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Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. Today is Saturday,

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Speaker 1: so we have a vault episode for you. This is

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Speaker 1: going to be food Storage Mad Science, Part one. It

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Speaker 1: originally published seven twenty two, twenty twenty five. This is

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Speaker 1: one that Joe did with the hosts of the Savor

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Speaker 1: podcast while I was away on vacation. But it is

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Speaker 1: a fun chat. They're going to get into a big

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Speaker 1: discussion about fascinating and bizarre transformations that food can undergo

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Speaker 1: while stored in the right or wrong conditions. So I

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Speaker 1: think we can all discover some new things about our

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Speaker 1: food storage techniques. Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Hello One, Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My

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Speaker 3: name is Joe McCormick. My regular co host, Robert Lamb

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Speaker 3: is out today, so instead I am being joined by

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Speaker 3: a couple of guest hosts, my friends and colleagues, Annie

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Speaker 3: Reese and Lauren Vogel Bomb. Hey, Annie and Lauren, Welcome

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Speaker 3: to Stuff to Blow your Mind. It's not your first time,

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Speaker 3: but it's great to have you back. How a y'all doing.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having us. It is great to be back,

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Speaker 4: and what a topic you have bought for us today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was just thinking the other day about the last

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Speaker 2: time we were on talking about ambergris and how weird

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Speaker 2: that one was.

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Speaker 3: So yeah yeah, yeah, delicious squidbeaks, because the weird thing

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Speaker 3: was that we figured out that you can eat ambergris

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Speaker 3: and many people have.

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Speaker 1: Why not?

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Speaker 4: Why was one weird things?

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Speaker 2: Floating whale refuse and turn it into something delicious makes

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Speaker 2: perfect sense.

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Speaker 3: So would y'all like to talk about Savor and your

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Speaker 3: other projects?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Where else can people find your work on the internet?

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, is a podcast about food history and science

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Speaker 2: and culture and you can find it on the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And I

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Speaker 2: also do a short form science and history show called

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Speaker 2: brain Stuff. Annie does another stuff podcast called Stuff Mom

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Speaker 2: Never Told You, which is a feminist, intersectional kind of

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Speaker 2: kind of gig.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Nice, Yeah, book topics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. We're also about to be on a panel at

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Speaker 2: PRX in Atlanta. That is the Podcast Creator Summit. It's

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Speaker 2: happening July thirtieth through August first, And yeah, we're on

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Speaker 2: a panel on the thirtieth called Feeding the Culture. Talig

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Speaker 2: Atlanta's Food Stories with a couple of really excellent co panelists,

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Speaker 2: and the event is free. There's a free reception afterwards

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Speaker 2: at Monday Night Brewing. Come have some.

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Speaker 3: Snacks and listen to us. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm terrified and excited com hang out.

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Speaker 4: That's generally how we operate.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, are you in the same boat as us that? Like,

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Speaker 3: I'm somebody who talks for a living, but I'm kind

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Speaker 3: of scared of doing live events because I'm not good

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Speaker 3: at talking extemporaneously without preparation, and also, like I stumble

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Speaker 3: over my words a lot, and that's why we rely

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Speaker 3: on our wonderful producer JJ to edit out the parts

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Speaker 3: where I say a sentence in a completely mangled way

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Speaker 3: and have to start over.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you JY, Thank you JJ.

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Speaker 3: Well, as with the last time you were on the show,

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Speaker 3: because y'all do such great work with food science and

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Speaker 3: food history on SAVER, I thought it would be a

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Speaker 3: good idea to talk about something food related on Stuff

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Speaker 3: to Blow Your Mind. And actually, if everything works out,

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Speaker 3: y'all are going to join me for two episodes of

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Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind? Can I get you on

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Speaker 3: the on the record committing to that?

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Speaker 4: Now, oh wow, you sure kind of boxing those in

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Speaker 4: a corner.

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Speaker 3: But so yeah, Tuesday and Thursday of this week, we're

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Speaker 3: going to do a part one and a part two, uh,

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Speaker 3: discussing the strange and spooky things that can happen to

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Speaker 3: leftovers and other foods during storage. I'm thinking of calling

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Speaker 3: this series food storage mad science. And this idea was

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Speaker 3: inspired by a specific disturbing food memory I have that

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Speaker 3: still haunts me. Unfortunately I can't remember some of the

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Speaker 3: key details about it. But can I tell you a

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Speaker 3: campfire story about food and see if y'all have ever

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Speaker 3: had similar experiences? Please?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, get out the flashlight. Let's make it spooky.

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Speaker 3: Okay woo. So, once upon a time, I remember this

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Speaker 3: happened when Rachel and I were on a little vacation.

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Speaker 3: We were staying at a cabin in the mountains, so

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Speaker 3: good setting. Actually this is where the slashers happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and cabin in the woods.

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Speaker 3: Love it. But the other thing, the other horror here

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Speaker 3: I don't know if y'all can relate, is I'm the cook,

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Speaker 3: the main cook in our house, but I was not

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Speaker 3: cooking with my normal home equipment, and that always CAUs

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Speaker 3: is frustrations for me. I like to be able to

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Speaker 3: use my own pans and utensils and stuff. But so

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Speaker 3: you know, I was using somebody else's equipment and I

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Speaker 3: made a batch of my baked pasta. I usually do

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Speaker 3: a baked penna. I think this time it was fusily

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Speaker 3: because I remember the little corkscrew shapes when when the

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Speaker 3: final horror was revealed by the way before I go on,

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Speaker 3: do y'all do have like a go to baked pasta

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Speaker 3: dishneath it? Are y'all baked pasta people or not?

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Speaker 4: I'm not generally a baked pasta person. I am a

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Speaker 4: pasta persona, but I do have a nostalgia for a

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Speaker 4: post Thanksgiving baked pasta. My mom used to make turkey tetrazini, yes,

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Speaker 4: which she would just use shredded turkey, angel hair pasta

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Speaker 4: and crema mushroom soup. I know there's ways you can

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Speaker 4: kind of like gussie it up fous. We have done

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Speaker 4: an episode on it over on Savor and it's one

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Speaker 4: of those things that people disagree about how to make it,

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Speaker 4: which is pretty much everything. But yeah, that kind of

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Speaker 4: simple savory dish. I have really fond memories of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm too lazy to make a baked pasta like

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Speaker 2: pasta all day, but I'm not going to put it

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Speaker 2: in the oven. Like that's an extra step that's way

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Speaker 2: too much more.

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Speaker 3: No going to a second location with no na. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I generally do a I do regular pasta more than

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Speaker 3: baked pasta. But when it's a baked pasta, I do

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Speaker 3: like a pinne and a tomato sauce with sausage, roasted

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Speaker 3: mushrooms and spinach, and then I bake that in a

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Speaker 3: casserole with pecorino romano and low moisture mozre mozzarella melted

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Speaker 3: on top. It's a jam. It's pretty good. It's sort

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Speaker 3: of inspired by I worked as a as a server

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Speaker 3: in an Italian restaurant when I was in college, and

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Speaker 3: they had a dish kind of like this, but like

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Speaker 3: without spinach in it. So I've modified it over the years,

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Speaker 3: but that's what I was doing, except this time, I'm

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Speaker 3: pretty sure it was the fusilli, not the pinne. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: that's not really material, but I just wanted to talk

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Speaker 3: baked pasta shop for a second. Yeah. So, yeah, So

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Speaker 3: I made this batch of baked pasta and the story

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Speaker 3: starts very normally. I baked it, we ate it the

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Speaker 3: first night, and after it cooled off, I covered it

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Speaker 3: up with aluminum foil, and I put the leftovers in

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Speaker 3: the fridge. And then a day or two later, I

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Speaker 3: don't remember exactly when it was, I pulled the leftovers

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Speaker 3: out so we could eat some more, and to my

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Speaker 3: horror and disgust, I found the aluminum foil pitted with

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Speaker 3: tiny holes in places where the little pasta corkscrews had

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Speaker 3: been in contact with the foil. Now the holes were

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Speaker 3: alarming enough, because it almost looked like it had that

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Speaker 3: appearance I associate with food that has been nibbled by

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Speaker 3: like cockroaches or maybe mice, like a little kind of

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Speaker 3: nibbled on eaten by a pest. Look. But then it

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Speaker 3: got even worse, because when I peeled the foil away

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Speaker 3: on the pasta itself, there were these little dots and

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Speaker 3: puddles of residus do where. What it looked like was

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Speaker 3: that the aluminum foil had melted and left these blue

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Speaker 3: gray green polka dots all over our food. No, definitely

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Speaker 3: not appetizing.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 3: At the time, I had no idea what had happened,

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Speaker 3: even though it looked like a form of melting that

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Speaker 3: was obviously not possible. The melting point of aluminum foil

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Speaker 3: is it's very high. It's something like six hundred and

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Speaker 3: sixty degrees celsius or more than twelve hundred degrees fahrenheit.

