1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: Don't let your legacy I T systems cost you money, 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: innovation and a place at the digital table of the future. 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,239 Speaker 1: You can change your systems and the economics of it 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: with software from red hat see how at red hat 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: dot com. Please raise your right hand and repeat after me, I, 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear h Donald John Trump, 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute that I 8 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: the office of President of the United States. And we 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 1: now have a new president, Donald J. Trump. They're going 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: to be lots of fascinating tech storylines to watch over 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: the next four years. Cybersecurity, the economic impacts of automation, 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: the reinvigorated fight over net neutrality. But the thing that's 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: going to be most visible to the general public, at 15 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: least at first, is the way that the president communicates publicly. Ah. Yes, 16 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: the infamous Trump Twitter account. And here's the thing. Trump 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: tweets a lot. He uses the account at real Donald Trump, 18 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: and since Friday afternoon he has controlled the official President 19 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 1: of the United States account as well, that's at potus. 20 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: For over a year, many people have been waiting with 21 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: bated breath for that moment that shows how Trump's style 22 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: of tweeting would become a political liability. It looked like 23 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: we had gotten there a few times at least during 24 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: the campaign, but but clearly it never came. I mean, 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: he did win well. Just to remind us, Josh, what 26 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: kind of messages are we talking about here, Yeah, I 27 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: pulled a couple of examples to start with. Here's one 28 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: from June, right when Trump started running druggies, drug dealers, rapists, 29 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: and killers are coming across the southern border. When will 30 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: the US get smart and stop this travesty? And here's 31 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: one since Trump has been elected. China steals United States 32 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: and Navy research drone in international waters, rips it out 33 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: of water, and takes it to China in unprecedented act. Yes, 34 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: he initially misspelled unprecedented, so it said unprecedented. And here's 35 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: one more that got a lot of attention. In addition 36 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 1: to winning the Electoral College in the landslide, I won 37 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people 38 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: who voted illegally. Trump tweets nearly every day, so this 39 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: is just a flavor of what he's posted. We pulled 40 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: out these tweets in particular because they raise a few 41 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: thorny issues. The one about Mexican immigrants, for example, raises 42 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: all sorts of questions about presidential decorum. The tweet about 43 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: China shows how a single message could put years of 44 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: delicate diplomacy into jeopardy. And the last tweet, where Trump 45 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: refers to quote millions of people who voted illegally, well, 46 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: that raises difficult questions about fact checking the president. There's 47 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: no evidence at all of widespread voter fraud, but millions 48 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: of people we'll see tweets like this, Hi, I'm Brad 49 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: Stone and I'm Joshua Boosting. This is our first episode 50 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: of Decrypted since Donald Trump officially took office, so we're 51 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: exploring the new president's feelings about technology and specifically his 52 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: love for Twitter. Twitter was a major form of communication 53 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: for Donald Trump the candidate, and even after winning the election, 54 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: Trump kept setting the news agenda with his early morning tweets. 55 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: Many people thought his tweeting would slow down after he won, 56 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: but there's every indication that he plans to continue using 57 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: it now that he's in office. Yeah, it's been controversial, 58 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: to say the least. On the one hand, Twitter, let's 59 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: Trump talk directly to voters, but as quick fire tweets, 60 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: sometimes poorly thought out, have been aimed at everyone from 61 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: union leaders in Indiana to the government of China to 62 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: the media itself. It's creating a new paradigm for diplomats, 63 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: journal us and of course, ordinary voters. We'll take a 64 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: look at why Trump's use of Twitter marks such a 65 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: break with the past, what this means for the press, 66 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: and why despite all this attention, Twitter is still struggling 67 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: to grow as a company. Here's one tricky problem. Some 68 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: of Trump's tweets have probably violated Twitter's own rules against harassment. 