1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb. 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 2: And I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Part four of our 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: series on the Cauldron. In today's vault episode, this one 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 2: originally published June sixteenth, twenty twenty two. Is there any 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: reason to delay? I don't think there is. Let's go 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: straight to it. 8 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: Let's jump right in and see what happens. 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb. 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 4: And I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Cauldron's Part four. This 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 4: is really the last Cauldron's episode, right. 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: Yes, for now, but no, no, this is the last one. 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: Even my son when he asked what I was doing today, 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: I said, Oh, we're going to record a fourth Cauldron's episode. 17 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: He's like, really, y'all are still doing those Cauldron episodes? 18 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, some more exciting stuff. And you know, 19 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: there's so much we're not even going to be able 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: to cover in these episodes, but this is an exciting 21 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: one because we're going to roll through a few more myths. 22 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: We have some more content about just how cauldrons factor 23 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: into our history and our beliefs, and you know we'll 24 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: get into the inferno a bit as well. 25 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 4: Rob, I am ready to be boiled. 26 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's basically we've alluded to this. We've 27 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: all along, we've mentioned that you have some strong Celtic 28 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 1: traditions that involve the cauldron, and they end up having 29 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: an influence over European traditions of the cauldron in general. 30 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: So let's roll through just a few of these different myths. 31 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: I'm not going to go into super detail on these, 32 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: though a number of these are the subject of epics 33 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: and longer tails and of course treatments and retreatments over 34 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: the years. So let's start with the Dogda's Cauldron. So 35 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: Dogdo or the Dogda was the most powful of all 36 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: the too apha to done. And you know these are 37 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: the magical folk, the ancestors of Ireland and so forth. 38 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: Docta was the master of the battle club, the magic harp, 39 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: and the cauldron. He was sometimes called the good God 40 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: because he was simply good at everything. 41 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 4: Today you'd call him a Mary Sue. 42 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: As Patricia Monaghan explains in the Encyclopedia of Celtic Mythology 43 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: and folklore, he was kind of a god of not 44 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: only fertility, but also kind of exaggerated male desire. So 45 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: he's round, you know, kind of a rotund individual. His 46 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: tunic is a bit too short to cover his genitals 47 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: in some depictions. Anyway, he wields a mallet that's so 48 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: huge that he has to drag it behind him in 49 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: a cart. So he's kind of this exaggerated cartoon character 50 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: in many respects. 51 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 4: I like him already. 52 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: He also has a pair of self replenishing pigs that 53 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: you can just keep eating. I'm not sure how the 54 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: details of that work. I'm assuming it's like you cook 55 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: them up, or I don't know if you're slicing pieces 56 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: off of them. I'm not sure, But any rate, I 57 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: don't know that the pigs really mind. They're magical, after all, 58 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: but even more magical than the pigs. He also has 59 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: a magic cauldron that can never be emptied. It overfloweth 60 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: with goodness, so he has many romantic adventures. He has 61 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: many children. He's eventually slain in battle by the ceph Leon, 62 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: a wife of the great Femorian king Baaler, and then 63 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: he goes on to party forever in the other world. 64 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: Sustained by his bottomless cauldron that he gets to bring 65 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: with him into the afterlife. 66 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 4: Oh that's lucky. 67 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: Yeah now, Bonagan, who also wrote the Encyclopedia of Goddesses 68 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: and Heroines, wrote that the Irish cauldron is of course 69 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: not only a mundane item for cooking and stewing, but 70 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: also quote a place where new life was brewed and stewed. 71 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: It was a symbol of great power for the Celts. 72 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: The Roman writer Strebo describes a great cauldron sent to 73 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: Caesar by Simbri and claims that the Celts ritually sliced 74 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: open the throats of prisoners over such a cauldron. And 75 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: these traditions, to whatever extent they are accurately reported here, 76 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: may connect to the Gunstrip cauldron that we talked about 77 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: in the last episode that was unearthed in Denmark, but 78 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: burying Celtic symbols, etc. Other cauldrons monagan rites have been 79 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: found in bogs and lakes and are suspected to have 80 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: been offerings to the other world. 81 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, that'll actually connect to an archaeology paper I want 82 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 4: to talk about in a minute. 83 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: In general, though, she contends that the Irish cauldron means 84 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: fullness and abundance, and Dogda's cauldron is just a great 85 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: example of this, a never ending supply of good eats. 86 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: The Welsh goddess Sertowin also uses a cauldron to make 87 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: a bra that imbues one with great wisdom. So it's 88 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: interesting how we're getting into talking about just sustaining the self, 89 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: sustaining the body via the contents of the cauldron. But 90 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: then we kind of take that into another dimension as well, 91 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: sustaining the mind. And this will have ramifications on other 92 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: storytelling and mythic traditions. All right, we'll come back to 93 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: some of these ideas, but let's let's move on to 94 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: the next myth here. This is another one from Celtic traditions, 95 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,679 Speaker 1: but it takes the idea of the cauldron as life 96 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: bringer and kind of puts a different spin on it. 97 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: This is the story of the pair Da Denni, the 98 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: cauldron of rebirth. Now, there are already some accounts that 99 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: indicate that the Dog's cauldron, in addition to overflowing with 100 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: great and miraculously healing foods, in some cases, could also 101 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: raise the dead if they were lowered into the cauldron. 