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Speaker 1: Celebrity club.

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Speaker 2: Coral.

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Speaker 1: Lunch was delicious. Mmmm, with those frankfurt Is made from

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Speaker 1: a little village in Germany, Owen with the poet brandy sauce.

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Speaker 2: M Mmm.

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Speaker 1: Luckily I didn't stay in my cuffand made especially for

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Speaker 1: me by Eve, said Laurentz. Oh, I mean not, you've said, Laurent.

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Speaker 3: I don't pretend I didn't hear that. Andre, Please be

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Speaker 3: careful not to spill your vodka on my seventeenth century

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Speaker 3: armoir shed Lewis Cators.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of can we have a little more of that

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Speaker 1: gray goose? Where's that little pool boy you keep around?

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Speaker 1: Jappin de Latin.

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Speaker 3: Klaus, Klaus, please come in here, paw Andre, a little

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Speaker 3: more David of vodka while we sit in discuss sixteenth

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Speaker 3: century French design. Andre, you look absolutely ravishing in that

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Speaker 3: kaf tan that I will talk about. Who designed it

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Speaker 3: for you?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Stop it, Coral, You know I only do it

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Speaker 1: to impress you. You look so glamorous today. Your cheeks

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Speaker 1: are shining in a way they never have. Have you

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Speaker 1: been drinking more Frankfurt tea hah.

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Speaker 3: That's very kind of you, but a careful talking about

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Speaker 3: my appearance, Andre, it's a slippery slope.

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Speaker 2: Here it's some more dolphin fragrin.

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Speaker 1: This is delicious. What do you think of that little boy,

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Speaker 1: Mark Jacob's by the way.

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Speaker 3: I think he has a beautiful brain and a tiny cock.

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Speaker 1: I bet you would like to eat that up me

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Speaker 1: I stained from sex.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm also quite sad and rodely, so I don't

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Speaker 3: think that I would eat his tiny little cock either,

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Speaker 3: But I do think he has a lot of talent

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Speaker 3: for someone who's so small and pathetic. I love that

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Speaker 3: we have our own chasls and footstools and arm rusts

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Speaker 3: and armed stools.

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Speaker 1: The only thing that would make this better if Lee

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Speaker 1: Radswell came and joined us for a part of delicious

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Speaker 1: delicious volkle with coffee.

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Speaker 3: Oh you haven't hurt andre I brought her out of

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Speaker 3: my will. I didn't like the way that she highlighted

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Speaker 3: her hat at the nineteen ninety four Boonsbluck and Gala.

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Speaker 2: And so I stopped talking to her.

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Speaker 1: Well suits her.

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Speaker 3: Let us call yourself's on more vodgun crumpet than fall

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Speaker 3: asleep on separate chassis in separate wings of mine house.

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Speaker 1: Oh Carl, that sounds like a magnificent The fabulous idea.

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Speaker 2: Who's that knocking at the door. It's all your friends.

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Speaker 2: You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and we've got books

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Speaker 2: and a bottle of wine.

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Speaker 1: Hill. It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's memoirs Martini, celebtly poof Club. Read it

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Speaker 2: while it's hot. Celebrity poof Club, Tell your secrets.

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Speaker 1: We won't talk celebrity books.

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Speaker 2: No boys are a loud celebrity book say it Loud

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Speaker 2: and clouds Celebrity book Club.

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Speaker 1: Buzz me in. I brought the queer vow.

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Speaker 2: Hey, best friend, how the hell are you? Wow? So

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Speaker 2: good to see It's so.

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Speaker 1: It's been almost two weeks.

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Speaker 2: I haven't been able to breathe this whole time.

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Speaker 1: No As, I just told you I was having trouble

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Speaker 1: breathing from higher altitude because I was in this see you.

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Speaker 2: That was your time in Mexico. It must have been

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Speaker 2: so crazy. It's such a culture.

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Speaker 1: Chock sombo poblanos and eating tacos and my niece tons

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Speaker 1: of my yeas.

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Speaker 2: What do you call me?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I just got back two days ago from Wait.

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Speaker 2: I know you were in Cdmax. Honestly, I haven't talked

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Speaker 2: about it and I can't wait to discuss it on

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Speaker 2: the via totally. Yeah, just a quick previum. When you

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Speaker 2: were in part of Iarta, which is known as kind

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Speaker 2: of a gay hub, was it so like you're walking

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Speaker 2: down the street and there's like muscle bears everywhere in

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Speaker 2: thongs and your mom is just like, now, wait a minute,

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Speaker 2: hold on, Well.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing. I was planning for that, but ultimately

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Speaker 1: we had two days in part of Arta and I

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Speaker 1: did get food poisoning, so that took up one of

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Speaker 1: the days. And we were staying in La Zona Hotel

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Speaker 1: and the gay section is Romantica, so.

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Speaker 2: We were in the hotel area.

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Speaker 1: We were in the hotel area that was a little

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Speaker 1: more like Timeshare Buddha house Hunters International. You just walk

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Speaker 1: out onto like a pool that looks at a beach,

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Speaker 1: and it was a little more like local Mexicans there

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Speaker 1: on vacation Port of Arta. But my plane ride was

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Speaker 1: me making friends with a gay twink from Toronto being like, so,

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Speaker 1: are you also going to Perta Vierta for Pride And

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Speaker 1: I was like kind of yes and no. So my

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Speaker 1: flight was very gay then like pool throwing up. Then

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Speaker 1: next day we just like beached. And but my mom

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Speaker 1: did sit next to lesbians on the plane.

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Speaker 2: Back, whoa cool.

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Speaker 1: So ultimately I didn't get that much a gay action

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Speaker 1: in Port of Vrata, which is kind of sad.

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Speaker 2: But it's kind of shocking.

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Speaker 1: But next time, literally next time, I was more into

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Speaker 1: like soaking up the rays in the ocean.

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Speaker 2: But that's what it's all about, recharge and reconnection roots

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Speaker 2: with your Spanish roots exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I also did watch Ultimatum while I was sick,

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Speaker 1: in Verta, which we'll also get into.

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Speaker 2: Which is for those of you haven't seen, it's the

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Speaker 2: new lesbian reality show on Netflix. And if you're not watching,

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Speaker 2: you're crazy.

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Speaker 1: Age, you're literally insane.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of gay, Speaking of gay.

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Speaker 1: We today are doing a gay guy that almost is

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Speaker 1: so important that we really intimidated to do this.

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Speaker 2: Book no, and we've been putting it off actually out

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Speaker 2: of fear because it was like too big and important

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Speaker 2: of a book to do, and he died very recently

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Speaker 2: early last year, and it was like, oh, if you

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Speaker 2: do it too soon after his death, it feels like

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Speaker 2: we're kind of jumping on the death bandwagon.

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Speaker 1: And you don't want to be one of those people

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Speaker 1: like when I don't know, like some kind of like

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Speaker 1: seventies folk musician dies and then every single person is

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Speaker 1: posting them and you're like, oh, I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: Like slash me when anyone dies and everyone is mostly

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Speaker 2: pretending that they were so pivotal for their personal journey.

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Speaker 1: Japanese composer who died recently, Oh.

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Speaker 2: I know, we were talking about all these people coming

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Speaker 2: out of the work, just being like he actually was

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Speaker 2: the master. Yes, honestly, he was the fucking master.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, nothing would have happened without him.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, it's like, I never heard your

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Speaker 2: ass mention him before ever.

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Speaker 1: Never heard you playing his scores.

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Speaker 2: When I went over scores. So when you walk it back,

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Speaker 2: fake gas, bitch, And we're.

