1 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts. 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: There are a couple of moments that just really stood 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 2: out to me because I was having almost like out 5 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 2: of body experiences. A lot of it for me was 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: just like the mental anguish and the anxiety and then 7 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 2: just being like kind of angry, you know, like no 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: one will talk to me about it because everyone's afraid 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 2: of dying. 10 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 3: My name is Eileen Murray. 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 2: I guess I've almost died twice, although I don't really 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: think of it that way because I'm still alive, and 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 2: I think people have these anchor moments that are critical. 14 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 3: In your life's journey. 15 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: Like being able to recall those anchor stories kind of 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 2: just like I think helps propel me forward and like, Okay, yeah, 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: I feel like should now, but remember that that was awesome. 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to a Live Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous 19 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: accounts of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives 20 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: were forever altered after having almost died. These are first 21 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: hand accounts of near death experiences and, more broadly, brushes 22 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: with death. Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share 23 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: these stories to remind us all of our shared human condition. 24 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: Please keep in mind these stories are true and maybe 25 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: triggering for some listener, and discretion is advised. 26 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 3: I'm in my mid thirties. 27 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: I'm at the top of my ultimate frisbee playing career. 28 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: I go to a tournament in Hawaii called the Kaimanaclassic 29 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 2: like ten fields across the street from a beach, surrounded 30 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: by mountains. Everybody's just in this joyous, beautiful location in Hawaii. 31 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: It's tremendously gorgeous, and you have like beautiful weather, and 32 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 2: all your friends are there and everybody's partying and it's 33 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 2: super fun. And I was actually playing on a team 34 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: from the Northwest, so I wasn't playing with my Atlanta friends. 35 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: I was playing with some other friends and we wound 36 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: up playing Atlanta in the finals. So I'm playing against 37 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: my best friends with my new friends from the Northwest 38 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: in the finals of this amazing, beautiful tournament in Hawaii, 39 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 2: and I feel like shit. I've already like coughed of 40 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: blood several times. There are a couple of moments during 41 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 2: that game that just really stood out to me because 42 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: I was having almost like out of body experiences. It 43 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 2: was one of those times where you just are so 44 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: in touch with your surroundings in your body, and this 45 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: one specific play I just remember being amazing. So I'm 46 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: a deep cutter, basically a wide receiver. I start taking 47 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: off deep. They throw it to me and it's coming 48 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: and in my mind's eye, it's going like one hundred 49 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: miles an hour. I'm running down the field and I jump, 50 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: and when I caught the frisbee, it was as if 51 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: the disc carried me forward. It was just a slow motion, 52 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: amazing feeling of athleticism. I land Lisa Kator was guarding 53 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: me because she was on another team, which was a 54 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: long time teammate of mine, and you know, I pass it, 55 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: we wind up scoring, and it's just amazing. I don't 56 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: know that I never had such acute experience on the 57 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: frisbee field before. And I remember thinking that all of 58 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 2: these things were signs. 59 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 3: Go back in time. 60 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: About a month and I was at a show at 61 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: the Tabernacle, which is a music venue in Atlanta, and 62 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: we're going to see the jam band Mo. 63 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 3: And we go. 64 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: With a bunch of ultimate frisbee friends and one of 65 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 2: our friends has a bag of psychedelic mushrooms and starts 66 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: stoling them out to people. 67 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 3: I did not know how strong these mushrooms were. They 68 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 3: were very strong. 69 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: And I start having an intense hallucination around death and dying. 70 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: My eyes were open and I was awake, but I 71 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 2: was visualizing this new thing. 72 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 3: It's sunny and they're vibrant colors and it's the beginning 73 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 3: of something. 