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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Welcome back to a new season of the Happiness

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Speaker 1: Lab and happy twenty twenty six Happiness Lab listeners. There's

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Speaker 1: something so hopeful about the start of a new year.

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Speaker 1: For many of us, January feels like a clean slate,

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Speaker 1: a chance to start fresh as the healthier, happier person

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Speaker 1: we want to be. But if there's one thing we

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Speaker 1: know about human nature, it's that behavior change is hard.

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Speaker 1: We set goals, make resolutions, feel motivated to do things differently,

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Speaker 1: and then we slip back into exactly the same habits

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Speaker 1: we had the year before, the ones we know just

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Speaker 1: don't work. So the goal of this new season of

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Speaker 1: the Happiness Lab is to give us the psychological traction

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Speaker 1: we need to break out of all the ruts that

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Speaker 1: we've been stuck in for a while. Rather than give

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Speaker 1: you the usual New Year platitudes, we'll be exploring strategies

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Speaker 1: that research shows can actually help us get on stuck

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Speaker 1: and back in motion. Over the course of the next

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Speaker 1: few episodes, we'll hear science back tips for embracing the

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Speaker 1: kinds of changes that feel scary, for finding a sense

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Speaker 1: of purpose in the midst of exhaustion, and for feeling

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Speaker 1: less overwhelmed with the current state of the world. And

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Speaker 1: in this first episode in our Getting Unstuck in the

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Speaker 1: New Year's season, we'll tackle the challenge of unsticking our effort.

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Speaker 1: We'll explore how to use our time and energy a

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Speaker 1: bit more effectively, which is so important if we want

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Speaker 1: to feel less stuck in twenty twenty six, because, let's

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Speaker 1: face it, a lot of us are putting a lot

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Speaker 1: of energy into the wrong kinds of things. To better

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Speaker 1: understand just how much unwise effort can keep us trapped.

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Speaker 1: Today's guest, the psychologist doctor Diana Hill, invites you to

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Speaker 1: think of a bit of an animal analogy. Imagine, if

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Speaker 1: you will, an unfortunate little bird who has accidentally made

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Speaker 1: its way indoors.

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Speaker 2: And it does what birds do best, which is, I

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Speaker 2: think what humans do too, Like we want to get

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Speaker 2: out when we feel stuck, and we go out in

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Speaker 2: the predictable ways that maybe worked at some point to

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Speaker 2: get us unstuck.

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Speaker 1: For a panicked bird, that means flying as hard as

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Speaker 1: possible into the nearest bright window.

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Speaker 2: It's smart. He wants to go for that tree, right,

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Speaker 2: But what happens when that bird flies at a window.

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Speaker 2: We all know it's that painful experience of hitting its head.

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Speaker 1: And sadly that poor little bird might not hit its

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Speaker 1: head just once. It will probably continue smashing itself into

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Speaker 1: the glass over and over. Rather than pausing and rethinking

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Speaker 1: its path to the outside world, it just starts pushing

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Speaker 1: into the glass even harder, using more and more of

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Speaker 1: its energy to slam into the window until it winds

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Speaker 1: up exhausted or hurt or worse. Diana has worked with

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Speaker 1: lots of humans who are feeling stuck, and she says

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Speaker 1: they don't behave all that differently from a frantic bird, Like.

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Speaker 2: If I just fly harder at this relationship or work

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Speaker 2: harder in a work setting that's actually toxic for me,

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Speaker 2: maybe that will get me out. And that can lead

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Speaker 2: us to just feeling exhausted, right, It can lead us

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Speaker 2: to blaming ourselves. And it also can lead to another

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Speaker 2: pattern which some of us can get stuck in, which

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Speaker 2: is the very classic psychological problem of learned helplessness, where

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Speaker 2: we just say there's no way out, there's nothing I

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Speaker 2: can do here, there's no other possibility. I've tried everything,

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Speaker 2: you know as hard as I can sound familiar.

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Speaker 1: Well, not to worry, because Diana is here, to help

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Speaker 1: us get our energy back on track. In fact, she's

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Speaker 1: the author of a new book on just this topic.

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Speaker 1: It's called Wise Effort, How to Focus your genius energy

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Speaker 1: on what matters most.

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Speaker 2: So as a psychologist, I've been training in and involved

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Speaker 2: in this concept of psychological flexibility for a really long time.

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Speaker 2: And what that bird actually needs is not to fly

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Speaker 2: harder at the same thing. Maybe it could use a

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Speaker 2: little rest, little rest on that kitchen floor, but not

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Speaker 2: to you know, give up, but to use its energy

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Speaker 2: differently than that. Maybe look around, look in places that

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Speaker 2: you haven't looked before, try new things, and there may

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Speaker 2: be an open door. And that requires you to be

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Speaker 2: flexible in your attention, but then also flexible in your behavior.

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Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean you shouldn't fly, So you can

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Speaker 2: still be the bird that you are, but shift that

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Speaker 2: energy and attention to get out and to free yourself

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Speaker 2: from whatever place you're stuck in.

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Speaker 1: Diana is a clinical psychologist and an expert on getting

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Speaker 1: your energy unstuck, but she admits that she too has

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Speaker 1: been in situations where she was putting too much energy

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Speaker 1: into the wrong things.

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Speaker 2: Well, in twenty twenty one, I was on a podcast

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Speaker 2: that I had been working on for a number of years.

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Speaker 2: I put a lot of energy into it. On the outside,

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Speaker 2: it had close to two million downloads. And there's a

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Speaker 2: term in psychology that sunk cost fallacy. You know, we've

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Speaker 2: put so much time and energy and effort into it,

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Speaker 2: so therefore we keep doing it if it's not working

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Speaker 2: for us. And what I started noticing is that I

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Speaker 2: would have a panic attacks before i'd go on team meetings.

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Speaker 2: I started to just feel like my heart wasn't in

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Speaker 2: it anymore. I wanted more freedom, I wanted more flexibility,

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Speaker 2: I wanted more creativity. But I kept at it, and

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Speaker 2: I just kept on going harder at it and became

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Speaker 2: quite inflexible, to the point where I became unpleasant to

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Speaker 2: be around. I became more controlling. It was finally in

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Speaker 2: the letting go. It was turning around looking around, are

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Speaker 2: there other options here? That freed up my energy? And

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Speaker 2: it took a bit of as many people experience when

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Speaker 2: they're starting something new, of having to go back to

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Speaker 2: the beginning. My ego take a bit of a beating, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I got to start from zero here and I got

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Speaker 2: to give some of this up. But why am I

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Speaker 2: doing it? I had lost my purpose, my values, and

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Speaker 2: the deeper things that maybe were driving me starting a

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Speaker 2: podcast in the first place, and so I had to

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Speaker 2: remember those again.

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Speaker 1: And so this was really a story of trying to

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Speaker 1: make sure that your energy was going in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: And this is really the subject of your book, how

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Speaker 1: we can put wiser energy into things. You've argued that

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Speaker 1: we need to pay attention to where our energy is going,

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Speaker 1: that this matters a lot. Why does it matter so much?

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Speaker 2: Well, energy is kind of everything. Right. One hour of

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Speaker 2: something that brings you vitality, of something that opens you up,

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Speaker 2: of even something that's a little bit hard for you,

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Speaker 2: but the end of it you feel regenerated by is

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Speaker 2: a power that could shift your whole day. Right. When

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Speaker 2: our behavior is out of alignment with our values, it

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Speaker 2: actually can really de energize us. And that's why a

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Speaker 2: lot of people come to work with me as a therapist,

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Speaker 2: is because there's a misalignment of who they want to be,

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Speaker 2: how they want to show up, and then it's showing

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Speaker 2: up in dissatisfaction with life.

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Speaker 1: And so sometimes we're throwing way too much energy into

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Speaker 1: the wrong things. In your book, you mented this idea

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Speaker 1: that are striving can sometimes get us stuck. This is

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Speaker 1: something that I resonated with a lot, talk about how

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Speaker 1: our energy can be both a gift and a challenge.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much anyone in your life you can think about

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Speaker 2: their genius qualities, the things that make them them, the

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Speaker 2: special characteristics and strengths and aptitudes that show up that

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Speaker 2: make them right. Those can also become a problem for

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Speaker 2: them if it's not channeled with wisdom. So, for example,

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Speaker 2: with me that podcast, if there was a point of

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Speaker 2: diminishing returns where I needed to shift, I need to

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Speaker 2: be like the bird in the kitchen and look around

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Speaker 2: and do something different. And that takes some discernment. It

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Speaker 2: takes where do you want to put your energy, what

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Speaker 2: your values are, and curiosity and mindfulness.

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Speaker 1: And so we're going to be exploring really deeply your

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Speaker 1: strategies for kind of figuring out how to deploy our

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Speaker 1: energy in as wise a way as possible. I think

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Speaker 1: all my listeners should check out your book to see

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Speaker 1: all the strategies that they are in there. But today

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, we're going to focus on my favorite

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Speaker 1: seven my favorite seven strategies for getting your effort back

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Speaker 1: on track, and a big one is one that you

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Speaker 1: just mentioned, this idea of getting curious. Why is curiosity

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Speaker 1: so essential for getting our energy back on track.

