Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold
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Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts
Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has
Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply
Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime
Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2: The morning of Friday, May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine
Speaker 2: started out like just another day for Julie Pate's and
Speaker 2: the rest of her family. Her husband, stand a photographer,
Speaker 2: and her children, eight year old Shira, six year old Aton,
Speaker 2: and two year old Ari. It was a busy morning.
Speaker 2: Julie ran a daycare out of her soho loft at
Speaker 2: one thirteen Prince Street in New York City. She was
Speaker 2: getting her own kids ready for the day and at
Speaker 2: the same time preparing for the influx of kids who
Speaker 2: would be arriving soon. Shia didn't want to roll out
Speaker 2: of bed, but Aton, who his family described as a sweet,
Speaker 2: loving and friendly boy, was excited to start his school day.
Speaker 2: Six year old Aton asked his mom if he could
Speaker 2: walk the two short blocks to the school bus stop
Speaker 2: alone for the very first time. He'd been asking his
Speaker 2: parents all year if he could take the bus to
Speaker 2: his school, PS three on Greenwich Street, and his mom
Speaker 2: and dad had always said no, But it was the
Speaker 2: last few weeks of the school year, and so his
Speaker 2: mom said okay. In her book After Aton, the Missing
Speaker 2: Childcase That Held America Captive, author Lisa Cohen detailed that
Speaker 2: morning for the Pates family. Julie got Shira and Aton dressed.
Speaker 2: Aton was wearing blue pants with a blue corduroy jacket,
Speaker 2: a T shirt with his light blue sneakers with fluorescent
Speaker 2: green stripes on the side, and a future flight captain
Speaker 2: pilot's cap. Julie was also packing for a trip. Some
Speaker 2: friends had invited their family to come to their country
Speaker 2: house for the weekend. Aton ate his breakfast toast and
Speaker 2: chocolate milk and picked up his blue lunch bag with
Speaker 2: white elephants. Julie later told the New York Times that
Speaker 2: she remembers him stuffing toy trucks into his school bag.
Speaker 2: Aton had a plan that day. He had a dollar
Speaker 2: in his pocket, which a neighborhood handyman had given him
Speaker 2: the day before when Aton helped him in his workshop.
Speaker 2: Aton was going to stop at the corner bodega at
Speaker 2: Prince and West Broadway and by a soda before getting
Speaker 2: on the bus. The kids left the house just before
Speaker 2: eight am. Julie followed Aton downstairs down the three floor walk.
Speaker 2: At the time, Julie told police she could see other
Speaker 2: kids and parents walking toward the bus stop, and she
Speaker 2: kissed her son goodbye as she watched him walk down
Speaker 2: the street. Before going back upstairs, she told herself that
Speaker 2: it was only two blocks. This was the last time
Speaker 2: that Julie ever saw her son. This case became a
Speaker 2: huge story, not just in New York, but in the
Speaker 2: entire country. Aton Pates became the literal poster child for
Speaker 2: missing children, and Julie and her husbands stand were the
Speaker 2: living embodiment of every parent's worst nightmare. What if your
Speaker 2: child disappeared one day and you never found out what
Speaker 2: really happened to them. I've wanted to talk about this
Speaker 2: case for a long time. I live in New York City,
Speaker 2: just a couple of blocks from Aton's house. This is
Speaker 2: a case that has, for lack of a better phrase,
Speaker 2: taken more tortuous twists and turns for these parents than
Speaker 2: any other case I've ever in investigated or researched. There
Speaker 2: is so much information out there about this case, a
Speaker 2: lot of it has never been made public in news reports,
Speaker 2: and forty six years later, this case is still active.
Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past seven years of making
Speaker 2: my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned that there's
Speaker 2: no such thing as a small town where murder never happens.
Speaker 2: I have received hundreds of messages from people all around
Speaker 2: the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's
Speaker 2: affected them, their families, and their communities. If you have
Speaker 2: a case you'd like me and my team to look into,
Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone
Speaker 2: Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six
Speaker 2: one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four
Speaker 2: six one four five, or you can send us a
Speaker 2: message on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod. This is Helen
Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line. When Aton didn't come back from school
Speaker 2: at around three point thirty pm. His mother, Julie, was worried.
