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Speaker 1: You're listening to Disinformed, a mini series from There Are

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Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet. I'm Bridget Todd. What a

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Speaker 1: ride it has ben y'all, And as we wrap up

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Speaker 1: this season if there Are No Girls on the Internet,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to take a look back of where we've

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Speaker 1: been and where we're going. I started making this series

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Speaker 1: about disinformation and conspiracy theories online right after the insurrection

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Speaker 1: on January six. I live in d C, so that

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Speaker 1: happened just a mile or so from my apartment, so

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Speaker 1: it really felt like an attack on my home and

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Speaker 1: I felt like I couldn't not respond. But from breaking

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Speaker 1: down TikTok sex trafficking conspiracy theories to calling out Gwyneth

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Speaker 1: Paltrow for pushing misinformation to women, I could never have

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Speaker 1: imagined all the places this conversation would take us. I

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Speaker 1: sat down with my producer Mike to try to put

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Speaker 1: it all together. Well, hey, Bridget, thanks for joining me

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Speaker 1: here for this wrap up episode of season two of

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Speaker 1: their No Girls on the Internet Disinformed. How how are

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Speaker 1: you feeling about the successful completion of season two. I'm

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Speaker 1: feeling good. Uh. It's been a fun season. I feel

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Speaker 1: like we've dove in Gove dived. I feel like we've

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Speaker 1: gotten into so many different topics. Uh, it's almost kind

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Speaker 1: of hard to wrap up because I feel like when

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Speaker 1: we started the season, I had no idea where the

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Speaker 1: topic was going to take us, and um, when we

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Speaker 1: first started back in January to where we ended up

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Speaker 1: in the end of the season, I could never never

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Speaker 1: predicted where we would go. M But I guess that's

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Speaker 1: the Internet for you. You don't know you know the

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Speaker 1: story that you're telling until you tell it. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: Internet and disinformation, which is just people making up new

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Speaker 1: stuff all the time. What has been your favorite topic

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Speaker 1: that you covered in this season? So hard to choose.

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Speaker 1: A couple of episodes that sort of spoke to the

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Speaker 1: same theme. UM one with the former Pinterest employee of

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Speaker 1: Foma Zoma who if you didn't listen, I haven't heard

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Speaker 1: that episode. She essentially was an early hire on pinterest

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Speaker 1: public policy team. Very early on she got the company

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Speaker 1: to ban medical misinformation. This was before COVID, So for me,

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Speaker 1: it was like a very classic you know, black women

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Speaker 1: tried to tell you if all you would listen kind

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Speaker 1: of moment. But finding out that she was docked and

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Speaker 1: like harassed and abused by her own co workers, essentially

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Speaker 1: doing her job. I think that if I had to

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Speaker 1: sum up some of the episodes along a theme, that

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Speaker 1: theme would be marginalized people, namely black women, fighting tooth

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Speaker 1: and nail to make Internet spaces safer and better for

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Speaker 1: everybody right now just for other black women or other

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Speaker 1: marginalized people. Everybody benefits, but really fac seeing a material

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Speaker 1: cost for doing that work and sort of having that

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Speaker 1: work sort of be kind of costly for us or personally,

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Speaker 1: you know, costly for us. Another example on that same

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Speaker 1: line would be Sharine mitchell Um. We their an episode

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Speaker 1: with her about early on about sort of why we

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Speaker 1: should have been listening why disinformation is really a story

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Speaker 1: about not listening to black women and the consequences for that.

