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Speaker 1: My Welcome to stot to Blow Your Mind, the production

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Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: Your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick,

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Speaker 1: and we're back with part three of our talk about queueing.

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Speaker 1: And the previous episodes we talked about the mechanics of

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Speaker 1: various kinds of queuing and lining up for things, queuing psychology,

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Speaker 1: queuing in traffic, and the particular anguish of of line

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Speaker 1: cutting or line or que jumping, as as they might

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Speaker 1: say in Great Britain. Uh. And there was a thing

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Speaker 1: I wanted to start off with today, which was following

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Speaker 1: up on study I brought up in the previous episode

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Speaker 1: because there was another thing about it that I found

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Speaker 1: really interesting and I forgot to mention last time. Uh. So, Rob,

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Speaker 1: you remember last time we talked about the Stanley Milgram

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Speaker 1: experiments with line cutting in the nineteen eighties. Yes, Stanley

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Speaker 1: Milgram sending his um his agents out into the world

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Speaker 1: to cause havoc in the lines, to disrupt lines and

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Speaker 1: uh and so discord for the purposes of his studies. Yes,

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Speaker 1: roving bands of actors to go throughout the city of

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Speaker 1: New York and cut lines all over the place just

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Speaker 1: to see what happened. Uh. And it's mentioned in the

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Speaker 1: study that the main types of locations, the ones that

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Speaker 1: are named are train stations and betting parlors. So cool um.

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Speaker 1: But but anyway. The study was published in the Journal

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Speaker 1: of Personality and Social Psychology N. Six. It was by

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Speaker 1: Mill Gram, Hillary J. Liberty, Raymond Toledo, and Joyce Wackenhut

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Speaker 1: and was called Response to Intrusion into Waiting Lines. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so to quickly review some of the main things

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Speaker 1: they found. They found that obviously people did not like

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Speaker 1: when somebody cut in line in front of them, but

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Speaker 1: most of the time the line cutter basically got away

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Speaker 1: with it. I went back to check the exact numbers

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Speaker 1: and across all of the different conditions, about twenty two

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Speaker 1: percent of the time people attempted to eject then jumper

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Speaker 1: through verbal objections. They might yell at them or tell

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Speaker 1: them to go to the back of the line and

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Speaker 1: so forth. Uh. And then about ten percent of the

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Speaker 1: time they would somehow physically interact with the line cutter.

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Speaker 1: And this could range from you know, aggressively tapping them

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Speaker 1: on the shoulder or tugging the sleeves saying like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, what are you doing to actually grabbing or

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Speaker 1: shoving them out of the line. That was about ten

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Speaker 1: percent of the time, But you might hear from those

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Speaker 1: numbers that the majority of the time the line cutter

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Speaker 1: basically got in, you know, got away with, maybe not

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Speaker 1: more than just hostile stairs. Yeah, I mean it makes

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Speaker 1: you realize that part of it is just how susceptible

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Speaker 1: are you too, I guess social cues, but also just

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Speaker 1: the the ravages of social shaming, Like if you are

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Speaker 1: completely unashamed, then you can probably get yourself right to

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Speaker 1: the front of the line a lot of the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the question is how many people are that shameless

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Speaker 1: that That's one of the main things I want to

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Speaker 1: come back to you here now. Just to mention a

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Speaker 1: couple of other things. One of the other things they

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Speaker 1: found was not surprisingly, people behind the line cutter were

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Speaker 1: more likely to object than people in front of them.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing they found was that you could

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Speaker 1: really put a damper on the overall reaction to line

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Speaker 1: cutting by inserting what the authors called buffers. And these

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Speaker 1: would be other actors, other experiment ers posing as normal

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Speaker 1: rule following line standards who do not react when the

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Speaker 1: line intrusion occurs, so you just have another experiment or

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Speaker 1: stand in the line, and then the line cutter comes

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Speaker 1: and cuts right in front of them, and they don't react.

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Speaker 1: They just stand there passively. People in the rest of

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Speaker 1: the line are also much less likely to react when

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Speaker 1: there's somebody like that there, which indicates that we tend

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Speaker 1: to look to other people for clues about how best

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Speaker 1: to react when we see an apparent violation of q justice,

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Speaker 1: and we especially look to the person directly behind the intrusion.

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Speaker 1: The person directly behind the line cutter has this special

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Speaker 1: obligation to object, and if they don't, other people in

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Speaker 1: the line are much less likely to speak up. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: I realized that there were actually a few other interesting

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Speaker 1: things about the study that I didn't get to in

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Speaker 1: the last episode, and I wanted to bring them up now.

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Speaker 1: And one is again a demonstration of the profundity of

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Speaker 1: the sense of norms governing queuing, demonstrated by the fact

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Speaker 1: that despite people getting away with line cutting most of

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Speaker 1: the time without major objections from the line, the actors

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Speaker 1: who had to carry out these experiments were absolutely mortified

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Speaker 1: by what they were doing to such an extent that

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Speaker 1: the authors had to to like include a section of

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Speaker 1: their right up describing the reactions of the experimenters themselves,

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Speaker 1: And I just want to read from this. The several

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Speaker 1: experimental confederates reported highly negative affect associated with the task

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Speaker 1: of intruding into lines. Before each trial, many of the

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Speaker 1: confederates procrastinated at length, often pacing nervously near the target area,

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Speaker 1: spending as much as half an hour working up the

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Speaker 1: nerve to in rude. For some, the anticipation of intruding

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Speaker 1: was so unpleasant that physical symptoms such as pallor and

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Speaker 1: nausea accompanied intrusions. Reactions of this type have been reported

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Speaker 1: previously by Garfinkel and Milgrim and sabini Uh. They constitute

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Speaker 1: the quote inhibitory anxiety that ordinarily prevents individuals from breaching

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Speaker 1: social norms, and indicate that the internal restraints against intruding

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Speaker 1: into lines play a significant role in assuring the integrity

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Speaker 1: of the line. So again, just a powerful demonstration of

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Speaker 1: the profundity of the line cutting taboo, at least in

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Speaker 1: you know, New York in the nineteen eighties. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean this makes sense. I know I've been in the

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Speaker 1: situation where I'll get to the front of the line,

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Speaker 1: and there'll be something out the line, like I need

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Speaker 1: to go get enough exchange a package or something, you know,

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Speaker 1: to exchange one product for another, and the cashier will

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Speaker 1: tell me, we'll just come back up to the front

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Speaker 1: of the line when you get this taken care of. Which,

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Speaker 1: on one level, okay, I have the permission of the

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Speaker 1: teller or you know whoever the individual of of semi

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Speaker 1: power is in the scenario. But I also know that

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Speaker 1: the people behind me may not have that information, especially

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Speaker 1: if I'm gone long enough for one or two people

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Speaker 1: to cycle through. Like, how are they supposed to know

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Speaker 1: that I am I'm not a line cutter, And I

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Speaker 1: can't help but be anxious about that. I know exactly

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Yeah, Like the fear that, even

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Speaker 1: if you have a legitimate excuse, just the fear of

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Speaker 1: the appearance of not having a legitimate excuse is terrifying. Right,

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Speaker 1: You feel like you need to announce yourself when you

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Speaker 1: get back in and like loudly proclaim that you're not

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Speaker 1: cutting in line. You're supposed to do it as if

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Speaker 1: you're in a Tim Robinson sketch. I'm supposed to be

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Speaker 1: doing this, But so another really interesting question here in

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Speaker 1: the Milgram study is that despite the fact that the

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Speaker 1: taboo on cutting in line is so strong, people often

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Speaker 1: tended to get away with it. Nonetheless, only in a

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Speaker 1: minority of cases did the line actually ban together to

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Speaker 1: verbally or physically try to eject the intruder. Rather, as

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Speaker 1: we mentioned last time, the defense of the qu integrity

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Speaker 1: was primarily local rather than systemic, and it depends heavily

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Speaker 1: on the behavior of the person directly behind the line cutter.

