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Speaker 1: How would you feel if you went back to prison.

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Speaker 2: I'll have to protect myself again, Senatent. I'd have to

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Speaker 2: kill or.

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Speaker 3: Be killed again. September nineteenth, nineteen sixty three, A dead

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Speaker 3: broke writer is lying on his couch in suburban New York.

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Speaker 3: He's glued to his television set, but he's not watching

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Speaker 3: a mob movie. He's watching a Senate hearing.

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Speaker 1: This is a special report from CBS News in Washington,

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Speaker 1: the Congress and Cozanostra.

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Speaker 3: The testimony is from Cozonostra insider Joseph Wallachi, who would

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Speaker 3: become better known as the first man to rat on

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Speaker 3: the mob on national television.

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Speaker 1: The sworn testimony you just heard came from the lips

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Speaker 1: of Joseph Vallachi, lips that supposedly were sealed thirty three

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Speaker 1: years ago when he joined America's underworld crime syndicate, Cozonostra.

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Speaker 3: The world he describes has a name, name that's new

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Speaker 3: to most Americans, Mafia.

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Speaker 2: Would it be fair to say that you went back

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Speaker 2: to prison, that you'll be a dead man if they

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Speaker 2: got up me. I wouldn't be in the five minute Senator.

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Speaker 3: Meanwhile, the man watching his television set would say he

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Speaker 3: had never met a real gangster, but he knows enough

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Speaker 3: to see the story for what it is.

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Speaker 2: As a senator put it before, what did I get

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Speaker 2: out of it?

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Speaker 3: Why'd you get out?

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Speaker 2: But misery? Or you know, as you all understand, once

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Speaker 2: you're in, you're in. You can't get out.

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Speaker 3: The man on the couch sees a true American story,

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Speaker 3: a web of family and brutality, loyalty and betrayal, fathers

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Speaker 3: and sons, immigration, and the American dream. The man doesn't

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Speaker 3: know it yet, but this inspiration will stay with him

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Speaker 3: for years to come. The man's name Mario Puzo. I'm

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Speaker 3: Mark Seal.

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Speaker 4: And I'm Nathan King.

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Speaker 3: And this is Leave the gun, Take the Canoli. In

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Speaker 3: today's episode, we're taking a closer look at the real

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Speaker 3: life mafia stories that influence Mario Puzo's.

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Speaker 4: Book and diving into the life and career of the

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Speaker 4: unlikely author who ascended from the depths of Hell's Kitchen

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Speaker 4: to the glitz and glam of Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: We'll also learn how Puzo's novel landed in the hands

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Speaker 3: of Paramount executive Robert Evans when he needed him most.

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Speaker 4: So let's get started.

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Speaker 5: Did you do anything for the family at all in

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Speaker 5: this time.

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Speaker 6: Or did they just do things for you?

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Speaker 2: Just go out kill for them?

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Speaker 4: You'd go out what kill mark? The Vallacci hearings are infamous.

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Speaker 4: Joseph Vallacci was a made man, a member of the

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Speaker 4: Genovese crime family and longtime henchmen for mob boss Vito Genovese.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and it was absolutely shocking at the time, especially

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Speaker 3: since Joe Blacci knew exactly how the mob treated snitches.

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Speaker 4: Well, he had some first hand experience. He was intimately

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Speaker 4: familiar with the story of Alberto Aguici.

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Speaker 3: And it's a particularly gruesome story. When I was researching

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Speaker 3: for the book, it stood out as an incredible example

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Speaker 3: of the brutality of the mafia.

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Speaker 4: Aguici was a baker from Toronto. But Baker is sort

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Speaker 4: of in quotes, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Baker is definitely in quotes. He was really a heroin

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Speaker 3: smuggler and an associate of the Magadino crime family in Buffalo.

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Speaker 3: And in May of nineteen sixty one, he was indicted

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Speaker 3: along with nineteen others in one hundred and fifty million

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Speaker 3: dollar heroin smuggling ring.

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Speaker 4: We're talking about the notorious French Connection heroin smuggling ring.

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Speaker 4: That started in the thirties and stretched from Indo, China

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Speaker 4: all the way to France, then to Canada in the US.

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Speaker 3: And one of those nineteen others was our mobman turned informant,

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Speaker 3: Joseph Balacchi, and while in jail together, Billacchi listened as

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Speaker 3: Aguiici absolutely railed against Magadino, who he had expected to

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Speaker 3: raise money for his bail but instead was letting him

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Speaker 3: rot in jail.

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Speaker 4: It's generally not a good idea to talk badly about

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Speaker 4: a crime boss as you're in prison.

