WEBVTT - The Racists’ Way to Redistrict | MiniPod 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.520 Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:05.320 Reason Choice Media. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.160 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.360 If you believe that there is a law, please tell me, 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.800 because we just had the voting rights that gut it. 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.720 So please tell me what law, particularly in the South, 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.759 previns us from happening. And I just want to just 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.280 one bit of it. Like I was in the General 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.000 Assembly in South Carolina when we drew these lines, and 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.320 so I've actually seen these lines be drawn. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:31.120 And what I'm. 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.280 Absolutely telling you is places like Tim Scott's old South 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.040 Carolina first District right where he seeded black voters to 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.440 Jim Clyburn. That's exactly what he did. It made Jim 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.360 Cliburn's district more African American. It made Tim Scott's district 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.800 more white so that people would vote for them. 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:49.360 Change that? 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.080 Do you change it by running away and delaying the 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:52.720 process and. 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.600 Not elected commissioners. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:01:03.440 Vote on it? Yeah, that's that. Just again, everybody we 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.160 were talking about in the main episode of Native Lampot 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.520 this week, this whole redistricting fight that's happening around the country. 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.200 What's at stake? And Frankly what's the right way to go. 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:15.400 We've seen members of the legislature. 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.920 Andrew, this is Native Lampod. Welcome home, y'all. This and 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:20.360 mini pod. We just jumped right. 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.080 Why should I say Native lamp welcome. 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.200 We didn't welcome. We just were like Also in the 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:26.520 main episode. 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.759 Was yeah, yeah, we skipped the part welcome home everybody. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.840 This is uh the mini pod this week for Native Lampod. 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.800 We're acting. We're acting like y'all know exactly what's going on. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.200 I'm Andrew Gillum co host along with Angela Rye and 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.920 an Abstenia, our sister Tiffany Tippany Cross who was in 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:45.399 the congo. 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.639 We had a lot to say. So Tif we actually 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:49.160 glad you got here today because we need to take 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.000 all your time. We were claiming your time today. Andrew, 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.200 You know what, this reminded me of starting a podcast 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.240 like that. Reminded me of picking up the phone with 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:58.240 Eddie Rakhas. 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.320 Because he when you literally conversation yes. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.280 So anyway, so anyway what yeah, what do. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.080 You say, daddy? Where are you coming back from? 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:08.320 Yeah, bring me to the top of the conversation. 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.480 Well, we are talking about redistricting and we're trying not 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:16.200 to make this topic glaze over everybody's eyes and brows 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.400 by making it frankly, as front and center and as 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.040 local as we can. Right there, you saw the clip 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:25.760 of our good friend Bacari Sellers, who is a former 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.080 member of the South Carolina Legislature, talking about what his 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:34.400 experience was drawing districts in that state, House districts, center districts, 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.640 and of course congressional districts and that state. And his 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.080 last point of that video he was making to response 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:43.480 to the question of how should these maps be drawn? 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.920 Rather than politically it's his argument was for drawing these 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:51.640 maps using a non partisan redistricting commission to do it 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.280 different than what the State of Texas is the attempting 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.680 to do right now, which is to basically have the legislature, 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:02.360 a political body, draw the congressional districts. Angela, where do 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:07.960 you put the merits of independent versus political drawing of lines? 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.200 So I think again, you know how so next year 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.320 is going to be the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.880 of the declaration of independence. So there's this idea that, like, 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.600 we hold these truths, but who holds these truths? 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:22.799 Right? 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.120 Like every if the truths weren't designed to be held 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.760 by everyone. At what point are they held by everyone? 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.240 And I think what is incredible about our friends who 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:36.200 are institutionalists like Bakari, is there's, you know, this aspiration 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.760 that we are striving to get to and we think 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:44.680 that if we put people in position to think the 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.120 way they ought, then they will do the things they 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.720 ought to do. But that's not always the case. So 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:54.680 when you talk about these independent commissions, Andrew, the question becomes, 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.880 you know, are the independent politically? This woman who he 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.640 was arguing with on on CNN talks about, well, now 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.360 we have AI to draw maps. AI has a bias 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:10.040 because there's someone who built they have right that, so 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:14.120 now it carries their bias. If someone is independent politically, 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.080 well where do they lean economically? Do they believe people 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:21.080 who are poor or disenfranchised or incarcerated deserve to also 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.359 have a vote in Congress? And a lot of people 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:28.440 don't understand that people are counted for the sake of 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:35.320 population in congressional and state districts when they're incarcerated, But 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.600 a lot of them still don't have a vote if 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.120 the laws say so in their state. What is my point, 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:46.159 you can be independent and bipartisan or nonpartisan and still 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:50.880 have bias. I for one, in this country, especially right now, 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.400 while fascists run the government, while J sixers are running 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:58.600 around the country imp implementing their will at their will, 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:03.080 even doging their will an upon us, I struggle with 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.320 the idea that an independent commission can do the right thing. 