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Speaker 1: So the question is why is this, Like the fear

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Speaker 1: of cutting in line is so strong that it makes

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Speaker 1: a person who's about to do it for the sake

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Speaker 1: of a scientific experiment go pace in the lobby for

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Speaker 1: half an hour and maybe like nearly vomiting a garbage can,

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Speaker 1: And yet the majority of the time the line can't

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Speaker 1: get it together to defend itself against a cheater. You

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Speaker 1: know that those two things would seem to be kind

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Speaker 1: of in contradiction with each other. What's going on here? Well,

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Speaker 1: Milgram and co authors had some ideas about this, which

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Speaker 1: they lay out in their discussion section. I thought these

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Speaker 1: were interesting, so I wanted to go through them. One

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Speaker 1: of them is that most natural lines are composed people

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Speaker 1: who are strangers to each other, leading to a general

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Speaker 1: reticence in social engagement. Here, and they hypothesized that lines

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Speaker 1: composed of people familiar to one another might be much

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Speaker 1: more likely to act in a unified defensive way more effectively.

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Speaker 1: But the other thing they point out here that I

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Speaker 1: thought was really interesting was about the actual spatial arrangement

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Speaker 1: of the line. So when you have people lined up

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Speaker 1: in a normal American style queue for something, everybody's facing

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Speaker 1: the same direction and thus no person is facing anyone else.

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Speaker 1: And they argue that this actually discourages group cooperation. So

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Speaker 1: like if the people in the line could look at

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Speaker 1: each other's faces more easily and see how everybody else

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Speaker 1: was reacting more easily, unified defensive action might be more common.

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Speaker 1: This makes sense because I have I when I am

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Speaker 1: in the line for security at the airport. You the

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Speaker 1: way that the line is typically arranged. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: snaking back and forth. You're going to be facing sometimes

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Speaker 1: you know two different rows of people that are facing you. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you may make eye contact with them, or at least

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Speaker 1: you'll see their face. And it is this this situation

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Speaker 1: where you're forced to acknowledge on some level of the

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Speaker 1: humanity of all the other people in line. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's I'm not saying it's a real icebreaker of a

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Speaker 1: of a of an environment. You know, you don't feel

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Speaker 1: like you're bonding at the soul level with all of

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Speaker 1: these people, but but I could see where Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is a more humanizing experience than just simply standing, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, in line, one after the other, just looking

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Speaker 1: at the back of everybody's head. I know the experience

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. Yeah, so a a snaking serpentine line

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Speaker 1: may be different than a single file or I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess they're both single file than a straight line

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Speaker 1: that doesn't have any angles where you can look back

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Speaker 1: at other line standards. Another thing cutting against people's defense

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Speaker 1: of the queue as a whole might be that mounting

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Speaker 1: a systemic attack against an intruder in the line. So

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Speaker 1: if that's going to involve you, like approach sing them

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Speaker 1: or something like that, that might cause people to lose

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Speaker 1: their own place in line. So when you're standing in line,

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Speaker 1: you're very concerned with like making sure that the people

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Speaker 1: around you know where your place in the line is

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Speaker 1: and not leaving that place and leading to any confusion

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Speaker 1: or perhaps forfeiting the time you've already spent waiting, so

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Speaker 1: you're you're more likely to just keep your head down

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Speaker 1: and not get into situations that could cause disruption of

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Speaker 1: the line system and in keeping without the third issue

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Speaker 1: that milgraman co author's raises the right quote, A system's

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Speaker 1: resilience depends not only on its capacity to defend against disturbances,

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Speaker 1: but also its capacity to ignore, adjust to, and tolerate them.

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Speaker 1: Although confrontation with the intruder would serve to maintain the

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Speaker 1: physical order of the line, it may risk the escalation

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Speaker 1: of a localized incident into a general freacas, threatening the

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Speaker 1: disintegration of the entire system. By not challenging the intruder,

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Speaker 1: a cue may protect the system against the hearance of disorder.

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Speaker 1: As Schwartz has written, and this was from a paper

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Speaker 1: in nineteen quote, the chaotic dissolution of the que can

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Speaker 1: be forestalled not only by the default of deviance, but

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Speaker 1: also by its contingent toleration. This is great. This lines

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Speaker 1: up with some of the stuff we were talking about

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Speaker 1: last time, like to what extent is it worth it

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Speaker 1: to confront a single or even a couple of of

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Speaker 1: line breakers if it is going to potentially escalate things

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Speaker 1: to the point where saying nobody gets that bagel sandwich

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Speaker 1: that you're waiting in line for, or you don't get

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Speaker 1: the bagel sandwich because you are going to jail. Uh

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Uh. So, yeah, you don't, you don't.

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Speaker 1: You can't be so um uh you know, married to

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Speaker 1: the idea that the line must not be broken, because

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Speaker 1: then otherwise the line could just fall into chaos and

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Speaker 1: then once more you're in Tim Robinson sketch instead of

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Speaker 1: functioning line. Right, I was trying to think of a comparison.

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Speaker 1: It almost makes me think, like, um, imagine you're you're

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Speaker 1: playing Monopoly with a number of friends and you're all

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Speaker 1: high and out having a good time. I think maybe

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Speaker 1: you're a Monopoly hater, but whatever, whatever, somebody, let's just say,

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Speaker 1: for the sake of argument, that you were enjoying Monopoly. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and you you're having a great time. Everybody's playing the game,

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Speaker 1: and you happen to notice another character cheats another character,

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Speaker 1: Like they reach into the bank and they lift out

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Speaker 1: a hundred and they tuck it under and nobody else sees.

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Speaker 1: Do you bring it up? Because on one hand, you

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Speaker 1: don't like cheating, that that's undercutting the spirit of the game.

