1 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 2 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: and speaker. 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 2: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, 4 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 2: writer and course creator. We are two working parents who 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 2: love our careers and our families. 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life. 10 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: episode is airing in early September of twenty twenty four. 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: Probably most of our listeners sending kids back to school 13 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: either last month or this week, so we're doing some 14 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: school related content here. I am going to be interviewing 15 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: Alice Chen, who is the owner of Bright Story Admissions Insulting, 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: So it's going to be talking a little bit about 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: the college admissions process, things that people with children in 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: middle school or high school might want to think about, 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: but not just the college admissions process, because as we've 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: talked about on this podcast many times, it seems to 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: swallow up senior year for many kids. And that's a 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: shame because it's also a time of life when kids 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: are learning to be adults, and there's a lot that 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: goes into that. And so Alice talks about all the 25 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: life skills that you can think about the college admissions 26 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: process as developing, and to some degree is the kids 27 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: get those life skills that can be even more important 28 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: in terms of how they talk about themselves, how they 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: think about their strengths, how they learn to present themselves, 30 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: how they learn to manage a big project with multiple parts, 31 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: to manage their time, all of those very very important things. So, Sarah, 32 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: do you remember applying to college. It's been a long 33 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 1: time for both of us now I do. 34 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: I mean the applications mostly on paper, but I would 35 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: type my essays like using like word or word perfect 36 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: or whatever we were. 37 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: Using back then. 38 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: My dad helped me edit them, but definitely didn't write 39 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: any of them. And one random vision that came into 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: my head when we're talking about college admissions is, you 41 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 2: know you'd get the paper, not the acceptances or rejections, 42 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 2: but like the big books in the mail that would 43 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 2: like show like the glossy brochures. Okay, so I cut 44 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: the ones I had applied to out and I put 45 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: them all up on my cabinet wall. I taped them 46 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: all up, and there were like seven of them, and 47 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: then like, I got rejected from two of them, so 48 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: I took those down, but I was just so proud 49 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: of having the five open that I had gotten to 50 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 2: look at Like it was like, oh, I get to 51 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: choose from all these flavors of ice cream or something 52 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: like that, and so yeah, that's my it's my college 53 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 2: application process in a nutshell. I did not apply early 54 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 2: decision anywhere. 55 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that was starting to be a thing, 56 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: but it wasn't quite as big a thing when we 57 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: were applying. Certainly one difference. I mean, you applied to 58 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: seven schools and that was probably seen as a normal 59 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: number or even on the high side, and kids these 60 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: days definitely apply to a dozen or sometimes even more. 61 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: That it's been facilitated by it being online and a 62 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: lot of this being a college app that a lot 63 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,119 Speaker 1: of the common app a lot of the colleges except 64 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: the common app sometimes with a little bit of supplementation. 65 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: But it certainly has become a little bit more doable 66 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: to apply to a lot of places. I think I 67 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: actually wrote one or two of my essays or at 68 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: least the application stuff on a typewriter, Like I put 69 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: the form into a typewriter and then wrote with the typewriter. 70 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: I think I did the same thing. 71 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a typewriter. I liked playing with it. 72 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: And of course we got our decisions by mail torture. 73 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: Torture, I mean, and you didn't know when it was coming, 74 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: like you know, at least I think with a lot 75 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: of them. Right, it's like you know exactly when it's 76 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 2: going to come, and you can refresh your email and 77 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: you can be like, Okay, I'm ready for this moment, 78 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: I'm in the right place. 79 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: Whatever. 80 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: No, it was like roulette every day at the mailbox. 81 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: So like I don't want to go through that again, 82 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: and I'm glad my kids. 83 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 3: Won't have to. 84 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I remember I had been at a conference. 85 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: I went to a residential high school, so I had 86 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: a little mailbox for me, like a dorm mailbox. And 87 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: it couldn't take big stuff in it, so if you 88 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: ever had a package or a big envelope, they'd put 89 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: a little slip of paper. And so I had been 90 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: at a conference with a group and we'd you know, 91 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: contain the van back and I walk in It's early April, 92 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: and I don't see anything in my mailbox. I'm like, 93 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: what what? And then I open it and there's little 94 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: slips in there, so I was like, ah, okay, that 95 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: sounds good. So then you know, take it up to 96 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: the counter to get envelopes and hand the slips, and 97 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: of course the person behind the counter is like, so 98 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: super fun. It was fun. It was a good time. 99 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, it's so much has changed with it. 100 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: It's fascinating to go through this as the parental version 101 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: of it. But we definitely for our listeners who are 102 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: in this stage of life to turn down the pressure 103 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: a little bit. I think some of this is self imposed. 104 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 1: There are a lot of wonderful schools out there who 105 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: accept a reasonably high proportion of the young people who apply, 106 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: And so your kid is going to wind up somewhere 107 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: amazing and wherever they go, that is not the sole 108 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: thing that determines their lives, Whereas the relationship you have 109 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: with your kid is a huge part of your experience 110 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: and their experience of their last few years before they 111 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: are launched out into the world. So hoping that people 112 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: could keep that in mind, well, we're about to. I 113 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: guess we'll do the interview portion now with Alice Chen 114 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: of Bright Story Admissions Consulting. So Sarah and I are 115 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: delighted to welcome Alice Chen to the program. Alice, can 116 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: you introduce yourself to our listeners? 