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Speaker 1: And you're not winning enough, You're going to go back

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Speaker 1: to like I was told this, and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: complain about this. I'm angry about it. Listen, they're light

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Speaker 1: years ahead of where they were a decade ago. Welcome

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Speaker 1: into north Side Territory File Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We're your Cubs

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Speaker 1: beat writers at the Athletic and Patrick, we are now

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Speaker 1: on YouTube. Not only are we like these are the

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Speaker 1: faces that Craig Council gets to stare at for over

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Speaker 1: three hundred times a summer. Like, what a delight for

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Speaker 1: the fans to experience this. I know you're all thrilled

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Speaker 1: to see us now, to watch us discuss this Cubs offseason.

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Speaker 1: And we have a mail bag to kick it off.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's favorite.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we love hearing from our listeners and readers the

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Speaker 2: positive en negative feedback and shout out to all our friends,

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Speaker 2: the Foul Territory Network behind the scenes. I mean, those

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Speaker 2: people work like twenty four to seven. They got like

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Speaker 2: just an endless supply of shows that they got to

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Speaker 2: get through and they've been a big help on this here.

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Speaker 2: So yes, it should be exciting. I think we'll have

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Speaker 2: some more guests and stuff on the horizon as well.

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Speaker 2: We're still figuring out some of the technology here, so

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Speaker 2: just bear with us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if I screw up, you know, don't yell at me.

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Speaker 1: Don't be too angry. I'll try try and get this right.

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Speaker 1: If I forget, I'm on video and walk away to

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Speaker 1: let my dogs out, don't freak out, all right, Patrick,

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Speaker 1: Let's get right to the questions. First one is from

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Speaker 1: E Gawna. I put the Twitter names on here so

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Speaker 1: I may screw these up. I know the Cardinals likely

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Speaker 1: won't trade them within the division, but how have the

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Speaker 1: Cubs missed out on Sunny Gray all these years? Seems

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Speaker 1: like the perfect fit for Chicago. What do you think?

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Speaker 1: I think, Patrick, I'll take the first half of this one.

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Speaker 2: I know you have some thoughts on the second half.

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Speaker 2: Our colleague got the athletic Katie Wu does a great

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Speaker 2: job covering the Cardinals. Has reported that Sonny Gray does

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Speaker 2: not want to waive his no trade clause even as

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Speaker 2: the Cardinals go through this rebuild, that he picked Saint

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Speaker 2: Louis for several reasons close to home. He's I believe

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Speaker 2: a Vanderbilt, Tennessee guy and wants to see it through

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Speaker 2: whatever is happening at Push Stadium there. And this is

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Speaker 2: a funny name. It kind of goes back to when

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Speaker 2: the Cubs hired Derek Johnson, who's since gone on to

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Speaker 2: become a well regarded major league pitching coach, but he

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Speaker 2: was a minor league, I believe coordinator with the Cubs.

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Speaker 2: He's very close with Jed Theo and Jason McLeod and

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Speaker 2: I feel like there was so little going on at

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Speaker 2: the major league level. It became connecting the dots of oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the Cubs are going to go after Sonny Gray, like

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Speaker 2: they've got his you know, old pitching coach from Vanderbilt

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Speaker 2: already working there, but as it turns out, maybe not

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Speaker 2: the most perfect fit for Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, like I don't want to label guy

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Speaker 1: like can't handle the big city or you never know

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Speaker 1: what's going on inside a guy's head. But Sonny Gray

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Speaker 1: is unique. He's a you know, he likes his routine,

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Speaker 1: he likes the he likes specific things. He likes to

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Speaker 1: go about things in his own way, right, And and

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Speaker 1: that's that's fine, that's a you know, it's led to

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Speaker 1: a really strong career. I think he'd be great for

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Speaker 1: the Cubs. I'm not sure if he is the most

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Speaker 1: comfortable in big cities now. His worst season, and it's

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Speaker 1: not really close, was in his full his first full

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Speaker 1: season with the Yankees, just a really bad season. It

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Speaker 1: didn't seem comfortable. Immediately left for Cincinnati and turned back

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Speaker 1: into the pitcher. It maybe had his best season. It

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Speaker 1: was almost immediate turnaround at the age of twenty nine. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you know, look at look at his career Oakland Yankees, right,

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Speaker 1: and then Cincinnati, Minnesota, Saint Louis. Those are smaller markets.