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Speaker 3: Not at all. Aguici ended up having to sell his

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Speaker 3: house to make bail and was apparently threatening to flip

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Speaker 3: on Maganino.

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Speaker 4: But it didn't last long because in October of nineteen

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Speaker 4: sixty one, Alberto left his wife and daughters in Toronto

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Speaker 4: to meet Magadino. He never made it, though he ended

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Speaker 4: up badly beaten, burned, really gruesomely disfigured in a cornfield.

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Speaker 3: I wrote in the book that it was like encountering

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Speaker 3: an animal or something the police couldn't even tell that

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Speaker 3: it was human. It was in the middle of a

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Speaker 3: circle that had been burned into the grass, like a

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Speaker 3: demented sign from hell.

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Speaker 4: And no one really knows who did it, but people

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Speaker 4: suspect that Magadino had caught wind to the fact that

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Speaker 4: Aguichi was railing against him and speaking poorly and taking

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Speaker 4: his name in vain and had something done about it. Now,

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Speaker 4: the rest of the story is incredibly complicated, and we

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Speaker 4: don't have time to tell it here, but it's a

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Speaker 4: tale of brotherhood and betrayal and threats on people's lives,

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Speaker 4: and ultimately Joseph Vallacci ends up fearing for his life.

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Speaker 1: It was at this point, apparently, when Vallachi decided to

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Speaker 1: sing for protection and i FBI agent was assigned to

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Speaker 1: him full time, and the Justice Department began filling in

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Speaker 1: the blanks on its chart of Kzonostra. This is Vlachi's

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Speaker 1: great value, says the department. He is the first member

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Speaker 1: of Cozanostra publicly to confirm its existence.

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Speaker 4: And this is how we get hours of televised senate

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Speaker 4: testimony about the inner workings of the mafia.

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Speaker 3: And it's the first time the word mafia was ever

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Speaker 3: heard by most Americans.

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Speaker 4: But Americans had some understanding of organized crime.

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Speaker 3: Yes, in the nineteen fifties, there was something called the

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Speaker 3: Cupaver hearings, which were televised in fourteen cities across America,

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Speaker 3: and it was something else. It was a hit. It

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Speaker 3: was like a primetime reality show that people were glued

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Speaker 3: to their television sets to watch. It was a parade

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Speaker 3: of what one publication called six hundred gangsters, pimps, bookies,

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Speaker 3: and shady lawyers who testified about the activities of organized crime.

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Speaker 4: Up until that point, this is something that had existed

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Speaker 4: in the shadows, and suddenly it's in living rooms across America.

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Speaker 4: You have these gangsters on screen talking about or in

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Speaker 4: some cases not talking about their crimes. This was pretty

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Speaker 4: electrifying stuff in its day.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it sure was. Thirty million Americans tuned in. And

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Speaker 3: remember this is still in the early days of TV.

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Speaker 4: Was this the hearing where Frank Costello testified without showing

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Speaker 4: his face?

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Speaker 3: Yes, Frank Costello, the all powerful leader of the Luciano

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Speaker 3: crime family, was shot only from the neck down, so

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Speaker 3: you couldn't see his space and he wouldn't really say anything.

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Speaker 3: But still, just to watch him in the hearings was

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Speaker 3: a huge hit. The New York Times headlined in his

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Speaker 3: article Costello TV's first headless star. Only his hands entertained audiences.

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Speaker 2: You must have in your mind something you've done that

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Speaker 2: you can speak off to your credit as an American citizen.

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Speaker 4: If so, what are they.

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Speaker 3: Paid by tax? This was like the Sopranos in real life.

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Speaker 4: But nothing compared to the Ballacci hearings.

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Speaker 3: Ten years later, Yes, ten years later, Joseph Bolacchi did

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Speaker 3: what Costello would not. He told and showed everything.

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Speaker 2: May I ask you this time, when did you become

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Speaker 2: a member of this organization nineteen taty what is the

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Speaker 2: name of it? Causing us?

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Speaker 3: In Italian?

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Speaker 2: Our thing and our family in English?

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Speaker 4: And he said a lot in those thirty one hours

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Speaker 4: of testimony.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he gives almost everything. He tells about what the

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Speaker 3: initiation rights were, He tells the codes, He tells the hierarchy.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is a secret organization. How do you get

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Speaker 2: to know this member of the same family. He'll introduce

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Speaker 2: him to you, for instance, as a friend of oz

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Speaker 2: that means a member. Nah, happens to be with someone

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Speaker 2: that isn't a friend of ours. He would just simply

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Speaker 2: say met a friend of mine, which means nothing. That's

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Speaker 2: the code between us.