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, if you bring it up,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna ruin the whole game, Like nobody's having fun

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Speaker 1: after that point. Yeah, I don't. I would argue that

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Speaker 1: that is in keeping with monopoly experience. You need to

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Speaker 1: reach that point where nobody's having fun anymore and relationships

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Speaker 1: are ruined. But um, but no, I think I think

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Speaker 1: that's Seriously, I think that that's that's a that's a

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Speaker 1: fair comparison. Um, this probably isn't as good of an example,

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Speaker 1: but I was thinking maybe perhaps of playing Dungeons and Dragons,

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Speaker 1: like what happens you're the dungeon master or you're the player,

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Speaker 1: and you realize you forgot to apply a certain well,

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Speaker 1: maybe you had an extra attack, you could have made

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Speaker 1: a couple of rounds ago or there. The monster had

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Speaker 1: some other extra like a legendary effect that it could

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Speaker 1: have utilized, and you forgot to do it. You've got

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Speaker 1: to be willing to roll with the fact that, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we didn't do that, but but we can't if we

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Speaker 1: go back in time, if we try and backtrack, we're

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Speaker 1: going to disrupt the experience, We're going to derail the

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Speaker 1: train to some extent, and you just have to keep

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Speaker 1: moving forward. Right, Sometimes you just have to incorporate and

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Speaker 1: tolerate a single malfunction in the system in order to

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Speaker 1: not risk stopping the progress of the system in a

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Speaker 1: way that would completely derail it. Right. And then they

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Speaker 1: got a fourth point that I also thought was really interesting.

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Speaker 1: They argue that allowing the intruder to remain in line

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Speaker 1: serves the system in another way, namely co opting those

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Speaker 1: who are a threat to its survival. Once an intruder

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Speaker 1: is part of the line, she or he has an

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Speaker 1: investment in its continued existence. Okay, that's kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of true. I can see that. So that means is

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Speaker 1: that basically saying, well, okay, the person who just cut

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Speaker 1: in line, they think the rules don't apply to them.

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Speaker 1: But it's not like they don't think the rules apply

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Speaker 1: to anyone. They might be the type to to tell

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Speaker 1: someone else not to cut and to enforce the rules

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Speaker 1: to some extent, or at least agree with the rules,

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Speaker 1: like you can't. I guess the thing is, you can't

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Speaker 1: exploit a system if you completely disregard all aspects of

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Speaker 1: the system, that's true. I mean, once they have cut

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Speaker 1: in line successfully, now they've got a stake in maintaining

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Speaker 1: the line, and you'd rather maintain the line and get

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Speaker 1: out of there than have everything to send into chaos.

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Speaker 1: And it is kind of like that realization that the

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Speaker 1: line is not just about me getting my bagel sandwich,

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Speaker 1: it's about everybody being able to get a bagel sandwich

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Speaker 1: in uh, you know, a reasonable amount of time in

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Speaker 1: in a in an effective manner. Yeah. And and this

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Speaker 1: also really gets to something we talked about in the

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Speaker 1: last episode, and we'll be backed up by by more

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Speaker 1: stuff we look at in this episode, which is that

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Speaker 1: by and large, studies find that people do regard queuing

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Speaker 1: in lines not just as a an economic proposal where

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Speaker 1: people are trying to maximize their own self interested value, right. Instead,

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Speaker 1: people are regarding them more like a social system that

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Speaker 1: has norms, and it has a kind of code to it,

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Speaker 1: and it has roles within it, and there's a general

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Speaker 1: interest in maintaining the integrity of the social system, whether

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Speaker 1: or not it personally directly benefits you. So anyway, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting about this stuff. In the

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Speaker 1: conclusion of the Millgram study here because it's finding that

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Speaker 1: a que is like a social system. It's got these

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Speaker 1: norms and roles, and the there is extremely strong internal

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Speaker 1: pressure to obey these norms. But the inherent physical and

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Speaker 1: social mechanics of the single file line sometimes work against

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Speaker 1: the line's ability to defend itself systematically. And then I

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Speaker 1: wanted to read one more thing that I thought was interesting.

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Speaker 1: For their their conclusion, they write, quote, what is the

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Speaker 1: main bonding mechanism of the queue? It resides in replicated segments.

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Speaker 1: The principal focus for each person in line is the

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Speaker 1: space between himself or herself and the person standing just

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Speaker 1: in front. This is the space the quere will defend

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Speaker 1: most vigorously. If the quere is to defend the line

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Speaker 1: at all, A willingness to object to intrusions quickly attenuates

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Speaker 1: with positions further down the line. The que will hold

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Speaker 1: together if each member defends the space immediately in front,

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Speaker 1: which the qure often experiences as a zone of special responsibility.

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Speaker 1: The queue is thus articulated through a series of overlapping zones,

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Speaker 1: each centering on the individual standing in line and extending

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Speaker 1: a few removes forward and a remove behind. The queue

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Speaker 1: is segmental in structure, and as often occurs in systems

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Speaker 1: of linear composition. Segmental structures are particularly likely to arise

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Speaker 1: in short lived systems formed through accretion of their constituent units,

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Speaker 1: as in the case of waiting lines. So a line

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Speaker 1: is both a coherent social system that has incentives for

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Speaker 1: defending its integrity from end to end, but in practice

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Speaker 1: it is modular in nature. It's built out of an

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Speaker 1: assembly of smaller social units with their own local responsibilities,

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Speaker 1: and that this is characteristic of many types of self

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Speaker 1: organizing structures that people come up with. When you don't

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Speaker 1: have a top down mandate for how something should be organized,

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Speaker 1: you you tend to get a kind of modular structure

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Speaker 1: like this with lots of little local rules of enforcement.

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Speaker 1: And it also makes me think about other ways that

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Speaker 1: social systems premised on a kind of holistic sense of

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Speaker 1: of coherence also rely on strong local modules. Like I

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Speaker 1: think about the the tendency of militaries to really put

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Speaker 1: emphasis on the relationship between each member and their direct

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Speaker 1: superior you know, kind of like the space right in

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Speaker 1: front of you in line, as opposed to being overly

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Speaker 1: concerned about what's going on too far or below your rank. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking about this. So I think that

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Speaker 1: the role of various units in a much larger force. Thankank, Thank.

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Speaker 1: Before we leave the subject of line cutting, I also

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about a study I came across that

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Speaker 1: concerns line cutting that I found positively heartwarming. Is again, no,

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Speaker 1: it is not. It's one that that starts off sounding

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Speaker 1: like it's going to be kind of grim and mean,

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Speaker 1: but actually is heartwarming in the end, or at least

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Speaker 1: a possible interpretation of it is. Uh So, the next

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Speaker 1: study I wanted to talk about is by Felix Oberholzer

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Speaker 1: G and it was published in Kick Close in I

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Speaker 1: think two thousand three, or perhaps republished in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six. But anyway, it's called a market for time

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Speaker 1: fairness and efficiency and waiting lines. And so this takes

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Speaker 1: an economic look at ed waiting in line and the

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Speaker 1: author here writes in the abstract quote in situations of

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Speaker 1: excess demand, many firms use waiting lists to allocate products

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Speaker 1: and services among their customers. The resulting allocation is likely

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Speaker 1: to be inefficient, creating opportunities for parado improving trades among

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Speaker 1: those who are waiting in line. So a note about parado.

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Speaker 1: So parado efficiency is a concept that you will sometimes

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Speaker 1: hear invoked by economists. Basically, parado means gains without compensating losses.