74 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 2: And I remember not feeling scared, feeling nervous, with kind 75 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 2: of feeling this sense of peace. I was just going 76 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 2: to fall asleep and I was going to wake up 77 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 2: into this new reality. But then, you know, coming back 78 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 2: out of it and then being with the friends and 79 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: then starting to hear the music and the crowd. I 80 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: then became so completely overwhelmed with everything that I just 81 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 2: started weeping. And it wasn't from sadness. It was just 82 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: from being overwhelmed with the experience and like the understanding 83 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 2: of death in this new way, and then this music. 84 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 2: And I start seeing high school students who I actually teach. 85 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 2: I see one student and then I see another student. 86 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm out. They're like, oh, miss Mary, you're here, 87 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 2: and I'm like, uhha, and much like be like the 88 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: other direction. I say to my partner Chris who's living 89 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: with me at the time. I say, we got to 90 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 2: get out of here, and so we wound up leaving. 91 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: I don't even know that I saw any of the music, 92 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: to be honest. We find a cab and the cab 93 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 2: driver says where to and I don't remember my address 94 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 2: because I just bought a new house. So I just 95 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 2: had to, through my sobbing tears, tell the cab driver 96 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: the direction to go so we could ultimately get home. 97 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 2: This is before Chris had moved in. He also couldn't 98 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: remember the address. I mean, we were just like a mess. 99 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: I have this experience at the Tabernacle, then I have 100 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: this experience playing Ultimate Frisbee in Hawaii. I come home 101 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: knowing really at my core something was wrong, which is 102 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 2: why I was thinking. I was having this experiences, like 103 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: the subconscious awareness that my body was battling itself. So 104 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 2: I'm working out, I'm, you know, really big into my 105 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: fitness for every metric I should be at the top 106 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: of my game, and I started not being able to 107 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: perform and not knowing why, and so it took me 108 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 2: down this path of seeing doctors. Maybe I'm allergic to things, 109 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 2: Maybe I don't have the right diet, and it. 110 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 3: Just kept getting worse and worse. I'm now coughing up 111 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 3: blood and having night sweats. 112 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: But being a thirty three year old woman who is 113 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: fit and like outwardly seemingly healthy, doctors aren't trusting me. 114 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: Doctors are, you know, thinking I am being a hypochondriac, 115 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: and they're not connecting the dots and they're just sending 116 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: me on my way. And so that's why it took 117 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 2: about a year for me to be diagnosed. My friend Druth, 118 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: who is a physician, I told him like I wasn't 119 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,239 Speaker 2: feeling well and he's like, well, how are you feeling? 120 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: I said terrible, and he's like, ah, that's not good. 121 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: You should go see my friend. This personal care of you, 122 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: because I was just being passed along doctor to a doctor, 123 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: but I got in right away. 124 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 3: He took a chest X ray and then called me. 125 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: I did not accept the call because I think at 126 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: that moment I knew whatever was going to be said 127 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: was going to. 128 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: Be life changing. 129 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: So I'm in a classroom with all of my students 130 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: because that's the best time to call a doctor and 131 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: get bad news, and I say hello, and he said, 132 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: I'm glad you called me back, you have lymphoma. And 133 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: my question was, what's lymphoma? 134 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 3: And he says it's it's cancer. 135 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: And I said, okay, I'm going to have to call 136 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 2: you back, hang up my classroom phone, and just be 137 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 2: lined out of there. 138 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 3: And as I'm leaving the room, I hear when my 139 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 3: students say we love you, miss Marie. 140 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 2: I go home and I wake up my boyfriend Chris, 141 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: who's living with me, and I wake them up and 142 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: I say I have cancer, and then we just sat 143 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 2: there and cried. Twenty years ago, there's not social media, 144 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: and so people find out very slowly through word of mouth. 