1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and welcome to next question. Today, 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: we once again are dedicating our full attention to the 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: coronavirus pandemic, which continues to spread across the country, growing 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: at alarming rates in the most populated areas. In fact, 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: on Friday, March, the Mayor of New York City, Bill 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: de Blasio, marked a distressing new milestone. I hate to 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: say this, but it's true. We are now the epicenter 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: of this crisis. New York State has nearly half of 9 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: the nation's coronavirus cases, and the number is growing faster 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: than anyone predicted. As of this recording, the positive COVID 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: nineteen count in New York City is doubling every three days. 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: Here's Governor Andrew Cuomo. On March, one of the forecasters 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: said to me, we were looking at a freight train 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: coming across the country. We're now looking at a bullet train, 15 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: because then numbers are going up that quickly. What that 16 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: means is that the peak of coronavirus infections will be 17 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: much higher and hit New York much sooner than expected. 18 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: Giving the city's vast network of hospitals, which are already 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: under tremendous strain, less time to prepare, less time to 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: get the critical equipment they need to care for those patients, 21 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: and less time to replenish their stash a protective gear 22 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: so that medical staff can continue to work without getting sick, 23 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: Which leads to my next question, how are emergency rooms 24 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: in New York City faring now? And how are they 25 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: bracing for what's to come? And later on what could 26 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: have been done to allow us to be better prepared 27 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: for this pandemic. But first, Hi, rob Hi, Hi, it's Katie. 28 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: How are you? How are you doing? Oh? My god? 29 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: Thank you for taking time to do. Dr Robert Semia 30 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: is the Chair of Emergency Medicine IT and y you 31 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: Land Gown in New York City. In that role, he's 32 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: in charge of the emergency departments of several n y 33 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: U hospitals across the metropolitan area. We see about five 34 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: thousand patients in all of our emergency departments across Manhattan, Brooklyn, 35 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: and Long Island, and we've seen a couple of consistent things. 36 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: One Overall, at the majority of our emergency departments, the 37 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: volume is down, but we have a huge spike in 38 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: the number of respiratory cases that are serious requiring requiring intubation, 39 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: and that numbers seems to be growing every day. I 40 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: get a I get a report every twelve hours from 41 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: our emergency departments Shift report one of our a d s. Yesterday, 42 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: in a twelve hour period intubated seven patients had put 43 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: them on ventilators. That's a huge number for one twelve 44 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: hour period of time. And then you know we have 45 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: very The next day might be one or two. The 46 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: next day it might be six or seven again, so 47 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: there's capacity right now, but everyone's trying to figure out 48 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: how do you make sure that there's capacity down the road. 49 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: To help with some of this, we stood up a 50 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: twenty four hour a day video visit telemedicine, where now 51 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: we're seeing a thousand visits on a telemedicine platform trying 52 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: to keep people off the subways from spreading disease, giving 53 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: them advice, and keeping them out of the emergency departments. 54 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: So we have seen some good impact there where our 55 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: overall eat volume is down for people that are not 56 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: seriously ill, but we have seen a huge spike in 57 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: the number of people who are very sick and needing 58 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: to be put on ventilators. Well, let's first talk about 59 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: the telemedicine patients rob you're seeing. Basically, they need to 60 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: know if their symptoms are serious enough to go to 61 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: the hospital, if they in fact have COVID nineteen. In 62 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: most of those cases, are you able to encourage them 63 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: to in fact stay at home and to self quarantine. 64 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: We have. One of the things that the telemedicine visits 65 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: that we're seeing is that there's a lot of public 66 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: fear and it's grounded in in really a lack of information, 67 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: and so we're seeing many patients who really have a 68 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: couple of questions. One, they want to know if they're 69 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: going to get seriously ill suddenly and die. Number two, 70 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: they want to know if they need a test for COVID. 71 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: And number three they want to know, Okay, what symptoms 72 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: do I watch for if I quarantine at home. When 73 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: someone calls you, particularly an elderly person, and worries that 74 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: that person is going to be come extremely ill from this, 75 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: what do you tell them? The majority of calls that 76 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: we're seeing are from people that are younger that have 77 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: symptoms that most of us, if it wasn't this pandemic, 78 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: would think our typical winter rest the tory colts, low 79 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: grade fever, cough um right, no sore throat. The issue 80 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: is that those symptoms overlap with the same symptoms as 81 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: COVID and UM. What I tell patients is that most 82 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: of us will probably are many of us will probably 83 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: get COVID and UM not even realize that. We'll just 84 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: think at the winter cold and the majority of us 85 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: will do just fine. UM. And really the people that 86 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: need to go to the e r s are those 87 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: who have those typical resttory symptoms and then those symptoms 88 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: progress to UM shortness of breath and difficulty in breathing, 89 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: and so we give them advice about that, and we 90 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: also talk about the need for testing. And for most patients, 91 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: what we tell them is, you know, if your symptoms 92 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: are in that minimal group right now, you're not having 93 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: shortness of breath. Whether you have a COVID test or not, 94 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: does not change the information and the guidance that I'm 95 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: going to give you right now, which is to stay 96 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: at home self quarantine um UH. Go to the CDC 97 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: or the government websites. UM. If you're unsure about the 98 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: best way to self quarantine at home. We usually tell 99 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: people you should do things like if you share a 100 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: bedroom with someone, to sleep in a separate bedroom, if 101 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: you have a second bathroom, try to use that bathroom, 102 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: do good disinfection of counter surfaces, and those things. And 103 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: then we give them guidance about what you need to 104 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: watch for, and that being the increasing shortness of breath 105 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: and for those patients, you should come to the emergency department. 