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Speaker 1: So a parado improvement is when you take some initial

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Speaker 1: situation and you change it so that at least one

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Speaker 1: person in it is better off and nobody is worse off.

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Speaker 1: So anywhere in any system that you can find opportunities

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Speaker 1: for parado improvements, that's a good thing. Basically it means

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Speaker 1: wins without compensating losses. So that would be for instance,

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Speaker 1: if there was a rule against wearing a hat in

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Speaker 1: the office, and nobody in the office had really thought

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Speaker 1: about this, but one person really to where I hat

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Speaker 1: in the office. You know, if you can change that

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Speaker 1: rule and it doesn't offend anybody, and that one person

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Speaker 1: gets to where a hat in the office, then they're

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Speaker 1: good to go. Like that is a parado improvement. Yes, yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Or you can often think about parado improvements in types

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Speaker 1: of trades of things, or even in in giving, even

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Speaker 1: in exchanges of goods, even if you're not being compensated.

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Speaker 1: One example, I was trying to think of an example.

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Speaker 1: Here's one I thought of all right. Let's say we're

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Speaker 1: both sitting in a waiting room, we're both bored, and

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Speaker 1: I pick up two books from the table beside me.

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Speaker 1: One is written in English, which I read, and the

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Speaker 1: other is written in Spanish, which I do not read.

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Speaker 1: And let's say you, the person sitting next to me,

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Speaker 1: you are also bored. You would also like some reading

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Speaker 1: material you have none, and you do read Spanish. It

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Speaker 1: would be a parado improvement for me to just hand

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Speaker 1: over the book that's in Spanish to you, right, because

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Speaker 1: you are getting something out of it, but it is

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Speaker 1: of no use whatsoever to me. It is a gain

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Speaker 1: for you at no loss to me. Yeah, that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: And they're also basically any good situation of economic barter

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Speaker 1: where where both parties are are fully satisfied with the

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Speaker 1: deal or those can be characterized by parado improvements as well,

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Speaker 1: you know the classic like I have more apples than

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Speaker 1: I can use, you have more milk than you can use.

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Speaker 1: We trade some with each other, we can both feel

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Speaker 1: like we're better off than we started. And so the

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Speaker 1: author here is trying to apply this parado improvement thing

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Speaker 1: to the queuing context. So they say, in the queuing context,

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Speaker 1: the trading of places is rare, and inefficiencies often persist

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Speaker 1: over time. So, for example, you might have a situation

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Speaker 1: where I'm really short on time, and it would be

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Speaker 1: very valuable to me to pay a fee to skip

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Speaker 1: to the head of the line, maybe to pay everybody

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Speaker 1: in line to skip ahead of them. And in some situations,

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Speaker 1: other people who are waiting in line, who are not

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Speaker 1: particularly in a rush, might prefer to take my money

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Speaker 1: and wait a little bit longer. And yet while there

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Speaker 1: are forms of this, I was thinking about how you

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Speaker 1: don't see this happening much in many like wild type

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Speaker 1: queuing scenarios, and when you do, it's usually not paying

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00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: the other people waiting in line. Instead, you'd probably like

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Speaker 1: pay the the service provider or the store rather than

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Speaker 1: the other people, so they're just waiting longer and getting

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Speaker 1: nothing in return. Yeah, Like at the airport, it's totally

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Speaker 1: understood that yes, some people paid extra so they get

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Speaker 1: to go on first, and some people may may take

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Speaker 1: some sort of like a flight credit in return for

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Speaker 1: changing their flights around that sort of thing. But so

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Speaker 1: this study wanted to look at what happens if you

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Speaker 1: directly offer incentives to the other people waiting too, people

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Speaker 1: waiting in line, So you offer to pay people if

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Speaker 1: you can cut in front of them. How do people

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Speaker 1: react to that? So to test people's reactions, the author

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Speaker 1: here tried it out with several volunteers. He staged experiments

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Speaker 1: in the following location. So it was a cafeteria at

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Speaker 1: the University of Pennsylvania, a food court in the vicinity

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Speaker 1: of the university, and Amtrak train station, and a Department

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Speaker 1: of Motor Vehicle service center in Philadelphia. And so the

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Speaker 1: experiment goes like this. You are standing in line, you

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Speaker 1: are close to the front of the line, and somebody

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Speaker 1: walks up to you and says, can I go in

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Speaker 1: front of you? And then from here you get one

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Speaker 1: of five different conditions. Either they simply ask you that

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Speaker 1: and they offer you nothing, or in the other four,

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Speaker 1: they hold out a varying sum of cash in their

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Speaker 1: hand and offer to pay it to you to let

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Speaker 1: them cut in front of you. So this would be

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Speaker 1: one dollar, three dollars, five dollars, and ten dollars. And

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Speaker 1: the author does note that the wait times in these

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Speaker 1: scenarios were generally low, averaging less than three minutes or so,

431
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: so it seems like the money should be a pretty

432
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 1: good trade. Like, you know, if somebody says, hey, I'll

433
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: give you ten dollars to wait an additional one to

434
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 1: two minutes or something, I mean, that's that seems like

435
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: a good deal. I mean, especially if you're waiting on

436
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 1: that that bagel sandwich like that, that will probably cover

437
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: the cost of the bagel sandwich, at least a large

438
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: part of it. So there are three principal findings here.

439
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 1: First of all, the compensation does have the expected effect.

440
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 1: People who were offered more money were more likely to

441
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: let someone cut in front of them, and the more

442
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: generous to offer, the more likely people were to accept it,

443
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: So ten dollars was the most likely to get you

444
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 1: a spot in the line. But second, here's the really

445
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: counterintuitive part. Most people in the experiment actually rejected the money.

446
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: So most of the people who let the experiment or

447
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: cut ahead of them said no, it's okay, you can

448
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: keep the money. As some took it, but the majority

449
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: would not take it. I mean, I guess I would

450
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 1: be at least heavily tempted not to take it, just

451
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: on just because it's weird, you know, like I was

452
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: talking earlier about, Like there's the there's the desire to

453
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: get to the front of the line in a reasonable

454
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: amount of time, to not have people cut in front

455
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 1: of you, but also to not have weird interactions with people.

456
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: And if somebody's offering you three to ten dollars to

457
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: get ahead of you in line, like it's gotten weird.

458
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: It's already weird. Yeah, I feel the same like I.

459
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: Once I read this result, I started to think, oh, yeah,

460
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: that that does seemed like how I would probably react.

461
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: I would probably be like, yeah, okay, you can go. No,

462
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: I don't need the money, it's okay. Uh. And the

463
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: interesting thing was that these two principles hold true at

464
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: the same time, so people the more people offered to pay,

465
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 1: the more likely people were to say, yeah, you can

466
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: get in front of me, even when the people wouldn't

467
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: take the money. So the increasing price made a difference

468
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: even though people weren't taking it. I wonder what the

469
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: study would have been like if they also included offers

470
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: of like someone coming up and saying, I will I

471
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: will give you this toad if you let me get

472
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: in front of you in line, you know, because it

473
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: would probably be the similar thing where if someone just

474
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: came up and asked from a place in line, I

475
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: might say, I'm sorry, and I think you should get

476
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: to the back and just wait. Maybe I would say that,

477
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: and I don't know, but if someone came up and

478
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: they were offering me the toad, I would not take

479
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: the toad for various reasons. But but also I might

480
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: just say, yeah, go ahead, Like, if you're willing to

481
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: put yourself out there and offer me a live toad

482
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: for this place in line, then I think you should

483
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: have it because you want it more than I think.

