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Speaker 1: This is Annie and you're listening to Stuff Mom Never

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Speaker 1: told You. And as we record this, as this is released,

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Speaker 1: it is the holidays. Black Friday, Small Business Saturday, Cyber Monday,

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Speaker 1: Giving Tuesday have all come and gone, and this is

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Speaker 1: the time of year for giving and donating, whether that

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Speaker 1: is your time or your money. But for many, especially women,

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Speaker 1: nonprofit isn't just a once a year thing. It's a

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Speaker 1: full time job. It's a job with conditions that lead

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Speaker 1: a lot of workers to burn out, which is something

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Speaker 1: else on our minds lately this holiday season. Please keep

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Speaker 1: in mind the people behind the charities you support and

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Speaker 1: how we can push for better for them, and please

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Speaker 1: enjoy this classic to learn more about the world of

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Speaker 1: nonprofit organizations. Welcome to Stuff Mob Never Told You from

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Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about

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Speaker 1: nonprofit work and philanthropy, partly because as we're recording this

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Speaker 1: tis the season the holidays are upon us, Holiday giving.

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Speaker 1: Not to mention that Caroline and I both have personal

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Speaker 1: experience in the nonprofit space, and we're not making a

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Speaker 1: joke about podcasting. Yeah know, I actually had two back

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Speaker 1: to back nonprofit jobs before I came here, and both

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Speaker 1: were super women dominated. Um, we didn't have a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of dudes. And at both uh, the upper echelons

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Speaker 1: were also stocked with bunches of women, which, as we

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Speaker 1: will get into, not to spoil the whole show, but

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Speaker 1: um that that can be pretty rare for for bigger

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Speaker 1: nonprofits that are in charge of lots and lots of

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Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars. So my nonprofit job was

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Speaker 1: my very first job out of college because in a

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Speaker 1: quintessentially millennial way, I decided that if I was going

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Speaker 1: to work forty hours a week, then it should be

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Speaker 1: for the betterment of humanity. And everyone out there who

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Speaker 1: works in a nonprofit just laughed at you saying forty

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Speaker 1: hours a week, but continue right, uh. And I was

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Speaker 1: fortunately working with a terrific team of people, and um

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Speaker 1: my boss really took me under his wing and was

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Speaker 1: such a kind mentor, and oh man, I could tell

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Speaker 1: you so many stories about him. He's just fabulo. Listen

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Speaker 1: if he's listening, Hello, Magnus. But I was quickly introduced

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Speaker 1: to all of the stereotypical things that come along with

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Speaker 1: a nonprofit world, like you said, working forty plus hours

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Speaker 1: a week, particularly around annual giving time, around our annual

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Speaker 1: gala um, and also making very little money at it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, granted I was freshly out of college, but

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Speaker 1: compared to starting salaries at for profit jobs, it was

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Speaker 1: it was tough to live on in Atlanta. Well, and

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Speaker 1: we put out a call on Facebook not too long

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Speaker 1: ago for ideas of topics to cover, and we heard

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Speaker 1: from listeners who really wanted us to cover this topic,

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Speaker 1: specifically what you're talking about when it comes to money

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Speaker 1: and the expectation that because you are young, uh and

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Speaker 1: you are passionate about a call us, that you will

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Speaker 1: be okay with making less money, working crazy hours because

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Speaker 1: if your love for the fill in the blank whatever

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Speaker 1: it is that your your nonprofit is supporting. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of our our listeners who sent in request were

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Speaker 1: saying like, yeah, we love what we do, but I

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Speaker 1: mean we have to live as well. It's a recipe

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Speaker 1: for burnout a lot of times. Totally. I am curious

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Speaker 1: to know whether you and your back to back nonprofit jobs,

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Speaker 1: whether you were intending to join a nonprofit, whether you

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Speaker 1: were specifically seeking one out, or if it's just sort

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Speaker 1: of what fell in your lap. Because there are some

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Speaker 1: terrific nonprofits around here. Yeah, I actually, um, the first

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Speaker 1: nonprofit I wound up at was a total accident. Um.

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Speaker 1: But when I had worked at the newspaper, frequently I

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Speaker 1: would tell one of my managers that, like, I've got

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Speaker 1: to get out of here. I mean, for so many reasons,

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Speaker 1: but I've got to get out of here. I want

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Speaker 1: work that has meaning to it. Because again, it's not

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Speaker 1: like I was a reporter saving the world, right. I

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Speaker 1: was a copy editor. I was behind the scenes, and

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Speaker 1: that's where it was comfortable. But I really wasn't helping

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Speaker 1: anyone other than to correct grammar, which is really important,

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Speaker 1: you guys. But it's so important. It's not the same

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Speaker 1: thing as working directly with people, helping people, raising money whatever,

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Speaker 1: whatever the case. Maybe um. And so I knew that,

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Speaker 1: just like you, quintessential millennial who like wants to be involved,

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Speaker 1: wants to help us stars in our eyes. Um, I

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Speaker 1: knew I wanted to get involved with some type of nonprofit.

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Speaker 1: But I also was in the thick of the recession

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Speaker 1: when I was at the newspaper. And as we'll touch

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Speaker 1: on a little bit later, That's how a lot of

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Speaker 1: people in our generation have wound up in nonprofits, especially

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Speaker 1: right out of college, because there were, obviously during the recession,

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Speaker 1: so many layoffs, so many companies shrank, and what you

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Speaker 1: would see around that time about you know, not quite

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Speaker 1: ten years ago, was a lot of young people taking

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Speaker 1: the jobs they could get, and a lot of those

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Speaker 1: ended up being at nonprofits. So you had back to

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Speaker 1: back ones. Though, did you ever feel in your time,

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Speaker 1: especially because we don't have to name them, um, but

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Speaker 1: they were very different experiences and very different types of

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Speaker 1: places with either of them, did you feel like you

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Speaker 1: were making Did you feel like there was take home

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Speaker 1: value on top of your paycheck of the good feeling

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Speaker 1: supporting the cause that your nonprofit was all about? Not really? No? Um, Well,

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Speaker 1: the first nonprofit was not the kind where you are

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Speaker 1: necessarily helping anyone, like a social enterprise. It was, yes,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was not going out and directly helping people. Um.

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Speaker 1: The second nonprofit I worked at was a massive, massive,

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Speaker 1: massive company, and it did not feel like a nonprofit,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. In this political season, you hear people

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Speaker 1: referred to as rhinos Republicans in name only, and I

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Speaker 1: often felt that I worked at an in Pino nonprofit

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Speaker 1: name only because all of the higher ups did drive

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Speaker 1: the bmwts and the Mercedes is is is and UM

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Speaker 1: had all of the designer clothes and bags. And I

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Speaker 1: would never begrudge anyone that kind of stuff if if

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Speaker 1: they can afford it, and that's what they choose to do.