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Speaker 1: It seems like he's more comfortable there. That's what he prefers. Uh.

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Speaker 1: If that's what he prefers, that, that's great. That's where

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Speaker 1: he'll thrive. He knows himself, he knows what he wants. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I think he'd be I agree with the ultimate point

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, he'd be a good fit for

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Speaker 1: the Cubs. I think he's a good leader. I think

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Speaker 1: he's a good pitcher. I just don't think he may

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Speaker 1: be a great fit for Chicago.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately the point you were making that Katie Wu

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Speaker 1: pointed out, it's it's moot like he's not coming here,

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Speaker 1: he's not getting he's first of all, he's not getting

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Speaker 1: traded to the Cubs. Saint Louis isn't doing that. Second

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Speaker 1: of all, it doesn't sound like he's getting traded or

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Speaker 1: wants to wave his no trade clause. I do think

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Speaker 1: there'd be a pretty strong market for him if if

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Speaker 1: that where to change, But it doesn't sound like that's

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Speaker 1: the case, all right, Toad.

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Speaker 2: If Cubs fan number two wants to know, what are

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Speaker 2: the organization's expectations for Pete crow Armstrong's bat heading into

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, Steamer has them just below a league.

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Speaker 1: Average hitter, all right, I think that's probably the expectation, right,

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Speaker 1: Like hovering around league average. Now, that's probably like pushing

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Speaker 1: three wins, if not more. I want to say so

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Speaker 1: his final two hundred and fifteen played appearances. I brought

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Speaker 1: this up one hundred and twenty three weighted runs created

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Speaker 1: plus that is with his defense. My guess would that

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Speaker 1: be around a six war player Like that's that's pretty elite.

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Speaker 1: That like you're you're on the periphery of MVP talk.

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Speaker 1: If you're an elite center fielder with a one twenty

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Speaker 1: way to run as great at plus. You start doing

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Speaker 1: better than that and you're you're not just on the periphery.

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Speaker 1: I don't think their expectation is for him to do

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Speaker 1: what he did the final two plus months. I think

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Speaker 1: that was a great sign that hey, this guy, this

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Speaker 1: guy is figuring some things out. He's getting better. It's

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Speaker 1: not the remember the mess that he was for the

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Speaker 1: first two and a half month. Offensively, like to the

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Speaker 1: point where when I talked to him, talked about him

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Speaker 1: to people in the ORG, it was like very obvious.

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Speaker 1: It's like I'd say, I bring up the obvious point

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Speaker 1: of like he's chasing too much? Oh yeah, you think so?

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Speaker 1: Like it was like it was all very obvious, right.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like what's going on with Pete? For Armstrong,

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Speaker 1: how do we figure it out? He needed to stop

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Speaker 1: chasing the breaking balls in at his feet were like

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Speaker 1: causing him fits. And he did. He figured it out.

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Speaker 1: He stopped chasing his much, he stops striking out as much.

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Speaker 1: He started swinging at better pitches and hitting the ball harder.

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Speaker 1: I actually think maybe that one twenty three way to

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Speaker 1: run scrade a plus was a little low, because I

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Speaker 1: remember a lot of balls getting knocked down for him

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Speaker 1: in at Wrigley. So you know, I expect that he's

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Speaker 1: going to have a really strong season. What what is that?

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Speaker 1: What does that end up being? Is that is that

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Speaker 1: you know, a hundred way to runs crede a plus

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Speaker 1: or one twenty or eighty. I think the expectation is

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Speaker 1: around league average. That's what I think the Cubs realistically expect.

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Speaker 1: What do they hope for? Obviously a lot more?