117 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 3: Sure? 118 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 4: Well, first, I just want to say I'm a huge 119 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 4: fan of the podcast. I've been listening for years and 120 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 4: I've read so many of your books, So thank you 121 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 4: for having me. Yes, so again, my name is Alice Chen. 122 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 4: I'm based in the San Francisco Bay area. I'm a 123 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 4: Stanford grad. I'm a professional journalist, and I run a 124 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 4: boutique college consulting firm called Bright Story. We specialize in 125 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,119 Speaker 4: helping high performing teams get into top schools. But something 126 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 4: that's really unique about my practice is in recent years, 127 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 4: I've shifted away from just purely getting kids into college, 128 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 4: but focusing more on like the long game, so preparing 129 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 4: students for life. And I use the college application process 130 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 4: and prep process as a way to teach life skills. 131 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: Because there are a lot of life skills involved in 132 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: a big project like this, right. 133 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah. 134 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 4: I think that is one mistake families make when they 135 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 4: come to me is they often think it's just academics 136 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 4: will get you in. 137 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 3: But the landscape has. 138 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 4: Changed so much, especially in recent years, that I think 139 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 4: you really need something to stand out. And a lot 140 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 4: of times I find that when my students are doing 141 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 4: this standout thing, they're gaining a lot of life skills 142 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,239 Speaker 4: in the process, so it's fun. 143 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about how college 144 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: admissions has changed over the past few decades. I know 145 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners, whether they have kids in 146 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: that age range of not of you know, high school 147 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: aged kids, they probably went through the process themselves, but 148 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: it may have been at least ten years ago, probably 149 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: more like fifteen, twenty or a little more. What has 150 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: changed over the past two decades or so in the 151 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: college admissions landscape. 152 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think it's just gotten a lot more competitive. 153 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 4: Like when I applied to college a long time ago, 154 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 4: it was maybe twelve percent admit rate to a place 155 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 4: like Stanford, and now it's less than four percent. And 156 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 4: I would say it's a combination of things. There are 157 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 4: more people in America, there are more people globally, so 158 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 4: there's just more competition. And after COVID happened and a 159 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 4: lot of schools went test optional, Like the application rates 160 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 4: shot up because I think so many more people are 161 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 4: applying just to see if they have a shot to 162 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 4: get in. 163 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: And the common app has changed this too, I mean 164 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: over the past few decades. If you want to think 165 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: back even further in sort of the historical college admissions landscape, Yes. 166 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 4: For sure, I think it's just easier to apply to 167 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 4: these schools A lot of times, a lot of the 168 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 4: essays replicate, so you're not writing that many more essays 169 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 4: for extra schools. 170 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: And so how many colleges do people generally apply to 171 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: these days? 172 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. 173 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 4: I often recommend applying to maybe twelve schools and getting 174 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 4: arranged within those schools. And but I've seen some of 175 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 4: my top students who have gotten like great results, they 176 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 4: might be applying to like fifteen or twenty. Like when 177 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 4: they're done with me, I see that they apply to 178 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 4: a bunch more, and I'm like, oh, okay. 179 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 3: And I think. 180 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,599 Speaker 4: Initially i'd be like, you should really focus on the 181 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 4: number of schools you apply and produce excellent work. But 182 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 4: I have seen that when they apply to more, they 183 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 4: are getting more admissions. 184 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: Interesting, so families come to you, when are they normally 185 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: coming to in the whole process in terms of how 186 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: old the kids are when in the high school journey. 187 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: Maybe you can talk a little bit about that. 188 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of families tend to come to me 189 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 4: junior year. That's like a very prime time as they're 190 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 4: like gearing up. But I have had some people approach 191 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 4: me as young as sixth grade and want to get 192 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 4: like an intro call in. And typically for those families, 193 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 4: I don't actually take them because I really value mental 194 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 4: health and I want kids to have a childhood and 195 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 4: just experience their middle school years without a ton of pressure. 196 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 4: So typically I do accept students going into freshman year. 197 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: All right, but junior year isn't too late. If somebody's like, well, 198 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about college until junior year, Now 199 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: you're not doomed at that point. 200 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 4: No, I mean I have people. I'm sure I'll get 201 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 4: inquiries this fall. Yeah, so at that point, it's more 202 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 4: like packaging and shaping. But if you come earlier, then 203 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 4: you can really think about like life goals and more 204 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 4: like big picture strategy. Yeah. 205 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: So when I mean, we're talking about teenagers here, and 206 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how many of them have a big 207 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: picture strategy when you are true sixteen seventeen years old, 208 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: I mean, what does that initial conversation even look like? 209 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 4: Then it depends on the student. You'd be surprised. I 210 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 4: would say that for some reason, I do attract a 211 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 4: lot of like high performing students, and so a lot 212 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 4: of times they come in with a clear direction of 213 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 4: what they want. Sometimes with younger students, they're like all 214 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 4: over the place, and I'm totally. 