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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul Mission Controlled decad Most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: This evening, we're returning to one of the strangest cases

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Speaker 3: of assassination in US history, which is saying a lot

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Speaker 3: if you know anything about US history. We talked about

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Speaker 3: parts of this story in numerous previous episodes. Do check

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Speaker 3: out our work on the assassination of JFK in nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty three. Also check out Rob Reiner's excellent recent deep

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Speaker 3: dive Who Killed JFK, And then also look into some

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Speaker 3: of our previous work in this and other shows on

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Speaker 3: the death of JFK's brother, Robert Kennedy just five years

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Speaker 3: later in nineteen sixty eight.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's a ton of previous work. We would

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Speaker 2: send everybody over to listen to the RFK tapes, which

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Speaker 2: is a show that came out June fifth, twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 2: exactly fifty years after the assassination of RFK. It's Really Good,

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Speaker 2: hosted by a guy named Zach Stewart Pontier and Bill Klaber,

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Speaker 2: who then went on to host the MLK tapes that

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Speaker 2: we made in twenty twenty two about Martin Luther King's

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Speaker 2: assassination also in nineteen sixty eight.

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Speaker 3: It was a heck of a year.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and just up top, guys, I wanted to

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Speaker 2: mention this because I literally found out as I was

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Speaker 2: doing research for this episode, the connective tissue between rfk's

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Speaker 2: assassination and mlk's assassination is this attorney named William Pepper.

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Speaker 2: He was a big part of the MLK. Well, he

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Speaker 2: was interviewed for the RFK tapes, but he's a big

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Speaker 2: part of the MLK tapes, and the host Bill Klaber,

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Speaker 2: spent a bunch of time with him in his home

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Speaker 2: and I just found out he passed away on April

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Speaker 2: seventh this year.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this year.

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Speaker 2: Really sad. He's like an amazing human being that's done

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Speaker 2: an incredible amount of work and it's just really sad

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Speaker 2: that he's.

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Speaker 3: Passed and he has quite a record, mister Pepper of activism,

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Speaker 3: of investigation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and well he represented Syrah and Syrian and he

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Speaker 2: also represented James Earl ray On, behalf of the King family.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it may surprise some of us, especially younger listeners.

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Speaker 3: You might hear us some an assassination happened multiple in

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight. That was a long time ago, so

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Speaker 3: it might it might baffle you to realize that the

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Speaker 3: man who murdered RFK is alive today. The man who

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Speaker 3: was convicted a first degree murder in the case of

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Speaker 3: Robert Kennedy is alive today. In fact, he almost got

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Speaker 3: parole not too long ago, and his legal team has

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Speaker 3: been attempting to get him parolled for decades as well.

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Speaker 3: We had in our episode on Drugs as Weapons, we

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Speaker 3: had a conversation about Jimson whed and Datura. Yeah, it

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Speaker 3: prompted us to return to a question that well over

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Speaker 3: thirty five percent of Americans have been asking for a

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Speaker 3: very long time. Was rfk's assassin, Sirhan Sirhan involved in

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Speaker 3: a conspiracy? Here are the facts. First, I mean, I

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Speaker 3: feel like maybe we're in an information bubble because the

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Speaker 3: three of us know or the four of us know

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Speaker 3: who Sirran Sirrahan is, But do we think most people

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Speaker 3: know or is it just a name they might have heard.

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Speaker 4: I think it might largely be a name I might

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Speaker 4: have heard, simply because it's kind of remarkable as a name,

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Speaker 4: you know, it immediately makes you sort of take notice

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Speaker 4: with what, what's a double name? What's that about? And also,

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Speaker 4: by the way, Jimson Weed, doesn't that sound like a

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Speaker 4: nom de plume for like some sort of Southern Fried

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Speaker 4: like author or something. I really like.

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Speaker 3: We like him as an old prospector. Yeah, his dog's

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Speaker 3: name is silver, of course. Okay, yeah, I think I

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Speaker 3: was on that episode.

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Speaker 4: But I do love that. Sirhan Bishara Sirhan Man literally's

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Speaker 4: first name, last name, same thing that must have been intentional.

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Speaker 4: Was born in Jerusalem mandatory really yeah wow, mandatory Palestine.

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Speaker 4: It's very consistent upon itself on March nineteenth, nineteen forty four.

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Speaker 4: He was raised as a Palestinian Christian and was also

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Speaker 4: born with Jordanian citizenship. He moved to the US at

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Speaker 4: the age of twelve, to New York and then eventually

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Speaker 4: to California, where he attended Pasadena City College.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of an American dream. Sirahan has as

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Speaker 3: of this point not acquired US citizenship and remains a

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Speaker 3: citizen of the nation of Jordan. I love your point

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Speaker 3: out religion because he was always a fervent Christian growing up,

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Speaker 3: and like many people, he was on a search for

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Speaker 3: spiritual meaning, so he evaluated several different Christian denominations. As

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Speaker 3: an adult, he attended Baptist services, he spent time as

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Speaker 3: a Seventh Day Adventist, and eventually he joined an esoteric

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Speaker 3: organization called the Rosicrucians in nineteen sixty six, which will

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Speaker 3: be familiar to longtime listeners.

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Speaker 4: For sure, the Order of the Rose Cross.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, in his case he joined the largest one,

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Speaker 3: the ancient mystical Order of the Rose Cross. Its describes

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Speaker 3: itself as a fraternal order, a philosophical, a political order

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Speaker 3: that is devoted to quote, the study of the elusive

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Speaker 3: mysteries of life and the universe. Nothing weird, nothing vague.

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Speaker 4: Well, folks might remember that from our conversations around the

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Speaker 4: Georgia guidestones and the potential identity of R. C. Christian,

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Speaker 4: which that you know, a pseudonym RC believed to be

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Speaker 4: referring to Rose Cross and then was a member of

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Speaker 4: that order as well, which has a lot of parallels

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Speaker 4: to Freemason kind of ideology.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is I'm glad you mentioned that as well,

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Speaker 3: because Rosicrucianism is already bound up in multiple unrelated conspiracy theories.

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Speaker 3: So for the many people who believe there's more to

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Speaker 3: Sirhan Sirhan's story, whatever that might be, this association can

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Speaker 3: feel like not quite a red flag, but maybe a

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Speaker 3: rosy one, a not worth it, I don't.

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Speaker 4: Know, look of the world through Rosaicretian colored glasses.

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Speaker 3: You will, However, Surhan Surhan is now not famous for

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Speaker 3: not best known for being a member of a rose

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Speaker 3: Crucian order, is unfortunately best known for the assassination of

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Speaker 3: Senator Robert Kennedy at the Ambassador Hotel on June fifth,

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, the one year anniversary of the nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty seven Arab Israeli War.

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Speaker 2: And another name for that war is the Sixth Day War.

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Speaker 2: You can look that up if you'd like to. It's

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Speaker 2: another one of those times in history where there was

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of often hidden and sometimes overt

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Speaker 2: anti Israel sentiment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of Islamophobia as well. A lot

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Speaker 3: of bad blood is the best way to put it.

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Speaker 3: This is also known as the Third Arab Israeli War,

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Speaker 3: and it's called Arab Israeli, of course, is a specific state.

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Speaker 3: It's called Arab because a coalition of Arab states. We're

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Speaker 3: on the other side of the conflict, primarily Syria, Egypt,

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Speaker 3: and Sirhan, Sirhan's homeland of Jordan. So there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of context that goes into this, and will later learn

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Speaker 3: what Sirhan himself says about this, and then later reneges

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Speaker 3: upon a couple of times. Things are On the day

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Speaker 3: of his death on June fifth, nineteen sixty eight, things

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Speaker 3: are looking pretty great for Robert Kennedy. It's a very

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Speaker 3: tense situation. You know, if you've ever lost a sibling,

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Speaker 3: you don't just get over it. So the death of

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Speaker 3: his brother and one of his closest friends is still

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Speaker 3: very much haunting him. And like the rest of America,

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Speaker 3: Robert Kennedy has very serious questions about the official investigation

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Speaker 3: into the murder of JFK.