Speaker 2: She called the school, She called friends, no one had
Speaker 2: seen it. Julie found out later that Aton hadn't made
Speaker 2: it at all to school that day. In fact, the
Speaker 2: bus driver hadn't seen him board the bus, and parents
Speaker 2: and kids who police interviewed later, ones who knew Aton
Speaker 2: said they hadn't seen him waiting for the bus. Julie
Speaker 2: was frantic. She called her husband, Stan, who was uptown
Speaker 2: on a photoshoot. He immediately came home, and police quickly
Speaker 2: began searching for Aton. They canvassed the entire neighborhood. Two detectives,
Speaker 2: Detective Ianello and Detective Bill Butler, who both worked the
Speaker 2: case on the first day, told forty eight Hours that
Speaker 2: the case deeply affected them. They were both fathers, and
Speaker 2: when they looked at photos of Aton, they saw their
Speaker 2: own children. In nineteen eighty six, Bill Butler actually took
Speaker 2: his own life. According to forty eight Hours, Some people
Speaker 2: believed that his frustration over the lack of progress in
Speaker 2: the Aton Pates case contributed to his decision. Police got
Speaker 2: a picture from Stan, which became the iconic photo that
Speaker 2: people later saw on posters all over New York City
Speaker 2: and later on milk cart all across the country. The
Speaker 2: picture showed Aton, six years old, blonde hair and blue eyes,
Speaker 2: weighing fifty pounds, last seen at eight a m. At
Speaker 2: Prince and Wooster Street, headed for the bus stop. Soho
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy nine was a very different place than
Speaker 2: it is today. It was much grittier, and New York
Speaker 2: City in general had a much higher crime rate back then.
Speaker 2: At the same time, Aton and his family lived in
Speaker 2: a close knit artistic community, and Julie and Stan had
Speaker 2: been a part of the artistic community that built the neighborhood.
Speaker 2: They renovated a twenty one hundred square foot loft, which
Speaker 2: was pretty raw when they moved in, since most of
Speaker 2: the building was commercial space. The place had no water
Speaker 2: or electricity at first, so they built everything themselves. Stan
Speaker 2: put in the floors himself and did all the renovations.
Speaker 2: He built sleep lofts for the kids. Even though Soho
Speaker 2: had more crime back then, that area had tons of
Speaker 2: artists and everyone kind of knew everyone else. Famous artists
Speaker 2: like Philip Glass and Chuck Close were Julian Stan's neighbors,
Speaker 2: and everyone chipped in to help search for Aton. Volunteers
Speaker 2: formed the Aton Pates Action Committee. Fliers of Aton's face
Speaker 2: were posted everywhere while Stan and Julie called friends and
Speaker 2: walked around the neighborhood looking for Aton. At some point,
Speaker 2: a woman named Susan, who sometimes walked Aton to school
Speaker 2: during the nineteen seventy nine school bus strike that it
Speaker 2: ended ten days earlier, showed up at Stan and Julie's loft.
Speaker 2: She was planning to get their keys, since she was
Speaker 2: supposed to be house sitting that weekend while the family
Speaker 2: went to the country, but of course that trip was
Speaker 2: now canceled. In New York City and eventually all across
Speaker 2: the country, this story became big news, and unfortunately, not
Speaker 2: all of the people who contacted the family and police
Speaker 2: with tips were genuine or had good intentions. Julie and
Speaker 2: Stan set up a call center in their home. They
Speaker 2: talked to multiple people who demanded thousands of dollars for information.
Speaker 2: A few weeks after Aton disappeared, there was a news
Speaker 2: story about Aton potentially being alive in Massachusetts. Later, it
Speaker 2: came out the tipster wanted one thousand dollars in reward
Speaker 2: money for giving this information. To journalists. The information turned
Speaker 2: out to be bogus, and the tipster had called more
Speaker 2: than one publication to try to get money out of them.