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:11.679 We have seen where members of Congress, particularly my former 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:16.160 bosses CBC members, have been harmed by these independent commissions. 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.359 Bacari brought up something where he talked about Congressman Clyburn. 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:24.039 Congressman Clyburn, who I love, has been criticized often for 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.159 maintaining a district that I believe if someone could fact 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.760 check this on the show and text it to me, 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:33.920 but I believe his district is at least sixty percent black. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.160 I do want to triple check that, because a lot 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.960 of members of Congress say at this point, mister Cliburn 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.640 really doesn't need a sixty percent plus black district because 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.120 of how much he's impacted South Carolina all the things 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.120 that he's done. Well, mister Cliburn would argue, well, this 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.880 is for the person who comes after me, right, And 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:55.560 some people would still say, well, he doesn't need it. 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.400 Maybe it's fifty, maybe it's forty. On the on the 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.920 other hand, I promise you I'm going somewhere. On the 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:06.200 other hand, Congressman Bobby Scott has said, I don't need 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:10.080 a fifty sixty seventy percent black district. Carve up my 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:14.560 district so it's more geographically aligned and in tune with 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.560 what we need to get accomplished geographically. Because I could 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.960 win with a thirty five forty percent black district. Let's 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:26.840 create another black district in Virginia, which they've done so 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:32.080 now Jennifer McClellan occupies that seat. It was a seat 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:36.599 that was formerly held by Donald mckeechen, who got rest. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:41.400 His soul is no longer with us, lolo. I appreciate that, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.479 but it was for mister Cliburn, not Thompson. So all 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.000 good there. I think we only have one majority district 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.839 in Mississippi period. But I'm actually looking for the numbers 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.720 for mister Cliburn because their a position is that there 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:56.240 could be two majority minority districts in South Carolina. My 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:00.720 point in saying all of that is, so mister Cliburn 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.080 is forty seven percent black, and so I don't know 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.600 what the argument has been historically. I know before it 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.960 was they could at least carve out one more black district. 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.160 He agrees with that, but for whatever reason, that number 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.040 was higher. So I'm saying all that to say independent 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.880 or not, it's never truly independent AI or not. It 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.640 doesn't mean that it's no longer biased. But I think 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.840 right now what we are having to reckon with is 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.920 our permanent interest. That means that we have to move 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.720 in our reality. It's a reality of war. It is 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.640 not an ideal It is an ideology war, but it's 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.920 not an ideal situation. We're not in an ideal situation, 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.520 so we shouldn't have ideal commissions. 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:45.280 That's fair, I mean, I think so in an equalized 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.160 in a righteous world, where all things, you know, were equal, 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.560 when people follow the law and didn't detempt to manipulate 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:53.720 the laws to their own political advantage, which is what 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.000 we're up against right now. The long term impact of 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:01.000 allowing the Texas legislature to reach draw this district and 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.800 we draw the lines in the rules to advantage them 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.559 by five seats if they're in results and they're in goal, 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.400 may be the demise of the democracy as we know it, 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.880 meaning those members can be holdouts when it comes around 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.720 to the next point of counting the electoral college and 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:18.800 they say we reject you know, there's a majority there 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.200 to reject what the electoral college members say and leave 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.720 Donald Trump in office. We've never had that scenario, but 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.560 we also never had that scenario tested. And right now 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.960 under these lawless folks who are so power hungry, we 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.920 don't really know what we will get as a result 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.520 of the conundrum. I think we find ourselves, particularly those 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.080 of us who are kind of good government champions, you know, 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.360 that we should set the rules to be fair and 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.360 equitable and then let how the politics of it play out. 