1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio. 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: And how the tech are you? I am recovering still little, 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: you know, raspy, But here we go the show. They 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: say it must keep on happening. I think I think 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: that's the saying. And today I thought I would talk Uh, 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: this is kind of a weird mishmash of a show, 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: but I thought I would talk about a few inventors 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,959 Speaker 1: who created stuff. Some of that stuff would become insanely popular, 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: and yet these inventors were never really able to fully 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: capitalize on their innovation for one reason or another. Uh. 13 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: But the reason why I wanted to do that is 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: because there's this narrative, particularly here in the United States, 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: that if you've got ingenuity and elbow grease, you can 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 1: work your way to the top. You can smash through 17 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: economic and social barriers that you know otherwise constrain us. 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: So here in the US, all that gets wrapped up 19 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: in what we call the American dream. Unfortunately, sometimes you 20 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: can do everything right and still lose out. And so 21 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about some of those cases. We're also 22 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: going to talk a lot about patents, and I've talked 23 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: about patents before, but let's go over it again kind 24 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: of as a reminder. To receive a patent is to 25 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: get some authorities assurance that that authority recognizes you as 26 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: the inventor of something. Typically we're talking about a government office, 27 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: some office that has been authorized by the government to 28 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: do this, like the U. S. Patent Office. So to 29 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: secure a patent, and inventor has to submit a patent 30 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: application and also pay fees in order to have it considered. 31 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: The application has to explain at least in some detail 32 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: what the invention does and how it works, and that 33 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: description needs to be at least somewhat specific. If you 34 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: get really vague in general with your patent application, you're 35 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: less likely to be granted a patent by the office, 36 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: because if you're not really describing how your invention works, 37 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: then that creates this this huge bubble you can use 38 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: to attack anyone who makes anything remotely similar to your invention. Right, Like, 39 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: the whole idea of a patent is that it protects 40 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: your idea, your invention. But if you are so vague 41 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: with the way you word how your invention works, anyone 42 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: who makes anything even remotely similar you could argue as 43 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: infringing on your patent, when really the problem is you 44 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: never explained how your invention works properly. Patent applications and 45 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: patents themselves are a matter of public record, and that 46 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: means anyone can pull up your patent and see how 47 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: your invention works. You can do this right now. You 48 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: go to the internet, go to a web page, uh, 49 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: Patent office web page, and start searching patents. You can 50 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: read all you want. They get pretty technical and filled 51 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: with like jargon and legal ease, largely too kind of 52 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: obfu skate what's happening uh, And that does make it 53 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: a little tricky to read. Uh. You also get a 54 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: lot of this kind of flowery language that has been 55 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: adopted as being standard in patents. But you can do it. 56 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: You can check it out and you can see exactly, 57 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: or at least generally, how various inventions work. But the 58 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: patent also grants protection for the invention. So if you 59 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,839 Speaker 1: discover that some ne'er do well out there has been 60 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: copying your invention, you can take that person or you know, 61 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: entity to court and you could say, you know, they 62 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: sue them for patent infringement. If you can prove that 63 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: they were using your patented approach without first getting your 64 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 1: permission to do it, then you can frequently get some 65 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: decent damages out of them and shut their illegal operations down. 66 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: Often these end up going to settlement before it goes 67 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: all the way through the court system. Court cases are expensive, 68 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: and if a company is already kind of feeling like 69 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: they're not gonna win out on a on a case, 70 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: they might choose to settle rather than draw things out, 71 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: pay the high price of legal fees on top of 72 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: whatever damages they end up getting thrown their way as well. 73 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: Now we're going to get back to this idea about 74 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: you know, permissions and patents and licensing and all that 75 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, because I am oversimplifying here. Now, patents 76 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: have a shelf life, and here in the United States, 77 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: a utility patent has twenty years. Uh. There is an 78 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: asterisk here. However, in order to have the full protection 79 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: of a patent, then the applicant has to pay occasional 80 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: fees in order for the patent to be enforceable. So 81 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: it's really a maximum of twenty years. But that maximum 82 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: is determined by whether or not the applicant has actually 83 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: continued to pay uh those those regular fees. So after 84 