1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,921 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,041 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,321 Speaker 2: The morning of Friday, May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine 13 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,041 Speaker 2: started out like just another day for Julie Pate's and 14 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: the rest of her family. Her husband, stand a photographer, 15 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,321 Speaker 2: and her children, eight year old Shira, six year old Aton, 16 00:01:44,681 --> 00:01:47,561 Speaker 2: and two year old Ari. It was a busy morning. 17 00:01:48,081 --> 00:01:50,921 Speaker 2: Julie ran a daycare out of her soho loft at 18 00:01:50,921 --> 00:01:54,081 Speaker 2: one thirteen Prince Street in New York City. She was 19 00:01:54,161 --> 00:01:56,441 Speaker 2: getting her own kids ready for the day and at 20 00:01:56,441 --> 00:01:59,721 Speaker 2: the same time preparing for the influx of kids who 21 00:01:59,721 --> 00:02:03,201 Speaker 2: would be arriving soon. Shia didn't want to roll out 22 00:02:03,201 --> 00:02:07,081 Speaker 2: of bed, but Aton, who his family described as a sweet, 23 00:02:07,321 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: loving and friendly boy, was excited to start his school day. 24 00:02:12,281 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: Six year old Aton asked his mom if he could 25 00:02:15,001 --> 00:02:17,441 Speaker 2: walk the two short blocks to the school bus stop 26 00:02:17,441 --> 00:02:21,201 Speaker 2: alone for the very first time. He'd been asking his 27 00:02:21,321 --> 00:02:23,201 Speaker 2: parents all year if he could take the bus to 28 00:02:23,201 --> 00:02:26,761 Speaker 2: his school, PS three on Greenwich Street, and his mom 29 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,241 Speaker 2: and dad had always said no, But it was the 30 00:02:29,321 --> 00:02:31,841 Speaker 2: last few weeks of the school year, and so his 31 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,761 Speaker 2: mom said okay. In her book After Aton, the Missing 32 00:02:36,881 --> 00:02:41,881 Speaker 2: Childcase That Held America Captive, author Lisa Cohen detailed that 33 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,321 Speaker 2: morning for the Pates family. Julie got Shira and Aton dressed. 34 00:02:46,881 --> 00:02:50,081 Speaker 2: Aton was wearing blue pants with a blue corduroy jacket, 35 00:02:50,401 --> 00:02:53,441 Speaker 2: a T shirt with his light blue sneakers with fluorescent 36 00:02:53,481 --> 00:02:56,721 Speaker 2: green stripes on the side, and a future flight captain 37 00:02:56,801 --> 00:03:01,361 Speaker 2: pilot's cap. Julie was also packing for a trip. Some 38 00:03:01,561 --> 00:03:04,561 Speaker 2: friends had invited their family to come to their country 39 00:03:04,561 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: house for the weekend. Aton ate his breakfast toast and 40 00:03:08,361 --> 00:03:11,241 Speaker 2: chocolate milk and picked up his blue lunch bag with 41 00:03:11,241 --> 00:03:15,041 Speaker 2: white elephants. Julie later told the New York Times that 42 00:03:15,081 --> 00:03:18,161 Speaker 2: she remembers him stuffing toy trucks into his school bag. 43 00:03:19,201 --> 00:03:21,921 Speaker 2: Aton had a plan that day. He had a dollar 44 00:03:22,001 --> 00:03:25,001 Speaker 2: in his pocket, which a neighborhood handyman had given him 45 00:03:25,041 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: the day before when Aton helped him in his workshop. 46 00:03:28,761 --> 00:03:31,321 Speaker 2: Aton was going to stop at the corner bodega at 47 00:03:31,321 --> 00:03:34,961 Speaker 2: Prince and West Broadway and by a soda before getting 48 00:03:35,001 --> 00:03:38,481 Speaker 2: on the bus. The kids left the house just before 49 00:03:38,561 --> 00:03:43,721 Speaker 2: eight am. Julie followed Aton downstairs down the three floor walk. 50 00:03:44,561 --> 00:03:47,321 Speaker 2: At the time, Julie told police she could see other 51 00:03:47,401 --> 00:03:50,761 Speaker 2: kids and parents walking toward the bus stop, and she 52 00:03:50,921 --> 00:03:54,601 Speaker 2: kissed her son goodbye as she watched him walk down 53 00:03:54,641 --> 00:03:58,241 Speaker 2: the street. Before going back upstairs, she told herself that 54 00:03:58,321 --> 00:04:01,841 Speaker 2: it was only two blocks. This was the last time 55 00:04:02,001 --> 00:04:07,001 Speaker 2: that Julie ever saw her son. This case became a 56 00:04:07,081 --> 00:04:09,441 Speaker 2: huge story, not just in New York, but in the 57 00:04:09,561 --> 00:04:13,521 Speaker 2: entire country. Aton Pates became the literal poster child for 58 00:04:13,601 --> 00:04:16,921 Speaker 2: missing children, and Julie and her husbands stand were the 59 00:04:16,961 --> 00:04:21,081 Speaker 2: living embodiment of every parent's worst nightmare. What if your 60 00:04:21,161 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 2: child disappeared one day and you never found out what 61 00:04:24,841 --> 00:04:28,601 Speaker 2: really happened to them. I've wanted to talk about this 62 00:04:28,681 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 2: case for a long time. I live in New York City, 63 00:04:32,001 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 2: just a couple of blocks from Aton's house. This is 64 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,681 Speaker 2: a case that has, for lack of a better phrase, 65 00:04:38,121 --> 00:04:41,801 Speaker 2: taken more tortuous twists and turns for these parents than 66 00:04:41,961 --> 00:04:46,401 Speaker 2: any other case I've ever in investigated or researched. There 67 00:04:46,481 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: is so much information out there about this case, a 68 00:04:49,921 --> 00:04:52,681 Speaker 2: lot of it has never been made public in news reports, 69 00:04:53,401 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 2: and forty six years later, this case is still active. 70 00:05:00,641 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past seven years of making 71 00:05:03,761 --> 00:05:07,161 Speaker 2: my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned that there's 72 00:05:07,241 --> 00:05:10,721 Speaker 2: no such thing as a small town where murder never happens. 73 00:05:11,361 --> 00:05:14,321 Speaker 2: I have received hundreds of messages from people all around 74 00:05:14,361 --> 00:05:17,361 Speaker 2: the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's 75 00:05:17,401 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 2: affected them, their families, and their communities. If you have 76 00:05:21,721 --> 00:05:23,721 Speaker 2: a case you'd like me and my team to look into, 77 00:05:24,121 --> 00:05:25,921 Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone 78 00:05:25,961 --> 00:05:29,521 Speaker 2: Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six 79 00:05:29,721 --> 00:05:33,401 Speaker 2: one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four 80 00:05:33,721 --> 00:05:36,841 Speaker 2: six one four five, or you can send us a 81 00:05:36,881 --> 00:05:41,681 Speaker 2: message on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod. This is Helen 82 00:05:41,721 --> 00:06:27,561 Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line. When Aton didn't come back from school 83 00:06:27,641 --> 00:06:30,921 Speaker 2: at around three point thirty pm. His mother, Julie, was worried. 