Speaker 2: There were also rumors that Stan and Julie had somehow
Speaker 2: been involved, or that they did the whole thing as
Speaker 2: some kind of publicity stunt. Now there was zero evidence
Speaker 2: for that, but that didn't stop some people from gossiping
Speaker 2: and from ripping down missing posters. Even some police officers
Speaker 2: were suspicious of Aton's parents. One of the officers made
Speaker 2: the comment to investigators in twenty twelve that he had
Speaker 2: been a little bit suspicious of Stan because, in his opinion,
Speaker 2: Stan hadn't immediately started helping in the search. Instead, he
Speaker 2: was working on his computer. As I read about this case,
Speaker 2: I just could not imagine what Stan and Julie must
Speaker 2: have been going through. Not only were they dealing with
Speaker 2: reporters basically stalking them, hanging out outside their doors, but
Speaker 2: they had to deal with all these people making comments,
Speaker 2: especially to Julie, statements implying that it was basically her fault.
Speaker 2: The NYPD's first Precinct, which covers all of Lower Manhattan
Speaker 2: south of Houston Street, continued to work the case. We
Speaker 2: were able to access a lot of information about their
Speaker 2: investigation through FOYA, but most of what I saw focused
Speaker 2: on the police's later investigation starting in twenty twelve. From
Speaker 2: those files we were able to see police went back
Speaker 2: and talked to a lot of the officers who worked
Speaker 2: the initial scene. Police canvass the entire area. They had
Speaker 2: officers crawling into drain pipes, climbing into freezers, into basement
Speaker 2: and crawl spaces. Eventually, they went down to city Hall
Speaker 2: to get the plans for every single building in the area,
Speaker 2: including a lot of empty commercial properties, so that they
Speaker 2: could search everywhere. Everyone had a theory. Some people wondered
Speaker 2: if it was possible that Aton missed the bus and
Speaker 2: walked back home. Since he was too short to reach
Speaker 2: the buzzer, maybe he went somewhere else. Police brought in bloodhounds,
Speaker 2: who alerted near the Patess loft. The dog stopped at
Speaker 2: Jim Lumber, three blocks away on Spring Street. This was
Speaker 2: a place that Aton had stopped by on several occasions,
Speaker 2: but the dogs got no further. The owner of the
Speaker 2: store told The New York Times that he had seen
Speaker 2: Aton and another boy in the dumpster pulling out scraps
Speaker 2: of Wood. He thought that he saw them that day
Speaker 2: after school May twenty fifth, at around four thirty or
Speaker 2: five pm, but later admitted he had probably been wrong
Speaker 2: about the day. Weeks and months passed, there was no
Speaker 2: ransom note or any sign of Aton. According to Lisa
Speaker 2: Cohen's book, police even used hypnosis on Julie to help
Speaker 2: her recall every single detail of what happened the morning
Speaker 2: her son vanished. Aton's father, Stan started to consider one
Speaker 2: of two scenarios. A very sad woman desperate for a
Speaker 2: child of her own had kidnapped Aton to raise him.
Speaker 2: In that theory, the kidnapper would raise Aton and keep
Speaker 2: him safe. Stan's other theory was that a stranger had
Speaker 2: taken Aton and killed him. Police followed up on leeds
Speaker 2: all over the world, even decades later, when they interviewed
Speaker 2: and ultimately discounted someone in Europe who claimed to be Aton.
Speaker 2: Several other people called and claimed to be Stan and
Speaker 2: Julie's son as an adult as the years passed, but
Speaker 2: none of the leads or sightings ever checked out. Time
Speaker 2: went by, as the neighbor he had gentrified, and an
Speaker 2: upscale eyeglass store moved to the spot where the Bodega
Speaker 2: used to be. Stan and Julie stayed put. They wanted
Speaker 2: to be in the same place in case, by some miracle,
Speaker 2: Aton came home, though they did tell reporters over the
Speaker 2: years they'd accepted this would probably never happen. According to
Speaker 2: forty eight Hours, Over the years, there were a lot
Speaker 2: of tips submitted to police claiming that Aton had been
Speaker 2: stolen by a Colton Westchester, or had been trafficked, or
Speaker 2: was living under another name in Europe. In nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 2: President Ronald Reagan designated May twenty fifth, the day that
Speaker 2: Aton went missing, as National Missing Children's Day. In nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty five, the case was passed to assistant US Attorney
Speaker 2: Stuart Grebois, and soon he publicly identified as suspect a
Speaker 2: convicted child molester named Jose Antonio Ramos. Assisting US attorney
Speaker 2: Stuart Grabois identified Jose Ramos as a suspect in Aton
Speaker 2: Pates's case in nineteen eighty five, nearly six years after
Speaker 2: Aton went missing, Jose was being held in Pennsylvania on
Speaker 2: suspicion of child molestation. Stuart Grabois learned that multiple boys
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two had accused Jose of trying to
Speaker 2: get them to come into a drain pipe with him.
