WEBVTT - How One U.S. State Is Trying to Close the Huge Education Gap

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Stephanomics, the podcast that brings the

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<v Speaker 1>global economy to you. Well. Last week we talked about

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<v Speaker 1>whether a country could ever have too many educated workers.

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<v Speaker 1>Today we're asking how the US should go about fixing

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<v Speaker 1>the opposite problem, having far too little high quality education

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<v Speaker 1>happening in low income communities, where skills and education might

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<v Speaker 1>be the only ticket to a decent job. The task

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<v Speaker 1>is complicated by the fact that in the US, the

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<v Speaker 1>individual states provide the lion's share of the funding for

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<v Speaker 1>schools and have a lot of influence. In a minute,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll have a chat with an expert in US education

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<v Speaker 1>policy from the Economic Policy Institute in Washington, d C.

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<v Speaker 1>About how exactly you tackle the inequalities that are built

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<v Speaker 1>deep into the US education system. But first, our US

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<v Speaker 1>Economy reporter Craig Torres has gone back to school in

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<v Speaker 1>a touched a corner of western Maryland. This is Gary Bay.

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<v Speaker 1>She's the third grade teacher. Welcome to Hi. How are

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<v Speaker 1>you organized chaos? Welcome? This is inside recess. How are

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<v Speaker 1>you we are? We're getting the tank ready for tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna be standing up for our trout in the Pastorge.

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<v Speaker 1>They're great, It's gonna raise trouts, some rocklashers. How's it down?

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<v Speaker 1>Probably the queen as trash every did see you have

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<v Speaker 1>never thought there'd be a line of children that want

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<v Speaker 1>are you? That's school principal Dana McCauley and one of

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<v Speaker 1>her teachers at Crellin Elementary School in western Maryland. The

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<v Speaker 1>school sits on the edge of a former Appalachian coal

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<v Speaker 1>mining village of the same name. Many families struggle here.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, more than half of mccaulay's students received a

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<v Speaker 1>free or subsidized meal. It is classrooms like this one

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<v Speaker 1>we're widening. Inequality in the US increases, or maybe finally

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<v Speaker 1>begins to narrow. The US labor market is demanding more

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<v Speaker 1>high level skills from the workforce, the types that students

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<v Speaker 1>begin to build in high school. The basic foundation is

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<v Speaker 1>built in elementary schools like this one. All rights researchers

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<v Speaker 1>continue to find that achievement gaps between well off students

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<v Speaker 1>and poor students have failed to close, despite decades of

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<v Speaker 1>work to fix the problem. One big reason is that

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<v Speaker 1>education in the US is mainly financed with state and

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<v Speaker 1>local budgets, and local budgets are often tied to local

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<v Speaker 1>real estate taxes, so the more financially challenged a county is,

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<v Speaker 1>the more constrained its funds. The result is you often

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<v Speaker 1>see impoverished school systems producing impoverished adults. The lack of

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<v Speaker 1>resources for education and poorer states has felt well beyond

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<v Speaker 1>the school gates. Here's Bruce Baker, professor at Rutgers University

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<v Speaker 1>Graduate School of Education. It takes money to provide quality

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<v Speaker 1>services to two kids, and schooling is human resource intensive.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to be able to hire and retain enough

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<v Speaker 1>good people with the right qualification to get the job done.

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<v Speaker 1>In an affluent community, it's an easier job to get done.

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<v Speaker 1>You've got parents and families that are putting additional resources

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<v Speaker 1>into their own kids outside of school, and you get

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<v Speaker 1>kids that are coming to see a better fed, better

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<v Speaker 1>prepared The state of Maryland is considering a reform that

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<v Speaker 1>would attack this problem head on. William Kerwin is a

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<v Speaker 1>maryland Ed cat with long experience. He led the team

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<v Speaker 1>that wrote the plan. He told me the state has

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<v Speaker 1>to act now, either it stops widening economic disparities or

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<v Speaker 1>becomes two societies. Maryland is one of the richer u

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<v Speaker 1>S states, Yet his report found that four out of

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<v Speaker 1>every ten public schools in the state get at least

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<v Speaker 1>fifty of their students from low income families. Test scores

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<v Speaker 1>are starting to lag, with a wide performance gap between

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<v Speaker 1>low income and well off students. The plan calls for

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<v Speaker 1>an increase in state and local spending that rises to

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<v Speaker 1>more than three billion a year by The goal is

