1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media. 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 3: If you believe that there is a law, please tell me, 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 3: because we just had the voting rights that gut it. 6 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 3: So please tell me what law, particularly in the South, 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 3: previns us from happening. And I just want to just 8 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 3: one bit of it. Like I was in the General 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 3: Assembly in South Carolina when we drew these lines, and 10 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 3: so I've actually seen these lines be drawn. 11 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: And what I'm. 12 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 3: Absolutely telling you is places like Tim Scott's old South 13 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 3: Carolina first District right where he seeded black voters to 14 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 3: Jim Clyburn. That's exactly what he did. It made Jim 15 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 3: Cliburn's district more African American. It made Tim Scott's district 16 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 3: more white so that people would vote for them. 17 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 4: Change that? 18 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 2: Do you change it by running away and delaying the 19 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: process and. 20 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 3: Not elected commissioners. 21 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: Vote on it? Yeah, that's that. Just again, everybody we 22 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: were talking about in the main episode of Native Lampot 23 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: this week, this whole redistricting fight that's happening around the country. 24 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: What's at stake? And Frankly what's the right way to go. 25 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: We've seen members of the legislature. 26 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 4: Andrew, this is Native Lampod. Welcome home, y'all. This and 27 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 4: mini pod. We just jumped right. 28 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: Why should I say Native lamp welcome. 29 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 4: We didn't welcome. We just were like Also in the 30 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 4: main episode. 31 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: Was yeah, yeah, we skipped the part welcome home everybody. 32 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: This is uh the mini pod this week for Native Lampod. 33 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: We're acting. We're acting like y'all know exactly what's going on. 34 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Gillum co host along with Angela Rye and 35 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: an Abstenia, our sister Tiffany Tippany Cross who was in 36 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: the congo. 37 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,639 Speaker 4: We had a lot to say. So Tif we actually 38 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 4: glad you got here today because we need to take 39 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 4: all your time. We were claiming your time today. Andrew, 40 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 4: You know what, this reminded me of starting a podcast 41 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 4: like that. Reminded me of picking up the phone with 42 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 4: Eddie Rakhas. 43 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: Because he when you literally conversation yes. 44 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 4: So anyway, so anyway what yeah, what do. 45 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: You say, daddy? Where are you coming back from? 46 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, bring me to the top of the conversation. 47 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: Well, we are talking about redistricting and we're trying not 48 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: to make this topic glaze over everybody's eyes and brows 49 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: by making it frankly, as front and center and as 50 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: local as we can. Right there, you saw the clip 51 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: of our good friend Bacari Sellers, who is a former 52 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: member of the South Carolina Legislature, talking about what his 53 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: experience was drawing districts in that state, House districts, center districts, 54 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: and of course congressional districts and that state. And his 55 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: last point of that video he was making to response 56 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: to the question of how should these maps be drawn? 57 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: Rather than politically it's his argument was for drawing these 58 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: maps using a non partisan redistricting commission to do it 59 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: different than what the State of Texas is the attempting 60 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: to do right now, which is to basically have the legislature, 61 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: a political body, draw the congressional districts. Angela, where do 62 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: you put the merits of independent versus political drawing of lines? 63 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 4: So I think again, you know how so next year 64 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 4: is going to be the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary 65 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 4: of the declaration of independence. So there's this idea that, like, 66 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 4: we hold these truths, but who holds these truths? 67 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 3: Right? 68 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 4: Like every if the truths weren't designed to be held 69 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 4: by everyone. At what point are they held by everyone? 70 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 4: And I think what is incredible about our friends who 71 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 4: are institutionalists like Bakari, is there's, you know, this aspiration 72 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 4: that we are striving to get to and we think 73 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 4: that if we put people in position to think the 74 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 4: way they ought, then they will do the things they 75 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 4: ought to do. But that's not always the case. So 76 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 4: when you talk about these independent commissions, Andrew, the question becomes, 77 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 4: you know, are the independent politically? This woman who he 78 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 4: was arguing with on on CNN talks about, well, now 79 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 4: we have AI to draw maps. AI has a bias 80 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 4: because there's someone who built they have right that, so 81 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 4: now it carries their bias. If someone is independent