1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: want you to know. If you are listening to this 10 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: show in the United States, then there's a surprising possibility 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: that this story affects you directly in ways that you 12 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: may not fully understand. Here's what happened, folks. In a 13 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: previous Listener Male segment, Matt, Noel and I touched on 14 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: the concept of mysterious people and communities in North America 15 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: and specifically in what would later become the United States. 16 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 1: These groups today in the world of academia are known 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: as tri racial isolates. Historically, they've been the subject of 18 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: extensive speculation, racism, rumor mongering, and even allegations of conspiracy. 19 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: So today we are diving deep into the fact, fiction, folklore, 20 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: and fantasy surrounding these groups were exploring their mysterious origins, 21 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: and we're pulling back the curtain of history to see 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: whether we can finally determine the truth amid all these 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: at times bizarre tall tales. Full disclosure, I am a 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: descendant of one of the groups. We're going to spend 25 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: a lot of time on the community known as the Malungeons. 26 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: I will try and no doubt fail not to be biased. 27 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: Here are the facts. So first, we're gonna travel to 28 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: the eastern seaboard of these old United States. And while 29 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: we're there, that's one of the reasons why we're going 30 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: there is because this phrase that you may hear, try 31 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: racial isolate it UH, for a long time referred to 32 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: a very specific group of people, the one that Ben 33 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: just mentioned, the Lungeon's. And there's well, there's a reason 34 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: for that. We're gonna learn about it. A try racial 35 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: isolate is a term for a community of individuals whose 36 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: ancestry is some mixture of various things, UM, including African, 37 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: Native American, European UH and other I mean various other sources. 38 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: And it's it's almost always three, right, That's why you 39 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: get try racial isolate, pretty simple. Yeah, And then The 40 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: isolate part comes from the fact that a lot of 41 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: these groups essentially self segregated. UM. They existed in small 42 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: communities that tended to enter mary Um only with other 43 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: members of their community. And Ben, you point out that 44 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: they kind of didn't really get out much. There's a 45 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: lot of good reasons for that. Yeah. Yeah, Oh, and 46 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: we should also mention, just for anybody who has seen 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: this as a video clip on YouTube or some other source, 48 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: I agree, it's kind of dumb to wear sunglasses inside, 49 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: but I just had I just had a surgical procedure, 50 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: so I I have to wear these part of and 51 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: no map. Part of the reason I'm wearing these is 52 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: so you don't have to look at what's going on 53 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: under here for a few days. Then it's not going 54 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: to tell you is that he just got his cybernetic 55 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: eyes installed. And uh, it's all good. They're gonna be 56 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: awesome though, or as they call in the crypto community, 57 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: laser eyes. And I was gonna say, then, are you 58 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: sure you didn't you're not wearing your sunglasses inside so 59 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: we can watch you weave then breathe your storylines, right, 60 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: because you could probably see the screen reflected here. Uh yeah, 61 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: hopefully this is a temporary thing. But that's that's what's 62 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: going on. But just wanted to point that's the lyric 63 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: and I wear my sunglasses at night by Corey Heart 64 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: that most people think sounds like gibberish, and honestly it 65 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense, 66 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: But he apparently wears his sunglass at night. So we 67 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: can watch you weave then breathe your storylines. You know, 68 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: it's funny you mentioned that I was listening to that 69 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: song earlier today, so it's yeah, it's hits different at 70 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: least this afternoon. But you're absolutely rich. Noal. The isolation 71 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: part is key here. A lot of these communities began 72 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: by design in isolated, somewhat inaccessible areas. You know, these 73 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: were not areas with the best farmland. These were not 74 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: areas with the best fishing or access to other towns. 75 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: They were places that would be difficult to find unless 76 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: you knew what you were looking for and how to 77 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: get there. Melungeons are one of the most well known 78 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: examples of these tri racial isolates, but they are far 79 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: from the only examples. You may have been more likely 80 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: to hear of a community known as the Lumby may 81 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: have also heard of the brass Ankles or people who 82 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: are simply referred to as the Turks. All in all, 83 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: they're believed to be somewhere around two hundred different groups 84 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: or communities qualified as tri racial isolates, and they're mainly 85 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: in the eastern and southern United States. It's a it's 86 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:28,239 Speaker 1: a relatively distinct phenomenon in this country for centuries. You 87 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: you may not have heard of most of these groups, 88 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: by the way, but for centuries these groups were exotic size, 89 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: and they were considered mysterious or even in some cases, 90 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: capable of supernatural feats. What do we mean by that? 91 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: We mean stuff like magically stopping bleeding, or being able 92 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: to uh draw somehow an illness out of somebody, or 93 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: even being a sin eater been um you know, growing 94 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: up being aware of this part of your history. Is 95 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: this something that your folks told you story is about 96 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: when you were young. Yes, and those stories are more 97 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: prevalent in older populations. So a great aunt would talk 98 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: about this or or something like that. But we have 99 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: to realize, you know, history is closer to the modern 100 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: day than a lot of people assume. Like this is 101 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: a fun fact no one knows how old my grandfather 102 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: lived to be because the records of his birth were 103 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: in a courthouse that burned down. There are a lot 104 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: of burning courthouses at the time as well, So so 105 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: if you look back in your own past, you'll inevitably 106 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: find questions right or unsolved things. And that's going to 107 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: play a role in today's story as well. Uh, you know, 108 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: let's let's stick with the Malungeons, so we know they're 109 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: part of a larger phenomenon. But when we ask ourselves 110 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: about any tri racial isolated whether Malungeon's, LUMBI, what have you, 111 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: one of the first questions that pops up for a 112 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: lot of people, especially their descendants, is well, where where 113 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: did they originate? Here is the legend as I've heard it, Um, 114 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: Matt and Nol have each heard a version of this. Uh, 115 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: probably off air at our favorite local chicken wing spot 116 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: or something like that. So, way way way back in 117 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: the day, once