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: twenty years, a patent expires, and anyone can make use 85 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: of that patented technology. However, they like folks can copy 86 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: your invention and it's totally legal. They can make their 87 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: own version of whatever invention you created. However, you know, 88 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: the thought is, after twenty years, whatever the technology is 89 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: is going to be so out of date, then at 90 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: that point you will have moved on to other stuff. Meanwhile, 91 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: some folks might get inspired by your old patented invention 92 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: and they might use that as a springboard to create 93 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: something entirely new. So, in other words, patents have an 94 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: expiration date, both because governments want to strike a balance 95 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: between protecting inventions and inventors as well as encouraging innovation. 96 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: That's always like the other side of the coin, right, 97 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: the idea of protecting ideas can often come at the 98 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,559 Speaker 1: cost of innovation. If someone else sees an idea someone 99 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: had and thinks that's great, I know how to make 100 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: it better, but they're prevented from making it better because 101 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: there's a patent in the way. That could be a problem. Now, 102 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: There's also an alternative to patenting your invention, and that's 103 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: you know, just trying to keep it secret, keep it safe. 104 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: But that runs a pretty big risk. If someone figures 105 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: out how you did whatever it was your invention does, 106 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: and then they copy you and you don't have a patent, 107 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: well it's gonna be a lot harder for you to 108 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: stop them from doing that and seeking out damages. If 109 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: you're super careful and secretive and your invention is not 110 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: easy to reverse engineer, well you might be able to 111 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: dominate the market. But if someone does reverse engineer your work, 112 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: you know that is, if they see what your invention 113 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: does and then they work backward to figure out how 114 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: the invention doesn't, well, you could be opening yourself up 115 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: to unexpected competition. Now I should add that lots of 116 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: folks will reverse engineer patented inventions even with the patent 117 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:43,239 Speaker 1: being publicly available. So a patent is supposed to explain 118 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: how an invention works, and it's supposed to be specific 119 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: enough so that it can be an enforceable patent, But 120 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: that's still not quite the same thing as like having 121 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: an instruction manual on how to build the darn thing, 122 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: or a manual explaining how it actually works in practice. 123 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: So sometimes you'll have competitors who will take a product 124 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: that someone else made and they will reverse engineer that 125 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: patented device, And they might do that not just to 126 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,679 Speaker 1: figure out how the competition is doing what they do, 127 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: but also to figure out maybe there's an alternative way 128 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: to get the same end result that doesn't depend upon 129 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: the patented technology. Let's use an example, because this is 130 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: getting kind of esoteric, I guess. So let's say that 131 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: you have invented a machine and that machine makes cookies, 132 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: and you've created an innovative cookie dough extractor thing about Bob, 133 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: and you patented it, and your arch nemesis in the 134 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: cookie world has purchased one of your cookie machines and 135 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: then taken it apart, and then they build their own 136 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: cookie machine, and they make sure that they use an 137 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: alternative approach that accomplishes the same goal. It still makes cookies, 138 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: but it does it in a way that's fundamentally different 139 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: from the way your machine makes cookies. And the two 140 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: cookies that are produced minded up being really really similar, 141 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: but the processes are different. That means that if you 142 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: were to take that other you know, arch nemesis to court. 143 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: The court would say, well, I would probably say anyway, 144 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: you can never guarantee these things. But the court would 145 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: probably say, well, yeah, they're using a cookie making machine, 146 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: but clearly they're using a different process than your cooking 147 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: making machine does. Therefore, their cooking making machine does not 148 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: infringe upon your patent. So the alternatives are you either 149 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: have to purchase stuff from who whoever holds the patent, 150 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: and that's assuming that the patent holder is actually making 151 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: the invention they patented in the first place, or you 152 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: have to license the patented designed from from the patent holder. 153 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: There are companies out there that hold hundreds or thousands 154 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: of patents, and these companies make money not by manufacturing something. 155 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: They're not actually making the inventions that the patents cover. Instead, 156 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: they license those patents to other companies that do make stuff. 157 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: So these companies are just making money by licensing out 158 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: the patented inventions to other companies that make the thing, 159 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: and that's how they make a profit, and that's perfectly legal. 