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Speaker 1: Not fake anyway. But we also didn't want to walk

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Speaker 1: over the dead and say something that was disrespectful and

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Speaker 1: not that we are going to say something that's.

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Speaker 2: Now we can sort of have fun, yes, which he

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Speaker 2: would have wanted. He would have wanted us to make

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Speaker 2: fun of him in his totality, and it won't seem

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Speaker 2: crass because.

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Speaker 1: A titan we are talking about.

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Speaker 2: Other than Andre and his memoir the Chiffon Trenches title,

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Speaker 2: so many people do not try to have a fun

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Speaker 2: title anymore with their memoirs. Okay, it's my life story

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Speaker 2: story that or my life and stories. Yeah, or it's

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Speaker 2: something you know, really serious. What's demimores again, like this

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Speaker 2: on the undone circle or something that creative. No, it's

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Speaker 2: like inside out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, inside out, something that like can go with a

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Speaker 1: black and white photo.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And Cheffon trenches. I mean, honey, you're in it.

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Speaker 1: You're already there, you're in the No, my mom on

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Speaker 1: the plant. She looked over at me and just started

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Speaker 1: cracking up with the name the Cheffon trunches, and then

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Speaker 1: she stole this book from me.

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Speaker 2: Wow, even moms want to get their hands on.

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Speaker 1: It, that's how good it is, even moms.

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Speaker 2: I'll just say that this book is phenomenon, This bursting

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Speaker 2: with detail.

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Speaker 1: What's so interesting, incredibly self aware. I cried at the end.

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Speaker 1: Every sentence is so rich.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, his lust for detail and history it's

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Speaker 2: what made his career because he's an absolute student of

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Speaker 2: everything that basically anyone has ever worn, ever, ever like,

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Speaker 2: and every single page of this book is him describing

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Speaker 2: someone walking in a room and just be like, and

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Speaker 2: she was wearing the chanel cape with the Balancioga boots

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Speaker 2: and then four short skirt with these incredible and there's

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Speaker 2: like random French words like like bucolanti.

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Speaker 1: Oh, well she only wore bucolanti and then what's so

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Speaker 1: beautiful of also like how this book is framed is

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Speaker 1: every single event, which there's a million events in this book.

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Speaker 1: He describes his outfit and how it rises of like

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Speaker 1: how much money he was making and the weight, which

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Speaker 1: she's very upfront about, very very upfront, you know. And

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Speaker 1: from the beginning, his mother, who he has a very

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Speaker 1: tense relationship with, takes him to get a church suit

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Speaker 1: made in DC and he gets like this beauty I

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Speaker 1: was already.

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Speaker 2: And he wants the he wants the Beatles cut, he

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Speaker 2: wants it to be and then the mom is being like, no,

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Speaker 2: like church, yeah, it's church.

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Speaker 1: But they came up to a medium which I was like,

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Speaker 1: it kind of actually sounds like the suits of today

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Speaker 1: were we're going not like so massive but not so skinny,

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Speaker 1: and it's this double breasted, playing with shape suit and

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Speaker 1: she was like, this is a church suit.

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Speaker 2: And she was still a little bit like you're being

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Speaker 2: too faggotty walking into a church, like with the way

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Speaker 2: you're strutting in your suit.

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Speaker 1: So basically he looks. He starts living with his grandmother

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Speaker 1: because his mother. I mean the way he talks about

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Speaker 1: his mother that first broke my heart and he goes,

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Speaker 1: my mother divorced my father because she thought she could

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Speaker 1: get something better and then the man that she thought

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Speaker 1: she would marry after married someone else younger, and then

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Speaker 1: she was bitter for the rest of her life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The mom is kind of a sad, bitter bitch.

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Speaker 2: And she literally the only time she touches him and

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Speaker 2: his whole life is when he gets sick once and

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Speaker 2: she like gives him a hug very briefly. And I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, he internalized the correct lessons from that, which

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Speaker 2: were like, you should be well yes and no. I

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Speaker 2: think it made him very outgoing and loving and generous

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Speaker 2: of spirit. Yah. And I think he never wanted to, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, to cut people out like she did. But

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Speaker 2: of course, you know, that lack of physical affection coupled

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Speaker 2: with of course the molestation that he experienced.

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Speaker 1: Led to basically kind of and I would say the

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Speaker 1: Aighth crisis led to him being basically a.

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Speaker 2: Sexual Yeah, for his entire life. Oh, there's so much sadness,

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Speaker 2: and we'll get to that, but let's let's start with

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Speaker 2: the sort of main th rest of the book. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so grows up Jim Crow, South Okay, Durham.

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Speaker 1: North Carolina. So he stayed. His grandmother is also like

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Speaker 1: so warm and like I feel like knows he has

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Speaker 1: higher aspirations than you know, staying in.

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Speaker 2: Durham, Akay, she knew he was gay?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, which is it? I feel like it's kind

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Speaker 1: of an iconic grandmother trait.

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Speaker 2: If your little grandson is watching the Jackie O White

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Speaker 2: House Tour on your little black and white TV in

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one and he's like so excited about it,

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Speaker 2: then you know, yeah, you know. But this was one

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Speaker 2: of his first, I think, introductions to the power of fashion,

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Speaker 2: and he became obsessed with Jackie O and she was

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Speaker 2: like an early icon for him.

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Speaker 1: That house tour, I feel like, influenced so many people.

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Speaker 2: So he's talking about there, he was there, she stood,

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Speaker 2: her hair perfectly coft and curled, and her shamy no

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Speaker 2: line for line copy of an original Dior from Paris.

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Speaker 2: It's like he's already knowing exactly what she's in. She

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Speaker 2: spoke of the White House with knowledge and eloquence. Then

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Speaker 2: I learned the word the Parisian linen firm had donated

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Speaker 2: a long white tablecloths in a state dining room, hand

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Speaker 2: embroidered and gold thread. I learned that she wanted simple

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Speaker 2: glasses for water and wine. She found them in Virginia.

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Speaker 2: She spoke of the stand for white moldings painted white

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Speaker 2: from nineteen oh two. And it's like, I was actually

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Speaker 2: kind of shocked that Jackie Oh was so knowledgeable about

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Speaker 2: every detail of the White House. I've never seen this tour.

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Speaker 1: Well, but she's from high society. Yeah, yea gray gardens.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen that.

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Speaker 2: I actually literally have.

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's very you to have never seen

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Speaker 1: grey gardens. It's like this actually like a gonic documentary.

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Speaker 1: You have to check it out.

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Speaker 2: Well, I know it's part of gay history. Whatever.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen them? Paris is burning?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Actually I have seen Paris, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Very And I haven't seen Star Wars so, which.

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Speaker 2: Is also because the robot is gay.

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Speaker 1: I ultimately, Jackie O modernized, she was girl modernized. The

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Speaker 1: talk about White House post you know.

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Speaker 2: And then and then he goes you know my aunts

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Speaker 2: copied her style according to their budget, with pillbox hats

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Speaker 2: and elegant chainstrap handbags gloves. Of course, all respectful negro

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Speaker 2: church ladies were inspired by Jackie Kennedy, and it's like

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Speaker 2: there's this connection, of course, and you see him growing

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Speaker 2: up and seeing all of the women around him in

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Speaker 2: his community wearing their church best, and that's where he

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Speaker 2: talks about the church fashion shows later on, of course,

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Speaker 2: reminded me of Top Model cycle set when Tyra introduces

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Speaker 2: them to like black church fashion, and Jade like wins

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Speaker 2: the challenge because she walks with like the most personality

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Speaker 2: and she's like spinning in her cape. But then Joni

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Speaker 2: kinds of turns it.

