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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from house Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh.

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Speaker 1: That's Chuck, and this is stuff you should know. We're

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Speaker 1: about to tell you some stuff you should know, aren't

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Speaker 1: we Chucked? We are? You never intro our title like that.

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Speaker 1: I like that it's new. I tried it before. I

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Speaker 1: know that you like it, which is inst I loved

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Speaker 1: it to the late and browse you. Yeah, moving on, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of a guy named Phillip Kate? Dad? Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: he's an author. Correct, Yes, he wrote Blade Runner? Correct well,

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Speaker 1: I do Android's Dream of Electric Cheap right, which was

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Speaker 1: made into Blade Runner, exactly. And he wrote a Minority

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Speaker 1: Report and um, a Scanner Darkly some other ones I

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Speaker 1: have heard of good stuff. Um. And if you can't

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Speaker 1: tell yet, he was a science fiction writer. Um. But

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Speaker 1: one of the more notable things of Dick's life with

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Speaker 1: the more, one of the more notable aspects of Dick's

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Speaker 1: life was that, um, at one point he became possessed

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Speaker 1: by a being, another intelligence. He called it like a

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Speaker 1: super alien or something like that. And uh, it basically

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Speaker 1: took him over and got his life in order. He

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Speaker 1: was a total pill head, loved drink wine, really just

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Speaker 1: kind of chased friends off. He just wasn't a really

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Speaker 1: pleasant soul to be around. And this alien kind of

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Speaker 1: comes in and takes him over, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: he's like getting you know, back pay from publishers. He's

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Speaker 1: like writing more. He his office is cleaner. I think

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Speaker 1: he started wearing ties and just all around. Basically, this

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Speaker 1: thing got his life in order. And he wasn't scientology

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Speaker 1: or anything no interesting. As a matter of fact, I

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Speaker 1: think he may have been a critic of scientology. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure. Um, but he uh, he was possessed. He

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Speaker 1: he believed it till the day he died, that something

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Speaker 1: had taken him over and at the very least was

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Speaker 1: helping him. I've never heard that. Yes, so um, that

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Speaker 1: kind of I think is a really good segue into exorcism. Right,

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Speaker 1: this is an exorcism that actually benefited somebody. Well, he

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Speaker 1: was an exercise and I don't think he needed to

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Speaker 1: sure sure now, um, you know, I think for the

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Speaker 1: most part, when people feel like we're inhabited by something,

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Speaker 1: we feel like it needs to be exercise, right right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the demons running through yet exactly. So, Um, we kind

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Speaker 1: of in in the Western world in the twenty one century,

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Speaker 1: we don't really believe in spirit intrusion much anymore. Right,

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Speaker 1: some of us do, some do, true, but for the

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Speaker 1: most part, the average American walking around probably doesn't believe

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Speaker 1: that they're going to ever be, you know, taken over

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Speaker 1: by a demon or something like that, or even an

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Speaker 1: angel probably, um, but this isn't the case for much

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Speaker 1: of the rest of the world. It's very commonly held

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Speaker 1: spirit intrusion can occur. I remember when we were talking

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Speaker 1: about carrying a bride over the threshold. Spirit intrusion. It

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Speaker 1: can be a bad thing. It can cause disease, illness,

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Speaker 1: and um. It kind of makes you wonder. There's this

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Speaker 1: dividing line that crops up. Is this really just a

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Speaker 1: misunderstanding of a psychological problem or is psychology missing the

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Speaker 1: point when there actually is something going on right at ending?

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of uh, demonic possessions are really

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Speaker 1: people that are psychologically distressed or sometimes even physically and

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Speaker 1: epilepsy and things like that a lot of times are

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Speaker 1: mistaken from parts of the world. Well, with epilepsy in particular,

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Speaker 1: you can you can tell you can throw somebody in

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Speaker 1: an m R I machine and I look at the

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Speaker 1: parts of their brain and see, you know, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: this person is definitely epileptic. Of course, the convulsions often

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Speaker 1: give them away as well. But with you know, UM schizophrenia, say,

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Speaker 1: for many many eons, that was viewed as a spirit

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Speaker 1: intrusion or spirit possession, right, which makes sense. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, these people with associative personality disorder are UM

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Speaker 1: different people at different times, so you can understand how

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Speaker 1: that would be mistaken as a UM possession in the past,

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Speaker 1: I could, sure, But still today I kind of wonder

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Speaker 1: is it just a clash of worldviews? You know? Maybe?