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Speaker 2: Well, one thing about curiosity is it's hard to be

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Speaker 2: curious and judgmental at the same time. You know, if

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Speaker 2: you watch a two year old I used to have

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Speaker 2: two year olds many years ago, and you try and

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Speaker 2: take them for a walk, or a puppy. You try

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Speaker 2: and take a puppy for a walk, and they stop

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Speaker 2: at every snail, they stop at every caterpillar. And when

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Speaker 2: they pick up that snail or that caterpillar, they get

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Speaker 2: down real close to it and lean in. They don't

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Speaker 2: really come at it with the O gross and they

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Speaker 2: don't really come at it with it. I already know

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Speaker 2: how this works. Mind So as we become more inflexible

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Speaker 2: in our thinking, we tend to take on these cognitive

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Speaker 2: inflexibilities of I already know, so I no longer see

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Speaker 2: what's there or I'm judgmental critical, Right, So curiosity is

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Speaker 2: the practice of open mindedness. And and I would say,

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Speaker 2: you know, I kind of think curiosity and openness is

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Speaker 2: the new mindfulness. You know, psychology goes through all these trends.

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Speaker 2: I've been in the field long enough to see the

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Speaker 2: trends change. So I'll tell you the next thing that's

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Speaker 2: coming down the road, down the pipe is openness, so

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Speaker 2: much so that Jonathan Schooler, who's at UCSB out here,

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Speaker 2: is changing the name of his center from the Center

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Speaker 2: of Mindfulness to the Center of Openness because it's a

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Speaker 2: little bit different than mindfulness. It's staying open to the

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Speaker 2: field of possibility. And when you are stuck an unwise effort,

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Speaker 2: often it's because you're that bird flying at the window

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Speaker 2: and you are not open. Either your mind is not open,

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Speaker 2: you've already decided, or you're being judgmental, or you're stuck

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Speaker 2: in a story. But the nature of curiosity is also

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Speaker 2: interesting in that the more curious you are, the more

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Speaker 2: things people experiences can become rewarding to you. Every single

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Speaker 2: client that comes into my office, I am deeply curious

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Speaker 2: about and I am not judgmental about the behaviors or

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Speaker 2: ways that they're stuck. I'm curious about their patterns. What's

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Speaker 2: keeping them stuck? What are the different complex networks of

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Speaker 2: processes that are contributing to their stuckness. Could we almost

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Speaker 2: like map it out like we'd map out a route

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Speaker 2: on a page of how we get from A to B.

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Speaker 2: And when you take that stance towards your own self

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Speaker 2: rather than the judgmental or I already know stance, you're

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Speaker 2: more likely to see possibilities to get you unstuck.

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Speaker 1: But it can also be hard to do that. Now,

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Speaker 1: one of the practices you've recommended to get a little

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Speaker 1: bit more curious is the act of journaling. Why is

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Speaker 1: journaling so powerful forgetting us to become a little bit

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Speaker 1: more curious if done the right way.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad you said if done the right way,

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Speaker 2: because journaling. Journaling can also be a practice in rumination,

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Speaker 2: and we know that from some of the research. If

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Speaker 2: you're sitting there ruminating about how life sucks, then you

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Speaker 2: may feel a little bit more are stuck in your

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Speaker 2: mental patterning about life sucking. So with journaling, there can

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Speaker 2: be a practice of a little bit of what we

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Speaker 2: call cognitive defusion, or a little bit of stepping back

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Speaker 2: and looking at yourself rather than being in it. And

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Speaker 2: if you journal with some prompts or there's a really

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Speaker 2: classic journaling exercise that I have clients to which is

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Speaker 2: just right, now, what are five things that I'm thinking?

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Speaker 2: What are five things that I'm feeling, what are five

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Speaker 2: behaviors that I'm engaging in, and then can I draw

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Speaker 2: my experience. I also like journaling without language an n

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Speaker 2: wise effort. The book I draw it, I'm like, this

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Speaker 2: is what it feels like when I'm stuck. Scribble on

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Speaker 2: the page. It's like the flight pattern of that bird

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Speaker 2: that's all tangled up? What does it feel like inside

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Speaker 2: of you? Draw it? And just that stepping back from

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Speaker 2: something sort of like if you are really up close

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Speaker 2: to a screen and you see that, you know all

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Speaker 2: the pixels of the screen. Take three steps back, or

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Speaker 2: you take three steps back from a painting, you'll have

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Speaker 2: a different perspective on it. And flexible perspective taking is

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Speaker 2: incredibly helpful when we are stuck, So journaling can be

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Speaker 2: a way to do that. Then we can also use

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Speaker 2: our journal with that flexible perspective taking and that curiosity

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Speaker 2: to potentially look at many different views, you know, like

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Speaker 2: what would be a compassionate view, what would be a

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Speaker 2: view from the end of the week if you were

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Speaker 2: to look back on those thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: with clients that are stuck in negative body image, I'll

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Speaker 2: have them write a letter from their body part to them.

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Speaker 2: What would your stomach tell you? You have a lot of

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Speaker 2: things to tell your stomach. I hear it all the time,

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Speaker 2: you know, but what would your stomach say about what

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Speaker 2: it's like to be your stomach? You know, what does

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Speaker 2: your stomach say it needs? What is this your stomach

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Speaker 2: say it wants? What does your stomach wish for you?

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Speaker 2: And it shifts your perspective on pretty much anything that

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Speaker 2: you are critical of.

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Speaker 1: So that's one way to get our energy back on

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Speaker 1: the wiser track, right, get curious, get some perspective, maybe

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Speaker 1: even do that through journaling. But another tip that you

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Speaker 1: talk about a lot in the book is this idea

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Speaker 1: that if we want our energy to go in the

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Speaker 1: right place, we need to better align our energy to

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Speaker 1: our values. You have this quote that I love that

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Speaker 1: when your energy becomes a problem, it's often because your

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Speaker 1: gifts and talents aren't aligned with your values. What are

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Speaker 1: our values and why are they so important to pay

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Speaker 1: attention to?

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of talk about values, and

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Speaker 2: folks will have lists of values. You could go on

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Speaker 2: chat and say, give me a list of one hundred values,

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Speaker 2: and we come up with all these words. But I

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Speaker 2: think of values as qualities of action. What brings you

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Speaker 2: a sense of a liveness, what deep in your heart

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Speaker 2: really matters to you. How do you want to show

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Speaker 2: up in the world. What do you want to stand for?

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Speaker 1: In your book, you note that our values are often

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Speaker 1: the clue to what makes life its most LIFEY. I

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Speaker 1: love that quote because for me it was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, what makes my life the most life is

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Speaker 1: like humor, or social connection, or kind of doing fun things,

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Speaker 1: being a little bit adventurous. I don't tend to think

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Speaker 1: of those exactly as my values, but when I think

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Speaker 1: about my life at its most LIFEY, those are the

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Speaker 1: things that come.

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Speaker 2: Up before bed. Oftentimes is when we worry about stuff.

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Speaker 2: We think about the day, we ruminate on the day,

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Speaker 2: or we worry about what's going to happen tomorrow. I

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Speaker 2: really encourage my clients before bed to do a little

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Speaker 2: scan of their day and when did they feel life

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Speaker 2: at its most LIFEY, You'll be surprised. It's often not

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Speaker 2: what we're putting most of our energy. It's in the

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Speaker 2: in betweens, Like for me, life at it's most life.

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Speaker 2: You have this little strawberry plant outside my kitchen door.

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Speaker 2: And so I planted this little strawberry plant. I've been

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Speaker 2: watching these strawberries change color, and it's life that it's

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Speaker 2: most likely growing something right, life that it's most likely.

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Speaker 2: Two weeks ago was taking my sixteen year old son

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Speaker 2: and his best friends in a car trip down the

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Speaker 2: coast of calif Ffornia surfing and being completely on their

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Speaker 2: schedule and standing outside and watching them surf. It's life

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Speaker 2: that it's most likely. Growing strawberries and surfing with teenagers

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Speaker 2: is not how I spend most of my time or energy,

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Speaker 2: but it tells me a little bit about maybe how

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Speaker 2: I want to be spending more time and energy, what

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Speaker 2: I want to be amplifying.

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Speaker 1: And it's also a great way to figure out how

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Speaker 1: to make whatever you're doing a little bit more enjoyable.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I know you talked about is

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Speaker 1: all these studies where if you can just reflect on

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Speaker 1: your values and how that connects with what you're already doing,

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Speaker 1: it actually makes you do the thing you're trying to

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Speaker 1: already do better and perform better. Tell me about some

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Speaker 1: of these studies.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a classic study that Steve has did with

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Speaker 2: college students who set smart goals at the beginning of

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Speaker 2: a semester. And you know, we think about these smart

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Speaker 2: goals as being specific and meaningful and timely, and many

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Speaker 2: of us have tried smart goals. But what he found

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Speaker 2: was when he added values writing to the smart goals,

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Speaker 2: like why do you care about getting better grades? Why

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Speaker 2: does it really matter to you? What's important to you

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Speaker 2: personally about that? And you know, values are like favorite colors.

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Speaker 2: Yours may be green and mine may be blue. Two

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Speaker 2: kids may have totally different reasons why they care about

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Speaker 2: their grades. And he found that folks that set the

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Speaker 2: smarkles plus the values writing did much better at the

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Speaker 2: end of the semester. They had a significant increase in

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Speaker 2: improvement in their grades. Those that set smarkles alone didn't

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Speaker 2: see that improvement. If you mentioned makes things more enjoyable,

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Speaker 2: but I would tweak that a little bit because living

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Speaker 2: your values doesn't always make things more enjoyable. We know

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Speaker 2: that from parenting and the research on happiness and parenting

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Speaker 2: where parents aren't necessarily happier, but they do report more meaning.

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Speaker 2: So living your values may help you have more intrinsic motivation.