145 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: I called a couple of very good friends in the 146 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: Ultimate Community let the note was going on, and immediately 147 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: it was like people just rallied, both my school community 148 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: and the Ultimate Community. I'm getting phone calls like every 149 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: five minutes. People are asking what they can do, and 150 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: so very quickly I had to like kind of protect 151 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: myself about who I was sharing with, because I need 152 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 2: to save my emotional energy for myself in this moment. 153 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: A lot of it for me was just like the 154 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: mental anguish and the anxiety and then just being like 155 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: kind of angry, like angry that this is happening, Like, 156 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: I don't fucking have time for this shit, Are you serious? 157 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 2: My early thirties, that's when I was gonna make a 158 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: World's team. I was gonna be on a national team, 159 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 2: like we were gonna win. I'm like priding myself on 160 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: my fitness and my athleticism, and all of a sudden, 161 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna be able to do that. My body 162 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 2: very quickly started to not work for me. Things just 163 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 2: kind of hurt, and I was very tired. The chemotherapy 164 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 2: is really difficult. You're basically putting poison in your body 165 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: every other week. I don't know I have Hodgkins lymphoma 166 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 2: at this point. I just do know I have lymphoma, 167 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: and it's fucking scary because there's non hodgkinslm foma and 168 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: hodgkinslum foma non Hodgkins lymphoma, like that's less treatable and stuff. 169 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 2: So I'm like thinking I'm immediately going to die, you know, 170 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: Like no one will talk to me about it because 171 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: everyone's afraid of dying. I remember very explicitly thinking like 172 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: I'm ready, Like I'm only thirty three, but I've done 173 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 2: so much good, you know, I'm clearly loved by this community. 174 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 2: I'm super tight with my family. If now's the time, 175 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: then now's the time. 176 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 3: And I felt okay. 177 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 2: I think part of me being as physically fit as 178 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: I was potentially helped the chemo therapy work, and so 179 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 2: I only had to have that treatment for. 180 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 3: Just six months. 181 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: So I finished my chemo therapy in August, and the 182 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: national championship for my team is in October, and I 183 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: decide I'm going to play, and I'm fat, out of shape, 184 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: but I did play some points and I was able 185 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 2: to score, and a friend on the other team says, 186 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: I can't believe I just got scored on by cancer girl, 187 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: which I loved. Leading up to cancer, I was like overscheduled, 188 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 2: you know, doing everything, and then after I did have 189 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: a much better balance. Letting go of all those things 190 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 2: was the most difficult and the best learning for me, 191 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: just to figure out, like, you don't have to do everything. 192 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: Other people are going to care for you, and it's okay. 193 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: So twenty years later, I'm now married to my partner 194 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: who was, you know, with me through cancer. We have 195 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 2: two children who are at this point seven and ten. 196 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 2: If this is twenty eighteen and we come to Atlanta 197 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 2: for an Ultimate Frisbee wedding. Our dear friends are getting married. 198 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 2: All these people are converging into Georgia to go to 199 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 2: this wedding, people from all over the country, because Ultimate 200 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 2: Frisbee is a is a big community, but small, right. 201 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: So we're driving up this divided highway, two lanes and 202 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, our back windshield shatters, just explodes 203 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: and shatters all over my children in the backseat. Maxwell 204 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 2: has a cut on his cheek, and I just pull 205 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: over into the grass, like, oh my gosh, what just happened. 206 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: Chris and I get out of the car and there's 207 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 2: a hole on the driver's side where the back windshield 208 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 2: and the back window meet. There's a hole right there, 209 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 2: and Chris says, that's a bullet hole. Get back in 210 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: the car, and about twenty five yards up on the 211 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: right there's a deserted gas station. 212 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 3: So I went behind the gas station. 213 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 2: My kids and I get out of the car and 214 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 2: we shelter next to the building, and Chris is like, 215 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: I'll be back, and I'm like, what the fuck are 216 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 2: you doing. Turns out he was leaving to administer first 217 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 2: aid on someone he had seen on the side of 218 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 2: the road. We were the fifth car that was shot. 219 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: This other person they had shot through the door and 220 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 2: so this person so Chris went to like to administer 221 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: first aid. He's not a fucking first responder, but whatever. 