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Speaker 3: The mob put out a hit on him, offering one

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Speaker 3: hundred grand to anyone who could take him out, but

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Speaker 3: it was too late. He had already spilled everything on

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Speaker 3: national television and he even used the word godfather.

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Speaker 4: And on the other side of the television screen, Mario

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Speaker 4: Puzzo was so all of this in like a sponge.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. I mean, the testimony was authentic, it

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Speaker 3: was real. But Mario Puzo was a writer, an author,

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Speaker 3: who a great researcher. So he's sitting at home in

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Speaker 3: the suburbs of New York, lying on his couch, watching

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Speaker 3: these hearings like everybody else, but he did what nobody

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Speaker 3: else did. He was able to take these hearings and

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Speaker 3: fictionalize them and create a family that was even more romantic,

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Speaker 3: more dangerous, more influential than anything he's seen on television.

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Speaker 3: He created the Corleone family.

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Speaker 4: You've described Puso as a white whale in your reporting

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Speaker 4: of the story because you never actually got to speak

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Speaker 4: to him. But how did you get to the heart

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Speaker 4: of his story and his background.

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Speaker 3: To my eternal regret, Mario Puzo had passed away by

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Speaker 3: the time I started working on the magazine article and

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Speaker 3: of course later the book, But he would tell his

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Speaker 3: incredible story himself in numerous newspapers and magazine articles. Later

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Speaker 3: in interviews, and I was able to speak to his

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Speaker 3: eldest daughter, Dorothy Puso, who told me in an email

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Speaker 3: that she thought most likely her father had tossed all

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Speaker 3: of the research, all of the writing that he had

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Speaker 3: done on the movie and the book The Godfather. She said,

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Speaker 3: you know, he was a poor, aspiring writer who would

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Speaker 3: know to keep that stup. But to my astonishment and

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Speaker 3: amazement and good fortune, those things weren't tossed. They were saved,

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Speaker 3: and they're now on display at Dartmouth University in a library. There.

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Speaker 3: You can see his writing on the back of folders

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Speaker 3: which he liked to use with the red sharpie. You

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Speaker 3: can see his typewriter. You can read early drafts of

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Speaker 3: both the novel and the screenplay of The Godfather. And

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Speaker 3: then later in my research for the book, I was

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Speaker 3: able to speak with his son, Anthony Puso, who was

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Speaker 3: invaluable in telling me about his illustrious father, the frog

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Speaker 3: who became a prints of Hollywood and the true hero

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Speaker 3: of the Godfather.

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Speaker 4: Where did Puso come from? Because in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 4: he's the most unlikely character of all in this story.

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Speaker 3: Yes, his life was like an unlikely fairy tale, as

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Speaker 3: he wrote in various accounts, including his nineteen seventy two

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Speaker 3: memoir The Godfather Papers, and other confessions, Mario was born

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Speaker 3: into one of the worst sections of New York, whose

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Speaker 3: very name evokes this depravity, Hell's Kitchen. And he was

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Speaker 3: born into a family of immigrants, many of them illiterate,

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Speaker 3: including his mother, who he said could not even read

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Speaker 3: or sign her name, but who employed language like a weapon.

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Speaker 3: Many of the terms that Mario used in The Godfather,

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Speaker 3: he said, were straight out of his mama's mouth.

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Speaker 2: It's a man who doesn't spend time with his family

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Speaker 2: can never be a real man.

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Speaker 3: He grew up in a large family in a tenement flat,

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Speaker 3: and Pusa claimed he never met an honest to god gangster,

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Speaker 3: even though they were all around him.

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Speaker 4: Was his mother worried that he would fall prey to

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Speaker 4: the back element in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, his mother was very protective of Mario, but she

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Speaker 3: wasn't worried about guns so much as girls. Mario claimed

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Speaker 3: he never had that many dates.

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Speaker 4: Though, and he was one of thirteen kids.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and from the beginning he was different from the rest.

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Speaker 3: He loved gambling. He loved to pitch pennies and play cards,

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Speaker 3: and he liked to read, and early on he would

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Speaker 3: read Dostoyevski and go to the library.

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Speaker 4: And for a long time he was sort of a

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Speaker 4: hopeless character. Fame and fortune eluded him, right.

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Speaker 3: Mark, Yeah, for a long long time. He grew up.

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Speaker 3: He was very impoverished. They were so poor that Mario

224
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Speaker 3: said that once his teacher asked all the students to

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Speaker 3: bring a can of food for the poor, and Mario

226
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Speaker 3: was saying, they didn't know we were the poor. And

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Speaker 3: he went out anyway with the other kids in his

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Speaker 3: neighborhood and they went out and stole cans of food

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Speaker 3: to be able to bring it to school.