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Speaker 2: I have written quite a bit on exercise and psychological

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Speaker 2: barriers to exercise. If you connect you or exercise to

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Speaker 2: your values, like why does it matter to you to

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Speaker 2: have more physical fitness in your life? What will open

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Speaker 2: up for you? People will say things like I want

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Speaker 2: to get on the floor with my grandkids. I hate

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Speaker 2: sitting in the chair. I want to actually get down

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Speaker 2: and like build the blocks with them. Or other people

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Speaker 2: may say I want to travel and be able to

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Speaker 2: walk through the airport and feel stronger as I walk

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Speaker 2: because I love travel so much. When you connect to

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Speaker 2: those intrinsic reasons, those things that are deep down inside

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Speaker 2: meaningful to you, you're more likely to stick with it.

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Speaker 2: But it doesn't necessarily make it more enjoyable.

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Speaker 1: Fair enough, It also means that we need to disconnect

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Speaker 1: not just maybe from the enjoyment, but also from the outcome.

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Speaker 1: This is something I loved hearing you talk about your strawberries, right.

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Speaker 1: You were just kind of enjoying the process. And this

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Speaker 1: seems to be something that's critical about values. Values aren't

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Speaker 1: about the outcome. They seem to be more about the process.

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Speaker 1: How do we get closer to focusing on the process

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Speaker 1: so we can get closer to our values.

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Speaker 2: Well, one of the challenge is about outcomes. Is our

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Speaker 2: finish lines seem to keep on moving forward. You know.

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Speaker 2: You think about people that are they go on and

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Speaker 2: they get their degree and then their postgraduate degree, and

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Speaker 2: then they it's sort of like the Game of Life.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you ever played that game.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yes.

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Speaker 2: Well I actually bought the game for my kids when

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Speaker 2: they were little, and I was horrified about what we're

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Speaker 2: teaching our children through the Game of Life, because it's

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Speaker 2: this path that you're on and you get a little

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Speaker 2: car and then you put little pink and blue people

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Speaker 2: in it, which is a problem to begin with, right,

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Speaker 2: And then you take the car along and you try

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Speaker 2: and get money, and you try and get degrees, and

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Speaker 2: you try and get to the end where either you

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Speaker 2: have a mansion or a ranch or a shack. And

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Speaker 2: once you get to retirement, you're done, right, You won?

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Speaker 2: What about the whole path along the way and enjoyment? Yes,

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Speaker 2: but meaning and just the process the process of growing

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Speaker 2: the strawberries very different. I could go to the store

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Speaker 2: and buy some strawberries pretty easily, and actually the outcome

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Speaker 2: of those strawberries, I'm sad to say, is they got

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Speaker 2: a little it got a.

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Speaker 1: Little sounds like you're gardening similar to mine.

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Speaker 2: Yes, much of my garden gets eaten, and it's not

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Speaker 2: about that. So we know that our finish lines keep

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Speaker 2: on moving forward, and so trying to go for the

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Speaker 2: finish line is problematic. We know that focusing on the

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Speaker 2: outcome can interfere with our ability to be in the

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Speaker 2: here and now. And it's not that we don't have goals.

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Speaker 2: You make values based goals, but you're also flexible if

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Speaker 2: you don't reach those goals, and focusing on the process

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Speaker 2: can make our effort feel different because we're in it.

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Speaker 2: If you focus on the process of writing a book

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Speaker 2: versus the outcome of the book, your experience of writing

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Speaker 2: is so different. While I was writing this creative process

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Speaker 2: of thoughts coming to me and following this trail and

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Speaker 2: having conversations with people about this idea, it's incredibly exciting

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Speaker 2: and invigorating and brings a lot of vitality when you're

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Speaker 2: in the process, whatever that process is.

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Speaker 1: It's time for a quick break. But when we return,

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Speaker 1: Diana will share more of my favorite tips for getting

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Speaker 1: your energy you back on track. This year, the Happiness

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Speaker 1: Lab will be back in a moment. Clinical psychologist, doctor

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Speaker 1: Diana Hill is on a mission to help us a

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Speaker 1: lot our energy and healthier ways, so we can stop

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Speaker 1: putting effort into the things that don't serve us and

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Speaker 1: start investing in stuff that benefits our well being. So far,

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Speaker 1: we've heard two great tips from her new book, Wise Effort.

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Speaker 1: But strategy number three is what I like to call

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Speaker 1: when in doubt seek variation, a principle that Diana borrowed

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Speaker 1: from an unlikely set of teachers. Autonomous robots in war zones.

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Speaker 2: So Dave is my brother in law, and he designs

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Speaker 2: what he calls the brains of robots. He designs self

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Speaker 2: driving planes. He's worked on segues and robots that go

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Speaker 2: into war zones and look for minds. And one of

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Speaker 2: the things that he designed that he's that was his

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Speaker 2: favorite thing was something called the get Unstuck button. And

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Speaker 2: what this button does, when deployed is if the robot

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Speaker 2: is stuck. Can you imagine a robot stuck in a cave, right.

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Speaker 2: It's designed to do everything in its repertoire other than

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Speaker 2: what it's doing. So this robot may jump up and

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Speaker 2: down and may hit its head against the wall, may

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Speaker 2: crawl down real low, and may go backwards, it may

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Speaker 2: go sideways, and eventually the chances of that robot getting

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Speaker 2: unstuck are much higher than the robot doing what it

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Speaker 2: was doing. But this maps onto behavioral evolution, where we

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Speaker 2: have a lot of interest in evolutionary psychology and how

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Speaker 2: evolution can inform or understanding of human behavior. But there's

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Speaker 2: also something about how evolution can help us understand how

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Speaker 2: to evolve our behavior in this lifetime. And one principle

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Speaker 2: of evolution is that you need variation to evolve. You

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Speaker 2: think about Darwin's finches. You need all those varieties of

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Speaker 2: finches to figure out which beak fit to crack, which

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Speaker 2: nuts on which island. So we need variation in our behavior.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that we tend to do when

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Speaker 2: we get scared, or when we're frustrated, or when we're angry,

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Speaker 2: is that we tend to have a narrowing of attention

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Speaker 2: and a narrowing of our behavioral repertoire. That narrowing actually

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Speaker 2: leads us to stay more stuck. So we first need variation.

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Speaker 2: But there's actually three steps to behavioral evolution. One is variation,

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Speaker 2: the second one is selection. Notice when something works. We

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Speaker 2: have to notice when something is shifting and it may

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Speaker 2: be working. And then the third step is we have

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Speaker 2: to reinforce and retain what works. And we go through

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Speaker 2: that cycle over and over again. Mix things up when

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Speaker 2: you're stuck, find things that are working, and then retain

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Speaker 2: and reinforce what does work. But don't get so stuck

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Speaker 2: in your habit. You know, just because it worked five

434
00:23:04,476 --> 00:23:06,916
Speaker 2: years ago doesn't mean it's going to work now. So

435
00:23:06,956 --> 00:23:08,796
Speaker 2: we also need to stay open and flexible.

436
00:23:09,236 --> 00:23:10,876
Speaker 1: And I think that actor trying to stay open and

437
00:23:10,916 --> 00:23:13,596
Speaker 1: flexible can be really tricky because it sometimes means trying

438
00:23:13,596 --> 00:23:16,676
Speaker 1: out behaviors that we think are wrong or that we've rejected,

439
00:23:16,796 --> 00:23:18,476
Speaker 1: or that we worry won't be a good part of

440
00:23:18,476 --> 00:23:20,836
Speaker 1: our identity and so on. And so this act of

441
00:23:20,996 --> 00:23:25,276
Speaker 1: engaging in variation sometimes comes with a little discomfort, and

442
00:23:25,316 --> 00:23:28,556
Speaker 1: that gets to our next strategy, strategy number four. One

443
00:23:28,596 --> 00:23:30,316
Speaker 1: of the things we need to do to apply our

444
00:23:30,396 --> 00:23:32,916
Speaker 1: energy a little bit more wisely is to stop running

445
00:23:32,916 --> 00:23:36,596
Speaker 1: away from discomfort. Discomfort doesn't feel good. Why is running

446
00:23:36,596 --> 00:23:38,036
Speaker 1: away from it so counterproductive?

447
00:23:39,316 --> 00:23:43,636
Speaker 2: Well, there's two things that are problematic about running away

448
00:23:43,636 --> 00:23:47,876
Speaker 2: from discomfort. The first is often the ways in which

449
00:23:48,076 --> 00:23:51,956
Speaker 2: we run away from discomfort cause secondary problems. So we

450
00:23:51,996 --> 00:23:54,316
Speaker 2: can think about this. You know, I'm sitting at my computer,

451
00:23:54,836 --> 00:23:58,276
Speaker 2: I'm going through my emails. There's the emails that I

452
00:23:58,516 --> 00:24:02,116
Speaker 2: don't want to respond to, so I just kind of

453
00:24:02,156 --> 00:24:05,556
Speaker 2: pass over them, and then I repeatedly avoid those emails

454
00:24:05,556 --> 00:24:08,036
Speaker 2: and avoid those emails, and avoid those emails until oh, no,

455
00:24:08,116 --> 00:24:09,996
Speaker 2: one of those emails was really important for me to

456
00:24:10,036 --> 00:24:13,436
Speaker 2: pay attention to. Or the way in which you're avoiding it,

457
00:24:13,756 --> 00:24:15,756
Speaker 2: maybe you're getting up and you're going to the fridge,

458
00:24:16,236 --> 00:24:18,956
Speaker 2: or you're going outside to have a smoke. These avoidance

459
00:24:18,996 --> 00:24:24,196
Speaker 2: strategies usually fall into the category of distracting yourself, numbing

460
00:24:24,236 --> 00:24:30,956
Speaker 2: yourself out with substances food technology. We avoid through bracing

461
00:24:30,956 --> 00:24:32,836
Speaker 2: with our body, holding our breath. I don't want to

462
00:24:32,876 --> 00:24:38,996
Speaker 2: feel it. We avoid through procrastination, We avoid through giving up.

