1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a gorgeous young 2 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: daycare owner seemingly vanish then her body discovered? How can 3 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: there still be no answers even with a powerhouse like 4 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: Lebron James In on the investigation Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 5 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: A neighbor lays a single red rose outside of a 6 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: hallmind hardesty boulevard. What happened here has baffled Akron police 7 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: and devastated a family, then has stripped our whole or 8 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: in a blink of an eye, she was just so special. 9 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: She was Erica Weems described by loved ones as caring 10 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: and loving. She enjoyed traveling and had many friends. Daryl 11 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: Weems last saw his daughter Saturday. She left me Saturday 12 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: about nine o'clock and I told her call me when 13 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: you get home. She never got. I called on days Sunday, 14 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: no answer. It brings up It conjures up so many 15 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: images when you call and call and call and the 16 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: person doesn't answer. The person that always answers on the 17 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: first or second ring, that always checks back, that always 18 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: calls back, and you can't get them in the hours 19 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: pass and deep down inside you know something is horribly wrong. 20 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friends at News five Cleveland. 21 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: But let me introduce you an all star panel here 22 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: to try to make sense of the mystery surrounding Erica Weims. 23 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: And when you look at her, so full of life bytality, businessperson, 24 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: former cheerleader, just this great person, no clues? How can 25 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: that even be with me? High profile lawyer Randy Kessler, 26 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: Atlanta trial lawyer, professor at Emory Law School, former chair 27 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: of the ABA Family Law Section, and author of Divorce 28 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: Protect Yourself, Your Kids, and Your Future. And you can 29 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: find him at ksf Ksfamilylaw dot com. Doctor Jory Crausen 30 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: with US psychologist faculty Saint Leo University, also with the 31 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: Blue Wall Institute, author of Operation s OS. Joining US. 32 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examina for the entire state of Florida. 33 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: You can find him at pathcaremed dot com. Lecturer University 34 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: Florida Medical School in Forensic Medicine and founder and host 35 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Karen L. 36 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: Smith joining us you know her well, forensic expert, lecturer 37 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: University Florida and host of a hit new series, Shattered 38 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: Souls podcast. But first, let me go to an Jeanette Levy, 39 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: Emmy nominated reporter and anchor. You can find her on 40 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: Twitter at a Jeanette five and Jeanette. I'm having a 41 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: hard time taking in that there are no facts. Hold 42 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: on the first thing you do when you can't find 43 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: any evidence, You can't find any facts to help you 44 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: to even start your investigation. You start with your victim, 45 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: this gorgeous girl in her thirties dead and they can't 46 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: figure out what happened. I find that really hard to believe. 47 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: So who is she? Let's look at her? Take a 48 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: listen to our friend Bob Jones joining us out of Cleveland. 49 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: Erica graduated from Ohio State and opened a daycare center 50 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: in Columbus. She had a passion and a love for children, 51 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: what family members say. She closed that daycare to be 52 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: closer to home and had just started a daycare in 53 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: the Acron home she moved into a few months ago. 54 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: She could get kids to say and do things that 55 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: even their parents couldn't do. So who would want to 56 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: kill Erica? Acron? Homicide investigators don't have any suspects. You know, 57 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: when I heard that, it made me think of my 58 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: number one favorite teacher and I've got so many of them. 59 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: It was second grade Clara Belle Bryant. She got me 60 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: to write my very first poem, Believe it or Not. 61 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: Doctor Jerry Cross in Psychologists joining us today Faculty Saint 62 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: Leo University, Doctor Jory Why is it our teachers? Even 63 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: my kindergarten teacher, she taught me kindergarten and a barn 64 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: still remember miss Julia. And apparently the children and the 65 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: parents absolutely love Erica Williams And that makes a forever 66 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: impact on children. Yeah, because children, you know, they love 67 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: to learn, and especially if they have somebody that they 68 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: can attach to and bond with in that learning process, 69 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: like a teacher that goes on throughout the entire life. 70 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: That person is remembered. Just like you said with your 71 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: second grade teacher. I had one my first great teacher, 72 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: the same way. It's very normal. That's just the way 73 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: we attach, bond and learn. You know, it affects you 74 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: the rest of your life when you get a great teacher. 