upon a time, somewhere in the sixteen hundreds, 118 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: maybe somewhere in the seventeen hundreds, maybe sometime earlier, the 119 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: first big wave of European colonizers were exploring the Appalachian Mountains, 120 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: meaning that they were they were looking to settle down 121 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: somewhere to find resources, not just passing through. And for 122 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't live in the United States, that's the 123 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: large older Mountain range on the eastern side of the 124 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: United States. Yes, yeah, home to the Appalachian Trail. And 125 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: when these colonizers are, these explorers, whatever you want to 126 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: call them, we're in this area of the world. This 127 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: um what if you look at it on a map, 128 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: you'll see the state of Tennessee has an attenuated tip 129 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: on the right hand side, on the eastern side, and 130 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: that connects with parts of Kentucky, parts of Virginia. Anyway, 131 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: these Europeans, these guys are in there and they stumble 132 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: across this kind of twilight zony. They stumble across this 133 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: bizarre settlement deep and what are known as the hollers 134 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: or the valleys of this area. And the people they 135 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: see surprise them because they have dark skin, like much 136 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: darker than you would expect from say European and the Mediterranean. 137 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: They have some of them have blue eyes, which is weird. 138 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: Their hair is straight, their noses are identical to those 139 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: of those European explorers are similar enough. And these folks 140 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: don't live in cabins. They live in long houses, and 141 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: in some versions one version, I like, they speak an 142 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: archaic form of English, like uh, the kind of thing 143 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: that would make you wonder whether these people from a 144 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: different era of time. This is this is funny and 145 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: maybe we maybe we can all play this game together. 146 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: I was told a re enactment of this first contact. 147 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: So the explorers come up, I don't know who wants 148 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: to be an explorer, and they basically say the following 149 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: who hell are you? Uh? What do you mean? Asked 150 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: the people, Well are are you? Are you Indians? Indians? Uh? What? Well, 151 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: what happens if we're If we're Indians, Well you gotta 152 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: get the hell out of here. Oh oh for real? No, no, 153 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: that no, we're not Uh We're not Indian, We're um. 154 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: And they like looked around, They're like, what what else 155 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: do you What else do you got? Yeah? Now I got. 156 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: I would assume the uh explorers laundry listed some other 157 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: like undesirable possibilities, right like, well, you know, you might 158 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: be Portuguese, you might be you might be Jewish, you 159 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: might be Roma, although they would have used the pejorde 160 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: of Gypsy at the time, and they would have name 161 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: some other things. And this game, this sort of cat 162 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: and mouse game, continued for centuries because maluneon people who 163 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: often didn't know their own origin, would change the story. 164 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: They told outsiders whenever it was convenient, so, oh no, 165 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: we're not you know, Native Americans, we're we're actually black. 166 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: Then they came back and they said, hey, did you 167 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: say this earlier thing? And they're like, oh what, No, 168 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: who told you that? I don't believe that guy were 169 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: Roma or whatever. And this was this was a practice, 170 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: this sort of metamorphosis of the lie was a practice 171 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: for aimed at survivals. You would discard a label and 172 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: it became too dangerous, as often did. Yeah, for for 173 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: my money, been the way I'm seeing, it's very similar 174 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: to what we've just said here. But uh, it feels 175 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: like the less they would go with whatever is the 176 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: least dangerous option at any given time, depending on what 177 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: the the colonizer's the the white folks that are coming through, 178 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: we're seeking or seeking to eradicate. Maybe I don't mean, 179 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: it's all really really bad and rife, and it was 180 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: you had to kind of walk on eggshells. Yeah, I 181 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: completely agree. And so Europeans, as every student history knows, 182 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: settle further and further inland. Colonial powers at the time 183 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: make a couple of moves meant to originally stem this, 184 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: like setting up, you know, a British zone of influence 185 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: and drawing a line on a map. But a line 186 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: on a map is not the same thing as a 187 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: physical demarcation. So the Malingan community becomes surrounded by other 188 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: people but still isolated. They're extremely rural, they're extremely impoverished. 189 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: They're also still not of the new country that is 190 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: springing up. They are not part of the United States really, 191 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: and and their to day life doesn't doesn't really change. 192 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: So this is a funny story, this mix up in 193 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: this like, uh, we're Portuguese, l O L. This kind 194 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: of stuff is its hall tail, but it has a 195 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: little bit of fact mixed in. And it's true that 196 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: various authors over time described tri racial isolates like the 197 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: Malngeans as any number of things, usually because they had 198 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: their own kind of badger in the bag here and say, oh, 199 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: they're Portuguese, No weight, says another author. They're actually Turkish. 200 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: No wait, says another author. They're a lost tribe of Israel. 201 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: Hear me out, you know what I mean, and what 202 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: they're descending some mysterious shipwrecks from the ancient era of 203 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: the Phoenicians, Like Phoenicians were legendary sailors, right, so that 204 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: this based entirely on that fact. Some guy was like, oh, yeah, 205 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: I could be there. Phoenicians though, if you think about it, 206 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: those are the ones that were really good at pronouncing words, right, 207 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: just based on the spelling. Yes, yeah, that's them. Uh. 208 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: They are also the inventors of the letter P and 209 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: the letter H. That is shaking his head hard at 210 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: that part of it, my part of it, not your 211 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: factual part, then I would know. That's I think. I 212 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: think all we can agree that is entirely factual at 213 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: least you know that would that would fly for a 214 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: fact in the world of early Malnian communities. And the 215 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: thing is, if you went back in time and you 216 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: told somebody in this area of the world you met 217 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: a you met a Milencheon, and you said you're a Milencheon, 218 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: it would be fighting words. It was a pejorative, it 219 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: was an insult. It was not it was it was 220 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: not cool, you know what I means. It wasn't like 221 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: saying hey, you're an at lantern or something like that. 222 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: It was much closer to racially derogatory term and and 223 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: and similarly to other racially derogatory terms. We know it 224 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: would have eventually go on to become a word used 225 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: to self identify and kind of take back those negative connotations. 