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Speaker 1: Out and giving her like giving like such sho weird speech,

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Speaker 1: being like, so there's this thing called like the church.

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Speaker 1: We're like old fathers black women wearing hats and like

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Speaker 1: the all the Christian white girls Like what what?

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so he's already like he's making connections, like

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Speaker 2: you see his his ability for synthesis is already like

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Speaker 2: so apparent. He's just like I'm seeing Jackie, I'm seeing

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Speaker 2: the hats, I'm seeing my mom, I'm seeing the Grandmama.

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing how like this history and culture is coming

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Speaker 2: together in the way people express themselves, and I want

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Speaker 2: to chronicle it and be a part of it.

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Speaker 1: Well and seeing the world. Especially when he notices that

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Speaker 1: she has this linen tablecloth, it was like the whole

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Speaker 1: society thing. It wasn't just fashion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was like it was manners, it was history.

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Speaker 1: Later on, when he's at all these people's houses, it's

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Speaker 1: like it's all about like getting a scarf and a

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Speaker 1: suitcase and a dressing table and the cups that you're drinking,

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Speaker 1: the pot of coffee that Carl Felt sent you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the whole world.

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Speaker 2: It's an entire lifestyle. And of course we don't have

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Speaker 2: that anymore. And as Andrea famously once said, we're living

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Speaker 2: in a famine of beauty.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean. And the end is literally what we

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Speaker 1: say every day. The end of this book is him

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Speaker 1: just being like Grace Cottington is freelance. Like that's the

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Speaker 1: saddest thing I've.

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Speaker 2: Ever heard of my life, really, and it.

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Speaker 1: Really is, and like people getting just like basement goodbye parties.

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Speaker 2: Okay. What I did not realize that he does not

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Speaker 2: talk about in this book is his later in life career,

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Speaker 2: like right, because this book came out like right before

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Speaker 2: he died, But he doesn't mention that. So he talks

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Speaker 2: about Scad at the end and he's like, and I

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Speaker 2: love Scott and Scots so important to me and I

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Speaker 2: would die for Scad. But did you know that he

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Speaker 2: was also artistic director for Zappos?

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Speaker 1: Stop?

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Speaker 2: How fucking random is that job?

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Speaker 1: Or just a director for Zappos?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And I'm like, what what is like you're directing

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Speaker 2: the photo shoots, Like that's product photography of just like

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Speaker 2: one keen shoes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like the entire patron front of the pond Daniel.

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Speaker 2: He was also advisor to will I Am Well because

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Speaker 2: I saw him thinking him in the acknowledgements and I

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Speaker 2: was like.

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Speaker 1: Thank you will I Am for believing Yeah, isn't will

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Speaker 1: I Am so Zappos?

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Speaker 2: Yeah no, that's making sense. But I'm like William for

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Speaker 2: believing in you. It's like you were already so successful

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Speaker 2: and famously well.

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Speaker 1: But it's about the younger set, right, And I think

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Speaker 1: also like connecting with younger black celebrities after spending like such.

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Speaker 2: A long time with the white white.

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Speaker 1: Woman world and being so like oh, yes, Anna, when

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Speaker 1: Toro look for your phone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll get to that s as part of

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Speaker 2: his falling out with Anna.

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Speaker 1: But so he goes he you know, can.

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Speaker 2: We just talk coop at his first coat when he

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Speaker 2: when he first les North Carolina and goes to.

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Speaker 1: Like the army coat, he goes to Brown to Brown.

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Speaker 2: To study French, and he wants to be a French tutor,

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Speaker 2: so gay.

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Speaker 1: And then he discovers, as many people do, Providence is

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Speaker 1: a pretty alternative and people are.

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Speaker 2: Goes to Sabers for the first time, he met these

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Speaker 2: like rich risdy girls who are like, we're going to.

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Speaker 1: New York worthrifting and he gets, which I think actually

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Speaker 1: is an introduction for a lot of people into thrifting

339
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Speaker 1: is Army.

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00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,240
Speaker 2: And he gets this vintage surplus Navy admiral's coat in

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Speaker 2: perfect condition. Oh, the brass buttons were intact. It was

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Speaker 2: a MAXI almost to my feet and I'd wear it

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Speaker 2: with scratchy sail of pants four inches above the ankles

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Speaker 2: and lace up Oxford with small Flamingo dancer heels.

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Speaker 1: And then I mean this actually was.

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Speaker 2: Kind of like a faggy ass outfit I would see

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Speaker 2: in Bushwick today.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of hilarious, Like his mother was so rude.

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Speaker 1: So when he goes home and it's so like your

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00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 1: first like break home after art school and they're about

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Speaker 1: to go to church and he's wearing it, she glared

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Speaker 1: at me and said, I can't be seen walking with

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Speaker 1: you up to the aisle in this Phantom of the Opera.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I'm like, okay, Moss daring it.

355
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Speaker 1: And it is that thing where your kid comes up

356
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Speaker 1: from art school and they are like chunky shoes, army coat,

357
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Speaker 1: wallet chains like dressover pantsas.

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Speaker 2: And you're converse and you're just like really, and you're

359
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,600
Speaker 2: just like, I mean, it's so my mom for so

360
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,119
Speaker 2: many years, Steven, Are you gonna wear that to dinner?

361
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me?

362
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 2: Can you please pick something else?

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00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, she's in just like insane glitter like.

364
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah she's and go, yeah, she's in some just like

365
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 2: weird insane like whatever.

366
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Speaker 1: But so he kind of like changes course at Brown,

367
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,760
Speaker 1: sees all these busy people and it's like wait fashion, yeah,

368
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 1: and then someone every is a mentor and like a

369
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,280
Speaker 1: father of a friend gets him the intern the internship

370
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:45,359
Speaker 1: to end all internships. Diana Virland met costume institute.

371
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,359
Speaker 2: So he gets this internship and he hasn't even I

372
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,879
Speaker 2: don't even met Diana Vreeling yet. And then someone like

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Speaker 2: one of the persons trying to hands him this shoe

374
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Speaker 2: box full of chain mail and it's all messed up

375
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Speaker 2: and it's this like chain mail dress.

376
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 1: For like Cleopat, It's like Cleopatra's chainmail dress. And he

377
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 1: spends all day. He's like, this has to be untangled

378
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,800
Speaker 1: by midnight. It literally is the most like Project Runway

379
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,040
Speaker 1: top model.

380
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 2: Thing, Like it's just like a pot. It's a pile

381
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,120
Speaker 2: of like just tangled chain mail, and then he somehow

382
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 2: fashions it perfectly into the dress. Diana Freeling comes in

383
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Speaker 2: the room and she just goes, who did this?

384
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,200
Speaker 1: No, it's so who did this? It's a silent room,

385
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 1: and he's like, I did this.

386
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 2: I did like shaking like doesn't know if you didn't.

387
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:35,239
Speaker 1: She's just like, you will never leave my side. And

388
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:36,680
Speaker 1: Diana Virlen's.

389
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 2: Well, when he talks about her style of talking, he's like,

390
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 2: she has this this staccato style of narrative. Missus Reeland

391
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 2: spoken narratives in stacatto sentences. You had to figure out

392
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 2: what she wanted. The next dress she assigned me was

393
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,439
Speaker 2: from Cleopatra one by Claudette Colbert. You must remember Andre

394
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 2: White Peacock's The Sun. And this is a girl of

395
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,159
Speaker 2: fourteen who is a queen. Now get cracking, right, ho,

396
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 2: It's just like kind of a string of nouns.

397
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 1: And then we went into her office. Is if she

398
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 1: she hires him. We went into her office where she

399
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 1: sat down and wrote my name in large letters. Help her,

400
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 1: she wrote underneath it, and handed the paper to me.