84 00:06:31,441 --> 00:06:34,121 Speaker 2: She called the school, She called friends, no one had 85 00:06:34,121 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: seen it. Julie found out later that Aton hadn't made 86 00:06:37,761 --> 00:06:40,601 Speaker 2: it at all to school that day. In fact, the 87 00:06:40,681 --> 00:06:43,681 Speaker 2: bus driver hadn't seen him board the bus, and parents 88 00:06:43,721 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: and kids who police interviewed later, ones who knew Aton 89 00:06:47,681 --> 00:06:51,281 Speaker 2: said they hadn't seen him waiting for the bus. Julie 90 00:06:51,321 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: was frantic. She called her husband, Stan, who was uptown 91 00:06:54,481 --> 00:06:58,441 Speaker 2: on a photoshoot. He immediately came home, and police quickly 92 00:06:58,521 --> 00:07:04,641 Speaker 2: began searching for Aton. They canvassed the entire neighborhood. Two detectives, 93 00:07:04,761 --> 00:07:08,321 Speaker 2: Detective Ianello and Detective Bill Butler, who both worked the 94 00:07:08,321 --> 00:07:11,561 Speaker 2: case on the first day, told forty eight Hours that 95 00:07:11,601 --> 00:07:15,361 Speaker 2: the case deeply affected them. They were both fathers, and 96 00:07:15,521 --> 00:07:18,321 Speaker 2: when they looked at photos of Aton, they saw their 97 00:07:18,361 --> 00:07:23,281 Speaker 2: own children. In nineteen eighty six, Bill Butler actually took 98 00:07:23,321 --> 00:07:26,881 Speaker 2: his own life. According to forty eight Hours, Some people 99 00:07:26,921 --> 00:07:29,881 Speaker 2: believed that his frustration over the lack of progress in 100 00:07:29,921 --> 00:07:35,361 Speaker 2: the Aton Pates case contributed to his decision. Police got 101 00:07:35,401 --> 00:07:38,881 Speaker 2: a picture from Stan, which became the iconic photo that 102 00:07:38,921 --> 00:07:41,681 Speaker 2: people later saw on posters all over New York City 103 00:07:42,081 --> 00:07:46,001 Speaker 2: and later on milk cart all across the country. The 104 00:07:46,081 --> 00:07:50,161 Speaker 2: picture showed Aton, six years old, blonde hair and blue eyes, 105 00:07:50,401 --> 00:07:54,281 Speaker 2: weighing fifty pounds, last seen at eight a m. At 106 00:07:54,281 --> 00:07:59,481 Speaker 2: Prince and Wooster Street, headed for the bus stop. Soho 107 00:07:59,641 --> 00:08:02,481 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy nine was a very different place than 108 00:08:02,521 --> 00:08:05,201 Speaker 2: it is today. It was much grittier, and New York 109 00:08:05,241 --> 00:08:08,441 Speaker 2: City in general had a much higher crime rate back then. 110 00:08:08,881 --> 00:08:12,161 Speaker 2: At the same time, Aton and his family lived in 111 00:08:12,201 --> 00:08:15,881 Speaker 2: a close knit artistic community, and Julie and Stan had 112 00:08:15,881 --> 00:08:19,041 Speaker 2: been a part of the artistic community that built the neighborhood. 113 00:08:19,841 --> 00:08:23,201 Speaker 2: They renovated a twenty one hundred square foot loft, which 114 00:08:23,281 --> 00:08:25,281 Speaker 2: was pretty raw when they moved in, since most of 115 00:08:25,281 --> 00:08:28,481 Speaker 2: the building was commercial space. The place had no water 116 00:08:28,641 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: or electricity at first, so they built everything themselves. Stan 117 00:08:32,961 --> 00:08:35,841 Speaker 2: put in the floors himself and did all the renovations. 118 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: He built sleep lofts for the kids. Even though Soho 119 00:08:40,441 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 2: had more crime back then, that area had tons of 120 00:08:44,001 --> 00:08:48,121 Speaker 2: artists and everyone kind of knew everyone else. Famous artists 121 00:08:48,201 --> 00:08:51,441 Speaker 2: like Philip Glass and Chuck Close were Julian Stan's neighbors, 122 00:08:51,841 --> 00:08:56,481 Speaker 2: and everyone chipped in to help search for Aton. Volunteers 123 00:08:56,560 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: formed the Aton Pates Action Committee. Fliers of Aton's face 124 00:09:00,841 --> 00:09:05,401 Speaker 2: were posted everywhere while Stan and Julie called friends and 125 00:09:05,441 --> 00:09:08,721 Speaker 2: walked around the neighborhood looking for Aton. At some point, 126 00:09:08,761 --> 00:09:12,121 Speaker 2: a woman named Susan, who sometimes walked Aton to school 127 00:09:12,241 --> 00:09:14,841 Speaker 2: during the nineteen seventy nine school bus strike that it 128 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,441 Speaker 2: ended ten days earlier, showed up at Stan and Julie's loft. 129 00:09:18,961 --> 00:09:21,481 Speaker 2: She was planning to get their keys, since she was 130 00:09:21,521 --> 00:09:24,081 Speaker 2: supposed to be house sitting that weekend while the family 131 00:09:24,081 --> 00:09:26,721 Speaker 2: went to the country, but of course that trip was 132 00:09:26,761 --> 00:09:31,081 Speaker 2: now canceled. In New York City and eventually all across 133 00:09:31,121 --> 00:09:36,121 Speaker 2: the country, this story became big news, and unfortunately, not 134 00:09:36,321 --> 00:09:39,121 Speaker 2: all of the people who contacted the family and police 135 00:09:39,161 --> 00:09:43,521 Speaker 2: with tips were genuine or had good intentions. Julie and 136 00:09:43,521 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 2: Stan set up a call center in their home. They 137 00:09:46,681 --> 00:09:51,001 Speaker 2: talked to multiple people who demanded thousands of dollars for information. 138 00:09:52,001 --> 00:09:54,801 Speaker 2: A few weeks after Aton disappeared, there was a news 139 00:09:54,841 --> 00:09:59,361 Speaker 2: story about Aton potentially being alive in Massachusetts. Later, it 140 00:09:59,401 --> 00:10:02,441 Speaker 2: came out the tipster wanted one thousand dollars in reward 141 00:10:02,441 --> 00:10:06,121 Speaker 2: money for giving this information. To journalists. The information turned 142 00:10:06,161 --> 00:10:09,841 Speaker 2: out to be bogus, and the tipster had called more 143 00:10:09,881 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: than one publication to try to get money out of them. 144 00:10:13,641 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: There were also rumors that Stan and Julie had somehow 145 00:10:16,201 --> 00:10:19,161 Speaker 2: been involved, or that they did the whole thing as 146 00:10:19,201 --> 00:10:22,601 Speaker 2: some kind of publicity stunt. Now there was zero evidence 147 00:10:22,641 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: for that, but that didn't stop some people from gossiping 148 00:10:25,921 --> 00:10:30,561 Speaker 2: and from ripping down missing