WEBVTT - Insider College Admissions Advice with Alice Chen, Expert Coach and BrightStory Founder EP 370 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:13.920 Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:14.520 and speaker. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.640 And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.200 writer and course creator. We are two working parents who 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.120 love our careers and our families. 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.400 Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:30.440 how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.280 from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:39.400 We want you to get the most out of life. 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.680 Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.240 episode is airing in early September of twenty twenty four. 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.280 Probably most of our listeners sending kids back to school 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.559 either last month or this week, so we're doing some 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.760 school related content here. I am going to be interviewing 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.520 Alice Chen, who is the owner of Bright Story Admissions Insulting, 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:02.600 So it's going to be talking a little bit about 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.080 the college admissions process, things that people with children in 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.319 middle school or high school might want to think about, 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.880 but not just the college admissions process, because as we've 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.720 talked about on this podcast many times, it seems to 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:17.120 swallow up senior year for many kids. And that's a 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.920 shame because it's also a time of life when kids 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.840 are learning to be adults, and there's a lot that 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.160 goes into that. And so Alice talks about all the 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:30.040 life skills that you can think about the college admissions 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.400 process as developing, and to some degree is the kids 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:38.119 get those life skills that can be even more important 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.000 in terms of how they talk about themselves, how they 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:45.480 think about their strengths, how they learn to present themselves, 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.760 how they learn to manage a big project with multiple parts, 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:54.400 to manage their time, all of those very very important things. So, Sarah, 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.440 do you remember applying to college. It's been a long 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:58.559 time for both of us now I do. 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:03.280 I mean the applications mostly on paper, but I would 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:06.880 type my essays like using like word or word perfect 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:07.720 or whatever we were. 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:08.240 Using back then. 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:10.720 My dad helped me edit them, but definitely didn't write 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.320 any of them. And one random vision that came into 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.880 my head when we're talking about college admissions is, you 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.959 know you'd get the paper, not the acceptances or rejections, 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:22.679 but like the big books in the mail that would 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.919 like show like the glossy brochures. Okay, so I cut 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.200 the ones I had applied to out and I put 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.040 them all up on my cabinet wall. I taped them 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:31.440 all up, and there were like seven of them, and 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.200 then like, I got rejected from two of them, so 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:34.600 I took those down, but I was just so proud 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.280 of having the five open that I had gotten to 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:38.799 look at Like it was like, oh, I get to 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:40.840 choose from all these flavors of ice cream or something 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:44.840 like that, and so yeah, that's my it's my college 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.639 application process in a nutshell. I did not apply early 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:48.679 decision anywhere. 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.160 Yeah, I think that was starting to be a thing, 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:52.920 but it wasn't quite as big a thing when we 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.400 were applying. Certainly one difference. I mean, you applied to 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.560 seven schools and that was probably seen as a normal 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.880 number or even on the high side, and kids these 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.760 days definitely apply to a dozen or sometimes even more. 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:11.480 That it's been facilitated by it being online and a 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:13.639 lot of this being a college app that a lot 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.119 of the common app a lot of the colleges except 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:18.919 the common app sometimes with a little bit of supplementation. 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.680 But it certainly has become a little bit more doable 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:23.920 to apply to a lot of places. I think I 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.120 actually wrote one or two of my essays or at 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:30.320 least the application stuff on a typewriter, Like I put 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:35.640 the form into a typewriter and then wrote with the typewriter. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:36.760 I think I did the same thing. 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.040 Yeah, I had a typewriter. I liked playing with it. 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:45.320 And of course we got our decisions by mail torture. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.360 Torture, I mean, and you didn't know when it was coming, 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:50.320 like you know, at least I think with a lot 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:52.560 of them. Right, it's like you know exactly when it's 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.000 going to come, and you can refresh your email and 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:55.880 you can be like, Okay, I'm ready for this moment, 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:56.640 I'm in the right place. 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:57.160 Whatever. 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.000 No, it was like roulette every day at the mailbox. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.160 So like I don't want to go through that again, 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:03.040 and I'm glad my kids. 