1 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Westmore, a native of Baltimore like me, is a Rhodes Scholar, 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: White House Fellow, Afghanistan War veteran five time book author, 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: and for the last four years has been running the 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: Robin Hood Foundation. He's stepping down soon and has plans 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: to run for governor of Maryland. On this episode, appear 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: to Pere West and I discussed the struggle for racial 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: equality in America, his organization's COVID relief work, and his 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: political ambitions. Welcome West to our show. It is so 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: good to be with you. As always, David. Thank you 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: tell people what the robin Hood Foundation is because recently 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: some people think robin Hood. They think it's stock trading. 12 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: But that's not what you do, right, You're not in 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: that robin Hood, right that, that is not what we do. 14 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: It was amazing during the whole uh Game Stop episode 15 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: I had people were blowing up my inbox and saying, 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: you know, unblock my trades. And I'm like, I had 17 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: no idea how to unblock your trades, but I wish 18 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: you'd luck with that. Um. But the Robin and Foundation 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: is a is a thirty two year old organization with 20 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: an exclusive goal of ending poverty and uh. And it 21 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: was started by Paul Tutor Jones and and Peter Borish 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: and the collection to other people who are actually in 23 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: the investment business. And they started this foundation where they say, 24 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: we want to be able to take uh take metrics 25 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: in best practices and invest in the organizations that we 26 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: think have the highest probability of being able to end 27 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: this scourge of poverty. And they started off making about 28 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: forty dollars worth of investments. Now thirty two years later, 29 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: we have allocated just shy of four billion dollars into 30 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: this work and into this fight. And we fund everything 31 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: from education to housing, transportation, mental health and physical health, 32 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: criminal justice reform. Anywhere where poverty is either the cause 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: or the consequence, we will find fund, build, if necessary, 34 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: all these mechanisms that we think put us on our 35 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: better pathway of creating more equitable society. So how much 36 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: money does Robert Hood giveaway annually? Side? Yeah? So so 37 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: over the you know, when we think about the process 38 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: of the of the last year. Uh, you know, we 39 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: ended up raising around two hundred and forty million dollars. Uh. 40 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: You know, just in the in the past four year 41 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: that I've been I've been the CEO. We've raised over 42 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: two over six hundred and seventy five million dollars. But 43 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: the unique thing about our model is actually this is that, 44 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, there are certain foundations that will say, okay, 45 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: we'll take a portion of our endowment and allocate the 46 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: portion of our endowment into our grandmaking. Robin Hood's endowment 47 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: is essentially zero. Right. There's there's a uniqueness of our 48 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: model is that every dollar we get in it will 49 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: go out within that next within within the time period 50 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: of that next calendar year. And so every year on 51 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: January one, it's like, you know, it's like press go again, 52 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: we raise and then we get the money out in 53 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: the capital as quickly as possible. But you have staff 54 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: who pays for the staff all the administrative costs that 55 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: usually in some foundations that could be uh, you know, 56 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: five or ten percent absolutely if if not, if not more. 57 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: And but you know, the other unique model, the other 58 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: mechanism of Rominan's model is actually the fact that our 59 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: our board actually covers all operational expenses. And your focus 60 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: is New York City? Is that right? Principally it is 61 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: it is even though you know, since our since uh, 62 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: since the time that that we've come on board, we 63 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: really you know, continue to capture the imagination around the 64 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: idea that that while poverty is nowhere near beaten in 65 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: New York City, poverty is not a New York City 66 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: issue either, right, So we we we are a very 67 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: proud place based platform and place based organization. But also, 68 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,679 Speaker 1: for example, two years ago, we launched an initiative called 69 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: Mobility Labs and LABS actually is an acronym that stands 70 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: for Learning and Action BETS and we have found seven 71 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: different communities around the country to really explore the issues 72 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: of urban, rural and suburban poverty and areas that include 73 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: you know, my hometown of Baltimore, Maryland and your hometown 74 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: of Baltimore, Maryland. But COVID must have made it more 75 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: difficult to raise money or to figure out how to 76 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: give it way and to run the the foundation remotely. 