226 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 1: But we'll get to that in a bit. Yeah, and 227 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: and first we have to figure out where that word 228 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: comes from, because if you've never heard it before, it 229 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: sounds strange, like is it a native American word? Or 230 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: did some European get really mad at somebody for stealing chickens, 231 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: which happened a lot to happen to my family too. Uh. 232 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: And then did they just get at a loss of Uh? 233 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: Did they get so upset that they were at a 234 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: loss for words? Beat me here, Paul. But were they 235 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: trying to like call someone a motherfucker like you London? 236 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: And then just yeah, two hopped up on the on 237 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: the moonshine and they had slurred a little bit, right, 238 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: let's get all the stereotypes in there. Yes it Uh, 239 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: it's weird because a lot of people tried to guess 240 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: at this phrase, at this etymology, and they found some 241 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: interesting things or interesting ideas, but again none of them 242 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: having conclusively proven. Yeah, and it's because they don't all 243 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: seem to be a perfect fit, right, Like, I think 244 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: the one that makes a lot of sense to me 245 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: is the French word melange, which you might know is 246 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: just like a mixture, like a potpourri, you know, various 247 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: ingredients um that you can you can use that word 248 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: in terms of literature or any other thing, but it 249 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: would also be like maybe culinary um. It also could 250 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: potentially have linguistic roots in the phrase melan can, which 251 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: is a Turkish expression referring to something possessed, you know, 252 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: something not of this earth, a cursed soul perhaps. Yeah, 253 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: that's not a great look. Who are you people where 254 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: the cursed? Yeah? But yeah, but then also you've got 255 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: thrown in there, you know, words that go back or 256 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: words that mean things like eggplant that just sound kind 257 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: of similar with the the melania or melanina. Uh, you know, 258 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: it's a bit strange. It's a bit strange because that 259 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: one in particular would just be referring to quote, dark 260 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: skin on on somebody. Is that does that come from melanin? 261 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: Do you think like or do you think melanin comes 262 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: from that etymologically, the pigment that makes for dark skin. Yeah, 263 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: that's a that's a good question. I know that the 264 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: it comes from Melanine comes from the Greek so melas 265 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: or melan meaning black, right, so it could be a 266 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: common it could be a common phrase there. Uh. And 267 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: we know that there was a pretty diverse mix of 268 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: languages in this in this time period, in this part 269 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: of the world, like the Panopoly native languages that existed, 270 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: and all the languages that immigrants brought over when they 271 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: crossed the Atlantic. The one that was interesting too, I 272 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: think this stood out for you as well. No, was 273 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: the idea that it's how the phrase somehow implied jin 274 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: d g I N and and for anyone who hasn't 275 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: read it yet, either in the title or description of 276 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: this episode, malungeon is spelled m E l u n 277 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: g e o n and the concept of it the 278 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: way it sounds at the very end of that word malungin. 279 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: I can totally see why that what may fit there, 280 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: and also why you may have some beliefs in supernatural 281 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: abilities of somebody who's been labeled this anyone listens to 282 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: the show, I'm sure knows the concept of jin but 283 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: just as a refresher it would be malevolent spirit, you know, 284 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: but also has been kind of incorporated into the idea 285 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: of genies or like wish granting, perhaps more benevolent spirits, 286 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: but usually there's a bit of a monkey's paw bargain 287 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: in those wish scenarios. One of three intelligent life forms 288 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: created by Allah, right, the they're the angels, and then 289 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: there are the humans, and then there are the jin 290 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: You're crafted from smokeless fire. It's a it's a fascinating story. 291 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: And um, there is a wonderful podcast on our network 292 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: of Pure Podcasts which is all about jin which I 293 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 1: believe you ep Matt correct. Yes, it's fantastic. It was 294 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: created with the help of Aaron Makey than Darry made Lore. 295 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: It's called The Hinde Gin. So here we are. We're 296 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: about twenty minutes into the show, and I have been 297 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: somewhat indirectly accused of being Jinny. That's why, you know, 298 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: come on, that's why there's this whole history. It's part 299 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: of the that's so kind you guys. It's um it 300 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: fits with the sunglasses, right, because if you've seen American gods. 301 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: The Gin character in there has to wear sunglasses all 302 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: the time because he has fiery pupils right right. The 303 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: sunglasses off there would be like it would be a 304 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: dead giveaway smoke where zero smoke, smokeless fire, whereas I'm 305 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: much more in a ocular phantom of the opera situations. 306 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: So we'll keep you a little more die elated than fired. Yeah, 307 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,239 Speaker 1: we'll keep this and uh, we'll keep this on for everybody. 308 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: But the thing is, none of these explanations have been proven. 309 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 1: Any of the explanations we just outlined, and none of 310 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: them really answer the question that we posted the top, 311 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: where did the Malengions come from? We're gonna pause for 312 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor and we'll be right back. 313 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Well, the way I always 314 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: learned it is the answer to where the Milenians come 315 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: from is Hancock County, Tennessee, and they're like two other counties, 316 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: And there are a couple of families that are thought 317 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: to be Milencheon. But that's not that that's not really 318 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: what people mean when they ask that question. It's like 319 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 1: if you have if you have grown up in the 320 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: US and you are from a multi racial or mixed family. 321 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: Then one of the dumb questions you have to put 322 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: up with is someone saying where are you from? And 323 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: then you say, okay, I'm from I'm from Los Angeles, bro. 324 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what you want me to tell you. 325 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: It's interesting here though, because I mean, with those kinds 326 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: of questions, you're referring to a very long history. With this, 327 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: you're referring to a handful of families, like you said, 328 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: in a very isolated community. Over it's almost like a 329 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: modern religion, you know, like being a more men or something. 