69 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: The Washington Post ran an op ed calling for Twitter 70 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: to ban the president elect. Far hot Manjou, who writes 71 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: a technology column for The New York Times, said the 72 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: company would be within its rights to ban him, though 73 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: he advised they shouldn't do it. Twitter has shut down 74 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: a couple of people's accounts during this campaign. It's often 75 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: been because they use the platform to attack other people personally. Now, 76 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: Trump has a tendency to call people out by name himself, 77 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: and when you're president of the United States, that carries 78 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: a lot of weight. Here's a tweet that Trump posted 79 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: in early December after he won the election. Chuck Jones, 80 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: who is president of United steel Workers, has done a 81 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: terrible job representing workers. No wonder companies flee country. Oh yeah, 82 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: there was the famous tweet from last summer directed at 83 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: a former Miss Universe named Alicia Machado. Did crook and 84 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: Hillary help disgusting check out sex tape and past Alicia 85 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: m become a U S citizen so that she could 86 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: use her in that debate. Now it doesn't seem like 87 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: there actually was a sex tape, and Trump was criticized 88 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: widely for this. Some Mexican currency traders recently said their 89 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: government should just buy Twitter and shut it down because 90 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: that would be cheaper than the negative impact of the 91 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: president's hostile tweets have had on the value of the pace. 92 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: So I think that last thing was a joke. Yeah, 93 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: but maybe one of those jokes where you laugh as 94 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: you say what you actually mean. Either way, it does 95 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: make you think, what are the consequences of this shift 96 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: in the way the President of the United States communicates 97 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: with the world. Twitter started out with high ideals. On 98 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: its website, it says this mission is to quote give 99 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: everyone the power to create and air ideas and information 100 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: instantly without barriers. Maybe they have succeeded it, although perhaps 101 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: not quite in the way they initially imagined. I asked 102 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: Twitter to discuss its role in politics and incoming Trump administration, 103 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: but they said the subject was too sensitive. Luckily, the 104 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: person who led Twitter as partnerships with government officials and 105 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: politicians for the last six years actually left the company 106 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: right after the election. Yeah. His name is Adam Sharp, 107 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: and I gave him a call, and when I did so, 108 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: he said he was hibernating in his house in Connecticut, 109 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: kind of recovering from the election. But he did agree 110 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: to let me come up and visit. I showed up 111 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,119 Speaker 1: on a frigid day in January, just a few weeks 112 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: before the inauguration. Adam opened the door. He was wearing 113 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: a striped collared shirt and it was tucked in even 114 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: though he was in his own house and wasn't even 115 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: wearing shoes. So more of a d C guy than 116 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: a Silicon Valley guy. Yeah, it seemed that way. Before 117 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: worked for Twitter, Adam was actually a staff around the 118 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: Hill And when he talks about Twitter, you can hear 119 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: him just layering the technology on top of his favorite 120 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: Washington cliches. At the end of the day, politics is personal. 121 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: It's like fee old. Typically, all politics is local. People 122 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: want to have that ground level connection. The best way 123 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: to get a vote is still what it was a 124 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: hundred years ago, the handshake, the look in your eye. 125 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: I'm running for office. Can I have your vote? It's 126 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: hard to scale that to three million people. During his 127 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: six years of Twitter, he's really seen the platform grow 128 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: from nothing in the political world. Yeah, when Adam took 129 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: over in two thousand and ten, only of people in 130 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: Congress even had Twitter accounts. It was his job to 131 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: go from door to door on the hill and show 132 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: incoming lawmakers how the service even worked. Many offices that 133 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:57,119 Speaker 1: I would meet with in social media was something given 134 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: to the junior most person. It was the new hire 135 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: or the intern right out of school. Who you get 136 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: all that social stuff? You take care of this because 137 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: it was seen as a check the box. Things have 138 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: changed quite a bit. Adam says that Anthony Weiner getting 139 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: caught sending r rated Twitter messages was actually a big 140 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: boon to the company because it scared people enough into 141 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: actually paying attention. That showed how you could ruin your 142 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: career by acting badly on Twitter. I guess Trump is 143 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: demonstrating how you use Twitter to magnify a political message. Yeah, 144 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: and after the wildest election in recent memory, President Trump 145 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: is blowing up the playbook on how public officials talk 146 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: to the people who elected them. Basically, he just ignores 147 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: the careful Washingtonian way of speaking and cuts out the 148 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: press in a new way. Here's what Adam had to 149 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: say about that Twitter pierces that bubble. Twitter gives the 150 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: opportunity