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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites, the podcast, part of the Volume

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Speaker 1: Podcast Network. I I'm Chad Moman of the Action Network.

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Speaker 1: This week, at last, we are back together again. Let's

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Speaker 1: welcome in my co host Michael Bandon. Michael Padre might

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Speaker 1: be a f professional better sign in Hunter, And oh

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Speaker 1: so I am in, Chad.

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Speaker 2: How are we doing?

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Speaker 1: Listen? I'm so excited to see your face. Even though

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Speaker 1: we chatted a little bit while you were in England

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Speaker 1: and I was in Chicago for my father's eightieth birthday,

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Speaker 1: there's so many stories to tell about that. I missed you, buddy.

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Speaker 1: I miss seeing your face, hearing your voice. How are

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Speaker 1: you good?

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Speaker 2: No, it's good, good little break, you know, nice hearing

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Speaker 2: from fans that missed me as well. It's nice to

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Speaker 2: know I'm loved and people still hate Chad, so that's

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Speaker 2: always a good feeling.

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Speaker 1: But nobody, I got no messages. Did anyone miss me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, they missed the show. And just like

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Speaker 2: everyone else, a lot going on, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: excited for football obviously, but anytime me and Chack can

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Speaker 2: get a little break, I think we're excited for it

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Speaker 2: because obviously we spent a lot of time together so

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Speaker 2: it's nice to miss you as well, Chad. So it

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Speaker 2: was a welcome break and yeah, I sent you pictures. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: went to England Sea family got to go up to

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Speaker 2: Scotland with my mom and dad, which was a really

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Speaker 2: cool experience. My thought came over to Edinburgh and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm not the biggest golf fan or whiskey fan, but

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Speaker 2: it's intoxicating. Once you get to Scotland you experience it

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Speaker 2: like going to Saint Andrew's. You can walk the course

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Speaker 2: on Sundays, it's open to the public, a pretty surreal,

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Speaker 2: pretty surreal you can just walk around on eighteen the

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Speaker 2: bagpipes are playing in the background. It was just a

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Speaker 2: really cool, really cool, what you know, thing to see.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, Scotland. The joke if you're from England is

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Speaker 2: there's not much up there, and I guess that's true

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Speaker 2: to British people, but to someone from America it's it's

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Speaker 2: really beautiful and unique. Play Scotland. So if I had

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Speaker 2: the money and the time, I would retire and just

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Speaker 2: drink my way and play golf across Scotland. It's that

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Speaker 2: it's that type of country. So yeah, I really enjoyed

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Speaker 2: my time away time away in Scotland.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a huge drinker, as you know, but when

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Speaker 1: I do drink, there are two things I'll drink. One

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Speaker 1: a Repisodo tequila. Two lag of Ulin Scotch, the pediest,

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Speaker 1: most Scottish Scotch I can get. That's what I want.

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Speaker 1: It's fantastic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and again it's it's all over right. I I

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Speaker 2: try to get at when I first got think that

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Speaker 2: I tried to get out when I first landed, and

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Speaker 2: I literally burned myself off for the rest of the trip.

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Speaker 2: Like I got so hungover I didn't want to drink

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Speaker 2: again for about two three days. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: how it goes, especially you get old. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: know I'm old, but in my mind, you know, everyone

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Speaker 2: still feels young at heart. Hangovers hit like a motherfucker

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Speaker 2: in your mid thirties. It really is. You drink hard

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Speaker 2: liquor like that, it really hits. But yeah, there was

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Speaker 2: a couple of times, like we went to a pub

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Speaker 2: that was from the seventeen hundreds, like it was built

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Speaker 2: before America was America, and like you just to them,

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Speaker 2: that's that's that's pretty old, but not that old. So

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Speaker 2: when you're in history like that where it's just funny

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Speaker 2: coming from America. Yeah, I'm right there with you, brother.

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Speaker 2: It's it's just a vibe there, like if you're going

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Speaker 2: to drink anything, right, Scotch, whiskey, bourban, all of it.

