WEBVTT - The Waiting, Part 3 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:05.240 My Welcome to stot to Blow Your Mind, the production 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:14.120 of My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.919 Your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.560 and we're back with part three of our talk about queueing. 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:22.960 And the previous episodes we talked about the mechanics of 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:27.520 various kinds of queuing and lining up for things, queuing psychology, 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.640 queuing in traffic, and the particular anguish of of line 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.879 cutting or line or que jumping, as as they might 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.440 say in Great Britain. Uh. And there was a thing 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.040 I wanted to start off with today, which was following 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.120 up on study I brought up in the previous episode 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:44.920 because there was another thing about it that I found 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:49.000 really interesting and I forgot to mention last time. Uh. So, Rob, 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.960 you remember last time we talked about the Stanley Milgram 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.720 experiments with line cutting in the nineteen eighties. Yes, Stanley 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.800 Milgram sending his um his agents out into the world 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:03.320 to cause havoc in the lines, to disrupt lines and 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.959 uh and so discord for the purposes of his studies. Yes, 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:09.959 roving bands of actors to go throughout the city of 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.320 New York and cut lines all over the place just 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.720 to see what happened. Uh. And it's mentioned in the 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.960 study that the main types of locations, the ones that 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:24.200 are named are train stations and betting parlors. So cool um. 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.839 But but anyway. The study was published in the Journal 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.399 of Personality and Social Psychology N. Six. It was by 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.320 Mill Gram, Hillary J. Liberty, Raymond Toledo, and Joyce Wackenhut 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.039 and was called Response to Intrusion into Waiting Lines. Uh. 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.199 And so to quickly review some of the main things 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:44.760 they found. They found that obviously people did not like 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.000 when somebody cut in line in front of them, but 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.200 most of the time the line cutter basically got away 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.000 with it. I went back to check the exact numbers 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:57.040 and across all of the different conditions, about twenty two 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.559 percent of the time people attempted to eject then jumper 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.880 through verbal objections. They might yell at them or tell 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:05.280 them to go to the back of the line and 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.080 so forth. Uh. And then about ten percent of the 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.680 time they would somehow physically interact with the line cutter. 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.520 And this could range from you know, aggressively tapping them 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.040 on the shoulder or tugging the sleeves saying like, hey, 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.720 you know, what are you doing to actually grabbing or 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.720 shoving them out of the line. That was about ten 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:24.880 percent of the time, But you might hear from those 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.360 numbers that the majority of the time the line cutter 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.760 basically got in, you know, got away with, maybe not 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.919 more than just hostile stairs. Yeah, I mean it makes 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.760 you realize that part of it is just how susceptible 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:40.320 are you too, I guess social cues, but also just 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.960 the the ravages of social shaming, Like if you are 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:48.200 completely unashamed, then you can probably get yourself right to 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.320 the front of the line a lot of the time. Yeah, 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.200 but the question is how many people are that shameless 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:54.519 that That's one of the main things I want to 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.280 come back to you here now. Just to mention a 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.520 couple of other things. One of the other things they 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:02.040 found was not surprisingly, people behind the line cutter were 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.440 more likely to object than people in front of them. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:06.840 And the other thing they found was that you could 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.720 really put a damper on the overall reaction to line 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.519 cutting by inserting what the authors called buffers. And these 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:19.000 would be other actors, other experiment ers posing as normal 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.760 rule following line standards who do not react when the 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.160 line intrusion occurs, so you just have another experiment or 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.919 stand in the line, and then the line cutter comes 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.960 and cuts right in front of them, and they don't react. 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.400 They just stand there passively. People in the rest of 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.320 the line are also much less likely to react when 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:40.920 there's somebody like that there, which indicates that we tend 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.600 to look to other people for clues about how best 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.320 to react when we see an apparent violation of q justice, 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:52.200 and we especially look to the person directly behind the intrusion. 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:56.000 The person directly behind the line cutter has this special 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.320 obligation to object, and if they don't, other people in 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.480 the line are much less likely to speak up. But anyway, 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:04.920 I realized that there were actually a few other interesting 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.000 things about the study that I didn't get to in 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.119 the last episode, and I wanted to bring them up now. 