463
00:24:39,796 --> 00:24:41,836
Speaker 2: So all of those strategies, you can think about what

464
00:24:41,876 --> 00:24:44,236
Speaker 2: your favorite ones are, and we all do them. Have

465
00:24:44,356 --> 00:24:46,996
Speaker 2: these secondary problems because now not only are you dealing

466
00:24:46,996 --> 00:24:48,956
Speaker 2: with the pain that you were avoiding, but now you're

467
00:24:48,996 --> 00:24:50,556
Speaker 2: dealing with the pain of the thing that you do

468
00:24:50,636 --> 00:24:55,396
Speaker 2: to avoid. The other problem with avoidance is that oftentimes

469
00:24:55,796 --> 00:25:00,276
Speaker 2: the things that we avoid are connected to our values

470
00:25:00,276 --> 00:25:03,636
Speaker 2: in some way or form. The things that matter to

471
00:25:03,836 --> 00:25:07,716
Speaker 2: us are often the things that cause us the most discomfort.

472
00:25:08,476 --> 00:25:14,876
Speaker 2: You will void or procrastinate on the projects that you really, really,

473
00:25:14,916 --> 00:25:17,556
Speaker 2: really care about doing a good job for, and then

474
00:25:17,596 --> 00:25:19,796
Speaker 2: you'll choose the things that don't really matter. You'll answer

475
00:25:19,836 --> 00:25:23,076
Speaker 2: the emails that don't really matter right because you're putting

476
00:25:23,076 --> 00:25:24,876
Speaker 2: off the email that really is the one that's the

477
00:25:24,876 --> 00:25:28,636
Speaker 2: important one that you care about. And if we start

478
00:25:28,636 --> 00:25:31,316
Speaker 2: to look at it that way, like, oh no, the

479
00:25:31,396 --> 00:25:33,396
Speaker 2: thing that I care about is also in the same

480
00:25:33,516 --> 00:25:37,116
Speaker 2: direction as the thing that brings me pain, then we

481
00:25:37,156 --> 00:25:41,116
Speaker 2: actually need to practice and get better at being with

482
00:25:41,236 --> 00:25:45,356
Speaker 2: discomfort so we can pursue what we care about. And

483
00:25:45,396 --> 00:25:47,756
Speaker 2: that's a good use of our energy. Pursuing what we

484
00:25:47,836 --> 00:25:50,196
Speaker 2: care about is going to be uncomfortable.

485
00:25:49,956 --> 00:25:51,916
Speaker 1: And so let's talk about some strategies we can use

486
00:25:51,956 --> 00:25:53,796
Speaker 1: to deal with that discomfort. One of the ones you

487
00:25:53,836 --> 00:25:55,836
Speaker 1: talk about a lot, I know, especially in kind of

488
00:25:55,876 --> 00:25:59,596
Speaker 1: ACT therapy, is this idea of radical acceptance. What's radical

489
00:25:59,596 --> 00:26:01,836
Speaker 1: acceptance and how can it help us through discomfort?

490
00:26:02,836 --> 00:26:09,836
Speaker 2: Radical acceptance is willingness, openness, making space for allowing. I'm

491
00:26:09,916 --> 00:26:11,796
Speaker 2: using other words because some people do not like the

492
00:26:11,836 --> 00:26:14,316
Speaker 2: word acceptance. As a therapist, I'm like, this is going

493
00:26:14,356 --> 00:26:14,596
Speaker 2: to be.

494
00:26:14,556 --> 00:26:16,636
Speaker 1: My next question, because whenever I talk to my students

495
00:26:16,636 --> 00:26:18,796
Speaker 1: about radical acceptance, they'll be like, well, this is some

496
00:26:19,436 --> 00:26:21,836
Speaker 1: terrible thing about the organization I work for, or a

497
00:26:21,836 --> 00:26:23,796
Speaker 1: thing that I'm really frustrated with in the world. I

498
00:26:23,796 --> 00:26:26,396
Speaker 1: don't want to just radically accept this thing that's bugging me.

499
00:26:26,796 --> 00:26:28,756
Speaker 1: Those other words feel a little bit softer, but the

500
00:26:28,756 --> 00:26:31,276
Speaker 1: idea seems to be the same. It's that like, this

501
00:26:31,316 --> 00:26:33,236
Speaker 1: is just a fact about the world. So we can

502
00:26:33,316 --> 00:26:35,476
Speaker 1: either keep denying that fact and sticking your head in

503
00:26:35,516 --> 00:26:38,276
Speaker 1: the ground and avoiding it, or we can just dig

504
00:26:38,316 --> 00:26:40,876
Speaker 1: aity breath and realize that this is the way it is.

505
00:26:41,756 --> 00:26:45,716
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's a difference between acceptance and approval. There

506
00:26:45,756 --> 00:26:50,436
Speaker 2: is a difference between acceptance and allowing harm to be done.

507
00:26:51,036 --> 00:26:55,476
Speaker 2: There's a difference between acceptance and saying something is okay.

508
00:26:56,276 --> 00:26:59,036
Speaker 2: Radical acceptance is exactly we described, this is what is.

509
00:26:59,756 --> 00:27:02,836
Speaker 2: And once you can acknowledge this is what is, even

510
00:27:02,876 --> 00:27:04,756
Speaker 2: if I don't like what is, You're welcomed to not

511
00:27:05,116 --> 00:27:07,836
Speaker 2: not like it and still accept it. You're welcome to

512
00:27:08,196 --> 00:27:10,236
Speaker 2: I don't like it and I'm going to accept it.

513
00:27:10,916 --> 00:27:13,876
Speaker 2: When my son was little, he hated getting his head

514
00:27:13,876 --> 00:27:16,116
Speaker 2: wet ever since he was born. He was learning how

515
00:27:16,116 --> 00:27:17,996
Speaker 2: to swim, and all his friends were in the deep end.

516
00:27:18,236 --> 00:27:20,156
Speaker 2: It took a while to learn how to swim because

517
00:27:20,156 --> 00:27:21,756
Speaker 2: he didn't want to get his head wet. And I

518
00:27:21,756 --> 00:27:24,916
Speaker 2: remember at some point telling him, you know, honey, in

519
00:27:25,076 --> 00:27:27,316
Speaker 2: order to go play with your friends in the deep end,

520
00:27:27,916 --> 00:27:29,756
Speaker 2: you're going to have to get your head wet. I

521
00:27:29,796 --> 00:27:32,276
Speaker 2: know you don't like it. And we can think about

522
00:27:32,316 --> 00:27:35,276
Speaker 2: whatever that deep end move is for us. You're going

523
00:27:35,356 --> 00:27:37,996
Speaker 2: to need to accept some things that are happening. And

524
00:27:38,716 --> 00:27:44,116
Speaker 2: radical acceptance actually allows for change, allows for a shift,

525
00:27:44,196 --> 00:27:48,716
Speaker 2: because often the non accepting is what narrows us, what

526
00:27:48,876 --> 00:27:52,796
Speaker 2: keeps us in the shallow end of life, because we

527
00:27:52,836 --> 00:27:54,196
Speaker 2: don't accept that we're going to have to get our

528
00:27:54,236 --> 00:27:57,156
Speaker 2: head wet, and life is a series of headwts, you know,

529
00:27:58,476 --> 00:28:02,276
Speaker 2: over and over again, like oh, you know, radical acceptance

530
00:28:02,356 --> 00:28:08,036
Speaker 2: can be like I'm radically accepting the discomfort of this

531
00:28:08,156 --> 00:28:12,636
Speaker 2: relationship with this person and how uncomfortable it is to

532
00:28:12,756 --> 00:28:15,316
Speaker 2: be honest with them about something, or to set a

533
00:28:15,316 --> 00:28:19,716
Speaker 2: boundary around something, or to stay in the conversation long

534
00:28:19,836 --> 00:28:21,956
Speaker 2: enough that we get through the hard part to the

535
00:28:21,996 --> 00:28:24,636
Speaker 2: other side of it to understand each other and then

536
00:28:24,676 --> 00:28:28,116
Speaker 2: to radically accept what's happening inside of me. And there's

537
00:28:28,156 --> 00:28:30,956
Speaker 2: a big distinction and acceptance and commitment therapy or act

538
00:28:31,156 --> 00:28:36,276
Speaker 2: around acceptances really about what Kirk Strassel calls your teams

539
00:28:36,596 --> 00:28:41,076
Speaker 2: acceptance of your thoughts T, acceptance of your emotions E,

540
00:28:41,716 --> 00:28:47,716
Speaker 2: acceptance of your action urges acceptionance of your memories, acceptance

541
00:28:47,836 --> 00:28:51,796
Speaker 2: of your sensations. And when you can accept what's going

542
00:28:51,796 --> 00:28:54,436
Speaker 2: on inside of you, then you can be more flexible

543
00:28:54,476 --> 00:28:57,716
Speaker 2: on the outside and maybe make some changes on the outside.