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Speaker 1: So is is a psychological disorder just another term for

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Speaker 1: spirit possession when they're really both talking about the same

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Speaker 1: thing and doesn't matter? So interesting angle, Thanks buddy. So

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Speaker 1: the point is this, UM psychology has its own methods

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Speaker 1: of exorcism and in deepressants UM psychotherapy. Yes, uh e

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Speaker 1: c T. Electro convulsive therapy, which is still used to

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Speaker 1: this day. Did you know that? I didn't. I think

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Speaker 1: we have the method refined a little more than we

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Speaker 1: used to write, but yeah, it's still they still hook

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Speaker 1: people up at the electrodes and choose them. Actually I

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Speaker 1: did know that because it happened on six ft under

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Speaker 1: and don't tell me, don't tell me. I'm in season three,

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Speaker 1: don't tell me. It definitely does not happen on six

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Speaker 1: ft Thank you, thank you for that. Sorry about that,

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Speaker 1: no problem. But um, so we've got this method of

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Speaker 1: dealing with disturbance, um through psychology. We also have it

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Speaker 1: through spirituality, and specifically the Catholic Church is really really

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Speaker 1: big on exorcism. There the only church that I know

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Speaker 1: of it really still practices it. And yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: raised Catholic, and and as you get older, every you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're raised in the Catholic Church, everything seems totally normal.

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Speaker 1: This guy is wearing a robe and chanting and burning frankincense,

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Speaker 1: and everybody else you know is responding with you know,

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Speaker 1: some weird you know, mystical words. Right. The thing is

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Speaker 1: is like, as you get older, it becomes stranger and

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Speaker 1: stranger because, as any Catholic knows, the older you get,

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Speaker 1: the further you get away from the church. Right, Um

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Speaker 1: so you get a little more objective, you get an

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Speaker 1: objective view of it. I think that's not necessarily true

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Speaker 1: for all people, but certainly. Uh so. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you look at the Catholic Church objectively or Catholicism, it's

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Speaker 1: deeply rooted in mysticism. And it doesn't strike me as

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Speaker 1: odd at all that the Catholic Church is still very

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Speaker 1: much believes in exorcism, in demonic possession. Yeah, I believe it.

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Speaker 1: Which we should probably give an actual definition of demonic

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Speaker 1: possession as the Catholic Church sees it. Uh, while possession

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Speaker 1: or exorcism possession. Uh well, I know some of the

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Speaker 1: telltale signs. Yeah, let's hear about um. Speaking in tongues

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Speaker 1: a lot of times is considered no, no, pardon no, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not considered part of a demonic Speaking in tongues

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Speaker 1: is considered a an expression of religious ecstasy. Speaking in

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Speaker 1: foreign languages that one's never encountered, or dead languages. That's

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Speaker 1: that's an example. I actually said. I actually said speaking

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Speaker 1: in foreign tongues. I just said it very quietly. The

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Speaker 1: foreign was the foreign? Was it? Silent um? That is true? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Knowing things that a person has no way of knowing. Yeah, Like, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, with the pope's wearing at any given time,

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Speaker 1: I bet he's wearing a robe and a tall hat.

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Speaker 1: That's what I underneath the robe, if you can call that.

