1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 4 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 5 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: I think it's at were purpose driven platform. Like we're 6 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: trying to get to substance? How was that? Are you 7 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 8 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristen. 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: Welcome back ed Landia. End of summer is hot and 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: it's gonna be hot in here. So our next guest 11 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: this week needs no introduction. She is the woman of 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: the industry. She's showing the industry how to think beyond 13 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: the industry and how to rethink how we operate. Really 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: excited to hear from the one and only Syddey Gallop. 15 00:00:52,400 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: We'll be right back and we're back in the studio 16 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: with Cindy Gallop. Cindy is the founder and CEO of 17 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: Make Love Not Porn. We are so excited to have you. Well, 18 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: I'm deeply flattered. So Cindy, you obviously have um a 19 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: business that you have built and Make Love Not Porn. 20 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: But before we get into that you have such a 21 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: storied career and you've talked about down your Twitter, which 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: is one of my favorite things to follow on the Internet, 23 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: about what it took for you to crack into advertising. 24 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: Can you tell our listeners? Well? Um, I read English 25 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: University at Oxford and film out in love with theater 26 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: and decided that was all I wanted to work in. 27 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: And so for several years I was a theater marketing 28 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: and publicity officer in the UK. But eventually I got 29 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: completely bored with basically working and earning chicken feed, which 30 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: is what happens in the theater. And at the time 31 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: I was the marketing officer at the Everyman Theater Liverpool 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: and part of my drop moting the theater was to 33 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: give talks about it. So I gave a talk to 34 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: a group of women and after one of them came 35 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: up to me and said, young lady, you could sell 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: a fridge to an Eskimo, and so I thought, okay, 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: that is the universe telling me something. It's time to 38 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: sell out the santiafroentt go into advertising, but advertising was 39 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: very difficult to get into. This was the UK back 40 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: in the eighties. Advertising believed or not was the hottest, 41 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: sexiest and most desirable career, and so I um, first 42 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: of all, I tried applying cold to a number of agencies, 43 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I've been working in marketing 44 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: publicity for a number of years. I can bring all 45 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: of this experience to the table. And I found myself 46 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: trapped in that double bind of they wouldn't hire me 47 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: because I didn't have any experience in advertising, but I 48 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: couldn't get any experience advertising as they hired me. So 49 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: I gave up on that and I decided that I 50 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: would just have to go back and do the entry 51 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: level graduate trainee application thing. You know. Several years late, 52 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: I basically took a job at the first agency that 53 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: offered me one, which was Ted Bates, and had a 54 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: very happy time there. Then searches Wart Bates and I 55 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: interviewed with two agencies, specifically bb H and j w 56 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: T and BBH um basically, we're interviewing me for an 57 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: account manager job on on this big retail account. And 58 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: it was all going frightfully well, and you know, everyone 59 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: wanted me to join and I was and at the 60 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: time bb it was the hottest agency in town. And 61 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: then I was told Nigel Bogel, whose account man in 62 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,119 Speaker 1: BBH really likes to meet all the all the account managers, 63 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: all the acount people we high. So it's just a formality, 64 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, you just need to come in and meet 65 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: Nigel Bogel. So I went in and met Nigel Bogel. 66 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: It was one of those interviews where I got off 67 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: on the wrong foot. The minute I crossed the threshold, 68 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: it went very badly. They did lock off me a job. 69 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: I went ka fine, Um went to j WT instead. 70 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: From Januty, I went to g g T and then 71 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: two years and at dug T I got a call 72 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: from a headhunter saying they're looking for an account director 73 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: at BBH and I went, oh, no, no no, no, you 74 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: know they don't want me. And the under well, you 75 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: know there's a new head account management. Why don't you 76 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: just go and talk to them, you know? I went okay, fine. 77 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: So I went and met with a whole bunch of 78 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: people again and they all liked me. And then I 79 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: got the call saying I just need to come in 80 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: and meet Nigel over. Okay, it's all over, it's all over. Um. 81 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: So I went over, thinking right, well that's it, and 82 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: actually Um, Nigel walked into the room and he was 83 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: carrying the only piece of paper and he said to me, 84 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: look at what I found. And I thought, oh, it's 85 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: my resume for the last time round. And it wasn't. 86 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: It was one of the letters i'd written from the 87 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: theater world