WEBVTT - Live from QEF: Finance Titans Descend on Doha 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:07.200 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:19.759 Welcome to you in this city. 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.200 Now each week we unpack a story that's crucial to 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:23.680 the world's financial capitals. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:24.560 I'm from sin. 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.000 Laclaw and this week we're recording the show from the 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.240 fifth edition of the Qatari Economic Forum in Doa. So 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.800 it only seems appropriate to zero in on this massive 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.440 wave of deal making emerging from the Middle East. Now, 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.519 following President Trump's recent high profile visit to the region, 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.360 the White House claims that Saudi Arabia, CATTER and the 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:46.480 United Arab Emirates have made over trillion dollars in new 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:47.560 economic commitments. 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:47.760 Now. 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:51.960 These deals, of course, span a range of key sectors, defense, aviation, 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:56.960 artificial intelligence, really signaling this major push towards strategic partnerships 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.360 and long term diversification. Now, in this episode will take 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.400 the pulse of the forum. You can see it's very 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.880 noisy as people also talk around me. We explore how 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.039 business leaders are reacting to the latest deals and what 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.759 it could mean for the region's investment landscape going forward. Well, 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.040 to unpack all of this, and there's a lot to unpack. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.160 I'm delighted to be joined by Matthew Martin, Bloomberg's chief 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.039 correspond for MINA Sovereign Wealth Funds and Nationnaire Bloomberg's chief 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:23.800 correspondent for Global Deals. 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.400 Welcome to the City of London, the city of the 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:33.959 City of London. Please mind the gap between the tree 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:43.360 and the financial hearts of the country, the city, the city. 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:45.160 Welcome in the city. 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:52.600 Bend care of the doors. So good to have you 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:54.480 on the podcast. We can hear each other. But the 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.000 buzz is incredible actually here at the Catar Economic Forum. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.800 Yes, itcuse and it's great to see so many people 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.640 lining up and do this and more than two thousand, 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:05.960 fiveundred delegates. It's a lot of excitement, a lot of 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:07.680 vibe in the region, which is what you kind of 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:09.600 see whenever you come to the Middle East and know 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.480 in the last few years that's been the big change. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.440 Yeah, but then with President Trump noither actually showing up 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.320 last week, I mean it's incredible people talk about deals, right, 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:18.160 Is this real money? 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:19.120 Is this real deals? 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.320 Or is this you know more terms of understanding? Is like, yeah, 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:24.799 we'll work on it, We'll work on AI. Or is 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.040 this region going to get a lot of flows quite quickly? 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.880 Well, I think I was at the Trump's visit to 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.560 read last week, and there was a whole host of 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.160 numbers that were being thrown out by people. You know, 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:40.440 Initially they said that there was six hundred billion dollars 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:42.520 of investments. Then there was announce from the stage there 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:45.440 was three hundred billion dollars. Then the Crown Prince and 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.080 President Trump as well said that there was a plan 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:49.400 to get to a trillion dollars. 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.560 So you know where this number actually is going to 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:53.920 end up. I think it's going to be anyone's guests 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:54.720 over the next few years. 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:56.679 But I think what's what's what's clear is there is 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:01.200 this very real change in mood between the region and 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:06.239 the US. Relations under the Biden administration were strained at times. 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.280 The region was sort of flirting with China and boosting 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:11.960 trade and investment flows with China. Now I think that, 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.160 you know, following Trump's visit, it's really sort of said that, 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.400 you know, this money, they want it to be flowing 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.240 into the US. They really value that partnership, and particularly 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.320 around those things you mentioned, like diversifying the economy, going 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.440 into technology, and to defence. All these areas are definitely 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.160 going to be sucking up a huge amount of capital 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:28.880 out of this region. 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.640 And I mean they all lead money, right, So it's basically, 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.600 you know, the GCC countries cat are saying, we have money, 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.120 but we'd probably like it to be more invested in 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.480 the region rather than going abroad. But the US also 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.920 trying to attract funds. So it's like they're they're you know, 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:45.000 friendly but competing. 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:49.040 Yes, it is, and it's actually quite an exciting, you know, 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.840 interesting mix of the needs of different countries. If you 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.400 look at Saudi Abia for instance, they need a lot 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.840 of capital in the country. They're going through a big 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.320 interest such as spending boom, they're creating the city as 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.480 we know from scratch, so there's a lot of money 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.880 required in the country itself. So this the number which 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.440 has been put out, has raised some question marks on 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.600 whether where is that money going to come from because 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.760 you're spending so much in your domestic economy. 