politically, 82 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 4: well where do they lean economically? Do they believe people 83 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 4: who are poor or disenfranchised or incarcerated deserve to also 84 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 4: have a vote in Congress? And a lot of people 85 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 4: don't understand that people are counted for the sake of 86 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 4: population in congressional and state districts when they're incarcerated, But 87 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 4: a lot of them still don't have a vote if 88 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 4: the laws say so in their state. What is my point, 89 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 4: you can be independent and bipartisan or nonpartisan and still 90 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 4: have bias. I for one, in this country, especially right now, 91 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 4: while fascists run the government, while J sixers are running 92 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 4: around the country imp implementing their will at their will, 93 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 4: even doging their will an upon us, I struggle with 94 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 4: the idea that an independent commission can do the right thing. 95 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 4: We have seen where members of Congress, particularly my former 96 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 4: bosses CBC members, have been harmed by these independent commissions. 97 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 4: Bacari brought up something where he talked about Congressman Clyburn. 98 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 4: Congressman Clyburn, who I love, has been criticized often for 99 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 4: maintaining a district that I believe if someone could fact 100 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 4: check this on the show and text it to me, 101 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 4: but I believe his district is at least sixty percent black. 102 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 4: I do want to triple check that, because a lot 103 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 4: of members of Congress say at this point, mister Cliburn 104 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 4: really doesn't need a sixty percent plus black district because 105 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 4: of how much he's impacted South Carolina all the things 106 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 4: that he's done. Well, mister Cliburn would argue, well, this 107 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 4: is for the person who comes after me, right, And 108 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 4: some people would still say, well, he doesn't need it. 109 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 4: Maybe it's fifty, maybe it's forty. On the on the 110 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 4: other hand, I promise you I'm going somewhere. On the 111 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 4: other hand, Congressman Bobby Scott has said, I don't need 112 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 4: a fifty sixty seventy percent black district. Carve up my 113 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 4: district so it's more geographically aligned and in tune with 114 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 4: what we need to get accomplished geographically. Because I could 115 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 4: win with a thirty five forty percent black district. Let's 116 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 4: create another black district in Virginia, which they've done so 117 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 4: now Jennifer McClellan occupies that seat. It was a seat 118 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 4: that was formerly held by Donald mckeechen, who got rest. 119 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 4: His soul is no longer with us, lolo. I appreciate that, 120 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 4: but it was for mister Cliburn, not Thompson. So all 121 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 4: good there. I think we only have one majority district 122 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 4: in Mississippi period. But I'm actually looking for the numbers 123 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 4: for mister Cliburn because their a position is that there 124 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 4: could be two majority minority districts in South Carolina. My 125 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 4: point in saying all of that is, so mister Cliburn 126 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 4: is forty seven percent black, and so I don't know 127 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 4: what the argument has been historically. I know before it 128 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 4: was they could at least carve out one more black district. 129 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 4: He agrees with that, but for whatever reason, that number 130 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 4: was higher. So I'm saying all that to say independent 131 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 4: or not, it's never truly independent AI or not. It 132 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 4: doesn't mean that it's no longer biased. But I think 133 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 4: right now what we are having to reckon with is 134 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 4: our permanent interest. That means that we have to move 135 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 4: in our reality. It's a reality of war. It is 136 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 4: not an ideal It is an ideology war, but it's 137 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 4: not an ideal situation. We're not in an ideal situation, 138 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 4: so we shouldn't have ideal commissions. 139 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: That's fair, I mean, I think so in an equalized 140 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: in a righteous world, where all things, you know, were equal, 141 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: when people follow the law and didn't detempt to manipulate 142 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: the laws to their own political advantage, which is what 143 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: we're up against right now. The long term impact of 144 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: allowing the Texas legislature to reach draw this district and 145 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: we draw the lines in the rules to advantage them 146 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,559 Speaker 1: by five seats if they're in results and they're in goal, 147 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: may be the demise of the democracy as we know it, 148 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: meaning those members can be holdouts when it comes around 149 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: to the next point of counting the electoral college and 150 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: they say we reject you know, there's a majority there 151 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: to reject what the electoral college members say and leave 152 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: Donald Trump in office. We've never had that scenario, but 153 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: we also never had that scenario tested. And right now 154 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: under these lawless folks who are so power hungry, we 155 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: don't really know what we will get as a result 156 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: of the conundrum. I think we find ourselves, particularly those 157 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: of us who are kind of good government champions, you know, 158 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: that we should set the rules to be fair and 159 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: equitable and then let how the politics of it play out. 160 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: Is that in many democratic states they have already gone 161 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: the route of setting up these independent, these quote independent 162 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: redistricting commissions, seeding away the power of the governor or 163 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: the legislature from being able to bigfoot and have their 164 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: way over these commissions. Well republican states, including you know 165 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: in my own, they continue to allow the political drawing 166 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: of lines. They have no interest in good government. Their 167 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: only interest is in maintaining and keeping power, not to 168 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: ensure that we've got a fair and representative democracy. And 169 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: so we're hearing from democratic governors across the country saying, hey, look, 170 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: if y'all have changed in the rules, we're willing to 171 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: meet you there. We will fight you based off of 172 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: those rules being changed, except not being able to do 173 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: it unilaterally because they've got these redistrict commissions that are 174 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: right now empowered to do what it is that they've 175 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: been tasked with doing, which is to draw these districts, 176 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: and to do so without any partisan interest whatsoever, but 177 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: rather than fairness around those maps. So democratic governors are 178 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: in many ways already handicapped in this fight because they 179 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,959 Speaker 1: are bound by these redistrict commissions. I think what made 180 00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: Kathy Hochel so distinct, as we've heard her speak this week, 181 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 1: is that they too have a Registrian Commission, which she 182 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: is prepared to disband, yeah, in concert with other legislative bodies, 183 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: so that they will have the ability to do with 184 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: the Republicans in Texas are doing. What's just to say, fine, 185 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: we'll just draw Republicans right out of their seats and 186 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: make sure that we only create seats that are accessible 187 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: by Democrats. Is it the is it the long term 188 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: fair thing to do? Or is it the right thing 189 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: in this moment to do to eventually save off this 190 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: attack on democracy? 191 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 4: Can she do that? Andrew? For those listening at home 192 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 4: that are saying, if there's an independent commission that was 193 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 4: stood up like by the state legislature, I know all 194 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 4: of these states are different. Who has the authority in 195 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 4: New York, for example, to do this? And is it 196 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 4: different for Gavin? We have a clip for him. 197 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: Yes, I think we do have a clip of Gavin 198 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: and we should actually hear that on the other side 199 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: of this. But it does matter how they are stood up. 200 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: And some states it's been by referendum, and the voters 201 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: by referendum and changing the constitution through referendum have decided 202 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: what the process is. And in other states, the legislature 203 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: itself have established these commissions. And if they are in 204 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: those cases established by the legislature or by an order 205 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: of the governor, the institution that established them are the 206 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: institutions that can dissolve or reform them in many cases, 207 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: So in my state it might be through constitutional amendment, 208 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: and Texas it appears that the legislature maintains power, and 209 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: New York it sounds like the legislature through a legislative 210 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: process can reform that process, but I have to take it. 211 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: I've got to look deeper into the government the statutes. 212 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: But if the governor is saying so, when the legislative 213 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: branch is concurring, it sounds to me like the legislative 214 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: process is where the reform would take place. 215 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 4: And yeah, okay, So then do they conven a special 216 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 4: session just like. 217 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: I think they are in session? So it would be 218 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: a matter of them and they control both the House 219 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: and the Senate there in New York, in New York 220 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: and New York the state of New York, that would 221 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: would allow allowed them to do this and to do 222 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: it in concert with the law without subverting the law. 223 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 4: Okay, but we should hear from California. 224 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: California, because I think there's a different test there, even 225 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: though that is the most populous state and probably the 226 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: state that could yield the most seats. The last estimation 227 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: I heard was potential of nine seats being made permanently 228 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: democratic if the California legislature were to enforce a new 229 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: partisan map that would give Democrats the advantage up to 230 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: nine seats. Trumping upon the pardon the pund trumping, Trump's 231 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: effort in Texas, which well, you'll five seats. Let's play 232 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: that clip from California. 