Speaker 2: Stuart Grabois told forty eight Hours that he and the
Speaker 2: FBI had learned that Jose Ramos traveled the country in
Speaker 2: a converted school bus and lured children in using matchbox
Speaker 2: cars and other toys and then molested them. Not only that,
Speaker 2: but Jose had a connection to the Pates family. At
Speaker 2: the time of Aton's disappearance. Jose had been dating their
Speaker 2: sometimes house sitter, Susan, the woman who had walked Aton
Speaker 2: to school during that bus strike. It turned out that
Speaker 2: people in Aton's building knew Jose, but they knew him
Speaker 2: by another name, Michael, and Michael had also spent time
Speaker 2: with Susan's son, Barrett in nineteen seventy nine. Barrett was
Speaker 2: four years old at the time when Aton went missing.
Speaker 2: This seemed like a promising lead. Stuart Grabois arranged to
Speaker 2: be deputized in Pennsylvania so that he could work on
Speaker 2: prosecuting Jose Ramos for the charges there and to interview
Speaker 2: him about any possible involvement in Aton's case. Jose Ramos
Speaker 2: admitted that he took a boy back up to his
Speaker 2: apartment to rape him on the day that Aton disappeared.
Speaker 2: At the time, Jose Ramos was staying in an apartment
Speaker 2: in the East Village on East thirteenth Street. He said
Speaker 2: that on the day Aton disappeared, he was milling around
Speaker 2: Washington Square Park. He said that he saw a boy
Speaker 2: playing handball. Jose said he was ninety percent sure that
Speaker 2: this was the boy he saw on TV, though he
Speaker 2: never mentioned by his real name. Jose said the boy
Speaker 2: told him his name was Jimmy and that he had
Speaker 2: an aunt living in Washington Heights. Jose said he lured
Speaker 2: the boy up to his apartment, gave him apple juice,
Speaker 2: and started to feel around his legs. He said at
Speaker 2: some point the boy got uncomfortable. Then Jose claimed that
Speaker 2: he lifted the boy up and tried to have sex
Speaker 2: with him, but that the boy kept saying no, he
Speaker 2: didn't want to do that. Jose claimed that the boys
Speaker 2: said he needed to go to school, and then Jose
Speaker 2: said he stopped assaulting him and walked out of the
Speaker 2: apartment with him. He said they got into a taxi
Speaker 2: to go back to Soho, but that at some point
Speaker 2: the boy changed his mind and said he wanted to
Speaker 2: go uptown to Washington Heights to visit that aunt. Jose
Speaker 2: claimed that he bought the boy a subway token and
Speaker 2: left him to get on the train at the sixth
Speaker 2: Avenue train station, waving goodbye as he left. Investigators were
Speaker 2: not buying this story. They suspense that Jose was lying. Logistically,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, the Washington Square Park meeting does not
Speaker 2: seem to make a lot of sense. Aton was very
Speaker 2: clearly headed to school when he left home. Washington Square
Speaker 2: Park is several blocks north of there. But I also
Speaker 2: think that it could be more plausible Jose could have
Speaker 2: encountered Aton back near his parents' apartment. He did hang
Speaker 2: out at the Pate's apartment building with Susan. She was
Speaker 2: due to come to the Pates loft that day to
Speaker 2: get the keys to their apartment. Even though Jose had
Speaker 2: sketchy details and didn't use Aton's name, Stuart Grabois was
Speaker 2: convinced that this was the guy who took Aton, and
Speaker 2: he was convinced of that for decades. Stuart Grabois had
Speaker 2: an informant from inside the prison. Much later, this jail
Speaker 2: house informant testified in court that while he and Jose
Speaker 2: Ramos were cellmates, that Jose confessed to him that he
Speaker 2: had molested and murdered Aton. The informant, Jeffrey Rothschild, said
Speaker 2: Jose told Aton that what they were doing was good.
Speaker 2: Jeffrey claimed that he asked Jose if Aton was dead.