160 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: But then there are also patent trolls. All right, I'm 161 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: gonna talk about patentrols more in just a second, but 162 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: first let's take a quick break. Okay, before the break, 163 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: I mentioned patent trolls, and I've done episodes about these 164 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: as well. But it's important for us to remember what 165 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: a patent troll is. That is, a person or an 166 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: entity that holds one or more patents and doesn't make 167 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: any use of it other than as kind of a weapon. 168 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: So patent trolls look out for anyone who's making any 169 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: kind of product or service that could infringe upon a 170 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: patent that the patent trolls hold. Then they threatened legal 171 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: action against that that person or company. So the trolls 172 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: goal ultimately is to coax out a big, juicy settlement 173 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: payment from that targeted entity. The troll has no intent 174 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: on making use of the patent, nor is it necessarily 175 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: even licensing out the patent. It's just lying in wait. 176 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: It's like a trap that's been set. It's just waiting 177 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: to spring into action as soon as it detects that 178 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: someone in fact is making a technology that could conceivably 179 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: be said to infringe upon a patent that the troll holds. 180 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: They're generally regarded by the rest of the text sphere 181 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: as odious entities. Anyway, patents will pop up a couple 182 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: of times in this episode, so I thought it was 183 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: a good idea to that quick cliffs notes version of 184 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: what they are and why they exist. We're gonna be 185 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: coming back and talking about specific things about patents as well. 186 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: But before we get into all that, let's start off 187 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: with an actual inventor who came up with an idea. 188 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: She filed a patent for this idea, she received a 189 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: patent for it, and yet failed to be recognized for 190 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,599 Speaker 1: her work and did not make money off of her idea. 191 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: And it was an idea that, for a short while, 192 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 1: was nothing short of a global sensation. All right, So 193 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: they aren't really a thing anymore, at least not anything 194 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: that anyone talks about. It's kind of a thing that, 195 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, you might joke about if you were, for 196 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: some reason joking about the year two thousand seventeen. But 197 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: do you remember fidget spinners? Do you remember when fidget 198 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: spinners became huge, like unavoidably huge. Everyone was selling different 199 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: kinds of fidget spinners. You had some that would light up, 200 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: You had some that were had you know, logos on them. 201 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works had a few How stuff Works branded 202 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: fidget spinners. I actually have a few at my house. Uh. 203 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: The toys in case you're not familiar with fidget spinners, 204 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: and it just means that you weren't awake during two 205 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: thousand and seventeen, if that's the case. But the toys 206 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: have a ball bearing in the center of them, and 207 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: around the ball bearing is kind of a lobed structure, 208 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: and typically you had like three lobes surrounding the ball bearing, 209 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: and the lobes can spin freely along the axis of 210 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: the ball bearing with just a little tap and you 211 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: could spin them. You could flick them and and it 212 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: would spin around it's it's ball bearing center. And like 213 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: I said, they became popular and then ultimately became unavoidable 214 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: in two thousand seventeen. Then not long after that they 215 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: kind of fizzled out like it was a flash in 216 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: the pan kind of fad. Uh. No telling if they're 217 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: ever going to make a comeback. You know, we've seen 218 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: other toys have this kind of reaction where they get 219 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: huge and they go away and then years later they 220 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: come back again. The yo yo, fittingly enough, a toy 221 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: that goes down on the string and that ultimately comes 222 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: back up again if you're doing it right. The yo 223 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: yo does that, it gets really popular, and then it 224 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: essentially disappears, and then years later it gets really popular again. 225 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: Well anyway, the genius behind the fidget spinner was Catherine Hettinger, 226 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: and I think for a lot of people, Hettinger is 227 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: not the type of person who springs to mind when 228 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: you use the word inventor, but that's exactly what she is. 229 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: She is an inventor. She invented the fidget spinner concept 230 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: back in the nineteen nineties while she was taking care 231 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: of her daughter. Hettinger had a medical condition that limited 232 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: her ability to really be active and to actively play 233 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: with her kid, so she turned her innovation toward finding 234 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: a toy that could help out, and she designed the 235 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: fidget spinner and patented her invention back in nine seven, 236 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: twenty years before the fidget spinner would become a phenomenon. 