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:03.400 Won't have to. 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:08.600 Yeah, no, I remember I had been at a conference. 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:10.200 I went to a residential high school, so I had 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.840 a little mailbox for me, like a dorm mailbox. And 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:16.760 it couldn't take big stuff in it, so if you 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:18.440 ever had a package or a big envelope, they'd put 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:19.960 a little slip of paper. And so I had been 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.520 at a conference with a group and we'd you know, 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:26.080 contain the van back and I walk in It's early April, 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.880 and I don't see anything in my mailbox. I'm like, 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.320 what what? And then I open it and there's little 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.120 slips in there, so I was like, ah, okay, that 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.680 sounds good. So then you know, take it up to 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.960 the counter to get envelopes and hand the slips, and 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:47.400 of course the person behind the counter is like, so 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.400 super fun. It was fun. It was a good time. 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.200 But yeah, I mean, it's so much has changed with it. 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:59.039 It's fascinating to go through this as the parental version 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.480 of it. But we definitely for our listeners who are 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:08.960 in this stage of life to turn down the pressure 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:14.800 a little bit. I think some of this is self imposed. 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.799 There are a lot of wonderful schools out there who 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:23.240 accept a reasonably high proportion of the young people who apply, 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.039 And so your kid is going to wind up somewhere 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.960 amazing and wherever they go, that is not the sole 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.279 thing that determines their lives, Whereas the relationship you have 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:41.800 with your kid is a huge part of your experience 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.120 and their experience of their last few years before they 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.320 are launched out into the world. So hoping that people 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.560 could keep that in mind, well, we're about to. I 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.920 guess we'll do the interview portion now with Alice Chen 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.560 of Bright Story Admissions Consulting. So Sarah and I are 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.600 delighted to welcome Alice Chen to the program. Alice, can 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:04.440 you introduce yourself to our listeners? 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:05.760 Sure? 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.200 Well, first, I just want to say I'm a huge 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.920 fan of the podcast. I've been listening for years and 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.159 I've read so many of your books, So thank you 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.280 for having me. Yes, so again, my name is Alice Chen. 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.920 I'm based in the San Francisco Bay area. I'm a 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.560 Stanford grad. I'm a professional journalist, and I run a 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:29.240 boutique college consulting firm called Bright Story. We specialize in 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:33.119 helping high performing teams get into top schools. But something 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.280 that's really unique about my practice is in recent years, 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:40.279 I've shifted away from just purely getting kids into college, 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.919 but focusing more on like the long game, so preparing 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:48.440 students for life. And I use the college application process 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.800 and prep process as a way to teach life skills. 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.400 Because there are a lot of life skills involved in 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.960 a big project like this, right. 0:06:57.520 --> 0:06:58.760 Absolutely, yeah. 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.960 I think that is one mistake families make when they 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.240 come to me is they often think it's just academics 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:05.960 will get you in. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:07.240 But the landscape has. 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.360 Changed so much, especially in recent years, that I think 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.520 you really need something to stand out. And a lot 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.400 of times I find that when my students are doing 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.280 this standout thing, they're gaining a lot of life skills 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.239 in the process, so it's fun. 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.120 Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about how college 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:28.840 admissions has changed over the past few decades. I know 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.560 a lot of our listeners, whether they have kids in 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:33.720 that age range of not of you know, high school 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.560 aged kids, they probably went through the process themselves, but 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.600 it may have been at least ten years ago, probably 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.560 more like fifteen, twenty or a little more. What has 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:48.360 changed over the past two decades or so in the 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:49.920 college admissions landscape. 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.640 Yeah, well, I think it's just gotten a lot more competitive. 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.120 Like when I applied to college a long time ago, 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.840 it was maybe twelve percent admit rate to a place 0:07:59.880 --> 0:08:03.240 like Stanford, and now it's less than four percent. And 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.520 I would say it's a combination of things. There are 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.520 more people in America, there are more people globally, so 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.440 there's just more competition. And after COVID happened and a 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.720 lot of schools went test optional, Like the application rates 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.080 shot up because I think so many more people are 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.040 applying just to see if they have a shot to 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:22.440 get in. 