401
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 1: You will stay by my side night and day until

402
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,439
Speaker 1: the show is finished. Let's go, kiddo, let's get corrected.

403
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 1: And then there's this gorgeous photo of them, like a

404
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: fixing a mannequin. He's in these like gorgeous kind of

405
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,399
Speaker 1: wide like pleated dress pants and a cream turtleneck, and

406
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,159
Speaker 1: she's in one of her classic like later because this

407
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 1: is when Diner Villum like started wearing pantsuits.

408
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 2: Right, and she kind of invented androgyny women pantsuits, which

409
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 2: then like why a cell kind of reinvents.

410
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,400
Speaker 1: Later he says, she and someone else invented androgyny. So oh,

411
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 1: Marlon and Dietrich, of.

412
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 2: Course, yeah, But then there's always these like this kind

413
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 2: of coterie of these random other women, like Betty Katru,

414
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 2: who's like on every cage in an apag and like

415
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,400
Speaker 2: all these other women.

416
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 1: Betty Katru was the first butch person on earth. And

417
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 1: I'm like, who is Betty True? And it's because Betty

418
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 1: True bought Haynes t shirts.

419
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, shocking suits but no one was doing that. Yeah,

420
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 2: and it was kind of mind blowing. And now it's like, yeah,

421
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 2: King Princess found dead, like wearing a tank.

422
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: The High Low. So he was unpaid. Also during this,

423
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 1: it was an internship, So.

424
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 2: There's this thing. So Diana Reelan, she's kind of like

425
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 2: she's this mythical creature and she literally launches him on

426
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,880
Speaker 2: a mythical like Greek quest. She right after the internship finishes,

427
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 2: he's in New York. He's penniless.

428
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: He wants to go home for Christmas. His you know,

429
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: his grandmother's like come home, come home, come home. They

430
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 1: think he's fucking a white woman, is what they said.

431
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,239
Speaker 2: And he goes. I tried working as a receptionist at

432
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 2: the ASPCA, but it was too tragic, which I'm obsessed with.

433
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 2: This is Reeling called me into her office late one afternoon,

434
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 2: just before taking out for the Christmas holiday season. Don't

435
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 2: go home to Durham. Andre really pronounced. If you home

436
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 2: to the South, you will get a teaching job, of course,

437
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 2: but you'll never come back to New York. It will

438
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 2: happen for you. Just sit tight and run home. But

439
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 2: I have no money, I need a job. Stick it out.

440
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 2: You belong in New York. Do not go home for Christmas.

441
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 2: And she literally gives him this like mystical edict. She's like,

442
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 2: you can't go home. You will be otherwise, like you'll

443
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 2: be become a teacher and you won't become like a

444
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 2: fashion icon. And so he doesn't go home for Christmas.

445
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 2: He like eats beans like with no.

446
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: Heat, not even This is also kind of a prelude

447
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,640
Speaker 1: to some darker times. I opened the cupboards and found

448
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 1: a can of her She's chocolate syrup, which I devoured

449
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: with the fine silver teaspo sweet too, and followed with

450
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: glasses of water Chase the thick dance, sir. Like.

451
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 2: A few weeks later, like she starts calling all these

452
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 2: people and.

453
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 1: This is what is so fabus, and I think so

454
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: Greek mythic about it. She's not like, stay here you'll

455
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: become this When I get back from Christmas, I'll like

456
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: tell him I'll write you some letters. Yeah, she knows

457
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 1: she will, but she makes him kind of stick out.

458
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 2: Like she gives him this test. It's a trial. It's

459
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: like an Odysseus trial.

460
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: And of course she goes and has a wonderful holiday

461
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 1: with the day of rental. So she does always all

462
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: fabulous and she's in theese or whatever, and she returns

463
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: back and then gets out her quill and then writes

464
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 1: her recommendation to every magazine, every fashion house. I mean,

465
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: she writes recommendations to him for everyone. And then he

466
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: gets a job at Interview.

467
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 2: At Interview magazine New York City.

468
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 4: Fran Lebowits, I mean, it's kind of insane because it's

469
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 4: just like what is this world?

470
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 2: What is this world? Where it's like Fran much like me,

471
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 2: wrote a monthly column Interview and would just roll through

472
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 2: the office, which like now they're like, isn't even an office.

473
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: She was getting paid enough to like live in her

474
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: fabulous apart and munch.

475
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: Like you people queaked qua.

476
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 2: They walked to her loafers or pennyloafers, jumped into the office.

477
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: It's like she's in the same Levis and Loafers had

478
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: just written Metropolitan Life, and I want to I want

479
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: to ask you a question. Do you think one friend

480
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: the falls asleep in her raw Dunham, like, is she

481
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: still like stuck with a cloud that she has like

482
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: not written a book since the seventies?

483
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 2: Yes, I think so absolutely. I mean so was Capoti.

484
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 2: You know after in Cold Blood he was like, oh

485
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 2: and you never did anything in that and you know

486
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: he threw fabulous parties and he was like a socialista. Okay,

487
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 2: friend's career, her career now is basically being like a

488
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 2: grand bit. Yeah, she's just like.

489
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: Who supposedly is dating has been dating? Dating is kind

490
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: of a funny word. So as Tony Morrison.

491
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: What No, Yes, they're just like good friends who go

492
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 2: to the ninety second Street why once every nine months.

493
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: That's called being a lesbian.

494
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 2: Also, isn't anymore? Is dead alive boots? Okay, you're che bitch.

495
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 2: Tony died in twenty nineteen, Okay, four years ago.

496
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, the pandemic is just she's still knocking loafers with

497
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: fran I don't think so lesbian bed Okay, well sometimes anyway,

498
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: I still stand by that. I think they have slept together.

499
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: Ran in the comments, Gay this tea le lesbian tribunal

500
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 2: where you at? We're Sampson reviewed.

501
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: I think rocks and Gay said this on Twitter and

502
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: people in the comments were like, yes, it's known she would.

503
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: So he's working at and he's the receptionist. And Fran though,

504
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 1: is like, I like you because you actually do your

505
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: job because obviously it's so gay over there and like

506
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: no one is doing their job and just like stomping

507
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: around the office.

508
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: Can I just this is just like an example of

509
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: the fashion writing this book, how everything is so incredible.

510
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 2: He's talking about Bianca Jagger's luggage. Oh, all of this

511
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,959
Speaker 2: was packed in tissue and layered in extraordinary Louisviton cases,

512
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: unlike any I had previously seen. They were actually custom

513
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: made hunting cases used to pack guns for grouse shoots.

514
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: Because of the length she could pack her Xandra Roads

515
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: Krinaline the evening gowns flat, no folds in these coffin

516
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 2: like cases. She bought them in Paris at the Avenue

517
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: Mouth So Louis Viton store. It's like, okay, you knew,

518
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: you know where she bought the luggage and you're describing

519
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: the actual size and leg the luggage and how the krinoline,

520
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: which is a word that no one has.

521
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: Ever used, the lining of luggage.

522
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 2: No, that's the evening gowns are made of crinoline.

523
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: Sons Rod like, oh, she was wearing the most gorgeous

524
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: Sondre Roads outfit. No, and this book after traveling for

525
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: a week with my busted Samsonite.

526
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 2: You were when he gets in the car accident.

527
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: Oh my god, okay. He So he gets in a

528
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: car accident in Anna Windour's rental car after like a wedding,

529
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: fully like tumbles into a field, like horrible car accident.