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Speaker 2: They're drinking it and I really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: You just say, hungover and feeling it. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: I live in a house with an eighteen year old

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Speaker 1: who graduated high school a month ago and has an

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Speaker 1: incredible group of friends and a great girlfriend and is

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Speaker 1: going to college in the fall. So and is like

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Speaker 1: working a fun summer job running the fryer at the

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Speaker 1: local pool club with all of his buddies, and every

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Speaker 1: day is just comedy and fun. So the other night,

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Speaker 1: my wife and I one forty five in the morning,

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Speaker 1: hear what sounds like somebody killing an animal in my

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Speaker 1: son's bathroom.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, he had one of those nice justn.

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Speaker 1: And and my my wife. This is how we handle

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Speaker 1: it differently. My wife is worried, she's up. She when

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Speaker 1: he is in bed trying to sleep, She's leaving him

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Speaker 1: gatorade by his bed. I'm not even moving, I'm not

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Speaker 1: even thinking. I'm like, you do it once, you do it. Twice.

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Speaker 1: You learn your limits. It's good practice for college. You

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Speaker 1: figure out what you can do. Like, he's not the

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Speaker 1: first person that this has happened to. He's not the

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Speaker 1: last person this will happen to. I see him the

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Speaker 1: next day and he's just like, it's just the spins.

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Speaker 1: It's just the spins when you're lying there. I felt

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Speaker 1: so bad for him, but I was proud of him

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Speaker 1: because he got up and he went to the club,

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Speaker 1: the pool club, and he worked a fryer, and he

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Speaker 1: was back there in that heat, and it is it

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Speaker 1: is no freaking joke. And by the way, he did this.

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Speaker 1: On the night of July fourth, I had been got

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Speaker 1: up at six am, took the train from Hertford to

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Speaker 1: the city and then the subway from Penn Station to

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Speaker 1: Coney Island, the last stop on the subway line. Because

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Speaker 1: I went to the Nathan's hot Dog Eating Contest. Because

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm writing this book and one of the

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Speaker 1: people that I'm profiling in the book, who was a

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Speaker 1: huge professional better one of the best NFL prop betters

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Speaker 1: in the world, he also loves to bet the hot

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Speaker 1: Dog contest. So I wanted to be with him when

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Speaker 1: he's betting the hot dog contest, and so I went

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Speaker 1: out there. I got there at you know, ten thirty

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Speaker 1: in the morning, just as Mickey Suda was about to start.

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Speaker 1: She won her competition, but she went way under created

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Speaker 1: a little bit of havoc, a little bit of chaos

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Speaker 1: for the way my guy was betting and how he

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Speaker 1: was thinking what that portended for the male competition. But dude,

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Speaker 1: it was a freaking It was a freaking blast to

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Speaker 1: go to that thing and be with someone who's really

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Speaker 1: thinking about it from betting opportunity. And what was interesting

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Speaker 1: is to me, like we all laugh about it and

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Speaker 1: you say the Nathan's hot dog eating contest, and it

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Speaker 1: just makes you smile. But he looked it is such

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Speaker 1: a pure handicapping exercise. It's not something you can model.

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Speaker 1: It's only something that you can figure out through research, instinct,

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Speaker 1: study history, trying to find interesting patterns. Like he looked

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Speaker 1: at it more as a pure handicapping experience as anything else.

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Speaker 1: To me, I love that. I just thought that was

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Speaker 1: a total blast to experience that and have that unique

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Speaker 1: of a perspective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, incredibly sharp contest. Obviously everyone knows the hot dog

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Speaker 2: buns a big thing we all bet on hot dog

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Speaker 2: everything like that. I mean me and you talk a

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Speaker 2: little bit about how much they care about the buns

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Speaker 2: of the hot dogs. What was it? Chestnuts seventy one

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Speaker 2: and a half, open at sixty nine and a half,

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Speaker 2: landed on seventy and a half. So yeah, it's one

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Speaker 2: of the more professional focused things in the summer, and

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Speaker 2: obviously fine edges. But I've had obviously, you know, that's

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Speaker 2: all my bucklest I want to go to it. I

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Speaker 2: just had it insane forty eight hours of flying red

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Speaker 2: eye to Vegas, flew back last night, just meeting with people,

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Speaker 2: just so much going on. When I got back from England,

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Speaker 2: it was like all the shit really hit the fan.

