1 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal 2 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: and Sager. We're gonna be totally upfront with you. We 3 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: took a big risk going independent to make this work. 4 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC. 5 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions 6 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: of dollars doing it to help support our mission of 7 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: making all of us hate each other, less hate the 8 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: corrupt ruling class more support the show. 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We have an amazing show for everybody today. Well, 19 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: we have Christal Indeed, we do lots and lots of 20 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: movement on the democratic agenda. The white House now has 21 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: some fairly concrete proposals pushback from kirston Cinema. The whole thing. 22 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be real with you. It is a 23 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: dog's breakfast. It is a mess that there is very 24 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: little that's redeeming about it. But we want to go 25 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: through all the details, both on the spending side and 26 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: on the revenue side. According to Donald Trump, your favorite president, 27 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: has a new social media platform called Truth A lot 28 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: that's very interesting about that. We'll get into what maybe 29 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: it says about his future plans and all of that 30 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: good stuff. Southwest Airlines kind of back and down on 31 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: their vaccination policy, so we'll get to that. Joe Rogan 32 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: has now responded to the Don Lemon response of his 33 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: interview with Sanjay Gupta, so I'll tell you what he said. 34 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: We also have a couple of folks on who are 35 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: trying to unionize college athletes, specifically football players. Very interesting 36 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: effort there, so we'll talk to them. But we wanted 37 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: to start with some of the details of the build 38 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: Back Better plan. I want to kill myself every time 39 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: I say that, but let's go ahead and throw this 40 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: Jeff Stein tweet up on the screen. So the White 41 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: House has now gotten much more involved in the negotiations. 42 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: They are saying top line number, which remember originally six trillion, 43 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: then it was brought down two three and a half. 44 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: Now they're saying, okay, somewhere south of one point nine. 45 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 1: One point nine trillion is now the maximum. Of course, 46 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: Joe Manchin had wanted one point five, so much much 47 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: closer to what he and the other corporatists wanted than 48 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: what Biden wanted or what the progressives went. We told 49 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: you before that Mansion had basically said no to the 50 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: key core of the climate provisions, which was effectively a 51 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: renewable energy standard. That's out replacement unclear. We know the 52 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: dollar amount is quite low, so whatever they're doing on 53 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: climate is effectively peanuts. The child tax credit, they may 54 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: extend it for one year, sort of pathetic community college, 55 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: which we had been told was actually a key priority 56 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: of both the President and the first Lady. That's gone 57 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: replaced by some scholarships. Pathetic salt still being negotiated. Actually 58 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: that's back. That's still on the table. Guys. The sweets 59 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: has solved us out, but that's actually not quite accurate. 60 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: Salts still potentially on the on the table. In terms 61 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: of making sure that rich people get their tax Kitsu 62 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: pre k, Universal pre k, this one is actually good. 63 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: Is still in childcare? Is still in hold that thought 64 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: for a moment, because there's some big problems with the program. There, 65 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: big cuts to housing, elder care. They're saying they want 66 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: to go forward with the Medicare benefit extension, that's expansion, 67 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: that's dental vision hearing, but the money that they're saying 68 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: would go to that is not sufficient to actually do that. 69 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: The other healthcare programs, including I checked with Jeff Stein 70 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: directly on this, because none of the articles I was 71 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: reading mentioned the Medicare prescription drug pricing negotiation that appears 72 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: to be probably out very tenuous. There are a number 73 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: of senators, not just the ones who have, you know, 74 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: made a business of being obnoxious in front of cameras 75 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: on this stuff, but there are a number of other 76 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: senators who take a lot of money from big Zarma 77 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: who are standing in the way of that extraordinarily popular 78 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: proposal that Democrats have promised for more than a decade, 79 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: in which has about eighty some percent support. So the 80 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: bottom line is this proposal sucks. There's very little in 81 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: it to like, even if the one thing that progressives 82 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: said that they had to have, you know, they said 83 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: no climate, no deal. That was the one thing they 84 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: were actually clear about. Very very little climate provisions here, 85 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: and honestly, very little to get excited about in this 86 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: entire package. What I think is hilarious is all of 87 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: the stuff getting put out. You know, it broke this 88 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: morning from the Wall Street Journal Crystal that the community 89 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: college provision was killed by whom, the four year college 90 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: degree industry. They lobbied hard against community college Why because 91 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: that would disrupt their corrupt pipeline to builk people out 92 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: of tens of thousands of dollars by applying to the 93 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: four year college degree industry. And we're about to get 94 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: to some even more of this stuff in the taxi section. 95 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: You guys really aren't going to believe. I do think 96 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: that it really has everything. That the only thing that 97 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: was out and is now back in is salt, because 98 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: there are dozens of members from the Northeast who are 99 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: going to bat for salt and say we will not 100 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: vote for this package period unless it includes the salt deduction. 101 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: Once again, in order to reiterate for all of you, 102 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: the salt deduction, the state and local tax deduction was 103 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: taken out by the GOP tax bill. They want to 104 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: go ahead and bring it back. It is overwhelmingly ninety 105 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: percent of its benefit goes to people who make over 106 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: one million dollars a year. There's no way to spend it. 107 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: It is a tax cut for the rich. In fact, 108 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: given the previously meager tax increases on people who make 109 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: a couple hundred thousand dollars, and we will also get 110 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: to whether that even is going to continue, those people 111 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: would actually not pay anything more under the original Biden 112 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: tax plan because of the salt thing. Some of them 113 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: would get a tax cut overall. Actually, Crystal, if they 114 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: don't raise taxes, which we'll talk about the next segment, 115 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: they will be getting a massive tax cut if this 116 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: does go ahead and put into place hundreds of thousands 117 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: of dollars in the level. But I think it's important 118 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: that we focus on the part which will actually impact 119 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: people's lives. And they are screwing around with childcare in 120 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: pretty much the exact same way they did with Obamacare. 121 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: For middle class Americans, people's childcare prices under this would 122 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: almost certainly rise by thousands of dollars. Right, So let 123 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: me explain this part and we can put Matt Bruni 124 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: has been the one, the analyst who's on the left right. 125 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a guy who wants to see 126 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: childcare be affordable and thinks that they should go a 127 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: lot further in what they're doing here. So Bruni points out, Okay, 128 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: what the bill says right now is they are lifting 129 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: the pay of childcare workers, which is really important because 130 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: childcare workers are dramatically, dramatically underpaid and so they definitely 131 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: deserve a raise, there's no doubt about it. But then 132 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: where's the money going to come from on the other 133 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: side to pay for this race. Well, the thing that 134 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: makes sense is for the government to kind of fill 135 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: the gap so that consumers can afford and workers can 136 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: afford childcare for their kids. So if they want to work, 137 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: they're able to work, and so childcare workers can themselves 138 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: earn a living wage and earn a decent salary for 139 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: taking care of all of our kids. That's what makes sense. Well, 140 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: they do that at the low end of the income spectrum. 141 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: But if you are a middle class worker and your 142 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: income is one dollar above the levels they set here, 143 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: you are likely to see a dramatic increase in your 144 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: childcare cost to the tune of somewhere around thirteen thousand 145 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: dollars a year. And just to give you a sense 146 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: here of some of the numbers that we're talking about. 147 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: The democrats childcare proposal mandates higher wages for childcare workers, 148 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: but then does not follow through on the public subsidies 149 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: for all families. A result will be a massive increase 150 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: in childcare fees for families with incomes slightly above their 151 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: states median income. Oh my gosh, So the national median 152 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: income and this again, this is all set state by state. 153 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: So whatever your state's median income is, if you're a 154 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: dollar above that, thirteen thousand dollars a year more in childcare. 155 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: I think the national median income is like sixty seven 156 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year. So you're not talking about wealthy 157 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 1: people here. These are This is the core of the 158 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: middle class. Now I'm in the upper middle class. So 159 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's another perfect example where because they want 160 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: to means tests and they want to save money, and 161 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: they have to make it so freaking complicated number one, 162 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: that it's hard to understand. And number two, you're hurting 163 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: a lot of people who you know are going to 164 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: be This is going to be dramatically unpopular with a 165 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: lot of people, and more importantly, it's going to put 166 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: them in a really bad place. I just looked. I mean, 167 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: in one of the highest cost states in the in 168 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: the United States, in New York, the household income there 169 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: is sixty three ninety eight dollars, so probably you know, 170 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: ten fifteen thousand dollars or whatever. Lower in like Kansas, 171 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: Nebraska are somewhere. But these are not rich folks we're 172 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: talking about. And again I'm talking about household income, not 173 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: individual income. Josh Barrow put this particularly well, and that's 174 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: why I look at this just purely as Obamacare once again, 175 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: quote this design is too complex. Do we really want 176 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: the ACA rollout all over again with sliding scale benefits 177 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: and cliffs in a way that is surely incomprehensible to 178 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: parents relying on states as partners assume a design that 179 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: intentionally adds costs won't hit families, And as we're pointing out, 180 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: the design absolutely would increase that cost. If you like 181 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: your childcare provider, does not look like it will be 182 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: able to keep that childcare provider. And Crystal I don't 183 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: think it takes a genius to say, thirteen thousand dollars 184 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: an increase per cost of after tax income is what 185 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: almost a fifth of what these people are making already. 186 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: Actually no on the after tax side, even much much more. 187 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: And so when you consider how much of an increase 188 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: that would be for a lot of these people, it 189 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: would actually almost conversely probably lead to women dropping out 190 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: of the workforce. That's exactly right. I'm almost certain right. 191 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: If your price is going to go up thirteen thousand dollars, 192 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: that could erase somebody's making twenty five thousand dollars a 193 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: year in pre tax income or something like that. And 194 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: then after you consider the cost, you're just gonna say, 195 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: I might as well just not work. So congratulations, I guess. 196 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: And there's weird dynamic where then if mom drops out 197 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: of the workforce and they're earning less money, then they 198 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: fall below the meeting. Then they could afford child there, 199 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: but then she can if she goes back to work, 200 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: then they're making too much and they can't afford. These 201 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: are like the original welfare penalties. Look, I don't want 202 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: to pick there are other The universal pre K proposal 203 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: here is actually good it's the one thing that you 204 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: can look at and say, Okay, that would be a 205 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: good thing. But you know, it all comes back to 206 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: a number of incredibly dumb, strategic and tactical mistakes. Number one, 207 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: by deciding to do this all through reconciliation. Number one, 208 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: there's been incredibly little explanation, conversation, or pressure put on 209 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: anyone around the specific proposals here, which are really popular, 210 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: each of them individually on their own. People look at 211 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: this and it's just like, you know, it's just a 212 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: bunch of a package of stuff, and it's hard to 213 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: really dig in to the details and feel the impact 214 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: of what each of these proposals would actually look like. 215 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: So that's been a disaster. That's allowed Mansion Cinema and 216 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: all the other bad actors in this to effectively make 217 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: this about the top line number rather than the actual 218 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: specifics of the bill. So that's been a disaster. Of course. 