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Speaker 2: Well, as we learned with our previous look at JFK,

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Speaker 2: his brother RFK that we're talking about today, is he

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Speaker 2: owes his political rear to his brother, right, Like he

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Speaker 2: was brought into the fold by JFK essentially appointed, and

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Speaker 2: you know, America overall was not too happy about RFK

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Speaker 2: getting appointed to where he was, Like remember when he

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Speaker 2: brought when he was brought in as I think attorney general.

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Speaker 3: He was yes, without despite not having qualifications to be

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Speaker 3: attorney general.

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Speaker 2: So you can imagine they're not just brothers. They're like

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Speaker 2: in a way, business partners, very closely tied right in

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Speaker 2: their political careers. So when JFK is assassinated, it's let's say,

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Speaker 2: it was of high interest to his brother and business partner.

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Speaker 3: And just like his brother, Kennedy, Robert Kennedy is no

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Speaker 3: fan of the company or the agency, the CIA. They

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Speaker 3: do not get along.

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Speaker 2: He in the FBI right because because of some of

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Speaker 2: the implications that had been going on with activity, let's say,

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Speaker 2: monitoring activities by the FBI.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, these are the days of a different kind of

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Speaker 3: wire tapping than people labor under in this country. In

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, Robert Kennedy is running for president. He

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Speaker 3: is the Democratic front runner. Right now, he's in California.

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Speaker 3: He has successfully done his bit to achieve like to

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Speaker 3: get one step closer to being the Democratic candidate for

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Speaker 3: the next presidential election. So he's at the Ambassador Hotel.

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Speaker 3: The reason we're bringing up the CIA FBI connections, they

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Speaker 3: go deep. It's also interesting to note that he has

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Speaker 3: a lot of unofficial bodyguards at this point, several athletes

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Speaker 3: who just believe in his cause, believe in his mission,

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Speaker 3: and he has been on record saying to the FBI

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Speaker 3: and CIA associate it's like, stay away, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean. I don't need your involvement here. I am

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Speaker 3: running a presidency for the people, so I want to

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Speaker 3: meet the people.

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Speaker 2: But he has a former FBI agent rolling with him, right.

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Speaker 4: He does.

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Speaker 3: He has a former FBI agent that we'll get to

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Speaker 3: or or a former associate. We'll see, we'll see.

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Speaker 2: Like Bill Berry, isn't it right? Am I wrong?

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Speaker 3: I thought, Oh, I'm thinking of Thane Caesar, who was

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Speaker 3: a security guard was in the in the area but

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Speaker 3: not working directly with r fk.

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Speaker 2: Oh Okay, not that was Bill Berry. There was a

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Speaker 2: there's an ex FBI agent who was also rolling with

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Speaker 2: him at the time when like at least when he well,

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Speaker 2: we'll get to. But when he went into the area

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Speaker 2: where he was shot.

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Speaker 3: Emphasis on x FBI agent. What we're saying is that

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Speaker 3: many of the people in the Ambassador Hotel at this

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Speaker 3: time had interesting past all their own. Each could be

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Speaker 3: an epic. Well, many of them could be their own episodes. Uh,

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Speaker 3: we'll give you the official story, Sirhan. The court found

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Speaker 3: Sirhan shot Robert Kennedy four to times with a twenty

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Speaker 3: two caliber pistol, leading to Kennedy's death twenty six hours later,

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Speaker 3: due primarily to injuries to the brainstem and to his head,

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Speaker 3: his occipital lobe and so on. Other victims were there.

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Speaker 3: Other people got shot. There were six shooting victims all

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Speaker 3: in all, including some journalists, a democratic activist, a campaign volunteer.

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Speaker 3: All of the other people except RFK survived thankfully. And

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Speaker 3: Sirhan has tackled immediately he's brought to the ground. He's

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Speaker 3: still firing wildly in the air by ourn.

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Speaker 4: Tired football player, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and Rayfer Johnson, who was an Olympic athlete and

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Speaker 2: to Catalon gold medalist. Yeah, those two guys were the

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Speaker 2: kind of the security detail we were talking about.

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Speaker 4: Rosie Greer being the name of the La Rams I

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Speaker 4: believe former football player.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's correct. No relation to the Rosicrucians that we

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Speaker 3: know of, or there or. This is definitely an or

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Speaker 3: is there episode, because when Sirhan is being taken down,

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Speaker 3: he is alleged to have been yelling out things like

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Speaker 3: I can explain, and I did this for my country.

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Speaker 4: What a thing to say whilst mid shooting spree. No, really,

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Speaker 4: give me a chance to explain. It's all good. Don't

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Speaker 4: worry about it.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, like someone's gonna go wait, let's hear.

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Speaker 4: Him out, Jesus.

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Speaker 3: So later he would note in a couple of different conversations,

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Speaker 3: he would note that he felt betrayed by rfk's support

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Speaker 3: of Israel. There are there's a specific moment he cites

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Speaker 3: where he says, I decided RFK had to die three

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Speaker 3: weeks ago before I came to the Ambassador hotel because

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Speaker 3: I was incensed by his that he was going to

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Speaker 3: send military support to Israel, specifically jets.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, in his pocket there was a newspaper clipping

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Speaker 2: that specifically said, quote, the United States should, without delay,

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Speaker 2: sell Israel the fifty phantom jets she has so long

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Speaker 2: been promised, which is a quote from Kennedy in that clipping.

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Speaker 2: And I think it can also be noted that when

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Speaker 2: when Sire and Sirhan's home was rated, there was a

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Speaker 2: notebook allegedly in there that had scribbling all over it

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Speaker 2: quote RFK must die. Like like, we'll.

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Speaker 3: Get to that too. Oh yeah, yeah, that's.

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Speaker 4: The stuff of like conspiracy movies, you know where you

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Speaker 4: see it like scrawled on the wall and blood or something,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as we'll find later in this episode, it's definitely

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Speaker 3: the stuff of premeditation.

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Speaker 2: If he actually wrote it, put it there, just just

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Speaker 2: putting that out there.

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Speaker 3: Yep. And before it gets all of that, let's get

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Speaker 3: to the let's go back to that specific day, the

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Speaker 3: aftermathic conspiracy. As we said, he's captured, he's tacked, he

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Speaker 3: is disarmed at the scene. A few days later, he

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Speaker 3: confesses to the murder to police and interrogation, but then

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Speaker 3: he pleads not guilty, and there's this trial that goes

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Speaker 3: on for quite some time. A judge. His legal team

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Speaker 3: later asked the judge to allow him to change his

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Speaker 3: plead too guilty after those papers are found in his

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Speaker 3: home that have what you would call highly implicating language,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, kind of the way that

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Speaker 3: a celebrity stalker might be found to have a bunch

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Speaker 3: of writing in their home that for prosecution can function

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Speaker 3: as evidence of escalation, right, evidence of going from compulsive

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Speaker 3: thoughts to action. And this is a thing that happens.

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Speaker 3: The question is, you know, the question about the providence

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Speaker 3: of the handwriting, the origin of the writing, stuff like

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Speaker 3: that that has been an extreme focus for a lot

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Speaker 3: of what we will call independent researchers. Maybe he also

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Speaker 3: he did something I don't know how to feel about this.

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Speaker 3: According to witnesses and reporters during this lengthy trial, he

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Speaker 3: behaved in an odd manner and for more I guess

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Speaker 3: cynical or skeptical observers. They were certain that he was

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Speaker 3: acting this way on purpose, trying to put on a

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Speaker 3: show to bolster his legal team's argument that he had

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Speaker 3: diminished capacities, diminished mental capacities at the time of the

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Speaker 3: time of the murders and even during the trial. And

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Speaker 3: we kind of, I hate to say it, but we

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Speaker 3: do see that kind of attempt at theater in court

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Speaker 3: cases in the US, you know, somebody is filing for

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Speaker 3: a personal injury and they make sure that they show

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Speaker 3: up like kitted out right, even if they might not

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Speaker 3: need all the cast or the neck braces, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: And then what's that thing. Like a lot of celebrities,

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Speaker 3: there was this halcyon era in the nineties and early

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Speaker 3: two thousands. Whenever a controversial celebrity or musician went to court,

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Speaker 3: they always for some reason that glass is on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because it makes you, like, what a little more

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Speaker 4: approachable seeming, Not sunglasses though, right, like glass No, no, yeah,

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Speaker 4: that would be the opposite of fact if it was

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Speaker 4: anyone wearing sunglasses inside immediately sus. But now if you're

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Speaker 4: wearing glasses, it makes oh, you're a human being, just

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Speaker 4: you know, you have flaws, right, your eyes are are perfect.