77 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: So how did you do that? Yeah, I mean code 78 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: COVID was um COVID in This past year was a 79 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: remarkable year, David, And there was a lot of uncertainty, 80 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: uncertainty about how does what does that mean in terms 81 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: of how we continue to move at a quick and 82 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: a fast pace despite the fact that we weren't going 83 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: to be together. How do we consider the fact that 84 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: we knew how damaging this was going to be on 85 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: our communities and our community partners as as you know, 86 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: we saw eleven years of job growth go away in 87 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: eleven weeks, and we knew which communities would be hit 88 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: hardest by that. It was our communities and so so 89 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: but I I'm so proud of the way that we 90 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: responded and rebounded. You know, we activated uh something called 91 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: the Relief Fund, which was the you know, for only 92 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: the third time in the organization, in the history's organization 93 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: that we've activated the Relief Fund. Once was after nine eleven, 94 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: the other was after Hurricane Sandy, and now the third 95 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: was COVID nineteen where we had a specific a few 96 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: specific focuses. One was supporting the nonprofit sector, which we 97 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: knew was going to take an extraordinary hit, and these 98 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: were all the organizations that were doing the social service 99 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: work in the city and beyond that needed it. And 100 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: the second piece was emergency cash assistance, just getting cash 101 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: into people's hands. We knew that from data that we 102 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: that we supported and funded and helped build that that 103 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: that over around to people could not afford a four 104 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: shock with cash. Well, that shock, that shock was here 105 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: and it was a lot more than four hundred dollars. 106 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: So we knew immediately what you had to do was 107 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: get cash supports into people that needed it most and 108 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: specifically people who we saw government intervention was not touching. 109 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: Let me ask you during uh COVID, many nonprofit organizations 110 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: have suffered because they would say their donors don't feel 111 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: as wealthy as they did before. Did your donors say, 112 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: you know, not right now, I know it's a problem, 113 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: but I don't make as much money as I used to, 114 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: Or did you get more money from your donors? Yeah? 115 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: We we actually saw people who have who stepped up 116 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: signing nificantly, and and and and I think there's a 117 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: couple of things, uh you know that we learned and 118 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: really helped to n package with all that, um you know, 119 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: one was that one was that, you know, the reality 120 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: was that not everyone was getting financially hurt during this time. 121 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: That while you did have certain people who did see 122 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: their incomes their incomes decrease or or in many cases 123 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: their incomes go away, you saw some that actually saw 124 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: their businesses increase and their businesses jump. And part of 125 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: The challenge that we also continue to see was how 126 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: this separation in this divide and the wealth divide, how 127 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: it shows itself. And so you had people who that 128 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: dynamic and that reality showed itself also in philanthrop and giving. 129 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: The second piece was I think we saw a measure 130 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: of human pain and a universality of the human pain 131 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: that was impossible for people not to respond to. Let's 132 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: talk about how you became the head of the Robin 133 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: Hood Foundation, because you're not You've worked in New York, 134 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: but you're from Baltimore, as you mentioned earlier, and you're 135 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: minding your own business this you're in Baltimore, you're living 136 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: in Baltimore. How did they come to hear of you? 137 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: And had you been doing anything like this that would 138 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: have given you the qualification that for them to think 139 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: that you'll be the right person. David, I I call 140 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: myself the most accidental uh foundation head that you could 141 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: ever possibly imagine, you know, because I had no background 142 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: and in in in philanthropy, Uh, you know, I and 143 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: I and I thought to myself when they first approached 144 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: me and they said, uh, you know, uh, they were like, 145 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: you know, we'd like for you to consider being the 146 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: CEO of Robin Hood. And I said, I don't know 147 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. And I said, I'm thinking of 148 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: a bunch of reasons why, but let me give you three. 149 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: And I said, the first reason is, you know I 150 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: live in Baltimore. You know I'm a Marylander and I 151 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: don't plan on moving, and so I don't know how 152 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: i would run a New York based organization when I'm 153 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: here living in Baltimore. The second piece that I said 154 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: to them was, you know was I'm enjoying the work 155 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: that I'm doing here in Maryland. And then the third 156 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: piece was I said, you know I've been I've been 157 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: critical of philanthropy historically, and in fact, the head of 158 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: the search committee was became the chair of the board. 