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.800 Is that in many democratic states they have already gone 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.000 the route of setting up these independent, these quote independent 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:55.640 redistricting commissions, seeding away the power of the governor or 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.679 the legislature from being able to bigfoot and have their 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.920 way over these commissions. Well republican states, including you know 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.200 in my own, they continue to allow the political drawing 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.880 of lines. They have no interest in good government. Their 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.840 only interest is in maintaining and keeping power, not to 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.000 ensure that we've got a fair and representative democracy. And 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.439 so we're hearing from democratic governors across the country saying, hey, look, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.800 if y'all have changed in the rules, we're willing to 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.040 meet you there. We will fight you based off of 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.040 those rules being changed, except not being able to do 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.360 it unilaterally because they've got these redistrict commissions that are 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.760 right now empowered to do what it is that they've 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.000 been tasked with doing, which is to draw these districts, 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.360 and to do so without any partisan interest whatsoever, but 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:48.040 rather than fairness around those maps. So democratic governors are 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.959 in many ways already handicapped in this fight because they 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.959 are bound by these redistrict commissions. I think what made 0:09:55.000 --> 0:10:00.600 Kathy Hochel so distinct, as we've heard her speak this week, 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.719 is that they too have a Registrian Commission, which she 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:08.360 is prepared to disband, yeah, in concert with other legislative bodies, 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.160 so that they will have the ability to do with 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.000 the Republicans in Texas are doing. What's just to say, fine, 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.800 we'll just draw Republicans right out of their seats and 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.160 make sure that we only create seats that are accessible 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.720 by Democrats. Is it the is it the long term 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:24.760 fair thing to do? Or is it the right thing 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.280 in this moment to do to eventually save off this 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:28.760 attack on democracy? 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.680 Can she do that? Andrew? For those listening at home 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:35.719 that are saying, if there's an independent commission that was 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.160 stood up like by the state legislature, I know all 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.240 of these states are different. Who has the authority in 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.200 New York, for example, to do this? And is it 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:46.880 different for Gavin? We have a clip for him. 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.319 Yes, I think we do have a clip of Gavin 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.040 and we should actually hear that on the other side 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.199 of this. But it does matter how they are stood up. 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.120 And some states it's been by referendum, and the voters 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.080 by referendum and changing the constitution through referendum have decided 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.840 what the process is. And in other states, the legislature 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:08.959 itself have established these commissions. And if they are in 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.160 those cases established by the legislature or by an order 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:16.240 of the governor, the institution that established them are the 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:20.440 institutions that can dissolve or reform them in many cases, 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.320 So in my state it might be through constitutional amendment, 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.280 and Texas it appears that the legislature maintains power, and 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.240 New York it sounds like the legislature through a legislative 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.520 process can reform that process, but I have to take it. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.960 I've got to look deeper into the government the statutes. 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.360 But if the governor is saying so, when the legislative 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.079 branch is concurring, it sounds to me like the legislative 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:44.920 process is where the reform would take place. 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.880 And yeah, okay, So then do they conven a special 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:50.079 session just like. 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.600 I think they are in session? So it would be 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.040 a matter of them and they control both the House 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:57.560 and the Senate there in New York, in New York 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.560 and New York the state of New York, that would 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.480 would allow allowed them to do this and to do 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:04.880 it in concert with the law without subverting the law. 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.920 Okay, but we should hear from California. 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.280 California, because I think there's a different test there, even 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.280 though that is the most populous state and probably the 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.400 state that could yield the most seats. The last estimation 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.320 I heard was potential of nine seats being made permanently 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:25.400 democratic if the California legislature were to enforce a new 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.520 partisan map that would give Democrats the advantage up to 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:33.160 nine seats. Trumping upon the pardon the pund trumping, Trump's 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.480 effort in Texas, which well, you'll five seats. Let's play 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:37.440 that clip from California. 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.760 You know, California is one of several blue states now 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.440 looking to counter at Texas and President Trump's plan. 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:44.400 Here's what we know. 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.640 The governor wants new maps to go before voters in November, 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.559 but today candidate for governor Steve Hilton announced heam plans 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.880 to file legal action to block redistricting if the governor 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.120 moves forward. Hilton calls the move a power grab by 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:58.080 state democrats. 