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Speaker 1: But the only time I truly felt that I connected

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Speaker 1: with the people that we were working for was when

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Speaker 1: I actually did interviews and wrote articles about the families

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Speaker 1: and the children UM. And then that was rewarding because

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Speaker 1: you'd end up speaking with someone on the phone for

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Speaker 1: two hours and crying with them because their child survived cancer.

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Speaker 1: You know, so a little bit of a different situation.

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Speaker 1: And I think that the larger, as we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about, the larger of a nonprofit budget, that you

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Speaker 1: get the wider of a gap that you see between

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Speaker 1: the entry level coordinators, say UM, who are freshly out

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Speaker 1: of college like I was, and your CEO who is

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Speaker 1: winding and dining with wealthy people, partly because that's the

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Speaker 1: way that you drum up money UM, but there are also,

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Speaker 1: you know, questionable issues around that, especially when you look

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Speaker 1: at the gender breakdown of the nonprofit sector, and it

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Speaker 1: is so heavily female dominated up until you get to

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Speaker 1: the upper management where you do start making more money.

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Speaker 1: And um, I, even even as someone who had not

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Speaker 1: much but some experience in the nonprofit world, to kind

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Speaker 1: of take all of our research in and contextualize that

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Speaker 1: gender dynamic within all these issues of burnout and low

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Speaker 1: pay and working however many hours a week that you

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Speaker 1: have to um and essentially being taken for granted sometimes

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Speaker 1: and it being considered women's work because of some charity

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Speaker 1: is really disturbing, honestly. And before we get into the

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Speaker 1: darker issues of the nonprofit world, why don't we start

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Speaker 1: out with a little bit of history. Yeah, and without

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Speaker 1: going all the way back to the seventeenth century, because

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Speaker 1: trust me, I could invite me to a party, I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you all about it. Um. But let's start in

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, which is a very good place to start,

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Speaker 1: because that's when you see the progressive air, right. You

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Speaker 1: start to see more and more people concerned with social issues,

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Speaker 1: health and education issues, and you've got an explosion in

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Speaker 1: these things called voluntary associations. And that's everything from the

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Speaker 1: Freemasons to uh types of organizations that we've talked about

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Speaker 1: on the podcast before called women's clubs. Basically, uh, these

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Speaker 1: were everything from social organizations to get together to help people, um,

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Speaker 1: get into politics, to having marginalized groups get together to

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Speaker 1: help one another. And if you think about all of

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Speaker 1: these forces that are happening in the United States around

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Speaker 1: this time, with as you say, you have an influx

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Speaker 1: of immigration, industrialization, urbanization, the expansion of education UM, and

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Speaker 1: also just moral reform UM. You might have groups like

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Speaker 1: the Daughters of Temperance who were focused on drunkenness, public

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Speaker 1: drunkenness UM. And then of course around the Prohibition era

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Speaker 1: you would have a lot of women involved in that UM.

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Speaker 1: With suffrage you have the rise of groups like the

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Speaker 1: League of Women Voters. And then when it comes to education,

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Speaker 1: you see women getting together and forming clubs that ran

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Speaker 1: daycares and across the board. If you look at the

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Speaker 1: focus of women's nonprofit and charitable work, it tends to

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Speaker 1: focus on education, child care, and women's issues, which makes sense.

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Speaker 1: I mean, because they are we're focusing on usually the underserved. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I mean the percolation of all of these nonprofit

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Speaker 1: organizations and voluntary associations that that started happening in the

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Speaker 1: progressive era really would end up informing UM nonprofit and

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Speaker 1: activist work that we would see in the nineteen sixties, fifties, sixties,

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Speaker 1: and even today because you would see the establishment of

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Speaker 1: civil rights nonprofits like the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in

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Speaker 1: double a CP, Congress of Racially Quality Student Non Violent

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Speaker 1: Coordinating Committee UM and their activism and advocating directly contributed

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Speaker 1: to the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four. You

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Speaker 1: also see groups like Now and Narrow launch disability rights

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Speaker 1: groups like the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill and

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Speaker 1: United Cerebral Palsy. All of these groups, a lot of

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Speaker 1: which still exist, and they're following in the footsteps of

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Speaker 1: these people who were coming together starting in the mid

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Speaker 1: to late nineteenth century UM. And you know, Kristen mentioned

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Speaker 1: the issue of immigration also in the context of the time.

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Speaker 1: You have to think about the fact that we had

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Speaker 1: in this country a lot of Roman Catholic, German and

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Speaker 1: Irish immigrants who brought their traditions of voluntary action and

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Speaker 1: charitable groups to this country, and they uh in their neighborhoods,

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Speaker 1: would launch what one source referred to as a benevolent

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Speaker 1: empire of schools, orphanages, temperance societies, and social welfare groups

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Speaker 1: to help their communities and help look out for each other.

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Speaker 1: Although of course, like that's not just a European import

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Speaker 1: if you look at Native American groups and cultures around

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Speaker 1: the world. I think that's a natural human impulse a

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Speaker 1: lot of times for us to get together and help

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Speaker 1: out where perhaps more traditional institutions or governments leave off

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly, um, which is why you see among marginalized communities,

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Speaker 1: among immigrant communities, and among women, uh, what one source

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Speaker 1: referred to as parallel power structures. You know, the a

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Speaker 1: lot of these people were shut out of the traditional

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Speaker 1: you know, white male power structures of the day, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the for profit companies, or just being able

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Speaker 1: to work at all, and so you have a lot

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Speaker 1: of these sort of parallel employment and activism tracks running

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Speaker 1: alongside the main economy. Yeah, and it's it's interesting to

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Speaker 1: see how women use this kind of work to sidestep

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Speaker 1: a lot of those even just legalities like uh, married

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Speaker 1: women not being allowed to own any property or any money,

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Speaker 1: so um, before that became legal. Um. You see wealthier

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Speaker 1: women in particular being really drawn to forming charitable organizations

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Speaker 1: because they could actually control the money in those situations,

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Speaker 1: or kind of on the flip side of that, a

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Speaker 1: lot of even earlier charitable work by women centers around

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Speaker 1: religious groups and nunneries because again that's the only way

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Speaker 1: that they can have more more independence and say is

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Speaker 1: by essentially like getting away from dudes, except for like god, dude,

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Speaker 1: thank god the bicycle was invented right right right away

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Speaker 1: from those dudes, to your nonprofit work, to your convent.

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Speaker 1: But you also see during this time too, it's not

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Speaker 1: just that more groups are emerging, it's that the existing

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Speaker 1: groups and the new nonprofits start becoming more organized. They

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Speaker 1: develop uh national level organizations with state and local chapters.