330 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,719 Speaker 1: It's like it's not ancient, it's much more contemporary. And then, 331 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, one of the families, I believe 332 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: it's pronounced Boland, not Boland like your name, but it's 333 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: more of a d sound. There are a couple. So 334 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: the problem there is the illiteracy that was widespread at 335 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: the time. So I'm related, for example, the last name 336 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: bulland I am related to people who spelled it differently 337 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: because they were all kind of freestyling based on how 338 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: they thought the name would look on paper. So there 339 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: are Bulands, there Collins, There are collins is excuse me, 340 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: they're goings. These are names that you'll hear brought up 341 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: pretty often. Uh, And for many many years, at least 342 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: in the case of luncheons, they were, like you said, mant, 343 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: they were considered something old, something from far beyond the 344 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: days of the thirteen Colonies in the United States. And 345 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: that is not entirely inaccurate. Uh, the the idea. The 346 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: thing that gets me is it feels like that that 347 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: first contact legend I heard feels very much like an 348 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: episode of a of a science fiction show, or it 349 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: feels like something you might see at the beginning of 350 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: a horror story and in in there back in the 351 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: day before it was okay to be maluncheon, they were 352 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: often treated like something out of an HP Lovecraft story, 353 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, like something not not entirely human. Now that 354 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: I think about it, I don't know that I've seen 355 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: one walking on a Sunday. I'm pretty sure I saw 356 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: one levitating the other day around back behind the barn. Well. 357 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: I mean it was even worse than that, it was. 358 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: They were used as a as one of these creatures 359 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: like the Dwende. When we talked about those and the 360 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: goblins on that episode where when we talked about some 361 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: of the old witch stories that we brought up on 362 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: that episode as well. They were used as a thing 363 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: to essentially fear when you like, as a folklore fairy 364 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: tale that you would tell your children, perhaps if you 365 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: lived in a surrounding area, um, literally don't go into 366 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: the woods. Female lungeons might get you right like a 367 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: bit of a boogeyman or even like but beyond that, 368 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: more on a sociological level, kind of scapegoats in the 369 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: same way that witches were used to blame, uh, to 370 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: have something to point to when things went badly. Yeah, 371 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: and this is weird because this this stuff, which is 372 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: a an iteration of very very old folklore beliefs common 373 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 1: in common on the African continent, common in Europe. Wherever 374 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: you go, any place that has people will have these 375 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: kind of boogieamen and they have malgis happened to be 376 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: a very easy, like regional flavor for that same fear. 377 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: But at the same time, we see the modern US 378 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: state evolving the modern country of the US. The first 379 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: Tennessee Constitution, which is written way back in sevent gave 380 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: male free people of color the right to vote. A 381 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: lot of folks don't know that, uh, and it it 382 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: didn't last forever because after the rebellion led by Nat 383 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: Turner in eighteen thirty one, Tennessee went back and changed things. 384 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: But that does mean technically, if you want to be 385 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: a lot of fun at parties, you can say the 386 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: Malungeons were some of the first free people of color 387 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: to vote, at which point your friends will stare at 388 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: you blankly and then say, has anybody listened to Donda yet? 389 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: It's pretty okay? Um? Uh? Is that because they could 390 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: pass for white pen in some cases, not not in 391 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: the beginning, and not not for a long time actually, 392 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: but they definitely did not. They didn't look like anyone else, 393 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: you know. This is part of why there was such 394 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: mystery and so much folklore about the community. It wasn't 395 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: entirely kind. You can read a lot of it in 396 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: there's several books out, But I'd just be very careful 397 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: about their credibility because some of those books, especially the 398 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: older ones, will get to why they have their those 399 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: books have problems. But yes, people were accused of witchcraft. 400 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't just don't go out the woods at night, kiddo, 401 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: The Malgans will get you. They didn't really say what 402 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: the male engines would do if they got you, would 403 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: they eat you? Would you have to party with them 404 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: in like a Rip van Winkle kind of style or 405 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: when Yeah, right, maybe they would lock you up in 406 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: they're vast silver mines and or just coffers of silver 407 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: that they had. Perhaps there are riddles involved. Uh, that 408 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: would be great. Uh. This part of the world is 409 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: and remains a place that puts a lot of emphasis 410 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: on on good stories and music and those bits of folklore. 411 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe they would have some riddles. Would the 412 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,719 Speaker 1: riddles make sense? I don't know, Maybe maybe not. But 413 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: the let's get back on the silver hoards. Yes, right, Uh, 414 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: this is something Matt. I don't know how much we 415 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: want to talk about this. We've alluded to it in 416 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 1: the show in the past, and you talked about it. 417 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: We're not gonna say the whole thing. There are legends 418 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: of hidden silver cashes and minds amongst the hills of 419 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: the Appalachia that allegedly someone of Malungeon descent hit there. 420 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: There are tales of this out there, some of which 421 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,479 Speaker 1: have been um A lot more has been made of 422 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: them than maybe is worth. It almost has like Lord 423 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: of the Rings asked qualities to it like the idea 424 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: of like the dwarves and they're like cashes of treasure 425 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: that they hoard like beneath the misty mountain or whatever. 426 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,479 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, this is uh, this these are very 427 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: good points because the idea, I don't know it kind 428 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: of metastasized the way that a lot of a lot 429 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: of these stories do. But the support for this idea, uh, 430 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: would be found in numerous reports that, uh, some non 431 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: legion person knows them Legion person right, their community is 432 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: several miles over or whatever, and one day this person 433 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: who is from a community that is just as poor 434 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,719 Speaker 1: as everybody else. They were not a very they were 435 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: not very many well to do people in that in 436 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: that community. Uh, all of a sudden they show up 437 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: and they've got like silver coins buttons, and that's what 438 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: they're paying for stuff with instead of like ginsing or whatever. 439 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: You know, would have been foraged, and that would have 440 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: been a time where like that kind of trade was acceptable. 