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Speaker 3: This guy couldn't have done it that much cocaine, like

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Speaker 3: did his.

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Speaker 4: Glasses almost did a spittack just sorry, well, let's talk.

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Speaker 2: His demeanor was described really strangely when he was there,

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Speaker 2: like at the assassination. So trial is one thing you're

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Speaker 2: talking about. I've seen that too. But when he was

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Speaker 2: there at scene, his calm demeanor was noted several times

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Speaker 2: just how he acted. He acted and did a thing

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Speaker 2: and then was calm. But they also described him as

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Speaker 2: being quote not in complete control of his mind while

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Speaker 2: at the scene, which what does that mean?

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Speaker 4: Well, the calm aspect combined with that really makes me

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Speaker 4: think of like someone's been activated, right, and then they're like,

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Speaker 4: you know, kind of non emotionally going through these pre

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Speaker 4: sat instructions, right, yeah, right.

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Speaker 3: The idea then that a series of commands had been

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Speaker 3: enacted and afterwards you're just done, the program has run. Right,

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Speaker 3: that's the implication here, But there is there's even more

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Speaker 3: to the story, which we'll get into. These are still

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Speaker 3: just the facts. The jury was not convinced by this

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Speaker 3: argument for diminished capacity. There are long standing questions about

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Speaker 3: whether defense dropped the ball in some way and be

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Speaker 3: that as it made. Sirhan was convicted on April seventeenth,

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine. He was sentenced to death in the

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Speaker 3: gas chamber three years later. This sentence, like all of

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Speaker 3: the death sentences in California, is commuted to life in prison,

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Speaker 3: and that's due to a Supreme Court ruling People versus Anderson,

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Speaker 3: which outlawed the death penalty in that state. So that

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Speaker 3: was a blanket change. It's very important to note he

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Speaker 3: was not singled out and getting his sentence commuted. The

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Speaker 3: way that the way that George Bush did for those

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Speaker 3: serial killers in Texas or for that one serial killer.

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Speaker 3: But there's another strange aspect to the story that we

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Speaker 3: have to give you right before we get to the

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Speaker 3: ad break. It's one that remained consistent for quite some time.

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Speaker 3: For decades, Sirhan. Sirhan has claimed he has little to

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Speaker 3: no memory of the assassination at all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the reason why we're talking about this is

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Speaker 2: because we talked about that drug and like what it

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Speaker 2: would do in the moment, you could lose your memory.

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Speaker 2: So I say we dive in to any of the

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Speaker 2: possible conspiracy theories surrounding this thing and just go through

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Speaker 2: each one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll get to it after a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. How does that old saying go?

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Speaker 3: Every prison is full of innocent men, depending on who

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Speaker 3: you ask. Sirhan's case is different because there is never

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Speaker 3: really a question about whether he was in the room,

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Speaker 3: whether he attacked RFK. Well, just say whether he attacked

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Speaker 3: our FK. There's no question about that. Absolutely happened, multiple witnesses,

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Speaker 3: ballistics evidence, he had a gun, he fired the gun,

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Speaker 3: he admitted that, and earlier he had written, or he

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Speaker 3: appears to have written, a manifesto calling for Kennedy's death.

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Speaker 3: It's chock full of vitriolic language condemning Kennedy. It is

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Speaker 3: clear and inarguable that he did not particularly care for RFK.

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Speaker 3: But again, the world is full of people who don't

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Speaker 3: like each other, and most of them never become assassins, right,

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Speaker 3: most of them are just like it's Greg.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think it creates a problem for anyone

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Speaker 2: who comes after to look at this thing, because if

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Speaker 2: you've got an individual who has a depresentment of someone,

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Speaker 2: then they could be used as a very helpful We'll

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Speaker 2: use the phrase that Rob Reiner used when we talk

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Speaker 2: to him, patsy. That is the word that Lee Harvey

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Speaker 2: Oswald used to describe himself in his situation. And if

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Speaker 2: you've got somebody like Sirian Cyerhan who has a hatred

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Speaker 2: or maybe even a psychological thing going on where he's

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Speaker 2: writing down RFK must die in his notebook, if he

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Speaker 2: has a gun and he's on premise, you know, for

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Speaker 2: the place where let's say you're a group that's going

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Speaker 2: to kill RFK, it would be a fall guy. It

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Speaker 2: would be a pretty easy fall guy. But he did,

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Speaker 2: according to multiple witnesses, he shot that gun see your

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Speaker 2: hands here, and shot the gun that he had at RFK,

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Speaker 2: hitting him. So it's a I don't know, but.

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Speaker 3: Hitting is not necessarily not every gun shot is fatal.

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Speaker 3: There you go, and we're going to learn some more

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Speaker 3: specifics that that are troubling. Okay, So an interrelated couple

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Speaker 3: of theories here, double dragon kind of theory set involves

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Speaker 3: the idea of orchestrations by the CIA or CIA associates

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Speaker 3: and a second gunman. Again, there's a lot in common

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Speaker 3: with the allegation surrounding the JFK assassination. Just a few

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Speaker 3: years prior. There was a twenty eighteen interview with Washington Post.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the sources we're going to be talking

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Speaker 3: about are coming kind of recently because there is a

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Speaker 3: cyclical media interest in the Sirhan case whenever he comes

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Speaker 3: up for parole. So Robert F. Kennedy Junior, a somewhat

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Speaker 3: controversial political figure today, talks to the Washington Post in

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Speaker 3: twenty eighteen and says, you know, I traveled out to

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Speaker 3: California and I met Sirhan Sirhan where he is incarcerated,

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Speaker 3: and I talked with him for a long time, and

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Speaker 3: I left believing what Sirhan told me that he himself

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Speaker 3: did not kill my father and that a second gunman

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Speaker 3: was involved. And then RFK Junior's sister, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend,

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Speaker 3: herself a politician, would later say that her brother made

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Speaker 3: a compelling case. She talked to him about his conversation

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Speaker 3: with Sirhan, and they both called for the investigation to

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Speaker 3: be reopened. They also were pretty their credit. Take it

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Speaker 3: as you will. RFK Junior said, I don't think that

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Speaker 3: my opinion will really change anything, but I, as his son,

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Speaker 3: I think Sirahn should be out of prison or we

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Speaker 3: should at least look into this again.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it weird? Guys? Isn't it weird that Martin Luther

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Speaker 2: King Junior's son did the exact same thing, came forward,

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Speaker 2: talked to his father's alleged assassin, was convinced by a

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Speaker 2: bunch of research and witnesses and other evidence that was

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Speaker 2: coming forward that this person wasn't the killer of his father,

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Speaker 2: and tried to get him out of prison like that happened.

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Speaker 2: These are two assassinations that occurred in nineteen sixty eight

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Speaker 2: and they both have sons. Both men who were killed

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Speaker 2: have sons that were convinced that the person who was

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Speaker 2: in jail didn't kill their father.

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Speaker 3: And now that's not the same thing as conclusively proving

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Speaker 3: in a sense, but it is powerful.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it makes people take notice. You know. Those are

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Speaker 4: usually the people that are like, yes, justice has been done,

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Speaker 4: you know, I feel vindicated, or my father's death has

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Speaker 4: been vindicated, as opposed to the exact opposite, which certainly

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Speaker 4: makes people take a little bit of pause.

