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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the podcast, New listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in

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Speaker 1: the world, it is so great to have you here.

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Speaker 1: Back for another episode, as we, of course break down

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Speaker 1: the very important psychology of our twenties. I've got a question.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever had that feeling of meeting someone amazing,

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Speaker 1: feeling like this relationship you know it could really go somewhere,

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Speaker 1: or it's already going somewhere. You're happy, you're fulfilled, your

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Speaker 1: friends and your family they love this person, and then

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Speaker 1: out of nowhere, this kind of small feeling starts to

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Speaker 1: creep in. It's this feeling of is this person really

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Speaker 1: the one? Is this part of our relationship normal? Should

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Speaker 1: I be having these doubts? Is this a sign we

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be together? It can definitely send you spiraling in

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Speaker 1: confusion and facing all of these annoying questions leaves you

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Speaker 1: doubting whether it is your anxiety or you're into about

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Speaker 1: this relationship. And this, my lovely listeners, is something that

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Speaker 1: we call relationship anxiety or relationship OCD. And for those

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Speaker 1: of us in our twenties, when you know we're kind

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Speaker 1: of experiencing our first really long term important relationships. It

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Speaker 1: can be a real pain, and it can really ruin

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Speaker 1: otherwise perfect and magical situations and magical experiences, and it

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Speaker 1: can also leave us in a real negative thought spiral.

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Speaker 1: So today we are going to break down exactly why

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Speaker 1: this occurs, why we have been taught all these false

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Speaker 1: notions of what a perfect relationship should look like, and

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Speaker 1: when you should be doubting your doubts rather than accepting

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Speaker 1: them at face value. We also have the privilege to

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Speaker 1: be joined by an incredible relationship coach, Rebecca Or, who

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Speaker 1: specializes in helping people find relationships that feel confident and secure.

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Speaker 1: She is perfect for this episode. Welcome Rebecca, Ah, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for having me. I'm so excited. I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited, and you are hearing a little UK accent.

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Speaker 2: Everyone.

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Speaker 1: We had to we had to arrange this from across

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Speaker 1: the oceans and oh my gosh, the UK to Australian

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Speaker 1: time zone is a violent change, like there is no time.

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Speaker 2: It works. I have some Australian clients and it is.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy.

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Speaker 1: She's used to it then, but I'm honestly I'm used

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Speaker 1: to it, used to it. When I heard what you

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Speaker 1: have to say about relationship OCD. I was like, everyone

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Speaker 1: in their twenties needs to hear this advice. So before

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Speaker 1: we get into that advice, can you quickly introduce yourself

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Speaker 1: to the listeners of the psychology of your twenties?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, So, as said, I am Rebecca, and

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Speaker 2: I'm a relationship coach that specializes in helping people with

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Speaker 2: anxieties and insecurities in that relationship. So what I do

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Speaker 2: is help people kind of take back control of their

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Speaker 2: brains create relationships that feel secure and confident. And really

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Speaker 2: it's a lot about their relationship with themselves, being able

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Speaker 2: to trust themselves, being able to manage their own minds,

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Speaker 2: kind of challenge those fearful thoughts that their brain is

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Speaker 2: constantly offering to them, and yeah, and really just feel

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Speaker 2: back in control. And the reason I got into doing

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Speaker 2: this was because I spent the majority of my teenagers

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Speaker 2: and my twenties just feeling absolutely terrified in relationships, just

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Speaker 2: so scared all of the time. And this is why

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Speaker 2: the work I do is so so important to me,

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Speaker 2: because basically I went through my own kind of journey

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Speaker 2: with this work, with seeking out, you know, expert help

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Speaker 2: and listening to podcasts and going to therapy and reading

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Speaker 2: all the books and all these things, and yeah, I

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Speaker 2: finally found kind of a set of tools, a set

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Speaker 2: of concepts, a structure that really helped me to go

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Speaker 2: out of this kind of spiral. And yeah, that made

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Speaker 2: me realize that I need to help other people do this.

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Speaker 2: So it's worked that I'm really really passionate about. And

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Speaker 2: when I say I can relate to everyone I coach,

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Speaker 2: it's literally like coaching a past version of me in

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Speaker 2: every session.

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Speaker 1: You know, you are the kind of like the kind

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Speaker 1: of guests that I love having on the show when

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Speaker 1: it's someone who is not only an expert, but has

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Speaker 1: a lived experience with the things we're talking about. Not

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Speaker 1: to like hate on anyone who's trying to help people,

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Speaker 1: but I just find that you can only get so

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Speaker 1: deep if you haven't been through it yourself. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can only really understand the extreme anxiety that comes with

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Speaker 1: relationship OCD if you've experienced it yourself. We have to

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Speaker 1: talk about this topic though, because some people may not

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Speaker 1: be familiar with relationship OCD. Can you give me a

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Speaker 1: brief description of what it is and maybe what it

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Speaker 1: feels like? Also, something I need to bring up. It

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Speaker 1: has OCD in the name, of course, but I think people,

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Speaker 1: if you're thinking about the typical kind of OCD that

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Speaker 1: we might talk about, it is quite different to what

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming most people are imagining. So I'm sure you

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Speaker 1: will confirm, deny all of those thoughts, or explain them further.

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Speaker 1: But yes, give us the basics of relationship r OCD.

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Speaker 2: Relationship OSOD is where people have obsessive compulsive thinking in

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Speaker 2: their intimate relationships. So it's going to feel like intrusive

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Speaker 2: thoughts of doubt and anxiety surrounding relationships. And of course

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Speaker 2: doubt in any relationship is normal, of course it is.

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Speaker 2: But people with ROCD find that the level of doubt,

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Speaker 2: that the level of doubt and anxiety is uncontrollable, and

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Speaker 2: it feels really intrusive, and it feels really distressing. And

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Speaker 2: what that can look like is constantly debating if the

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Speaker 2: relationship is right. It looks like a lot of ruminating.

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Speaker 2: It looks like a lot of monitoring and checking how

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Speaker 2: they feel. So do I feel in love now?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I just felt bored? What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Am I? Am I attracted to them enough? It's a

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Speaker 2: lot of kind of monitoring how they feel. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot of comparing, so comparing your relationship to other people's relationships,

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Speaker 2: what you see on TV or on films, social media.

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Speaker 2: There can be a lot of kind of trying to

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Speaker 2: control your partner, trying to kind of nitpick, you know,

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Speaker 2: if we don't want them to be imperfect, We want

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Speaker 2: them to do but do everything just right so that

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Speaker 2: we don't have to feel any negative emotion or doubt.

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Speaker 2: If we can make them do it just right, then

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Speaker 2: we don't have to feel negative emotion, which we will

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Speaker 2: end up spiraling on and thinking that means something terrible.

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Speaker 2: So it can mean that people can be a little

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Speaker 2: bit not in a malicious way, but that they kind

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Speaker 2: of want to try and control and micromanage their partner

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Speaker 2: a little bit. There can be a lot of ruminating

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Speaker 2: about missing out, you know, am I missing out on

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Speaker 2: someone better? Being afraid to commit to someone just in

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Speaker 2: case it doesn't work out, and even to go as

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Speaker 2: far as people might avoid committing to relationships at all

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Speaker 2: because they're so afraid to experience this doubt and anxiety.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it can be a really hard thing to

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Speaker 2: experience for me. Although I coach a lot of people

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Speaker 2: with ROCD. What I really experienced myself is more kind

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Speaker 2: of kind of I feel like there's two kinds of fears.

