WEBVTT - Wes Moore 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:07.440 Westmore, a native of Baltimore like me, is a Rhodes Scholar, 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:11.840 White House Fellow, Afghanistan War veteran five time book author, 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:13.760 and for the last four years has been running the 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.240 Robin Hood Foundation. He's stepping down soon and has plans 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.320 to run for governor of Maryland. On this episode, appear 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:22.680 to Pere West and I discussed the struggle for racial 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:26.720 equality in America, his organization's COVID relief work, and his 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.280 political ambitions. Welcome West to our show. It is so 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.560 good to be with you. As always, David. Thank you 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:37.000 tell people what the robin Hood Foundation is because recently 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.519 some people think robin Hood. They think it's stock trading. 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:41.440 But that's not what you do, right, You're not in 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.239 that robin Hood, right that, that is not what we do. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.760 It was amazing during the whole uh Game Stop episode 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.280 I had people were blowing up my inbox and saying, 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.519 you know, unblock my trades. And I'm like, I had 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:54.600 no idea how to unblock your trades, but I wish 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.880 you'd luck with that. Um. But the Robin and Foundation 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.240 is a is a thirty two year old organization with 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:05.319 an exclusive goal of ending poverty and uh. And it 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.600 was started by Paul Tutor Jones and and Peter Borish 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:10.720 and the collection to other people who are actually in 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.840 the investment business. And they started this foundation where they say, 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.400 we want to be able to take uh take metrics 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.720 in best practices and invest in the organizations that we 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.679 think have the highest probability of being able to end 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:26.600 this scourge of poverty. And they started off making about 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.800 forty dollars worth of investments. Now thirty two years later, 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.559 we have allocated just shy of four billion dollars into 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.440 this work and into this fight. And we fund everything 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:42.200 from education to housing, transportation, mental health and physical health, 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.959 criminal justice reform. Anywhere where poverty is either the cause 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:51.400 or the consequence, we will find fund, build, if necessary, 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:53.760 all these mechanisms that we think put us on our 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.480 better pathway of creating more equitable society. So how much 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.640 money does Robert Hood giveaway annually? Side? Yeah? So so 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:03.600 over the you know, when we think about the process 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.040 of the of the last year. Uh, you know, we 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:10.799 ended up raising around two hundred and forty million dollars. Uh. 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:12.480 You know, just in the in the past four year 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.520 that I've been I've been the CEO. We've raised over 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.600 two over six hundred and seventy five million dollars. But 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.560 the unique thing about our model is actually this is that, 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.080 you know, there are certain foundations that will say, okay, 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:27.000 we'll take a portion of our endowment and allocate the 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.799 portion of our endowment into our grandmaking. Robin Hood's endowment 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.520 is essentially zero. Right. There's there's a uniqueness of our 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.560 model is that every dollar we get in it will 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.480 go out within that next within within the time period 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:42.640 of that next calendar year. And so every year on 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.040 January one, it's like, you know, it's like press go again, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.480 we raise and then we get the money out in 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.400 the capital as quickly as possible. But you have staff 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.000 who pays for the staff all the administrative costs that 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:56.320 usually in some foundations that could be uh, you know, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.320 five or ten percent absolutely if if not, if not more. 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.160 And but you know, the other unique model, the other 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:06.280 mechanism of Rominan's model is actually the fact that our 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:10.000 our board actually covers all operational expenses. And your focus 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.680 is New York City? Is that right? Principally it is 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.359 it is even though you know, since our since uh, 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.639 since the time that that we've come on board, we 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.600 really you know, continue to capture the imagination around the 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.680 idea that that while poverty is nowhere near beaten in 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:25.960 New York City, poverty is not a New York City 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.720 issue either, right, So we we we are a very 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.000 proud place based platform and place based organization. But also, 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.679 for example, two years ago, we launched an initiative called 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.280 Mobility Labs and LABS actually is an acronym that stands 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:42.480 for Learning and Action BETS and we have found seven 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:46.640 different communities around the country to really explore the issues 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:51.200 of urban, rural and suburban poverty and areas that include 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.320 you know, my hometown of Baltimore, Maryland and your hometown 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.960 of Baltimore, Maryland. But COVID must have made it more 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.600 difficult to raise money or to figure out how to 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.800 give it way and to run the the foundation remotely. 