posters. Even some police officers 149 00:10:30,641 --> 00:10:34,241 Speaker 2: were suspicious of Aton's parents. One of the officers made 150 00:10:34,241 --> 00:10:37,641 Speaker 2: the comment to investigators in twenty twelve that he had 151 00:10:37,681 --> 00:10:40,601 Speaker 2: been a little bit suspicious of Stan because, in his opinion, 152 00:10:41,041 --> 00:10:45,041 Speaker 2: Stan hadn't immediately started helping in the search. Instead, he 153 00:10:45,161 --> 00:10:48,921 Speaker 2: was working on his computer. As I read about this case, 154 00:10:49,121 --> 00:10:51,921 Speaker 2: I just could not imagine what Stan and Julie must 155 00:10:51,921 --> 00:10:54,481 Speaker 2: have been going through. Not only were they dealing with 156 00:10:54,601 --> 00:10:59,321 Speaker 2: reporters basically stalking them, hanging out outside their doors, but 157 00:10:59,361 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: they had to deal with all these people making comments, 158 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:07,241 Speaker 2: especially to Julie, statements implying that it was basically her fault. 159 00:11:08,481 --> 00:11:12,281 Speaker 2: The NYPD's first Precinct, which covers all of Lower Manhattan 160 00:11:12,401 --> 00:11:16,161 Speaker 2: south of Houston Street, continued to work the case. We 161 00:11:16,161 --> 00:11:18,881 Speaker 2: were able to access a lot of information about their 162 00:11:18,881 --> 00:11:23,121 Speaker 2: investigation through FOYA, but most of what I saw focused 163 00:11:23,161 --> 00:11:27,961 Speaker 2: on the police's later investigation starting in twenty twelve. From 164 00:11:28,001 --> 00:11:31,841 Speaker 2: those files we were able to see police went back 165 00:11:31,921 --> 00:11:34,361 Speaker 2: and talked to a lot of the officers who worked 166 00:11:34,361 --> 00:11:39,361 Speaker 2: the initial scene. Police canvass the entire area. They had 167 00:11:39,441 --> 00:11:43,641 Speaker 2: officers crawling into drain pipes, climbing into freezers, into basement 168 00:11:44,001 --> 00:11:47,881 Speaker 2: and crawl spaces. Eventually, they went down to city Hall 169 00:11:47,961 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: to get the plans for every single building in the area, 170 00:11:50,961 --> 00:11:54,521 Speaker 2: including a lot of empty commercial properties, so that they 171 00:11:54,521 --> 00:11:59,281 Speaker 2: could search everywhere. Everyone had a theory. Some people wondered 172 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,841 Speaker 2: if it was possible that Aton missed the bus and 173 00:12:01,881 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: walked back home. Since he was too short to reach 174 00:12:05,361 --> 00:12:11,441 Speaker 2: the buzzer, maybe he went somewhere else. Police brought in bloodhounds, 175 00:12:11,521 --> 00:12:15,041 Speaker 2: who alerted near the Patess loft. The dog stopped at 176 00:12:15,121 --> 00:12:18,401 Speaker 2: Jim Lumber, three blocks away on Spring Street. This was 177 00:12:18,441 --> 00:12:21,521 Speaker 2: a place that Aton had stopped by on several occasions, 178 00:12:21,841 --> 00:12:25,001 Speaker 2: but the dogs got no further. The owner of the 179 00:12:25,041 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 2: store told The New York Times that he had seen 180 00:12:27,641 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 2: Aton and another boy in the dumpster pulling out scraps 181 00:12:31,161 --> 00:12:33,681 Speaker 2: of Wood. He thought that he saw them that day 182 00:12:33,881 --> 00:12:36,761 Speaker 2: after school May twenty fifth, at around four thirty or 183 00:12:36,761 --> 00:12:40,881 Speaker 2: five pm, but later admitted he had probably been wrong 184 00:12:41,001 --> 00:12:45,401 Speaker 2: about the day. Weeks and months passed, there was no 185 00:12:45,521 --> 00:12:49,161 Speaker 2: ransom note or any sign of Aton. According to Lisa 186 00:12:49,201 --> 00:12:53,761 Speaker 2: Cohen's book, police even used hypnosis on Julie to help 187 00:12:53,801 --> 00:12:57,361 Speaker 2: her recall every single detail of what happened the morning 188 00:12:57,401 --> 00:13:02,641 Speaker 2: her son vanished. Aton's father, Stan started to consider one 189 00:13:02,681 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 2: of two scenarios. A very sad woman desperate for a 190 00:13:06,361 --> 00:13:09,561 Speaker 2: child of her own had kidnapped Aton to raise him. 191 00:13:09,921 --> 00:13:13,081 Speaker 2: In that theory, the kidnapper would raise Aton and keep 192 00:13:13,121 --> 00:13:17,001 Speaker 2: him safe. Stan's other theory was that a stranger had 193 00:13:17,041 --> 00:13:22,601 Speaker 2: taken Aton and killed him. Police followed up on leeds 194 00:13:22,681 --> 00:13:26,641 Speaker 2: all over the world, even decades later, when they interviewed 195 00:13:26,681 --> 00:13:30,081 Speaker 2: and ultimately discounted someone in Europe who claimed to be Aton. 196 00:13:31,121 --> 00:13:33,801 Speaker 2: Several other people called and claimed to be Stan and 197 00:13:33,881 --> 00:13:37,361 Speaker 2: Julie's son as an adult as the years passed, but 198 00:13:37,561 --> 00:13:42,081 Speaker 2: none of the leads or sightings ever checked out. Time 199 00:13:42,121 --> 00:13:44,841 Speaker 2: went by, as the neighbor he had gentrified, and an 200 00:13:44,961 --> 00:13:48,001 Speaker 2: upscale eyeglass store moved to the spot where the Bodega 201 00:13:48,081 --> 00:13:51,561 Speaker 2: used to be. Stan and Julie stayed put. They wanted 202 00:13:51,601 --> 00:13:54,441 Speaker 2: to be in the same place in case, by some miracle, 203 00:13:54,761 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: Aton came home, though they did tell reporters over the 204 00:13:58,001 --> 00:14:03,841 Speaker 2: years they'd accepted this would probably never happen. According to 205 00:14:03,881 --> 00:14:06,521 Speaker 2: forty eight Hours, Over the years, there were a lot 206 00:14:06,561 --> 00:14:09,681 Speaker 2: of tips submitted to police claiming that Aton had been 207 00:14:09,681 --> 00:14:13,321 Speaker 2: stolen by a Colton Westchester, or had been trafficked, or 208 00:14:13,641 --> 00:14:17,521 Speaker 2: was living under another name in Europe. In nineteen eighty three, 209 00:14:17,801 --> 00:14:20,881 Speaker 2: President Ronald Reagan designated May twenty fifth, the day that 210 00:14:20,921 --> 00:14:25,121 Speaker 2: Aton went missing, as National Missing Children's Day. In nineteen 211 00:14:25,161 --> 00:14:28,481 Speaker 2: eighty five, the case was passed to assistant US Attorney 212 00:14:28,521 --> 00:14:34,121 Speaker 2: Stuart Grebois, and soon he publicly identified as suspect a 213 00:14:34,161 --> 00:14:50,241 Speaker 2: convicted child molester named Jose Antonio Ramos. Assisting US attorney 214 00:14:50,281 --> 00:14:54,201 Speaker 2: Stuart Grabois identified Jose Ramos as a suspect in Aton 215 00:14:54,241 --> 00:14:57,761 Speaker 2: Pates's case in nineteen eighty five, nearly six years after 216 00:14:58,081 --> 00:15:02,121 Speaker 2: Aton went missing, Jose was being held in Pennsylvania on 217 00:15:02,161 --> 00:15:06,921 Speaker 2: suspicion of child molestation. Stuart