75 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: And according to everyone, this woman Ericallims could get children 76 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: to behave or do things even their parents could not 77 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: get them to do. They loved her so much. So 78 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: what does that land on crime story? As well. I'll 79 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: tell you how. Take a listen to Rachel Polanski three News. 80 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: A quiet Monday afternoon, Macro nine one were filocation of 81 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: your emergency. Unanswered calls and text to Ericallims's phone only 82 00:05:54,600 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: fuel their concerns that silence was about to cry, fracturing 83 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: so many lives. Oh my god, I thought this is raw. 84 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: As family rushed to Erica's West Afron home that November day, 85 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: they found her upstairs, slumped on her bed, partially covered 86 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: in a bath towel, her cell phone in one hand, 87 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: a drink in the other. It was she was swollen 88 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: and blue and just like cold. So it was basically 89 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: like I already knew. Paramedics knew as well. Three bullet 90 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: wounds all to the head. It wasn't that that they 91 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: can do, But why and who? Just doesn't that make 92 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: sense either all the way around. It just doesn't make sense. 93 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. Think about it. On a quiet 94 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: Monday afternoon and I'm on one call to this woman's home, 95 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: partially covered in a bath towel, cell phone still in 96 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: one hand, ring in the other. Sounds like she was 97 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: either getting in or getting out of the bathtub as 98 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: she shot three times in the head, and it sounds 99 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: like execution style. Now to Anginet Levy, Emmy nominated reporter 100 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: and anchor, Anginet, what can you tell us, Well, you 101 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: know it's just crazy, Nancy, because it sounds like to me, 102 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: at least, you know, her sister couldn't get a hold 103 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: of her, she goes over to the house and finds 104 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: her in this state. I don't know if you were 105 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: thinking this, but I'm not, as a woman, going to 106 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: let somebody into my house. But I don't know if 107 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: I'm in a towel. And the back door of the 108 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: house was unlocked, her sister said when she went in 109 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: there to check on her, and that raised her suspicions 110 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: a little bit. And it to me seems like she's 111 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: sitting on the bed. One of the reports said she 112 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: was sitting on the bed, or at least it appeared 113 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: she had to have been with that solo cup in 114 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: one hand and the phone in the other, and she's 115 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: wrapped in the towel. So it's to me it would 116 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: think it would only it seems logical that somebody who 117 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: knew her possibly within that house. You wouldn't, as a woman, 118 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: let somebody in your home. In that seat unless you 119 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: knew them. You know. Randy Kessler, renowned child lawyer joining us. 120 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: How the Atlanta jurisdiction today, I don't know if you 121 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: recall a case I prosecuted a long time ago. His 122 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: name well, he was known as the red Rapist and 123 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: he terrorized the city of Atlanta for gosh, about a year. 124 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: He would get into women's homes, typically dressed in red. 125 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: After he attacked them and raped them, he would leave 126 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: a red rose behind, like he thought he was on 127 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: a date. This is how he got in, Randy. He 128 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: would find an unlocked door, or typically, especially in the 129 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: summer months, a window that was cracked or open. So 130 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: just because there is no forced treat does not necessarily 131 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: mean the victim herself did not, as my twin site 132 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: on accident by accident leave a door open. What doesn't 133 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: would impress me? If there was no rape or theft? 134 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: What about it? Randy? Well, not only was there no 135 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: rape or theft, there were no repeat occurrences. There weren't 136 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: other incidents that were very similar with the same m O. 137 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: And there was no telltale sign. I mean you he 138 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: had a psychological she wanted to get caught a psychologist. 139 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's also on the show, would have a field. 140 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: They're talking about him and analyzing him. This is different 141 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: this maybe you may be, Randy. Maybe a crime of opportunity, 142 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: somebody who's in a mood or drunk or out of 143 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: it on drugs, which of course defense under the law. 144 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: Thank you for raising that misdirection, Randy kess Or that's 145 00:09:51,200 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: why you went on with your cases crime stories with 146 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys who were talking about Erica Wings just 147 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: stunning woman, real business mind. She ran a very successful daycare, 148 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: but she closed it and reopened a new one so 149 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: she could be closer to her family. Take a listen 150 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: to our friends at News five. And then on Monday afternoon, 151 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: Erica's sister and brother in law went to Erica's home 152 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: and made a horrible discovery. Erica was dead in a bedroom. 