WEBVTT - Broadcom's Nvidia Moment, Trump Meets With TikTok 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:09.840 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.200 From Mahard where Innovation of Money and Power Collie in 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:17.200 Silicon Valley, NBN. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:18.680 and Ed Ludlove. 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:34.360 Live from New York. This is Boomberg Technology coming up. 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.200 Broadcom becomes the new Nvidia, as the latter falls further 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:42.080 into correction territory. We'll discuss why plus TikTok CEO pays 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.360 a visit to President Elect Donald Trump, what that means 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.839 for the apps potential band, and a conversation with Senator 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:52.120 Amy Cloversha on how to combat the rise of AI 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:56.240 generated deep fake material online. But first I check in 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.720 on these markets which come down from record highs. We 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.360 digest the retail sales data that shows the US economy 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.560 remains resilient as we look ahead to the FED meeting tomorrow. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:08.440 We're just on ten to hooks. But look, we date 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:11.440 about a five ten percent dip lower on the NAZAQ 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:14.240 one hundred after it has been record high after record high. 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.360 Go into some of the individual movers. It has been 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.199 chip stocks that have been dragging US lower somewhat again 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.480 coming down from a significant run for Broadcon, for example, 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.200 we're down more than five percent, but boy has it 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.160 been on a big rally, up thirty eight percent in 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.160 the previous two sessions in video, though off by two 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.640 point two percent, we are further into correction territory. That 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:34.440 means it's more than ten percent off of its previous 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.640 high that was met in early November. And I'm looking 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:40.759 at arm as somewhere in Delaware. Arm takes on its 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:44.240 biggest client and indeed partner Qualcom. Once again. We got 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.520 these two key influential chip designers and makes going head 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.640 to head in an IP battle that has border rammifications. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.639 We dig into it. The Bloomberg's Ian King, the chip 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:55.640 Master is here, and we've got a lot to talk 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.400 about when it comes to chips. Let's just focus on 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:00.760 in video to start with, because is there any real 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.200 fundamental reason that we're suddenly getting in to a technical 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:04.440 correction here? 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.200 Nothing that you've seen any headlines on or seen any 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:13.840 reporting on. As you remember, Carolyn, they've said we're sold out. Basically, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.200 their innings are essentially a product of how much they 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.559 can get from their suppliers right now. So nothing fundamentally 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:23.040 that would give anybody any pause. But obviously, as you 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:25.560 pointed out a huge amount of money that has been 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:26.640 poured into that stock. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:28.840 It's not more than one hundred percent, still one hundred 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.079 and sixty percent over the course of the year. We 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.799 then flip to maybe a wanna be in video and 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.760 the making broad Coom really signaled the total addressable market 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:42.040 here for its designs within data centers, and the crowd 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.480 went wild. Can you focus in on broad Coom and 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:46.160 maybe a bit of profit taking on the day, But 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:48.000 what do they have to do to make this a reality? 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:49.200 Yeah? 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:50.840 I mean they have to work really hard. I mean 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.520 what hot Tan gave wasn't a sales target, right, we 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.959 need to be careful about that kind of As much 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.880 as ninety billion that he was talking about was an 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:03.000 addressable market for his type of chips, and that's by 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.239 twenty twenty seven. So what he was saying is that 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.800 we have line of sight to a huge increase in 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.800 what we do, But that pales in comparison to in video, 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.760 which is going to be one hundred and twenty billion 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:16.160 in data center sales alone this year according to analysts. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:20.440 And when it comes to just enticing different kind of 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:24.640 investors on board, I mean many were basically playing catch 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:26.880 up to in video for the last two years. Is 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.280 there a slight fomo trade here going on? Is that 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:31.560 sort of what Hocktwan has to deal with, is that 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:32.960 everyone's looking for the next in video. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.800 Yeah, I mean that's absolutely part of it, and part 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.360 of it might be the world if you think about it. 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:43.160 Broadcoms making chips, it's designing chips for the Googles and 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.640 the Microsoft's and companies like this who are basically designing 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:49.360 their own chips so that they don't have to buy 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.920 as much from InVideo. So there might be a kind 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.960 of a switch trade here. But bear in mind that 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.760 everybody who's been asked about this, mostly Hogtan most recently, 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.200 has said, look, there's plenty in for everybody. This is 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.360 a massive growth opportunity. Nobody's really taking anything away from anybody. 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.640 Very briefly, qualcom arm how big is this. 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.840 It's been sort of ignored. They need to settle, according 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:15.960 to investors, both of them need each other. This is 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.760 something that is very strange that they're on this collision course. 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.320 Our analysis says they should be settling. 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.000 They shouldn't be doing this. This is a jury trial, 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.160 a lot at risk currently up one hundred percent for 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:30.480 the year, at least on armshares in King breaking it 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:32.360 all down, We thank you so much. You've are more 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.039 chip news for you because Global Wafers, a Taiwanese maker 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.800 of silicon wafers used in chip manufacturing, thanks a lot. 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.480 It's finalized a deal to receive as much as four 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.320 hundred and six million dollars in awards from the US 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.799 Chips and Science Act is going to help build factories 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.360 in Texas and Missouri. Now, the US Commerce Department says 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.719 it will dull out the funds based on Global Wafers 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.080 reaching certain milestones. We've got to get in to the 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.960 whole breadth of semiconductors, but also ai what it's contributing 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.320 to the market come twenty twenty five. Callycox has US 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:05.160 Chief market strategistic Redhult's Wealth Management. Kelly, Look, we've got 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:06.920 a lot on the move when it comes to chips 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.360 on the downside today, but on the upside for the year. 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.039 Is this a trade you want to remain in the 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:13.080 semi conductor trade? 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.680 Seeing today, Caroline and I'll just you know, toss a 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:19.520 shout out to your prior guest, because I think he 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.560 framed the story of the sector so perfectly. But what 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.039 you're seeing is, you know, a trade that's stuck and 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.600 rarefied air right now. I mean, the AI trade has 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:29.880 been one of the big stories of twenty twenty four, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.359 and unfortunately, what that means is that when the AI 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:34.680 story hits a bump, which to be clear, I don't 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:36.599 think it's hitting up bump today, but there are some 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:40.120 changes underfoot, clearly from what we saw on broadcomme earnings. 