530
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: Someone pulls him and he's like very heavy at this

531
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: point out of the car. He's in the hospital and

532
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: they're like Andre, you're okay, And he goes, how is

533
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: my luckage? And they're like the rental car is totaled

534
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: and he's like but what and they're like the I think,

535
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: he goes the luggage was fine, it was unscathed.

536
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 2: I mean. So this book is basically about two incredible cunts,

537
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 2: Anna and Carl, And it's like they're both incredibly cold,

538
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: they're both like really powerful, and they both love Andre

539
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 2: and like his personality and his knowledge, but he isn't

540
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: accessory to them, and.

541
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: They both drop him. Yeah, when he is no longer

542
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: important to them, and they are both very thin at

543
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: certain points until Carl gains weight with on that.

544
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: There's a line in here which is so haunting where

545
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: he's like, Carl and I were both in the beginning

546
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: stages just to be like we were kind of bonding.

547
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: We were kind of starting our weight gain journey together,

548
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: and it was like and.

549
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: It sounded really fun, like literally like most of when

550
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: they were bff, like they would just like sit at

551
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: his dining room table, and he was like, Carl wanted

552
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: to be entertained. He want to talk about opera, He

553
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: want to talk about literature, You want to talk about

554
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: fashion opera. And they would eat sumptuous meals and have

555
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: like other princesses over but then he's like, Carl would

556
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: eat three cold frankfurters from the fridge.

557
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: Well, I was I think while we were on weight,

558
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: I might just want to get into that because he

559
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: has like some incredibly very self awarrees. One of the

560
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: things about this book is like he really just understands himself,

561
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: and it's almost like impossible to even like call him

562
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: out because you know, like when he talks about overreading,

563
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: he's like, I didn't have sex, and I was like

564
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: basically a virgin all the time because I was like

565
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: less as a child and my mother never loved me,

566
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: and so I like became really uncomfortable like with other

567
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: people's bodies and was basically just like I'm going to

568
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: retreat into this world of like knowledge and fashion and

569
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: like details, silks.

570
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: And I do kind of feel like there's something about

571
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: fashion that is so not sexual. And I was thinking

572
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: about that.

573
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: Because the body as instrument is the body as mannequin.

574
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: Even though fashion is used so much for sex and

575
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: it's sold via sex, right, but it's like to be

576
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: so in it, you have to be so in the

577
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: clothes and kind of like forget about people and use

578
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: people as you know, just an instrument for the clothes

579
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: and the details. So it's kind of like sex goes away,

580
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: and so his I mean that scene where he has

581
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: sex with this designer and like it.

582
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: Goes back, don't have sex, like get in bed and

583
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, it's.

584
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: Really awkward and it doesn't work, and he's like I

585
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: never mounted anyone after that and just like my abuse

586
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: and AIDS, and I was like, I just and he's like,

587
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: I had so many amazing friendships in my life, but

588
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: I never had love.

589
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: He kind of like sums it all up quite just succinctly,

590
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: and he's talking about AIDS also, He's like, during this

591
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: terrifying time, my sexual repression saved my life. Friendly Boitz

592
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: called me a nun and she wasn't far off. Despite

593
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: all the sex and drugs going around me, I rarely

594
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: ever partook really though. I was too uptight to have

595
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: a lover. I had internalized my childhood abuse and was

596
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: too afraid now to have a relationship. I put love

597
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: in the back of my mind instead. I continue to

598
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: focus on my career and never even considered the need

599
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: for a separate social life until it was too late

600
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 2: to have one. My social life was attending fittings with

601
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: Sauche Lambalget. I thought myself so clever then. Sex was

602
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: not on my radar. Success was, and if I felt sad,

603
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: I would eat. If that didn't work, I would keep

604
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 2: eating until it did. I claim it, yes, yes, I

605
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: claim it, for all the pain I must endure in

606
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 2: the absence of love binge inge is mine, which which

607
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't say anything. I'm just like, yeah,

608
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: well no own.

609
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: So many people also have these rumors about him being

610
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 1: like this like big dicked guy that like fucked all

611
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: the designers well career.

612
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he talks about these Yeah, it's like and that

613
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: was like out of jealousy, and there was a lot

614
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: of like Imperial Court drama Karl and people trying to

615
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: get rid of him and Sully his good name with

616
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: rumors because they were jealous of its proximity to the king.

617
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: And he felt like, oh, people just think I'm this

618
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: like big, like black guy with like a huge dick

619
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: and like and he was like, well, and I'm actually

620
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: not sleeping with anyone.

621
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, does he have a big deck? Maybe? Maybe he

622
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: kind of doesn't deny that he has a big deck.

623
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: Yes, but he basically is like I don't know how

624
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: to move.

625
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: He like dies a virgin. It's kind of I mean's

626
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: something so sad about him. And I mean, here's the

627
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 2: thing about him and Anna and Carl. It's like Anna

628
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 2: and Carl are also these cold, sexless creatures who never

629
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 2: take off the class.

630
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: Does Carl have sex?

631
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: I don't know.

632
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: He has lovers.

633
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: He has this lover and I think in like the eighties,

634
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: like maybe he is having sex. Carl is also such

635
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: an incredibly sad figure. Carl is so sad and he's

636
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: so obsessed with aging and death. I mean the reason

637
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: that him and Andre have their big falling out is

638
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: because he's dares ask him to fund this like woman's

639
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: retrospective show, but you can't talk about death.

640
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: Also, this whole book is leading up to when Carl

641
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: is going to drop him as a friend.

642
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

643
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: The whole time, Andrea is setting us up being like

644
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: I would see him drop this person and this person

645
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: like someone just like asks about my about Carl's dead lover,

646
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: and they like their bags are packed the next day. Yeah,

647
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: and then he's like.

648
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: What I mean that girl. It's like when he shoots

649
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 2: that random like daughter at carl'sy and then he doesn't

650
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: like one of the photos and then he doesn't get

651
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: met at Andre, but he does like pack her bag,

652
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: sent her back to Italy, like, never speaks to her again.

653
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: She's off the list that every Chanelle show for the

654
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: rest of her life. It's over.

655
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: And she's like the best friend of his dead boyfriend

656
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: is really crazy. Well, Carl Laherfeld this insane. I mean,

657
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: I feel like his child is just being summary and

658
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: a Bramvic and all of our like all of our

659
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: Balkan girlies.

660
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: Who a the mom who calls him a dike and

661
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: she straps.

662
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: Him bondage style so he doesn't eat.

663
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like how how it's like how to make

664
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: an eating disorder? Strap your child, trap your little German

665
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 2: gay son to the bed and like.

666
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: Gorgeous leather bondage and then says you look like an

667
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: old dyke.

668
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 2: You know. Andre is like both Anna and Carl, and and.

669
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: Also the connection is Anna only it's he's in this

670
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: cycle of almost abuse because Anna only wears Chanel no

671
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: I know, and.

672
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: She and she kind of like needs Andrea to keep

673
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:05,719
Speaker 2: up the relationship with Carl.

674
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 1: She's afraid to talk to Carl, and she's always sending him.

675
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: Being like the key snaker between the two of them.

676
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: Because it's like those two insane thin cuts, right, I

677
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: can't speak, So she's like, can you ask Carl if

678
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: we can go see the collection?

679
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 2: But it's like then he is. He's obviously much closer

680
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 2: with Carl than they are like gay guys I mean

681
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: that's scene when they like both drink a full bottle

682
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: of vodka with like Anna Piagi and then go to

683
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,959
Speaker 2: this like club in Paris and he's like, we didn't

684
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: say a word, We just watch people dance for two hours.

685
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: The amount of vodka. And he's also very like, oh,

686
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: I didn't do coke like everyone was always having. They

687
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: were kind of these two sexual like friends to be like,

688
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: that's a little bit scary. We can like stand together

689
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: with this party as everyone is doing like coke and fucking.