484
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: That's a reasonable interpretation. So I just want to read

485
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: a couple of passages from overholdzer g here about how

486
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: how to read what happened in the study uh. The

487
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: author writes, quote prices play an unusual role in these exchanges.

488
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: In economic theory, prices are indicators of scarcity, and they

489
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: compensate producers for the cost of making desired products available

490
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: and then a little bit later in the market for

491
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: time studied in this paper, However, prices do not serve

492
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: a compensating function, possibly because individuals view it as unfair

493
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: to exploit a situation of excess demand. In other words,

494
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 1: people have resistance to gouging or to exploiting a situation

495
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: where somebody appears to really need something and then picking

496
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: up at the same time. Most individuals act as if

497
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: they were compensated, accepting price signals as indicators of scarcity

498
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: and trading time when the welfare gains for doing so

499
00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: appear particularly large. Um. So, so this is an interesting contradiction. Again,

500
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: Why does the money make a difference even if people

501
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: feel social pressure not to exploit the demand for time? Essentially,

502
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: if people feel a moral compunction not to que gouge.

503
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: And I think a reasonable interpretation here one that's been

504
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: offered is that maybe the amount of money is a

505
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: signal of the intruder or the desire of the or

506
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: the potential intruders desperation. The fact that they're offering to

507
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: pay more money is a sign that they really need

508
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: to get through whatever this is more quickly. Yeah. I

509
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: like to come back to our bathroom example. If someone

510
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: comes up to you, it's like, I will give you

511
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars if you will let me go into

512
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: this bathroom stall ahead of you. You know that it

513
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: sounds like they really need to go. Yeah, yeah, so

514
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 1: I think this is interesting. What could have been just

515
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: to study about people's monetary self interest and desire for

516
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: cash actually might be a demonstration of something else. It

517
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: could be pointing to a kind of widespread jen a

518
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: role sensitivity to other people who appear to be in

519
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: some kind of stress or crisis. Yeah, so I don't

520
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: know that kind of that kind of put the bellows

521
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 1: in the heart furnace for me. But anyway, I want

522
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: to see all kinds of follow ups on this, going

523
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: with your idea offering things other than money, going up

524
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: to people near the front of the line at the

525
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: DMV and saying, hey, can I cut in front of

526
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: you if I give you a live chicken. I've got

527
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: one other thing though that that was hovering in my

528
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: mind thinking about this, which is the role of uh,

529
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: the other people in line. So if you're letting somebody

530
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: cut in front of you, you're also letting that person

531
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: cut in front of everybody behind you, right, And so

532
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: I would feel a kind of pressure about that that

533
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: maybe just wouldn't be like oh, I want to get

534
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: out of here faster, but also a social pressure from

535
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: the rest of the line thinking like oh, you know,

536
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: I don't want them to judge me. Yeah, yeah, like

537
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: they're not offering me a toad or me a dollar

538
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: I had. I was standing in a line several weeks ago,

539
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: and it was it was a hot day, and we

540
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: were waiting in line for um, like a a shave ice,

541
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: and it I had this kind of insane thought that

542
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: I was probably caused by the heat, where I was like,

543
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: why aren't we all standing in line to each get

544
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: a shave ice. Why don't we just all put together

545
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: a single order and have one person place the order

546
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: for all the shave ice that we need? Um? And

547
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: then I realized that that was that was ludicrous. Uh yeah,

548
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: and also underlines again why we have the line to

549
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: begin with. Even though it's it's it can be annoying.

550
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: It can be hot in the line. Uh and it

551
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: can you can have delusional thoughts as the sun beats

552
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: into your scalp. But at the same time, it's better

553
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: than trying things like that. I thought you were gonna say,

554
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: why don't we all band together, knock over the shave

555
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: ice stand and just grab the ice for ourselves and run.

556
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: That's like the next level of breaking it down, right,

557
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, We're all going to just place a

558
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: mass order together and just totally overwhelm this place, then

559
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: why not just physically overwhelm it and just just everything

560
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: just collapses into chaos and nobody really gets a shave ice.

561
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: Maybe some people like just get a handful of syrup

562
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: or some plain ice, that sort of thing. Oh that's right,

563
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: I guess, because you can't abscond with the labor of

564
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: the shave ice maker, right right. It's not like they

565
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: have them just all pre made back there right now.

566
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: One interesting aspect of waiting in line is, of course,

567
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: how the experience plays with the relativity of time. And

568
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: I don't think we have to explain the experience of

569
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: time as a relative thing all that much. I mean,

570
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: the basic is always time flies when you're having fun,

571
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: and the reverse of that is that time can almost

572
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: stand still when you're not having fun. Standing in line

573
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: is often brought up as an example of this. Sure though,

574
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: it is interesting to how meditative activities can sometimes feel

575
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: like either of these examples. You know, you can either

576
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 1: sort of interesttate where you don't realize that time is fasting,

577
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: is passing as fast as it is even if things

578
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: not something you would define as fun, and other times

579
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: attempting to meditate or engage in some sort of meditative

580
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: activity can really feel like it's it's bringing the nowness

581
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: down to a crawl. You know. Another important distinction here

582
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: is the difference between how long time feels in the

583
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: moment versus how long it feels in retrospect, right, which

584
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: is something we've talked about before. I assume you're mainly

585
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: emphasizing how it feels in the moment. Yeah, So I

586
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: wanted to look at how standing in line affects the

587
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: individual's perception of the flow of time. So I looked

588
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: at the paper time Flow How Consumption Practices Shape consumers

589
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:40,719
Speaker 1: temporal Experiences by Nicholas Warman and Junas Roca, published two

590
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen in the Journal of Consumer Research. Time flow

591
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: is that one of the sequels to time cop Uh No,

592
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: it could be though, right. Um. Anyway, the researchers wanted

593
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: to see how different factors impacted this perception of time. Now,

594
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: instead of studying people waiting in line for a bagel sandwich,

595
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: they looked at waiting in line to play paintball and

596
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: in to engage in extreme free skiing. Uh. These are

597
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: both activities. They write the detail a lot of waiting

598
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: followed by intense bursts of activity. Oh, that's interesting. So

599
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: they're they're not just waiting to like get a product

600
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: or a service, They're waiting for some kind of extremely

601
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: stimulating experience. Right, So you know this this is certainly

602
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: a particular look at waiting that you know, may not

603
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: seem as relatable to some of the other examples we've

604
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: talked about. But but I still think it's very interesting

605
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: because they ultimately identified five elements that they think need

606
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: to be in place for consumers to experience a balanced

607
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: flow of time. So I'm just gonna roll through them

608
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: here and just summarize them first, bodily routines and skills,

609
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: and so they compare this to yoga and quote one

610
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: of the most gripping temporal experiences for example, but follows

611
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: us when we have to hold our breath. So this

612
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: basically comes down to what is the body doing while

613
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: it's waiting uh? Next plans and moods? So is the

614
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: person waiting uh in line or otherwise fixed on a

615
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: particular game plan, of course or course of action? What

616
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: happens when you get to the front. And I found

617
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: this very interesting thinking again about waiting in line for

618
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: the like the the t s A for air airline security,

619
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: because when I'm at least my experience is when I'm

620
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: waiting in line, I'm not just gazing off into the

621
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: middle distance anticipating finally getting done with this. I'm thinking

622
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: about that crunch point towards the front. Am I going

623
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: to have both my passport and my son's out in time?

