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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan

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Speaker 1: Ever told your protection of I Heeart Radio. So for

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Speaker 1: today's question, I'm going to do it in spirit of

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Speaker 1: this episode. What what movie? What children's movie do you

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Speaker 1: think scared you the most? It was meant for kids?

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Speaker 1: What was terrifying? It wasn't meant for kids? Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I have a few because I definitely had a giant

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Speaker 1: imagination of things coming to get me in like insignificant

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Speaker 1: things that shouldn't have been a big deal. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, hell no, Um, we're gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: about one of the movies specifically for sure, so I'll

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Speaker 1: leave that one. Yeah, for surprise. It was really the

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Speaker 1: title or somewhere, but actually I wasn't a kid and

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Speaker 1: it came on later, but it freaked me out. Was

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Speaker 1: the Ernest Saves holloway yea, those snotty trolls. I was

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Speaker 1: thinking about this the other day. I was like, what

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Speaker 1: other movies really freaked me out? And that was one

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Speaker 1: of them, and I was like why, why, why did

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Speaker 1: that have to happen? And for for me, like I

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Speaker 1: actually watched a lot of really bad nineties eighties horror

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Speaker 1: movies growing up and so I think I was in

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Speaker 1: my teens preteens. We were doing that. We were being

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Speaker 1: rebellious and watching like House of Wax and that stuff

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Speaker 1: really scared me. But those were were supposed to be scary,

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Speaker 1: and even though you know, earn a scary stupid was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be kind of scary, it would really freaked

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Speaker 1: me out. Yeah. I can't really remember much about that movie,

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Speaker 1: but I do remember being unsettled by it, So I

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Speaker 1: don't think you're alone. Yeah. Look, they turned into treat people,

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Speaker 1: they turned into like, yeah, carvings of themselves. It was weird.

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Speaker 1: So what about you? Yes, uh, well, I've probably mentioned

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Speaker 1: it before, but I have an entire list of what

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Speaker 1: I called terrifying children's movies, and there's like twenty movies

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Speaker 1: on there. And I was an interesting kid in that.

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Speaker 1: Like I watched Nightmare on Elm Street, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: for nothing, no fear, but like, the one that scared

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Speaker 1: me the most was a little Nemo Adventures in Slummerland.

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Speaker 1: What is that? I don't know. It's a like comic,

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Speaker 1: I think, um, but it scared me so badly I

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Speaker 1: asked my dad to remove it from the house like

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Speaker 1: I would not have it, and so he like took

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Speaker 1: it out and donated it. And I haven't seen it since,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes when I bring it up, people do you remember,

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Speaker 1: and they remember it being very scary as a kid,

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Speaker 1: and I definitely also on there is the secretive name

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Speaker 1: that terrified me. H, Legend. I haven't seen Legend, but

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Speaker 1: it's and it's on. I was on Primary King and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe it's time has brought up Legend too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you know I have talked about this before

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Speaker 1: because Tim Curry as Satan the Devil one of the

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Speaker 1: scariest scenes. I remember, like I'm still like in his voice,

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Speaker 1: deep and growling at you and you just knew like

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Speaker 1: you were going to get eaten up. And of course

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Speaker 1: it was Tom Cruise's first movie. I think we've talked

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Speaker 1: about it on our show before. I think it was

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Speaker 1: candless and it was really baffling as a child and

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Speaker 1: kind of like embarrassing to watch. I'm like, why is

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Speaker 1: he handless? Well, yeah, that is very baffling. But speaking

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Speaker 1: of Tim Curry, I actually recently we watched one on

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Speaker 1: the list freen Guly, which is not it does not

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Speaker 1: hold up, but I can see why it scared me,

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Speaker 1: and Tim Curry as a musical number in it, so

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Speaker 1: it's worth watching. But and a Dark Crystal, Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: The Wizard of Us too, Yeah, not the first one,

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Speaker 1: the second one. I didn't know there was a too.

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Speaker 1: Not gonna lie. Oh oh, it's all about depression. It's

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Speaker 1: so upsetting. Oh, like they don't believe that she went

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Speaker 1: to OZ. So she goes through like a lecture, shock therapy.

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Speaker 1: It's awful. Yeah, intense. Yeah, Rockadoodle. That one doesn't hold

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Speaker 1: up either, but it scared me. Yeah, Once a fun

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Speaker 1: a Forest. All of these are pollution based children's movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are you scared that the world was going to end?

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Speaker 1: I did. I actually was really worried about that, and

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Speaker 1: I had a whole list. When I was nine years old,

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Speaker 1: I wrote my bucket list, and most of it was like,

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Speaker 1: if you read it now, it reads as though I

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Speaker 1: thought the world was going to end it in any

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Speaker 1: moment um. So I guess, well, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: one movie that did scare a lot of children, because

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Speaker 1: we're examining two movies today because it's coming up in

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Speaker 1: my favorite season, which is Halloween. My favorite well, I

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Speaker 1: call it a season you do call it a season

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Speaker 1: like us what it was? Two weeks ago you sent

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Speaker 1: me an email saying, okay, this time, what are we

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Speaker 1: gonna do for the Halloween specials? What horor movies are

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Speaker 1: we gonna do? Like, let's get a whole months worth

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Speaker 1: the plan? Well, Paul is my favorite season and Halloween

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Speaker 1: is my favorite holiday. Uh, And we talked about which

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Speaker 1: is all the time. Will take any opportunity to talk

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Speaker 1: about which is. So today we're doing two movies that

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Speaker 1: I would argue our children's movies but definitely scared a

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Speaker 1: lot of people and are enjoyed by adults, hocus Pocus

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Speaker 1: and The Witches. And then we're gonna have a conversation

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Speaker 1: on depiction of which is in children's movies in general. Now,

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Speaker 1: hocus Pocus didn't scare me. I know I've mentioned it

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Speaker 1: on this show before, but I rented it from a

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Speaker 1: Blockbuster so much as a kid that the guy I

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Speaker 1: remember his face, he was like, you know what, you

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Speaker 1: can just have it? Because I kept renting it and

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Speaker 1: my parents refused. They're like, no, she can't, she cannot.

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Speaker 1: How dare you don't you hand this to you? And

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Speaker 1: my grandparents offered to buy it for me, and they

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Speaker 1: also said no, don't give it to her, But behind

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Speaker 1: their backs, I I saved up my money and I

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Speaker 1: bought it from the blockbuster guy a really cheat price.

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Speaker 1: I think he sold it to me for like two

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Speaker 1: dollars um. And then I watched it so much my

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Speaker 1: parents banned from the house and I did not rewatch it.

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Speaker 1: So this was probably like eight to nine. I didn't

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Speaker 1: really watch it again until college. It's a good movie.

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Speaker 1: It's a good like. I loved it, and I love

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Speaker 1: Bette Midler. You know this. Everything she does to me

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Speaker 1: is just how our house movie. It doesn't matter what

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Speaker 1: it is, like, I grew up watching her. She did

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Speaker 1: one where she was twins with another one it was

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Speaker 1: I just love a Big Business. It was called big Business.