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Speaker 3: Right, agreed. And we know that there has been extensive

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Speaker 3: research into this because a lot of people, again weren't

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Speaker 3: satisfied with the legal proceedings nor the government's conclusions. One

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Speaker 3: book I want to give a big shout out to

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Speaker 3: is A Lie Too Big to Fail, which you can

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Speaker 3: read for free on archive dot org right now by

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Speaker 3: an author named Lisa Peas Pea se and this author

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Speaker 3: argues that the real mastermind of the assassination was not

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Speaker 3: sir Han Sirhat, not a politically motivated lone wolf act,

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Speaker 3: but instead a CIA fixer named Robert Mayhew. Have we

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Speaker 3: heard we were talking about Mayhew a little bit off air.

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Speaker 3: Have you guys heard about him? Dug into his story.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen Mission Impossible?

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Speaker 4: Of course, the new one on the plane recently and

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Speaker 4: it was quite good.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about the new one, but allegedly the

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Speaker 3: Mission Impossible idea was based on his life in part.

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Speaker 3: What would a movie series based on our lives be like?

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it would be as exciting as

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Speaker 3: Mission Impossible.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we got time, we can write some more storylines.

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Speaker 3: Geez, yeah, I gotta. It'll just be a cavalcated Casey

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Speaker 3: is here. But Mayhew is fascinating because he has never

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Speaker 3: been officially linked to the assassination. And the other CIA folks,

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Speaker 3: which I'm sure we'll get to that we're in the

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Speaker 3: area or for some reason, maybe operating, maybe just there,

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Speaker 3: they have not been linked to the assassination. But may

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Speaker 3: You in particular, has one a heck of a CV or,

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Speaker 3: since we're talking about prison, he's got a hell of

434
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 3: a jacket. He was an ex FBI agent and the

435
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 3: CIA worked with him through his own private company, and

436
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 3: they asked him job to handle jobs that it wanted

437
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 3: to keep at an arm's length, it wanted at a

438
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 3: remove you know.

439
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: Wait a second, Yeah, Mayhew is one of the other

440
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: guys that Rob Reiner in his show Who Killed JFK

441
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 2: talks about with the the the anti Castro group.

442
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he Mayhew is There really were cases where

443
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 3: someone would come to Mayhew under shady circumstances like this

444
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 3: is your mission, should you choose to accept it. He'd

445
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 3: lined up sex workers for Forton presidents, and he was

446
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 3: the connection between the CIA and the MOB in at

447
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 3: least one of the plans to kill Castro. He definitely,

448
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: he definitely did this stuff. I want to shout out

449
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 3: Chicago mag They have a great two thousand and seven

450
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: right up on this by Brian Smith that talks about

451
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 3: Mayhew's involvement.

452
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 2: Geez man.

453
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: So again, if you're looking for conspiracy, this guy is

454
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 3: perfect casting because he actively did conspire to do some

455
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 3: messed up stuff.

456
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and he's not the only JM wave associated

457
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 2: guy that was there at the Ambassador Hotel on the

458
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: day of the assassination, and we'll get into that. But

459
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: this is this is nuts.

460
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 4: Yeah.

461
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 3: His For more than a decade and a half, Mayhew

462
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: and his company they Mitch out of Washington, they were

463
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 3: on a monthly retainer with the CIA, and CIA records

464
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: would later confirm this. So we don't have a direct

465
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 3: connection with Mayhew and Sirhan, but you can see why

466
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 3: so many authors and researchers they Paul us at this part. Oh,

467
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 3: he also worked with Howard Hughes, and he would be

468
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 3: like the fixer for the CIA and Howard Hughes, because

469
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 3: Howard Hughes would fund CIA operations.

470
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: Every so often just for fundzies.

471
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you get the what do you get

472
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: the company that has everything, you know, lots of tissue boxes.

473
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: There we go, right, Oh geez? He also okay, so

474
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: p says Mayhew. Given his involvement in the murcurer side

475
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 3: of the trade, he would have had access to CIA

476
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: experiments and hypnosism mind control. He would have been read

477
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 3: on to things like Midnight Climax mk ultr. Everybody check

478
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 3: out Midnight Climax, which is hosted by our own Noel Brown. Yeah,

479
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 3: hell of a story.

480
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: And mk Ultra ran from nineteen fifty three to seventy three,

481
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: so we're in the tail end of mk ultra here.

482
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 3: So they had lessons learned, right, They at least knew

483
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 3: what didn't work, and they also officially ended in seventy three.

484
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 3: So yeah, I know that sounds snarky, but officially ended

485
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: whatever take it as will.

486
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: They got the Internet, Yeah, they.

487
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 3: Got the Internet, don't They don't need the LSD anymore. So.

488
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 3: This author reasons that his knowledge of this and his

489
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 3: previous involvement is deep connections would have allowed Mayhew and

490
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 3: his crew to frame Sirran Sirhan as a patsy for

491
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 3: the death of Robert Kennedy while having another gunman, like

492
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 3: a professional operator, fire the fatal shots.

493
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: Like another agent that we already mentioned once in this show.

494
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 2: We'll keep going.

495
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, and again, none of the book is really compelling.

496
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 3: If you like this kind of stuff, it's a great read. Again,

497
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 3: it's free online, the author. The author also has to

498
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: point out that none of this was ever proven in court.

499
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: It's not been acknowledged by the US government. Parts of

500
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 3: the inconsistencies have been acknowledged. The book came out in

501
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, and the author spent twenty five years writing this.

502
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: But is also, to be very clear, is not the

503
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 3: first person raising these allegations. I don't know Robert Mayhew, though,

504
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 3: if you were going to cast someone for this conspiracy,

505
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: he's great. He's one of the best picks even though

506
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 3: I don't know, but he wasn't there. It wasn't he

507
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 3: was not physically there, right, because he's a professional. Why

508
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: would he be.

509
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: Should you want to? Can we go to the johann

510
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: Edes thing, the connection?

511
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 4: Yeah?

512
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, tell us about Johann Edes.

513
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: Okay, So a person that again Rob Reiner mentioned to

514
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: us and then was mentioned extensively in his show Who

515
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: Killed JFK mentions this guy, George Joannedes, who was quote

516
00:31:54,320 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: chief of psychological warfare operations and worked extensively with jam Wave,

517
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: which was the CIA's Miami base for this whole secret

518
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 2: war they had with Castro, right with.

519
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 3: The producers of things like The Bay of Pigs.

520
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: Yes, and it has been known now that Joe and

521
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: Edes was at the Ambassador Hotel on the day of

522
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 2: the assassination. Despite Senator Kennedy or Robert Kennedy's distaste for

523
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: CIA activities and his unwillingness to be protected by a

524
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 2: lot of those official you know, bodyguard are facilitating security

525
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: systems which are like, you know, if you're operating as

526
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: a very high level person, it would be secret service,

527
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: but secret service wasn't available to him at the time.

528
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: It then would have probably been the FBI, and he

529
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: had an ex FBI agent with him, but he didn't

530
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: have any official acting FBI agents with him. And just

531
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: knowing that this guy Joann Edes was there along with

532
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: a couple other people from that same company, same crew,

533
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: it calls into question. I don't know it. For me,

534
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: it's like it's enough to need to be tracked down,

535
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: like we need to know exactly what Joan Edi was

536
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: doing there and where he was and all that other stuff,

537
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: but we just don't have the full details.

538
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: Maybe there's a totally innocuous reason, you know what I mean? Maybe, yeah,

539
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 3: maybe there is. The point raising is that we don't know.

540
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: And until until we know what that reason is, until

541
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 3: it can be proven to be innocuous, then yeah, you

542
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 3: have to put it again in this weird Vin diagram

543
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 3: of stuff that doesn't prove something. But it doesn't feel right,

544
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: you know, there's something dissonant about it. I don't know.

545
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: They also twenty ten, Sirhun's lawyers argue, what's that what

546
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: was once treated like a wing nut idea? Sirhnen's own

547
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 3: lawyers in court say, look, the CIA hypnotiz Siirrahan Sirahat.

548
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 3: They made him an involuntary participant in the assassination. The

549
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 3: implication there is crazy, first off, because these are professional

550
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 3: attorneys saying this in court, but secondly because the implication

551
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 3: is like, why him though? Why him? If there seems

552
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 3: to be this preponderance of evidence in the weeks leading

553
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: up to it, or indeed the year's leading up to it,

554
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: Why him?

