WEBVTT - Ep. 57: Bear Grease [Render] - Outlaws and Undercover Stings 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.200 My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production of 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.400 the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.680 we render down, dive deeper, and looked behind the scenes 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:31.240 of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear, 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:36.480 American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:43.920 to be as rugged as the places we explore. I 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:46.559 always feel like a kid in here, like I'm just 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.800 poking around to see what man. I really wanted to 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.199 clean this place up before we all came, because like, 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:54.680 when this death starts looking like this, it's like time 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.400 to do something. But you know what I got, I 0:00:57.480 --> 0:00:59.640 got something to say about this where there are no 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.520 when the stables are clean, that's right, But you need 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:04.880 you need a big ox to have a great yeah, 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:09.240 and you need a big one every one of these. 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.080 This is in here because I traveled to Tennessee to 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.640 meet a special undercover agent and I had to take 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.000 this right from the truck. This is in here because 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.680 when I first started uh using mules like years ago, 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.640 somebody told me Vicks vapor rub. If you put Vix 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.000 vapor rub in the nostrils of your mule, that you 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:31.800 could put any type of wild game on their back 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.040 because they couldn't smell it. It turns out sure didn't 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.600 work for me, but I still have to Vicks vapor 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.440 rub So I had to take this out of the 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.760 destroy the other day because the drawer wouldn't shut because 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:47.200 of it. So that's why that's there. That was vapor ses. 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:54.520 I don't know why those are there. It's like a 0:01:54.760 --> 0:02:00.840 bad pawn shop in here, because it's like nothing's organized, 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:02.800 like you know what you're go into the pawn shops 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.640 and you've got kind of rifle through things. That makes 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.919 me feel like you're getting a deal. Like somebody's passed 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:10.600 over this because they didn't want to go through it 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.359 and you and you pick up things and outside of 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.840 the case, you know, like the glass case and the pawnshop, 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.959 exactly pick it up and exactly. I got to introduce 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.760 some some international folks that are staying with us for 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.760 a wedding. What mass pro looks like their mind was blown? 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.079 Really did you go there with him? I took them 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.160 there yesterday. They were also surprised that you carried a 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.080 pocket knife, yes, and they assumed it was a weapon 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.680 and I was like, absolutely not, this is a tool. 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.040 Just a tool. You've got a I got a good 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.840 pocket knife to you when we were you'all know, I 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.799 work at a school and I got a call from 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.160 a parent one time trying to see if they should 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:56.080 arrange for us too. There's some pocket knife train that's 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.680 a little distracting. They to see if they needed to 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:02.239 arrange for my son to meet their son off campus 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.720 for a purchase of a pocket knife, or if I 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.560 was okay with it if they sold this pocket knife 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.600 on campus. The two boys wanted to sell, one being 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:13.360 my our son, and I was like, well, hold on 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:15.440 just a second. I don't know much about this. Let 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:21.200 me get the details. Bear Nucom had had been taking 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.280 pieces of steel, metal, fingernail clippers, anything he could find. 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.560 Old story and right, yeah, he's young. I thought this 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:31.080 happened like this week. No, no schools out. Uh, this 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.440 is like a long time ago. And Bear was taken 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.920 like gathering up any spare piece blades and stuff or 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.960 fingernail clippers that was a pretty popular one. And he 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.680 what did he have? He had a grinder, electric grinder 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.360 that like a wheel grinder. He was like nine years 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:55.320 old and making Yeah. Actually I had to talk to 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.720 him about ethics inside of business ownership, because I'm pretty 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.040 sure he's sold a pocket knife that he'd ground out 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.680 of a saws all blade and wrapped para cord around 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.440 the handle some kid at school for like twenty bucks. 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:17.159 I'm pretty sure that, Yeah, I say, principal of the school. 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:22.159 So I have to write all these parents and say hey, yeah, 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:23.440 this is years ago. And I had to write him 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.000 and say, hey, I'm really sorry about there's apparently like 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.680 an off market deal going on. We weren't aware of it. 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.600 We were aware that Bear was making knives. We thought 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.160 it was a cute thing for him to do at 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.920 the house. We are not encouraging enterprise at the school. 