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Speaker 1: I imagine they're gonna be like, yeah, I know, too

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Speaker 1: much physical strength beyond what you normally would have, which

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Speaker 1: we've addressed as well, right, and a violent aversion to God,

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Speaker 1: the Virgin Mary or across or other you know religious images. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that's you know, pretty much it. If you can

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Speaker 1: fit all these, then you know there's a chance that

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Speaker 1: you are possessed by the devil as far as the

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Speaker 1: church is concerned. I didn't see in here headspinning around

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Speaker 1: or vomiting p soup or the spider crawl. No, And

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Speaker 1: of course Chuck's referring to the classic horror film The

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Speaker 1: exor System, which I watched actually this past Halloween. Not

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Speaker 1: as scary as I remember, but psychologically thrilling. Yeah. Great.

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Speaker 1: And um after researching this, I found that if you

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Speaker 1: take Linda Blair out of the scenes, yes, uh, and

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Speaker 1: you just have the exorcism the rights of exorcism that

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Speaker 1: are performed by um Max von Sideau and the other guy.

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Speaker 1: Um it is it's very accurate. Uh, it's It's pretty

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Speaker 1: much the opposite of the website Garfield minus Garfield, where

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Speaker 1: if you take Garfield out. It turns out that John

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Speaker 1: is either schizophrenic or addicted to methamphetamine, or possessed by

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Speaker 1: the devil. Possibly full circle. Yeah, so it's UM's it's

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Speaker 1: the it's the opposite of that. It really a Catholic

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Speaker 1: exorcism or right of exorcism is a series of special prayers,

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Speaker 1: and actually it's a combination of fairly familiar prayers. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of call and response. Um. There's dousing the

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Speaker 1: possessed individual with holy water, using crucifixes and relics, which

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Speaker 1: can be anything anything associated with the saint, including a

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Speaker 1: body part. There's actually the saints, if you were a

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Speaker 1: saint several hundred years ago, you were destined to be

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Speaker 1: chopped up into as many little pieces as possible, instaid

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Speaker 1: to churches around the world. Yeah, relic are huge. Interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well there, you didn't know that either. Well, before this

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Speaker 1: all happens, there's an investigation. I mean, this is when

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Speaker 1: there's a real threat of a possession, you can actually

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Speaker 1: lodge an uh A query to the Catholic Church and

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Speaker 1: they'll send someone out. A lot of times that priests

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Speaker 1: will come with um a psychological evaluator just to rule

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Speaker 1: out other things. Sometimes I'll go to a medical doctor,

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Speaker 1: but they actually do a full fledged investigation, and they said,

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Speaker 1: I think one in five thousand turns out to be

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Speaker 1: what they consider to be a real demonic possession or

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Speaker 1: at the very least worth worth using an exorcism, for

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Speaker 1: worth giving a shot. Yeah, I didn't want you to

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Speaker 1: to get the impression that I think that the church's

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Speaker 1: approach to exorcism it's hokey in anyway. I think they

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Speaker 1: take a very methodical approach they do, and they rule

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Speaker 1: out everything else that it could possibly be. Um. I

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Speaker 1: think if you decide to perpetrate a fraud, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you're you're possessed by the devil, you're in for

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Speaker 1: a really long, painful evaluation process where you really have

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Speaker 1: to be committed to the bit to follow it through

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Speaker 1: and finally get to the exorcism. And if you're basing

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Speaker 1: it on movies, you'll probably be really disappointed. Um. There's

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Speaker 1: this book that this guy wrote. I cannot remember his

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Speaker 1: name or the name of the book, but um, he

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Speaker 1: was a sociologist who who you know, basically went to

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Speaker 1: exorcisms performed around the country for several years during his

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Speaker 1: research period, and he describes one where a guy named

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Speaker 1: Warren who is basically depressed, drinks a lot. Really his

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Speaker 1: life is pretty out of sorts um, and he's come

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Speaker 1: to believe that he's he's possessed by a diabolical presence

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Speaker 1: I think is the the church vernacular for it um.

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Speaker 1: And basically the priest just praised for him um. And

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Speaker 1: you know, there's the Holy water and the crucifix and

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Speaker 1: all that, and Warren just kind of sits there looking

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Speaker 1: a little gloomy the whole time. And then that's about that.