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Speaker 3: That definitely is not what happened, Certainly.

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Speaker 2: Not in a fridge. I would be that you would

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Speaker 2: have greater problems.

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Speaker 4: You've got a Ghostbuster esque issue happening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I'm sorry goser got into this penny.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, even in the oven, if the castrole had been

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Speaker 3: that hot, it would would have been obvious for a

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Speaker 3: number of reasons. I think it'd probably be on fire. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I haven't done the ignition point of possitia, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: but there would be no more moisture left in it obviously,

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Speaker 3: so there's no way the foil was melting. It kinw

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Speaker 3: looked like it had been nibbled on in a way,

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Speaker 3: but that didn't make any sense because it was stored

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Speaker 3: inside the refrigerator. So I think at the time I

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Speaker 3: just assumed this was some sort of weird chemical reaction,

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Speaker 3: but we were in a hurry. I didn't have time

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Speaker 3: to look into it. Or figure out if it was

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Speaker 3: safe to eat. So I just discarded it moved on,

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Speaker 3: and so I was curious what was happening here. And

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Speaker 3: that's the first thing I want to talk about in

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Speaker 3: our series of weird food storage reactions, because I looked

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Speaker 3: into this and I discovered that my experience here was

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Speaker 3: not unique. You can find posts on the Internet of

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Speaker 3: people reacting with curiosity and horror to the fact that

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Speaker 3: aluminum foil has apparently dissolved and turned into an aquamarine

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Speaker 3: gun metal stain on their food and the food. Interestingly enough,

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Speaker 3: in the vast majority of these cases, especially where you

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Speaker 3: can find pictures on the internet, is lasagna quite similar

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Speaker 3: to my my baked penny. Okay, so I've got some

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Speaker 3: illustrations that I just found on Google Images for y'all

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Speaker 3: to look at. Here in the outline, what do y'all

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Speaker 3: think you want to dig into that?

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Speaker 2: No, No, that's gnarly. I don't want no unless you

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Speaker 2: have used a blue cheese. I don't want my lasagna

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Speaker 2: to be that color. And I'm not. Actually, I would

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Speaker 2: totally eat a blue cheese lasagna. I was about to no, No,

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Speaker 2: that sounds great, but so no, the answer is no.

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Speaker 4: Thank you. Well, I'm notoriously I will eat around things.

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Speaker 4: It's not great, but I would do it.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, stray cat mentality. Yeah, just like, oh the

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Speaker 2: food is there, not going to waste the food.

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Speaker 4: I don't recommend it. It's not a great way to go.

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Speaker 3: And you know the mold like it's got the little

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Speaker 3: tindrills that go inside right invisible.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I can get very creative.

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Speaker 3: Food daredevil over here. Okay, but so first question, have

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Speaker 3: y'all ever had this experience? Does this happened to you?

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Speaker 2: I've never seen this before.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I don't think I've ever I've had aluminum foil

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Speaker 4: get stuck to a dish, like little bits of it

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Speaker 4: and just kind of ate around it, but I don't

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Speaker 4: think I've ever had this happen before.

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Speaker 2: This kind of melting situation, right yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well then I'll just have to use my experience

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Speaker 3: as the reference point here. But rest assured it's not

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Speaker 3: just me. This does happen to people all the time.

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Speaker 3: Often it freaks them out and they don't understand what

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Speaker 3: it is, much like me in this scenario, And the

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Speaker 3: question is what is causing this? What's actually happening. In

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Speaker 3: most cases, there seems to be a pretty clear answer,

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Speaker 3: and that answer is something called galvanic corrosion. In the

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Speaker 3: context of food, this has a cute name. It's often

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Speaker 3: called the lasagna cell. So, in crude terms, this is

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Speaker 3: when the wrong combination of storage choices or cooking vessel

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Speaker 3: choices turns a tray of lazy into a battery.

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Speaker 4: I feel like lasagna cell. You called it cute, but

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Speaker 4: I'd be nervous. This is a lasagna that's out to

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Speaker 4: get me.

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Speaker 3: Oh sleeper like a storm or like a like a

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Speaker 3: cell of like spies. And yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: We are concerned by the way that Annie is herself

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Speaker 2: a sleeper cell. Oh there's a few words that she

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Speaker 2: pronounces in British English.

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Speaker 3: Really what happens when you look at the red queen?

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Speaker 4: Oh lord, I've never tried.

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Speaker 3: Getting out my solitaire deck.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So we're going to be talking about galvanic corrosion,

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Speaker 3: and I apologize in advance. Uh, you know, electrochemistry is

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Speaker 3: not my strong suit. But I really did my homework here,

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Speaker 3: so I worked hard to make sure I'm getting all

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Speaker 3: this right. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Any anytime people start talking about electrons, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: so you mean a wizard. A wizard is doing something cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but right now I think, yeah, I think we've got this.

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Speaker 3: I had the same experience. I was like, okay, I

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Speaker 3: really want to understand what happened to my food. I

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Speaker 3: start looking into it. I find a good answer, but

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Speaker 3: then I'm like, oh no, I'm gonna have to remember

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Speaker 3: again what all this stuff is and how batteries work.

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Speaker 3: But it's okay. I think I got a lock on

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Speaker 3: it now. So galvanic corrosion is also known as by

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Speaker 3: metallic corrosion by metallic as in two metals, and it

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Speaker 3: happens when you've got two different metals arranged in what's

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Speaker 3: called a galvanic cell, also known as a voltaic cell.

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Speaker 3: These two things are basically the same thing, but they're

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Speaker 3: named after Luigi Galvani and Alessandro Volta, respectively. These were

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Speaker 3: two different Italian guys who both separately discovered principles in

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Speaker 3: the late eighteenth century that led to the development of

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Speaker 3: the electric battery. So a galvanic cell is a structure

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Speaker 3: where you've got these two different metals, for example, copper

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Speaker 3: and zinc, and they're electrically connected to each other, so

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Speaker 3: imagine connected by a wire, and then they are also

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Speaker 3: both in contact with an electrolyte solution. So an electrolyte

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Speaker 3: is a substance that can conduct electricity when dissolved in

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Speaker 3: a fluid. For example, table salt sodium chloride is an electrolyte.

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Speaker 3: When you dissolve table salt in a glass of water,

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Speaker 3: the sodium chloride separates into positively charged sodium ions and

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Speaker 3: negatively charged chloride ions, and then these ions can carry

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Speaker 3: an electrical charge through the water. If the salt water

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Speaker 3: is placed between two different electrical potentials, for example two

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Speaker 3: differently charged pieces of metal, so saltwater can function as

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Speaker 3: an electrolyte solution. The galvanic cell is the basic idea

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Speaker 3: that makes a battery work. The simple version of this

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Speaker 3: explanation is that inside a battery you're going to have

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Speaker 3: two substances. One is called a cathode, one's called an anode,

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Speaker 3: and these will be electrically connected to each other, so

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Speaker 3: like wired together, and then also both in contact with

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Speaker 3: a shared electrolyte solution. Often in a battery it's going

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Speaker 3: to be a gel. In modern batteries, the cathode and

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Speaker 3: the anode undergo a chemical reaction called a redox reaction,

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Speaker 3: and that's short for reduction oxidation. The anode goes through

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Speaker 3: what's called oxidation, that's where electrons flow away from the

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Speaker 3: anode material and the cathode undergoes reduction. This is where

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Speaker 3: electrons flow through the outside circuit into the cathode, and

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Speaker 3: then you also have ions, which are a little charged

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Speaker 3: atoms or molecules, flowing through the electrolyte solution to complete

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Speaker 3: the circuit. This of course creates electrical flow electrical current,

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Speaker 3: which is useful in powering whatever you've got included in

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Speaker 3: the circuit. This is how batteries provide electricity to things,

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Speaker 3: usually by putting a number of these cells in series

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Speaker 3: to create more voltage. And so here's where we get

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Speaker 3: to the corrosion part. As this redox reaction goes on

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Speaker 3: over time, the material of the anode actually physically degrades

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Speaker 3: and loses mass because electrons are flowing away from the anode. Leftover,

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Speaker 3: positively charged ions dissolve out of the mass of the

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Speaker 3: anode and into the electrolyte solution. And when this happens

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Speaker 3: in a lot of cases, you can see by looking

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Speaker 3: at it that the anode is losing its chemical and

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Speaker 3: physical integrity. It just sort of bleeds out into the middle.