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.559 You know, when the AI trade changes or hits a bump, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.200 then you could see some of these steeper pullbacks just 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.120 because the sector has done so well. So right now, 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.479 this is what we're warning client's about. Right Obviously, the 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.039 AI stories quite encouraging. We're excited to see where AI 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.600 goes in the coming years. But at the same time, 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.240 tech is the most overvalued. 0:05:58.400 --> 0:05:59.400 Sector in the market. 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.479 So even there are a lot of promising science, we're 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:04.960 urging clients to, you know, think about balance in their 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.920 portfolios and reallocating into more unloved sectors. 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.359 Okay, so while before we get into going outside of 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.320 tech more broadly into unloved within tech, is there a 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.800 way of reorientating Many have talked about getting out of 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.039 semiconductors into software. But has that trade actually already coured? 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:21.000 Have you missed that boat? 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.360 Well, if you're an AI investor, if you're all about 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.599 the AI story, I think you start having you need 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.839 to start looking at the picks and shovels, and I 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:30.960 think many people are doing that. That's why chip makers 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.160 have had such an amazing year. 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:34.760 But I think it's even. 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.120 Time to look outside of chip makers there, you know, 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.520 looking at the companies that could utilize AI in their 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:42.640 day to day operations. 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.840 For example. You know, last year I really liked going. 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:49.680 Through earnings reports and seeing which companies mentioned AI and 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.080 how well they did, because there were definitely a lot 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.000 of hidden gems toward the end of last year. 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.680 That's an exercise I haven't done in a while, but 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:57.480 I still think that. 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.360 There's a lot of you know, hidden value there, especially 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.400 in those smaller tech companies that haven't gained as much favor. 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.440 Okay, does that remain when squarely the tech areas that 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.600 become generative AI adjacent or is it looking to the 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.840 healthcare implications to they? I mean, we've all looked at 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.040 energy from an infrastructure play, but energy is an application 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.440 to play as well, how you seeing other sectors adult 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:22.920 AI and help their numbers. 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:25.440 I'd speak clear. 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.080 I don't look too far into AI usage beyond you know, 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:33.200 those broader sector trends that I think every Mark Wall 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:34.320 Street expert watches. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:35.520 But I think you're right. 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:37.680 I think that there are a lot of applications that 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:41.040 you could see, especially in healthcare, especially in energy. I 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.440 think industrials are another interesting sector for the AI trade. 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.680 But I think what investors need to remember right now 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.440 is that this is a very long term story. 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:52.600 You can't judge it by one day or a few days. 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.360 This is going to take years to materialize. 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.120 So if you're looking for those unlove stocks, if you're 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:02.640 looking for those companies that might be dabbling in AI applications, 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.600 you have to be thinking about holding them for years 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:05.400 and years. 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.080 How do you find them, Kelly? How do you find 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.840 the unloved smaller stock that no one's been talking about? 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:13.440 What is it that you're going to go into from 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.120 a data perspective, from a signal perspective, Well, I. 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:17.720 Think that there. 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:19.360 I mean, I think there are still a lot of 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.360 opportunities out there. Interest rates are quite high. That's led 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.800 to a pretty thin rally over the past year or so, 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.800 and because there have been because the rally has been 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.840 so thin. To be clear, you know, I think that 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.280 there are some some companies that are maybe on the 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.080 cusp of you know, talking about AI more, you know, 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:41.000 discovering applications for AI that haven't gotten that market love 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.760 that other big tech, other more attention grabbing names have 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.120 So I think you have to look at valuations first 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.760 of all, look at valuations, you know, look at the 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:50.720 plan for earnings. 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:51.480 I don't think. 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.559 Many AI companies or AI tent uh you know, AI 0:08:56.080 --> 0:09:00.280 tangential companies are you know, seeing earnings come from you know, 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.640 AI AI applications. 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:04.600 This is still a very early story. 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.319 But I think right now, if you are a long 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.080 term investor, you can look at valuations. You can look 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.920 at you know, revenue signals that we've seen in Nvidio 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.760 and Broadcon for example, and see if there are those 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.880 early signs of uptake even management commentary. I think you 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.320 can find some pretty valuable things there. But that requires 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.840 having to you know, really parse through earnings reports and 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:26.600 listening to these earnings calls. 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:27.560 It takes a lot of work. 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.320 It takes a lot of work. That's why you get 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.920 paid the big bucks. But let's talk Kelly about the 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.960 macro picture here, because while we are in this moment 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.800 of valuations pretty high, run up significant, you've got a 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.480 FED that we're looking to cut tomorrow. How much risk 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:42.720 is there a macro policy. 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.680 I think there's a lot of risk at the moment. 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.320 And you know, right now, I still feel quite encouraged 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.680 by the economy. The economy has been incredibly resilient over 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:53.840 the past few years. 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:55.800 But the risk I see, Caroline, is. 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.920 The fact that we're leaning into this tech versus everything 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:00.960 else trade again in the month of December. 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.040 But you know, you still have a FED that isn't 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:05.599 hasn't been quite clear. 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.920 About where they will go into twenty twenty five, and 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.280 we're about to get a lot of detail around that 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:14.119 tomorrow when the FED releases its decision, and more importantly, 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.679 Jay Powell comes out and holds his forty five minute 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.080 press conference. I mean, this is a FED chair that 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.840 loves to talk about scenarios going into the future, and 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.760 I just I think markets and Wall Street are overestimating, 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.880 you know, where inflation could be, how high rates could go. 