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Speaker 1: And apparently in the book, Warren reported feeling like something

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Speaker 1: had left him, which is good. It's a good things.

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Speaker 1: He said, he felt fine, but it was a fairly

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Speaker 1: anticlimactic spinning or anything. I had that book title. If

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Speaker 1: people want to read, it's called American Exorcism Expelling Demons

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Speaker 1: in the Land of Plenty by Michael uh c u

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Speaker 1: n Eo quin Kuno. Let's go with Cuno catch Cary

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Speaker 1: cascari um. So yeah, they're they're kind of anticlimactic, right,

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Speaker 1: But if if at the end people like Warren feel

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Speaker 1: like that their their life has changed, that you know,

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Speaker 1: if it's if it's just using their faith to maybe

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Speaker 1: manipulate them, even even if there's no intentional manipulation. But

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Speaker 1: if that's really what's going on in the most objective view,

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Speaker 1: how could how could it hurt? You know? Why why

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Speaker 1: don't we just run around performing exorcisms all the time?

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Speaker 1: I have an answer for you, playing on me sort of,

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Speaker 1: because there aren't enough priests relate to go around that

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Speaker 1: are they're capable of doing this. The Catholic Church actually

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Speaker 1: UM appointed ten priest and I think that was already

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Speaker 1: previously one the only guy doing exorcism, So there's now

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Speaker 1: eleven UM at that time at least, and they have

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Speaker 1: a group called the International Association of Exorcists. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: meet every year formaly newsletter. Do you know what I

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Speaker 1: would do to get my hands on that newsletter? Apparently

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Speaker 1: they shared tricks of the trade, tips for one another franccisms. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would love to get my hands on that, right,

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Speaker 1: I'd love to sit on one of those meetings. But

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of a lot of fun, it is,

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Speaker 1: you know, the the that's one reason why, you know,

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Speaker 1: we just don't have or the Catholic Church just doesn't

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Speaker 1: have the manpower to go around performing exorcism, right, um.

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Speaker 1: But also there's there's a couple other problems with exorcism

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Speaker 1: as far as you know controversy generated by them. One

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Speaker 1: is what we've talked about, the the psychology versus religion clash,

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Speaker 1: which has been going on pretty much since medicine came about,

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Speaker 1: um and basically labeled everybody else's witches or you know,

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Speaker 1: at the very least um simple or what have you,

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Speaker 1: archaic primitive. And that's one problem. If if we just

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Speaker 1: ran around performing exorcisms, uh, and there were people who

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Speaker 1: had very treatable psychological disorders, you know, would the exorcism

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Speaker 1: for work or would would pharmaceuticals be better some sort

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Speaker 1: of you know, immersive therapy be better for him? Um,

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Speaker 1: So we could actually do damage, which is why the

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Speaker 1: church i imagine has a psychle logical evaluations done. And

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Speaker 1: these are done by professionals from my understanding as well,

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Speaker 1: It's not like the priest is like, hey, are you crazy? Right,

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Speaker 1: they get a psychiatrist or psychologist outside of the Catholic Church.

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Speaker 1: The the other problem is the there there are groups

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Speaker 1: that that do exorcisms for profit. Yeah, and this is

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Speaker 1: where it gets a little Uh, I don't know, greedy,

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Speaker 1: possibly fake. Maybe there's one. There's one group, um that

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Speaker 1: is well known for their exorcisms. There's a guy named

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Speaker 1: Bob Larson, Bob Larson Ministries. He actually has a show

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Speaker 1: called The Real Exorcist on the Sci Fi Channel. Um,

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Speaker 1: that should be your first clue right there, exactly he Um.