215 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 3: Cool with that too. 216 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 4: I might send them away with like a personality assessment 217 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 4: or build brainstorm dream jobs, and I'll say, hey, this 218 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 4: is good practice for finding a job in the future 219 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 4: or a field. Is like go google like interesting people 220 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 4: in your field and just send them a cold email, 221 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 4: ask them if you can talk to them for ten 222 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 4: or fifteen minutes and ask some questions about their field. 223 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: So it really depends on the student. 224 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 4: But I would say that typically the student that comes 225 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 4: to me is more like motivated and that type of thing. 226 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: But do kids need to know what they're going to 227 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: be doing as they're going into the college admissions process? 228 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: I guess what I'm trying to ask here is I 229 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: feel like so much of this has gotten like you 230 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: have to know what your path is in life, and 231 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: you can't just be a good student who's done well 232 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: at two different activities that you like. That that's not 233 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: well packaged. I guess if that's what makes sense. 234 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think it 235 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 4: really depends on the types of school. 236 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 3: You're looking at. 237 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 4: So if you're looking at like the tippy top, I 238 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 4: do think that students need like a very cohesive narrative. 239 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 4: With that being said, a lot of times to take 240 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 4: the pressure off, I'm like, Okay, you can probably change 241 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 4: majors at any time in college, so let's just go 242 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 4: with what your current interests are. You don't have to 243 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 4: have like the next fifty years planned out, but what 244 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 4: are you interested in today? And so with those type 245 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 4: of students, that's typically. 246 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 3: What I do. 247 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 4: And then again, like, if you're not going for as 248 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 4: competitive of a school, I think you could be a 249 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 4: little bit broader. But for the top schools, you need 250 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 4: like a super strong narrative. 251 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. What does a narrative mean when 252 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: we're talking about sixteen seventeen year old children. 253 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 4: I know, I know it's and sometimes I feel bad 254 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 4: about saying stuff like this because it's gotten so much 255 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 4: more competitive than when I went to school. But I 256 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 4: think a narrative is like a general area of interest. 257 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 4: A lot of times they have had like an extracurricular 258 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 4: passion project, and some of them come in with like 259 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 4: crazy stuff that they've done, and I'm like, you know, 260 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 4: you don't even need college at this point, like you've 261 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 4: created a viable product, a viable app or something like 262 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 4: And I hope to help take the pressure off of them. 263 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 4: But basically it's telling their story, like why they did 264 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 4: what they did. Maybe there's a personal tie in how 265 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 4: they want to contribute to the world, how they want 266 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 4: to impact the world, And sometimes what they do in 267 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 4: college remains the same, and sometimes they go in a 268 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 4: completely different direction. But I think it's just like, at 269 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 4: that point in time, can you create like a cohesive narrative. 270 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 4: And it's a good skill to have, you know, like 271 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 4: any time you're applying for a job, you're going to 272 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 4: need it and maybe you change careers. But I think 273 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 4: it comes through like self reflection and knowing what you 274 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 4: like at that point. 275 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: In time, because the idea of the narrative is, let's 276 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: say a child has done a lot with soccer, and 277 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: then you would construct other things to support that interest, 278 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: showing the interest in that, like that you went deep 279 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: into it, or like doing a vol into your project 280 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: associated with so not just playing soccer. It's that you 281 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: helped at a soccer camp in the summer, right, Or 282 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: maybe you could give a few examples for people. 283 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 4: Right. 284 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: Ah, that's a great question. 285 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 4: This is tough because I don't want to talk about 286 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 4: any current students that I'm working with. But for example, 287 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 4: I have a student in recent years who was interested 288 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 4: in research and science, and so she actually during the pandemic, 289 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 4: her parents were both working big busy jobs and she 290 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 4: was home alone and she actually created a lab in 291 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 4: her garage. 292 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 3: She invented a new biofuel. 293 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 4: So she took at home material she would buy them 294 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 4: on eBay and things like that, and she read through 295 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 4: like maybe dozens or hundreds of journal articles to come 296 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 4: up with a protocol of how to create a biofuel. 297 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 3: And she went out and she got a bunch. 298 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 4: Of different specimens, different types of plants, and like experimented 299 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 4: to see which one would be the most efficient. She 300 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 4: found like an invasive species, and it's like ten times 301 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 4: more efficient than corn as a starter crop. It doesn't 302 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 4: need water and all this stuff. So her narrative would 303 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 4: be actually the most impressive part of this is that 304 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 4: she did it all alone, and then she wants science 305 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 4: firm and things like that. But typically students who do 306 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 4: these type of big research projects, they will have a 307 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 4: mentor they will have a lot of funding from their 308 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 4: schools and things like that. But I think the most 309 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 4: important part of her narrative was that she did it 310 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 4: on her own. And then actually in working with her, 311 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 4: I was like, you don't need these top schools. You 312 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 4: can start a company, right, And that puts you in 313 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 4: a very different position when you think colleges are going 314 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 4: to want me rather than I need the college. And 315 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 4: so I think it helped her develop a lot of 316 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 4: confidence in knowing what her strengths were. So not every 317 