speaker 14: that again, perversely is not just pushing them out of

2479
02:11:13,520 --> 02:11:16,160
Speaker 14: the neighborhoods they grew up in, but pushing them out

2480
02:11:16,160 --> 02:11:20,960
Speaker 14: of housing stable housing altogether. And you know, the policies

2481
02:11:21,080 --> 02:11:24,600
Speaker 14: that emerged in the in the absence of public housing.

2482
02:11:24,640 --> 02:11:27,760
Speaker 14: Once all the public housing in Atlanta was demolished because

2483
02:11:27,800 --> 02:11:30,240
Speaker 14: Atlanta was the first city in the country to build

2484
02:11:30,280 --> 02:11:32,240
Speaker 14: public housing in the thirties, and it was the first

2485
02:11:32,280 --> 02:11:35,400
Speaker 14: city in the country to sort of undertake this neoliberal

2486
02:11:35,480 --> 02:11:40,240
Speaker 14: experiment in demolishing it, demolishing public housing and turning to

2487
02:11:40,280 --> 02:11:43,160
Speaker 14: the private market through vouchers and through other you know,

2488
02:11:43,320 --> 02:11:47,280
Speaker 14: incentivizing private development to fill that need. And Britt's story

2489
02:11:47,360 --> 02:11:50,920
Speaker 14: is are really tragic example of how how much that

2490
02:11:51,000 --> 02:11:55,120
Speaker 14: promise has failed, and ultimately her story is an example

2491
02:11:55,520 --> 02:11:59,560
Speaker 14: of how we need just a radical paradigm shift in

2492
02:11:59,640 --> 02:12:03,080
Speaker 14: how we think about housing in this country. Like housing

2493
02:12:03,480 --> 02:12:06,720
Speaker 14: is as it's currently conceived, it's just auctioned off to.

2494
02:12:06,720 --> 02:12:07,600
Speaker 8: The highest bidder.

2495
02:12:08,280 --> 02:12:10,840
Speaker 14: We've you know, one caseworker in the book refers to

2496
02:12:10,880 --> 02:12:14,400
Speaker 14: it as the housing Hunger Games. And what we've done

2497
02:12:14,600 --> 02:12:18,640
Speaker 14: is we've said this essential human need is going to

2498
02:12:18,760 --> 02:12:20,640
Speaker 14: be you know that people are just going to be

2499
02:12:20,680 --> 02:12:22,800
Speaker 14: at the mercy of a market that may or may

2500
02:12:22,840 --> 02:12:26,280
Speaker 14: not have an incentive to keep them housed. And if

2501
02:12:26,360 --> 02:12:30,160
Speaker 14: rents skyrocket past the rate of inflation, so be it.

2502
02:12:30,240 --> 02:12:32,840
Speaker 14: We need a different approach where we start to treat

2503
02:12:32,880 --> 02:12:35,920
Speaker 14: housing the way we do like public education, where we

2504
02:12:36,080 --> 02:12:39,320
Speaker 14: just say this is a basic part of being in

2505
02:12:39,360 --> 02:12:42,800
Speaker 14: this country. We're going to guarantee it for everybody. And

2506
02:12:43,000 --> 02:12:45,040
Speaker 14: there was a time when we had that vision as

2507
02:12:45,040 --> 02:12:48,080
Speaker 14: a country, and there are pure nations who have implemented

2508
02:12:48,080 --> 02:12:51,839
Speaker 14: that vision. It's not this utopian, you know, radical ideal.

2509
02:12:52,600 --> 02:12:53,920
Speaker 6: That's that's exactly right.

2510
02:12:54,240 --> 02:12:56,720
Speaker 2: Well, the book it will break your heart if you

2511
02:12:56,800 --> 02:12:59,080
Speaker 2: read it, will absolutely break your heart. But I really

2512
02:12:59,080 --> 02:13:02,600
Speaker 2: recommend it to people because you have so many examples

2513
02:13:02,720 --> 02:13:05,000
Speaker 2: of you know, people who they win what they consider

2514
02:13:05,040 --> 02:13:07,240
Speaker 2: as like the lottery, they get the voucher to be

2515
02:13:07,320 --> 02:13:10,360
Speaker 2: able to help them afford you know, housing, and just