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Speaker 3: This is not a perfect analogy, but you could look

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Speaker 3: at this physical degradation of the substance of the anode

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Speaker 3: as the fuel that is spent to power the circuit,

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Speaker 3: kind of like how wood is burned in order to

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Speaker 3: power the oxidation reaction that is a fire. This degradation

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Speaker 3: of the anode, when it happens unintentionally between between two

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Speaker 3: metals in contact with an electrolyte, that is what we

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Speaker 3: call galvanic corrosion. There are a lot of common examples

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Speaker 3: of galvanic corrosion in the world that don't have anything

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Speaker 3: to do with food. Galvanic corrosion happens to like screws

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Speaker 3: and other fasteners holding metal in place, So you could

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Speaker 3: think of like steel screws on an aluminum base. Especially.

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Speaker 3: It seems like a lot of the examples happen in

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Speaker 3: the vicinity of the sea, on seaside buildings, on ships

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Speaker 3: and boats. I know salt does not evaporate with water

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Speaker 3: when water evaporates, but it can be carried through the

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Speaker 3: air in these little droplets as sea spray. So stuff

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Speaker 3: that's next to the ocean, or even especially sitting in

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Speaker 3: the ocean, but next to it, also it gets the

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Speaker 3: sea spray salty moisture getting all over it and getting

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Speaker 3: in between bimetallic components, and this will end up dissolving

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Speaker 3: the less noble of the two metals over time. There

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Speaker 3: are other examples too. I think I'm one't able to

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Speaker 3: find really good specific examples of this, but I think

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Speaker 3: galvanic corrosion can sometimes happen to jewelry if there are

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Speaker 3: two different metals and enough sweat or if you like

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Speaker 3: wear the jewelry while bathing or swimming, you can end

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Speaker 3: up with a kind of electrolyte water in between them,

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Speaker 3: you know, salty water or sweat, and then maybe if

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Speaker 3: it has I don't know, gold and nickel or you know,

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Speaker 3: two different kinds of metals on it, something can start

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Speaker 3: corroding the less noble of the two metals in the jewelry.

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Speaker 3: And then there are also like really interesting historical anecdotes

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Speaker 3: where there were like consequential cases of galvanic corrosion. Any

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Speaker 3: didn't you dig up one of these?

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Speaker 4: I did, and I was very very shocked by it

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Speaker 4: because I have specifically looking for food examples.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I.

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Speaker 4: Uncovered something I did not know, so yes, on food wise,

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Speaker 4: there is a really interesting history and a long history

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Speaker 4: of scientists and engineers trying to combat galvanic corrosion when

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Speaker 4: it comes to naval ships and even the Statue of Liberty.

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Speaker 4: I learned so much about how to restore the Statue

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Speaker 4: of Liberty, but I'm going to condense it, Okay. Beginning

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Speaker 4: in the seventeen hundreds, ships in the British Royal Navy

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Speaker 4: started displaying signs of corrosion in the iron nails holding

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Speaker 4: the ships together. Alarmed officials launched an investigation, and they

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Speaker 4: did all these experiments, and they realized that it had

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Speaker 4: something to do with the interaction of the copper sheets

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Speaker 4: inserted in the ships below the waterline of the vessel

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Speaker 4: and the iron nails, causing the sheets of copper to

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Speaker 4: detach from the wooden holes. Investigation revealed that while some

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Speaker 4: of the nails remained intact, others had almost completely dissolved

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Speaker 4: into this kind of paste. Yeah, the intact nails still

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Speaker 4: had a layer of insulation between the iron and which

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Speaker 4: apparently accidentally was left behind during construction. Like they sure

359
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,199
Speaker 4: should have taken the insulation off, but they didn't. But

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Speaker 4: this discovery kick started even further experiments with different materials

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Speaker 4: and coatings and how they reacted when exposed to salt water.

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Speaker 4: The British Royal Navy arrived at using a copper zinc alloy,

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Speaker 4: but then okay. Jumping ahead. In the nineteen eighties, maintenance

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Speaker 4: workers realized that the Statue of Liberty had been affected

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Speaker 4: by galvanic corrosion. The outer copper layers were separating from

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Speaker 4: the internal cast iron structure. When the Statue of Liberty

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Speaker 4: was originally constructed in eighteen eighty six, there was this

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Speaker 4: thin layer of shelleck between iron and copper and it

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Speaker 4: acted as an insulation. Over the years of exposure to

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Speaker 4: the salt watery atmosphere of Liberty Island and rainfall leaking

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Speaker 4: down from the torch, the shellac broke down, eliminating this

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Speaker 4: layer of insulation and I apologies I always struggled to

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Speaker 4: pronounced slac. The two metals reacted and the iron started

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Speaker 4: to rust. To stop this process, the cast iron was

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Speaker 4: replaced with stainless steel, which is resistant to corrosion, and

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Speaker 4: the sillac was replaced with PTFE or tough one. It

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Speaker 4: was a pretty extensive restoration. Oh that's what I'll say.

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Speaker 3: I apologize if you don't know the answer here, But

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Speaker 3: what was the predicted failure state? Like if they hadn't intervened,

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Speaker 3: what would have happened? Does the statue of liberty like

381
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Speaker 3: collapse or does like one part of it come off

382
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Speaker 3: with the other that.

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Speaker 2: Does, like her skin to sort of peel off.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So from what I read, it was not a

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Speaker 4: structural issue, like it was not going to be a danger,

386
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Speaker 4: but it just didn't look great. Some people were worried

387
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Speaker 4: about the arm, specifically holding up the torch, but and

388
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Speaker 4: they did try a lot of interesting experiments to fix

389
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Speaker 4: that and make the torch a little fancier, like it

390
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Speaker 4: might actually glow at night. But from what I understand,

391
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 4: it was more of a it doesn't look very good issue.

392
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Speaker 3: Okay, But in the case of like the ships and stuff,

393
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,919
Speaker 3: this actually was a serious structural issue based on galvanic corrosion, right.

394
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Speaker 4: It was, and that they put those copper sheets in

395
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Speaker 4: there specifically to combat things that was damaging the wood,

396
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 4: like these wood boring worms I think, and just wear

397
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 4: and tear. So it was sort of a new issue.

398
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 4: They weren't. They weren't sure why it was happening at first.

399
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 4: Those copper sheets made those ships go so much better,

400
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 4: like faster, all of that. But uh, ones, Yeah, if

401
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 4: your hule is falling apart, that's not great. Yeah, I

402
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 4: also are coming out.

403
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want my nails to be pacede in

404
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: my ship. That's not a good place for that.

405
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 3: So in a lot of these unintended cases of galvanic corrosion,

406
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 3: we're dealing with like natural environmental salt water or salt

407
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 3: spray as the main electrolyte, but it can be all

408
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 3: kinds of things. Lots of natural, common wet organic substances

409
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 3: have just the right physical properties to be the electrolyte

410
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: in a galvanic cell. In fact, going back to Luigi Galvani,

411
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 3: one of Galvani's revolutionary experiments in the eighteenth century was

412
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 3: showing that he could make a severed frog's leg twitch

413
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 3: with electrical stimulation, which was only possible because animal body

414
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 3: parts like a frog's leg, which is food you know, Yeah,

415
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 3: that's tasty. A frog's leg has moisture and ions like

416
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 3: salts that can conduct electricity internally. Another example of a

417
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 3: natural wet organic substance that works as a perfectly good

418
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 3: electrolyte for one of these cells is a potato battery.

419
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 3: Y'all made these in school? Yeah, oh yeah, and you

420
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 3: play portal too, of course, exactly. Yeah, so glad ass yeah,

421
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 3: which by the end of this episode, I'm definitely thinking

422
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 3: of like a Portal three with Gladoss as a lasagna,

423
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 3: which I think that's got legs.

424
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 4: It does.

425
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 3: So in a potato battery, you stick a like a

426
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 3: copper penny and a zinc coated screw into opposite sides

427
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 3: of a potato, and then you wire them together. Uh,

428
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 3: and the wet ion rich interior of the potato facilitates

429
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: the flow of electrical current, so you can power something

430
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 3: like a like a little led, you know, wired between

431
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: the two metal pieces, though you might need more than

432
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 3: one potato and series to power an LED, because you know,

433
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 3: potato battery doesn't put out a lot, but you can

434
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 3: get a little bit of flow. In the case of

435
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 3: a potato battery, the anode that is sacrificed that degrades

436
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: in this redox reaction is the zinc on the screw.