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Speaker 1: You know, you especially see the speaking of church just

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Speaker 1: you really see this with different Christian denominations. Um. And

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Speaker 1: someone who really really changed the nonprofit game, not surprisingly

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Speaker 1: in the eighteen eighties was super professionally wealthy dude Andrew Carnegie.

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Speaker 1: And um, he flipped the script right. So he criticized

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Speaker 1: traditional charity, saying that it only responded to suffering rather

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Speaker 1: than addressing the causes of poverty. And I'm like, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's a great attitude. We should be helping people and

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Speaker 1: meeting them where they are. Oh, but he felt that

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Speaker 1: it was because a lot of charitable giving only work

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Speaker 1: to encourage the slothful, the drunken, and the unworthy. So

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Speaker 1: that sounds a lot like our podcast a while back

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Speaker 1: on welfare and those progressive era concepts of bootstrapping and

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Speaker 1: moralizing poverty the deserving port right exactly. And and I

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Speaker 1: bring up Carnegie not because we want to dedicate a

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Speaker 1: whole podcast to him, um, but more because it is

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Speaker 1: important to note that in the history of voluntary association's

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Speaker 1: charity and nonprofits, it took very, very very wealthy men

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Speaker 1: like Carnegie, men who were making their millions off of

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Speaker 1: banking and railroads and things like that, mining, um, these

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Speaker 1: new booming industries in our country, the new giant billionaire

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Speaker 1: millionaire type people. It took them to sort of change

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Speaker 1: how nonprofits worked. And so it took a Carnegie or

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Speaker 1: a Rockefeller to launch these foundations. And of course the

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Speaker 1: foundations were meant to help people. They were meant to

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Speaker 1: direct funds to the deserving poor or what have you,

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Speaker 1: arts organizations, education, um. They were also a good way

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Speaker 1: to protect yourself from taxation, which would definitely come into

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Speaker 1: stark relief about thirty years after Carnegie started his foundation.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there's all these big men, these railroad guys,

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Speaker 1: these oil guys who were launching these early foundations. But

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Speaker 1: there are some really incredible early lady foundation starters. Many

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Speaker 1: of them have some problematic sides to them, they were

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Speaker 1: for sure products of their progressive era existence. Um, but

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Speaker 1: one that jumped out to me because she was literally

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Speaker 1: named alongside John D. Rockefeller, was Margaret Olivia Slocum Sage,

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Speaker 1: and she started a foundation to address social welfare issues.

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Speaker 1: Now stage is super impressive, right, So, in addition to

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Speaker 1: being incredibly wealthy, she grew up in a very conservative

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Speaker 1: family and attended the Troy Female Seminary because why wouldn't

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Speaker 1: our wealthy child from our wealthy family be educated. But

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Speaker 1: the side effect of going to the Troy fe Male

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Speaker 1: Seminary was that she was like, oh, women should have rights,

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Speaker 1: because that tends to happen when you educate your ladies.

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Speaker 1: And the Troy Female Seminary actually quietly advocated financial independence

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Speaker 1: for women through education. And so Margaret gets all of

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Speaker 1: these kookie ideas to try to do whatever she can

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Speaker 1: to reform women's role in society, and so she starts

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Speaker 1: out as a teacher once she graduates, which is of

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Speaker 1: course one of the only opportunities open to women to

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Speaker 1: participate in the mainstream economy. And in the meantime she's

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Speaker 1: frequently volunteering. She's like so rich and has all of

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Speaker 1: these doors open to her in life, and she's left

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Speaker 1: and right turning down marriage proposal. She just wants to volunteer.

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Speaker 1: And she finally marries though this railroad baron Russell's Sage

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Speaker 1: at the age of forty one. She's forty one or

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Speaker 1: he's forty one. She's forty one. Oh man, she's practically

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Speaker 1: dead according to UH women's age at that time. Practically yeah.

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Speaker 1: But here's the interesting thing about her, right so, um,

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Speaker 1: she's married to Russell for forty years. He kicks the bucket,

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Speaker 1: leaving her the single largest taxpayer in the entire country

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Speaker 1: because she has so much freaking money. She has a

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Speaker 1: quote from after her husband died, and that is, I

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Speaker 1: feel like I can finally live. So it like eighty

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Speaker 1: years old, Marge launches the Russell Sage Foundation UH with

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Speaker 1: the equivalent of like a billion dollars today, and it's

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Speaker 1: still active. Oh yeah, I I remember the Russell Stage Foundation,

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Speaker 1: from the nonprofit I worked for. Yeah, now Stage, you

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Speaker 1: know I've said problematic a couple of times now. She

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Speaker 1: did advocate things that reminded me a lot of peace

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Speaker 1: laugh Philish Laughley conservative traditional femininity, even though she did

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Speaker 1: work outside the home um and was big on the

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Speaker 1: idea of women earning their way. Um. She also advocated

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Speaker 1: stripping lands from Native Americans to give to the whites.

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Speaker 1: So she was not without her failings. Well, hopefully the

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Speaker 1: Russell Stage Foundation continues to make up for her racism.

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Speaker 1: Let's just call it that, one would hope. Um. We

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Speaker 1: also have to shout out though, a few other women

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Speaker 1: who use their money for good and this, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've got to remember too that like this is such

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Speaker 1: a new thing of women being able to kind of

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Speaker 1: throw their philanthropic weight around. And in the mid nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: if we head over to Hawaii, Yes, Hawaii, Hello Hawaiian listeners,

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Speaker 1: I know you're out there, and I love your state,

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Speaker 1: as I say anytime we get to talk about Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: So Bernice Howie Bishop was a Hawaiian noblewoman and philanthropist,

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Speaker 1: and she endowed schools that still exists, so I'm curious

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Speaker 1: to know if any Hawaiian listeners have heard of her. Um.

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Speaker 1: She was the leader in charitable organizations like a Stranger's

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Speaker 1: Friends Society, which helped sick travelers, which I could have

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Speaker 1: used when I was stuck on a boat in China

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Speaker 1: with a horrible food poison a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: And she headed up the Women's Sewing Society, which provided

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Speaker 1: clothes for the poor. And there were a lot of

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Speaker 1: similar societies where women would get together and use their

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Speaker 1: needlework and handicrafts to make blankets or clothes or even

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Speaker 1: during the Civil War, making bandages for people. So women,

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Speaker 1: you know, using the tools that they had, which a

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Speaker 1: lot of times were their hands, to make the world

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Speaker 1: a better place. Yeah. And then, as now, it was

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Speaker 1: so important to have a great partner, right, And so

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Speaker 1: when Bishop died of breast cancer in the late eighteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: her husband, who was super rich, started the first bank

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Speaker 1: in Hawaii, which is still like the biggest bank in

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian and I hope that's what it's called, just the biggest,

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Speaker 1: biggest bank in Huwaii. Um it's so big. He continued

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Speaker 1: all of her philanthropy he knew how important helping children,

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Speaker 1: educating children, providing for those less fortunate was, and so

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Speaker 1: he continued to help her educational foundation thrive, which I

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Speaker 1: just love it. Well, you also got to love old

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Speaker 1: Katherine Drexel. I mean, this woman was a real powerhouse,

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Speaker 1: both financially and also in the work that she did.