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Speaker 1: I love that movie. But hello, First Wives Club, Like,

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Speaker 1: I made you watch it because how much I love

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Speaker 1: her as an individual, but then as a cast phenomenal

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Speaker 1: and yeah, hocus Pocus, she makes that movie. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: she it's a delight to watch. Yes, And certainly, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the stuff we're gonna get into how it has become

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Speaker 1: a cult classic, and I certainly don't go a Halloween

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Speaker 1: without watching it at least once. We've actually already watched it,

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Speaker 1: Samantha and I and the Witches. We did a double feature. Um,

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Speaker 1: and apparently there is a Hocus Focus too in production.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be a Disney Plus exclusive. I was

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Speaker 1: very confused by it because there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: back and forth over who was going to be in it.

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Speaker 1: It was the original cast going to come back. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I guess maybe COVID, because this is right

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Speaker 1: in March the announced it, so maybe COVID really got

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Speaker 1: in the way because I couldn't really pin down any

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Speaker 1: more details other than that. And there is a writer

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Speaker 1: and a director on board, but I don't know, so

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Speaker 1: I guess look out for that. There's also a board game. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think it just came out, just came out really yeah,

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Speaker 1: like it's it was four Halloween. They were getting it ready.

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Speaker 1: So there's a board game if that's your kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: I really can't tell you much about the game play,

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Speaker 1: but I like the cover of it. And there is

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Speaker 1: a book. There's a book that analyzes the main theme

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Speaker 1: was a focus postus, which the author identified as home nostalgia, festivity, horror, Broadway,

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Speaker 1: sibling rivalry, virginity, and feminism. It's called hocus Pocus in Focus.

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Speaker 1: The Thinking Fans Guide to Disney's Halloween Classic is by

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Speaker 1: Aaron Wallace. And there's another book from Hocus Focus and

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Speaker 1: the all new sequel that follows Max and Allison's daughter

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Speaker 1: Poppy too. It sounds like she's trying to prove that

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Speaker 1: the story they've told her isn't true. So she goes

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Speaker 1: to the Sanderson Museum and I'm sure nothing goes wrong,

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Speaker 1: because nothing ever goes wrong. Um. And then as as

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about this, I remembered that last August

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Speaker 1: to August ago and it was last August. It was

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Speaker 1: only a year ago. Oh my god, it feels like

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Speaker 1: so long do Um. Samantha and I were in Orlando

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Speaker 1: for podcast conference and we went to Magic Kingdom and

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Speaker 1: because it's Disney, even though it was August, uh, they

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Speaker 1: were already celebrating Halloween. And we saw the Halloween special

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Speaker 1: at Magic king them and it was hocus Pocus based,

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Speaker 1: and I just remember, like the entire crowd groaned when

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Speaker 1: they said how old it? Yeah, they literally said it's

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Speaker 1: been thirty something years since we would last appeared, or

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Speaker 1: something along those lines. Twenty something years. And Lauren was

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Speaker 1: with us from Savor, and three of us looked at

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Speaker 1: each other, and I think I really had a moment

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Speaker 1: of crisis. I was like, wait, what what just happened?

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Speaker 1: And I had to count back to like prove, oh no,

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Speaker 1: that's not right, and then I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: it is, and I'm going to sit down now. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was hilarious. They grown that reverberated through the crowd.

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Speaker 1: Why did they have to be specific and say it's

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Speaker 1: been so many years sisters, And I'm like what, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that they definitely were. I feel like they were messing

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Speaker 1: with the crowd of that one. Um on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the coin. I've also mentioned on this show

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Speaker 1: how I never watched The Witches as a kid because

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Speaker 1: we we owned it, but the cover terrified me. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, Samantha has fixed that and I have now

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Speaker 1: seen it. It's also on Netflix if you want to

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Speaker 1: check it out. Is it on Netflix now? Okay? Because

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Speaker 1: I just have my own copy. I have searched for

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Speaker 1: a copy for years trying to find that movie, and

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Speaker 1: I finally was able to find a copy and it

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Speaker 1: was really expensive, surprisingly, not really but like more expensive

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Speaker 1: than others, and like, wow, Okay, okay, And of course

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Speaker 1: it's not like read digitally mastered or anything. It's just

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Speaker 1: it is as bad as it was. You know, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know it then, but the way it was made whatever.

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Speaker 1: But what did you think after seeing it? Uh? I

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Speaker 1: really liked it. I loved Angelica Houston. I can see

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Speaker 1: why it's scary, Like, oh, my kids, it really scared them,

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Speaker 1: not only in kind of the creepy puppet effects um,

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Speaker 1: but also getting into the history and who was behind this,

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Speaker 1: it makes a lot more sense some shots because I

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Speaker 1: was watching it and I was like, this has the

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Speaker 1: vibe of one of those really kind of creepy children

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Speaker 1: British shows, kind of like a quiet, understated, ominous undertone

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Speaker 1: that something is just off. Um. So yeah, no, I

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Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. It was unsettling in a way I

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Speaker 1: couldn't quite pinpoint um. And it is different in terms

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Speaker 1: of while these are both children's movies, with which is

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Speaker 1: in them, Hocus Focus is much more about like Bumbling,

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Speaker 1: which is who want to live forever, whereas the Witches

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Speaker 1: this is about witches who want to kill all children, right,

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Speaker 1: Like it's just about vehemently hitting all children and getting

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Speaker 1: rid of them. In the world and how awful they

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Speaker 1: are and they are nothing but evil. Yeah, and that's

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Speaker 1: a pretty disturbing right when you think about it. Um,

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Speaker 1: do you remember the first time you saw it. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember the first time I saw it. I just

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Speaker 1: know the motions and being so freaked out. But like, also,

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Speaker 1: it's just like it. We'll talk a bit more like

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Speaker 1: this all the rest of the films around that time.

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Speaker 1: It's like, why does so much tragedy have to happen

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Speaker 1: to make up a story? Especially for children? Children is

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Speaker 1: about to say it's true, It's true. I've been giving

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Speaker 1: that a lot of thought lately. Actually. Okay, so let's

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Speaker 1: start with hocus Pocus, which I feel like we really

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Speaker 1: don't have to go into too much detail, but you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll give an overview. Hocus Pocus was a Disney film

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Speaker 1: directed by Kenny Ortega that stars Yes, Bette Midler, Sarah

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Speaker 1: Jessica Parker, Kathy and Jimmy and thora birch Um. I mean,

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Speaker 1: right there, those are all women right in the main

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Speaker 1: cast there. Even though the main story is about like

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Speaker 1: the dude in theory, he really just is kind of

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Speaker 1: not ends up not me, Like he carries the storyline.

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Speaker 1: But he's not the storyline. Yeah, he's not what you

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Speaker 1: remember about that movie for sure. It's a comedy that

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Speaker 1: follows three witches, the Sanderson's sisters, as they terrorize Salem, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: one Halloween night. It also is the story of the

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Speaker 1: old older brother younger sister dynamic, that kind of sibling rivalry.