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.040 I think Cutter and UA are a bit different. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.120 If you look at UA for instance, you know the 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.479 infrastructures already in place and their big ambition is to 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.000 diversify the economy and so they have a huge requirement 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.359 you know, to get access into chips and also like 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.400 build out their artificial intelligence industry in Cutter even it's 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.400 kind of remains similar. They're going to get huge inflows 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.120 in the next couple of years, you know, from the 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.720 LNG at sports and it's a small country, so why 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:40.839 do you deploy that? And US becomes a natural home 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:42.760 for them. So I think the dynamics are a bit 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:44.120 mixed for different countries here. 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:45.160 I'm actually I've. 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.359 Been thinking about Salt because it feels like, you know, 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.599 you have president of the United States that wants to 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:51.919 do deals, so this is not only about money. This 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.640 is almost like a strategic geopolitical alliance. So how much 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.560 were the deals announced in the region last week about 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.120 keeping President Trump on side and how much of it 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.200 is actually just pop point in cabro and putting it 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:03.680 to work. 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.719 You know, there's clearly a very real part of this. 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.039 And the sort of announcement inflation that you saw of 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.279 each of the countries that he visited around the region 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.480 wanting to one up the previous one and announce more 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.040 and more. Yeah, I think a lot of that is about, 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:22.880 you know, understanding a very transactional US administration and knowing 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.600 that they can they can play that game to their 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.840 advantage because they often have these big sobign mode funds 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.120 that can deploy capital and can make these big long 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.479 term commitments. So look, some of that is going to 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.719 be a bit nebulous and is possibly not going to 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.360 see the light of day. But you know, I think 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:45.200 as well, they see that diversifying their economies. They see 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:47.839 that building an AI industry, becoming hobs for these sorts 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.760 of things, you have to partner with the US for it. 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:52.719 And as much as there has been all the noise 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:54.880 around sort of deep seek and how much that sort 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.280 of changes the equation around AI investments, ultimately I think 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.280 everybody sees the future of AI has come out of 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.960 the US, and so that's where they want to build 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.920 those partnerships. And also, you know, linking into that, the 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.960 region has been very keen on getting defense agreements and 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:13.360 security pats with the US, and so buying a lot 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:17.760 of American hardware helps knit them into that American defense 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:21.719 complex to set the ground for trying to do those 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.640 broader geopolitical deals over the course of this administration, which 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:27.080 I think is going to be one of the big goals. 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.000 But also if you look at some of the biggest 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:31.080 sovereign wealth funds in the world. They sit in this region, 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.400 and this is because of the revenue from more oil 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.200 and gas, which will probably only increase. We heard also 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.240 here from Katar that will increase. We spoke to the 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.880 Kuwaiti Southern Wealth Fund. How much more money will they 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.960 have to put to work in the coming years thanks 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:45.600 to revenue? 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.599 Yeah, I think and as Danish was hinting at this 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:50.599 a bit earlier on, you know, and we had a 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.840 story the other week that Saudi Arabia has got about 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.680 two trillion dollars worth of domestic commitments that it's on 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:58.520 the hook for make and space. 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.640 Some of that out maybe, but clearly. 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.200 The big push within Saudi Arabia is gonna be domestic investments, 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.920 and so the amount of capital that can go outside 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.480 of the country is going to be more limited compared 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.000 to a place like Doha where we are, where they've 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.800 got these big gas fields coming on stream in the 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:17.920 sort of year or two ahead. That's going to be 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:22.040 giving the Qia this massive new war chest that they're 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.040 going to have to deploy. And you know, they're talking 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.920 about a five hundred billion dollar commitment into the US 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:28.640 over the course of the next five years or so. 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:31.880 And that's I mean that probably has some sense of 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:33.960 reality to it. You know, they are going to be 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.360 having to digest more and more capital coming into the 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.960 fond and the US is going to be a great 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:41.480 place to try and digest some of that. 