106 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: Most people are pretty relieved when they hear that because 107 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: they're just not sure. The experience that we're seeing in 108 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: the emergency department is that the majority of the patients 109 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: that are ending up on rest but on ventilators are elderly, 110 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: but we are seeing people in younger age groups that 111 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: are very sick. Also. I'll tell you what's been the 112 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: uplift thing part of these conversations is that we're seeing 113 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: many people that are younger generations that are sick, and 114 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: they're telling me, you know, I don't want to go 115 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: out and potentially infect older people, and I don't want 116 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: my grandmother and my grandparents to be at risk, and 117 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: so um, that part has been very uplifting to to hear. 118 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: So it's that's positive because we've seen so many stories 119 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: rob of of kids going on spring break and being irresponsible. 120 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: So it's nice to hear that younger people are actually 121 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: thinking otherwise than trying to be more responsible. Let's talk 122 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: about personal protective equipment or PPE, a word that the 123 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: general population now understands that used to be the purview 124 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: of the medical community. We're talking about the mass, the gowns, 125 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: the gloves that protect you and your team from coronavirus. UM. 126 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: Are you all getting the equipment you need? There's not 127 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: enough and UM we have the equipment now, but we're 128 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: worried that UM, as is everybody that will run out, 129 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: and so we started conservation measures that are safe, but 130 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: they're psychologically taxing on the doctors and nurses at work. 131 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: So UM. Some of the things that we've done UM 132 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: are to cohort any patient that comes into emergency departments 133 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: into just one area of the e er. Whereas before 134 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: all this happened, you you know, we have multiple teams 135 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: and we have big emergency departments, and you could go 136 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: to any part of the emergency department. Now we we 137 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: put all the patients in one area that have those symptoms, 138 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: and in that area are doctors and nurses where those 139 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: and nine masks that you're probably hearing about and those 140 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: masks are in short supply. And and how those masks 141 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: help is they help with airborne or or virus that's 142 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: floating in the air, and typically they're used for tuberculosis 143 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: or things like that. COVID appears to be mostly droplets, 144 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: so somebody sneezes on you, costs on you. Those that 145 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: liquid hits you, um and doesn't really hang in the air, 146 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: but there are some indications that for certain things it 147 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: does hang in the air, like when we're doing an 148 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: intubation or those things. So, UM, what we've had to 149 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: do is to somewhat limit how many times we change 150 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: out of that equipment, so you might wear your same 151 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: mask with a face shield, for example, on the entire shift, 152 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: instead of changing it multiple times to shift. We do 153 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: change our gowns and other things. Or if we get sprayed, 154 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: of course we change. But that's something that we never 155 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: had to do. We never had to worry about conservation 156 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: and UM, to an im introom doctor or nurse, it's 157 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: it's an emotional drain. Um. You're already in a in 158 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: a and basically a space suit that you can only 159 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: change up part of it. You're hot, you're sweaty. Yeah, 160 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: everybody's concerned that. You know, can the supply and chain 161 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: catch ups? Anybody who works with you have any of 162 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: your colleagues got sick? Yes, Um, so many of our 163 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: people have gone sick. Doctors and nurses with fevers or costs. 164 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: We they all get sent home. When COVID testing was available, 165 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: they were tested, some of them positive, some negative. The 166 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: good news is all of all of our people who 167 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: actually have been positive and sick are all better and 168 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: return to work. Now we've done some things. We do 169 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: have some more senior physicians. We've kept them uh in 170 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: parts of the emergency department where they're not exposed, you know, 171 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: just knowing that that most people that have a little 172 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: more candles on their birthday cake are more at risk. 173 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: But no, the good news is is at n y 174 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: U Land going here, every every one of our doctors 175 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: and nurses that's gotten sick has recovered us fine. I 176 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: want to bring up a question from a listener. Her 177 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: name is Mary, she's a nurse. She doesn't say where 178 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: she works, but she wondered if how care workers should 179 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: isolate themselves from their families. I'm assuming even if they're 180 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: asymptomatic if and if so, how have you gotten such 181 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: a question yourself? What are you advising your colleagues to do? So? 182 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: One of the things is that, UM, you know, just 183 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: like the general public. UM. You know, our colleagues and 184 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: the emergency departments UM here in New York and across 185 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: the country come to work every day. But everybody has 186 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: their own anxieties about this, and so for example, UM, 187 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: we've created the ability for people to shower before they 188 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: actually go home because they're wondering, am I going to 189 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: spread something? Am I an asymptomatic career? I have people 190 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: that I work with who have decided they have a 191 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: little baby at home, and