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<v Speaker 1>to raise standards and teacher pay and provide educators such

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<v Speaker 1>as Macaulay with more support. It's not it's not that

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<v Speaker 1>people don't care about the school system. That's not it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's a matter of where it is on the

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<v Speaker 1>list of prior you know. Yeah, And honestly I think

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<v Speaker 1>too that. Seven West, a former teacher who now works

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<v Speaker 1>for the Educators Union, we had a drink at a

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<v Speaker 1>popular local restaurant in the county and spoke about the

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<v Speaker 1>types of challenges the Kerwin Plan would address in rural

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<v Speaker 1>school districts like this one. Themediate house on income is

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<v Speaker 1>pretty low. There's a significant problem here with readiness. This

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<v Speaker 1>area is also dealing with pretty profound effects of the

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<v Speaker 1>ovoid crisis UM and more and more pre K programs

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<v Speaker 1>are are We're seeing students come in with very very

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<v Speaker 1>acute needs. What Kerwin understands and tries to address is

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<v Speaker 1>that children from troubled family situations or from poverty are

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<v Speaker 1>at risk of being vulnerable adults if both their educational

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<v Speaker 1>and social needs aren't dealt with. Now coming to this

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<v Speaker 1>school as a minder that income inequality in the US

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<v Speaker 1>is increasingly geographic. Suburbs and cities are getting richer while

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<v Speaker 1>rural areas are getting poor. Garrett County, where Krellin is located,

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<v Speaker 1>a scene declining enrollment in its school system. Residents told

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<v Speaker 1>me this is partly due to families finding better opportunities elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>The future of the workforce in Garrett County is in

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<v Speaker 1>the classrooms today. I asked Evan West if better education

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<v Speaker 1>would improve economic development and employment here. It's probably the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest part of the answer. It's the most important piece

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<v Speaker 1>of a larger puzzle. Okay, And the Kerwin proposal will

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<v Speaker 1>be a big fight in the Maryland legislature in the

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<v Speaker 1>session which started in January. Nobody is sure how it

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<v Speaker 1>is going to turn out. Even county officials here are

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<v Speaker 1>grappling with the idea of how they're going to pay

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<v Speaker 1>for their share of the reform, even though they would

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<v Speaker 1>also get more state money. With the plan. I spoke

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<v Speaker 1>to Paul Edwards. His family has been in this county

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<v Speaker 1>for four generations. He is a county commissioner and head

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<v Speaker 1>of secondary education in Garrett County. He has also been

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<v Speaker 1>a teacher and a coach. He understands the challenges the

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<v Speaker 1>school system is facing now, from the need for higher

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<v Speaker 1>pay to recruit teachers to opioid affected kids. Still, America's

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<v Speaker 1>county based education financing system presents challenges. Carlin is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be very difficult fund for us. You know, we're

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<v Speaker 1>looking at, you know, thirteen million additional dollars we've got

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<v Speaker 1>to find locally to pay for Carwin. That's not jump

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<v Speaker 1>change for us because our snowy creek. Yeah, and remember

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<v Speaker 1>where do we come down here to find crayfish? Back

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<v Speaker 1>at Crawlin Elementary, I take a walk with Dana mcaulay

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<v Speaker 1>around the farm that's behind our school. There are chickens,

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<v Speaker 1>a greenhouse, orchard, and even a pregnant you during my visit.

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<v Speaker 1>As her kids leave her, she wants them to have

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<v Speaker 1>options to satisfy the curiosity that she's built here in

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<v Speaker 1>the classroom. I want them to have choices. So when

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<v Speaker 1>I look at um academics. Um, I want them to

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<v Speaker 1>have choices in the classes that they take. If they

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<v Speaker 1>if they choose not to take it, it's not going

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<v Speaker 1>to be because they can't because they don't have the ability.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know what I mean? Like, I want them

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<v Speaker 1>to have choices, and I want them to be confident,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want them to feel just securing themselves. This

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<v Speaker 1>is where we found our bears. Huh, I found bears here.