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.000 Similarly in Kuwait as well. 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.840 You know, we had the head of the Kia on 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:48.160 the stage earlier on today. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:49.680 You know, he was talking. 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.520 He was less effusive about making big commitments and pledges 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:55.360 to the US, but you know he was clearly saying 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.360 that you are underweight the US at your peril, and 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.040 so you know this is a sign that you So 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:01.600 I think both of these funds. 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.120 And also Abbadabi as well, are going to. 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.560 Be continuing to look to put lots and lots of 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.080 money at work into the US. 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.040 Yeah, how do they put that capital actually to work? 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:11.200 And again in the US. 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.880 Given the volatility that we've seen, you know, and the 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.840 valuations that have been frankly all over the place, like 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.600 what is our natural home for this capital to end 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:20.440 up in the US. 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.160 So I think a lot of them actually put money 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.600 into public equities and I would think that will continue. 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:27.720 So if you think about cutoff, for instance, saying find 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.200 it billion dollars of commitments over the next ten years. 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:32.800 That's fifty billion on average every year. And if you 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.680 buy the SNP some of the biggest companies that you 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:38.680 can deploy quite a billion a few billion dollars into that. 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:39.800 That will continue, But I think. 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.240 They're also looking at into the AI infrastructure space. A 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:45.520 lot of them are interested in healthcare, so that's a 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.000 big sector that they're focused on. Is to understand, you know, 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.200 and develop their own industry back home. You know, you 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.320 need to kind of invest in that sector. So it's 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.640 quite a lot of money going to that. Power is 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.000 a big space because it's obviously powering. You know, you 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.360 need electricity to and me the AI demand. So there's 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.760 quite a few areas that would invest in. But if 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.680 you think about someone like a Qia of for instance, 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.120 a Abadla, you'll see potentially it's been a bit more 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.840 direct investments, which they've not been doing in the past, 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.280 so that thing, I think that that would go up 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.280 a little bit. And then you know the normal cost 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.120 of business investing in the treasuries and public equities that 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:22.760 which they've been doing for a few years. That will 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.440 continue as well, but still a big number. I think 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:27.160 for me, what is kind of interesting is that if 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.760 they're all chasing the same assets from the same region, 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.120 trying to kind of lobby the same person in the administration, 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:35.840 do they end up paying a little bit more like, 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:37.640 you know, is we're going to be competition from this 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.160 region for the same assets. You know, that's something which 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.120 will be interesting to watch in the coming years. 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.520 I mean, it's interesting because there's also a new head 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.600 of the QIA that's much more familiar actually with US, thankulity. 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:51.240 So I wonder whether that changes the investment profile of 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:52.160 the cybern Mouth Fund. 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.400 Yeah, I think you're clearly from the comments about the 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:59.720 commitments that they're willing to make into the US and 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.840 a lot of the talk around the event today has 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.199 been very uh, there's been a very America first agenda, 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.520 I think among a lot of the panelists, and I think, 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.480 you know, if you look at the QIA, they're clearly 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:18.319 buying into a lot of that trumpanomics, looking at investing 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.440 not just into some of these things that the sort 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.040 of the the stuff we've talked about around AI and 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.360 those sorts of technology and the sort of you know, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.000 the future industries, they're also talking about investing into the 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:32.040 reindustrialization of the US, which is you know that that 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:36.520 whole Trump goal of bringing manufacturing and bringing those jobs 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.680 back into the US and bringing the supply chain for 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.520 American goods back into America, so that they sound very 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.520 optimistic about wanting to play that trade as well, which 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.400 you know is something that people have had some concerns 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.079 about how how realistic that might be. But yeah, I 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:55.640 think you know, the fact that the head of the 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:59.160 QIA now had spent years and years running the US 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.040 means he's obviously very familiar with the economy, very familiar 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:03.760 with the investment scene there and all the people that 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:05.719 he needs to be in contact with. And so I think, 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.600 you know, that's why they're making this decision that they 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.959 are going to be They're going to be very very 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.880 supportive of the Trump administration's goals over these four years. 