WEBVTT - The Agency of Others 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.800 I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:05.640 going to have to start making better content. I think 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:07.160 we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.200 When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:12.280 I think it's at were purpose driven platform. Like we're 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.600 trying to get to substance? How was that? Are you 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.400 happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:29.560 really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristen. 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:34.280 Welcome back ed Landia. End of summer is hot and 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.360 it's gonna be hot in here. So our next guest 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.199 this week needs no introduction. She is the woman of 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.559 the industry. She's showing the industry how to think beyond 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.760 the industry and how to rethink how we operate. Really 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:51.919 excited to hear from the one and only Syddey Gallop. 0:00:52.400 --> 0:01:06.000 We'll be right back and we're back in the studio 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:10.080 with Cindy Gallop. Cindy is the founder and CEO of 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:13.560 Make Love Not Porn. We are so excited to have you. Well, 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:18.480 I'm deeply flattered. So Cindy, you obviously have um a 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:20.959 business that you have built and Make Love Not Porn. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.280 But before we get into that you have such a 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.720 storied career and you've talked about down your Twitter, which 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:27.720 is one of my favorite things to follow on the Internet, 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:32.240 about what it took for you to crack into advertising. 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:37.960 Can you tell our listeners? Well? Um, I read English 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.880 University at Oxford and film out in love with theater 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:42.720 and decided that was all I wanted to work in. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.000 And so for several years I was a theater marketing 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.680 and publicity officer in the UK. But eventually I got 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:53.720 completely bored with basically working and earning chicken feed, which 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.880 is what happens in the theater. And at the time 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.840 I was the marketing officer at the Everyman Theater Liverpool 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:01.800 and part of my drop moting the theater was to 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.640 give talks about it. So I gave a talk to 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:07.760 a group of women and after one of them came 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:09.919 up to me and said, young lady, you could sell 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.600 a fridge to an Eskimo, and so I thought, okay, 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.000 that is the universe telling me something. It's time to 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:18.600 sell out the santiafroentt go into advertising, but advertising was 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.160 very difficult to get into. This was the UK back 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.920 in the eighties. Advertising believed or not was the hottest, 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:30.040 sexiest and most desirable career, and so I um, first 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.440 of all, I tried applying cold to a number of agencies, 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.600 and I said, you know, I've been working in marketing 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:37.320 publicity for a number of years. I can bring all 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:40.080 of this experience to the table. And I found myself 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.679 trapped in that double bind of they wouldn't hire me 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:45.560 because I didn't have any experience in advertising, but I 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.080 couldn't get any experience advertising as they hired me. So 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.480 I gave up on that and I decided that I 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.760 would just have to go back and do the entry 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:58.200 level graduate trainee application thing. You know. Several years late, 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.720 I basically took a job at the first agency that 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.600 offered me one, which was Ted Bates, and had a 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.520 very happy time there. Then searches Wart Bates and I 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:14.760 interviewed with two agencies, specifically bb H and j w 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:21.840 T and BBH um basically, we're interviewing me for an 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.640 account manager job on on this big retail account. And 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:28.880 it was all going frightfully well, and you know, everyone 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:30.600 wanted me to join and I was and at the 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.120 time bb it was the hottest agency in town. And 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.680 then I was told Nigel Bogel, whose account man in 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.119 BBH really likes to meet all the all the account managers, 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:42.760 all the acount people we high. So it's just a formality, 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:44.000 you know, you just need to come in and meet 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.320 Nigel Bogel. So I went in and met Nigel Bogel. 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.120 It was one of those interviews where I got off 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.040 on the wrong foot. The minute I crossed the threshold, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:53.800 it went very badly. They did lock off me a job. 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.880 I went ka fine, Um went to j WT instead. 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.280 From Januty, I went to g g T and then 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:02.160 two years and at dug T I got a call 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.840 from a headhunter saying they're looking for an account director 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:06.200 at BBH and I went, oh, no, no no, no, you 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.480 know they don't want me. And the under well, you 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.680 know there's a new head account management. Why don't you 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:15.360 just go and talk to them, you know? I went okay, fine. 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.600 So I went and met with a whole bunch of 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.000 people again and they all liked me. And then I 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.080 got the call saying I just need to come in 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.920 and meet Nigel over. Okay, it's all over, it's all over. Um. 