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 4: student is like that, but it's like that type of 318 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 4: cohesive story, or like a parent had cancer and I 319 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 4: want to be a cancer researcher. Things like that. Like 320 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 4: the environment, it just growing up with wildfires. Now I've 321 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 4: developed these apps to like help predict wildfires. So it's 322 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 4: stuff like that a personal tie in that hits like 323 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 4: a big world problem ideally, and then what you've taken 324 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 4: to do that. I know it sounds very intense, and 325 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 4: there is this population of students who are doing that. 326 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 4: My personal my own children are not doing that, but 327 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 4: I know what people do and what it takes to 328 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 4: get in. 329 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm not doing any biofuels 330 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: in my basement, nor are any of my kids, So. 331 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 3: I know I don't think we ever will be. 332 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 4: But you know, that's why I'm focused on life skills though, 333 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 4: right because I know for my own kids, do you 334 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 4: want that stress and that pressure, like you don't need 335 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 4: a top school? 336 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 3: Like what can I do to teach them today to prepare? 337 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad 338 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: break and then we'll be back talking more about college 339 00:16:47,440 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: and life skills in general. Well, I am back with 340 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: Alice Chen, who helps teenagers with college admissions but also 341 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: building life skills through the process of applying to college, 342 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: figuring out who they are, what might interest them, things 343 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: like that. We've been talking about building a narrative, which 344 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: is just you know, I think about this when people 345 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: sometimes ask me, well, why did you write this book? 346 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: And I can't just be like, because I'm a writer 347 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 1: and I needed to write a book. I mean, it's 348 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: like you have to come up with some compelling origin story. 349 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: And so I imagine that that is a life skill that 350 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: you are teaching children as well. 351 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. 352 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 4: I mean I always want them to have a personal 353 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 4: tie in if possible, and once they actually create this 354 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 4: narrative with me, if you will, like it's something that 355 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 4: they can keep using and adapting, like when they apply 356 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 4: to grass school jobs, fellowships, things like that. And so 357 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 4: we go through the process and I actually approach it 358 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 4: like I would a journalist. So I asked them a 359 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 4: ton of questions, like if I were reporting the story. 360 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 3: What would I want to know? 361 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 4: And so I asked them a ton of questions and 362 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 4: then I'm like, oh, put that in, Oh put that in, Like, oh, 363 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 4: you're funny. You should write with a funny voice, like 364 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 4: bring your personality out and things like that. 365 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: Awesome. So with that, I mean, when you see families 366 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: approaching the college process or they're in it somewhere, what 367 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: are the biggest mistakes that they wind up making. 368 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think again, a lot of families 369 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 4: focus too much on academics. And if you're going for 370 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 4: I would say top one hundred schools, Yes, grades and 371 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 4: test scores are a big thing, but. 372 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 3: I think they don't think about life skills. 373 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 4: They don't think about extracurriculars and passion projects enough, and 374 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 4: they focus too much just on academics. 375 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: Okay, but with that, I mean, how should kids be 376 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: focusing their time then? I mean, I guess the good 377 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: grades is kind of like maybe the table stakes, right, 378 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: But do you do like one or two things? Should 379 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: you do a couple different things? I mean, what would 380 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: you recommend? 381 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would recommend, you know, definitely you need the academics, 382 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 4: and then on top of that, maybe two or three 383 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 4: things max and go deep. I mean maybe that's like 384 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 4: per year though, right, because you have four years, and 385 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 4: so I would also say definitely, I encourage my students 386 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 4: to have like one passion project in their high school career, 387 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 4: to just play around with, explore, create something on their own, 388 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 4: that type of thing. 389 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and one of them you mentioned just now, the 390 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,479 Speaker 1: like idea of applying to top one hundred schools, and 391 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: then you know, there's obviously more than one hundred schools 392 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: in the university. I'm guessing that a lot of people 393 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: haven't even heard of some number of the top one 394 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: hundred schools. I mean, the schools we've heard of are 395 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: either the most competitive ones out there or are ones 396 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: that have a really big football team. Right, that's kind 397 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: of the extent of people's college knowledge. How should families 398 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: go about finding there are schools that might have a 399 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: more reasonable admissions rate but still be very good schools 400 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: that do great things with their kids, but that you 401 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: haven't heard of because they're not an IVY league and 402 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: they don't win the College Bowl championship. 403 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, there are definitely various resources, Like oftentimes I'm like 404 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 4: chat GPT as your friend, enter it in with all 405 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 4: of your parameters and your statistics and see what comes out. 406 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 4: There are various search engines where you can again enter 407 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 4: in geography, size and things like that. And then one 408 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 4: book that I really enjoyed was this book called Colleges 409 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 4: That Change Lives And there's actually a website associated with that, 410 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 4: but basically it was written by a journalist and he 411 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,959 Speaker 4: really evaluated colleges that give students a good learning experience, 412 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 4: like small class sizes, access to professors, high student satisfaction, 413 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 4: and he narrowed it down to primarily small liberal arts schools. 