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.400 Because there still are signals of weakness in the job. 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.960 Market helicops always taking US border. We thank you, Chief 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:47.480 market strategist Harid Hold's Wealth Management Happy holidays. The EU 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.040 it's investigating TikTok, suspecting it didn't do enough to stop 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.319 fake accounts and foreign powers from interfering with the Romanian 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.160 presidential election last month. Now, the probe will look at 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.880 whether the app failed to prevent bad actors from manipulating 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.240 recommendation system and if it correctly labeled political content under 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.440 the block's Digital Services Act and stigma with TikTok here 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.160 in the US, CEO show Cho met with President elect 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.240 Donald Trump just weeks before The app is expected, of course, 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.520 to be potentially banned if it's not divested in the 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.240 US over national security concerns. Rehomrs Alexander Levine is here 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.920 and everyone is a who's who of in and out 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:23.800 at Mari a Lago at the moment, but showed Chu 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.319 is notable considering what Trump said yesterday about the little 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.000 place in his heart he has for TikTok. 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.680 Absolutely, you know, we've seen legal blow after legal blow 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:34.880 after legal blow for both TikTok and its parent company 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.440 by Dance this month alone, just as they've been trying 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.840 to fight off this law that's supposed to take effect 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.040 in January. But in pulling out all the steps, we 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.240 saw a show at Mari a Lago yesterday. And to 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.640 your point, he's not the first tech leader. We've seen 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.920 Mark zuckerbergo in recent weeks to talk to Trump and 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.040 his team. We've seen Tim Cook as well. But the 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.559 stakes are so much higher right now, with the ban 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.200 just over a month away January nineteenth. The stakes are 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.600 so much higher for show than they have been for 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:02.560 really any of the other tech leaders that have visited 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:02.920 so far. 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:04.959 And at the moment it's being thrown at the Supreme 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.199 Court store but what technically do you think of that 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.280 argument the Supreme Court. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.240 Basically TikTok has now asked the Supreme Court to take 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.000 the case because the DC Court had said that they 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.040 know they will not pause the law from taking effect, 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:23.720 and they basically upheld the law. When the Supreme Court decides, 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.480 that's going to be likely two days before the band 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:28.240 is supposed to take effect. And so you can be 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.920 sure that regardless of what the Supreme Court says come January, 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.200 that all these other companies that are going to be 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.920 on the hook for actually enforcing it, including Apple and Google, 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:41.960 most notably that preparations are definitely underway with getting ready 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:43.880 for actually pulling the app off of the app stores. 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.320 And before we get into how technically difficult and logistically 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.000 difficult that is, go back to what the Moon music 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.720 just seems internally externally when you do see Trump signaling 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:55.880 that he likes the platform at least and doesn't want 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:57.640 to fund young voters absolutely. 0:12:57.679 --> 0:12:59.720 I mean, yesterday to your point, we heard him say 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.880 sweet spot for TikTok. I think we you know, you 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:04.240 want to be able to take what he says at 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.320 face value. But then you also have to take into 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.960 consideration that he's stacking his team, his incoming team, with 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.920 all of the most outspoken anti TikTok crusaders that have 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.360 been in Congress and across the American government. And so 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.480 there's a big question about whether once he is in office, 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.600 and once he is surrounded by all of these people 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.800 who had the knowledge of you know, the knowledge that 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:26.920 got the legislation and the law across the across the 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.320 finish line in the first place, whether they may be 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.560 able to convince him not to keep the platform. 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.560 Hard to know which line to discern from Alexandra Levine 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.120 always had it putting us dissected. We thank you. Meanwhile, 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:44.200 US Citizenship and Immigration Services finalized new H one B regulations, 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:48.720 actually overhauling eligibility standards for the primary visa program used 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.960 by most tech firms. Really, the regulations issued today codify 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.800 a policy of pride deference in deciding extensions of previously 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.680 approved H one B visas. The first Trump administration had 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.839 dropped that policy, significantly slowing visa extensions. Now, let's look 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:06.800 at Mike Gallagher for a moment now as well, former 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:10.200 Congressman turned Palenteer's head a defense and he said that 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.480 the US Defense Department needs to overhaul its procurement process 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.960 for a new era of modern warfare, and he's stepping 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.160 up efforts to seed startups that can help restore the 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:22.640 country's competitive edge. Remergs Lazette Chapman spoke with him and Lizette. 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:26.280 It really feels as though this American dynamism, this defense 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:31.840 tech euphoria post election, is just continuing here. Yeah, you're 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:32.880 spot on about that. 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.680 Defense tech has been on an absolute tear for the 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.920 past four or five years, and it's only set to 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:46.520 accelerate now that there are many of these companies have 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.200 reached a critical mass, like Palentteer, like SpaceX, and like 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:51.840 some of the up and comers like andrel that we 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:52.800 get into in the story. 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.560 Yeah, let's get into the story, because ultimately you sat 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.120 down with Gala. I mean, he's a famous China Hawk 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.240 just thinking of what we were speaking with Alexandra, but 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.880 a moment ago, and he can weigh in on TikTok. 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.720 But how do you think we'll get more of a 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.200 star top friendly Department of Defense in the US. What 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:12.040 changes can be made? 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:17.280 Oh, there's so many different changes that cadre of people 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.240 on both the dem side and also the Republican side 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.880 have been pushing for for years, going back even over 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.800 a decade when Palanteer and SpaceX actually sued the US 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:30.400 government for the right to compete to win contracts. Moving 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.520 it up to date now, there are a lot of 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.800 changes to the procurement process, the process of deciding what 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:44.440 the different branches need, how it should be designed, making 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.120 sure it's interoperable for the future, and then of course 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:51.080 the process of selecting bidders and then ultimately selecting the winner. 