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Speaker 1: So she was around in the late nineteenth century, and

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Speaker 1: in case you were wondering, she was a direxel of

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Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Directxels. Very important. So, like we mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: one way that women found independence, ironically enough, was through

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Speaker 1: becoming a nun. And so Catherine becomes a nun, and

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Speaker 1: then she establishes missions in the South and West United

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Speaker 1: States to educate and provide for African Americans and Native Americans.

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Speaker 1: She also establishes orphanages schools and vowed not to quote

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Speaker 1: undertake any work which would leave to the neglect or

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Speaker 1: abandonment of those groups. So it sounds like Drexel less

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Speaker 1: problematic than Sage. I think yes, I think she is

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Speaker 1: generally less problematic than than on Margaret's Sage. And um,

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Speaker 1: basically her story is so fascinating because everybody in her

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Speaker 1: life was like Katie Katie, you're too rich, you're too beautiful.

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Speaker 1: You can't become a nun. You can't hide yourself away

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Speaker 1: like that. You've got to stay out in society. But

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Speaker 1: when she was younger and was able to travel because

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Speaker 1: her family was so disgustingly rich, the girl could travel

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Speaker 1: and she went out west and she saw what essentially

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Speaker 1: white people had done to American Indians, saw the poverty,

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Speaker 1: the alcoholism, She saw what was happening to African Americans

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Speaker 1: who were not provided for or if they had either

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Speaker 1: escaped slavery or had been freed and had no basically

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Speaker 1: communities of support. And so she was basically like, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna grow up and I'm going to help people however

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Speaker 1: I can. And she went to Rome, she got an

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Speaker 1: audience with the pope and she's like, I need you

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Speaker 1: to send missionaries to America to help these neglected people.

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Speaker 1: And the pope was like, um, hold up a mirror,

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Speaker 1: you are it. And she was like, oh, well, I

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Speaker 1: guess I should become a nun. And so she actually

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Speaker 1: ends up post becoming a nun. She gets a grant

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Speaker 1: from Drexel University because that's her uncle's school that he established,

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Speaker 1: and with the money, she and her fellow sisters founded

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Speaker 1: Xavier University in New Orleans, which is the only historically

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Speaker 1: black Catholic college in the US. And she was an

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Speaker 1: outspoken advocate both vocally and with money UH for aid

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Speaker 1: to reservation schools and anti lynching efforts. And in the

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Speaker 1: year two thousand she became a Saint. That's our second

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Speaker 1: saint on the podcast, We've got St. Catherine Drexel and

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Speaker 1: Saint pol Murray also shout out to New Orleans, Love

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Speaker 1: your city. Just this is just a geographical shoutout episode

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Speaker 1: for me. Um. I've always always wondered though about Xavier

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Speaker 1: because I have friends who went to Loyola and LSU,

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Speaker 1: which I knew was not in New Orleans, but ban

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Speaker 1: Rouge but donethe lest they're all right there, um, And

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Speaker 1: I had no idea about this history of Xavier because

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Speaker 1: driving into the city you always passed this like giant

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Speaker 1: sign for it. And now I want to go visit

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Speaker 1: the campus. Um. Around the same time, though, we have

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Speaker 1: Mary Elizabeth Garrett and her story reminds me of Monopoly

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Speaker 1: because she was the daughter of the B and O

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Speaker 1: Railroad president. UM and since she was born with a

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Speaker 1: vagina she couldn't exactly take over the family business, but

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Speaker 1: with a massive inheritance, she did manage to establish a

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Speaker 1: philanthropic group of super rich ladies called the Friday Evening. Dude, Dude,

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Speaker 1: I totally want to start a band that's called like

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Speaker 1: Caroline in the Friday Evening because it just sounds cool

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Speaker 1: that around this time you've got all of these like

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Speaker 1: smoky dark men's clubs right where all of the boys

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Speaker 1: are getting together and helping each other succeed in the world. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's an old girls club, an old rich girls club. Well,

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Speaker 1: and think about our episode on uh International Women's Day

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Speaker 1: and the labor reform movement, and how women well healed,

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Speaker 1: women like a Mary Elizabeth Garrett and her Friday Evening

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Speaker 1: friends would go out in their furs and fancy cars

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Speaker 1: and things and would sort of buffer serve as a

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Speaker 1: barricade for all these um working class people who would

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Speaker 1: be striking for union rights and you know, doing what

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Speaker 1: they could because the police, of course, we're not going

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Speaker 1: to come after and arrest a Mary Elizabeth Garrett. Um.

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Speaker 1: So it is cool to see how women at this

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Speaker 1: time were Yes, they were born into massive wealth, but

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Speaker 1: you do have some of them who were using it

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Speaker 1: not just to buy fancy new dresses. Well, and what's

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Speaker 1: so wonderful? You know we mentioned that women and generally,

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Speaker 1: you know, communities who were marginalized had to create these

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Speaker 1: parallel or alternative power structures. And the thing that comes

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Speaker 1: with money is that you can get people to do

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Speaker 1: what you want. And if you have a progressive outlook,

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Speaker 1: frequently that can mean paying people to be inclusive. It

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Speaker 1: becomes in their best financial interest to no longer be jerks.

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Speaker 1: And so Garrett provided hundreds of thousands of dollars to

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Speaker 1: John's Hopkins University to help establish its medical school on

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Speaker 1: the condition that they admit women. Yes, that is the

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Speaker 1: way you use your influence. And there was a quote

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Speaker 1: from one of the higher ups at the medical school

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Speaker 1: from the time, and he said something along the lines

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Speaker 1: of I so enjoyed being bought. Uh. Basically it worked

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Speaker 1: out for everyone. You get to have a prestigious medical

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Speaker 1: school and women get to be educated to be doctors. Now,

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Speaker 1: someone who was not born into wealth but who worked

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Speaker 1: her way up was Sarah Breedlove, better known as Madam C. J. Walker,

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Speaker 1: who in nineteen sixteen launched the Madam C. J. Walker

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Speaker 1: Benevolent Association, And in case you aren't familiar with Madam C. J. Walker,

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Speaker 1: she built a hair care empire UM focusing on African

429
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: American women's hair, and in the process she became America's

430
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: for a self made female millionaire UM. But she also

431
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: knew that giving back and reinvesting in communities was good business.