219 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: The other thing that's been a disaster, part of why 220 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: this is all hamstrung right now, is because they decided 221 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: to separate the thing that business does want, which is 222 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: the infrastructure package, from the thing that business doesn't want, 223 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: which is the social welfare spending. The minute that they 224 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: pulled those two things apart, they made this whole package 225 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 1: much much more vulnerable. And yes, they had this complicated 226 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: legislative maneuver to try to keep the two things glue together, 227 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: but that created a real vulnerability here for the entire package. 228 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: And the other thing that I'll say that was a 229 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: dramatic mistake is Biden wanted to get this bipartisan win. 230 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 1: That's why they stripped out the infrastructure pieces and had 231 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: them on their own, which is again the part that 232 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: the business community actually wants. There's a bunch of goodies 233 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: in there for them, much of public private partnerships that 234 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: they'll profit off of. And so he was obsessed with 235 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: this whole idea of can I get you ten Republicans 236 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: to vote for my thing? And that wasted a lot 237 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: of time and a lot of momentum. So much of 238 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: a presidency is about getting done what you can in 239 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: the first hundred days. And instead, because they had to 240 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: have these long drawn out negotiations around the infrastructure package 241 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: and try and figure out what Republicans could possibly support, 242 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: it's dragged on months and months and months. Meanwhile, Biden, 243 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: of course, is sinking in the polls. I mean to 244 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: boks that were not seen since Trump and he ain't 245 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: got the same enthusiasm. There's a new poll that's just 246 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: Trump has higher approval rating than Biden right now. So 247 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: that's where we are, and that's in part because they 248 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: have allowed this thing to linger for so so many months. 249 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: It's a mess, that's the bottom line. It's a total mess. 250 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: It's possibly worse than Obamacare in terms of how it 251 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: would actually work out politically. And look, just ask yourself, 252 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: is there any reason why you think right now that 253 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: this bill needs to pass? Go and ask people around you. 254 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: I honestly, people were more invested in the Obamacare one 255 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: than they are in this. Nobody knows what's actually in 256 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: this bill. Everybody thinks it's like some weird stuff going 257 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: on in DC one point six, one point nine. I 258 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: don't really understand. Bottom line is it looks like if 259 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: you're rely on childcare, which they've been pushing now for 260 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: a long time, price actually might go up for you. 261 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: I just think politically it's a total and complete disaster. Meanwhile, 262 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got you know, all the coronavirus approval 263 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: rating that Biden has is just going dramatically down. His 264 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: independent number today is at twenty eight percent. Twenty eight percent, 265 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: a group that he won in the high fifties whenever 266 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: he ran for whenever he had presence, very high quality polls. 267 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: That's really yeah. I think on Monday we'll do a 268 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: whole set because we've had now I think six seven 269 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: different polls that came out with the same thing. Look, 270 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: I mean you should look at the average, and in 271 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: the average amongst the independence, it's an average of around 272 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: a twenty to thirty percent drop. And I don't think 273 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: that it's an accident that they're focusing on this stuff. 274 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: Meanwhile people are wondering what the hell is going on 275 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: with Corona and more. It's a nightmare. I mean, I guess, 276 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: should we move on to taxes? Yeah? I shouldn't explained. 277 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: I do want to move on to the taxi piece. 278 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: I do want to emphasize what you said about Obamacare, 279 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: because part of why people were invested in that is 280 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: because it was one thing. It was health caresting condition, 281 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: it was healthcare. People can understand. People get on, Okay, 282 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: this's a debate about healthcare. What's my healthcare price going 283 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: to go up? This price going to go down? Is 284 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: there going to be like it was about one thing. 285 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: When you have a debate about fifty things, it's kind 286 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: of hard to wrap your head around what your vested 287 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: interests are in all of it. And you've got, of course, 288 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: you know, predictably, the media is terrible at covering these 289 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: sorts of things as well. But it's not just a 290 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: media failure. It is a dramatic Democratic Party failure and 291 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: should definitely be seen as such. Speaking of failure, taxes, 292 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: So we covered for you. That's basically the social welfare part, 293 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: and that's the part that honestly, even though some of 294 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: these pieces are still moving, is more fully formed. The 295 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: pay fors are sort of right now, like, eh, who 296 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: knows exactly anything? Drug emoji? Yeah, that's exactly exactly what 297 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: it is. The latest from our good friend Kirsten Cinema 298 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: is that listener this Wall Street Journal tear sheet up 299 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: on the screen. You gotta love this so and I 300 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: love this, I mean hate it. Cinema's opposition Steimey's Democrats 301 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: planned tax rate increases. Let me read you from this piece. 302 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: It says Senator Kirsten Cinema has previously told lobbyists that 303 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: she is opposed to any increase in the top tax rates, 304 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: either for individuals or for corporations. That's according to a 305 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: person familiar with her remarks. But her stance is now 306 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 1: pushing Democrats to plan more seriously for a bill that 307 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: does not include those major revenue increases. So I love 308 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: how is this didn't even come from Like, yeah, her 309 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: lobbyists didn't come from the Democratic Party. She's not leaking 310 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: into the press, the people she's talking to about this. 311 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: It's not her constituents, certainly, it's not you guys, it's lobbyist. 312 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: That's how we're getting insights into how Kirsten Cinemas go 313 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: into the mat to make sure that high income, high 314 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: wealth individuals, high income individuals, and corporations don't pay any 315 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: higher rates of taxes. It just really pissed me, Cristal 316 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: when we talk about this, not even about this, but 317 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: in the entire design of the plan from the very beginning, 318 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: this has been a total blank check for the billionaire class. 319 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: And it's actually what's great about this is some of 320 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: you who followed us for a while might remember there's 321 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: a billionaire I have a feud with. Clifford, asked a 322 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: hedge fund manager. He's a big libertary among us, doesn't 323 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: have a feud with it. He thinks he made it 324 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: out on his own, even though he takes takes nice 325 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: tax rates from the state of Connecticut for his fake 326 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: hedge fund business. Don't suit me, Cliff allegedly fake hedge 327 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: fund business where he conjures money up out of nothing. 328 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: But I gotta be honest. The billionaire himself riding in 329 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal kind of calling it like it is. 330 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen. I find 331 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: it remarkable for how he's willing to just say the 332 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: quiet part out loud. His headline is Biden's real tax 333 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: target isn't the super rich. His plan would sock it 334 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: to the quote working rich whose taxes are already high, 335 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: not billionaire investors. He points to you by working rich, doctors, lawyers, 336 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: other high income professionals. I'm not standing for those people whatsoever. 337 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: But here it is from the horse's mouth that this 338 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: billionaire is saying Biden's tax plan isn't going to do 339 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: a damn thing in order to touch me. And you 340 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: can see clear as day that the billionaire tax rates nothing. 341 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: They're not being touched whatsoever. Those making you know, a 342 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: couple hundred thousand dollars a year like doctors and lawyers. Yeah, 343 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: their taxes would possibly go up, But cinema says no, 344 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: not whatsoever. Now, Biden, after the Cinema thing, has apparently 345 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: been floating a possible increase in trying to go after 346 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: these people. Let's put this up there on the screen 347 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: where Biden aids are now pitching taxes on billionaires and 348 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: stockpi backs a higher corporate rate as appear to fall 349 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: out of the economic package. But here's the thing. I 350 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: already went back and checked. Joe Manchin has already said 351 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: he will only abide by a couple of percentage increase 352 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: in the corporate tax rate. What do we already know 353 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: about the corporate tax rate? Most corporations don't pay it 354 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: almost whatsoever. It's basically a fake rate given the amount 355 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: of exemptions and write offs and all these other people have. 356 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: I believe Amazon at one point paid zero percent or 357 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: actually ge I believe was paid by the government in 358 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: terms of its tax rates. Just to give you an 359 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: idea of how this stuff works. Yeah, very very fair system. Meanwhile, 360 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: people have to pay, you know, exhorbitant amounts of payroll 361 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: taxes when they make like ten grand a year. But 362 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: you check this out, what do we also know, which 363 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: is that included in that where he's talking about the 364 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: tax on billionaires. What they're talking about is capital gains. 365 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: What did Kirson Cinema say, Go back and read the language. 366 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: She says, not agreed to a capital gains increase in taxes. 367 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 1: These people, the billionaire class, have this thing dialed in. 368 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: There's only one way in order to touch their income 369 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: because it's all held inequities. Step up basis, the carried 370 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: interest loophole and the capital gains tax rate. You don't 371 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: touch those three. The richest people in America, the top 372 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: point one percent, they won't pay a time. And Cliff 373 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: is saying it out in the open. He's like, look, 374 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,719 Speaker 1: you're not taxing me, You're not touching me. Yep, And 375 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: he's exactly right. So, by the way, you guys, remember 376 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: that six hundred dollars proposal, Well now it's still ten thousand. 377 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: But ten thousand dollars, if you consider inflows and outflows, 378 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: is still you know, below the average like poverty wage 379 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: of what people make in this country, which means that 380 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: the irs under that proposal to increase the inflow outflow 381 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: reporting mechanism to ten thousand would still be able to 382 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: target bartenders, handymen, people who are ten ninety nine contractors, 383 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: people who do freelance work and all of that, and 384 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: they can look exactly what's in the bank account and 385 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: they can look at what people are reporting. Now, I'm 386 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: not saying people shouldn't pay their taxes, but I would 387 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: just say, whenever it comes to enforcement, maybe we go 388 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: after the billionaires who don't pay any of their taxes. 389 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: That's as opposed to the guys, way more complicated, way 390 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: more litigious. Yes, And so look, I don't think it's 391 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: that like the IRS is dying to only go after 392 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: low hanging fruit. But they've been starved of resource. It's 393 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: easepoint where Yeah, that's that's what they're able to do 394 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: at this point they have. It's not that they don't 395 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: have the legal tools to be able to audit wealthy people. 396 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: They just don't have the resources or potentially the technical 397 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: expertise to be able to do it. Just to back 398 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: up for a second on these taxes piece, because I 399 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: think this is actually really important and get it can 400 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: get a little bit fuzzy and a little bit complicated. 