102 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: And yeah, that leads us into what is perhaps the 103 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: most noteworthy necromantic cauldron. This is the cauldron of Rebirth 104 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: from Welsh mythology and literature, along with the Cauldron of Dogda. 105 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: It's a key mythic cauldron to understand the artifact's place 106 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: in European traditions. It's also the primary inspiration for the 107 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: black cauldron that shows up in the novels of Lloyd Alexander. 108 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: It factors into a few different tales, including Branwyn daughter 109 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: of Leir, a legendary tale from medieval Welsh literature, and 110 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: the second of four branches of the mobin Ogion collection 111 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: of tales. So this is a pretty interesting one, and 112 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: again I'm just giving you the broad strokes here. Again, 113 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: this one has received a much more expansive treatment in 114 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,799 Speaker 1: works of literature, but it concerns the mythic conflict between 115 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: the Welsh and the Irish and involves the exploits of Ethnisian, 116 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: the half brother of Bron the Blessed, who has been 117 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: described as an easily offended troublemaker or even as a 118 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: psychotic anti hero. Oh okay, so this is a guy 119 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: who does things like mutilate horses inside wars, burn people alive. 120 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: So he's not presented as a good guy. It doesn't 121 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: even seem like it's one of these cases where you 122 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: can say, well, today we wouldn't like him, but we 123 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: have to put him look at him within the context 124 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: of the time. No, it seems like everyone seems to 125 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: think that he's supposed to be a crazy, dangerous fellow. 126 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 4: He's not Snake Pliskin. He's Darth Vader. 127 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but like Darth Vader, he has a redemption 128 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: arc of sorts. He ends up engaging in a little 129 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: bit of self sacrifice to bring balance to things. So 130 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: it comes to light that the Irisher using the magical 131 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: cauldron of Rebirth to resurrect their dead warriors so that 132 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: they can keep on fighting. And so you know, the 133 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: Welsh forces are concerned about this. This is an unfair advantage, 134 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: right if you're bringing your own debt back to life 135 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: onto the battlefield. So what does Ethnician do Well, he 136 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: hides himself among the enemy Irish dead, and then the 137 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: Irish hall all those dead bodies back. They take them 138 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: to the cauldron of Rebirth and one by one they 139 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: throw them in the cauldron, and then one by one, 140 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: each warrior emerges once more to fight. Eventually they come 141 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: to Ethnician, who again is pretending to be a dead irishman. 142 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: They throw him into the cauldron alive, and this seems 143 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: to sort of short circuit everything. You know, the cauldron 144 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: is not designed or made, It does not exist to 145 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: resurrect the living. It totally just screws up everything. And 146 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: somehow Ethnician is then able to destroy the cauldron from within, 147 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: but in doing so, not only does he shatter the cauldron, 148 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: but he dies in the process. Oh and there's some 149 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: wonderful illustrations of this. 150 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 4: I want more detail here. Did like, did he know 151 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 4: that was going to happen to him or what did 152 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 4: he expect was going to? Like it just did it 153 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 4: not cross his mind that like, oh, yeah, I can't 154 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 4: be resurrected because I'm not dead yet. 155 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: I think he knew. I mean, otherwise it's not that 156 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: I mean, the self sacrifice is diminished if he doesn't 157 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: know that this is probably going to destroy him. So 158 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: I think the general vibe is the y he knows 159 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: that this will be the end, but it's the only 160 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: way to stop the Cauldron of rebirth. 161 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 4: Okay, he's not just being like dude, I'd love to 162 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 4: be resurrected from the dead. 163 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: No, no, no, all right, I'm going to run through 164 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: a few other cauldrons. Of note, there's the cauldron of Drenwich, 165 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: the Giant. In medieval Welsh tradition, there are thirteen treasures 166 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: of the Island of Britain, entailing various horns and chariots, knives, rings, 167 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: and more. But there's also a cauldron owned by the 168 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: giant Drenwich, which can tell brave men from cowards because 169 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: it will not boil meat for a coward, but will 170 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: quickly boil meat for a brave man. Now I'm not 171 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: sure if there was a vegetarian option, but basically it's 172 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: said to just be massive enough to cook an entire 173 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: wedding feast within It eventually falls into the possession of 174 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: King Arthur and some tellings. But yeah, I guess it's like, 175 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: if you're not sure if somebody is brave or cowardly, 176 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: you just have them bring forth their chicken Cutlets throw 177 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: them into the cauldron here and see what happens. 178 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 4: Here's another one where I wonder about the mechanics of 179 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 4: exactly what that means. So you put the meat in, 180 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 4: does it mean if you're a coward. The water won't 181 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 4: come to a boil. Or does it mean even if 182 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 4: it boils, the meat won't get tender. 183 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just imagining it like, Okay, you 184 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: put the meat in and maybe the water looks like 185 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: it's boiling, but the meat's not cooking. You just got 186 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: some raw chicken cutlets in there, just bobbing around. 