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:16.319 Danish, how do you see. 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.720 This ending up again if you will get equity? I 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.520 mean there's a lot of talk about private credit, private 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:23.920 equity is there already? 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:25.160 It's early days again. 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.400 Trump just left the region like four days ago, but 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.120 is there an indication of them going more into alternatives? 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.840 There's clearly a push for alternatives though some people especially 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.120 they had the the QIICO who kind of mentioned that 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:43.760 private credit seems a little bit crowded now, but clearly 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.920 there's a lot of push towards private equity. So that 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:49.160 traditionally how these funds have invested in private equity was 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:53.320 either through investing in the funds itself or partnering with 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.199 some of the large private equity films so looking to 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.000 commit capital into buying business in the US, and they 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.520 would come in as a minority investor, and that they've 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.480 been doing for a while. Because they're also like the 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.040 biggest l priests to some of these funds, they've always 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.040 got like a bit of proferential access. They get co 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.000 investment opportunities, they're the first ones to see these deals. 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:11.720 And in a world where there's not so much money 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.360 floating around the Middle East as an LP base over 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.440 the years has become very important for the private agreedy firms, 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.480 so it's not a market they can ignore. That's why 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.600 we're seeing a lot of private EGREDI firms announcing that 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.959 they're setting up shop in Abu Dhabi or in Kata 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:28.959 or in Rear. That's because they understand that the money 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.280 for some of those big investments they need the equity 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.360 check is coming from this region, so I think that 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:34.400 would continue to improve. 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:35.240 The only few of them. 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.120 I don't think a lot of them are keen on 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.600 buying majority stakes and owning businesses outright because they just 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:45.480 don't have the manpower and the operational capabilities to run 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.240 businesses per se. But they do get twenty persons take 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:49.800 and a big business and they get a saying that 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.000 they get a board seed. That's how I think the 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.520 alternative push is going to go into it. Plus there's 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.319 also like you know, if you look at someone like 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.760 an idea, there is a push to do investments more 0:12:58.800 --> 0:12:59.440 into hedge funds. 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:00.920 You know, we keep we understand. 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.240 They're looking at a lot of company a lot of 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.520 money into different strategies. So those that will continue as well. 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.440 Infrastructure, AI, Sports, I mean, I guess there's still a 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.800 big posh also because of the young population here to 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:14.160 own sports teams. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.760 Is it football or it could also be others. 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.920 Yeah, well, I think we're going to see sports continue 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:24.000 to be a big theme across the region. You know, 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.280 I think sports has been emerging much more as a 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.360 sort of investable asset class over the last few years 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.520 than it has been in the past. Obviously, you know 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.920 the PIF's investment and creation of Live and they sort 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.800 of plan maybe if they can get dealed on to 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.880 merge with the PGA. You know that that's another big 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.560 push by the PIF to get into into the US 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.800 sports scene. And there's you know, sort of talk around 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:51.680 changing some of the rules around ownership of American sports teams, 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.120 which opens up the door to these. 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:54.319 Sort of private extuity players. 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:55.679 And I think, you know, one of the things that 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:57.880 we've heard from some of the sessions today is that 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.640 the sovereigns out of the region can afford to be patient, 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.920 and they can afford to take some time investing in 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.959 these things which maybe don't return a huge amount of 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.880 money in a typical sort of three to five year 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.560 private acuity period, but if you look at that longer 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.520 sort of ten to fifteen years, then they could be 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:20.480 really they could be both financially viable and they play 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:24.560 this great role for promoting the region and promoting the 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:26.920 region is a place to invest, a place to holiday, 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.080 a place to visit, promote that sort of understanding as well, 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.120 and that those sort of soft power links which is 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.360 increasingly a role that the sovereigns out of the region 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.040 are playing. You know, they used to be you know, 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.360 fifteen twenty years ago, the sovereign funds were all saying, look, 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:46.360 we're not political actors, We're purely investing for financial returns. 