153 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna miss her dearly. Police say someone shot her 154 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: in the head. This is such a tragedy. Press Day, 155 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: It's just unbelievable. It's unbelievable. You know. I'm just thinking 156 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: about the way that she was found because typically I 157 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: want to go to Karenelle Smith, forensics expert, and you 158 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: can hear her on a new hit podcast, Shattered Souls. Guys, 159 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: I want to pose this to you, Karen Smith. Routine evidence, okay, 160 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: or as I like to say, because that makes it 161 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: sound like it's running the meal eleven ice. Oh, it's 162 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: just routine, sap. I mean evidence of routine because when 163 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: the sister could not get in touch with her, she 164 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: immediately knew something was wrong, to the point she gets 165 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: her husband in the car and they drive over there together. Right, 166 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: explain that why that's significant because they know her. When 167 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: you know someone, if my best friend didn't answer her 168 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: phone for the third time that I'd called her, I 169 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: would know something was wrong, even though she lives in Florida. 170 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: I would be calling nine one one and having somebody 171 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: go do excuse me to go do a welfare check 172 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: on her to make sure nothing was wrong. So that 173 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: speaks to the routine of the victim. And when you 174 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: have cases like this, whether there's you know, very little 175 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: forensic evidence, they're very few clues left behind. Going to 176 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: the victim and understanding their routine and how they went 177 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: about their day is so very important and there are 178 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: a lot of forendiclus We'll get to in a little 179 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: bit with you. But you know, to me, understanding who 180 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: she was is going to start the investigation on the 181 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: right trend. Oh definitely. And another thing while we're talking, 182 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: if you look at this also, I'm not quite sure 183 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: how to explain it. Let's go to doctor Tim Gallagher. 184 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher is the medical examiner for the entire 185 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: state of Florida. For instance, in my old jurisdation where 186 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: I practice law, we had the Fulton County Medical Examiner. 187 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: There's in many jurisdictions you've got a medical examiner in 188 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: every big metropolitan area. This guy's a medical examiner for Florida. 189 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: And let me tell you there's no lack of business 190 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,719 Speaker 1: in Florida. So to you, doctor Tim Gallagher, I want 191 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: you to take what you do in the morgue and 192 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: extrapolate to what we're talking about. This is a woman 193 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: that was not going out every night partying. I'm not judging. 194 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that raises the likelihood of you being 195 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: a crime victim if you're out and about at night, 196 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: if you're in areas with which you are not familiar, 197 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: if you're clubbing and some guy follows you to your car. 198 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: I mean her lifestyle in my mind, and this is 199 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: anecdotal on my part. Doctor Gallagher suggests she's a very 200 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: low risk for crime. She runs a business, she's hands 201 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: on with children and their parents. They'll love her, which 202 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: tells me she's not into drugs or alcohol. She's not 203 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: clubbing club and she's not out on the street by 204 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: hit a crack at midnight. That should lower her exposure 205 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: to violent crime. Doctor Gallagher, Well, everything you say is true. 206 00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: It really should. You know, there's a couple of things 207 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: that we have to rule in and rule out here. Uh. 208 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: Number one, we'll get to the body first, is that 209 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: she would appear in the morgue. Well, it's not suicide. Well, 210 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: I'm just a JD. You're the m D. But when 211 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: you shot three times in the head, you know that's 212 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: not suicide. Well you know that's something that we do 213 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: have to rule out with certainty. And you're not gonna 214 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: like it. Side. Yeah, I can already tell you. I 215 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: gonna like what I'm going to say next. But I've 216 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: had case of suicide where the person just charged the 217 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: weapon to their head three times and it was a 218 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: case you're totally lying, what case, um, But you know 219 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: that was a case of what case. See, I love 220 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: doing that to people on cross Randy Kesser is like, 221 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: I remember that when somebody jumps up and says, oh, 222 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: I had a case where someone who shot they had 223 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: three times and it was suicide. What case? This is 224 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: a case of a man who used the twenty two 225 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: with the very old ammunition. Cut detail, all right, but 226 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: he did end up shooting himself in the head three times, 227 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: but those were all concussion. Was the weapon found at 228 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: the sie? The weapon was found at the scene of 229 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: the twenty two revolver. Okay, well there's no weapon found 230 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: at the same So what do you think she she 231 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: threw the gun in the lake? Well, and then what 232 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: I mean is did she do that to get rid 233 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: of the weapon? Well, because they're they're in front of me, 234 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: and they do have these wounds, I have to make 235 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: certain that these are not contact gunshot womans. So if 236 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: they are not, then I look for other signs such 237 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: as stipling around the wounds, which would indicate that the 238 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: gun was held at a distance from a close to 239 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: the victim, but at at a distance of about two 240 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: or three feet from the victim when it was discharged, 241 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: so that would indicate to me that another person was involved. 