with their seeing they pan 192 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: out there that they're not going to go home, They've 193 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: got a friend's place to stay at, who has a 194 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: vacant apartment, of those kind of things. All those questions 195 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: we run we run by our infection disease specialists. But 196 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: I think you know a lot of people, even when 197 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: they're doing the best practices at home, whether that's trying 198 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: to keep a distance, even though they may not have 199 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: any UM symptoms, they're still wondering. They're still worried for 200 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: themselves and their word, for their family, and so they're 201 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: taking whether it's appropriate, precautions, extra precautions. Yeah, people worry 202 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: about those things and they try to keep some distance. UM. 203 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: When I do these videos is it's also sides working 204 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: in the dy we do get people. Another group that 205 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: we're concerned about is if you live with somebody who's 206 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: immuno compromised. You know, I've had people tell, you know, 207 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: talk to me saying, you know, they can't get COVID 208 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: testing as of today. Um. That seems to be constantly 209 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: changing the availability of public testing. They're concerned because someone 210 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: they live with has multiple miloma or some form of cancer. 211 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: They're aware that those people are at an increase risk, 212 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: and so they want to do the right thing. Try 213 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: to keep their distance, try to socially isolate, but try 214 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 1: to do that while you're sharing a home with somebody. 215 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: I had people tell me they're living in their basement 216 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: if they have a basement. Um. So there's a lot 217 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: going on, um as people try to keep each other 218 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: as safe as possible. When you think about the next 219 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: few weeks, do you have any idea when this is 220 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: going to peak? No idea, I don't you know, I 221 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: don't know. UM, you know, it's hard hard to say, UM, 222 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: I'm seeing sicker patients and in increasing numbers. I don't 223 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 1: know when that will level off. Our general approach is 224 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: that we need to be prepared for this to be 225 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: a marathon and not a sprint, and so making sure 226 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: that our doctors and nurses get adequate respite, making sure 227 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: that we have relief physicians and nurses available should it, 228 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: should much of the workforce go down temporarily or have 229 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: to go home because they're sick. For approaches, UM do 230 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: our best on a day to day basis, but our 231 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: eyes looking down the road always tell people that you know, 232 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: working in an emergency department on a regular day is 233 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: like running a two minute no huddle offense in football, 234 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: but for eight hours. And now you throw in, UM, 235 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: some uncertainty into that mix. It's it's like you're trying 236 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: to do that in a swimming pool. But UM, people 237 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: that work in emergency departments are special. They have big hearts, 238 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: They feel for patients and human suffering, and UM are 239 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: really up for this challenge and and just want to know. 240 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: I just want to feel that their support for them, 241 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: and that support looks like proper ppe and UM, I 242 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: will tell you that doing some of these videos. Its 243 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: also has been uplifting because so many times people have 244 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: expressed gratitude for what e R doctors and nurses do. 245 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: We're getting more thank you than we normally do. We're 246 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: seeing young people talk about how they're worried about older folks, 247 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: and there's this multigenerational kind of commitment and kindness and 248 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: empathy that's on display. So, UM, yeah, you know, we're 249 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: all as a nation going through a lot, and we're 250 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: all in this together. But I've seen some really encouraging 251 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: signs of um, what the future looks like and um 252 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of people's in her kindness right to 253 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: the surface, and that makes me feel really good. That 254 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: was Dr Robert Famiett, Chair of Emergency Medicine at and 255 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: why you land gone in New York City and why 256 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: you may be managing now, but other hospitals around New 257 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: York City and indeed the country are already struggling under 258 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: the pressure of the coronavirus and the weeks to come. 259 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: I'll be continuing to reach out to those working on 260 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: the front lines of this pandemic, and I'll bring you 261 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: those stories here on this podcast, also on Instagram. Live, 262 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: which you can find by searching my name Katie Curic 263 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: on Instagram. Up next, why wasn't this country better prepared? 264 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: We'll talk with an expert whose job was to do 265 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: just that. Welcome back, everyone. We're continuing our coverage of 266 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: the coronavirus this week, taking a look at pandemic preparedness 267 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: from the emergency room to the oval office. Hi, fa Hi, 268 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: thanks so much for doing this. Beth Cameron is the 269 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: former Senior Director for Global Health Security and Bio Defense. 270 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: This unit, which was a part of the White House 271 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: National Security Council, was established by the Obama administration after 272 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: the two thousand fourteen Ebola epidemic, and it was intended 273 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: to be a smoke alarm, a warning of the first 274 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: signs of a global health crisis. In two thousand eighteen, however, 275 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: the Trump administration disbanded the unit. The Office of Global 276 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: Health Security and Bio Defense was set up after the 277 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: Ebola epidemic in order to get ahead of outbreaks before 278 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: they become epidemics or pandemics. We're really worried coming out 279 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: of Ebola. It was a hugely devastating outbreak that killed 280 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: over eleven thousand people. UM, but we were looking at 281 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: that as ultimately an event that stayed relatively circumscribed to 282 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: three major countries. Of course, there were lots of concerns 283 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: that it would spread more rapidly, and there was a 284 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: huge global intervention that the US helped lead to keep 285 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: that from happening. But we were very worried about exactly 286 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: what we're seeing now, a large scale respiratory illness that 287 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: would become a pandemic, and we knew that we weren't 288 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 1: prepared for that as a nation or as a world. 