544
00:28:58,196 --> 00:29:00,796
Speaker 1: I love that you brought up the team's acronym because

545
00:29:00,836 --> 00:29:02,636
Speaker 1: the next tip that we're going to be jumping into

546
00:29:02,756 --> 00:29:04,876
Speaker 1: is tip number five, which is that to channel our

547
00:29:04,996 --> 00:29:08,556
Speaker 1: energy wisely, we need to learn to work with those thoughts.

548
00:29:08,636 --> 00:29:10,596
Speaker 1: We need to learned to work with what you've called

549
00:29:10,636 --> 00:29:13,436
Speaker 1: our rooster minds. I've heard of our monkey minds before.

550
00:29:13,556 --> 00:29:15,716
Speaker 1: Rooster Minds was a first one for me, and reading

551
00:29:15,756 --> 00:29:17,596
Speaker 1: your book Why a Rooster Mind?

552
00:29:18,316 --> 00:29:21,356
Speaker 2: Oh gosh. During COVID, a lot of people got pets

553
00:29:21,676 --> 00:29:24,036
Speaker 2: and they got cats and dogs. Well, my neighbors got

554
00:29:24,076 --> 00:29:27,756
Speaker 2: a rooster. We live up in this foothill area of

555
00:29:27,796 --> 00:29:30,436
Speaker 2: Santa Barbara. Lots of people have chickens, but this was

556
00:29:30,476 --> 00:29:34,996
Speaker 2: a first. And what this rooster did was crow all

557
00:29:35,076 --> 00:29:37,476
Speaker 2: day long. We have we think that rooster's just crow

558
00:29:37,476 --> 00:29:40,276
Speaker 2: in the morning, you know, like on the Kellogg's cereal box.

559
00:29:40,316 --> 00:29:43,756
Speaker 2: But no, they crow all day long. And our mind

560
00:29:43,836 --> 00:29:46,956
Speaker 2: is a lot like that. So our mind is constantly

561
00:29:47,036 --> 00:29:50,276
Speaker 2: producing thoughts. Some of those thoughts may be helpful, some

562
00:29:50,316 --> 00:29:56,076
Speaker 2: of those thoughts may be unhelpful. And when you follow

563
00:29:57,196 --> 00:30:01,396
Speaker 2: or fight your mind, what happens is you get pulled

564
00:30:01,396 --> 00:30:03,996
Speaker 2: off track from what you're doing. So if thatt rooster

565
00:30:04,116 --> 00:30:08,316
Speaker 2: was crowing and I was working on, you know, this,

566
00:30:08,436 --> 00:30:10,756
Speaker 2: a session with a client, or I was in a

567
00:30:10,836 --> 00:30:13,956
Speaker 2: podcast interview, and if I was just like, I hate

568
00:30:13,956 --> 00:30:16,636
Speaker 2: that rooster. Oh there's a rooster again, then all of

569
00:30:16,676 --> 00:30:18,676
Speaker 2: a sudden, I'm not engaging in my values, which was

570
00:30:18,716 --> 00:30:21,836
Speaker 2: being present with a client or maybe sharing some information

571
00:30:21,916 --> 00:30:25,236
Speaker 2: on the podcast. Oftentimes that's what we do with the mind.

572
00:30:25,276 --> 00:30:29,556
Speaker 2: We either follow its rules or we fight it. And really,

573
00:30:29,716 --> 00:30:32,036
Speaker 2: to work with that rooster, the best thing you can

574
00:30:32,076 --> 00:30:34,356
Speaker 2: do is just to notice that it cock. A doodle

575
00:30:34,436 --> 00:30:37,156
Speaker 2: dos all the time, and where do you want to

576
00:30:37,196 --> 00:30:40,116
Speaker 2: focus your energy? We can become better at creating space

577
00:30:40,156 --> 00:30:43,356
Speaker 2: for our mind. Noticing our mind, we can choose which

578
00:30:43,396 --> 00:30:45,516
Speaker 2: thoughts we want to pay attention to, which thoughts are

579
00:30:45,876 --> 00:30:48,196
Speaker 2: aligned with our values, which thoughts are helpful in the moment.

580
00:30:48,676 --> 00:30:50,956
Speaker 2: As you and I have this interview, and as listeners

581
00:30:50,996 --> 00:30:53,836
Speaker 2: are listening in, they're having all sorts of thoughts that

582
00:30:53,876 --> 00:30:55,956
Speaker 2: are going on. Some may be related to what we're

583
00:30:55,996 --> 00:30:59,716
Speaker 2: talking about, some may be completely unrelated. But they get

584
00:30:59,716 --> 00:31:02,716
Speaker 2: to be the chooser of which thoughts they pay attention to.

585
00:31:02,876 --> 00:31:07,036
Speaker 2: And that's a revolutionary way of living in the world.

586
00:31:07,316 --> 00:31:09,516
Speaker 2: I know that you have written about and speak a

587
00:31:09,556 --> 00:31:14,756
Speaker 2: lot about the problems of the mind, and this concept

588
00:31:14,756 --> 00:31:18,476
Speaker 2: of cognitive deffusion and ACT is the capacity to just

589
00:31:18,516 --> 00:31:21,596
Speaker 2: take like three steps back and let the mind do

590
00:31:21,676 --> 00:31:24,556
Speaker 2: what it does, rather than being all entangled in it.

591
00:31:24,756 --> 00:31:27,556
Speaker 2: Steve Hayes, the founder of ACT, talks about our minds

592
00:31:27,556 --> 00:31:30,316
Speaker 2: being like spider webs, and trying to go in and

593
00:31:30,356 --> 00:31:32,836
Speaker 2: rearrange our mind is like trying to rearrange his spider web?

594
00:31:33,636 --> 00:31:34,596
Speaker 2: Do you really want to do that?

595
00:31:35,956 --> 00:31:38,236
Speaker 1: You've also talked about how we can question our thoughts

596
00:31:38,236 --> 00:31:40,556
Speaker 1: and specific questions we can bring to our thoughts when

597
00:31:40,556 --> 00:31:42,636
Speaker 1: we need to. What are some questions that we can bring.

598
00:31:43,196 --> 00:31:47,356
Speaker 2: Oh, I love whise speech from the practice of Buddhism.

599
00:31:47,436 --> 00:31:50,796
Speaker 2: And actually this whole concept of wise effort comes from Buddhism,

600
00:31:50,796 --> 00:31:52,876
Speaker 2: and it's one of the steps on the eight ful

601
00:31:52,956 --> 00:31:56,116
Speaker 2: path of awakening. Buddhism has all these numbers, like the

602
00:31:56,156 --> 00:31:58,996
Speaker 2: four Noble truths, and the fourth noble truth is that

603
00:31:59,076 --> 00:32:01,356
Speaker 2: there's a path to awakening, and then there's eight things

604
00:32:01,356 --> 00:32:03,756
Speaker 2: in this path to awakening. I grew up my dad

605
00:32:04,236 --> 00:32:06,436
Speaker 2: was Buddhist, and so there was always these like lists

606
00:32:06,476 --> 00:32:10,316
Speaker 2: of things, right. But one of the steps on that

607
00:32:10,516 --> 00:32:14,236
Speaker 2: eight full path is something called why speech. And I

608
00:32:14,276 --> 00:32:17,156
Speaker 2: really like it because we can think about whyse speech

609
00:32:17,196 --> 00:32:18,836
Speaker 2: in how we talk to others, but we can also

610
00:32:18,876 --> 00:32:21,036
Speaker 2: think about why speech in terms of our own internal

611
00:32:21,076 --> 00:32:24,956
Speaker 2: speech and why speech has These questions you can ask

612
00:32:25,716 --> 00:32:27,516
Speaker 2: if you're in the middle of the night waking up

613
00:32:27,556 --> 00:32:30,036
Speaker 2: and you have a worry, or maybe you're about to

614
00:32:30,076 --> 00:32:32,956
Speaker 2: do something that's really difficult and you're going to step

615
00:32:32,996 --> 00:32:37,156
Speaker 2: into something new, or maybe you're learning something and your

616
00:32:37,196 --> 00:32:40,596
Speaker 2: mind is growing away, you can ask yourself these four

617
00:32:40,676 --> 00:32:48,156
Speaker 2: questions one is it kind? Two? Is it true? Three?

618
00:32:48,956 --> 00:32:52,916
Speaker 2: Is it timely? Like is this a good time to

619
00:32:53,076 --> 00:32:55,476
Speaker 2: be focusing on this? It's two am? Should I really

620
00:32:55,516 --> 00:32:57,716
Speaker 2: be dealing with my worry right now? Do I have

621
00:32:57,716 --> 00:33:00,276
Speaker 2: any capacity to deal with this right now? And then

622
00:33:00,716 --> 00:33:04,116
Speaker 2: four is it helpful? Because sometimes it may be true.

623
00:33:04,876 --> 00:33:06,756
Speaker 2: You may be stumbling over your words if you have

624
00:33:06,796 --> 00:33:10,556
Speaker 2: social anxiety. Maybe you did make a little you know, sound,

625
00:33:10,716 --> 00:33:13,116
Speaker 2: or said a word in the wrong way. But if

626
00:33:13,116 --> 00:33:15,516
Speaker 2: you stick to it, you know, like get into that

627
00:33:15,556 --> 00:33:18,636
Speaker 2: spider web all of a sudden, it's not helpful for you.

628
00:33:18,756 --> 00:33:21,956
Speaker 2: It's gonna mess you up even more so. Is it kind?