159 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: And a good friend said, you know, we've it's all 160 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: over the internet. We've seen it. We've done our diligence, 161 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: and have you realized you're not that persuasive? Then you 162 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: couldn't persuade them not to go after you. But let's 163 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: talk about your incredible life story. We were born in Baltimore. 164 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: And then, um, your father died when he was when 165 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: you were young? Is that right? He died when I 166 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: was when I was about four years old. He died 167 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: in front of me. Uh, from a from a a 168 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: rare but a but a treatable virus. Your mother said, okay, 169 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: we're gonna move you to New York or she wanted 170 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: to move to New York. Did you move to the 171 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: Bronx then? Yeah, so, so she was having a really 172 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: difficult time with the transition. Um, you know, she became 173 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: a widow in her twenties with three children that she 174 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: was going to raise on her own, and had a 175 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: really difficult time with it, And eventually she called up 176 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: her parents, my grandparents, who lived up in the Bronx. My, 177 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: you're right. My grandfather was a minister in the South Bronx. 178 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: My grandmother was a school teacher for twenty five years 179 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: in South Bronx. Both immigrated to uh, to this country 180 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: and uh and uh it their their house was barely 181 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: big enough for them, but they figured out a way 182 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: to make it big enough for all of us. Sorry, 183 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: she moved up there, and you were the perfect child. 184 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: You never got in trouble and everything worked out where 185 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: I was that right in my in my own mind? Yeah, No, 186 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: I mean I had a that was a really hard 187 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: transition for me. Um. By the time I was in 188 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: seventh grade, I was you know, I was literally kicked out, 189 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: and you know, I found myself hurting people that actually 190 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: did love me, so I could impress people that could 191 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: care less about me. I mean, I felt I first 192 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: time that I was handcuffed was when I was eleven 193 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: years old. And uh. And so by the time I 194 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: was thirteen, after years of threats of sending me away 195 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: to this school or send me away to that school 196 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: or whatever it was, when I was thirteen, my mom 197 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: made good on her threats and she sent me to 198 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: military school. All right, you went to a military school. 199 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: And I assume you weren't dying to go to a 200 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: military school. And it wasn't my was my first choice. 201 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: I straighten you out a little bit or something like that. 202 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: They did, well, you know it. It took a little while, David, 203 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: And you know, I read away. I think I ran 204 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: away five times in the is four d ease? All right, 205 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: So eventually you go to military college. Is that right? 206 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: That's junior college. I did. I graduated from high school 207 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: and then I uh uh, and I was trying to 208 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: figure out what I wanted to do and and Honestly, 209 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: for many people in my life, particularly a lot of 210 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: the men in my life who were my mentors at 211 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: that point in my and the people I admired, they 212 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: all had one thing in common, and that's they all 213 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: wore the uniform of this country. And uh so I 214 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: went to I joined the army, and then I went 215 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: to a military college. All right, But then you eventually 216 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: went to Johns Hopkins, right, And at Johns Hopkins you 217 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 1: must have done reasonably well because you were elected as 218 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: a Rhodes scholar. Now, sometimes people that win Rhodes scholarships, 219 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: they go to Oxford, they get a degree, or they 220 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: don't get a degree. Then they come back and say, Okay, 221 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to Harvard Law School, Yale Law School, 222 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go um into something important like private equity, 223 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: whatever it might be. Right, what did you decide to do? 224 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: How Come you didn't go to Harvard or Yale Law 225 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: store some other grade law school. How come you decided 226 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: to do something? Probably not that many Rhodes scholars were 227 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: doing well. You know, at first I actually went to 228 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, I went to the World of Finance, and 229 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: I was there for a little while, working at Deutsche 230 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: Bank in London, and it was great and it was nice. 231 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: And then I tell you, David, I was. I remember 232 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: getting a phone call uh and I thought I was 233 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: I was brand new, a brand new analyst working on 234 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: deals and uh. It was from my good buddy UM 235 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: at that time, Major Mike Fenzel, who was with the 236 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: eighty second Airborn Division. And he said something me uh 237 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: that he said, uh, so when are you going to 238 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: get into the fight? And that was indicting for me, 239 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: as you know, because I trained, I'm a paratrooper, I 240 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,599 Speaker 1: had gone through gone through all my training with my soldiers, 241 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: and and as as my soldiers are now deploying to 242 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: Afghanistan and deploying to Iraq, you know, I was working 243 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: in in high finance and I literally went back and 244 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: thought about it and prayed on it and and I 245 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: went back and and and called him back up I 246 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: think a couple days later, and said, Mike, I'm in. 247 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: And so I ended up doing a They end up 248 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: doing a by name request for me. Uh. And I 249 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: left finance and I went and I joined up with 250 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: the eighty second Airborne Division. I went actually down to 251 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: Fort Benning, Uh to go uh, to go do my 252 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: training and and and mobed up. And then literally probably 253 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: around nine months after that conversation that I had in 254 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: this stairwell of Deutsche Bank with Mike Fenzel, I was 255 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: getting ready to deploy with the eighty second Airborn to Afganistan. 256 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: All right, so you go to Afghanistan. But did you 257 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: ask for an office job there, something that you could 258 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: be kind of not be shot at or something like that. No, 259 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: not at all. We uh, I was very clear. You know, 260 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 1: I went over and I led a group of paratroopers 261 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: as as a special operations officer. They're working you know, 262 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: information operations psych psy ops, which is you know, psychological operations, 263 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: and we were very much in the field. And you 264 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: know what was interesting is that, uh, so much of 265 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: the conversation at that time two thousand five was was 266 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: iraq Um. You know, we had about a hundred and 267 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: fifty thou groups in the rock at the time. In Afghanistan, 268 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: we only had about seventeen thousand troops. And so I 269 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: remember actually when I got deployment orders for Afghanistan, there 270 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: are a lot of people like who, you know, a 271 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: leash's not going to Iraq uh, not knowing the kind 272 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: of fighting that was going on in Afghanistan at that time. 273 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: And literally within the first days of Afghanistan, Uh, I 274 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: started seeing firsthand, you know, literally you see first firefight, 275 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: you start seeing, um, just what kind of fighting was 276 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: going on in Afghanistan. So how long were you over there? 277 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: I was over for a little, a little shy of 278 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: a year, Monk. Then you came back to the United States? 279 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: Did and what did you do that? Uh? Then I 280 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: actually started working back and now so I did. First 281 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: did a White House Fellowship. Mike Fenstin Gentleman was a 282 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: former White House Fellow, and actually I came back from 283 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: a mission one night and he said, I want you 284 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: to apply for this thing called the White House Fellowship. 285 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: And he said, you know this is it's important for 286 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: people back in Washington to get a first understanding of 287 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: the year that you're having right now, so they can 288 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 1: actually see what's going on on the ground. So I 289 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: applied for a White House Fellowship. I was blessed to 290 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: receive it, and I had the honor of working under 291 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: under Events Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice uh And and 292 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: her team, which was just an unbelievable and and a 293 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: life shifting experience for me to be able to go 294 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: through that. Okay, so you after the White House Fellowship, 295 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: you work for Condoleeza Rice. Did your mother say, now 296 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: can you get a serious job that's a full time 297 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: thing makes some money? Is that what you finally decided 298 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: to do? What did you do? I? I did at 299 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: that time my mother was like, all right, slow down 300 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: and started actually preparing a family. And also I was 301 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: newly married now at that point too, So so now 302 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: you really are starting to think about, all right, what 303 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: are the things that you want to be able to do? 304 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: And I started thinking about the things that I was 305 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: interested in, this in the skill sets that I had had. Uh, 306 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: And so I decided that so maybe I should try 307 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: to give U give finance a shot. And then I 308 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: had to had the pleasure then of working at City 309 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: and working for for a few years at City as 310 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: at first as an analyst associate than a vice president U, 311 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, just working on collections of deals. So you 312 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: moved to New York. I then moved to New York. Yes, yes, 313 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: so we were living in Maryland. I got back Afghanistan 314 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: and moved to New York for a few years. Then 315 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: when did you move back to Baltimore. Yeah. I, UM, 316 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: I remember having a conversation UM with UH, with another 317 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: mentor of mine, person who was running investment banking. Uh 318 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: now is running premier Ray McGuire and UH. And I 319 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: went to him and I said, you know, I think 320 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: I'm I think it's time for me to do something different. 