Speaker 2: He said Jose responded, quote, what do you think. Of
Speaker 2: course he's dead, but they'll never find a body. There's
Speaker 2: no proof. End quote. In nineteen eighty two, Jose Ramos
Speaker 2: was living on the streets in a drain pipe. Inside
Speaker 2: that drain pipe, according to The New York Post, he
Speaker 2: had religious items, a mattress, and a bunch of children's toys.
Speaker 2: That year, Jose was arrested and charged in connection with
Speaker 2: trying to lure two young boys into his makeshift home.
Speaker 2: During the course of that investigation, police found several photos
Speaker 2: of young boys, some in front of X rated theaters
Speaker 2: in Times Square, others in the drain pipe, including one
Speaker 2: young boy with blonde hair that police said resembled Aton.
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty eight, awfording to the book, Stuart Grabois
Speaker 2: told Stan Pates about his theory that Jose Ramos had
Speaker 2: molested and killed Aton. Stan had to absorb the horrific
Speaker 2: reality that a man charged with luring young boys into
Speaker 2: a drain pipe might have taken his son and to
Speaker 2: consider the implications of what he might have done with him.
Speaker 2: Stuart Grabois and his team questioned Stan, Julie, and a
Speaker 2: lot of their neighbors about their recollections of Jose and
Speaker 2: Susan and susan son. Stuart Grabois actually interviewed Susan's son,
Speaker 2: who again was four years old at the time of
Speaker 2: Aton's disappearance. The son told Stuart Grabois that Jose had
Speaker 2: touched him inappropriately. Back then, though the statute of limitations
Speaker 2: on child molestation was only nine years so a lot
Speaker 2: of the allegations against Jose Ramos could not be prosecuted.
Speaker 2: Despite Stuart Graboa's suspicions and the FBI helping with the investigation,
Speaker 2: investigators had no physical evidence and no witnesses. Jose's confession
Speaker 2: did have details about Aton having fluorescent stripes on his
Speaker 2: tennis shoes, but those details were public at that point.
Speaker 2: They were all over missing posters, and other details didn't
Speaker 2: seem to match. For example, Jose said the boy he
Speaker 2: assaulted was wearing a Western belt and he never mentioned
Speaker 2: Aton by name. Jose Ramos did get a prison sentence
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, after being convicted of sexually assaulting an eight
Speaker 2: year old boy there, but in the end, Jose was
Speaker 2: never charged in connection with Aton's abduction. Stan and Julie
Speaker 2: were understandably devastated at this turn of events. The district
Speaker 2: attorney at the time, Robert Morgenthal, just never felt that
Speaker 2: there was enough evidence to prosecute. In two thousand, Stan
Speaker 2: and Julie started to explore the idea of launching a
Speaker 2: civil wrongful death lawsuit against Jose Ramos. In two thousand
Speaker 2: and four, they filed that suit. Julie went through the
Speaker 2: very painful emotional process of having Aton legally declared dead
Speaker 2: in two thousand and one so that they would be
Speaker 2: able to file the lawsuit. They won a two million
Speaker 2: dollar judgment in that case, but they were never paid.
Speaker 2: Jose Ramos ended up serving twenty seven years in prison
Speaker 2: in total for the assault on the eight year old
Speaker 2: and a second offense with a child. He was released
Speaker 2: on November seventh, twenty twelve. For years this case went quiet, Stan,
Speaker 2: Julie and their children tried to move on with their lives.