555
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 4: Why there?

556
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 3: Right? Did they identify someone struggling with mental issues who

557
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 3: already had a track record of threats against STARRFK? Did

558
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: they make those threats up? Did they put that did

559
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 3: they plant that diary? I don't know.

560
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 4: I mean, it feels like the kind of you know,

561
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 4: candidate for a patsy or a fall guy that you

562
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 4: see in other conspiracies as well, you know, whether it

563
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 4: be pinning, you know, a murder for higher scheme on

564
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 4: somebody who was sort of like a low hanging fruit

565
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 4: kind of potential, like maybe low level drug runner or something,

566
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 4: you know, who could fit the bill, but definitely didn't

567
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 4: have the kind of motivation that maybe it would be

568
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 4: made out to seem.

569
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: Cause I think we maybe have talked about this in

570
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: the past, but the route through the kitchen was not

571
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: the planned way to go to exite from the podium

572
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: where he was just speaking.

573
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 3: It was a last minute switch.

574
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was just told that by one of

575
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 2: those athletes that was acting as a security team. I

576
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 2: don't know. There's something about about changing a walking route

577
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: like last minute that for me, compromises RFK security in

578
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: that moment, which means if you were aware that that

579
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: was going to happen, or if you caused that route

580
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: change to happen, you could have somebody planted there and

581
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 2: it I don't know, there's something to that that feels

582
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: so important to me.

583
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 3: There's also a counterpoint. There's another side to that point,

584
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 3: which is that it's not uncommon for those last minute

585
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 3: switches to occur. If you feel like your established route,

586
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 3: like if you've already signaled that and messaged that out

587
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 3: and you're worried about possible danger or shenanigans, then there

588
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 3: are completely good and smart reasons to change the path

589
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 3: at the last minute to keep them guessing, which is

590
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 3: sort of why you don't see I mean, you see

591
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 3: it all the time with VIPs, not even necessarily heads

592
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: of state, but you can see it with celebrities, right,

593
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 3: especially if they have ardent stalkery fans.

594
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: I think you're right if they made it public, right,

595
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: or if you made it even public to like staff

596
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: at the hotel rather than just your internal security staff.

597
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 3: Someone found out, right. It could be as simple as sliding,

598
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 3: you know, sliding one hundred to someone at the front

599
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 3: desk who happens to know the established route, or you know,

600
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 3: a place like the Ambassador Hotel also is home to VIPs,

601
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 3: and so in these fancy hotels there are often and

602
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 3: if you go to the right hotel, folks, trust me,

603
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 3: there are protocols in place, and you can see those protocols,

604
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 3: but they lose they lose value with every new person

605
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 3: that is aware of them.

606
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 4: Well, because they're unspoken and like, you don't wanna, you

607
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 4: don't want to overplay that hand, and it kind of

608
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 4: dilutes the whole, you know, kind of secrecy of it all.

609
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 4: And then I guess it hasn't requires a shift in.

610
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 3: Protocol, right, Yeah, And the thing we're quarreling with here

611
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 3: is it's again it's another great unknown. Where did they

612
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,439
Speaker 3: decide proactively to change the route on their own due

613
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 3: to concerns or were they pushed into that? Were they

614
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 3: decision treed into walking through the kitchen and perhaps even

615
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 3: thinking that was their own idea. All of these are possible,

616
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 3: none of them are proven. Uh, and it's tantalizing, but

617
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 3: it's torturous. I mean, look, none of all of this,

618
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 3: which is bothersome, none of it is. Forgive us for

619
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: saying so smoking gun level evidence of anything. But there's

620
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 3: a lot of unusual stuff already. We haven't even gotten

621
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: to even weirder things yet. No, So these earlier authors,

622
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 3: these researchers conclude that they seem to conclude that Siahan

623
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 3: did not himself kill Kennedy, or if he was the killer,

624
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: that he was a lot more like a bullet than

625
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: an assassin. Right he would The argument is he was

626
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 3: made to do so. And they also say that the

627
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 3: LAPD and the district attorney at the time were either

628
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 3: crooked or incompetent, and maybe his defense lawyers were crooked

629
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 3: or incompetent because they didn't challenge any of the physical evidence,

630
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: and the physical evidence marri way falls not as ironclad

631
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 3: as perhaps prosecution made it out to be. Is that

632
00:38:58,760 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: fair to say that's not?

633
00:38:59,800 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 2: Like?

634
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 4: Take there, I think it is.

635
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 2: I think they're just weird. There's other weird stuff that

636
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 2: was going on. Most of it came out after the trial.

637
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 3: Way after the trial, Yeah, because they wanted to shut

638
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: this down. The US at the time was already already

639
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 3: had some threats to the status quo as the elite

640
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 3: saw it, right, widespread anti war activism, civil rights movement,

641
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 3: some secessionist movements like American Indian Movement, all this kind

642
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 3: of stuff. So it is in their interest to try

643
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 3: to nip something in the bud, make the story look right,

644
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 3: and move on as quickly as possible. The problem is

645
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 3: the stuff that comes out afterwards, like the autopsy findings,

646
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 3: right that Kennedy must have been shot at close range,

647
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 3: that somehow got shot in the back of the head. Yeah,

648
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 3: you don't have to be a gun nut to know that.

649
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 3: If you're shooting at someone from the front, it's really

650
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 3: tough to hit them in the back of.

651
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 2: That well, unless they turn their head right as being

652
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 2: fired towards them.

653
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 3: And to the left.

654
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, as a magic bullet.

655
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: You know.

656
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: Well, well no, but really, like if you're in a

657
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: situation and somebody in front of you or to your

658
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: side is firing a gun at you, a little twenty

659
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: two let you say a little Iiver Johnson twenty two revolver,

660
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 2: but it's not. It would sound loud and it would

661
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 2: be scary. You would probably turn away right, which then

662
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: a bullet could hit the back of your head. That's

663
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 2: what was argued.

664
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: Or if somebody says watch out, depending on where they're

665
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 3: standing and turned to look at them, Yep, possible, possible.

666
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 3: Yet we also have to take tough. But the distance

667
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 3: is what we have to think about. Don't forget about

668
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 3: the distance because numerous eyewitnesses at the shooting, and I wouldn't. Yes,

669
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 3: we get eyewitness reports are sticky infallible, but numerous people

670
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 3: confirmed multiple times over time that Sir Had was not

671
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 3: close enough to fire at close range and that he

672
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 3: only got two shots out in Kennedy's direction before he

673
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 3: is getting held and tackled to the ground. And as

674
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 3: he's going down, he's just shooting wildly. He's spraying the

675
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 3: rest of the rest of his bullets, just out, go

676
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 3: with God style, And that's what tackled and dealt with basically, right,

677
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 3: I can explain. And his pistol had eight shots in it.

678
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 3: The earlier said revolvers that might think you had that

679
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 3: might sound like it had six shots. Right, No, this

680
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 3: is a twenty two caliber with eight bullets in it,

681
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 3: which will be important later. But I don't know, do

682
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: you guys? Right now, before you get any weirder stuff,

683
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 3: is it possible that Sirhan Sirhan could have been manipulated

684
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 3: by someone? Did he act on his own?

685
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, but before we see that, Ben, there was

686
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 2: somebody with a gun standing right behind RFK when this

687
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 2: went down.

688
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, we'll get to him as well, Fane.

689
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,760
Speaker 2: Right, there's somebody that has a gun who is holding

690
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 2: Rfk's arm as he's walking through the kitchen. I don't know, Okay,

691
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 2: whatever is.

692
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 4: This the theory of like Sirhan Sirhan as distraction as

693
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,919
Speaker 4: diversion while somebody else does the deed.

694
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: That's the theory, that's the possibility.

695
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 3: Let's go into the drugs too on the way to that,

696
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 3: because that's hypnosis and drugs. That's where That's what prompted

697
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 3: us to kind of re explore this. We talked about

698
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 3: a Manchurion candidate before over the years. Right, it comes

699
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 3: from a fiction novel. Right, it's not like a super

700
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 3: secret real Soviet program, but in this novel, a son

701
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 3: of a political dynasty is brainwashed into becoming an assassin

702
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 3: for the community.