437
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 3: It breaks down over time due to galvanic corrosion. To

438
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 3: supply the electrical current to the circuit. So this brings

439
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 3: us back to the lasagna cell. Like a frog's leg

440
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 3: or the inside of a potato. A tray of baked

441
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 3: pasta like a lasagna is usually going to be a wet,

442
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: salty mass, which will facilitate the flow of electrons if

443
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 3: it's positioned as the electrolyte in a galvanic cell, and

444
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 3: it is. It is actually quite easy to turn a

445
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: baked pasta dish into a galvanic cell. All you need

446
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 3: to do is have two different metals surrounding and touching

447
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: the lasagna, for example, a steel pan covered with a

448
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 3: bunch of aluminum foil. And this makes a lot of sense.

449
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: Why is this never happened to me at home? At home?

450
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 3: If I make a baked pasta, I'm always baking in

451
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: like an you know, glass or earthenware dish. I think

452
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 3: this time, I don't remember exactly, but I think I

453
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 3: may have been baking in like a steel or metal

454
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 3: tray of some kind.

455
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: A lot of less expensive cookware is going to be

456
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,719
Speaker 2: made of a reactive material like steel or or aluminum.

457
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: But I think you got steel in this case.

458
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 4: Steel.

459
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: Possibly it could be. I'm not one hundred percent on this,

460
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 3: but I think it could still be possible to have

461
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 3: this with aluminum foil and an aluminum pan if there's

462
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 3: like slight differences in the aluminium there. I'm not sure

463
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 3: about that, but I do think it's possible.

464
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: Generally speaking, aluminium pans are made not with totally pure aluminum,

465
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: so yeah, sure.

466
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 3: Anyway, So just think of the example of a steel

467
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 3: pan with baked pasta in it covered in aluminum foil.

468
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: When you do this, the steel functions as the cathode

469
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 3: and the aluminum is the anode, meaning the aluminum is

470
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 3: the metal that's going to break down in degrade. You

471
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 3: are powering electron flow through this pasta battery and in

472
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 3: the process dissolving your aluminum into the wet lasagna below

473
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 3: create a disgusting mass, a kind of melt movie slime

474
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 3: of aluminium ions piling up on the food and these ions.

475
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 3: I think that there could be all different kinds of

476
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 3: aluminium ion or aluminium salt species. I think you get

477
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 3: a lot of aluminium hydroxide, probably which is from combining

478
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 3: aluminium combining with water. I think this is probably the

479
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 3: bulk of the slime you might also get like aluminium

480
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 3: chloride chloride from combining with salt in an acidic tomato sauce.

481
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 3: So I think it is very likely that this is

482
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: what happened to my baked pasta. I made a nasty

483
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 3: melt movie food battery in my fridge. But I do

484
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 3: want to add an important caveat, especially because in this

485
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 3: series of episodes we're talking about mostly about food storage,

486
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: like the storage of cold leftovers. For this to work,

487
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 3: it didn't need to happen in my fridge or in

488
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 3: cold storage. It just happened there because that is where

489
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 3: I covered the pasta with aluminum foil. In fact, I

490
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: am almost certain this would have happened even faster if

491
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 3: I had covered the steel pan with foil and had

492
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 3: the foil touching the pasta while it was baking in

493
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 3: the oven, because general adage in chemistry, most things happen

494
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 3: faster when it's hot. This is also true of galvanic corrosion.

495
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 3: Though hot or cold, the cell still exists and it

496
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 3: will eventually eat the aluminum. Either way. Sounds so menacing,

497
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: but Annie, you turned up something interesting, which was that

498
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 3: there are examples of this happening, like specifically in hot conditions.

499
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 3: I mean, I think a lot of the lasagna examples

500
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: people talk about are while it's baking in hot conditions.

501
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 3: But it also happens in like barbecue scenarios, right.

502
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 4: Yes, And this is a fun opportunity to use very

503
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 4: intense terminology when it comes to barbecue. But another food

504
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 4: instance where galvanic corrosion of food can occur is in

505
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 4: barbecue when pitmasters use a technique called the Texas crutch.

506
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

507
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 4: This technique entails wrapping the meat in question, usually beef

508
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 4: brisket or pork shoulder, in aluminum foil about halfway through

509
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 4: the cook time to prevent what is called the stall

510
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 4: are when the cooking of the meat is halted by

511
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 4: the evaporation released as it cooks, which cools the meat

512
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 4: and stalls the cook time, which in this case is

513
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 4: not something you want right. The aluminum traps all of

514
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 4: that moisture and ideally the drippings to be reabsorbed later,

515
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 4: while also keeping the temperature. Even if a steel pan

516
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 4: is used, and especially if the marinade contains any tomatoes

517
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 4: or vinegar, this process could lead to holes in the

518
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 4: aluminum foil and a loss of those precious, precious barbecue juices.

519
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm familiar with using a crutch like method myself.

520
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 3: One tip that I've picked up I don't remember where

521
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 3: I first encountered this is wrapping it in butcher paper

522
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 3: instead of foil, and so that helps trap some of

523
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 3: the heat and moisture. But yeah, it just seems to

524
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 3: come out nicer than when you wrap it in foil.

525
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 3: I don't know, the exterior seems a little nicer for

526
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 3: some reason. I'm not sure exactly why that is. I've

527
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 3: never noticed galvanic corrosion happening to aluminum foil in a

528
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 3: barbecue scenario, but I absolutely understand that it could, and

529
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: they were mentioning this in funny shout out. I found

530
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: it amusing that, like, the most comprehensive article I have

531
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: found about galvanic corrosion in food preparation is not like

532
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: in a food science journal or something. But it's on

533
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: this barbecue head website called Amazing Ribs dot com, which,

534
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 3: to be fair, the site looks pretty solid.

535
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: I use them as a reference all the time on flair.

536
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 2: They do great work.

537
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thumbs up from what I can tell. Yeah,

538
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 3: But yeah, so they say that like if there's the

539
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 3: wrong kind of contact or what you're talking about, like

540
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 3: a steel pan, the wrong kind of juices or you know,

541
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 3: a salty or acidic marinade, or maybe I think there

542
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: could also be issues with just like aluminum foil touching

543
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: the grill grates. If there's you know, the wrong configuration,

544
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 3: you can sometimes get like pitting or corrosion of the

545
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 3: aluminum foil around the meat.

546
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 4: Yes, and if you want more details, they've got them.

547
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 4: They are very serious about barbecue.

548
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 2: A lot of people are oh, yeah, yes, yes, we

549
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: we just did an episode about Memphis style barbecue. It's

550
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: our first like foray into talking about regional barbecue without

551
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: having gone to the place and interviewed humans involved with it.

552
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: And we were anxious some cautions involved.

553
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yes, people take barbecue tradition seriously.

554
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 4: They do.

555
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: We just wanted to be respectful and as correct as possible. Yeah,

556
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: we did our best, our best.

557
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: I'm sure we all did great.

558
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 5: I hope so well.

559
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 4: Something else I wanted to bring up here. I've never

560
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 4: heard of this, but there is something called oral galvanism.

561
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 4: I am not a dentist, but briefly, this refers to

562
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 4: a situation where the human mouth produces electric currents due

563
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 4: to a variety of chemical factors and interactions between the

564
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 4: dental materials used for things like crowns, fillings, or braces

565
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 4: and how they interact with saliva and certain types of food,

566
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 4: and this can lead to the accelerated breakdown of these

567
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 4: dental materials, and dentists are still looking into this.

568
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: By the way, this is interesting. I looked into it. Yeah,

569
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 3: so you can essentially do the Lasagna cell type thing,

570
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 3: but in your mouth, with your wet mouth, the saliva,

571
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 3: the flesh, the tongue and all that instead of the

572
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 3: baked pasta or the potato and potato battery. Yeah, you

573
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 3: can create a flow of al extric current in the mouth.

574
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 3: And I came across a really good and I thought,

575
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: kind of funny anecdote from history about oral galvanism. This

576
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 3: doesn't have to do with corrosion. This is just about

577
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: the flow of electricity in the mouth, And the core

578
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 3: takeaway is that it is not hard at all to

579
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: create a simple battery cell inside your mouth with saliva

580
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: as the electrolyte. There was this eighteenth century Swiss mathematics

581
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: professor and philosopher named Johann Georg Sulzer, who in his

582
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 3: philosophy work he was really interested in the concepts of

583
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,959
Speaker 3: pleasure and esthetics, like the questions what makes something beautiful?