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.200 So how did you do that? Yeah, I mean code 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.640 COVID was um COVID in This past year was a 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.240 remarkable year, David, And there was a lot of uncertainty, 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.200 uncertainty about how does what does that mean in terms 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:17.039 of how we continue to move at a quick and 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:18.919 a fast pace despite the fact that we weren't going 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.200 to be together. How do we consider the fact that 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.080 we knew how damaging this was going to be on 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:26.760 our communities and our community partners as as you know, 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:28.920 we saw eleven years of job growth go away in 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:33.080 eleven weeks, and we knew which communities would be hit 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.120 hardest by that. It was our communities and so so 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.160 but I I'm so proud of the way that we 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.560 responded and rebounded. You know, we activated uh something called 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.200 the Relief Fund, which was the you know, for only 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.560 the third time in the organization, in the history's organization 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.560 that we've activated the Relief Fund. Once was after nine eleven, 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.360 the other was after Hurricane Sandy, and now the third 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.200 was COVID nineteen where we had a specific a few 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:02.000 specific focuses. One was supporting the nonprofit sector, which we 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.800 knew was going to take an extraordinary hit, and these 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:06.920 were all the organizations that were doing the social service 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.120 work in the city and beyond that needed it. And 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:14.360 the second piece was emergency cash assistance, just getting cash 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.840 into people's hands. We knew that from data that we 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.640 that we supported and funded and helped build that that 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.920 that over around to people could not afford a four 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.320 shock with cash. Well, that shock, that shock was here 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:31.880 and it was a lot more than four hundred dollars. 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:33.680 So we knew immediately what you had to do was 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.480 get cash supports into people that needed it most and 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.560 specifically people who we saw government intervention was not touching. 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:45.080 Let me ask you during uh COVID, many nonprofit organizations 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.520 have suffered because they would say their donors don't feel 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.520 as wealthy as they did before. Did your donors say, 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:52.719 you know, not right now, I know it's a problem, 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:54.240 but I don't make as much money as I used to, 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.719 Or did you get more money from your donors? Yeah? 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.719 We we actually saw people who have who stepped up 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.359 signing nificantly, and and and and I think there's a 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.880 couple of things, uh you know that we learned and 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.400 really helped to n package with all that, um you know, 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:10.640 one was that one was that, you know, the reality 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.160 was that not everyone was getting financially hurt during this time. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.599 That while you did have certain people who did see 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.880 their incomes their incomes decrease or or in many cases 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.400 their incomes go away, you saw some that actually saw 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.000 their businesses increase and their businesses jump. And part of 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.359 The challenge that we also continue to see was how 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.560 this separation in this divide and the wealth divide, how 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.080 it shows itself. And so you had people who that 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.760 dynamic and that reality showed itself also in philanthrop and giving. 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.960 The second piece was I think we saw a measure 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.640 of human pain and a universality of the human pain 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.280 that was impossible for people not to respond to. Let's 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.440 talk about how you became the head of the Robin 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.960 Hood Foundation, because you're not You've worked in New York, 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.040 but you're from Baltimore, as you mentioned earlier, and you're 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.960 minding your own business this you're in Baltimore, you're living 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.600 in Baltimore. How did they come to hear of you? 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.400 And had you been doing anything like this that would 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.960 have given you the qualification that for them to think 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.320 that you'll be the right person. David, I I call 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:16.200 myself the most accidental uh foundation head that you could 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:19.440 ever possibly imagine, you know, because I had no background 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.560 and in in in philanthropy, Uh, you know, I and 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:24.760 I and I thought to myself when they first approached 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.640 me and they said, uh, you know, uh, they were like, 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.080 you know, we'd like for you to consider being the 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.640 CEO of Robin Hood. And I said, I don't know 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:34.960 if that makes sense. And I said, I'm thinking of 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.800 a bunch of reasons why, but let me give you three. 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:38.720 And I said, the first reason is, you know I 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.040 live in Baltimore. You know I'm a Marylander and I 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.120 don't plan on moving, and so I don't know how 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.160 i would run a New York based organization when I'm 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.880 here living in Baltimore. The second piece that I said 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.320 to them was, you know was I'm enjoying the work 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.960 that I'm doing here in Maryland. And then the third 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:54.720 piece was I said, you know I've been I've been 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.200 critical of philanthropy historically, and in fact, the head of 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.280 the search committee was became the chair of the board. 