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Speaker 4: What did his mom think about his professionist writer.

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Speaker 3: Well, her greatest aspiration for Mario was that he would

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Speaker 3: become a railroad clerk and get a steady salary. He

233
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Speaker 3: liked to say, every family has a chooch, the Italian

234
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Speaker 3: word for donkey, and he goes in my family, the

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Speaker 3: chooch was me. College, he would later write, wasn't an option.

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Speaker 3: There were two high schools in his neighborhood, and his

237
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Speaker 3: mom and sister thought he should go to the one

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Speaker 3: that didn't prepare you for college. He asked, why didn't

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Speaker 3: you urge me to attend college, and his sister says,

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Speaker 3: because you were stupid.

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Speaker 4: And he didn't become a writer right away, did he?

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Speaker 3: No, Poor Mario, he suffered so much before finding his

243
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Speaker 3: future as a writer. Things were so grim for Mario

244
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Speaker 3: Puzo that when World War II broke out, he was

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Speaker 3: excited to get away from home. So he joined the military.

246
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Speaker 3: You know, it was a dream to him. He was

247
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Speaker 3: assigned to the fourth Armored Division, Private Puso. He's deployed

248
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Speaker 3: to Europe. He drove a jeep, He had affairs, He

249
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Speaker 3: found a wife, a German woman who he fell in

250
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Speaker 3: love with and brought back to America. And best of all,

251
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Speaker 3: he found material for his first novel.

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Speaker 4: That sounds like World War Two was the best thing

253
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Speaker 4: that ever happened to him.

254
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Speaker 3: Well, not immediately. Typical to Mario is the suffering. He

255
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 3: had dreams of being a writer, but he didn't know

256
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Speaker 3: where to start. So he went to the City College

257
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Speaker 3: of New York on the GI Bill and he studied

258
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Speaker 3: literature and creative writing. And then he did what would

259
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,640
Speaker 3: become his trademark. He struggled. His weight went up, his

260
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Speaker 3: bank account went down. He was broke all the time,

261
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,640
Speaker 3: he was gambling. He was a drift. He got a

262
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 3: job as a clerk at the Manhattan Armory, but he

263
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 3: never had enough money to quit his day job to

264
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Speaker 3: become a writer. He wanted to write high art. He

265
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 3: wanted to be an artistic writer. He wanted to be

266
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Speaker 3: like Dostoyevsky or other writers he admired. But it was

267
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 3: all just a struggle for him. Some of his diaries

268
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,440
Speaker 3: still exist, and it's just full of torment and loss

269
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Speaker 3: and the theme that money is just ruining everything.

270
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Speaker 4: And does he sit down and write his war novel.

271
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Speaker 3: Yes. All along he's writing his first novel, The Dark Arena,

272
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Speaker 3: which gets published by Random House in nineteen fifty four,

273
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Speaker 3: and he thinks, wow, this is it. You know, I'm

274
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Speaker 3: a published author. But the reviews were mixed. It didn't

275
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,920
Speaker 3: do for him what he expected. And Mario got an

276
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 3: advance of thirty five hundred dollars which was quickly gone.

277
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Speaker 3: His weight was way up, his hopes were way down.

278
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Speaker 3: And then on Christmas Eve, something incredible happened. He was

279
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Speaker 3: at home and he suffered a severe gallbladder attack. He

280
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Speaker 3: called a taxi, which drove him to New York City

281
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Speaker 3: in excruciating pain. He arrived at the VA Hospital and

282
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Speaker 3: just then the attack worsen. He opened the door of

283
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Speaker 3: the taxi and he fell out, and he landed in

284
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Speaker 3: a gutter. And he wrote about it later in Time magazine.

285
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Speaker 3: Here I am a published author, and I'm lying in

286
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Speaker 3: a gutter, dying like a dog. At that moment, I decided,

287
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Speaker 3: I'm going to become rich and famous.

288
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Speaker 4: Wow. So he had really hit rock bottom. How long

289
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:12,960
Speaker 4: did it take for him to pull himself up by

290
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:14,040
Speaker 4: his bootstraps?

291
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,600
Speaker 3: Well, a long time, because just because you say you

292
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Speaker 3: want something to happen doesn't mean it will. By nineteen sixty,

293
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 3: Mario's family had grown to five kids and his job

294
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,800
Speaker 3: was in danger because the FBI was investigating his unit

295
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,600
Speaker 3: for helping young soldiers obade the draft. Mario was never charged,

296
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 3: but he ended up quitting his job and pursuing the

297
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,760
Speaker 3: most unusual path for a writer who aspired to high art.

298
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 4: He decided to become a pulp fiction writer.