703
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 4: And this is not the same as say a sleeper agent,

704
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 4: where I think a lot of people kind of misconstrue

705
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 4: those concepts where someone is deployed as like a basic

706
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 4: you know, civilian, and then you know, whenever they're given

707
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 4: a particular order or code word or whatever, they are

708
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 4: activated and then they carry out these instructions. This is

709
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 4: much deeper. This is someone who is given a code

710
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 4: word that all of a sudden switches their brain and

711
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 4: makes them into a killing automaton of sorts.

712
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 3: Right.

713
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, and let's jump into that guys. After another

714
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 2: word from our sponsor, we'll be right back.

715
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 3: We've returned. Yeah, that's an important differentiation, NOL. So if

716
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 3: you have seen shows like The Americans, which is loosely

717
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 3: based on real events, then you'll know that sleeper agents

718
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 3: can be a real thing and exist as to all

719
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 3: intents and purposes. They exist as citizens of the country

720
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 3: in which they're operating until they get their signal, their directives,

721
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 3: et cetera. The idea of a Manchurian candidate are argues

722
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 3: that subconscious demands have been embedded into your psyche. You

723
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 3: are a sleeper agent, but you are not aware you

724
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,959
Speaker 3: are a sleeper agent until you get that code word.

725
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 3: You know, someone runs up to you, shows you a

726
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 3: picture of a white elephant and says shah mahlamading dong

727
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 3: and then you're like, hello, en up nukes.

728
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 4: And presumably the idea here in theory is that this

729
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 4: is the deepest level of deniability for the handlers of

730
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 4: this individual or for the people that are actually using

731
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 4: them as a weapon, because I mean, even with the

732
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 4: sleeper agent, you could get information out of that person,

733
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 4: you could potentially figure out who they are answering to,

734
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 4: whereas with a Manchurian candidate, they don't know who they're

735
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 4: answering to. There they literally you can't get anything out

736
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 4: of them because it's not there for them to give and.

737
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 3: It might not Yeah, that's a great point. Might not

738
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 3: also go to the extreme of murder. The idea or

739
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 3: this theory says that maybe you could have someone who

740
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,760
Speaker 3: is induced to give over sensitive information right just because

741
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,479
Speaker 3: they're you know, a top level defense engineer. But there's also,

742
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 3: as we gain it through, there's something else interesting about

743
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 3: the idea of deniability. So if there's a Manchurian candidate,

744
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 3: and it's operating purely on trigger words, right, casting a

745
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 3: spell for lack of a better word, or like a

746
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 3: visual series of visual accues, or even old factory stuff.

747
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 3: You as the person orchestrating this Shenanigan, you don't have

748
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 3: to present them the trigger yourself. You can just pay

749
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 3: somebody without who has no idea what's going on. You

750
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: can pay them and say, look, I gave fifty bucks.

751
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 3: You see that guy over there, or you know two

752
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 3: days there's going to be this guy over here. I

753
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 3: want you to hold up this picture of what's an

754
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 3: unusual animal, a zebra. I want you to hold up

755
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 3: this picture of a zebra I don't know, and then

756
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 3: and then I want you to slowly turn it upside

757
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 3: down and counterclockwise. Yeah.

758
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 2: Or you plant somebody wearing a polka dot dress that

759
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: it walks by and says something, or just you know,

760
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: makes a gesture that is the trigger.

761
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 3: Right exactly. There are a million ways you could do

762
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 3: it in this theory. There's never been a proving case

763
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 3: of a man sure an actual Mentorian candidate in the

764
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 3: real world, and that's because the problem goes to timeframe right.

765
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 3: A lot of this goes to distance and time. So

766
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 3: you can hypnotize someone and can give them trance state suggestions,

767
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 3: but hypnosis is not going to make people do stuff

768
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 3: they would not ordinarily do.

769
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 4: Well, and it's not going to necessary. Again, we don't know.

770
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 4: There's a lot we don't know about how hypnosis works,

771
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 4: and you know, certain people are more susceptible to it

772
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 4: than others. But it does kind of beg credulity to

773
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,919
Speaker 4: think that you could implant something that would just lay

774
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 4: dormant indefinitely, right, I don't know it.

775
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 3: It's a little bit of hard to swallow for me

776
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 3: without continual maintenance, Without continual maintenance.

777
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 2: Even if you're dosing someone with LSD, right with an

778
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 2: MK ultra style experiment, if that person is in an

779
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 2: LSD and you know, affected state, and you're telling them

780
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: things like RFK must die, you're repeating it over and

781
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 2: over and over and over and over in that state

782
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 2: while you're watching maybe film of the man's face and

783
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 2: death and all this stuff. These the conjured imaginations that

784
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: appear in fictional stories. Right, Even if you're doing that,

785
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 2: how does the human being not recall any of those

786
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 2: images or moments or just the very fine memories that

787
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 2: could occur.

788
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 3: There, Right, How can you embed it deeply enough into

789
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 3: the psychic soil or the neurologicals.

790
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 4: Without having other byproducts that people would remember? You think

791
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 4: you'd remember getting strapped to a chair with lidlocks on

792
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 4: and being forced to watch these films? Well, you know,

793
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 4: I mean you can't. We don't have the selectivity in

794
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 4: how we can mess with people's memories. It's kind of

795
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 4: to pick and choose.

796
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: I don't think.

797
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 3: Well yet, we're getting there.

798
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 2: We stumbled on something just randomly in our last conversation

799
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,320
Speaker 2: that that's why we're doing this, right.

800
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I like that we're pointing this out to

801
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 3: fiction versus fact. So another example of this is chloroform

802
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 3: is often portrayed as this sort of super spy knockout things, right, yeah,

803
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 3: But the reality is you have to keep applying chloroform

804
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 3: to keep someone knocked out if you Yeah, and.

805
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 2: You can kill someone pretty easily.

806
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 4: You could kill them.

807
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,919
Speaker 3: Pretty easily too, So if you take the rag off

808
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 3: of their face, they're going to get up and they're

809
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 3: gonna be pissed at you, So be very very you

810
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 3: know what. Actually, let's I hope this is not a

811
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 3: hot take. Your life is your own, but try to

812
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,959
Speaker 3: avoid situations where you feel like you have to chloroform people.

813
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, at the very least get some sort of dart

814
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 4: you know, gun situation with like a much longer acting

815
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 4: sedative sedatives.

816
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 2: There was a recent story, you guys, this guy there's

817
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: an Elvis impersonator that was allegedly killed by someone via

818
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 2: chloroform during a sexual encounter. You can read about it

819
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: in the New York Post search for New York Elvis

820
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 2: impersonator allegedly killed after being chloroformed during sexual encounter.

821
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 4: Are people using chloroform like poppers like aminyl nitrate.

822
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 2: Or some people?

823
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 3: Get down man, they'd do it.

824
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, what you do in the bedroom is your home,

825
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 4: but be careful, don't go too heavy on the chloroform, guys.

826
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 3: Right, Consent and safety are keys. And there's okay, So

827
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 3: there's the other question. All right, we know the problem

828
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 3: with the Manchurian candidate deployment in the real world is

829
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 3: the time frame issue. But what if you could get

830
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: around the time frame entirely. What if you just drugged

831
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 3: the right person on the scene directly before you needed

832
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 3: an action, and then you set them loose disturbingly enough.

833
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 3: And this is what Matt was alluding to. We know

834
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 3: with certitude that certain drugs can and do that. The

835
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 3: torah aka Jims and Wei is being deployed by criminals

836
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 3: throughout South America to do this very thing, as we

837
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 3: record right now, as you hear.

838
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 2: This scopelamine, it's the thing that what was a devil's breath,

839
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 2: it's the thing that's what it can get blown in

840
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 2: your face. Then you are immediately a compliant automaton, essentially

841
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: with no memory of what's happening. Nogamed.

842
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 3: It could be put on the tip of a cigarette.

843
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 3: It doesn't take much.

844
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could literally you could literally make a suggestion.