624
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: Am I going to have them facing the right way?

625
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: Am I going to have the things that need to

626
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: go separately from my body through the check or those arranged?

627
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: I like all this stuff rushing through my head, and

628
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: I'm probably freaking out a little bit about it because

629
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: I'm nervous about getting in trouble with the t s

630
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: A agent because I don't have the right thing lined up.

631
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: So I feel like that's a situation where, especially towards

632
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: I get closer to the front of the line, line UH,

633
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: time is always feels like it's moving too fast rather

634
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: than too slow for me. Yeah, they call these the

635
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: teleo effective structures. Yes, the UH And this is for

636
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: a much more basic question. This just makes me wonder

637
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: how waiting in line is different when you're waiting in

638
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: line for something you want to do versus something that

639
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: you don't want to do but have to do. Yes, okay.

640
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: The next the third thing they identified rules and regulations

641
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 1: the effects of formalized temporal framing of a practice. So

642
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: that's just like how long will this take? How long

643
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: is it is it expected to take? Um? You know,

644
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: how much of the weight is just factored into the experience?

645
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: And then is your current weight longer or shorter than

646
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: what that should be? Next up material set up technology.

647
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: So this comes down to the gear the setting. UM. Like,

648
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: for instance, if you're dealing with something like free skiing,

649
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: it's you know, getting your skis ready lined up. If

650
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: it's paintball, it's like checking your equipment to make sure

651
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: you're ready to blast paintballs. UM. Ultimately, is the gear

652
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: in the setting are they slowing you down? Or is

653
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: it speeding things up? Um? So it's not all that

654
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: relatable to most standing in line scenarios, I imagine, but

655
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: it's interesting and it does also remind me again of

656
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: the t s a example, do I have all my

657
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: stuff prepared? The and then the next area is cultural

658
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: understanding quote formed by the discourses, cultural tropes, or value

659
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: systems that play a role in the social organization of

660
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: practices unquote. So this would be things like team spirit

661
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: or a concern for safety on the part of participants.

662
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: So are you waiting in line like a bunch of

663
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: gloom individuals who just want your your chance to shoot paintballs?

664
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: Or are you like a team you know, are you

665
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: like the the our heroes in Big Trouble in Little

666
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: China when they're waiting in that elevator you know, yea,

667
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: they're feeling good. It's a bonding experience. They're about to

668
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: go down and you know, and fight the good fight.

669
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: Are you like that? Or you know, is a situation

670
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 1: where like, yeah, we're waiting in line, but it's because

671
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: they're doing safety checks up the up the line and

672
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: making sure that everything is good to go, Like what

673
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: is the the cultural understanding of the line you're in?

674
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: So the researchers here they argue that the misalignment of

675
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: these elements is what can cause experiences of drag or

676
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: rush uh, and that it falls to the designers and

677
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: overseers of such waiting experiences to take these different factors

678
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,919
Speaker 1: into account um, which you know, again makes me think

679
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 1: of like what kind of messaging are you putting forth

680
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: when people are waiting in line, say at the airport,

681
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 1: you know, is there is there messaging about how this

682
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: is about safety and this is about protecting you. Um uh,

683
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: stuff of that nature. Um or is that kind of

684
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: messaging absent? It is interesting to think about the the

685
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: temporal distortions going in both directions, because almost all of

686
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: the stuff I've read about about perception of time in

687
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: in waiting in queues is is about people feeling like

688
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: they're waiting too long. But yeah, it's interesting you bring

689
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 1: up the idea of like airports and like sort of

690
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: like being rushed through at certain points of a line. Yeah, yeah,

691
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, I'm not ready, I don't feel ready.

692
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: I don't really want it to be my turn yet.

693
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: Though I have encountered that too when ordering food. If

694
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: you're if you're way towards the front of the line,

695
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: of the line isn't that short, and you don't know

696
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: what you want yet, then perhaps you, like me, you

697
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: don't want to be that person who's just you know,

698
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: standing and himming and hying and trying to figure out

699
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: what they want while other people are frustrated behind you.

700
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to be inclined to to say, hey, I'm

701
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: still figuring it out. Why don't you go ahead of me? Now,

702
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: Another thing about the perception of time when waiting that

703
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 1: I've read, at least as a generalization and a number

704
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: of articles about this is that, Um, one thing that

705
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: is particularly painful is not understanding what's going on in

706
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: a line, Like when there's uncertainty, you don't know why

707
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: you're waiting, or you don't know how long you're going

708
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: to be waiting. That uncertainty can itself be a major

709
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: problem for people waiting for things. Yes, yeah, yeah, Like

710
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 1: which which line am I in? Is this the line

711
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: for the beer or the line for the bracelet for

712
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: the beer? Um? What boarding group did they announce? Am

713
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: I hanging out with the right people? Am I in

714
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: the line to board with group five? Or am I

715
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: standing with the people who are waiting for five to

716
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: finish so that six can go? Uh? Like, all of

717
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: this can just breed unending frustration. Now, this least to

718
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: the next thing I wanted to talk about, And that's

719
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 1: so waiting and uncertainty. Um, because there's there's another aspect

720
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: of waiting, not so much waiting in line, but waiting

721
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: in general. Uh, you know, we're not always waiting on

722
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: bagel sandwiches or the chance to blast strangers with paintballs.

723
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: Sometimes we're waiting on potentially bad news, a wash and uncertainty,

724
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: and it can be an extremely grading experience. UM. Someone

725
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: argue that it can be as difficult as actually receiving

726
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: the news, UM, which which is interesting and you know,

727
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be life and death. I mean,

728
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: obviously when you're talking about um matters of health and wellness,

729
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: this can be tough. But it can also be tough

730
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: with things like grades uh, um, you know, finding out

731
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: what's wrong with your automobile. I experienced that in the

732
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: last twenty four hours, where it's like I was feeling

733
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 1: like this just totally unnecessary level of bodily stress over

734
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: not knowing why my airbag light was on, you know,

735
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: uh so but so so just waiting on on hearing

736
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: the actor hearing what's wrong with something. Even that is

737
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: again has nothing to do with your your your ultimate

738
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: health and happiness. It can it can have this, uh,

739
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: this kind of semi debilitating effect on you. So I

740
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: wanted to look at a few different studies dealing at

741
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: least in part with this experience, and I think all

742
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 1: of them involved, you see riverside worry and waiting expert

743
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: Kate Sweeney who has explored this quite a bit and

744
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: has has pointed out that a lot of this comes

745
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: down to repetitive rumination over the past and repetitive worry

746
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: about the future. Uh. You know, for for the airport example,

747
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 1: I imagine it would equate to did I pack everything

748
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: right and remember to take out that pocket knife? And

749
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: will the T S A agent be mean to me

750
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: when I get to the front of the line and

751
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: I don't have my um, you know, my passport facing

752
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: the right direction. That sort of thing, and UM while

753
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: waiting in line or otherwise can always be dull when

754
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: it is unpleasant. Uh. These are often the factors involved.