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Speaker 1: And so I think the theme for me really was

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Speaker 1: like black women, queer folks, transpolkes, other marginalized folks, like

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Speaker 1: we are the ones who are who they doing so

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Speaker 1: much of the work of trying to make the Internet

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Speaker 1: that is better for us but for everybody. But that

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Speaker 1: work is costly, It is dangerous, it is exhausting, and

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Speaker 1: it is you know, oftentimes like not rewarded, or if

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Speaker 1: it is rewarded, it's sort of rewarded in this kind

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Speaker 1: of shallow way where it's like, oh, listen to black women,

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Speaker 1: trust black women that we're that's just sort of a platitude. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a great segue to my next question I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask, which is that in season one of Tango

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Speaker 1: to You talked a lot about a racer as a concept,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to ask, you know, how did a

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Speaker 1: racer show up in Disinformed? That's a great question. I mean,

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Speaker 1: erasure is like one of the reasons why I wanted

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Speaker 1: to to talk about disinformation in the first place. You know, I,

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Speaker 1: in my other life have worked in the disinformation space

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Speaker 1: professionally with the organization Ultra Violet, the gender justice organization

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Speaker 1: that I worked for. But on January six, after the insurrection,

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Speaker 1: it was like I woke up one day and everybody

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Speaker 1: was talking about disinformation, and I felt like people like myself,

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Speaker 1: who had really been talking about this since before, it

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Speaker 1: was like a sexy issue. I think the insurrection really

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Speaker 1: made it an issue that like everybody was talking about

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Speaker 1: after the fact, right, and so it was like I

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Speaker 1: truly feel like I went to bed one day and

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Speaker 1: I worked on this issue that was like not very

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Speaker 1: sexy and that people didn't really care about. And I

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Speaker 1: woke up the next day and everybody was talking about it,

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Speaker 1: And overnight a lot of like white men who worked

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Speaker 1: at tech companies were all of a sudden just calling

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Speaker 1: themselves different disinformation experts. And that erasure really stung, you know,

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Speaker 1: as someone who has been working in this space for

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Speaker 1: a long time, it the stung. Uh. It's stung to

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Speaker 1: see panels organized about disinformation that didn't have any people

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Speaker 1: of color or women on them, having that experience not

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Speaker 1: at all match my lived experience of going to meetings

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Speaker 1: with companies like Facebook or TikTok or Twitter, and where

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Speaker 1: we are on the side of people trying to like

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Speaker 1: hold them accountable or make the platform safer and better,

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Speaker 1: and knowing how the people when I look around those

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Speaker 1: meetings are always women, always people of color. Having having

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Speaker 1: the reality not match my lived experience was a real

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Speaker 1: feeling of a racer for me. So that was really

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Speaker 1: something that drove the work in general. Yeah, I can

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Speaker 1: imagine that that would sting and be frustrating, but it's

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Speaker 1: not just an issue of injustice, Like those panels that

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Speaker 1: don't feature black activists, women, people of color are missing

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Speaker 1: the whole point of disinformation, right, Like, it's not just

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Speaker 1: that they are excluding people who should be there, it's

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Speaker 1: that they are not talking about the real issues that

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Speaker 1: are at the heart of disinformation. Well, if you're not

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Speaker 1: talking about race, identity, gender, if those things are not

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Speaker 1: part of your perspective when you talk about disinformation, but

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Speaker 1: also any experience on the Internet, you're not actually telling

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Speaker 1: the full story. A great example is this documentary. You know,

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Speaker 1: I love documentaries. A good example is this documentary I

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Speaker 1: watched recently an HBO called Fake Famous, which I truly enjoyed,

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Speaker 1: Like I really really enjoyed it. Um. It's all about

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Speaker 1: this idea that on the Internet nothing is really as

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Speaker 1: it seems, and that you could essentially buy your way

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Speaker 1: into being an influencer if you had money to buy

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Speaker 1: fake followers and things of that nature. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that they dive into is this idea of what

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Speaker 1: it comes to fake followers or bots, that fake social

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Speaker 1: media accounts had a big impact on the election in

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Speaker 1: they never mentioned the fact that a Senate inquiry confirmed

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Speaker 1: that black folks were the biggest target, Right, So that

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Speaker 1: is that is a not only is it a election

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Speaker 1: integrity issue in a voting rights issue, it's also a

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Speaker 1: racial justice issue. And if you are not equipped to to,

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Speaker 1: you know, dissect these stories in the in ways that

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Speaker 1: demonstrate how race and gender and identity are really at

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Speaker 1: the center of them, and you're not telling the whole story.