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Speaker 2: There's like the fear of being left, and then there's

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Speaker 2: the fear of like, I'm not in the right relationship

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Speaker 2: and you know this relationship is going to end, I

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Speaker 2: might leave them. For me, I was much more afraid

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Speaker 2: people were going to leave me. But I think the

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Speaker 2: phars are so closely linked, and I coach so many

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Speaker 2: people with these intrusive doubts in their relationship, And yeah,

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Speaker 2: those were kind of the most common things that we

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Speaker 2: see time and time again. So I'm sure some of

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Speaker 2: your listeners can totally relate to at least one or

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Speaker 2: two of those things.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And you know what, especially in our twenties,

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Speaker 1: when we're like I just want to have this great,

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Speaker 1: big love and I'm so young, and this is the

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Speaker 1: time when I meant to be meeting people and dating

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Speaker 1: and exploring. If I'm going to sink my time into

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Speaker 1: this relationship, it better be the right person, and I

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Speaker 1: better be one hundred percent short. And I'm going to

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Speaker 1: say this, like, I'm in such an amazing relationship, I'm

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Speaker 1: not one hundred percent. Sure, I'm like think I'm ninety

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Speaker 1: nine point nine percent there, But you are always going

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Speaker 1: to have doubts, And I actually think that's important because

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Speaker 1: it causes you to continue to examine your relationship and

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Speaker 1: to continue to consciously say I do want to be here,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think if you never

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Speaker 1: thought about your relationship at all, it becomes this passive thing.

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Speaker 1: But we want to find the balance, right. I'm also

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Speaker 1: assuming from what you've described that a lot of people

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Speaker 1: do find that they end up self sabotaging relationships, that

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Speaker 1: a relation like their relationship patterns may be quite self destructive,

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Speaker 1: that they have a lot of regret around leaving past relationships,

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Speaker 1: missing that person, being unable to move on. Do you

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Speaker 1: find that some of your clients will come to you

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Speaker 1: and say, there was a relationship I had and in

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Speaker 1: hindsight it was perfect and I can't get them back.

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Speaker 2: What am I going to do now?

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Speaker 1: Like, is that something that happens?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I have coached people that have been in that

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Speaker 2: situation where as we start to unpack their patterns, they realize, oh, wait,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't them, that it wasn't the relationship that was

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Speaker 2: the problem. It was my brain, and that can be

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Speaker 2: a moment where people start to feel loads of regret

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Speaker 2: and kind of almost shame around that. But I think

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Speaker 2: it kind of plays into a little bit of what

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Speaker 2: the kind of underlying thinking error is, which there can

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Speaker 2: almost be this scarcity around it, like there's this one

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Speaker 2: right person for me. And I know we're going to

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Speaker 2: come on to talking about the one the idea of

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Speaker 2: the one as well, but we almost have this idea

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Speaker 2: that there's this one person for me, and they're predetermined.

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Speaker 2: They're like a needle in the haystack that I need

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Speaker 2: to go find, and therefore, if I've missed them, then

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Speaker 2: I've missed them, but they've gone. And I think a

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Speaker 2: big part of snapping out of this ROCD kind of

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Speaker 2: mentality is there isn't one right person. There are just

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Speaker 2: billions of imperfect humans on the planet that you could

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Speaker 2: create an amazing relationsis with if it didn't happen with that

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Speaker 2: person in the past because your brain wasn't ready for it,

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Speaker 2: you weren't in the place to have that, or they weren't,

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Speaker 2: or maybe now you are, but they aren't, maybe they're

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Speaker 2: now dating someone else. That doesn't mean you've missed but

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Speaker 2: you're one great chance for love. It means that, Okay,

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Speaker 2: that person, it wasn't the right time with that person,

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Speaker 2: and there are other amazing people that you can create

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Speaker 2: a great relationship with. So I think for me, it's

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Speaker 2: always coaching them through that scarcity mindset of like that

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Speaker 2: it's like that kind of there's one slice of pizza

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Speaker 2: left in the box, or like there's one partner left

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Speaker 2: on the shelf, like and I've missed out. No, there

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Speaker 2: are always more amazing partners that we can connect with.

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Speaker 2: The world is the world is not short of people,

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Speaker 2: and there are billions of amazing, imperfect, flawed humans that

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Speaker 2: we get to love. So yeah, I think that's the

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Speaker 2: way I would coach them around. That is really looking

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Speaker 2: that scarcity mentality.

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Speaker 1: The scarcity mentality in dating right now, as I'm sure

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Speaker 1: many of my twenty something single people can attest, is wild.

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Speaker 1: Like it's absolutely wild. It just I saw this like

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Speaker 1: TikTok the other day, and it's like, if you met

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Speaker 1: your partner on Hinge, you got like the last chopper

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Speaker 1: out of Nam, like out of Vietnam, like you got

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Speaker 1: the last lifeboat off the Titanic. Like it's terrible.

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Speaker 2: That's hilarious, I know, and I.

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Speaker 1: Was like, gosh, no, wonder people feel like they need

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Speaker 1: to like now, wonder people feel like they can't leave

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Speaker 1: bad relationships. But also this sense of doubt around choosing

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Speaker 1: the wrong person because if you've chosen the wrong person,

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Speaker 1: eventually you'll be single again. And it just seems all

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Speaker 1: so terrible and bleak, which it isn't. But I'm jumping

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Speaker 1: the gun because I want to ask you this one question.

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Speaker 1: I so want to get some of our basics down, pat.

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Speaker 1: Are there certain people who are more prone to ROCD

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Speaker 1: relationship OCD than others?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So, I think there's so many things that can

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Speaker 2: impact these kinds of thought patterns, and one is childhood experiences.

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Speaker 2: You know it you grew up in a family where

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Speaker 2: maybe you saw a lot of kind of problematic behavior

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Speaker 2: in a romantic relationship, you know, your mum and dad maybe,

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Speaker 2: or maybe they went for a really painful divorce and

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Speaker 2: that was really hard to witness. You know, our brains

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Speaker 2: are always absorbing beliefs, and we can absorb these beliefs

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Speaker 2: from childhood that relationships are scary and dangerous, or relationships

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Speaker 2: aren't safe, relationships will end, relationships are scary, and so

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Speaker 2: childhood experiences is a huge one. Social conditioning, which I

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Speaker 2: know we've said as well, like all these messages we

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Speaker 2: receive about, you know, how relationships should look, the Disney

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Speaker 2: movies we watched, you know, the rom coms we've seen,

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Speaker 2: all this kind of social conditioning can really impact the

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Speaker 2: way we think about it. But I think some people

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Speaker 2: do just have more anxious tendencies than others due to

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Speaker 2: their genes, their DNA, and it can be hard to pinpoint.

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Speaker 2: And I think my advice for clients is to worry

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Speaker 2: less about why is my brain like this and focus

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Speaker 2: more on how can I show up with compassion and

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Speaker 2: care to work with what I've got. You know, if

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Speaker 2: my brain is absorbed this from somewhere, who knows where

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Speaker 2: I could have been? Childhood could have been a Disney

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Speaker 2: movie I watched now I was five, and my prains

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Speaker 2: really latched onto it, like who knows, Let's just meet

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Speaker 2: you where you are and learn to guide ourselves through it.