690
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: Okay two things. Two wordsn't want to go down. First

691
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 2: of all, that kind of like I'm near all the hedonism,

692
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: but I'm not partaking. There was part of me of

693
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: that that I found annoying. When he's like going to

694
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: the Eagle with like his cheeka, and there's like guys

695
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: are like pissing down each other and they're like giggling

696
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 2: and running away. It's a little bit like, you know,

697
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: what if you're not gonna like be yes.

698
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: But that's also just his repression and I'm being scared.

699
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 2: I get that it's the repression, but at a certain point,

700
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: it's like you are an adult. Get over here in

701
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: New York you're going to clubs, you're seeing people like

702
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: do coke, like do coke and do the works and

703
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: do blow drops at two fifty four like every night,

704
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 2: So like you do need to just like I don't

705
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: know if you find you can be ace, but like

706
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 2: don't be so like giggling in everyone who's trying to

707
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: like suck dick.

708
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: No. And he was being like, oh like Holston doing coke.

709
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: I had to leave Bianca Jagger's wedding because I couldn't

710
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: see that.

711
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so and it's kind of like this hedonism is

712
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 2: feeling creativity, which is feeling your industry.

713
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's two size because you just kind

714
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 1: of feel bad for him. It's just like the uptake

715
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: girl who like doesn't want to party.

716
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 2: And it's also very Bill Cunningham.

717
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 4: It's also like him gun I'm him gun ate like

718
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 4: all of these frigid like fashion like women and gays

719
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 4: who are like so have they They also all have

720
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 4: a uniform, which is so interesting. Yes klftan like Halfdan

721
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 4: Bill Kindeham with the chore jacket, Anna with the glasses,

722
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 4: and Chanel Caral with the glasses in Chanel, it's like

723
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 4: they all wear the same.

724
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: Thing every day, Tim Gun kind of in the same suit,

725
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: the pinstripe suit.

726
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: I do you feel like it could take care of

727
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: her own dudes to work? Do you think Andrea masturbates?

728
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, it's like but rarely. I feel like

729
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: it's so like when he absolutely has to and then

730
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: takes a shower.

731
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 2: Because his balls are those birth down head.

732
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

733
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: I feel like it's kind of like twice a year.

734
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so catholic.

735
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,479
Speaker 1: Like I feel like Carl doesn't masturbate, but like gets

736
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: fucked once a year. Does Anna masturbate? Does she take

737
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 1: out her rabbit?

738
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 2: The most efficient masturbating are your magic thirty seconds. I

739
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 2: feel and she has like she got like an exclusive

740
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 2: that's in like green Faberge marble or something, and it's

741
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 2: like in.

742
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: A locked thing.

743
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: I know. I feel like she's just having tense sex

744
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: with her like husband or her boyfriend or whatever. Like

745
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 2: I just has been her boy I'm just being like Roger,

746
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 2: like we only have seven minutes, and she's like pissed

747
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: devil's product.

748
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: What's also insane about Anna and him is the beginning

749
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: of the book. He sets up that Carl is gonna

750
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: like dismiss him at the beginning of the book, Andrea

751
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: is like defending Anna like as much as he can.

752
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: He's like, by the way, the devil, he's being so

753
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: like weird girl and being like the devil. Worst part

754
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: is actually like not totally accurate, and like Anna's not like.

755
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: That because she would because she would never throw her coat.

756
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: And then but then it's like the whole book of

757
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: her being so devil res product and literally they're like

758
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 2: one of their last scenes is when she like throws

759
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 2: her hand back at him and she's like she's like

760
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 2: hold this, yeah, And.

761
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: Then like the one of the last ends of the

762
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: book is him being like Anna, do you have any humanity?

763
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 2: Yeah?

764
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: But he's being so like detail, being like Vogue was

765
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: actually a place of manners and no one would put

766
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: a code.

767
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: He you know, the relationship with Anna, he expels it

768
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 2: all out. He worships her, he's obsessed with her. He

769
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 2: thinks she's the best dressed woman in the world. He's

770
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 2: like grateful to her and is in awe of her power.

771
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: And he's also like she's the coldest bitch in the

772
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 2: world and she can't speak to other people like a human.

773
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 2: And when she decided to like fire me, and it

774
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: was actually the digital team at Condy that fired me

775
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 2: from doing the red carpet at the Mecca and replace

776
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 2: me with a YouTube influencers. She could have called me,

777
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: and she didn't call me.

778
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: And then but it's like Grace Mirabella found out she

779
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: was being replaced by Anna Wintour on NBC News. Imagine

780
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 1: that I was like, that's so crazy. Imagine like watching

781
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: live NBC News at five and then being like, there's

782
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: a new elrit Vogue.

783
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: I mean, she knew it was coming.

784
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: The insane scene towards the end of his relationship with

785
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: Anna where they're going to an event and she thinks

786
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: she gives.

787
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 2: Her phone tiny bag and she thought her phone was

788
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: in it.

789
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: And then she's like, where's my bag, Andre, where the

790
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 1: fuck is my phone? And it's flipping on. It's like,

791
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: look for my phone, and he's like in his kaftan,

792
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: like looking like everywhere, and then he calls and it's

793
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: like she left in the car. And then she writes

794
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: him a handwritten note just like she did when they

795
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: first locked eyes at the Vogue offices that says like

796
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: thank you, and then he sends it to get framed

797
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: at a local framer plans and then the framer loses

798
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: the note, and he says, and he literally is like,

799
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: I have called that framer every week.

800
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: I have verbally assassinated him every week for the rest

801
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 2: of my life. Are you okay? There's there's a lie

802
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 2: where he's just incredibly aware of this relationship. He goes,

803
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: I'm not belittling myself to say my strength was in

804
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: my ability to be beside a small, great, powerful white

805
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: woman and encourage her vision. In exchange, Diana Vreelann always

806
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 2: showed me unconditional love, and Anna Winter and I became

807
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 2: extremely close. To be clear, however, neither of them ever

808
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 2: felt like small women to me, except when it came

809
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: to clothes fittings. Hello, we just be like I get it, Like, yeah,

810
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: I am here beside these like tiny little white women

811
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: who tower over the industry, and like that is why.

812
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 2: And he's like, and I don't think that that makes

813
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: me like a small, pathetic person. No, it's just the

814
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: real it's just sometimes a gay man and a straight woman.

815
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 2: That's that's what happened.

816
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, he's like, look it works.

817
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 2: I love the part when he tries to work for

818
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: Vogue and Gray sprint ba is still there and oh yeah,

819
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: and she's like so she's like thinks it's so embarrassing

820
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: that he was like clapping like a seal at like.

821
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like new and new designers, and she

822
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: was like and then finally she's like, what do you

823
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: see in them? And he's like, I think they're great,

824
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: and she's like disgusting, And then this was so fabulous

825
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: and also just like Tina Brown and handwritten notes and

826
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: bring back handwritten notes. Then it's like the original handwritten

827
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: note is Anna past, this is my Andre in the hallway,

828
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: slight smile, no words. He goes back to his new

829
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: apartment in Union Square, bitch, and just under his doors

830
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: a handwritten note.

831
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 2: Already somehow It's like it's only two stops away on

832
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 2: the trend, and it's like.

833
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 1: That's so devils product for this, and it's just like,

834
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: I can't wait to work together Anna X because.

835
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 2: She sees an ally she's like, boom and there's my game.