401 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: I'm not crying for the quote unquote working rich as 402 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: Cliff puts in here, but he is correct to point 403 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: out that effectively, when you're increasing, when you're talking about 404 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: increasing just the marginal tax rate, you are leaving the 405 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: billionaire class untouched completely. The biggest thing that they use, 406 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: the biggest potential loophole in the entire system is this 407 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: step up basis thing. And we've explained it here a 408 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: couple of times, so just to go over it again 409 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: because it is a little bit technical and a little 410 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: bit complicated. What a lot of folks do has been 411 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: reported that Elon Musk is one example of a person 412 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: who does it, but it's not just Elon. It's very 413 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: common about this among the ultra rich. Is rather than 414 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: certainly taking an income or rather than selling the stock 415 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: or whatever asset they own, they'll borrow against that asset 416 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: for the course of their lifetime. That way, they're not 417 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: actually realizing again, but they don't even they don't even 418 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: have to pay capital gains text and they don't pay 419 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: anything on it. Then when they die, they leave it 420 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: to their air, and that is when the step up 421 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: basis comes into play. Their air is able to recognize 422 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: that asset at the new level without having taxes on 423 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: any of the increase in value of the asset over 424 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: the course of the lifetime. So that stock that appreciated 425 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: and appreciated that Tesla's stock or whatever it is over 426 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 1: the course of elon must life that is never taxed, 427 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: never taxed, It's just lost. And so that's why they 428 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: were thinking originally of going after this step up basis thing. 429 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: And when that fell out, people like Claire mccaskell and others, 430 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: where were some of the villains getting paid to make 431 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: sure that this particular way of targeting billionaires fell out. 432 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: That left very little in the way of impact that 433 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: things that would actually impact the billionaire class. So that's 434 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: what he's pointing out. Now, where do we stand today? 435 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: It's hard to say. I mean, Cinema is now saying 436 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to raise the top rate at all. 437 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: The step up basis and these other things that I 438 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: would like to see have already been sort of shot 439 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: down carried interest loophole. Maybe I did see a hilarious 440 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: item that Reverend Al Sharpton is arguing against closing the 441 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: carried interest loophole, which only benefits Wall Street gules because 442 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: it will quote hurt black business people trying to build wealth, 443 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: so using identity to stand for like the richest people 444 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: in the country. Incredible, incredible, classic stuff. The latest latest latest, 445 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: according to Jeff Stein, is if Cinema ruled out those 446 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: other things, they're looking at maybe a corporate minimum tax, 447 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: so that you wouldn't at least have a situation where 448 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: ge or Amazon or whoever isn't paying anything in taxes whatsoever. 449 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: And that's apparently something that has pretty broad support. Even 450 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: Republicans feel like, you know, these corporations probably should pay 451 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: something in taxes. So that's kind of the latest. But 452 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: it's all very very uncertain, and how much can you 453 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: get from that also don't know. Yeah, I wouldn't hold 454 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: my breath. I think it's a perfect example of if 455 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: anything does go into this thing, I bet you that 456 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars one well, actually, you know, the inflows 457 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: and outflows that will increase tax audits on the poorest Americans, 458 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: that one will get in there, every single other one. 459 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this interest group, no, this interest group. No. 460 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: At the end of this thing, I bet you what 461 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: will happen is that that IRIS supposal will be included 462 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: there's no way they're going to pass something without salt, 463 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: which means there is almost certain to be a massive 464 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: tax cut for the rich in this bill without touching 465 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: any of the billionaires, possibly a modest increase in the 466 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: corporate tax rate. R I think it's a total carbon 467 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: tax too. Well, Mansion shot it down. He said, quote, 468 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: there is no discussion of a carbon tax. Thank you, 469 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: thank you, Joe. So anyway, it's a mess. Hey. So 470 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: remember how we told you how awesome premium membership was. Well, 471 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: here we are again to remind you that becoming a 472 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: premium member means you don't have to listen to our 473 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: constant please for you to subscribe. So what are you 474 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: waiting for? Become a premium member today by going to 475 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com, which you can click on in the 476 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: show notes. Let's get to this message Trump social media. 477 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: If this broke late last night, we had to hurriedly 478 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: edit the show. I saw it. I was like, we've 479 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: got to bring it to everybody. The time is here, 480 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. Former President Donald Trump is launching a 481 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: new media company. Let's put this up there on the screen. 482 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: It is called Trump Media and Technology Group. TMTG. Part 483 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: of the release is right there. There will be a 484 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: social media component of it called Truth Capitals Social, and 485 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: the website has TMTG News listed as its brand. Let 486 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: me read here. Trump Media and Technology Group Digital World 487 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: Acquisition Corp. Has entered into a definitive merger agreement for 488 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: a combination that will result in the Trump Media and 489 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: Technology Group with an enterprise value of eight hundred and 490 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: seventy five million, increasing to accumulate evaluation of one point 491 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: seven billion. TMTG will soon be launching a social network 492 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: named truth Social. Truth Social is now available for pre 493 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: order in the Apple app Store. Truth Social plans to 494 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: begin It's launched for invited guests in November of twenty 495 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: twenty one, and a nationwide rollout is expected in the 496 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: first quarter of twenty twenty two. Anybody who wants can 497 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: go to Truthsocial dot com to sign up for the 498 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: invite list. And President Donald J. Trump, he's the chairman 499 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: of TMTG, said quote, I created Truth Social and TMTG 500 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: to stand up to the tyranny of big tech. We 501 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: live in a world where the Taliban has a huge 502 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: presence on Twitter, yet your favorite American president has been silenced. 503 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: I mean, look, he does. You's right about that point there, 504 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,719 Speaker 1: This is unacceptable. I am excited to send out my 505 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: first truth on truth Social. So it looks like truths 506 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: will be like tweets on truth Social very soon. TMGT 507 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: was founded with a mission to give a voice to all, 508 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,479 Speaker 1: so we can see there that they've got truth Social 509 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: TMTG plus. What they're teasing there for TMTG plus is 510 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: a subscription video service, So I guess Trump is technically 511 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: now a competitor of our script Well there you go, 512 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: very interesting and TMTG news. You know, I have a 513 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 1: lot of interesting thoughts on this. Number one is does 514 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: this mean he's going to run again for president? There 515 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,959 Speaker 1: was a lot of discussion, which, look, this is going 516 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: to make Trump fantastically wealthy, even more so than he 517 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: already is. I have no doubt that how many I 518 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: mean millions of people will sign up in order to 519 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: for his subscription video platform. You just think about you know, millions. 520 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: Look at Netflix doesn't take that many people to take 521 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: people paying ten dollars a month or whatever to become 522 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: fantastically wealthy. When we're talking about millions and millions and 523 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: something like this doesn't take a technology platform like this 524 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: doesn't take that much money to run either. There's not 525 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: much in the way of overhead cost. You're not producing 526 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: a good or exactly it's twenty twenty one with it. 527 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: I guess they can't use Amazon Web Services, but when 528 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: you know server company or whatever and a basic platform 529 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: UI in order to have some sort of like Twitter 530 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: like functionality, I mean, we have Gad, We've got Parlor, 531 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: We've got all these other ones out there. I don't 532 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: think it would be that hard for him to step up. 533 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: It's not a surprise here that this is structured as 534 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: an s PAC for what people know. It's a way 535 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: in order to go public while still having private investors 536 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: and not having to IPO. And you can actually hide 537 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: some of who the money is behind this stuff. I 538 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: actually would love Yeah. I mean, I'm sure every journalist 539 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: or whatever is going to pour over the filings. I'm 540 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: really curious to see who is financing this thing, to 541 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: see how much of his own money is in it. 542 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: But the main question is on the politics of it. 543 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: I mean, if he's going to be running this business, 544 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: and I guarantee you he's going to be making a 545 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: ton of money from it. Does that mean that he 546 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: would want to run again for president? And I saw 547 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: takes kind of you know, flying around every which way, 548 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: which is one was that, look, this sets him up 549 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: for you know, true comfort. I'm not saying it wasn't, 550 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: you know, like a poor man or whatever. But anybody 551 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: who's ever been in the real estate business knows, you know, 552 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: one thing is always depreciating, selling or whatever. It's always complicated, 553 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: You're never really liquid. This is going to generate a 554 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: lot of cash for Trump. But second is would he 555 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: really dedicate himself to trying to form his own social 556 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: media network before running for president and thinking that that 557 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,719 Speaker 1: would be a viable Because one of the things that 558 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: you and I always pointed to was in the early days, 559 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: Trump's advisors were all behind the scenes saying, we cannot 560 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: run for president if we're not back on Facebook. Yeah. 561 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: They're like, we just can't do it. They're like, if 562 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: we're not on Facebook, we will not be able to 563 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: raise the money that we need. Same with Twitter. We 564 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: needed social media. Social media was key to Trump's win 565 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. It was key to the million, you know, 566 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: multimillion dollar juggernaut that he generated throughout the campaign. His team, 567 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: to his credit, were very very good at raising money 568 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: YouTube as well. I remember our channel used to get 569 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: so many Trump ads. And what's fascinating on all of 570 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: that is if they're abandoning it and effectively going to 571 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna call it the ghetto because it'll have 572 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: millions of users, but look, it's not Twitter, it's not Facebook, 573 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: it won't have the billions in order to spread the reach. 574 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: Is that a kind of you know, white flag of 575 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: we're going to make our money and we're probably not 576 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: going to run for president again. You could read a 577 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: lot of different ways into it, but it is pretty fascinating. 578 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,719 Speaker 1: It's just in that way it could be seen as 579 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: a kind of a capitulation. Yeah, in a way, in 580 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: a certain way, because yeah, they they behind the scenes 581 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: believe Facebook was absolutely instrumental to both campaigns, and they 582 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: used it way more aggressively and put way more money 583 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: into Facebook in particular than their opponents did. There's another 584 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: thing that's interesting here. First of all, let's say, when 585 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: this first news first came out, I kind of rolled 586 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: my eyes because he did that, like, you know, embarrassing 587 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: effort as his own social media platform. Before that was 588 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: just like a blog face Oh right, yeah, we're shut down. Yeah, 589 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: which they shut down because it was it was totally 590 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: and effective. Nobody was paying attention to what he was 591 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: saying there. But this is a much more sort of 592 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: fully formed and serious effort. It would seem to your 593 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: point about it's not going to have the reach that 594 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: he did on Twitter. I mean partly, Look, the reality 595 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: is on Twitter, you have every elite is on the platform, 596 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: and so what he would say there they couldn't avoid. 