755
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: And I think you could probably expand I mean that

756
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: that kind of flows into a lot of things we've

757
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 1: talked about regarding UM, you know, the default mode network

758
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 1: in the past, thinking about the past and the present,

759
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: and how we can turn you know, things like pain

760
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: into into into something like suffering. Sure, so what do

761
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 1: we end up doing? Well, we engage in various coping

762
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: activities to alleviate the feeling UM such as and these

763
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: are the ones that that Sweeney highlights distraction. Okay, this

764
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: is the big one. We've already touched on this before.

765
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: You know, reaching for your phone, uh, you know, looking

766
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: at your your your email or your social media, or

767
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: playing a game checking the news distraction. Distraction is generally

768
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: regarded to be a good way to cope with waiting. Uh,

769
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: take your mind off of things, do something else, uh,

770
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: you know, throw yourself at your work, busy yourself. Right,

771
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: And while this seems to be the case. According according

772
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: to Sweeney, along with Rankin and Walsh, co authors of

773
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: the twenty eight team paper published in Personality and Social

774
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: set in this and Social psycho Psychology bulletin a Better

775
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 1: Distraction um, distractions, even good ones, do not always work,

776
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: and they point to several studies showing people who reported

777
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: exerting more effort to distract themselves during a weight displaying

778
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: higher levels of worry. So the efforts to distract oneself

779
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: also seem to predict poor self reported health and greater

780
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: sleep disruption. So the take home here is distraction can work,

781
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: but it's not not a silver bullet, and it can

782
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: certainly backfire many of these cases. Perhaps to state the obvious,

783
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 1: I guess that would probably depend highly on on what

784
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: kind of distraction you're seeking, right, right, Some are inherently

785
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: better than others. Yeah, and and and she gets into

786
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: some of that in a bit here. Um. Another thing

787
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: they point to is flow states. So we've talked about

788
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: this before in the show. Is a general means of

789
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: compating the the ruinous powers of the default mode network. However,

790
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 1: they argue that a flow state requires several conditions, quote,

791
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: the presence of perceived challenges, the opportunities for action that

792
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: stretch without over extending existing skills, and clear uh proximal goals,

793
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: coupled with immediate feedback on one's progress. Flow states are

794
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: really interesting in this regard. And if you're not familiar

795
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: with the concept, you can think about it as doing

796
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: something that is that is challenging enough that it's not boring,

797
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: but easy enough that you are continuously successful at it.

798
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: Uh And so it's like, you know that that's sort

799
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: of like a video game that is just at the

800
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: perfect level of difficulty that it's just hard enough that

801
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: you're always on the edge of failing, but you keep succeeding.

802
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: And the weird thing is it can be ephemeral, especially

803
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: if you're going after it, right, because trying to achieve

804
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: a flow state can be frustrating. And then once you're

805
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: in the flow state, you're probably not reflecting on the

806
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: fact that you're in a flow state. Yeah, being in

807
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: a flow state is inherently non reflective. You're just sort

808
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: of in the moment. So the authors here they argue

809
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: that the flow state seems to be the best candidate

810
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: to combat waiting, worry, and uncertainty related distresses. They conducted

811
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: a study using a hundred and fifty law students and

812
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: found that mindfulness meditation served to postpone the phenomenon of bracing.

813
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: This is when you prepare for the worst, which can

814
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: be useful, more useful than optimism, especially like sort of

815
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: blind optimism, easy, easy, even, but not, they write, if

816
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: it occurs too early in the process. Um, you know,

817
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: it's one thing to prepare yourself for the worst case

818
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: scenario towards the end, But if you're preparing yourself for

819
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: the worst case scenario for the entire run of whatever

820
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: the exercise might be, Uh, you know that that can

821
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: be a miser inducing experience, right, And some people have

822
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: the tendency to over prepare for the worst by doing

823
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: what we might call rumination, you know, obsessing with the

824
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: worst possible outcomes things could take and just going through

825
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 1: per mutations of them over and over again in your brain,

826
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: which I guess is only really useful and to the

827
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: extent that it actually does help you prepare. Most of

828
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: the time people would go beyond the point where it's

829
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: helping them prepare, and it's just making them further more

830
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: and more miserable. Yeah, a lot of times it can

831
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: essentially become a kind of fantasizing about doom and you know,

832
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: preparing a script for a situation that that ultimately does

833
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: not occur anyway. In this study, they found that mindfulness

834
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 1: meditation worked even when only practice fifteen minutes once a week,

835
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: though they acknowledge that meditation is not for everyone and

836
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: does not necessarily come easy. Um And I feel like

837
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: this is something I've seen stressed in some other writings

838
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: recently talking about how you know. So, I feel like

839
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: scientific studies are one thing, but when more generally meditation

840
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: and meditative practices are recommended, sometimes this is not taken

841
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: into account or it's not um stressed enough to the

842
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: individual that achieving this this, uh, this this state of

843
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: mind might be difficult and might even be disruptive in

844
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: the short term. You know, well, sure, even if you

845
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: get a collection of good scientific studies finding that on

846
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: average mindfulness meditation does give you some kind of positive

847
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: psychological outcome, those are those results are still just on average.

848
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you're gonna have whatever chunk of the study

849
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: cohort that it didn't actually do that for Yeah, and

850
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: not if your brain is the same. Not every emotional

851
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: um array is the same, so uh, definitely worth taking

852
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: into account. Now. Another Sweeney research paper, this one from nineteen,

853
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: looked at another tactic to overcome the worries of waiting uh,

854
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 1: inducing a feeling of awe or a state of wonder

855
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 1: and this was this was interesting as well. So they

856
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: point out that meditation can help. Flow states can help,

857
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: but again, these may simply not be easily achievable for everyone.

858
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: Um And this this makes sense, right, if you're like

859
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: super stressed out over something and you're anticipating some bad news,

860
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: It's it's one thing to think I should do some meditation,

861
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: I should do some yoga, but it's it's another thing

862
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: to actually do that. Sometimes it's just not feasible, where

863
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: it's just not going to happen because you know, nobody's

864
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: gonna step in and make you do it, or you

865
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: just don't. You just don't have you in in you

866
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: like every everybody struggles different uh, etcetera. Uh. But this

867
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: is where they bring up the idea of of the

868
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: awe that comes with a deeply moving piece of music

869
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: or a work of film, which again is going to

870
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 1: be very um subjective. Uh. But uh, I want to

871
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: get into the details of the study because it's quite interesting.