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Speaker 1: It's full of hijinks, talking cats, random musical numbers, and

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Speaker 1: so much nineties, so so so much nineties. Look at

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Speaker 1: that you got like the tight ice shakes. You've got

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Speaker 1: this like in running insult of kind of California liberalism,

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Speaker 1: Hollywood l a judgment going on jabbos, which have you

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Speaker 1: ever heard anyone called boobs jabbows in your life? Was

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Speaker 1: that a thing? Yeah? Yeah, so to me, yabbos is

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Speaker 1: very much like the valley talk that you hear of

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Speaker 1: sometimes in the nineties and nineties. Were I think because

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Speaker 1: you actually spoiler alert watched Heathers they say it in

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Speaker 1: that too, Did they really? Oh yeah they did? And

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, yeah, I thought this was a

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Speaker 1: totally made up thing. Wow, okay, um yeah, they're also

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Speaker 1: um this whole idea of virgin lighting the black than candle,

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Speaker 1: which We're going to talk about more in a second.

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Speaker 1: But I read a lot of essays about how if

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Speaker 1: you yes essays on this movie if you really think

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Speaker 1: about this is a Disney movie that's preoccupied with sex

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Uh. And apparently some people

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Speaker 1: think Max did have sex at the end of the

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Speaker 1: second act. Let's talk. Samantha's face tells it all. We'll

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Speaker 1: get into that later too. Also, someone in my building's

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Speaker 1: WiFi has named black Thing Candle and I love it.

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Speaker 1: That makes me very happy. You need to be yes.

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Speaker 1: She's very u feminist. I could till by the bumper

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Speaker 1: stickers on her car, and I finally got to meet

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Speaker 1: her from a distance, and I think where we'd be

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Speaker 1: very fast friends indeed. Um. So, when this movie came out,

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Speaker 1: it did receive mixed reviews at best. Actually, I think

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Speaker 1: on Raight Tomatoes it's got a twenty seven percent yes

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Speaker 1: yes uh. And it lost money at release. Um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Some places said it lost money. It certainly

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Speaker 1: didn't make money. Uh. It did come out in July,

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Speaker 1: so it's a Halloween movie that came out in July,

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Speaker 1: so that a lot of people were like, well, that

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Speaker 1: was probably part of the problem. Um, but it absolutely

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Speaker 1: did go on to become a beloved cult classic. Like

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Speaker 1: millions of people every year watch it on free Form,

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Speaker 1: which used to be ABC Family. But when I say millions,

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Speaker 1: like eight millions. They already released their October playlists. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you've seen it actually popped up and

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Speaker 1: it's on there for sure. Oh yeah they I read

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Speaker 1: an interview with somebody who's head of programming there and

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Speaker 1: she said it's like an event like Pocus Focus. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I watch it every year. My dream, one of my dreams,

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Speaker 1: one of my cosplay dreams, is to one day do

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Speaker 1: the Sanderson Sisters with two other people. Their costumes are

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Speaker 1: pretty complicated though, yeah. Yeah, and whoever does when he

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Speaker 1: is gonna have to really have the hair, oh my gosh. Yes.

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Speaker 1: To get a bit further into the plot, but not

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Speaker 1: too much because I do think most of you have

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Speaker 1: probably seen it. The movie opens with Thackeray Banks trying

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Speaker 1: to save his younger sister from the dastard leie Sanderson Sisters.

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Speaker 1: And yes, his name is Thachery, not Zachary, as a

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Speaker 1: lot of people thought. Um, and the Sanderson Sisters are

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Speaker 1: these witches that live in the woods near his home.

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Speaker 1: The witches drain his sister Emily of her youth and

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Speaker 1: her life to make themselves appear younger and achieve immortality,

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Speaker 1: and they turn Thackery into a cat. After they discover him. However,

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Speaker 1: the sisters are caught by an angry mob of townspeople

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Speaker 1: and they are hung, but not before they and their

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Speaker 1: wonderful book cast a spell to bring them back if

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Speaker 1: a virgin lights the black Fame candle on all Hallow's Eve.

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Speaker 1: Cut to you present day, which is the nineties and Max,

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Speaker 1: who is the main character again purportedly Um a teenager

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Speaker 1: whose family just moved from l A to Salem, and

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Speaker 1: he is oh so ext teenage not happy about it.

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Speaker 1: Um Salem is in the midst of their annual Halloween celebrations.

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Speaker 1: Is a really big deal there, including telling the legend

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Speaker 1: of the Sanderson sisters, and Max also teenage. Ankstanty does

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Speaker 1: not buy into it, is not into it, and this

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Speaker 1: leads to a confrontation with Allison and girls into about

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Speaker 1: him being kind of I don't believe in Halloween and

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Speaker 1: she's like, well, actually, and then he gives her his

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Speaker 1: his digits phones. So it's such a smooth operator you

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Speaker 1: certainly think so, yes, and only to be rebuffed and

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Speaker 1: she gives back his number. I did love that um.

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Speaker 1: Despite his protesting, Max has to take his younger sister, Danny,

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Speaker 1: who was dressed as a witch out trigger treating who

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Speaker 1: wants to take care of their siblings come on and

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Speaker 1: they end up at Allison's house surprise, and Max, trying

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Speaker 1: to show off, convinces her to take them to the

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Speaker 1: close Sanderson's Sister museums, even though Danny, who we should

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Speaker 1: all believed really doesn't want to um and Max stupidly

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Speaker 1: likes the black flame candle to prove the sisters aren't

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Speaker 1: real after he asks Allison to do it, but she declines,

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Speaker 1: implying she either has more sexual experience than Max and

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Speaker 1: isn't shy to share it, and or is not going

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Speaker 1: to be peer pressured into messing with something she doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to mess with. Yeah, I interpret that differently. But

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Speaker 1: of course the sisters are real and they are resurrected,

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Speaker 1: and they proceed to run amuck throughout Salem and song

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Speaker 1: Um as they only have until sunrise to drain the

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Speaker 1: life force of children or they will turn into stone.

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Speaker 1: After a series of confrontations, the which is set their

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Speaker 1: sights on Danny, determined to drain her, of course, the

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Speaker 1: one who said don't do it. Um. And in the end,

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Speaker 1: Max drinks the last of their potions, so they had

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Speaker 1: to drain him instead of his sister. Before they can

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Speaker 1: do this, the sun rises and the senders and sisters

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Speaker 1: turned stone before shattering into dusts and then factary Banks

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Speaker 1: is freed of his cat form and reunites with his

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Speaker 1: sister in the spirit world role credits. Yes, and then

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Speaker 1: it's the book kind of looking around sound and then

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Speaker 1: it has kind of a post credit scene where it

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Speaker 1: implies that as long as the books around, maybe the

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Speaker 1: story is not done. Maybe. Yes, Yes, and I did

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Speaker 1: all of this from memories though, and it all mistakes

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Speaker 1: her mind, but I feel pretty confident, did it You

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Speaker 1: wrapped it up perfectly? Also, Yes, and yes, by the way,

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Speaker 1: Thachary is helping them throughout as a cat as a cat. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and yeah for for being a kid's movie, A lot

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Speaker 1: of this is about sex. Um. Some have even argued

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Speaker 1: that Max's virginity is an inversion of the Final Girl Show,

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Speaker 1: a pure male character being chased by female characters, which

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Speaker 1: I'd never thought of before. But that is very interesting

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Speaker 1: interpretation of it. I don't know how I feel about this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can see it. I can see it.