289 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: Let's imagine a world in which that office had not 290 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: been dissolved and you were still leading at Beath. What 291 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 1: role would it be playing right now in the midst 292 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: of this crisis. It would really be the best way 293 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: to describe the office's role now would be as a 294 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: coordinating hub. So the office was playing a role in 295 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: in working with high level senior officials and sending information 296 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: about problems and issues up the chain so that they 297 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: would be resolved quickly. But also really importantly, we're listening 298 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: to staff at the working level across departments and agencies. 299 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: So when there was a problem or a challenge or 300 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: a need in the States or in another country. We 301 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: were able to figure out, Hey, what's the real issue, 302 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: who's not agreeing, and then elevate it really quickly. You 303 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: helped transition the incoming Trump administration. You directly briefed then 304 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: Homeless Security Advisor Tom Bossard. Did you have a sense 305 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: at that time the new administration was committed to the 306 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: objectives of this office. Yes, during the transition, I had 307 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: quite a good experience with transitioning this specific office from 308 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: President Obama to President Trump, and both the outgoing team 309 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: and the incoming team, particularly as you mentioned, Homeland Security 310 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: Advisor Tom Basser had been through um pandemic threats before 311 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: in the Bush administration, and so there's actually quite a 312 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: lot of support for continuing the role of this office, 313 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: and not only from Tom Basser, but also from National 314 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: Security Advisor HR McMaster, who I briefed before I left. 315 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: You said you were mystified when the Trump administration dissolved 316 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: the office in May of two thousand eighteen. Now there 317 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: seems to be a difference of opinion here with your 318 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: op ed in the Washington Post and someone within the 319 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: Trump administration name Tim Morrison, who believes that your account 320 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: was wrong. So tell me as you understand it. What happened? 321 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: Can you explain? I can, and and I think that 322 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: Tim's op ed was less of a rebuttal of what 323 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: I said and more of an explanation of the organizational 324 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: structure UM and what happened. So my understanding of what 325 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: happened is that Tim Zeemer, who took my position as 326 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: the head of the Office UM, left the White House 327 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: and the people who worked on his team were dissolved 328 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: and were moved into another director at the director that 329 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: Tim Morrison ran. And it's definitely true that some good 330 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: policies did come out of that office following the dissolution 331 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: of the pandemics team. But the difference, the critical difference, 332 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: is that there wasn't a team or a senior level 333 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 1: person whose only responsibility it was to handle pandemic threats. 334 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: And that was something that coming out of the BOWLA 335 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: Epidemic re realized was missing. That we were all focused 336 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: on epidemic, we were all focused on the BOWLA outbreak, 337 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,719 Speaker 1: but we didn't have a singular mission with a direct 338 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: reporting line to the National and Homeland Security Advisor where 339 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: our job was only to focus on that issue. And 340 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: it's like a transnational threat like counter terrorism um, like 341 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: climate change, it's something that when we see what's happening now, 342 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: it's easy to understand why you'd want to have a 343 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: singularly focused pandemics team. But when you don't have a 344 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: pandemic happening, I can see how it would how a 345 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: national security advisor might look at that and think, well, 346 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: maybe we don't need a team that's solely focused on 347 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: this issue, and I just completely disagree with that. This 348 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: is a lesson that lots of administrations have learned. So 349 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: there have been senior level officials in the last couple 350 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: of administrations focused on pandemic threats, and usually it's after 351 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: an outbreak or a pandemic when that lesson um is learned. 352 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: And so one of the things that happened in the 353 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: Obama administration is a couple of lessons came together. One 354 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: of those lessons was that we needed a senior level 355 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: official who's only job it was with a direct reporting 356 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: line to leadership. The other lesson is that we needed 357 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: a team that looked at homeland and national security issues together. 358 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: When President Trump was asked about this Beth during one 359 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: of the White House press conferences, he insisted he didn't 360 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: know anything about that, But you did disband the White 361 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: House Pandemic Office, and the officials that were working in 362 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: that office left this administration abruptly, So what responsibility do 363 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: you take to that? And the officials that worked in 364 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: that office said that you that the White House lost 365 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: valuable time because that office wasn't disbanded. What do you 366 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: make of that? Well, I just think it's a nasty 367 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: question we've done. Were you surprised at that and who 368 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: exactly was in charge of getting rid of the position? 369 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: I was surprised by that. Um. I was surprised because 370 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: there was quite a lot of press about getting rid 371 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: of the office in when it happened, and there were, 372 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, a number of high level people in Congress, 373 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: UM think tanks who wrote letters or spoke out and 374 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: said that this was a mistake. So I was surprised 375 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: that he wasn't aware. Um. The all I can say 376 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: is that the dissolution of the office happened around the 377 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: same time that Tom Bosser left, so right after he 378 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: left and right as National Security Advisor John Bolton came 379 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: on board, and so I think this really was part 380 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: of an overall restructuring and a decision was made that 381 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: this reorganization was a was a better organization for the 382 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: White House. The White House is to choose its organizational structure. 