597 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: They engaged with a lot, they covered, it became news 598 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: all of that stuff. And we've already seen that with 599 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: him off of Twitter, even as he's putting out his 600 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: statements and whatever, it just doesn't generate the same amount 601 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: of elite freak out as it did when he was 602 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: on Twitter. And I would believe that would be continued 603 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: to be the case on truth because you know, I 604 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: right now every journalist in DC is on Twitter. I 605 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: don't think every journalist in DC is going to ultimately 606 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: get on Truth. Well, they might only to report on 607 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: what Trump is saying, but it won't be part of 608 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: the same site. It's not the same it's not the 609 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: same deal. It's not the same ecosystem. The other thing 610 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: that I just have to mention here, which is hilarious, is, 611 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: of course this is all pitches like, oh, this is 612 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: the free speech platform, et cetera. Apparently one of the 613 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: rules of the platform is you're not allowed to disparage, tarnish, 614 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: or otherwise harm in our opinion US and or the 615 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: site US. So one of the uses would be Trump's 616 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: So like, yeah, so apparently I mean in that way, 617 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: Twitter is wildly more free. You can certainly criticize Jack 618 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: on there. People do it all the time. We criticize 619 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: the platform itself. People also do that all the time. 620 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: So it's just very revealing to me. It reminded me 621 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: my favorite moment when Mike Lindell was announcing his free 622 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: speech platform and he's like, free speech, but no cursing, 623 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: no taking the Lord's name in vain, or no pornography, 624 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. It just reveals that what they 625 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: mean by free speech is we get to control what 626 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: things are censored in what things aren't. It's a battle 627 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: over really, like who gets to control the space. They 628 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: aren't actually committed to quote unquote free speech principles, as 629 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: evidence by the fact that you're apparently not allowed to 630 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: criticize the former president on the site. I would not 631 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: say that that qualifies as free speech. I will say, 632 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: you know who should be worried as hell about this? 633 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: Fox Nation and a lot of these other subscription services 634 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: on the right, there have been a lot of pro 635 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: Trump personalities who have been raking in a lot of 636 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: money in cash, kind of basically grifting off of his name. 637 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,399 Speaker 1: And you know, I think everybody knows who I'm talking about. 638 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: But if you go and you consider all of the 639 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: ways that Fox and radio companies, websites and others have 640 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: been able to bundle kind of like pro Trump sentiment 641 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: into media, well, Trump is cutting out the middleman. One 642 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: of the things he hates most is people profiting off 643 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: of his name. So he's like, hey, you should pay 644 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: me actually being Trump. So this is the fascinating thing. 645 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm already thinking there are so many you know, 646 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: right wing radio hosts and more, which you know they're 647 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: super pro Trump. All their money and audience and all 648 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: that comes from Trump. What's going to happen in world 649 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: when Trump himself becomes the person who owns the company. Right, 650 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: So if you think about it. That means that you know, 651 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: Cumulus Radio they employ like Bongino or somebody. I mean, 652 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: what's gonna happen. I mean, Bongino has this deal with Cumulus. 653 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: I know he's thinking about quitting or whatever because of 654 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: the vaccine mandate. But if you think about that and 655 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: then Trump himself, ay, who is he going to hire. 656 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:23,919 Speaker 1: Most of the people who are the biggest pro Trump 657 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: personalities already work at Daily Wire or you know Daily 658 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: or Daily Wire or Cumulus or Fox or Fox Nation 659 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: or whatever. Maybe they have their own podcasts. He's going 660 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: to have either trouble buying out those personalities and then 661 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: starting his own, or he could just hire his own 662 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,439 Speaker 1: and make his the official one, which would put them 663 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: effectively out of business. I'm thinking just this because I 664 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: come from the conservative media background. I mean, this is 665 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 1: actually from a business perspective, a seismic event. If I'm Fox, 666 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: Fox Digital or any of these people, I would be 667 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 1: worried as hell. This is a This is a direct 668 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: threat and competitor to Fox News, especially because we know 669 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: because we follow this stuff too. It's not just liberal 670 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: media that has suffered in the Biden Yeah, the Fox people, 671 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: Conservative media it's all down across the board. So they've 672 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: already taken a huge hit in terms of views and 673 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: clicks and revenue and all of that. So when you 674 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: then layer on top of that, now we're just like 675 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: a pale imitation of pro Trump as compared to actually 676 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: being Donald Trump. It's yeah, it's like, how do you 677 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: compete whenever Trump himself is the person who's got and 678 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,439 Speaker 1: your whole identity isn't about an ideology or a value 679 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: system or whatever. It's just about like shilling for this 680 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: one man. So it does make it kind of complicated 681 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 1: for them. I really feel for them. Yeah, they're gonna here. 682 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: I'm telling you two years from now, three years from now, 683 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: I bet you there's gonna be a lot of conservative 684 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: media organizations going out of business. This is going to 685 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: be a big, big, big thing. I think Trump that 686 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,320 Speaker 1: you know. I hate to say it, but TMTG is 687 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: going to be a very successful product. I can guarantee 688 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: it successful. Financially yeah, financially. Politically yeah, if your goal 689 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: to bring a full circle, if your goal is to 690 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: run for president and win again, this is not a 691 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: smart doesn't look like it at all. Could be one 692 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: of the little you know, indicators that he may not 693 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: be running again, but hey, who knows. Well, let me see. Okay, 694 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: let's move on. This is a really fascinating thing on behind. 695 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: There was a lot of discussion around Southwest Airlines whether 696 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 1: there was a sickout or not. There was contravening evidence 697 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: kind of in both directions. But I do have to 698 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: say the fact that Southwest's new announcement does look like 699 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: the sickout may have been part of some of the 700 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: flight shortage and what we were seeing. Let's put this 701 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: up there on the screen from CNNBC. So Southwest has 702 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: actually dropped its plan to put unvaccinated staff on unpaid 703 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: leave starting in December. This was really tough for them, Crystal, because, 704 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: as we know, Southwest was a federal government contractor, and 705 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: contractors were subject by the Biden Administration's vaccine mandate in 706 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: order to either get vaccinated or not. The airlines the 707 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: order that require fired them to get vaccinated or receive 708 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: an exemption for medical or religious reasons. So they scrapped 709 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: the plan there, but they have not yet received the 710 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: religious or medical exemption as of the federal deadline in December. 711 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 1: What it looks like is that there seems to be 712 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: some sort of negotiation happening. They already have an incredibly 713 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,520 Speaker 1: high vaccination rate amongst their pilots. We don't know the 714 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: exact Southwest one, but we do know and I'm about 715 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: to get to this with Delta Airlines, but it is 716 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: interesting that Southwest and Delta have both taken away their 717 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: kind of punitive measures given that they have overwhelmingly high 718 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: vaccination rates. We saw that with United Airlines staffers. I 719 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: think it was like ninety eight percent. I mean, at 720 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,399 Speaker 1: the end of the day that the amount of people 721 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: who were terminated for not being vaccinated was like two 722 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five something like, you know, a rounding 723 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: error in terms of what the actual numbers of staffers were. 724 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: But whenever it comes to pilots, it does look like 725 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: like I said, I mean, whether you believe Southwest or 726 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: not that it was whether or you know, right wing 727 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: what have you believed they'd see entirely a stick out, 728 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: It does seem there was a big confluence of events 729 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: that there was enough of an organic pushback that two 730 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: of the airlines are taking away the punitive measures for 731 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: not getting the vaccine on even though they do have 732 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: ninety plus percent vaccination rate amongst our pilots. It's also 733 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: worth noting here there's a distinction. So federal government contractors 734 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: are subject to a more stringent vaccine. It's an actual mandate, 735 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: actual man, whereas what was announced for businesses with one 736 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: hundred people or more was vaccine or test. For federal 737 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: government contractors, which these large airlines qualify as federal government contractors, 738 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: you either have to get vaccinated or you have to 739 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: offer some kind of legitimate medical or religious excuse. And 740 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: so that's what Southwest is kind of leaning into, like, 741 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: all right, guys, if y'all don't want to get vaccinated, 742 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: you better come up with something good for us see 743 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: here in the next couple of weeks. And it's fairly unclear, 744 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: at least as I read it, what will happen if 745 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: ultimately you do end up with a group of employees 746 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: who don't get vaccinated and they're not able to come 747 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,879 Speaker 1: up with anything approaching a sort of legitimate excuse. They 748 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,399 Speaker 1: leave it unsaid what's going to ultimately happen, But they're 749 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,720 Speaker 1: effectively sort of taking the pressure off, giving people more time, 750 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: encouraging them to get their exemptions in and move forward 751 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: with that process because you know, I mean, there's no 752 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: doubt of whether the chaos was because of a sick out. 753 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: There's no doubt that there have been protests. There's been 754 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: a lawsuit filed by the pilot's union, so there was 755 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: certainly pushback within the organization. Absolutely, And you know, that's 756 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 1: just something I haven't seen the media acknowledge that one. 757 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: You know, despite all of the people putting up the 758 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: Southwest Airline CEO being like it has nothing to do 759 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: with it. I mean, I don't think that this sor 760 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,720 Speaker 1: this announcement's going to follow that if it had nothing 761 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: to do with it. We should also say I saw 762 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: that religious exemptions whenever it came to the COVID vaccine. 763 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: It's complicated. So like right now, the Supreme Court actually 764 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: just rejected at challenge to the main COVID nineteen vaccine mandate. 765 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: And this was actually Justice Brier who turned away a 766 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: religious challenge to the requirement. Now, again, this isn't dealing 767 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: a way with religious exemptions, the religious challenge to the 768 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,879 Speaker 1: idea of the main mandate itself, but it is an 769 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: indicator that these types of things would not necessarily be 770 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: enough in order to come all the way to the 771 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: Supreme Court and strike down the national policy. There are 772 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: no major religions that have said that the vaccine is 773 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: against my religion. Actually, if anything, Frank, they've been encouraging, yes, exactly. 774 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: So it makes it a little bit challenging to come 775 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: up with a sincere religious objection when every major religion 776 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: in the country is in support of In general, there's 777 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: different views. I'm sure there's somebody out there, but yes, 778 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: and so you put this together with the Delta Airlines ceo. 779 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: Let's put this one up there, the Delta Airline CEO 780 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: at Bastion. This was from a couple of days ago. 781 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: But interesting when you pair them together. It refuses to 782 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: impose what he called the quote divisive vaccine mandate. But again, 783 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: you know, it just strikes me. Ninety percent of the 784 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: staff of the pilots already have the vaccine, and because 785 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 1: they quote work collaborative with employers, they don't want them 786 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: to threaten to be fired. And again, though we really 787 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,760 Speaker 1: don't know yet how this is going to go ahead 788 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: and be we don't know how this is going to 789 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,359 Speaker 1: be interpreted, whether the exemptions are going to be able 790 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: to go through. I was reading recently about religious exemptions 791 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,919 Speaker 1: and the COVID nineteen vaccine, I mean it's complicated because 792 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 1: part of the problem was is we saw an abuse 793 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: of religious exemption whenever it came to the measles vaccine 794 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,880 Speaker 1: and we saw these oh yeah, I mean this was 795 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 1: a huge thing in New York State because I mean, 796 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: I'll just say it, there were a lot of Orthodox 797 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: Jewish communities who didn't want to get vaccinated and there 798 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: was a massive fight in New York about what talking 799 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: about recently, Oh yeah, it's only a couple of years ago. 800 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: This is I think we covered it actually on Rising 801 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,320 Speaker 1: with the whenever we interviewed the Surgeon General. I remember 802 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: around religious exams because of large measles outbreaks that were happening. 