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Speaker 1: Oh, do you know how refreshing that take is. I

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Speaker 1: love to examine the why, but I think that it's

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Speaker 1: like it's the why and the now, and you need

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Speaker 1: to be able to distinguish them because the past, your genetics,

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Speaker 1: your personality, none of it is like none of it

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Speaker 1: is I don't want to say incorrectible, none of it

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Speaker 1: is everything Stone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we can end up trapped in this story where

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Speaker 2: we're like, well, because my dad cheated on my mom

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Speaker 2: five times, like now I'm really bad at relationships. And

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Speaker 2: that's not me mocking anyone that says those kinds of

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Speaker 2: things that I totally understand it. I've been there myself.

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Speaker 2: But we can end up its trapped in that story

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Speaker 2: where we identify as I'm a person that's bad at relationships.

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Speaker 2: I'm a person that can't commit because of this thing.

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Speaker 2: And when we tell our brains that, our ban's just

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Speaker 2: like okay, we don't commit. That's who we are. I

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Speaker 2: know there's no way out of that. So yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think just being able to recognize what might have contributed

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Speaker 2: with compassion and then okay, now what we're doing from here?

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Speaker 1: This is something I talk about a lot also just

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Speaker 1: in my personal life with my friends. What is the

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Speaker 1: story that you're telling yourself that is making your life

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Speaker 1: less amazing than it could be Because each of us

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Speaker 1: is telling ourselves a story, maybe it's not about relationship ProCD.

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Speaker 1: Just think about it in general, that we're telling ourselves

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Speaker 1: a story around how we're incapable. We're telling ourselves a

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Speaker 1: story around how we don't deserve certain things, about what

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Speaker 1: people think about us, about the fact that our relationships

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Speaker 1: are always going to fail. I again, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: bring in a pop culture reference here, which I don't

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Speaker 1: do that often, but there is much pop culture references

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Speaker 1: to relationship O City. When you look for them. It's

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Speaker 1: the song The Prophecy by Taylor Swift. Have you heard

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Speaker 1: this song?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: I was like, and it's the sense of like. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you've listened to the song If you haven't,

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Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful song, and it's basically like her

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Speaker 1: talking about how she's deemed to always have her relationships fail.

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Speaker 1: And anyone who was anxiously attached to, anyone who struggles

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Speaker 1: with relationship anxiety, anyone who has just been you know,

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Speaker 1: unfortunate enough to have had too many relationships end and

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Speaker 1: end up being lessons, will relate to that song of

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Speaker 1: feeling like it's a prophecy. This is set and stone,

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Speaker 1: and it most certainly is not. And we've talked about

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Speaker 1: the story that we might tell ourselves. What about the

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Speaker 1: story that society tells us? What what are we told

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Speaker 1: relationships should look like? And why do you find that

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Speaker 1: sometimes unhealthy?

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Speaker 2: Wow? I could talk for but I'll try and streamline

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Speaker 2: it a little bit for the sake of not sending

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Speaker 2: everyone to sleep. But yeah, we have absorbed so many

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Speaker 2: messages from society, from you know, even you know, the

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Speaker 2: the parents, the caregivers, teachers, that everyone that we've come

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Speaker 2: into contact with. Our brains are always listening, especially as children,

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Speaker 2: were always absorbing messages. And you know, we kind of

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Speaker 2: sold the idea of romantic relationships saving us, you know,

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Speaker 2: especially as women. And then this is one thing I

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Speaker 2: want to say as well, is that I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of women in particular suffer with ro OCD because

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Speaker 2: they've kind of been taught that their romantic relationship is

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Speaker 2: a reflection of their worth and value. I mean, and

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Speaker 2: if we think about historically, you know, at one point

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Speaker 2: a woman's romantic relationship was literally her lifeline. She didn't

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Speaker 2: have a bank account, she didn't have a job, she

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Speaker 2: didn't have a place to live on her own, she

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Speaker 2: couldn't buy property. A romantic partner was her lifeline. So

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Speaker 2: although we're not living in that thankfully anymore, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's still trickled down where women really believe that their

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Speaker 2: romantic partner is a reflection of their worth in value.

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Speaker 2: If they don't have a romantic partner, it's because they

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Speaker 2: aren't worthy invaluable in some way, and if they do,

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Speaker 2: that person is like this mirror of whether they are

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Speaker 2: worthy invaluable. And so, yeah, we put a lot of

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Speaker 2: pressure on our romantic relationships and we often kind of

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Speaker 2: think of them as coming along to save us. You know,

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Speaker 2: for a single we think, oh, I'm going to get

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Speaker 2: this person come along, and they are going to be

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Speaker 2: this amazing person that's gonna come along and complete me.

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Speaker 2: They're going to be the other half of me. They're

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Speaker 2: going to be my soulmate, my one and only, and

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Speaker 2: then my life will be happily ever after. And if

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Speaker 2: we think of the Disney films that we've watched, think

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Speaker 2: of rom coms, you know, we always see them running

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Speaker 2: off into the sunset together. We don't see the after

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Speaker 2: part of the happily ever after, you know, we don't

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Speaker 2: see the part where Cinderella's sat around feeling a bit

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Speaker 2: bored and frustrated. Because the prince has been late home

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Speaker 2: every night that week, or you know, we don't see

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Speaker 2: them maybe start scrolling on their phones, not having much

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Speaker 2: to say to each other, or the fact that they've

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Speaker 2: maybe not had sex for a few weeks because you know,

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Speaker 2: they've been really tired. We don't see the realities of

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Speaker 2: relationships really played out to us, even on social media,

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Speaker 2: you know. And this is just, you know, it's kind

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Speaker 2: of social media's fault. It's just the way that it is.

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Speaker 2: But we don't post our loads. We only post the highs.

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Speaker 2: We post the engagement photos, We post those gushy Valentine's

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Speaker 2: posts when we're all dressed up. Of course, we're not

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Speaker 2: going to post the mundane moments where we're just sat like,

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Speaker 2: oh look at me, like sat with my partner, having

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Speaker 2: nothing to say. We're not going to post that. And

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Speaker 2: the brain then subconsciously believes that those things don't exist.

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Speaker 2: The boring, the mundane, the negative just doesn't exist. So

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Speaker 2: then when we experience it, we think, what has gone wrong?

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Speaker 2: There must be something wrong If I, yeah, I must

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Speaker 2: not be normal, if I feel like, look at everyone

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Speaker 2: else is so happy, so connected, out doing cute things,

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Speaker 2: having a great time, all the time, and I'm sat

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Speaker 2: here feeling bored and you know, maybe we're not doing

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Speaker 2: anything this weekend. Something must be wrong. And so yeah,

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Speaker 2: one of the expectations we have is for our relationships

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Speaker 2: to be happy and blissful all of the time, and

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Speaker 2: we think our partners are supposed to fulfill every single

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Speaker 2: need that we have. And this is one of the

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Speaker 2: things that I was saying about kind of people monitoring

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Speaker 2: their emotions because they've kind of believed that relationships. And

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Speaker 2: I was actually coaching someone last night who said the

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Speaker 2: same thing, that, well, relationships are supposed to be happy, right,

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Speaker 2: And we were like, I said, well, yeah, you're you know,

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Speaker 2: happiness is one emotion you're feeling your relationship, But what

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Speaker 2: if you're supposed to also feel other emotions? And it

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Speaker 2: was like a it was kind of like a light

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Speaker 2: bulb moment for where she's like, oh, she thought that

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Speaker 2: happy was the one emotion she was supposed to feel.