233 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 5: You know, California is one of several blue states now 234 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 5: looking to counter at Texas and President Trump's plan. 235 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: Here's what we know. 236 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 5: The governor wants new maps to go before voters in November, 237 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 5: but today candidate for governor Steve Hilton announced heam plans 238 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 5: to file legal action to block redistricting if the governor 239 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 5: moves forward. Hilton calls the move a power grab by 240 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 5: state democrats. 241 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 2: Districts should be drawn by an independent commission once every 242 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: ten years, crucially following a census so that you know 243 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: where people live, so that the districts reflect population. 244 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: I didn't realize the the uh that the governor was 245 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: trying to get it on the ballot this year. I 246 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: didn't know that part of it. I thought he was 247 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: trying to change it legislatively. 248 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 4: But yeah, and I think, but I think it's to 249 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 4: your point. If the if the people voted for that, 250 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 4: what the power does he have to you know, does 251 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 4: he challenge it? It's the ballot courts. It just had Wow, it's. 252 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: Ballot so stood up by the their commission, stood up 253 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: by the by the people. To a constitutional amendment probably, 254 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,599 Speaker 1: and now it's going back to them for their approval 255 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: to change those maps. This this this cycle, and again 256 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: I think the data on California, a map that was 257 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: actually presented through the course of conversation this week from California, 258 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: is that they can pick up nine seats were they 259 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: to politically duramander the seats in the state of California. 260 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: And again that would be four more than the five 261 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: that California that Texas is trying to is trying to create. 262 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 4: So I wanted to just look to see which states 263 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 4: have independent commissions, which ones have political commissions, which ones 264 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 4: have advisory commissions, and then backup commissions. There are eight 265 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 4: states with independent commissions. There are three political commissions, three 266 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 4: backup commissions, and four advisory commissions, which we have. 267 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: To assume the rest of the country then must be legislative. 268 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 4: That's correct. And so in Connecticut, for example, there's a 269 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 4: backup commission. It says super majority, no veto and they 270 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 4: their last map was drawn by the state court the 271 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 4: Arizona it's an independent commission, but it doesn't tell me 272 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 4: how it was stood up. Idaho is another one. Michigan 273 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 4: is another one. Nonpartisan independent Montana. New Jersey has a 274 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 4: political commission, so that would be an interesting one. The 275 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 4: New York has the independent Commission with the supermajority, and 276 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,239 Speaker 4: it says that their last map was drawn by the legislature. 277 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 4: So what I think is interesting is which states have 278 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 4: maps that were last drawn by legislatures to the extent 279 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 4: that they're blue. They change. But here is the caution 280 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 4: I'd offer you, Andrew, even in our frisky fight, you know, 281 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 4: we own control most of the state legislation. 282 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: Oh, the majority control by Republicans. 283 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, like super majority, Like, isn't it thirty two? 284 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's pretty bad. The only comfort I taken 285 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: the majority Republicans control of legislatures is that in many 286 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: those states the populations have not changed to the point 287 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: where they get new seats in any way. So in 288 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: each they. 289 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 4: Can eliminate the seats we see we have. 290 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: Correct, they can decrease the power and those states, I 291 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: think that would throw the course into a WorldWind, because 292 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: in most of those cases, there's no doubt about it, 293 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: they are going to land back into the courts. The 294 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: course will end up drawing maps for the country. To 295 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: be quite frank and I misspoke. 