222 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 2: We immediately heard sirens and so the police were very 223 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: quick to the scene. 224 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 3: I'm like crying, I don't know what's going on. 225 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: I'm really nervous, and I just remember turning around and 226 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: seeing Maxwell and Joseph sitting against the building and Maxwell 227 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: has his arm around Joseph just kind of comforting him. 228 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 3: And what was so tremendously sad. 229 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 2: About it was that Maxwell said that he didn't feel 230 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: scared because his father and I seemed to be in 231 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: control and that we were taking care of them, and 232 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: that it wasn't unexpected and that he fully expected to 233 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 2: have another experience like that in his lifetime. I was 234 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: terrified in the moment, but then it was like I 235 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: couldn't even really think about it because the police showed 236 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: up and the ambulance was there, and then our friends 237 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: were there to pick us up, and we had to 238 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: like call Hurts and figure out how they're going to 239 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: getitar and then suddenly it was just like everything was happening. 240 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: We show up at the wedding and there are all 241 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: these people there that we've played with against that were 242 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: some of the same people who were the ones calling 243 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: me when I was sick. This could have very easily 244 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: been a funeral for me, and these would have been 245 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: the same people who would be attending. The bullet if 246 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 2: it was just a millisecond earlier, like it would have 247 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 2: gone in my temple. Thankfully, no one died that was 248 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: shot at by the sniper, but the sniper took his 249 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 2: own life. The first car that was shot had called 250 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: nine to one to one, and so by the time 251 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 2: we had pulled over, it was very quick that I 252 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 2: heard sirens, so I think he shot two more cars 253 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: then heard sirens, and he was shooting with his family's 254 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: hunting rifles as far as I remember, So it wasn't 255 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: even like he, you know, went and bought a gun, 256 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: like these were guns that were accessible. 257 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 3: There were family guns. 258 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 2: So he gets into his pickup truck and starts driving south. 259 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 2: So we were driving north. So he starts driving south 260 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: on the highway and realizes at some point that he's 261 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: not going to get away, and so he shoots himself 262 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: while he's driving down the highway and winds up, you know, 263 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: obviously swerving off and into the medium. They airlift him 264 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 2: to a hospital and he dies in the hospital. That 265 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: person shot at I think ultimately eight cars. I think 266 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 2: two people wind up actually getting bullet wounds, but no 267 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 2: one died. Now I'm another, you know, victim of gun violence. 268 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 2: And since it's so common in our country, it's like, well, 269 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 2: this isn't a story because no one died. It was 270 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: not in the news cycle. People didn't hear about it. 271 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 2: We actively looked up the information and we wound up 272 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 2: reading an article about the shooter, and I remember just 273 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 2: feeling a lot of sadness for this person and his family. 274 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 2: The picture in the newspaper was him sitting around at 275 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: dinner table with his family, everybody smiling, like having a 276 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: family meal. He It was one of those stories where 277 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 2: it's like, we didn't see it coming. This kid was 278 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,479 Speaker 2: apparently motivated by the Parkland shooter. Why what was the 279 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 2: manifest that that shooter had. How is it speaking to 280 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 2: that person and what need was it filling? Like was 281 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 2: that person thinking this is a way I'm going to 282 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 2: be seen, this is how I'm going to be known. 283 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: I actually have never felt angry. 284 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 3: With the shooter. 285 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 2: I felt angry with the insurance company and the car company, 286 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 2: you know, angry well, like at our politicians. But yeah, 287 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 2: I never really felt angry towards that person because I 288 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: believe people do those things because they are just in 289 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of pain. Every time I am in need, 290 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 2: I have support. I am so tremendously lucky. And maybe 291 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 2: luck is not the word right because I've cultivated this 292 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: throughout my life. The message is that a lot of 293 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: our young folks are getting causes, separations, sadness, radicalization. 