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.679 Districts should be drawn by an independent commission once every 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:06.320 ten years, crucially following a census so that you know 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.800 where people live, so that the districts reflect population. 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:15.640 I didn't realize the the uh that the governor was 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:17.480 trying to get it on the ballot this year. I 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.040 didn't know that part of it. I thought he was 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:21.160 trying to change it legislatively. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.640 But yeah, and I think, but I think it's to 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.360 your point. If the if the people voted for that, 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.120 what the power does he have to you know, does 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:34.120 he challenge it? It's the ballot courts. It just had Wow, it's. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.960 Ballot so stood up by the their commission, stood up 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.640 by the by the people. To a constitutional amendment probably, 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.599 and now it's going back to them for their approval 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:48.120 to change those maps. This this this cycle, and again 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.200 I think the data on California, a map that was 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:55.959 actually presented through the course of conversation this week from California, 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.640 is that they can pick up nine seats were they 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.679 to politically duramander the seats in the state of California. 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.920 And again that would be four more than the five 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.040 that California that Texas is trying to is trying to create. 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:13.199 So I wanted to just look to see which states 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:21.000 have independent commissions, which ones have political commissions, which ones 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:28.400 have advisory commissions, and then backup commissions. There are eight 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:35.280 states with independent commissions. There are three political commissions, three 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.360 backup commissions, and four advisory commissions, which we have. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.600 To assume the rest of the country then must be legislative. 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:50.080 That's correct. And so in Connecticut, for example, there's a 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:55.040 backup commission. It says super majority, no veto and they 0:14:55.240 --> 0:15:00.560 their last map was drawn by the state court the 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.480 Arizona it's an independent commission, but it doesn't tell me 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:09.840 how it was stood up. Idaho is another one. Michigan 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:16.440 is another one. Nonpartisan independent Montana. New Jersey has a 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.120 political commission, so that would be an interesting one. The 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:24.960 New York has the independent Commission with the supermajority, and 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.239 it says that their last map was drawn by the legislature. 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:32.680 So what I think is interesting is which states have 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.360 maps that were last drawn by legislatures to the extent 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.880 that they're blue. They change. But here is the caution 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:44.960 I'd offer you, Andrew, even in our frisky fight, you know, 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.360 we own control most of the state legislation. 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.280 Oh, the majority control by Republicans. 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.320 Yeah, like super majority, Like, isn't it thirty two? 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.960 I mean, it's pretty bad. The only comfort I taken 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.880 the majority Republicans control of legislatures is that in many 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.360 those states the populations have not changed to the point 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:06.720 where they get new seats in any way. So in 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:07.280 each they. 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.120 Can eliminate the seats we see we have. 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.240 Correct, they can decrease the power and those states, I 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.240 think that would throw the course into a WorldWind, because 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.720 in most of those cases, there's no doubt about it, 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.080 they are going to land back into the courts. The 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:26.320 course will end up drawing maps for the country. To 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.200 be quite frank and I misspoke. 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:32.520 It's the Republicans control a majority of seats in twenty 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.040 nine state houses, which is still a majority, it's not 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.800 a super majority, and thirty state Senates. And so what 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:45.080 somebody needs to do is overlay which ones and then 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.000 which of those are independently controlled. Because what you don't 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.160 want to do, we're already in a constitutional crisis in 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.360 the sixtieth anniversary of the Voting Rights Act. Which you 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.760 don't want to do is throw us into a state 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:01.920 based constitutional crisis too, where power is you know, being 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.639 swayed by, you know, by a whim like it's just 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:06.520 I don't know what else. 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.320 But that's what we mean when we say in arms race, 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.280 this is a total race to the bottom. If we 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:16.000 get Republicans and democratic states replicating one another, a back 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.080 and forth and back and forth. And by the way, 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.800 we can't even we can't even angela break it down 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.800 to Republicans health states versus Democratic states because in some 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:29.040 of those states they're real institutional institutionalists who have their 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.359 own political reasons as to why they would or could 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.639 or could not do some of these kinds of things. 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.040 It would it would create quite a conspiracy for these 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:42.000 states Republican health states to have to get together under 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.280 the direction of the White House and basically start determining 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.480 where to pick up pick off, convene these conventions, convene 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.000 redistricting bodies, and so on and so forth to map 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.600 their power, and Democrats would have to do the same thing. 