296 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 4: It's the Republicans control a majority of seats in twenty 297 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 4: nine state houses, which is still a majority, it's not 298 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 4: a super majority, and thirty state Senates. And so what 299 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 4: somebody needs to do is overlay which ones and then 300 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 4: which of those are independently controlled. Because what you don't 301 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 4: want to do, we're already in a constitutional crisis in 302 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 4: the sixtieth anniversary of the Voting Rights Act. Which you 303 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 4: don't want to do is throw us into a state 304 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 4: based constitutional crisis too, where power is you know, being 305 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 4: swayed by, you know, by a whim like it's just 306 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 4: I don't know what else. 307 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: But that's what we mean when we say in arms race, 308 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: this is a total race to the bottom. If we 309 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: get Republicans and democratic states replicating one another, a back 310 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: and forth and back and forth. And by the way, 311 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: we can't even we can't even angela break it down 312 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: to Republicans health states versus Democratic states because in some 313 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: of those states they're real institutional institutionalists who have their 314 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: own political reasons as to why they would or could 315 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: or could not do some of these kinds of things. 316 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: It would it would create quite a conspiracy for these 317 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: states Republican health states to have to get together under 318 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: the direction of the White House and basically start determining 319 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: where to pick up pick off, convene these conventions, convene 320 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: redistricting bodies, and so on and so forth to map 321 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: their power, and Democrats would have to do the same thing. 322 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: We used to have people who cared enough about the 323 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: letter of the law not to drive us down this road. 324 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: But where we are right now is the obsession with 325 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: the concentration of power is prepared to seed and up 326 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: in everything that we have once known to be true, 327 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: all in the pursuit of power. And I don't know 328 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: anything that has ever ended correctly, that has ended ever 329 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: right in pursuit of power. Those things tend to corrupt 330 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: themselves and blow up the whole system. That's just where 331 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: we are. 332 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 4: So if we're saying that the only way for us 333 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 4: to fight back, if we're saying, you know, we know 334 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 4: that we would like to be an ideal, but we're 335 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 4: keeping it all the way real. So if we're doing that, 336 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 4: and we know that to stop the hemorrhage, we do 337 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 4: have to consolidate power, and we yeah, we have to 338 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 4: beat them. So isn't that still a powagraph. We still 339 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 4: think it's a paragraph for righteousness, but it is a 340 00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 4: power graph. 341 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: It is a fight for power, there's no doubt about that. 342 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: But either think what the fight that Democrats that are 343 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: having that is different than Republicans. It's Democrats are not 344 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: trying to rig the system. They're trying to keep a fit. 345 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: They're trying to have a system a floor in place. 346 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: Texas is trying to overrun the floor. They're saying, we're 347 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: not interested in maps that properly give representation to the 348 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: people in our state. What they're interested in is a 349 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: map that produces Republicans only. There's a big difference between 350 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: representation and then a difference between power. The right representation 351 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: for the purpose of power. Well, and that's what Republicans 352 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: are attempting, you know, in this case to accomplish is 353 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: to power grab. And I think that what Democrats are 354 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: hoping for with Kathy holkal is hoping for by making 355 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: this threat is that the threat of mutually assured destruction 356 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: will be enough to stay the hand of other people 357 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: from following down Texas's path. Basically, it's a shot over 358 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: the bout that says, Texas, if you want to go there. 359 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: We'll meet you there. State of New York, and then 360 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: some other state. Let's say Florida, the third largest state 361 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: in the country, says, oh, New York, if you want 362 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: to go there, we will meet you there. And then 363 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: California wais in and says, oh, we're the most populous 364 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: state in the country. If you want to go there, Florida, 365 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: we'll meet you there. And what do you have right there? 366 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: The four largest states in the country have just started 367 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: a war. 368 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 4: Well, let me ask you this. Okay, let's try to 369 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 4: take party out of it. We're gonna we're gonna try 370 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 4: to be an independent commission. Oh lord, let's see how 371 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 4: well we do here. Republicans, you say, are engaging in 372 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 4: a power grab. In order to stop the hemorrhage of 373 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 4: said power grab, Democrats are doing. 374 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: What they are, meeting them there by saying we will 375 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: draw our seats to increase power democratic power. 376 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 4: Okay, now, hold on, so are you opposed. Let's say 377 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 4: that Texas is like that, bish, that's what you want 378 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 4: to do. Now, I'm gonna get rid of all the Democrats. 379 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 4: I'm gonna make it an all Republican you know, and 380 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 4: say that that's what they do. You said a moment 381 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,479 Speaker 4: ago that we're just increasing the number of democratic seats. 