432
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: So she was kind of setting up what would be

433
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: the predecessor to like corporate responsibility departments now at bigger

434
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: businesses and corporations. Yeah, she knew that she could help

435
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: people and she felt that she had a responsibility to

436
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: do so. But she was no she was a smart cookie.

437
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Well, and also knowing to the importance of

438
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: investing in black communities in particular, So with her Benevolent Association,

439
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: she trained and employed women in the US, Caribbean and

440
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: Central America and just across the board. She was a

441
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: huge philanthropist and advocate for African Americans. And I mean

442
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't only you know, uh, the ports of just

443
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: investing in communities in the return that you would get

444
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: on that from, you know, the the uplift, the general uplift,

445
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: but also some good pr you know, she was you

446
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: would imagine that someone who reinvented herself as a madam C. J.

447
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: Walker new the power of pr And at this point

448
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: we have to take a leap in time to look

449
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: at our modern nonprofit landscape, which we're gonna do when

450
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: we come right back from a quick break. So the

451
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: nonprofit world is really a product of our post World

452
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: War two society. More than ninety per cent of nonprofits

453
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: today have been created since the nineteen fifties. And really

454
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: the non off its sector that we're familiar with and

455
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: kind of how it runs more as a business dates

456
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: only to the nineteen seventies, along with the rise of

457
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: NGOs or non governmental organizations, and it is the fastest

458
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: growing type of organization in the world. How about that. Well,

459
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: so you know I mentioned earlier with Andrew Carnegie and foundations,

460
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: I said something along the lines of it's a good

461
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: way to avoid texas well the origins of that, And

462
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: I'll go through this kind of quickly so we can

463
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: get to the good gender stuff. Uh that that could

464
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: be the alternate name of our podcast, by the way,

465
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: good gender stuff or a bad gender stuff depending. So

466
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 1: in the wake of the Great Depression and leading up

467
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: to World War two, you've got FDR who's super steeply

468
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: progressive income and estate taxes prompted the very very wealthy

469
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 1: in this country to find ways to avoid taxation through

470
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: large scale charitable giving. I mean, you see foundations like Carnegies,

471
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: but also like the Ford Foundation exploding, and and I

472
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: do not mean to say that our charitable foundations in

473
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: this country are in this world, are awful and have

474
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: terrible motives and things like that. Obviously, groups like the

475
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: Ford Foundation do incredible work. I'm simply giving you a

476
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: a little bit of an explainer as to why we

477
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: saw leading up to World War Two sort of this explosion.

478
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: And post World War Two, you've got the massive growth

479
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: of government, public sector subsidies, of charitable giving. Um, all

480
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: of these things are stimulating the growth of nonprofit enterprises

481
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: even more. And so by the seventies, a massive chunk

482
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: of nonprofit revenue was direct from the government thanks to

483
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: grants and contracts and vouchers like the g I Bill.

484
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: So basically the impact of all of this is that

485
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: again you see a massive rise in nonprofit organizations because

486
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: essentially they're doing a lot of the work on the

487
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: ground that the government can't or won't. They're almost like

488
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: contracting it out to a lot of these nonprofits to

489
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: handle a bunch of tasks. So in nineteen eighty Reagan

490
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: comes in in his president and he's like, whoa this

491
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: The government is way too big. There's way too much spending,

492
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: and the line between public and private is way too blurry.

493
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: But you've got to keep in mind that nonprofits were

494
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: dependent on all this government money. So all of a

495
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: sudden you have these organizations becoming less responsive to community

496
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: and client needs because they have a lot of their

497
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,239
Speaker 1: funding dry up from the government, and so they have

498
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: to become more business like and they have to bring

499
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: on more professional nonprofit managers to basically manage this newly

500
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: complicated funding environment. Oh gosh, And whenever we hear that

501
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,719
Speaker 1: word professionalize, it usually mean the men in suits taking

502
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: the highest paying jobs. Yeah, that I mean, I think

503
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: that that's like an excellent point to lead us right

504
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: off the diving board and into the gender pool. Let's go,

505
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: let's cannonvolve right in, belly flop right right on into

506
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: this gender pool. So it should come as no surprise

507
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: to our fair listeners that women make up a bulk

508
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: of the nonprofit workforce. But did you know, I didn't

509
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: realize it was this high. That on average, women, according

510
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: to study, makeup on average sent of the nonprofit workforce.

511
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: And when you break break down those rank and file numbers,

512
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. I didn't really expect this. But the

513
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: bigger the organization is and the more money it controls,

514
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: the fewer women percentage wise are in the organization. So

515
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: at smaller nonprofits, women are eighty two percent of the workforce.

516
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: At mid size groups there about seventy four. But when

517
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: you hit the big um nonprofits, ones that control like

518
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: twenty five million plus, women make up just fifty nine

519
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: percent of the workforce. Still not a minority, but still

520
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: a lot less than those smaller nonprofit organizations. I am

521
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 1: so not surprised because it follows this general pattern of

522
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 1: money where smaller nonprofits basically that's not even Yeah, still

523
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: have a smaller headcount, but we're really talking about your budget.

524
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: So at the teeny tiny nonprofits you were not making

525
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: often you might not even be making a living wage,

526
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 1: whereas if you are working in a massive nonprofit, it's

527
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: possible to make decent money. And so I would imagine

528
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: that that entices more men into the ranks. Not to

529
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: say that, um, guys are only out for you know,

530
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: the money and not for the causes. But I mean

531
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 1: it just fits in with this broader pattern that we

532
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: see in the nonprofit sector and other sectors lie teaching. Well,

533
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: you know when you talk about the higher ranks and

534
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: people rising to the top, Uh, fifty seven percent of

535
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: women who are in the nonprofit world do aspire to

536
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: reach that CEO level. Um. And interestingly, when you zero

537
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,479
Speaker 1: in on the eighteen to thirty four group, that number

538
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: jumps all the way up to seventy two because we

539
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: still have stars in our eyes and haven't realized that

540
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: it's just an old contact. Yeah, Oh my god, how

541
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: did I double up my contacts? No, wonder everything looks

542
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: like a hologram. Um. Yeah, that's exactly it. Because you

543
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: stereotypically or or statistically perhaps have not reached that burnout

544
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: level yet. Um. And so when you dive into why

545
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: women want to be CEOs, particularly in the nonprofit world, uh, frankly,

546
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: I mean one thing that should be so painfully obvious

547
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: is like, hello, they have role models and mentors just

548
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: by virtue of the fact that the industry as a

549
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: whole is so female dominated. You can easily see in

550
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: a lot of these nonprofits women who are running them

551
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: or at the top, or are managing things and in

552
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: control of stuff. Do you like how vague I'm being, um,

553
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: but basically you have foot footsteps to walk in. Absolutely,

554
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 1: And you also have this perception of work life balance

555
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: because you know, we millennials, we love our flex time

556
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: and paid holidays. I was surprised though, to see that

557
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: nonprofits tend to offer longer vacation packages. That was was

558
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: not my experience, but um, I was not mine either.