Grabois learned that multiple boys 218 00:15:06,961 --> 00:15:09,681 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two had accused Jose of trying to 219 00:15:09,721 --> 00:15:11,681 Speaker 2: get them to come into a drain pipe with him. 220 00:15:12,521 --> 00:15:15,721 Speaker 2: Stuart Grabois told forty eight Hours that he and the 221 00:15:15,761 --> 00:15:19,401 Speaker 2: FBI had learned that Jose Ramos traveled the country in 222 00:15:19,441 --> 00:15:23,641 Speaker 2: a converted school bus and lured children in using matchbox 223 00:15:23,721 --> 00:15:28,481 Speaker 2: cars and other toys and then molested them. Not only that, 224 00:15:28,961 --> 00:15:32,441 Speaker 2: but Jose had a connection to the Pates family. At 225 00:15:32,481 --> 00:15:36,521 Speaker 2: the time of Aton's disappearance. Jose had been dating their 226 00:15:36,601 --> 00:15:40,841 Speaker 2: sometimes house sitter, Susan, the woman who had walked Aton 227 00:15:40,921 --> 00:15:44,401 Speaker 2: to school during that bus strike. It turned out that 228 00:15:44,481 --> 00:15:48,281 Speaker 2: people in Aton's building knew Jose, but they knew him 229 00:15:48,321 --> 00:15:52,841 Speaker 2: by another name, Michael, and Michael had also spent time 230 00:15:52,921 --> 00:15:56,921 Speaker 2: with Susan's son, Barrett in nineteen seventy nine. Barrett was 231 00:15:56,921 --> 00:15:59,201 Speaker 2: four years old at the time when Aton went missing. 232 00:16:00,081 --> 00:16:04,561 Speaker 2: This seemed like a promising lead. Stuart Grabois arranged to 233 00:16:04,561 --> 00:16:07,601 Speaker 2: be deputized in Pennsylvania so that he could work on 234 00:16:07,681 --> 00:16:11,241 Speaker 2: prosecuting Jose Ramos for the charges there and to interview 235 00:16:11,281 --> 00:16:16,281 Speaker 2: him about any possible involvement in Aton's case. Jose Ramos 236 00:16:16,321 --> 00:16:18,761 Speaker 2: admitted that he took a boy back up to his 237 00:16:18,841 --> 00:16:22,121 Speaker 2: apartment to rape him on the day that Aton disappeared. 238 00:16:23,281 --> 00:16:26,641 Speaker 2: At the time, Jose Ramos was staying in an apartment 239 00:16:26,681 --> 00:16:29,881 Speaker 2: in the East Village on East thirteenth Street. He said 240 00:16:29,881 --> 00:16:32,961 Speaker 2: that on the day Aton disappeared, he was milling around 241 00:16:33,041 --> 00:16:35,881 Speaker 2: Washington Square Park. He said that he saw a boy 242 00:16:36,041 --> 00:16:40,161 Speaker 2: playing handball. Jose said he was ninety percent sure that 243 00:16:40,241 --> 00:16:42,921 Speaker 2: this was the boy he saw on TV, though he 244 00:16:43,001 --> 00:16:46,561 Speaker 2: never mentioned by his real name. Jose said the boy 245 00:16:46,681 --> 00:16:49,161 Speaker 2: told him his name was Jimmy and that he had 246 00:16:49,201 --> 00:16:53,521 Speaker 2: an aunt living in Washington Heights. Jose said he lured 247 00:16:53,521 --> 00:16:56,241 Speaker 2: the boy up to his apartment, gave him apple juice, 248 00:16:56,281 --> 00:16:58,801 Speaker 2: and started to feel around his legs. He said at 249 00:16:58,841 --> 00:17:02,321 Speaker 2: some point the boy got uncomfortable. Then Jose claimed that 250 00:17:02,361 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: he lifted the boy up and tried to have sex 251 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,641 Speaker 2: with him, but that the boy kept saying no, he 252 00:17:07,681 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 2: didn't want to do that. Jose claimed that the boys 253 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,761 Speaker 2: said he needed to go to school, and then Jose 254 00:17:15,001 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: said he stopped assaulting him and walked out of the 255 00:17:18,001 --> 00:17:21,121 Speaker 2: apartment with him. He said they got into a taxi 256 00:17:21,161 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 2: to go back to Soho, but that at some point 257 00:17:23,441 --> 00:17:25,721 Speaker 2: the boy changed his mind and said he wanted to 258 00:17:25,761 --> 00:17:30,041 Speaker 2: go uptown to Washington Heights to visit that aunt. Jose 259 00:17:30,281 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 2: claimed that he bought the boy a subway token and 260 00:17:33,801 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: left him to get on the train at the sixth 261 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:41,561 Speaker 2: Avenue train station, waving goodbye as he left. Investigators were 262 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,401 Speaker 2: not buying this story. They suspense that Jose was lying. Logistically, 263 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,441 Speaker 2: in my opinion, the Washington Square Park meeting does not 264 00:17:50,641 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: seem to make a lot of sense. Aton was very 265 00:17:54,121 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 2: clearly headed to school when he left home. Washington Square 266 00:17:57,681 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 2: Park is several blocks north of there. But I also 267 00:18:01,241 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 2: think that it could be more plausible Jose could have 268 00:18:04,201 --> 00:18:08,281 Speaker 2: encountered Aton back near his parents' apartment. He did hang 269 00:18:08,321 --> 00:18:11,721 Speaker 2: out at the Pate's apartment building with Susan. She was 270 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,561 Speaker 2: due to come to the Pates loft that day to 271 00:18:14,561 --> 00:18:18,401 Speaker 2: get the keys to their apartment. Even though Jose had 272 00:18:18,441 --> 00:18:23,001 Speaker 2: sketchy details and didn't use Aton's name, Stuart Grabois was 273 00:18:23,041 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 2: convinced that this was the guy who took Aton, and 274 00:18:26,441 --> 00:18:30,761 Speaker 2: he was convinced of that for decades. Stuart Grabois had 275 00:18:30,801 --> 00:18:34,561 Speaker 2: an informant from inside the prison. Much later, this jail 276 00:18:34,601 --> 00:18:37,801 Speaker 2: house informant testified in court that while he and Jose 277 00:18:37,961 --> 00:18:41,321 Speaker 2: Ramos were cellmates, that Jose confessed to him that he 278 00:18:41,361 --> 00:18:46,321 Speaker 2: had molested and murdered Aton. The informant, Jeffrey Rothschild, said 279 00:18:46,481 --> 00:18:49,641 Speaker 2: Jose told Aton that what they were doing was good. 280 00:18:50,601 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: Jeffrey claimed that he asked Jose if Aton was dead. 281 00:18:54,201 --> 00:18:57,321 Speaker 2: He said Jose responded, quote, what do you think. Of 282 00:18:57,361 --> 00:19:00,441 Speaker 2: course he's dead, but they'll never find a body. There's 283 00:19:00,441 --> 00:19:06,601 Speaker 2: no proof. End quote. In nineteen eighty two, Jose Ramos 284 00:19:06,641 --> 00:19:09,681 Speaker 2: was living on the streets in a drain pipe. Inside 285 00:19:09,721 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 2: that drain pipe, according to The New York Post, he 286 00:19:12,201 --> 00:19:16,201 Speaker 2: had religious items, a mattress, and a bunch of children's toys. 287 00:19:17,041 --> 00:19:20,801 Speaker 2: That year, Jose was arrested and charged in connection with 288 00:19:20,921 --> 00:19:24,121 Speaker 2: trying to lure two young boys into his makeshift home. 289 00:19:24,881 --> 00:19:29,001 Speaker 2: During the course of that investigation, police found several photos 290 00:19:29,041 --> 00:19:32,441 Speaker 2: of young boys, some in front of X rated theaters 291 00:19:32,481 --> 00:19:36,961 Speaker 2: in Times Square, others in the drain pipe, including one 292 00:19:37,041 --> 00:19:40,881 Speaker 2: young boy with blonde hair that police said resembled Aton. 293 00:19:42,241 --> 00:19:46,041 Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty eight, awfording to the book, Stuart Grabois 294 00:19:46,201 --> 00:19:50,481 Speaker 2: told Stan Pates about his theory that Jose Ramos had 295 00:19:50,601 --> 00:19:55,681 Speaker 2: molested and killed Aton. Stan had to absorb the horrific 296 00:19:55,801 --> 00:19:59,721 Speaker 2: reality that a man charged with luring young boys into 297 00:19:59,761 --> 00:20:02,761 Speaker 2: a drain pipe might have taken his son and to 298 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 2: consider the implications of what he might have done with him. 299 00:20:07,521 --> 00:20:10,961 Speaker 2: Stuart Grabois and his team questioned Stan, Julie, and a 300 00:20:11,001 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 2: lot of their neighbors about their recollections of Jose and 301 00:20:14,001 --> 00:20:19,041 Speaker 2: Susan and susan son. Stuart Grabois actually interviewed Susan's son, 302 00:20:19,361 --> 00:20:21,481 Speaker 2: who again was four years old at the time of 303 00:20:21,521 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 2: Aton's disappearance. The son told Stuart Grabois that Jose had 304 00:20:26,441 --> 00:20:30,681 Speaker 2: touched him inappropriately. Back then, though the statute of limitations 305 00:20:30,681 --> 00:20:34,121 Speaker 2: on child molestation was only nine years so a lot 306 00:20:34,161 --> 00:20:37,801 Speaker 2: of the allegations against Jose Ramos could not be prosecuted. 307 00:20:40,441 --> 00:20:44,961 Speaker 2: Despite Stuart Graboa's suspicions and the FBI helping with the investigation, 308 00:20:45,601 --> 00:20:51,121 Speaker 2: investigators had no physical evidence and no witnesses. Jose's confession 309 00:20:51,321 --> 00:20:55,001 Speaker 2: did have details about Aton having fluorescent stripes on his 310 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 2: tennis shoes, but those details were public at that point. 311 00:20:58,201 --> 00:21:01,761 Speaker 2: They were all over missing posters, and other details didn't 312 00:21:01,761 --> 00:21:05,561 Speaker 2: seem to match. For example, Jose said the boy he 313 00:21:05,601 --> 00:21:09,721 Speaker 2: assaulted was wearing a Western belt and he never mentioned 314 00:21:09,761 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 2: Aton by name. Jose Ramos did get a prison sentence 315 00:21:14,161 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, after being convicted of sexually assaulting an eight 316 00:21:17,681 --> 00:21:21,281 Speaker 2: year old boy there, but in the end, Jose was 317 00:21:21,321 --> 00:21:25,721 Speaker 2: never charged in connection with Aton's abduction. Stan and Julie 318 00:21:25,721 --> 00:21:30,521 Speaker 2: were understandably devastated at this turn of events. The district 319 00:21:30,561 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: attorney at the time, Robert Morgenthal, just never felt that 320 00:21:34,121 --> 00:21:37,881 Speaker 2: there was enough evidence to prosecute. In two thousand, Stan 321 00:21:38,001 --> 00:21:40,561 Speaker 2: and Julie started to explore the idea of launching a 322 00:21:40,601 --> 00:21:44,481 Speaker 2: civil wrongful death lawsuit against Jose Ramos. In two thousand 323 00:21:44,521 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: and four, they filed that suit. Julie went through the 324 00:21:48,321 --> 00:21:52,201 Speaker 2: very painful emotional process of having Aton legally declared dead 325 00:21:52,241 --> 00:21:54,241 Speaker 2: in two thousand and one so that they would be 326 00:21:54,281 --> 00:21:57,961 Speaker 2: able to file the lawsuit. They won a two million 327 00:21:58,001 --> 00:22:00,961 Speaker 2: dollar judgment in that case, but they were never paid. 328 00:22:01,721 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 2: Jose Ramos ended up serving twenty seven years in prison 329 00:22:05,161 --> 00:22:07,441 Speaker 2: in total for the assault on the eight year old 330 00:22:07,761 --> 00:22:10,681 Speaker 2: and a second offense with a child. He was released 331 00:22:10,721 --> 00:22:17,481 Speaker 2: on November seventh, twenty twelve. For years this case went quiet, Stan, 332 00:22:17,721 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 2: Julie and their children tried to move on with their lives. 333 00:22:21,201 --> 00:22:24,441 Speaker 2: Aton's case struck fears into the heart of families in 334 00:22:24,481 --> 00:22:27,561 Speaker 2: the city and around the country, and made families much 335 00:22:27,601 --> 00:22:31,201 Speaker 2: more aware of stranger danger. Over the years, Stan and 336 00:22:31,281 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: Julie became advocates for missing children. They campaigned for laws 337 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,801 Speaker 2: that would make it easier and faster for law enforcement 338 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,361 Speaker 2: agencies to share information about missing children, and they never 339 00:22:41,481 --> 00:22:46,601 Speaker 2: gave up. Stan gods involved in Manhattan's District attorney races, 340 00:22:47,121 --> 00:22:52,361 Speaker 2: and in twenty ten he persuaded the new district Attorney, 341 00:22:52,601 --> 00:22:55,321 Speaker 2: Cyrus Vance Junior, to take another look at the case, 342 00:22:56,001 --> 00:23:01,001 Speaker 2: which investigators did, and then suddenly, in twenty twelve, there 343 00:23:01,121 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 2: was a massive break in the case and once again 344 00:23:05,201 --> 00:23:11,001 Speaker 2: Aton Pates made headlines. News broke that FBI investigators were 345 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,521 Speaker 2: raiding a soho basement at one twenty seven B Prince Street, 346 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,481 Speaker 2: where Aton's sister had once attended daycare. They were looking 347 00:23:19,521 --> 00:23:33,441 Speaker 2: for blood and human remains. In twenty twelve, thirty three 348 00:23:33,521 --> 00:23:37,401 Speaker 2: years after Aton Pates disappeared during a short two block 349 00:23:37,481 --> 00:23:41,321 Speaker 2: walk to the school bus stop, the FBI started searching 350 00:23:41,441 --> 00:23:44,801 Speaker 2: the basement of a building near where he lived, the 351 00:23:44,881 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 2: same building that once housed his sister's daycare. The New 352 00:23:49,001 --> 00:23:51,401 Speaker 2: York Post interviewed some of the parents who had taken 353 00:23:51,401 --> 00:23:54,521 Speaker 2: their children there. There were around thirteen kids who played 354 00:23:54,561 --> 00:23:59,721 Speaker 2: there regularly, including Aton and his sister Shira. It turned 355 00:23:59,761 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: out they suspected the handyman who had done work at 356 00:24:02,601 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 2: the daycare. His name was othaneil Miller, and he was 357 00:24:06,201 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 2: actually the same handyman who had also done work for 358 00:24:09,441 --> 00:24:13,161 Speaker 2: Stan and Julie, according to forty eight Hours, and Othan 359 00:24:13,161 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 2: neil Miller was the person who paid Aton a dollar 360 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,041 Speaker 2: the day before for helping him with a task in 361 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,001 Speaker 2: his workshop, the same dollar that Aton so proudly carried 362 00:24:23,041 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 2: to the bus stop on the day he went missing. 363 00:24:26,281 --> 00:24:30,441 Speaker 2: Authorities obtained a search warrant after Othniel's ex wife told 364 00:24:30,561 --> 00:24:33,281 Speaker 2: law enforcement that he raped his ten year old niece. 365 00:24:33,401 --> 00:24:38,441 Speaker 2: A few years after Aton's disappearance, Othnil's attorneys and family 366 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,881 Speaker 2: said he had cooperated with police since the very beginning 367 00:24:42,281 --> 00:24:45,001 Speaker 2: and that he had nothing to do with aton subduction. 368 00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:49,161 Speaker 2: The New York Post reported that back in nineteen seventy nine, 369 00:24:49,601 --> 00:24:54,321 Speaker 2: investigators had noticed freshly poured concrete in Othneil's workshop, but 370 00:24:54,401 --> 00:24:58,481 Speaker 2: apparently police decided not to dig up the concrete because 371 00:24:58,601 --> 00:25:00,841 Speaker 2: they were told they would have to pay for repairs. 372 00:25:01,401 --> 00:25:05,001 Speaker 2: A local artist, Steve Cosma, told the Post that the 373 00:25:05,041 --> 00:25:09,001 Speaker 2: workshop in the building looked like kind of a labyrinth, saying, quote, 374 00:25:09,161 --> 00:25:11,921 Speaker 2: every time I went down there, there was a different wall. 375 00:25:12,521 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 2: It was a maze. Othaniil probably put in some of 376 00:25:15,921 --> 00:25:20,161 Speaker 2: those walls end quote. During the search in twenty twelve, 377 00:25:20,481 --> 00:25:24,601 Speaker 2: a cadaver dog alerted to possible human remains, and police 378 00:25:24,641 --> 00:25:28,881 Speaker 2: did dig up the concrete. Also, according to WNBCTV News, 379 00:25:29,241 --> 00:25:32,121 Speaker 2: police were examining what they called a stain of interest 380 00:25:32,201 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 2: on a piece of drywall. Later it was reported the 381 00:25:35,441 --> 00:25:41,001 Speaker 2: stain tested negative for blood. The NYPD and FBI stayed 382 00:25:41,001 --> 00:25:44,201 Speaker 2: down there a long time. They sprayed lumino, they did 383 00:25:44,201 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 2: other testing. They kept digging, and they found bones. But 384 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,161 Speaker 2: the bones found under the concrete of the old daycare 385 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,761 Speaker 2: that was just one block away from where Aton Pates 386 00:25:56,761 --> 00:26:00,001 Speaker 2: had lived with his family, turned out to be animal bones, 387 00:26:00,641 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: which sources told NBC News actually came from Chinese takeout containers, 388 00:26:06,481 --> 00:26:11,441 Speaker 2: another dead end. NBC also reported that investigators questioned a 389 00:26:11,481 --> 00:26:14,441 Speaker 2: man who once worked with Othanil Miller named Jesse Snell. 390 00:26:15,321 --> 00:26:18,841 Speaker 2: He was reportedly seen at the SOHO building the day 391 00:26:18,921 --> 00:26:23,321 Speaker 2: that Aton vanished. But in the end, investigators found nothing 392 00:26:23,361 --> 00:26:27,481 Speaker 2: of evidentiary value, and neither Othnil nor anyone else they 393 00:26:27,601 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 2: questioned in connection with that basement where Aton had played 394 00:26:30,921 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: were ever charged, but the headlines about the case brought 395 00:26:34,881 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 2: forward more tips, including one that would massively change the 396 00:26:38,881 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: direction of the case and focus police on yet another suspect. 397 00:26:44,441 --> 00:26:47,041 Speaker 2: The brother in law of a man named Pedro Hernandez 398 00:26:47,121 --> 00:26:50,961 Speaker 2: contacted police. Pedro was eighteen years old at the time 399 00:26:50,961 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 2: when Aton disappeared. He had been working at that corner 400 00:26:54,201 --> 00:26:57,321 Speaker 2: bodega at Prince in West Broadway, right by the bus 401 00:26:57,321 --> 00:27:01,441 Speaker 2: stop where Aton planned to stop, and by soda. Shortly 402 00:27:01,481 --> 00:27:04,921 Speaker 2: after Aton disappeared, Pedro had left the area and moved 403 00:27:04,921 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 2: back home to New Jersey. Over the years, he had 404 00:27:07,961 --> 00:27:11,041 Speaker 2: gotten married and had children. The brother in law told 405 00:27:11,041 --> 00:27:14,441 Speaker 2: police that back in the early eighties, Pedro made remarks 406 00:27:14,481 --> 00:27:17,481 Speaker 2: in a church group about having killed a child in 407 00:27:17,521 --> 00:27:22,201 Speaker 2: New York City. Pedro's sister and another church member confirmed 408 00:27:22,561 --> 00:27:25,281 Speaker 2: that Pedro had commented in this group retreat in the 409 00:27:25,281 --> 00:27:29,241 Speaker 2: early eighties that he possibly killed a child, but stated 410 00:27:29,481 --> 00:27:33,241 Speaker 2: no one in that group ever called the police. Police 411 00:27:33,281 --> 00:27:36,521 Speaker 2: had actually interviewed Pedro during their initial canvas, but he 412 00:27:36,601 --> 00:27:40,921 Speaker 2: was never really on their radar. Pedro never mentioned Aton's 413 00:27:41,001 --> 00:27:44,201 Speaker 2: name or anything specific about the crime to that church group, 414 00:27:44,721 --> 00:27:47,961 Speaker 2: But in twenty twelve police started to take a closer 415 00:27:48,001 --> 00:27:51,721 Speaker 2: look at him. Pedro was living in Maple Shade, New Jersey. 