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<v Speaker 1>That bears were back here. Yes, were they living, They

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<v Speaker 1>were just bound. They were passing through Bloomberg News. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Craig Trust. So that's the view from Western Maryland. On

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<v Speaker 1>the phone. Now, I have Elaine Weiss, an education policy

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<v Speaker 1>specialist from the Washington think tank, the Economic Policy Institute. Elaine,

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<v Speaker 1>you've led a campaign in the past to call attention

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<v Speaker 1>to many of the obstacles in the way of high

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<v Speaker 1>quality education in low income communities that we we heard

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<v Speaker 1>about in that piece from from Craig Torres. Um. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean we heard there that the state is trying to

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<v Speaker 1>direct more money into those low income schools to try

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<v Speaker 1>and increase outcomes. But you know, tell us, what what

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<v Speaker 1>do we know about what works in this area? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, is money really the answer, or there deeper

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<v Speaker 1>changes you have to make. So the short answer is

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<v Speaker 1>that we absolutely do know how to improve educational outcomes

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<v Speaker 1>in poorly resourced districts, and it starts with the reality

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<v Speaker 1>that all kids need the same things in order to

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<v Speaker 1>succeed in school and be prepared for life, whether higher

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<v Speaker 1>education or the start of a career. And we know

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<v Speaker 1>this because Maslow told us very clearly that everybody needs

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<v Speaker 1>to start with the basics safety, security, food, and shelter.

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<v Speaker 1>Kids in particular really need the feeling of being loved

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<v Speaker 1>and being connected to other people, in particular key adults

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<v Speaker 1>in their lives. And once they have those things, they

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<v Speaker 1>can take advantage of the kinds of things, stimulation, and

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<v Speaker 1>opportunities to explore and learn that schools offer. The problem,

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<v Speaker 1>as Crens report illustrated very starkly, is that a growing

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<v Speaker 1>share of students in our country's public schools don't have

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<v Speaker 1>access to even those basics, and they are therefore not

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<v Speaker 1>able to benefit from what our teachers and our schools

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<v Speaker 1>have to offer. And due to how we fund and

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<v Speaker 1>structure our public schools, the opportunities in those schools are

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<v Speaker 1>also vastly disparate, which means that they are compounding the

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<v Speaker 1>inequalities that the children in those schools experience in their

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<v Speaker 1>daily lives. In the book that I published this past year,

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<v Speaker 1>we explored a dozen very different communities across the country

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<v Speaker 1>where schools and communities have built partnerships to ensure that

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<v Speaker 1>all children have those basics and that schools serving disadvantage

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<v Speaker 1>students have the tools and resources to provide those kind

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<v Speaker 1>of stimulating, enriching opportunities. And I shall tell you, those

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<v Speaker 1>districts are bucking the trend. A lot of people listening

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<v Speaker 1>will feel like it will be amazed that that this

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<v Speaker 1>is still such a big problem, that this debate is

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<v Speaker 1>still ongoing when you consider that when you can, and

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<v Speaker 1>not least because actually politicians on both sides, even in

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<v Speaker 1>this sort of partisan times, febrile partisan times, you've had

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans and Democrats very firmly in favor of changing the

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<v Speaker 1>education system, putting more money into it. I mean, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>President Bush, you know there's no child left behind policy.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you can debate the details of it, but

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<v Speaker 1>there has been quite a sort of bipartisan consensus in

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<v Speaker 1>favor of improving education. And what's been what's what's been

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<v Speaker 1>standing in the way of the kind of change that

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<v Speaker 1>you're talking about. I mean, does it still come down

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<v Speaker 1>to differences about how to do it or has there

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<v Speaker 1>just been a lack of desire to put money into it?

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<v Speaker 1>It's both, you know. So you talk about these decades

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<v Speaker 1>we've spent people being education governors and education presidents. Throughout

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<v Speaker 1>those decades, we have systematically put less and less money

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<v Speaker 1>into our schools. So there's the first irony in all

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<v Speaker 1>of this. So that has not happened. And the second

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<v Speaker 1>piece is that we have completely ignored and even dismissed

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<v Speaker 1>the reality that poverty and inequity are at the heart

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<v Speaker 1>of the problem, and we have been ironically and wrongly

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<v Speaker 1>fixated on these narrow little things we could do, how

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<v Speaker 1>we run schools, who's the head of a school, what

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<v Speaker 1>kind of standards we have in a school, while totally

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<v Speaker 1>ignoring the reality that a growing number of our kids

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<v Speaker 1>come to school so ill prepared to learn and so

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<v Speaker 1>unequipped to deal with the daily stresses that they live

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<v Speaker 1>in that they can't possibly learn effectively. What I am

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<v Speaker 1>hopeful about is that that has really turned around in

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<v Speaker 1>the last five years um and there is growing recognition