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.719 We will refund you your money. How are these transactions happening? Okay, 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.359 you're bringing cash to school. Talk to him about it, 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.159 as I said, I said, Man, I said, don't you 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.440 think that's pretty high for the what you the amount 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:52.599 of time you had making this, and what you've paid 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.400 to get the raw materials. You know, you kind of 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.919 got to take into consideration. Your customer, too, likes is 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:01.960 pretty pretty pride. He's like, Dad, they mean they're paying it, 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:06.400 they'll pay that. And I said, I said, Man, I 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.440 don't know what to tell you. I'm out of stock. Yeah, 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.520 you don't pay for them out of hair. Cut out 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:14.680 that that's cut off your head. You pay for the 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:19.240 expertise of the man cutty. So was it like, hey, 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:23.680 meet me around back and it was the play. Unfortunately, 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.920 Bear thought I'd be proud of him, and it wasn't. 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:29.240 There was a little bit in me that was like, 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.720 well that's kind of entrepreneurial, you know. I wasn't a 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:33.960 little proud, And I told Clay, I don't really know, 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.800 Like I clearly have a responsibility as a school administrator 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:38.640 to not let there be the cell of weapons and 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:47.560 our property. Yeah, well, welcome to the Bear Grease friender man. 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:51.360 This is a exciting one we have. I have with me. 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.880 I have Josh Langbridge, filmmaker to my left wearing a 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:59.440 nice believer hat. Yeah it looks good. It looks good. Uh. 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:04.560 To his left, my wife Missy Newcombe always good to 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:09.440 be here. To your left, Brent Reeves shout out on 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.479 the podcast this week, Did I did? I liked that 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.560 it was good and used accurately. Yeah, I thought it was. 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:22.440 It really was. Brent's beards a little trimmer, a little 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:29.240 close cropped summer I did yesterday and Bailey walks downstairs, Daddy, 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:37.040 your glasses are bigger, same glasses, beard smaller. I had 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.279 this revelation just a second ago about Brent Reeves. He 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.760 has a way of making you feel like you're with 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.320 him when you're just listening to him. I was thinking 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.120 about seeing him today, are with him today? But I 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:51.760 was like, I had this feeling of like very familiar 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:56.520 about this yesterday, no earlier today, anticipating seeing Brent, thinking 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:58.800 it didn't feel like it had been two months since 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.359 i'd seen him. You know what I mean, what do 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.560 you attribute this to? I don't know, velvet pipes. Oh, 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:19.640 it just brings you right into the moment, to these feelings. 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:25.560 Now to bricelet not Isaac Neil Isaac. We now we 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:32.280 introduced you back in February as the assistant producer Beargrease. 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.360 Now we could I think I have the authority to 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:40.680 change your title. You could be assistant to the producer 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:48.120 Man Isaac. Isaac has a lot of fingerprints all over 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.520 the bar Grease podcast. Um. Isaac does a whole lot, 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.480 a whole lot for meataturing for us, but on this 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.320 one in particular, and we'll go. I think we'll go 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:02.040 into the origins of why h how this came about 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.360 that we decided to tell the story that we told 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.960 over the last three episodes. Um, but Isaac was there 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.320 right in the middle of it, and Isaac was actually 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:15.000 the one who said you could do it like this anyway. 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:19.120 We'll talk about that later. To your left, Gary newcom Gary, 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.120 good to see man. Yeah, I'm looking forward to see 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:27.440 what Gary has to say about all this. Um oh, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:32.400 my lands, I look forward to anything. Yeah, me too. Hey, 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.000 I want to before we dive into deep here, and 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.600 I really wanted just like straight up talk about the podcast. 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:41.160 So last time you guys got weren't involved in the 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.400 Render because we were in Montana and so we didn't 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.920 really talk about you know, there were just three of 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.600 us there. Bear was there, and so we didn't talk 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.520 about episode two. So I want to get I want 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:58.520 to do like a full encompassing, full encompassing conversation, have 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:04.000 one about episode two. We had a really good Render 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:07.360 about episode one where we where we we talked, well 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.760 we can we can come. Can we just say something 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.240 about the Render crew last time? Because I feel like 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.120 we always get to evaluate them I'd like to evaluate 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:19.920 Clay Nuclam's statements in that podcast. I learned that Clay 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:27.560 sent our barely walking Sun. I'm Tod and it's chef, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:33.000 and I in Yeah, just news to me. Your parenting 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:38.240 tactics always amazing me. I trust you, and then I 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:45.360 hearn't isn't it? Isn't it? A proverb says training train 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:46.840 a child up in the way he should go, and 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.400 then send him towards the bear. It's something like that, 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.040 is what were you thinking? Though? I think about how 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.559 how much I trust there, and I tell people all 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.000 the time, like we don't have to worry. I try 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.679 Clay if he says it's okay, it's okay. And then 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.040 I hear that story and I'm thinking, well it ended 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.680 up being okay. It was it was just a small bear, 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:11.760 and that a small innocuus bear. Yeah, I think about 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.360 this here here, take comfort in this. That's the story 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.040 that you know about. I know, yeah, you shouldn't let 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:24.840 that go. Let well where I was going to go though, 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.120 before we get into our big discussion, you'll see these 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.560 books right here, the stack of books yesterday, a couple 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:34.439 of days ago, I looked across all my bookshelves and 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.000 was trying to It all started just when I I 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.920 saw a book. I saw this book Biophilia. Yeah, this 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.680 book right here, and I was like, oh man, I 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.600 hadn't seen that book in a while, and it's got 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.400 all kind of handwritten notes in it and stuff. And 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.800 I was like, this book was really influential to me. 