237 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: She entered into talks with Hasbro, the toy company, but 238 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: ultimately those talks didn't go anywhere, and in two thousand five, 239 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: she was faced with a four hundred dollar renewal fee 240 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: for her patent and she was strapped for cash. She was, 241 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: you know, just trying to make ends meet, so she 242 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: chose to let the patent expire because the one deal 243 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: she had with a toy company had fallen through, so 244 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: she didn't have the money to just keep this patent 245 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: going for no real reason. And then more than a 246 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: decade after that, the fidget spinner would pop up and 247 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: become a craze. Hettinger didn't benefit from that at all, 248 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: although I should say in interviews it seems like she's 249 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: really pleased that people found her invention interesting and entertaining, 250 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: like she has a really good attitude about it. Now, 251 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: many articles point out that even if Hettinger had kept 252 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: the patent on fidget spinners, and even if the craze 253 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: had happened before the patent expired, because remember she she 254 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: filed for the patent in nineties seven. Um, I think 255 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: she was awarded it a couple of years later, so 256 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: she was getting real close to that patent expiring just 257 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: even on its own. Um. You know, the patent expires 258 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: from the date it was issued, not the date it 259 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: was applied for, so she still had a little bit 260 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: of wiggle room. But even with that, she might have 261 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: still been out of luck and when it came to 262 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: profiting off her idea. And that's because most fidget spinners 263 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: were coming out of Chinese manufacturing companies, a small to 264 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: medium sized companies that aren't particularly concerned about following rules 265 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to patents. The fidget spinner is such 266 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: a relatively simple design and it's so inexpensive to manufacture 267 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: that it represented a very low bar to meet in 268 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: order to get in on the craze. Like if you 269 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: saw that these were starting to get popular, then it 270 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: didn't It didn't require much for you to start making 271 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: them yourself if you had the manufacturing capabilities. And because 272 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: the company is making these things are in China, it's 273 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: pretty much impossible for the U. S. Patent Office to 274 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: enforce any patents that are being violated there, Like it's 275 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: just there the lad the jurisdiction does not extend all 276 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: the way out to China. And I don't know about you, 277 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: but I find Hettinger's story pretty frustrating because I think 278 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: folks should get compensated for their work and for their ideas. Again, 279 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: Hettinger herself seems to be, you know, really fine with everything, 280 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: but I'm I'm of the opinion that someone should at least, 281 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: you know, send a truckload to cash her way for 282 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: the fact that her invention became one of the uh 283 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: iconic things to come out of two thousand and seventeen. 284 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: Speaking of the threat of Chinese companies, let's talk about 285 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: another and ventor who was affected by that. I'm talking 286 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: about Shame Chen, who created another piece of tech that 287 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: had a heck of a rise to popularity followed by 288 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: some crash and burns literally though that wasn't necessarily Chen's fault. 289 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: So Chen was born in China, but he immigrated to 290 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: the United States back in the nineteen eighties, and he 291 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: founded a couple of different companies, and he was creating 292 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: interesting technology in different fields, including tech for the agricultural industry. 293 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: So he has had a hand in inventing lots of 294 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: different stuff. However, the invention that he created that the 295 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: mainstream would really become aware of was the hoverboard. Now 296 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: not talking about the fictional technology used in Back to 297 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: the Future too, and to some extent and Back to 298 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: the Future three, that kind of hoverboard doesn't exist. Despite 299 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,959 Speaker 1: the fact that Robert Zemeckis shot some cheeky behind the 300 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: scenes footage that supposed least that that hoverboards do exist, 301 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: they don't. Now I'm talking about the two wheeled platforms 302 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: that you stand on and use kind of like a 303 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: segue in order to roll around. He also patented the 304 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: solo wheel, which is an electric unicycle that's self balanced. 305 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: Back when I was walking to the office, I often 306 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: saw this one dude cruising down the belt Line, which 307 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: is a big pedestrian and bicycle lane that goes through 308 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: a lot of Atlanta, and he was on his solo 309 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: wheel and he looked kind of like a hipster robot. 310 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: That's not a judgment, it's just kind of a description 311 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: of what he looked like. For the record, I actually 312 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: invied his wheeled transportation, but I had a very strong 313 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: feeling that I probably would wipe out if I were 314 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: to try it myself. It doesn't matter how self balancing 315 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: that unicycle is. I will find a way. But anyway, 316 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: Chen filed a patent for his hoverboard invention, which was 317 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: actually called the hover tracks t R A x UH. 318 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: This was back in two thousand twelve when he filed 319 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: for the patent. He received a patent in two thousand fourteen. 