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Speaker 2: I got back basically July first, and I was playing

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Speaker 2: on going out there. I think Chad I didn't really

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Speaker 2: talked about the show a little bit, but I was

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Speaker 2: gonna enter the World Chairs of Poker.

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Speaker 1: Have we talked about this, Yeah, And.

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Speaker 2: It was just gonna be if I was running hot

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Speaker 2: and i'd been playing really good. I I really started

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Speaker 2: training hard in March, and I really was running hot

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Speaker 2: in probably till the end of April early May, and

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Speaker 2: then I went very cold. I just was not not

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Speaker 2: reading well before I went away, and I was hoping

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Speaker 2: when I came back, maybe if I was on the

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Speaker 2: right mind, I was going to go there, play small

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Speaker 2: a couple of tournaments, and then if I did well,

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Speaker 2: I was just gonna stay and do a couple of

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Speaker 2: shows from there and try to obviously make the money.

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Speaker 2: But I got there, there's just too much going on

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Speaker 2: me Chad, I obviously going about to dive into it.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, just a world win. I'm hoping next

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Speaker 2: year I can do what She's a poker, So I know.

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Speaker 2: I talked a couple of fans who went out there.

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Speaker 2: I mean obviously met up with a couple of people

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Speaker 2: when I was there. Always always down to get a

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Speaker 2: drink with different fans that reach out. But yeah, when

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Speaker 2: I was there watching the World Series, a ton of

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Speaker 2: regret that I didn't enter it, just because how much

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Speaker 2: Funnel looks. But like we're about to dive into there's

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Speaker 2: just so much shit going on in the sports betting on.

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Speaker 2: What I just really was my mind is the mind's

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Speaker 2: not right to be doing that kind of stuff. And

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Speaker 2: as we're going to dive into there's just too much

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Speaker 2: going on for me to focus on that. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's gonna be back in Jersey. I'm happy back from vacation.

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Speaker 2: I'm hoping to chill just for a week or two

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Speaker 2: and catch my breath there. Chet.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, I would argue that while you were away

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Speaker 1: included some of the most consequential and I think impactful

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Speaker 1: moments in the betting space since legalization in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: If you are a professional better, and avid better, recreational better,

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Speaker 1: even a casual better, all of this impacts you because

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Speaker 1: there has just been a cascade of laws and taxes

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Speaker 1: and changes to the industry that are independent of each other,

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Speaker 1: but when you add them all up, impact literally everybody.

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Speaker 1: If you are betting five dollars a game in New

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Speaker 1: Jersey or Illinois, all of a sudden, you are going

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Speaker 1: to find that operators like DraftKings and FanDuel are going

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Speaker 1: to be charging you a fifty cent per bet fee

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Speaker 1: because now the taxes for those operators have been raised

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Speaker 1: in certain states. There have been changes in federal law,

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Speaker 1: included in the Big Beautiful Bill, which you are a follower,

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Speaker 1: if you are a follower of gambling Twitter, you have

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Speaker 1: seen this all over where for years and Simon will

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Speaker 1: talk about this. You could deduct one hundred percent of

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Speaker 1: your losses from your taxes. So if you made one

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars betting, and you lost ninety thousand dollars betting,

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Speaker 1: you could deduct that ninety thousand dollars, and what you

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Speaker 1: ultimately made and pay taxes on was ten thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Included in the Big Beautiful Bill now is a provision

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Speaker 1: which is legal now. It is a law that you

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Speaker 1: can only deduct ninety percent of your losses, so you

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Speaker 1: might end up paying on what's essentially phantom income. That