294 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 3: Having two boys who. 295 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: Are now thirteen and sixteen really paying attention to do 296 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 2: they feel connected because it's so easy to disconnect. And 297 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 2: I think especially the messages we give to young boys 298 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 2: and our society is like you go it alone, man up, 299 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 2: do it on your own, and to really trying to 300 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 2: be intentional about how I'm raising them so that they 301 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 2: are connected and they do feel like they have support 302 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 2: from a community, because I don't want that to be them. 303 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: I don't want it to be like I never saw 304 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: that coming. 305 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 3: And so that's something that kind. 306 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: Of like changed potentially the way that I parent and 307 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 2: the way that I interact with my kids. You know, 308 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 2: there's like no subject that's off limits, right I am 309 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: checking in on them. You know, Maxwell plays a lot 310 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 2: of shoot games. I remember asking him like, do you 311 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 2: ever think about that experience? 312 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: No, that was just something that happened, doesn't think about it. 313 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 2: And knowing that he is like the target for radicalization 314 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 2: in our country, young white sis male, So making sure 315 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: that I'm consistently challenging them, asking them like presenting new views, 316 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 2: trying to like help them diversify the content creators that 317 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 2: they follow and things like that. And it also made 318 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: me start to journal a little bit more. So I 319 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 2: try to a couple of times a year, like write 320 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 2: a letter to my kids. This is who you are 321 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 2: right now, this is where I see you going. I'm 322 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 2: so proud of you. 323 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 3: And it's in this book. So that when I leave this. 324 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: World, they have something in my voice for them that 325 00:20:52,880 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 2: can hopefully like continue to guide them. So I'm a 326 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 2: huge fantasy TV show watcher. I love all of the 327 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: vampire ghosts after Life, you know, which is like all 328 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 2: that shit and it's mostly like teen angst shows. And 329 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: I would love it if I was a ghost and 330 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 2: could still watch over my kids and you know, maybe 331 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 2: still have interaction with the living and things like that. 332 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,959 Speaker 2: I don't think that's true. I think that we are 333 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 2: organic material that have consciousness and that you know, we live, 334 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 2: we you know, die. I do think that that's it. 335 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: The shooting was definitely harder for me to deal with 336 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 2: than cancer because in some respects I believed I had 337 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 2: control over the cancer. Obviously I didn't, but it just 338 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: felt like I was more in control. I could go 339 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 2: to these treatments. I was still you know, trying to 340 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 2: remain active, like do it like like I just could 341 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 2: control that. Shootings are totally out of control, like just 342 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 2: totally out of control. There's no preparation, Like it's totally random. 343 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: I have no control. I don't know what's happening. 344 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 3: So I didn't. 345 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 2: Have that same thought process of am I ready to die? 346 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 2: Like what is it going to be like in the 347 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 2: aftermath and the like the PTSD of it. So it's like, 348 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 2: not only do I not have control and I'm not 349 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 2: processing my emotions, but other people didn't seem to really 350 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 2: put the weight on the event that it felt I 351 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 2: felt a weight like this was traumatic because we've been 352 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 2: so desensitized as a society to this because no one 353 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 2: died and because I didn't actually get injured, like just 354 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:57,239 Speaker 2: it's fine, and that's that was really hard, just like 355 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 2: not having people understand there are particular moments that stick 356 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 2: out in my life. And I think this is true 357 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 2: for everybody. You can't remember your whole life if we 358 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 2: just simply can't have memories of everything that happens. And 359 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 2: I think people have these anchor moments that are critical 360 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: in your life's journey. And so that moment in Hawaii, 361 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 2: I think was one of those moments where it was like, yes, 362 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 2: I lean, your body is fighting itself. You know, obviously 363 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,959 Speaker 2: I don't know this consciously, but subconsciously I'm like, the 364 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: body is fighting, and look what you can still do. 365 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: You can still do these things, you can still have 366 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 2: these moments. And so you know, when I'm like in 367 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 2: my seventh treatment, I don't even think I can get up. 368 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 2: I can't walk more than like twenty feet before sitting down. Like, 369 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 2: being able to recall those anchor stories kind of just 370 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 2: like I think helps propel me forward and like, Okay, yeah, 371 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 2: I feel like shit now, but remember that that was awesome. 