242 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: Can you break down stippling? Is it that kind of 243 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: like it looks like burn marks? Is gunpowder burn marks? Right? 244 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: So stipling, not only does the bullet come out of 245 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: the muzzle of the gun, but a large flame comes 246 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: out of the gun, and sparks come out of the gun. 247 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: And these sparks are the burnt gunpowder that is discharging 248 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: the bullet. And when these sparks land on the body, 249 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: actually burn a little pin point black mark on the body. 250 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: And this mark would indicate that the gun had to 251 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: be within a couple of feet of the victim, because 252 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: if it was greater than a few feet, the little 253 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: spark would cool off and fall down to the ground 254 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: and not reach the victim. So as long as the 255 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: gun is within two or three feet of the victim, 256 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: this spark would come out of the barrel of the gun, 257 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: land on the victim, burn their skin and cause a 258 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: small burn mark or tattooing of the skin. And then 259 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: this is what we call stipling. And then we can 260 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: judge by the pattern of the stipling on the on 261 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: the body how far or how close the gun was 262 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: to the victim. When it was discharged. You know what, 263 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: I'm completely entranced in what you're saying, doctor Gallery. Hey, Randy, 264 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: do you remember Kelly Fight, the head of the ballistics 265 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: division at the crime lab. Do you remember that name? 266 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: I remember the name. We never worked to any Uh well, 267 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: I hope not, since you'd handle Moost a lot of divorces, 268 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: I hope you don't need a ballistics expert. But when 269 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,239 Speaker 1: he would take the stand, and I rarely did this 270 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: in court, I would just go sit down. I'll go 271 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: to my council table and just sit down because it's 272 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: so amazing and so intriguing. Here the science behind ballistics. 273 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: And you know, normally, Randy, you gotta be on your 274 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: feet the whole trial to you know, save yourself the 275 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: energy of jumping up out of your seat, or you know, 276 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: you're taking exhibits back and forth to the witness and 277 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: in front of the jury. But when Fight, the ballistics expert, 278 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: much like Gallagher just did, start explaining the science and ballistics. 279 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: It's it's really incredible. Now Gallagher was talking, when you 280 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: got across the ramm or what do you do to 281 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: sort of say, you know what, no questions exactly? The 282 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: defense just has to put their tail between their legs 283 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: and just sit down. But Gallagher, you're talking about stip 284 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: laying and how close the gun has to be for 285 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: that stipling effect to manifest on a person's skin. But 286 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: then there's also GSR gunshot residue, and that would only 287 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: make it. Will you explain the significance of significance of 288 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: gunshot residue possibly on her hands? Right? So the gunshot explain? Sure? So? 289 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: Gunshot residue is the smoke that comes out of the 290 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: gun after the bullets discharged, and that smoke has to 291 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: land on something, and it lands on the closest thing 292 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: to it, and that is the person's hands if they're 293 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: holding the gun. So I can test the person's hands 294 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: using a gunshot residue detection kit, and if that hand 295 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: is positive for gunshot residue or the smoke that lands 296 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: on it from the gun, then I can say with 297 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: certainty that this person had fired the gun. Always in 298 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: close proximity to a gun that was fired. Guys, what 299 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: you're hearing right now is the analysis involved in case preparation. 