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Speaker 1: Others have rightly pointed out that he is mocked for

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Speaker 1: his virginity in a way that women would not have been.

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Speaker 1: That would have been a pure a sign of purity

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Speaker 1: in a that would have put them on a pedestal,

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Speaker 1: although I've also read other interpretations that he's not being

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Speaker 1: mocked for his virginity, he's being mocked for his stupidity

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Speaker 1: for lighting the candle. So uh, there is that. Um

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Speaker 1: it is odd thinking back to it like that. I

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Speaker 1: guess this idea of virginity, even as an eight year

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Speaker 1: old who watched this movie so much my parents banned it,

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Speaker 1: was already there. I don't know, I didn't have those thoughts.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think it that way to me, honestly, even

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Speaker 1: back then, to me, it was mocking this kid who

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Speaker 1: needed to show his masculinity by proving that he's not scared,

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Speaker 1: and that to me was what it was, more so

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Speaker 1: than anything else, just pretty much mocking toxic masculinity, which

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Speaker 1: I didn't know those terms then. But I'm like, come on, dude,

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Speaker 1: stop being that jerk. Yeah, I do. I think I

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Speaker 1: did it that way too, of like he was trying

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Speaker 1: so hard to show off and they were both saying like,

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Speaker 1: don't do it, and then he did it anyway. Um. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And some people do think that Mac that sex for

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Speaker 1: the first time with Allison at the end of the

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Speaker 1: second act when they think it's over and they're like

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Speaker 1: cuddling on the bed, and therefore read it as a

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Speaker 1: sex positive story. I've never ever thought that. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: I can see. I mean, you don't know face the

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Speaker 1: blood true, I mean it does say the black. My

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Speaker 1: innocent heart wants to say they just cuddled and made

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Speaker 1: out and probably broke up a week later. Your innocent heart,

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Speaker 1: my innocent cynical My innocent cynical heart wants to believe

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Speaker 1: it that way. But anyway, let's break down some of

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Speaker 1: the characters. It is led by three female anti heroines

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Speaker 1: who are sisters. First, which I do love, Winnifred Winnie

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Speaker 1: the leader, the smart one, obviously kind of a bully,

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Speaker 1: Sarah the sexy airhead but she'll kill you though after

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Speaker 1: she floats with you, yes, and then Mary the goofball nurturer,

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Speaker 1: and I have to like they kind of play that

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Speaker 1: same role Bette Midler and Sara Juska Parker and the

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Speaker 1: First Wives Clove. Yeah yeah, uh yeah, I agree with that. Um.

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Speaker 1: And if you look at those roles, um, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of interpretation is especially been done on Sarah's character,

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Speaker 1: you can read them as weaponizing society's dismissive attitude towards

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Speaker 1: women as sluts, spinsters, are witches because I mean this movie,

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Speaker 1: it's played for laps, it's a comedy, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: like Sarah, she even threatens that one dude, like they'll

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Speaker 1: kill you. Um, they are on the outskirts of gender norms.

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Speaker 1: And as we've talked about a lot with which is

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Speaker 1: most witches are but they ah. In this kind of

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Speaker 1: telling of these characters, it takes those because everyone dismisses them.

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Speaker 1: You see in the movie Everybody, but they are dangerous, um.

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Speaker 1: And people just are assuming, Oh, she's a spinster, she

402
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Speaker 1: can't do anything. Actually, she's a spinster and a witch

403
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: and you should be scared. Um. And this was in

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Speaker 1: contrast to a wave of which is as moral beings

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Speaker 1: to aspire to in the nineties like Willow from Buffy,

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Speaker 1: Sabrina and Charmed when we did our episode on the Craft.

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Speaker 1: The craft was also kind of in conflict with that

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Speaker 1: whole idea. But a lot of these which is coming

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Speaker 1: out during third wade feminism and the nineties were shifting

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Speaker 1: from the previous telling of Oh they're bad too. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: they're like paragons of good. Um. So this was kind

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Speaker 1: of an interesting take at the time of they were bad,

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Speaker 1: but they were also funny and you could relate to them.

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Speaker 1: You could connect with these sisters. Um. Yeah, they were

415
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Speaker 1: transgressors of gender roles. They were uh too sexy, too old,

416
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Speaker 1: too ambitious, too ugly. And this movie certainly plays a lot,

417
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Speaker 1: as do a lot of movies with which is uh

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Speaker 1: on the need versus want of children because they don't

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Speaker 1: they don't like children, They don't want children, but they

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00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: do need them right to continue their plans uh and

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Speaker 1: b immortal. Um. So that's the sisters. Then you have Max,

422
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: who's yea the kind of bro character older brother. You've

423
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: got Danny. It was definitely painted as the annoying little sister,

424
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: but she's certainly I don't know, I could see it

425
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: being told from her perspective, and it would we would

426
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: have a different reading on her character. But anyway, Alison,

427
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: who is the love interest but also very smart, uh,

428
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: which she figures out the salt circle and all that stuff. Um.

429
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: Then Zachary binks they believe to older brother lost his

430
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: sister Emily and was turned into a cat by the

431
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: Sanderson sisters. Many of my friends had a crush on him.

432
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was the heartthrow at that point. I

433
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: think he came around doing like Jonathan Taylor, Thomas and

434
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: all of them. So he been with the shaggy haired,

435
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: bowl cut hair dudes that everyone loved in those in

436
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: that time frame. It's just funny to me because he

437
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,959
Speaker 1: did spend I mean what you see him like that

438
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: for maybe four minutes and the rest of the movie

439
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: he's a cat. We'll take about Do you remember the

440
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: movie Casper? I never saw Casper. Oh well, so in

441
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: Casper you have Devin Sawa and Christina Ritchie Um and

442
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: Devin saw it is not even the voice of the

443
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: ghosts throughout the movie, which is animated the entire time,

444
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: pops up for fifteen seconds and everybody was like, I

445
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: love him, I'm not gonna lie. I was one of

446
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: them as well, because they were also in um other

447
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: movies and I'm like, yeah, but yeah, so it doesn't matter.

448
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: He also was one of the shaggy haired blonde kids

449
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: at that time frame. Okay, that's that's funny. I mean,

450
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: I guess it's whatever you want onto someone who's there

451
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: so little. I mean, it's not like you didn't get

452
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: to know Factory through the cat right exactly. He loved

453
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: his sibling, he tried to save people, He was cursed

454
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: just like everyone else. All Right, Okay, I got I

455
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: mean it's someone who loves fictional characters and is that

456
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: had a crush on a cartoon character before. I can't judge,

457
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: so that's fair. But yeah, speaking of boy crushes, at

458
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: this point, there is Billy Butcherson, who was the zombie boyfriend.