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.360 So I went over, thinking right, well that's it, and 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:37.760 actually Um, Nigel walked into the room and he was 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.480 carrying the only piece of paper and he said to me, 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:43.280 look at what I found. And I thought, oh, it's 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.200 my resume for the last time round. And it wasn't. 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.160 It was one of the letters i'd written from the 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.960 theater world all those years ago, applying cold and the 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.719 moment I saw it, I realized by actually been one 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:56.800 of the agencies UND applied to, and they'd been the 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.440 only one where the CEO, Nigel had written back to 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.640 me and explained very nicely that they didn't hide anybody 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.440 without experience because of a too small at the time. 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:08.480 But it's been a really nice reply and the interview 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.480 went very differently, and at the end of it Nigel went, well, 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:13.400 you know, everybody here wants you to join us, and 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.000 I'm being blamed was the only person who stopped you 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.920 joining us the last time around. Will you you know? Um, 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:19.680 we're gonna offer your job and I hope you take it. 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:24.040 And so that was my saga of getting into BBH. 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.960 And in fact the entertaining thing was after I joined, 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.480 I had lunch with John Bartle and I said to him, 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:32.200 you know, I've been trying to get in here for 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.320 a very long time, and but you kept rejecting me. 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.360 You went, oh no, no, Cindy, that wasn't us rejecting you. 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.400 As I recall, you were too good for the job. 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.799 Is the Cindy Gallop that everyone knows and loves today 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:50.480 and also this powerhouse of voice in the industry that 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.520 same person. Or did you hit a place in your 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:58.000 career where your voice to yourself started becoming more known 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:03.599 and more comfortable? No, plow no, no. I mean everything 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:07.000 about life and career has happened by accident. Nothing has 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:11.840 been intentional, and there were no moments of revelation. I'm 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.600 afraid it's very disappointing this kind of thing a lot, 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.080 and that's an actually good thing because I actually think 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.240 that's real, that's the real, that's that's the reality, and 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.080 maybe that's maybe that's why it works as well. You're 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.000 coming here today. I was thinking about, um, just some 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.479 of my own my career, realizing that yes, I have 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.279 these moments, but at the end of the day, everything 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:39.360 has been kind of this nonlinear, right, which is serendipitous thing. 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:41.520 So at some point you you hit sort of the 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.240 end of your agency track and decided you were going 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:48.600 to transition into building. Nope, no, no, that that was 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:52.400 completely accidental as well as a thrusting, ambitious young account 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.640 director does I pinned Nigel build up against the wall 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:56.360 and I went, where am I going in this agency? 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.919 And Nigel is a very good management tactic of turning 0:06:59.920 --> 0:07:02.240 the question back on me, and so he said, you 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.039 tell us where you want to go and what you 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.080 want to do, Cindy, and will make it happen. And 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.880 he said, don't be bounded by the realms of the possible. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.840 If you want a job that does not yet exist, 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.320 tell us what it is. So I thought, okay, you know, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.360 can't say fairer than that, went off, thought about it, 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.120 came back and said, okay, may in mind at the 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:20.800 time we had one office in London. I said, my 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.480 dream job is running bb H North America. And I said, 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:26.200 and I'd be prepared to do that in San Francisco. 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:27.720 And the reason I said that was because we had 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:29.640 the Levi's business in Europe and they were headquartered in 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.120 sanranci is important for us. And I said, but to 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.080 be my true dream job, I'd be doing it in 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.920 New York. And so Nigel went, okay, he said actually 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.560 we have started talking about the US. UM, you know, 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:42.920 not sure how they'll go, but your request is locked. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.000 So I went out to BBH specific as the number two, 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.600 and then I got my dream job. I came out 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:54.440 here to start up bb H New York. So you know, 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:56.080 did that for a number of years or around the 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.840 agent the number of years. Um. Then in two thou 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.120 and five turned forty five. Had my very unpersonal midlife 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.360 crisis in the sense that I've always thought of forty 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.600 five as kind of a midlife point. Obviously, by the way, 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.040 the happy assumption one of us to be ninety fingers crossed. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.040 But I've always gone on your footy fifth birthday. That 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.160 is the moment when you should pause, take stock, reflecting, 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:21.680 review where have I been? Where am I going? So 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.160 on February one, two thousand five, idly did that, and 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.080 that was the moment in which I went, oh my god, 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:31.200 I've just worked sixteen years for the same advertising agency. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.400 Absolutely amazing agency. I honestly cannot say enough nice things 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.679 about BBH. I love them to death. But I went woe, 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.160 maybe it's time to do something different. And then the 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:45.360 problem was I hadn't the faintest idea. What Because I've 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.400 always said to people, I'm not going to work in 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.120 advertising forever. I'm not gonna work at BH forever. But 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.800 advertising is a very good industry to work in to 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.320 find your next thing because you come into contact with 0:08:55.400 --> 0:09:00.400 so many different sectors people, companies, businesses. I guess I'd 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.599 always thought that my next big thing would kind of 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:04.559 bubble up from the ether one day, and there I was, 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.480 an age of forty five, and it happn't. So lots 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.079 of thought and angst ing ensued, and eventure I went, 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.760 if I want to examine every possible option open to 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:15.920 me for what is effectively the second half of my life, 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:17.760 maybe the best thing to do is to put myself 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.120 on the market, very public thing. Go okay, guys, here 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.880 I am what you got, and see what comes. So 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:26.200 I took a massive leap into the unknown. I resigned 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.040 as chairman of EVA and the summer of two thousand 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.559 five without a job to go to. As I suspected 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.559 and surmised, a ton of approaches were made to me 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.000 n which I would never have thought of myself, you know. 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.320 Um And and so I went, Okay, I still don't 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:41.800 know what I want to do. I'm going to be 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.120 employment slut. I'm going to talk to everybody. I'm going 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.440 to take every meeting, I'm going to do every phone called, 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:51.640 no preconceived notions. And so I embarked on this fascinating exploratory, 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:53.760 which was as good for telling me what I didn't 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:55.079 want to do. That's what I did want to do. 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.880 Cana stabbed there. That is a huge advice. I tacked 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.360 a lot of friends about the were hemming and hiding 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.520 about the next move, whether it's the next job or 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.040 it's the next career move. And what you just said 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:11.560 was stop thinking so much, just do, just go in 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:17.080 do And that's like, yep, no, exactly exactly. And also, 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.120 I mean, you know a couple of important things I 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.360 think too are I mean, I was lucky I had 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.559 some BBH shares which you had to sell when you 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:27.480 left the company because as a private companies, so I 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:29.520 knew I had a bit of a financial cushion. That 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:33.240 meant that I could take the time to explore. Um. 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.200 I mean I recommend trying to accumulate that you know, 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:42.080 savings wise or side hustle wise, because to be frank um, 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.959 you cannot make your next career decision. When you're working, 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.720 you are just never going to You need to clear 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.120 your head. You need to take the time to work 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:52.640 at what you really want to do. And also you 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.280 need to say I'm available. And when you put yourself 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.760 out there, you're amazed at what comes to you that 0:10:57.760 --> 0:10:59.160 that would not have come to you if they had 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:01.760 not known that you were. You were out there openly talking. 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:07.439 But but I especially to be Frank evangelic size about 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.439 working for yourself, because that is the only way to 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.800 be People make the mistake of thinking that a job 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.240 is the safe option. It's not. In a job, you're 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:21.439 at the complete mercy of management changes, market downturns, industry dynamics. 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.600 You know, I would say, to people whose hands would 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.720 you rather place your future in, there's the large corporate 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.920 entity who at the day doesn't give a shit about you. 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.160 Was somebody who will always have your best interests at heart. 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:37.319 I EU, and so I recommend to people that they 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:41.320 consider starting own business. I especially recommended to women because 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.800 the existing industry is not working for us. We need 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.880 to redesign and reinvent our own um. And in fact, 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.360 the closing keynote I gave it a three Percent conference 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:54.679 two years ago was here are the ten easy microactions 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.960 you can take to start your own agency now. And 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.000 I made the point that I used the word age 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:04.360 agency in quotation marks because I don't mean start an 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.960 agency like any of the ones you see around you today. 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.400 I mean start something that gives you agency, that lets 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.199 you decide how you want to work, what you want 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.760 to do, what you want your output to be, and 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.800 then start that. The thing is that I think it's 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.440 not easy, but not to be mistaken that it's not doable. Okay, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.000 I'm a big fan of radical simplicity. First of all. 