187 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 4: Well, it reminds me of those stories of people up 188 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 4: on mountaintops trying to cook food, like boiling potatoes in 189 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 4: a pot on Mount Everest, where your potatoes don't get 190 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,239 Speaker 4: cooked because when you go higher and higher into the atmosphere, 191 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 4: the boiling point of water goes down. So you can 192 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 4: be there boiling a pot on the stove and it 193 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 4: is actually boiling, like it's bubbling and turning into steam, 194 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 4: but the boiling point is so low that the water 195 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 4: is actually not hot enough to cook your food. So 196 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 4: you can boil potatoes at the top of a mountain 197 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 4: for a long time, take them out, and they're basically 198 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 4: still raw. 199 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't have an answer for that, but it 200 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: does make me wonder to what extent experiences with different 201 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: altitudes and attempts to boil stuff in the cauldron. How 202 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: that might affect this because they would clearly notice, you 203 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: would know that, well, here it seems to take longer 204 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: to cook our food. Why might that be? 205 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 4: I haven't done the math. I don't know if there 206 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 4: are peaks in Britain high enough for that to happen. 207 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 4: I'm not sure. 208 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: Maybe though, perhaps word of this had traveled, who knows. 209 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: Let's see, here's another cauldron. This one comes from Norse mythology. 210 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: Heimer is a giant and the father of two Acera gods. 211 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: According to Carol Rose, he was said to live on 212 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: the eastern edge of the universe and had a brewing 213 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: pot or cauldron so large that the heavens could fit 214 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: inside it. So we mentally alluded to something like this 215 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: earlier in one of the other episodes about the cauldron 216 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: becomes kind of like a model, a technological model for 217 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: the cosmos itself, And here we have a cauldron so 218 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: vast that the universe itself fits inside it. Where's the cauldron? 219 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: While you're thinking too hard about this myth, or maybe 220 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: you're not, I mean, maybe that's ultimately kind of the 221 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: goal of one of these stories is to sort of 222 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: give you a real head spinner about the nature of 223 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: the universe. So that's the cauldron itself, but there are 224 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: some stories attached to it. So at one point, the 225 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: gods decide they're going to have a great feast, but 226 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: they need some sort of vessel to put all the 227 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: mead that they're going to drink. And they're the gods, 228 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 1: they can drink a lot of meat. So they send 229 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: Thor to borrow a Heimer's brewing cauldron. So Thor shows 230 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: up and Heimer says, no, you can't borrow this, but 231 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: they start discussing it and they agree, well, well, let's 232 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: settle this have a fishing contest, and there are apparently 233 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: many different versions of what follows next. In one version, 234 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: Heimer uses two bowls to as bait and then catches 235 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: two whales, but then Thor, not to be outdone, catches 236 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: the midguard storm itself, the world serpent. In some versions, 237 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: the results are inconclusive or they're disputed, so they move 238 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: on to a drinking contest after the fishing contest, and 239 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: in some tales, Thor wins and takes the vessel with him, 240 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: or finally just steals it and Heimer chases after him 241 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: with an army of giants. And Thor has to smite 242 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: all of them with his hammer, but at any rate, 243 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: Thor usually ends up with the cauldron. And the cauldron's 244 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: power again is that it's just super big. 245 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 4: So maybe this is a good place in the discussion 246 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 4: to talk about an interesting paper. I was reading an 247 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 4: archaeology paper. This was published by the Proceedings of the 248 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 4: Prehistoric Society, Cambridge University Press in twenty fourteen, and it's 249 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 4: called fire Burn and Cauldron, Bubble, Iron Age and Early 250 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 4: Roman Cauldrons of Britain and Ireland by Jody Joy. The 251 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 4: author of this paper, Jody Joy, is a senior curator 252 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 4: at the Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology at the University 253 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 4: of Cambridge. And the paper begins with a quote I 254 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 4: really like it says. It's an old Cosakh saying that 255 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 4: a man can live to fifty, but a cauldron will 256 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 4: live to one hundred. Oh wow, I think you go 257 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 4: compare yourself to a cauldron now. But anyway, so Joy 258 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 4: begins with some sections examining the archaeological record of cauldrons 259 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 4: in Britain and Ireland from the Iron Age and the 260 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 4: Early Roman period, and the early parts of this paper 261 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 4: go into a sort of catalog of all these different 262 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 4: cauldron artifacts and a discussion of their manufacture and physical characteristics. 263 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 4: One of the main things about the section is that 264 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 4: cauldron of the time took a lot of skill to produce. 265 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 4: But the part of this paper that really got my 266 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 4: attention was his section on the use and significance of 267 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 4: cauldrons from this period. Now, it's obvious from the prominent 268 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 4: role of cauldrons in myths and legends like the ones 269 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 4: we've just been talking about, and as magical items in 270 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 4: early medieval literature from Ireland and Wales, that these objects 271 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 4: were charged with mythical significance, particularly associated with resurrection and sacrifice. 