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Speaker 1: And I guess I just saw the identity aspect of

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Speaker 1: the way that we talk about the Internet in general.

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Speaker 1: I just saw that being erased time and time again,

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Speaker 1: because frankly, a lot of these places don't have to

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Speaker 1: range right. Like not to say that I'm doing it right,

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Speaker 1: but if you are a team of all white people

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Speaker 1: telling a story about the Internet, and you believe the

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Speaker 1: Internet experience to be for white people, by white people,

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Speaker 1: of course you're not going to be able to really

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Speaker 1: speak to that to identity issues or you know, how

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Speaker 1: things can be race issues or gender issues, if it's

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Speaker 1: something that you're not poised yourself to grapple with. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's a shame because those issues are central. Anything,

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Speaker 1: like you said, anything that doesn't include them and in

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Speaker 1: effect center them is just a superficial treatment of the problem.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break looking back when we started

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Speaker 1: production on Disinformed at the end of last year. It's

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Speaker 1: almost funny to think that we were concerned people might

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Speaker 1: stop caring about disinformation after the election, and of course

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Speaker 1: I didn't happen. Instead, the January six insurrection happened, and

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Speaker 1: Republicans are now passing voter suppression laws based on Trump's

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Speaker 1: big lie and trying to convince us all that the

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Speaker 1: insurrection was just a well behaved groups of civics enthusiasts

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Speaker 1: touring the capital. What do you see as the emerging

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Speaker 1: disinformation threats that maybe aren't on our collective radar yet?

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Speaker 1: What a good question. I don't even know. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I love how you put this um a group of

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Speaker 1: civics enthusiasts. I think there's a lot of people very

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Speaker 1: invested in not being the narrative. I think when it

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Speaker 1: comes to disinformation, one thing I would say is there

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Speaker 1: is a great risk of not seeing some of the

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Speaker 1: laws that are being passed as deeply connected. You mentioned

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Speaker 1: the voter suppression laws that we're seeing in places like Georgia, Florida,

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Speaker 1: other states around the country that are rooted in a

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Speaker 1: complete fabrication, a fabrication that says that our elections are

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Speaker 1: not safe, and that then in the last election, there

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Speaker 1: was like nefarious behavior going on. That's not true. It's

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Speaker 1: it's just point blank not true. But the fact that

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Speaker 1: now we have this kind of disinformation being codified into

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Speaker 1: law that will make it harder for people, namely black

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Speaker 1: folks and brown folks and first time voters to vote.

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Speaker 1: That's also happening in other ways. It's happening with the

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Speaker 1: spate of anti abortion legislation we're seeing all all over

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Speaker 1: the country based purely in fictions about our health and

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Speaker 1: our bodies. It's happening in really really harmful, dangerous laws

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Speaker 1: about legislating trans identity, oftentimes focused on trans youth. A

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Speaker 1: lot of these laws are based on complete fictions and

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Speaker 1: fabrications about trans youth. And I don't see these as disparate.

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Speaker 1: I see these as a coordinated series of attacks on

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Speaker 1: our democracy being fueled by disinformation and lies and you know,

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Speaker 1: falsehoods about marginalized people being spread and having a digital

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Speaker 1: media ecosystem and landscape ready and employs to amplify them

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Speaker 1: and help them fester and become more powerful. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's all egregious. I think some of the worst

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Speaker 1: is the disinformation about like trans kids right, like, why

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Speaker 1: are children somehow a political punching bag for a lot

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Speaker 1: of the same groups that you know are concerned that

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Speaker 1: Amazon is selling children and you know, all these disinformation stories.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty disgusting the way that they will create these

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Speaker 1: fabrications about people and especially children. It's discus and let's

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Speaker 1: I need to be clear, like this is going to

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Speaker 1: kill people. People will die because of this kind of legislation.

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Speaker 1: We know that trans youth are safer when they have

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Speaker 1: access to gender or firmain healthcare. Everybody needs health care.