559
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 1: People in the nonprofit world. Maybe there there, maybe maybe

560
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: there are sectors within the nonprofit world because it is massive,

561
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 1: obviously UM that that might be the case. I would

562
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 1: imagine though, if you're in a midsized down to more

563
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: of a grassroots organization, there's very little time to take

564
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 1: off yea couple. Imagine you're wearing more hats, right literally

565
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: if you're working in a hat no profit, right, but

566
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: literally and figuratively. UM. And of course a lot of

567
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: those perks though do frequently come at the expense of

568
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: UM making a lower salary. But what an interesting side

569
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: note I came across is that, according to research, women

570
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: in the nonprofit realm who are over fifty five are

571
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: way more comfortable asking for raises compared with younger women.

572
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: Not surprising, but just an interesting side note that with

573
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: experience and burnout comes basically the cajones to be like, no,

574
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: you're you're going to pay me more money now? Well,

575
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: and it it might also be that they're uh, their

576
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: starry eyed dreams have worn off a bit, because, um

577
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: it is another millennial value, as I experience, to be

578
00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: attracted to the nonprofit sector because you want to work

579
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: for a cause that you are passionate about. And thankfully

580
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: we are seeing universities developing degree plans for nonprofit management

581
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: and social entrepreneurship to outline more of a direct path.

582
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: But the problem is if you are starting out or

583
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: even just not starting out, if you were still in

584
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: like an entry level position, because I know women that

585
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: I worked alongside of my nonprofitty were there for years

586
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: and still making next to nothing. Um, you you get

587
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: into a cycle that is completely dependent on obviously donations

588
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: and foundations and very relevant to our recent recession, government funding.

589
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: And so during that time when a lot of budgets,

590
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: especially government funding just dried up, you get locked in

591
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: the cycle of having no budget, but it's not like

592
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: the mission goes away and you have to in order

593
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: to apply for grants and to grow your nonprofit and

594
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: expand your mission. Those grantees and philanthropic organizations and foundations

595
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: want to see the evidence of your work in action.

596
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: But if you don't have the money to do it,

597
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: then how are you going to do it? And so

598
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: what you do is you have employees who are doing

599
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: a lot for not a little, and you can get

600
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: away with that, so to speak, the most with younger employees,

601
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: right because it's the whole attitude that is especially prevalent

602
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,479
Speaker 1: in the nonprofit world of paying your dues. You're young,

603
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: you're you are starry eyed, and we're going to take

604
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: advantage of you until we suck the soul out of

605
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: your body. There's just the expectation and nonprofit people, I

606
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: want to hear from you, if it's worse than some

607
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: areas better than others, if you've experienced this expectation that

608
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: you will give a hundred and fifty percent until you

609
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: are just sucked dry and we'll step down. Now. I

610
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: do I do want to say that it's it's not

611
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: all terrible. This is also reminding me of a little

612
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: reunion that I had with my old nonprofit UM managers

613
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: and co workers last year, and I was so thrilled

614
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: to see one of my I guess she was more

615
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: she was more of a manager when I was working

616
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: with her, And she's now working at a very household

617
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: brand nonprofit that all of you listening have heard of,

618
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: and she loves it. She loves her job so much,

619
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: and part of it is just what she's doing in

620
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: donor relations really fits her personality. But also, I mean,

621
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: this woman is just an embodiment of integrity and she

622
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: has been blown away by how well such a large

623
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: organization is run, so it can be done in the

624
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: right way. But also too, I mean, I wonder and

625
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: nonprofit people again, you know, we totally want to hear

626
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: from you, because I wonder if it is harder if

627
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: you are mid sized to smaller organization, because someone who

628
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: is like an A list nonprofit, they're going to just

629
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: have bigger budgets. So I'm gonna wonder if there's more

630
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: more room for more salaries and perks, right and you

631
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: and I read an Atlantic article that discussed the Department

632
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: of Labor updating its overtime rules UM and basically it

633
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: doubled the threshold for guaranteed overtime pay from twenty three

634
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 1: thousand to just over forty seven thousand dollars. And while

635
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: there was a lot of pushback from companies in general

636
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: in our Economy UM, the article outline how some of

637
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: the largest protests came from the nonprofit sector because they

638
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: basically were like, what you're doing in making us pay

639
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: our employees more and cover their overtime is you're taking

640
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: money out of the coffers to go support the cause.

641
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: But there were plenty of other non profits who stepped

642
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: up to sign a letter essentially saying, sure, but it

643
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: is high time that we valued our employees, the people

644
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: who are out there doing the work, helping people. It's

645
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: time that we show that we do value them as well.

646
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: Right Because what you're talking about right there are your

647
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: lowest paid workers. So what the subtext of protesting that

648
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: is saying like, hey, we we need our lowest paid

649
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: workers unpaid work. And it's like, well, where is the line?

650
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: You know? So no wonder you tend to have high

651
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: turnover in a nonprofit sector and incredibly high rates of

652
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 1: burnout which also um our episode with Emily Aries talking

653
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 1: about bossed up and burnout would probably be a good

654
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: follow up to to this one. And it makes sense

655
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: that the women who don't aspire to the CEO positions,

656
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,959
Speaker 1: then most of them blame it on the time come

657
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: of it required and the stress involved in leading a nonprofit.

658
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: Not everybody wants to take that on and I totally

659
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 1: get it. But when it comes to leadership, the CEO

660
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: level stuff, the executive director level stuff, um men are

661
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: the ones who tend to be at the tippity top

662
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: of the very top. And we see this in education,

663
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: we see it in library sciences, we see it in

664
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 1: social work, which we are doing an episode on next.

665
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 1: Men make up seventy nine percent of CEOs at large

666
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: organizations with budgets over twenty five million dollars sevent and

667
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 1: compare that seventy nine percent to the fact that women

668
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: make up fifty nine percent of the total workforce at

669
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: those larger nonprofits. And it's not just a salary issue.

670
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: A poll found that female nonprofit workers uh sense a

671
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: gender bias? Yeah, fort of women nonprofit workers think that

672
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,959
Speaker 1: their organization's favor men over equally qualified women. For those

673
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: chief leadership positions and at those big million dollar plus

674
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: UH nonprofit organizations of women said that their organizations didn't

675
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: put as much effort into identifying and soliciting affluent women

676
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: as it does men, which is really strange to me

677
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: and not something I've thought about, but it's it's a

678
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: huge mistake. Deborah Mesh, who's the director of the Women's

679
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: Philanthropy Institute at Indiana University UH, says that when you

680
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: when it comes to people running these huge nonprofits looking

681
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: at their donors, women are not considered to be major

682
00:45:53,920 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: donors or decision makers the way men are. And she said, actually, guys, UH,

683
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: women tend to be much more loyal donors than men,

684
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: and they are often better at asking their network. This

685
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: goes back to the Friday evening girls. UH. They're often

686
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: much better at asking their network of friends for support.