414 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 4: And it's interesting because everybody wants to go for that 415 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 4: big state school or that prestigious Ivy League school, which 416 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 4: which is like seventy five hundred people for undergrad and 417 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 4: you're going to be top by people just a few 418 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 4: years older than you. As ta's you're not going to 419 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 4: get access to small group classes with a professor. And 420 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 4: so that's why I would highly encourage people to look 421 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 4: at the smaller liberal arts schools. 422 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's funny that you just said, like 423 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: put in your parameters in chat GPT Again, if I'm 424 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: seventeen years old, how do I even know what my 425 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: parameters are? Like, how would you go about thinking about this? 426 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we're like obviously my listeners know 427 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: we have a seventeen year old and we're going through this. 428 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: But it's like, okay, people like, well, what size city 429 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: do you want to be at? It's like, I don't know. 430 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: I mean maybe not two hundred people, but I don't 431 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: have many parameters beyond that. 432 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 4: I don't know, right, I think parameters would be like 433 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 4: where in the country do you want to be? 434 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 3: What industry are you interested in? 435 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 4: Later, like, if my students are interested in film, I'll 436 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 4: say okay, or LA and New York. If you want 437 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 4: to do tech, maybe do Bay Area that type of thing, 438 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 4: because I do think that where you go to school, 439 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 4: oftentimes people end up there, alumni networks are stronger, etc. 440 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 4: So I would say geography is something knowing whether you 441 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 4: want to be in a big city or not or 442 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 4: in a more rural area. 443 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 3: The size of the school. 444 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,959 Speaker 4: So if it's like super large, I would say that 445 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 4: there are a lot of resources and a lot of 446 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 4: diversity in terms of classes and professors, but you might 447 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 4: not get as much contact with people, and you'll have 448 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 4: to be more of like a self starter, Whereas if 449 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 4: you go to a super small liberal arts school, you'll 450 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 4: have a lot of contact with your classmates, the social 451 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 4: fabric might be stronger. So if you're not a super 452 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,479 Speaker 4: self starter, I would probably encourage kids to go to 453 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 4: a smaller place where they would be seen and have 454 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 4: more support. 455 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 3: So it's stuff like. 456 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 4: That, Yeah, And then again like areas of interest in 457 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 4: terms of majors and things like that, so ensuring that 458 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 4: the major exists that is strong, that their resources dedicated 459 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 4: to it, and things like that. 460 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. I was talking with one family recently that you know, 461 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: mentioned one parameter for them was if the child was 462 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: going to want mom and dad to come to things, 463 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: then they needed to choose a school that was kind 464 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: of within like let's say a four hour driving distance, 465 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: because otherwise it was going to be somewhat harder to 466 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: just get there for the weekend to go to the kids' 467 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: theater performance or go to a intermural soccer game that 468 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: they were having that was important to them. So that 469 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: was another criteria that might wind up being important to 470 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: people too. 471 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're totally right about that. 472 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 4: And one thing, since this is best of both worlds 473 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 4: and we think about family and life beyond college, I 474 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 4: think just even thinking of where your family of origin 475 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 4: is and whether you want to be closer to them 476 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 4: in the long run, because once you have kids, you know, 477 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 4: it's great to have family nearby. 478 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 3: So actually I did grad school and Chicago. 479 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 4: And the thing that surprised me was like almost everyone 480 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 4: that I knew like grew up in Illinois. 481 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 3: They never left for college. 482 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 4: They were there and they were friends with people for decades, 483 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 4: Whereas in the Bay Area, I feel like people are 484 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 4: very transient. They move here for jobs and things like that. 485 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 4: But I definitely agree that there is value to staying 486 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 4: close to home if you will, and having that family support. 487 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 4: I think America is very transient and it's nice to 488 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 4: have that support. 489 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Talking a little bit more about the actual parts 490 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: of college admission, the SAT changed this year. I mean 491 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: during COVID we had the whole thing with some places 492 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: being test optional. I think some places have gone back 493 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: and forth on that now, but then we also had 494 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: the rollout of the digital SAT this year. I wonder 495 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: what you're telling your kids that you're working with about 496 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: tests these days, and how they should prepare for them, 497 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: how important they might be, anything like that. 498 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, for the types of kids I get, and for 499 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 4: the types of schools they want, I always recommend that 500 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 4: they take the test. Like for a lot of schools, 501 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 4: especially at these more challenging schools, they just want to 502 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 4: see that you have that score to make sure that 503 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 4: you can handle the work. And that's why a lot 504 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 4: of the schools like MIT have brought the test back, 505 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 4: because it puts you at a disadvantage to apply without 506 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 4: a test. They're taking more of a risk on you 507 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 4: because they don't want to admit you and have you 508 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 4: not do well. And so if you're aiming for a 509 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 4: competitive school, I would say, take it, and whether you 510 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 4: want to submit is another story, but typically a role 511 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 4: of thumb for that is like, if you're at the 512 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 4: average score above, I do recommend submitting, or maybe with 513 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 4: if you're like within strikingness is like ten twenty thirty 514 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 4: points below. But again, like for the caliber of schools, 515 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 4: you do need to take that test too well, and 516 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 4: you do need to prepare, whether that's on your own, 517 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 4: hiring somebody taking test prep but take it seriously. 