416 00:27:52,041 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 2: Police went to his home to talk to him. Pedro 417 00:27:55,241 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 2: agreed to come to the Prosecutor's office in New Jersey 418 00:27:57,921 --> 00:28:02,001 Speaker 2: to talk to investigators. In a first interview, which happened 419 00:28:02,041 --> 00:28:06,281 Speaker 2: off camera, he initially denied any involvement in Aton's abduction 420 00:28:06,521 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 2: and murder, but then he confessed. Pedro said he lured 421 00:28:12,161 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 2: Aton into the bodega's basement by offering him a soda. 422 00:28:15,761 --> 00:28:18,801 Speaker 2: Then he said he strangled him and threw his body 423 00:28:18,921 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 2: into a produce box. Pedro said that Ayton was still 424 00:28:22,921 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 2: breathing when he put him in that box, carried the 425 00:28:25,921 --> 00:28:30,361 Speaker 2: box out and put it out with the trash. Pedro 426 00:28:30,521 --> 00:28:34,001 Speaker 2: was arrested and charged with Aton's murder two days before 427 00:28:34,041 --> 00:28:38,441 Speaker 2: the thirty third anniversary of Aton's disappearance. But it turned 428 00:28:38,481 --> 00:28:42,001 Speaker 2: out there was some very serious problems with Pedro's confession. 429 00:28:42,601 --> 00:28:45,121 Speaker 2: First of all, the police did not read him his 430 00:28:45,281 --> 00:28:49,721 Speaker 2: rights until several hours into questioning, and he wasn't videotaped 431 00:28:49,761 --> 00:28:52,321 Speaker 2: for the first six hours that he was in with police. 432 00:28:53,001 --> 00:28:56,441 Speaker 2: They then asked Pedro to confess again on videotape, which 433 00:28:56,441 --> 00:29:00,121 Speaker 2: he did, and he signed a missing poster of Aton, 434 00:29:00,201 --> 00:29:04,721 Speaker 2: saying I'm sorry I choke him, but then later he 435 00:29:04,761 --> 00:29:09,721 Speaker 2: took back those confessions. Also, Pedro had a low IQ and, 436 00:29:09,761 --> 00:29:13,801 Speaker 2: according to his attorney, a history of mental illness. At times, 437 00:29:13,961 --> 00:29:18,481 Speaker 2: the attorney claimed Pedro had delusions, very vivid hallucinations that 438 00:29:18,561 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: seemed real. Police questioned Pedro for seven hours. His council 439 00:29:24,241 --> 00:29:26,881 Speaker 2: claimed that by the end of all this, because Pedro 440 00:29:27,041 --> 00:29:31,041 Speaker 2: was susceptible to this type of manipulation, the police probably 441 00:29:31,081 --> 00:29:34,201 Speaker 2: had him convinced that he did kill Aton. At the 442 00:29:34,241 --> 00:29:38,801 Speaker 2: time of the confession. Pedro was also on medication, including fentanyl, 443 00:29:39,001 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 2: to deal with his mental health conditions. His lawyers stated 444 00:29:42,521 --> 00:29:47,561 Speaker 2: in court had a schizotypal personality disorder, which included, according 445 00:29:47,601 --> 00:29:50,681 Speaker 2: to the New York Times quote, symptoms such as severe 446 00:29:50,721 --> 00:29:55,561 Speaker 2: social anxiety, paranoia, and odd beliefs end quote. The defense 447 00:29:55,681 --> 00:30:00,361 Speaker 2: psychiatrists said Pedro heard voices, had visions, and was unable 448 00:30:00,401 --> 00:30:05,521 Speaker 2: to distinguish reality from fantasy. His attorney also told forty 449 00:30:05,521 --> 00:30:08,081 Speaker 2: eight Hours there were parts of Pedro's story that didn't 450 00:30:08,121 --> 00:30:12,001 Speaker 2: make any sense, including the fact Pedro said he saw 451 00:30:12,041 --> 00:30:14,801 Speaker 2: Aton at the bus stop that morning. There were a 452 00:30:14,881 --> 00:30:17,841 Speaker 2: lot of children and parents who were congregated. There some 453 00:30:17,881 --> 00:30:20,721 Speaker 2: people who knew Aton. None of them said they saw 454 00:30:20,801 --> 00:30:25,761 Speaker 2: Pedro or Aton that morning. The evidence points to Aton 455 00:30:26,041 --> 00:30:30,001 Speaker 2: never making it to that bus stop. Pedro was charged 456 00:30:30,041 --> 00:30:33,241 Speaker 2: with second degree murder and he pleaded not guilty. In 457 00:30:33,241 --> 00:30:36,081 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, he went on trial for the murder of 458 00:30:36,121 --> 00:30:40,161 Speaker 2: Aton Pates in Manhattan State Supreme Court, but the jurors 459 00:30:40,201 --> 00:30:43,561 Speaker 2: failed to reach a verdict. One juror refused to convict 460 00:30:43,801 --> 00:30:47,081 Speaker 2: because of several factors like the lack of physical evidence 461 00:30:47,121 --> 00:30:50,521 Speaker 2: and the problems with the confession. The judge was forced 462 00:30:50,561 --> 00:30:53,881 Speaker 2: to declare a mistrial. Another problem with that trial, by 463 00:30:53,921 --> 00:30:56,481 Speaker 2: the way, was the fact that police had for years 464 00:30:57,041 --> 00:31:02,601 Speaker 2: very publicly focused on Jose Ramos, and Pedro's attorneys presented 465 00:31:02,641 --> 00:31:05,281 Speaker 2: a lot of evidence that they claim show that Jose 466 00:31:05,441 --> 00:31:10,721 Speaker 2: Ramos could have killed Aton. In twenty seventeen, Pedro Hernandez 467 00:31:10,761 --> 00:31:14,681 Speaker 2: went on trial again. This time he was found guilty 468 00:31:14,801 --> 00:31:17,921 Speaker 2: and convicted of murder. He was sentenced to twenty five 469 00:31:18,001 --> 00:31:22,681 Speaker 2: years to life in prison. His lawyers continued to deny 470 00:31:22,721 --> 00:31:25,761 Speaker 2: that he had any involvement in Aton's murder. They insisted 471 00:31:25,841 --> 00:31:28,721 Speaker 2: the only reason he confessed was due to his mental illness, 472 00:31:28,961 --> 00:31:32,241 Speaker 2: the one that caused him to hallucinate. And again there 473 00:31:32,281 --> 00:31:36,881 Speaker 2: was no physical evidence and no witness. According to WNYC. 474 00:31:37,281 --> 00:31:40,281 Speaker 2: At the sentencing hearing, Stan and Julie said they would 475 00:31:40,361 --> 00:31:43,281 Speaker 2: never forgive Pedro Hernandez for what he had done to 476 00:31:43,321 --> 00:31:48,721 Speaker 2: their son. Stan said, quote, Pedro Hernandez, after all these years, 477 00:31:48,761 --> 00:31:51,601 Speaker 2: we finally know what dark secret you had locked in 478 00:31:51,641 --> 00:31:55,281 Speaker 2: your heart. You took our precious child and threw him 479 00:31:55,281 --> 00:31:59,041 Speaker 2: in the garbage. I will never forgive you. The god 480 00:31:59,121 --> 00:32:04,561 Speaker 2: you pray to will never forgive you. End quote. Stan 481 00:32:04,761 --> 00:32:08,521 Speaker 2: and Julie's decades long nightmare seemed to finally be coming 482 00:32:08,521 --> 00:32:12,441 Speaker 2: to an end until earlier this year, when there was 483 00:32:12,481 --> 00:32:16,921 Speaker 2: another bombshell development in this case. In late June of 484 00:32:16,921 --> 00:32:22,121 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, an appeals court throughout Pedro Hernandez's murder conviction. 