687
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: And she said, we certainly see that in many studies

688
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: there are financial gains for organizations when more women are

689
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: on the board. So how many women are on the board.

690
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: Not enough women make up of nonprofit board members. But

691
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: again when you get up to those boards of those humongous,

692
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: big budget nonprofits, that number drops to just a third

693
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 1: of the board members. Not to mention, those women CEOs

694
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: make twenty nine percent less than male CEOs at those

695
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: largest nonprofits, which is a larger salary gap than in

696
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: the general economy, although you see it shrink along with

697
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: the size of the organization because a smaller than nonprofit

698
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: the more women that you have working there. And it

699
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: makes me kind of just want to take a nap

700
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: because it's very exhausting to see women's work so completely

701
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: and totally undervalued, even though without nonprofits our society would

702
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: fall apart. But here is the thing. There is a

703
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: major problem with gender, okay, but there's an even major

704
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: rarer problem with how few people of color are in

705
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,919
Speaker 1: those power positions on those boards and running nonprofits. Yeah.

706
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: Derwin DuBose and Ruth McCambridge both wrote about this over

707
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: at Nonprofit Quarterly, and they cited a fourteen board source

708
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: study that found that eighty percent of nonprofit board members

709
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:54,479
Speaker 1: and nine of board chairs were white, as were eight

710
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: nine percent of the executives. Nearly a third of the

711
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: nonprofit words they looked at lacked a single person of color.

712
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 1: And the thing is, those numbers really haven't changed much

713
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: in like twenty years despite the fact that you have

714
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: so many nonprofits out there who say, yeah, diversity and

715
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: inclusivity are our core values. And they talked to people

716
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: of color who actually existed at some of these organizations,

717
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: and more than sixty so that they felt excluded from

718
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: power within their organization. In thirteen percent reported experiencing tokenism.

719
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: And as research from the Anti Casey Foundation highlighted, there

720
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: is a major disconnect between the lack of diversity and

721
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: who is running and controlling the purse strings of these

722
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: nonprofits and the fact that at least sixty percent of

723
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: nonprofits are directly serving people of color. So if you

724
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: aren't having that kind of representation on your board, words, staff,

725
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: or leadership team, not to mention your volunteers, people of

726
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: color end up as passive recipients rather than active partners.

727
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: And oh, this is reminding me so much of Ray's

728
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: new show. My God, I was just gonna say that

729
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: on HBO it's called Insecure, and she works at one

730
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 1: of these quintessentially white, smaller budget nonprofits, and she's the

731
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: token black person because we're gonna help We're going to

732
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 1: help the urban youths. But really it crystallizes a lot

733
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: of this podcast. We could have just said alone and

734
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. Go watch Insecure. Maybe he should

735
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: do it anyway, it's a really good ship, but it

736
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: is it's a fairly accurate representation. Yeah, and uh. Tissianna Daring,

737
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: who is a Boston College professor and the former executive

738
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: director of Harvard's Houser Center for Nonprofit Organization, says, as

739
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: a result, we miss assets that they value in the

740
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: community and run the risk of failing to understand what

741
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: quality is to those whom organizations seek to support and

742
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: under leverage passion for change. Because when you look at

743
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: nonprofit employees, not not the CEOs, but when you look

744
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: at the employees, only eight percent of them are people

745
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: of color. Uh. And that breaks down to ten percent

746
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: of them being African American, five percent Hispanic or Latino,

747
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: and just one percent Asian or Pacific Islander. So you

748
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: are missing out, in general in the nonprofit world on

749
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: a lot of voices who would have so much to

750
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: contribute to these organizations missions. But what it's going to

751
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: take to change this situation is really pulling Mary Elizabeth Garrett.

752
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: If you are a stakeholder and an influencer with the

753
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 1: financial cloud to do it. You vote with your money.

754
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: You say, hey, I would be happy to donate to

755
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: your organization if you would maybe diversify your staff. Yeah, exactly,

756
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: And I mean Debose points out that there really has

757
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: to be a clear commitment to inclusivity. And Debose talks

758
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: about how people of color who go interview for these

759
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: nonprofit jobs report that they feel most confident. And this

760
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: is pretty common sense and not surprising at all, but

761
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: they feel most confident in the words that the interviewer

762
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,959
Speaker 1: is saying when there are actually people of color there

763
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: to back up those words, those nice pretty words about

764
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 1: diversity and inclusivity. Um. A lot of people he spoke with,

765
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: and a lot of the studies he cited just show

766
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: a general sense of kind of disillusionment and not being

767
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: connected because all of these nonprofits are like, yeah, we

768
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: want to be inclusive and diverse and help diverse communities,

769
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: but we haven't really hired any people of color, and

770
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: that can lead to a lot of disillusionment and burnout. Well,

771
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: and I'm sure um extra burnout too if you are

772
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: the array in your office, if you are one of

773
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: the only people of color in your office. I mean,

774
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: obviously that that would apply whether you're working in a

775
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 1: nonprofit or not. But when you add the typical conditions

776
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: of a nonprofit where you might be not paid so

777
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: much and doing a lot and sometimes depending on the mission,

778
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: it can be hugely emotionally draining as well. UM, that

779
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: just adds another layer to all of this. And it's

780
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: not surprising to see that an Opportunity Knocks survey found

781
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: that half of nonprofit sector employees might be burned out

782
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: or in danger of burnout. Um, but A, there's really

783
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: no time for self care and be there's no time,

784
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: there's no money for therapy. Yeah, exactly. And and Sophie

785
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:06,479
Speaker 1: morrisset I wonder if she's related to Atlantis UM wrote

786
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 1: a piece really recently over at the Stanford Social Innovation

787
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: Review where she's like, yeah, this is not surprising, and

788
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: nonprofit leaders are super familiar with chronic nonprofit employee burnout

789
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: to the point where it's almost just not that it's

790
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: written into the job description, but it's definitely imprinted on

791
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: people's expectations of their employees. And she says, you know,

792
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: the usual tips are to take vacation, no your boundaries,

793
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: let go of the need to do it all, but

794
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 1: she has some more advice from third Sector Today that

795
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 1: she cites, which is basically like it's kind of depressing advice. Um.

796
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,760
Speaker 1: She says, you need to know when to leave, set

797
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 1: a firm end date for your work with anyone organization,

798
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: recognize the feeling of burnout creep, and leave before you

799
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,760
Speaker 1: end up freaking out, flipping over a table and burning bridges.