300 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: It's really wonderful to have an all star panel like 301 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: we have today. Kessler Crawls and Gallagher Smith Levy and 302 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: because they add so much to an investigation. But this 303 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: investigation is not clinical, it's not rhetorical, her hopathetical, it's 304 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: real time stories with Nancy Grace. There's a beautiful young 305 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: woman found dead, wrapped in a towel holding her cell phone, 306 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: which I also find significant. And it's drink in her 307 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: towel upstairs in her bedroom. Either just got in or 308 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: out of the tub, shot three times in the head, 309 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: Still unsolved. I'm going to tell you how Lebron James, 310 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: the Lebron James. I just finished watching Space Jam with 311 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: my son. This guy's incredible. How did he get in 312 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: the mix? But first I want to go back to 313 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: what we know. Take a listen now to our friends 314 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: at News five Cleveland, our cut five. So early on 315 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: in the investigation, police have many questions. Did Erica know 316 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: her killer? Did she allow that person to come inside? 317 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: Is anything missing? Was there a break in? So far 318 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: detectives don't have the answers. If you know anything, turning 319 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: yourself in tonight, some of County Crimestoppers is offering a 320 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: reward up to five thousand dollars for information leading to 321 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,959 Speaker 1: Erica's killer, while a heartbroken family pleads for justice. Please, 322 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: like I never would have thought I would have ever 323 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: been in his position. Just please tell somebody something I'll 324 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: just hate here in the family that I think. That's 325 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: his sister begging for help. Guys, the tip line is 326 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: three three zero three seven four twenty four ninety repeat 327 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: three three zero three seven four two four nine zero. 328 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: When she said, I never thought this would happen at 329 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: my family. That's what I thought before my fiancee was murderred. 330 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: I mean, you just don't think violent crime is going 331 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: to happen to you. What happened? How could a woman, 332 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: this woman, a daycare operator be shot three times in 333 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: the head? Now? How did Lebron James get into the 334 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: middle of this? Take a list eric Arana Deckcare in 335 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: Columbus and another out of her heart sleep Bulevard home. 336 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: Being said she was always around to give advice, even 337 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: gave her money to get her through. Police found Erica 338 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: Tuesday afternoon in her home after a call for a 339 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: wellness check by family, Her death sending shockwaves throughout the community. 340 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: Lebron James tweeting this out just a few hours ago, 341 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: saying the family needs answers to why and who would 342 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: do this quote disgusting thing to such a caring and 343 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: loving angel. Banks is wondering the same thing. Not an 344 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: evil bone in her body at all, and so it's very, 345 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,239 Speaker 1: very heartbreaking that somebody would be so evil to her, 346 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: because again, she would give her last to anybody, you know, Matt, 347 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 1: to you. Randy Cussler, Atlanta trial lawyer, professor at Emory 348 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: Law School, goes on and on and on. Randy. A 349 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: couple of times you and I would bump into each 350 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: other in the hall at the courthouse, and I don't 351 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: know if you remember this, but one time I was 352 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: really down and I was wondering this very question. You 353 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 1: probably don't remember it, but I remember you. You were 354 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: coming off the elevator and coming down a long hallway. 355 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: It was in the New Annex Courthouse, and you have 356 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: this big smile on your face and you said something 357 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: very lighthearted. It kind of snapped me out of it. 358 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: I was really down on the dumps because of this 359 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: very thing. You see victims that are just really angels 360 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: on earth that would do anything for anybody, and then 361 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: they're the ones that end up being murder victims are raped, 362 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: or mistreated in some way, and I would always wonder, 363 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: why is it that such good people are murdered or 364 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: mistreated or hurt. And you're hearing that right now about 365 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: Erica Weims. She would give you the shirt, offer back 366 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: her last penny. Genuinely loved the children in her daycare. 367 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: She was now running two, one at a facility and 368 00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: one in her home. And Jeanette Levy, how did le 369 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: Bron James get involved in this case? Well, when Lebron 370 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: James was a kid growing up an Akron, he was 371 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: friends with Erica's brother, and he had said that Brenda 372 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: and Darryl Weems, who were Erica's parents, were really involved 373 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: in his life. So that's how he referred to Erica 374 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: as his sister. So they knew each other from childhood, 375 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: and Lebron was still very close to her brother Brandon. 376 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: You know, I know a little bit about his past 377 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: from my son Forcemin and watch Space Jams, which was 378 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: actually pretty good about growing up and the mom would 379 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: have to drop him at games and she would have 380 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: to go to work. She could never watch his games, 381 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: and just the way he was brought up, really working 382 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: hard to achieve what he has achieved, and now I'm 383 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: thinking about what you're telling me. How Erica Weims's family 384 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: helped him as he was growing up and he's now 385 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: trying to help find her killer. That's a really weird twist, 386 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: doctor Georry crossing it. But it happens in life that way. Yeah, 387 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: just the circumstances of draw in like you know these 388 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: I want say, strangers, but friends, and then all of 389 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 1: a sudden some evil enters in and just destroys the family. 