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:53.560 And I was like, you know what, there was another 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.800 book that was really influential. And I started looking for 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.800 Ian Tattersall's Becoming Human and I was like, you know what, 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.800 another three books that we're influencing. Anyway, I started, I 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.440 made a stack of what I think is the most 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:12.440 influential books to date. Yes, Josh, where's the Bible? That 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.439 was gonna be the thing I was gonna say next 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.160 aside from the Bible here, okay, yeah, would it make 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:23.040 you feel better? It would make you feel more comfortable? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:27.720 definitely very true story books not written by you know 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:32.520 that aren't the Bible are inspired? Okay, but all these books. 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.839 So there's Wild Sports, there's Boone by Robert Morgan, there's 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.760 my father Daniel Boone, which those two books together we're 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.000 really unique. And as I just always thought that book 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:48.680 written by Nathan Boone, was about his father. The interview 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.160 that he did Nathan Boone did with his dad was 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:55.120 really wild. Uh. There's a couple of non history hunting books. 0:11:55.400 --> 0:12:00.880 This book Atomic Habits. This is like a pop culture 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.079 like New York Times bestselling self help, quick self help 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.200 kind of book that I typically wouldn't read. But man, 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.360 I think about this book all the time. Atomic Habits. Man, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.800 it was really good. Tiny changes. And then Sand County 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.880 Almanac by Aldo Leopold, which I read in college. Dr 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.640 David Miller who was on the Barker's podcast one time 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:22.760 he had us read that and little did I know 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:28.600 that that book would be influential. And then uh, Boys Adrift, man, goalie, 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:30.640 if you have if you have boys, you got to 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.200 read that book, Boys Adrift, And it talks about five 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:37.640 factors driving the growing epidemic of unmotivated boys and underachieving 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.520 young men. It's a really good book. Um. And then 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.520 this book right here, the account of Cabeza de Vaca. 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:49.480 These guys wash your mouth. That was so so this 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:54.840 is the account of the first Europeans that made it 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:59.760 in land into North America. So uh, it was Cabeza 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.760 dive and Uh. I mean they were the first guys 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.720 that like went in land, and he describes It's been 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.800 a while since I've read it, but they described the 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.520 tribes that they encountered, but they described the topography and 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:20.120 the land, and that's This book is a document that 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:25.440 tells current biographers of the of of the just what 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.400 this place looked like in terms of vegetation and stuff. 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:33.600 And it's really interesting. You know, I hadn't read this 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:38.360 book in several years. Um, I know, I'm just saying 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:43.040 I've kind of forgotten exactly Cabeza de Vaca landed in 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:49.120 Florida in fifty Yeah, first guys, pretty wild man. I 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.640 remember there was a story in here about a man 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.199 getting killed crossing the river. Oh, I do remember. They 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.640 came to this raging river. So they had this like 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.680 regiment of men that they had had animals with them 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.480 and pigs with them, and like they had to carry 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:06.920 everything they would need to survive. And they came to 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.880 this raging river and there was this young guy that 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.320 was like, we can cross here, and everybody else was like, man, 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.079 I don't think we can. And this dude jumped in 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:19.000 the river with his horse and tried to cross this river, 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:24.720 and he drowned. He and his horse drowned, and they 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:26.880 went and found his body like a mile and a 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:32.440 half downstream. Buried the man and ate the horse. Pretty serious. 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:41.760 Um so these two books by beargreas Hero and Alumni 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.480 Brooks Blevins, The History of the Ozarks The Old Ozark's 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.800 Part One. Isaac's read it so it really is it? 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:50.680 It's so good. Yeah, wherever you live, you ought to 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.800 know about the history where you live. This one is 0:14:53.920 --> 0:15:00.440 really one of my favorites. Arkansas, Arkansas by Brooks Abilies 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:03.800 and good Old Boys defined the state really incredible, good yep. 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.520 And then we're almost done. And then uh, Wild Sports 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:12.240 by Frederick Gerstalker and then Against the Grain Richard Manning. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:17.240 This book is uh, kind of controversial, but guess what, 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:25.120 So it's Burgher's podcast he forgot too really important. But 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:29.680 oh yeah, this one, Dad Took Off Meat Eater by 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.280 Steve Rinella. I read this years ago, long before I 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.440 would have known Steve. This was in my list and 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.000 it was just it's just a kind of a memoir. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.680 It's just like stories from his past. And I remember 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.280 really being impacted by this book and just kind of 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.640 the the musings inside of it. And then the last 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.160 book that was in the stack was this book called 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.640 The Life of Elijah by A. W. Pink. So Elijah 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.520 a guy in the in the Bible, wild guy man. 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.440 I love to lie you because he was he was 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.800 from he was from a region. Basically, he was like 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.040 a hillbilly in the Middle East for real, like they 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.160 they were. They They're very little known about where he 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.560 came from, except that the place he came from was 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:20.840 like a wild, rural, rugged place. And he in the 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.320 indication is that like he was like that, you know, 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.160 the people of the hills reflected the nature of their environment. 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.160 They were rough and rugged. Solomon Stern, dwelling in rude villages, 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.640 subsisting by keeping flocks of sheep, hardened by an open 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:40.119 air life, Dressed in a cloak of camel's hair, accustomed 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.920 to spending most of the time in solitude, Possessed of 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:46.560 a sinewy strength which enabled him to endure great physical strain, 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.560 Elijah would present a market contrast with the town dwellers 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.320 in the Lowland valleys, and especially he would be distinguished 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.760 from the pampered courtiers of the Palace because he interacted 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.440 with the King's so old. Elijah W. Pink. I don't 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.360 really know where to start other than to say this 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:11.280 series has been the most enjoyable of any podcast series 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:17.359 I've ever built. And it's been because I have always 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:22.480 been had a deep sense of place inside of my life, 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:28.040 like I like being from somewhere that we've kind of 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.399 just been from there a long time. And so the 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.959 fact that this is these were not stories that I 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.960 was reading about in a book, even though I wasn't there, 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.359 and I didn't know these men well. I mean on 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:43.800 a personal level, I did not know these men. Well. 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.480 I was just a kid growing up while these guys 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.600 were kind of in their prime. And I mean I 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:56.359 probably haven't seen these men since I was eighteen years 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:58.000 old or something, you know, So it's not like I 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.560 was close to these guys. What it kind of felt 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:05.840 like and and and and and what and I think 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.760 and I've attributed this to Dad this so many times, 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.840 but when Dad would so Dad was a banker, and 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.960 I remember he used to take us all over to 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.520 sea customers that had killed a big deer or for 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.200 whatever reason. We remember multiple times going to people's houses 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.280 way out in the country and it was just I mean, 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.719 you probably wouldn't have known that that was impacting, and 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.080 I probably didn't know it was impacting until later in 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.560 my life. But you know, you were kind of you 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:42.679 enjoyed these rural people and these stories. And then you 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.520 told me stories about Charlie and Louis Dell and and 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.080 we we You did take me to a bowshoot out 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.399 at their house when they had a catfish fry and 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.840 a bow shoot in a mule ride one time. Now 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.400 that was when you were an adulto, not with Louis 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:01.160 del Yeah. Yeah, it just so I enjoyed going back 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.639 to where I'm from and minding out these stories for 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:10.800 these guys. So no, and I'm very interested in Like 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.960 I thought it was great last time when Brent was like, no, 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.679 I'm not endeared to these guys. Um, that's why I 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:20.919 have you here. I don't have you. I don't have 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.560 you here too. You know, tell me something I want 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.440 to hear, um. But I think it would be good 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:31.000 to have a discussion about the different components of it, 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.800 because I think sometimes it's easy to hear one well 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:37.800 I don't think this. I know this, and I'm not 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.480 saying that's the case here, but a lot of times 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:45.159 inside of a robust story, people get you can get 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.480 hung up on one thing and you hear that throughout 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.080 the whole thing, when maybe that's not even exactly what 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.080 you're even talking about. Do you understand what I'm saying? 