629
00:33:22,036 --> 00:33:24,836
Speaker 2: Is it true? Is it timely? Is it helpful? Just

630
00:33:24,956 --> 00:33:27,836
Speaker 2: asking those questions you don't even have to fully flesh

631
00:33:27,876 --> 00:33:31,596
Speaker 2: out the answers can give you that step back enough

632
00:33:31,916 --> 00:33:34,956
Speaker 2: to engage in wiser speech with yourself. What is kind?

633
00:33:35,076 --> 00:33:38,116
Speaker 2: What is true? What is helpful? What is timely? Right

634
00:33:38,156 --> 00:33:40,276
Speaker 2: now for you, it's time.

635
00:33:40,116 --> 00:33:42,796
Speaker 1: For another break, But when we return, Diana will share

636
00:33:42,836 --> 00:33:46,756
Speaker 1: her final two tips for getting unstuck. The Happiness Lab

637
00:33:46,796 --> 00:33:57,276
Speaker 1: will be back in a moment. Welcome back, Clinical psychologist,

638
00:33:57,276 --> 00:33:59,676
Speaker 1: Doctor Diana Hill and I are ready to dive into

639
00:33:59,716 --> 00:34:03,156
Speaker 1: strategy number six for getting your energy unstuck, and that

640
00:34:03,196 --> 00:34:06,516
Speaker 1: tip involves learning to form a more compassionate relationship with

641
00:34:06,636 --> 00:34:09,516
Speaker 1: your body. That might sound a little abstract, so I

642
00:34:09,556 --> 00:34:12,476
Speaker 1: asked Diana to break down what this idea of embodiment

643
00:34:12,676 --> 00:34:14,076
Speaker 1: really looks like in practice.

644
00:34:14,316 --> 00:34:17,476
Speaker 2: First, we can think about people who we think of

645
00:34:17,516 --> 00:34:20,556
Speaker 2: as being embodied. You know, like they walk into the

646
00:34:20,596 --> 00:34:23,596
Speaker 2: room and you feel like they're in their body. They're

647
00:34:23,596 --> 00:34:27,156
Speaker 2: not in their heads. They maybe speak from their body,

648
00:34:27,196 --> 00:34:30,596
Speaker 2: from their heart. Most of the time, we many of us,

649
00:34:30,796 --> 00:34:33,236
Speaker 2: are like walking heads. We're not in our bodies. We

650
00:34:33,276 --> 00:34:35,956
Speaker 2: don't feel our bodies. We're cut off from our bodies.

651
00:34:35,956 --> 00:34:39,396
Speaker 2: We're afraid of our bodies, the sensations in our bodies.

652
00:34:39,756 --> 00:34:45,996
Speaker 2: Being embody means living inside this bodily form, and part

653
00:34:45,996 --> 00:34:49,036
Speaker 2: of that has to do with something called interceptible awareness,

654
00:34:49,236 --> 00:34:52,236
Speaker 2: which is something that I researched really early on in

655
00:34:52,276 --> 00:34:56,076
Speaker 2: my studies. My master thesis was around interceptive awareness. My

656
00:34:56,116 --> 00:35:00,116
Speaker 2: dissertation was in part around intercept awareness, and interceptive awareness

657
00:35:00,196 --> 00:35:02,476
Speaker 2: is just your awareness of what's going on. Do you

658
00:35:02,596 --> 00:35:05,556
Speaker 2: know your own heartbeat, your own breath, your own hunger,

659
00:35:05,596 --> 00:35:09,556
Speaker 2: your own fullness, Can you feel emotions in your body.

660
00:35:10,076 --> 00:35:12,116
Speaker 2: Could you point to it, like where you feel it.

661
00:35:12,556 --> 00:35:15,436
Speaker 2: Could you describe it with words like if you're having

662
00:35:15,476 --> 00:35:19,236
Speaker 2: anxiety rather than the heady anxiety. Things that you might

663
00:35:19,276 --> 00:35:21,036
Speaker 2: say like I'm worried about this, I'm worried about that.

664
00:35:21,436 --> 00:35:24,836
Speaker 2: You may say something like it feels heavy, it's got

665
00:35:24,836 --> 00:35:26,956
Speaker 2: a texture to it, it's got a color to it.

666
00:35:27,596 --> 00:35:32,436
Speaker 2: So to be embodied is really helpful in the sense

667
00:35:32,436 --> 00:35:34,156
Speaker 2: that it gets us out of our heads. For one,

668
00:35:34,676 --> 00:35:37,036
Speaker 2: our bodies hold a lot of information that may be

669
00:35:37,236 --> 00:35:39,676
Speaker 2: useful to us. There is some research on folks that

670
00:35:39,756 --> 00:35:43,916
Speaker 2: have higher levels of interceptible awareness make better decisions. Even

671
00:35:43,956 --> 00:35:47,196
Speaker 2: financial traders make more money. There's an association around that,

672
00:35:47,316 --> 00:35:49,396
Speaker 2: like if you're a financial trader and you have more

673
00:35:49,436 --> 00:35:53,476
Speaker 2: intercept awareness of your heartbeat, you make better decisions. And

674
00:35:53,876 --> 00:35:56,796
Speaker 2: in my work with eating disorders, there's a good amount

675
00:35:56,796 --> 00:35:59,876
Speaker 2: of research on intercept awareness and choices around food and

676
00:35:59,956 --> 00:36:03,076
Speaker 2: eating that if you know if you're hungry or full,

677
00:36:03,596 --> 00:36:07,676
Speaker 2: it's kind of a useful tool right in terms of

678
00:36:07,676 --> 00:36:09,716
Speaker 2: when to start eating and when to eating.

679
00:36:10,396 --> 00:36:12,876
Speaker 1: Our body is also really useful for the decisions that

680
00:36:12,916 --> 00:36:14,756
Speaker 1: we make. You know, sometimes we're making a decision that

681
00:36:14,836 --> 00:36:17,076
Speaker 1: might feel like a hard decision. But if we check

682
00:36:17,116 --> 00:36:19,156
Speaker 1: in with our bodies, even though our mind is like

683
00:36:19,276 --> 00:36:21,156
Speaker 1: I don't know, should I accept this thing or not,

684
00:36:21,556 --> 00:36:24,156
Speaker 1: our bodies are screaming at us say, like, don't accept

685
00:36:24,156 --> 00:36:26,876
Speaker 1: that calendar invite or don't say yes to that thing.

686
00:36:27,396 --> 00:36:29,116
Speaker 1: One of my favorite parts of your book is you've

687
00:36:29,116 --> 00:36:31,836
Speaker 1: talked about the importance of noticing a whole body yes

688
00:36:32,316 --> 00:36:34,636
Speaker 1: or a whole body no. I now get the sense

689
00:36:34,636 --> 00:36:36,436
Speaker 1: of what that is. But explain to our listeners what

690
00:36:36,476 --> 00:36:37,076
Speaker 1: you mean by that.

691
00:36:38,196 --> 00:36:40,236
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, we as you describe, we've all had the

692
00:36:40,316 --> 00:36:43,676
Speaker 2: experience where maybe we've been invited to do something, or

693
00:36:43,716 --> 00:36:46,316
Speaker 2: I'll be asked to be on a panel, and everything

694
00:36:46,356 --> 00:36:48,756
Speaker 2: on paper looks really good about it, like this is

695
00:36:48,796 --> 00:36:52,476
Speaker 2: a great opportunity. There's all these you know, esteemed researchers

696
00:36:52,596 --> 00:36:55,076
Speaker 2: on this panel. This would be a great thing to

697
00:36:55,076 --> 00:36:57,836
Speaker 2: have on your CV. And my body is like ah ah,

698
00:37:00,156 --> 00:37:02,396
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm like comparing, like should I go

699
00:37:02,436 --> 00:37:04,516
Speaker 2: on the panel or should I take the surf trip

700
00:37:04,556 --> 00:37:08,076
Speaker 2: with the kids? Right? And my body's like yes. And

701
00:37:08,156 --> 00:37:11,836
Speaker 2: part of that embodied intuition or the whole body yes,

702
00:37:12,276 --> 00:37:16,676
Speaker 2: comes from your body's learning. Your body has been on

703
00:37:16,756 --> 00:37:21,276
Speaker 2: panels before and remembers your body has put off the

704
00:37:21,316 --> 00:37:24,116
Speaker 2: surf trip before and remember, So it's not necessarily like

705
00:37:24,116 --> 00:37:26,956
Speaker 2: it's just like magical thing coming out of nowhere. Some

706
00:37:27,036 --> 00:37:30,756
Speaker 2: of our intuition comes from past experiences of learning that

707
00:37:30,796 --> 00:37:33,036
Speaker 2: we may not have the cognitive memory, but we have

708
00:37:33,116 --> 00:37:36,716
Speaker 2: more of the embodied memory, and the embodied memory comes quicker. Right,

709
00:37:36,796 --> 00:37:39,516
Speaker 2: So a whole body yes is just that like you

710
00:37:39,636 --> 00:37:41,436
Speaker 2: check in with your body. I think it's an important

711
00:37:41,436 --> 00:37:44,036
Speaker 2: part of wise effort, and you ask your body, is

712
00:37:44,076 --> 00:37:45,956
Speaker 2: this a yes? Like? What does it feel like? Does

713
00:37:45,956 --> 00:37:49,356
Speaker 2: my body feel more open or does it feel more contracted?

714
00:37:49,996 --> 00:37:54,276
Speaker 2: Does it lean in or does it kind of shy away?