459
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: By the way, does he not look like the character

460
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: from Edward Scissor Hands A little bit? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.

461
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: Though he cheated on Winnie with Sarah, he was the

462
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: one who was punished by Winnie again sisters first, which

463
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: is kind of a relief. I mean, you don't you

464
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 1: kind of feel bad for him At the same time,

465
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: at least it's not women against women. Yeah. And then,

466
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: of course there are two male bullies that get hung

467
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: in cages after harassing the sisters, and of course they

468
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: pick on everybody at the school, so you kind of feel, yeah,

469
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: you kind of want them to be in those cages.

470
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: So there's a cameo by Penny Marshall and her brother

471
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: Gary Marshal, and they are spouses, yeah in this one,

472
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: which is quite funny and every way, but of course

473
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: I love the two of them anyway, So yes, I'm

474
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: just as a devil now I remember for sure, let's

475
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,719
Speaker 1: just be a running theme some kind of Penny Marshall

476
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: related fact in every movie episode. Amazing. Well, I know

477
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: Gary and Penny would put each other in each other's

478
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: films or have each other like Gary was in a

479
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: leak of their own opinion right, actually directed, but I

480
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: think they did that often. They were really close. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

481
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: um yeah. So that's pretty much hocus focusing. There's all

482
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: these themes of you know, sisterhood and sibling rivalry, but

483
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: also being protective of your sibling in particularly your sisters.

484
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: Um and I don't know, I I have a new

485
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: appreciation for uh because it is a very nostalgic film,

486
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: right where in certain movies, if you've seen enough, you're

487
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: not really paying attention to anything other than oh, this

488
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: part makes me feel warm because it reminds me of

489
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 1: all these other things. Or I can say this line

490
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: with gusto because I love it. Um. But yeah, now

491
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 1: I've especially thinking about the context of when it came out,

492
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: having these this close sisterly relationship and these characters who

493
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: are both funny but are bad and witches but everybody

494
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: loves them. It's pretty rare. Um. So I am very

495
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 1: excited for another rewatch, starting all over again. More witches. Yes, um.

496
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: So that's that for now, But now we need to

497
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: talk about the Witches. But first we're gonna pause for

498
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and

499
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsor. Right, So, we did want

500
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: to talk about these two movies together, the Witches and

501
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: hocus Pocas, because there are specifically made and geared as

502
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: children's movies, but they both have very interesting takes on

503
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: witches and how they represented so we thought it would

504
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: be an interesting contrast to each other. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

505
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: So The Witches is a movie originally adapted from the

506
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: classic novel written by Rhodes all Uh and by the way,

507
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: he did actually see this, and uh, he wasn't a

508
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: big fan of the movie. According to one report, he

509
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: felt as if the movie was quote utterly appalling because

510
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: of the changes which were happier than his That does

511
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: not surprise me, um these changes in the movie. And

512
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: it was produced by Jim Henson Productions and was apparently

513
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: the last movie he was personally involved in. And though

514
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: it wasn't actually a big hitting theaters either, critics were

515
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: fans of it. And it still has a Route Tomato

516
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: score of so it's better than August Focused. Yes, it

517
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: was even given three out of four stars by famous

518
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: film critic Robert Ebert. And yes, it also has a

519
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: big cult following. I guess I'm a part of that

520
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: cult obviously. Um So. The movie was directed by Nicholas Rogue,

521
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: who was already known for his horror movie Don't Look Now,

522
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: Which Annie you watched? Yes, I actually watched this right

523
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: March fourteenth, right when quarantine asserted and I was looking

524
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: for that gift of his Donald's something like it's not

525
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: done well. That guy where he points and he has

526
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: the look of horror on his face. But this that's

527
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: actually invasion of the body santrs so I watched this

528
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: whole movie waiting for that havenit It never did. But

529
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: then I watched Invasion of the Body Snatchers and I

530
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: loved it. But anyway, yeah, that's why when you told

531
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: me this, Samantha, I was like, oh, I can see it. Yeah.

532
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: So him being the director of this horror movie, he

533
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: had plenty of controversy under his belt and was a

534
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: surprising choice to direct a children's film, as most of

535
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: his works were seen as overly risque and even to

536
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: explicit at that time, and some of them movies were

537
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: shelved apparently because it was too much. And unsurprisingly, the

538
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: movie has been deemed by many people as the scariest

539
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: children's move be ever, and I would agree. And although

540
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: although I do love this movie, I was surprised to

541
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: see so many articles written about it this year. But

542
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: it turns out, as I said, this marks the thirtieth

543
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: anniversary of the film released, so it's been thirty years

544
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: since it's been released, as well as the fact that

545
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: they're now talking about doing a remake with Anne Hathaway

546
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: playing the Grand High Witch and directed by Robert Zemecka's

547
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: so that should be interesting. Um accidentally timely, Yeah, I

548
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: really do, really, and many have contended to argue that

549
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: this was one of the most terrifying movies ever made

550
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: for children. So there's a debate about like, is it

551
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: just terrifying because it's a children's movie or is it

552
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: just terrifying and why are children watching it? So Rogue

553
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: even stated that at one point his child watched some

554
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: of the dailies I guess, and his child was so

555
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: terrified that he realized that he needed to edit several

556
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: of the scenes. So I wonder what that looked like. Um,

557
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: And I definitely have lasting memories of many terrifying scenes

558
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: that kept me awake for sure. Yeah, oh no, I

559
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: can definitely see as I was watching it they were

560
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: scenes where I'm like, oh, I'm sure that would have

561
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: kept me up. Yep. I had a real weird thing

562
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: about paintings and getting trapped in paintings, you know. I

563
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: have a weird thing about like people in paintings and

564
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: whether they're watching they're watching me. Well maybe it came

565
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: from this maybe. So for the plot, we meet Luke

566
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: played by Jason Fisher and his grandmother Helga played by

567
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: Madge Setter and in Norway, and she's telling Luca always

568
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: caution your tales of witches, who not only walk among

569
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: all of us, but they actively work to get rid

570
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: of all of the children in the world. The witches, though,

571
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: are good at hiding among regular people and can actually

572
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: they can be spotted because they have a purple tint

573
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: in their eyes, a rash on their head as they

574
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: are bald and have to wear wigs. They wear gloves

575
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: because they have claws and no toes, so square feet,

576
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: and an obvious dislike of the smell of children two,

577
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: which is they smell like dog droppings. And this is

578
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: actually another interesting thing I noticed when I was thinking

579
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: about witches in children's movies is they often have like

580
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: a smell aversion two children and it's a It's usually

581
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: like some kind of waste by products, right. I remember

582
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: when she said droppings. It was so weird to me

583
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: being from Colla j, Georgia, and of course they're you know,

584
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: and I think Norway, and I'm like, wait, what droppings?