836
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 2: Let's go, there's my new handbag, and she was right,

837
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: I okay, just a couple other things about the history fashion. Okay,

838
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 2: when he works for Vanity Fair, he does that that's

839
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: scarlet in the Hood photoshoot. You look at the photos

840
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 2: of that, it's so fa and John Galliano is like

841
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 2: the servant and Naomi Campbell is Scarlett O'Hara. It's so

842
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: fab and it's so vanity fair, and I think it's

843
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 2: like he actually think has the most fun when he

844
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: goes to VF. It's the grating Carter days, glory days

845
00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 2: of magazine, sense of humor, edgy, fun, elegant editorial. It's

846
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 2: like that's what magazines used to be.

847
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 1: And it's like that's what Tyra was trying to recreate. Yeah, yeah,

848
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,720
Speaker 1: you know, like yeah, everything was so crazy.

849
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 2: It was it was thematic and like I don't think

850
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: you know, Tyra and I guess PN taste this taste

851
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 2: level creative creative director. It was like Jay and Jay

852
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 2: were like not quite at the level of like Andre

853
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: Leon tally like I've been fair like that and you know.

854
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: And it's like Andre talks about like, you know, how

855
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: like scar you know, Gone with the Wind. He's like, well,

856
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: how as a black man could I like, I get

857
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: that it's like an important movie, but like how could

858
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: I enjoy this? And then he's like, Okay, let's flip it.

859
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's flip it. And it's like it's it's fun,

860
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 2: and it is empowering and it is a subtle activism,

861
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 2: as he says, and it's of course and of course

862
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: could never do that today, no can.

863
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: We also talk about how he says Renees Elberger is

864
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: the only celebrity who become a fashion editor.

865
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that I was the most im lyne in the book.

866
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: And I saw and I read it and it was

867
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: one of those things to reading, like maybe I read

868
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: this wrong yea, And I turned back and I'm like,

869
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: we're talking about Renee Zellwegger.

870
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 2: Fashion editor, fashion orly celebrity who could be a fashion editor.

871
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, if Andre says it, I'll believe it.

872
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: But I'm like, huh, I guess I've just like, I mean, now.

873
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 2: Like gay Vergin of him to have like gotten tea

874
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: with her once at like.

875
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: To also choose one of the A listers, but like,

876
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 1: because it's very gay to be like Catherine David Jones

877
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 1: is my favorite celebrity extremely or to be like Renee,

878
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: like you're not going for like the top, You're never

879
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 1: gonna be.

880
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: But he is kind of like Christian, so there's something

881
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 2: very sexless about Renee or at least.

882
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: Like PG Well and Renee who Mary Kenna Chesney.

883
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: Who's gay so and then dated Bradley Cooper.

884
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 1: Who's also gay. Who I just saw in a video

885
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: at Taylorswift concert last night.

886
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 2: So you saw him in a video.

887
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: I saw him in a video. Yeah, I wasn't that

888
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: dealershiff that I was. I saw him it at a video.

889
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 2: Hmmm, real behavior.

890
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: Totally singing along. Should I just read the last I

891
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: mean this made me cry the last paragraph of this book.

892
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: I've always feared life. I love living, and I love

893
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: looking to the endless guies. The world can't hurt me.

894
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 1: No one can hurt me. When I live in the

895
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: circle of faith, love and prayer. It gives me unbridled

896
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 1: joy to give love. I always wanted love.

897
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 2: Oh, it is so sad. And you see him, you know,

898
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: he is wrapping himself in the cross.

899
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: In the cafftown.

900
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 2: Yes, in the cross, but you know, but but you know,

901
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 2: using religion as a retreat, and it's it's provided him.

902
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: I think a lot of steadiness and stability over the years,

903
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: but also he's still expressing this desire for companionship and

904
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: an intimacy that he's never had, and he just, you know,

905
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 2: he said, it's not going to happen for me, and

906
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to pursue their stuff and I'm going to

907
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 2: be grateful for it. There's part of this that isn't sad,

908
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 2: because I think he have so much gratitude except it.

909
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: And he's like, my friendships have been.

910
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 2: At bitter like you know. And in some ways I

911
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 2: think Carl and A are much sad her figures because

912
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 2: been happy.

913
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: And like can't hold on to a friendship. He's ready

914
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 1: to hold on to friendships.

915
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 2: But you know it's interesting. Anna did cry, she spoke

916
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 2: it has been her own cried. She regrets. Yeah, I

917
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 2: wonder if she does feel real regret.

918
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: Over She read his first memoir, Alt in one night.

919
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: And like sent him a letter being like, wonderful book.

920
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 2: I was.

921
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: Also, she's being so us being like, oh I have

922
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: to read this bookman podcast homework. Yeah, I'm sure she

923
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: got this book, read it in the night and shed

924
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: like one.

925
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 2: Tear, yeah, and then put the sunglasses back.

926
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: I got it, went to bed and they caught in

927
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: her like a zip up. Dolly are famine of segments?

928
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 2: What does she eat?

929
00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: What does she well, does she live?

930
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: What does she eat? Everything? Honey? The Thanksgiving scene, I

931
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 2: was actually I was about to pull that really was harrowing.

932
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 2: He goes, well, he goes home to Durham and this

933
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: is like before after Els Banana stage is the intervention

934
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 2: about Oh, he like goes to a conference, but it's

935
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 2: like Oscar and ant de la Renta Anna Wintour. He's

936
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: like priests and his little pastor and they're all they're like,

937
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: we're sending you to like the Duke University like obesity program,

938
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:33,760
Speaker 2: and then.

939
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: They like he refuses it, does go and then goes

940
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 1: in the cabbage diet and does lose like forty pounds

941
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 1: and gets a rowing machine.

942
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then he falls off and he is ultimately

943
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: addicted to sweets. Yeah.

944
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: So he goes on Thanksgiving his grandmother. The house is empty.

945
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: He orders turkey with the drippings.

946
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,919
Speaker 2: Full pan of mac and cheese, like a full pan

947
00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: offing stuffing, full pan of physicates that when.

948
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 1: He goes and he goes no vegetables.

949
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 2: It was like what was the lion. It's like no fruit,

950
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 2: no vegetables and no oh and no guests. Oh yeah,

951
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 2: no fruit, no vegetables, no guests, and he eats the

952
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 2: entire thing. I also think, you know, his his his

953
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 2: refusal to do drugs, I think meant that he was

954
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 2: also drinking a lot the vodka, vodka seven or whatever.

955
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 2: He's a big guy, so he can put it away

956
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 2: and probably still be in control.

957
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: That's why I was wondering, because I was like, if

958
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:33,959
Speaker 1: I had a bottle.

959
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: Of vodka, I would be I think you might die.

960
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:43,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I'm not. You know, I can put stuff away.

961
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: I'll say that, Okay, all right.

962
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 2: What does he wears?

963
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: But he was so Bermuda shorts, high cable socks.

964
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 2: And wearing Carlografield's hand me down. Surety.

965
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: He got a lot of like cool hand me downs.

966
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 2: I think that his pre kaftan style was very like

967
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 2: modern dandy. I would say, yes, style that is in

968
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 2: the past few years has like come back in a

969
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: really big way in the post Gucci era of like

970
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 2: all long shorts, yeah, long shorts and kind of like

971
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 2: flared pants and like men evoking the seventies and like

972
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 2: being gay in suspenders and hats and whatever. But like

973
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 2: for a long time he was extremely ahead of the

974
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 2: curve on that and was like the only.

975
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 1: Shorts. Yeah, I mean I feel like he started that

976
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: and he was like.

977
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 2: Here I am getting turned away from the grill, still

978
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 2: thirty five years later.

979
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 1: Wearing shorts and loafers.

980
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 2: Wearing loafers. God for so.