715
00:37:54,356 --> 00:37:57,236
Speaker 2: And we want to combine the whole body yes with

716
00:37:57,356 --> 00:38:00,436
Speaker 2: other things. Right, so is this a whole body yes?

717
00:38:01,156 --> 00:38:04,076
Speaker 2: And does it align with my values? So we can

718
00:38:04,116 --> 00:38:06,356
Speaker 2: listen to our bodies, but it's one piece of information.

719
00:38:06,596 --> 00:38:10,036
Speaker 2: I'm always a fan of multiple forms information to help

720
00:38:10,076 --> 00:38:13,556
Speaker 2: inform our wisest efforts and our decision making, but the

721
00:38:13,596 --> 00:38:15,596
Speaker 2: body is often one that we leave out.

722
00:38:16,036 --> 00:38:18,236
Speaker 1: Given that we need some help paying attention to our bodies,

723
00:38:18,276 --> 00:38:20,476
Speaker 1: you've suggested an acronym that we can all use to

724
00:38:20,516 --> 00:38:22,876
Speaker 1: get a little bit more in tune. It's the acronym

725
00:38:22,996 --> 00:38:26,596
Speaker 1: of heart agart. What does this acronym stand for.

726
00:38:26,996 --> 00:38:28,916
Speaker 2: It's just a little check in around some of the

727
00:38:28,916 --> 00:38:30,956
Speaker 2: things that we often don't pay attention to. That maybe

728
00:38:30,996 --> 00:38:35,076
Speaker 2: we could increase our attention to. H stands for hunger

729
00:38:35,116 --> 00:38:39,356
Speaker 2: and fullness. Before you start eating? Are you hungry as

730
00:38:39,396 --> 00:38:41,916
Speaker 2: you're eating? When is the point of diminishing returns? Where

731
00:38:41,916 --> 00:38:44,676
Speaker 2: if you keep eating, you're eating past fullness? Right? Just

732
00:38:44,756 --> 00:38:48,956
Speaker 2: checking in with that helpful thing to relearn and get

733
00:38:48,996 --> 00:38:50,516
Speaker 2: more used to. There's a lot of things that are

734
00:38:50,556 --> 00:38:53,876
Speaker 2: pulling us away from our hunger and fullness. E stands

735
00:38:53,876 --> 00:38:56,836
Speaker 2: for emotions. What am I feeling in my body? Not

736
00:38:56,916 --> 00:38:59,716
Speaker 2: thinking in my head? And that increases our just capacity

737
00:38:59,716 --> 00:39:02,676
Speaker 2: to be with emotions. The more we can be with

738
00:39:02,956 --> 00:39:07,716
Speaker 2: urges without acting on them, strong emotions without reacting to them,

739
00:39:08,196 --> 00:39:12,516
Speaker 2: the more emotionally flexible we become. A is an interesting one,

740
00:39:12,956 --> 00:39:17,796
Speaker 2: which is activity. Does your body want to move? Is

741
00:39:17,836 --> 00:39:21,276
Speaker 2: it creating movement? And you see this in kids, they

742
00:39:21,436 --> 00:39:24,196
Speaker 2: naturally want to move their bodies. When I took those

743
00:39:24,316 --> 00:39:25,956
Speaker 2: sixteen year olds on a surf trip, as soon as

744
00:39:25,996 --> 00:39:27,796
Speaker 2: we would hit the gas station, they jump out of

745
00:39:27,836 --> 00:39:30,876
Speaker 2: the car and start throwing the football. Right, they needed

746
00:39:30,916 --> 00:39:35,876
Speaker 2: to move, but many of us have disregarded, overrided our

747
00:39:36,036 --> 00:39:39,036
Speaker 2: need for movement, and it can turn into things like

748
00:39:39,076 --> 00:39:41,716
Speaker 2: I'm feeling irritable, but really what I need is a walk,

749
00:39:42,276 --> 00:39:46,236
Speaker 2: you know. And then our stands for rest. Do I

750
00:39:46,356 --> 00:39:49,556
Speaker 2: need to rest again? This is another one that we

751
00:39:49,636 --> 00:39:51,676
Speaker 2: need to rest, but what we do is we turn

752
00:39:51,796 --> 00:39:55,076
Speaker 2: to junk food sources of rest. We try and rest

753
00:39:55,116 --> 00:39:58,196
Speaker 2: by scrolling on our phone, we rest by watching YouTube.

754
00:39:58,436 --> 00:40:01,756
Speaker 2: But what our body may really need is a deep rest.

755
00:40:02,196 --> 00:40:05,556
Speaker 2: Alyssa Epple talks a lot about the benefits of deeper rests,

756
00:40:05,676 --> 00:40:10,956
Speaker 2: you know, getting a really deep relaxation state. And then finally,

757
00:40:10,996 --> 00:40:13,916
Speaker 2: TEA stands for tension. What's the tension in your body

758
00:40:13,996 --> 00:40:16,236
Speaker 2: right now? Are you holding it in your shoulders? Are

759
00:40:16,276 --> 00:40:20,316
Speaker 2: you holding it in your gut? Are you not breathing?

760
00:40:21,236 --> 00:40:24,396
Speaker 2: And that can be an indicator of stress, but also

761
00:40:24,476 --> 00:40:27,436
Speaker 2: maybe just a need to let go a little bit,

762
00:40:27,556 --> 00:40:30,716
Speaker 2: exhale a little bit longer, to give your body a

763
00:40:30,756 --> 00:40:32,316
Speaker 2: little bit of release.

764
00:40:32,796 --> 00:40:35,516
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the tension one. I was just driving

765
00:40:35,556 --> 00:40:37,876
Speaker 1: with a friend and there's some traffic and it was

766
00:40:37,876 --> 00:40:39,676
Speaker 1: looking like we're going to get late. And I did

767
00:40:39,756 --> 00:40:42,276
Speaker 1: this moment of noticing that my neck was tight, and

768
00:40:42,316 --> 00:40:45,156
Speaker 1: I was like gripping the steering wheel, and I was like, wait,

769
00:40:45,316 --> 00:40:47,636
Speaker 1: I can soften. I don't need to feel this, right.

770
00:40:47,756 --> 00:40:49,836
Speaker 1: But it was only just through that little short act

771
00:40:49,876 --> 00:40:51,956
Speaker 1: of noticing what my body was doing in that moment

772
00:40:51,996 --> 00:40:54,676
Speaker 1: that I realized, oh my gosh, I'm like holding way

773
00:40:54,676 --> 00:40:56,796
Speaker 1: more anxiety about kind of getting to this place on

774
00:40:56,876 --> 00:40:59,516
Speaker 1: time that I really needed to. But had had that

775
00:40:59,556 --> 00:41:01,796
Speaker 1: moment of noticing, I wouldn't have known how to fix it.

776
00:41:02,396 --> 00:41:06,756
Speaker 2: Yeah, information flows both ways, right, so our bodies can

777
00:41:06,796 --> 00:41:09,956
Speaker 2: send information to our mind. We don't think about working

778
00:41:09,956 --> 00:41:12,076
Speaker 2: from the body app We always think from the top down.

779
00:41:12,516 --> 00:41:14,676
Speaker 2: So it can be really beneficial to work from the

780
00:41:14,716 --> 00:41:17,836
Speaker 2: bottom up. Like if I were to exhale longer, release

781
00:41:17,876 --> 00:41:20,196
Speaker 2: some of the tension in my shoulders, drop my shoulders,

782
00:41:20,636 --> 00:41:22,836
Speaker 2: let go of my face a little bit, let go

783
00:41:22,876 --> 00:41:24,636
Speaker 2: of my belly a little bit. We don't always have

784
00:41:24,676 --> 00:41:27,596
Speaker 2: to hold it in right that that actually may send

785
00:41:27,636 --> 00:41:31,236
Speaker 2: some information to my brain that I'm okay, Because your

786
00:41:31,236 --> 00:41:33,636
Speaker 2: brain is thinking you're not okay if your shoulders are

787
00:41:33,676 --> 00:41:35,356
Speaker 2: up to your ears and you're holding your breath and

788
00:41:35,356 --> 00:41:37,436
Speaker 2: you're sucking it and something is obviously wrong because you're

789
00:41:37,476 --> 00:41:40,556
Speaker 2: bracing for something bad. And so it's good to think

790
00:41:40,596 --> 00:41:44,196
Speaker 2: about our body as sending information to our mind as well,

791
00:41:44,196 --> 00:41:46,436
Speaker 2: and we can have a little bit of wiser efforts

792
00:41:46,476 --> 00:41:46,796
Speaker 2: in that.

793
00:41:47,476 --> 00:41:49,836
Speaker 1: And so now we get to the seventh strategy we

794
00:41:49,876 --> 00:41:52,556
Speaker 1: can use to have wiser effort, and this is to

795
00:41:52,716 --> 00:41:57,116
Speaker 1: watch out for the energy frenemies. What are the energy frenemies.

796
00:41:57,916 --> 00:42:01,236
Speaker 2: Well, earlier on I talked about our strengths, our talents,

797
00:42:01,236 --> 00:42:04,396
Speaker 2: our aptitudes are what I call our genius energy, the

798
00:42:04,476 --> 00:42:09,516
Speaker 2: things that come easily to us, and sometimes that kind

799
00:42:09,516 --> 00:42:13,916
Speaker 2: of spin off and become a frenemy. So an example

800
00:42:13,956 --> 00:42:18,396
Speaker 2: of that is maybe you have a great talent at humor.