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:13.560 And one is again a demonstration of the profundity of 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.760 the sense of norms governing queuing, demonstrated by the fact 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.599 that despite people getting away with line cutting most of 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.680 the time without major objections from the line, the actors 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:30.000 who had to carry out these experiments were absolutely mortified 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.479 by what they were doing to such an extent that 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.520 the authors had to to like include a section of 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.880 their right up describing the reactions of the experimenters themselves, 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.240 And I just want to read from this. The several 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:47.279 experimental confederates reported highly negative affect associated with the task 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.599 of intruding into lines. Before each trial, many of the 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:56.200 confederates procrastinated at length, often pacing nervously near the target area, 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.960 spending as much as half an hour working up the 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.919 nerve to in rude. For some, the anticipation of intruding 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.359 was so unpleasant that physical symptoms such as pallor and 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:11.000 nausea accompanied intrusions. Reactions of this type have been reported 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:15.440 previously by Garfinkel and Milgrim and sabini Uh. They constitute 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:20.280 the quote inhibitory anxiety that ordinarily prevents individuals from breaching 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:24.680 social norms, and indicate that the internal restraints against intruding 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.360 into lines play a significant role in assuring the integrity 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:33.000 of the line. So again, just a powerful demonstration of 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.599 the profundity of the line cutting taboo, at least in 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.919 you know, New York in the nineteen eighties. Yeah, I 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.200 mean this makes sense. I know I've been in the 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.800 situation where I'll get to the front of the line, 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.040 and there'll be something out the line, like I need 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.960 to go get enough exchange a package or something, you know, 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.760 to exchange one product for another, and the cashier will 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:57.640 tell me, we'll just come back up to the front 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.839 of the line when you get this taken care of. Which, 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.520 on one level, okay, I have the permission of the 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.040 teller or you know whoever the individual of of semi 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.400 power is in the scenario. But I also know that 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:13.359 the people behind me may not have that information, especially 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.279 if I'm gone long enough for one or two people 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.600 to cycle through. Like, how are they supposed to know 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.359 that I am I'm not a line cutter, And I 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:24.760 can't help but be anxious about that. I know exactly 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.360 what you're talking about. Yeah, Like the fear that, even 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.520 if you have a legitimate excuse, just the fear of 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:35.600 the appearance of not having a legitimate excuse is terrifying. Right, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.000 You feel like you need to announce yourself when you 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.960 get back in and like loudly proclaim that you're not 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.240 cutting in line. You're supposed to do it as if 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.560 you're in a Tim Robinson sketch. I'm supposed to be 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:51.919 doing this, But so another really interesting question here in 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.160 the Milgram study is that despite the fact that the 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.440 taboo on cutting in line is so strong, people often 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.919 tended to get away with it. Nonetheless, only in a 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.520 minority of cases did the line actually ban together to 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:10.280 verbally or physically try to eject the intruder. Rather, as 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.400 we mentioned last time, the defense of the qu integrity 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:18.400 was primarily local rather than systemic, and it depends heavily 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.960 on the behavior of the person directly behind the line cutter. 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:25.120 So the question is why is this, Like the fear 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.680 of cutting in line is so strong that it makes 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.760 a person who's about to do it for the sake 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.440 of a scientific experiment go pace in the lobby for 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.440 half an hour and maybe like nearly vomiting a garbage can, 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.640 And yet the majority of the time the line can't 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.800 get it together to defend itself against a cheater. You 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:44.840 know that those two things would seem to be kind 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:48.520 of in contradiction with each other. What's going on here? Well, 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:51.600 Milgram and co authors had some ideas about this, which 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:53.760 they lay out in their discussion section. I thought these 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.200 were interesting, so I wanted to go through them. One 0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:00.280 of them is that most natural lines are composed people 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.880 who are strangers to each other, leading to a general 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:08.400 reticence in social engagement. Here, and they hypothesized that lines 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.600 composed of people familiar to one another might be much 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:15.800 more likely to act in a unified defensive way more effectively. 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:17.720 But the other thing they point out here that I 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.480 thought was really interesting was about the actual spatial arrangement 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.240 of the line. So when you have people lined up 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:28.800 in a normal American style queue for something, everybody's facing 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:33.280 the same direction and thus no person is facing anyone else. 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.560 And they argue that this actually discourages group cooperation. So 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.520 like if the people in the line could look at 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.920 each other's faces more easily and see how everybody else 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:47.320 was reacting more easily, unified defensive action might be more common. 