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, well, so I think it will be fascinating

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Speaker 2: to watch just how he comes into camp next year,

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Speaker 2: Like he impressed everyone with how he found a routine

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Speaker 2: and took to coaching and assimilated into the clubhouse. And

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm not saying that won't continue, but we've all

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Speaker 2: seen it happen before, right the sophomore jinks or whatever

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Speaker 2: you want to call it. It's a hard league. You

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Speaker 2: get a little success, maybe get a little comfortable. Not

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Speaker 2: saying that's going to happen to PCA, but it's certainly

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Speaker 2: something I think that has to be on everyone's radar,

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Speaker 2: while also leaving open the possibility, as you say that

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Speaker 2: maybe he just has this awesome, off the chart seasons

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Speaker 2: and the Cubs get that like six War Player that

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Speaker 2: they've been kind of pining for.

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Speaker 3: I love a great deal, but I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: run sprints in the outfield just to save a few bucks.

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Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, why aren't the Cubs in on Gary Crochet?

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Speaker 1: Are they not interested? Did they not match up well?

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Speaker 1: The Socks not deal with their crosstown rival. This is

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Speaker 1: from J. Madden's glasses.

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Speaker 2: I unless something dramatically has changed. I think we both heard,

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Speaker 2: like around the trade deadline and kind of entering the

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Speaker 2: off season, that the Cubs have like no sort of

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Speaker 2: expectations that the White Sox would deal Crochet to the

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Speaker 2: North Side. Is that.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they rule out trades with the Cubs.

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Speaker 1: I think an established potential ace type player like like

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Speaker 1: we could see smaller trades, maybe a challenge trade of

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Speaker 1: some sort, like prospect for prospect to fill gaps. I

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Speaker 1: just don't see like an impact player like Garrett Crochet

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Speaker 1: being sent to the Cubs from the White Sox, the

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Speaker 1: type of guy that could push their rotation from you know,

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Speaker 1: good to great Like I think that's bad business. I've

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Speaker 1: talked to plenty of people around the league that don't

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Speaker 1: like that concept. It's like, take the best deal, who

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Speaker 1: cares if you're if you believe in your evaluation skills

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Speaker 1: in your front office, like just take the deal. But

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's like a Chris Gets thing as

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Speaker 1: much as it may be an ownership thing. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is always we always run into this when talking

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Speaker 1: about Cubs White Sox. I think the Cubs paid a

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Speaker 1: premium to get Jose Kintana, right, this is just the

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Speaker 1: reality of dealing with the White Sox when you're the Cubs.

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Speaker 1: We heard rumblings about it. Our colleague Dan Hayes heard

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Speaker 1: rumblings about it when the Twins in White Sox. We're

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Speaker 1: talking trade, right, Like, I think there's in division and

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Speaker 1: the White Sox are quirky like that. It's not rare.

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Speaker 1: It happens, right, But but the White Sox I think

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Speaker 1: are a little extreme with it. I don't think the

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Speaker 1: Mets and Yankees have that same issue, not that they're

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Speaker 1: making trades all the time or anything like that, but

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Speaker 1: it's certainly it is an issue dealing within the city,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think you want I don't think the

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Speaker 1: White Sox wanted to deal a superstar. Potential superstar like

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Speaker 1: Crochet who was looking like a cy young candidate before

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Speaker 1: his innings kind of had to be ramped down. So

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Speaker 1: I think it's as simple as that right, not that

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Speaker 1: they aren't in not that they wouldn't be interested, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, our colleague get the athletic Will Salmon had a

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Speaker 2: good sort of explainer on what the White Sox are

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Speaker 2: looking for, and he covers the Mets and what the

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Speaker 2: Socks want is kind of what the Cubs have in

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Speaker 2: terms of position players.

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Speaker 4: They do have.