872
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: So seven twenty nine participants took a fake intelligence test um,

873
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: so basically, you know, it's like an i Q test um,

874
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: and then they're they're they're all gonna the ideas that

875
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: people will have this anxiety over what the results will be.

876
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: Oh well, let's say I'm smart. Let's say I'm not smart. Uh,

877
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: I'm I'm nervous. So while waiting on these results, the

878
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 1: participants watched one of three videos. Video one, an awe

879
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 1: induction video of a sunrise with stirring music. Sounds good.

880
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: Number two, a positive control video of cute animals, also

881
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: sounds good. But but again, when's the last time that

882
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: a cute animal video actually gave you a sense of awe,

883
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,959
Speaker 1: I mean the sense of awe, but not a sense

884
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: of awe. And then finally number three, video number three,

885
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: a neutral video about how padlocks are made. Speak for yourself.

886
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 1: Is that neutral? Uh? In this experiment it's neutral, though

887
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: I could again it is kind of subjective, and I

888
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: know that it could be. I know that in certain

889
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 1: states of mind, um, various videos and documentaries about the

890
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: mass production of things like padlocks can certainly have that

891
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: kind of effect on people. Definitely true. So when he

892
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: found that people watching the awe video the Sunrise the

893
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: Stirring music experienced significantly greater positive emotion and less anxiety

894
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: during the period waiting, so Sweeney brings up watching an

895
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: episode of Planet Earth as a potential way to go

896
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: about this. Though my mind instantly went to two thousand

897
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 1: and one of Space Odyssey, especially the first uh what

898
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: the first half hour, so where you get the dawn

899
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: of man, plus the introduction to the space station and

900
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: space travel and so forth. Well, I'd be right there

901
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: with you, except I'd say, for for people who aren't

902
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: exactly the kind of weirdo we are, maybe maybe a

903
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: nature documentary might be more generally effective. I don't know, Yeah, yeah.

904
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 1: I mean, again, it's going to be subjective. What gives

905
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: you a sense of all I think it's worth Again,

906
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, this is highly subjective. This is just one study,

907
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,959
Speaker 1: but it's it's a good enough case that I feel

908
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 1: like it wouldn't be the worst advice in the world

909
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: for for people to think, Okay, what is my awe video?

910
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: What is the thing that I can turn to if

911
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: if I could do with some relief whilst waiting on

912
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: some you know, potentially bad news, or just for the

913
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 1: results from some stressful situation. I mean, what is all? All?

914
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: I think is uh generally understood to be sort of

915
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: the recognition of something grander than oneself, you know, and

916
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: that that could be a million different things. I mean,

917
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: for some people that's like the religious thing about like

918
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: God or the spirit of the cosmos beyond other For

919
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: other people that could just be something about the biosphere

920
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: or the universe or the earth. Um. You know, it's

921
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: it's just a recognition of some broader context or greater power.

922
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: And so when you think about those kinds of things,

923
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: it tends, I think, maybe to make one's own problems

924
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: or worries feel smaller. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like,

925
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: what is your monolith? Your MONOLITHU might just be watching

926
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: the monolith seen from two thousand and one. It might

927
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: be watching like an incredible athletic performance, you know, like

928
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: that can that can be inspiring as well, Like I

929
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: it is legitimately inspiring to see the athletic feats that

930
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: some people were capable of of producing. You know, sure,

931
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: now I want to look at it. Just briefly mentioned

932
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: one more Sweeney study, mainly because it it relates to

933
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: something we've covered on the show in the past. Uh.

934
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: Sweeney inen looked at the effects of our old friend Tetris.

935
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 1: Tetris effect speaking of flow states, yeah yeah, yeah, go

936
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: go listen to our episodes on Tetris back in the

937
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: Vault for an overview of how this would work. But

938
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: Sweeney found that Tetris could provide a quote state of

939
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: perfect detachment, a shortcut to flow. That's interesting. It lines

940
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: up with some of the things we talked about in

941
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 1: that episode that Tetris is an almost perfect engine for

942
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: creating that sort of you know knife's edge of of

943
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: just challenging enough. You know. It's funny. We went three

944
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: whole episodes about queuing and waiting on things, and and

945
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: yet I feel like we've just barely waded into the

946
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: shallows of this. There's like, there's so much stuff on

947
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: the subject. We could do a whole podcast, I think

948
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: about a queuing and waiting for things. I don't think

949
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: we even mentioned Tom Petty at all. Did weigh Tom Petty.

950
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: That's the hardest part. Yeah, even though that song came

951
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: up in numerous study introductions that I came across. Yeah, well,

952
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: I well, I can't recall of and if it was

953
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: if they were the papers or the sometimes the the

954
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: articles about the studies. But I saw Tom Petty mentioned

955
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: a couple of times. Do you have a favorite Tom

956
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 1: Petty song? Um? I really like Won't Back Down. That's

957
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: a great one. That's a great one. That one, That

958
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: one kind of builds you up, you know, that one's

959
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, I can do it. But yeah, Tom

960
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 1: Petty in general, Tom Petty is usually a good listen.

961
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of I like you wreck Me.

962
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: That's a great one. Yeah he did one. Yeah he didn't. Well,

963
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure he did more than one duet, But what's

964
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 1: the big duet? I'm trying to remember do it? Yeah,

965
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: I don't remember a duet. Oh, Stevie Nicks, stop dragging

966
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: my heart around. That's a great Oh yeah of course,

967
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 1: so yeah, that is a good one. Can't go wrong.

968
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: Not liking to Petty would be like not liking bread,

969
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: just like somebody says that you're like, what, all right, Well,

970
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna go and close it out there. But we'd

971
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,760
Speaker 1: love to hear from everybody, uh about these episodes on waiting?

972
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: How do they relate to your experiences? Um? If you

973
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: were to stockpile like a an AWE DVD or an

974
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: AWE video file, uh for hard times, what would that be?

975
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,720
Speaker 1: I'm generally curious to know what is your two thousand

976
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: and one of Space Odyssey. In the meantime, if you

977
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: would like to listen to other episodes of Stuff to

978
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: Blow your Mind, you can head right over to the

979
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed, where you will

980
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: find all of our episodes. You'll find new episodes of

981
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Artifact

982
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, Listener Mail on Monday. On Friday's we do

983
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: a little weird how cinema. That's our time to just

984
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: talk about a weird and interesting film for a little

985
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: bit and then on the weekends we do or we

986
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 1: run um and then on Sunday's usually nothing. Sometimes there's

987
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: a promo for another show on Sunday. I don't know,

988
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: it just depends how it goes. Huge things as a

989
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: ways to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If

990
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: you would like to get in touch with us with

991
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest topic

992
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: for the future, or just to say hello, you can

993
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: email us at contact at stuff to blow your Mind

994
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of

995
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,

996
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

997
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: you listening to your favorite shows.