585
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: Was drippings? What are droppings? So much of it's fancier

586
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: than it really does. It's like it just made it

587
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: up so much more upscale. And of course the cleaner

588
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: they are, the worst. They smell. So to bring home

589
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: the reality of the dangers of these witches, Helga tells

590
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: of her friend who disappeared from their village. As the

591
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: family of Erica scrambles to find her, we see her

592
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: pop up in a painting that was recently purchased by

593
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: her father. Not only has she suddenly appeared in a painting,

594
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: but we see her reposition at different places at different times,

595
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: and she grows up in the painting until one day

596
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: she disappears. That's saying, freaked me out. Yeah. So we

597
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: come back to the present day and we meet the

598
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: parents as they rush off for their date event, leaving

599
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: Luke with his grandmother. And at this point he has

600
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: his first interaction with a witch. As he plays in

601
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: his treehouse. He meets a woman who tries to entice

602
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: him with chocolates into snake. By the way, that would

603
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: not work for me, but Lucas obviously too smart for

604
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: that and calls out for his grandmother, who, by the way,

605
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: is told by the witch that she could not hear him,

606
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: so she could not help him. Freaking yeah, that's his

607
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: freaky uh. Later, we come back to the sad fact

608
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: that Luke's parents have died in a car accident because yes,

609
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: obviously all children's movies must have some type of tragedy,

610
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: and he moves in with his grandmother, Helgan, and they

611
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: moved to England. In their new life, we see more

612
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: obstacles for the parents. Helga is diagnosed with diabetes and

613
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: it is told she must learn to manage her health.

614
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: So we cut to Luke and Helga going on a

615
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: much needed vacation in a very spanky hotel soon after

616
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: Luke's birthday, uh, in which he's gifted with some white mice.

617
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: There there we meet Bruno, a very hungry, rich boy

618
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: that loves to sneak some of the lovely teacakes before

619
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: everyone else. His character reminded me he was one of

620
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: the things where I's like, this feels very British. Yeah,

621
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: I don't know why. Just the way he speaks feels

622
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: very British. It's not necessarily even his accident, just something

623
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: about it. I've never read the book. Uh do love

624
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: a lot of the children's book raal dal did, but

625
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: this is very similar to that character in Matilda the

626
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: boy who So I wonder if he has this as

627
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: a theme for hem Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh So

628
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: it's at this point we learned that the hotel is

629
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: also hosting convention for which is of course masquating as

630
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children. Uh.

631
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: Here we meet the Grand High Witch, played by none

632
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: other than the wonderful Angelica Houston and her assistant, Miss Irving. Yeah,

633
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: this is when it gets a good luke while exploring

634
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 1: the grounds and running away from the hotel manager played

635
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: by Mr Bean if you all know who I'm talking about,

636
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: the famous English actor with his pet mice. We see

637
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: that they've come together to devise a plan to rid

638
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: the world of children by turning them into mice with

639
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: a potion that would be shared all over the world.

640
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: And can we talk about the revel for Angelica Houston

641
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: and her face as the actual witch, masterfully done by

642
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: Jim Henson's crew. Of course, her high, shrill voice and

643
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: disdain like it gave me nightmares, like even when she's

644
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: like talking and heaving almost like she's gonna vomit. Yeah,

645
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: giving nightmares. I'm not gonna lie. And it's at this

646
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: point they bring in their demonstration. Poor Bruno, Poor poor Bruno,

647
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: he's turned into a mouse. Um and we see him

648
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: scurry away. That whole thing was nightmarish, like his little

649
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: seizure and the green power what does that green fog everywhere?

650
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: But of course Luke has seen all of this and

651
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: has discovered them. And after he has discovered to have

652
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: been spying, Luke escapes to his room only to find

653
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: his grandmother unconscious in their room. And by the way,

654
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: there's some kind of relationship between the Grand High Witch

655
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: and the grandmother that they had met before, and I

656
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: think yes, and the grandmother lost her tips of her

657
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: fingers or no, the grandmother lost one of our fingers

658
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: to the Grand High Witch just put that in there.

659
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: Luke is then caught and turned into a mouse. Mhmm,

660
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: But no fear because Luke, using his mass abilities like

661
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: crawling and his tail. Of course, thinking this with the tail,

662
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: he sneaks the potion into the soup served to the witches,

663
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: turning them into mice, all but one, miss Irving, who

664
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: was banned from celebrating the rest of the witches. So

665
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: both Bruno and Luke are reunited with their families and

666
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: all they all return home. But unlike the book endings,

667
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: Irving has become a good which and not only turns

668
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: back into a boy, but goes on to set Bruno

669
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: back as well. And yes, Doll hated this ending, as

670
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: he argued, which is we're unredeemable and cruel. So Rogue

671
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,959
Speaker 1: actually did do two endings, one to satisfy a Doll

672
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 1: and to go more with a book, and the original

673
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: happy or one that we see. And when they did

674
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: the test screen test, yeah, everyone hated. This is like

675
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: the reverse shining. The shining is the opposite in a

676
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: weird way. So it was like, okay, interesting, So they

677
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: kept the happier ending, which I'm not gonna lie. If

678
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: it was a bad ending, there may have been a

679
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: chance that I couldn't have watched it. I mean that

680
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: would have been a very tough thing as a kid. Um,

681
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: I was upset, like when we were watching and I

682
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, he's gonna be a mouse forever,

683
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: like he's the resolved for it. But I'm like white.

684
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: So there are some themes in controversy with than this movie,

685
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: of course. Um, there's quite a bit of conversation about

686
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: the whole women hating children thing. Women who can only

687
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: be either haggard or cruel, or mothers and caregivers and

688
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: actually played a lot on the stranger danger fearmongering from

689
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: this film, so we wanted to talk a little about it.

690
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: As I told you, there were several articles about pretty

691
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: much about why this is one of the most scary

692
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: movies ever for children. Um. The continued conversation, though, had

693
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: come up on the Hagen Spencer versus the mother Protector,

694
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: which is an obvious then to this movie. You have

695
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: one or the other, whether it's turning the idea that

696
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: women are all maternal and caring versus women who ripped

697
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: children away from their families and are evil and thrive

698
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: on the demise of children they never wanted. It's very divisive,

699
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: and it gets pretty. It gets dark pretty quickly, as

700
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: we mentioned in the tail of the Disappearing Young Girl,

701
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: seriously eerie to me. Um, and then well we to

702
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: look at feminism in this movie. Uh So, the point

703
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: that the film was used to tell tell the tale

704
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: of the unhappy, motherless hag who murders are sometimes steels

705
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: children has made many people feel that this is a

706
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,959
Speaker 1: stereotypically misogynistic cautionary tales. Some have recently say they felt

707
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: it was more forth thinking. According to an article, UM,

708
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: they say author Caroline Kitneys have used it as quote

709
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 1: a hilarious feminist commentary on women, work and family, where

710
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 1: men are ineffective and women possess more power, something they

711
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: might prove horrifying to those frantically upholding the patriarchy. Right,

712
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 1: so it's goan to have been a back and forth

713
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: with them about is this feminist or is this anti feminist?