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.040 We used to have people who cared enough about the 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.960 letter of the law not to drive us down this road. 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.639 But where we are right now is the obsession with 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:08.360 the concentration of power is prepared to seed and up 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.879 in everything that we have once known to be true, 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.399 all in the pursuit of power. And I don't know 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.840 anything that has ever ended correctly, that has ended ever 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:21.000 right in pursuit of power. Those things tend to corrupt 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.760 themselves and blow up the whole system. That's just where 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:25.080 we are. 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.200 So if we're saying that the only way for us 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.320 to fight back, if we're saying, you know, we know 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:42.800 that we would like to be an ideal, but we're 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.520 keeping it all the way real. So if we're doing that, 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.160 and we know that to stop the hemorrhage, we do 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:53.159 have to consolidate power, and we yeah, we have to 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.680 beat them. So isn't that still a powagraph. We still 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.159 think it's a paragraph for righteousness, but it is a 0:18:58.160 --> 0:18:58.800 power graph. 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.040 It is a fight for power, there's no doubt about that. 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.040 But either think what the fight that Democrats that are 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.040 having that is different than Republicans. It's Democrats are not 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.680 trying to rig the system. They're trying to keep a fit. 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.359 They're trying to have a system a floor in place. 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.440 Texas is trying to overrun the floor. They're saying, we're 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.320 not interested in maps that properly give representation to the 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.639 people in our state. What they're interested in is a 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.680 map that produces Republicans only. There's a big difference between 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.679 representation and then a difference between power. The right representation 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.359 for the purpose of power. Well, and that's what Republicans 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.960 are attempting, you know, in this case to accomplish is 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:39.399 to power grab. And I think that what Democrats are 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.399 hoping for with Kathy holkal is hoping for by making 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:46.359 this threat is that the threat of mutually assured destruction 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.280 will be enough to stay the hand of other people 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.760 from following down Texas's path. Basically, it's a shot over 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:54.680 the bout that says, Texas, if you want to go there. 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.080 We'll meet you there. State of New York, and then 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.800 some other state. Let's say Florida, the third largest state 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:02.800 in the country, says, oh, New York, if you want 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.280 to go there, we will meet you there. And then 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.040 California wais in and says, oh, we're the most populous 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.600 state in the country. If you want to go there, Florida, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:12.760 we'll meet you there. And what do you have right there? 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.720 The four largest states in the country have just started 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:16.080 a war. 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.639 Well, let me ask you this. Okay, let's try to 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.040 take party out of it. We're gonna we're gonna try 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.800 to be an independent commission. Oh lord, let's see how 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:29.280 well we do here. Republicans, you say, are engaging in 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.800 a power grab. In order to stop the hemorrhage of 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.240 said power grab, Democrats are doing. 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:38.040 What they are, meeting them there by saying we will 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:42.240 draw our seats to increase power democratic power. 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.880 Okay, now, hold on, so are you opposed. Let's say 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.040 that Texas is like that, bish, that's what you want 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.520 to do. Now, I'm gonna get rid of all the Democrats. 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:55.600 I'm gonna make it an all Republican you know, and 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.480 say that that's what they do. You said a moment 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:02.479 ago that we're just increasing the number of democratic seats. 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.920 We're not making it all democratic. If they go all Republican, 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.480 do you want New York to meet them and to 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.720 be with the ships and say where all dims? Now? 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.800 I think you have to show up at a gunfight 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:20.240 with a bazuka. Yeah. And we didn't ask for this, no. 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:22.800 Of course, But I'm just saying, so in your mind, 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:25.720 is it? Is it not a power grab? 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:25.960 Two? 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.280 Because it's a neutralization strategy. 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.720 It is a neutralization strategy. We didn't and by the way, 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:37.040 we didn't start this. You say it don't start not 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:40.000 but but what But what we're saying here is is 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:42.080 Republican says you are not the only ones who can 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:44.679 play this game. Yeah right, they're acting as it. 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.240 So what's the floor, Andrew? I think so now you 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:49.680 know I got anxiety. Yes, so I have anxiety about 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:52.879 this because I'm like, I don't see this go like 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:56.280 you know, like you know, no, I feel like it's 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.359 I feel like every red line in the stand that 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:04.560