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.080 And a good friend said, you know, we've it's all 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.480 over the internet. We've seen it. We've done our diligence, 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.040 and have you realized you're not that persuasive? Then you 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.120 couldn't persuade them not to go after you. But let's 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.880 talk about your incredible life story. We were born in Baltimore. 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:20.200 And then, um, your father died when he was when 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.080 you were young? Is that right? He died when I 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:24.040 was when I was about four years old. He died 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.720 in front of me. Uh, from a from a a 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.400 rare but a but a treatable virus. Your mother said, okay, 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.760 we're gonna move you to New York or she wanted 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:34.000 to move to New York. Did you move to the 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.520 Bronx then? Yeah, so, so she was having a really 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.560 difficult time with the transition. Um, you know, she became 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.200 a widow in her twenties with three children that she 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:43.480 was going to raise on her own, and had a 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.120 really difficult time with it, And eventually she called up 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:48.680 her parents, my grandparents, who lived up in the Bronx. My, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.960 you're right. My grandfather was a minister in the South Bronx. 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.920 My grandmother was a school teacher for twenty five years 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.960 in South Bronx. Both immigrated to uh, to this country 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.319 and uh and uh it their their house was barely 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:02.840 big enough for them, but they figured out a way 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:04.480 to make it big enough for all of us. Sorry, 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.520 she moved up there, and you were the perfect child. 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.000 You never got in trouble and everything worked out where 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.520 I was that right in my in my own mind? Yeah, No, 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.320 I mean I had a that was a really hard 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.920 transition for me. Um. By the time I was in 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.760 seventh grade, I was you know, I was literally kicked out, 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.280 and you know, I found myself hurting people that actually 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:25.840 did love me, so I could impress people that could 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:27.720 care less about me. I mean, I felt I first 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.440 time that I was handcuffed was when I was eleven 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.320 years old. And uh. And so by the time I 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:36.320 was thirteen, after years of threats of sending me away 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:38.120 to this school or send me away to that school 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.000 or whatever it was, when I was thirteen, my mom 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:43.120 made good on her threats and she sent me to 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.560 military school. All right, you went to a military school. 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:47.360 And I assume you weren't dying to go to a 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.200 military school. And it wasn't my was my first choice. 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.680 I straighten you out a little bit or something like that. 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.520 They did, well, you know it. It took a little while, David, 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:58.679 And you know, I read away. I think I ran 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.440 away five times in the is four d ease? All right, 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.480 So eventually you go to military college. Is that right? 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.960 That's junior college. I did. I graduated from high school 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.199 and then I uh uh, and I was trying to 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.080 figure out what I wanted to do and and Honestly, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.960 for many people in my life, particularly a lot of 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.839 the men in my life who were my mentors at 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:19.920 that point in my and the people I admired, they 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.160 all had one thing in common, and that's they all 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.600 wore the uniform of this country. And uh so I 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.720 went to I joined the army, and then I went 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.240 to a military college. All right, But then you eventually 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:33.360 went to Johns Hopkins, right, And at Johns Hopkins you 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.199 must have done reasonably well because you were elected as 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:40.199 a Rhodes scholar. Now, sometimes people that win Rhodes scholarships, 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.080 they go to Oxford, they get a degree, or they 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:44.480 don't get a degree. Then they come back and say, Okay, 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.600 I'm gonna go to Harvard Law School, Yale Law School, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.120 I'm gonna go um into something important like private equity, 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.400 whatever it might be. Right, what did you decide to do? 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:56.760 How Come you didn't go to Harvard or Yale Law 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.240 store some other grade law school. How come you decided 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.080 to do something? Probably not that many Rhodes scholars were 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.240 doing well. You know, at first I actually went to 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.720 you know, I went to the World of Finance, and 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:08.440 I was there for a little while, working at Deutsche 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.040 Bank in London, and it was great and it was nice. 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.280 And then I tell you, David, I was. I remember 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.720 getting a phone call uh and I thought I was 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:17.840 I was brand new, a brand new analyst working on 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.520 deals and uh. It was from my good buddy UM 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.880 at that time, Major Mike Fenzel, who was with the 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.160 eighty second Airborn Division. And he said something me uh 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.120 that he said, uh, so when are you going to 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:35.440 get into the fight? And that was indicting for me, 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.280 as you know, because I trained, I'm a paratrooper, I 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.599 had gone through gone through all my training with my soldiers, 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.120 and and as as my soldiers are now deploying to 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:50.880 Afghanistan and deploying to Iraq, you know, I was working 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:55.280 in in high finance and I literally went back and 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:57.280 thought about it and prayed on it and and I 0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.520 went back and and and called him back up I 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:01.560 think a couple days later, and said, Mike, I'm in. 