299
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,760
Speaker 3: Exactly. It was a company called Magazine Management, and if

300
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,640
Speaker 3: there was any man who was destined to write pulp fiction,

301
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,160
Speaker 3: it was Mario Puzo. I was able to speak with

302
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 3: one of his colleagues, John Bowers, and he said Mario

303
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 3: was just able to use his research to invent whole worlds.

304
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:09,560
Speaker 5: But Mario had definite energy at writing. He just could

305
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 5: write nobody's business.

306
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,359
Speaker 3: So he walked into pulp fiction offices of magazine management.

307
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,520
Speaker 3: It's a smoke field office. It's full of men and women,

308
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,359
Speaker 3: city over, clattering typewriters pumping out copy for like this

309
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,119
Speaker 3: never ending flood of trash magazines with names like Mail

310
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,800
Speaker 3: and Stag and for men only. They were called magazines,

311
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,439
Speaker 3: but they were really sort of rags. And soon Mario

312
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,359
Speaker 3: Puza was pumping out salacious stories of brave gis, of

313
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 3: damsels in distress.

314
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,880
Speaker 4: He even wrote a story that took place in Hawaii

315
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 4: where mobsters busted in a gambling parlor, right exactly.

316
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was just one of the many stories. But

317
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:53,960
Speaker 3: I think that was the first of all the ones

318
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,280
Speaker 3: that I saw that really tackled some instance of the mafia.

319
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Speaker 4: And of course most of it was just dreamed up,

320
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,440
Speaker 4: not most of it, All of it was dreamed up.

321
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,720
Speaker 3: I mean, he said once that he would take a

322
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,199
Speaker 3: real life battle where seven thousand people got killed and

323
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,200
Speaker 3: turn it into a bloody battle where one hundred thousand died.

324
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 3: I wish you could.

325
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Speaker 5: Read some of those, imagine the stories. It was larger

326
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:24,920
Speaker 5: than life. It didn't have to depend upon fact checking

327
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 5: at all.

328
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,159
Speaker 3: He'd amp up the action no matter what, and that

329
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,200
Speaker 3: became his trademark. He became one of the top pulp

330
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 3: fiction writers of all time. Before you know, he was

331
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,280
Speaker 3: aspiring to high art, he was spending these time on

332
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 3: these novels that didn't make him any money. He had

333
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,320
Speaker 3: enormous expenses, not only the bookies that he owed money to,

334
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 3: but also you know, he had a family of five kids.

335
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,000
Speaker 3: He had to make a living. He had to bring

336
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 3: money home, and he owed money to the irs. He

337
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,879
Speaker 3: owed money to his family, he owed money to the bookkeepers,

338
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,439
Speaker 3: and he kept gambling, he kept eating, he kept living

339
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,919
Speaker 3: this life that was just way beyond his means.

340
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 4: And as much as he aspired to high art, it

341
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 4: seems like he was almost destined to write pulp fiction.

342
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 4: I mean, after eight years doing it, he was pretty

343
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 4: much the most successful of any of them.

344
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but he was not making a huge amount

345
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 3: of money.

346
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, I believe we got something like one hundred and

347
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 5: fifty dollars something like that for the week.

348
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 3: So he went back to his publisher and said, you know,

349
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 3: I'm ready for my third book, my third novel, and

350
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 3: his publisher said, forget about it, Mario. They weren't ready

351
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 3: to assign him a third book. And one of the

352
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:42,160
Speaker 3: editors said, well, you know, if the Fortunate Pilgrim had

353
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,959
Speaker 3: a little bit more of that mafia stuff in it,

354
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,719
Speaker 3: maybe it would sell. And those words rang and Mario

355
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 3: Puzo's head a little bit more of that mafia stuff.

356
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,879
Speaker 4: And that's when it all clicked for him. He remembered

357
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 4: how he had been engrossed by the Volacci hearings.

358
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,920
Speaker 3: It's like a scene out of a movie. I mean,

359
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 3: here's this overweight, overwrought in debt writer. And he pays

360
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 3: ten bucks for the ten volume transcripts of the Kufaver hearings,

361
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,640
Speaker 3: and he gets access to his friend Peter Mass's book

362
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 3: on the Bolacchi hearings, and he gets a lot of

363
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 3: other research, and he sits down in his basement and

364
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 3: he cranks out a ten page outline and he takes

365
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 3: it to his agent, the legendary Candido Dinadio, and she

366
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,120
Speaker 3: sends it out to various publishers, and much to Mario's surprise,

367
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 3: one of them gives him five thousand dollars. And what

368
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 3: does he do? Of course, he spends the money. He

369
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,919
Speaker 3: doesn't work on the book. God, seriously, Yes, he gambles.