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.400 You know, what I say to everybody is just take 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.760 a long, hard look around you and identify what you 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.360 think is missing from our industry or from whatever industry 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.160 you want to start something up in. You know, identify 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.560 what you would love to be there that is not 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.320 what is not there that you could bring to the table, 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.240 what you think the industry can really benefit from, but 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.040 nobody else has spotted that. And then start that. Yes, 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.400 and there is so much opportunity when you do that, 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.760 especially through the female lends. And then you know, there 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:57.679 are a couple of good things about our understand I 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.640 mean First of all, you don't have to jump ship 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.040 and do it in imediately. You can absolutely begin doing 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.040 it in the form of side hustle. Secondly, you know, 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.880 depending on the nature of your business, the combination of 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.720 service industry, it's you and your brain working from home, 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.000 plus all your friends in your network and their brains 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:17.560 as and when you can call on them when you 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.720 have a contract. Plus a lot of these days free 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:25.240 technical tools that enable you to build and structure and 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.280 put out there anything you want I mean, storry and 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.800 business could not be easier, especially given the nature of 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.199 what we do. And and incidentally, this is another reason 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.480 why I say to all women and and actually people 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.840 of color, anybody who is other in our industry, you 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.520 have to go to the three Percent conference. Okay, this 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:45.640 year's in Chicago November eight to night. I'll be given 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.520 the closing kennote again. But the reason you have to 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.880 go there is because there are your clients. There are 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:55.920 your contacts, your network, I mean, your future employees, your 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:59.120 co founding partners. But there are the people who want 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:03.479 to give you as when you start your own agency company, 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.120 doing something that is not available in the industry currently. 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.880 Following all my years and our industry. I feel very 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:10.680 strongly the future of business is doing good and making 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.400 money simultaneously, and I believe it's very important in that 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:18.840 context to design new business models. And so I believe 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.560 the business model of the future is shared values plus 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:26.400 shared action equals shared profit, financial profits and social profit. UM. 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.560 In other words, when brands and businesses and companies come 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.080 together with their audiences and by the way, that can 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.720 be your consumers, your employees, your analysts, you know, whatever 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.760 audience it is, when you come together around values that 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:40.880 you will share, which, by the way, is the most 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.520 important requirement for good relationship in life as much as business. 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.320 You will never truly bond with somebody don't share the 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.720 same values. When you come together around shared values, when 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:53.080 you are then collaboratively and collectively enabled to coact on 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.560 those values, to walk the talk together, you can then 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.920 make things happen in the real world that will benefit consumers, 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.120 benefit society, and benefit the brand. It's business. And so 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.240 I started a company called if We Run the World, 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.600 which is coaction software designed to help brands implement that 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.600 business model. Whether that's actually software, I called UM if 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.080 We Run the World marketing enterprise software because that's that's 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.680 what it's intended to be. You know. Um A lot 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:25.360 of brands see um the future of advertising marketing as 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.320 co creation with their consumers, and I see it as 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:33.000 co action. And so it basically enables you to take 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.880 any goal break it down into micro actions. And micro 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.400 action is an incredibly small, simple, easy to do action, 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.280 which is so easy. Why would you do it? I 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.280 want to think for our listeners to like an action, 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.720 define an action in this case, so my philosophy and 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:48.760 by the way, you know, I live my own philosophers. 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.280 I designed my startups around them, and so my philosophy 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.800 is one of micro actions. So, as I said in 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.280 micro action is incredibly small, simple, easy to do action, 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:00.000 which is so tiny and easy to do, why wouldn't 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.160 do it? And the reason micro actions are important is 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.840 because I believe that change happens from the bottom up, 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.200 not the top down. Every single one of us, every 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.800 single day undertaking tiny micro actions to change what we 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.280 want to see change cumulatively add up at scale to 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.520 enormous impact. I mean, one micro action can start a 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.800 change reaction that can change the world. So so yeah, 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.040 but if we run the world enables you to break 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.840 any going into micro actions that can be shared out 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.720 amongst different communities, different audiences, within businesses, and within brands, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.040 so that you can all coact to achieve the goal together. 