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Speaker 2: So I realized, I'm talking a lot now, I get

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Speaker 2: but yeah, so we end up if we do feel

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Speaker 2: a negative emotion like annoyed, irritated, frustrated with our partners,

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Speaker 2: we start to panic and think I shouldn't be feeling that,

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Speaker 2: you know, why am I feeling this way? This isn't normal.

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Speaker 2: I think we're just so scared of doing it wrong

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Speaker 2: that we become hyper vigilant. You know. We start comparing

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Speaker 2: are we having sex enough compared to other couples? Are

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Speaker 2: we going on enough date nights compared to other couples,

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Speaker 2: as if there is just this one set normal, and

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Speaker 2: we just want to know that that exists so that

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Speaker 2: we can then rest assured that we are doing it right. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a whole lot of expectations to challenge, and I

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Speaker 2: think that is one of the biggest things that we

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Speaker 2: have to do with r OCD is really looking at

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Speaker 2: what is my unchecked story of how relationships should be?

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Speaker 2: What is the reality? And you know, and a question

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Speaker 2: I like to ask people is if you knew that

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Speaker 2: that was just totally normal, would it be a problem,

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Speaker 2: And for most of them are like, oh no, if

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Speaker 2: I knew that it was normal to sometimes go a

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Speaker 2: few weeks without having sex, Like I don't know, it

397
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Speaker 2: wouldn't be a big deal to me at all. Like

398
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Speaker 2: people almost need permission for it to be normal, Like

399
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Speaker 2: it's okay.

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Speaker 1: I think it's because relationships are so nuanced and complex

401
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Speaker 1: and complicated and something they're scary, like being in love

402
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Speaker 1: is scary. We look to be validated by what other

403
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Speaker 1: people are doing because that provides us with some sense

404
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: of confidence that we're doing it right. It's like cheating

405
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Speaker 1: off the test of someone next to you, thinking that

406
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Speaker 1: they know what they're doing and they don't. Actually, And

407
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Speaker 1: when you're talking about that client that you know, I

408
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Speaker 1: have to feel happy in a relationship, and you're saying, well,

409
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Speaker 1: what if your relationship is meant to teach you other things?

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Speaker 1: You know, as humans? There was a study I read

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Speaker 1: recently that we have access to thirty four thousand different

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Speaker 1: kinds of emotions, distinct different emotional states. How boring would

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Speaker 1: it be if your relationship only fulfilled one? That means

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Speaker 1: you would have thirty three thousand, nine hundred and ninety

415
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Speaker 1: nine other emotions, maybe nine hundred and ninety eight if

416
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Speaker 1: we also include love, that you would have to find elsewhere. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't sound particularly enjoyable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that you said that as well as

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Speaker 2: one of the concepts I teach is called the fifty

420
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Speaker 2: to fifty, and it's this idea that life is supposed

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Speaker 2: to be about the fifty to fifty, the fifty to

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Speaker 2: fifty of positive and negative emotion, and no matter where

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Speaker 2: you are, no matter where you live, no matter what

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Speaker 2: job you do, your brain is going to create the

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Speaker 2: fifty to fifty. I always think of like, you know,

426
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Speaker 2: when you think of people that are rich and famous

427
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: and have it all that, my brain goes to like

428
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 2: the Kardashians. You only have to watch an episode of

429
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Speaker 2: the Kardashians to see that they are living the fifty

430
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Speaker 2: to fifty. They have a lot of positive emotion, but

431
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Speaker 2: boy do they have negative emotion too. And they have money,

432
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Speaker 2: they have cars, they have you know, glamour, they have

433
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 2: the big house. Their brain is still creating the fifty

434
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 2: to fifty. They're going to feel bored, they're going to

435
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 2: feel frustrated, they're going to feel irritated, they're going to

436
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 2: feel disconnected sometimes, and it's really this reminder that it

437
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 2: doesn't matter where you are what you're doing. You know,

438
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 2: on my honeymoon in December, me and my wife were

439
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: sat on the beach one day and we were both

440
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 2: just in a terrible mood and we both looked each other.

441
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: We were like, this really proves the idea of the

442
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty because we're literally on our honeymoon on

443
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 2: a beach and we're both really irritated. Yeah, in love,

444
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 2: and we're both really irritated, and we were like waiting

445
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 2: for the boat to pick us up, and we were like,

446
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: we were just in like a bad mood. And it's

447
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: just this idea of no matter which partner you have,

448
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 2: no matter who you pick, your brain is going to

449
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: create the negative fifty, which includes boredom, frustration, anxiety, irritation,

450
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 2: all the things you said, like, it's going to give

451
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 2: you the whole spectrum. And when we can know that,

452
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: we can we can worry less about Okay, which right

453
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 2: partner is going to give me the exit ramp off

454
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 2: that human experience? Which right partner is going to come

455
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 2: along and save me from that negative fifty? And just

456
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 2: which human do I want to enjoy loving while knowing

457
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: my brain's going to create all of the emotions no

458
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 2: matter what.

459
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the way you put that, I absolutely

460
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 1: love it. We're going to take a short break here.

461
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: Let us have a little break for water, a little

462
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: tea break, a thinking break, but we will return very

463
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: very shortly Okay, we are back with the wonderful, brilliant

464
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:16,959
Speaker 1: Rebecca or to talk about relationship OCD. So something I

465
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: know people are thinking is if my brain is going

466
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: to create the fifty to fifty with anyone, when do

467
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: I know what doubts to listen to and which ones

468
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: to ignore? Because there are people who are just strictly

469
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: not right for us. So do you have any tricks

470
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: for telling the difference between an anxious thought and an

471
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: actual doubt.

472
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's a process that I would encourage people

473
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: to try, and it basically starts with self southing because

474
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 2: in the moment where you feel triggered as in anxious,

475
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: you feel that kind of urgency. What we've got to

476
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 2: remember is that your brain is seeing whatever the situation

477
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: is as dangerous. Your brain thinks that this relationship ending

478
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: is dangerous in some way, or you know, this partner

479
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: not being right for you is dangerous. It's going to

480
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 2: mean something bad. So it's sounding the alarm, and you

481
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: can think of it like maybe an overprotective guard dog

482
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: or a faulty smoke alarm. I sometimes use that analogy.

483
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 2: So your brain is sounding the alarm as if you

484
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: know there's a lion about to attack you when really, okay,

485
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: your partner just might not be a good match for you.

486
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 2: You're not going to die. So we've got to start

487
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 2: with just kind of grounding ourselves because when we're in

488
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 2: that place of heightened anxiety or fear, the rational part

489
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: of our brain is not online. The prefrontal cortex, the

490
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 2: part of our brain that is in charge of logical

491
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: rational thinking, completely off fine, and it's the primitive brain

492
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 2: doing all the talking. So in these moments you're feeling

493
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: really triggered, you know, you're having a lot of doubts.

494
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: Just start by first of all, observing the experience. So

495
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: I like to do this by just shifting to the

496
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: observer of my thoughts. So, Okay, my brain is telling

497
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: me this thought, but okay, I'm noticing my partner, you know,

498
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: said this, and my brain's making it mean this. Okay,

499
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 2: I'm just noticing my brain is telling me this, So

500
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of like you're shifting to observing

501
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 2: the story. Then we've got to sit and ground ourselves

502
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: back in our body. We got to calm the body

503
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: down again, and we're signaling to the primitive brain it's okay, brain,

504
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: we're safe. There's no lion, there's no tiger. We're actually safe.