370
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 3: He spends some money on his family, obviously, and soon

371
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 3: the money is all gone.

372
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 4: But the important thing is that he has a fire

373
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,879
Speaker 4: lit under him and he has to deliver the book.

374
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 3: Not so fascinate than there's one place a struggling writer

375
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 3: can turn to for some fast cash.

376
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 4: This must be when he goes to Hollywood. Allegedly, Evan says,

377
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 4: Puzzo shows up at the gates of Paramount thirty five

378
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 4: pages under his arm, looking broke, and sells the option

379
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 4: of Paramount for twelve five.

380
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 3: And Mario claims he sold the option through his agent

381
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 3: and the story editor at Paramount, and then he never

382
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 3: even went to California.

383
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 4: Well, regardless of what happened, he sold the option to Paramount.

384
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 3: For big money for Mario too, twelve five hundred.

385
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 4: So now he writes the book.

386
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 3: Yes, he goes home. He walks down the stairs to

387
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 3: his basement, and there between the pool table and the

388
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 3: constant racket of his five kids. A mafia family rises

389
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 3: up from his typewriter, and what a family it is.

390
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 3: He gets the name from a town in Sicily, one

391
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 3: of the most mafia invested towns in the country, Corleone.

392
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 3: There's Don Vito Corleone, the godfather. There's the eldest son

393
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 3: and heir apparent, Santino, known as Sonny. There's the middle son,

394
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 3: the poorest, suffering, subservient, Fredo. And there's the youngest, the future,

395
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 3: the college boy who chose to enlist in the military

396
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 3: instead of the mafia. Michael Mario, of course, claimed he

397
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 3: had never met an honest to goodness gangster, but he

398
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 3: looked for inspiration wherever he could. One story I just

399
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,239
Speaker 3: loved from when he was writing the book was that

400
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 3: one night in nineteen sixty six, the author Gaytalise and

401
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 3: his wife Nan invited Mario to dinner at the home

402
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 3: of Talisea's aunt, Susan Peleggi. And Susan Pelegi, of course,

403
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 3: is the mother of the also famous writer Nick Poleggi,

404
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 3: who had gone to write the novel Wise.

405
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 4: Guy, which was the foundation for Goodfellas.

406
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 3: Exactly, and Gaytalse had written the organized crime classic Honor

407
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 3: Thy Father, and so here's a newcomer to the realm,

408
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 3: Mario Puzzo, the author of the Fourthcoming Godfather the same table.

409
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 3: So he takes one look at Nantelice, who'd grown up

410
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 3: on the you know, up pretty side, who was from

411
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 3: a different world, very genteel educated, and he immediately found

412
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 3: a model for the wife of Michael Corleone.

413
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 5: Kay.

414
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 4: So he was really pulling from all around him for inspiration.

415
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 3: That was the brilliance of Mario Puzo that he would

416
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 3: find inspiration in unlikely places. So another thing I was

417
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 3: able to discover is that Mario, being Mario and loving

418
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 3: Las Vegas more than any other place on Earth, probably

419
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 3: would go to Las Vegas regularly and gamble at, among

420
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 3: other places, the Sands Hotel. And I was able to

421
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 3: interview ed Walters, who worked as a pit boss at

422
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 3: the Sands. Tell me when you first saw Mario Puzzoo.

423
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 5: Came to Vegas. He has to play and he has

424
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 5: Vegas ARONI.

425
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 3: He was a relint being he played a Roulin and

426
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 3: he said that Mario would come in and gamble and

427
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 3: the same time asked questions for his forthcoming book about the.

428
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 6: Mob he was a little pudgy guy, and I met him.

429
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 6: So he was talking to this dealer on the roulette wheels,

430
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 6: and I was on the wheels at that time, and

431
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 6: I understanding, I'd listen to I'd answer question with all

432
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 6: he'd asked questions about.

433
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 5: Sinatra and a mob and honey and because of me.

434
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 6: Then I opened up about because he had things wrong,

435
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 6: and I said, oh no, you got.

436
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 5: To mix up. The mob and the mafia are not

437
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 5: the same thing.

438
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,719
Speaker 6: He got the mafia all Italians, the old blood guys

439
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 6: from a certain place of thing or the momb a difference,

440
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 6: and then I trained them.

441
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 5: They outfit all his terms.

442
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 3: And of course Ed Walters, who knew a bit about

443
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 3: the mob because he had come from New York City

444
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 3: where he had known a lot of people that were,

445
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,959
Speaker 3: let's say, somehow connected, told Mario a bit, you know,

446
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 3: to keep him gambling there. And Mario would ask questions

447
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 3: about who who and what was what? And as long

448
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 3: as he kept gambling, Ed Walters kept talking.