584
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: And why is beauty pleasurable? But Sulzer was also famous

585
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 3: for exploring novel dimensions of taste and pleasure with his

586
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: own body as the test subject. We might call him

587
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: like a heat of not And the main example I've

588
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 3: got here is that he was one of the first

589
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 3: people to describe what electrical current tastes like electro gustation,

590
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 3: though he didn't realize that's what it was. He didn't understand.

591
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 3: This was before Galvani and Volta. He didn't understand what

592
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 3: electrical current was. But he did describe this experience in

593
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 3: a paper published in seventeen fifty two in his right. Now,

594
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 3: I've got a picture of him for you to look

595
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 3: at here. Just look at that little smirk on his face,

596
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 3: like he's experiencing pleasure and pain indivisible.

597
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: I believe, yeah, yeah, no, that is a dude who

598
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: is currently tasting current. I love it.

599
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 3: But in this writing, Solzer describes this experiment where he

600
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 3: takes two metals. One is a piece of silver, the

601
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 3: other metal. I've seen it widely reported that the other

602
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 3: metal was lad, but then other sources said, no, it's

603
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 3: not lead. There's silver and another metal. Unclear what the

604
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 3: second one is. And while these two metal plates were

605
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 3: touching one another at one end, he took the other

606
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 3: ends and pressed them on opposite sides of his tongue,

607
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 3: and in between them, he tasted something weird, a flavor

608
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: he described as similar to that of iron vitriol, which

609
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 3: is what they used to call iron two sulfate. Why

610
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 3: did he already know what iron vitriol tasted like? I'm

611
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 3: not sure. I think this guy was probably tasting a

612
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah, cool, Yeah, nothing wrong with that. Well,

613
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: I mean there might be some dangers involved.

614
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 4: But another food dared devil ice exactly.

615
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: Yes.

616
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 3: But he noticed that he did not get any of

617
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: that metallic flavor when he touched either of the two

618
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 3: metals to his tongue independently, only when they were both

619
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 3: on the tongue at the same time and touching each

620
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 3: other at the other end. So the flavor that he

621
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: tasted was the flavor of his tongue functioning as the

622
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 3: electrolyte in the galvanic circuit.

623
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 4: I believe that this is at a modern restaurant somewhere

624
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 4: they're doing something like.

625
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 3: This, Yeah, what are You'll probably know a lot better

626
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 3: than I do, Like, what are the weirdest, most cutting

627
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 3: edge restaurants out of there? What are they doing that's

628
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 3: like barely considered food these days?

629
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 4: I don't know, like a lot of foams.

630
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I'm not actually up on it right now,

631
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: but I do recommend the movie The Menu to anyone

632
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: who likes horror films and has not seen it yet.

633
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: It's pretty great.

634
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 3: I actually haven't seen that. I've had it on my

635
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 3: list for a while.

636
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're into watching cooking shows and like in

637
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: like cooking documentaries, specifically Chef's Table, they got they got

638
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: like the director of photography for Chef's Table to come

639
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: help them on this shoot. And it shows. It's what

640
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 2: it is, wonderful satire. I saw it in a movie

641
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 2: theater with the whole row of restaurant industry kids, and

642
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 2: like we were cackling.

643
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 3: So like beautiful food photography or food cinematography, but also gross.

644
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say gross.

645
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 3: Oh okay, well I just thought my brain went there

646
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 3: because of horror but yeah.

647
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 4: It's mostly it's a satire about where they're making fun

648
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 4: of the cutting edge.

649
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 2: This is what I have to do, okay to keep

650
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 2: astronomy kind of yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, like yes, this

651
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 2: is the breadless bread course. Today. We're today, we're serving

652
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 2: you the idea of bread.

653
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 4: Here's a taco with your greatest secret printed on it. Yeah,

654
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 4: things like that.

655
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, but we got to come back to the

656
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 3: pasta eating the aluminum foil, my tray of pasta with

657
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 3: this like lotus pod triptophobia trigger pattern of holes in

658
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 3: the aluminum. Poking around on the internet, there is another

659
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 3: possibility to explain what happened beyond galvanic corrosion. Some sources

660
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 3: out there talking about the corrosion of aluminum foil by

661
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 3: food also point to the possibility that acidic foods can

662
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 3: dissolve aluminium by a different mechanism than galvanic corrosion, And

663
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 3: from what I can tell, this is also true. Acidic

664
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 3: foods like tomatoes can indeed dissolve bits of aluminum from

665
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 3: cooking and storage vessels and from aluminum foil, And in fact,

666
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 3: this is not a new observation or concern. Fears about

667
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: tomatoes and other acidic foods, specifically tomatoes dissolving metal containers.

668
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 3: Both founded and unfounded. Fears go back for centuries, right

669
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 3: they do?

670
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 4: They do? And so when you've suggested this topic, Joe,

671
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 4: it was really interesting to me because through the research

672
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 4: that Lauren and I have done on savor, I knew

673
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 4: that historically there is a precedent for this, or at

674
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 4: least something similar. When tomatoes arrived in Europe from the

675
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 4: Americas in the fifteen hundreds, many believed them to be

676
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 4: poisonous at first, especially wealthy Europeans. There were a lot

677
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 4: of reasons why the leaves and stems are lightly poisonous.

678
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 4: I learned this research just to have my research.

679
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: I read recently that you can eat tomato leaves and

680
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: this blew my mind and I'm not sure I need

681
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 2: to look further into it. That this has been like

682
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: on my list to look into for a couple months now.

683
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: Is it one of those things that's a question of dose.

684
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 4: Yes, Basically what I read was like, yeah, it's poisonous,

685
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 4: but so is alcohol, Like yeah, like small dosage. Don't

686
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 4: take my word for that. Now. That was a very

687
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 4: brief research, but I have long believed that they were.

688
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 3: Yes, but anyway.

689
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 4: Yes. Another thing that most relates to what we're talking

690
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 4: about today for why people thought tomatoes might be poisonous

691
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 4: is that in the seventeen hundreds, these well off Europeans

692
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 4: often ate off of these pewter plates that were high

693
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 4: in lead content. The high acid levels from the tomato

694
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 4: sometimes would lead leakage that could result in lead poisoning

695
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 4: and even death. Because of this, rich Europeans would keep

696
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 4: the tomato as a decoration poison close to them, but

697
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 4: not eaten. But yeah, they would not eat them, even

698
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 4: going so far as to call them the poison apple.

699
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 4: This attitude and belief was also exported to European colonies

700
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 4: and colonists with the help of some prominent botanist around

701
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 4: the world for many centuries.

702
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a thing at parties, like these rich

703
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: humans would just have a table decoration of this thing

704
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: that they thought was poisonous. Yeah, they were like, what

705
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: a fun party, guys, look at this poisonous thing.

706
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 4: I paid so much money for this poisonous thing to

707
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 4: not look at it.

708
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I only know the slightest like headline version

709
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 3: of this. But have you all ever talked about Is

710
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 3: it true that rich people in England used to rent

711
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 3: pineapples that they could display at parties.

712
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would carry them around like as a point

713
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 2: of interest, but it was too expensive to buy the pineapples,

714
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: they would rent the pineapple.

715
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 4: Yep.

716
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 3: Perfect, rich people.

717
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 4: Got up to some stuff and still too and still too.

718
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 4: That being said, the poorer classes didn't have this tomato

719
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 4: lead problem because they didn't have the fancy lead filled plates,

720
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 4: so they were able to eat tomatoes without issue, particularly

721
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 4: in Italy if they could get them anyway, because they

722
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 4: weren't widely grown in Europe at the time and they

723
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 4: were often very expensive, and not every European country had

724
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 4: this hang up. To be clear, I'm pretty sure most

725
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 4: of France was like, no, this is cool. But by

726
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 4: the eighteen hundreds, in part thanks to the invention of pizza,

727
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 4: the belief that tomatoes were poisonous largely fell away.

728
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: There was also one event where this dude like publicly

729
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,479
Speaker 2: was like, look, y'all, tomatoes are not poisonous and sat

730
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 2: on the steps of a church I believe, and just

731
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 2: ate was like, I'm going to go eat some tomatoes.

732
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 2: Come watch me, and a bunch of people showed up, hoping,

733
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 2: I guess, to see something grizzly occur. But he he

734
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 2: just ate a bunch of tomatoes and eventually the crowd dispersed.

735
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 4: Wasn't that in the US. That one was in the US?

736
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not sure.

737
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: I'd love to know what they imagined might happen.

738
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 4: Oh they were for him to die, you know, they

739
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 4: were to be fair.

740
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: This was before Netflix, Like, people had to make their

741
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: own fun.