272 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 4: But if you think about it, why would just a 273 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 4: big metal pot have any particular symbolic or mythic significance. Now, 274 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 4: Rob we've already talked about some ideas we've had on 275 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 4: that that maybe it has something to do with the 276 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 4: way that cauldrons transform foods when you cook them, though 277 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 4: of course that's strit of smaller pots as well. You know, 278 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 4: cooking transforms, and thus it may be is symbolic of 279 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 4: transformation in some way. But there are other ways that 280 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 4: they could acquire magical significance as well, and Joy argues 281 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 4: that some of the significance might be related to how 282 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 4: these objects were actually used and their role in the 283 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 4: culture of iron Age Britain in Ireland. So how were 284 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 4: they used? This is a good question because there are 285 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 4: several lines of evidence pointing to the conclusion that these 286 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 4: huge pots were primarily used to cook food, particularly soups 287 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 4: and stews containing meat. Now we've already sort of been 288 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 4: assuming the soup and stew connection, but technically, you know, 289 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 4: just a big metal pot could have been used for 290 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 4: all kinds of things, So it is good to examine 291 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 4: what the actual evidence is. And we know of examples 292 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 4: where large metal vessels were used for other things that 293 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 4: might have been just decorative, or they might have been 294 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 4: used to make burnt offerings to the gods or something 295 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 4: like that. But no. In the case of these cauldrons 296 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 4: from iron Age and early Roman Britain in Ireland, first 297 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 4: of all, it seems they were clearly designed to hold liquid, 298 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 4: and we can tell because almost all of the cauldrons 299 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 4: from this period in this place shows signs of having 300 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 4: been through repairs, which in itself is interesting because it 301 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 4: indicates a long social life for each individual cauldron, you know, 302 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 4: they're being used long enough that people have to like 303 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 4: go in and fix them up after they get damaged. 304 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of takes us back to that quote. Right, 305 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: you may live to be fifty, but your cauldron will 306 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: live to be one hundred. 307 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 4: Right. 308 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: Nowadays humans may live to be a hundred, but like 309 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: these cauldrons, you'll probably have to have some holes patched. 310 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 4: Here and there. That's true. And so why do we 311 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 4: think that these cauldrons were designed to hold liquid. It's 312 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 4: because when you look at the repairs that were done 313 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 4: to them, we see that they're essentially repairs that would 314 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 4: function to keep the cauldron's water tight. And if these 315 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 4: were just decorative or if they were used for say 316 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 4: like making a burnt offering to the gods or something, 317 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 4: they wouldn't need to patch tiny holes and keep the 318 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 4: vessel water tight. It's obvious that they wanted to prevent leaks. 319 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 4: Second line of evidence, they were clearly designed to be 320 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 4: suspended over fires. So this can be seen from the presence. 321 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 5: Of supplemental materials like chains, handles, and frames that would 322 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 5: all serve to hang or suspend the cauldron over a hearth, 323 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 5: and also many cauldrons have layers of soot caked onto 324 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 5: the outside surface, showing that a fire was applied to 325 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 5: them from the outside. 326 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 4: Third, you've got organic residues. Few artifacts from this period, 327 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 4: for example, a group known as the Chiselden cauldrons have 328 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 4: been sampled for organic residues on the inner surfaces, and 329 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 4: chemical analyzes indicate the presence of animal fats, which points 330 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 4: to soups or stews containing meat. However, some cauldrons from 331 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 4: Northwest Europe also show traces of honey, probably indicating their 332 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 4: use in serving honey based meads, which would be an 333 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 4: alcoholic beverage. 334 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, which brings us back to the myth of the 335 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: giant's brewing cauldron. Yeah. 336 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, So these cauldrons were almost definitely used mostly for 337 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 4: cooking food, usually meat based soups and stews, but sometimes 338 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 4: alcoholic beverages as well. But can we infer anything else 339 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 4: about how they were used? Well, Joy argues yes we can, 340 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 4: and points specifically to the fact that these were big boys. 341 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 4: These cauldrons are huge. Quote, the cauldron from Hochdorf could 342 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 4: hold five hundred liters. The cauldrons examined here had more 343 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 4: modest capacities. Ranging from thirty to eighty leaders. Even taking 344 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 4: into account the fact that they are unlikely to have 345 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 4: been filled to the brim and probably only ever two 346 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 4: thirds full, even the smallest cauldrons still probably contained twenty liters. 347 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 4: This is a substantial quantity of food and drink. And 348 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 4: I agree, I don't think I could eat twenty liters 349 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 4: of soup in a single sitting. 350 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: But that alone that you can easily imagine this becoming 351 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: extrapolated into myths of cauldrons that are just so full 352 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: of goodness that you cannot empty it. You cannot possibly 353 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: eat all of this food. 354 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 4: Now combine the bigness of these boys with another factor, 355 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 4: which is that cauldrons are relatively scarce in the archaeological 356 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 4: record compared to other types of household items, even those 357 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 4: made of similar materials. And from these facts, Joy infers 358 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 4: that cauldrons were not used for everyday cooking, but instead 359 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 4: they were used for the community based practice of feasting. 360 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 4: And I believe the argument is that this is sort 361 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 4: of what gives cauldrons their special power, what makes them 362 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 4: fit for use as a recurring magical item in myths 363 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 4: and legends and literature. Joy writes as follows At their heart, 364 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 4: feasts involve the creation and maintenance of social relationships and 365 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 4: can be used to redistribute wealth, mobilized labor, create alliances 366 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 4: between or exclude different groups, celebrate marriages, commemorate deaths, and 367 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 4: compensate for transgressions. As objects used during feasts, cauldrons help 368 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 4: facilitate these activities, and that is where much of their 369 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 4: significance and value derives. So Joy is arguing that feasting 370 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 4: was this incredibly important tradition in the cultures of Iron 371 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 4: Age Europe, and it had this complex suite of social utilities. 