449
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 5: Was he taking notes and everything while you were telling

450
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 5: him this? No, he didn't have first, but then he

451
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 5: started to.

452
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 3: And pretty soon Mario had an insight into the Vegas

453
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 3: aspect of the mob, which figured into the Godfather quite

454
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 3: a bit.

455
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 6: He'd say, so, Eddie, tell me how keep this Saunder

456
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 6: in the mob? And I said, haul it all it hold,

457
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 6: I said, Sanra ain't in the bob.

458
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 5: He said, guys told me in the mom I said,

459
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 5: out of shit, I SAIDs ran in the mob. He

460
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 5: worked for us, he said, fucking entertainer. And he thought, wow,

461
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 5: that's interesting. So Mario would be playing while he's talking

462
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 5: to him. Yeah, yeah, all the time. Oh, he couldn't

463
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 5: never just sit there and take notes.

464
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 6: No, why they were Oh we weret a fucking guy

465
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 6: sitting in a n because he don't take a notes?

466
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 5: So you let him do it because he was playing, Yes,

467
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 5: because he's playing. Oh so that was good for you,

468
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 5: they're yeah, of course I told some people I was

469
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 5: writing a book from shit on the fine the guy

470
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 5: that was sitting there takeing. What should we come down to?

471
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 5: What do you write a book? Ye? Get the front?

472
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 4: Are So do you think Mario knew he had to

473
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 4: do something different here? I mean you mentioned his daughter

474
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 4: Dorothy saying that he couldn't have known this book would

475
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 4: be a success.

476
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 3: No, of course, he didn't think it was going to

477
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 3: be a great success. While he was writing, he was

478
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 3: writing as he always did, he liked to say, for

479
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: a paycheck. But at the same time he had decided

480
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 3: to give up on high art and those aspirations to

481
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 3: be a Doustoyevski or something like that, you know, to

482
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 3: be a fine art writer. He was writing a sensational

483
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 3: story about a sensational family in a sensational world, and

484
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 3: he had no aspirations of writing high art. He wanted

485
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 3: to turn this book into bucks. He wanted to make

486
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 3: money on the god bother.

487
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 4: Funnily enough, with his back against the wall, he ends

488
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 4: up turning out the most dust of skiesque of all

489
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 4: of his novels.

490
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it. It became something of a masterpiece.

491
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 3: I mean, I wouldn't say it was, you know, incredible literature,

492
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 3: but at the same time it was a page turner,

493
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 3: a pot boiler. It had all the attributes of Valley

494
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 3: of the Dolls or something like that. But said in

495
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: the world of organized crime, I don't think he expected

496
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: it to do what it did. Though still I think

497
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: he thought he was going to, you know, write a

498
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 3: book for money, get his five thousand dollars advance and

499
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 3: maybe some royalties, pay off some debts, and then get

500
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 3: onto the next project. Instead, it took the world by storm.

501
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 4: Well, and when he was down in that basement and

502
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 4: the kids were screaming, he would shout, quiet, don't you

503
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 4: know I'm writing a bestseller here?

504
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? But I think that was a joke. You know,

505
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 3: the kids would laugh, he would laugh. I think he

506
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 3: had no idea that he was writing a bestseller, And

507
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 3: I don't think he ever dreamed The Godfather would become

508
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 3: a national bestseller and a model for possibly the greatest

509
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 3: movie of all time.

510
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 4: When he does eventually finish the book, what happens?

511
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 3: So he leaves the pages with his agent, Candido di Nadio,

512
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 3: and in true Mario Puzo's fashion, he takes his money,

513
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 3: He takes his family, and he flies off to Europe

514
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 3: for a big vacation with lots of food and gambling.

515
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 4: But isn't he still broke?

516
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 3: He's broken than he ever has been. He doesn't have

517
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 3: the money to go to Europe. He finances the trip

518
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 3: by getting cash advances on his credit card. He and

519
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: his family have a great time, but when he returns

520
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 3: home he's eight grand in debt. Can you imagine eight

521
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: grand back then is a fortune. He goes straight to

522
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 3: his agent's office and hopes that she can, as he

523
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: would later write, pull a slick magazine assignment out of

524
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: her sleeve and bail him out. Instead, she informs him

525
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 3: that Putnam, his publisher, has offered money for the paperback

526
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 3: rights to the Godfather. And Mario goes how much? And

527
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 3: she goes three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars. Wow.

528
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 4: Even now, that's a really good offer. So does he

529
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 4: take it?

530
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: Well, he doesn't believe it. He says, this must be

531
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: some kind of Madison Avenue. Come on. He thinks they're joking.