742
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 3: So the food deer devil. If food deer devils are devil.

743
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 4: I mean recently, someone in New York ate like a

744
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 4: ton of cheese puffs and a crowd showed up. So

745
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 4: I think these kind of food events attract a certain

746
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 4: crowd of.

747
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 2: Folks competitive eating. Hey, yeah, here we are.

748
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is also more of a fun tidbit, but

749
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 4: I just wanted to throw it in here because it

750
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 4: is fun. There was a belief at the time that

751
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 4: certain members of the night shade family, like tomatoes, could

752
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 4: be used to summon wear wolves. In the sixteen hundred,

753
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 4: some botanists argued that the tomatoes should be reclassified in

754
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 4: a new grouping of place. It's called lycopersicon, which is

755
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 4: Greek for wolf peach, So if you've ever wondered if

756
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 4: there was an etymological connection between the lycopene and tomatoes

757
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 4: and lycanthropy, there is.

758
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 3: Oh, nice, lycopene is that the is that like the

759
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 3: red compound and the tomato peel.

760
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 4: I believe. So I know it got a big health

761
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 4: boost like two decades ago because people were saying it

762
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 4: was very healthy and could possibly combat cancer. So lycopine

763
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 4: got a real health boost, and I knew it was

764
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 4: in tomatoes. Yeah, well, okay, recently, very recently actually, as

765
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty three, some scientists have cast doubt on

766
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 4: this lead poisoning caused by tomatoes theory, reasoning that the

767
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 4: amount of lead leached from the plates by the tomatoes

768
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 4: acidity would have to be quite substantial to ever make

769
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 4: anyone sick. Instead, they suggest it was more likely that

770
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 4: people assumed it was poisonous due to its scientific classification

771
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 4: and its resemblance to other deadly night shades, because at

772
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 4: the time, tomatoes were small and they often looked like berries,

773
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 4: similar in appearance to the poisonous belladonna.

774
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: Oh.

775
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 4: Interesting, it's a lot of classification, mayhem, to be honest.

776
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 3: With you, I mean, in the nineteenth century European society

777
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 3: was not wanting for causes of lead poisoning.

778
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 4: That's also true. It could have been many things.

779
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 3: In a lot of industrial manufacturing and even just sort

780
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 3: of like craft shop scenarios, people were exposed to lead

781
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 3: through their work or through products that they consumed. So yeah,

782
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 3: there were a lot of ways to get it back

783
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 3: in the day.

784
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 4: The interesting thing is there are a lot of accounts

785
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 4: of people vomiting profusely after consuming tomatoes, but a lot

786
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 4: of it felt more like people saying that was happening

787
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 4: unless than it was actually happening. But you can, if

788
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 4: you like me, love a good horrifying historical quote about

789
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 4: tomatoes and how they could kill you, you can find them.

790
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 4: But it sounded like it was mostly people being like

791
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 4: trying to scare you. I could be wrong. I wasn't there.

792
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 4: But I also this got me thinking because I wonder

793
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 4: if there were instances of the tomatoes acid eating away

794
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 4: at the integrity of plates or other food vessels and

795
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 4: or causing visible corrosion, and maybe that contributing to the

796
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 4: fear of tomatoes, because I remember having vague fears when

797
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 4: I would notice visible corrosion on some of my cookware

798
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 4: or plates and being concerned that I was ingesting something

799
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 4: I shouldn't be ingesting.

800
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, doesn't feel good.

801
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is a real thing. Like, the issue

802
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: is that some materials are reactive to acids and bases

803
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 2: both can erode metal surfaces, especially over time and especially

804
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: when heat is involved, as Joe said earlier, And this

805
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: can cause anything from like a little weird tint to

806
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: your food to maybe a metallic taste to your food.

807
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 2: Two actually bad levels of various metals getting into and

808
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 2: perhaps hanging out in your body. So you know, like

809
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: very basically, if you can afford to avoid aluminum cookware,

810
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 2: do that. Cast iron is reactive, but not really a

811
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 2: worry like like like, iron particles are basically fine in

812
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: your body. If you can afford to ruin copper pants

813
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: with tomato sauce, I don't think you're worried about any

814
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: potential health effects that you might be seeing. But yeah, like,

815
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 2: like generally, if you're going to be cooking anything acidic

816
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,720
Speaker 2: like like wine or tomatoes, or if you're just boiling

817
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 2: lemon juice or sodium bicarbonate, look for non reactive cookwaar

818
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: like stainless steel or enameled pieces, glassware for the oven.

819
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, and my goodness, there are a lot of

820
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 4: tips out there about what types of pants to use

821
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 4: with what ingredients, and there are even whole articles dedicated

822
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 4: to acidic items like tomatoes. People do love to fight

823
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 4: about it, I'll say, even though there's solid science, and

824
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 4: if you're worried about it or curious, there is plenty

825
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 4: of information out there. And if you want to learn

826
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 4: more about the tomatoes frankly wild history, you can check

827
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 4: out Savers Tomato Reducs episode it is. I had to

828
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 4: cut some stuff out of this recap because I was like,

829
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 4: this is not actually related, but it's so interesting.

830
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 3: Okay, So Savor Tomato Reducs in the search bar. I'll

831
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 3: get people done.

832
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

833
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good entry point to Saver folks.

834
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 4: Oh, it's a fun one. Were Wolves is only the

835
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 4: tip of the iceberg.

836
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 3: Okay, So I guess we want to come back to

837
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 3: the question of what happened to the pasta in my

838
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 3: case and in these other cases on the internet, where

839
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 3: you know, lasagna is melting people's aluminum oil, not melting,

840
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 3: but dissolving, making these ugly piles of ions so acidic

841
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 3: Tomato sauce like you would often find in a lasagna

842
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 3: or a baked penna, can sometimes dissolve aluminum, but from

843
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 3: everything I've read, this acid metal reaction is typically much

844
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 3: slower and results in a lot less aluminum being dissolved

845
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 3: than you would have in the case of galvanic corrosion. However,

846
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 3: the fact that acidic tomato sauce is present may actually

847
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 3: help speed up the aluminum eating reaction in a galvanic

848
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 3: lasagna cell. However, even though this is all pretty well

849
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 3: established chemistry that you can figure out just by reading,

850
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 3: I wanted to see it for myself. I wanted to

851
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 3: see if I could create a galvanic corrosion reaction in

852
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 3: food on demand. So yesterday I did an experiment. I

853
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 3: started staging an aluminum sour kraut melt movie experiment. So

854
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 3: I put out two dishes of sauer kraut on my stovetop.

855
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 3: Sauer Kraut is I think a good electrolyte, is both

856
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 3: salty and acidic, and one of these I put in

857
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 3: a steel pan, the other one I put in a

858
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 3: ceramic dish. I covered both of them with aluminum foil,

859
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 3: making sure to press down the aluminum foil to the

860
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 3: sides of the container so to connect them, have them

861
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 3: in contact on the outside, and then also to press

862
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 3: down the foil in the middle so that it was

863
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 3: firmly touching the soauer Kraut. And what happened here, well,

864
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 3: I gave it some time, and by God, the results

865
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 3: are beautiful. Within just a few hours at room temperature,

866
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 3: there was already a noticeable difference. Any and Lauren, I

867
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 3: have some pictures in the outline for you to look at. Here.

868
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 3: This was this first picture. I don't know how much

869
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: you can see in that, but I've got another close

870
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 3: up down below. In so I've got the steel pan

871
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 3: on top here and the ceramic pan below or the

872
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 3: ceramic dish below. The ceramic shows no signs of change

873
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 3: from the outside, but the steel pan already after just

874
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 3: a few hours, has some creepy dark holes and pitting

875
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 3: that you can see in the close up. And then

876
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 3: after this in the outline, I've got some more photos

877
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 3: from this morning when it had had I guess, probably

878
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 3: about eighteen hours to go at room temperature, and here

879
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 3: you really start seeing the horror. The holes are bigger,

880
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 3: they look gnarlier. I mean they're still not like gigantic,

881
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 3: but they look creepy. They look like something that you

882
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 3: shouldn't be eating. And then I've also got a shot

883
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 3: of the sauerkraut below where you can see the dissolved

884
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 3: aluminium ions on the top of the cabbage as these

885
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 3: gray green blue, kind of shiny, dusty looking metallic spots.

886
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, forbidden glitter. It's beautiful.