372 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 4: Welcome back, this is a Live Again joining me for 373 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 4: a conversation about today's story. Are my other Alive Again 374 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 4: story producers Nicholas Takowski and Brent Day, And I'm your host, 375 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 4: Dan Bush. 376 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 5: I met Eileen playing Ultimate Frisbee. I moved to Atlanta. 377 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 5: I didn't really know anybody. I joined an Ultimate Frisbee team, 378 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 5: and within a weekend I had forty five friends. 379 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 3: You know that. 380 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 5: And she she talks about, she talks about when she 381 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,959 Speaker 5: got cancer, how she really relied on the Ultimate Frisbee community, 382 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 5: how she relied on the her teaching community to kind 383 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 5: of pull her through that. And then she contrasts that with, 384 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 5: you know, the the lack of community that this kid 385 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 5: who took pot shots at her and her husband and 386 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 5: several other people on the road one day and almost 387 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 5: killed them. 388 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 6: She also, it's it was a great story, Brint, when 389 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 6: we when we we have the Delane Guitar story, and 390 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 6: she was a Parkland shooting survivor who went on to 391 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 6: be one of the students who founded March for Our 392 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 6: Lives and became a student activist, and that story is 393 00:25:55,080 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 6: fantastic and and and hs I remember Delaney saying, we 394 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 6: don't say the name of the shooter, you know, because 395 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 6: that's what they want, the shooters. They want some sort 396 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 6: of validation or some sort of you know, I don't 397 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 6: know if it's a mark of fame or something to 398 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 6: some stamp. But Eileen says in this story, she says 399 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 6: that they found out later that this bridge shooter had 400 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 6: been inspired by the manifesto of the Parkland shooter. So 401 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 6: that story has waves across into Eileen's life, into our lives. 402 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 6: And we've talked in the Delane Guitar story about how 403 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 6: pervasive mass shootings have become in America and how we 404 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 6: all have either the chances of you experiencing a mass 405 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 6: shooting or knowing someone who has. It's just terrifying that 406 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 6: we're growing up in this strange, conflicted world. But what 407 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 6: Eileen points to not only with the shooter, but she says, 408 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 6: I didn't feel angry. I never felt angry at him, 409 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 6: at this bridge shooter. You know, she wondered what support 410 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 6: that kid might have not had. She you know, she's 411 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 6: she said, you know, I was mad at the politicians, 412 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 6: I was mad at the insurance company, I was mad 413 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 6: at everybody. I wasn't angry at that child. To her credit. 414 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 6: Eileen goes on to say, well, I check on my boys. 415 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 6: I asked them if they feel connected. You know, there's 416 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 6: this idea of man up, go it alone that is 417 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 6: so ingrained in our culture and what we think we 418 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 6: need to instill upon our kids. But for most of 419 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 6: our lives, what we really need is connection. What we 420 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 6: really need is love, and what we really need is 421 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 6: a sense of community. 422 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 4: We were supposed to survive with each other. 423 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 5: Well, I love that she says, even the little things 424 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 5: like she says, you know, I'll put down my phone 425 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 5: when they're around me. You know, I'll show them that 426 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 5: they're important. You know, I'll a lot of these problems. 