383 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: But it's unfortunate that this lesson got unlearned in the process. 384 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the warning signs though, that 385 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: existed for this current epidemic pandemic. Rather, can you talk 386 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: about some of the flashing red lights that we saw 387 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: because there were a number of them, weren't there. Yeah, 388 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: there were a number of them. Um, you know, going 389 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: back to the beginning and watching the outbreak unfold in China, 390 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: looking at a novel coronavirus that had um the ability 391 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: to spread between people. That was definitely something in our 392 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 1: playbook of concerns, you know, a new disease that could 393 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: spread more quickly between people with with a higher mortality. 394 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: And I think the second that that information became available, 395 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: that would have flipped a switch for us to start 396 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: meeting more regularly and thinking about what kinds of what 397 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: kinds of preparedness plans we needed to put in place 398 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: or dust off in the United States. And when was that? 399 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: That was in January when those cases really started coming 400 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: coming to light. There was absolutely a bit of a 401 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: delay in the world learning about this, But we did 402 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: learn about it um in January, UM, several months ago. 403 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: I want to mention something even prior to that. According 404 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: to The New York Times, there was a training exercise 405 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: led by multiple federal agencies, twelve states, and private stakeholders 406 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: that simulated a scenario where respiratory virus dubbed the crimson 407 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: can tajun rapidly spread through the United States. What can 408 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: you tell us about that, because before we talk about 409 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: January February, let's talk about October. Yeah, well, we can 410 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: go back even further than than October. We can go 411 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: back to the transition between the administrations. So back in January, 412 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: before the Obama administration left, there was a half day 413 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: um discussion between the outgoing cabinet, the outgoing White House leadership, 414 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: and the incoming team, the presumptive nominees for the Trump administration, 415 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: And we looked at a number of homeland threats and 416 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 1: one of the small number of things highlighted for the 417 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: incoming team was pandemic was pandemics. So I was in 418 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: that discussion and helped put that that discussion together, and 419 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: there was a very robust conversation between outgoing officials and 420 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: incoming officials about a respiratory agent um in that place, 421 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: I think we were looking at a flu variant that 422 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: could do something very similar to what's happening now. And 423 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: then fast forward to a number of tabletops that happened 424 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: outside of government, as well as the one highlighted in 425 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: the New York Times, which actually I was not aware 426 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: of that exercise and wasn't in government when it was conducted, 427 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: but reading the reports of it, it looks eerily similar 428 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: to what's happening now and certainly is something that White 429 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: House leadership should and would have been aware of. So 430 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: why do you think they didn't pay attention to that? 431 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: I mean, the serendipity of that simulation is pretty uncanny. 432 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: I think a couple of things, just having gone through 433 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: these exercises, they can they can based on who's in 434 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: charge of of acting on what comes out. They either 435 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: become playbooks for action and urgent action, or they become 436 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: overwhelming and people don't know where to start to fill. 437 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: What is apparent now to us in the world is 438 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: just a massive, massive set of gaps in pandemic preparedness. 439 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: So um, all I can say is that this was this, 440 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: this issue of pandemic preparedness should be funded the way 441 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: that we fund military defense. It needs to be UM, 442 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: it needs to be completely ramped up. It needs to 443 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: include um A massive lessons learned. When this is all 444 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: over and I think UM moreover, it's it's inexplicable to 445 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: me why we haven't been able to act on some 446 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: of the major recommendations that have come out of out 447 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: of exercises throughout the last several months and years. So 448 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: when you dig deep and try to understand it, what 449 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: conclusions do you draw? I draw a couple m One 450 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: is that it's really hard to imagine a scenario on 451 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: the scale of what's happening now, and so we've developed 452 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: many tools over the last couple of decades to help 453 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: us with pandemic threats. One is our Strategic National Stockpile, 454 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: which has been in the news a lot lately. Another 455 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: is the Global Health Security Agenda, which is something the 456 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: Obama administration launched to assist other countries to get prepared. 457 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: Both of those efforts, just as in another is our 458 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 1: Biomedical Research and Development Agency bar TO, which helps advance 459 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: medical countermeasures. These are massive efforts that different presidents launched 460 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: which when we look at them in retrospect, made a 461 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: huge difference in our ability to deal with this crisis, 462 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: but didn't go nearly far enough. And so I think 463 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: part of it is when you look at the reports 464 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: written about nine eleven, it's a failure of imagination, not 465 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: to imagine what could happen, we're pretty good at that 466 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: and tabletop exercises, but to actually get past the imagining 467 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: and into the filling of the major gaps that will 468 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,479 Speaker 1: have to deal with in the worst case scenario. And 469 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: I think that's been challenging for for many leaders to 470 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: wrap their heads around, including me when I was in government. 