505
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: So there's a whole process I teach on kind of

506
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 2: grounding in the body, but it really involves being willing

507
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 2: to sit and feel the emotions, feel the sensations of

508
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: that anxiety. Just notice where they are, take a breath

509
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: around them. Notice how you can just coexist with them.

510
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 2: They can't hurt you, And try and just be present

511
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 2: with that experience without trying to rush to escape it.

512
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 2: And the client I was coaching last night, we were talking

513
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 2: about this and she always feels like her like it's

514
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 2: an emergency, she has to solve it right away. So

515
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: if her brain offers her these doubts, she has to

516
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: solve it. She has to know whether it's like, you know,

517
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 2: right round or what she's going to do. So we've

518
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: been really working on can she just sit and observe, like, oh, okay,

519
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 2: Like I'm feeling this in my body and this is

520
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 2: the story my brain is telling me. Okay, this isn't

521
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: an emergency. It's just you know, a thought and feeling

522
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: I'm having. It's okay. When you do that, it's kind

523
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 2: of like you're turning the volume down So what felt

524
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 2: like a nine out of ten on the anxious doubt

525
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 2: scary spiral scale is going to come down to like

526
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 2: a four or a three or even lower. You can

527
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 2: just bring your kind of it's going to turn the

528
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: volume down. It's going to bring the sensations down a

529
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,719
Speaker 2: little bit. They might not go completely, but it's going

530
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 2: to just make them just kind of more like background noise. Yeah.

531
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 2: From there, that's when you can really check is there

532
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 2: an unchecked story here? Is there an expectation at play

533
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 2: that I need to look at? So I always like

534
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 2: to get my clients to separate out what are the

535
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 2: facts versus what is the story? Just so they can

536
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 2: check is this something I want to keep thinking? So

537
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: I had a client that would doubt whether her relationship

538
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: was right whenever her and a part sat in silence

539
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 2: on the sofa scrolling on their phone. And so the

540
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 2: fact was they were they were sat in silence, scrolling

541
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: on their phones. And I thought her story was, we

542
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: should be more connected, we shouldn't ever feel bored, we

543
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: should always have something to talk about. So we've got

544
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,239
Speaker 2: to challenge those expectations and stories. You know, is that

545
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 2: really true that you should never feel bored ever, just

546
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: because you're you have a romantic partner, Like, why, you know,

547
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 2: do you have to be in conversation all the time

548
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,239
Speaker 2: to love and care about someone? You know? Is that

549
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 2: really true? Is it possible you can have nothing particular

550
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: to say in that moment and still really get on

551
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: with that person and think they're great. So it's kind

552
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: of like really challenging those misconceptions, those expectations. Is there

553
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: a shot at play? And you know who said? Who

554
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: said that you should be doing this? Where did that

555
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: come from? With that? With that something from childhood? Was

556
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: that something from you know social media or the kind

557
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: of Disney films you watched, or you know rom coms.

558
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: So doing that first is important because you might discover

559
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: after going through that process that there's no issue. Actually

560
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: it was just your brain, your fearful brain, sound the

561
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: alarmed to try and protect you, and actually it's not

562
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: not a problem. Other times, you might discover that there

563
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: are things that are with deal breaker, that maybe although

564
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: you've challenged the story, you still don't really like this thing,

565
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: or that there's something that maybe that goes against a

566
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: value of yours, that that doesn't feel good in the

567
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: relationship and that's going to be so much easier to

568
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: say when you're coming from a calm, rational place and

569
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 2: you've challenged those stories first.

570
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: I love that where it's like, Okay, we need to

571
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: get back to that regulated, calm state before making any

572
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: rash decisions. I also think, in my experience, and I've

573
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: done a whole episode on this called anxiety versus Intuition,

574
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: your intuition about something is not going to demand an

575
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: answer from you right away. Your anxiety is urgent. Your

576
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: anxiety wants an accelerated solution so that it can return

577
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: to an internal state of emotional homeostate. Your intuition will

578
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: be like, you make this decision in your own.

579
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 2: Time, right then anxious? Yeah, totally exactly.

580
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: And it all comes back to this. I also think

581
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: there are some pretty obvious red flags, right And I

582
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: think that if you are continuously having this feeling of oh,

583
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: this just doesn't feel right and it's making you miserable

584
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: in other situations like where it just won't go away

585
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: and you are miserable because of it, and you've discussed

586
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: it with that person and they and it just isn't

587
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: being resolved, Like there is a genuine need that is

588
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: not being met for you, So sitting on your phone

589
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: with your partner, If you are sitting on the couch

590
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: and you're sitting in silence and you're kind of like,

591
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: I actually kind of enjoy this, but maybe we shouldn't

592
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: be doing this. That's probably an anxious thought. But if

593
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: you're sitting on the couch and you turn to your

594
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: partner and say, hey, I actually really would want us

595
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: to be I really want to connect right now, and

596
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: they're like, no, I don't want to leave me alone,

597
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: and they're not listening to you. Yeah, like that, I

598
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: think that is an actual doubt. It's something that you

599
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: can't collaborate through. It's something that like, if there's going

600
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: to be this fifty to fifty you want a team member.

601
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: You want someone who actually can collaborate with and compromise with.

602
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: If that's not them, I think it's not going to work.

603
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: What are something?

604
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, I'm sorry. I was just gonna say. One

605
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: of the things I teach as well is this idea

606
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: of the want match, And it's this idea that we

607
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 2: have different wants in a relationship and some people will

608
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: match those and some people won't. So you know, you

609
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: might have a one for a partner that's really physically affectionate,

610
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: and they might be someone that doesn't like physical affection.

611
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: Well that's not a one match then, And I think, yeah,

612
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: when we can really it's kind of like when we

613
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: can calm the the overprotective guard dog down, like it's okay, body,

614
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: it's okay, We're going to be all right. We can

615
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 2: then drop into that Well, what are the deal breakers

616
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: to me? What is the kind of partner I want?

617
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: You know, no partner is going to be perfect. This

618
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: person isn't going to do it perfectly all the time.

619
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: But are we aligned with our values and our want matches?

620
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: You know, do we want the same things out of

621
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: a relationship. If this person wants to, you know, never

622
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: really have sex, that's what they want, but you have

623
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: a you know, you have a really strong sex drive

624
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: and sex is really important to you. Okay, that might

625
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: not be a want match, and that's okay too. So yeah,

626
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: I love that you said that, and I think you're right.

627
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: When we can kind of drop into that calmness, it

628
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: becomes so much easier to decipher and.

629
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: If you have a respect for the other person, it's like, huh,

630
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: I just feel like that is also it's just such

631
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: a big thing and if there's no respect, that is

632
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: a deal breaker you should listen to. I also believe,

633
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: and you can correct me on this because you're the expert,

634
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: but this is my personal opinion. I also believe that

635
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: you don't have to address your doubts right now if

636
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: you feel comfortable and stable, you know what I mean.

637
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: Like the anxiety again, is this urgent thing. I find

638
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: that sometimes with my relationship at Procederer, I'm like, what

639
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: if I feel differently in five years and then I've

640
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: wasted all this time and there was something five years

641
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 1: ago that I didn't see and we're five years down

642
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: the line and I ignored it, and mom my god,

643
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: now my whole life is over.