382 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 4: We're not making it all democratic. If they go all Republican, 383 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 4: do you want New York to meet them and to 384 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 4: be with the ships and say where all dims? Now? 385 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: I think you have to show up at a gunfight 386 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: with a bazuka. Yeah. And we didn't ask for this, no. 387 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 4: Of course, But I'm just saying, so in your mind, 388 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 4: is it? Is it not a power grab? 389 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 3: Two? 390 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 4: Because it's a neutralization strategy. 391 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: It is a neutralization strategy. We didn't and by the way, 392 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: we didn't start this. You say it don't start not 393 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: but but what But what we're saying here is is 394 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: Republican says you are not the only ones who can 395 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: play this game. Yeah right, they're acting as it. 396 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 4: So what's the floor, Andrew? I think so now you 397 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 4: know I got anxiety. Yes, so I have anxiety about 398 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 4: this because I'm like, I don't see this go like 399 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 4: you know, like you know, no, I feel like it's 400 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 4: I feel like every red line in the stand that 401 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 4: that that they cross. Then we have another re Yes. 402 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 4: So then if you walk this. 403 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: Out, it's mutually assured destruction. You said that's what that's 404 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: what that's what this is. So then this is why 405 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: Russia doesn't fire a nuclear weapon at the United States. 406 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: This is why the United States does not fire a 407 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: nuclear weapon at Russia or the EU, or or India 408 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: because or Pakistan, because these countries all have first strike 409 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,719 Speaker 1: capabilities to the United States. So that's why nuclear is 410 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: off the table, because we are all assured mutual destruction 411 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: if one does it. And that's why we're making this 412 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: argument here is if you do it, you're going to 413 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: be met by the same thing. 414 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 4: So is that why they pushed so we started this 415 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 4: this this this mini pod with Bakari's clip. Is that 416 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 4: why they started to drift or shift towards into in 417 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 4: the commissions. 418 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, they began the move toward independent commissions so that 419 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: we didn't have this sort of warfare breakout where you 420 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: just have politicians choosing their voters rather than the voters 421 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: choosing their members of Congress or choosing who they want 422 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: to latch. 423 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 4: Then voters, they're not the undoing of democracy. 424 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, and it's unfortunately been 425 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: that unequal an unfair path for quite a while. We 426 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: just hadn't seen this type of threatened escalation during a 427 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: mid term descential meaning in the middle of the way 428 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: of the dissential discential census, or were you redrawing of 429 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: the line. So no facts have changed, really nothing, no 430 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: facts have changed. They're simply using the numbers that are 431 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: on the table to manipulate the map to their advantage. 432 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: That's okay, they are. 433 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 4: Let me tell you this, and I know we this 434 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 4: is a long rap time. This is my last thing. 435 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 4: This is my last thing though, So you know, we 436 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 4: had an election in Seattle and in King County this week. 437 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 4: Right now as I'm talking to you, it's still next 438 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 4: connect with a progressive white woman that may end up 439 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 4: beating not only a black mayor, but a black mayor 440 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 4: is a family friend here, Bruce Harrow. I'm hoping that's 441 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,959 Speaker 4: not true. Germai Zahalai will be the King County executive 442 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 4: black man. And there's also an election in Detroit, I know, 443 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 4: in several other places. But what I want to point out, Andrew, 444 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 4: is we're talking about the people, the electeds, choosing their voters, 445 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 4: But if we're honest, the voters still aren't really choosing 446 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 4: their folks. Because in Seattle, they're celebrating the fact that, 447 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 4: you know, if the voter turnout could get up to 448 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 4: thirty thirty three percent in Detroit, they're talking about seventeen percent. 449 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 4: So it's like people are still not really choosing their candidates. 450 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 4: It is a select few. It is a talented tenth, 451 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 4: that is a talented seventeenth choosing who will represent the 452 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 4: best interests of these voters. I don't know what we 453 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 4: get what we do to get people to lean in 454 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 4: in a process that, especially when we're watching it, like 455 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 4: freaking implode this whole thing about like I voted, I 456 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 4: picked my person, and then you redraw the goddamn lines. 