441 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: Like there wasn't necessarily you know, um legal tender that 442 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: they were always using. It could have been more on 443 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: barter systems in this rural parts of the country, but 444 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: silver to barter good barter, I usually get a lot 445 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,719 Speaker 1: from the from the general store for like an ancient 446 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: piece of silver. One would think, yeah, and it's also 447 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: a weird flex they could work against you. I mean, 448 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of like going to your local gas station 449 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: and then getting, you know, a cup of coffee for 450 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: what like a dollar thirty five and then paying for 451 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: it with a hundred dollar bill. Sure, it's like when 452 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: they when they tell you if you've done a big 453 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: heist or something, or like done some sort of crime, 454 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: don't go spreading your money around because you're gonna try 455 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: attention to yourself. Don't don't whip out the Bend bucks 456 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: when all you need to pay for some coffee, right right, 457 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: People will be suspicious. And one of the reasons people 458 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: were suspicious about this Silver Mind story or the secret 459 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: Horde of Silver was that there was there were already 460 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: rumors that something like this existed, and they became connected 461 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: to Malungeon's because of that report of someone who was 462 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: expected to be impoverished suddenly seeming to have a lot 463 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: of wealth. Was it due to their infernal powers, or 464 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: was it due to their perceived close friendship with native populations, 465 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: or did they know some kind of like this is 466 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: what people forget. Even back then, and like the seventeen hundreds, 467 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: folks were practicing a kind of belief in ancient hidden history, 468 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like the idea that when 469 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: you hear somebody saying, well, you know, actually the um 470 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: insert group here, you know, they could say, oh, actually, 471 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: you know, the Templars came over way way away before 472 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: your history books want you to know that Europeans visited 473 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: the quote unquote New World. People were saying stuff like 474 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: that back then too, and they and they believed it. 475 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: And but I just want to walk back something I 476 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: said earlier slightly. I mean, I said, how this might 477 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: be looked at as maybe more of a modern thing 478 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: um as opposed to like races that maybe have existed 479 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: for thousands of years. Uh, that's maybe more how he 480 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: would see it today. But the people of the time, 481 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: we're looking at it through a lens of superstition, and 482 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: they were looking at them as like these ancient beings 483 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: almost right, yeah, yeah, exactly. And this is a symptom 484 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: of othering, you know, of saying these people look a 485 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: little too different from us to be you know, maybe 486 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: they look too different to actually be people. So the 487 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: thing is there is a legend of a silver mine 488 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: in that area, and it's an old legend. It's called 489 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: swift Silver Mind, and the the reason it is thought 490 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: to exist is because of the journal of an Englishman 491 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: named Jonathan Swift. He claims that he discovered this mind, 492 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: and the legend goes he was making bank off of 493 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: it until things went wrong. The money got too good. 494 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: He ended up walling it up. He betrayed somebody, or 495 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: was betrayed in turn. He was stricken blind, perhaps by 496 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: an act of God, and unable to return to the mind. 497 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: People still celebrate this. They conjecture over whether it's in 498 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: Tennessee or Virginia. That I believe there's like an annual 499 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: celebration for the mind. There are people who are looking 500 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: for it as we speak. But Jonathan Swift, if you 501 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: if you dig into his story, he's a kaiser SoSE man, 502 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: he's a ghost. This isn't the Jonathan Swift he wrote 503 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: Gulliver's Travels, who maybe was of the same era. But 504 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,959 Speaker 1: it's a very arresting name. I know. I wish it 505 00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: was him, though, that would give us more to go 506 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: wide right. Everybody in Jonathan Swift book is based on 507 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: his encounters in the US. That would be great. Uh, 508 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: But I like to mention authors Noel, because now we're 509 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: going back to the idea that each new author seems 510 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: to be purposely playing the game of telephone, and they're 511 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: playing it on eleven on a scale of one to ten. 512 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: Nobody can just say, Hey, I'm confirming this person's theory, 513 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: and I think this sounds good. Everybody's got to have 514 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: their own thing, you know what I mean. And so 515 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: they add more and more layers to the overall myth. 516 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: And that's where we see some really wild claims start 517 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: to come about. Sure, we have authors like David Beers 518 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: Quinn and ivor Noel Hume who um conjectured that the 519 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: Malungeons were descended from Safardi Jews who fled the Spanish 520 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: acquisition and came to North America as sailors. Um. There's 521 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: also whispers around as time saying that the great explorer 522 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: Francis Drake didn't actually repatriate all of the Turks that 523 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: he saved from the Sack of Cartenia, but in fact 524 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,239 Speaker 1: some came along with him to the colonies. Okay, so 525 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: we got Drake in here, will we see some lungeons 526 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: in the next Uncharted game. Did you guys play Uncharted? 527 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: I did. I didn't finish the most recent one. But 528 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: those are epically great games, all right, So I expect 529 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: a royalty check in the mail, uh if they If 530 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: they do that, I don't think they have to pay. No. 531 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: I don't think so, because then they have to pay 532 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: everybody else, right, I don't think video game companies pay reparations. 533 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: I was looking for royalties well, dream big. Uh. There 534 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: are any number of other suggestions. They're largely from what 535 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: could be described as authors who are running the gamut 536 00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: between self educated to scholarly, between amateur or to UH, 537 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: someone with personal firsthand experience because they have family members 538 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: who told them some of these stories. The first most 539 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: popular theory about the Malugeons was that they were the 540 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: descendants of UH of some Europeans who came over way, 541 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: way away before Europeans officially reached the US, and then 542 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: UH people of the Cherokee nation. This is almost certainly 543 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: false as an origin story. Will see why in a moment. 