887
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 3: Aladdinsane in my soaer kraft. Yeah. So there was no

888
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,760
Speaker 3: visible degradation or residue at all on the aluminum covering

889
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 3: the sour krowd in the ceramic dish. So in both

890
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 3: cases we had the same variable of the electrolyte. In

891
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 3: both cases the foil was pressed up against something salty

892
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: and acidic. Sour krowd again is both, but it only

893
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 3: dissolved and eight holes in the aluminum in the presence

894
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 3: of the steel pan. So I think this is further

895
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 3: evidence that what happened to my pasta was galvanic corrosion,

896
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 3: not just acidic corrosion, though the acidic nature of the

897
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 3: tomato sauce may possibly have helped speed it up.

898
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 4: I love that you did an experiment, and this feels

899
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 4: like a cold case. We're trying to get to the

900
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,879
Speaker 4: bottom of Yeah, you have really really turned up some

901
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 4: convincing evidence right here.

902
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 3: Anny, I want you to be honest. This is your

903
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 3: sour kraut. Now do you eat around this or do

904
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 3: you do you throw it out? You eat around it,

905
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: or do you just eat the metal goop?

906
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: Oh?

907
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 4: I eat around it. Okay, I eat around it, but

908
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 4: if it tastes terrible, I'll try to keep going, but

909
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 4: I might reach a point where I'll stop. Lauren knows,

910
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 4: I you actually picked a great topic for me because

911
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 4: I do not waste food. Leftovers and how to store

912
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 4: them is like my lifeblood.

913
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 2: I also have a stray cat mentality about food, but Annie,

914
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 2: Annie takes it to levels.

915
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I also hate to throw out food. I have

916
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 3: like anxiety sometimes when I have like too many leftovers

917
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 3: in the fridge at the same time, Like, okay, I

918
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 3: want to make sure we get to all these before

919
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:38,959
Speaker 3: they go bad.

920
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 4: Oh, Thanksgiving is a stressful time for me, even in

921
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 4: terms of leftovers.

922
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 3: But okay, so I guess here we're obliquely addressing the

923
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 3: actual question of food safety. Food that has had a

924
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 3: bunch of aluminium ions dissolved into it, is it safe

925
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 3: to eat. I want to preface this by saying I

926
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 3: am not a food safety expert, and I I don't

927
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 3: want to be taken as giving food safety advice. So

928
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 3: the last thing in the world is I want somebody

929
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 3: to eat something that they're iffy about because I said

930
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 3: it's okay.

931
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,919
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. So none of us here are medical professionals.

932
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 4: Nope.

933
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 2: Essentially, don't listen to anything that we say.

934
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll tell you what I've read. Okay. So, aluminium

935
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 3: hydroxide is generally considered safe to consume in small quantities,

936
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 3: at least by like the FDA. Aluminium hydroxide is present

937
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 3: in other common foods and drugs. For example, it's present

938
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 3: in your stomach whenever you take antacids like maylocks. There's

939
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 3: the old brand name of this antacid that maylox starts with,

940
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:48,240
Speaker 3: like ma al. I think the MA is for magnesium

941
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 3: and the al is for aluminum because it had magnesium

942
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 3: and aluminum in it, and that was supposed to help

943
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 3: counteract you know, the hydrochloric acid in your stomach and

944
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 3: settle the stomach. So you know there are other cases. Sorry,

945
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 3: what I never knew that.

946
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 5: That's great.

947
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, like yeah, aluminium hydroxide. Again, I'm not an expert,

948
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 3: but it generally seems like authorities say that it's nothing

949
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 3: much to worry about it. I mean, anything could be

950
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 3: poisonous in huge quantities, but in small quantities it's not

951
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 3: a major concern. However, there are other aluminum ions and

952
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 3: aluminum salts that I don't know. It seem like maybe

953
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 3: not a good idea to consume, like aluminum chloride. I

954
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 3: could not find anything saying this is generally considered food

955
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 3: safe in any significant quantities, and it seems to me

956
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 3: like that compound might be present in these ion slime

957
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 3: pools in quantities greater than you would want to consume.

958
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 3: So again hard for me to say. I'm not an expert.

959
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 3: I would personally just still err on the side of

960
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 3: not eating that stuff out of an abundance of caution,

961
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 3: especially since it's gross. Anyway, unless you're in a kind

962
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 3: of life raft survival situation, why would you need to

963
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 3: eat the metallic melt movie pool?

964
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 2: And I will put in here that when if you're

965
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,919
Speaker 2: cooking with an aluminium pan and you get a little

966
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 2: bit of that leeching effect over time, over years of use,

967
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 2: that the danger there isn't the aluminum so much as

968
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 2: other metals impurities that could be in the pan as

969
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: can frequently happen with very inexpensive cookwaar unfortunately, and so

970
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 2: that that's more the long term concern about using that

971
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: kind of cookwaar, not the aluminum itself.

972
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 3: So as far as the food safety authorities go, I

973
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 3: think the corrosion of aluminium into food is not considered

974
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 3: like a huge cause for concern. But once again, like

975
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean, do you do you really

976
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 3: have to eat that? Like I would avoid it.

977
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 2: Annie is like, no, I'm morally obligated.

978
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 4: I'm struggling. I'm struggling to get on board with this,

979
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 4: but you're correct, I think that's go. Well.

980
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to tell other people what to do.

981
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 3: I'm just speaking for myself. However, what I think where

982
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 3: I can give advice, I think is if you want

983
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 3: to avoid having this problem in the first place and

984
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 3: not create a lasagna cell, what are some ways around it.

985
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 3: First of all, you could avoid the combination of different

986
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 3: metals surrounding your food, so you can bake in like glass,

987
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:29,439
Speaker 3: ceramic or stoneware dishes. If you do have to use

988
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 3: a metal baking dish. If you're baking in a steel

989
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 3: pan or whatever, you could not cover it in aluminum foil.

990
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 3: Or if you must use a metal baking pan or

991
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 3: metal storage container and cover it in foil, you just

992
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 3: need to make sure that the foil is not touching

993
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 3: the food. So if you do those things that they

994
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 3: can pretty well avoid turning your food into a simple

995
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:56,240
Speaker 3: battery cell, and you can avoid having the robot melt

996
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 3: on your cheese.

997
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 2: But if you need power, and you don't have any

998
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 2: potatoes about, but you do have a lasagna.

999
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 4: This is a good kid light small light bulba.

1000
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 3: A good They did the math question, how many lasagna

1001
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 3: batteries would you need to power a city?

1002
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 4: Listeners pools right in exactly.

1003
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is where we need. We need your your

1004
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 3: nerd power contact at stuff to blow your mind dot com.

1005
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, well, I actually have to thank you for

1006
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:37,439
Speaker 4: helping me solve a food mystery, Joe, because I had

1007
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 4: not heard of the phenomena of blue garlic or green garlic.

1008
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, but I once in my food daredevil self

1009
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 4: ate something that was lined with blue, and all of

1010
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 4: my it shouldn't have been lined with blue, and all

1011
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 4: of my friends constantly make fun of me about it,

1012
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 4: and now I think I know why it happened, and

1013
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 4: I feel incredibly vindicated.

1014
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 3: Oh boy, this is great. So yeah, this was the

1015
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 3: other I sort of like gave this to you as

1016
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 3: something to look into because I've had the experience before

1017
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 3: of food storage, of storing foods in the fridge. I

1018
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 3: think specifically, I'm thinking of when I made like a

1019
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 3: vacuum packed chicken breast that I put like lemon and

1020
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 3: some herbs and some garlic in there with it, and

1021
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 3: after some time I noticed the garlic was bright blue,

1022
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 3: and that's odd, but it connected in my mind to

1023
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 3: what I'd seen before some home pickling experiments that had

1024
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 3: some blue or green garlic, and I was wondering, what

1025
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 3: is causing this reaction? What's going on here? Obviously people

1026
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 3: might see that in wonder is that kind of thing

1027
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 3: safe to eat? I think personally I just ate it

1028
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 3: and it was fine. But so yeah, fill me in

1029
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 3: any what's the deal?

1030
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm going to give a very brief rundown of this.

1031
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 4: It's fascinating, And Lauren please jump in when we get

1032
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 4: to the fermentation part, because Lauren is our fermentation expert

1033
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 4: over all.

1034
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love some bacteria and yeast poop. That's It's

1035
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 2: what makes the world go round.

1036
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, okay. So another discoloration that might give some

1037
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 4: people pause is when garlic fermented garlic turns blue or green.

1038
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 4: This is caused by a chemical reaction between a sulfur

1039
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 4: containing amino acid alline and the enzyme alinase, and further

1040
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 4: compounded by either acidic ingredients lacto fermentation are even exposure

1041
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 4: to heat. Before slicing or cutting, these chemicals remain separated,

1042
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 4: but once they're sliced, they combine to form allisin. This

1043
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 4: reaction forms pyrolls, in turn, which are these rings of

1044
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 4: carbon nitrogen. When these pyrols chain together, they form polypyrols.