801
00:42:19,076 --> 00:42:21,756
Speaker 2: You are always the one that comes into the room

802
00:42:21,756 --> 00:42:27,316
Speaker 2: and can lighten up the space, but when misused, when overused,

803
00:42:27,636 --> 00:42:32,036
Speaker 2: you may start becoming a little bit too lighthearted in

804
00:42:32,076 --> 00:42:35,036
Speaker 2: situations where you actually need to feel a little bit more.

805
00:42:35,756 --> 00:42:39,876
Speaker 2: Or maybe folks that are like super good at helping others,

806
00:42:40,476 --> 00:42:43,556
Speaker 2: the frenemy of being a super helper is maybe you

807
00:42:43,636 --> 00:42:47,236
Speaker 2: never turn that towards yourself and help yourself out. We

808
00:42:47,276 --> 00:42:49,796
Speaker 2: can see frenemies all over the place, and Buddhism they

809
00:42:49,796 --> 00:42:52,756
Speaker 2: call it near enemies, Like the near enemy of compassion

810
00:42:52,836 --> 00:42:56,436
Speaker 2: is pity. And when you start to spot that a

811
00:42:56,476 --> 00:42:59,676
Speaker 2: little bit, you can adjust your energy a little bit

812
00:42:59,756 --> 00:43:02,196
Speaker 2: so that you are using it in the right amount,

813
00:43:02,396 --> 00:43:04,036
Speaker 2: in the right way, at the right time. If you're

814
00:43:04,116 --> 00:43:07,436
Speaker 2: super persistent, there's a time to dial back your persistence.

815
00:43:07,796 --> 00:43:10,556
Speaker 2: If you're super patient, there's a time to be a

816
00:43:10,636 --> 00:43:11,676
Speaker 2: little bit less patient.

817
00:43:12,076 --> 00:43:13,836
Speaker 1: And so how do we know, like what are some

818
00:43:13,876 --> 00:43:16,756
Speaker 1: signals that we might have switched from kind of wise

819
00:43:16,876 --> 00:43:19,876
Speaker 1: energy into the kind of frenemy use of our energy.

820
00:43:20,516 --> 00:43:22,996
Speaker 2: I think it all goes back to values. So one

821
00:43:23,036 --> 00:43:25,716
Speaker 2: way I look at values is there like the banks

822
00:43:25,756 --> 00:43:29,716
Speaker 2: of a river, and your energy is a river that's,

823
00:43:29,796 --> 00:43:32,396
Speaker 2: you know, kind of flowing through, and the values help

824
00:43:32,876 --> 00:43:37,196
Speaker 2: direct that. So you can tell when you're off track

825
00:43:37,236 --> 00:43:39,156
Speaker 2: with your values by a few things I had mentioned

826
00:43:39,196 --> 00:43:41,556
Speaker 2: before that values bring you a lot of vitality. But

827
00:43:41,676 --> 00:43:44,276
Speaker 2: another indicator that you're off track with your values and

828
00:43:44,316 --> 00:43:48,516
Speaker 2: maybe it's turned into a frenemy is regret. The other day,

829
00:43:48,556 --> 00:43:52,636
Speaker 2: I was dropping my son off at school, and I

830
00:43:52,676 --> 00:43:56,116
Speaker 2: really am trying to like keep my schedule figured out

831
00:43:56,156 --> 00:43:58,676
Speaker 2: because I have a tendency to overbook myself and double

832
00:43:58,676 --> 00:44:01,316
Speaker 2: book myself, and I was worried that I had double

833
00:44:01,356 --> 00:44:03,956
Speaker 2: booked a client. And I drop them off at school.

834
00:44:04,156 --> 00:44:06,076
Speaker 2: We're driving. As soon as the car comes into the

835
00:44:06,116 --> 00:44:08,876
Speaker 2: parking lot, I pick up my phone. I start looking

836
00:44:08,916 --> 00:44:11,476
Speaker 2: at my schedule for the day as my son is

837
00:44:11,476 --> 00:44:13,636
Speaker 2: grabbing his backpack and getting out of the car, and

838
00:44:13,676 --> 00:44:16,716
Speaker 2: I look up and he's gone, and I had a

839
00:44:16,956 --> 00:44:21,276
Speaker 2: pain of regret because he was leading and I was

840
00:44:21,316 --> 00:44:25,356
Speaker 2: looking at my phone. Now, this is the acceptance thing,

841
00:44:25,916 --> 00:44:29,076
Speaker 2: you know. Okay, so my friend of me here showed

842
00:44:29,116 --> 00:44:32,076
Speaker 2: up where I was trying to, like be a good therapist,

843
00:44:32,116 --> 00:44:33,716
Speaker 2: but actually was getting on the way of me being

844
00:44:33,756 --> 00:44:37,116
Speaker 2: a good mom. And I need to accept that feeling,

845
00:44:37,316 --> 00:44:40,436
Speaker 2: that discomfort as an indicator that I was out of

846
00:44:40,436 --> 00:44:43,876
Speaker 2: alignment with my values. And when you feel that pain,

847
00:44:44,196 --> 00:44:47,276
Speaker 2: it's just an arrow pointing to a little self correction.

848
00:44:47,756 --> 00:44:50,236
Speaker 2: So next time when I pull into the parking lot,

849
00:44:50,356 --> 00:44:53,116
Speaker 2: keep the phone in the bag until he leaves, and

850
00:44:53,156 --> 00:44:54,916
Speaker 2: I can look him in the eye and say goodbye,

851
00:44:54,956 --> 00:44:57,596
Speaker 2: and I will feel in better alignment. My front of

852
00:44:57,676 --> 00:45:01,356
Speaker 2: me of scheduling won't have gotten in the way. So

853
00:45:01,396 --> 00:45:04,476
Speaker 2: we can use regret is a powerful indicator to help

854
00:45:04,556 --> 00:45:07,556
Speaker 2: us course correct. We can use vitality and values as

855
00:45:07,556 --> 00:45:11,036
Speaker 2: an indicator to course correct. The big question is is basically,

856
00:45:11,036 --> 00:45:12,676
Speaker 2: how do you want to show up in this moment?

857
00:45:13,276 --> 00:45:16,036
Speaker 2: And how can you use your strengths, your gifts, your talents,

858
00:45:16,236 --> 00:45:19,796
Speaker 2: you to help support you in doing that? And I

859
00:45:19,796 --> 00:45:21,076
Speaker 2: think that's wise effort.

860
00:45:22,476 --> 00:45:26,036
Speaker 1: Let's recap the seven strategies Diana covered for finding wiser

861
00:45:26,076 --> 00:45:29,716
Speaker 1: effort in the new year. Number one, get curious about

862
00:45:29,756 --> 00:45:33,476
Speaker 1: your situation, step back, look at yourself with compassion and

863
00:45:33,516 --> 00:45:37,636
Speaker 1: if it helps, journal your thoughts. Tip number two clarify

864
00:45:37,676 --> 00:45:41,436
Speaker 1: your values, what makes life most lifely for you and

865
00:45:41,476 --> 00:45:44,196
Speaker 1: how can you channel more of your energy towards those things.

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00:45:44,916 --> 00:45:48,676
Speaker 1: Strategy number three is one in doubt, seek variation. We

867
00:45:48,756 --> 00:45:51,316
Speaker 1: don't have a built in get unstuck button, but we

868
00:45:51,436 --> 00:45:54,396
Speaker 1: can stay open to new approaches. Tip four is to

869
00:45:54,436 --> 00:45:59,116
Speaker 1: embrace discomfort. Sometimes moving forward means accepting what's imperfect in

870
00:45:59,156 --> 00:46:03,356
Speaker 1: the present moment. Strategy five involves working with your rooster mind.

871
00:46:03,876 --> 00:46:06,716
Speaker 1: Your brain will keep growing, you just need to choose

872
00:46:06,836 --> 00:46:09,716
Speaker 1: when to listen. Tip number six is to tune into

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00:46:09,716 --> 00:46:13,116
Speaker 1: your body. Where are you holding tension. Can you soften

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00:46:13,276 --> 00:46:16,596
Speaker 1: even just a little right now? And our last strategy

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00:46:16,756 --> 00:46:21,036
Speaker 1: number seven is to notice your energy frenemies, even your strengths,

876
00:46:21,036 --> 00:46:24,116
Speaker 1: can drain you if they're running the show unchecked. I

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00:46:24,116 --> 00:46:26,796
Speaker 1: hope these strategies will help you deploy your energy a

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00:46:26,796 --> 00:46:30,116
Speaker 1: bit more effectively in twenty twenty six. Next week, The

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00:46:30,156 --> 00:46:32,636
Speaker 1: Happiness Lab will continue this season on how to get

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00:46:32,676 --> 00:46:36,316
Speaker 1: unstuck by taking a deep look at change, why it

881
00:46:36,356 --> 00:46:39,076
Speaker 1: can feel so intimidating, and how to lean into it.

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00:46:39,396 --> 00:46:41,956
Speaker 1: And we'll get to learn with a brilliant psychologist who

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00:46:41,956 --> 00:46:43,996
Speaker 1: also happens to be my former student.

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00:46:44,516 --> 00:46:47,996
Speaker 2: I'm a fan of exploring change, and I'm recovering when

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00:46:48,076 --> 00:46:49,876
Speaker 2: it comes to my relationship with change.

886
00:46:50,116 --> 00:46:54,196
Speaker 1: You're recovering change, heterange hater, exactly exactly all that next

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00:46:54,196 --> 00:46:57,356
Speaker 1: week on the Happiness Lab with me Doctor laiy Santo's