471 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: But I also think that it's a it's a failure 472 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: of of not having enough people in government whose day 473 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: to day job it is to be thinking about those gaps. 474 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: I put out a note to doctors, ner, his respiratory therapist, etcetera, 475 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: to tell me about what they were experiencing, and it's heartbreaking. 476 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: I just got a message this morning from someone who 477 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: is a doctor in Louisiana who's already lost several colleagues 478 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: to the coronavirus. Who can who's writing her will? I mean, 479 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: it's just heartbreaking to me. These young people who are 480 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: working so hard on the front lines. And I don't 481 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: want this to be a Kulda would have should have, 482 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: But there has to be some lessons learned. I hope 483 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: there's a commission similar to the nine eleven commission to 484 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: look back on this. But what could have been done 485 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: to provide to our most critically important healthcare professionals the 486 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: protective equipment they needed? How could we have supported these 487 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: people more and protected them? I think it's a It's 488 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: an excellent question, the hardest question to answer. I think 489 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: right now, UM, it's very clear that we needed a 490 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: much more nationalized response than we currently have. And UM, 491 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: I think going back a couple of months, we should 492 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: have been thinking forward about that nationalized response. So what 493 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: I mean by that is, right now, we're seeing reports 494 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: and I'm hearing them to talking to mayor's offices and 495 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: people who are out on the front lines in the field, 496 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: and they're cannibalizing each other. They're trying to buy equipment, 497 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: um over top of each other. And the problem is 498 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: that we have a system in the United States for 499 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: responding to a pandemic that is built on what the 500 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: states will request, and that that's still the system that 501 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: the federal government seems to be building its response off of. 502 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: And this isn't a hurricane. Hurricanes are hugely devastating, but 503 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: they usually don't affect all fifty states at once, and 504 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: usually they don't continue for months and months and months UM. 505 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: And so our system is built for providing and scaling 506 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: up specific commodities and then getting them out quickly to 507 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: the field, but not ramping up production continually for all 508 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: fifty states. And so it's really it's clear to me, 509 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: at least at this moment, that we need someone in 510 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: charge of the National Logistics Response UM, working with FEMA 511 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: or maybe from within FEMA, but planning this the way 512 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: we do a massive military operation. I don't mean to 513 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: militarize the response in that sense, but using those tools 514 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: that we have to transport, produce, and supply our country. 515 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: And it doesn't seem like we've kicked that into high gear, 516 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: nor that we were planning to do that a couple 517 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: of months ago, when it would have made a much 518 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: bigger impact. So what's the solution now? I mean, these 519 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: people are desperate, they're reusing these and mass they're trying 520 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: to sanitize them. They don't have the equipment they need. 521 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: How the heck do we get this equipment to these 522 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: people pronto? So I see two solutions and two and 523 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: neither of them are perfect and neither of them are 524 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: fast enough. But solution number one is that we UM, 525 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: we have a national registry that starts monitoring where all 526 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: the pp is and brings together all of these great 527 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,959 Speaker 1: um blooming initiatives that are happening out in the field 528 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: under an umbrella that can actually match make much more 529 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: effectively between states and entities that need personal protective equipment 530 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: and other supplies the most. And that would require a 531 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: real nationalized response with the logistics plan and someone in 532 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: charge of it who knows how to plan, you know, 533 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: on the order of a military operation, somebody like the 534 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: head of trans Calm who does this for a living. 535 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: When we UM, when we have a massive operation overseas. 536 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: The other option, UM, if that can't happen, or won't happen, 537 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: or isn't agreed to happen, is that the governors could 538 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: UM come together and decide to do this themselves. UM. 539 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: They could work with UM a coordinator on their own. 540 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: They could work with the private sector with Amazon and 541 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: you know ups and others who have logistics chains themselves 542 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: to create a more nationalized system across the fifty States. 543 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: UM and I I've talked to a few people about 544 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: that idea, almost an air traffic controller concept for the 545 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: for the response, and I think that it's something that 546 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: could work, but it would really need the right person 547 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: in agreement from the States to do it. The other 548 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: thing that really makes me frustrated right now looking at 549 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: the response is that ideally, UM, what we do, what 550 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: the United States of America does, is we lead the 551 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: global response, and we're not right now, and we should 552 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: be making enough to staff and stock our own country, 553 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: and then we should be shipping it and coordinating the 554 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: response all over the world. And right now we're one 555 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: of the only countries in the world that can actually 556 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: do that, even though it's hard to see that we 557 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: can at this moment, we have the capability, the logistics capability, 558 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: of production and manufacturing capability to do that, and we're not. 559 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: We should make too many and then we should staff 560 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: the global response. We'll return with Beth Cameron after the 561 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: short break. We're back with Beth Cameron, who ran the 562 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: White House Pandemic Office from two thousand sixteen until March 563 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 1: of two thousand seventeen. A year later, the Trump administration 564 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: disbanded the office, a move that she says left the 565 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: country less prepared for pandemics like COVID nineteen. What about 566 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: these tests, um and the CDC? I mean, did the 567 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: CDC just royally screw up? I hate to be so 568 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: blunt about this, but did the CDC all down on 569 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: the job? What happened with these this whole testing thing? 