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.800 And the common app has changed this too, I mean 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:27.760 over the past few decades. If you want to think 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:33.160 back even further in sort of the historical college admissions landscape, Yes. 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.320 For sure, I think it's just easier to apply to 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.000 these schools A lot of times, a lot of the 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:42.400 essays replicate, so you're not writing that many more essays 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.640 for extra schools. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.400 And so how many colleges do people generally apply to 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:48.319 these days? 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:49.760 Oh my goodness. 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:54.320 I often recommend applying to maybe twelve schools and getting 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:59.160 arranged within those schools. And but I've seen some of 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.120 my top students who have gotten like great results, they 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.679 might be applying to like fifteen or twenty. Like when 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.000 they're done with me, I see that they apply to 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:08.960 a bunch more, and I'm like, oh, okay. 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:10.320 And I think. 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.599 Initially i'd be like, you should really focus on the 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.800 number of schools you apply and produce excellent work. But 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.440 I have seen that when they apply to more, they 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.000 are getting more admissions. 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:27.080 Interesting, so families come to you, when are they normally 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.760 coming to in the whole process in terms of how 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.600 old the kids are when in the high school journey. 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:34.000 Maybe you can talk a little bit about that. 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.320 Yeah, a lot of families tend to come to me 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:41.400 junior year. That's like a very prime time as they're 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.079 like gearing up. But I have had some people approach 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.200 me as young as sixth grade and want to get 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:52.320 like an intro call in. And typically for those families, 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.840 I don't actually take them because I really value mental 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:59.480 health and I want kids to have a childhood and 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.080 just experience their middle school years without a ton of pressure. 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:07.079 So typically I do accept students going into freshman year. 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:09.600 All right, but junior year isn't too late. If somebody's like, well, 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:11.920 I hadn't even thought about college until junior year, Now 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:13.560 you're not doomed at that point. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.520 No, I mean I have people. I'm sure I'll get 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.640 inquiries this fall. Yeah, so at that point, it's more 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.520 like packaging and shaping. But if you come earlier, then 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.800 you can really think about like life goals and more 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.440 like big picture strategy. Yeah. 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.480 So when I mean, we're talking about teenagers here, and 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.280 I'm not sure how many of them have a big 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.680 picture strategy when you are true sixteen seventeen years old, 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.640 I mean, what does that initial conversation even look like? 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.040 Then it depends on the student. You'd be surprised. I 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.680 would say that for some reason, I do attract a 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.679 lot of like high performing students, and so a lot 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.280 of times they come in with a clear direction of 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:55.120 what they want. Sometimes with younger students, they're like all 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:56.760 over the place, and I'm totally. 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:57.320 Cool with that too. 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.679 I might send them away with like a personality assessment 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:05.240 or build brainstorm dream jobs, and I'll say, hey, this 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.440 is good practice for finding a job in the future 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.120 or a field. Is like go google like interesting people 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:13.280 in your field and just send them a cold email, 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.000 ask them if you can talk to them for ten 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.320 or fifteen minutes and ask some questions about their field. 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:20.280 So it really depends on the student. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.000 But I would say that typically the student that comes 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.400 to me is more like motivated and that type of thing. 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:29.680 But do kids need to know what they're going to 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.640 be doing as they're going into the college admissions process? 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.400 I guess what I'm trying to ask here is I 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.480 feel like so much of this has gotten like you 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.280 have to know what your path is in life, and 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.240 you can't just be a good student who's done well 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:48.160 at two different activities that you like. That that's not 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.199 well packaged. I guess if that's what makes sense. 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:53.920 Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think it 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.440 really depends on the types of school. 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:56.840 You're looking at. 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.400 So if you're looking at like the tippy top, I 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.040 do think that students need like a very cohesive narrative. 