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Speaker 1: To create laws based on fictions and lies and smears,

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Speaker 1: smears that are fueled by someone's identity to further criminalize them,

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Speaker 1: they're essentially a I believe, trying to legislate trans identity

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Speaker 1: out of existence, so you know, eradicate trans identity starting

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Speaker 1: with youth. And we're talking about youth who are often

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Speaker 1: times so marginalized. So it's not it's it's cruel, but

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Speaker 1: it's also people are going to die, people are going

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Speaker 1: to be deeply, deeply harmed. And the worst part is

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Speaker 1: is that it's all based in complete fictions, complete untruths

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Speaker 1: that are allowed to fester and spread on social media.

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Speaker 1: Oftentimes for profit, right, I think that like we're not

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Speaker 1: fully I don't. I think it can be difficult to

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Speaker 1: fully see that at the scope that it actually is.

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Speaker 1: It's not a piecemeal it's not about a piecemeal anti

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Speaker 1: trans bill and this state or voting might bill in

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Speaker 1: this state. It is a coordinated network of larger attacks

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Speaker 1: on our democracy fueled by disinformation. And I think that

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Speaker 1: you know, Trump didn't start disinformation, but I think that

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Speaker 1: we're living in a time right now where people see

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Speaker 1: how powerful it is to weaponize and and what a

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Speaker 1: powerful weapon it can be. And I think that we're

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Speaker 1: really seeing we're only now seeing the results of that.

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Speaker 1: I think it's I think we really are at a

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Speaker 1: pivotal time where we're gonna have to decide if it

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Speaker 1: gets better or worse. More after a quick break, let's

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Speaker 1: get right back into it. You brought up a great

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Speaker 1: point that there's a lot of money me being made

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Speaker 1: on the spread of this disinformation, which came up a

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Speaker 1: few times in the seat and disinformed as we talked

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Speaker 1: about platforms, But there's a whole bunch of other ways

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Speaker 1: that that we didn't touch on because of the focus

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Speaker 1: on telling individual people's stories, but uh, that's another huge

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Speaker 1: piece here. Yeah, when a Foma is oma was that Pinterest?

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Speaker 1: She said that nine times out of ten, when someone

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Speaker 1: was pushing medical disinformation or misinformation on the platform, it

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Speaker 1: was because they were selling something, whether it was supplements

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Speaker 1: or some bogus curative disinformation. People who push it can

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Speaker 1: often be scammers looking to line in their pockets. I

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Speaker 1: did an episode recently that was a little controversial calling

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Speaker 1: out everybody's favorite. Uh well, miss Guru Gwyne Paltrow, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: she's a scammer. You know, at what point do we

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Speaker 1: call it what it is? If you make money, if

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Speaker 1: you build an empire on telling people lies, lies about

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Speaker 1: their health, lies about their bodies to make money, that's

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Speaker 1: a scammer. We have a word for that. Just because

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Speaker 1: someone is well dressed and they have a like you

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Speaker 1: know ethereal vibe doesn't magnate less of a scam and

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Speaker 1: we and I want to get to a point where

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Speaker 1: the same way. But when we see someone selling fake gucci,

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Speaker 1: you know, on in Times Square in Manhattan, that's a scammer.

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Speaker 1: We need to see people who get rich off of

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Speaker 1: disinformation and platforms and tech leaders who get rich off

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Speaker 1: of it as the same kinds of scammers and worse

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Speaker 1: because those scams kill people, they hurt people, they get

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Speaker 1: people sit, and they criminalize people. Yeah, you mentioned platforms

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Speaker 1: and the role that they have here, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they're absolutely profiting off this disinformation, even if they're not

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Speaker 1: the ones doing the scams themselves, they are enabling it,

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Speaker 1: perpetuating it, and profiting from it. And I know in

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Speaker 1: a lot of the work that you've done with Ultra Violet,

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Speaker 1: you've been bringing this to the platforms. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: especially Facebook and Twitter. Are those the big platforms that

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Speaker 1: we need to be concerned about now? Where there are

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Speaker 1: there others. So if you would have asked me this

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Speaker 1: a few months ago, I would have said my big

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Speaker 1: three were Facebook, Google which owns YouTube, and Twitter. But

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Speaker 1: we need to be thinking about other platforms as well.