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Speaker 2: The White Sox, for all their faults, do have a

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Speaker 2: nice pipeline of pitching, you know, assuming guys stay healthy

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Speaker 2: and continue to send they need just every day types

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Speaker 2: to just clean up their offense and their defense. The

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Speaker 2: Cubs have that. They certainly be aware of what's going

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Speaker 2: on because, as our buddy John Greenberg has explained, like

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Speaker 2: Chris Getz and Jed Hoyer are friendly, they're neighbors. You know,

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Speaker 2: they're very likely to run into each other on a

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Speaker 2: regular basis, you know, whether it's kids stuff, Aaron's just

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Speaker 2: about town stuff like that, Like they're he'll be in

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Speaker 2: the know. But I all so think, as someone explained

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Speaker 2: to me once, like it's also sometimes hard to do

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Speaker 2: deals with people you are friendly with.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 2: We'll see, I would not I would not be hoping

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Speaker 2: for Garrett Crochet if you're a Cubs fan.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they match up perfectly, They match up

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Speaker 1: so well otherwise. Yeah, I mean the Cubs have some

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Speaker 1: things that like make a lot of sense to move

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Speaker 1: at this point in time that the White Sox would love,

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Speaker 1: Like Kevin Olcontra, James Trianto's like so much. There's so

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Speaker 1: like we could go on and on, like I think

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Speaker 1: it would make sense if they were the Angels or

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Speaker 1: you know, the Mariners or whatever instead of the White

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Speaker 1: Sox would probably be hammering this and and it's just

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Speaker 1: that's not the case. It's that's it's the reality of

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Speaker 1: the situation. Uh Is that is that my my turn? No?

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Speaker 1: Your turn? Go go ahead, Patrick, all.

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Speaker 2: Right, we got Cubes fan one wants to know.

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Speaker 1: That's a throwback to the old twitter, old Cubs Twitter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when the world's serious.

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Speaker 2: Are the Cubs feeling any pressure from a business ticketing

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Speaker 2: perspective heading into the off season.

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Speaker 1: That's Patrick. Maybe you you can answer this one better

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Speaker 1: than I. I mean, I think they're always feeling it.

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Speaker 1: There was more to this question that I couldn't throw

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Speaker 1: in because it went on too long, but he basically

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Speaker 1: said he's got his friends getting emails about single game

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Speaker 1: tickets and and like I think we've heard this through

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Speaker 1: other fans, like they're getting more emails, getting contacted more

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Speaker 1: about season tickets or or individual plans. So marketing's ramping

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Speaker 1: those things up. Is that a sign to you that

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Speaker 1: there's pressure on the that the business side is feeling pressure.

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Speaker 1: I know you have you know some people there, maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe you've heard some things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's that pressure is always there, but

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Speaker 2: it's not to a point where the Cubs are suddenly

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Speaker 2: going changed their model and like Tom Ricketts is going

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Speaker 2: to be telling Jed go sign Juan Soto, like if

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Speaker 2: that's what the questions getting at. I do think post

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, like not having that nineteen oh eight kind

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Speaker 2: of just kind of lessened the I don't know, the

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Speaker 2: overall experience, the kind of unifying spirit of that. I

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Speaker 2: think someone once said to me, like the best and

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Speaker 2: worst thing that could ever happen to the Cubs was

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Speaker 2: winning the World Series, because it would just take away

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Speaker 2: that that idea of this is the last great quest

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Speaker 2: in North American professional sports. But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: I think if you look across like I don't know

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Speaker 2: the world, like audiences are kind of splintering, like it's

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Speaker 2: you know, harder to kind of get people to capture

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Speaker 2: people's attention, and look like any sort of slump is relative.

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Speaker 2: When the Cubs drew almost three million fans for a

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Speaker 2: team that was slightly over five hundred and not all

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Speaker 2: that compelling in any way, and you see that their business,

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Speaker 2: like the baseball team is almost ancillary at this point.

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Speaker 2: You got Northwestern and Ohio State playing there the other day.

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Speaker 2: I believe your LINI are coming in after Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you got these.

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Speaker 2: Concerts that I believe are just easy money makers for them,

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Speaker 2: and so they'll continue to use Wrigley Field for all

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Speaker 2: these different events to keep the business humming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I don't think they're short on money,

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Speaker 1: but and I think that they push three million again, right,

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Speaker 1: and attendance even with that team like they're not they're

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Speaker 1: not struggling, but you yeah, I think they want to

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Speaker 1: break three million, right. That's when you know things are

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Speaker 1: going well. When the Cubs are breaking three million. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure I should do more research on that. As

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Speaker 1: far as post pandemic attendance numbers and if everything's back

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Speaker 1: fully to normal across the game, or if if if

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Speaker 1: there's just a natural depression there and a small percentage

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Speaker 1: of people still are hesitating to show up. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's the case two point seven or eight million.