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.920 This makes sense because I have I when I am 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.760 in the line for security at the airport. You the 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.120 way that the line is typically arranged. You know, it's 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.680 snaking back and forth. You're going to be facing sometimes 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:04.040 you know two different rows of people that are facing you. Uh, 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.079 you may make eye contact with them, or at least 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.800 you'll see their face. And it is this this situation 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.280 where you're forced to acknowledge on some level of the 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.760 humanity of all the other people in line. You know, 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.640 it's I'm not saying it's a real icebreaker of a 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:21.880 of a of an environment. You know, you don't feel 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.280 like you're bonding at the soul level with all of 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.840 these people, but but I could see where Yeah, this 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.920 is a more humanizing experience than just simply standing, um, 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.800 you know, in line, one after the other, just looking 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.120 at the back of everybody's head. I know the experience 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.160 you're talking about. Yeah, so a a snaking serpentine line 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.679 may be different than a single file or I mean, 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.160 I guess they're both single file than a straight line 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.400 that doesn't have any angles where you can look back 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:51.000 at other line standards. Another thing cutting against people's defense 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.480 of the queue as a whole might be that mounting 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:58.160 a systemic attack against an intruder in the line. So 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.439 if that's going to involve you, like approach sing them 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.120 or something like that, that might cause people to lose 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.360 their own place in line. So when you're standing in line, 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.320 you're very concerned with like making sure that the people 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:11.840 around you know where your place in the line is 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.680 and not leaving that place and leading to any confusion 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.760 or perhaps forfeiting the time you've already spent waiting, so 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.120 you're you're more likely to just keep your head down 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:24.960 and not get into situations that could cause disruption of 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.600 the line system and in keeping without the third issue 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.440 that milgraman co author's raises the right quote, A system's 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:36.760 resilience depends not only on its capacity to defend against disturbances, 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:41.640 but also its capacity to ignore, adjust to, and tolerate them. 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.920 Although confrontation with the intruder would serve to maintain the 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.480 physical order of the line, it may risk the escalation 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:52.680 of a localized incident into a general freacas, threatening the 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:57.280 disintegration of the entire system. By not challenging the intruder, 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:01.160 a cue may protect the system against the hearance of disorder. 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.760 As Schwartz has written, and this was from a paper 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.719 in nineteen quote, the chaotic dissolution of the que can 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.160 be forestalled not only by the default of deviance, but 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:16.280 also by its contingent toleration. This is great. This lines 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:17.960 up with some of the stuff we were talking about 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.440 last time, like to what extent is it worth it 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:24.280 to confront a single or even a couple of of 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.840 line breakers if it is going to potentially escalate things 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.640 to the point where saying nobody gets that bagel sandwich 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.240 that you're waiting in line for, or you don't get 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:35.960 the bagel sandwich because you are going to jail. Uh 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.760 that sort of thing. Uh. So, yeah, you don't, you don't. 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.720 You can't be so um uh you know, married to 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.280 the idea that the line must not be broken, because 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.200 then otherwise the line could just fall into chaos and 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.080 then once more you're in Tim Robinson sketch instead of 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.160 functioning line. Right, I was trying to think of a comparison. 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.800 It almost makes me think, like, um, imagine you're you're 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.760 playing Monopoly with a number of friends and you're all 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:01.800 high and out having a good time. I think maybe 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:06.880 you're a Monopoly hater, but whatever, whatever, somebody, let's just say, 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.800 for the sake of argument, that you were enjoying Monopoly. Uh, 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.640 and you you're having a great time. Everybody's playing the game, 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.840 and you happen to notice another character cheats another character, 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.080 Like they reach into the bank and they lift out 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.640 a hundred and they tuck it under and nobody else sees. 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.120 Do you bring it up? Because on one hand, you 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.280 don't like cheating, that that's undercutting the spirit of the game. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:28.560 But on the other hand, if you bring it up, 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.240 you're gonna ruin the whole game, Like nobody's having fun 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.200 after that point. Yeah, I don't. I would argue that 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.440 that is in keeping with monopoly experience. You need to 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.559 reach that point where nobody's having fun anymore and relationships 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.240 are ruined. But um, but no, I think I think 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.600 that's Seriously, I think that that's that's a that's a 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:49.760 fair comparison. Um, this probably isn't as good of an example, 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.559 but I was thinking maybe perhaps of playing Dungeons and Dragons, 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.200 like what happens you're the dungeon master or you're the player, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.160 and you realize you forgot to apply a certain well, 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.600 maybe you had an extra attack, you could have made 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:07.160 a couple of rounds ago or there. The monster had 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.000 some other extra like a legendary effect that it could 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.400 have utilized, and you forgot to do it. You've got 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.640 to be willing to roll with the fact that, Okay, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.440 we didn't do that, but but we can't if we 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.200 go back in time, if we try and backtrack, we're 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.280 going to disrupt the experience, We're going to derail the 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.760 train to some extent, and you just have to keep 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.160 moving forward. Right, Sometimes you just have to incorporate and 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.560 tolerate a single malfunction in the system in order to 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.760 not risk stopping the progress of the system in a 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.080 way that would completely derail it. Right. And then they 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:42.960 got a fourth point that I also thought was really interesting. 