320 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: Patent office takes a while to process these things because 321 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: the office gets flooded with patent applications and has to 322 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: go through them and make you know, careful judgment about 323 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: whether or not a patent is warranted. Uh. So it 324 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: does take time for that to happen. So Chen's version 325 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: of the technology was really expensive. His product was not cheap. Uh. 326 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: It costs around a thousand dollars to get an official 327 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: hover tracks device. Meanwhile, you have these Chinese companies that 328 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: were starting to churn out inexpensive clones of the hover tracks, 329 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: and consumers started to flock to these cheaper alternatives. It 330 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: was clear that people found the hover tracks technology really intriguing, 331 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: but the price tag was too steep for a lot 332 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,479 Speaker 1: of people, so they turned to the cheaper versions. But cheaper, 333 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: ironically comes at a cost. The designs weren't necessarily as 334 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: sophisticated or effective as Chen's was, and certainly the companies 335 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: were skimping on the batteries, and there were numerous reports 336 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: of folks discovering that their hoverboard devices were catching on 337 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: fire like explusively. The problem was serious and bad enough 338 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: to prompt airlines to make announcements that they would not 339 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: allow any hoverboard devices on flights. I'll talk a bit 340 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: more about what was behind the exploding hoverboards after we 341 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: come back from this quick break. Okay, so why hoverboards explode? 342 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: Maybe while the issue was with the batteries in these machines. 343 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: Lithium ion batteries can be extremely dangerous if they are 344 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: poorly made or if they are damaged. If the various 345 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: layers inside the battery are made to come into direct 346 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: contact with one another, then it forms a direct path 347 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: called a short circuit. Now, normally, the electrons that these 348 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: batteries generate would have to flow out of the negative 349 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: terminal of the battery into a circuit. They would then 350 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: do work along the way of the circuit, and ultimately 351 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: they would re enter the battery through the positive terminal. 352 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: But if you were to compress or pierce the battery 353 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: and cause layers to come into contact to each other, uh, 354 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: then it creates a shortcut for the electrons. It creates 355 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: a short circuit. Electrons would flow freely from negative to 356 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: positive as fast a rate as it could possibly do, 357 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: as as was physically possible, and the battery would start 358 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: to heat up and heat up and heat up, and 359 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 1: eventually would get hot enough to combust, which could in 360 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: fact be explosive because the materials inside the battery and 361 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: the fact that they're under incredible pressure. Um, We've seen 362 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: these issues with other technologies too, like smartphones, right, We've 363 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: seen where a poorly made batch of batteries have led 364 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: to massive fire and recalls and and agencies and UH 365 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: and organizations like airlines having to respond to it because 366 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: they represented really massive danger. So Chen's business, remember Chen 367 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: was the guy who created the hover tracks that kind 368 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: of spawned all this. His business was undercut by these 369 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: Chinese companies, and the technology itself got a bad name, 370 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: mostly due to these cheaper devices that were catching on fire. 371 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: And it's a real shame because Chen's versions would likely 372 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: have come down and cost over time, as early adopters 373 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: would help fund improvements in manufacturing and sourcing, and then 374 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: folks would actually have access to a more affordable hoverboard 375 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: that you know, would be less likely to explode because 376 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't being rushed out of uh A manufacturing center 377 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: in China. Now. Sometimes inventors choose not to patent something, 378 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: either because they are elnisie guarding their trade secrets and 379 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: they don't want to let those out because again patents 380 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: are public, or because they actually want people to go 381 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: out and make the invention In other words, they don't 382 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: want to patent it because they don't believe that the 383 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: invention belongs to them, or sometimes they don't try to 384 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: file a patent because they figured their chances of getting 385 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: a patent are slim for whatever reason. For example, let's 386 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: talk about Jonas Salk, the doctor who came up with 387 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: a polio vaccine. Often he is lauded as someone who 388 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: generously gave the the invention of a vaccine for polio 389 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: to the world in an effort to make the world 390 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: a better place. Polio was a global problem, and salks 391 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: vaccine made it possible to all but eradicate the disease. Now, 392 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: typically we think Salk's decision not to patent his vaccine 393 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: was done as an altruistic choice that he wanted uh 394 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: to help the world and he didn't feel it was 395 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: morally right to patent something and then make people pay 396 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: for the privilege of not dying a polio Now, in fact, 397 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: the Salk Institute actually considered filing a patent for the vaccine. 