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Speaker 1: He runs the Spiritual Freedom Church as far as I know, UM,

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Speaker 1: and he does exorcisms. I don't know that he actually

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Speaker 1: charges for exorcisms, but I think he's he's really good

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Speaker 1: at um drumming up donations. Well yeah, and he and

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Speaker 1: he does this in front of a crowd and charges

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Speaker 1: for tickets. Does he really? Yeah, because apparently you can

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Speaker 1: get a family rate on your tickets to go see

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Speaker 1: these exorcisms. Okay, gives you a break if you bring

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Speaker 1: the kids along. Well, I was. I was reading on

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Speaker 1: the Spiritual Freedom Church website a testimonial from a girl

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Speaker 1: from named Autumn, from my dear esteemed hometown of Toledo, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: Let's hear it. Apparently the spirit spirit for Spiritual Freedom

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Speaker 1: Church rolled through town and held a mass you know,

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Speaker 1: exorcism or whatever spectacle, and Um, Autumn, it turned out,

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Speaker 1: had been possessed by a several centuries old African woman,

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Speaker 1: uh named Mushita. Now Mushita apparently means horror and whatever

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Speaker 1: ancient African vernacular this that her name comes from. And um,

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Speaker 1: she basically was pretty much into committing acts of hordem

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Speaker 1: in you know, uh, reverence for an African deity. So

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Speaker 1: she became promiscuous. Yes, it was really Mushida, but it

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Speaker 1: was it was Autumn who was running around committing acts

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Speaker 1: of hord um. This is not my word, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I actually didn't realize hordam was a word until this

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Speaker 1: is very afternoon. Is that her right there? That's her.

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Speaker 1: She's a kind of cute. Yeah. So, um, Autumn goes

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Speaker 1: to see Bob Larson, who exercises the the demons, and

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Speaker 1: apparently you could see a an immediate change in Autumn

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Speaker 1: and she was very grateful. So again we we come

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Speaker 1: to this this fine line. As far as I'm concerned,

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Speaker 1: if Autumn is no longer running around being promiscuous, as

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Speaker 1: you said, she no longer feels like she's out of

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Speaker 1: control with her life, does it matter whether it was

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Speaker 1: an exorcism or antidepressants, whether she paid for this or not.

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Speaker 1: I come to Jesus moment and a seeing of the light.

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Speaker 1: Does it matter? Now, there's all kinds of ways of

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Speaker 1: reaching that moment of clarity. I agree, if you ask me,

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Speaker 1: I agree. So uh, as far as I'm concerned to

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Speaker 1: each his own sure, that's our motto here. You want

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Speaker 1: to pay, Yeah, it pretty much keeps us out of

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Speaker 1: hot water. So if you want to pay for your exorcism,

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Speaker 1: there's plenty of places you can do it. Just go

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Speaker 1: on to a Google search, and I believe you type

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Speaker 1: in exorcists and you will find what you're looking for

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Speaker 1: and good luck. So stick around because we have a

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Speaker 1: new bit here. We like to fill up time as

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Speaker 1: much as possible. We're gonna call it correction time. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's a good title. It's coming up right now. Um So, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: we have a correction from one of our listeners. Right,

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Speaker 1: This was in from a couple of our podcasts. We

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Speaker 1: mentioned this famous study in Massachusetts. Let's go to a

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Speaker 1: clip of Chuck being wrong. So what they've learned is

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Speaker 1: that there was this big study. I now that you

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Speaker 1: love to study, the Farmington heart study. I love this study.

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Speaker 1: It's enormous, it's sweeping. This is what a study should

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Speaker 1: be like right, So that's that's me and that's my voice.

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Speaker 1: And it is not Armington's. No, it is actually Framingham

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Speaker 1: not even there's no ton involved, there's no farm. It

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Speaker 1: is a frame. And this is pointed out by one

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Speaker 1: of our listeners, Glenna Carpenter Rhodius in thank you Glenna

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Speaker 1: for pointing that out. Yes, Glen warn yourself a new

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Speaker 1: Ford focus actually pointing it out. Yeah. So if you

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Speaker 1: want to point out something that we've done wrong or

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Speaker 1: tell us how much you like us or hate us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm more like us though, Okay, And you can send

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Speaker 1: an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot

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Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

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Speaker 1: Is that how stuff works dot com