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.240 And so I ended up doing a They end up 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.760 doing a by name request for me. Uh. And I 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.400 left finance and I went and I joined up with 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.800 the eighty second Airborne Division. I went actually down to 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.200 Fort Benning, Uh to go uh, to go do my 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.760 training and and and mobed up. And then literally probably 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.400 around nine months after that conversation that I had in 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.280 this stairwell of Deutsche Bank with Mike Fenzel, I was 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.080 getting ready to deploy with the eighty second Airborn to Afganistan. 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.080 All right, so you go to Afghanistan. But did you 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.280 ask for an office job there, something that you could 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.960 be kind of not be shot at or something like that. No, 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.120 not at all. We uh, I was very clear. You know, 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.080 I went over and I led a group of paratroopers 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.080 as as a special operations officer. They're working you know, 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:49.160 information operations psych psy ops, which is you know, psychological operations, 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:51.240 and we were very much in the field. And you 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.679 know what was interesting is that, uh, so much of 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.520 the conversation at that time two thousand five was was 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.280 iraq Um. You know, we had about a hundred and 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.360 fifty thou groups in the rock at the time. In Afghanistan, 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.559 we only had about seventeen thousand troops. And so I 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.679 remember actually when I got deployment orders for Afghanistan, there 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:08.839 are a lot of people like who, you know, a 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:12.520 leash's not going to Iraq uh, not knowing the kind 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.959 of fighting that was going on in Afghanistan at that time. 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:20.640 And literally within the first days of Afghanistan, Uh, I 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.560 started seeing firsthand, you know, literally you see first firefight, 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.480 you start seeing, um, just what kind of fighting was 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.800 going on in Afghanistan. So how long were you over there? 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.200 I was over for a little, a little shy of 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.240 a year, Monk. Then you came back to the United States? 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.360 Did and what did you do that? Uh? Then I 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.760 actually started working back and now so I did. First 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.880 did a White House Fellowship. Mike Fenstin Gentleman was a 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.120 former White House Fellow, and actually I came back from 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.320 a mission one night and he said, I want you 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.439 to apply for this thing called the White House Fellowship. 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:52.320 And he said, you know this is it's important for 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.959 people back in Washington to get a first understanding of 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.839 the year that you're having right now, so they can 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.199 actually see what's going on on the ground. So I 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.280 applied for a White House Fellowship. I was blessed to 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.600 receive it, and I had the honor of working under 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.720 under Events Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice uh And and 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.920 her team, which was just an unbelievable and and a 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.840 life shifting experience for me to be able to go 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.640 through that. Okay, so you after the White House Fellowship, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.320 you work for Condoleeza Rice. Did your mother say, now 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.200 can you get a serious job that's a full time 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.360 thing makes some money? Is that what you finally decided 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.720 to do? What did you do? I? I did at 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.800 that time my mother was like, all right, slow down 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.880 and started actually preparing a family. And also I was 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.920 newly married now at that point too, So so now 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.000 you really are starting to think about, all right, what 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:41.680 are the things that you want to be able to do? 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:43.280 And I started thinking about the things that I was 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.000 interested in, this in the skill sets that I had had. Uh, 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.520 And so I decided that so maybe I should try 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.080 to give U give finance a shot. And then I 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.160 had to had the pleasure then of working at City 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:56.360 and working for for a few years at City as 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.840 at first as an analyst associate than a vice president U, 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.120 you know, just working on collections of deals. So you 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.040 moved to New York. I then moved to New York. Yes, yes, 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.000 so we were living in Maryland. I got back Afghanistan 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.120 and moved to New York for a few years. Then 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:13.480 when did you move back to Baltimore. Yeah. I, UM, 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.920 I remember having a conversation UM with UH, with another 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:22.560 mentor of mine, person who was running investment banking. Uh 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.720 now is running premier Ray McGuire and UH. And I 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:27.480 went to him and I said, you know, I think 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:29.640 I'm I think it's time for me to do something different. 