390 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: This is what I know. People refer to Erica Williams 391 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: as quote the total package, beauty, brain's talent, fun, outgoing. 392 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: She loved to sing and dance. She was a cheerleader 393 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 1: when she was younger, but she played basketball too. Enter 394 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: Lebron James. When she was growing up, everybody in the 395 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: house was always scrambling to get to a basketball game 396 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: or a tournament or studying. He says, this is the dad. 397 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: They were all on on her roll. And they all, 398 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: including Erica, graduated at the top of their class. Metal 399 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: child old and as you heard the sister say, she 400 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: would still help support financially her sister, especially during COVID. 401 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it just goes on and on, and this 402 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: is significant to you, Karen Smith. Sometimes she would speak 403 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: or text with her sister up to ten times a day. 404 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm not telling you that to give you a warm, 405 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: fuzzy feeling. I'm telling you that for probitive reasons. What 406 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: does it prove that proved she is in contact. You 407 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: text her, you call her, she's going to respond, and 408 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: when she didn't, it sent off alarm bells. Unfortunately they 409 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: were correct. That goes into her personality too, and doctor 410 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: Joy can talk about this much better than I can. 411 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: But it tells me that she is a loving person, 412 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: She's responsive, she wants people to know she's okay, she 413 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: wants people to know that what's going on in her life. 414 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: So that is really important. As far as victimology and 415 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: Nancy there are I have so many questions about this. 416 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: Then we'll get to it. But I am chomping at 417 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: the bit to talk about. Well. Another thing they texting 418 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: and the calling, the constant being in touch with family 419 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: like my family is it also helps you establish a timeline. 420 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: I mean, timelines have been established in many different ways, 421 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: and they're very critical to an investigation because it can 422 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: limit the people you were exposed to at the time 423 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: you were killed. A lot. You're close to your family, Well, 424 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: where were they? Where's your ex husband, where's your boyfriend? 425 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: Where were all of them at the beginning of the 426 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: timeline when you were killed. So it's critical that we 427 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: get all these texts and phone calls that will help 428 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: us establish a timeline. Now, this woman is smart. I 429 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: find it really hard to believe that she would have 430 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 1: left a door unlot. This woman had two college degrees, 431 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: including a master's degree. You know she's no deadbeat. So 432 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: what happened? Take a listen to Suzanne Stratford Fox eight earlier. 433 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: You heard kindled Forward nineteen Alison of Fox say. Late afternoon, 434 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: sometime right before three o'clock, I became aware of his tweet, 435 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: Lebron James taking to Twitter Wednesday asking his hometown to 436 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: help solve a very personal murder. To help stir the 437 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: conscience of the community, because it does take most often 438 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: tips or helps from the community offul crime like this 439 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: at thirty seven year old Erica Weims found shot inside 440 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: of her home on Hardesty Boulevard Monday afternoon. She wasn't 441 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: someone that was in harm's way or running with the 442 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: wrong people. They said, she was an extraordinary woman. A 443 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: vibrant woman who just celebrated a birthday, ran a daycare, 444 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: and volunteered feeding the homeless. Also the sister of Brandon Weems, 445 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: director of scouting for the Cavaliers, and lifelong friend of 446 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: Lebron James since they played together in high school. Lebron tweeting, 447 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: my brother's family need answers to why and whom my city. 448 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: I need y'all to go to work and find out 449 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: who did this awful, shameful, disgusting thing to such a caring, 450 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: loving angel. That is exactly what we are doing right now, 451 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: trying to give this family some answers. Time stories with 452 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. You know, let's talk about the saying. Karen Smith, 453 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: forensic expert, I've learned a lot. Tell me what your 454 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: analysis of the scene is. But I'm gonna go I'm 455 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: gonna walk through the crime scene in my head. I 456 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: don't have the photographs, but this is what I'm seeing, 457 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: and it's hypothetical. The back door was unlocked, Was there 458 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: a key hidden somewhere? Was there a deadbolt or any 459 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: other locks that were disengaged from the inside of that door, 460 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: suggesting that maybe somebody was let in, or did they 461 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: let themselves in. No signs of fourth entry. This happened upstairs. 