457 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, By the way, this is some of the 458 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: kinds of tactics that add to people deciding not to 459 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: participate in the process. Right, they make the choice to 460 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: stay out. But this is what I pull out as 461 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: a difference. The difference with voter turnout numbers and percentages 462 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: are that steal. The voters are making a you know, 463 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: they are getting to decide whether to participate or not. 464 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: We have otherwise, is a system deciding who gets to 465 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: show up, who gets to win, and who you get 466 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: to choose from by way of candidates because we have 467 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: rigged the rules to dictate to dictate that to you. 468 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 4: But I think that's why they don't show up. So 469 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 4: I don't see them as separate. I see them as 470 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 4: inherently connected. 471 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: I see them, I see them connected, I see them 472 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: as slightly different. Because I want to be able to 473 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: make the choice around my representation. I don't want you 474 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: telling me that that a black candidate is now off 475 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: the table because I've totally read on these lines to 476 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: make sure that they'll never ever to be able to 477 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: compete and win. That's that's the thing, the difference. 478 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 4: I think we have to keep talking about this. You know, 479 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 4: we will over time for a mini pod data shut 480 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 4: in today, But it's so good because what I think 481 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 4: we get to the heart of brother is, you know, 482 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 4: democracy is not like this foregone conclusion. It's something that 483 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 4: is being fought for minute by minute, second by second, 484 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 4: and it requires oversight, not just by it. 485 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 1: It requires our participation. Yes, but we don't get to 486 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: watch this thing and think that it's going to work 487 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: out the way we want it. 488 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 4: And casting a ballot isn't sufficient, Like you literally have 489 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 4: to oversee the people who you put in place to 490 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 4: oversee what is happening, because they may be overseeing it 491 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 4: in a way that is not represent your best Angela. 492 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: I've said this on the show before it I stand 493 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: by it, and that is is that democracy is a 494 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: contact sport and it is the reason why this is 495 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,959 Speaker 1: the least in the least popular form of government as 496 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: we look around the world, it is not easy to maintain. 497 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: It is much easier to maintain a single leader at 498 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: the top telling everybody what they can do and what 499 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: they cannot do, and people obliging themselves and obligating themselves 500 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: under that leadership structure. We are in a difficult process. 501 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: Democracies are hard, They must be fought for. It is 502 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: why the framer said, we hand you a republic if 503 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: you can keep it. If you can keep it, part 504 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 1: is where we come in. If we can keep it. 505 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: So that's the question of the day, and we'll only 506 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: be answered by how it is that we respond to 507 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: the threat that Texas is putting up and the threat 508 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: that all these other states are going to continue to 509 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: put up in the face of Donald Trump's power hungry party. 510 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 4: Right now, I want to tell you this because we 511 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 4: do really do have to go. But we normally don't 512 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 4: have cost to action in the in the mini pods. 513 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 4: But I just want to shout out our sister friend 514 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 4: Balicia Butterfield, because in the face of all that's happening, 515 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 4: because democracy is crumbling, because it's a contact sport, she 516 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 4: stood up something where she's using the hashtag relief is resistance. 517 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 4: As you know, Andrew, more than three hundred and ninety 518 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 4: thousand Black women are now unemployed because of what's happened 519 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 4: with the federal government, because of what's happened with DEI. 520 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 4: And that's just in the last three months. She stood 521 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 4: up an emergency relief fund and asking black women to 522 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 4: apply if they need support, and so far more than 523 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 4: eighteen thousand Black women have applied for emergency relief. And 524 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 4: I just want to encourage us to remember that the 525 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 4: power is still with the people. Even when our representatives 526 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 4: cheat us out of real representation, we can be there 527 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 4: to stand up for each other to provide real relief. 528 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 4: We did that with Stay to the People. Balisha's doing 529 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 4: this now Black Voters Matter is doing this work. We 530 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 4: have to continue to lean in for each other where 531 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 4: our elected officials are leaving gaps. 532 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: That's real. Thank you, Ellen, Welcome Home. 533 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 4: Native lamdpod is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership with 534 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 4: Resent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 535 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 4: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 536 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 4: favorite shows.