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:48.920 And now, you know, I don't think anybody bothers making 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:49.400 that argument. 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:50.640 I think you know it. 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.640 Clearly they are in They are playing a role in 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:56.840 state craft and a role in soft power. 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.920 Projection, which is also why we saw a lot of 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.840 the trophy assets, right the like Herod's or PSG or 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.880 some of these big brands that was cool to own 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:07.160 if you have a lot of money. So like you 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.160 you're the new kid in town. It's like suddenly you 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:11.800 have a brand that everybody recognized and either just like 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.840 staying there or shopping there or watching Will that continue? 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:16.320 Yeah? I think so. 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:21.160 You know, if you look at the sort of Oscar 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.040 Wild quote of you know, the only thing worse than 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:24.640 being talked about is not being talked about. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:26.800 And so you know, I think that that's part as. 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.400 Your father by Deneh, and that's part of sort of 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.120 inserting themselves into the conversation and things like you know, 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:34.400 Harods and things like. 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:35.720 You know, all the money that gets. 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.480 Poured into hosting sporting events in the region, it makes 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.240 you part of the conversation. You know, nobody has written 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.760 more about Saudi Arabia since these live golf and the 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:48.920 investments into the Premier League get into bringing Premier League 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.040 players to Saudi Arabia. So, you know, I think that 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.240 that that's all part of because of elevating the the 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.280 role and the knowledge that of these countries are all 0:15:58.320 --> 0:15:59.000 around the world. 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.400 Yes of sports is soft power, as Matt mentioned, and 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.800 that's been a big factor for buying into some of 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.480 these It's not just the financial returns, you know, see 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.600 increasing that we see these funds trying to buy influence 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.000 as well as you know, when they buy assets, it's 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.280 also like what kind of influence that can get in 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.160 a certain administration or a certain region. So there's a 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.240 bit of that thinking going behind and the fact that 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.800 they can own some of these assets for longer periods 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:25.680 of time, you know, compared with the private equity firm 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.920 give some the ability to kind of withstand losses, you know, 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.160 through cycles, So that kind of that that's something that 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:33.720 one days they have, so you kind of I think 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.560 we'll continue to see sports investments. We saw a period 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.960 and QI a kind of stepped away from making these 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.600 you know, trophy asset investments uh and kind of went 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.120 into a lot more venture capital investment in early tech investments. 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:49.600 But we kind of think like with the more influence 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:51.360 coming in over the less two years, so we'll kind 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:52.320 of see bigger deals. 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:53.760 Uh. 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:55.800 And it has to be like, you know, like some 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:57.960 of the big assets you know that turn become trophy 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.400 assets to maybe continue to see that as well. 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:02.040 I mean, there was a wave where there was a 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.919 lot more scrutiny great and that's coming gone about some 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.080 of the money from certain parts of the world going 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:09.920 for example, to London to New York. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:11.600 Where are we on that? 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.440 I think there were some reports about some of these 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:19.359 investments which was promised to the Trumpet administration and the 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.160 some ipro's being raised in the US about what does 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.720 this mean for some of our core assets. I'll be 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.760 giving too much access to Middle East and investors, so 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.600 that there will be that screwtinay doesn't go away. But 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.159 I think you know, when you have an administration on 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.800 your side, and when you have someone who is so 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.040 transactional and who wants to kind of see investments being 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.800 made into the country. I think there is a bit 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.800 of levy in that. I don't think so. During the 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.760 Biden administration, Sophius was a big concern for Seals funds, 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.080 like they were lobbying to try and see how can 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.919 we get access to US ASS without Sephius blocking some 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.840 of these deals. And overall it seems like the regulatory 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.000 environment in the US is a bit more friendly now. 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.480 Uh So, I guess it's less of a concern now, 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.040 but these things always come and go. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.680 Yeah, yeah, and Matthew also the way for him, I 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.760 mean even Qatar, but other you know, countries in the 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.440 region straddle I guess, a friendliness with the US in 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.520 terms of investments, but also the China. At some point 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.160 do they have to choose or are they being asked 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:20.800