Speaker 2: Aton's case struck fears into the heart of families in
Speaker 2: the city and around the country, and made families much
Speaker 2: more aware of stranger danger. Over the years, Stan and
Speaker 2: Julie became advocates for missing children. They campaigned for laws
Speaker 2: that would make it easier and faster for law enforcement
Speaker 2: agencies to share information about missing children, and they never
Speaker 2: gave up. Stan gods involved in Manhattan's District attorney races,
Speaker 2: and in twenty ten he persuaded the new district Attorney,
Speaker 2: Cyrus Vance Junior, to take another look at the case,
Speaker 2: which investigators did, and then suddenly, in twenty twelve, there
Speaker 2: was a massive break in the case and once again
Speaker 2: Aton Pates made headlines. News broke that FBI investigators were
Speaker 2: raiding a soho basement at one twenty seven B Prince Street,
Speaker 2: where Aton's sister had once attended daycare. They were looking
Speaker 2: for blood and human remains. In twenty twelve, thirty three
Speaker 2: years after Aton Pates disappeared during a short two block
Speaker 2: walk to the school bus stop, the FBI started searching
Speaker 2: the basement of a building near where he lived, the
Speaker 2: same building that once housed his sister's daycare. The New
Speaker 2: York Post interviewed some of the parents who had taken
Speaker 2: their children there. There were around thirteen kids who played
Speaker 2: there regularly, including Aton and his sister Shira. It turned
Speaker 2: out they suspected the handyman who had done work at
Speaker 2: the daycare. His name was othaneil Miller, and he was
Speaker 2: actually the same handyman who had also done work for
Speaker 2: Stan and Julie, according to forty eight Hours, and Othan
Speaker 2: neil Miller was the person who paid Aton a dollar
Speaker 2: the day before for helping him with a task in
Speaker 2: his workshop, the same dollar that Aton so proudly carried
Speaker 2: to the bus stop on the day he went missing.
Speaker 2: Authorities obtained a search warrant after Othniel's ex wife told
Speaker 2: law enforcement that he raped his ten year old niece.
Speaker 2: A few years after Aton's disappearance, Othnil's attorneys and family
Speaker 2: said he had cooperated with police since the very beginning
Speaker 2: and that he had nothing to do with aton subduction.
Speaker 2: The New York Post reported that back in nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 2: investigators had noticed freshly poured concrete in Othneil's workshop, but
Speaker 2: apparently police decided not to dig up the concrete because
Speaker 2: they were told they would have to pay for repairs.
Speaker 2: A local artist, Steve Cosma, told the Post that the
Speaker 2: workshop in the building looked like kind of a labyrinth, saying, quote,
Speaker 2: every time I went down there, there was a different wall.
Speaker 2: It was a maze. Othaniil probably put in some of
Speaker 2: those walls end quote. During the search in twenty twelve,
Speaker 2: a cadaver dog alerted to possible human remains, and police
Speaker 2: did dig up the concrete. Also, according to WNBCTV News,
Speaker 2: police were examining what they called a stain of interest
Speaker 2: on a piece of drywall. Later it was reported the
Speaker 2: stain tested negative for blood. The NYPD and FBI stayed
Speaker 2: down there a long time. They sprayed lumino, they did
Speaker 2: other testing. They kept digging, and they found bones. But
Speaker 2: the bones found under the concrete of the old daycare
Speaker 2: that was just one block away from where Aton Pates
Speaker 2: had lived with his family, turned out to be animal bones,
Speaker 2: which sources told NBC News actually came from Chinese takeout containers,
Speaker 2: another dead end. NBC also reported that investigators questioned a
Speaker 2: man who once worked with Othanil Miller named Jesse Snell.
Speaker 2: He was reportedly seen at the SOHO building the day
Speaker 2: that Aton vanished. But in the end, investigators found nothing
Speaker 2: of evidentiary value, and neither Othnil nor anyone else they
Speaker 2: questioned in connection with that basement where Aton had played
Speaker 2: were ever charged, but the headlines about the case brought
Speaker 2: forward more tips, including one that would massively change the
Speaker 2: direction of the case and focus police on yet another suspect.
Speaker 2: The brother in law of a man named Pedro Hernandez
Speaker 2: contacted police. Pedro was eighteen years old at the time
Speaker 2: when Aton disappeared. He had been working at that corner
Speaker 2: bodega at Prince in West Broadway, right by the bus
Speaker 2: stop where Aton planned to stop, and by soda. Shortly
Speaker 2: after Aton disappeared, Pedro had left the area and moved
Speaker 2: back home to New Jersey. Over the years, he had
Speaker 2: gotten married and had children. The brother in law told
Speaker 2: police that back in the early eighties, Pedro made remarks
Speaker 2: in a church group about having killed a child in
Speaker 2: New York City. Pedro's sister and another church member confirmed
Speaker 2: that Pedro had commented in this group retreat in the
Speaker 2: early eighties that he possibly killed a child, but stated
Speaker 2: no one in that group ever called the police. Police
Speaker 2: had actually interviewed Pedro during their initial canvas, but he
Speaker 2: was never really on their radar. Pedro never mentioned Aton's
Speaker 2: name or anything specific about the crime to that church group,
Speaker 2: But in twenty twelve police started to take a closer
Speaker 2: look at him. Pedro was living in Maple Shade, New Jersey.