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<v Speaker 1>and even a call to pay a lot of attention

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<v Speaker 1>to the role up poverty and inequality are playing to

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<v Speaker 1>try to enact policies that counter those forces and put

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<v Speaker 1>in place the kind of collaborative, whole child focused approaches

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<v Speaker 1>to education. UM. And I would say that the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of education martial plans that two of our candidates, Bernie

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<v Speaker 1>Sanders and Elizabeth and put forth would go a huge

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<v Speaker 1>way toward putting us where we need to be and

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<v Speaker 1>represent I think a huge growing public recognition that we

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<v Speaker 1>have been going down totally the wrong path, um, and

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<v Speaker 1>that what we're calling education reform in the past decades

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<v Speaker 1>is really in the wrong direction. Well, it's interesting. I

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<v Speaker 1>was going to, of course ask you finally about how

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<v Speaker 1>whether you thought there was a prospect for for real

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<v Speaker 1>change in this from an election result in November and

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<v Speaker 1>the presidential election, And you've mentioned that Bernie Sounders and

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<v Speaker 1>as Witheth Warren both have very dramatic education proposals. I

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<v Speaker 1>guess the risk is that it does become highly politicized

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<v Speaker 1>and whatever they do will get reversed by the next president.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean another point I guess also people sometimes make

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<v Speaker 1>about the Democrat side is that, especially when it comes

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<v Speaker 1>to an election, they're a bit too unwilling to take

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<v Speaker 1>on teachers and in trying to sort of improve the

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<v Speaker 1>way that teachers can contribute to outcomes. But is that

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<v Speaker 1>is that a is that a false debate? That is

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<v Speaker 1>a very false debate. And it's interesting that so called

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<v Speaker 1>taking on teachers should be the problem in education. Imagine

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<v Speaker 1>if we needed to, which we do in this country,

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<v Speaker 1>improve our medical system, and we said, what we really

0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.840
<v Speaker 1>need to do is take on doctors, they're the problem.

0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.240
<v Speaker 1>I think we could all agree that that is not

0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:24.240
<v Speaker 1>only ridiculous but pretty counterproductive. But that's exactly the way

0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.320
<v Speaker 1>we've been dealing with education, as if teachers were the

0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 1>problem instead of the solution. Teachers have been telling us

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.280
<v Speaker 1>for ten twenty thirty years that they are seeing kids

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:38.160
<v Speaker 1>walk in the door every day, you know, not eating um,

0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.760
<v Speaker 1>not sleeping, you know, stressed out from violence that's going

0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 1>on in dysfunction in their communities, and that we all

0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.680
<v Speaker 1>need to pay attention to this and help equip schools,

0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 1>but also stop these realities from being from dominating children's

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 1>lives if we really want them to succeed. And obviously

0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.000
<v Speaker 1>that's true, So I would say the biggest problem is

0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:03.000
<v Speaker 1>not taking on teach chairs, but listening to teachers. Um

0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.040
<v Speaker 1>and I think anyone who thinks that fighting teachers to

0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 1>improve schools, let's take a step back and think how

0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:13.720
<v Speaker 1>ridiculous that really is. We did hear in that piece

0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.160
<v Speaker 1>that they are trying these poorer communities. At least this

0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 1>one program is trying to look at everything that's affecting

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 1>a child's outcome, not just what happens in school. So

0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 1>maybe things will change. Elaine Wise from the Economy Economic

0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.320
<v Speaker 1>Policy Institute, thanks very much for joining us. Thank you

0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.240
<v Speaker 1>so much. It was a pleasure to be here. Thank

0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 1>you so much for covering this. Elaine made me smile

0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.800
<v Speaker 1>there talking about how crazy it would be to take

0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.560
<v Speaker 1>on doctors because in Britain, politicians and everyone else has

0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:54.480
<v Speaker 1>been been taking on doctors for years now, ever since

0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:57.920
<v Speaker 1>they opposed the creation of the National Health Service. Anyway,

0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 1>moving on, we are going to talk about trade. But

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.119
<v Speaker 1>before you grown, given how much we've talked about trade

0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.040
<v Speaker 1>in the past, I should say it might be the

0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.119
<v Speaker 1>last time in a while, because it's this week that

0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.280
<v Speaker 1>the US and China have been signing the deal that

0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 1>makes US China trade wars a thing of the past,

0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:21.159
<v Speaker 1>or at least maybe puts off more trade wars until

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:25.480
<v Speaker 1>after the presidential election in November. We must talk to

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Sean Donn and our senior trade reporter to ask him

0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.680
<v Speaker 1>whether that's really the case. Sean, I should say this

0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 1>signing ceremony was not timed with Stephanomics in mind. So

0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:40.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking to you just as we're expecting that ceremony

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.239
<v Speaker 1>to take place. But we have a reasonable idea of

0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.240
<v Speaker 1>what's in the deal. Do you think it will take

0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.879
<v Speaker 1>trade wars out of the headlines for at least the

0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.919
<v Speaker 1>next twelve months or are there still too many question marks?