398 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: It's just that the institute figured that the patent would 399 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: be denied on the basis of prior art. So I 400 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: should probably explain what that is really quickly. Prior art 401 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: means that the invention you're describing already exists. So I 402 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: couldn't patent a flathead screwdriver because flathead screwdrivers already exist. 403 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: That is an existing invention. I can't claim it as 404 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: my idea. It predates my life, not just my application. 405 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: But if I came up with a crazy new screwdriver invention, 406 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: I could be able to patent that, but my application 407 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: would likely reference all the inventions that came before it 408 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: that inspired or influenced my creation. Like that's typically a 409 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:05,479 Speaker 1: good hack is that you acknowledge inventions that came before 410 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: that resemble or affect your own invention. So prior art 411 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: is a way to prevent someone from trying to cash 412 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: in on an idea that already exists. So one patent 413 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: lawsuit in which prior art played a big role was 414 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: when a company called Personal Audio ll C was pursuing 415 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: lawsuits against various podcasts and podcast networks, including how Stuff 416 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: Works back in the day, and the company was claiming 417 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: that it held a patent on the distribution of online 418 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: serialized audio content a k a. What we would call podcasts. 419 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: So in various lawsuits, defendants attempted to show that there 420 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: existed examples of such serialized audio content before Personal Audio 421 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: LLC's patent application, and that would be an example of 422 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: prior art. If you said, no, wait, people were doing 423 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: this already before you tried to patent, then you can't 424 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: claim that you invented it because it existed before you 425 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: you were even filing a patent for it, So you 426 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: didn't invent it. It existed already. So that prior art 427 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: was actually enough for courts to consider the associated patents invalid. 428 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: They could not be a valid patent because the invention 429 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: had already existed by the time of the filing. So 430 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: that's another thing I need to mention. Even if a 431 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: patent office awards a patent, subsequent legal cases can lead 432 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: to a court declaring the patent invalid for various reasons. 433 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: One wicked famous example of that in tech history was 434 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: the patent for radio. So initially Nicola Tesla received patents 435 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: relating to radio technology, but then these would be rescinded 436 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: and the patent office would award patents to Tesla's rival, Marconi. 437 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: And the story goes that Marconi's influential, so in other words, 438 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: wealthy and well connected family had had a lot to 439 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: do with that decision that they were able to kind 440 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: of grease the wheels and get the patent office to 441 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: reverse its decision and give the patents to Marconians to 442 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: have Tesla. Now many years later, in fact, six months 443 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: after Tesla had died and six years after Marconi had died, 444 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: the U. S. Supreme Court would rule that Marconi's patents 445 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: were invalid and that credits should in fact revert to Tesla, 446 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: which you know, a little late there everyone's dead. Also, 447 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: that story gets way more complicated. It sounds like, oh, 448 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court wanted to address an injustice. No, that's 449 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: that's not really what that was about. There were other 450 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: elements at play here, elements like politics and war factoring 451 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: into the decision to file legal cases and reverse decisions. 452 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: I should probably do a full episode describing exactly what 453 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: happened there, because you have the tech on one side, 454 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: like the actual who was it that came up with 455 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: the technology? Was there a first? Did that person influence 456 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: the other? Like would it have been possible for them 457 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: to both independently come to that invention? And there was 458 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: no cross contamination that kind of thing, because that does happen, right, Like, 459 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: there are times where people will invent the same sort 460 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: of thing in different parts of the world and they 461 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: have no connection with each other, and that becomes a 462 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: real headache for patent offices to figure out, well, who 463 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: do we award the patent to write? If both came 464 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: up with an invention and the inventions are similar enough, um, 465 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: and they are independently, you know, have come to these inventions, 466 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: how do you figure out who gets the patent? So 467 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: I might have to do a full episode about the 468 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: Marconi Tesla situation, because it's full of intrigue. It's not 469 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: just about technology and influence and wealth and all that 470 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: sort of stuff. It has to do with politics, has 471 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: to do with spn age, has to do with paranoia. 472 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: There's so much in that. So I may do an 473 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: episode about that in the future. I have talked about 474 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: Marconi and Tesla before, but come on, that story is 475 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: just a juicy one. It's a really fun one to 476 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: dive into. Now. Sometimes inventors create something on behalf of 477 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: a client, and the inventor doesn't patent their invention because 478 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: the work they're doing is for someone else, not for themselves. 