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Speaker 1: We recently met with TikTok about disinformation on their platform.

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Speaker 1: Um the episode that we did with blood Bath and

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Speaker 1: Beyond and Abby Richards, who are two amazing TikTok ers

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Speaker 1: who make amazing content really counterings on the disinformation that

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Speaker 1: we see on those platforms, have really spoken to the

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Speaker 1: way that TikTok has really gone under the radar, which

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Speaker 1: is so horrible when you think about the fact that

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Speaker 1: the average users age is fourteen, right, and so these

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Speaker 1: are very young people who are really being targeted with

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Speaker 1: a lot of harmful content. Never mind the sexist, racist,

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Speaker 1: toxic content that's there that's like, yes, and but also

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Speaker 1: harmful disinformation and disinformation about our bodies, about our identities,

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Speaker 1: about sexuality. Imagine being four keen and having to wade

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Speaker 1: through all of this, like it's a lot. And so

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Speaker 1: I think that we really do need to be spending

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Speaker 1: more time focusing on emerging platforms like TikTok. And something

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Speaker 1: that blood Bath and Beyond brought up, which I thought

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Speaker 1: was a really good point, is that we need to

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Speaker 1: be having these conversations on the platforms where they start.

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Speaker 1: And so if you see disinformation popping off on TikTok,

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Speaker 1: you can't counter that on Twitter, you know. And so

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Speaker 1: it's like, I, even though I am way older than

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Speaker 1: the than the target user of TikTok, I am now

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Speaker 1: on TikTok because I want to know what kinds of conversations,

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Speaker 1: what kind of content is happening there, and what can

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Speaker 1: we do to make sure that content is safe for

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Speaker 1: this very young user base. Yeah, I think you're absolutely

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Speaker 1: right that it's been under the radar and it it

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Speaker 1: needs to be a focus. They've got I just looked

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Speaker 1: it up. Over a billion active monthly users. So not

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Speaker 1: only are they is it young people, but it's a

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Speaker 1: lot of them. So I'm thank you for doing that work.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a little silly because I'm definitely

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Speaker 1: I so. I love TikTok. I made my first TikTok

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Speaker 1: two weeks ago. It is about my cats, Monika Um.

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Speaker 1: I'm hoping to make her a TikTok star. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of good cat content on TikTok. It's a great

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Speaker 1: platform and I completely understand why people go there and

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Speaker 1: looking for community. You know, their algorithm is amazing and

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Speaker 1: that like, you know, I'm a identify as a black

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Speaker 1: beer woman. Within the first few scrolls of being on TikTok,

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Speaker 1: their algorithm completely clocked me as a black queer woman

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Speaker 1: and was serving servicing any content that we would put

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Speaker 1: aligned with that identity. And so if they're algorithm is

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Speaker 1: that good at knowing my identity understanding the kind of

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Speaker 1: content I want to see? That should to show you

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Speaker 1: how powerful it is, and so I want to make

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Speaker 1: sure what these algorithms are being agents of good, agents

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Speaker 1: of bringing people closer to communities that are healthy, not

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Speaker 1: bringing them closer to communities that will endanger them or

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Speaker 1: get them, you know, involved in toxic or extremist content. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so what can people do to curb disinformation in our

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Speaker 1: everyday lives? Well, the number one thing that you can

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Speaker 1: do is not to amplify it, not to share it,

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Speaker 1: even if you're trying to debunk it. Oftentimes, when you

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Speaker 1: retweet something that that is disinformation on disinformation, you're actually

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Speaker 1: just helping it spread and helping it become more powerful

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Speaker 1: by debugging it. Focus instead on sort of thinking of

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Speaker 1: yourself as like an influencer of your own little pocket

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Speaker 1: of the internet. So even if you don't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of followers or you're not somebody who is like

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Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian online, you still have influence over your little

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Speaker 1: pocket of the web. So focus on becoming that trustworthy

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Speaker 1: person that people know they can go to. They know