845
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 2: You blow the thing. You make a suggestion. It's like

846
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 2: shoot RFK right, somebody even hands you a pistol, or

847
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: maybe you've already got a pistol. Uh. It's just it's

848
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 2: crazy that it I think it may actually work.

849
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 4: It would.

850
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 3: We know that it's worked in criminal cases. We know

851
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 3: that the effects are immedia. It's tasteless, it's odorless, it's

852
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 3: it's it's tough to find it if you're an investigator

853
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 3: and you don't know what you're looking for the results

854
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 3: of being poisoned. This way, we know that people will

855
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 3: be tremendously compliant. They will go to their ATM and

856
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 3: empty it out. They'll come to you hours later with

857
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 3: vague memories of helping criminals move the furniture from their houses.

858
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 3: This is nasty stuff. Check out our Drugs as Weapons episode,

859
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 3: and the lead toxicologist or the lead world expert I

860
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 3: should say on this, they agree that, unlike hypnosis, exposure

861
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 3: to these drugs can make you do stuff that you

862
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 3: would not ordinarily do. So this is if Sara Han

863
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 3: was under the influence of something like that, he would

864
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 3: have also been extremely compliant to suggestion throughout the interrogation process,

865
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 3: so long as it happened shortly after ingestion. And this

866
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 3: stuff can last like twenty four hours more.

867
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: Dude. And they said he was calm, right, but he

868
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 2: wasn't of his own mind. He was like, like, I'm

869
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: just imagining. I have not seen anyone under the effects

870
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 2: of detura scope lamine or whatever, but I imagine someone

871
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 2: who is just compliant and looks normal. Maybe you might

872
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 2: think that he would be he would appear more intoxicated

873
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 2: because he was drinking. Tom Collins he had like several

874
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 2: Tom Collins drinks while he was there at the Ambassador Hotel,

875
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 2: at least according to the official story, which you could

876
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 2: slip something in his drink while he's there at the bar.

877
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 3: You could slip something in his drink and have a

878
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 3: brief conversation. Oh my, coming right. I mean, there are

879
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 3: a thousand ways to get to people with this stuff.

880
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 3: Be safe, keep an eye on your drinks and joan edies.

881
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 2: Again, the chief of psychological warfare operations was hanging out

882
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 2: at the hotel.

883
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 3: For possibly innocuous reasons.

884
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that we have to say.

885
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's also this other thing. I mean, you do

886
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 3: have to note the next part. The reason that the

887
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 3: check secretly stopped using scopolamine, the reason that so like

888
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 3: even the Nazis gave it up, is because it was

889
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 3: terrible as a truth seraha was terrible for suggestions and confessions,

890
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 3: because people under the influence of that will confess to

891
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 3: anything their interrogator suggests, even if it's impossible, like hey,

892
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 3: do you have a tail, And they're like, oh, yeah,

893
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 3: I haven't checked recently, but I probably do, you know

894
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 3: what I mean? Like that to that level of absurdity,

895
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 3: because they also do anything that suggested up to it,

896
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:46,919
Speaker 3: in including killing someone. If that is Sirahan Sarahan had

897
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 3: actual bullets in his gun and not blanks. Paul, can

898
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 3: we get a record scratch?

899
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 2: I haven't heard this one.

900
00:53:55,200 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 3: So what if Sirrahan Sarahan was handed like going back

901
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,320
Speaker 3: to the distraction second gunman theory, what if it was

902
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 3: handed a twenty two caliber pistol but it had blanks

903
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 3: in it and he was just functioning as a distraction.

904
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 4: This is yeah, Anna Patsy, right, I mean, yeah, like

905
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 4: a fall guy.

906
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 2: But wait, what because there I guess it depends on

907
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 2: what you what evidence you believe. But in the ballistics

908
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 2: there were twenty two rounds found, like embedded into the

909
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 2: walls in like a door frame.

910
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 4: Wait, but from other people firing right at Sirhan.

911
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 2: Now the trajectory, the trajectory from some of them were

912
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 2: Sirhan firing but he only had eight.

913
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and people would also we'll get to people also

914
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 3: claim they are thirteen gunshots later. But anyway, so the

915
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 3: in a lie too big to fail. Peace quotes eyewitnesses

916
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 3: saying they saw I'm not sure how I feel about

917
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 3: the shredded paper fluttering through the air as Siahan was firing,

918
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 3: and that was indicative of ca scenes containing explosive charges,

919
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 3: but no actual bullets. I don't know. Again, eyewitnesses are imperfect,

920
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 3: and to remember shredded paper through the air. While that

921
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 3: may be true, that might not have anything to do

922
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 3: with the gunshots.

923
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 4: Pretty circumstantial, right, Yeah.

924
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 3: That's a good word for it. And then there were

925
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 3: other people who were strapped at this time. There were

926
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 3: armed men around behind Kennedy. One of the guys confirmed

927
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 3: to be present and armed was a security guard named

928
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 3: Fane Caesar aka Jeene Caesar, and he had previously done

929
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 3: some work in Los Angeles with a guy named Robert May.

930
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 3: It was not the kind of work that gives you

931
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 3: a four oh one.

932
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 2: K And you may also see his name written as

933
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 2: Eugene Fane Caesar, but he has been described as holding

934
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 2: on to Robert Kennedy's arm, kind of leading him through

935
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 2: the kitchen while he is armed. And then what did

936
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 2: we talk about the bullet back of the head situation.

937
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he actually talks with Caesar, spoke on record

938
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 3: to researchers about this, and there was one interview he

939
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 3: had with an author named Dan Muldia, and he said, quote,

940
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 3: there are dozens of articles that come out saying I

941
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 3: carried a second gun that possibly could have been the

942
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 3: person who shot Bobby Kennedy because and this Caesar speaking,

943
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 3: because the bullet entered the back of his head. However,

944
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 3: to be clear, Caesar is always denied any kind of implication.

945
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,240
Speaker 3: He passed away recently in the Philippines where he retired,

946
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 3: And there's nothing wrong with retiring abroad. I feel like

947
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 3: I made that sound like such a bread crumb, But

948
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,800
Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with retiring abroad. People go to Costa

949
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 3: Rica all the time or whatever. But if we bring

950
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 3: it all together, then the alternative narrative is something quite strange.

951
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 3: A world in which Sirhan Sirhan is also a victim

952
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 3: hypnotized or drug somehow compelled to appear to murder RFG,

953
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 3: while behind the scenes a shadowy cabal orchestrates the actual hit.

954
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 3: Not very straightforward. It's a little mouse trappy, isn't it. Uh?

955
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 2: The little Yeah. This is complicated as all heck, unless

956
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: there was again, like we talked about it in the past,

957
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 2: when you've got that uncertainty thing you everybody tries to

958
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 2: throw darts to be like, oh, man, well maybe that's it. Well,

959
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 2: maybe that's it. Maybe this is the connection. Maybe that's

960
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 2: the thing, and you'll will do it forever until we

961
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 2: get some certainty or some truth. If somebody comes out

962
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 2: and just says blatantly, hey, here's what's going on.

963
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 4: But do we have like a real reason why the

964
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 4: government would want to collude to assassinate Robert Kennedy? Is

965
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 4: it like finishing the job of what they supposedly were

966
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 4: doing when they colluded to assassinate J F. Kennedy? Are

967
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,439
Speaker 4: these these connected, like, well, where's the threat? I guess

968
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 4: I've never fully wrapped my head around that aspect of it.

969
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 3: The argument would be that factions of the government, most

970
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 3: notably factions in domestic and foreign intelligence agencies like the

971
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 3: CIA and the FBI, wanted to continue functioning without oversight

972
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 3: and saw JFK in particular and RFK as well as

973
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 3: threats to their operations. That's the idea that has not

974
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 3: been officially recognized in any court, but it's something I

975
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 3: think a slim majority of Americans still believe, at least

976
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 3: here in the here in the US you know where

977
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 3: you five. Most of the Americans anyway. I don't know either.

978
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 3: But I do have one question that isn't brought up

979
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 3: enough in the literature here. It's this, where was Bigfoot?