518 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, so just making sure that whatever score you're reporting 519 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: is with in the range for what that schools. Although 520 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: I guess as places aren't reported, as kids aren't reporting it, 521 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: the average is going to change because it's like, if 522 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: you're under a fifteen hundred, why would anyone report it 523 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: then or something. I don't know, it's exactly. 524 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. 525 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 4: One of the downfall of test optional is it's actually 526 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 4: made it harder because the scores are going up, and 527 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 4: so it's sad I feel for kids these days to 528 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 4: get in just because it's a very different landscape. 529 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, very much. Well, so let's talk about what life 530 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: skills are though that you said, like, because it is 531 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: so competitive and who knows if anyone's going to get 532 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: into the top twelve schools or whatever they are. It's 533 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: somewhat of a lottery for some of it, as it 534 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: is for sure, But what skills can you learn through 535 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: the process of applying to college and how my parents 536 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: think about supporting their children through that learning process as 537 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: they are applying to schools. 538 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I've been thinking this top one I 539 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 4: think is sort of a skill as well as a mindset. 540 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 4: And I feel like a lot of students who come 541 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 4: to me, I've noticed that they don't see how amazing 542 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 4: they are, Like, I feel like they lack confidence. It 543 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 4: comes through in their essays where on the outside they 544 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 4: have all the accolades, but on the inside they're quite 545 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 4: nervous or they don't know like their strengths. And so 546 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 4: I would say confidence is a huge thing. And so 547 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 4: with my students. For example, I had a student who 548 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 4: came in with excellent grades. SAT score in she broke 549 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 4: fifteen hundred, and I'm like, well, why aren't you applying. 550 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 3: To the top schools? 551 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 4: And she said, oh, my parents have a kid and 552 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 4: that kid got a sixteen hundred, So I'm not going 553 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 4: to apply. And I'm like, what, No, you know, just 554 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 4: because like, don't care what other people are doing. You 555 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,959 Speaker 4: always should put yourself out there. And so yeah, I 556 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 4: have other students who have more concerns about social confidence, 557 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 4: and so for those type of students, I'll be like, Okay, 558 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 4: your assignment is to go talk to your teacher twice 559 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 4: a week, ask them how their weekend was, or get 560 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 4: phone numbers from people, invite them to hang out that 561 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 4: type of thing. So I think there's a confidence issue. 562 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 4: I would say also with COVID, there's been so much 563 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 4: isolation and screen time that getting kids away from their 564 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 4: screens and into real life is super important. 565 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take a one more quick ad 566 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: break and then we're going to be back talking more 567 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: about life skills that kids can develop. Okay, so I 568 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: am back with Alice ten. We are talking about all 569 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: things college admission, but more broadly what kids can learn 570 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: in the course of doing it. So you're saying confidence 571 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: Sometimes kids need to just decide to try, even if 572 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: there's someone in the universe who's done better. But so 573 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: what there always is that exactly getting to interact with 574 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: people in the real universe, like asking your teachers for 575 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: recommendations or figuring out how you can navigate situations. What 576 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: else are people learning? 577 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say how to position themselves. Like a 578 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 4: lot of times I'll read people's resumes and they'll be 579 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 4: like super technical and I don't even understand what's on them. 580 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 4: But then I teach them how to translate it into 581 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 4: plain English and we talk about like scope and impact 582 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 4: and things like that. So part of it is learning 583 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,479 Speaker 4: how to communicate what you bring to the table. And 584 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 4: a lot of times like their leaders, Like one of 585 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 4: my students was doing research and she talked about how 586 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 4: she was one of the top programmers and like the 587 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 4: lead person in her lab. And I was like, Okay, 588 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 4: who's in your lab and she said college students and 589 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 4: grad students And I said, wait, you're one of the 590 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 4: top people as a high schooler and she said yes. 591 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 4: And I said, well, would you say that you are 592 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 4: like perhaps an informal mentor and she said, actually, the 593 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 4: think about that, Like my mentor was off site in Canada, 594 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 4: and so I was the person really in the lab 595 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 4: and people would come to meet with questions. So yeah, 596 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 4: I agree that that's something I could say, So we put. 597 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 3: That in the application. 598 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 4: So I think a lot of it is getting them 599 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 4: to reflect and realize the impact and the value that 600 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 4: they bring and communicate it to others, because you can 601 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 4: be absolutely amazing. But if you can't share that message, 602 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 4: only you're going to know. So opportunities come to those 603 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 4: who put themselves out there and who can communicate how 604 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 4: special and amazing they are. 605 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,719 Speaker 1: Absolutely. And as parents, I mean, we know how special 606 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: and awesome and wonderful our kids are. But what can 607 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: we do as we are sort of supporting kids through 608 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: this process that ultimately they have to do, right, I 609 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: mean it's we're not the ones on novice applying for them. 610 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: They need to be there doing it and thinking about 611 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: all of it and managing the process. So what should 612 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: we be doing? Yeah, to be supportive but not too 613 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: in it. 614 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, I think overall support and encouragement. Like 615 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 4: with my own child, I'll tell her, oh my gosh, 616 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 4: like I could see you as a great coach one 617 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 4: day because she asks really great questions and I'm like, 618 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 4: you've got great emotional intelligence. So whatever strengths you see, 619 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 4: calling that out and just like encouraging them, I would 620 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 4: say that's probably the primary thing. Maybe giving them a 621 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 4: gentle nudge to get them out of their comfort zones. 