2516
02:13:10,560 --> 02:13:14,680
Speaker 2: how that process is all but you know, fraught with

2517
02:13:14,760 --> 02:13:18,240
Speaker 2: insecurity and no guarantees and creates this housing hunger game

2518
02:13:18,320 --> 02:13:20,920
Speaker 2: situation you're talking about. You go through some of that

2519
02:13:21,120 --> 02:13:23,840
Speaker 2: history and just the dynamics that that people are really

2520
02:13:24,040 --> 02:13:26,280
Speaker 2: dealing with on a granular scale, very much reminded me

2521
02:13:26,320 --> 02:13:30,080
Speaker 2: of the work of Barbara Aaron Reich, so highly recommend

2522
02:13:30,080 --> 02:13:33,360
Speaker 2: it to people. And Brian, thank you so much for

2523
02:13:33,520 --> 02:13:36,360
Speaker 2: taking some time both to explore this issue, which I

2524
02:13:36,360 --> 02:13:38,920
Speaker 2: do think that is there's a complete blind spot in

2525
02:13:39,000 --> 02:13:41,360
Speaker 2: society for and also to join us today and help

2526
02:13:41,440 --> 02:13:42,440
Speaker 2: us understand your work.

2527
02:13:42,840 --> 02:13:44,640
Speaker 8: Thank you so much. It's really meant a lot to

2528
02:13:44,680 --> 02:13:45,040
Speaker 8: talk to you.

2529
02:13:45,560 --> 02:13:47,040
Speaker 6: Our pleasure, Crystal.

2530
02:13:47,160 --> 02:13:50,520
Speaker 3: That was depressing, but I think a very important discussion.

2531
02:13:50,720 --> 02:13:53,200
Speaker 3: Thanks for bringing my guest to us and for being

2532
02:13:53,200 --> 02:13:53,680
Speaker 3: here today.

2533
02:13:54,240 --> 02:13:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, my pleasure as always. And yeah that I really

2534
02:13:57,320 --> 02:14:01,040
Speaker 2: genuinely recommend the book, even though it will absolutely break

2535
02:14:01,080 --> 02:14:03,600
Speaker 2: your heart multiple times as you read it, but it's

2536
02:14:03,600 --> 02:14:05,880
Speaker 2: so important to understand what's going on in this country.

2537
02:14:05,880 --> 02:14:08,040
Speaker 2: And Emily, always a pleasure to get to chat with you.

2538
02:14:08,080 --> 02:14:11,760
Speaker 2: And guys, I'll be in like normal with Sager tomorrow

2539
02:14:11,800 --> 02:14:14,200
Speaker 2: in the studio, so I will see you then. And

2540
02:14:14,240 --> 02:14:16,880
Speaker 2: then oh, one last thing, we made it official. Friday

2541
02:14:16,880 --> 02:14:20,320
Speaker 2: Show is now every week every Friday. We're committing to it.

2542
02:14:20,360 --> 02:14:23,480
Speaker 2: We're doing the thing so and with a bonus second

2543
02:14:23,520 --> 02:14:25,680
Speaker 2: half that's just for premium subscribers. So thank you guys

2544
02:14:25,720 --> 02:14:28,040
Speaker 2: so much for supporting us and making that possible.

2545
02:14:28,280 --> 02:14:32,120
Speaker 3: We'll see if Sager decides to show up fingers crossed.

2546
02:14:32,560 --> 02:14:35,920
Speaker 2: Well, as everybody learned, he's got some things going on

2547
02:14:36,040 --> 02:14:36,960
Speaker 2: right now, so.

2548
02:14:39,600 --> 02:14:41,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, he is more than forgiven.

2549
02:14:41,600 --> 02:14:43,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the two of us are always happy to

2550
02:14:43,320 --> 02:14:46,360
Speaker 3: slum it with Ryan. So we will see everyone on

2551
02:14:46,640 --> 02:14:49,880
Speaker 3: Friday for that show. Breakingpoints dot com for a premium

2552
02:14:49,880 --> 02:14:52,520
Speaker 3: membership if you want that second half otherwise

2553
02:14:52,560 --> 02:15:00,600
Speaker 4: We'll be back here with more tomorrow