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.440 So that whole process they want to see it really 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.520 contracted from the year's long process of doing something like 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.560 an F thirty five fighter jet to something much shorter 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.800 timeframe that better reflects the types of warfare that change, 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.080 you know, every not in terms of years, but in 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.240 terms of months or even weeks. Have we seen with 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.040 the drone and a drones and AI and a lot 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.080 of autonomous systems. In your story, they're looking to shorten that. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.320 Yeah, in your story, you highlight how Elomas cooled well, 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.840 the builders of F thirty five warplanes idiots. I mean, 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.400 he's never short on wads and descriptions, but thatte What's 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.400 interesting is about the way in which Pollenteer and Mike 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.240 Gallagher in particular, trying to foster the startup ecosystem. How 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.240 are they doing that right? 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:38.120 They're reaching out to a lot of companies through something 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.360 that they expanded they just recently expanded under under Mike Gallagher, 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:46.320 who leads Global Defense now for Palenteer, and it's. 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.480 To encourage software. 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.680 Startups that want to do business with the US government 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:57.120 to apply through Palenteer's fed Start program so that Palenteer 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.320 can host their software for fee and deal with all 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:06.000 of the accreditation issues, the different requirements all the software 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.679 updates and monitoring and keeping them up to up to 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.040 date and current. And that's a really big deal for 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:17.280 a lot of startups who have different needs from different 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.959 Every agency might have a different requirement to comply with. 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:22.119 Now, first startup with only. 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.879 Twenty people or maybe fifty people, that's very hard to 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:29.280 set up that infrastructure that takes a long period of 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.359 time they said years and you know, down to something 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.119 shorter that they can handle. That's what fed Start and 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.199 Palenteer are working to do. And it's in competition with 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.760 other companies like second Front for example, that's also looking. 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.159 To do that. Yeah, trying to reduce the compliance headache. 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.920 Is that Chatmander is a great read. Go check it out. 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.880 We appreciate you on today. Let's just talk about elsewhere 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.760 in the VC ecosystem. Data Bricks raising ten billion dollars 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.000 in new funding, a series J which brings US Software 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.720 makes valuation to a whopping sixty two billion Data Brick 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:04.880 stating it intends to invest this capital towards new AI products, acquisitions, 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.439 and significant expansion of its international go to market operations. 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.560 Now coming up some tech m and a news. Also 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:17.199 in the startup space, Grammarly acquiring coder Grammarly's incoming CEO 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:18.920 is going to be joining us next. This's is Bloomberg 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:26.200 Technology Grammily. It's the maker of AI powered writing assistance software, 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.359 and it's acquiring productivity startup Coda in a deal that 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.920 will also bring in a new CEO, Shashi Marotra. It's 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.680 currently the co founder and CEO of Coda and is 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:37.920 lated to take over the top job at the combined 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.520 Grammarly joins us now for more on the deal. So 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.480 coming together productivity tools, what do you offer as one? 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.120 Yeah, I'm really excited about this opportunity Coda joining with Germily. 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.439 I've been personal user of the product for many years, 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.960 really drawn to the innovative approach, passionate people. But the 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.159 reason that's happened was the leaders of both companies that 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.560 got together and just painted our vision for the future, 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.240 what we saw with the future of AI productivity, and 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.879 it just turned out that our view was near identical. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.160 We both saw the technology evolving to what we call 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:13.240 user centered AI and a future world where the applications 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.640 we use won't feel as isolated, siloed, rigid that we're 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.320 used today, instead really focused on the user adapted to 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.879 each person, their teams, their roles. So we're going to 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.720 be building a user centered AI platform or the future 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.480 for focused on applications and agents for everybody. 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:33.120 It's a competitive space. I hear agents being named by startup, 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.959 by large publicly traded business alike, and I hear of 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.159 you know, Apple trying to integrate trying to make my 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.560 email flow easier. How are you going to compete against 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:42.920 big tech as well as startups? 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.280 Yeah, I mean, maybe just start with the term agent. 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:48.000 I know, it's a hot term everybody is using these days. 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.399 I think of Grammarly as actually the original AI agent. 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.199 I mean, it's about forty million users use We use 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.400 Grammarly every day, goes through about two hundred billion words 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.880 a day, and one of the key things about that 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.440 agent is that it works right alongside you. One of 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:05.800 the big innovations that Garmley has worked on is that 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.639 instead of forcing to go to some other place, it 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.760 follows you into every different surface. About five hundred thousand 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:15.679 different applications that have been integrated with with Grammarly. One 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:17.600 of the terms the Granmarley team likes to use I've 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.000 really loved is the idea that they've built this AI 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:24.520 super highway and it's the gateway to have agents actually 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.359 work with you in every other tool. But one observation 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:29.560 is right now there's sort of only one car running 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.640 on that highway that the Grammarly tool set today. It's amazing, 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:34.760 but what it does is just help you with your 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.760 with your proof reading. And one of the things we're 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:39.000 going to do is we're going to take one of 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:40.639 the most popular parts of the Code of Product, we 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.679 call it Code of Brain, which is a network of 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.520 hundreds of integrations into all your all of your back 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:47.679 end systems, and we're going to turn them into agents 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.000 on this platform. And so what you can imagine is 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:55.520 instead of interacting with Grammarly as just a proof reading agent, 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.320 you can imagine that now the suggestion that come to 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.320 you will help you draft consents, can help you structure 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.679 customer conversations, can help you update your CRM systems, and 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.720 we can really bring agents right to the user's that's 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:09.040 one of the main things we'll be working on. 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.240 Shisha. You said how your goals of the two companies 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.159 were basically completely in line. Is the goal and IPO 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.119 in line as well. When you're looking at the changes 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:22.000 made of Grammarly, new CTO from Instacart, new CFO coming 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.560 from Hashi Corp. You with your background at YouTube and 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.239 big companies as well as startups, it looks as though 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:28.200 you're destined for an IPO. 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:29.560 You know. 