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.200 With that being said, a lot of times to take 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.520 the pressure off, I'm like, Okay, you can probably change 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.880 majors at any time in college, so let's just go 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:13.960 with what your current interests are. You don't have to 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.840 have like the next fifty years planned out, but what 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.440 are you interested in today? And so with those type 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.960 of students, that's typically. 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:23.040 What I do. 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.320 And then again, like, if you're not going for as 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.640 competitive of a school, I think you could be a 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.439 little bit broader. But for the top schools, you need 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.000 like a super strong narrative. 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.199 Let's talk about that. What does a narrative mean when 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:39.600 we're talking about sixteen seventeen year old children. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.240 I know, I know it's and sometimes I feel bad 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.760 about saying stuff like this because it's gotten so much 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.840 more competitive than when I went to school. But I 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.560 think a narrative is like a general area of interest. 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.880 A lot of times they have had like an extracurricular 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:59.200 passion project, and some of them come in with like 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.160 crazy stuff that they've done, and I'm like, you know, 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.040 you don't even need college at this point, like you've 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.080 created a viable product, a viable app or something like 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.000 And I hope to help take the pressure off of them. 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.320 But basically it's telling their story, like why they did 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.000 what they did. Maybe there's a personal tie in how 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.079 they want to contribute to the world, how they want 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:23.280 to impact the world, And sometimes what they do in 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:25.680 college remains the same, and sometimes they go in a 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.520 completely different direction. But I think it's just like, at 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.800 that point in time, can you create like a cohesive narrative. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:34.760 And it's a good skill to have, you know, like 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:36.520 any time you're applying for a job, you're going to 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.160 need it and maybe you change careers. But I think 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.760 it comes through like self reflection and knowing what you 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:43.000 like at that point. 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.640 In time, because the idea of the narrative is, let's 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:50.360 say a child has done a lot with soccer, and 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:54.440 then you would construct other things to support that interest, 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.520 showing the interest in that, like that you went deep 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.760 into it, or like doing a vol into your project 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.440 associated with so not just playing soccer. It's that you 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.560 helped at a soccer camp in the summer, right, Or 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.680 maybe you could give a few examples for people. 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:09.920 Right. 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:12.520 Ah, that's a great question. 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:15.920 This is tough because I don't want to talk about 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.600 any current students that I'm working with. But for example, 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.480 I have a student in recent years who was interested 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:29.080 in research and science, and so she actually during the pandemic, 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.120 her parents were both working big busy jobs and she 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.360 was home alone and she actually created a lab in 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:36.920 her garage. 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.560 She invented a new biofuel. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.920 So she took at home material she would buy them 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.840 on eBay and things like that, and she read through 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.000 like maybe dozens or hundreds of journal articles to come 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.080 up with a protocol of how to create a biofuel. 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.160 And she went out and she got a bunch. 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.560 Of different specimens, different types of plants, and like experimented 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.200 to see which one would be the most efficient. She 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:04.680 found like an invasive species, and it's like ten times 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.480 more efficient than corn as a starter crop. It doesn't 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.160 need water and all this stuff. So her narrative would 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.840 be actually the most impressive part of this is that 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.080 she did it all alone, and then she wants science 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.880 firm and things like that. But typically students who do 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.080 these type of big research projects, they will have a 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.400 mentor they will have a lot of funding from their 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.960 schools and things like that. But I think the most 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.360 important part of her narrative was that she did it 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.000 on her own. And then actually in working with her, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.680 I was like, you don't need these top schools. You 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.240 can start a company, right, And that puts you in 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.040 a very different position when you think colleges are going 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.520 to want me rather than I need the college. And 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.320 so I think it helped her develop a lot of 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.680 confidence in knowing what her strengths were. So not every 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.880 student is like that, but it's like that type of 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:56.040 cohesive story, or like a parent had cancer and I 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.200 want to be a cancer researcher. Things like that. Like 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.760 the environment, it just growing up with wildfires. Now I've 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.080 developed these apps to like help predict wildfires. So it's 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.960 stuff like that a personal tie in that hits like 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.600 a big world problem ideally, and then what you've taken 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.320 to do that. I know it sounds very intense, and 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.920 there is this population of students who are doing that. 