to scalably have direct contact between candidates and voters, 151 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: elected officials and can ch once. We saw that develop 152 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: over time, especially through the Obama years, and now I 153 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: think we've seen a candidate in Donald Trump who is 154 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: willing to really hit the accelerator and try to take 155 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: that another step forward. Does Adam think that Twitter, what 156 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: it has evolved into today lives up to the hopes 157 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: he had for it when he started at the company. Yeah, 158 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: I'll say this. Adam seemed genuinely optimistic about Twitter's role 159 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: in politics, and he picked out a moment from this 160 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: campaign that he felt demonstrated Twitter's full potential. Now you 161 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: might find this moment obscure. I didn't remember it, but 162 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: but bear with me. It comes from November during the 163 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: Democratic primaries. Hillary Clinton is on stage with Bernie Sanders 164 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: and she's asked to justify her close ties to Wall Street. 165 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: I represented New York, and I represented New York on 166 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: nine eleven when we were attacked. Where were we attacked. 167 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: We were attacked in downtown Manhattan, where Wall Street is. 168 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: I did spend a whole lot of time in effort 169 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: helping them rebuild. That was good for New York, it 170 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: was good for the economy, and it was a way 171 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: to rebuke the terrorists who had attacked our country. So oh, so, 172 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: she's basically claiming that the Wall Street donations were essentially 173 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: a thank you for helping rebuild after nine eleven. Yeah, 174 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, this triggered a ton of sarcastic 175 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: commentary on Twitter. I remember this. The CBS debate moderator 176 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: spent the next commercial break sifting through Twitter looking at 177 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: how viewers were reacting in real time to what Clinton 178 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: was saying. Then they picked a tweet and put it 179 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: up on the huge screen above the debate stage and 180 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: asked Hillary Clinton to respond to the criticism. Here's Nancy 181 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: Cordyce from CBS reading it out loud the Secretary Clinton. 182 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: One of the tweets we saw said this, I've never 183 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: seen a candidate invoke nine eleven to justify millions of 184 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: Wall Street donations until now, the idea being that, yes, 185 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: you were a champion of the community after nine eleven, 186 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: but what does that have to do with taking big donations. Well, 187 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that whoever tweeted that had that impress because 188 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: after fifty years of televised presidential debates and people sitting 189 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: at home yelling at the TV, for the first time 190 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: those yells were heard on stage. Um, that I think 191 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: was the most profound moment of realization of the aspirations 192 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: of my six years at Twitter. So Adam has essentially 193 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: picked out this one articulate comment from what was probably 194 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: a sea of acrimony, name calling, racism, sexism, all the 195 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: rancid commentary that has stirred up on the service during 196 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 1: these political moments. Still, it's difficult to disagree with him 197 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: on the power of this particular example. Yeah, I figured 198 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: that if this was a big moment for Twitter, it 199 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: must have been a really big moment for the person 200 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: who actually put the tweet out. So I tracked him 201 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: down his name is Andy gray Wall and he's a 202 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: professor at the University of Iowa. At the time of 203 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: the debate, he wasn't a very heavy Twitter user. He said, 204 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: he was just kind of killing time until someone came 205 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: to pick him up to go out. And at the 206 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: time he only had about two hundred followers. And I 207 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: was having a good time and I never liked tweeted 208 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: an event before. And about an hour in to the debate, 209 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: I'm watching commercial break ends and they go ahead and 210 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: putting my tweet on the screen that I just put up. 211 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's a very surreal moment. Since then, Greg 212 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: Wall says that Twitter has turned into his primary source 213 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: of information, and on the day I reached out to him, 214 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: he was deeply involved in an esoteric Twitter debate over 215 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: Trump's conflicts of interests. So does Andy think Twitter as 216 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: as important to the public discourse as Adam does? Uh? 217 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: Not quite. He says he often ends up just being 218 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: a place where people can yell at one another, and 219 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: often not a lot gets done. But it's it's just 220 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: hard to know the influence. I mean, when you spend 221 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: all day on Twitter, you spend an hour on Twitter, 222 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: and that becomes your whole world, and you think that 223 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: everyone's thinking about Twitter. And sometimes I'll spend a couple 224 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: hours on Twitter and then I go play saw ball 225 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: some firefighters or something, and no one cares or has 226 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: any knowledge of what's been trending during the day, and 227 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: you kind of remind yourself that Twitter, I think it's 228 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: a bubble, but a very big one, um, but not 229 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: as big as active users like me might think. I 230 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: think this was a lot of people's experience with Twitter 231 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: in two thousand sixteen. I like to call it the 232 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: Twitter paradox. One politician used it quite famously to run 233 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: his entire presidential campaign, but at the same time, the 234 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: network never felt so small and closed off from the 235 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: real world. So the campaign seems to have taught us 236 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: another lesson that a clever politician and its backers can 237 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: use Twitter to dominate and even monopolize the public conversation. 238 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: During the campaign, he would pick up his phone, type 239 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: out a tweet, and bam, that's the news agenda for 240 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: the day. And he's certainly demonstrated pretty much every day 241 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: since the election that that technique can work just as 242 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: effectively in international affairs, legislative relations, and everything else. As 243 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: it could for the daily horse race. Inside the most 244 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: successful organizations, I T has gone from supporting the business 245 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: to driving the business, but the costs of legacy infrastructure 246 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: can impede this progress. Budgets can't stretch enough to pay 247 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: for digital innovation at the speed required. No one gets 248 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: a blank check. The answer is to change the economics 249 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: of your I by shifting from ownership to use, from 250 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: licenses to subscriptions, from proprietary to open. Change the economics 251 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: of it with open software from red hat. Learn more 252 00:14:53,400 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: at red hat dot com. So this is creating a 253 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: dilemma for the news media, especially now since Trump's tweets 254 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: are the official word of the United States. It seems 255 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: like there's both a technological question here about how Twitter 256 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: changes the way the president communicates with the public, and 257 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: a political one about what this president actually says on Twitter. 258 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: What's challenging about covering a President Trump because he uses 259 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: Twitter a lot. He's putting things up that haven't been 260 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: fact checked, that may not be true. Um, and can 261 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: you even tease those things apart? I mean, I think 262 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: Donald Trump isn't the first politician to use social media 263 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: or online media in general as an n run around 264 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: conventional media. Um that at least journalists are familiar with. 265 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: You know, journalists are now rather than being the gatekeepers 266 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: of right information, they've taken on a role as more 267 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: analyzers and investigators and less a sort of the primary 268 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: found of information. That's Ben Mullen, the managing editor of 269 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: Pointer dot org pointers at Journalism Institute based in Florida. 270 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: It also owns the Tampa Bay Times. We've been headed 271 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: down this road for a while. So, but where Trump 272 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: is different, I think is is that generally those channels 273 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: have been used to communicate accurate information, and um, I 274 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: don't think you've seen the same regard for accuracy or 275 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: decorum as you've seen from other other political figures from 276 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. And so I think the challenge becomes as 277 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: the media, well, treat this information as um as you 278 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: would any other record, you know, pars it, analyze it, 279 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: fact check it, make sure it's accurate, and then sort 280 00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: of base your reporting from there. We should also know 281 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: that Twitter has been an enormous asset for journalists. It's 282 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: a great way to share and promote our stories, to 283 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: communicate directly with sources, and to research people before you 284 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: write about them. You can tell a lot about a 285 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: person from their Twitter feed if they're active. It's also 286 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: a way that journalists keep up on what one another 287 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,479 Speaker 1: is doing, make sure they're not missing anything, and just 288 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: stay involved in the conversation. One really good example of 289 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: how Twitter is helpful for journalists comes from the campaign. 290 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: It was the work of David Fahrenhold of the Washington Post. 291 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: He's the reporter who showed that Trump wasn't telling the 292 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: truth when it came to his charitable giving. Fahrenhold got 293 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: a lot of help from people who followed him on Twitter. 