622 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 4: But I'm sure that as high schoolers that gets harder. 623 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 4: I would say that there are parents that hire out. 624 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 4: That's why people bring in someone like me. So I'm 625 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 4: sure two people can say the same thing, but if 626 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 4: your parent says it, you're not going to listen. 627 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 3: But if like a partial, impartial. 628 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 4: Like third person gives you an assignment to go talk 629 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 4: to people, you're going to do it, right, And so 630 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 4: that's where I think, to like alleviate family tension at times, 631 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 4: it could be beneficial to bring in a third person. 632 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 4: But yeah, I think and also modeling in your own life, 633 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 4: like you and Sarah are such self starters and you 634 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 4: guys have created this amazing community and all that kind 635 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 4: of stuff. Your kids are going to absorb that. So 636 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 4: just focusing on yourself as well. 637 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: And what if the kid is really feeling a lot 638 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: of stress about it, because I'm sure it is a 639 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: stressful process. I mean, you're figuring out at least some 640 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: chunk of your future. But from the perspective of being 641 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: an adult, you could say, well, it's not your entire future, right, 642 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: so sure, what can we do to maybe even lower 643 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: the tension level a little bit? 644 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I totally agree, and that's why I think it's 645 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 4: this focus on life skills and telling your students what 646 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 4: your philosophy and outlook on life is, introducing them to 647 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 4: various people who have done various things, and I just 648 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 4: tell stories to my kids a lot of like, oh, 649 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 4: this person didn't go to college, and look they did 650 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 4: this amazing thing, right, And so I think just emphasizing 651 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 4: your own philosophy awesome. 652 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: Well, we always end with a love of the week, 653 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: so this is something that we are enjoying right now. 654 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,959 Speaker 1: So I was gonna throw out there. We're recording this 655 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: in summer. This is running a little bit closer toward 656 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: back to school season. But I've really been enjoying riding 657 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: my bike. This is especially I mean I always like 658 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: to take some sort of active break in the middle 659 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: of the day, and when it's blazing hot outside, running 660 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,239 Speaker 1: has zero appeal whatsoever. So I have to if I'm 661 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: going to run, it's got to be in the morning. 662 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: But then, well, what do I do to take a 663 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: break in the afternoon. So I have been hauling my 664 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: bike out and the good news is it can fit 665 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: in the back of my car without my dealing with 666 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: the bike rack stuff if I just put the seats down. 667 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: So if I have to take anyone with me, then 668 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: the bike racks coming out. But if it's just me, 669 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: I can stick it in my car, drive somewhere, bike 670 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: for thirty forty minutes, come back and you know, it's 671 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: been an hour long break. And I don't do it 672 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: every day, of course, but once or twice a week 673 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: has been a really nice thing to add to my 674 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: life this summer. 675 00:33:58,320 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 3: That's awesome. 676 00:33:59,320 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: How about you? 677 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 4: El, Yeah, well, yesterday I felt like I needed a break, 678 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 4: so I went to the beach. It's about five minutes 679 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 4: from my house look, and it was so great. I 680 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 4: just sat there, I smelled the salty air. I pulled 681 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 4: out some watercolors, did a little painting. I am not 682 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 4: an artist, but it's just really fun to put brush 683 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 4: to paper and it was definitely the highlight of my 684 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 4: day and maybe my week. 685 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: Awesome. Awesome, Well, I love that you just doing something 686 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: just for fun right too. It has nothing to do 687 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: with your career or nothing to do with like you're 688 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: trying to be known for it or anything. But that's 689 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: probably a good thing to model to children as well 690 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: to our adolescence that you know we do stuff just 691 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: because we want to do stuff, absolutely absolutely. All right, Well, Alice, 692 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,359 Speaker 1: why don't you let our listeners know where they can 693 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: find you. 694 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 3: Yeah. 695 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,359 Speaker 4: So, I have a website called Brightstory dot info. And 696 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 4: I also have another blog that I write on which 697 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 4: actually has some of the principles of bright Story. It's 698 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 4: called Happy Asian Woman and it's on Happy Asianwoman dot 699 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,760 Speaker 4: substack dot com. 700 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 3: And that's just. 701 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 4: Helping people find more joy and meaningful and purposeful lives. 702 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 4: And I like to incorporate those principles into my coaching, 703 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 4: so as I'm figuring out it out on my own, 704 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 4: I try to bring it into my work, so they 705 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 4: kind of work together. 706 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us. 707 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. 708 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 3: Thank you, Laura. 709 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: Well we are back. That was a great interview with 710 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: Alice Chen talking all things college admissions and the life 711 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: skills that kids are also developing as they become young 712 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: adults through that transition of the last year or so 713 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: of high school. So, Sarah question, what are you doing 714 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 1: about saving for college and do you plan to pay 715 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: for your kids to go to college. 716 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 2: Yes, we plan to cover our kids undergraduate college don't 717 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 2: know about grad school because the feasibility of that could 718 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,919 Speaker 2: get you know, multiplying times three could be a lot. 719 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 2: And by that point they are adults, so that might 720 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 2: be more or of like we can offer help, but 721 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 2: for undergraduate we definitely do want to cover those expenses. 722 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: And so we do two things. 