Speaker 2: Police went to his home to talk to him. Pedro
Speaker 2: agreed to come to the Prosecutor's office in New Jersey
Speaker 2: to talk to investigators. In a first interview, which happened
Speaker 2: off camera, he initially denied any involvement in Aton's abduction
Speaker 2: and murder, but then he confessed. Pedro said he lured
Speaker 2: Aton into the bodega's basement by offering him a soda.
Speaker 2: Then he said he strangled him and threw his body
Speaker 2: into a produce box. Pedro said that Ayton was still
Speaker 2: breathing when he put him in that box, carried the
Speaker 2: box out and put it out with the trash. Pedro
Speaker 2: was arrested and charged with Aton's murder two days before
Speaker 2: the thirty third anniversary of Aton's disappearance. But it turned
Speaker 2: out there was some very serious problems with Pedro's confession.
Speaker 2: First of all, the police did not read him his
Speaker 2: rights until several hours into questioning, and he wasn't videotaped
Speaker 2: for the first six hours that he was in with police.
Speaker 2: They then asked Pedro to confess again on videotape, which
Speaker 2: he did, and he signed a missing poster of Aton,
Speaker 2: saying I'm sorry I choke him, but then later he
Speaker 2: took back those confessions. Also, Pedro had a low IQ and,
Speaker 2: according to his attorney, a history of mental illness. At times,
Speaker 2: the attorney claimed Pedro had delusions, very vivid hallucinations that
Speaker 2: seemed real. Police questioned Pedro for seven hours. His council
Speaker 2: claimed that by the end of all this, because Pedro
Speaker 2: was susceptible to this type of manipulation, the police probably
Speaker 2: had him convinced that he did kill Aton. At the
Speaker 2: time of the confession. Pedro was also on medication, including fentanyl,
Speaker 2: to deal with his mental health conditions. His lawyers stated
Speaker 2: in court had a schizotypal personality disorder, which included, according
Speaker 2: to the New York Times quote, symptoms such as severe
Speaker 2: social anxiety, paranoia, and odd beliefs end quote. The defense
Speaker 2: psychiatrists said Pedro heard voices, had visions, and was unable
Speaker 2: to distinguish reality from fantasy. His attorney also told forty
Speaker 2: eight Hours there were parts of Pedro's story that didn't
Speaker 2: make any sense, including the fact Pedro said he saw
Speaker 2: Aton at the bus stop that morning. There were a
Speaker 2: lot of children and parents who were congregated. There some
Speaker 2: people who knew Aton. None of them said they saw
Speaker 2: Pedro or Aton that morning. The evidence points to Aton
Speaker 2: never making it to that bus stop. Pedro was charged
Speaker 2: with second degree murder and he pleaded not guilty. In
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, he went on trial for the murder of
Speaker 2: Aton Pates in Manhattan State Supreme Court, but the jurors
Speaker 2: failed to reach a verdict. One juror refused to convict
Speaker 2: because of several factors like the lack of physical evidence
Speaker 2: and the problems with the confession. The judge was forced
Speaker 2: to declare a mistrial. Another problem with that trial, by
Speaker 2: the way, was the fact that police had for years
Speaker 2: very publicly focused on Jose Ramos, and Pedro's attorneys presented
Speaker 2: a lot of evidence that they claim show that Jose
Speaker 2: Ramos could have killed Aton. In twenty seventeen, Pedro Hernandez
Speaker 2: went on trial again. This time he was found guilty
Speaker 2: and convicted of murder. He was sentenced to twenty five
Speaker 2: years to life in prison. His lawyers continued to deny
Speaker 2: that he had any involvement in Aton's murder. They insisted
Speaker 2: the only reason he confessed was due to his mental illness,
Speaker 2: the one that caused him to hallucinate. And again there
Speaker 2: was no physical evidence and no witness. According to WNYC.