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.600
<v Speaker 1>I smiled quietly when you said that in the in

0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.439
<v Speaker 1>the intro there. I I don't think this is the

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.440
<v Speaker 1>end of of of the trade wars. And I think

0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 1>the reason for that is, UH. It just leaves so

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:09.520
<v Speaker 1>many unanswered questions and so many big issues untackled, UH,

0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:14.880
<v Speaker 1>including possibly the biggest one in not just US economic

0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.000
<v Speaker 1>relations with China, but China's relations with the world. And

0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.640
<v Speaker 1>that's the issue of industrial subsidies and all of those

0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:24.679
<v Speaker 1>cheap loans, cheap electricity, and all the other mechanisms the

0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:30.720
<v Speaker 1>Chinese have really used to underpin that model of state

0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.359
<v Speaker 1>capitalism that has helped Chinese companies take on the world

0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.200
<v Speaker 1>in recent decades. This is phase one that is gonna come,

0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.239
<v Speaker 1>we are told by the administration, in phase two. No

0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.439
<v Speaker 1>one expects a resolution to Phase two until after the

0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:48.760
<v Speaker 1>U S presidential election, and there is always the possibility

0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.280
<v Speaker 1>in the meantime that the Chinese could uh fail to

0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.240
<v Speaker 1>live up to their commitments. The Trump administration could get

0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:58.359
<v Speaker 1>grumpy about that, and we could see more tariffs. And

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.879
<v Speaker 1>then finally, there's just one big reality that is going

0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.359
<v Speaker 1>to be with us throughout, and that is that there

0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:10.000
<v Speaker 1>are still tariffs on two thirds of imports from China

0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.199
<v Speaker 1>in place. Those aren't going away, The economic impact of

0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.560
<v Speaker 1>those isn't going away, the business reality of those isn't

0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.960
<v Speaker 1>going away. So the trade wars are here. Maybe the

0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.159
<v Speaker 1>better way to think about it is we're getting a

0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.640
<v Speaker 1>truce um, but this is a trade wars are kind

0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.199
<v Speaker 1>of the new normal. So just to digg into that

0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:33.679
<v Speaker 1>a bit, because obviously this is the most relevance this

0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:35.320
<v Speaker 1>is going to have, at least in the US, is

0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.760
<v Speaker 1>going to be how it plays into the presidential election.

0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:42.160
<v Speaker 1>We've talked before about whether the President would feel comfortable

0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.680
<v Speaker 1>saying that he'd he'd done the great deal and then

0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.840
<v Speaker 1>leave himself open to being criticized by Democrats about the

0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.400
<v Speaker 1>holes in that deal or China's failure to comply with

0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.199
<v Speaker 1>what was in it? And what are the what are

0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.480
<v Speaker 1>the things that if you were in the Democrats side

0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:00.320
<v Speaker 1>and you were looking for tangible things you can point

0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.679
<v Speaker 1>to to say they're not complying with this deal or

0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:08.240
<v Speaker 1>or you know, immediate short term weaknesses in it. Um

0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.640
<v Speaker 1>what's the kind of thing that you're likely to hear. Well,

0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.040
<v Speaker 1>we're already starting to hear some of that from the Democrats.

0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.040
<v Speaker 1>Chuck Schumer, the top Democrat in the Senate, sent a

0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.920
<v Speaker 1>letter to President Trump on Tuesday and and he said,

0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.000
<v Speaker 1>all of the things that aren't in this deal, and

0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 1>he pointed to industrial subsidies, but also two issues like

0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:29.760
<v Speaker 1>Chinese cyber theft, the hacking of US companies and US

0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:34.360
<v Speaker 1>government agencies by Chinese hackers. Uh, that is not addressed

0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>in this deal. You pointed to all of those things

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.119
<v Speaker 1>and said, you know, President Trump, you're giving in too easy.