372 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 4: And the paper invokes the work of a different scholar 373 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 4: named Michael Dietler, who has created three different categories of 374 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 4: sort of the social roles of feasting, which are empowering, 375 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 4: the patron role, and the diacritical. So empowering feasts quote 376 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 4: allow people or groups to acquire prestige without necessarily requiring 377 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 4: the existence of fixed social hierarchies. By hosting a feast, 378 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 4: debts or obligations are passed on to guests, thus making 379 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 4: feasts arenas for negotiations of social influence. But empowering feasts 380 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 4: can also be viewed as celebrations of community identity. So 381 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 4: there's a lot that's going on here in this first category, 382 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 4: Like you could host a feast and serve people out 383 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 4: of a cauldron, and this is this is a powerful 384 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 4: community activity and in one sense it maybe makes everybody 385 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 4: who's at the feast feel more united. It's, you know, 386 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 4: it cements this idea of community identity, but it also 387 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 4: sort of puts guests in your debt. It is, you know, 388 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 4: empowering to the host in terms of enhancing their perceived 389 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 4: social prestige, maybe even making them feel temporarily like some 390 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 4: kind of king or something. And then there are a 391 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 4: couple of other types of feasts, one of the patron 392 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 4: role feasts, where there is sort of an it's sort 393 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 4: of like without the strings attached. It's an expectation that 394 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 4: the social elite must host, but not necessarily the obligation 395 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 4: for reciprocation by the guests. And then finally, there's what 396 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 4: is called called a diacritical feast, and this is where 397 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 4: subgroups of a culture consume different types of food or 398 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 4: drink to emphasize their difference from other people. 399 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: Interesting. I mean, I don't know if this is a 400 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: useful exercise, but I can't help but try and take 401 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: these categories and apply them to modern communal feasting situations, 402 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: like I do feel like the patron role feast does 403 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 1: sound a lot like the office Christmas party, you know, 404 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 1: where you know, it's kind of expected that the boss 405 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: powers will provide you with some sort of a food 406 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: or you know, some sort of wine from plastic cups 407 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: at least, but there's no it doesn't mean that we 408 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: need to host the next feast for our prisses. 409 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 4: It doesn't put you any more in the boss's debt 410 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 4: or service than you were already. 411 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: Right, But then if they don't know the first category, 412 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: the empowering feast, if your CEO was to suddenly, out 413 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: of the blue, say hey, why don't you and your 414 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: family come over to my house for a little get together. 415 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 4: We're going to have you wonder what they're going to 416 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 4: hit you up for. 417 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that might be some sort of situation where 418 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: there are strings attached. 419 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 4: I'm not sure exactly how best to apply the diacritical 420 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 4: one because I don't know exactly like to what extent 421 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 4: that would apply to religious rituals, like say, like Christian 422 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 4: communion or things like that. I mean, that's where my 423 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 4: brain went, But maybe that doesn't really apply. I'm not sure. 424 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 4: It does make me wonder, like I don't know, you know, 425 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 4: you know, they're like eggnog people and non eggnog people, 426 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 4: and I wonder if oh, that's going nowhere. 427 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, the only thing that comes to mind is pot 428 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: luck for some reason, like I'm imagining different people bringing 429 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: their different dishes and yeah, and maybe missing the mark 430 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: on this. 431 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 4: I don't know if that really serves to emphasize difference. 432 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 4: This may just be a sort of a category that 433 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 4: doesn't really show up in American culture today. 434 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: Maybe it will. Maybe it's the food court at them all, 435 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: celebration of differences. Everybody can get what they want. You 436 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: don't have to like the other person's food. It's just 437 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: about whatever you eat. Maybe not, Maybe. 438 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 4: Does that emphasize your difference? I don't know. 439 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: Is there anything more divisive than the mall food court? 440 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. 441 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 4: I have vivid memories of walking through my mall food 442 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 4: court when I was a kid, because there was a 443 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 4: there was a Japanese place where they would have somebody 444 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 4: out with a tray handing out little bites of chicken taraaki, 445 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,719 Speaker 4: and it was so delicious. They would oh, man, sometimes 446 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 4: I would walk by multiple times. Oh but anyway, So 447 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 4: to come back to the idea of like the magic 448 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 4: power infusing the cauldron as a symbol being in some 449 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 4: way related to the role of cauldrons in feasting traditions, 450 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 4: it strikes me that in many ways the cauldron could 451 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 4: be seen as a symbol kind of like a crown 452 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 4: with this view, because it's you know, it's symbolic of power, 453 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 4: of power over the social order, of like possessing the 454 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 4: kind of the wealth and abundance that you can freely 455 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 4: give out to others by hosting a feast, but also 456 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 4: being symbolic of the ties that bind a community. Another 457 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 4: thing that this paper highlights is the way that cauldrons 458 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 4: are often apparently deposited intact in some deliberate and perhaps 459 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 4: ritual manner in the ground or in the water. They're 460 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 4: sort of buried, seemingly given as offerings to gods or 461 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 4: to ancestors. This would be though it's sort of confusing 462 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 4: because there were some people saying it's not a cauldron. 