723 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 4: We do. 724 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 2: Florida, as a lot of states, have actually five twenty nine, 725 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 2: but they also have something called the prepaid program, where 726 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 2: like since the kids have been little, we paid like 727 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,479 Speaker 2: these little monthly installments. It's like a couple hundred dollars 728 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 2: per kid that by the time they turn eighteen is 729 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 2: actually like the full cost of going to any state 730 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 2: University of Florida school. 731 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: Like it's done, you're done. 732 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 2: So of course if they don't go to one of 733 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 2: those schools, you get whatever they're charging I think for 734 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 2: tuition towards whatever other schools. So you're not going to 735 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 2: throw it out the window no matter what. But pretty 736 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 2: cool thing, and I think, you know, there's at least 737 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 2: some chance that somebody will go to a Florida school, 738 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 2: so that's great. And then we also do five twenty nine. 739 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 2: In addition, we really didn't start on that as early 740 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 2: as we probably should have, probably around twenty twenty when 741 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 2: it was like, oh, money is accumulating a little more, 742 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 2: what should we do with it? But we stuck with it, 743 00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 2: and we do it as an auto draft for each kid. 744 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 2: We do a little bit more for the older kids 745 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 2: because Genevieve has a longer runway. Will we have the 746 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 2: entire amount of like a private college by the time 747 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,959 Speaker 2: they hit college. No, but I think we'll have enough 748 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 2: of a dent that cash flowing the rest would be fine. 749 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 2: And then if any of them do end up going 750 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 2: to like a public college, then actually we would you know, 751 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 2: that would be money they could use for any kind 752 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 2: of graduate education as well. 753 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is very important for me to pay for 754 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 1: my kids to go wherever they would like to go. 755 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: That is something that has I've wanted to do since 756 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: having kids, and so, yes, that is what we will 757 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: be doing. And to that end, saved money from when 758 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: they were born in college funds for them and so 759 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: got a long time still to go with Henry, but 760 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: Jasper is about ready to go and that money should 761 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: mostly cover it. And obviously you can cash flow whatever 762 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: it doesn't but yeah, it's it's it's pricey, but I 763 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: don't know. I guess I feel like it's really hard 764 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,919 Speaker 1: starting adult life with a lot of loans. And it's 765 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: one thing if you're going into profession you know, is 766 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,760 Speaker 1: high paid, like you're taking out loans for medical school 767 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: or something like that. But with undergraduate I think it's 768 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: a little bit more uncertain, and then that even can 769 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: affect what you wind up doing. I mean, you might 770 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: not wind up going to a professional school because you 771 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: have to start paying back these loans, and even if 772 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: you can defer them, it just feels like a big 773 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: load on top of you. So if I have the 774 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: ability to not have my kids have to do that, 775 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: then that's what we've been doing to jobs for you know, 776 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: like my husband and me both working. One of the 777 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: upsides of being a two income family is being able 778 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: to hopefully make some choices like that. So I don't know. 779 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I know some families there's in the whole 780 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: frugal living community that you know, oh, we don't have 781 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: to pay for kids college because it's good for them 782 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: to work and learn how to do it. I'm like, well, 783 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, you can't really cover that much money working. 784 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: It's not like when people could get a job over 785 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 1: the summer and pay for the year's tuition. I mean 786 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,479 Speaker 1: it's almost impossible for a kid to do that now. 787 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there are some pretty awesome pathways to 788 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 2: very affordable public education in our state. I got to say, 789 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 2: And I think that that's wonderful because we need families 790 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 2: who don't necessarily have great incomes to have their kids 791 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 2: be able to get an awesome start. But I also 792 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 2: feel like if I have the money and I currently 793 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 2: we're working for that, like, I don't know what else 794 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 2: I'd want to spend it on. More Like, to me, 795 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 2: this is like very high on my list of like 796 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 2: of my priorities. It's really way way up there. And 797 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 2: I will say my parents, who didn't have super high incomes, 798 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 2: they covered all of my expensive private college and I'm 799 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 2: really really grateful for that because I loved my experience 800 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 2: there and I don't think that was super easy for them. 801 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 2: But they must have been very much like slow and 802 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 2: steady put it away, because I didn't ever actually hear anything, 803 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 2: like you know, it didn't seem like it was hard, 804 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 2: even though like doing the numbers, I'm sure it wasn't. 805 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 2: It wasn't negligible, So thanks parents exactly exactly. 806 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: You know, I was very glad to not start my 807 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,919 Speaker 1: adult life with loans as well. So, but obviously there 808 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: are ways to do college cheaper. I mean, my husband 809 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: went to a state school on a full ride. There 810 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: may be fewer of those now, but it was it 811 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: was an option for him back in the day. But again, 812 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: it's like, there are ways to do it if you can't, 813 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: but if you can, we both feel like that's something 814 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,800 Speaker 1: we really want to do for our kids, and that's 815 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: top of our financial goals. So yeah, there you go. 816 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds. 817 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: I've been interviewing Alice Chen about college admissions and life 818 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: skills that kids learn in the process of applying. We 819 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: will be back next week with more on making work 820 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: and life fit together. Thanks for listening. 821 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 2: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 822 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 2: or at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you. 823 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 1: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This 824 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 1: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join 825 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: us next time for more on making work and life 826 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: work together.