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.960 Can you imagine like a media plan. You say, this 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:39.840 is not a media plan. This is a set of 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:46.600 microactions like that, which is totally the way we've been 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.760 talking ab We haven't coined it as micro actions, which 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:56.000 is completely subvert The bullshit of goals that we've been 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.480 talking about need to be subverted and changed. Now, you're 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.400 absolutely right. And actually the interesting thing for me was 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:02.240 that when I was sharing IF Around the World in 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.800 concept form with a with a venture capitalists this is 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.640 years ago. Um, he said to me, Cindy, You've created 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.080 the advertising agents of the future. And I had not 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.280 thought about like that. And actually, um, I mean, first 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:17.440 of all, I was enormously flattered when twelve months into 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.199 IF We Round the World released in beta, Harvard Business 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.280 School contacted me and said, this model is so innovative 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:24.600 we want to write it up as a case study 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:28.280 and teach it. So I had the extraordinary surreal experience 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:29.800 of going to Harvard sitting in the back of a 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.600 lecture theater. Um, you know watching my top and they'll 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.679 start up being talked to a class of business students. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.160 And so it exists as as a Harvard Business School 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:39.639 case study, and so I hear from business students all 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.159 around the world about it. I very much want to 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.400 go back and reactivate it around the world when I can. 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.919 I need to find brand partners and investors. But the 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.440 world still needs what that startup is all about actually 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:56.760 seems like the sort of strategic media lens UM are 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:58.560 planning lens that needs to be put on up with 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:00.440 a block chain. For those people who have they're starting 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:02.640 trying to figure out, like how do we move through 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.280 the tech element you have sort of that strategic land 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.320 So so talk about make love not porn? How did 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.920 you how did that happen? Again, by complete accident, I 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.280 date younger men um. They tend to men in their twenties, 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.639 and about ten or eleven years ago, I began realizing 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:20.800 through dating younger men that I was encountering what happens 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.960 when today's total frame of access to pawn online meets 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.119 our society is equally total reluctance to talk openly and 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:32.280 honestly about sex. When those two dynamics converge, pawn becomes 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.159 sex education by default in not a good way. So 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.840 I decided something about this nine years ago, put up 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.680 a very small, clunky, no money website at Make Love 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:44.119 Not Porn dot com UM that was just myth versus reality, 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.680 porn world versus real world. Launched that ted um back 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.080 in two thousand nine, became the only TED speaker to 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:51.960 say the words come on my face on the TED 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:57.280 stage six times, I think probably still by the way, undoubtedly, 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.199 I don't think you've had any followers that Doubtedly that 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:04.960 the talk went viral and and it basically triggered this 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.160 huge global response to my tiny, clunky side that I've 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.000 never anticipated. And I reast I've uncovered a huge global 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.920 social issue, and so I felt responsibility to do something 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.879 about that. And I saw the opportunity to do exactly 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:19.159 what I believe in, which is do good and make 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.200 money simultaneously. So I saw the opportunity for a big 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.199 business solution to this huge, untapped global social need. And 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.960 I used the word big advisedly because even then, back 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.800 in two thousand and a concept stage, I knew that 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.640 if I wanted to counter the global impact of porners 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:36.719 default sex it. I was going to have to come 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:38.840 up with something that had the potential one day to 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.680 be just as mass, just as mainstream, and just as 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.399 all pervasive in our society as pawn current is. So 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.560 I was thinking big, right, then get go, And so 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.960 that led me to take make Love Not Pawn forwards 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.320 as make Love Not Porn dot tv, which is the 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.800 world's first and only social sex video sharing platform that 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.560 celebrates real world sex as a counterpoint to pawn in 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.320 order to socialize sex, to make it easier to talk 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.679 about for everyone in the world, in order to promote 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.320 good sexual values and good sexual behavior. We call ourselves 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.560 the social sex Revolution. The Reverend part is not the sex, 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:17.320 it's the social it's dove tails. Like you said, your 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:22.200 principles and your beliefs have dovetailed into and you're speaking. 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.520 It's like all of these things actually line up. It's 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:32.080 our agency into being one of the loudest voices in 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:36.679 the industry for industry change around equality. Let's call it 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:41.920 at the highest level right for everyone. Um, but uh, 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.639 you know sexual harassment. You have been the one of 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.879 the loudest voices. Was it make Love not Porn? Was 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.520 that you know, your belief system was everything that made 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.080 you this kind of the one who had to or 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.359 one of the you know, big people in the industry 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.159