294 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: He posted updates and what he was looking for, and 295 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: other users helped him to track down the details. This 296 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: is pretty much the idealistic version of Twitter, right, where 297 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: social media empowers people by connecting them. It's the Twitter 298 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: that Adam sharp SI's so. In other words, Josh, the 299 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: solution to Twitter's shortcomings are just more Twitter. Of course, 300 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: that's a convenient view to have when you work at 301 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: the company, and in any case, we see him on 302 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: a one way road towards more social media, whether we 303 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: like it or not. So I asked Molan about this. 304 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you think that Trump is an outlier, 305 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,719 Speaker 1: and you know, is explainable only through the lens of 306 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, or if something like this was inevitable once 307 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: social media started to become a real central way that 308 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: we communicate with one another. I think Donald Trump, to 309 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: some extent is going to be regarded as a pioneer 310 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: in this arena. I think you're probably going to see 311 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: politicians both on the right and the left emulate his strategy. 312 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe not his specific rhetoric, but I think you 313 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: are going to see politicians on both the left and 314 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:56,239 Speaker 1: the right be much more aggressive on social come Is 315 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: that a bad thing or a good thing um? Or 316 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 1: do we just not know yet? Oh, that's a hard question. 317 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: I think it's it's a bad thing for the public 318 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: to get inaccurate information. I think it's a good thing 319 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: for the public to have access to a multiplicity of 320 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: sources of information which they can assess um independently. So 321 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: I think, like everything in technology, the rise of Twitter 322 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: and the rise of politicians using Twitter is neither a 323 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: bad or a good thing. I think it's just a thing, 324 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: and we all have to come to grips with it 325 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: and figure out a way that it can be used responsibly. 326 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: There's a really odd thing about Twitter's role in politics 327 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: that we haven't talked about yet. You would think the 328 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: Twitter central role in public discourse would be great for business, 329 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: but as anyone knows who follows it, Twitter as a 330 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: company has really been struggling. Yeah, there's really no other 331 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: way to see this. The company's revenue growth has slowed 332 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: to about eight percent last quarter. That's the ninth straight 333 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: quarter the rate of growth has slowed, and that's especially 334 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: an issue since the eleven year old company has never 335 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: turned a profit. In the year leading up to the election, 336 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: when Twitter was as prominent as it's ever been, it 337 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: added about ten million monthly users. That amounts to about 338 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: three percent growth over the same period. Facebook's user based 339 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: grew by six and that's even though the company is 340 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: more than five and a half times Twitter size. At 341 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: one point, Twitter tried to sell itself to another big company, 342 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: but it didn't work out, and Trump's text summit really 343 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: added insult to injury. Twitter didn't even get an invite. So, Josh, 344 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: if number one user Donald Trump can't save Twitter, what's 345 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: the problem here? I think there's a couple of things 346 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 1: going on here. The first one is that when someone 347 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: makes news with a tweet. A lot of people hear 348 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: about it, but a lot of those people never actually 349 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: go to Twitter itself. They see the tweet on the 350 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: news or being talked about somewhere else, and so they 351 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: don't become users of the platform. And the other thing is, 352 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: and I think in the news media we can appreciate this, 353 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: is that you can be influential without being a lucrative business. 354 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: Here's Adam Sharp again. I think in many ways Twitter 355 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: faces the same challenges as the news industry, and that 356 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: it is most successful in meeting it's ideals and aspirational 357 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: goals for meaningful impact. But making the connection between public 358 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: good and shareholder value is a daily challenge, and that 359 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: is no different for Twitter than it is for Bloomberg 360 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: or the New York Times. Yeah, because you don't want 361 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: to compare yourself the news industry generally, you would think 362 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: that hearing about Twitter so much during the presidential campaign 363 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: would have inspired a lot of people to try it 364 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: out for the first time. I talked to Josh Ellman 365 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: about this. Elman was a product manager at Twitter from 366 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine to eleven. He also worked at Facebook, 367 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: and he's now a partner at the venture firm Greylock 368 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: Elman thinks Twitter's biggest problem is that it's intimidating to 369 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: new users. That's because you have to spend a lot 370 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: of time configuring it to give you useful information, choosing 371 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: which people to follow, and so on. Look of the 372 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: people I know who use Twitter and and like when 373 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: you've gotten it set up right for your life, with 374 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: your passion, your interests, those unique things you care about 375 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: and follow the right sources. Twitter is still the very 376 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: best format for a lot of people to go get 377 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: all that information. But it is really hard to set up, 378 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: and it's really hard to find your passion. It's really 379 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: hard to figure out who to follow and what to follow. 