479 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: Such was the case with Ron Klein, who actually invented 480 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,959 Speaker 1: lots of different stuff and was quite successful, so successful 481 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: that he actually retired three different times. He kept the 482 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: retirement wouldn't stick, and the very first time he retired 483 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,719 Speaker 1: he was at the tender age of thirty four. So 484 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: you know someone's really got things going when they can 485 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: afford to retire at age thirty four. Anyway, Klein's invention 486 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,959 Speaker 1: that I wanted to talk about this episode was a 487 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: really useful one. He's the guy who came up with 488 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,719 Speaker 1: the idea of storing credit card information on a strip 489 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: of magnetic tape glued to the back of a credit card. 490 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: So before that, merchants had a devil of a time 491 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: sussing out if a customer's credit card was linked to 492 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: them being a credit risk or not. And here's how 493 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: things used to work back in the day. Credit card 494 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: companies would maintain a list of card numbers that represented 495 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: credit risks, and they would send these lists out to 496 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: various merchants and it would be, you know, the merchants 497 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: who accepted whatever that credit card was. So customer comes 498 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: in and wants to purchase something on credit, they hand 499 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: over their credit card. The merchant would then have to 500 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: get out this list and cross reference to see if 501 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: the card on the that the customer had, like if 502 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: their number was on that list. And that was a 503 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: tedious and time consuming process, very easy to make mistakes too. 504 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: So client tapped in with a solution. Now he knew 505 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: about magnetic tape, like the ability to store information by 506 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: using an electro magnet to rearrange magnetic uh fibers filaments 507 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: really um little tiny pieces of material on tape, and 508 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: by aligning them in one way or another, you could 509 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: represent different kinds of information. You could make it audio, 510 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: or you could just make it data. So he knew 511 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: about this, like real to real tape was a thing 512 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: at this point. So he figured if you encoded a 513 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: credit card number onto magnetic tape, and then you attach 514 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: that to the credit card, and then you also had 515 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: a database that was filled with credit risk numbers also 516 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: stored on a magnetic medium, you could compare the two 517 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: electronically and do it much faster than you would do 518 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: if you had to do it by hand, and it 519 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: would be much more reliable, less likely to have errors. 520 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: It required creating a device that would be able to 521 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: read the magnetic strip, and he figured that if you 522 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: just physically inserted and then quickly removed a card from 523 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: such a device, that motion, that physical motion of pulling 524 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: the tape across the device was a lot like a 525 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: real to real tape player moving tape across a red head, 526 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: you know, a little electro magnetic head that can detect 527 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: how the magnetic particles are aligned on a piece of 528 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: magnetic tape. So it's a lot like a cassette player 529 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: in a way, except it was a stationary device and 530 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: you were just physically moving the tape past it and 531 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: it worked. So Klein made this system for his client 532 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: and didn't patent it, and before you knew it, all 533 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: these different credit card companies had adopted that technology. Uh 534 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: so you know, that just became a universal tech without 535 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: client getting real finance credit for it. Although again, like 536 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: he did just fine with all of his other inventions, 537 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: and there are tons of other examples we could talk about, 538 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: but men to wrap this up with one that's near 539 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: and dear to my heart, and this comes to us 540 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: courtesy of a drummer, a guy named Duke in a way, 541 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: I'll just call him Daisuke, and I'm certain I am 542 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: butchering the pronunciation of the name, and my sincerest apologies 543 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: for that. But Duke kind of sort of invented karaoke machines. Now, 544 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: I say kind of sort of because there appear to 545 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: at least be a few other examples of early karaoke 546 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: style machines. But a lot of people credit Daisuke for 547 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: really getting the ball rolling, for making this something that 548 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: became a phenomenon. So Daisuke made his living playing drums 549 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: in bar bands, and one of the things they would 550 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,479 Speaker 1: do is they would let business folks businessmen. Really, let's 551 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: be let's face it, its nineteen seven. These japan businessmen 552 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: get a little inebriated and they'd want to come up 553 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: on stage and sing songs, and the band would back 554 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: the person singing them, essentially you know, live karaoke. Now, 555 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: there are a couple of versions of this story. Some 556 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: of them say that a customer, maybe it was a 557 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: bar owner, asked Daisuke to actually record some backing tracks 558 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: so that they would just have them on tape. Others 559 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: say that Daisuke more or less came up with this 560 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: idea on his own, but in any case, the whole 561 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: idea was record the backing music onto eight track tapes 562 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: just kind of like a precursor to cassette tapes, and 563 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: then use an eight track player with a microphone to 564 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: allow inebriated businessman to sing even if there were no 565 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: backing band available to play live behind them. And it 566 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: would also mean ultimately you wouldn't have to pay a 567 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: band at all, like you would have the benefits of 568 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 1: this service without having to pay a band. Sod Suke 569 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: would rent out the tapes he recorded. He would rent 570 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: out those tapes to bars, so he was savvy enough 571 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,399 Speaker 1: to not just hand the tapes over to bars because 572 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: he would invent his way out of a living. He 573 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: also created an eight track jukebox player that had a 574 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: microphone attached to it and it was operated via coin slot, 575 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: so you had to put money in in order to 576 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: actually select a song and sing to it, so it 577 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: was an early standalone karaoke machine. However, he did not 578 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: patent this idea uh and again that might not have 579 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: gone over anyway. It does seem like there were a 580 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: few other people who had made similar types of devices 581 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: not long before Daisuke did, so you could make a 582 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: prior art argument that Daisuke would have no right to 583 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: a patent right, But he was the one who kind 584 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 1: of got this moving so that other bars really took notice, 585 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: and before long you had these bars and other types 586 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: of companies that were making their own versions of the 587 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,720 Speaker 1: carry okay machine, and karaoke has a pastime would really 588 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: take off and become a phenomenon. Now, by the way, 589 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: in case you're wondering, what are the my go to 590 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: songs when I'm doing karie okay back when you know 591 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 1: I actually have a voice, Those songs include Prince's song 592 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,479 Speaker 1: seven that's not one of his best known or most 593 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: popular ones, but it's the one I can do, or 594 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 1: Um s O B by Nathaniel Rateliff in the Night 595 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: Sweats great song Warren Zevans Werewolves of London also a 596 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: favorite one of my go two's. Uh so, have you 597 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: ever seen karaoke with me? Chances are you gonna hear 598 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 1: me do at least one of those now, Like I said, 599 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: this was really just a very tiny list of some 600 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: of the people who invented things but didn't become filthy, 601 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: stinking rich off those inventions. There are, of course, plenty 602 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: of other stories that we could talk about. We can 603 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: even talk about cases in which someone like a business owner, 604 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: insisted on have their name appended to every patent application, 605 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: even if the business owner had no direct hand in 606 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: that invention. That's something that has been part of the 607 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: tech industry for more than a century. Edison did it 608 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: all the time. Steve Jobs did it all the time. 609 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,879 Speaker 1: You know, It's not an uncommon thing to see where 610 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: you get someone who is essentially the money you know, 611 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: or the leader, uh, making sure that their name is 612 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: on the patent even if they had no direct you know, 613 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: impact on the development of the technology or the invention. However, 614 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: I feel we can leave all that off for now. 615 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: If you have suggestions for topics I should cover in 616 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 1: future episodes of tech Stuff, there are a couple different 617 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: ways you can reach out to me. One way is 618 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: you can go download the I Heart radio app, which 619 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: is free, and you can navigate over to the tech 620 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: Stuff section. You can use a little microphone icon to 621 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: record a voice message up to thirty seconds for me. UH. 622 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: You can do that either just on the tech Stuff 623 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 1: general page, or you can go into specific episodes and 624 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: leave a message on a specific episode if you want 625 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: to comment on something that I've said and UH, if 626 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 1: you let me know that I can use the audio. 627 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: Maybe I'll use the audio in a future episode. Just 628 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: let me know when you do that, because I'm all 629 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 1: about opt in, not opt out. The other way to 630 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: reach out to me, of course, is on Twitter. The 631 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 1: handle for the show is tech Stuff hs W. I 632 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 1: hope all of you are well. I'm I'm getting there, 633 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,359 Speaker 1: feeling a whole lot better than I was last week. 634 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: Thanks again to everyone who kind of reached out and 635 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: was concerned. I really appreciate it, and I'll talk to 636 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: you again really soon. Text Stuff is an I Heart 637 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,959 Speaker 1: Radio production. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit 638 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 639 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.