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.200 I think I think the goal is to build an 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.919 enduring company, and I think that in this sort of 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.000 crazy world of AI changing everything we work on, I 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:42.879 think it's a very smallest of companies that can have 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:47.639 that meaningful platform to really be that that future of AI. 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.960 I think the approach of Grammarly and now with CODA, 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:53.159 I think we can really be at the forefront of that. 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:55.640 And yeah, we'd like to be one of those top 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:57.800 three or four companies that people think of when they 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.560 think about the AI tools for for their world to share. 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:05.040 Rotra, thank you for coming on incoming, CEO of Grammarly, 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:14.960 Welcome back to the new meg Technology. Karen Hide in 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:16.800 New York. Quick check on your markets. Look, we're all 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:19.560 eyes on the FED tomorrow and digesting some retail data 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:22.760 today that still shows the US economy is going strong. 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:23.439 Go new. 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:25.280 Sometimes bad news. Then as that one hundred fourth, sir, 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:26.879 it's record high. We're off by just three tens and 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:29.280 percent chip makers on the downside, in particular some profit 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:31.440 taking over at Broadcom. Move on and have a look 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.600 at what's happening in individual movers when it comes to 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.320 the crypto space as well. Bitcoin still up at one 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:37.960 point one hundred and eight thousand, We're one hundred and 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:40.360 six thousand as we trade, are still holding onto those 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:43.199 record highs. Micro strategy though, just seeing a bit of 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:45.760 profit taking show, we say, after a five hundred percent 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:48.480 run up this year, of course, basically a Bitcoin proxy 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.679 entering the Nasdaq one hundred on Friday, many feeling this 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.520 will be the beginning of a momentum trade. But how 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:57.199 much of this is a priced in already? Much of that, 0:22:57.280 --> 0:22:59.760 of course, is because sectors like crypto are continuing to 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:02.879 out following the election of Trump. How is broader hiring? 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.639 How is startup optimism? Payrolls processing company Gusto has a 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:09.520 bird's eye perspective. Hr startup has announced, in fact, a 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:13.200 new partnership with zero. It's a leading accounting software platform 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.600 for small businesses motally lad Let's ask Gusto CEO and 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:18.720 co founder Josh Reeves, It's great to have you here. 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:20.720 Pleasure to be here. Thanks, Carolyn. So let's talk about 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:23.120 the partnership and why you're focusing on small and you're 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.080 already a provider to an awful lot of small and 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:29.439 medium sized enterprises, why furrow that even more so? 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.000 We're thrilled to support and serve over four hundred thousand 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:35.159 small businesses today. And one of the things we realized 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.360 a couple of years ago is you have small businesses 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:39.639 that are going to use Gusto directly, but there's a 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:42.800 lot of small businesses out there served by existing platforms 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:45.760 LEG zero and zero focuses like you mentioned on accounting. 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:48.080 A lot of these other platforms do not want to 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:51.200 go build things like payroll themselves, and so we created 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:54.560 this industry called embedded payroll, which is basically the ability 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:56.880 for folks legs zero and that's what we're announcing today 0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:00.320 to launch their own payroll products powered by Gusta, so 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:03.320 more analogous to that stripe type business model, and we're 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:04.800 really excited about it because it's a way for us 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:06.920 to reach more small businesses where they're. 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:10.760 At and are they ultimately underserved at the moment Because 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.520 your startup space is a busy one, there are plenty 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:17.560 of hr payroll startups trying to be the be all 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:19.840 and end all to everyone. How are you finding that 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:21.760 small medium sized enterprise space. 0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:24.199 Yeah, so I always loved reminding folks there's more dentist 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:26.840 offices in the US than tech startups. So we really 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.200 do obsess over and zero does as well, and a 0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:31.119 lot of our partners. Actually, we're thrilled to partner with 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:35.200 a number of companies, including Chase Payment Solutions, to basically 0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:38.720 bring modern, delightful payroll to where they're at in a 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:41.840 more accessible, intuitive way. Saves them time, saves the money, 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:45.040 prevents mistakes, filing issues, and we've built now ten plus 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:48.119 years of infrastructure processing over half a trillion dollars of 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:50.639 payroll to really earn that credibility and be who these 0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:52.960 partners want to choose when they're building out their own 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:53.680 payroll products. 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:55.480 Interestingly, I don't think a dentist office is going to 0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:57.359 be hiring many people abroad, but you've been trying to 0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:00.080 focus on this making it easier to hire internationally. So 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:02.280 we're getting the news today that H one b's, for example, 0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:04.520 are going to be overhauled and streamlined made easier by 0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:08.320 the current administration. How are people's propensity to hiring abroad 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:09.199 at this moment, so. 0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:11.600 It really depends on industry. With Gusto, you do have 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:15.320 the ability to hire both contractors and employees internationally. I'd 0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:19.399 say there's been more resonance on the contractors side, but again, 0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:22.800 many many products that we're expanding into International is just one. 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:25.440 We offer a lot of functionality around time tracking for 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:29.000 one K, business insurance, all the different pain points. It's 0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:31.280 really hard still to run and start a small business, 0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:32.880 and our job is to make that easier. 0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:37.680 It's hard to run a startup, even as successful as yours. 0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:40.399 You haven't raised money since twenty twenty one, ultimately because 0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:44.159 looking at your profitability you don't need to. But what 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:46.840 is the pressure on you to IPO to have an exit? 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:49.840 Is it? Are you finding that the competitive mode when 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:52.320 your versus a deal or a rippling is getting harder 0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:53.520 or is it fine? 0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:55.640 We welcome the competition. We want to be the best 0:25:55.640 --> 0:25:58.400 product in the market. We believe we are. We're also 0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:01.440 just only one deck into this journey. We talk about 0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:04.160 it being a multi decade journey, so at some point 0:26:04.160 --> 0:26:06.200 in the future we will be public. Nothing to share 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:08.879 there but really our obsession is on how do we 0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:12.639 give the best possible experience to those customers and do 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:14.439 that through our actions, through the work we put in, 0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:16.800 and also through the partnerships we signed with folks like Zero. 0:26:17.280 --> 0:26:20.320 And the talent you have when you're lying in bed 0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:22.240 and you've got something on your mind, does it tend 0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:24.920 to be talent acquisition? Is it about general to AI? 0:26:24.960 --> 0:26:26.040 What are you thinking most about? 