803 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: You know, if once you have a critical amass of 804 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: the population is unvaccinated, actually leads to the outbreak amongst 805 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: like children and became a whole thing. And then New 806 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: York State wanted to remove the religious exemption completely. It 807 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: gets very, very very dicey whenever it comes to religious 808 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 1: freedom and all that. We see the same thing in Minnesota, 809 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: I think with the Somali American population. Obviously in California, 810 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: Colorado actually randomly has and with them it's more like 811 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 1: the hippiest that's like a crunchy granola. Yeah, this is 812 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,359 Speaker 1: a horseshoe there. Well, it's just fascinating, right, because this 813 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,320 Speaker 1: will set up for possible challenges in court. We've seen 814 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: the religious exemption challenge to the idea of a mandate 815 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: itself has not yet gone through to the Supreme Court, 816 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: and from the people I spoke to, they don't expect 817 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: it to be there, especially given that amongst private employers 818 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 1: that they have the testing requirement. It seems to be 819 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: that it's not going to be an all out mandate 820 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: or not. The problem is actually amongst these special government contractors, 821 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: but Southwest and Delta now giving their pilots some time 822 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: in order to try and get their affairs not actually 823 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: going to upper out fire them. I think like United had, 824 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: and that ultimately could result in a better equilibrium situation. 825 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,359 Speaker 1: I mean, look, they're ninety something percent vaccinated. You look 826 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: at that, you also see that, you know, if they 827 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: get their exemptions in that would be roughly in line 828 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: with the general population. But I do think it is interesting, 829 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: and I don't think there was enough media coverage of 830 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 1: the fact that, look, it was clear that the Southwest 831 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 1: Airlines cancellations and more had not all to do but somewhat. 832 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: And again the degree was to how much to do 833 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,319 Speaker 1: with the sick out or not. But the fact that 834 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: they're going to come out reverse their policy tells us 835 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: that it was a contributing factor to that, and the 836 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 1: fact that Delta also jumped in there, one of the 837 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: big three, so that there was at least some organic pushback. 838 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 1: But to be clear, it's like ten percent, you know, 839 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,359 Speaker 1: it's not you know, thousands and thousands. In a sense, 840 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: what they're doing here too is kind of kicking the 841 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 1: can down the road, giving people more time to figure 842 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: out their excuses, their exemptions, so that they can, you know, 843 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: if they're really adamantly opposed, can try to figure that out. 844 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,319 Speaker 1: And so the question is, you know, what comes next, 845 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,760 Speaker 1: and they'll quite other questions how heavy handed in enforcement 846 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: is the fight? What's the government we're going to do? 847 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,440 Speaker 1: What it really going to you know, or whatever? If 848 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: it really comes down to it, and there's this kind 849 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 1: of stale me where the airlines are saying, hey, we 850 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,839 Speaker 1: got this unvaccinated population without an adequate exemption, but we're 851 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,400 Speaker 1: not going to fire them. I mean, is the federal 852 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,839 Speaker 1: government gonna just look the other way? How does that 853 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: all ultimately shake out? Hard to say, yeah, we'll keep 854 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: an eye on that one. Okay, let's go ahead and 855 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 1: move on this our fun segment. We always believe to 856 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 1: save the fun ones for the end. Joe Rogan, We're 857 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: listening to his late latest episode with Michael Malice, and 858 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 1: I'll try and make this as serious as possible. We 859 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: discussed previously how Don Lemon dragged doctor Sanjay Gupta on 860 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 1: his show and publicly flogged him, saying, no, no, no, Sanjay, 861 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,719 Speaker 1: we did not lie here on this. We did not. 862 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 1: I saw a lie to call ivermectin a horse d wormer. 863 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: You know, it is used in some veterinary capacity. That's 864 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: basically like saying anything that pets also take is a 865 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,439 Speaker 1: pet medicine. And I think we all know what's going 866 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: on there. I thought it was a very very ridiculous 867 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: move for them to have Sanjay Gupta on basically kind 868 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: of publicly confront him, try to make him, make him 869 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: apologize essentially for saying that. CNN well, and when he 870 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: started to actually explain Joe's view caught him off. Don 871 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,959 Speaker 1: Lemon cuts him off so that he can't possibly even 872 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: explain like, well, here's the reality in here's what might 873 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,439 Speaker 1: have been. Well, I belong on our network. So Joe 874 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,440 Speaker 1: responded to Don Lemon and the eloquent only way that 875 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,800 Speaker 1: Rogan can. Let's take a listen to what he said. Now. 876 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 1: I do not know what the motivation for demonizing this 877 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 1: this particular medication is. Again, I'm not a doctor and 878 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,440 Speaker 1: I'm not a scientist, but I would imagine some of 879 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: it has to do with money. The reason being is 880 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,840 Speaker 1: that it is a generic drug. Now they've the patent 881 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: has run out, so anybody can make it and it's 882 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 1: worth like thirty cents a dose. Now Merk has its 883 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,080 Speaker 1: own anti viral that's supposed to do the same thing 884 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: that they claim Ivermectin does, as does Pfizer. They're both 885 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: about to release it. I don't know if that's why 886 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,320 Speaker 1: the FDA is making snarky tweets about it being veterinary medicine, 887 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,800 Speaker 1: but I do know that it was used for humans 888 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: for fucking years, yeah, before they ever started using it 889 00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,799 Speaker 1: for animals. And I also do know that there is 890 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: a massive amount of medications that have veterinary applications, including penicila. Well, Joe, 891 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: it's like me calling child Protective Services because my neighbor 892 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: was feeding her baby cat food and by cat food, 893 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 1: I mean milk. Yeah, I mean it's it's insane. Like 894 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 1: i'd say, dogs take xanax and all these other things. 895 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 1: So it's wait a minute, dogs take xanax. Yeah, people 896 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,839 Speaker 1: have anxiety written dogs. Of course, I get guarantee. It's 897 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,200 Speaker 1: the person or cats. Yeah, well, come over my house. 898 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 1: My dog is lazy. Yeah, it's sweet because he's fuck, 899 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,759 Speaker 1: he's a dog's hill. Yeah yeah, but actually some people 900 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,879 Speaker 1: get rescue dogs. I should take that back. I did 901 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,920 Speaker 1: have a dog that had anxiety because I got her 902 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:08,920 Speaker 1: when she was two, or maybe it's an older dog 903 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,719 Speaker 1: gets a puppy and the dog doesn't know what to do, 904 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 1: and they're they're situations. Yeah yeah, they think they're. Yeah, 905 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 1: but I don't think it's necessarily about the money so much. 906 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,480 Speaker 1: It's about obedience, because they're the ones who are promulgating 907 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,759 Speaker 1: how everyone has to act. And then you have this 908 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,160 Speaker 1: guy from Austin over here, this comedian uh, telling people 909 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 1: there was another way and the science isn't as settled 910 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,920 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, their sense of authority is 911 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 1: diminished because when you have choices, that means that person 912 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,120 Speaker 1: who wants to be the one to go to no 913 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: longer is the one who has all the answers. Well, 914 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 1: this is what is so funny about that they don't 915 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,840 Speaker 1: understand that when they say things that are absolutely untrue, 916 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 1: it diminishes their authority. They're not even aware of what 917 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,680 Speaker 1: they're doing, Like they have an alternative when Don Lemon 918 00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,480 Speaker 1: goes on so that with Sonjay Gooperupta and says, actually, 919 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,719 Speaker 1: it really is is a veterinary medicine. It really this 920 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: was the lie, he goes it's not a lie to 921 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,920 Speaker 1: say it's also used as horse medicine. That's not what 922 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:10,480 Speaker 1: you saying. Ye, that's what you said. You didn't say 923 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: this drug which also is used for horses, of what 924 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,799 Speaker 1: relevance is that it doesn't have any relevance exactly what 925 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,680 Speaker 1: you're talking about with penicillin and with like a gigantic 926 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,240 Speaker 1: number of medicines that also have veterinary out of the courses. 927 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,240 Speaker 1: But by doing that, you just you just prove my point. 928 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,799 Speaker 1: They don't even understand what they just did. You think 929 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,560 Speaker 1: no one's like it's gonna end with you see, because 930 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,800 Speaker 1: it used to be that way. They would say something 931 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 1: and no one would have recourse. Do you know what 932 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,880 Speaker 1: this is? When you're saying something and then the person 933 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,840 Speaker 1: you're saying it about has literally ten times the audience? 934 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: You do, you dumb motherfucker? Do you know what you did? 935 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:51,000 Speaker 1: You just prove my point. I know we had to 936 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,640 Speaker 1: include the dogs thing in there. It was just funny, 937 00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,440 Speaker 1: but I wanted to make sure everybody got, you know, 938 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: the first part of what he was talking about, and 939 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,040 Speaker 1: then the actual response there with Lemon, it is this 940 00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 1: is a great point exactly the one that we made here, 941 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,640 Speaker 1: which is, look in the distribution age of the Internet, 942 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,880 Speaker 1: and especially in the age where Don Lemon gets like 943 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,400 Speaker 1: four hundred thousand people in the Key four hundred thousand 944 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,040 Speaker 1: people overall in the Key demo, what is it probably 945 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,480 Speaker 1: like one hundred k? Just by the way, if we 946 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,480 Speaker 1: were getting that, we would both be on the street. 947 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 1: So that gives you an idea of how much of 948 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,080 Speaker 1: a joke the actual viewership for these programs is. But 949 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,280 Speaker 1: as he's pointing to, when you have ten times the audience, 950 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,440 Speaker 1: you can't say things which are not just lies. But 951 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,760 Speaker 1: whenever you try to cover up what you're saying, whenever 952 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,200 Speaker 1: you try, in order to apologize or sorry, to fudge 953 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:41,520 Speaker 1: the facts in a certain way and say no, no, 954 00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,720 Speaker 1: we didn't actually do this way. We have the Internet. 955 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: Now there's not not even just this show. I mean, 956 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,359 Speaker 1: we're bigger than Don Lemon, but you know, Rokenness many 957 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,879 Speaker 1: or more is of magnitude larger than us. He can 958 00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,319 Speaker 1: respond and to show and point out exactly what. And 959 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,719 Speaker 1: when you have enough people who are invested, which they 960 00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,959 Speaker 1: clearly are, then it's just meaningless, you know, it really 961 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,439 Speaker 1: is like Don Lemon still thinks it's two thousand and two, 962 00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:04,960 Speaker 1: and you can lie about the Iraq War with impunity 963 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,759 Speaker 1: and still survive. But they're in a bubble. It's a 964 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,120 Speaker 1: whole new world out here, Don, They're in a bubble. First, 965 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 1: let me say about ivermectin, just to get all the 966 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:17,120 Speaker 1: caveats out there. It is at best unproven and at 967 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,200 Speaker 1: worst doesn't work. There is not evidence to support the 968 00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 1: idea that it is an effective treatment for COVID nineteen. 969 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,640 Speaker 1: So let's just put that out there. But all of 970 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,759 Speaker 1: his points about it being weirdly demonized, I also thought 971 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,560 Speaker 1: really interesting and I thought his guests made a good 972 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,200 Speaker 1: point there about you know, sometimes it's not as simple 973 00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,560 Speaker 1: as just oh it's about the money. It's also about power. Yeah. 974 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,000 Speaker 1: So the fact that you had people saying, you know, 975 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,839 Speaker 1: maybe there's a different route to take and questioning the 976 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:51,480 Speaker 1: official line that causes a reaction above and beyond just 977 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,720 Speaker 1: being able to say, oh, look, guys, here's the data. 978 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,400 Speaker 1: Here's what we found. You know, there are trials on 979 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 1: it. It It does work for river blindness and these other things, 980 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,839 Speaker 1: but we haven't found that it's worked. And here's the 981 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,359 Speaker 1: you know, the trials that are ongoing and will keep 982 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: you abreast of the data. No, there has to be 983 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:11,120 Speaker 1: this whole like freak out and labeling it as horsty 984 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,239 Speaker 1: wormer exclusively. And yes it has veterinary applications as well, 985 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,080 Speaker 1: so do a lot of other drugs. And yes, by 986 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,480 Speaker 1: the way, there also were people that went out because 987 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,359 Speaker 1: there was no ivermectin available to them and got the 988 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,919 Speaker 1: horse version. And you should not do that, guys, it's 989 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:26,960 Speaker 1: not a good idea to do that. But that is 990 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,880 Speaker 1: not what Joe Rogan did. And so this doctor prescribed it. Yeah, 991 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 1: he's like, I can afford people medication Apple, So that 992 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,120 Speaker 1: is not what Joe Rogan did. And when you say 993 00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,239 Speaker 1: that that is what Joe Rogan did, that's called a lie. 994 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,759 Speaker 1: So there's a lot there. I also think on the 995 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,960 Speaker 1: media piece, it is funny because they're in this bubble 996 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:53,400 Speaker 1: where it's not just that they look down their nose 997 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,399 Speaker 1: at Rogan or at us, like I really genuinely think 998 00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,840 Speaker 1: that they don't understand there's a world outside of cable news, 999 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,319 Speaker 1: correct that it exists and is also much larger than 1000 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,960 Speaker 1: what they're at this point pathetically small audiences ultimately are 1001 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:14,480 Speaker 1: they don't have the control over the information and over 1002 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,719 Speaker 1: the culture that they once did, and I don't think 1003 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,920 Speaker 1: that there's been an adjustment to recognize that reality. I 1004 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,600 Speaker 1: thought one of the most telling things in the exchange 1005 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:27,400 Speaker 1: between Don Lemon and Sanjay Gupta is he Lemon started 1006 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,239 Speaker 1: off that exchange by saying, I know that interview was 1007 00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,640 Speaker 1: kind of tongue in cheek. It's like, why would you 1008 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,280 Speaker 1: say that, Why do you an attempt to just diminish 1009 00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,799 Speaker 1: the whole thing, like I just did this as some 1010 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,320 Speaker 1: stupid lark and this irrelevant podcast. What makes your interview 1011 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 1: not tongue in cheek? It's actually far more tongue in 1012 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,359 Speaker 1: cheek and mic it's basically fake both in weird boxes. Right. 