462 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,959 Speaker 1: Whoever did this knew the layout of that house, They 463 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: knew her habit. She was in a powel. Did this 464 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: person lie in wait behind a door or in a closet? Also, 465 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: the scene seemed stage to me, Nancy. She had a 466 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: cell phone in one hand and a cup in the other. 467 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: If you're shot three times in the head, I have 468 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: never seen a scene in all the ones that I've 469 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: worked where somebody had an item in both hands that 470 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: wasn't put there on purpose. Not saying that happened, but 471 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: was there liquid in the cup or had it filled out? Somebody? 472 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: Seemed to me somebody was lying in wait for her. 473 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: They were quiet, was music playing? Were they able to 474 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: get the jump on her? It's an intermediate gunshot wound meeting. 475 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: They got close enough to her head without her knowing. 476 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: She's sitting on the side of the bed. According to report, 477 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: she didn't move. Somebody got the jump on her and 478 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: snuck up on her. Also, a few items and her 479 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: purse were missing. Valuables were left behind. To me, is 480 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: that a trophy that somebody took, something that somebody wanted 481 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: of hers to take with them. All of these questions 482 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: should have been asked at that crime scene. Little bit 483 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: of what I've learned this They give you some answers, 484 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: no signs of a struggle, no signs of a break in, 485 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: purse missing, other valules left behind. Autopsy records we obtained 486 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: reveal she was shot three times with a small caliber 487 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: gun A twenty two springs to mind. Often that indicates 488 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: a woman right and a revolver, no casing. No. One 489 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: bullet fired from intermediate range through right temple caused the 490 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: fatal wound. Other wounds caused superficial damage. All three were 491 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: gunshot wounds. Four bullet fragments in all were recovered. No firearm, 492 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: no shell casings. That's what we know about the scene. 493 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: To doctor Tim Gallagher, they're saying she had a cell 494 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: phone and a drink in her hand, but don't I 495 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: don't know if did she fall off the bed and 496 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: forward and those things were near her hands? Were they 497 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: actually in her our hands? So, doctor Gallagher, post mortem, 498 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: as soon as she shot, she dropped those items. Yes, 499 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: your your guest makes an excellent point. You know, when 500 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: ittually be taking under a serious consideration as far as 501 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: the scene being stage. You're correct. When you are shot, 502 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: you go and the body goes into a something called 503 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: a decordict and the cerebrate position, where the hands open up, 504 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: the arms extend, even if it's just for a couple 505 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: of seconds, and then whatever's in the hands drop. That's 506 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: why we do not find people who canit suicide with 507 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: the guns still in their hand. It's on the floor 508 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: next to them, right. But she does make an excellent point. 509 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: It does sound like there could be evidence of staging here. 510 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: The twenty two caliber gun is something generally that women 511 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: carry versus men, you know, so I would expect that 512 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: women should not be ruled out in the suspect pool. 513 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm want to talk to you about this, Randy Kessler 514 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: and doctor Jerry Crossen. Very often when people are broke, 515 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: they will do anything to keep afloat. It's like a 516 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: rat on a sinking ship. This woman had paid off 517 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: all her credit card debt, her home was almost paid for. 518 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: She recently picked out a new building for her daycare. 519 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: She was not in any financial trouble, no drug or 520 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: alcohol problem, which puts her in a different category of victim. 521 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: What about it, Randy Kessler and Randy Also the fact 522 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: that the scene was staged tells me it may not 523 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: have been random. For instance, you and I have seen 524 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: plenty of burglary's gone wrong. First of all, it's wrong 525 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: to start with if you're burglarising at home but somebody 526 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: comes in, they find the woman home and then they 527 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: either kill her out of panic or then rape her 528 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: or rape and kill her. But here, I mean, we 529 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: could easily have had a burglary gone wrong. But typically, Randy, 530 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: don't you agree that burglar will just high tell it? 531 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: That's always with the dude. You know, that's why you help. 532 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: You yell, screen, make noise, do whatever you can. You 533 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,879 Speaker 1: know they don't They don't want to get caught, right, 534 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,479 Speaker 1: I