321 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: I just finished actually writing a book called The Other 322 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: Westmore UM, which was an important process in time for 323 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: me just will also be reflective about my own life. 324 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: And UH. And that's when I said, I made the 325 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: decision that I really wanted to leave finance and and 326 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: to go focus on on these issues that are really 327 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: my life's burning issues. Being a Rhodes Scholar and a 328 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: White House fellow isn't enough. You have to write a 329 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: book as well to make everybody else look bad because 330 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: you're doing too many things. So tell people now who 331 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: are watching, who the Other Westmar was. It was. It 332 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: was actually during that same time period of the Rhodes Scholarship. 333 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: Um that that it was right after I got the 334 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: Rhodes Scholarship. Of The Baltimore Sun, which is our hometown paper. UH, 335 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: you know, wrote this article about this local kid who 336 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: just got an award and was now getting ready at 337 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: help to England on this scholarship, and at the same 338 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: time they're writing a whole series of articles about four 339 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: guys who walked into a jewelry store and um and 340 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: attempted to rob the jewly store, and in this botched 341 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: jewelry store robbery ended up murdering an off duty police officer. 342 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: And there was a twelve day national manhunt for these 343 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: four guys, and finally, after twelve days, all four guys 344 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: were caught. One of the people that was eventually caught 345 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: was a guy who's uh we were living in the 346 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: same area, We're around the same age. We both grew 347 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: up in single parent households and his name was also Westmore. 348 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: And I reached out to him and I wrote him 349 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: this note. He wrote me a note back, and eventually 350 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: those that single the note turned to dozens of notes. 351 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: Those dozens of notes turned to dozens of visits. I've 352 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: now known west for for for almost two decades. But um, 353 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: but at the same time I was getting ready how 354 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: to England, he was getting ready to start his life 355 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: sentence in prison. And so the other west Moore was 356 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: a book that really evolved from our years of of 357 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: of of friendship and about these two kids and what 358 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: ends up happening that causes this split amongst these two 359 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: kids with similar backgrounds to include names. So you've now 360 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: written five books. Um, one of them is about Freddy Gray, 361 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: and this was a person who was taken uh into 362 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: a police patty wagon and en route to the police 363 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: station I guess died and cause riots in Baltimore and 364 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: so forth. Um, what is your own view now on 365 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: whether the racial situation in the United States, because of 366 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: examples like Freddie Gray or George Floyd, have gotten worse 367 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 1: than when you were growing up. Where do you see 368 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: any progress being made? Yeah, I mean I I see, 369 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: I see the potential for progress being made. And the 370 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: potential for progress being made is the fact that that 371 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: we're now understanding and talking about this is not just 372 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: isolated incidences, but we're understanding the the the the longevity 373 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: and the lineage of this that that the damage of 374 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: of George Floyd wasn't just the fact that we watched 375 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: a homicide on camera, but it was the fact that 376 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: his name gets added to a much longer lineage of 377 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: names that there's just been no accountability for. Right. But 378 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: it also comes down to the fact that we watch 379 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: how these acts and we watch how these issues of 380 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: systemic racism do show themselves, and not just policing, whether 381 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: you're talking about educational attainment, whether you're talking about wealth, 382 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: whether you're talking about uh, where you're talking a maternal mortality, 383 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: whether you're talking about whether you're talking about um, you know, 384 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: basic acid allocation. It's race. And it's impossible to understand 385 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: this without disaggregating the importance of it. And so I 386 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: think that the platform for progress is the fact that 387 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: we are now having a mature and an honest conversation 388 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: about what is it going to take for us to 389 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: move into a better space and a place where we're watching, 390 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,479 Speaker 1: We're watching. It's not just the press populations who are 391 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: demanding justice. And that's the power of this moment. So 392 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: many African American men of your age or older have 393 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: told me of their own life experiences where they were 394 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: stopped by place for things that didn't seem appropriate at 395 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: the time to them. Certainly, have you had those run 396 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: ins with the place since you've been an adult? Oh? 397 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, And and you know, and but it's it's 398 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: it's both the fact that we've had these interactions, um, 399 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: and and and the fact that the sound of a 400 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: police siren, it just has a different pitch depending on 401 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: what neighborhood you're in, and and and and your heart 402 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: rate speeds up in a different way when you're already 403 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: anticipating the fact that this this encounter could go wrong, 404 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: and and how it could be interpreted by other people. 