1013 00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,879 Speaker 1: It's much better versus like Contrast that to the three 1014 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,399 Speaker 1: hour long conversation that they had, Sanjay and Joe going 1015 00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,120 Speaker 1: back and forth on the data and that, but what 1016 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,759 Speaker 1: about this study, what about this incant instance, Let's look 1017 00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,480 Speaker 1: it up right now, and let's talk about it, and 1018 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 1: let's go through it. That was a much less tongue 1019 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,160 Speaker 1: in cheek and much more serious attempt to get at 1020 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,640 Speaker 1: the truth and help people weigh where their risks were 1021 00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,399 Speaker 1: and what is the right decision for themselves and their 1022 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:19,319 Speaker 1: families and their lives than anything that you've seen ultimately UNCNN. 1023 00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,120 Speaker 1: But I thought that very dismissive comment at the beginning 1024 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,640 Speaker 1: from Lemon kind of said it all about how clueless 1025 00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,080 Speaker 1: they are about their role at this point in the 1026 00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,400 Speaker 1: media ecosystem, and about the fact that, yeah, if you 1027 00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:36,200 Speaker 1: say something that's just not true, that doesn't to Joe's point, 1028 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,759 Speaker 1: that doesn't improve your credibility, that doesn't help you make 1029 00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 1: your point. That undermines your credibility, not just on this 1030 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,719 Speaker 1: but on every other news story. He said it very 1031 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,600 Speaker 1: well to Sanjay too. He was like, do you understand 1032 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:47,359 Speaker 1: how when people see that and then they see what's 1033 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,600 Speaker 1: happening in Syria, they go, I don't know about that 1034 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,280 Speaker 1: or what Hunter Biden, he goes, how can I trust 1035 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,760 Speaker 1: what you're saying on a variety of other subjects whenever 1036 00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:57,520 Speaker 1: I know that you lied about me and many other 1037 00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:59,200 Speaker 1: people know that you lied about me. And that's why 1038 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,640 Speaker 1: look the flashoint around. This is very useful in pointing 1039 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,440 Speaker 1: out why do people have all time low trust in media? 1040 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,960 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, second all time low? Actually according to the 1041 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,640 Speaker 1: latest Gallup data, I went, I looked and relished. The 1042 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,799 Speaker 1: Financial Times did a piece. I mean, all three of 1043 00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,600 Speaker 1: the cable networks are already back down to their twenty 1044 00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,799 Speaker 1: fifteen levels of ratings, and it's just going to continue 1045 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,560 Speaker 1: to crash crash crash. And what did we cover earlier 1046 00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,000 Speaker 1: in the show, the Trump social media network, which may 1047 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,280 Speaker 1: means he's not running again. They're screwed if it's Biden 1048 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:32,280 Speaker 1: versus like even like Ron DeSantis, you know, good, good luck, okay. 1049 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,560 Speaker 1: In terms of trying to get people to pay attention 1050 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,840 Speaker 1: the way that they did under Trump, Trump was the 1051 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:38,799 Speaker 1: greatest thing that ever happened to them. He saved them 1052 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 1: for about five years. But without him, they're dead, all 1053 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,720 Speaker 1: of them. And you know, like I said, Trump Social 1054 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,520 Speaker 1: Media a Trump's media network that's going to cannibalize Fox. 1055 00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,160 Speaker 1: For the other ones, I mean, they're just slowly losing 1056 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,040 Speaker 1: out to the Internet. Our shows already many many multiples 1057 00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,799 Speaker 1: bigger than what the key audience demographics are for these 1058 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,839 Speaker 1: mainstream media channels on the cables. And there's people who 1059 00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,279 Speaker 1: are way bigger than us. So when you consider all 1060 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,080 Speaker 1: of that, their days are numbered. But we shouldn't exaggerate 1061 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,840 Speaker 1: on one thing. They still have a stranglehold on power, 1062 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,120 Speaker 1: right Like the people in power think that they matter, 1063 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,920 Speaker 1: so they do matter even if nobody watches. Elites are 1064 00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,600 Speaker 1: still in the same bubble that Don Lemon is exactly. 1065 00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,759 Speaker 1: They still imagine care. They still imagine that they have 1066 00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,279 Speaker 1: the cachet and have the audience levels and have the 1067 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,400 Speaker 1: hold on the culture that they once did. So because 1068 00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,040 Speaker 1: it's this elite group, it's actually interesting that this is 1069 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,160 Speaker 1: the whole Morning Joe strategy was not to get the 1070 00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,480 Speaker 1: highest ratings, which they don't, but to pitch to an 1071 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,799 Speaker 1: elite audience and to become influential that way. Sure, and 1072 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,760 Speaker 1: it worked when I walk down my street in the morning, 1073 00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,279 Speaker 1: like six am or something like that, all I see 1074 00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,040 Speaker 1: are Morning Joe TV is on in people's living room. Yeah, 1075 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,200 Speaker 1: it's fast, and everybody around me works in politics on 1076 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,480 Speaker 1: the hill or like whatever. And I know that's not 1077 00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,880 Speaker 1: the case for most people. It's like but it's always 1078 00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,000 Speaker 1: It's always interesting to me. I'm like, oh, this is 1079 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,040 Speaker 1: what they watch. Yeah, is how they get their media CNBC. 1080 00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,080 Speaker 1: It's the same strategy, very low ratings, Like not a 1081 00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,719 Speaker 1: lot of people have CNBC in the background all day, 1082 00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,360 Speaker 1: but they get extraordinarily high ad rates because the people 1083 00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,879 Speaker 1: who are watching are disproportionately wealthy. So and that's where 1084 00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:17,880 Speaker 1: the money is. If you're selling a product nobody else 1085 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,560 Speaker 1: has any So that strategy as a business model has 1086 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,760 Speaker 1: worked for them, but it perpetuates the same, you know, 1087 00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,080 Speaker 1: just total insular bubble thinking where they think this little 1088 00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,480 Speaker 1: world that they exist in is the only thing that matters. 1089 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:32,880 Speaker 1: Very true. Wow, you guys must really like listening to 1090 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:34,960 Speaker 1: our voices. Well, I know this is annoying. Instead of 1091 00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,600 Speaker 1: making you listen to a Viagra commercial. When you're done, 1092 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,120 Speaker 1: check out the other podcast I do with Marshal Costsoff 1093 00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:42,440 Speaker 1: called The realignment. We talk a lot about the deeper 1094 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,920 Speaker 1: issues that are changing realigning in American society. You always 1095 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,520 Speaker 1: need more Crystal and Zag in your daily lives. Take care, guys, Crystal, 1096 00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,120 Speaker 1: what are you taking a look at? Well, Guys, as 1097 00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,800 Speaker 1: we discussed, we've now got some real details on exactly 1098 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,680 Speaker 1: what the White House wants in the final reconciliation package. 1099 00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:58,959 Speaker 1: And as I said before, there is just no way 1100 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,920 Speaker 1: around it. This is a dog in nearly every way. 1101 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,520 Speaker 1: So let's just go again through some of the details 1102 00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,800 Speaker 1: per jef Snine. First of all, overall price tag maximum 1103 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,240 Speaker 1: of one point nine trillion and more likely in the 1104 00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,080 Speaker 1: one point seventy five trillion dollar range. For those keeping 1105 00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:17,280 Speaker 1: score at home, That is more than four trillion less 1106 00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,400 Speaker 1: than these six trillion progressives ultimately wanted, but a near 1107 00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,920 Speaker 1: point two five trillion off of what the corporate democrats demanded. Now, look, 1108 00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,040 Speaker 1: top line is not everything, of course, but it does 1109 00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,320 Speaker 1: give you a pretty decent sense of what direction this 1110 00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,720 Speaker 1: package that has been proposed is ultimately tilted in critical 1111 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,680 Speaker 1: programs are stripped down entirely or they're radically reduced. The 1112 00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,439 Speaker 1: top tax credit would only be extended for a year. 1113 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,720 Speaker 1: In the middle of a pandemic. When voters routinely say 1114 00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,479 Speaker 1: that healthcare is their top priority, every healthcare proposal would 1115 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,600 Speaker 1: be significantly scaled back. Now, progressives are holding on to 1116 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,400 Speaker 1: the fact that expansion of Medicare benefits may be kept in, 1117 00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:58,760 Speaker 1: but even on that front, analysts are warning the numbers 1118 00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,440 Speaker 1: don't really add up and it might be dramatically underfunded. 1119 00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,120 Speaker 1: Biden even collapsed on what he said was one of 1120 00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,520 Speaker 1: his own top priorities. That's free community college. He told 1121 00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:12,640 Speaker 1: voters very recently that he was insisting on that provision 1122 00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,840 Speaker 1: being in the final package. So much for that it 1123 00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:20,680 Speaker 1: is gone, replaced pathetically by some scholarships. But wait, there's 1124 00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:25,240 Speaker 1: much more here. Affordable housing money slash, elder care money slashed, 1125 00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:30,120 Speaker 1: paid leave slashed, prescription drug reform most likely is going 1126 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,480 Speaker 1: to be out. Finally, and critically, the climate change provisions 1127 00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,400 Speaker 1: have been totally gutted. Mansion, as you know, rejected the 1128 00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,320 Speaker 1: renewable Energy Standard, which was at the core of the 1129 00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,120 Speaker 1: Biden climate proposal. Now, look, we have no idea what 1130 00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:44,960 Speaker 1: it's going to be replaced with, but we do know 1131 00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:47,440 Speaker 1: whatever it's going to be is going to be small potatoes. 1132 00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,560 Speaker 1: They're only allocating three hundred billion dollars for whatever the 1133 00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,920 Speaker 1: climate piece ends up being. Now, look at this, as 1134 00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,120 Speaker 1: Ryan Grimm put it, that dollar amount with no real 1135 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:03,439 Speaker 1: way of tackling utility emissions is effectively climate denialism. Here's 1136 01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,840 Speaker 1: hoping Bill Gates figures out that whole dimming the sun thing. 1137 01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,120 Speaker 1: I guess now there's a lot to say about all 1138 01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:09,880 Speaker 1: of this. The first and most pressing thing to say 1139 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:14,720 Speaker 1: is that progressives must reject this proposal and be prepared 1140 01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:16,720 Speaker 1: to vote it down if it ultimately comes to that. 1141 01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,840 Speaker 1: It's not a close call, guys. Remember the rallying cry 1142 01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,320 Speaker 1: of progressives throughout this whole process was no climate, no deal, 1143 01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,480 Speaker 1: And to their credit, up to this point, they have 1144 01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: held the line. They won that first game of chicken 1145 01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,520 Speaker 1: with corporatis. They forced everyone back to the negotiating table. 1146 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:36,160 Speaker 1: If they cave now when their only clear demand was 1147 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,600 Speaker 1: gutted like a fish, they'll be betraying their supporters and 1148 01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:43,480 Speaker 1: they will never be taken seriously in DC again. But 1149 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,640 Speaker 1: as I look at this proposal holistically more important to 1150 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,720 Speaker 1: them not being trusted again, it seems to me that 1151 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,440 Speaker 1: this is really a generational betrayal because it's young people 1152 01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,360 Speaker 1: once again, who got the worst end of this dog. 1153 01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,120 Speaker 1: You're denying them the chance to go to college without 1154 01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,000 Speaker 1: being saddled with crush debt. You're denying them the ability 1155 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,160 Speaker 1: to forge, to raise a family. You're denying them the 1156 01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:08,360 Speaker 1: ability to inhabit a planet that isn't catastrophically careening towards disaster. 1157 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,160 Speaker 1: You are once again allowing corporations and those who already 1158 01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,720 Speaker 1: got theirs to rob the future from the young. Now 1159 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,040 Speaker 1: do I think progressives will actually vote this bill down? 1160 01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,960 Speaker 1: Not looking too good, guys for Milijaia Paul, whose leadership 1161 01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,600 Speaker 1: I have praised up to this point, seems please to 1162 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:31,040 Speaker 1: punch with this disastrous mess, outrageously claiming that quote all 1163 01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,760 Speaker 1: our priorities are there in some way, shape or form. 1164 01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:38,400 Speaker 1: She also said this nauseating trash about Joe Biden. The 1165 01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:42,480 Speaker 1: President is the inspirer, He is the closer, He is 1166 01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:47,520 Speaker 1: the convincer, the mediator in chief. He really is doing 1167 01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:53,479 Speaker 1: a phenomenal job. Are you kidding me? Corporations will get 1168 01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:57,160 Speaker 1: everything they want in this package. Oil and gas they crush, 1169 01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,200 Speaker 1: the climate provisions, big Pharma, they get to preserve a 1170 01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:04,320 Speaker 1: grotesquely inhumane status quo, and the proposals to actually tax 1171 01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,640 Speaker 1: large fortunes, those have already been tossed aside. Remember, the 1172 01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,800 Speaker 1: entire corporate strategy was to avoid debates on the actual 1173 01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,040 Speaker 1: provisions of the bill, which are popular and which are 1174 01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:17,080 Speaker 1: desperately needed. Instead, they wanted to attack the price tag 1175 01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:19,640 Speaker 1: of the bill, getting the public only to focus on 1176 01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,840 Speaker 1: the question of the top line dollar amount, and ultimately 1177 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,800 Speaker 1: hack the bill down to something small, something toothless, and 1178 01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:29,440 Speaker 1: something perfectly comfortable for the polluters and for the powerful. 