mean it's not they don't go into that business. Nancy, 535 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: why you gave me the four per second? You're back 536 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: on le Bron James, And I want to say, they're 537 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: people in this world, great people like Lebron James and 538 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: like Nancy Grace who see or experience tragedy and do 539 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: something about it. And God bless him for doing something 540 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: about it, and God bless you for you doing about it. 541 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: And it all comes from the same place. You want 542 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: to help. So I know that wasn't the question, but 543 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: I've been dynasty of it. I really do, because thanks Randy, 544 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: I really do, because when I heard that sister and 545 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 1: the family, they're all just devastated and they still don't 546 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: have answers to don't don't Joy Cross, I don't want 547 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: to follow up on that. A loved one really can't 548 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: finished grieving until you know what happened. So in their mind, 549 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 1: the investigation is still going. This is unsolved. Yeah, that's 550 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,439 Speaker 1: the ambiguity. You know that we're always searching for the why, 551 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: and you know, the family definitely needs to have those answers. 552 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: Getting back to what Karen was saying about the staging 553 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: of that scene, personality, why this individual appeared to have 554 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: taken some time. This wasn't like a random come in, 555 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: you know, fire three shots and then leave. There seemed 556 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: to be like a time element where this individual was 557 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: controlling this environment for maybe even a couple of minutes. 558 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 1: But setting it up like that possibly you know, with 559 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,479 Speaker 1: the cell phone and the drink in the hand, that's 560 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: very peculiar, I mean, and that's got to have some meaning. Man. 561 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: I hope that they process that doctor Jorry crossing to 562 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: see if there are fingerprints other than hers on the 563 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: cell phone and the drink. And here's another fact I 564 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: was talking about, did she fall forward? And how is 565 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: she holding onto a cell phone and a drink? I 566 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,720 Speaker 1: now know I'm rereading evots about the scene they found 567 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: Erica slumped on her bed, both feet dangling off the side. 568 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: That's really peculiar, isn't it, doctor Tim Gallagher? Is true, 569 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: but peculiar. She was still sitting on her bed, slumped 570 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: over with her feet dangling off the side. Dead. She 571 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: didn't fall over. Yeah, that is. That does speak to 572 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: a stage scene, no doubt, you know. So. So to 573 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: have somebody commit suicide or be killed in that position 574 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: is highly unusual without the assistance of somebody placing them 575 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: in that position. And the point of that, I'm not 576 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: just fascinated by the fact that somebody would commit murder 577 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: and then stage the scene. It indicates it was not 578 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: random random killers. You come in, you blow up in 579 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: there to steal stuff, You shoot somebody you want to 580 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: get the hay out of their prompto. You don't take 581 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: time to stage the scene. Liken John Man a Ramsey 582 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: the killer wrote to Ransom notes a practice in a 583 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: real one and then staged the scene of the body 584 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: being found. That's extremely odd, very odd when you find 585 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: a staged scene in my experience, agree or disagree, Karen, 586 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: it's someone close to the victim, Somebody close to her, 587 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 1: somebody knew who she was, somebody obsessed with her, somebody 588 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: who knew her habit. Absolutely take a listen to more 589 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: of what we know about this victim. Eric Oims, thirty 590 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: seven year old Eric Oims always took this safe fraud. 591 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: A bachelor's degree from Ohio State, a master's from Kent. 592 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: She owned her own home at a daycare business. Children 593 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: loved her and she adored them, despite being unable to 594 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: have kids of her own. Most of all, she loved 595 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 1: her family and traveling. And now her older sister Charmaine 596 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: is left to unravel the mystery and just like seeing 597 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,720 Speaker 1: like she was, tell us if she was scared as something. 598 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: Widespread news accounts of her death initially brought attention. Erica's brother, Brandon, 599 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: was a Saint Vincent Saint Mary teammate of Lebron, James 600 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,959 Speaker 1: and Jane, was raised alongside the Weems. He considered Erica 601 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: a sister. Everyone to understand the angel that we lost 602 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: here on earth, but not as she's in a bigger place, 603 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: and offered a tearful eulogy at her memorial service. We 604 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,879 Speaker 1: will find justice and we will get justice. I pray 605 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: for justice in the murder of this beautiful girl, Erica 606 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: Wims tip line three three zero three seven four twenty 607 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:11,879 Speaker 1: four ninety. We wait as justice unfolds. God willing, Nancy Grace, 608 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: crime Stories, something Off. Goodbye friend.