485 00:32:23,161 --> 00:32:25,881 Speaker 2: Their reasoning was that they found the judge had given 486 00:32:25,921 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 2: the jury incorrect instructions. According to a legal expert who 487 00:32:30,241 --> 00:32:33,201 Speaker 2: spoke to CBS, jurors sent a note that asked the 488 00:32:33,281 --> 00:32:36,481 Speaker 2: judge a question. The issue was whether or not Pedro's 489 00:32:36,521 --> 00:32:40,561 Speaker 2: first confession, the one that was made before police started videotaping, 490 00:32:40,721 --> 00:32:44,441 Speaker 2: was voluntary or not. They asked the judge if the 491 00:32:44,481 --> 00:32:47,841 Speaker 2: confession wasn't voluntary, would that effect the rest of the case, 492 00:32:47,961 --> 00:32:50,561 Speaker 2: and the judge said no, that it would not. The 493 00:32:50,601 --> 00:32:54,001 Speaker 2: appeals court found that that answer by the judge was wrong. 494 00:32:55,001 --> 00:32:59,081 Speaker 2: One of Pedro's lawyer's, Harvey Fischbein, told The New York Times, 495 00:32:59,401 --> 00:33:03,041 Speaker 2: that the ruling proved that Pedro was innocent. He suggested 496 00:33:03,081 --> 00:33:06,081 Speaker 2: that DA should set Pedro free and focus on finding 497 00:33:06,081 --> 00:33:10,801 Speaker 2: the real killer. New York City prosecutors announced in September 498 00:33:11,161 --> 00:33:13,641 Speaker 2: they planned to petition the U. S. Supreme Court to 499 00:33:13,681 --> 00:33:17,921 Speaker 2: restore Pedro's murder conviction. They argued that the decision by 500 00:33:17,961 --> 00:33:22,241 Speaker 2: the appeals court raised substantial legal questions, but a judge 501 00:33:22,281 --> 00:33:25,761 Speaker 2: recently ruled Pedro must be freed unless he is retried 502 00:33:25,801 --> 00:33:29,881 Speaker 2: within a reasonable period, So right now this case is 503 00:33:29,921 --> 00:33:34,921 Speaker 2: in limbo. On September sixteenth, twenty twenty five, the New 504 00:33:35,001 --> 00:33:37,921 Speaker 2: York Post report of the Manhattan District Attorney's office has 505 00:33:38,001 --> 00:33:40,641 Speaker 2: asked the Second U. S. Circuit Court of Appeals to 506 00:33:40,761 --> 00:33:44,321 Speaker 2: wait to enforce their decision. According to The New York Post, 507 00:33:44,801 --> 00:33:48,521 Speaker 2: but Pedro's lawyers are opposing this request for more time. 508 00:33:49,001 --> 00:33:53,001 Speaker 2: So Pedro Hernandez's conviction has been overthrown, but for now 509 00:33:53,401 --> 00:33:57,081 Speaker 2: he's still behind bars. Where does that lead the case? 510 00:33:58,041 --> 00:34:01,481 Speaker 2: The evidence against Pedro Hernandez, in my opinion, is weak, 511 00:34:02,081 --> 00:34:05,641 Speaker 2: especially considering how much more that jury's and the general 512 00:34:05,681 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 2: public now know about false confessions now versus back then. 513 00:34:10,801 --> 00:34:13,321 Speaker 2: Could detectives go back and try to build a case 514 00:34:13,361 --> 00:34:17,521 Speaker 2: again against Jose Ramos. That's a weird situation as well, 515 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,361 Speaker 2: because while it seems as though he's a viable enough 516 00:34:20,361 --> 00:34:24,761 Speaker 2: suspect to raise reasonable doubt in court, to my knowledge, 517 00:34:24,881 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 2: there's not enough evidence, at least not anything that's been 518 00:34:27,721 --> 00:34:30,921 Speaker 2: revealed publicly to bring him in and charge him. Either. 519 00:34:31,921 --> 00:34:35,441 Speaker 2: Could it have been Jose Ramos, is there some piece 520 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 2: of evidence against him that slipped through the cracks, or 521 00:34:39,201 --> 00:34:41,921 Speaker 2: could one of the other suspects who aton encountered that 522 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 2: morning in nineteen seventy nine, or someone else who has 523 00:34:45,601 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 2: never been mentioned be responsible for his disappearance. One other 524 00:34:50,841 --> 00:34:54,281 Speaker 2: thing that this case highlights is how many potential predators 525 00:34:54,481 --> 00:34:56,761 Speaker 2: that that six year old boy passed in the two 526 00:34:56,881 --> 00:34:59,641 Speaker 2: short blocks to his bus stop on that Friday morning. 527 00:35:00,561 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 2: Maybe someone out there knows some of these people, and 528 00:35:04,161 --> 00:35:08,801 Speaker 2: maybe that person will come forward. Aton's parents have had 529 00:35:08,841 --> 00:35:12,241 Speaker 2: to relive that day again and again. But there's no 530 00:35:12,321 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: statute of limitations on murder, So if you are out there, 531 00:35:16,201 --> 00:35:18,881 Speaker 2: it is never too late to come forward and to 532 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:27,921 Speaker 2: help Aton's parents find answers. Eventually, after more than forty 533 00:35:28,001 --> 00:35:31,041 Speaker 2: years in the Prince Street loft, Stan and Julie sold 534 00:35:31,041 --> 00:35:34,361 Speaker 2: that apartment and moved to Hawaii to focus on spending 535 00:35:34,361 --> 00:35:38,281 Speaker 2: time with their family, including their grandchildren. To this day, 536 00:35:38,921 --> 00:35:43,681 Speaker 2: Aton pates his body has never been found. I'm Catherine Ta. 537 00:35:44,801 --> 00:35:50,761 Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line 538 00:35:50,801 --> 00:35:53,721 Speaker 2: is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. 539 00:35:54,081 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 2: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced 540 00:35:57,521 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 2: by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her 541 00:36:01,001 --> 00:36:05,881 Speaker 2: research assistance and James Wheaton for legal review. Noah Camera 542 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,801 Speaker 2: mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song is by 543 00:36:08,801 --> 00:36:14,361 Speaker 2: Ben Sale. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and l. C. Crowley. 544 00:36:14,921 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 2: Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the 545 00:36:17,561 --> 00:36:21,201 Speaker 2: iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you 546 00:36:21,241 --> 00:36:24,121 Speaker 2: were interested in seeing documents and materials from the case. 547 00:36:24,561 --> 00:36:28,361 Speaker 2: You can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod. 548 00:36:29,161 --> 00:36:31,361 Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my 549 00:36:31,401 --> 00:36:33,681 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 550 00:36:33,721 --> 00:36:36,281 Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight 551 00:36:36,761 --> 00:36:40,401 Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. That's six seven 552 00:36:40,481 --> 00:36:43,721 Speaker 2: eight seven four four six one four five. 553 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:48,881 Speaker 1: School of Humans