463 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 4: But this was the case with the Gundestrup cauldron, right 464 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 4: that it was apparently deliberately deposited in the bog. This 465 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 4: also appears to be something that happens with things that 466 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 4: are definitely actually cauldrons used for cooking, and joy makes 467 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 4: a connection between this kind of ritual use and the 468 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 4: use of the cauldron in feasting, saying quote, the use 469 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 4: of cauldrons as receptacles for symbolic food stuffs is drawn 470 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 4: upon in deposition, and they are instead used as containers 471 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 4: for another kind of offering, this time to deities or 472 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 4: ancestors rather than attendees at feasts. So at the end, 473 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 4: Joyce summarizes and says, yeah, probably a major reason why 474 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 4: cauldrons are such a such a respected and fearsome magical 475 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 4: object in all these stories is that they are socially 476 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 4: powerful objects. They represent social power, and they're used in 477 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 4: powerful social customs, mainly feasting, because feasting is something that 478 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 4: establishes hierarchies, that is used as expressions of individual power 479 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 4: or used to strengthen the identity of a community. 480 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: And it's interesting how this seems to apply rather broadly, 481 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: like this could have been a quotation from any of 482 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: the papers we are looking at concerning the cauldrons in 483 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: Eastern traditions as well. The idea the cauldron is a 484 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: thing that can produce a massive quantity of food. It 485 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: can be made to use, to make a sacrifice. It 486 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: as a symbol of power those who possess the cauldron. 487 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: It means something, It stands for something. 488 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm trying to think how this compares to 489 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 4: modern things, like what's a type of serving vessel or 490 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 4: some type of food related thing that you wouldn't really 491 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 4: use just for you and your own household. You only 492 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 4: break out to certain like when you're hosting a party. 493 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 4: I guess maybe a punch bowl, or maybe a fondue 494 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 4: set or something like that. These other things that would 495 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 4: serve a similar function. They're like an object that symbolizes 496 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 4: your your power to host. 497 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I guess you could also get into the 498 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: whole realm of like the fine china, the good silverware, 499 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: and so forth, which is kind of the the cauldronization 500 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: of your entire dining room. I guess. I mean sometimes 501 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: that is part of it. It's like, it's not it's 502 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: the special dining room, the place where we don't normally 503 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: eat dinner, but. 504 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 4: This is a special event. 505 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: So at this point we're gonna finally come around to 506 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: something that a number of you may have been thinking about, 507 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: and that is the Holy Grail. So, given all of 508 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: these associations with cauldrons and rebirth, it's notable that connections 509 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: have certainly been made between pre Christian traditions of sacred 510 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: cauldrons and the medieval legacy of the literary concept of 511 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: the Holy Grail. The grail, after all, is not a 512 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: product of biblical texts, but rather emerges during the medieval period, 513 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: with our earliest mention of it coming from a work 514 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: by Crechian D'stois, a twelfth century French poet. It's thought 515 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: that the concept of the Holy Grail, the goblet which 516 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: collects the blood of Christ, is a combination of pre 517 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: existing cauldron traditions and the right of Eucharist. While generally 518 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: depicted as a cup, especially in more modern renditions, you know, 519 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: this is the thing you're going to see Indiana Jones holding, 520 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: this is the what you're going to see in the 521 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: clouds in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Still other 522 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 1: times it seems to connect with the id. Certainly, when 523 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: you get into the etymology of the word, it connects 524 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: with this idea of a bowl or some other serving 525 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: vessel of varying materials, so it doesn't necessarily need to 526 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: be made of solid gold or whatnot. So very loosely speaking, 527 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: there seems to be a connection between Celtic legends involving cauldrons, 528 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: thirteenth century romances and that end up involving the Grail, 529 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: and then centuries worth of tails to follow. I also 530 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: think it's interesting that while the right of immersion baptism 531 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: and Christian traditions has its roots in the use of 532 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: rivers and streams, modern churches often use artificial baptism tanks 533 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: that wind up feeling more in line with some of 534 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: these ideas of immersion within a cauldron. Did you think 535 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,959 Speaker 1: about any of that as we were rolling through this stuff. 536 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 4: No, I did not really make that connection, though. Yeah, 537 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 4: obviously it is a broader theme, the idea of immersion 538 00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 4: in some kind of liquid being a transformative process, the 539 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 4: process of baptism, which, of course baptism actually you know, 540 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 4: predates Christianity even in the Bible. John the Baptist was 541 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 4: baptizing people in the River Jordan before Christianity was invented. 542 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 4: So you know, this is an idea that goes way 543 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 4: back and is applied in many different contexts. Yeah, and 544 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,479 Speaker 4: so we see it. We see it again in the 545 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 4: imagery on the Gundestrup cauldron. There is something going on 546 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 4: there where there's some kind of baptism like event where 547 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 4: a god is like dunking slain warriors headfirst into a cauldron, 548 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 4: and this is somehow transforming them into some other state. 