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Speaker 1: has been a huge conversation. That could be millions and

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars for gamblers. The provision is estimated to

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Speaker 1: earn the to create one point one billion dollars in

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Speaker 1: revenue for the government over the next several years. There

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Speaker 1: have been two betting scandals involving players that we are

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Speaker 1: going to talk about, both in the NBA and in

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball, and sort of the social media reaction

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Speaker 1: to those has been fascinating because we are in a

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Speaker 1: time where anybody can be Sherlock Holmes if they have

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Speaker 1: a TikTok account and access to video and a little

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Speaker 1: bit of information and a lot of speculation. There are

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Speaker 1: upstarts in the form of prediction markets like Kelshi, Polymarket

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Speaker 1: sport trade now posing real threats to the current status

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Speaker 1: of sports betting and provide new options in sports betters,

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Speaker 1: all of which becomes more relevant with the Big Beautiful

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Speaker 1: Bill and increase in taxes and the opportunities for sports

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Speaker 1: betters to play in these markets where it might be

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Speaker 1: a little bit more equitable and generally simon, I think

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Speaker 1: there's just growing hostility in the sports betting space. It's

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Speaker 1: from operators towards professional betters who are consistently getting banned

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Speaker 1: because operators don't want to take their money. It's regulators

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Speaker 1: towards the operators who are trying to find more way

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Speaker 1: to raise money, so they're increasing taxes. It's the federal

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Speaker 1: government towards betters with this big beautiful bill. It's society

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Speaker 1: against the idea of sports betting. Bob Costas was on

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Speaker 1: Meet the Press this past weekend talking about the ills

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Speaker 1: of sports betting wild wild times. We're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about all of that from his point of view as

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Speaker 1: a pro mine, as a journalist who is reporting on

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Speaker 1: a lot of this and it's all in my head

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Speaker 1: right now. For this book I am writing. The prediction

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Speaker 1: marks especially are fascinating to me, and to me that

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Speaker 1: deserves a much longer, broader conversation, deeper conversation. So on

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Speaker 1: Thursday show, Simon and I will speak with Chris Gerlocker,

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Speaker 1: who's a reporter for Prediction News who has been covering

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Speaker 1: prediction markets for a long time. He's going to join

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Speaker 1: and I would say that since I've been reporting this book,

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Speaker 1: the influences of these businesses has become an increasingly important

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Speaker 1: narrative in our space, and their sort of disruption that

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Speaker 1: is happening and how these things are being framed is

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Speaker 1: so big that it is akin to the way people

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Speaker 1: talked about Uber, the way people talked about social media. Calshi,

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Speaker 1: one of the prediction markets, the one that is legal

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Speaker 1: in the United States, just raised a hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: five million dollars is now value at two billion dollars. Polymarket,

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Speaker 1: another one which is not legal in the United States,

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Speaker 1: raised another amount of money. It's worth a billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in valuation. So there's a lot to discuss in this space.

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Speaker 1: We'll unpack all of that with Chris on Thursday, Simon.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's fucking Midsummer and there's not supposed to

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Speaker 1: be anything going on, and all of this is going on.

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Speaker 1: Here's the first thing I want to ask you about.

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Speaker 1: If you don't mind, unless you unless you feel passionate

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Speaker 1: about one of the topics, I want to ask you

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Speaker 1: about one of the topics.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's through all of them, all right.

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Speaker 1: So the first one is the betting scandal, right because

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Speaker 1: with the players, we're talking about Malik Leap Beasley for

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Speaker 1: the Detroit Pistons and being under investigation for betting, and

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Speaker 1: then Luis Ortiz, the Guardian's pitcher, who was under investigation

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Speaker 1: for gambling. This one was broken by Ken Rosenthal at

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Speaker 1: the Athletic and then David Purdam and Jeff Passon at

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Speaker 1: ESPN advanced it because they identified that there were two

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Speaker 1: pitches that or Tees had thrown that were specifically under investigation,

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Speaker 1: and with Beasley, it's prop bets that were specifically under investigation.