570 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: Why weren't there enough? And why are there still not enough? 571 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: I think there are a couple of failures on the 572 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: testing front um, and I've done some forensics on this, um, 573 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: there are other people that have to I actually lay 574 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: the criticism for this not directly at CDC s feed, 575 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: although certainly there were some challenges at CDC in this 576 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: as well. I lay it at the feet of leadership 577 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: because honestly, UM, when CDC realized that their test kit 578 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: was going to have problems, M yes, someone should have 579 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: sent a flare up saying, hey, we have problems, let's 580 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: have a backup, let's order the w h O kits, 581 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: let's put them through emergency use authorization so we can 582 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: do that. But somebody else at HHS in the government 583 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: at the White House, UM, in leadership position should have said, look, 584 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: while you're working on this test and perfecting it, we 585 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: are going to create a backup because it is too 586 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: important that we start testing now. Um. That's not necessarily 587 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: the job of the people manufacturing the test kit at CDC. 588 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: It's their job to alert, but it's somebody else's job 589 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: to say, Okay, we're going to make the decision for 590 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: you that this isn't the only test that we're going 591 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: to have. And that's the kind of decision that the President, 592 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: the Vice President, you know, the lead for this UH 593 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: for this pandemic in the White House should be bugging 594 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: every day about so. And to go full circle bath, 595 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: that's the kind of issue this Pandemic Commission would have 596 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: been all over and on top of, because it would 597 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,240 Speaker 1: have been part of its centralized role to make sure 598 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: that you know, these things were taken care of in 599 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: a in a very efficient, fast way. That's that was 600 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: exactly the reason that the office was created to be 601 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: able to get above the day to day challenges that 602 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: people were facing, which are sometimes really hard to surface. 603 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: As you know, when there's a problem, it's really hard 604 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: for people at the working level to admit that the 605 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: problem is great, especially if it's a problem that they 606 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: don't usually experience. CDC is usually quite good at creating 607 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 1: excellent test kits um and diagnostics. When they have a problem, 608 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: somebody should say, look, you're having a problem. That's okay, 609 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: We're going to help you solve the problem. But we 610 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:33,479 Speaker 1: can't wait for you. Um. That's that's leadership's job. And finally, Beth, 611 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: there's been some rumblings and indication that the administration is 612 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: weighing the cost on the economy with the cost on 613 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: public health and and and human life. Really uh, that 614 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: there's some drive in the White House, ostensibly led by 615 00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: the President himself, to try to take a look a 616 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: couple of weeks to returning or making efforts to loosen 617 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: the guidelines and mandates and to get the economy going again. 618 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 1: So I think Easter Sunday and you'll have packed churches 619 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: all over a country. I think it would be a 620 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: beautiful time. And it's just about the timeline that I 621 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: think is right. This is against the advice of I 622 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: think universal advice of public health advocates and officials and experts. Um, 623 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 1: can you weigh in on the rumplings we're hearing about that. 624 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: I don't even think it's just the public health experts. 625 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: I think it's every credible person that I've talked to. UM, 626 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: we can't relax these measures, and it would be bad 627 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: actually for the economy. I mean, if we weren't even 628 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: thinking about the huge toll on lives and the at 629 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: risk and the elderly, if we even put that aside 630 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: for a second, this would be bad for the economy 631 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: because until the case load comes down, until our hospitals 632 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,240 Speaker 1: system stabilizes, until we have a steady supply chain for 633 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: all of the things we've been talking about, personal protective equipment, 634 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: UM and re agents, test kits, etcetera. Until all of 635 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: those things get to a stable level. If we turn 636 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 1: people back on and send them back to work, where 637 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: we'll see increasing spikes crashing health care system, people will 638 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,879 Speaker 1: then not go to work, or they'll be sick, they'll 639 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: be confusion, and ultimately the economy will tank again. And 640 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: it might even be it might I'm not an economist, 641 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: but I surmise it might be worse because it will 642 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 1: be even more unpredictable how that will happen across the country. 643 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: So I think it would be a terrible idea to 644 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: relax these measures right now when they're actually starting to 645 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 1: make a difference. There does need to be hope, though, um, 646 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: for the American public and for the economy. And I 647 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: think that hope is letting the social distancing do its job, 648 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: watching the case counts start to fall the way that 649 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: they've fallen in other countries that have done this, and 650 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: then ma of testing so that we know who is 651 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: infected and ultimately also who has been infected, so that 652 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: people can be isolated on a case by case basis, 653 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: and the people that don't have the disease or who 654 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: have recovered from it can start getting back to work. 655 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 1: And I think that's what we have to be looking for, 656 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,240 Speaker 1: and we have to have um specific fact based measures 657 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: that drive us in that direction. But we're definitely not 658 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: there yet. It's fascinating to the science of this virus 659 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: is so complex, um, And are you optimistic that that 660 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: the scientists studying this, that that are working so hard 661 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: on developing a vaccine, who are trying to identify the 662 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: antibodies that some people have naturally to this virus, that 663 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: that science will come up with some answers relatively soon. 664 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,959 Speaker 1: I'm optimistic, um, for sure that we're going to get there. 