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:29.880 Mostly thinking about team building and as we, like you said, 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:33.000 have free cash flow, positive, a solid business model, real 0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:36.200 customer need that we're really delivering true value for We're 0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:39.400 being very aggressive reinvesting that capital, that free cash flow 0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:44.560 into building new products, building additional services for our customers 0:26:44.600 --> 0:26:47.200 to use, and so that usually means hiring. Team building 0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:50.320 and I'm doing a lot of time these days interviewing candidates. 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:52.920 As is the life of a CEO. Josh, it's great 0:26:52.920 --> 0:26:54.679 to have you. Thanks for something by as you're in 0:26:54.680 --> 0:26:58.359 New York is of course the CEO of Gusto joshes them. Meanwhile, 0:26:58.400 --> 0:27:01.360 coming up these spotlight upon us, we'll talk consumer investing. 0:27:01.600 --> 0:27:04.960 In twenty twenty five, Shamin Walch is with US managing 0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:09.520 director at BAM Ventures Plus a conversation with Minnesota Senator 0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:12.600 Amy clovershah all about antitrust. You don't want to miss it. 0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:33.600 This is Blue Beg technology. We want to just take 0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:36.440 a look at consumer investing trends right now after retail 0:27:36.480 --> 0:27:39.000 sales looks so good today? Were they looking like into 0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:41.719 twenty twenty five. BAM Ventures is going to join us 0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:43.960 in VC Spotlight. The firm's portfolio boasts some of the 0:27:44.000 --> 0:27:47.399 biggest names in consumer investing like Zolar nerd Walt, Wanderley, 0:27:47.840 --> 0:27:51.480 Band Ventures managing director Shaman Walt joins us for now 0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:55.679 for more. And it's interesting that maybe consumer bets we 0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:58.439 all know them because we use them, but perhaps they 0:27:58.440 --> 0:28:01.520 haven't got the valuations of semi conducted a software space 0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:04.199 of late. But what does consumer resiliency look like? 0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:08.560 Well, first off, Caroline, good morning, and I wanted to 0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:12.199 thank you for having me here and for those who 0:28:12.280 --> 0:28:14.520 may not be familiar with me. As Caroline said, I'm 0:28:14.520 --> 0:28:17.480 a managing director at dand Ventures. We're a pre seed 0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:20.480 and seed consumer focus fund based in Los Angeles and 0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:23.359 built by the founders of billion dollar public companies like 0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:27.000 Legal Zoom, an Honest Company. And then as you mentioned, yeah, 0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:30.640 you know the privilege of investing early in household names 0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:35.000 like sweet Grains, snaps, cope ly nerd Wallet, et cetera. 0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:39.680 And to your question, you know, it's interesting because I 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:45.320 think valuations are what catch headlines, but we often underestimate 0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:49.840 the inputs that it takes to get to those numbers 0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:53.640 and also the equity breakdown. So, for example, you know, 0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:56.360 a company that exits for five billion dollars is an 0:28:56.760 --> 0:28:59.160 eye popping amount, but when you look at the cap 0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:02.000 table and you see that a founder, you know, on 0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:04.640 two percent of that business, they actually made less than 0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:07.840 a company where the founder owned twenty five percent of 0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:11.440 a five hundred million dollar exit. So the valuations are 0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:14.960 often you know, a particular on the brand side may 0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:17.640 not be there on the text, of course they do 0:29:17.720 --> 0:29:22.280 have that potential, but you know, the equity outcomes for 0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:25.280 the investors and the founder, as you'd be surprised to see, 0:29:25.320 --> 0:29:26.960 are often much better. 0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:30.360 Yeah, and so you're very much trying to align oneself 0:29:30.480 --> 0:29:32.920 with the founder and with their own legal background. I'm 0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:35.600 sure you're ensuring that they maintain a lot of holding 0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:38.520 and serve themselves well by having ownership of the business 0:29:38.520 --> 0:29:41.840 as it matures and takes funding. What then about finding 0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:44.160 these diamonds in the rough. How are you deciding, Okay, 0:29:44.200 --> 0:29:47.000 this is a startup, a consumer facing startup that is 0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:48.640 it a pivot point is about to go up into 0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:49.200 the right. 0:29:50.640 --> 0:29:53.280 We have this internal mantra that we like to we 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:55.640 say that we have to love the founder and not 0:29:55.720 --> 0:29:58.440 hate the idea at the stage that we invest it 0:29:58.480 --> 0:30:01.840 truly is about the founders, and you know we we 0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:04.920 we love what we call the silent assassins, the folks 0:30:04.960 --> 0:30:09.520 that are focused on building their business, who know their customer, 0:30:09.680 --> 0:30:12.720 who know how people actually operate. You know, there are 0:30:12.760 --> 0:30:15.920 a lot of things that we theoretically would like to 0:30:15.960 --> 0:30:18.160 exist or like to do. You know, I'd love to 0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:20.440 be the fittest woman in the world, but you know, 0:30:20.480 --> 0:30:23.360 maybe I won't put the effort and time into an 0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:27.000 exercise regime or counting my macro nutrients. And the founders 0:30:27.000 --> 0:30:30.720 that actually understand how people, you know, live and behave 0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:34.040 and what gets them to a purchase decision is really 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:35.040 what we're looking for. 0:30:35.320 --> 0:30:37.440 And do they do that via EQ? Are they doing 0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:39.560 that through data? What do you want to see when 0:30:39.720 --> 0:30:43.640 one founder that you don't hate the idea of comes 0:30:43.680 --> 0:30:44.240 and pitches you. 0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:48.640 Yeah, I think, I think it's both, and I think. 0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:53.440 More importantly it's around understanding not only their consumer but 0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:56.800 themselves as well what their strengths and weaknesses are. 0:30:56.840 --> 0:30:57.760 So, if there are. 0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:01.040 Incredibly data driven, maybe they have hire a team that 0:31:01.160 --> 0:31:04.320 is very EQ and brand driven, or vice versa. If 0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:07.080 they're incredibly brand driven, then they hire a team who 0:31:07.160 --> 0:31:11.040 understands operational efficiencies and knows that, you know, they need 0:31:11.080 --> 0:31:13.760 to hit their margins. And so I think the most 0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:16.080 important thing we look for is a founder who understands 0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:18.920 their customers, as I mentioned, but also who knows how 0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:20.120 to hire around them. 0:31:20.600 --> 0:31:24.000 Look, you've been at Angel Investing for more than seventeen years, 0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:26.840 You've been in your seat at bound benures for a 0:31:26.920 --> 0:31:29.920 number of years, and what are valuations like at this 0:31:30.000 --> 0:31:32.560 particular moment. How are you looking into twenty twenty five 0:31:32.600 --> 0:31:35.600 and thinking about whether these are the right sort of 0:31:35.680 --> 0:31:37.400 checks to be writing at the right valuation. 0:31:38.320 --> 0:31:40.800 Yeah, I think that we. 0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:42.680 Are. 0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:48.200 In Valuations are very specific to the sectors right now. 0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:52.160 You know, you hear about the buzzwords of AI or crypto, 0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:56.480 and they can command a hefty evaluation. They also are 0:31:56.600 --> 0:32:01.160 very capital intensive, I think, to the point I was 0:32:01.200 --> 0:32:03.640 making it at the beginning around the inputs and the output. 0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:07.560 A lot of times funds will back into valuations based 0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:09.760 on how much they need to deploy, and it may 0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:12.800 be detached from how much a company itself. 0:32:12.520 --> 0:32:13.280 Is actually worth. 0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:16.120 If you're a large fund and you need to write 0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:18.520 ten million dollar checks and you love a particular category 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:20.800 and you give them ten ten million dollars, then you 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:24.080 need to back into evaluation from there, as opposed to 0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:26.960 investing in a company they may not need as much. 0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:30.440 It's interesting that you said crypto is sort of the buzzword, 0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:33.800 and sure, bitcoins have been the buzzword, micro strategy been 0:32:33.800 --> 0:32:35.760 in the buzzword. But all are we seeing more and 0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:39.560 more founders coming to you with a Web three adjacent 0:32:39.640 --> 0:32:42.080 company now or consume a focus that is building in 0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:44.040 Web three once again? Are we at that stage of 0:32:44.040 --> 0:32:46.120 the cycle we are? 0:32:46.520 --> 0:32:48.760 We see a lot of founders who have a Web 0:32:48.840 --> 0:32:52.480 three component. I do see it having come back into vogue, 0:32:53.400 --> 0:32:58.400 and like I mentioned, AI is the mode. 0:32:58.320 --> 0:33:02.000 Jour And to that point, when you're consumer founder, is 0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:05.160 it just that you want to see AI boosting productivity 0:33:05.200 --> 0:33:08.200 internally rather than trying to back themselves into a generative 0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:08.920 AI business. 0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:12.760 Do you mean what we look for as investors or 0:33:12.760 --> 0:33:14.280 what founders are pursuing these days. 0:33:14.360 --> 0:33:16.239 Yeah, what a founder's pursue. What are you seeing and 0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:20.280 what are you wanting? Briefly, Yeah, well what we're wanting. 0:33:20.880 --> 0:33:24.280 The way that we think about AI is the way 0:33:24.280 --> 0:33:26.360 we think about the Internet. You know, It's like if 0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:28.280 a founder came to us and told us they're building 0:33:28.280 --> 0:33:31.480 an Internet company. I think it's ubiquitous, it's necessary, it 0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:35.239 is the future for us. We're really looking at, you know, 0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:37.760 the other elements that will make you a successful business, 0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:41.400 what your distribution, your team, sales and marketing, the AI itself. 0:33:41.480 --> 0:33:45.000 For us particularly and at our fund size is not 0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:48.840 the sole determinant of whether a company is attractive or not, 0:33:49.200 --> 0:33:51.840 and I think founders are catching on to that as well. 0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:54.320 I think there was a period of time we're just 0:33:54.360 --> 0:34:03.480 adding a dot aih was they thought was changing things 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:06.600 in terms of activeness. But I think at this point 0:34:06.760 --> 0:34:11.319 founders are starting to realize we need to show some 0:34:11.600 --> 0:34:12.960 differentiation beyond that. 0:34:13.560 --> 0:34:16.320 Well, said Schaman Welch, an Asian director at ban Benches. 0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:19.160 Thank you so much for your time today. Now let's 0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:21.759 just talk about Senate Judiciary Subcommittee set to here on 0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:24.200 anti trust and legal experts. Let's get to Kaylee Lines 0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:24.760 in Washington. 0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:29.719 I'd like to welcome our global Bloomberg television and radio audiences. 0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:34.080 I'm joined in conversation by Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, 0:34:34.120 --> 0:34:37.319 live from Capitol Hill. Senator, thank you very much for 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.280 being here. You are leading a subcommittee hearing today titled 0:34:40.280 --> 0:34:45.680 Continuing a Bipartisan Path Forward for Antitrust Enforcement and Reform. 0:34:45.719 --> 0:34:48.279 And I do wonder, in what will become January a 0:34:48.360 --> 0:34:52.120 Republican controlled Congress and bill members and White House, what 0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:54.480 that bipartisan path actually looks like. 0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:57.840 Okay, well, first of all, thanks for having me on, Kaylee. 0:34:57.880 --> 0:34:58.759 It's great to be on. 0:34:59.000 --> 0:35:02.440 And I think what you've seen in this area of antitrust, 0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:07.279 you've seen some broad bipartisan agreement on a number of 0:35:07.320 --> 0:35:08.120 these cases. 0:35:08.200 --> 0:35:08.399 Right. 0:35:08.560 --> 0:35:13.399 For instance, the Google case started under the Trump administration, 0:35:13.640 --> 0:35:16.880 the first Trump administration, as did the Facebook case that 0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:19.800 was at the FTC. Google was at the Justice Department. 0:35:20.400 --> 0:35:25.200 Then it proceeded through the Biden administration. Biden administration also 0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:31.080 brought some major cases, for instance against Ticketmaster and other companies, 0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:34.800 and so you've seen a more aggressive anti trust enforcement 0:35:34.880 --> 0:35:38.000 over the last few years. Now you have a new 0:35:38.120 --> 0:35:41.960 appointees going in place, and at least one of them 0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:46.440 I have heard the belief is over at the Justice 0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:50.680 Department with some former Democratic anti trust enforcers that she 0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:53.480 knows what she's doing. I'm looking forward to meeting with her, 0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:58.400 Gail Slater, and I'm hoping that we will continue those cases. 0:35:58.960 --> 0:36:02.160 I love competition, Okay, I like capitalism. That's why I'm 0:36:02.160 --> 0:36:03.600 for anti trust enforcement. 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:07.960 Well, you've mentioned Gail Slater. What about Andrew Ferguson. Do 0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:10.799 you think he loves the issue of competition in the 0:36:10.840 --> 0:36:12.799 same way that you do. Do you trust that the 0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:15.120 FTC will be in good hands under his leadership? 0:36:15.600 --> 0:36:17.719 You know, I am looking forward to meeting with him. 0:36:17.719 --> 0:36:20.759 Interestingly enough, we do not confirm that position because he 0:36:20.840 --> 0:36:25.040 was already on the commission. There is a new member 0:36:25.120 --> 0:36:28.040 that is being appointed on the Republican side. I'll note 0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:31.120 that he also he wrote a piece on the breakup 0:36:31.160 --> 0:36:34.160 of Ticketmaster in which he favored that. So I just 0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:37.719 think with anti trust because at its core, it is 0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:42.600 about competition, and it's been laggered for many decades, and 0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:45.440 as a result, we're seeing more and more consolidation. It 0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:47.920 isn't that big companies are bad. It's that sometimes when 0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:51.280 you have no competition, then you start getting less innovation, 0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:55.360 more high prices, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm actually 0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:57.560 really excited about this center. Lee and I are doing 0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:00.760 this together, this hearing center. Grassing and I have passed 0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:03.120 our bill together, and I think you're going to continue 0:37:03.120 --> 0:37:06.120 to see interest in tech. Fact Center, Cruise and I 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:10.680 did a joint interview this morning and bill that we 0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:13.719 have gotten through the Senate on taking online porn off 0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:17.120 the Internet different than anti trust. However, You're just going 0:37:17.200 --> 0:37:19.720 to continue to see bipartisan work on tech. 0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:22.960 Well, I'm glad that you have brought up the Take 0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:25.480 It Down Act, which you co sponsored with Senator Cruz. 0:37:26.000 --> 0:37:29.600 Is that trying to tackle symptoms of an underlying disease 0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:32.480 rather than the disease itself. And the disease I'm referring 0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:34.839 to here is unregulated artificial intelligence. 0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:39.120 Thanks, I really would like to put in some rules 0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:42.600 of the road on AI. And this bill is actually 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:47.200 broader than just AI pornographic is pictures. It's actually also 0:37:47.320 --> 0:37:51.359 real pictures as well as AI created ones. We're now 0:37:51.400 --> 0:37:54.399 seeing one in twelve Americans saying that they have been 0:37:54.440 --> 0:37:56.600 a victim or no, someone that's a victim of this. 0:37:56.920 --> 0:37:59.960 We've had twenty suicides in one year of young kids. 0:38:00.239 --> 0:38:04.640 Twenty suicides because someone a girlfriend, boyfriend, someone they knew 0:38:04.800 --> 0:38:07.200 put up their photo. They were embarrassed that their friends 0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:09.799 and their family would know, and they killed themselves. These 0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:13.600 are FBI statistics. So Senator Cruse and I came together 0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:15.839 to build us two things. One make it clearly a 0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:20.399 crime to use pornographic imagery of someone else, whether it's 0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:23.680 AI created or real. And then number two, that the 0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:26.040 platforms have to take it down. That's why it's called 0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:29.200 the Take It Down Act. They take down other violations 0:38:29.239 --> 0:38:32.120 of intellectual property and the fact that people can be 0:38:32.160 --> 0:38:35.440 abused in this way to the point of committing suicide. 0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:40.479 And in one case that I know of, Senator Cruz's case, 0:38:40.480 --> 0:38:43.040 he actually had a call Snapchat to get the image 0:38:43.080 --> 0:38:46.560 down after months of this victim from his state dealing 0:38:46.560 --> 0:38:46.920 with it. 0:38:47.080 --> 0:38:47.880 That's just wrong. 0:38:49.719 --> 0:38:51.600 Senator, I'd like to ask you about another one of 0:38:51.640 --> 0:38:55.040 your colleagues, your fellow Democrats, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, 0:38:55.080 --> 0:38:58.000 wrote a letter we understand, to President elect Donald Trump 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:01.200 asking for firm conflict of interest rules to be put 0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:04.319 into place. Related to Elon Musk, who, of course has 0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:07.120 been tapped to co lead this new Department of Government Efficiency, 0:39:07.160 --> 0:39:09.560 have you had any conversations with Senator Warren about that, 0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:12.160 or at the very least you share in that sentiment. 0:39:13.239 --> 0:39:15.880 Now, I haven't seen this letter, but I will say 0:39:15.960 --> 0:39:19.879 that I believe that we need conflict of interest rules 0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:23.560 in place for people who are making major decisions in 0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:28.040 the government. That is what our people have done voluntarily 0:39:28.920 --> 0:39:31.439 for years now. And you have a number of very 0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:34.880 wealthy people going into the Trump administration. There's been wealthy 0:39:35.560 --> 0:39:38.480 people as well under Democratic administration, but you have a 0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:42.520 number of them coming in and we need the conflict 0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:45.040 rules in force, and we need to know that the 0:39:45.080 --> 0:39:47.600 decisions they are making are not for their own interest 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:49.840 but for the interests of the American people. And I 0:39:49.840 --> 0:39:52.440 would hope that President elect Trump agrees. 0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:57.680 Finally. President Elect Trump yesterday met with the CEO of 0:39:57.719 --> 0:40:00.200 TikTok Show Too at mar A Lago, after saying in 0:40:00.239 --> 0:40:03.040 a news conference Senator that he is a warm spot 0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:04.839 in his heart for TikTok. When asked if you would 0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:07.000 like to see the band go through or will try 0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:08.759 to stop it. Given some of the issues we have 0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:12.160 already discussed around technology in particular and what is propagated 0:40:12.520 --> 0:40:14.799 on these platforms, what is your view about whether that 0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:17.239 band should be enforced come January. 0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:21.719 Of course, this came out of Congress with strong bipartisan support, 0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:25.399 and there are two avenues here. One is that they 0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:28.800 can follow the law and divest and find a buyer 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:31.719 for the company, and the second is that they still 0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:35.120 are appealing to the Supreme Court. So my view has 0:40:35.160 --> 0:40:38.280 been that we should have rules of the road in place, 0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:41.160 by the way, for all platforms. I have been way 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:43.640 out there, as I think you know, in terms of 0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:50.000 getting not just pornography off the Internet, but other very 0:40:50.160 --> 0:40:52.799 very difficult things that are on there right now, and 0:40:52.840 --> 0:40:54.680 that we should have a better policing of that, and 0:40:54.719 --> 0:40:57.920 people should have the right to protect their own intellectual properties, 0:40:58.239 --> 0:41:01.920 and also that we should have antitrust enforcement. You just 0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:04.959 can't have, say, Google, with a ninety percent market share 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:07.920 on the search engine and not have any competition and 0:41:07.960 --> 0:41:11.279 then allow them to self preference, as we see with 0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:13.800 Amazon and other companies their own. 0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:14.680 Products at the top. 0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:18.120 That's why the NFIB, which is not a liberal organization, 0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:22.759 the National Federation of Independent Businesses, is strongly supporting the 0:41:22.760 --> 0:41:25.719 bill that I have with Senator Grassley, which simply puts 0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:27.839 some rules in the road in place for a competition 0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:28.640 on the internet. 0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:33.319 All right, Democratic Senator Amy Klobaschar of Minnesota joining us 0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:36.080 live from Capitol Hill on Bloomberg Television and Radio. Thank 0:41:36.120 --> 0:41:37.799 you so much, and I'll send it back to you 0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:38.479 in New York. 0:41:39.000 --> 0:41:43.200 Kaylie Lyns, we thank you, Senator Amy Clobshaw on Minnesota 0:41:43.280 --> 0:41:46.719 as well. Let's just break all of this down politics 0:41:46.719 --> 0:41:48.920 intersecting with technology. We do that with Blue Meggs, Mike 0:41:48.920 --> 0:41:52.240 Shephard and just going to the bipath is in nature 0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:55.440 of anti trust focus, it does feel as though many 0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:59.040 interpret Trump administration well business friendly, but he's put some 0:41:59.040 --> 0:42:02.840 people in seats that have really critical eyes on companies 0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:03.480 such as Google. 0:42:04.400 --> 0:42:07.480 That's certainly been our sense as we've reported out Trump's 0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:10.520 selections for these key positions, including the head of the 0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:14.200 Anti trust division at the Justice Department and the person 0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:17.440 who would succeed Lena Kahn at the Federal Trade Commission. 0:42:17.680 --> 0:42:20.279 And now we've heard it from Amy Klobuchra herself, the 0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:24.840 Senator from Minnesota, who has really spearheaded efforts in Congress 0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:28.600 in the Senate on this area of competition enforcement, and 0:42:28.640 --> 0:42:32.319 she is signaling some optimism that the incoming Trump team 0:42:32.719 --> 0:42:35.360 will not divert too much from the playbook when it 0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:38.839 comes to cracking down on areas, especially big tech, where 0:42:38.840 --> 0:42:42.040 we've seen a lot of concentration of market power. We 0:42:42.120 --> 0:42:44.399 saw her reference Google at the very end of her 0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:47.839 remarks to our colleague Kayley Liones, Yeah, and. 0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:50.720 Saying that she's looking forward to meeting with Andrew Ferguson 0:42:50.760 --> 0:42:53.799 as well. Mike, I want to shift more broadly into 0:42:53.840 --> 0:42:57.319 the context of technology and the next administration, because there 0:42:57.400 --> 0:42:59.719 is a merry go round at Mara Lago at the 0:42:59.719 --> 0:43:02.200 moment of all the key names in tech, whether it 0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:05.480 be Netflix, we know, Bezos's jew we have just had 0:43:05.520 --> 0:43:08.759 show cho Is it really a key focus on technology 0:43:08.760 --> 0:43:09.280 in the future. 0:43:10.120 --> 0:43:13.439 Well, it really has been a parade of these high 0:43:13.480 --> 0:43:17.360 profile CEOs going in to meet with President elect Donald 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:20.200 Trump to have their cases heard and to hear a 0:43:20.239 --> 0:43:23.520 little bit from him themselves so that they understand a 0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:25.719 little bit how to relate with him. Think of it 0:43:25.719 --> 0:43:29.200 as corporate diplomacy, but a two way Street. Trump really 0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:32.840 likes to exercise that sort of function of his office 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:35.440 to reach out to CEOs in the way that a 0:43:35.520 --> 0:43:38.120 president would also reach out to heads of state. He 0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:41.399 likes that kind of engagement. We saw it in action 0:43:41.600 --> 0:43:44.200 so much during his first term in office, and now 0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:46.720 we're already seeing signs of it now as he prepares 0:43:46.760 --> 0:43:49.920 to return to the White House. And for these companies, 0:43:49.960 --> 0:43:52.600 it's a chance for them to be heard, especially for 0:43:52.640 --> 0:43:56.120 shout Chew. His company is facing this existential question of 0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:59.360 a band that could take effect as soon as January nineteenth. 0:44:00.040 --> 0:44:04.080 That is an existential question for TikTok other companies maybe 0:44:04.080 --> 0:44:06.200 going in and saying, look, my key worry here is 0:44:06.280 --> 0:44:09.439 talent and access to talent. One of the most read 0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:11.960 stories on the Bloomberg today and across the web is 0:44:11.960 --> 0:44:14.480 about h one B visas, how the current administration, how 0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:17.920 the current US decision and am Immigration Services are basically 0:44:18.400 --> 0:44:23.120 making final changes to making it easier, more streamlined. Is 0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:25.560 that something that might be upended by the next administration. 0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:26.719 What's hiring going to look like? 0:44:27.480 --> 0:44:29.880 Well, there is a risk of that happening, of course, 0:44:29.920 --> 0:44:33.320 And one of the concerns that companies, not just tech companies, 0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:36.560 but tech companies in particular in reference to the H 0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:40.960 one B program, they're only eighty five thousand visas available 0:44:41.080 --> 0:44:45.360 every year. They're really coveted. The competition is really really 0:44:45.400 --> 0:44:48.880 stiff for them. And tech companies need that workforce of 0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:51.880 skilled workers with a dance degrees to be able to 0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:57.840 propel their development of the latest technologies, and any change 0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:00.600 to their program is a disturbance and force and at 0:45:00.719 --> 0:45:04.640 risks impeding their progress. During the last Trump administration, they 0:45:04.640 --> 0:45:07.800 had dropped a policy known as prior deference, which helped 0:45:07.800 --> 0:45:10.960 grease the skids for some of these applications. And this 0:45:11.040 --> 0:45:15.440 policy was just codified reinstated with rules that were finalized 0:45:15.480 --> 0:45:21.080 today by the Customs and Immigration Service and the Department 0:45:21.080 --> 0:45:24.839 of Homeland Security. What we want to see, what we're 0:45:24.840 --> 0:45:28.200 looking for going ahead as a Trump team takes office, 0:45:28.320 --> 0:45:30.560 is what will they do there as they try to 0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:32.680 address the broader question of the border. 0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:36.520 Mike Shepherd bringing it all together for us from Washington. 0:45:36.640 --> 0:45:39.759 Thank you very much. Indeed, now that does it. From 0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:42.200 this edition in Bloomberg Technology, You do not want to 0:45:42.239 --> 0:45:44.320 forget to check out our podcast. Find it on the 0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:47.640 terminal as well as online on Apple Spotify and iHeart 0:45:48.120 --> 0:45:49.280 this is blue bag technology.