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Speaker 1: they can go to your feed, your TikTok, your Twitter

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Speaker 1: or whatever. They know that they can count on you

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Speaker 1: for posting accurate, timely information and that means your community

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Speaker 1: is going to be so nourished and so full off

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Speaker 1: of the information that you share that is like good

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Speaker 1: and accurate, they're not going to be as susceptible to

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Speaker 1: fall for it when someone is posting bs. So focus

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Speaker 1: on being like an influencer of your little pocket of

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Speaker 1: the Internet. And then also if you see something that

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Speaker 1: is suspect, google it right, Like I think on like

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Speaker 1: like we see this a lot on TikTok with the

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Speaker 1: trafficking content. I do believe that people are sharing misinformation

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Speaker 1: not because they want to be bad actors who they're

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Speaker 1: not looking to intentionally disinform. They're just you know, sharing

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Speaker 1: something of their community because like they maybe and they

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Speaker 1: think it will be helpful. Maybe you know, they don't know,

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Speaker 1: like maybe it's true. I think it's like, don't fall

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Speaker 1: into the trap of sharing something just because maybe it's true.

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Speaker 1: Do a little research Google to try to find try

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Speaker 1: to find a reliable source backing up what you say,

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Speaker 1: and if you can't, don't share it. I would also say,

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Speaker 1: you know, this came up from the episode we did

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Speaker 1: with Nora from Pain America. Recognize that we all have

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Speaker 1: a role to play in this. It's it's it's a

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Speaker 1: little it like climate change. Right. I am one person.

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Speaker 1: I am not a wealthy corporation. It is up to

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Speaker 1: wealthy corporate wealthy in corporations wanted to change like fixed

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Speaker 1: climate changes. They could, and they should. They're the ones

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Speaker 1: with power, they should be the ones acting as leaders

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Speaker 1: to do this. But in absence of that, I can

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Speaker 1: still make individual choices that help, right, I can still

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Speaker 1: you know, reduce my usage of single use plastics or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Disinformation and misinformation is the same way. It is up

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Speaker 1: to tech leadership and policymakers to step in and and

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Speaker 1: and right this wrong, right, and and and make a

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Speaker 1: big difference. In absence of their leadership, we can all

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Speaker 1: make smarter choices of how we see it Internet. We

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Speaker 1: could all be good stewards of the Internet. We can

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Speaker 1: all think twice before we retweet something, or you know,

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Speaker 1: pause and take a breath before we share something. I

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Speaker 1: think that that, like, that realization was really helpful for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. So that really aligns with what you've

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Speaker 1: been doing over the past six months, year longer than

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Speaker 1: that of both those things of helping educate people and

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Speaker 1: raise awareness about disinformation and what we can all do,

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Speaker 1: as well as your work with platforms and policy policymakers

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Speaker 1: through Ultra Violet. Um, and you know you've you've had

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Speaker 1: some help along the way and spreading that message. A

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Speaker 1: lot of your friends and colleagues invited you onto their

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Speaker 1: shows to talk about disinformation. What was that experience like

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Speaker 1: for you? Oh? My god? So fun. The voice that

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Speaker 1: you hear on the podcast is largely my own, and

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Speaker 1: podcasting the reason why it's fun, the reason why I

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Speaker 1: got into it because it's collaborative and so being able

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Speaker 1: to collaborate with my community of podcast nerds has been amazing.

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Speaker 1: I have got the chance to go on so many

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Speaker 1: amazing podcasts. Um, I can shout some out right now,

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Speaker 1: Uh stuff, Mom'm ever told you. I'm on every month

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Speaker 1: talking about underrepresented voictions on the Internet. Shout out to

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Speaker 1: Sam and Annie they are amazing. Um. I was on

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite podcasts, Robert Evans is behind the Bastard.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to Robert and Sophie. They are amazing. They

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Speaker 1: do work chronicling sort of bastards throughout history. You know,

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Speaker 1: so people like I don't know, Mark Zuckerberg, people who

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Speaker 1: have you know, further bad things in the world. Um,