532
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 3: After all, the biggest advance up to that point for

533
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 3: paperback rights had been four hundred thousand. So Candida Denaudio,

534
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 3: his agent, picks up the bone, calls his editor at Putlam,

535
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: Bill targ and the editor says the amount is not correct.

536
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 3: The offer had already gone up to four hundred thousand.

537
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 4: Wow.

538
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 3: And when the dust had settled and the deal was done,

539
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 3: Mario Puzo had sold the paperback rights to the Godfather

540
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: for four hundred and ten thousand dollars, setting a new record.

541
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 4: Does he get that all? At once, of course.

542
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,719
Speaker 3: Coruse not. They give him one hundred thousand dollars and

543
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 3: he takes it to the bank where he said the

544
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 3: teller had always, you know, looked at him in a

545
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 3: skance when he needed money or you know, cash his

546
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 3: little checks, and he showed him one hundred thousand dollars

547
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 3: just to watch him grovel. He said. He quit his

548
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: job at magazine management, and he went home and promptly

549
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 3: spent the one hundred thousand. And he was back at

550
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: his publishers a few months later saying, could you give

551
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 3: me another hundred And they said, Mario, we just gave

552
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 3: you a hundred thousand, and he said, one hundred grand

553
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: doesn't last forever.

554
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 4: Well, broke or not. The Godfather was published on March tenth,

555
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty nine, and it shot to the top of

556
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 4: the best seller list.

557
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it was an instant success.

558
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 4: But Puzo is sort of the most critical about the

559
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,959
Speaker 4: lack of artistic merit and The Godfather it's not as

560
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 4: good as the preceding two novels. He said, I wrote

561
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 4: it to make money.

562
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, Puso said, if he knew it was going to

563
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 3: be such a hit, he would have written a lot better,

564
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 3: But The Godfather was a sensation. The reviews were ecstatic.

565
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 3: Even the New York Times gave it a rave pozo.

566
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 3: All of a sudden, this nobody writer begins living very large.

567
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 3: He's a superstar on his way to becoming one of

568
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 3: the best selling writers in the world. He's on the

569
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 3: Today Show, he's being courted in restaurants. All of a sudden,

570
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 3: Champagne would appear at his table from a certain interested

571
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 3: party across the room, which were made men who felt

572
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 3: sure that he would have some kind of insight information,

573
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 3: or maybe he was a man himself. He became a superstar.

574
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 3: The book spent sixty seven weeks on the bestseller list.

575
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 4: Miraculously, his vow in the gutter to become rich and

576
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 4: famous had suddenly become true.

577
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: And in Hollywood too. All of a sudden, Bob Evans

578
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: remembered the dead broke writer who appeared in his office

579
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 3: with those thirty five pages under his arm.

580
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 6: And the book came out and it became the biggest

581
00:31:59,280 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 6: book of the day.

582
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: The only problem the distribution department at Paramount didn't want

583
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 3: to make the movie.

584
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: Nobody wanted to make it. As a matter of fact,

585
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: Paramount refused to make it for a while.

586
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 5: They said, mafia films don't sell.

587
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 3: We did the cover two years ago failed, so you're

588
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 3: going to make this. Apparently, the studio told Evans that

589
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 3: the only way it could be made was if he

590
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 3: could do it for under two million dollars. So Evans

591
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 3: turned to a producer at Paramount who is known for

592
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 3: getting stuff made on the cheap. The soon to be

593
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 3: legendary Already, I get a call worker. Do I want

594
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 3: to produce The Guard Father? I got of the Joe? Yeah,

595
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 3: of course, that was my favorite book. I never read it.

596
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 3: He'd went happy in New York, could be Jolie Budor.

597
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 3: So I go to New York. I read the book

598
00:32:47,880 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: on the Plane that Fell a Low, Leave the Gun,

599
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: Take the Canoli. As a production of Airmail and iHeartMedia.

600
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 4: The podcast is based on the book of the same name,

601
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 4: written by our very own Mark Seal.

602
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 3: Our producer is Tina Mullen.

603
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 4: Research assistance by Jack Sullivan.

604
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: Jonathan Dressler was our development producer.

605
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 4: Our music supervisor is Randall Poster. Our executive producers are

606
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 4: Meet Nathan King, Mark Sieal, Doan Fagan, and Graydon Carter.

607
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Bridget Arseno and everyone at CDM Studios.

608
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 4: A comprehensive list of sources and acknowledgments can be found

609
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 4: in Mark Seal's book Leave the Gun, Take the Canoli,

610
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 4: published by Gallery Books. An imprint of Simon and Schuster