549 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, speaking of other states, it's time to 550 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: go to Hell once more. So, you know, we mentioned 551 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: in one of the previous Cauldron's episodes that Western connections 552 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: to divine cauldrons may have prevented their use in some 553 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: depictions of hell in later Christian traditions, and despite the 554 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: fact that certainly many of those myths involve people being 555 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: immersed in said cauldrons, and the fact that death by 556 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: cauldron was very much a thing in parts of Europe 557 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: as well. This in talking about European ideas and medieval 558 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: ideas of Hell, of course, there's one place we end 559 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: up having to go to, and that of course is 560 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: Dante's Inferno in the Divine Comedy. 561 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 4: A lot of modern ideas about the Christian Hell are 562 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 4: from Dante there. You know, you can't find them anywhere 563 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 4: in the Bible. 564 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: Right, right, And beyond hell. I mean you get into 565 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: the idea of purgatory, et cetera. I mean, Dante's work 566 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: was incredibly influential. And if you start looking around though 567 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: for examples of death by cauldron or cauldron immersion or 568 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: you know, cauldron torture in Dante's Inferno, you do find 569 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: a few interesting things. So in Canto twenty three, in 570 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: which it depicts the torment of hypocrites who wear cloaks 571 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: with hoods, bright colors and lead linings, yeah, we see 572 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: a reference to death by cauldron. This is in the 573 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: city trench of the Malibolga. I'm going to read from 574 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: a translation here. Outside these cloaks were gilded, and they dazzled, 575 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: but inside they were all of lead, so heavy that 576 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: Frederick's capes were straw compared to them, a tiring mantle 577 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: for eternity. We turned again, as always, to the left, 578 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: along with them, intent on their sad weeping. But with 579 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: their weights the wary people pace so slowly that we 580 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: found ourselves among new company each time we took a step. 581 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: And then the Dante comes back to this, and one 582 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: of them replied, the yellow cloaks are of a lead 583 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: so thick their heaviness makes us the balances beneath them creak. Now, 584 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: the illusion here apparently is to death by cauldron, and 585 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: I was looking into this in the notes to the 586 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: Durling and Martinez edition of Donte's Inferno that I have. 587 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: There was apparently a guelf propaganda campaign against Holy Roman 588 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: Emperor Frederick, who lived eleven ninety four through twelve fifty, 589 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: that charged him with him having punished traders by encasing 590 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: them in lead and then roasting them. At least in 591 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: some tellings, this was achieved by placing the lead cloaked 592 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: individual inside of a cauldron. Now, the Guelphs were a 593 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: political faction who supported the papacy against the Holy Roman Emperor, 594 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: and they were opposed by the Ghibelines, who basically had 595 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: the opposite values. Now, on top of this, there are 596 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: boilings in the Inferno. There are boilings of plenty. Most 597 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: notably there is the River of Plegathon, which is literally 598 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: a river of boiling blood in which the souls of 599 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: the damned writhe Here, those who perpetrated violence against other 600 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: humans are tormented. You have centaurs patrolling the banks of 601 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: the river, pelting anyone with arrows if they try to 602 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: rise above their station in the river. 603 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 4: I seem to recall Virgil and Dante end up talking 604 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 4: to these centaurs a good bit. 605 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: I've forgotten the kind of with the centaurs, but they 606 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: have so many wonderful conversations. Now elsewhere, at the back 607 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: of the Maliboga, the evil ditches of torment. The fifth 608 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: trench consists of a river of burning pitch, and here 609 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: the demons of the Malabraca use cruel skewers to make 610 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: sure the grafters punished here stay immersed and don't escape. 611 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: And Durling and Martinez translate part of this as follows 612 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: quote not otherwise do cooks have their servants push down 613 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: with hooks the meat cooking in a broth so that 614 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: it may float. So here once more we have cooking imagery, 615 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: and the authors discuss this at length. They have a 616 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: little bit in the back where they break this down 617 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: a bit more so. Dante was essentially building upon various 618 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: well established metaphors here, especially for frauds, counterfeits, and other 619 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: false individuals who are tormented in this particular portion of 620 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: the inferno. Various of the parts of the Maliboga feature 621 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: quote sharply focused parodies of cooking and digestion. So this 622 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: part of the Inferno is kind of like they say, 623 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: a great spider web, but also it is kind of 624 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: like the belly or the winding intestines of Hell. There's 625 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: a lot here about the consumer being consumed. Cooking metaphors 626 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: were often wound up in discussing the fraudulent, and we 627 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: see that today as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, cooking the 628 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: books there also the scheme is cooked up if we're 629 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,879 Speaker 1: tricked into following it, you know, we're eating it up, 630 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: or we're being fed a lie or a fedicon that 631 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: sort of thing. 