980
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 3: There's there's no documentary record of Bigfoot, has no alibi

981
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 3: for this.

982
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 4: Can he fire a gun?

983
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 3: Right?

984
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 5: I mean thick fingers of his I'm having fun with this,

985
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 5: but yeah, if you have, if you have proof of

986
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 5: bigfoots whereabouts nineteen sixty eight, tell us, because that'll also

987
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 5: prove that Bigfoot is real.

988
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 3: But it descends into this level of speculation. There's still

989
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 3: there is hard evidence of discrepancy. Sirahn's gun held only

990
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:35,479
Speaker 3: eight bullets. Someone else was firing, right. We just don't

991
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 3: know the context.

992
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 4: It does feel at the same level of weirdness as

993
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 4: what surrounded JFK's assassination. We know something fishy was going

994
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 4: on there, especially with now we've got this whole the

995
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 4: magic bullet theory kind of solved by that that CIA

996
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 4: agent who came out and said he found this other

997
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 4: bullet lodged, you know, in the in the seat and

998
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 4: didn't talk about it for years. That and of itself

999
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 4: is weird, but what a strange thing to have the

1000
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 4: literal relative of this highest profile assassination of a public figure,

1001
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 4: probably in the history of the world, with with the

1002
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 4: most questions around it, leading to equal numbers of questions

1003
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 4: and having equal amounts of suspicious details the.

1004
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 3: Court had to answer to. The court eventually had to

1005
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 3: respond to something they had originally dismissed as hogwash. They

1006
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 3: had to respond to the second shooter allegations. So Sirhan Sirhan,

1007
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 3: after rest, after trial, after conviction, makes multiple appeals, as

1008
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 3: many appeals as possible, and in one of the rejections

1009
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 3: of those appeals, a magistrate judge named Andrew J. Wistrich said,

1010
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 3: I don't love this, but the judge said, maybe there

1011
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 3: was a second shooter. It doesn't matter. Quote even if

1012
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 3: the second shooter's bullet was the one that killed Senator Kennedy,

1013
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 3: Siirhan would still be liable for murder as an aider

1014
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 3: and a better Yeah, convenient says like, remember that thing

1015
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 3: we said was a conspiracy. Well, even if it's true, whatever.

1016
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 2: Move on, guys, that's crazy.

1017
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 3: But they also note h the idea of a second

1018
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 3: gunman shooting Kennedy a close range with the same type

1019
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 3: of gun and same ammunition as sir Han also escaping

1020
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 3: a crowded room without notice in a room full of witnesses.

1021
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 3: Say it lacks any evidentiary support, But I don't know.

1022
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 3: I feel like in that kind of chaos, it's kind

1023
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 3: of easy to do. What irish goodbye?

1024
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 2: Like, just get the heck out of there?

1025
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 4: Ghost.

1026
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, if you're not you know, a prominent member

1027
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 3: of the thing, you know well.

1028
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 4: And what of the idea of whether or not sear

1029
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 4: Hand was actively colluding with another shooter and it was

1030
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 4: aware of his or her or their presence. That's another

1031
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 4: thing that's been dismissed as doesn't matter.

1032
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 3: Right yet, he said, and he again says now, And

1033
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 3: for some time he's maintained that his memory of the

1034
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 3: events is fuzzier, nonexistent in a way that perhaps coincidentally

1035
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 3: jibes with de Toro poisoning. Be quite honest with you,

1036
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 3: that does it? Again not proven, We don't know. But

1037
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 3: there are a lot of pieces here where you can.

1038
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 3: You can already see, folks, how easy it is to

1039
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 3: string that red thread along from point to point. Sirhan

1040
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 3: recently lost his seventeenth parole hearing on March first, twenty

1041
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 3: twenty three, and he got really close this time, but

1042
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 3: it was shut down, and as we record today it's

1043
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 3: April nineteenth, twenty twenty four. He is eighty years old.

1044
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 3: He is alive, like most people in their eighties, he

1045
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 3: is not in the best of health. To all official

1046
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 3: accounts and conclusion, he is served in life for a successful,

1047
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 3: high profile, politically motivated assassination.

1048
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, let's just note here that one of the reasons,

1049
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 2: at least one of the large reasons that his parole

1050
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 2: was denied for the seventeenth time back in March was

1051
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 2: because of the words of rfk's son, Christopher Kennedy. I

1052
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 2: just wanted to read just a couple of the things

1053
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 2: that he said, because I think it strikes at the

1054
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 2: heart of why, at least the Kennedy family parts of it,

1055
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,919
Speaker 2: want him to stay in prison forever. But it also

1056
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: points to I think a larger like a larger statement

1057
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 2: about conspiracy theories and why they form. I really like

1058
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 2: these words. These are the words of Christopher Kennedy speaking

1059
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 2: against the being granted parole siance here and being granted pearl.

1060
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 2: He says, quote, this is a man who has never

1061
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,439
Speaker 2: admitted to killing my father, never said he was sorry

1062
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 2: for having ended his life, he's refused truth, thereby forfeiting reconciliation.

1063
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 2: His repeated denial of his crimes have been devastating. His

1064
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 2: lack of remorse soul crushing. And this is the important

1065
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 2: part here. We don't want vengeance, we want justice. We

1066
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 2: want to offer forgiveness, but we need to see repentance.

1067
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 2: It's the oldest bargain in history. One side admits and

1068
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 2: the other side forgives. One side offers truth and the

1069
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 2: other side offers reconciliation. Basically saying that if Sirhan Syirhan

1070
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 2: came forward and said, yes, I killed your father and

1071
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 2: I'm terribly sorry that I did that. I can't believe

1072
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 2: I did that that kind of thing, then I guess

1073
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 2: Christopher Kennedy and others in his family would forgive him

1074
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 2: and say, Okay, this man needs pearled, but he hasn't

1075
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 2: done that. But if Sirhan Syirhan wasn't actually the person

1076
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 2: that killed Robert Kennedy, then how do you go about,

1077
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 2: you know, offering that it's just a sticky situation. And

1078
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 2: I do think that whole it goes back to the statement, Ben,

1079
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 2: what do you always say about when there's murkiness?

1080
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 3: In the absence of transparency, speculation thrives.

1081
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 2: I think it goes right back to that man.

1082
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know, Richard is agreeing with again, to

1083
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 3: be fair, the majority of the world, majority of public opinion,

1084
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 3: but to others, a persistent group of questions. Sarah and

1085
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 3: Sarad is one of the last pieces of a multi

1086
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 3: decade conspiracy, living evidence of something whoever they are, something

1087
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. And you know, we're

1088
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 3: Indie with a question here too. I think we came

1089
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 3: with some great recommendations if you want to read more,

1090
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 3: if you want to learn more about this specific instance,

1091
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 3: this period in time. There are some great podcasts out there.

1092
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 3: We can say it because we didn't make all of them,

1093
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 3: but there are some fantastic things out there, and we'd

1094
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 3: love to hear your thoughts, folks, especially if you were

1095
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 3: around when this occurred. If you happen to have any

1096
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 3: or involvement, or you have a different take, let us know.

1097
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 3: We try to be easy to find online.

1098
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 4: It's right. You can find us at the handle of

1099
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 4: Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist, on Facebook, where we have

1100
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 4: our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy. On YouTube,

1101
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 4: where we roll out new video content. Every week, George

1102
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 4: Washington continues his time travel adventures in Hollywood, and in

1103
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:26,479
Speaker 4: this week's installment, he discovers the Deadly Escalator. We also

1104
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 4: exist at that handle on x FKA, Twitter, on Instagram,

1105
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 4: and TikTok or Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1106
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 2: Hey, would you like to say something with your mouth?

1107
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 2: Call one eight three three STDWYTK. That's our voicemail system.

1108
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 2: When you call in, give yourself a cool nickname and

1109
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 2: let us know if we can use your name and

1110
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 2: message on the air. You've got three minutes again, see

1111
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 2: whatever you'd like. If you've got more to say it

1112
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 2: and can fit in that voicemail message, why not instead

1113
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 2: send us a good old fashioned email.

1114
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1115
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

1116
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1117
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.