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Speaker 1: And to me, it was fascinating to go on social

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Speaker 1: media and see the video evidence of the two pitches

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Speaker 1: that or Teas was under investigation for. What are your

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Speaker 1: thoughts generally on these kinds of scandals and how they

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Speaker 1: are impacting the space.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I have a lot of opinions on it,

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Speaker 2: Chad disturb from the top. It's two different sports, which

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Speaker 2: is a big deal obviously because that happened around the

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Speaker 2: same exact time ortiz One. I don't think he can

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Speaker 2: blame on the interpreter. This is very, very noticeable he

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Speaker 2: did something in a game because I think it's what

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Speaker 2: they're breaking down the video. If I'm not wrong, Chad

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Speaker 2: is it's the first pitch right, yep, and very easy

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Speaker 2: for these books to track. So I say it all

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Speaker 2: the time. People don't understand how how much there was

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Speaker 2: in scandal, players tanking games, throwing boxing matches, all this

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Speaker 2: stuff from the very beginning of sports, when betting came around.

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Speaker 2: This stuff has been around forever. That is why to

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Speaker 2: us people in the know, especially Chad, it's so great

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Speaker 2: that the legalization of sports have happened because of these

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Speaker 2: exact things. They can catch these people now that they

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Speaker 2: try to taint our games that we love and we again,

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Speaker 2: it would ruin so much to know that these things

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Speaker 2: were happening, especially at the highest level. Now, lucky for us,

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Speaker 2: these things keep happening to players that again they're not

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Speaker 2: nobody's I mean again the o tiny thing that's for

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Speaker 2: another day. But it's like these other people they're not

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Speaker 2: it's not like they're the highest of highs, but they

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Speaker 2: are names in these athletes in these sports that are

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Speaker 2: pretty well known. Like Beasley was about apparently was about

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Speaker 2: to get paid for now. Yeah, now I was looking

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Speaker 2: at jail time possibly, So it's a really big deal.

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Speaker 2: So is someone that this is my life, this is

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Speaker 2: what I work in. I love it because it's like

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Speaker 2: keep it clean, keep it all above board. And at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, the more you learn about

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Speaker 2: the stuff, it all comes back to debt and owing people.

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Speaker 2: And that's the scary part is these people get in

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Speaker 2: trouble for different things. Maybe they have their own gambling

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Speaker 2: addictions themselves, and they get to these holes. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: just at the end of the day, it's all sad

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Speaker 2: because it's like lives ruined, millions and million dollars cost

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Speaker 2: to them family. Their families are ruined in certain ways

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Speaker 2: as well, so brutal. But the things we have in

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Speaker 2: line it makes it today much better product betting on

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Speaker 2: sports than it was even say ten years ago. It's

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Speaker 2: so much cleaner protected than it used to be. I'm

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Speaker 2: such a fan that they keep catching these people. They're

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Speaker 2: with AI or whatever it is, these algorithms, they keep

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Speaker 2: catching these people with just a really big fan of

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Speaker 2: it and props to the people you do the work.

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Speaker 2: It's like it's not only as a real journalism, it's

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Speaker 2: real work by these sports books catching these people doing

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Speaker 2: this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what alerted people to anything related

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Speaker 1: to Beasley and what that investigation.

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Speaker 2: It's always going to be the money coming in on

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Speaker 2: the bets chat.

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Speaker 1: Right, But I don't mean like how they tracked it

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Speaker 1: right with ortes. There's an organization called IC three sixty

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Speaker 1: and they do global monitoring of markets and are in

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Speaker 1: regular communication with the operators and with the leagues to

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Speaker 1: police what's happening. And I see three sixty is the

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Speaker 1: one that recognized what was going on with orties and

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Speaker 1: then alerted the authorities that needed to be known, that

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Speaker 1: needed to know about what was happening. So that's an

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Speaker 1: important part of this that has been going on for

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Speaker 1: thirty years right, and thirty years ago the operators were