644
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: I think that is the story. We've got a challenge

645
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: as well. I'm sorry to know that. That is why

646
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: I hear so much right when people say I'm so

647
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 2: worried that I'm going to regret this in five years time.

648
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 2: I think it's so It's so interesting because if we

649
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: think about your brain is constantly telling you stories, and

650
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: basically in those moments we're saying I'm afraid that in

651
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: five years time, my brain might tell me the story

652
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: that I've wasted time, and so I'm really afraid today

653
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: that my brain is going to say something to me

654
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: in five years time that I won't like. But we

655
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: forget that. In five years time, we get to decide

656
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: whether we believe that. And I think this is why

657
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: one of the things I was thinking of our CD

658
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: is we've got to really look at what our brain

659
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: is so afraid of underneath this all, Like, Okay, if

660
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: you are in this relationship and it ends in five years,

661
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: time is scary about that? And I think you know

662
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: that there's that thought you said, well, it means I've

663
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: wasted time. That's not actually a fact. That is totally

664
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: an optional way to think. And you know, I always

665
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 2: think I got married last year and I hope we're

666
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: going to stay together forever. But if in five years

667
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 2: time we don't, we break up for whatever reason, I'm

668
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 2: never gonna think, oh, I wasted time, that was the

669
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 2: wrong relationship, and now I need to beat myself up

670
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 2: for that. I'm going to think, no, that was the

671
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 2: total right decision for me in that moment, and that

672
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: was a beautiful relationship. And if it ends in five

673
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: years time, I get to go and create another great relationship,

674
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: And I think that is really what we need to

675
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: look at. You know, what is it that you're afraid of?

676
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: Is it that you're going to tell yourself you chose

677
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 2: wrong if this relationship ends. Is it that you don't

678
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: believe you could handle the breakup. Is it a fear

679
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 2: of getting divorced? Is it you know that you think

680
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 2: that you then won't be able to meet anyone else

681
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,479
Speaker 2: at a certain age. Because I think we almost need

682
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: to be willing for our relationships to end and know

683
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: that we can handle them. But for so many of us,

684
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 2: we see the idea of a relationship ending is failure.

685
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 2: So we think, Okay, in order for me to see

686
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 2: this is a success and believe I'm good at relationships

687
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: and I'm doing it right, this relationship has to last forever.

688
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: So we almost then start to work backwards and we're like, okay, well,

689
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: how do I know that this person's going to be

690
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,439
Speaker 2: my forever person? Well, then I need to make sure

691
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: that we never argued that we and then we start

692
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: to look for all these red flags and it just

693
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: it ruins our experience of it versus what if it

694
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 2: didn't need to last forever? Necessarily. And again, I'm married.

695
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: It's not me saying that I don't want my marries

696
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 2: to I love if it did, but I'm open to

697
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 2: the possibility that if it ended, I could be okay,

698
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't beat myself up. I wouldn't make it

699
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 2: mean I failed. It wudn't be a failed relationship. It would

700
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: be a relationship that lasted, however long it lasted. So

701
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: I don't know what you think of that and what

702
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 2: that brings up for you, but that, for me is

703
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: a really kind of important piece of this as well.

704
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: Wow, I'll tell you what I think about that. Absolutely

705
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: amazing advice. I mean, that's incredible advice, and I think

706
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: that that is going to change the brain chemistry of

707
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people saying because it is absolutely true.

708
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: It's like, just because a relationship doesn't last forever doesn't

709
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: mean it wasn't beautiful, doesn't mean it wasn't right then.

710
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: And I think it's so funny You've just unlocked this

711
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: in me, Like maybe I think that all that our

712
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: doubts are, all that our anxiety is, is our brain

713
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: trying to have some insurance against future suffering.

714
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 2: Yes, that's it.

715
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: It's just like, okay, Well, if I worry about this

716
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 1: is like my insurance, this is like gonna stop this.

717
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but your anxiety is going to do nothing

718
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: to stop you from suffering in the future. It's just

719
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: gonna make you suffer now. And again, there's this huge

720
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: study in psychology that basically says we tend to overdramaticize

721
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: or intensify how we think we'll feel in the future.

722
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: So you're sitting here right now and you're saying, well,

723
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: if I don't get the dream job now, in ten years,

724
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to feel so terrible. Actually, they've done studies

725
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 1: on this and they've found most of the time people

726
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: actually feel pretty neutral. We overexaggerate how we think will

727
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: feel in the future. And this is the same thing

728
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: with relationship. Both Today, your relationship doesn't work out, it

729
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: is going to be devastating, but it's your life isn't

730
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: going to be over. You will be fine. People, So

731
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: many people have made this pilgrimage, have had relationships that

732
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: have failed, and they have thought it was absolutely perfect.

733
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: So your anxiety doesn't mean one thing or the other.

734
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: It's just again, this insurance. But I want to ask

735
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: this this follow up question, which is, you're sitting here,

736
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: you're doubting your relationship, you're with this amazing person. How

737
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: do you deal with the guilt of that? Do you

738
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: the guilt of like, well, if I'm having doubts, maybe

739
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: they are better off without me.

740
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh that's so so common as well. And yeah,

741
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: there's so much shame and guilt around this, And yeah,

742
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 2: I think the most important thing to remember is that

743
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: you aren't your thoughts. So the thoughts you have of doubt,

744
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 2: of judgment towards your partner, of doubting if you love

745
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 2: them enough, of doubting whether they're right for you, you're not

746
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 2: those thoughts. You're just the observer of those thoughts. Those

747
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 2: thoughts are just random sentences that your brain offers you,

748
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: and your brain works through repetition, so the fact that

749
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: they come up so often is just because those are

750
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 2: the ones you've been practicing for so so long. But

751
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: like your brains, it's like a radio station that loves

752
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 2: to play the same three songs, Like your brain is

753
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 2: going to keep offering you the same thoughts that it

754
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: loves to play the most, And that's all these thoughts are.

755
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 2: They're just they've been programmed into your brain from so

756
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 2: many places, maybe past experiences, maybe messages from society, maybe

757
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 2: you know, early traumas that you had, or just these

758
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: fears and doubts about what it would mean if the

759
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 2: relationship ended. You know, that is what created these thoughts.

760
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: So it's kind of remembering that you just get to

761
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: observe the thoughts. You don't need to beat yourself up

762
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 2: for the thoughts being there. You know, having those doubts

763
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: isn't a sign that you're a mean, unloving person, or

764
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: even that you don't love your partner. It's just a

765
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: sign that your brain has been trained to think in

766
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: a certain way about relationships right now. So I would

767
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 2: always say, if you notice your feeling guilt, if you're

768
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: shaming yourself, try and shift to some self compassion of like,

769
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 2: I'm just a human with a very normal human brain,

770
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 2: and that's okay. You know, my fears and doubts aren't me.

771
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 2: I'm just the observer of them. That's okay.

772
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: There's a new therapeutic practice called radical self compassion that

773
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: I came across the through you a few years ago.

774
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: Just like change my life. It's like you can you

775
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: can promise to unconditionally love someone else. Why can't you

776
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: promise to unconditionally love yourself? Yeah, yeah, that's completely possible.

777
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: It's also coming back to this. You know, there's a

778
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: term OCD is in this is in relationship OCD. OCD

779
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: is defined in large part by intrusive thoughts that we

780
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: feel like we don't have control all over. Yeah, that

781
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: really aligns with this guilt, this sense of like why

782
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: am I thinking this? I must be a bad person.

783
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: And people with just you know, regular ocedo you will

784
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: find that a lot, like why am I thinking about?

785
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: Why am I thinking about crashing this car? Why am

786
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: I suddenly thinking these terrible things? This means something about me?

787
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: And what you're saying is you know, it doesn't, which

788
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: I think is really really beautiful.

789
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it totally doesn't. It's just the way your brain

790
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: has been trained to think right now, and that's okay.

791
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 2: You can just be It's almost like you can think

792
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 2: of your brain as this separate entity from you like it.

793
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: You can use different analogies, whether you want to think

794
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 2: of it like a scared, frightened animal, like a little toddler,

795
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 2: you know, like you're the parent of it, like whatever

796
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: analogy works for you. But you want to remember that

797
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: you are the manager of your mind, You're not your mind,

798
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 2: and really changing your relationship to it is so important.

799
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 2: If every time your brain says something to you, you

800
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: freak out and take it super seriously, or you beat

801
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 2: yourself up for having it, or you start to scream

802
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 2: it in why you like this, you know that's not

803
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: going to be a very great way of managing it

804
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 2: versus calmly being able to observe what it's saying and

805
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: guide it to where you want it to go.

806
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: Again, such beautiful advice. Well, we're going to take one

807
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 1: more short break and when we return, we've got some

808
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: wonderful listener questions, so stay with us, Okay, Rebecca. This

809
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: is something I've been doing recently where you know, there

810
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: are just so many niche questions that people have for

811
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: me out there about specific topics, and I want to

812
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: make sure that we cover everything that they ask So

813
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: I've got four listener questions for you today, actually three

814
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 1: listener questions and one bonus question from me. So I'm

815
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: going to tell you those right now, starting with this

816
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: first question, which is coming from Emma. I feel like

817
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: I'm totally madly in love with my partner, and we

818
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: have a beautiful relationship except for one thing. I feel

819
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: like we cannot communicate and we're always having fights slash

820
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: tension over the same things over and over again. Should

821
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: I break up with them or do I just accept

822
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: this as a flaw that they will always have and

823
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: live with it.

824
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting question, and I think it was

825
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: kind of hard for me to give an answer, in

826
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: the sense of knowing more about the context of the

827
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 2: situation would be really important. But also there is no

828
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: right answer. You know, there's no expert out there that

829
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 2: can tell you what relationship is right for you or

830
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,959
Speaker 2: when to stay or when to go. That's never my job.

831
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 2: But I think before you make a decision to leave

832
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 2: or staying, is just to do some real self reflection

833
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: on your own thoughts and feelings and the way you're

834
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: showing up. Because if you do decide to leave, this

835
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: can just be a really great kind of opportunity for

836
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 2: you to take back control of who you are in relationships.

837
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: So you know, noticing, Okay, what is the pattern in

838
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: this communication? Is it that I say something, that they

839
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: say something, and then you know, I get defensive, then

840
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 2: they get defensive, like you want to just look at

841
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 2: what is going on and really come back to owning

842
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: your side of it. You know, Okay, well, how are

843
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: you approaching conversations? What is the feelings you're having, and

844
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 2: what are the reoccurring thoughts driving that? You know? Do

845
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 2: you keep making him sighing, enduring an argument, mean he

846
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 2: is unbothered or like whatever? And can we just let's

847
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 2: just challenge some of that so we can see is

848
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: there a different way to navigate these moments that might

849
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 2: turn the volume down on them completely, that might make

850
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 2: it less of a problem. So again, that's really hard

851
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 2: to just to coach on him and just a short

852
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 2: pip the answer on a podcast, but I would do

853
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 2: some work on that really looking at, Okay, what are

854
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: my thoughts and feelings during these situations and how do

855
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 2: those thoughts and feelings have me showing up? And is

856
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: that intentional? Am I really showing up as my intentional

857
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 2: higher self in these moments? And if not, no, there's

858
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 2: no shame there. We all struggle with that from time

859
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 2: to time. But spend a moment just trying to work

860
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: on that for yourself. And I always advise getting curious

861
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 2: about what might be going on in our partner's brain too.

862
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 2: You know, if your partner keeps having the same response

863
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: to something, let's get curious. You know what might that

864
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 2: be about for them? You know, do they keep hearing

865
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 2: something you're saying and interpreting it as they're not good enough?

866
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 2: You know, me and my wife had this at the

867
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 2: start of our relationship. Whenever I kind of gave some

868
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 2: feedback or some criticism on something, she'd get very defensive.

869
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 2: And when I kind of dropped into that curiosity and

870
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 2: even got curious with her about you know, what is

871
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: it that comes up for you when I say that

872
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: what's going on for you? It was that she thought

873
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: I was saying she was a bad partner and I

874
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 2: wasn't saying that at all, but that was what her

875
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 2: brain was hearing. So I think we can bring that

876
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: curiosity and then see what comes out of that. But

877
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 2: but yeah, there's going to be at some point where

878
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: you've really worked on yourself in it. You know, you're

879
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: doing your best, your showing coupas your best self, and

880
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: the other person isn't able to meet you where you

881
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: want them to be, or that they're not able to

882
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 2: kind of have the same values with you in terms

883
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: of communication and open nurse or you know, emotional regulation,

884
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 2: whatever it is. And I think, yeah, sometimes it's accepting that, Okay,

885
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 2: this is the person for who they are, This is

886
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 2: who they are. Is this someone I want to commit

887
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 2: to loving for the good, the bad, the ugly?

888
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: I love that advice. Our second question comes from a

889
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: listener called Sean. Sean asks, is there a correlation between

890
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: relationship or CD and an anxious attachment style?

891
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I would definitely say so. I think

892
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: with anyone with an anxious attachment style, their brain is

893
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 2: kind of programmed to see relationships as dangerous unsafe. They

894
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 2: think that how this person behaves will either create safety

895
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 2: or you know, danger, So they are constantly monitoring, you know,

896
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 2: what's this person doing. What does it mean about me?

897
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 2: If they leave me? What does it mean about me

898
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: if they you know, don't, if they're not as interested anymore.

899
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,720
Speaker 2: And this this kind of focus on the other person

900
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 2: to create this inner feeling of safety and secure totally,

901
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: of course, then relates to r OCD because it's kind

902
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: of the same fixation. The brain is seeing that thing

903
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 2: outside of you, that person, that relationship as either safe

904
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 2: or dangerous and trying to work out which it is

905
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 2: and kind of create safety from it. So yeah, I

906
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 2: definitely think there's a there's a correlation there, And for me,

907
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: I think whether it's our ROCD, whether it's anxious attachment,

908
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 2: it's really coming back to looking at your internal experience

909
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 2: rather than trying to focus on the external, rather than

910
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: focusing on what is my partner doing or not doing?

911
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 2: It's okay, what are the thoughts and feelings I'm having

912
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: and what is that bringing up? Like, what is whatever's

913
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 2: going on out here bringing up within me? Because that's

914
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 2: where the safety and security is actually created. It's never

915
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 2: created by the thing outside of us. It's created by

916
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: our own thoughts and the beliefs we have. So yeah,

917
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 2: I hope that answers that question. There's definitely a correlation,

918
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: And yeah, coming back to whichever it is is, getting

919
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 2: curious about your internal experience is really important.

920
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, excellent advice. So this is the final listener question.