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Speaker 1: I am a frequent guest on one of my favorite podcasts,

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Speaker 1: Daily Zite Guys Shout out to the Zeit Gang. Amazing, amazing,

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Speaker 1: definitely check it out. And then podcasts where they're doing

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Speaker 1: interesting work thinking about the Internet in interesting ways, like

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Speaker 1: Joe Piazzas podcast is phenomenal Under the Influence. She is

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Speaker 1: chronicling the influencer community peicularly like Mom influencers and like

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Speaker 1: Mom Instagram users, because people don't really cover or chronicle

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Speaker 1: Instagram or influencers because I think there's so many women

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Speaker 1: in that field, and so it's just not seen as

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Speaker 1: worthy of actual consideration or actual um journalistic scrutiny. However,

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Speaker 1: it's also a billion dollar industry and so if no

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Speaker 1: one is covering this with the seriousness that it deserves

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Speaker 1: the serious that other billion dollar industries get, you know,

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Speaker 1: things go under their radar, people are exploited, things get

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Speaker 1: you know, people need to know about what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And so I was lucky enough to be on her podcast.

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Speaker 1: I cannot recommend it enough. She is amazing. Another good

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Speaker 1: one is the Daily Dapts podcast Two Girls, One Pad

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Speaker 1: of really doing some interesting work again just talking about

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Speaker 1: the Internet. In different ways. The experience of being on

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Speaker 1: the Internet is so multifaceted, there's so many interesting angles

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Speaker 1: to it. We rarely cover it with the depth that

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Speaker 1: it deserves because it can be so difficult to spotlight

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Speaker 1: marginalized experiences there. And it's like there's like a default

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Speaker 1: assumption that the average user on the Internet is a

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Speaker 1: white male, and that leaves out so many pockets, so

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Speaker 1: many facets to what people's actual experiences online are actually like.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm so happy that I am in a

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Speaker 1: community of people really working hard to tell these stories

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Speaker 1: with the you know, love and nuance and thoughtfulness that

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Speaker 1: they really do deserve. Another great one um tech stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm not just saying that because Jonathan Strickland is the

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Speaker 1: executive producer of this show. He also tells phenomenally interesting

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Speaker 1: stories about the Internet and the experience of being on

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Speaker 1: the Internet, from gadgets to trends to sort of more

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Speaker 1: cless opical questions. I think there's so many interesting people

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Speaker 1: having those interesting conversations about what it means to be

429
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: a person on the Internet today. Yeah, and Jonathan has

430
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: been so supportive throughout making this podcast, both in terms

431
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: of the content and also like the behind the scenes,

432
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: nuts and bolt stuff of making a podcast successful. Absolutely yeah. Um.

433
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: Speaking of being successful, earlier this month, we found out

434
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: that Tang Goody Want a Shorty Award, beating out other

435
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: podcasts in our category produced by powerhouses like HBO and

436
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: the NFL. How did you do it? What is your secret?

437
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: My secret is an amazing producer and engineer, Tarry Harrison.

438
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: Surely in this podcast would be would be non existent

439
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: without her visions, Like if you've ever listen to something

440
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: on the show about like, well that sounds cool, we're like, oh,

441
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: that was a beautiful, beautifully soundscape part of the show

442
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: that was sorry, And so really, she's a secret sauce

443
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: of why it works. It's it's her, and it's the

444
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: stories of all the interesting people who are doing such

445
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: cool work online. So I feel like I have very

446
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 1: little to do with it. Between the two of Between

447
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: that those two things, it's almost impossible to not make

448
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: an award winning podcast because they're so great. Yeah, Tart

449
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: is amazing, your guests are amazing. I think you also

450
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: had a little bit to do with it. Okay, I'll

451
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: allow that I had a little something to do with it.