981
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: Andrea, we still have worked to do.

982
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: We really do have work less we never, we do

983
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 2: have work to do in this industry, persist.

984
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: How does he live so his like last houses in.

985
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: White places waiting? You know, we had that whole drama

986
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 2: over where Manolo Blonnock's business partner tried to take the

987
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 2: house back from him.

988
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then Diane Furstenberg paid off his debts. Yeah,

989
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: it's just sub of DVF.

990
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 2: By the way, I know the FDVF stands for fact.

991
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: Is she never she stands by his side through this

992
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: entire book of shady ass people.

993
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 2: By the way, but it's this thing where it's it's

994
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 2: actually pretty easy to just like be like most of

995
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 2: like the deal O Rentas and the random easy to

996
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: stand by.

997
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: He's no drama.

998
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 2: He's literally no drama. He's so nice and like such

999
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 2: a just like you know, virgin who's going to write

1000
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 2: a really positive review of your show?

1001
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: He's always like I went back to my teledex and

1002
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: the words poured out of me.

1003
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: Well, okay, one other thing I did want to say, though,

1004
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: I do feel like I'm like, Andre, do you ever

1005
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 2: not like anything? Because I do feel that all his

1006
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: writing is remarkably positive.

1007
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: Well, when he doesn't like something, he doesn't write about it.

1008
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: It's very Southern, like if you don't have something nice

1009
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:45,720
Speaker 1: to say.

1010
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 2: Anything at all. But it's just like, how is that criticism?

1011
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 2: Because this is my issue with art criticism in general.

1012
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: It's like, if you're not going to say anything negative,

1013
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 2: then like where then it's just endless praise.

1014
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: I do write because Kathy Horne is a critic, right.

1015
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: I think of him as just a fashion journalist.

1016
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 2: Right, And just like discussing the the thing is it's

1017
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 2: like he needs the access to Carl and then Vogue

1018
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: needs the access to the advertisers, and the advertisers are

1019
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 2: the fashion brands they're writing about, so it's like they

1020
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: can never really be.

1021
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: We're all sucking off David Yurman's we.

1022
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: Are all sucking off David Herman's ring.

1023
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: I remember like buying Vogue as like you know, a

1024
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: teen and just pages of pages of Saint John's and

1025
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: I was like, what is Saint John's?

1026
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, who's addicted? They suck? Okay, I mean it's all

1027
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: these like handing down chests. It's very like Louis Catour's

1028
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 2: like chess. I think it's like a dresser and then

1029
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 2: like a really overstuffed like Rocco chair a little.

1030
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: Bit or deco. I don't think it's as like seventeenth

1031
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: century French as.

1032
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 2: I think it's. But he worshiped Carl, and Carl is

1033
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 2: giving him random chases and then taking them back like

1034
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 2: three years later, which he does with everyone.

1035
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: Carlo also, sorry, that is so just roommate girl to

1036
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 1: be like, hey, can I have my Ikia dresser back

1037
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: that's been at your apartment for four years? Like he

1038
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 1: invented that.

1039
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 2: It's very that And you have also famously done that

1040
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: with the Nogucci coffee table that I bought and that

1041
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 2: like moved through so many apartments over the years, and

1042
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 2: that you still have and by when Gucci.

1043
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: Incantation, Imagucci, No, I have moved it through and taken

1044
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: it and put it in different floors at houses so

1045
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: that I got in trouble for and yeah, the Nagucci

1046
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: knockout continues to cause trauma and it lives on. Yes, queen,

1047
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: who are you in the book? Am I Betty Laquale?

1048
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:49,399
Speaker 1: I'm buying three white T shirts to wear with my suits. Androgynists, Okay,

1049
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: you know who is fab but none of us are

1050
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: this person. But Anna Piaggi who buys dead pigeons to

1051
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: wear on her head to Bianca Jagger's wedding.

1052
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, she went for it. And she the one who

1053
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 2: was like.

1054
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 1: Flames and was like oops, yeah, it's happened to me before.

1055
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was a Sliyana. I mean yeah, am I,

1056
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 2: Ana went for calling intervention with me sending you to

1057
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: the Duke University of Visiting program.

1058
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: Are we Gianni VERSACEI and his lover binging old movies

1059
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: with Andre and our house gowns?

1060
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 2: Kind of ye? We are being so like bitch come

1061
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,839
Speaker 2: over and much funny girl at our like como mission.

1062
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 1: This Versace I like the least like right up, because

1063
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 1: I think they were just like being Chicas. Like there's

1064
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: one paragraph where he was just like we would watch

1065
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:41,919
Speaker 1: all movies like all night long. It was so much fun.

1066
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also didn't Versace obviously like is having sex

1067
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 2: and like I think Carl being a sexist freak like

1068
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 2: needed Andre more and like needed and like had this

1069
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 2: more weird like parasitic relationship with each other.

1070
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: On the versace fan was already having so much inter

1071
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: fan drama.

1072
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot going on over there.

1073
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: And then he was like, funny, don't need this.

1074
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 2: Like fashion journalists like stocking the holes.

1075
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, we're watching a funny girl in Miami.

1076
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: One thing I admire about Anna that I aspire to

1077
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 2: is that every meeting is like under seven minutes.

1078
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 1: Wait, that's what I thought of you when she was

1079
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: like if a meeting went over seven, she was like,

1080
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: we're wasting.

1081
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: Time here, and I fully agree with that.

1082
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,760
Speaker 1: The zoom calls that go on forever. You're like, hoo cares.

1083
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 2: I've spoken openly about my hatred for long meanings. This

1084
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: hashtag could have been an emale delting. Okay. I give

1085
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 2: this book out of five Louis Coator's chezes. I give

1086
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 2: it that Carl takes back from me.

1087
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: Five trays of Dillard's Mac and Cheese out of five.

1088
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: I'm just like, every sentence.

1089
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 2: You want to fall intous and.

1090
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: History, like when they look back in twenty seven hundred million.

1091
00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 1: This is a history book.

1092
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no again, I'm putting in the NSC glitteradianthology of

1093
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 2: CBC episodes. It is so I just it's a must,

1094
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 2: you know. He's some of the tropes of the like

1095
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 2: psychoanalyzing yourself and like giving yourself this hero's journey. He does,

1096
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 2: but there's so little self pitying here and it's it's

1097
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 2: really quite impressive.

1098
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: It's just kind of honest. He's self aware when things

1099
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 1: are sad and sucked up and he's like yes, and

1100
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: then he's like and pigeons and shimwaserie. Yeah, and also

1101
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: like we're I don't know to compare to like the

1102
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: Tina's kind of like name name name, and obviously it's fabulous,

1103
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: but this kind of tells a little bit more of

1104
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: a story. Yeah, kind of a mix between Nora and

1105
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: Tina anyway, but it's his own and it's Andre's yes,

1106
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: and thank you Andre for sharing your story and writing

1107
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: the chaffon trenches before you pass, rest Resting Pigeon best Fast.

1108
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,479
Speaker 1: This episode of Celebrity Book Club was produced and edited

1109
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: by Darby Masters. The supervising producer and editor is Abooz.

1110
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 1: The far Christine Everett is the executive producer, Bahied Fraser

1111
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:07,839
Speaker 1: did the engineering, the artwork, Teddy Blank's the theme song

1112
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 1: Stephen Phillips Horse. This podcast was co created with Prologue Projects.

1113
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: And let me get this straight.

1114
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 2: You like this podcast, but you want more.

1115
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: How about this Go to our Patreon and say give

1116
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: us five dollars a month. Well, you'll get an extra

1117
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: episode every single week. That's patreon dot com Last Abc

1118
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: the pod,