544 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: If you put all the myths aside, and they're so 545 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: cool and I wish some of them were true, you 546 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: know what I mean? I would love to be able 547 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: to like give people the evil eye or to you know, 548 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: stop someone's bleeding or stopped their heart with just like 549 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: some I don't know, in some weird incantation fingers, the 550 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: poison fingers. I thought that was a Frederick plan. That 551 00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: was a good sound stinger. I just watched the movie 552 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: I think it was on Netflix about that. I felt it. 553 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: I felt a stinging poison fingers as a kung fu movie. Anyway, 554 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: I don't know where you can stop someone's heart by, 555 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: like do do do? Do? Do? Like just tapping on 556 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: their chest like it's a single strike right on the back. Oh, 557 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: and now there's some style on. It is a death blow, 558 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: but it takes a second to kick in. So if 559 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: you put all the myths aside, melungeons did, and in 560 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: some cases still do, look physically distinct from their neighbors 561 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: in this again, this little pocket of Appalachia. And that 562 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: means that regardless of how much they attempted to culturally assimilate, 563 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: going to Christian churches, uh, participating in public works, whatever, 564 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: those physical differences meant. The rumors and the persecution against 565 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: these communities and again other communities like them, other tri 566 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: racial isolates would continue. So over time, malungeons began to 567 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: purposely assimilate on a deeper level. They were attempting to 568 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: marry and interbreed outside of their own communities with existing 569 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: European American populations. And it used to be just you 570 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: know the people that they met. You met someone fell 571 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: in love. You didn't think too much about what social 572 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 1: class or higher argument. But this, this change means that 573 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: they were attempting to escape or hide their origin or identity. 574 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: And again, the origin story was itself a conspiracy. It 575 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: would always change when it was convenient or necessary. So 576 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: you probably haven't heard of these folks before. Try racial 577 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: isolates unless you grow up around one of these communities, 578 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: where you yourself remember one of these communities. And the 579 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: reason you haven't heard a lot of those odd stories 580 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: are first, these are often disadvantaged populations. Secondly, they're often 581 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: very small in number, and third, they don't really fit 582 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: into the kind of cut and dry textbook history of 583 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: the US as taught in school rooms. For a very 584 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: long time, US history was taught in terms of absolutes. 585 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, we're the good guys. These 586 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: dates happened, and this is why this thing is important, 587 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,439 Speaker 1: And we've only got time for one paragraph on this, 588 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,879 Speaker 1: so we're moving on, you know what I mean? And 589 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: this means that amateur researchers didn't have much to go 590 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: on for a long time except disparate clues and records 591 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: and courthouses that didn't burn down oral tradition which has 592 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: a lot of bs in it. Uh. And then while 593 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: they were trying to unravel the mystery, their process eventually 594 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: and inevitably led to two very very big problems. The 595 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: first one we've already kind of discussed here. The tri 596 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: racial isolate groups were often attempting to hide their true 597 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: identity for one reason or another, usually because of persecution 598 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 1: from an outside group. So you know, there all those records, 599 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: if you can't find them, are gonna be kind of 600 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: hidden hidden away amongst other identities, right other, whether it's 601 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: racial and identifying identities or names that are different or changed. 602 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: It's just it's something that's very difficult to pin down. 603 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: I think I'm getting that right, then maybe I'm wrong, 604 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: But it feels as though that's one of the most 605 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 1: difficult things, is that the paperwork becomes muddy. But yeah, 606 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: and think like someone who let's say someone's interviewing in 607 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,240 Speaker 1: person who is melungeon, but they've they've cast it away. 608 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: It's before the nineteen sixties, when when the word became 609 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: okay and became not an insult due primarily to one 610 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: stage play but story for another day. You're trying to 611 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: talk to someone about this because you're researching it, and 612 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: they don't want to talk to you because they're like, 613 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, me and my parents and my grandparents actually 614 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,439 Speaker 1: spent a long time trying to get away from that. 615 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: So if we could keep all our questions to the album, 616 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess they made an album or something. 617 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,720 Speaker 1: But this assimilation continued. People wanted to pass his quote 618 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: unquote white and things like my freckles could be considered 619 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:28,959 Speaker 1: physical proof of this assimilation. But that's that's one. That's 620 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: one problem. That's a very real problem. But we shouldn't 621 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: ignore the second Leviathan of a problem, which isn't Many 622 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,399 Speaker 1: of these researchers had something we talked about pretty often 623 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: on this show. They had heavy confirmation bias. Like let's 624 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: say you're writing a book and you say, you know, 625 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: I heard there was Turkish descent involved, or I being 626 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: a student of Phoenician history. I am certain that the 627 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: lungeon's what we call belungeons today are actually Phoenician, and 628 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: I am going to discover the truth. But I am 629 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: going to prove that this is so. And this means 630 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: that they would, you know, they would cherry pick stuff that, 631 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, that seemed to enforce their narrative or strengthen it. 632 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,919 Speaker 1: But on the flip side, especially people thought they were 633 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: descended from the lungeons. We have to keep in mind, Uh, 634 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: these people have created their own narrative that's very close 635 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: to them, and so they might avoid answers that make 636 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,959 Speaker 1: them uncomfortable. There was literally the stuff they didn't want 637 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: themselves to know about, you know themselves. Right, Yeah, we're 638 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: going to AH and this is where we go to 639 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: the next most recent big turn. I think you can 640 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: see what we're telegraphing here, folks, definitely better than I can. 641 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:50,879 Speaker 1: Fast forward to the advent of commercial DNA technology. This 642 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: now it is possible you can spit into a you 643 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: can swab the inside of your cheek, and you can 644 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: learn all sorts of things about the people who ultimately 645 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 1: lead to you spending time here on Earth. So we 646 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 1: rarely get to say this on our show, but it's official. 