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Speaker 1: regularly talking to the leagues themselves. That's how scandals like

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Speaker 1: the Arizona State College basketball betting scandal came to be known,

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Speaker 1: is the operators recognized strange betting patterns and were able

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Speaker 1: to shut down the betting and then communicate to the

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Speaker 1: n c DOUBLEA about what was happening. Now there are

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Speaker 1: global organizations that monitor this as it's become bigger, and

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Speaker 1: as the leagues themselves have just so much more at

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Speaker 1: stake and at risk because of the legalization of sports

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Speaker 1: betting and because of the stances they've taken. I had

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Speaker 1: a conversation with someone I'm talking to at the NFL

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Speaker 1: for this book, and we were talking about sort of

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Speaker 1: the threat to integrity of the game, and I made

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Speaker 1: the point that, as you just said, Simon, there have

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Speaker 1: been betting scandals as long as there have been sports.

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Speaker 1: Literally Major League Baseball, the National League was founded in

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Speaker 1: eighteen seventy six. In eighteen seventy seven, there was a

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Speaker 1: betting scandal, and Matt Mitchell and I talked about this

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Speaker 1: on sort of the Great Moments in Gambling podcast. The

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Steelers, the New York Giants, the Cleveland Browns, the

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Speaker 1: now Arizona Cardinals, the New York Yankees, all founded by

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Speaker 1: professional betters or professional bookmakers, because those are the people

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Speaker 1: who were willing to take the biggest risks and had

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Speaker 1: cash at hand and liked sports. When all these things

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Speaker 1: were becoming a big deal, every sports betting scandal has

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Speaker 1: been followed by increased viewership, increased rights, increased audience, increased interest.

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Speaker 1: I think the sports betting scandals are terrible. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they're going to be the death knell for sports. Really.

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Speaker 1: What worries me for sports and sports betting is violence

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Speaker 1: against the players, because I do think that's going to

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Speaker 1: be something that we saw with Lance mccullors, we saw

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Speaker 1: Tyrese Haliburton talked about it last year. When players have

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Speaker 1: to start getting security, when fans can't control themselves, when

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Speaker 1: there is a sort of you forget who you are,

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Speaker 1: where you are, or even worse, you didn't know to

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Speaker 1: begin with, and you are blaming the players for your losses,

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Speaker 1: That to me is a really frightening development that seem

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Speaker 1: to be much less relevant or obvious before sports betting

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Speaker 1: became legal and before the number of people betting hit increased.

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Speaker 2: That's fair, but I mean it's a that's always been around,

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Speaker 2: right fanatic fan, I mean that's always been I mean

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Speaker 2: they what was that movie they made Back of the

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Speaker 2: Day now Alpatune, I forget who it was. He was

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Speaker 2: a crazy fan.

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Speaker 1: Oh I don't know it.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, you would love it. It's terrible, but it's a

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Speaker 2: good movie just about how crazy fans are. You literally

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Speaker 2: capture as a player pills them hostage. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: it's always been there, Chad, I agree with you. Like obviously,

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Speaker 2: a guy yelling at a basketball player about losing his

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Speaker 2: ten dollars parlay because they didn't hit some shot. It's

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Speaker 2: it's it's a it's a bad part of it. But

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Speaker 2: like I told you from the get go, we're just

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Speaker 2: in the early days for it. So you're always gonna

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Speaker 2: have these people like Bob Costas or wherever coming out

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Speaker 2: and talking about how bad it is and the negative

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Speaker 2: stuff of sports betting. There's always bena be a couple

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Speaker 2: of bad eggs. It's just it's just the way it is.

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Speaker 2: It's the same thing we talk about with alcohol and

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Speaker 2: cigarettes and things like that, where it's freedom of choice.