1045
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 4: Polypyrol molecules that imbue the garlic with a green are

1046
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 4: blue hue, and it's very distinct, by the way, if

1047
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 4: you've never seen it. If the three of these molecules connect,

1048
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 4: you get blue, while four will give you more of

1049
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 4: a green color. The flavor pretty much remains the same

1050
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 4: from what I read, though perhaps more assertive. I can't

1051
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 4: really remember and when I ate what I suspect was this,

1052
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 4: I don't remember thinking it was strong of garlic, But

1053
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 4: that's what I read. There really are a lot of

1054
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 4: factors that go into this whole thing, the age and

1055
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 4: size of the garlic, the cooking temperature, the acidity. The

1056
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 4: older garlic is, the more time it has to build

1057
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 4: up the chemicals needed for this reaction, and the acid

1058
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 4: helps break down the cellular walls of the garlic and

1059
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 4: speed up the whole process. Some speculate that using copper utensils,

1060
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 4: copper rich foods, or even copper and plain old tapwater

1061
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 4: can contribute to this phenomenon, as well as other metals

1062
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 4: or minerals like iron or aluminum. Just cooking garlic alongside

1063
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 4: things like onion, which also contain sulfur, or something acidic

1064
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 4: like lemon juice can turn your garlic blue. This is

1065
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 4: so interesting to me, but yes, what about blue or

1066
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 4: green pickled garlic. Well, during the process of lacto fermentation,

1067
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 4: bacteria produce lactic acid. When exposed to that lactic acid,

1068
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 4: over time, the acid interacts with the chemicals in garlic

1069
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 4: forms those polypyrols, and the garlic turns green or blue.

1070
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 4: It's not a mold. It is a normal chemical reaction

1071
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,439
Speaker 4: that happens sometimes whether or not the brine is highly

1072
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 4: acidic yep, perfectly safe to eat. In some cultures and preparations,

1073
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 4: this blue or green garlic is the desired results. For example,

1074
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 4: in northern China, blue are green pickled garlic, called lava garlic,

1075
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,919
Speaker 4: is a popular accompaniment to things like dumplings, especially during

1076
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 4: the cold season, and for the Lava Festival, which takes

1077
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 4: place on the eighth day of the twelfth Lunar month.

1078
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 4: To make this whole, peeled garlic cloves are aged in

1079
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 4: a sealed container with vinegar, typically rice vinegar. From what

1080
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 4: I've read, this results in a more like sweet and sour,

1081
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 4: pungent garlic flavor.

1082
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 3: And so the goal is intentionally to create blue or

1083
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 3: green garlic. That's like what you're going.

1084
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 4: For, yes, And actually, when you and Robert came on

1085
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 4: our Lunar New Year episode as a crossover, we talked

1086
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 4: about how a lot of those foods are puns and

1087
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 4: the history behind them. And this has a long history

1088
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 4: and a pun behind it that I won't get into.

1089
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 4: But it's kind of like counting up your money in

1090
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 4: the green sort of being your money.

1091
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 3: Oh okay situation.

1092
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 4: If you are really opposed to your garlic taking on

1093
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 4: a blue or green hue, though there are a couple

1094
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 4: of things you can do, like using younger garlic, keeping

1095
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 4: your garlic cold until ready to cook, cooking onions and

1096
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 4: garlic separately, and waiting for the garlic to cook down

1097
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 4: a bit before adding acid. Some suggest blanching the garlic

1098
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 4: and using stainless steel products too. There's a lot of

1099
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 4: tips out there. I've never realized this was apparently a

1100
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 4: big problem, but yes, it's safety eat So all this

1101
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 4: being said, garlic can mold with the tailtale like fuzzy

1102
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 4: blue and black spots, at which time they should be

1103
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 4: thrown out. Also, just to note, this is different from

1104
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 4: purple garlic, which is an entirely separate variety. So lots

1105
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 4: of lots of garlics out there, lots of colors garlic

1106
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 4: can take on.

1107
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 3: I love it, right, I think I've had purple garlic.

1108
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 3: That's just like an inherent color in the bulb, right.

1109
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 4: It just that way reaction. Yeah, it's more assertive, is

1110
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:36,959
Speaker 4: what I read researching this.

1111
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 3: So, but no reason to be scared of the garlic

1112
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 3: that turns blue or green during storage you're cooking, unless

1113
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 3: it's moldy.

1114
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 4: Unless it's moldy, but you will there's a clear difference

1115
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 4: between moldy garlic and what we're talking about with this

1116
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 4: blue and green garlic. It is a very bright hue.

1117
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 4: It takes on.

1118
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, in the case of the reaction, not the mold. Yes, yes, well, folks,

1119
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 3: I don't want to run you off, but we are

1120
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 3: coming up against our time limit here. It's been so

1121
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 3: much fun talking to y'all today. Do you want to

1122
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 3: do another episode with me? Can we do another one?

1123
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1124
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 3: More weird food science, food storage, mad science, reactions, transformations, explosions.

1125
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 4: Chris, Yes, yeah, I think we're in Yeah.

1126
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 3: I can't wait. Well, Annie, Lauren, thank you so much

1127
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 3: for joining me today. It has been a blast. And

1128
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 3: please remind people again where they can find your work.

1129
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 3: I know we talked about it at the top, but

1130
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 3: let's hit them with it again. Repetition doesn't hurt.

1131
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can find our podcast saver anywhere you get

1132
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 2: your podcasts.

1133
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 4: We are also.

1134
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 2: About to be on a panel here in Atlanta at

1135
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 2: the PRX Podcast Creator Summit. They asked us to come

1136
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: talk about food podcasting, so we were like, sure, that's

1137
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 2: on July thirtieth. That's a Wednesday from seven to It

1138
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 2: is free, open to the public, located at the Plywood,

1139
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 2: So come on out if you're interested. They've got a

1140
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 2: bunch of other really fascinating sounding like if you are

1141
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 2: into audio creation. The whole thirty to the first is

1142
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 2: a bunch of workshops with a bunch of really cool humans,

1143
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 2: just trying to make podcasting more accessible to everyone.

1144
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, and also, Lauren, people can find your work

1145
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,959
Speaker 3: on brain Stuff the podcast, and any people can find

1146
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 3: your work on stuff Mom never told you correct?

1147
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1148
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 3: Anything else?

1149
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 4: Before we close out, go listen to our Tomato episode. Okay,

1150
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 4: do it?

1151
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 3: That's your homework. That's your homework, listeners, Yeah, savor tomato, reducs. Yes, okay,

1152
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 3: let's see. Hey, if you're new to the show today,

1153
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 3: I normally co host this with a guy named Robert Lamb.

1154
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 3: He'll be back with me, I believe next week or

1155
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 3: maybe later this week, but generally, Stuff to Blow Your

1156
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 3: Mind is a science and culture podcast with core episodes

1157
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 3: that publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays of every week. On Fridays,

1158
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 3: Rob and I usually do a different kind of episode

1159
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 3: called Weird House Cinema, where we just talk about weird movies.

1160
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 3: They can be good, they can be bad, they can

1161
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 3: be old, they can be new, they can be well

1162
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 3: known or obscure. The only real criterion is they got

1163
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 3: to be weird. Let's see. We also do short form

1164
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 3: episodes on Wednesdays, and then on Saturdays and Mondays we

1165
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 3: run some episodes from the vault, older episodes of Stuff

1166
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 3: to Blow Your Mind and Weird House Cinema. If you

1167
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 3: want to find us on social media, I think we're

1168
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 3: on some of those things. I don't know, I'm not

1169
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 3: attached to that world, but you can definitely find us

1170
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 3: on like Instagram, and Weird House Cinema has a profile

1171
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 3: on letterboxed dot com. That's a social kind of film

1172
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 3: website that has reviews and film lists and stuff like that.

1173
01:06:55,400 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 3: I think we're just called Weird House on letterbox. Huge thanks,

1174
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 3: of course to Annie Reese and Lauren Vogelbaum for joining

1175
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 3: me today, and huge thanks as always to our excellent

1176
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 3: audio producer, JJ Pouzway. If you would like to get

1177
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 3: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or

1178
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 3: together to suggest a topic for the future, to tell

1179
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 3: us how many Lasagna batteries it's going to take to

1180
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 3: power a city, or anything else. You can email us

1181
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 3: at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

1182
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1183
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1184
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.