647 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: The mystery of the malungeons is solved. The problem is 648 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 1: a ton of people do not like the answer. We'll 649 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: tell you why after word from our sponsor, and we're back. 650 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 1: And I don't know if any of you caught that, 651 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: but Ben through shade at his own eyes while wearing 652 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: shades at night, it was beautiful. Dude. My I'm gonna 653 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: be honest with you, Like, if it looks like I'm crying, 654 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: my eyes are just leaking, I'm not like emotionally potato potato, 655 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: my friend, potato potato. Yeah. Um. So you know, we 656 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: keep using this termal lungeon, and it is a bit 657 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: strange that we're even using it this often in an 658 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: episode of a podcast because it did have such a 659 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: negative connotation for so long. But it turns out this 660 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: word that was a pejorative. It wasn't really based in 661 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 1: science in anyway. Yeah not in neither were many of 662 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:17,800 Speaker 1: the other ones that you mentioned at the top of 663 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: the show. Ben. Um. Those are all in various ways 664 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: and by various people, used as terms of abuse and 665 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 1: often just catch alls for biracial people, you know, when 666 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: where they don't like The people that are slinging these 667 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 1: insults around aren't doing it because they care whether a 668 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: person identifying as melungeon thinks that they're from Portuguese descent. 669 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: They just look at them as this other that looks different, 670 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: and this is a term of abuse, much like the 671 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,799 Speaker 1: term red bone and Cajun kind of culture would be 672 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 1: used as a term for, you know, biracial people, and 673 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 1: that's another term that was taken back by those that 674 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: would identify as such. Also, the word malungeon has the 675 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 1: added disadvantage just being an awkward, clunky word linguistically. You 676 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: know what, why couldn't we be witch breed? That's way cooler, 677 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,800 Speaker 1: But it's no one. No one asked us. But so 678 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: the lungeons back in the day and their modern descendants 679 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: there the first the idea of a scientific term. Here 680 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: is a bit of a moving goal post, because I 681 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: was trying to think about how to say this without 682 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,399 Speaker 1: being defense, without offending anybody. But uh, you know, we're 683 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: big on comic book and fiction analogies here on stuff 684 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. And there is in 685 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: the world of Marvel Universe something called the deviance if 686 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: you're if you're not too familiar with this. They're wrapped 687 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 1: up in the Eternals. You'll see deviants in the upcoming 688 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 1: Marvel movie The Eternals. But the thing about deviance in 689 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 1: the comic book is that in comic book universe is 690 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: that none of them look exactly alike. The main thing 691 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: they have in common is that they are collectively called deviants. Uh. 692 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 1: Luncheon people are not deviants. People in general are not deviance. 693 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: You know, they're all people. But the group described as 694 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: Malungeon's they don't have the same level of genetic homogeneity 695 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: that you would see and say the Han Chinese, right, 696 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,439 Speaker 1: They wouldn't because they are the result of so many 697 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 1: mixtures of people from widespread variety of places across the world. 698 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 1: The odds are pretty high that each family has its 699 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: own unique genetic lineage. So DNA testing was, for the 700 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: first time in history able to conclusively trace the roots 701 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: of some core families that founded what would have become 702 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,399 Speaker 1: known as Malungeon's today or Melungeon Country. And a lot 703 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 1: of people who proudly consider themselves in Malungeon's in East 704 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: Tennessee and Virginia, in parts of Kentucky. Uh, We're dead 705 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: set on seeing their family story proven true. You know, Oh, 706 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 1: we do trace back to some mysterious hinterland of the 707 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: Ottoman Empire. Oh, we are actually the descendants of uh 708 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,839 Speaker 1: some people Francis Drake rescued or we are secretly from 709 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 1: a lost tribe of Israel, etcetera, etcetera. Uh. No, you 710 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: can trace the Malungeons back. It starts in Virginia. It 711 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 1: starts a long time ago in Virginia, like in the 712 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: Wolf fifteen hundreds of Virginia, which deer point noal is 713 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: still comparatively recent. Sure, and and they can trace it 714 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: back to a specific area of Virginia, the Tidewater region 715 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 1: I guess of Virginia. And there are multiple, um pretty 716 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: substantial studies that proved this. Most famously, there was a 717 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: relatively recent Danna study in the Journal of Janet Genealogy. Uh. 718 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: The lead researcher of that study, ROBERTA. Estes, and her team, 719 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: found there was genetic evidence that proves the families historically 720 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,960 Speaker 1: called Melungeon's um are mostly the offspring of sub Saharan 721 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:20,240 Speaker 1: African men and white women of Northern or Central European origin. 722 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,280 Speaker 1: That's the part that kind of pissed some people off 723 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: because I think a lot of folks really hung onto 724 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 1: that Portuguese part of it. Yeah, it's the it's the US. 725 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: There were a lot of people is as terrible as 726 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,759 Speaker 1: is that took this news poorly because they were offended 727 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,439 Speaker 1: by the idea that they could be in any way 728 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,880 Speaker 1: black is that's where they were in life. So it 729 00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,960 Speaker 1: so Stes dealt with this and they they theorized that 730 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: various melungeon lines could have sprung up, Like they said, 731 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: the genetic proof is there from unions of indentured servants, 732 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: black and white, indentured servants who were living in Virginia 733 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,240 Speaker 1: until the mid sixteen hundreds when some very important legal 734 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 1: things happened, and some very unclean legal things. We're talking 735 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 1: about the practice, the widespread practice of chattel slavery. And 736 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 1: they note the researchers note that as laws were put 737 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,360 Speaker 1: into place, uh slowly over a period of time, like 738 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 1: the old adage about boiling frogs, these laws increasingly penalized 739 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,279 Speaker 1: people for doing for practicing what was called mis engeneation, 740 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,719 Speaker 1: which is the big one that that was overturned with 741 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 1: Loving versus West Virginia. Mis engineation. Yeah, the name of 742 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:41,920 Speaker 1: the law though it was like it was something like 743 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: the Racial Purity Act or something really awful sounding like that. 744 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,719 Speaker 1: It's terrible to say that they're they're so many, and 745 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,799 Speaker 1: these were going like colony by colonies, state by state, um. 746 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 1: So the various family groups that existed as their existence 747 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,520 Speaker 1: was being made illegal, it only intermarry with each other. 748 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,439 Speaker 1: And eventually they started migrating away. Because if you don't 749 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,360 Speaker 1: like the law in one place, then you don't agree 750 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: with it and you can leave, Then why on earth 751 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 1: would you stay, especially if you know it's going to 752 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,719 Speaker 1: impact the lives of your children. So they migrated centuries 753 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,600 Speaker 1: and centuries and centuries, go from Virginia through the Carolinas 754 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 1: before settling primarily in the mountains of East Tennessee. Why 755 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 1: did they seem so well established when other Europeans came right, 756 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,319 Speaker 1: That's that's a question for a different day, because those 757 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,560 Speaker 1: other explorers probably weren't aware of what what happened that 758 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,120 Speaker 1: led these people to live there, And the claims of 759 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,920 Speaker 1: things like Portuguese ancestry were just a ruse, a very conspiracy, 760 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,839 Speaker 1: because they wanted to remain free, even if they were 761 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,319 Speaker 1: called free people of color. The most important part of 762 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,240 Speaker 1: that phrase to them was the one at the beginning free. 763 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:57,040 Speaker 1: And they also wanted to retain social privileges that would 764 00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,840 Speaker 1: come with the idea of passing. And so in short, 765 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,400 Speaker 1: they were trying to cover up part of their collective past. 766 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,719 Speaker 1: In most cases, they were trying to cover up African ancestry. 