427 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 5: You know, it's easy to blame everything on the cell phone, 428 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 5: but I do think that creates a wall where it's 429 00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 5: kind of like, don't talk to me right now. I'm 430 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 5: engaged doing something else and this device that I'm holding 431 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 5: in my hand is more important. And I think just 432 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 5: being intentional about it the way she is where she 433 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 5: puts it down. 434 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 7: You know, when you are online, even in social media, 435 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 7: you're not really interacting with the human being. You're interacting 436 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 7: with your phone. You're interacting with a system that is 437 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 7: designed to keep you there. It's it's as addictive as 438 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 7: any drug that we've ever found in history, and what 439 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 7: and what ends up being. And the thing is loneliness 440 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 7: is one of the most pervasive problems of gen Z 441 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 7: and jen alpha coming up right now. 442 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 5: One thing I will say though about Eileen is she 443 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 5: said that, you know, I feel very lucky for the 444 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 5: community I have, and then she kind of corrected herself 445 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 5: and said, no, that's not really luck. This is something 446 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 5: I cultivated, you know. I went out there and made 447 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 5: the friendships and joined the groups and made a commitment 448 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 5: to other people. And it does take work. So if 449 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 5: there's anything to learn from her, I think, yeah, I 450 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 5: think that's a good lesson. 451 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,959 Speaker 7: When you have no tools to deal with your mental 452 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 7: health problems and your loneliness and you feel like you've 453 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 7: been like sort of turned out by society, Like when 454 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 7: you find somebody who's like, let me tell you what 455 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 7: the real problem is, you're gonna you're gonna latch onto that. 456 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 7: And I do think that like the way to fight 457 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 7: that is to just you know, make sure kids have 458 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 7: like healthy, meaningful interactions through school, through family, to make 459 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 7: sure that they're actually like getting out and having friends. 460 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 5: Not only is it that sense of community, it's having 461 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 5: a passion something you really love. The way the way 462 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 5: I Lean loved Ultimate Frisbee, I mean the way she 463 00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 5: describes that feeling of that last place that she was 464 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 5: fully present for in Hawaii at that tournament where she 465 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 5: catches the disc and it feels like the disc is 466 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 5: carrying her down the field. That moment just really hung 467 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 5: with her, and then a week later she finds out 468 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,479 Speaker 5: she's got cancer. The love of the game, in addition 469 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 5: to her community, pulled her through because she was able 470 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 5: to look back on those moments where she was fully 471 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 5: living life. 472 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 7: So what we've got to do is what I'm getting here, 473 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 7: is what we've got to do is take the phones 474 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 7: out of the hands and replace them with the frisbee 475 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 7: I love. 476 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 6: There's one other thing that Aileen said that speaks to 477 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 6: what you were saying. She has her kids analyze whether 478 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 6: it's a TV show or whether it's a you know, 479 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 6: a video game or something on YouTube. She's constantly asking them. 480 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 6: I think that's what I gleaned from what she said, 481 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 6: is she's asking them, you know what, these content creators, 482 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 6: what is their goal? What is the purpose of the 483 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 6: content you're looking at, you know, and these people are 484 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 6: putting out this content, what is the function of it? 485 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 6: Is it to make a buck? Is it to make 486 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 6: a profit? Is it like, are they doing it to 487 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 6: to better your life? Are they doing it, like you said, Nick, 488 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 6: to keep you, keep you LinkedIn in it? 489 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:15,239 Speaker 3: They did. 490 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 7: I think we should be teaching media literacy from preschool. 491 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know. 492 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 7: I I try to be very careful about what my 493 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 7: kid watches. I try to understand why the thing exists 494 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 7: as well, because there is some very meaningful like children's 495 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 7: programming out there that teaches valuable lessons that can be 496 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 7: used as a tool in the toolbox of parenting. And 497 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 7: then there's and then there's people who are literally online 498 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 7: for clicks and and ad sales and and you can tell. 499 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 6: My kids have started watching the last year or so, 500 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 6: they catch them, they keep sneaking onto YouTube, and I 501 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 6: catch them watching these guys that are just playing video games. 