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Speaker 2: I think it was two point nine.

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Speaker 1: And I mean we haven't even done.

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Speaker 2: I mean we haven't even gotten into, you know, Marquee

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Speaker 2: in the future of like regional sports networks, which are

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Speaker 2: right disappearing, Like that's a whole nother thing where I

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Speaker 2: think the Cubs are in better position than most teams,

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Speaker 2: But Marquee has not really reached their wildest hopes and

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Speaker 2: dreams when that from when that was launched. So you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a really kind of complicated, layered organization that clearly

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Speaker 2: you know, has a lot of stuff that to figure out.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's part of why you look at

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Speaker 2: the team that they're putting together, like ownership wants that

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Speaker 2: team that's just like in the hunt every year more

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Speaker 2: than like a team going all in for one or

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Speaker 2: two seasons to try to win the World Series. I

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Speaker 2: think from their business perspective, the best way to continue

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Speaker 2: growing the business is to just be in.

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Speaker 1: It, right And one way they can be in it

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Speaker 1: is this guy right here could be a big part

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Speaker 1: of that. Keep on hearing about Moys's by a sterius

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Speaker 1: being offensively ready but not defensively. Is comparing him to

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Speaker 1: Kyle Schwarber as a prospect reasonable? That's from Brian Deal.

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Speaker 1: What do you think, Patrick?

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Speaker 2: I think it's not totally off base in terms of

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Speaker 2: at this point, the Cubs do not expect Moises to

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Speaker 2: be in everyday catcher. We've talked about this hope of

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Speaker 2: maybe he could be a third catcher DH. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if they'd even consider first base or the outfield

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Speaker 2: at this point, but if he could do some of

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Speaker 2: those things and maybe pair up with a pitcher whatever,

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Speaker 2: that could be really valuable. I think the way they

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Speaker 2: talk about him is similar to Schwarbro of just like, dude,

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Speaker 2: this guy's gonna rake. I think that's That's kind of

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Speaker 2: my main takeaway.

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Speaker 1: What do you think? Right? I talked to a scout

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Speaker 1: about this recently just to get some better idea about

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Speaker 1: what type of offensive profile he projects to be, and

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Speaker 1: what I came away from that conversation was feeling like

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Speaker 1: this is more batting average than Schwarber, not the what

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Speaker 1: you'd say, like on a twenty eighty scale, Schwarber's at

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Speaker 1: like seventy power. This is probably like, this is above

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Speaker 1: average power still, especially as he grew like continues to

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Speaker 1: learn to like what to swing at. And when there

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Speaker 1: was I there was a slight uptick in strikeouts. So

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Speaker 1: I asked the scout, can you dig into your system?

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Speaker 1: Tell me what? Are there any alarm belts going off

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Speaker 1: when you look at that. Oh, he's facing more advanced pitching.

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Speaker 1: And this is why it's happening. When he gets to

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Speaker 1: the majors, it's gonna spike even more. And when I

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Speaker 1: say there was a slight spike, I'm saying this guy

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Speaker 1: struck out at like a fourteen thirteen percent rate for

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Speaker 1: most of his career and then went up to twenty

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Speaker 1: something percent twenty one percent at triple A. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's still really good. If he strikes out at twenty

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Speaker 1: one percent rate at the major league level, that's great.

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Speaker 1: And it was a smaller sample size, of course, is

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Speaker 1: triple A numbers. He said what was happening was he

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Speaker 1: was chasing more against quality lefties. He's like, that's a wash.

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Speaker 1: He's like that's normal. He's like, he's like, you you can't.

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Speaker 1: That'd be nitpicking, and this is a scout for another team.