Speaker 2: At the sentencing hearing, Stan and Julie said they would
Speaker 2: never forgive Pedro Hernandez for what he had done to
Speaker 2: their son. Stan said, quote, Pedro Hernandez, after all these years,
Speaker 2: we finally know what dark secret you had locked in
Speaker 2: your heart. You took our precious child and threw him
Speaker 2: in the garbage. I will never forgive you. The god
Speaker 2: you pray to will never forgive you. End quote. Stan
Speaker 2: and Julie's decades long nightmare seemed to finally be coming
Speaker 2: to an end until earlier this year, when there was
Speaker 2: another bombshell development in this case. In late June of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, an appeals court throughout Pedro Hernandez's murder conviction.
Speaker 2: Their reasoning was that they found the judge had given
Speaker 2: the jury incorrect instructions. According to a legal expert who
Speaker 2: spoke to CBS, jurors sent a note that asked the
Speaker 2: judge a question. The issue was whether or not Pedro's
Speaker 2: first confession, the one that was made before police started videotaping,
Speaker 2: was voluntary or not. They asked the judge if the
Speaker 2: confession wasn't voluntary, would that effect the rest of the case,
Speaker 2: and the judge said no, that it would not. The
Speaker 2: appeals court found that that answer by the judge was wrong.
Speaker 2: One of Pedro's lawyer's, Harvey Fischbein, told The New York Times,
Speaker 2: that the ruling proved that Pedro was innocent. He suggested
Speaker 2: that DA should set Pedro free and focus on finding
Speaker 2: the real killer. New York City prosecutors announced in September
Speaker 2: they planned to petition the U. S. Supreme Court to
Speaker 2: restore Pedro's murder conviction. They argued that the decision by
Speaker 2: the appeals court raised substantial legal questions, but a judge
Speaker 2: recently ruled Pedro must be freed unless he is retried
Speaker 2: within a reasonable period, So right now this case is
Speaker 2: in limbo. On September sixteenth, twenty twenty five, the New
Speaker 2: York Post report of the Manhattan District Attorney's office has
Speaker 2: asked the Second U. S. Circuit Court of Appeals to
Speaker 2: wait to enforce their decision. According to The New York Post,
Speaker 2: but Pedro's lawyers are opposing this request for more time.
Speaker 2: So Pedro Hernandez's conviction has been overthrown, but for now
Speaker 2: he's still behind bars. Where does that lead the case?
Speaker 2: The evidence against Pedro Hernandez, in my opinion, is weak,
Speaker 2: especially considering how much more that jury's and the general
Speaker 2: public now know about false confessions now versus back then.
Speaker 2: Could detectives go back and try to build a case
Speaker 2: again against Jose Ramos. That's a weird situation as well,
Speaker 2: because while it seems as though he's a viable enough
Speaker 2: suspect to raise reasonable doubt in court, to my knowledge,
Speaker 2: there's not enough evidence, at least not anything that's been
Speaker 2: revealed publicly to bring him in and charge him. Either.
Speaker 2: Could it have been Jose Ramos, is there some piece
Speaker 2: of evidence against him that slipped through the cracks, or
Speaker 2: could one of the other suspects who aton encountered that
Speaker 2: morning in nineteen seventy nine, or someone else who has
Speaker 2: never been mentioned be responsible for his disappearance. One other
Speaker 2: thing that this case highlights is how many potential predators
Speaker 2: that that six year old boy passed in the two
Speaker 2: short blocks to his bus stop on that Friday morning.
Speaker 2: Maybe someone out there knows some of these people, and
Speaker 2: maybe that person will come forward. Aton's parents have had
Speaker 2: to relive that day again and again. But there's no
Speaker 2: statute of limitations on murder, So if you are out there,
Speaker 2: it is never too late to come forward and to
Speaker 2: help Aton's parents find answers. Eventually, after more than forty
Speaker 2: years in the Prince Street loft, Stan and Julie sold
Speaker 2: that apartment and moved to Hawaii to focus on spending
Speaker 2: time with their family, including their grandchildren. To this day,
Speaker 2: Aton pates his body has never been found. I'm Catherine Ta.
Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line
Speaker 2: is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced
Speaker 2: by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her
Speaker 2: research assistance and James Wheaton for legal review. Noah Camera
Speaker 2: mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song is by
Speaker 2: Ben Sale. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and l. C. Crowley.
Speaker 2: Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the
Speaker 2: iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you
Speaker 2: were interested in seeing documents and materials from the case.
Speaker 2: You can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod.
Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my
Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us
Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight
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Speaker 1: School of Humans