632 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 4: M Yeah. 633 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: So Dante, as always is painting with a number of 634 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: paletts here, but touches on various elements that we've discussed 635 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: already in this series. Cooking is digestion, cooking as transformation, 636 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,959 Speaker 1: cooking as torment. There are also various depictions of Hell 637 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: outside of Dante's work of Hell as a Cauldron, though, 638 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: of course Dante's layout for the Inferno is far more 639 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: common complex than that, not geared around a single technological metaphor, 640 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: but a larger mix of influences and illusions. You can't 641 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: you can't tie Dante down and just ask him to 642 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: compare all of hell to just one thing. That's that's 643 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 1: not the game he's playing. Though, of course Christian Hell 644 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: and Dante's version of it in Inferno, we have to 645 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: remind ourselves this is not a transformative realm like we 646 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: see in Eastern traditions of hell, where it's about the 647 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,439 Speaker 1: soul being transformed into something else. No, it doesn't. Even 648 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:38,359 Speaker 1: these versions of Hell don't even accomplish transformation via annihilation. Now, 649 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: certainly within the Divine Comedy you get into purgatory, and 650 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: that is about transformation, and certainly that concept, the concept 651 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: of purgatory that we see within the Divine Comedy has 652 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: more in common with Eastern traditions of the afterlife. Anyway. 653 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: There still, on top of this, there are certainly visual 654 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: and literary depictions of hell cauldrons in Christian and your traditions. 655 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 1: I don't imagine you could keep them out of Hell 656 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: if you wanted to, even if you have, you know, 657 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 1: say again like a Celtic tradition in the background, in 658 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: which the cauldron seems a little too holy and know, 659 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: a little too special to be a part of some 660 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: sort of delirious hell. Painting. Somebody is going to be like, oh, 661 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: but what if you were cooked in a soup? Or 662 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: how about that guy that we boiled last week for 663 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,959 Speaker 1: making fraudulent coins. Like, the idea is going to worm 664 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: its way in there. There's no way you're going to 665 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: keep that image out of your imagined afterlife. 666 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,720 Speaker 4: None of this hell imagery really seems to have anything 667 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 4: to do with with hosting or feasting, does it. 668 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: No? But but I mean it does have a lot 669 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: to do with with eating and digestion. So I mean 670 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: everything's seated at the same table one way or another. 671 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 4: Here, I'm still thinking about modern analogies for the cauldron 672 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 4: as a symbol of hosting power. So I said the 673 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 4: punch bowl earlier be the fun due said, if it 674 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 4: was the I don't know, the seventies or eighties whenever 675 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 4: that was. But the one that just came to me 676 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 4: is like the really nice smoker, you know. 677 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the green ones and so forth. 678 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to host a barbecue and look 679 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 4: all the look at all the meat I can make. 680 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:16,439 Speaker 4: Oh yeah yeah. 681 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,479 Speaker 1: Big grills in general, Yeah, I think totally. A really 682 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: nice charcoal grill or gas grill is very much in 683 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: keeping with the tradition of the cauldron, and I mean 684 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: the idea of a low country boil, or it's variations 685 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: of the low country boil, in which you know, essentially, 686 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: essentially you have a cauldron and you're going to cook 687 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: up a whole bunch of shrimp and a few veggies 688 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: and so forth. You know, that's very much in the tradition. 689 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: Spill it all out on the table and let's all 690 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: have a feast. I don't know that that would really 691 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 1: be a special pot, but I mean just sometimes when 692 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: we're talking about special, we could be talking about an 693 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: ornate vessel. But sometimes it's just the fact that it 694 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: is large. I have a pot large enough to create 695 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: a low country boiled. That's in and of itself is impressive. 696 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 4: You've got family in Louisiana, right, or. 697 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: Do you down in that area? Yes, southern Mississippi? 698 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, you do crawfish boils or have you done that? 699 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah? Yeah? So basically a big, a big metal 700 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,839 Speaker 1: cauldron in the front yard with gas flame underneath it, 701 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,240 Speaker 1: cooking up a bunch of shrump. 702 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 4: Some older man telling like scolding you for not sucking 703 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 4: the heads on you. You gotta suck the heads experience. 704 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: That's what they say. Yeah, with the with the crawl dads, 705 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: the mudbugs. 706 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 4: Okay, I think maybe we're done. 707 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, obviously we'd love to hear from 708 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: everyone out there about very certainly this question, like the 709 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: special thing in your household or a household you grew 710 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: up in, or or just you know, cultural tradition surrounding you, 711 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: like what is what is your version of the sacred cauldron, 712 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: the sacred vestival for feasts? What is the or or 713 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: what is the dish that is central to your experiences 714 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: that the matches up with all of this. We'd love 715 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: to hear thoughts on that, about anything we've discussed in 716 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,399 Speaker 1: these four episodes on the Cauldron. So we'll be back 717 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: next time with something new, something non cauldron related. So 718 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: we hope you'll join us. Core episodes of Stuff to 719 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind air on Tuesdays and Thursdays in the 720 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed. On Mondays we 721 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,479 Speaker 1: usually do a listener mail episode. On Wednesdays we usually 722 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 1: do a short form artifact or monster fact episode, and 723 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: on Fridays we do weird house Cinema. That's our time 724 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: to set aside most serious concerns and just talk about 725 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: a strange film. 726 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 4: Huge thanks, as always to our excellent audio producer Seth 727 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 4: Nicholas Johnson. If you would love to get in touch 728 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 4: with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 729 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 4: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to 730 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 4: say hello, you can email us at contact stuff to 731 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:51,760 Speaker 4: Blow your Mind dot com. 732 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 733 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 3: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 734 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Two favorite shows