714
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: Should we be upset or should we laugh? I I

715
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: interpreted it as almost satirical, as almost like you're so

716
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: afraid of women with power and this is what scares you.

717
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, like that there was some element of

718
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: it that was almost giving a knowing wink of like, yes,

719
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: there is the stereotype of ugly hag women who want

720
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: to kill children, But what does that say about the

721
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: fact that varies that stereotype? Right? So it does go

722
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: back and forth. Yeah, so, but back then it was

723
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: just so upfront and it was that point of third

724
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: wave feminism. So, so who is the villain here? You know?

725
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: Is it women in general who don't want children? Or

726
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: is it that the pagriarchy have to pen and only

727
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: can categorize these two very deep for children's movie. So

728
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,959
Speaker 1: also and One of the big things that I saw

729
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: was the stranger danger concept um and as many have stated,

730
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: this brought fear for children with a new concept of

731
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: stranger danger which came around in the eighties. Not only

732
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 1: does this movie immediately place that fear within a child's mind,

733
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: but the movie and the book flips it with women

734
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: instead of men. Um, here is the hatred of children

735
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: that drives them, and as a child of the eighties nineties,

736
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: that's something children were taught to fear the whole Strangers

737
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: offering candy is a perfect setup that's gonna get you,

738
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: so you must be aware and be cautious. Yeah. Actually,

739
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: ever on Savor were just an episode on the ice

740
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 1: cream Truck, and it was so interesting to me because

741
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: they read all of these like beautiful nostalgic love memories

742
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: people had with ice cream truck, and I was like,

743
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: when I grew up, even at four years old, I

744
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: was like, no way in hell, right am I going

745
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: to follow music to kick? I meaning, you buy it.

746
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: It's not different than the store, but it just felt

747
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: so creepy, like here's this song, go outside and just

748
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: hope that nothing's gonna happen to me. Right, Definitely, there

749
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: were some cases in the eighties where children were abducted

750
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: in unmarked vans, and that's kind of that play that

751
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: came in. So you have this. Whole time when we

752
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: talked about good touch bad touch, it was always that

753
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: stranger danger level of conversation. Yeah, and this movie and

754
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: possibly the book brought that into context. This here's and

755
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: not only that, but trying to make you feel comfortable

756
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 1: with women, saying that women cannot be the predators here,

757
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 1: but they are so yeah. They That definitely gets into

758
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: the mind very quickly, and for children who was to

759
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: kid dapt right, So to say that this movie leaves

760
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: a lasting impression or an impact is an understatement, and

761
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: many still agree again that the overall horror of this

762
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: film is one for the record books, and many people

763
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: still have is the number one movie of the scariest

764
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: childhood movies that exist? Yeah, and again these artists, because

765
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: these articles were written the last couple of months. Yeah,

766
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: I was surprised how many articles I found. It's like

767
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: pages of them were like the scariest children's movie all

768
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: the time. Right, Look, yes, I agree, yes, but I'm

769
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: interested to see the rebate because they did talk about

770
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: Robert Remica said that he was making it more a

771
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: social Yeah, it's it's like it's said in the nineteen sixties,

772
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: Jim Courier. Yeah, and it's a black child. Yes, So

773
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: Octavia Spencer will be playing the grandmother, which is kind

774
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: of funny because the other grandmother was about fifteen years

775
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: older than her. Yeah, well, we'll have to see, We'll

776
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,919
Speaker 1: have to see it certainly will be. We're getting two

777
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: remakes of these things. Well, Oergus focus is getting a

778
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: sequel that is getting remaca. UM. So we did want

779
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: to talk about some overall themes when it comes to

780
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: which is in children's movies, But first we're gonna pause

781
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: for one worker, break for a word, Timmer sponsor, and

782
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So originally we were gonna

783
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: get into we we both we thought of prominent examples.

784
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: But the more I thought about this, the more I

785
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: feel like we're both very influenced by the product the

786
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: movies that are coming out in our era, because like

787
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: Sabrina was one we thought about, which was an interesting,

788
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 1: um contrast, because we do have the Netflix remake which

789
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: is much not not I would call it a children

790
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: made for children, UM, but the one in the nineties

791
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: certainly was. I mean it was a t G I

792
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: Friday Moved show, right, Yeah, yeah, I actually never saw it,

793
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: but I mean even just the clips and the vibe,

794
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, you never watched that. No,

795
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: was that on cable? I didn't have a cable. It

796
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: wasn't on cable. It was on I believe it was

797
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 1: on ABC. Was on a Family Night show for a

798
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: long while. I know it was rebroadcast on what used

799
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: to be free Form whatever it was before then for

800
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: a little while. Yeah, so, but it was Clarissa explains

801
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: at all who was Nickelodeon jumped into that the show

802
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,439
Speaker 1: as a teenager with Harvey and all of them. But yeah,

803
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: the new ones are definitely completely different. Um. So yeah,

804
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: that's the whole thing that there wasn't prominent devil worshiping

805
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: in the nineties sitcom Oh surprise, surprise. But they have

806
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: thought D and D was some anti evens um, well, yeah,

807
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: so the groups of examples we thought of, it really

808
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: does split pretty down the middle of like you do

809
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 1: have this good witch who is almost over the top

810
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: good um, and then you have the villain. And particularly

811
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: when you think about Disney movies, which we'll get into

812
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 1: in a second. There was an era where the witch

813
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: was bad in Disney movies and that's it, and that

814
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: is changing. But the reasons that it's changing are fascinating. Um.

815
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: I thought of double double toil and trouble. You you

816
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:40,760
Speaker 1: often have that kind of dynamic cause they were twins

817
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 1: that it was Clara Stitchman who was originally going to

818
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: be I think in Hocus Polk. No, she's gonna be

819
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: in the Witches. Um. But anyway, so you've got the

820
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: good witch in the bad witch. Uh. It's a Wizard

821
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: of Oz kind of dichotomy of you can only be

822
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: one or the other, and that's it. You can only

823
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 1: be this sort of maternal thing or this evil children

824
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 1: hating one. Yeah, and certainly attitudes towards children and youth

825
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 1: in general. It's just one of the biggest recurring themes

826
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: I could think of, and depictions of witches and children's

827
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: movies and also love like when you think of that.

828
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: And I know this is not a children's movie, but

829
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: Practical Magic was geared as a teenage movie because it

830
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: was PG. Thirteen, but it kind of has that whole

831
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: effect as well. Of course, children are involved in that

832
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,959
Speaker 1: as well and love and all of that. So you wonder,

833
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: you're like, what what is your ideas here? Yeah? Um,

834
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: and if you think of like hocus focus in particular, uh,

835
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: sucking the youth to peer young and beautiful, and that

836
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: whole idea that women's value and currency in society is

837
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: their youth and their beauty. Um. And like one of

838
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: the reasons they choose to focus on Danny thora Birch's

839
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: character to sucur youth, she says, You'll always be ugly.

840
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: You're the ugliest thing that's ever lived. And Whinnie is

841
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: so wounded by this insult. She's like, I have all

842
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 1: of these children options that would be much easier to get,

843
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: but you are the one you have insulted me. Yeah.