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.280 My personal my own children are not doing that, but 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.320 I know what people do and what it takes to 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:23.680 get in. 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.239 Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm not doing any biofuels 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.280 in my basement, nor are any of my kids, So. 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:30.880 I know I don't think we ever will be. 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.760 But you know, that's why I'm focused on life skills though, 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.560 right because I know for my own kids, do you 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.520 want that stress and that pressure, like you don't need 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:40.320 a top school? 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.160 Like what can I do to teach them today to prepare? 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.200 All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.400 break and then we'll be back talking more about college 0:16:47.440 --> 0:17:02.480 and life skills in general. Well, I am back with 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.560 Alice Chen, who helps teenagers with college admissions but also 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.120 building life skills through the process of applying to college, 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.159 figuring out who they are, what might interest them, things 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.800 like that. We've been talking about building a narrative, which 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.200 is just you know, I think about this when people 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.240 sometimes ask me, well, why did you write this book? 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:25.680 And I can't just be like, because I'm a writer 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.200 and I needed to write a book. I mean, it's 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.679 like you have to come up with some compelling origin story. 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.320 And so I imagine that that is a life skill that 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.359 you are teaching children as well. 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:38.240 Yeah, for sure. 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:40.560 I mean I always want them to have a personal 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.040 tie in if possible, and once they actually create this 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.200 narrative with me, if you will, like it's something that 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.760 they can keep using and adapting, like when they apply 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.840 to grass school jobs, fellowships, things like that. And so 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.800 we go through the process and I actually approach it 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:57.919 like I would a journalist. So I asked them a 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.120 ton of questions, like if I were reporting the story. 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:02.119 What would I want to know? 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.439 And so I asked them a ton of questions and 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:06.920 then I'm like, oh, put that in, Oh put that in, Like, oh, 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.919 you're funny. You should write with a funny voice, like 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.280 bring your personality out and things like that. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.680 Awesome. So with that, I mean, when you see families 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.000 approaching the college process or they're in it somewhere, what 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.320 are the biggest mistakes that they wind up making. 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.480 Yeah, I mean I think again, a lot of families 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.879 focus too much on academics. And if you're going for 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.560 I would say top one hundred schools, Yes, grades and 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.080 test scores are a big thing, but. 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.919 I think they don't think about life skills. 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.600 They don't think about extracurriculars and passion projects enough, and 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.120 they focus too much just on academics. 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.800 Okay, but with that, I mean, how should kids be 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.240 focusing their time then? I mean, I guess the good 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.120 grades is kind of like maybe the table stakes, right, 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:58.119 But do you do like one or two things? Should 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.560 you do a couple different things? I mean, what would 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:01.200 you recommend? 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.280 Yeah, I would recommend, you know, definitely you need the academics, 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.679 and then on top of that, maybe two or three 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.119 things max and go deep. I mean maybe that's like 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.399 per year though, right, because you have four years, and 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.159 so I would also say definitely, I encourage my students 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.760 to have like one passion project in their high school career, 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:27.400 to just play around with, explore, create something on their own, 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:28.160 that type of thing. 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.200 Yeah, and one of them you mentioned just now, the 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.479 like idea of applying to top one hundred schools, and 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.400 then you know, there's obviously more than one hundred schools 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:40.520 in the university. I'm guessing that a lot of people 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.480 haven't even heard of some number of the top one 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.439 hundred schools. I mean, the schools we've heard of are 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:50.840 either the most competitive ones out there or are ones 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.120 that have a really big football team. Right, that's kind 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.880 of the extent of people's college knowledge. How should families 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:02.600 go about finding there are schools that might have a 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.680 more reasonable admissions rate but still be very good schools 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.280 that do great things with their kids, but that you 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.480