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:47.080 They argue that allowing the intruder to remain in line 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.880 serves the system in another way, namely co opting those 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.160 who are a threat to its survival. Once an intruder 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.439 is part of the line, she or he has an 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:01.760 investment in its continued existence. Okay, that's kind of kind 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.480 of true. I can see that. So that means is 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.960 that basically saying, well, okay, the person who just cut 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.800 in line, they think the rules don't apply to them. 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:11.720 But it's not like they don't think the rules apply 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:16.280 to anyone. They might be the type to to tell 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.920 someone else not to cut and to enforce the rules 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.360 to some extent, or at least agree with the rules, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.600 like you can't. I guess the thing is, you can't 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.600 exploit a system if you completely disregard all aspects of 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.040 the system, that's true. I mean, once they have cut 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.200 in line successfully, now they've got a stake in maintaining 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.880 the line, and you'd rather maintain the line and get 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.360 out of there than have everything to send into chaos. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.600 And it is kind of like that realization that the 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.760 line is not just about me getting my bagel sandwich, 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.160 it's about everybody being able to get a bagel sandwich 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:51.920 in uh, you know, a reasonable amount of time in 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.440 in a in an effective manner. Yeah. And and this 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.760 also really gets to something we talked about in the 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.880 last episode, and we'll be backed up by by more 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.200 stuff we look at in this episode, which is that 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.320 by and large, studies find that people do regard queuing 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.840 in lines not just as a an economic proposal where 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:14.360 people are trying to maximize their own self interested value, right. Instead, 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.520 people are regarding them more like a social system that 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.480 has norms, and it has a kind of code to it, 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.320 and it has roles within it, and there's a general 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.080 interest in maintaining the integrity of the social system, whether 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:32.320 or not it personally directly benefits you. So anyway, I mean, 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.920 I thought that was interesting about this stuff. In the 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.760 conclusion of the Millgram study here because it's finding that 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.800 a que is like a social system. It's got these 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.960 norms and roles, and the there is extremely strong internal 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:49.200 pressure to obey these norms. But the inherent physical and 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:53.080 social mechanics of the single file line sometimes work against 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:57.640 the line's ability to defend itself systematically. And then I 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.840 wanted to read one more thing that I thought was interesting. 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.160 For their their conclusion, they write, quote, what is the 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:07.960 main bonding mechanism of the queue? It resides in replicated segments. 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.240 The principal focus for each person in line is the 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.560 space between himself or herself and the person standing just 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.800 in front. This is the space the quere will defend 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.080 most vigorously. If the quere is to defend the line 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.040 at all, A willingness to object to intrusions quickly attenuates 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.240 with positions further down the line. The que will hold 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:32.000 together if each member defends the space immediately in front, 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.320 which the qure often experiences as a zone of special responsibility. 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.640 The queue is thus articulated through a series of overlapping zones, 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.320 each centering on the individual standing in line and extending 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.960 a few removes forward and a remove behind. The queue 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.600 is segmental in structure, and as often occurs in systems 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:56.640 of linear composition. Segmental structures are particularly likely to arise 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:01.720 in short lived systems formed through accretion of their constituent units, 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.560 as in the case of waiting lines. So a line 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.359 is both a coherent social system that has incentives for 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.160 defending its integrity from end to end, but in practice 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.359 it is modular in nature. It's built out of an 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:18.000 assembly of smaller social units with their own local responsibilities, 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.840 and that this is characteristic of many types of self 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.240 organizing structures that people come up with. When you don't 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:29.439 have a top down mandate for how something should be organized, 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.160 you you tend to get a kind of modular structure 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.639 like this with lots of little local rules of enforcement. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.560 And it also makes me think about other ways that 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.680 social systems premised on a kind of holistic sense of 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.879 of coherence also rely on strong local modules. Like I 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:49.280 think about the the tendency of militaries to really put 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.520 emphasis on the relationship between each member and their direct 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.679 superior you know, kind of like the space right in 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:58.879 front of you in line, as opposed to being overly 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.960 concerned about what's going on too far or below your rank. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:04.600 I was just thinking about this. So I think that 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:14.080 the role of various units in a much larger force. Thankank, Thank. 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.879 Before we leave the subject of line cutting, I also 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.520 wanted to talk about a study I came across that 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:25.439 concerns line cutting that I found positively heartwarming. Is again, no, 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.120 it is not. It's one that that starts off sounding 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:29.800 like it's going to be kind of grim and mean, 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.560 but actually is heartwarming in the end, or at least 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.000 a possible interpretation of it is. Uh So, the next 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.560 study I wanted to talk about is by Felix Oberholzer 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:43.359 G and it was published in Kick Close in I 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.879 think two thousand three, or perhaps republished in two thousand 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.800 and six. But anyway, it's called a market for time 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:53.760 fairness and efficiency and waiting lines. And so this takes 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.439 an economic look at ed waiting in line and the 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.280 author here writes in the abstract quote in situations of 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:05.200 excess demand, many firms use waiting lists to allocate products 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.800 and services among their customers. The resulting allocation is likely 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:13.560 to be inefficient, creating opportunities for parado improving trades among 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:17.280 those who are waiting in line. So a note about parado. 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.000 So parado efficiency is a concept that you will sometimes 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:27.720 hear invoked by economists. Basically, parado means gains without compensating losses. 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.800 So a parado improvement is when you take some initial 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.360 situation and you change it so that at least one 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.880 person in it is better off and nobody is worse off. 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.760 So anywhere in any system that you can find opportunities 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.800 for parado improvements, that's a good thing. Basically it means 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:50.240 wins without compensating losses. So that would be for instance, 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:52.159 if there was a rule against wearing a hat in 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:57.639 the office, and nobody in the office had really thought 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.560 about this, but one person really to where I hat 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.359 in the office. You know, if you can change that 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.119 rule and it doesn't offend anybody, and that one person 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.200 gets to where a hat in the office, then they're 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.480 good to go. Like that is a parado improvement. Yes, yes, exactly. 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.359 Or you can often think about parado improvements in types 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.880 of trades of things, or even in in giving, even 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.280 in exchanges of goods, even if you're not being compensated. 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.200 One example, I was trying to think of an example. 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.480 Here's one I thought of all right. Let's say we're 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:28.879 both sitting in a waiting room, we're both bored, and 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.520 I pick up two books from the table beside me. 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:33.879 One is written in English, which I read, and the 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.320 other is written in Spanish, which I do not read. 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.119 And let's say you, the person sitting next to me, 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.600 you are also bored. You would also like some reading 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.040 material you have none, and you do read Spanish. It 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.000 would be a parado improvement for me to just hand 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.000 over the book that's in Spanish to you, right, because 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.399 you are getting something out of it, but it is 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:55.920 of no use whatsoever to me. It is a gain 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.919 for you at no loss to me. Yeah, that makes sense. 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.840 And they're also basically any good situation of economic barter 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.159 where where both parties are are fully satisfied with the 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.640 deal or those can be characterized by parado improvements as well, 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.119 you know the classic like I have more apples than 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.480 I can use, you have more milk than you can use. 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.880 We trade some with each other, we can both feel 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.159 like we're better off than we started. And so the 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:21.479 author here is trying to apply this parado improvement thing 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.720 to the queuing context. So they say, in the queuing context, 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:29.160 the trading of places is rare, and inefficiencies often persist 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.360 over time. So, for example, you might have a situation 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:34.879 where I'm really short on time, and it would be 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.800 very valuable to me to pay a fee to skip 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.080 to the head of the line, maybe to pay everybody 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.160 in line to skip ahead of them. And in some situations, 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:45.239 other people who are waiting in line, who are not 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.520 particularly in a rush, might prefer to take my money 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.280 and wait a little bit longer. And yet while there 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.240 are forms of this, I was thinking about how you 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.160 don't see this happening much in many like wild type 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.520 queuing scenarios, and when you do, it's usually not paying 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.159