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Speaker 1: So he's like, he's like this, He's like, this is

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Speaker 1: not something you should overreact to. Really quality offensive talent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if I'm comparing him to Schwarber, it's that it's significantly

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Speaker 1: offense over defense. But I don't think they're exactly the

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Speaker 1: same when it comes I don't don't expect like, you know,

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Speaker 1: forty fifty home run seasons here, but high batting average,

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Speaker 1: quality at bats power when when he learns to really hit,

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Speaker 1: like really what to swing at? You know, I just think,

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Speaker 1: like this guy has you know, there's there's potential special

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Speaker 1: offensive upside, and I think the Cubs are excited about him.

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Speaker 1: There was a question about untouchable prospects that I didn't include.

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Speaker 1: I thought we would be pushing time, But I can

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Speaker 1: quickly say that I don't think he's untouchable, and I

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Speaker 1: don't think there's any untouchable prospect, but he'd probably be

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Speaker 1: soon after, like in the list that I would include

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Speaker 1: with like Matt Shaw and maybe Kate Horton of like

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Speaker 1: they don't want to move these guys, and probably cam

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Speaker 1: Smith right because they just drafted him, and I think

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Speaker 1: he probably has just what I saw from two and

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Speaker 1: a half months and talking to scouts like, oh, maybe

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Speaker 1: this is their best prospect a year from now, but

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Speaker 1: that's that's a year from now. Let's we don't need

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Speaker 1: to dive into that. I'm just saying, if I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at the prospects, those are the guys that I there's

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Speaker 1: so many of them that maybe I miss someone, but

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Speaker 1: I think that's right. Matt Shaw, Biasteros and Kate Horton

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Speaker 1: would be the ones that it's like, you'd have to

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Speaker 1: be including a superstar or something, have to be an

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Speaker 1: insane trade that that's not really on our radar right now.

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Speaker 2: All right, Oh this is perfect for you. From chef

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Speaker 2: Kevin Penner. What happened to the Cubs air quotes, pitching infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: and pitch lab. Weren't they about to become a juggernaut

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Speaker 2: in pitching development a few years ago?

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 1: And so okay, I I think it's a fair question,

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Speaker 1: like in the sense that like they're not winning enough. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think that's the bigger problem. When you're not winning enough,

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Speaker 1: you're going to go back to like I was told this,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna complain about this. I'm angry about it. Listen,

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Speaker 1: they're light years ahead of where they were a decade ago,

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Speaker 1: just light years there was like I've written so much

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Speaker 1: about the good and the bad of their pitching development

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Speaker 1: over the past decade, and it was bad. They weren't

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Speaker 1: developing anyone. Like the names are like, you know, Rob's

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Speaker 1: disus me, who's back? James Norwood, like these are the

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Speaker 1: guys that were coming up and getting Michael Rucker like

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Speaker 1: not like yeah, guys that get a cup of coffee

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Speaker 1: or you know, maybe develop into decent relievers, but nothing impactful.

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Speaker 1: Justin Steele is home grown, and he made real changes

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Speaker 1: underneath you know, this pitching infrastructure that was spearheaded by

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Speaker 1: Craig Breslow and is you know, continuing under Jason Kansler

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Speaker 1: is now in charge of player development. Right. They just

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Speaker 1: made a big hire that everyone on the internet is

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Speaker 1: freaking out about Tyler Zombro. We'll have to dig into

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Speaker 1: that and maybe maybe get some information on him and

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Speaker 1: how he's impacting player development. But I think he's impacting

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Speaker 1: pitching all over the place. Tommy Hatteby gets a lot

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Speaker 1: of credit in baseball circles and from pitchers for the

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Speaker 1: impact that he creates. I would point to this, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think you have Justin Steele. You have guys like

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Speaker 1: Hobby or a Sad. You have Jordan Wicks, Ben Brown,

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Speaker 1: Hayden Wisnesky. All got hurt last year right or were

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Speaker 1: ineffective in certain ways. Adbert al Zalai homegrown but got

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Speaker 1: hurt last year, Porter Hodge home grown late round draft pick.