844
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: And it kind of that choosing vengeance and and losing

845
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: everything being too power hungry. Uh, perhaps too emotional, I

846
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: guess you could read it that way, and losing everything.

847
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: And then if you go back to Snow White, which

848
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: is one of the very first I mean that was

849
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 1: Disney's first movie, you have the queen who asks asked

850
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: a mirror, like who's the fairest of them all? Yeah,

851
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: she can't stand to not be the fairest of them all.

852
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: She must get rid of any competition. Yes, yes, women

853
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: competing against women. I mean that's the interesting thing about

854
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: who was focused is there is this kind of like

855
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: sisterly bond. The women competing against women is sort of

856
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: removed on that level, but on a societal level it's

857
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: still kind of there. Um. So that's interesting. And then

858
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 1: I did read, Uh, there are so many essays. This

859
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: should not have surprised me at all, but so many

860
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: essays have been written about Elsa from Frozen. Oh my gosh,

861
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: yes is she Yeah, it's a good power. We don't

862
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 1: know that she's got one known power anyway. Um. Yeah,

863
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: So she is one of the first Disney which is

864
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 1: especially the first I think that was good, but also

865
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: embraced her powers. Um. She was also the first to

866
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: use camp and heightened style of femininity, not to to

867
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 1: know evil. So if you think of like Mobile Efficent

868
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: or Ursula or yes, the Queen from Snow White, they

869
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: all have this like over the top kind of like

870
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 1: high college almost theater theatrical style, and also doesn't have

871
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: that at first, but when she goes into her big

872
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: musical number and kind of sheds it all. She does,

873
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: but she's still good. Um. But if you look at

874
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: the history of yeah, which is in Disney films in particular,

875
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: there is this over the top monstrous female desire that

876
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: aligns it with queerness. But there's also this fear of

877
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,959
Speaker 1: middle aged sexual agency. And as as I was reading

878
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: these essays, there's just something you don't pick up on

879
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: as a kid, I didn't really get, like when Ursula

880
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: was giving aerial like here's how you get a man,

881
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: and she's like plumping her lips and doing this, So

882
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: I didn't pick up on that. But it's true. She's

883
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 1: like middle aged c which totally confident in her body.

884
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: She loves herself and I love her her loving herself, Yes,

885
00:50:50,680 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: but it's painted as a bad bit and quiet. Yeah. Yeah.

886
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: It quis power obviously, with family power and ambition, the

887
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,959
Speaker 1: whole Witchcraft idea and the punishment and evil that comes

888
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: with it. Uh. And apparently I didn't realize, but it

889
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: is changing with New Disney. I guess if Elsa continues

890
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: on a stretch, is there any more new which is

891
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: coming about? So the saying I'm thinking of in particular

892
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: um delved into Elsa, UM Maleficent, the new Uh Angelica

893
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: Jolie Ones and then um, Meredith, who wasn't a witch,

894
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: but they were saying like she immediately breaks gender norms

895
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: and is like, I don't want to get married, maybe

896
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: I never want to get married. Go ahead to Clare

897
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:46,879
Speaker 1: war Um. So kind of that female power and ambition thing.

898
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: And previously when there had been that sort of aberrant

899
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: which power, it was bad and you could see that

900
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: essaying when women have too much power ambition, it is bad.

901
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 1: But now that I mean people children love Elsa. I

902
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: don't know if you know this, but whoa, Um, I've

903
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 1: seen it. Yeah, they and in those movies too, they

904
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: paint the love is in between two women, whether that's

905
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: like two sisters or I haven't seen Maleficent so long,

906
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: but basically Aurora and lovicent Um and then Marida and

907
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: her mother. Instead of it being this like romantic rush

908
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,479
Speaker 1: to get married, first time you meet a guy, it's

909
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: love and that's what you need and then your life

910
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: it's done and happy ever after. Um. In that case,

911
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: your power is essentially just finding a man, right. Yes,

912
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: I was just kidding, I just completely kidding. I was like, oh, Samath,

913
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: it comes out with a very yeah. Um not at all.

914
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: And then I mean, I feel like we could just

915
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: talk about a lot of this stuff forever in a

916
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: in a more detailed episode, and perhaps will be, because

917
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: again it's my favorite season and my favorite holiday. But

918
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: we were also discussing how in Harry Potter and in

919
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: most things where you have witches and warlocks and and wizards,

920
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,760
Speaker 1: and it does feel that wizards are you know, there's

921
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: a wiseness attached to them and perhaps more of a

922
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,280
Speaker 1: maybe it's just like less complicated, but it does feel

923
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 1: like I don't have a natural inclination to think they're bad,

924
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: whereas which is like, even though I don't think that anymore,

925
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: there is that in the back of my head kind

926
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: of Oh wait, I've seen so many bad witches? Is

927
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: that what you mean? Um? And we, I mean, we

928
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: use it as an insult or we have for in

929
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 1: our society forever. So I just watched a movie where

930
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: a woman just randomly shouted witch at a bar and

931
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: they tried to kill her. She just said it. Um,

932
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of bad horror reason, but what

933
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: would be a movie that did that? How is it

934
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: called They're watching? It was about a home improvement show

935
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: that went really wrong. Oh yeah, you're digging in something

936
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: real dud, you know, Okay, you're going down the well

937
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: on this one. Um. But yeah, I would love to

938
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: return to this and have a more in depth conversation

939
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 1: about some of these ideas. But but in the meantime,

940
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a pretty good overview of the themes.

941
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 1: You see a lot with women and which is in

942
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: these children's movies, right, which I find fascinating. Uh. I

943
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 1: do want to see more of the ideas that we

944
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: see in adult films to translate into children's films. And

945
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: I guess technically Harry Potter did that mm hmm, which bad.

946
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: But you know whatever, newer ones are certainly laying with

947
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: a lot of this. Right again, I found I wish

948
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: I had way more time to prepare because I found

949
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 1: so manny. Oh so, I don't know why I just

950
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: popped in my head the teen which movie from eight

951
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 1: nine and the worst I think that was the worst

952
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: musical number in the Oh you've got my attention now.

953
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: But essentially it is eighteen rom calm that involves a

954
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: redheaded which and I can't remember much about it. I

955
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: remember loving it. Um, yeah, damn, I forgot about that

956
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 1: one too, Alright, like that might be another movie that

957
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,879
Speaker 1: I have to make you watch, but I'm not gonna lie.

958
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 1: I can't attest to worth watching. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. Okay,

959
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: Well we'll add it to the list and in the meantime, listeners.

960
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,439
Speaker 1: If you have any movie you want us to add

961
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: to the list, police send them our way. Our email

962
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 1: is Tough Media momp Up at iHeart media dot com.

963
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram at Stuff I've

964
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: Never Told You, are on Twitter at mon Stuff Podcast. Thanks.

965
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 1: It's always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks guys,

966
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 1: Oh no, that was just one. Thank you, and thanks

967
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You. The

968
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio for more podcasts, or my

969
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 1: Heart Radio is heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

970
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.