405 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: But it's also the fact that you know that I 406 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: as a as as as a as a father, now, 407 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: um that I know that I'm going to be forced 408 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: to have conversations that other people are not gonna be 409 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: forced to have with our children. So now you are, 410 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: um gonna be leaving shortly Robin Hood. You're gonna go 411 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: live in Baltimore. Are you going to pursue what I've 412 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: called the higher calling of private equity or are you 413 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: thinking of doing something else. I've read in the newspapers 414 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: that you're thinking of running for governor of Maryland. There's 415 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: there any truth to that. I am exploring running for 416 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: running for governor of Maryland, and um, and you know, 417 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 1: and and I'm thinking about it just in terms of 418 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: I know, I want to focus on on true systems change. 419 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: I think we're just at a very crucial point where 420 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: on issues that I have spent my entire adult life on, 421 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: whether they be ending child poverty, whether it be uh 422 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: eliminating the racial wealth gap, about how do we think 423 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: about education in a fair way that we're actually providing 424 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: real pathways for our students. These are all issues that 425 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 1: are right in front of us right now, and we're 426 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: making generational decisions right now. And so I know the work, 427 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: I know the issues I want to get done. I 428 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: know the work I want to try to do. I'm 429 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: thinking about what's the right platform, um, and I think 430 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: that there is not just a unique potential, you know, 431 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: a lane, but there's a unique way to be able to, 432 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, finally put in any of issues I care about. 433 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: Suppose the President of the United States is watching this 434 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: and he says, Yest, look, running for office, that's tough. 435 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: Why don't you come in. I'll give you a senior 436 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: job in the administration, to become a cabin officer or something. 437 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: Would you go in they buy the administration or you 438 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: really want to run for office and the governorship of Maryland? Yeah, No, 439 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: I mean I have I have a deep admiration for 440 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: all folks who choose to serve in administrations. UM. I 441 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: also know that I'm at the stage of my career 442 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: as well where I know my skill sets uh, and 443 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: I know what I'm good at um and and I'm 444 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: a pretty good executive. I know to run things and 445 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: um and and run large organizations. And I work within government. 446 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: I've worked within and with government my entire career, and 447 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: I know that that for me, this is not about 448 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: I want to go into politics. UH. For me is 449 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: this is about the fact that the executive role who 450 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: actually controls a budget, who is has a chance to 451 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: actually change a destiny for a generation of children and families. 452 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: That that's something makes my heart beat faster, and that's 453 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: what makes me excited. So UM. For people who are watching, uh, 454 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: they would say, Okay, after he got his life together, 455 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: he want to Rhodes scholarship, white House fellowships, written five books, 456 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: heads Robin hood, happily married, two kids. Uh. This is 457 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: a perfect picture. Make us feel that we're not so 458 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,719 Speaker 1: inadequate ourselves. UH. Tell us something you're doing that doesn't 459 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: work out, where you've failed, there's something so we can 460 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: feel that we're just not watching a superhuman We want 461 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: to rutch somebody has mistakes or fail there's something you 462 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: can say you're not good at. There there let me 463 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: tell you something there is uh there. There is plenty 464 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: that I am not good at, and plenty that I've 465 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: failed at. But I tell you one thing about me, David, 466 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: is I'm not afraid to fail um and and that's 467 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: one thing that I think I've really tried to try 468 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: to push on. It's an incredible story. I always like 469 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: to see somebody from Baltimore who's made good, and you 470 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: obviously have. So thanks very much for being with us today, 471 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: and you too. Thank you. It's great to be with you. 472 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You 473 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or 474 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: wherever you listen