0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:45.000
<v Speaker 1>You're showing the Chinese that American negotiators can be steam rolled.

0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.800
<v Speaker 1>And that sets a dangerous precedent for the future. I

0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>think we're gonna hear a lot more of that from

0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.560
<v Speaker 1>the Democrats, uh, in the future. And then we're still

0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:56.199
<v Speaker 1>hearing criticism from the Democrats on the tariffs. You know,

0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:03.560
<v Speaker 1>the candidates for president have into to the tariffs and

0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:08.280
<v Speaker 1>the economic damage to farmers and the manufacturers that's come

0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.000
<v Speaker 1>from them, and and and said, you know, we need

0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:13.920
<v Speaker 1>to find a better way, although they haven't necessarily offered

0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:18.040
<v Speaker 1>a better way. It's interesting because you say, uh, we've

0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.720
<v Speaker 1>talked in the past about why the tariffs, that the

0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:25.320
<v Speaker 1>additional tariffs that had originally been threatened for the end

0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.560
<v Speaker 1>of last year weren't imposed. And I think our economists

0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:30.359
<v Speaker 1>pointed out that one big reason was it was going

0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:32.440
<v Speaker 1>to they were going to affect a lot more US

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.919
<v Speaker 1>voters and industries than the previous tariffs. But just to

0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:40.280
<v Speaker 1>be clear, if you're a worker or a company that

0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.000
<v Speaker 1>has seen a negative impact like the ones you visited

0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:47.240
<v Speaker 1>last last summer, the manufacturing companies from the trade wars,

0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:49.919
<v Speaker 1>is there anything in this deal that is going to

0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:55.600
<v Speaker 1>make your life better? No, mhm. I mean that that

0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.600
<v Speaker 1>is because these tariffs remain in place, and and that

0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.639
<v Speaker 1>is one of the areas for you know where Donald

0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:06.119
<v Speaker 1>Trump is still open to criticism. That said, Donald Trump

0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:12.800
<v Speaker 1>is remarkably immune, at least in his behavior, to to criticism.

0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.240
<v Speaker 1>He has already dubbed this a big, beautiful monster of

0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.919
<v Speaker 1>a deal. And like US m c A, which was

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:24.280
<v Speaker 1>the rebranded NAFTA, he is hailing this as one of

0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:28.160
<v Speaker 1>his big economic accomplishments. Uh, and he just dismisses any

0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.680
<v Speaker 1>criticism of it. Although he does. You do get the

0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:32.600
<v Speaker 1>sense when you read the tweets people can get under

0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:36.399
<v Speaker 1>his skin, uh and maybe force him to do or

0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:39.320
<v Speaker 1>say things that he would not otherwise have done. But

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:43.199
<v Speaker 1>I suspect we might hear more about trade in the

0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:45.880
<v Speaker 1>next few months, if only because a new front might

0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:48.960
<v Speaker 1>be opening with Europe. We've got just in time for

0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:52.120
<v Speaker 1>the signing of this deal. We have the European Chief

0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Trade negotiator visiting his counterparts in Washington this week, and

0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.920
<v Speaker 1>maybe that will produce some fireworks. We'll see. But I'm

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.679
<v Speaker 1>not going to inflict that on the listener again, and

0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:04.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to let you, Shawn go off to that ceremony.

0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much, Thanks for thanks for listening to Stephanomics.

0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:15.760
<v Speaker 1>We'll be back next week with a special episode from

0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:19.600
<v Speaker 1>the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. In the meantime,

0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:22.439
<v Speaker 1>you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, website, app,

0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:25.200
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you get your podcasts, and we would love

0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:27.360
<v Speaker 1>it if you took the time to rate and review

0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.600
<v Speaker 1>our show. For more news and analysis from Bloomberg Economics

0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.920
<v Speaker 1>during the week, follow at Economics on Twitter, or you

0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:37.359
<v Speaker 1>can also find me on at my Stephanomics. The story

0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.160
<v Speaker 1>in this episode was reported and written by Craig Torres.

0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:43.600
<v Speaker 1>It was produced by Magnus Hendrickson and edited by Anita

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Sharp and Scott Lambman, who is also the executive producer

0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:50.720
<v Speaker 1>of Stephanomics Special Thanks to Elaine Weisse and Sean Donnan.

0:23:51.560 --> 0:24:02.119
<v Speaker 1>Francesco Levy is the head of Bloomberg Podcast in the