380 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,959 Speaker 1: I call that tuning your Twitter, so to speak. And 381 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: it's like Twitters hasn't made it any easier after all 382 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: these years to tune your Twitter, and I really want 383 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: them to and then they're the infamous trolls. The presidential 384 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 1: campaign seemed to highlight the most hostile aspects of Twitter 385 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: as a place to hang out online. Yeah, people who 386 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: supported one candidate often sent threats and other nasty messages 387 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: to their political opponents. I know that many journalists with 388 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: Jewish last names who criticized Trump ended up getting waves 389 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: of messages suggesting they should be putting gas chambers. That's horrible. 390 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: At the beginning of two thousand sixteen, Twitter said it 391 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: was going to come up with ways to cut back 392 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: on harassment and abuse, but a year later they're basically 393 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 1: making the same promises. Now. One thing that surprised me 394 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: in my conversation with Adam It was how little he 395 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: bought into the idea that Twitter has dropped the ball 396 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: on this. Many people take that as a given, but 397 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: he feels that politics has always had its nasty elements 398 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: and the best way to deal with trolls is just 399 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: to drown them out with more useful conversations. Were there 400 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: any times during the campaign where you felt uncomfortable with 401 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: with Twitter's role in the in the political discourse. I 402 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: think Twitter's role is to give everyone a voice, and 403 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: Twitter's role and lyrale was not to have an opinion 404 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: on which voice was right or wrong, or good or bad. 405 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: That's for other people to decide, and I think we 406 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: were successful in giving equal voice an opportunity. That's basically 407 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: been the official line from all social media companies. Yeah, 408 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: I think that that might be changing. It's worth saying 409 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: that Twitter's official stance on this is evolving. The company 410 00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: has been trying to come up with ways to cut 411 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: off people who are just using the platform to abuse people. 412 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: It seems to know that it really has to solve 413 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: this one. Yeah, apparently the nasty tone on Twitter was 414 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: one reason at a trouble finding another company to buy it. 415 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: But even if the company does solve this, it may 416 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: seem like an unwelcoming place too many people, so long 417 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: as our politics remain so poisonous. Josh Elman thinks this 418 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: is still a big issue. I still believe that the 419 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: potential of Twitter to be a billion niezer product when 420 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: everybody gets a feed that matters to them, it's it's 421 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: still there. Um, I feel like it's getting further away, 422 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: and I worry that there is some underlying dkay. You know, 423 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,719 Speaker 1: I think the real thing we should all be watching 424 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: for is is does Twitter find any of its mojo 425 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: where people start to feel like I'm proud to use 426 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: Twitter or is it a little bit like I still 427 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: feel kind of sad when I use Twitter because I 428 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: see more of the abuse and a fewer people doing it, 429 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: and and that ends up becoming sort of the meme, 430 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: because you know, part of what makes these products powerful 431 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: is the cultural effect they have. To if Twitter loses 432 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: some of that cultural energy, that ends up pretty tough. 433 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: Do you think that it's a role in politics going forward? 434 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: Then is going to end up being a big factor 435 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: in that how people view it as is this a 436 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: is this a product I want to get involved in 437 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: or not? I don't know. Was a really tough year 438 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: for politics and political discourse and a lot of antagonism 439 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: on both sides. I think if that continue us in 440 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: our political discourse, then I think Twitter is going to 441 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: be an unhappy place for a lot of people. They 442 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: aren't going to want to continue to see that express 443 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: in Twitter became such a busy place for that kind 444 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: of negative expression. Um, if I'm optimistic that we kind 445 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: of move on to a light, be more constructive political 446 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: discourse this year, then that will be good for Twitter. 