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.000 And inside of this series, I tried to make a 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:03.240 distinction between two different things. We use the words differently, 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:09.240 but poachers and then this outlaw archetype. You know, so 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.439 there's a there's a difference, Like I don't I'm not 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:17.240 endeared to poaching at all. Yeah, I mean, like, that's 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.080 that's not what this is about. It was more about 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:26.439 why an endearment to an outlaw archetype, which in my 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.680 opinion is an undeniable thing that's inside of our culture, 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:32.960 It doesn't mean that every single person responds to that 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.679 the same way. So I just want to yeah, so 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.840 it's like not everybody's Yeah, there might be something inside 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.240 of someone that really responds to that, and maybe less 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.480 than something else, but pretty much undeniable that in our culture, 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.200 that that is something that's happening. How do we start this? 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:55.480 I sent a message to Clay and said Part three 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.880 was fire fire Fire with a side of fire fire 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.320 fire and that It's like I felt like I was 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.760 watching the c s I on on on podcasts, But 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:14.439 what a fascinating, fascinating, fascinating story. It always amazes me 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.720 that that these kind of stories happen and nobody really 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.040 knows about it. You know, who whatever known about Louis 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.840 Dale and Charlie Edwards and the game and fish staying 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.240 operation that was going on with them. I love that 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:30.640 someone reached out to you and said, listen, I got 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.439 a little insider information for you that that was that 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:36.360 was pretty cool. But just to listen to him talk 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:41.719 about his interactions with Louis Dale, I mean it was 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:47.639 it was clear that that I love the relational aspect 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.640 of Louis Dale. I mean, even even with someone like that, 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.760 he he legitimately just wanted to help this guy. You know, 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.000 there's a side of I've met guys like Louis Dale, 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.480 and there's a side of that wants that they want 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.120 to take you under their wing. And at the same 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:08.399 I knew a guy in the construction business that that 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:10.359 that kind of took me under his wing when I 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:13.640 when I had a construction company, and uh, I knew 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.040 I didn't want to necessarily be like him, but I 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.400 appreciated what he had to offer me. And I think 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:21.399 there's a lot of people that that's part of the 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.720 thing that they appreciated about Louis Delle is his his 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.960 care and consideration and his his taking people under his wing. 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:31.800 I mean, he was he was a he was an 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:36.119 essence of provider for the for a lot of people 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:39.000 in some way or another. But I thought, I thought 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.480 this last part of the podcast was really really fascinating 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:47.600 to hear um. I forgot what's the gentleman's name us, Yeah, 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:51.960 rust Um talk about his interactions with them, and and 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:56.640 also the game and fishes desire to just really they 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.119 really wanted to catch them red handed with something that 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:03.000 just couldn't seem to to do it. Clearly something was 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:06.160 going on there that that there were kind of protected 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:09.600 somehow from from that ever happening. Well, it was to 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:13.560 me it was so interesting talking to Russ because there 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:17.760 was actually another story that was told about a totally 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:23.760 different story of them and an undercover guy that Louis 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:27.680 Dell took and it we know there was multiple stings 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:30.480 and so I only talked to one guy. So this 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:34.160 this you know, happened according to the family, Louis Dell 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:38.280 took a guy and he called up a gobbler for 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:41.040 the guy before a season, and the guy wouldn't shoot it, 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:44.800 and uh, you know, he made in Louis Dell's mind, 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:46.440 made an excuse why he wouldn't shoot it, and that 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:48.720 all of a sudden was a red flag that this guy, 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:53.000 you know, all the different circumstances that surrounded it. And 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:55.919 Louis Dell came out of that one confident that he 0:23:55.960 --> 0:24:00.199 had entertained an undercover officer. And uh, and then in 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:04.280 this situation with Russ, you know, clearly he was tipped 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:08.040 off by someone on the inside about it, which was 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:11.840 it was reason to believe, but he also came out 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:16.879 of it apparently extremely confident that Russ was an undercover agent, 0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:20.240 because he he told that to Andy just so strongly, 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:23.359 just like, yeah, for sure this guy was another coover agent. 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:25.359 And the way that I thought about it is you 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:29.240 only get so many strikes at somebody. I mean, it's 0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:32.120 just like, do they just keep sending the guy from 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:41.400 another state. I'm from Kentucky in March, where you only 0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:46.400 get so many strikes at these guys and pretty soon 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:51.520 you just run out of options. And what Russ said though, 0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:55.960 was so valuable. I felt like when he said, how 0:24:56.000 --> 0:25:00.560 hard is it to to to not be able to 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:04.719 catch a a guy that's got so much land and 0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:09.159 got and wardens with so many limitations, And basically he 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:11.920 said off air, he said, guys like that are almost 0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:15.840 impossible to catch. I mean, he just said, he just 0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:18.960