921
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: My relationship OCD is so bad that I cannot go

922
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: more than a day without thinking that I should break

923
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: up with my partner. I love them, but some part

924
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: of me really just wants a break from my own thoughts.

925
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: Would you recommend taking some time away just to get

926
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: my relationship OCAD under order slash regulated, or should I

927
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: stick it out and work with them.

928
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: It's a really good question, and I kind of want

929
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: to say that there's no right or wrong. If you

930
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 2: feel like you just really need a break, do it.

931
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 2: You know, you know what's right for you. Let yourself

932
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: be the guide of that. But one thing I will

933
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: say is that often when we're experiencing an emotion we

934
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 2: don't like, like anxiety, we think the solution is to

935
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: remove the external thing that we're blaming for causing it.

936
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: So with RCD, we think anxious attachment, it's the partner.

937
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 2: We think, let's remove them and then I won't have

938
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: to have these thoughts and feelings. And there's some truth

939
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: in that. You know, if that's the thing that triggers

940
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: the thoughts and feelings, okay, you're probably going to get

941
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: some relief. But what we don't really realize is that

942
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 2: well that those thoughts and feelings are still going to

943
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 2: be there the minute we go back to the relationship

944
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 2: or the minute we start another relationship. You know, I've

945
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 2: seen so many people leave relationships thinking, Okay, this partner

946
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 2: was the problem. I'm going to leave, and then they

947
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: have the same anxious, doubtful thoughts and the next one

948
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh damn it. Like it turns out

949
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 2: changing the partner didn't really work. So my advice, if

950
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: you feel like you're able, if you don't feel like

951
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: you know you're at a real burnt out place with it,

952
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: that you just need the break, take that if you

953
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: need it. But I would also consider what if instead

954
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 2: of trying to escape the thoughts, what if I could

955
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 2: work on changing my relationship to them. So if your

956
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: brain keeps offering you the thought this relationship is wrong

957
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 2: for me, I should end this relationship. You want to

958
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 2: start changing your relationship to that thought, So when it

959
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 2: comes up, it'd be like, oh, there's my brain's favorite

960
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: story again. I'm noticing my brain is offering me that

961
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: story again, that this relationship is wrong for me. Interesting, Like,

962
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 2: here's my brain's favorite story to tell me right now,

963
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 2: and kind of change how seriously you're taking it? Consider

964
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 2: how does it make sense that your brain is offering

965
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,479
Speaker 2: this to you? Oh, it makes total sense. My brain

966
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 2: wants to keep going back here because it's terrified of

967
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: this relationship being wrong for me, or it's terrified of

968
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: me ever having to go for a breakup in five

969
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 2: years time. Okay, so it makes sense that my brain

970
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 2: keeps wanting to offer me these thoughts. So there's so

971
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 2: much more work you can do, and that there's different

972
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: kind of tools you can use for diffusing thoughts. There's

973
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 2: things that you can kind of sing the intrusive thought

974
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 2: to yourself that kind of lightens the mood of it.

975
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 2: There's things like kind of seeing the thought coming from this,

976
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 2: like separate voice from you. That there's different things you

977
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 2: can do. But that would be my advice to you

978
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 2: is how can you make the occur of this thought

979
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 2: less of a problem? Because what that's going to do

980
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 2: is turn down the volume on it altogether. It's going

981
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 2: to seem like less of a problem, and from there

982
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: your anxiety is going to come down a lot as well.

983
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: This final question is for me, and I ask every

984
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: single guest on the show this question, what is one

985
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: piece of advice you'd have for anyone in their twenties

986
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with what we talked about today.

987
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,479
Speaker 2: Well, the thing I was going to say was change

988
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 2: our relationship to our thoughts, but I guess I can't

989
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 2: say that we've got nothing.

990
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,240
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a honestly.

991
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know it's difficult, and yeah, honestly, then the

992
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 2: piece of advice I'd give to anyone in their twenties

993
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 2: is just to go easy on themselves. I know that

994
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 2: sounds like such a basic thing to say, but I

995
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 2: think sometime it does kind of tie into what we're

996
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 2: talking about. But we have so much pressure from things

997
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 2: we see on social media, from expectations maybe our parents

998
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: have a boss, from what our you know, friends are doing,

999
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 2: and I think just remembering that you know, life is

1000
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 2: supposed to be fun, that you know, you can actually

1001
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 2: change so much of your experience of what you're going

1002
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: through in any situation by just lightening up and being

1003
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 2: a little bit more of a friend to yourself about it,

1004
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 2: you know, offering yourself that compassion, being your own biggest cheerleader,

1005
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 2: and remembering that you know that there's nothing that could

1006
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 2: happen that you couldn't be equipped to handle. And that

1007
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 2: is something I really focus on a lot with my

1008
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 2: own clients, is looking at whatever that theor is that

1009
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: worst case scenario, and considering, you know, how could I

1010
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 2: feel empowered to show up to handle that if it happened,

1011
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 2: you know, what would I want to think and feel

1012
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 2: if that happened. So yeah, I think kind of a

1013
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: mixed bag of it. Advice that of course, that's always

1014
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 2: going to say. Your relationship to your thoughts and changing

1015
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 2: that is so so important, but also working on having

1016
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 2: more of that lighthearted, compassionate, you know, kind of supportive

1017
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: relationship with yourself is such a game changer. And if

1018
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 2: you can master that in your twenties, your thirties, your forties,

1019
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 2: it's gonna all be great. If you can work on

1020
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: that relationship with you where you know, I'm going to

1021
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 2: have my own back no matter what happens. You know,

1022
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 2: it's gonna be great.

1023
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: That's such a resounding, beautiful way to finish this episode.

1024
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for coming on.

1025
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to leave all of your links below. But

1026
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: where can people find you? Yeah?

1027
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 2: Amazing. So I'm on Instagram mainly, so you can find

1028
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 2: me out Rebecca or coaching, so that's Rebecca and then

1029
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 2: O r E Coaching. You can also can find me

1030
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,720
Speaker 2: on my podcast which is Master Your Relationship Mind Drama

1031
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'll I'll send you all the links to

1032
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 2: the website and things like that. But yeah, it's Instagram

1033
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 2: on my podcast mainly where people can come find me

1034
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 2: if they want to know more about thought work and

1035
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 2: managing their thoughts and managing their anxiety. I lot about

1036
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:01,439
Speaker 2: that on the podcast as well.

1037
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: I know your podcast is actually the perfect If this

1038
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: is an episode that you really related to go and

1039
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: check out Rebecca's podcast because there is so much advice there.

1040
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: But as always, if you enjoyed this episode as well,

1041
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: share it with a friend who might need to hear it.

1042
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 1: Leave a five star review. Wherever you are listening, make

1043
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,439
Speaker 1: sure you're following along, and make sure you're following along

1044
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: on Instagram. At that psychology podcast, It's where I got

1045
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 1: the listener questions today. It's where I love to engage

1046
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,439
Speaker 1: with you all. If you've made it this far into

1047
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: the episode, Hello Lucky, Lucky Lucky. I want you to

1048
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 1: leave a little magic crystal ball emoji in the comments

1049
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: because that's what we think our relationship OCD is and

1050
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: it's not. So it's also a great way to hear

1051
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 1: they listeners of that. Yeah, who's listened this far? And

1052
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: as always, we will be back next week. Until then,

1053
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: stay safe, please be kind, in the theme of today's episode,

1054
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: be gentle with yourself, and we will talk very very soon.