665 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: I think most of the experts I trust, including folks 666 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: that are out at the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovation, 667 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: which has been looking at coronaviruses and vaccine candidates for 668 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: coronaviruses for a while now. I'm optimistic that will eventually 669 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: get a vaccine, but it will probably be twelve to 670 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: eighteen months. I am optimistic that will eventually get to 671 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: some therapeutics that might work for some individuals, and hopefully 672 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: we'll get to some therapeutics that work for the elderly 673 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 1: and for other at risk populations, because that's where if 674 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,720 Speaker 1: we can if we can help identify a few things 675 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: that work, um, that would be even just to make 676 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: it less less deadly, even if it's still has a 677 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: terrible course in some people. UM, I think that would 678 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: be helpful. I am optimistic, um, but I think we're 679 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: in this for for months um until that point, and 680 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: certainly at least a year for a vaccine. Well. Hopefully 681 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,280 Speaker 1: this terrible chapter in our history and and the world's 682 00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: history will provide some lessons learned. I have to believe 683 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: that we will look back and try to get a 684 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: handle on how we prevent this from happening in the future. 685 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: That was Beth Cameron, currently the Vice president for Global 686 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: Biological Policy and Programs at the Nuclear Threat Initiative. And 687 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: that does it for this episode of Next Question. I 688 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: know a lot of this can be tough to hear. 689 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 1: These are indeed scary times, but if we do our part, 690 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: if we heed the experts warnings and stay home and 691 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: find virtual ways to connect, we can get through this. 692 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: In the meantime, to lighten the load, I'd like to 693 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,439 Speaker 1: highlight an act of kindness. You might remember last week 694 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 1: I asked you to share the good deeds you've seen 695 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: or experienced during these dark times, and we've gotten some 696 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: really touching ones. I'd like to share one message I 697 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 1: received from a listener named Lee Stewart, who lives in Bristol, Virginia. 698 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,800 Speaker 1: A couple of days ago, my brother and I had 699 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: to leave our eighty nine year old mother alone in 700 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: the I see you of the local hospital because it 701 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: had to ban visitation due to the coronavirus. Of course, 702 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: we totally agree with the precautions, and even she understood 703 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: that they were necessary. But it's so difficult, especially when 704 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: right before I left, she clasped my hand and said, 705 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: I don't want you to leave me. However, her nurses 706 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:48,800 Speaker 1: have been absolute angels. They have adopted her and even 707 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 1: fixed the face time on her phone so that my 708 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: brother and I can chat with her. So every afternoon 709 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: one of the nurses holds up the phone own and 710 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: calls us and we're able to have a nice long 711 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: talk with our mom and just really see how she's doing, 712 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,359 Speaker 1: and she can see us. That gives her a lot 713 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: of comfort. Um, we can't even describe how grateful we 714 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: are for these medical professionals who are not only using 715 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 1: their medical knowledge on the front lines of this crisis, 716 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: but who also are providing a conduit of compassion that 717 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,320 Speaker 1: enables families like ours to stay together, even though it 718 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,399 Speaker 1: times that's only in a virtual way. Thanks for your 719 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:52,279 Speaker 1: hard work and inspiration during this crisis, and thanks so 720 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: much to the our ends and other medical staff who 721 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:06,839 Speaker 1: are both warriors and angels during this time. Thank you, Lee. 722 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: We wish you and your family well, and of course 723 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: the same to all of our listeners. You can keep 724 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: sending your moments of kindness. I think we could all 725 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 1: use a dose of the fields. Just leave your name 726 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: and a detailed message at eight four four four seven 727 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 1: nine seven eight eight three again eight four four four 728 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,360 Speaker 1: seven nine seven eight eight three. You can also email 729 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 1: me at info at Katie Kirk dot com. Just put 730 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: kindness in the headline. For the most up to date 731 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: information and guidance on the coronavirus pandemic, please visit the 732 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: CDC and the World Health Organization. You can also check 733 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: out our morning newsletter, wake Up Call. You can subscribe 734 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: to that and get everything you need to know every 735 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 1: morning in your inbox. Just go to Katie Kurk dot com. 736 00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: We'll be continuing this special coronavirus coverage on Next Question 737 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: Him for the weeks to come. You can subscribe to 738 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,319 Speaker 1: us on Apple podcast, the I Heart Radio app, or 739 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Until next time 740 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,799 Speaker 1: and my Next Question, I'm Katie Couric. Thank you so 741 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 1: much for listening, and stay safe everyone. Next Question with 742 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 1: Katie Couric is a production of I Heart Radio and 743 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:35,240 Speaker 1: Katie Currik Media. The executive producers are Katie Kurik, Courtney Litz, 744 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 1: and Tyler Klang. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Our 745 00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: show producer is Bethan Macaluso. The associate producers are Emily 746 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 1: Pinto and Derek Clemens. Editing by Derrek Clements, Dylan Fagan 747 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 1: and Lowell Berlante, Mixing by Dylan Fagan. Our researcher is 748 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:57,000 Speaker 1: Gabriel Loser. For more information on today's episode, go to 749 00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,799 Speaker 1: Katie Currek dot com and follow us on Twitter and 750 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:07,320 Speaker 1: in Stagram at Katie curric For more podcasts for my 751 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,400 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 752 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows