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Speaker 1: All right. Jeff Booth, the author of the Price of Tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: a book that has oh Man really sent people into

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Speaker 1: a different direction. Awesome book, Price of Tomorrow and ego

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Speaker 1: death Capital. I don't know, maybe prolific tech investor entrepreneur

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Speaker 1: will see anyway. Jeff, thanks so much for joining me today.

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Speaker 1: Great to see you, my friend man so much to

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Speaker 1: talk about. We were having fun catching up, just talking

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Speaker 1: about fun personal stuff snowboarding and surfing and taking trips

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Speaker 1: and things like that. But I think we're both also

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Speaker 1: thinking that a lot of this bitcoin technology stuff is

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Speaker 1: also fun as well. So I want to dive into

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Speaker 1: that the technology is advancing so fast and sort of

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Speaker 1: imagining where this goes in the world and how we're

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Speaker 1: rebuilding and changing things, how lives can change, how humanity

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Speaker 1: can flourish. That's the exciting part to me. I've often

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Speaker 1: said that the price is sort of the least interesting thing,

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Speaker 1: but let's talk about that for a minute. The Bitcoin

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Speaker 1: ETF is the news. I mean, that is just dominating

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Speaker 1: the news. I don't like that because it's mostly just

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Speaker 1: about an investment kind of a viewpoint of it. The

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Speaker 1: number go up technology, if you will. But you know,

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Speaker 1: as a tech entrepreneur, you know, you have sort of

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Speaker 1: this diffusion of innovation and there's a cas and that

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Speaker 1: has to be crossed. Maybe we're doing that. What's your

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Speaker 1: thoughts on the bitcoin and t F. Let's dig into

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Speaker 1: that a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, probably similar to you. I think if you think

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Speaker 2: about how many people understand bitcoin right now in the world,

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Speaker 2: and you should say, say that's a one percent, and

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Speaker 2: then how many people really understand what it means and

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Speaker 2: how things are in a change to it. We can

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Speaker 2: explore some of that through this podcast if you want,

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Speaker 2: but that would be probably five percent of the one

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Speaker 2: percent of so the how small a number of people

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Speaker 2: actually understand what's happening here in this asset class. And

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Speaker 2: then what's happening is the technology is being built on

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Speaker 2: top of this asset class and what's going to happen

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Speaker 2: what it does to the existing system such a tiny

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Speaker 2: piece of the overall market that no wonder people are confused.

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Speaker 2: And so now if you put in perspective with that,

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Speaker 2: with what the ETF is doing, it is bringing more

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Speaker 2: awareness to this asset class. And what ends up happening

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Speaker 2: in this asset class is people start to see, wait,

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Speaker 2: I'm living in a system with manipulated money, a manipulated ledger,

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Speaker 2: and that's the reason why prices are going up. And

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Speaker 2: then they learn a little bit about bitcoin, and maybe

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Speaker 2: they learn about it because they think, Okay, that'll protect me,

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Speaker 2: It'll give me a hedge against the system that's failing.

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Speaker 2: Over time, and then some of those people, over time

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Speaker 2: learn more and more about it and start shifting more

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Speaker 2: and more of their attention into it as they understand

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Speaker 2: it more. So if you just look through that lens

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Speaker 2: of the ATF, you'd say it's great. It's just it's

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Speaker 2: marketing that is going to bring a whole bunch more

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Speaker 2: of awareness about what's happen happening to money and how

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Speaker 2: you can protect yourself from money being debased. And people

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Speaker 2: are going to protect themselves because of that. From there,

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Speaker 2: the question is how many people remove to self custody

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Speaker 2: and as well, and I think you have to look

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Speaker 2: at some of the things that you see in the

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Speaker 2: world today, is behind the scenes being coordinated and whether

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Speaker 2: they are or not, I think it's worth thinking that way.

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Speaker 2: And why I say that is is if you if

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Speaker 2: you said human nature, if you could if you could

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Speaker 2: get if you could steal the productivity that should flow

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Speaker 2: to society in the form of lower prices. By controlling money.

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Speaker 2: Human nature says that will always happen, right, Greed will

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Speaker 2: make that happen no matter what, and we've always lived

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Speaker 2: so all throughout.

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Speaker 1: His will make prices drop.

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Speaker 2: You're saying no, no, no, So this natural state of

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Speaker 2: a free market is deflationary, so there is no inflation

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Speaker 2: over a long enough time period because what we do

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Speaker 2: we use things that give us more value. Why you're

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Speaker 2: using riverside right now app to create this podcast is

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Speaker 2: it gives you more value. And if something competed with

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Speaker 2: riverside that didn't give you more value and it costs more,

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Speaker 2: you wouldn't use You wouldn't use it. If something gave

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Speaker 2: you more value and costs less, you would use it.

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Speaker 2: So everything we use creates more use. It gives us

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Speaker 2: more value, and that means the natural state has to

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Speaker 2: be deflationary. Of a free market. The only reason things

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Speaker 2: are inflationary short of short term cycles, right with the

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Speaker 2: supply constraint or something. But then what ends up happening

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Speaker 2: is the free mark. Because of the margins of that

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Speaker 2: supply constraint, entrepreneurs attack it and create a different way

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Speaker 2: of a model to great abundance. And so the natural

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Speaker 2: state over a longer term is always of a free

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Speaker 2: market is deflationary. We've always lived in the opposite, and

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Speaker 2: we live in the opposite because effectively, if you could

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Speaker 2: steal a small amount of money from everybody over time,

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Speaker 2: you can aggregate a massive control for doing nothing. So

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Speaker 2: human society it always has been wired. If you could

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Speaker 2: game it, you would, right. That's why gold gets corrupted,

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Speaker 2: That's why you fractionalize systems. That's why eventually you go

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Speaker 2: back to you go to war, because it breaks world

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Speaker 2: so much that then somebody says, I'm going to reset

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Speaker 2: the system on a new standard, and then it goes

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Speaker 2: through that again. So natural state is free. We've always

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Speaker 2: lived in the opposite. That means every history book that

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Speaker 2: anybody has ever written has this error code in it.

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Speaker 2: It also has the error code because we've never had

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Speaker 2: something decentral lives and secure that could be decentralized and

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Speaker 2: secure throughout time, and the winners write the history books.

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Speaker 2: So it means all of our previous history to this

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Speaker 2: point before bitcoin was built with this aero code. And

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Speaker 2: so it makes total sense that people are confused with

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Speaker 2: what this new insight drives forward rather than looking through

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Speaker 2: the past. It makes perfect sense. Now what are we

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Speaker 2: up against? What does bitcoin up against? If you have

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Speaker 2: a system that's ten thousand times bigger, that gains its

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Speaker 2: power by stealing yours, by stealing money, then what is

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Speaker 2: it up against. It's up against all human action doing that.

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to get in specifically how that works.

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Speaker 2: And it is also up against some coordination of you

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Speaker 2: could say, the ETF. If the ETF and what Warren

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Speaker 2: is doing at the same time to try to make

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Speaker 2: self self custodial illegal, right, and the ETF can short

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Speaker 2: and create fractionalized on top of bitcoin and then acquire

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Speaker 2: more bitcoin, then you could say, and it's worth thinking

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Speaker 2: that that could happen because then you're immune from it.

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Speaker 2: But if that was coordinated, I'm not saying it is,

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Speaker 2: but if that was coordinated, what would happen in that

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Speaker 2: world is a whole bunch of people would trade their

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Speaker 2: bitcoin or the paper bitcoin in is the ets acquired

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Speaker 2: more and more bitcoin, and you could create that leverage

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Speaker 2: to suppress bitcoin's price, just like just like gold has

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Speaker 2: been suppressed, right, And you could create effectively unlimited leverage

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Speaker 2: in that system over time and paper contracts to bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: But for people that are aired of that, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying some of that won't happen in the short

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Speaker 2: term because an office action by a Warren making it

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Speaker 2: will drive fear in the market. At the same time

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Speaker 2: people could short it could drive price in the short

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Speaker 2: term going down. But what would that then, Cause there's

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Speaker 2: too many people in the world right now, and bitcoin

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Speaker 2: is self custodial, and every year it gets more decentralized

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Speaker 2: and secure. There's too many people in the world that

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Speaker 2: have looked behind the curtain. And once they've looked behind

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Speaker 2: the curtain and how money works, they're never going back.

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Speaker 2: And so you probably run a node. I run a node.

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Speaker 2: I'm not selling my bitcoin, and every time price falls

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Speaker 2: we actually I buy it anyways. But there's more and

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Speaker 2: more people bitcoiners that understand this that are going to

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Speaker 2: take that into self custody. So the reaction to the

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Speaker 2: system driving to financialize this creates more self self custody

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Speaker 2: at certain prices, and as that happens, eventually, if it

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Speaker 2: was coordinated, if there was something again not saying there is,

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Speaker 2: but if it was and that was an attack factor

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Speaker 2: for a bitcoin. What would it end up happening is

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Speaker 2: it would cause the biggest short squeeze the world's ever

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Speaker 2: seen eventually, and on that short squeeze would liquidate financial

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Speaker 2: players that were not acting with integrity or honesty. Because

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Speaker 2: bitcoin doesn't care. It's imposing fair rules on society rather

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Speaker 2: than it could care less. It could care less about

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Speaker 2: you and me everything else. It's just imposing that discipline.

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Speaker 1: Wow, a lot to unpack right there. I was making

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Speaker 1: some notes. We can come back to them. I asked

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Speaker 1: you if to clarify something, and it wrong, but it

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Speaker 1: got me thinking. I said, so, it's it's greed that

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Speaker 1: drives prices down. You said no, But if you think

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Speaker 1: about it, in a true free market, if we could

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Speaker 1: stay free and not be co opted and gamed. So

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Speaker 1: in a true free market, it almost would be greed

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Speaker 1: that would drive prices down, because if I saw you

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Speaker 1: were making a killing in a certain category, my greed

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Speaker 1: would say, well, I want to step in in front

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Speaker 1: of Jeff and I'll make a little bit less, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so go ahead and keep going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's just you know, it's interesting when you kind

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Speaker 1: of flip it on its head, and you have to

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Speaker 1: kind of put that in sort of parentheses in a

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Speaker 1: free market, because you know, what we're being told by

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Speaker 1: the leaders is it's greed that's driving prices up. It's

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Speaker 1: these greedy gas stations that drive prices, et cetera. But

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Speaker 1: in a free market, greed would actually drive prices down.

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Speaker 1: It'd be the opposite.

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Speaker 2: We only get paid. We get paid. Entrepreneurs get paid

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Speaker 2: when they create more value for others, period, right, And

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Speaker 2: and that's a competitive process. And so they see and

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Speaker 2: in a free market, that competitive process continues to attack.

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Speaker 2: And where would an entrepreneur go. Would you go to

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Speaker 2: create the next calculator app? Yeah, it's already free or

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Speaker 2: would you or would you go create? Or would you

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Speaker 2: go attack an industry that had high margins?

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Speaker 1: Of course, agree, it makes perfect sense.

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Speaker 2: So the free market is constantly under attack. There is

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Speaker 2: no monopoly in a free market, Yeah, there.

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Speaker 1: Can't be so in in you know, in this diffusion

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Speaker 1: of innovation, you know this bell curve, and you have

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Speaker 1: sort of the innovators, the true believers, and then you

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Speaker 1: sort of have this chasm. And the chasm is where

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Speaker 1: something has to shift, you know, in the mindset of

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Speaker 1: people to sort of bring that early majority in. And

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Speaker 1: there's lots of things that could cause that shift to happen,

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Speaker 1: that that chasm to be crossed, if you will. I

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Speaker 1: think the ETF is a big piece of that. So

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Speaker 1: all these people who think, well, it's just magic internet money.

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Speaker 1: I don't trust it, it's a scam at the tulip

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Speaker 1: it's whatever, it's too difficult, I don't you know, throw

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Speaker 1: it fill in the blank. All of a sudden they're like, well, shoot,

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Speaker 1: if my financial advisor tells me to buy it, if

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Speaker 1: Blackrock has it, if you know whatever, And so that

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Speaker 1: creates the chasm to be crossed. And also there's also

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Speaker 1: another paradigm. And so I gave a presentation a big

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Speaker 1: buck Boom and packpitcoin on you know, technological Revolutions. I

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Speaker 1: talk about him quite quite often. And I got this

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Speaker 1: from this book Technological Innovations and Financial Capital by Carlata Perez,

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Speaker 1: and she talks about sort of this change and the

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Speaker 1: reason the things that these technologies have to do in

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Speaker 1: order to sort of have this revolution, and some of

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Speaker 1: that is in the mindset and so sort of we

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Speaker 1: have this normalcy bias, it's recentcy bias. Hey, money always

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Speaker 1: has to go up. Hey, this is just how it goes,

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Speaker 1: and so that has to change. But there's people that

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Speaker 1: are entrenched in that that don't want that to happen,

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Speaker 1: and so we have to sort of fight against that.

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Speaker 1: That's sort of this orange pill movement, if you will.

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Speaker 1: But you mentioned one more thing, and is that Ledwig

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Speaker 1: Guan Misis called it the crackup boom. And then he said,

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Speaker 1: and then suddenly the people realize that inflation is both

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Speaker 1: permanent and intentional. Yeah, so all of a sudden, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe in the last ten years, inflation has been sort

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Speaker 1: of thrown into the forefront of things. The Fed is

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Speaker 1: sitting there saying, our goal is to get it back down.

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Speaker 1: We only want two percent. Oh so it's intentional that

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Speaker 1: you want to steal from me, and I think people

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Speaker 1: are doing that. And so sort of bringing this together,

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Speaker 1: that chasm not only being brought sort of legitimized by

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Speaker 1: Wall Street jumping in, but then also the chasm being

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Speaker 1: crossed where people are suddenly waking up to the fact

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Speaker 1: that inflation is permanent, and you know, to the point

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Speaker 1: that you that you've made I think everybody realizes I

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Speaker 1: have to go protect my wealth and when you add

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Speaker 1: those two things together, I mean it's a pretty big

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Speaker 1: hopefully it'll be a pretty big shift to get people

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Speaker 1: to sort of see that new world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so think about yourself and let's let's go why

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Speaker 2: does this exist? And how much do you know about bitcoin?

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Speaker 2: And how much of your time is in bitcoin? And

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Speaker 2: then play that forward and how and just that say

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Speaker 2: how much was it three or four or five years

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Speaker 2: ago as you started to understand, and how much is

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Speaker 2: it now? And how much will it be? And then

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Speaker 2: let's walk through how this works and so how this works.

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Speaker 2: So we've already we've already made a point. The free

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Speaker 2: market is deflationary, right, The natural state of the free

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Speaker 2: market is deflationary. So that means every single person that

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Speaker 2: says yep and then goes on carries on their life

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Speaker 2: in the other world, is making the other world stronger

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Speaker 2: to their own to their own demise. Every single the

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Speaker 2: amount of time that you're measuring from the other system,

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Speaker 2: if you can say yes, and prices fall to the

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Speaker 2: marginal cost of production over time, and technology is a

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Speaker 2: lever on that, and it's an exponential lever that makes

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Speaker 2: prices fall faster, then what you're doing by trying to

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Speaker 2: capture wealth in the existing system. All all of the

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Speaker 2: things in the existing system are making everything worse for you.

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Speaker 2: And let me just show you how that works. So,

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Speaker 2: so you know this mark that the magnificent seven the

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Speaker 2: tech companies. Without the return of the tech companies, SMP

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Speaker 2: would be negative, right, Okay, So what everybody does? Everybody

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Speaker 2: you do. I'm not saying you do, but many people

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Speaker 2: listening to this call will store their wealth in the

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Speaker 2: tech tech companies, and then they'll use the tech companies

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Speaker 2: that are using AI to reduce the labor because they

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Speaker 2: use the tech companies because if they don't use the

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Speaker 2: tech companies, they don't get the same value. And so

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Speaker 2: the tech companies are creating this artificial and general intelligence

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Speaker 2: the magni that is reducing the labor. And you should

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Speaker 2: have a normal market, you would probably have about five

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Speaker 2: percent deflation per year compound and getting more and more.

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Speaker 2: So even at that, if you were at zero percent inflation,

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Speaker 2: you'd be getting five percent stolen from you a year.

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Speaker 2: And you go and spend more of your own money

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Speaker 2: trying to protect your money from losing value by putting

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Speaker 2: it in a tech company, and they use that at

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Speaker 2: creating the monopoly and reducing more and more labor to

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Speaker 2: make to drive that faster to give you more value

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Speaker 2: fair And so then you say, well, how is this

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Speaker 2: monopoly doing this? But if they increase their labor rate

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Speaker 2: and much more or much more labor, you wouldn't use

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Speaker 2: their service anymore. Somebody else would beat them. So and

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Speaker 2: then the pension funds that holds your retirement are all

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Speaker 2: indexed to the same thing. So they're driving more and

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Speaker 2: more money into the thing that's driving for faster and

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Speaker 2: faster deflation, and you're part of your Every single person

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Speaker 2: in the world is trying to store their wealth in

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Speaker 2: those things because if they don't, they'll lose more money faster.

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Speaker 2: Now let's look at the same thing on bitcoin. Bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: All of those companies priced in bitcoin are losing value,

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Speaker 2: every one of them. All your houses, all your real

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Speaker 2: estate is losing value against bitcoin, all of it. But

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Speaker 2: most people are storing their wealth within the system that's debasing,

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Speaker 2: making it stronger, thinking they're winning on a losing game

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Speaker 2: and bitcoin could care less. It's so this system is

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Speaker 2: based on a manipulated ledger, and it's manipulating currency units,

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Speaker 2: and everybody and your voting in that system to who

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Speaker 2: should win, who should get more of the manipulated currency

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Speaker 2: units to put to their group or the other group,

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Speaker 2: And society is breaking everywhere because of this. But every

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Speaker 2: single person, in fact, many of the podcast you listen to,

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Speaker 2: are yelling at the same system, and they don't know

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Speaker 2: they're making it stronger by yelling at it. Right, all

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Speaker 2: of their actions are making it stronger. And so why

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Speaker 2: we've created ego death and why I just just tired

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Speaker 2: of it. I just said it's nonsense. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: spend instead of ninety percent of my time in the

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Speaker 2: system that was creating this, I wanted to spend ninety

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Speaker 2: five hundred percent of my time in the system that

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Speaker 2: was repricing it.

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Speaker 1: But if we so let's let's take that, we'll transition

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Speaker 1: to ego death. What ego death is a fund that

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Speaker 1: you're in that invests into bitcoin companies that are building

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Speaker 1: this new world. But let's just take that previous example.

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Speaker 1: I had a good conversation with a good friend, mutual friend,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Song, many conversations. We ended up at a lot

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Speaker 1: of places at the same time, but in la PEC

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin and we were talking about this specifically, and you know,

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Speaker 1: he's such a bitcoin purist, Maximus that you should just

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Speaker 1: buy bitcoin and not invest in anything. But I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know, who's going to go build this thing? Right,

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Speaker 1: we have we have to invest our money. But back

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Speaker 1: to kind of the point that you just made, right,

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Speaker 1: So we're investing into Facebook to make our lives better, Right,

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Speaker 1: We're getting value from that. It makes my communication cheaper, easier, faster,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. So I have more value there. But I'm

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Speaker 1: putting my money into that system that's causing I'm perpetuating

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Speaker 1: that system that's actually causing me to have this inflation

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Speaker 1: of force.

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Speaker 2: And then I yell at other Then I yell at

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Speaker 2: other people because it's their fault.

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Speaker 1: Right, But but I do it. But if I'm putting

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Speaker 1: my if I'm investing my money into Facebook in order

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Speaker 1: to protect my value, I'm hoping that Facebook is going

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Speaker 1: to go look faster than the inflation that is debasing

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Speaker 1: my value at the same time, right.

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Speaker 2: And it's not it's it's it's not it's going up

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Speaker 2: at the same rate. So if you look at the monitor,

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Speaker 2: if you look at the monetary easing of about the

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Speaker 2: liquidity about eight and a half percent per year compounded

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Speaker 2: and then so it or maybe some of those companies

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Speaker 2: beat it for a fair a short period of time,

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Speaker 2: but over the long term, you're just matching your same

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Speaker 2: as housing, right, so exactly the same as housing.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the S and P five hundred is

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Speaker 1: like a perfect proxy for inflation. I think, I think

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Speaker 1: what we're saying, and the media and US real estate

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Speaker 1: is as well totally. However, there are scarce assets that

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Speaker 1: then outperform inflation. So for example, the median US real

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Speaker 1: estate went up about forty percent, Austin, the fastest growing

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Speaker 1: city of the United States for the last twenty years,

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Speaker 1: went up about forty percent, but homes on the lake

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Speaker 1: Lakefront Lake Lakefront on Lake Travis went up one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty percent. Yeah, right, So sort of the S

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Speaker 1: and P five hundred, which the manuf is the seven

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Speaker 1: sort of make up and drive that have kept up

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Speaker 1: with inflation. A few will outperform it for certain periods

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Speaker 1: of time if you're a really good exactly right, exactly okay,

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Speaker 1: But then contrast that too, Okay. So I am an

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Speaker 1: investor or I'm just a regular person. I'm a doctor

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Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm making money I have savings. I want

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Speaker 1: to protect that savings from BE and D based and

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Speaker 1: so I can put it into Nvidia Book et cetera,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully that will at least keep up with it,

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Speaker 1: potentially beat it. Or I could put it into x

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Speaker 1: y Z bitcoin company, which is also a tech company,

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Speaker 1: which is also hopefully going to beat it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so what's the million?

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Speaker 2: So what's different here is the nine hundred trillion dollars

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Speaker 2: of global wealth. Imagine you have a percentage of that ledger, right,

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Speaker 2: and you could say, if Mark Moss has a million dollars,

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Speaker 2: you could just calculate exactly what percent you have of

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Speaker 2: that ledger If that ledger is one point five quadrillion tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: because there's a whole bunch more manipulation of money and

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Speaker 2: you're part of that ledger doesn't go up by that

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Speaker 2: mount you lost money, but you didn't know you lost money.

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Speaker 2: That's what That's what you're living in, and that's what

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Speaker 2: everyone is pricing their is en And when they naturally

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Speaker 2: say what is bitcoin price in this ledger, they're making

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Speaker 2: that calculation error. When I say it's saying decentralized and

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Speaker 2: secure on the on the base ledge, then it is inevitable.

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Speaker 2: If it stay is decentralized and secure, it reprices everything

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Speaker 2: in the nine hundred trillion. So you could say, how

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Speaker 2: much of a percentage of twenty one million do I

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Speaker 2: have for all of time? And compare and contrast how

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Speaker 2: much do you need for your living lifestyle? If you

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Speaker 2: can hold it decentralized and secure, it will reprice everything else.

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Speaker 2: So then then your next question, I think, is why

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Speaker 2: would I invest if I can invest in that asset? Essentially,

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Speaker 2: if I can own a new if I can own

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Speaker 2: the new Internet, not just the value on top of it,

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Speaker 2: but I can own a piece of the new Internet,

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Speaker 2: and all future value accrues to me. Or is said

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Speaker 2: another way that I like to say it is if

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Speaker 2: prices should fall to the marginal cost of production, if

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Speaker 2: the free market is is deflationary, then the anything that

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Speaker 2: can measure it as a fixed currency, So in other words,

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Speaker 2: all things forever if you measure in bitcoin will fall

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Speaker 2: in price at the same rate they should fall in.

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Speaker 1: Price as long as it stays.

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Speaker 2: And so so now, and the only reason I say,

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Speaker 2: if it stays decentralized and secure, I think it's almost inevitable,

404
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Speaker 2: or points something one probability that something could break it.

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Speaker 2: Why I say if it stays decentralized and secure is

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Speaker 2: so people do their own homework on why that's inevitable.

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Speaker 2: So so because they need to understand this asset class

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Speaker 2: is different than anything they've ever seen, and they're through

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Speaker 2: the through it the Fiat machine of manipulating money, they

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Speaker 2: won't see what's unique. They have to do the work

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Speaker 2: because all of the all of the information that is

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Speaker 2: in the Fiat machine would try to stop this from

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Speaker 2: from working.

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Speaker 1: So then, first of all, for the listeners, of course,

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Speaker 1: Jeff and I agree on this. I've been an advisor

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Speaker 1: for Trambill Venture Partners for about two years, so I

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Speaker 1: look at all the bitcoin only VC stuff, and I'm

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Speaker 1: a partner with a Bitcoin Opportunity fund with our mutual

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Speaker 1: friends James and David and Larry and all those guys.

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Speaker 1: So we're also investing in the bitcoin space as well.

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Speaker 1: But just to kind of understand this point for everybody

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Speaker 1: who's listening, and even for myself, to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: so we go back to sort of investing into nvidiaoir

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Speaker 1: Facebook and hoping to beat inflation. But I'm perpetuating the

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Speaker 1: same system if you will so whatever, or I could

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Speaker 1: invest into X y z bitcoin company anchor watch, I

427
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Speaker 1: mean whatever, you name it, right, you got on the line.

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Speaker 1: The mechanism is the same. I'm still investing my money,

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Speaker 1: whether that be dollars or bitcoin into a company hoping

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Speaker 1: to beat inflation. I'm guessing what you're saying is the

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Speaker 1: difference is how I'm measuring that money. Am I measuring

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Speaker 1: in US dollars or am measuring my return in bitcoin?

433
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? So in Vidia they're free cash flows or in

434
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 2: the dollars that are being deluded, And so your your

435
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 2: your entire investment is in the debasing currency, and in

436
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 2: this it is not so if you can if you're

437
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: creating So so what I think is happening in our

438
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: companies and some of the companies if you see that

439
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: they and by the way, and this isn't just our

440
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 2: fund Let's say there's lots of funds in this space,

441
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 2: at least the bitcoin only funds that understand this your venture.

442
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 2: You can actually get venture returns on top of a

443
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: venture asset.

444
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: So you're getting bitcoin returns as opposed.

445
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: To exactly so our company, our companies are are by

446
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: creating the enabling foundations of the things that just similar

447
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 2: to the like the Internet. But if if you owned

448
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: a piece of the Internet and then and then there

449
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: returns and we're collect more bitcoin because of the value

450
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 2: that they were creating. And if you see some of

451
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: the rates of the growth of the companies measure in

452
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 2: their balance, sheees moving up by acquiring more bitcoin because

453
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: there because it's denominated in that and their transactions are

454
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: based in it. You you have an underlying asset that

455
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: I like to look at it as it's not going

456
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: up forever. All prices are falling against it forever. But

457
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 2: now you're collecting more of that underlying asset, so you

458
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 2: can by by having successful companies, so you I believe

459
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: we're going to have venture returns on top of a

460
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: venture type asset.

461
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: Right.

462
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 2: It's like so when I think about that, I think,

463
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: and I can't believe everybody is not here. I can't

464
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: believe there's not more people understanding this because because I

465
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 2: can prove what I just said, because it's repriced every

466
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 2: other asset class over the less the credit.

467
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: The critic could say over what time frame, Right, obviously

468
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: over the over the last fifteen years. It certainly has

469
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: over the last two years, it hasn't, right, So.

470
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: But any four year any four year cycle, it has, right.

471
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: And obviously as a venture investor, like we're thinking long

472
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: term seven to ten years typically at a minimum, right,

473
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: So to your point, every four years it has. And

474
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: so if you're thinking, and I say all the time,

475
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're if you're if you're marketing your

476
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: portfolio market on a monthly basis or a quarterly basis, like,

477
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: you're never going to make it. Like Charlie Munger said,

478
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: the big money is made not in the buying and

479
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: the selling, but in the waiting, right, So waiting for

480
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: that to develop.

481
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and keep and play and play that forward. But

482
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: we have a we have a system that you're in

483
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: measuring your returns every every day in the other system

484
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 2: because it forces you to do so, because it's debasing.

485
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: So people are trying to store their wealth and most

486
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: of their wealth is stored in the system that's debasing.

487
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 2: It's it's insane, right. And I think when I think

488
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 2: about risk return, I think even Sam is an entrepreneur.

489
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: I think the best entrepreneurs are actually aren't risk takers

490
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: like people think they are. I think they're really great

491
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: risk allicators, and the difference is they look at the

492
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,959
Speaker 2: risk of where they are now versus the new and

493
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 2: what they're going to do. And so today when people

494
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 2: are looking at bitcoin, they're looking at the risk of

495
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 2: the new and they haven't done the work to understand it,

496
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 2: and they think their own system has no risk when

497
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 2: all of the risk is in the existing system. So

498
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: what you're having is terrible risk gllicators. And then as

499
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: they get more as a system paralyzes them through more

500
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: fear right, and you hear the WF and they yell

501
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: at it all the time, and all of these things

502
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: are capturing their attention, making them even worse risk galicators

503
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: because they're trying to protect their money in the exact

504
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: same that's thing that's staying being debased.

505
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: Right, So bitcoin is repricing everything. I can go back

506
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: another quote from Letwoo Bonemesis, and I believe he said

507
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: that in economics, there's no such thing as a constant,

508
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: and so we always had like this commodity money, and

509
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: so whether we're measuring things in oil or gold, there's

510
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,959
Speaker 1: no constant there, like the supply, the demand, the technology

511
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: changes that all constantly. But now we have it right

512
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: now Bitcoin has a fixed, limited supply, So for the

513
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: first time we have a neutral asset that does have

514
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: a fixed supply. So he was right at the time.

515
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: Now it's different. And so to your point that you're making,

516
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: it's starting to reprice everything. And if you have a

517
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: long enough vision and you think at least in four

518
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: year cycles, if not longer, it is it has been

519
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: historically been repricing things, you feel strong that it will

520
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: as do I. It looks like even Larry Fink thinks

521
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: it will as well, which is pretty interesting. But there's

522
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: one thing that you keep saying, nothing's guaranteed in this life,

523
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,959
Speaker 1: and you keep saying, if it stays decentralized and secure.

524
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: I listen to you sort of debate this out with

525
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: George Gammon, another friend of mine, and he has a

526
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: little bit hard time sort of wrapping his head around

527
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: that part, I think. But you had to keep saying

528
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: over and over and over that decentralized and insecure, So

529
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: that seems to be the risk factor in your mind.

530
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: So purpose this is almost certain as long as those

531
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: two things stay true. Ye.

532
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: So and if you say what George would say, and

533
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: George is fantastic, and I think, really really sharp on

534
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: how the existing system works and sharp on history as

535
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: well of how these things got co opted. And he

536
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: would he would use, well, human nature won't let it.

537
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: It will centralize it. And the question I have is how.

538
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: How?

539
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: Because because as more people understand this, and remember this

540
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: is a different this is different than gold. It can't

541
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: get centralized gold is so you can self custody this

542
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 2: asset yourself, and you can run your own node. And

543
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: so what he says is, well, governments will, we will

544
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 2: take it over. And the question you ask is how into.

545
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: To what end?

546
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: Because because let's let's just imagine this place forward as

547
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 2: it's plain, because you really have to think about if

548
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 2: that's true, what would specifically happen to be able to

549
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: break that. And so the governments, let's say they're going

550
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: to print more money to be able to make their currency,

551
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: and they're going to lock the doors and they're going

552
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 2: to Janet Yellen and Warren and everything else, and they're

553
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: going to conspire and make bitcoin self custody illegal in

554
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: the US. So if that happened, and it happened all

555
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: over the world at the same time, yes, then that

556
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: would slow It would for a time that price would

557
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: fall a bitcoin. But what it would signal to the

558
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: world everyone is you better move faster on bitcoin, and

559
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: as price fell, more and more people would self custody.

560
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: And I think it would be just like in other

561
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: regions where you lock down a currency and you say

562
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 2: there's capital controls on my currency. The currency goes underground

563
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 2: and there's a black market currency that actually moves faster

564
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: and it is the real price. The free market is

565
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: the real price, and you have a ponzie. So every

566
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: single one of these things can't actually happen by the

567
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: free market unless everyone in the world says, yep, I

568
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: want to live in a cage. Right, nobody would do that.

569
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: It just wouldn't happen. So and then, so now let's

570
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: say that what does it look like to George's point

571
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: or to other people who question, so, what that would

572
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 2: mean is as the currency units inflate faster, Bitcoin is

573
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: still re pricing the world. Right and then and then

574
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: what ends up happening is every every country competes for

575
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: labor and capital, the best people in investment, and so

576
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: as it starts to happen around the world, why would

577
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: it look any different in the future than it's always

578
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: looked competing for labor and capital. It's just more of

579
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: the bitcoiners will have the capital, yeah, and more of

580
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 2: the great talent will be on the bitcoin layer, building

581
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: kind of abundance for the future on an on at sledger,

582
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: which would be high demand in regions that say we're

583
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: going to we're going to build a free market here.

584
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: The game theory, right, and that the chance, the odds,

585
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: the probability of all the governments of the world all

586
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: coopting and deside at the same time is very slim.

587
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: I thought it would be actually impossible. Obviously, seeing what

588
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: happened during the COVID pandemic lockdown made me unfortunately think

589
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: a little bit. Otherwise, it was pretty well coordinated across

590
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: the world simultaneously, so that that was a that was

591
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: that was a shock to my thinking. So I have

592
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: to kind of keep that in mind. But game theory

593
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: is there. And so to your point, and if they

594
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 1: did it in the West, if you will Canada, the US,

595
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: you know, UK, et cetera, you still might have El

596
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: Salvador or you know, Argentina now at this point or whatever,

597
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: and then they're going to attract the best and the

598
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: brightest kind of to the point that you're making so

599
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: you sort of have that, but maybe some of the

600
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: other risk factors if we just kind of want to

601
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: play this out a little bit, because again trying to

602
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: think it, will it stay decentralized and secure? You know,

603
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: potentially you know, Blackrock taking over Bitcoin Core developers putting

604
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: you know, bad malicious code in something like that. Now

605
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: we run notes, so we don't have to accept those updates, right,

606
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: so so.

607
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so, but again I think all of these

608
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 2: things like that there were used to thinking these giant

609
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 2: organizations that control us, and they're going to control us,

610
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 2: and you make them stronger with your own thinking by

611
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: allowing that to happen. And the people that are moving

612
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: to Bitlin and spending their time in this and by

613
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 2: the way, I'm not even talking about what's being built

614
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: on top. If you were some of those people trying

615
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: to do this, you have no idea what's coming, no

616
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: idea how fast this is exploding. If you think about

617
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: fetiment and some of this stuff, the regulation is chasing

618
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: where this might have been four or five, six, eight

619
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: years ago.

620
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, they can't keep up, not where it is today.

621
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 2: And what's happening and is the more and more people

622
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: who understand why freedom matters start to vote with their

623
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: time and money and energy for freedom instead of saying

624
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: I can't do anything because those other people are going

625
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 2: to control me. They take the power from those people.

626
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 2: That's the repricing event that is happening. So Blackrock looks

627
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 2: so big because because our pension funds hold their money

628
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: into black Rock, because Blackrock has inside ball on the

629
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 2: financial system and it's the only way they can have

630
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 2: a return because of the inside ball. And without inside

631
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 2: ball and the financial system, black Rock gets smaller. And

632
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: where does the money go to. It goes to you.

633
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 2: It goes to Bitcoin holders that are repricing black Rock too.

634
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 2: And so, for the life of me, I can't understand

635
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 2: people that say I can't do this and I'm going

636
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: to spend all my time for fear. Well, they make

637
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: the thing that they want to happen they don't want

638
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: to happen happen faster to them. It's ludicrous where they

639
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: are a node in the network. They're a node in

640
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: this network, and good luck convincing me otherwise.

641
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 1: And they're literally giving money to a company that's working

642
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 1: against their own best interess.

643
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 2: We're working. And I'm not talking about in the ETF,

644
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about anything else, but through the pension fund,

645
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 2: through all of their actions and everything else they're there.

646
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,959
Speaker 2: All of the people at w UF right now right

647
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 2: are funded by this extraction of wealth from the same

648
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: people that are yelling at it.

649
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, think about it. Yeah, to your point, all

650
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: the people that are online screaming, to your point that

651
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: you're making, screaming about how bad this is, they want

652
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: to take away our rights all these things. Well, why

653
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: are you giving them your money? Your money is sitting

654
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: in there in their pension fund, in their account, and

655
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: that's what they're using to go to fly to Davos

656
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: to make these types of regulations.

657
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: In your in your housing that you're trying to do that,

658
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: in all of these instruments that you're trying to do that,

659
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 2: you're making it stronger, and then yelling at them saying saying,

660
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: well you are so it's not there is no day,

661
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: it's us and if you take your time and move

662
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: it to the system, it's going to happen. Anyways, This

663
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: new system is expanding because once this insight is has

664
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 2: found as free, people want to build into a free market.

665
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 2: And allow what the free market should look like. It's

666
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: going to impose that because there's a wall of people

667
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: moving into that, spending their time and energy. And that's

668
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: why I just cannot believe I get to do this. Yeah,

669
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: I get to the smartest people I've ever met.

670
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think a couple of things. Just so

671
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: back to the decentralized and secure. Some of it really

672
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: comes down to, I don't know, I guess to your point,

673
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: the education or the desire for freedom. Right. So if

674
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: we look at it from the standpoint, the war on

675
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: drugs has been a pretty big failure. I mean, since

676
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, they've spent you know, over three trillion

677
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: dollars and drugs is the number one killer in America

678
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: right today, right, And so the war on drugs has

679
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: done nothing. And that's like a physical product that's been

680
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: you know, grown, cultivated, package, ship, process, distribute, et cetera.

681
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: Big one is decentralized more importantly digital, so it can't

682
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: be technically seen or you don't have to carry it,

683
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: et cetera. But the point more in the incentive mechanism.

684
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: When they don't tell you not to do heroin, it

685
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: doesn't make you want to do heroin. But when they

686
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 1: tell you that you don't have a right to store

687
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: your wealth in a way they can't steal from you,

688
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: it sort of makes you want to do that. Right.

689
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: That's why in America, when they start talking about gun

690
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: control laws, gun sales go through the roof, right, Oh,

691
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: you're going to take away my freedom, Well, then I'm

692
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: going to go act right now. So they're only really

693
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: speeding that mechanism up. And so you know, I would

694
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: say I was thinking as you were talking, so really

695
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: what we need is more education to educate people about this.

696
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: But the reality is is that we are driven by

697
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: self action and self determination. And so when I have

698
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: a problem, I go look for a solution. And so

699
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: when I see my freedom as under attack, I'm going

700
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: to go find the solution to preserving myself from that freedom.

701
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: And so I mean, I suppose sure education to continue

702
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: to kind of keep that in the forefront. But as

703
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: and this is what I tell people all the time,

704
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: do you think governments print more or less money in

705
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: the future, And of course answer is more. And do

706
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: you think governments become more authoritarian or less in the future?

707
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: And I think the answer is of course more authoritarian

708
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: until they can't be anymore. And so I think those

709
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: things are driving it. And as long as we can

710
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: keep those answers in front of people, they're naturally going

711
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: to be incentivized to go find those I want to

712
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 1: jump into ego death. So you said, if people only

713
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: knew what was being built, and they would realize that

714
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: the government's years behind where you know these builders are going.

715
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about that. Let's talk about

716
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: ego death. You just announced that you're starting a fun

717
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 1: number two, one hundred million dollars, big number. So one,

718
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that there's massive appetite for that that you're

719
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: seeing that, So tell me about the appetite. Two, there's

720
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: massive opportunity. So there's more opportunities that you want to

721
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: get into. And then maybe three you can tell us

722
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: about some of these and you don't have to name specifics,

723
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: but what are some of these things that maybe are

724
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: running light years in front of where these regulators are.

725
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, so one, the thesis of the First Fund,

726
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 2: like many of the other bitcoin only ventures, but the

727
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 2: thesis of the First Fund was I thought there was

728
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 2: this massive asymmetry of knowledge that bitcoin was this decentralized

729
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: and secure bedrock that couldn't scale for a long time,

730
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 2: and that is what made the value. So all you

731
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 2: had to do is hold on to it, and it

732
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: created and you were creating value. So obviously in a

733
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: free market that if that's all it was decentral utralized

734
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: and secure and you couldn't scale it, and everyone was

735
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: getting rich by holding bitcoin, everyone else would naturally create

736
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 2: other coins, saying using bitcoin's growth to say my coin

737
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 2: is better than that coin because it does x, it's

738
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 2: a totlet natural that would be what the market would

739
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 2: look like it's playing out, and again it still probably

740
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: looks like that today. So the thesis at the time

741
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 2: was people haven't done the work on bitcoin and why

742
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 2: it's a different asset class completely and it's repricing everything else,

743
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 2: and until they do that work, they're at a massive

744
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: disadvantage and they're going to invest in all of this

745
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: coins and nonsense, and all of those things over time

746
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: will go to zero. Every other thing other than Bitcoin

747
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 2: will go to zero because you would never use a blockchain,

748
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 2: essentially a high cost database, if it wasn't decentralized and secure,

749
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 2: you'd just use a database, right, So you'd never do that.

750
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 2: And then at the same.

751
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: Time, because a blockchain is a slow, inefficient database, and

752
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: exactly why the.

753
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: Only the only thing, the only thing, the only use

754
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: case is the decentralized insecurity, essentially the ledger of money

755
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 2: and is the biggest use case on the planet because

756
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 2: money is manipulated. It's the biggest thing. They say. So

757
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 2: when people say it doesn't have a use case, have

758
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: you looked at how big and bloated governments are. Have

759
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 2: you look at regulation, If you looked at all of

760
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 2: the things that extract wealth from you, that's what it

761
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 2: gives back to you. It's the biggest use case that

762
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 2: every world has ever seen, and you can't see it

763
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 2: right before her eyes.

764
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: Jamie Diamond at Davos, he said, you know, bitcoin has

765
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: no use case. I'm tired of talking about blah blah blah.

766
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: He said, it's only used for basically crime, right, he said,

767
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: it's avoiding sanctions, a M l K y C. Stuff.

768
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: I think, he said, you know, sex, trafficking, fraud, and

769
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 1: it's just a bunch of people trading between themselves. Yeah,

770
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: that's exactly that's exactly right. It's the work outside of

771
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: the sanctioned. You know, basically everything is sanctioned at this point,

772
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: and yes, so we can trade between ourselves exactly.

773
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: So I suspect Jamie Diamond is just a highly paid actor,

774
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: and he's highly paid from the money that he skims

775
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: off the top from that should be in your pockets.

776
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 2: That's what ends up happening because he sits at the

777
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: top of a system that must steal productivity that should

778
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: flow to society in the form of lower prices right

779
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 2: by his space and the system. So what would a

780
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 2: highly paid actor in that system say about a system

781
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 2: that gives you back your freedom and power, right because

782
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: it takes it so of course.

783
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: But my point is is he was basically saying the

784
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: only use case for bitcoin would be so you could

785
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: have freedom and power that the state couldn't have. I mean,

786
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: he was making the case for it inadvertency, right, But anyway,

787
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: I'm taking you sort of off your thesis for for

788
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: ego death and going the first.

789
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: But again, that's that's what you're up against, and that's

790
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 2: what the world is looking at with all of that.

791
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: And it's not just Jamie Dinmond, it's all of the

792
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: system that So if you think about regulation if you think,

793
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 2: if you think about regulation today, I've said this many times,

794
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: but you have regulation to protect your money on top

795
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: of a system designed to steal your money. Yeah, right,

796
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,439
Speaker 2: what would that look like? Right? Just be let's be

797
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: really honest, Like the free market is deflationary, and that's

798
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: a big topic. The natural state of free market is

799
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: deflation It's so big it breaks your brain. So if

800
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: you can say that and understand that, and then go

801
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: back and say, but I'm going to live in this

802
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,919
Speaker 2: other world in price from that other world, then it's

803
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: your own fault that the world looks.

804
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: Like it is from that. I mean, the regulation doesn't

805
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: protect your money from a system trying to steal it.

806
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: The regulation actually protects them to be able to continue

807
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: to steal your money. Because why forces me to keep

808
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: us my money in a system that's rent seekers in

809
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: every area as opposed to letting me use it freely?

810
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: Do you think?

811
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 2: Why do you think big tech is trying so hard

812
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 2: to regulate AI? Why do you think why do you

813
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: think why do you think drug companies look like they do?

814
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 2: Why do you think food companies look like the big agriculture?

815
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 2: Why do you think it's been co opted? By regulation,

816
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 2: because regulation protects the monopoly, it doesn't protect you. Why

817
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 2: do you think regulation is on top of money, Because

818
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: it protects a monopoly of money, not you. The entire

819
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 2: system is and just look at the evidence. Every single

820
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: industry has been driven this way. Why because prices fall

821
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 2: to the marginal cost of production and free in a

822
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: free market. What is the what is the marginal cost

823
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 2: of production of a line of code zero? What's the

824
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 2: marginal cost of production of a line of code created

825
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 2: by other code? Lines of code? Where AI is going zero,

826
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 2: The only way they can drive the prices up and

827
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: create the monopoly is through regulation, scaring you that they

828
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: will protect you from the very same thing that steals

829
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: the thing becoming free for you. So that is the

830
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 2: free market, That's what it looks like. And the regulation

831
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 2: on top of it makes it not a free market.

832
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: And that whole thing is getting worse and worse and worse,

833
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 2: and people are stuck in that fear loop making it worse.

834
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 2: The only thing that can stop it is something that

835
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: has no counterparty risk to the existing system outside decentralized

836
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 2: and secure. So that was our take. People were so

837
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 2: misunderstanding this asset class. They hadn't done the work. They

838
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 2: hadn't understand how this is the first time in history

839
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: that this is something like this has existed, and we

840
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 2: felt sure that it would become more decentralized and more

841
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 2: secure over time, which it is. And then we said,

842
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:25,479
Speaker 2: now there's with lightning and other things emerging on top.

843
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 2: You can scale in layers like protocol, like the like

844
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: the Internet scaled and layers, and there is going to

845
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 2: be more and more ability to be built on top,

846
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 2: and that's going to turn into that overtime is going

847
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 2: to turn into a peer to peer internet bounded by

848
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 2: energy that creates an entirely a new world. And so

849
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: I selfishly I wanted to be involved in that. When

850
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 2: I think about I wanted to. I knew that bitcoin

851
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 2: was repricing everything else, but so at first I had

852
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 2: a hedge in bitcoin, and I was spending most of

853
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 2: my time in what we just described, and I thought,

854
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 2: I'm a hypocrite, right, yeah, I'll be protected, but I'm

855
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: spending my time and energy on a whole bunch of

856
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 2: company boards in the existing space, and every time a

857
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 2: company wins there money has to be manipulated faster to

858
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 2: be able to drive up prices, and so I thought,

859
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 2: if I know this and I can see it coming,

860
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 2: and I can see similar to what I saw in

861
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 2: the Internet, it's kind of the best and the brightest

862
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 2: we're moving in this space. What am I doing spending

863
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,879
Speaker 2: ninety percent of my time in the FIAT world. I'm

864
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 2: going to spend it all in this And I'll tell

865
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 2: you it's been. It's been remarkable because you get to

866
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 2: see that it's I didn't think i'd have another chance

867
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 2: to do this. Like in the early days of the Internet,

868
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, Wow, people don't see this, people don't

869
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 2: see what's coming, and and the type of talent that

870
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 2: existed there, it was just it was your brain was

871
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: on fire all the time because it was just you're

872
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: learning at such a rate from some of the really

873
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 2: some super smart and dedicated entrepreneurs and such and capital.

874
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: This is bigger. This is this is way bigger because

875
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 2: because it's the same as the Internet, but the best prayers,

876
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 2: but it's aligned with where humans are going and so

877
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: it's more meaningful. And so the type of people, the

878
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 2: type of integrity that is built into the space, the

879
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 2: type of people that actually understand this and are building

880
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: it's so much more powerful than than than the Internet was.

881
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, would agree. You know, I talk about it

882
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: all the time, and you see it if you go

883
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: to a bitcoin conference. You know, the mainstreams to tell

884
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: us that we align on identities, you know, black, women, male, straight, gay,

885
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: whatever it may be, but we align on values. And

886
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: there's some values that I think are more important than others,

887
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: like freedom and human flourishment, for example. And so to

888
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: the point that you're making sort of bitcoin has attracted

889
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: the people that care about those types of topics. And

890
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: when you're in some of these bitcoin events, I mean

891
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: you can just feel it. You can just feel the vibration,

892
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: you can feel the energy in the room, so to speak.

893
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: And so to your point, you know, it's attracted the

894
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: best and the brightest, and really maybe crypto has almost

895
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: sort of helped that right as this great filtering mechanism,

896
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: because if you only care about the money, you're going

897
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: to go to the crypto side, and if you go

898
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: to the bitcoin side, you're basically admitting to take less

899
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: money and to go the long, hard way. And so only.

900
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: There isn't an entrepreneur in our portfolio, or I don't

901
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 2: think in the bitcoin space that would take money from

902
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 2: vcs that were crypto vcs because you don't want to.

903
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 2: You don't want a shareholder that's misaligned with your at

904
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 2: that level, at an integrity level, or or that you

905
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 2: have to teach about a protocol that's so different. Can

906
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 2: you imagine trying to take money from somebody who had

907
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 2: no clue about what we're talking about right now? Your

908
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 2: values aren't aligned and so so why this is expanding

909
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 2: and why it's just such a beautiful space. And if

910
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 2: you just look at thefolio, the portfolio of success and

911
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 2: what's happening in the companies that we funded already, Like,

912
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: I literally can't believe I get to do it. I

913
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: can't believe I get to work with these brilliant people

914
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 2: creating this value for other people, and they and they're

915
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: creating value for themselves in the companies out of creating

916
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 2: staggering value for other people and bringing on billions of

917
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 2: people to this asset loss. That's what's going to happen.

918
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I in this presentation, I gave as I

919
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: said it, a bit block boom in and Packpitcoin. I

920
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: was sort of at Packpitcoin. I put a slide in

921
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: where I had said sort of I showed oil like

922
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: a cann of oil or barrel of oil, and so

923
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: you have oil like an asset, but then you have

924
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: the oil industry, so like who made the sonar for

925
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: the oil tanker to sell across the ocean, or who

926
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: made the satellite tracking to track you know, or who

927
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: made the new drill head to go horizontal or whatever

928
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 1: it may be. Right, so you have the asset bitcoin,

929
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,959
Speaker 1: but you have this whole industry of all these things

930
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 1: that have to be built. And if we don't invest

931
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: into that, basically we have a model t in our

932
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 1: front yard sitting on blocks because we have no tire

933
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: shops and no gas stations and no roads to drive

934
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 1: it on. And so the sort of the challenge was

935
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,720
Speaker 1: to the bitcoiners in that in that presentation, was that cool,

936
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: you bought your bitcoin, you're hoddling on a hill, but

937
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 1: just like your modeltes on blocks, But if you don't

938
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: go and help build out this ecosystem, then you don't

939
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: have roads to drive it on. And so there's this

940
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: entire ecosystem that needs to be built. And so that's

941
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 1: obviously we're hoping to return better capital, but it's also

942
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: potentially like hey, we just need to build this world

943
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: that we believe in.

944
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, but and just building on that. I just think,

945
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: So there's an asymmetry and knowledge just on the asset layer, right,

946
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: So probably less than one percent I really understand the

947
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 2: asset layer really a lot less than one present. Even

948
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 2: people that hold it don't really understand how it's reprising

949
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 2: everything else. Now, there's a massive asymmetry of knowledge in

950
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: what you can build on top. And then you look

951
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 2: at this world and you say, there's all these problems. Right,

952
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 2: What entrepreneurs do is they race for the hardest to

953
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 2: solve problem because that's where the return is is by

954
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 2: solving it, they'd solve it for millions or billions of

955
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 2: others and they create something really magical. That's what. So

956
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: every time you hear a problem, I just go, Okay,

957
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 2: that's screaming at me. Here's how how would you? How

958
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 2: would you solve that? So when you think about this

959
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 2: kind of the the today you could call it. Bitcoin

960
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: might not, but on top of bitcoin, it might look

961
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: like a backcountry roads, gravel roads. The super highways are coming, right,

962
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 2: and all of the stuff that's being built on on

963
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 2: top of, on top of this is coming and it's

964
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 2: going to provide incredible value to those entrepreneurs and society

965
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: by by solving those problems. So I when I when

966
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: I see a big, hairy problem like that, I think

967
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 2: that's where I want to go.

968
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. I love it. So and you're

969
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 1: doing it. You're building the world that you want, and

970
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: you're helping other people do the same. So ego death Bitcoin,

971
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: Ego death. Fun number two open and ready for business,

972
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: and just maybe this last question will just transition out.

973
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think it's already sort of

974
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: self explanatory. But this is obviously a much bigger fund

975
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: number two, and so it's not just the demand to

976
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,479
Speaker 1: get into this from the investor side, but you're also

977
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: seeing an explosion of opportunities that need funding to grow

978
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: as well. So I mean, we've seen it on both sides. Yeah.

979
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 2: So that so that's why So we actually our first

980
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:28,240
Speaker 2: fund we kept small, specifically because the ecosystem was small,

981
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 2: and that would allow us way more time to be

982
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 2: really kind of helping the entrepreneurs and spend more time

983
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 2: inside some of those companies that would be enablers of

984
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 2: what would come. Now those enablers are growing, some of

985
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 2: them are growing extraordinarily fast, like blow me away completely,

986
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 2: like the crazy fast and you and now in those

987
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 2: you think about the next step their Series A or

988
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 2: Series BE and everything else and now. But there aren't

989
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 2: a lot of Series A funds and bitcoin only their

990
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 2: Series A funds broadly and everything else. And those entrepreneurs

991
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 2: don't want to go to somebody who doesn't understand bitcoin

992
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:18,240
Speaker 2: for capital because that means teaching about bitcoin and everything

993
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 2: else and their business. So that's why the bigger fund.

994
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 2: The entire ecosystem is maturing as you would expect it

995
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 2: would mature, and not just in our portfolio companies. You

996
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 2: know this from broadly in the industry. There's a bunch

997
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 2: of things that are starting to catch fire.

998
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well, it's an exciting time to be in

999
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: the space. I agree. We have lots of fireworks. The

1000
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: ETF catalyst obviously the having cycle that's coming back around

1001
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 1: as well, But more importantly, it's the explosion of this

1002
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: technology is going to perpetuate and really more importantly help

1003
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: foster a new era of human advancement, human flourishment, et cetera,

1004
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: and freedom. Hopefully, I think with that will go ahead

1005
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: and sign it off unless there's anything else that you

1006
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: want to add or we missed.

1007
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 2: No, no, just awesome catching up with your markets again.

1008
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 2: Our friendship has come from the exact same same thing

1009
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 2: that you see in this, in this ecosystem, and we'd say,

1010
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 2: looking outside in it'd say, okay, there's there's these fights

1011
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 2: in bitcoin and everything else, and you don't have to

1012
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 2: agree with everybody, but but I and and that's and

1013
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 2: I think a free market makes it stronger by the

1014
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 2: debates and everything else. And so so it's okay to

1015
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 2: be different, different and have different views on this. But

1016
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 2: what but what you see in this is the really

1017
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 2: important things are aligned. And that's why, why why Again,

1018
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 2: you can create a type of people that you meet

1019
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 2: in this you just you know they're going to be

1020
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 2: lifelong friends.

1021
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: Jeff, so good, So good. I love that, look forward

1022
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: to catching up with you sometime soon. But that was

1023
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: signed off. I'm gonna put in the show notes down below.

1024
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: Of course, we'll link to Ego Death, your book as

1025
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: well anything else that people should be paying attention to.

1026
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 2: One quick thing, Jeff Booth dot ca is my website.

1027
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 2: And the only reason I say that is if you're

1028
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 2: going to follow me on social media. Make sure the

1029
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 2: social media that I'm on is on that website, because

1030
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 2: there's just too many fake accounts.

1031
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, all right, Jeff, thanks so much, Thanks buddy,