447 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: But you know it's fingers crossed now. That was supposed 448 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: to be the end of this week's episode, but if anything, 449 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: recording the show raised more questions for us than it answered. 450 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: So Josh and I have been talking about this a 451 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: lot offline, and we decided to tape one of our 452 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: calls and added here. So, Josh, it's now been a 453 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: couple of days since we recorded most of the podcast, 454 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: and in that time, Donald Trump, of course, has been 455 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: very active on Twitter. He attacked civil rights icon and 456 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: Congressman John Lewis. He said he was a man of 457 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: no action. He of course attacked the media a few 458 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: times and Saturday Night Live. You know, I just wonder 459 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: Donald Trump is now president of the United States, do 460 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: you think he continues to use Twitter and the way 461 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: that he has during the campaign and the transition. Yeah, 462 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: this is a funny dynamic that I had in conversations 463 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: I had for this podcast, but also over the last 464 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: couple of months, where whoever I was talking to would 465 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: say something along the lines of, once Donald Trump gets 466 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: past this next milestone, he's gonna stop tweeting like that. 467 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: If he became the Republican nominee, is gonna start acting presidential. 468 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: He won the election, so he's going to calm down. 469 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: And last week I had people tell me, uh, you know, 470 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: once once he's sworn in, I'm sure that he's gonna, 471 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, think a little bit more before he tweets. 472 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 1: And I just don't see anything in his behavior that 473 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: indicates that he would make that step. I mean, he 474 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: hasn't done it at any of those past steps, you know, 475 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: So somehow I'm a little more optimistic. Uh. You know, 476 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: he's about to get a new Twitter account, the apt 477 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: potus account, thirteen million new followers. I feel like at 478 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: some point there will have to be an intervention and 479 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: we're going to see a little bit more distance between 480 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: the president and the platform. Yeah. I wonder what that 481 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 1: intervention looks like. Yeah, well, hopefully it's not a tweet 482 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: insta getting a national emergency. But let me ask you this, 483 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: So does Twitter survive the age of Trump? How do 484 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: you think this company fares now? Given so much attention 485 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: is on it right now? Well, I wonder if within Twitter, 486 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: if there's a sort of a die of release, thinking 487 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: that maybe people will stop being so interested in politics. 488 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: We're all tired the NFL playoffs they're starting, and we 489 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: can focus on some of the other things twitters for. 490 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: But I do think that there's some troubling signs for 491 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: the company. You know, just last week they sold off 492 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: fabric said it developed their tools to Google. I think 493 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: people saw that as kind of a swimming down of 494 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: the company. Especially considering they've been losing some executive talent, 495 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: and it really comes down to, you know, is this 496 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: company going to have the resources and the energy to 497 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: make what seemed like some pretty necessary adjustments. I'm reminded 498 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: what Peter Thiel recently told Maureen Doubt in his interview 499 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: in The New York Times. He said, the crazy thing 500 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: is at a place like Twitter, they were all working 501 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: for Trump this whole year, even though they thought they 502 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,959 Speaker 1: were working for Bernie Sanders. I wonder how dismaying that 503 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: is at a company like Twitter, where you have to 504 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: assume the majority of the employees do lead and left. Yeah, 505 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: I do think that it could be a problem for 506 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: recruitment if Twitter continues to be seen as Trump's megaphone, 507 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: considering how liberal Pilicon Valley is. I'll be something to watch. Well, 508 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: thank you, josh Yeah, thank you, Rach. And that's it 509 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: for this week's episode of Decrypted. Thanks for listening. Tell 510 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: us what you thought of this episode. Send a voice 511 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: message to our producer Pia at p G A D 512 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: K A r I at Bloomberg dot net, or write 513 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: to me on Twitter. I'm at Joshua Brewstein and I'm 514 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: at brad Stone. You can subscribe to decrypt it on 515 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, and leave us 516 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: a rating in a review. It helps more listeners to 517 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: find our show. This episode was produced by p Ed gut, 518 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: Cary Magnus Hendrickson, and Liz Smith. Alec McCabe as head 519 00:30:42,400 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Podcasts. We'll see you next week. Don't your 520 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: legacy I systems cost you money, innovation and a place 521 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: at the digital table of the future. You can change 522 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: your systems and the economics of it with software from 523 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: red Hat. See how at red hat dot com.