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Speaker 2: We know it's not the best thing, but obviously if

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Speaker 2: people can keep their shit together, keep their cool, it's

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Speaker 2: a great thing for the general public to be able

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Speaker 2: to do to you know, enjoy life. And it's just

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Speaker 2: another thing part of it. But yeah, the going on

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Speaker 2: social media and telling people are gonna kill their families.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy they catch and prosecute these people, right, That's

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Speaker 2: that's another good thing that they're doing now, is these

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Speaker 2: assholes aren't just getting away with making these outlangers threats, Like,

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Speaker 2: there are consequences to these certain words you say to people.

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Speaker 2: So I'm with you. It's it's obviously the black stain

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Speaker 2: on what we do is these people that go either

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Speaker 2: way to like you know, say horrible things. Mean you

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Speaker 2: are part of it, Like, this is part of our job.

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Speaker 2: We get the stuff people say to us. It's it's

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Speaker 2: insane where I just know me personally, no one would

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Speaker 2: ever say that to my face. So it is it

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Speaker 2: is a weird thing that we are involved in this

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Speaker 2: world we're in. But again, I love it. It's it's

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Speaker 2: all weird and unique in its own way. But I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't change it. Obviously there's things that would change to it,

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Speaker 2: but overall, it's what the craziness is what makes it work, Chad,

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Speaker 2: So I'm with you, though, it's it's when you hear

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Speaker 2: those stories, it's it's just horrible when you read that

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Speaker 2: stuff about these players, what they go through with those fans.

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Speaker 1: Think about you, Simon, people say mean things to you

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Speaker 1: and they like you. They don't even like me that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Think about what I get.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can only imagine.

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Speaker 1: So I also found it really fascinating the way people

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Speaker 1: on TikTok, Instagram wherever were speculating about Malik Beasley. They

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Speaker 1: didn't even know what he was being investigated for, but

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Speaker 1: they were taking out of context clips and saying, look

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Speaker 1: at how obvious it is that he was fixing this game.

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Speaker 1: To me, that felt totally irresponsible and tasteless. And that

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Speaker 1: to me, whereas the artis stuff you could find the

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Speaker 1: video evidence, that to me felt like the flip side

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Speaker 1: under belly sensational idiocy of what happens on social media

432
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: when you are connecting one plus one and getting three.

433
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it is. Robert de Niro, the fan,

434
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: That's what it was. I was trying to I coudn't

435
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: even look it up. I was like, what the hell

436
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 2: was the name of that movie? I coudn't even think

437
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: it was. The lead actor is Rob Deer a fan.

438
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: Game.

439
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: You hear it, So it's tough push right an insane

440
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 2: fan and it's like we're talking about here, Chad.

441
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: There's just Wesley Snipes.

442
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So they're just they're gonna be out there.

443
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: What can you do. It's it's part of what It's

444
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 2: part of the game. And the most shocking thing too,

445
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: again I don't spend much time on social media, was

446
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: these poker players talking about well, we're about to talk

447
00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: about this big beautiful bill, yes, and the hate and

448
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: disdain they would get from people, and it's like, it's

449
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: just bizarre. It is bizarre. It's a bizarre world we

450
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 2: live in. So yeah, we should definitely dive into that.

451
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about it. So the Big Beautiful Bill

452
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: was passed, and in the moments before it was passed,

453
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: say twenty four hours or so, you started seeing the

454
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: news popping up via Twitter, largely about changes to how

455
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: professional betters could file their taxes. And it used to

456
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: be you could take one hundred percent of your losses

457
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: and deduct that from your wins that you filed for

458
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: simon you filed as a professional better and then all

459
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: of a sudden you're getting what basically your salary is

460
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: but because gambling is not necessarily the best thing for society,

461
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: and because gamblers are not the most sympathetic group, this

462
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: was something that through the Finance Committee, had been studied

463
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: and then was added to the Senate's big beautiful bill,

464
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: and when Congress was going through it, it got through,

465
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: and it became a pretty big uproar, not just from

466
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 1: gambling Twitter, but then all of a sudden, the Washington

467
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: Post did a story about it. ESPN did a story

468
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,959
Speaker 1: about it, The New York Post did a story about it.