800
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: She says, Hey, you know, on the on the upside,

801
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: this makes room for people with fresh ideas and allows

802
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: you to return if and when you feel refreshed and

803
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: ready to take it all back on and listen. I

804
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,919
Speaker 1: will add something else to that from my own experience,

805
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: if possible, find your allies who can help maintain that

806
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 1: awareness of what's going on. And I'm talking about maybe yes,

807
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: like signs of your own personal burnout creep, but also

808
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: signs that the nonprofit is not really treating employees in

809
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: the way that it should be. So go ahead and

810
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: get out when you can. And in fact, that is

811
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: what my boss, who mentored me in a lot of ways,

812
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 1: did for me at that nonprofit job. He said, listen,

813
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: you know, this mission that we're working on is incredible,

814
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: but I think that you would be best served if

815
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: you go, because you know the hammer is going to

816
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: come down at some point. Um. And I am still

817
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: thankful to him to this day because that's how I

818
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: ended up ultimately in this podcast studio and to that end,

819
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: Morris Set advises nonprofit leaders on how that they can

820
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: make a big difference. Um, you can offer that moral support, yes,

821
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: but if you can pay people more and provide perks,

822
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: that's huge. But I feel like that's so much easier

823
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: said than done in the nonprofit realm. I mean because too,

824
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: there's that issue of the lines being bored between employees

825
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 1: and volunteers, and you often ending up being treated like

826
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 1: a volunteer and not being paid for the work that

827
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: you're doing, or treated like family. So when it's time

828
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: to ask for a raise, if things get really uncomfortable

829
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 1: because you feel like you're being rude to a friend

830
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: or or something like that, we're taking money away from

831
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 1: your mission. Let's say your mission is helping kids in

832
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: some way, It's like, well, we would give you more money,

833
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: but what about the kids? And of course the kids

834
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: need help too, but um, if half of your sector

835
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: are burned out, that's that's not going to help the

836
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: kids at the end of the day. So I am

837
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: wondering what people listening to those who are who are

838
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 1: in that sector UM have experienced. UM. And one gender

839
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:32,240
Speaker 1: dynamic that we didn't get into is in more of

840
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: the startup realm, where it's more acceptable, gender norm wise,

841
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: for a young woman to start a nonprofit than to

842
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: start a for profit startup. UM. This is actually something

843
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 1: that Emily Ari's of Bossed Up writes about her intent

844
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: to start specifically a for profit enterprise simply because that

845
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: is her vision and her goal and you know, she

846
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: didn't want, doesn't care to be steered into what is

847
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 1: considered you know, a more appropriate realm. You know, just

848
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: go go the nonprofit route. You know, women are more

849
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: likable when they are leading nonprofits than when they're leading businesses.

850
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: Why is that the case? And why is it totally

851
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: cool that this overwhelmingly female dominated sector is borderline exploited

852
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: a lot of times? Exactly, you're just expected to work

853
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: for the passion of it. Yeah, and I mean, and

854
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: these are broad, sweeping statements to make about a massive sector. UM,

855
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: But there there's some there's some major issues going on

856
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: behind the scenes of all of that terrific on the

857
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: groundwork that nonprofits are doing. So with that, since you

858
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: have so much time, people who are working in nonprofits,

859
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: write us a letter. Uh no, but sincerely, we want

860
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: to hear from you. Um if you volunteer with nonprofits,

861
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: or if you work in the sector, or if you

862
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: have benefited from services, we would love to hear all

863
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: of your perspectives on this. Mom Stuff at how stuff

864
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: works dot com is where you can send your letters.

865
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or

866
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: messages on Facebook. And we've got a couple of messages

867
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: to share with you when we come right back from

868
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: a quick break. Are right. I have a letter here

869
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: from Brittany in response to our Oprah Wasn't Built in

870
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: a Day episode, and she says all I can say

871
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: is thank you. Literally, the night before I listen to

872
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: this episode, I was on my couch crying over a

873
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: glass of wine with my husband because I hate my

874
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: job and feel frustrated that I cannot break into the

875
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: field I want to work in, which is hr. The

876
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: frustration came because as I was reading through literally hundreds

877
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 1: of job postings, it became increasingly clear to me that

878
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: I was not qualified for these jobs. Despite my bachelor's

879
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: degree in business and my human resource management certificate. Enter

880
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 1: smenty quote. Women don't apply to jobs until they feel

881
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: one percent qualified, whereas men will apply when they feel

882
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: only sixty qualified. Wow. I re well on the podcast

883
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: twice to listen to that again. In that moment, I

884
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: had an epiphany. I constantly feel overqualified and bored at

885
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: any job. I have no wonder considering I apply to

886
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: jobs that I'm already completely qualified for, So within two

887
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 1: months I am bored out of my skull. Since listening

888
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: to the episode, I have applied to hr jobs that

889
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: I am sixty to eighty percent qualified for. I also

890
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: taped a piece of paper to my bathroom mirror that reads,

891
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 1: Oprah wasn't built in a day. Great reminder every morning

892
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: to just keep going. Thank you for your awesome podcast

893
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: and for inspiring me to go after my dream job. Brittany, Brittany,

894
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: now we're gonna be crying into a glass of wine.

895
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: I'm so happy for you. And girl, let me tell

896
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 1: you that six versus thing let a fire under me too,

897
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: and I am so happy for you. So I have

898
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: a letter here from Alyssa about the same episode, and

899
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 1: she writes Oprah Wasn't Built in a day. Seriously, could

900
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: not have come at a better time for me. I'm

901
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: in my first semester of grad school working on my

902
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 1: Master of Library Science shout out to your librarians episodes,

903
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: and I've had a rough couple of days academically. I

904
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 1: goofed pretty majorly on two different assignments, and I definitely

905
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: had to cry myself to sleep, want to give up

906
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: moment listening to your podcast. I totally related to everything

907
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: you talked about. I've always been internally motivated and done

908
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: well academically. Failure is not something to which I am accustomed.

909
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: This episode was exactly what I needed to realize that

910
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: it's okay to mess up sometimes. It was just two

911
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: assignments in a two year program that I'm super excited about.

912
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: Life goes on. Just as Oprah wasn't built to a day,

913
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: neither is a master's degree. Oh thank you so much, Alissa.

914
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 1: I am so happy that it came at the right

915
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: time for you. And you know what, Caroline, I'm just

916
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: glad you bought that t shirt that says over wasn't

917
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: Built in a day, because I think you have started

918
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: a movement teas in the trap of help start a movement.

919
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: I love that T shirt and I'm so glad that

920
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: cinement resonates with all of you. And if you have

921
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: a letter to share with us, mom stuff at how

922
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 1: stuffworks dot com is where you can do it and

923
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:29,919
Speaker 1: for links to all of our social media as well

924
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts with our

925
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: sources so you can learn even more about nonprofits. Head

926
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: on over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com

927
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Does

928
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com