767 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,880 Speaker 1: And that conspiracy, as crazy as it sounds, worked incredibly 768 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,279 Speaker 1: well for a long time. Like it worked, they were 769 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 1: considered different. And also, yes, it does sound silly to 770 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 1: want to cover up something like that, because, as we 771 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,400 Speaker 1: all know, science proves that if you are a human being, 772 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:30,280 Speaker 1: then your ancestors ultimately originated from the African continent. Yeah, 773 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,880 Speaker 1: and it's not difficult to know why, right, Why why 774 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,200 Speaker 1: would a large group of people conspire to hide their identity, 775 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,400 Speaker 1: Because it does not take much at all to crack 776 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 1: open even a history book that sanctioned by the United 777 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: States and the Departments of Education and see the atrocities, 778 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:55,399 Speaker 1: the crimes that were committed against anyone who was not 779 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,880 Speaker 1: let's just say it white enough within the colonies and 780 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,880 Speaker 1: uh and in the early United States, even before it 781 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,399 Speaker 1: was a country, right as as things were just being 782 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: settled and colonized and there's a very good reason to 783 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 1: want to. As you said, then pass for something that 784 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 1: something other. Yeah, yeah, I mean travel back to even 785 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,080 Speaker 1: as recently as the early eighteen hundreds in this part 786 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,759 Speaker 1: of the world, and say that you are Malungeon. What 787 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:26,920 Speaker 1: would you do to give your kids a better shot 788 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,680 Speaker 1: at success in life? For most people, the answer is, 789 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 1: and it should be, virtually anything I can do is 790 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,279 Speaker 1: what I will do. And this ruse, this conspiracy was 791 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:42,719 Speaker 1: so successful that over generations, actual Malungeons fell for the 792 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: story once meant to protect them from outsiders. You can't 793 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:51,160 Speaker 1: tell me we're not Turkish, etcetera, etcetera. And oral traditions 794 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,120 Speaker 1: and folklore are fascinating, and they are often based in 795 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,719 Speaker 1: some grain of truth. But DNA is solid evidence. It 796 00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 1: can't be ignored. The mystery is solved, and those who 797 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,240 Speaker 1: claim him it is not either have their own unique 798 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,719 Speaker 1: non Malungian family history or they may simply not want 799 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:11,640 Speaker 1: to admit the truth. The pattern of hiding from the past, 800 00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,000 Speaker 1: even when it becomes a parent that you're doing so, 801 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,840 Speaker 1: is Sadly, it's not unique to Malungeon's. It's not unique 802 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,200 Speaker 1: to try racial isolets. It's not unique to the United States. 803 00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,200 Speaker 1: It is an important lesson. Is the ultimate takeaway from 804 00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,399 Speaker 1: this mystery is I think I'm trying to be positive here. 805 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: I think in some ways it's inspiring. And Matt, I 806 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,680 Speaker 1: think we found the perfect person to give us the 807 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,320 Speaker 1: last word on what we can take away from this episode. 808 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,799 Speaker 1: The mystery of the malungeons. That recent DNA study that 809 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,719 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, which you can read about, by the way, 810 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,360 Speaker 1: if you look to the Associated Press and Travis Lawler, 811 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,479 Speaker 1: you can find this and I would type this into 812 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,680 Speaker 1: your search bar. A whole lot of people upset about 813 00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:58,480 Speaker 1: upset by this study or DNA and the truth about 814 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,520 Speaker 1: Appalachia's malungeons. So there was this this DNA study we 815 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,480 Speaker 1: talked about, and there was some response to it. There's 816 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,719 Speaker 1: a sociologist named g Reginald Daniel who spent much of 817 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:13,080 Speaker 1: his life around three decades, uh, just studying this this 818 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,359 Speaker 1: whole thing multi racial communities within the United States, and 819 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,680 Speaker 1: this is his quotation quote, all of us are multi racial, 820 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:27,919 Speaker 1: and this study is recapturing a more authentic United States history. 821 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,680 Speaker 1: Well said, yeah, and it's and it's a mission that 822 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,800 Speaker 1: everybody should be on board with. You know, there's there's 823 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 1: this tendency that happens not with everybody, but as people 824 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: age and as they begin considering their mortality more often 825 00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 1: or more deeply, their interest in the past also increases. 826 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure everybody listening can think of one older relative 827 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,839 Speaker 1: who got super into genealogy right and maybe learned some 828 00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,840 Speaker 1: amazing things. And you may have found yourself going on 829 00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:04,279 Speaker 1: journey like this. It is a noble undertaking and it's 830 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,560 Speaker 1: something that those who come after you will appreciate in 831 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: their own time. And with this in mind, we passed 832 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,719 Speaker 1: the torch to you, or we put a badger in 833 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,040 Speaker 1: a bag and we toss it to you. What what 834 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 1: do you think? Do you have any multi racial background 835 00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,560 Speaker 1: in your family? And if so, did it surprise you? 836 00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,960 Speaker 1: How was it handled? What does stories like this make 837 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,040 Speaker 1: you think about what we have yet to learn about 838 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,879 Speaker 1: the past of the US and what this could mean 839 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,799 Speaker 1: for the future. Please let us know. We can't wait 840 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,480 Speaker 1: to hear from you. We try to be easy to 841 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: find online. That's true. You can find us on the internet. 842 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,960 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy stuff on YouTube, or conspiracy stuff on 843 00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,680 Speaker 1: Facebook and Twitter, or conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. And 844 00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,440 Speaker 1: you can also give us a good old fashioned telephone call. 845 00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,359 Speaker 1: That's right, one eight three three std w y t 846 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,399 Speaker 1: K that's the number. Leave your name, not your real name, though, 847 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,840 Speaker 1: a cool nickname that we can all you. That's the 848 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,319 Speaker 1: best way to do it. You've got three minutes, use 849 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,760 Speaker 1: them as your own however you wish. If you've gotten 850 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,400 Speaker 1: more to say, then can fit into those three minutes. 851 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,799 Speaker 1: We highly recommend you send us an email. Our addresses 852 00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:35,399 Speaker 1: conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want 853 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,760 Speaker 1: you to Know is a production of I heart Radio. 854 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,360 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 855 00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,279 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 856 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:44,160 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.