1179 01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:34,040 Speaker 1: Their strategy has been wildly successful. If corporate lobbyists could 1180 01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,040 Speaker 1: have written this bill, it would look something like the 1181 01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:39,040 Speaker 1: proposal that is being floated right now. It strikes me 1182 01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,760 Speaker 1: that there's also something really fundamental to our society that's 1183 01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:43,919 Speaker 1: at stake here too. I don't think it's too grand 1184 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:47,600 Speaker 1: the statement to say, the failure of multiple administrations to 1185 01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:52,840 Speaker 1: accomplish even the most basic and overwhelmingly popular reforms is 1186 01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,800 Speaker 1: an existential threat to the republic. Remember Obama would always say, 1187 01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,439 Speaker 1: don't boo vote, and people did. They voted for him, 1188 01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,960 Speaker 1: and huge numbers. They voted for Biden in huge numbers. 1189 01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,600 Speaker 1: Two is turnout in the Trump era surge to extraordinary 1190 01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,920 Speaker 1: hypes and they haven't just voted. They've organized, They've marched, 1191 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,479 Speaker 1: they've knocked on doors, they've sent money to politicians, they've 1192 01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,400 Speaker 1: called their members of Congress, they've told polsters what their 1193 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:19,919 Speaker 1: priorities are in no uncertain terms. Right now, today you'll 1194 01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,640 Speaker 1: see workers in the streets, on picket lines and quitting 1195 01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:26,760 Speaker 1: their jobs, on mass, all a form of demanding much more, 1196 01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,480 Speaker 1: and yet all of it in our political process seems 1197 01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,760 Speaker 1: to come to not. We had the largest protest movement 1198 01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:36,520 Speaker 1: in history last summer. It didn't result in one single 1199 01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:40,440 Speaker 1: change at the federal level, not one. Eighty three percent 1200 01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:44,000 Speaker 1: of American support Medicare drug price negotiations. Democrats have been 1201 01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:48,720 Speaker 1: promising this basic, obvious reform since two thousand and six, 1202 01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,400 Speaker 1: and yet it looks likely to fail yet again. Fight 1203 01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,640 Speaker 1: for fifteen is transform the conversation around the minimum wage, 1204 01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,880 Speaker 1: sparking mass support even in states like Florida. Yet at 1205 01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,360 Speaker 1: the federal level, we have gone the longest time in 1206 01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,800 Speaker 1: the history of the program since the minimum wage was lifted. 1207 01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,040 Speaker 1: What are people supposed to do with this information, with 1208 01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,680 Speaker 1: the knowledge that it doesn't matter what they do, their 1209 01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:15,120 Speaker 1: desires and their priorities never move. Congress now we're already 1210 01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:19,000 Speaker 1: seeing where that leads, and it's nowhere good politics collapses 1211 01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:22,480 Speaker 1: down to culture war signaling nihilism sets in. The public 1212 01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:25,440 Speaker 1: either tunes everything out that's happening in DC, or they 1213 01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,040 Speaker 1: vote for some reckless idiot like Trump in the hopes 1214 01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:30,120 Speaker 1: that maybe he is just crazy enough to actually do 1215 01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:35,280 Speaker 1: something different. Political violence escalates rage, building despondency. Creeping politicians 1216 01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,760 Speaker 1: win by painting their opponents as an existential threat rather 1217 01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,480 Speaker 1: than say the strength of their vision and their ideas. Now. 1218 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:44,760 Speaker 1: Progressives obviously can't fix all of that right now, in 1219 01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,840 Speaker 1: this moment, but at the very least they can tell 1220 01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:51,680 Speaker 1: corporate America that they are not getting their privatized infrastructure 1221 01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:55,680 Speaker 1: goodies and to the American people get the bare minimum 1222 01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,640 Speaker 1: in return, at least make the ruling class pay a 1223 01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,960 Speaker 1: time any cost for their very latest betrayal and sager 1224 01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:07,840 Speaker 1: signs are not good. No, they seem to be. I mean, 1225 01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:11,040 Speaker 1: it's just amazing. Like we said, tongue that. One more thing, 1226 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,560 Speaker 1: I promise. Just wanted to make sure you knew about 1227 01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,880 Speaker 1: my podcast with Kyle Kolinski. It's called Crystal, Kyle and Friends, 1228 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,840 Speaker 1: where we do long form interviews with people like Noam Chomsky, 1229 01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:23,240 Speaker 1: Cornell West, and Glenn Greenwald. You can listen on any 1230 01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,680 Speaker 1: podcast platform, or you can subscribe over on substack to 1231 01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,040 Speaker 1: get the video a day early. We're gonna stop bugging 1232 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,360 Speaker 1: you now enjoy, all right, Sager, what are you looking at? Well, 1233 01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,440 Speaker 1: it's pretty cliche at this point to say that COVID 1234 01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,520 Speaker 1: accelerated all the pre existing trends in America. Riches in 1235 01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,640 Speaker 1: America got a lot richer during COVID. Our already polarized 1236 01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,680 Speaker 1: country became a lot more polarized. Our consumer society consumed 1237 01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:47,760 Speaker 1: at levels it never has before, our forty year long 1238 01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,880 Speaker 1: dedication to globalization over being a serious country became much worse. 1239 01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,960 Speaker 1: And in that vein new data about family formation, children, 1240 01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,240 Speaker 1: and the foundation for most people's lives is just as unsettling. 1241 01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:03,120 Speaker 1: Before the pandemic, it was absolutely clear that marriage in 1242 01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,960 Speaker 1: America was becoming a luxury good. Twenty eighteen was the 1243 01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,920 Speaker 1: lowest marriage rate on record, and it's not that Americans 1244 01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,360 Speaker 1: didn't want to get married, it's that they reported that 1245 01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,880 Speaker 1: they simply could not afford to do so. The same 1246 01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:18,000 Speaker 1: hell true for children. American women reported wanting up to 1247 01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:20,200 Speaker 1: two point two children on average, but they were only 1248 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,800 Speaker 1: having around one point seven. The number one reason as 1249 01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,360 Speaker 1: to why they cited it was cost. So what's going 1250 01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,800 Speaker 1: on here? Well, in crisis where economic disparity was never 1251 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,680 Speaker 1: more clear, what do you think happened? Fortunately, we have 1252 01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,360 Speaker 1: some data to actually see that. The Institute for Family 1253 01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,440 Speaker 1: Studies new survey. It found that the most precipitous increases 1254 01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:42,440 Speaker 1: and decreases in getting married and having children after COVID 1255 01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,640 Speaker 1: is among the richest and the poorest in America. Right now, 1256 01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:49,040 Speaker 1: interest in family formation in America is highest amongst the rich. 1257 01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,240 Speaker 1: The desire to marry actually increase nine percent amongst higher 1258 01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,160 Speaker 1: income Americans who aren't married. Among those who are lower income, 1259 01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,480 Speaker 1: it's only two percent. For having kids. The number is 1260 01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:00,160 Speaker 1: even more stark. Among lower income Americans, the desire to 1261 01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:03,600 Speaker 1: have kids has dropped a net eleven points. For the 1262 01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:07,320 Speaker 1: hire income, it increased net one percent. This is particularly 1263 01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:09,760 Speaker 1: bad for a number of reasons. Chief among them is 1264 01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:12,560 Speaker 1: that COVID just accelerated and possibly ended. One of the 1265 01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,120 Speaker 1: more interesting data points that we've always had when you 1266 01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:18,680 Speaker 1: look at family formation, poorer Americans and indeed poorer people 1267 01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:22,440 Speaker 1: across the globe, despite not having the means necessarily always 1268 01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,720 Speaker 1: have more kids than many other segments of society. Children 1269 01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,160 Speaker 1: were seen as both a safety net and older age, 1270 01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,240 Speaker 1: but also often for these people who sought more some 1271 01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:35,080 Speaker 1: more satisfaction in children than in material goods. With COVID, 1272 01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,680 Speaker 1: it seems that trend is beginning to decrease, and childlessness 1273 01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:42,480 Speaker 1: is beginning to rise amongst the less educated, lower income Americans. 1274 01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,240 Speaker 1: With gas just poured on the fire. Look even further, 1275 01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,720 Speaker 1: you could say, Okay, Sager, who cares? We're just leaving 1276 01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,320 Speaker 1: a side that the civilization's most basic job is to 1277 01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,360 Speaker 1: replace itself. Maybe you'll recall, though, that other monologue I 1278 01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,080 Speaker 1: did on the crisis of American men. What stuck out 1279 01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:58,480 Speaker 1: most to me from reviewing the data on rising single 1280 01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,680 Speaker 1: male population of the United States just how miserable it 1281 01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:05,280 Speaker 1: makes everyone. Declining single mail wages over the last thirty 1282 01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:09,000 Speaker 1: years have made many men in America much less desirable partners. 1283 01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,760 Speaker 1: This leads to less coupling. Less couping that we know 1284 01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,120 Speaker 1: from the data, leads to better economic fortunes for both people. 1285 01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,519 Speaker 1: It leads to educational attainment. It leads to better health 1286 01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,519 Speaker 1: outcomes for both partners. It leads to better self reported 1287 01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,479 Speaker 1: happiness all across the board, but the forces in our 1288 01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:28,280 Speaker 1: society are pulling people away from this. Economically, it's actually 1289 01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:30,800 Speaker 1: never been harder than ever to get married. Take a 1290 01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:34,080 Speaker 1: look at this seriously. The average wedding cost in twenty nineteen, 1291 01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:38,519 Speaker 1: before the pandemic was twenty eight thousand dollars twenty eight thousand, 1292 01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:42,720 Speaker 1: that is, pre tax income of about one fourth of 1293 01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,559 Speaker 1: this entire country in the course of a year. The 1294 01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:50,000 Speaker 1: average wedding venue right now alone is ten thousand dollars. 1295 01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,719 Speaker 1: How about childbirth, Well, in twenty twenty, the average cost 1296 01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,479 Speaker 1: of childbirth for a person with employer sponsored health insurance 1297 01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:00,200 Speaker 1: was thirteen thousand, eight hundred and eleven dollars. Out of 1298 01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,280 Speaker 1: pocket costs for an individual with employer based healthcare is 1299 01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,439 Speaker 1: one thousand to twenty five hundred dollars per kid. But 1300 01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,880 Speaker 1: then consider the actual cost of raising a child right now, 1301 01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,799 Speaker 1: the average cost average through age seventeen is two hundred 1302 01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,439 Speaker 1: and thirty three thousand, six hundred and ten dollars, or 1303 01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:20,800 Speaker 1: an additional thirteen thousand dollars per year if you want 1304 01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,680 Speaker 1: to include college, that obviously exponentially increases. It is no 1305 01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,559 Speaker 1: wonder that in an economy where wages have stayed flat 1306 01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:31,160 Speaker 1: for thirty years, that people don't want to have children. Now, 1307 01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:33,719 Speaker 1: it may seem crass to discuss things in this way, 1308 01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:36,160 Speaker 1: but all the current evidence points to the fact that 1309 01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:40,360 Speaker 1: we have both had a cultural shift and an economic one. 1310 01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,360 Speaker 1: But the problem is we've been celebrating that cultural shift 1311 01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:47,120 Speaker 1: for so long we ignored the economic drift. The problems 1312 01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,160 Speaker 1: of the nineteen fifties are mostly dead. Women in America 1313 01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:52,040 Speaker 1: have been able to and continue to work at the 1314 01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:54,800 Speaker 1: levels that they choose to since the nineteen nineties, and 1315 01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:58,840 Speaker 1: since the nineties we've instead constructed an economic system which 1316 01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:03,000 Speaker 1: devalues wages an economic opportunity for middle class people of 1317 01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:07,559 Speaker 1: both genders, but especially the poor. The American dream was 1318 01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,280 Speaker 1: and is simple. If you work hard, you can have 1319 01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:12,759 Speaker 1: children and get married and live in a moderately comfortable 1320 01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:15,040 Speaker 1: life in a setting that you choose. That could be 1321 01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:17,479 Speaker 1: where you grew up, it could be thousands of miles away, 1322 01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:22,120 Speaker 1: but that opportunity was supposed to be ubiquitous wherever you were. Instead, 1323 01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,760 Speaker 1: opportunity today is really only ubiquitous for the social group 1324 01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:29,400 Speaker 1: for whom the entire economy is structured. The richest people 1325 01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:33,200 Speaker 1: in America the dream is alive for them, precisely at 1326 01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:36,040 Speaker 1: the expense of the middle and the poorer classes. A 1327 01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,360 Speaker 1: common question I get when I discuss this is soccer. 1328 01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:41,240 Speaker 1: How do you even know this isn't an entirely cultural phenomenon. 1329 01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:44,760 Speaker 1: How much of this is even economic? I've got an 1330 01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,479 Speaker 1: easy way to find out. Let's remove the economic barriers 1331 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:51,519 Speaker 1: to people and just see what happens. Joining us now, 1332 01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,000 Speaker 1: we have Jason Stall. He is the founder of the 1333 01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:57,559 Speaker 1: College Football Players Association. Great to have you, Jason, Welcome, 1334 01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,120 Speaker 1: Good to see you. Jason. Let's start with the most 1335 01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:06,840 Speaker 1: basic question. What is the College Football Players Association? Well? 1336 01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,880 Speaker 1: As an organization I and others founded about two and 1337 01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:11,960 Speaker 1: a half months ago. It sort of generated from an 1338 01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:16,120 Speaker 1: idea that college football players themselves had last summer. They 1339 01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:18,599 Speaker 1: were being asked to return to play in the midst 1340 01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:21,320 Speaker 1: of a pandemic, and they wanted to sort of organize 1341 01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:27,360 Speaker 1: their own organization. This idea fell by the wayside pretty quickly. 