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.600 I just finished actually writing a book called The Other 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.680 Westmore UM, which was an important process in time for 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.160 me just will also be reflective about my own life. 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.720 And UH. And that's when I said, I made the 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.640 decision that I really wanted to leave finance and and 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.600 to go focus on on these issues that are really 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.480 my life's burning issues. Being a Rhodes Scholar and a 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.640 White House fellow isn't enough. You have to write a 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.960 book as well to make everybody else look bad because 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.400 you're doing too many things. So tell people now who 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.920 are watching, who the Other Westmar was. It was. It 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.000 was actually during that same time period of the Rhodes Scholarship. 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.320 Um that that it was right after I got the 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:13.120 Rhodes Scholarship. Of The Baltimore Sun, which is our hometown paper. UH, 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.240 you know, wrote this article about this local kid who 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.000 just got an award and was now getting ready at 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.840 help to England on this scholarship, and at the same 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.920 time they're writing a whole series of articles about four 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.200 guys who walked into a jewelry store and um and 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.920 attempted to rob the jewly store, and in this botched 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.560 jewelry store robbery ended up murdering an off duty police officer. 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.200 And there was a twelve day national manhunt for these 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.640 four guys, and finally, after twelve days, all four guys 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.000 were caught. One of the people that was eventually caught 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.440 was a guy who's uh we were living in the 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.400 same area, We're around the same age. We both grew 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.720 up in single parent households and his name was also Westmore. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.720 And I reached out to him and I wrote him 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.920 this note. He wrote me a note back, and eventually 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.520 those that single the note turned to dozens of notes. 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:03.960 Those dozens of notes turned to dozens of visits. I've 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.760 now known west for for for almost two decades. But um, 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.159 but at the same time I was getting ready how 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.600 to England, he was getting ready to start his life 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:15.119 sentence in prison. And so the other west Moore was 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.560 a book that really evolved from our years of of 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.760 of of friendship and about these two kids and what 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:25.159 ends up happening that causes this split amongst these two 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:29.040 kids with similar backgrounds to include names. So you've now 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:34.720 written five books. Um, one of them is about Freddy Gray, 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.600 and this was a person who was taken uh into 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.399 a police patty wagon and en route to the police 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.760 station I guess died and cause riots in Baltimore and 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.480 so forth. Um, what is your own view now on 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.760 whether the racial situation in the United States, because of 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:57.320 examples like Freddie Gray or George Floyd, have gotten worse 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.120 than when you were growing up. Where do you see 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.680 any progress being made? Yeah, I mean I I see, 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.159 I see the potential for progress being made. And the 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.200 potential for progress being made is the fact that that 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:11.960 we're now understanding and talking about this is not just 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:16.720 isolated incidences, but we're understanding the the the the longevity 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.359 and the lineage of this that that the damage of 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:24.640 of George Floyd wasn't just the fact that we watched 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.800 a homicide on camera, but it was the fact that 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.600 his name gets added to a much longer lineage of 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.840 names that there's just been no accountability for. Right. But 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.320 it also comes down to the fact that we watch 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:40.359 how these acts and we watch how these issues of 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:45.200 systemic racism do show themselves, and not just policing, whether 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.359 you're talking about educational attainment, whether you're talking about wealth, 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.800 whether you're talking about uh, where you're talking a maternal mortality, 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.080 whether you're talking about whether you're talking about um, you know, 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:02.000 basic acid allocation. It's race. And it's impossible to understand 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.639 this without disaggregating the importance of it. And so I 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.359 think that the platform for progress is the fact that 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:13.280 we are now having a mature and an honest conversation 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:15.840 about what is it going to take for us to 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.480 move into a better space and a place where we're watching, 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.479 We're watching. It's not just the press populations who are 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:27.000 demanding justice. And that's the power of this moment. So 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.399 many African American men of your age or older have 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.320 told me of their own life experiences where they were 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.080 stopped by place for things that didn't seem appropriate at 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.040 the time to them. Certainly, have you had those run 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.160 ins with the place since you've been an adult? Oh? 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:47.480 Absolutely absolutely, And and you know, and but it's it's 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.640 it's both the fact that we've had these interactions, um, 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.960 and and and the fact that the sound of a 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.320 police siren, it just has a different pitch depending on 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.440