452
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: So what can listeners look forward to in the next

453
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: season of Tank GODI and when can they look forward

454
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: to hearing it? So we will be back in your

455
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: earbuds very soon, and we're gonna keep having these conversations

456
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: about what it looks like online for people who wanted

457
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 1: to represent it. Some of the episodes that we did

458
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: this season that We're near and Near to my Heart

459
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: were stories of women who were finding themselves at the

460
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: said tour of not so pleasant experiences online and so

461
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: things like online harassment campaigns, pylon campaigns. I'm really interested

462
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: in how these women deal with it and will come

463
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: out the other side of it. So that's something to

464
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: look forward to in a fun little mini series. Really

465
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: kind of the opposite about women who are just doing

466
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: cool stuff online, like interesting women that you might not

467
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: know about, who are making the Internet a better place.

468
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: So a little bit of like light and dark, and

469
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: I think it really is representative of the fact that

470
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: being a woman or a person of color, or a

471
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: queer person or a transperson online you deal with so

472
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: much crap. There is ugliness there, but there is life

473
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: there too, Like it is what brings me back to

474
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: the Internet, is what brought me to the Internet in

475
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 1: the first place, and I'm really interested in telling the

476
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: full scope of that story. It's like Claire said in

477
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: the very first episode, you know, don't fight the darkness,

478
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 1: bring the light. So what are you gonna be doing

479
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: while the show is on hiatus, You're just gonna be

480
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: kicking to the beach. I wish a little bit of

481
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: beach time. I definitely want to take some time for

482
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:07,479
Speaker 1: like actual meaningful rest. You know, I've been doing this

483
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: show since January here it is almost June. It is

484
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: been It's been fun. I'm great, but I'm looking forward

485
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: to taking some time off. I'm going to continue holding

486
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: platforms accountable. I met with Twitter just today to advocate

487
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: for some policy changes. The meeting with TikTok. We continue

488
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: to meet with Facebook, so that work will not stop.

489
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: That is not work that you hear about on the

490
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: podcast very often, because frankly, it's not really that interesting

491
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: to listen to sometimes. But that will continue, and you know,

492
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: I'm excited to sort of get back out there. You know,

493
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: I have this little saying I am now vaxed, wax

494
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: and relax. Actually it's not my saying. I saw it

495
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: on TikTok, but It is the motto for this this

496
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: part of my life right now, and I'm looking forward

497
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: to traveling some safely. I'm looking forward to continuing to

498
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: these conversations, and honestly, I want to keep talking about

499
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: how we make the Internet a safer, better place and

500
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: amplifying the voices of some of the women and folks

501
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: of color who are doing that. And so if folks

502
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: are interested in live events, I am interested in them too.

503
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: If folks want to bring me out to speak for

504
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: their organization or for an event they're having, I am

505
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,239
Speaker 1: very interested. As I said, I am vaxed, waxed and

506
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: relaxed and down to get out there. That is just

507
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: sound like the wax part is like part of that.

508
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: If not, okay, good to clarify. A thousand people are

509
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: hitting the backspace right now. Uh well, Bridget, that sounds great.

510
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for talking with me, Thanks for letting me come

511
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: along on this ride of this season. Um, congratulations again

512
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: on the Shorty Award and anything else to say. You know,

513
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: I wish your listeners a good summer. Thanks for coming

514
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: along this ride with us. I can't wait to see

515
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: you every go next. I've loved getting your emails, your tweets,

516
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: your messages. I cannot tell you how much it means

517
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: to me. I've had so many times where I'm thinking

518
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: no one's listening to my podcast. I should just give up,

519
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: and then I'll get that perfectly timed review or email

520
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: or shout out, and it means so much, and please

521
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 1: keep it going and yeah, I'll see you on the internet.

522
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed this podcast, please help us grow by subscribing.

523
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or

524
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: just want to say hi. We'd love to hear from

525
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: you at Hello at tango e dot com. Disinformed is

526
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: brought to you by There Are No Girls on the Internet.

527
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unbust creative Jonathan

528
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: Strickland as our executive producer. Tary Harrison is our supervising producer,

529
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: and engineer. Michaelamato is our contributing producer. I'm your host

530
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: Bridget Toad. For more great podcasts, check out the iHeart

531
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

532
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: The Protect the Y