469
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: Axios did a story about it. It was fascinating to

470
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: me of the thousand page bill and all of the

471
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: provisions in this bill, including the fact that I believe

472
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: there were provisions that made it easier or more cost

473
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: effective to get a silencer. This is the one that

474
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: bubbled up and became sort of so interesting for people.

475
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: From your point of view, Simon, I've basically laid it out.

476
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: You can you can only deduct ninety percent of your losses.

477
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: Now explain from your point of view you how that

478
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: impacts professional betters. And I will say this was such

479
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: a cost to lab that already the representative from Las

480
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: Vegas has proposed a bill to reverse this and is

481
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: already getting support. It needs bipartisan support. I think it

482
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: will get it. This doesn't go into effect until the

483
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: end of twenty twenty six, so my senses, over the

484
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: next eighteen months this might be repealed. But in the

485
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: immediate it's something you got to think about. Simon.

486
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I could actually take ten to fifteen minutes

487
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: on us, but we don't have that much time. And

488
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: I'll just say the quick version is it's over. It

489
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: just they've made it so that it's impossible to make

490
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: a living betting in America legally, so we'll die have

491
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: more time in doo, we have more time and to

492
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: break it more down. But as right now as it's.

493
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: So hold on, I know Matt Mitchell is pushing us,

494
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: but like this is a huge topic. I know, give it,

495
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: give it a little back.

496
00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: Here, I mean, just the basis of it. It's it's

497
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: just there's too many moving parts right now. We don't

498
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: know what's going to happen right Like what you just said,

499
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: it's it's impossible. It's impossible to make a living when

500
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: I'm paying for ten percent of my losses. And we

501
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: even talked about new Jersey either, like what they're doing

502
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: in New Jersey. It's just we're being attacked and I

503
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: dripped with you. In America, they will do anything. Our

504
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: government will do anything in their power to tax anybody.

505
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: But they're rich and this is just another one of

506
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 2: those things. Cause again, yes it's affecting professional betters. We

507
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: make a living finding ways around the rules, so this

508
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: is not going to affect us in the long term

509
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: and anyway other than it's fucking up my life and

510
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: maybe don't make me move to fucking England. I don't

511
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: want to move to England for six months, but that

512
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: might be well my life is because Canada is the

513
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: same way. Canada will tax you for being a professional better,

514
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 2: so you know, the only countries that are left, maybe

515
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: I'll be in Supermuda for six months, like all the

516
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: options of the table. I've been meeting with people for

517
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: the last two days about it because it's such a

518
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: big deal. And yeah, it's it's blind siding because I

519
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: heard whispers, but I didn't think it was real because

520
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: it's so stupid and it went through. It's like these

521
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: guys just don't know what they're doing. So yeah, chat,

522
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: I just it's something we're going to spend a lot

523
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: of time home because it's it's one of the more

524
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: fascinating stories, like you said, since the legalization of sports

525
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 2: betting in this country, and it's a clear attack on

526
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: professional betters and people who make their living beating the casinos.

527
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: So that's all I'm going to say at that part.

528
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: I do have a theory about this. I want to

529
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: leave a little bit of a cliffhanger. If Matt Mitchell

530
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: had hair on his head, he'd be pulling it out

531
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: right now because he wants us to to save some

532
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: of this for part two of this very special podcast episode,

533
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: which I will because I do have a theory and

534
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: I want to bring it up with our guest, Chris Gerlocker,

535
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: who's going to be joining us on Thursday show. So

536
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: I want to leave a little bit of that meat

537
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: on the bone. So let's just say that we will

538
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: return with our next episode of The Favorites Thursday on

539
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: the Action Network YouTube page with special guest Chris Gerlocker.

540
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: Download us from Spotify, Apple Pods, wherever you get your pods,

541
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: Rate review, subscribe, leave us five stars, say whatever you want.

542
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: Feedback is a gift Until next time. Love You Action

543
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: Network reminds you please gamble responsibly. If you or someone

544
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: you care about has a gambling problem, help Us available

545
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven at one eight hundred gambler