502 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 6: So they're watching other people play video games while talking 503 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 6: about like, hey, look at this, I'm going over here, 504 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 6: and it's just and it's just I can't I just 505 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 6: can't allow them to watch that shit, just like no, well, no, 506 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 6: you have to it's not a buffet. This is not 507 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 6: you know that you have to be more selective and 508 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 6: intentional with the stuff you're consuming. 509 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 5: Well, I think that also just an example of how 510 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 5: intentional Eileen is and the way she lives her life 511 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 5: is that she takes the time to write a letter 512 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 5: to her kids every year, right because, as she acknowledges, 513 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 5: she's like, I'm not always going to be here for them. 514 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 5: If anything ever happens to me, I want to still 515 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 5: be able to guide them. And I just think that 516 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 5: it was really a really cool example of how even 517 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 5: when you're not physically there, you can be a presence 518 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 5: in somebody's life. 519 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 2: You know. 520 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 5: But I think that takes time, that takes some thought, 521 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 5: but those moments are really worth it, you know. But 522 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 5: contrast what you're talking about, Dan, Contrast watching somebody play 523 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 5: a video game with being a member of a summer 524 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 5: league ultimate frisbee team actually playing a game that you 525 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 5: didn't necessarily have to be any good at. I should 526 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 5: maybe explain what ultimate frisbee is for those who don't know. 527 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 5: It's a lot like football or soccer, where you move 528 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 5: the disc down the field. It's not frisbee golf, which 529 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 5: a lot of people confuse it for you have two teams. 530 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 5: You're moving the disc to an end zone, just like 531 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 5: you would in football or soccer. But the difference is 532 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 5: you referee yourself. If you make a foul, you raise 533 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 5: your hands, say I fouled the other player, and it's 534 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 5: called spirit of the game. Sportsmanship is the spirit of 535 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 5: the game. Including people in play is a spirit of 536 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 5: the game. Calling yourself out when you fail or foul 537 00:33:58,360 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 5: is spirit of the game. 538 00:33:59,400 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 6: That's cool. 539 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 5: The sense of building up somebody who isn't as strong 540 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 5: as you. It's a really beautiful Maybe you. 541 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 7: Should write a manifesto about Ultimate Frisbee. 542 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 4: Next time I'm Alive again, we meet Brandon Dinsmore, who 543 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 4: survived an overdose and near death experience in twenty fourteen. 544 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 4: Given a second chance, Brandon has transformed his life. Now 545 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 4: a business owner, husband, and father, He's dedicated his journey 546 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 4: to empowering others. 547 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 8: After I saw like this funeral, I was transported to 548 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 8: another vision where my mother walked into the apartment where 549 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 8: I was dead. It's like a quantum leap, like moving 550 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 8: from one reality into a completely different reality. Now I'm 551 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 8: going through a other major spiritual awakening I've had faith 552 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 8: following this vision right and trying to develop myself and 553 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 8: heal from the past, and it's required a great deal 554 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 8: of faith. 555 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 4: Join us as he shares how his profound experience led 556 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 4: him to his mission. Our story producers are Dan Bush, 557 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,720 Speaker 4: Kate Sweeney, Brent Die, Nicholas Dakowski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music 558 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 4: by Ben Lovett, additional music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive 559 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 4: producers are Matthew Frederick and Trevor Young. Special thanks to 560 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 4: Alexander Williams for additional production support. Our studio engineers are 561 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 4: Rima el Kali and Nomes Griffin. Our editors are Dan Bush, Gerhartslovitchka, 562 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 4: Brent Die, and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben Lovett and 563 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 4: Alexander Rodriguez. I'm your host Dan Bush. Special thanks to 564 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 4: Eileen Murray for sharing her story. Eileen also posted a 565 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 4: blog about the shooting incident, which you can find in 566 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 4: our show notes. Alive Again is a production of iHeart 567 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 4: Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have a transformative near 568 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 4: death experience to share, we'd love to hear your story. 569 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 4: Please email us at Alive Again Project at gmail dot com. 570 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 4: That's a l i v e A g a I 571 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 4: N p R O j E C T at gmail 572 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 4: dot com.