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Speaker 1: They've used some of these pitchers to make trades Jackson, Ferris,

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Speaker 1: Ty Johnson to get Isach Paradis, who apparently is impactful,

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Speaker 1: like as far as a prospect wise, you know, value wise,

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Speaker 1: and they drafted him late. So I think there's something

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Speaker 1: to be said, like they've made real leaps. But remember this,

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Speaker 1: who are the ones that stand out around the league

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Speaker 1: LA Tampa Bay. How often are those guys injured? How

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Speaker 1: often do they do we hear about picturing injuries. So

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Speaker 1: these things go hand in hand. There's risk here. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if Ben Brown is going to come back,

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Speaker 1: be healthy and be impactful, but he certainly looked very

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Speaker 1: impactful and the Cubs made real changes with him. He

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Speaker 1: was developed by the Phillies, he came here, made some

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Speaker 1: real changes and is now you know, has the potential

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Speaker 1: to be an impactful either start or reliever. They've they've

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Speaker 1: improved their pitching significantly, just like I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit their pitching development has changed significantly. It's

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Speaker 1: not perfect. I don't know if there is an organization

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Speaker 1: that's perfect. Even Cleveland didn't develop a ton of starters

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Speaker 1: this season. But I think I think it's hard to

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Speaker 1: deny that they've made real steps. I think it's perfectly

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Speaker 1: fine for people to be upset about things just because

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Speaker 1: the team isn't winning enough, and I think that leads

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Speaker 1: to this. I think that's ultimately what happens when when

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Speaker 1: there's losing, when there's not enough winning, it leads to

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Speaker 1: questions like this. And I'm not I'm not getting on

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Speaker 1: chef Kevin Penner here. I just think it's it's a

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Speaker 1: perfectly fair question. I just think like it's important to

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Speaker 1: keep perspective here, and injuries are part of it all.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and I didn't even mention Kate Horten, who

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Speaker 1: they drafted. They identified and they've helped, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of clean some things up. I think we're going to

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Speaker 1: be hearing about more things like that. I do think

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Speaker 1: they're they're on the right path and they have been,

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Speaker 1: and we're seeing results. It's just completely different than what

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Speaker 1: we covered five, six, seven years ago.

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Speaker 2: One more quick thing beyond seeing those pitchers get healthy

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Speaker 2: and take the next steps in their careers, I'm also

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Speaker 2: curious to see what sort of impact Craig Council has

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Speaker 2: in this space, particularly after how well the Brewers have performed,

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Speaker 2: how they've taken guys who didn't really stick with the

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Speaker 2: Cubs and all of a sudden they're beating the Cubs.

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Speaker 2: Things like that, How the relievers they target and acquire

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Speaker 2: this offseason, how those young pitchers are deployed next season

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Speaker 2: as out getters. I think Councils fingerprints will be all

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Speaker 2: over this.

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Speaker 1: I completely agree. I'm curious to see how the bullpen

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Speaker 1: looks in April and May, right, or what bullpen moves

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Speaker 1: are made over the next couple of months, and then

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Speaker 1: how it looks when the season starts, Like do we

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Speaker 1: see significant different? Is in a positive way? All right? Patrick?

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Speaker 1: That wraps it up for us our first YouTube video podcast.

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Speaker 1: You guys get to stare at our beautiful faces. I

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Speaker 1: had a friend I was at a friends giving this

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00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: past weekend and a friend was asking how the podcast

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00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: was going, and I told him we're starting video and

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Speaker 1: he's like, who watches that? And I was like, sick,

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Speaker 1: sick Cubs fans, man Lee, and you guys are the

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Speaker 1: sickest of all Cubs fans. We appreciate you guys listening, watching,

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00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: doing all that you do to support us. It is

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00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: truly we do, truly do appreciate it. Make sure to rate,

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00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: review and subscribe. Subscribe on YouTube now that you're watching us,

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00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: it helps us out a lot. Subscribe to The Athletic.

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Speaker 1: We're Patrick and I are covering the Cubs all winter

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00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: long and beyond and yeah, all that good stuff. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: my computer's acting wonky, so I lost track of what

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Speaker 1: I was saying. Thanks ever Hope for listening. We appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Take care,