1342 01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:31,320 Speaker 1: I tried to basically keep it alive and well over 1343 01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:36,680 Speaker 1: the past year, tried to partner with others to lead it, 1344 01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:38,639 Speaker 1: and then yeah, about two and a half months ago, 1345 01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:42,160 Speaker 1: we launched it. It's an organization dedicated to health, safety, 1346 01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:46,120 Speaker 1: and welfare of college football players nationwide. Most importantly, we're 1347 01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:49,559 Speaker 1: trying to be a true membership players association. We're trying 1348 01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:55,599 Speaker 1: to get past, present, and future college football players on 1349 01:11:55,720 --> 01:12:00,400 Speaker 1: board as members to essentially use the institution as a 1350 01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:04,479 Speaker 1: collective voice to advocate for changes that they desire in 1351 01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,680 Speaker 1: college football throughout the United States. So tell us a 1352 01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,000 Speaker 1: little bit about that, Jason, there was a court case 1353 01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:13,120 Speaker 1: here that we covered about college athletes how they're being 1354 01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:16,040 Speaker 1: treated unionization. And then tell us about the pushback that 1355 01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:19,519 Speaker 1: you've been receiving on the college end. Yeah, I mean, 1356 01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:21,040 Speaker 1: I think there's been a lot of things that have 1357 01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:23,400 Speaker 1: been favorable to us here over this past year. I mean, 1358 01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:26,280 Speaker 1: if you had the Alston Course Court ruling this past summer, 1359 01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:30,479 Speaker 1: you had athletes able to monetize their data imago likeness, 1360 01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,719 Speaker 1: and then you had recently the head of the National 1361 01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:37,160 Speaker 1: Labor Relations Board essentially putting out a memo saying, look, well, 1362 01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,160 Speaker 1: we're going to do now any case that comes before 1363 01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:42,599 Speaker 1: us regarding unionization of college athletes, We're going to make 1364 01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:46,760 Speaker 1: sure that we recognize those athletes correctly as workers who 1365 01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,400 Speaker 1: are entitled to a wage or are entitled entitled to 1366 01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:54,439 Speaker 1: a collectively bargain, who are entitled to unionize. We hope 1367 01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:55,759 Speaker 1: to be a part of that. We are a players 1368 01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:59,320 Speaker 1: association now, we are not a union. But what we 1369 01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:02,640 Speaker 1: want to do years was we build up our membership. 1370 01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,920 Speaker 1: We want to do the education necessary to talk to 1371 01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:09,120 Speaker 1: guys about what it would take to unionize different schools, 1372 01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:12,240 Speaker 1: different conferences and hopefully you know, some of the biggest 1373 01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:16,559 Speaker 1: teams in college football now. In terms of responses to 1374 01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:20,920 Speaker 1: what we're doing by universities or by the NCAA, or 1375 01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:25,639 Speaker 1: by conferences or the college Football playoff administrators, thus far, 1376 01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:27,880 Speaker 1: it hasn't been much because, I mean what we're doing 1377 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:32,559 Speaker 1: now is really outreach through media, through social media obviously, 1378 01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,880 Speaker 1: to really get guys on board as members. I mean, 1379 01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,760 Speaker 1: that's really key. We don't want this to be a 1380 01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,960 Speaker 1: players association and name only. We think there are enough 1381 01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,479 Speaker 1: of those out there. We want to be a true 1382 01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:50,000 Speaker 1: membership organization that attempts to organize college football players into 1383 01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:53,599 Speaker 1: a vibrant movement. Yeah. I mean, I was a college 1384 01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:55,519 Speaker 1: athlete and I saw a little bit up close the 1385 01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:59,120 Speaker 1: way that the football players were treated in particular, and 1386 01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,759 Speaker 1: it's very clear to me, they weren't treated as students 1387 01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,479 Speaker 1: first and foremost, they were treated as workers. That was 1388 01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,680 Speaker 1: their job, that was there, what they brought to the 1389 01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:09,400 Speaker 1: university at least, that was the way that they were 1390 01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:11,200 Speaker 1: viewed and the way that they were treating them. Of course, 1391 01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,240 Speaker 1: for a lot of these guys, you know, the vast 1392 01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:15,440 Speaker 1: majority of them, they're not going to have a professional 1393 01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,600 Speaker 1: football career. So in terms of football playing, which is 1394 01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:22,920 Speaker 1: obviously very very hard on your body and sometimes very 1395 01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,120 Speaker 1: hard on your brain as well, this is it for them, 1396 01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:30,879 Speaker 1: and they don't have a voice in how affairs are conducted, 1397 01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:35,920 Speaker 1: and they're certainly unable to benefit financially from the very 1398 01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,800 Speaker 1: difficult and challenging work that they're ultimately putting in here. 1399 01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:43,639 Speaker 1: What was it, Jason that drew your interest in making 1400 01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:48,280 Speaker 1: sure that football players specifically could be organized in this way. Well, 1401 01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:50,719 Speaker 1: for me, Chris, yeah, everything you said one hundred percent. 1402 01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:54,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you, as a college athlete, know what college 1403 01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:57,760 Speaker 1: athletes in general go through. And I think that, yeah, 1404 01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,719 Speaker 1: you know, I think you correctly identify kind what football 1405 01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:03,439 Speaker 1: players go through, and that for me is what pulled 1406 01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:05,599 Speaker 1: me into this. I mean, look, I was a professor 1407 01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:09,120 Speaker 1: at the university of Minnesota for ten years. I was 1408 01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:13,240 Speaker 1: a historian. I had PhD in history. I study institution buildings. 1409 01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:15,400 Speaker 1: So this is very interesting to me, is this sort 1410 01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:18,960 Speaker 1: of real world project from a research perspective. But what 1411 01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:22,080 Speaker 1: really pulled me into this is over that ten year 1412 01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:26,040 Speaker 1: career as a professor, I had sixty seventy football players 1413 01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:30,639 Speaker 1: as students, probably as high as five hundred student athletes total. 1414 01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:33,960 Speaker 1: With all of them, but especially with the football players, 1415 01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,599 Speaker 1: you see behind the scenes what they go through. I mean, 1416 01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:40,519 Speaker 1: you see what the real world reality is of what 1417 01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:43,519 Speaker 1: a college football player at a D one Power five 1418 01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:47,760 Speaker 1: school goes through. And it is no joke. And for me, 1419 01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,120 Speaker 1: it was really the health, safety and welfare issue. I 1420 01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:54,200 Speaker 1: was a whistleblower internally over a two year period, I 1421 01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,960 Speaker 1: tried to raise alarm bells at the University of Minnesota 1422 01:15:57,320 --> 01:16:00,280 Speaker 1: regarding what was happening on the football team here. I 1423 01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:03,960 Speaker 1: was devoted from my position because of that. Well, some 1424 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:06,559 Speaker 1: of the specific what were some of the specific things 1425 01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:10,640 Speaker 1: you saw, I mean, just a mental and physical degradation. 1426 01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:14,559 Speaker 1: I think that people really do not understand exists behind 1427 01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:18,240 Speaker 1: the scenes. We have college football players across this country 1428 01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:23,680 Speaker 1: who are medically retiring from the game in unbelievable numbers 1429 01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:29,920 Speaker 1: from practice related injuries. The practice cultures of so many 1430 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:33,479 Speaker 1: college football programs, and I'm not saying all, but so 1431 01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:41,439 Speaker 1: many are abhorrent, are really wounding and traumatizing men in 1432 01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:45,960 Speaker 1: mass in this country. And you know, I think if 1433 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:50,679 Speaker 1: you watch tackle football, there's obviously a perception about the game, 1434 01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:53,679 Speaker 1: the game itself that if guys get injured during the game, 1435 01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:58,639 Speaker 1: as fans, as players, I think there's a certain level 1436 01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:02,559 Speaker 1: of injury that we're willing to accept in games. What 1437 01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:11,240 Speaker 1: I saw coming out of practices were believable amounts of concussions, 1438 01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:17,000 Speaker 1: career ending injuries in an environment, in a practice culture 1439 01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:22,680 Speaker 1: that really just sees young men as sort of interchangeable 1440 01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:26,800 Speaker 1: bodies and not as individuals. And I think that that 1441 01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:29,439 Speaker 1: really is what pulled me into this. And what if 1442 01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:32,160 Speaker 1: we want to do anything with the College Football Players Association, 1443 01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:36,080 Speaker 1: we want to change the culture of those practices because 1444 01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:41,120 Speaker 1: those practices are just ruining the lives of young men. 1445 01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:42,840 Speaker 1: So just you know, I can tell you I grew 1446 01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:45,040 Speaker 1: up in a college town College Station, Texas, Texas A 1447 01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:47,479 Speaker 1: and M. This is the sports was the lifeblood. The 1448 01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:49,880 Speaker 1: entire town depended on these men, and they were never 1449 01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:52,639 Speaker 1: really compensated for what a lot of them came through. 1450 01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:55,559 Speaker 1: I'm personally very very sympathetic to this. How could the 1451 01:17:55,600 --> 01:18:00,360 Speaker 1: College Football Players Association benefit these students' lives? Like, give 1452 01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:03,360 Speaker 1: us an example of what unionization could look like, how 1453 01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:05,800 Speaker 1: you could bargain for better conditions, all of that. What 1454 01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:08,639 Speaker 1: would it actually look like in practice? Well, I want 1455 01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:12,040 Speaker 1: to start here even before we got to unionization, because 1456 01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:15,360 Speaker 1: I think there is something a Players Association can do 1457 01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:19,640 Speaker 1: before we're really you know, everybody focuses on unionization, and 1458 01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:22,639 Speaker 1: that is important, but you know, the work you have 1459 01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:25,559 Speaker 1: to do to even unionize a single school is just 1460 01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:28,840 Speaker 1: you know, going to especially with the transient workforce like this. 1461 01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:31,360 Speaker 1: I mean, we're going to be talking about years trying 1462 01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:35,280 Speaker 1: to organize a single school likely, right What I am 1463 01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:37,800 Speaker 1: trying to talk to people about is what we can 1464 01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:42,880 Speaker 1: do with the Players Association first, because right now, the NCAA, 1465 01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:46,439 Speaker 1: the NCAA which has started itself, which was started as 1466 01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:51,120 Speaker 1: an institution to protect the health, safety, and welfare of 1467 01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:55,880 Speaker 1: college football players. Specifically, right when the NCAA started, we're 1468 01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:59,559 Speaker 1: talking about like thirty thirty thirty five guys died in 1469 01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:03,479 Speaker 1: one season back when the NCAA began, right, and that's 1470 01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:07,240 Speaker 1: why it started. The NCAA now has completely abdicated its 1471 01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:10,160 Speaker 1: responsibility when it comes to health, safety and welfare. People 1472 01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:14,679 Speaker 1: think that the NCAA is like on the ground making 1473 01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:20,320 Speaker 1: sure that these coaches and these programs are following rules 1474 01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:23,160 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, in terms of number of hours guys 1475 01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:26,080 Speaker 1: should be practicing, in terms of number of fully padded 1476 01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:30,679 Speaker 1: practices you're supposed to have, they're not. Nobody's watching. Nobody 1477 01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:34,080 Speaker 1: is watching. And so as we look at this billion 1478 01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:37,080 Speaker 1: dollar industry, what we need to look at is right now, 1479 01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:42,400 Speaker 1: there's no cops on the beat. Right there's no regulatory 1480 01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:47,360 Speaker 1: enforcement here. So we think the College Football Players Association 1481 01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:49,479 Speaker 1: can be an integral part of this that when we 1482 01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:54,240 Speaker 1: establish association chapters on campus, which we're going to hope 1483 01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:56,040 Speaker 1: to do here, but you know, by the end of 1484 01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:59,240 Speaker 1: this football season, we will show that the power of 1485 01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:05,639 Speaker 1: a association chapter can be just merely making sure that 1486 01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:09,200 Speaker 1: the rules and regulations that are already in place are 1487 01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:13,880 Speaker 1: actually being followed, because right now they're not. So well said, 1488 01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:16,320 Speaker 1: such an important issue, Jason, thank you so much for 1489 01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,519 Speaker 1: your time today. We're really grateful. Thank you, Jason, Thank 1490 01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:21,839 Speaker 1: you so much for the time, absolutely fully for supportive. 1491 01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:24,519 Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for watching. We really appreciate it. 1492 01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,240 Speaker 1: You know, it's so heartening just to see how much 1493 01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,040 Speaker 1: you guys can support us and how every day you know, 1494 01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:33,160 Speaker 1: I'll check whatever gets demonetized or whatever. I'm sure Rogan 1495 01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:35,920 Speaker 1: you know, probably because it's said Ivermectin, but it's probably 1496 01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:38,320 Speaker 1: a goner, even though I'm sure it'll be very popular. 1497 01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:40,960 Speaker 1: We rely on you in order to support us through 1498 01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:43,519 Speaker 1: premium subscription so that we don't have to worry about 1499 01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:45,439 Speaker 1: any of that, and we deeply appreciate it. Of course, 1500 01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:47,720 Speaker 1: you get to watch the show full all the benefits 1501 01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:49,680 Speaker 1: et cetera that come with that, but really it's just 1502 01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:52,320 Speaker 1: about supporting the work that we do here. So thank you, 1503 01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:53,680 Speaker 1: and if you can, the link is down there in 1504 01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,559 Speaker 1: the description. Love you guys. We'll have that daily poster 1505 01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:59,479 Speaker 1: segment for you tomorrow, other great content over the weekend, 1506 01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,720 Speaker 1: and we will see you back here next week, see 1507 01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:17,679 Speaker 1: you next week. Thanks for listening to the show, guys, 1508 01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:20,240 Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. To help other people find the show, 1509 01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:22,240 Speaker 1: go ahead and leave us a five star rating on 1510 01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:25,800 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or Wherever you get your podcasts really helps 1511 01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:29,120 Speaker 1: other people find the show as always special. Thank you 1512 01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:32,760 Speaker 1: to Supercast for powering our premium membership. If you want 1513 01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:35,799 Speaker 1: to find out more, go to Crystalansager dot com