all those years ago, applying cold and the 88 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: moment I saw it, I realized by actually been one 89 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: of the agencies UND applied to, and they'd been the 90 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: only one where the CEO, Nigel had written back to 91 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: me and explained very nicely that they didn't hide anybody 92 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: without experience because of a too small at the time. 93 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: But it's been a really nice reply and the interview 94 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: went very differently, and at the end of it Nigel went, well, 95 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: you know, everybody here wants you to join us, and 96 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: I'm being blamed was the only person who stopped you 97 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: joining us the last time around. Will you you know? Um, 98 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna offer your job and I hope you take it. 99 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: And so that was my saga of getting into BBH. 100 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: And in fact the entertaining thing was after I joined, 101 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: I had lunch with John Bartle and I said to him, 102 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, I've been trying to get in here for 103 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: a very long time, and but you kept rejecting me. 104 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: You went, oh no, no, Cindy, that wasn't us rejecting you. 105 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: As I recall, you were too good for the job. 106 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 1: Is the Cindy Gallop that everyone knows and loves today 107 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: and also this powerhouse of voice in the industry that 108 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: same person. Or did you hit a place in your 109 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: career where your voice to yourself started becoming more known 110 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: and more comfortable? No, plow no, no. I mean everything 111 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: about life and career has happened by accident. Nothing has 112 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: been intentional, and there were no moments of revelation. I'm 113 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: afraid it's very disappointing this kind of thing a lot, 114 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: and that's an actually good thing because I actually think 115 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: that's real, that's the real, that's that's the reality, and 116 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: maybe that's maybe that's why it works as well. You're 117 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: coming here today. I was thinking about, um, just some 118 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: of my own my career, realizing that yes, I have 119 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: these moments, but at the end of the day, everything 120 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: has been kind of this nonlinear, right, which is serendipitous thing. 121 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: So at some point you you hit sort of the 122 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: end of your agency track and decided you were going 123 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: to transition into building. Nope, no, no, that that was 124 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: completely accidental as well as a thrusting, ambitious young account 125 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: director does I pinned Nigel build up against the wall 126 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: and I went, where am I going in this agency? 127 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: And Nigel is a very good management tactic of turning 128 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: the question back on me, and so he said, you 129 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: tell us where you want to go and what you 130 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: want to do, Cindy, and will make it happen. And 131 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: he said, don't be bounded by the realms of the possible. 132 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: If you want a job that does not yet exist, 133 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: tell us what it is. So I thought, okay, you know, 134 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: can't say fairer than that, went off, thought about it, 135 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: came back and said, okay, may in mind at the 136 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: time we had one office in London. I said, my 137 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: dream job is running bb H North America. And I said, 138 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: and I'd be prepared to do that in San Francisco. 139 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: And the reason I said that was because we had 140 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: the Levi's business in Europe and they were headquartered in 141 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: sanranci is important for us. And I said, but to 142 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: be my true dream job, I'd be doing it in 143 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: New York. And so Nigel went, okay, he said actually 144 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: we have started talking about the US. UM, you know, 145 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: not sure how they'll go, but your request is locked. 146 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: So I went out to BBH specific as the number two, 147 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: and then I got my dream job. I came out 148 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: here to start up bb H New York. So you know, 149 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: did that for a number of years or around the 150 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: agent the number of years. Um. Then in two thou 151 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: and five turned forty five. Had my very unpersonal midlife 152 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: crisis in the sense that I've always thought of forty 153 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: five as kind of a midlife point. Obviously, by the way, 154 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: the happy assumption one of us to be ninety fingers crossed. 155 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: But I've always gone on your footy fifth birthday. That 156 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: is the moment when you should pause, take stock, reflecting, 157 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: review where have I been? Where am I going? So 158 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: on February one, two thousand five, idly did that, and 159 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: that was the moment in which I went, oh my god, 160 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: I've just worked sixteen years for the same advertising agency. 161 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: Absolutely amazing agency. I honestly cannot say enough nice things 162 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: about BBH. I love them to death. But I went woe, 163 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: maybe it's time to do something different. And then the 164 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: problem was I hadn't the faintest idea. What Because I've 165 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: always said to people, I'm not going to work in 166 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: advertising forever. I'm not gonna work at BH forever. But 167 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: advertising is a very good industry to work in to 168 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: find your next thing because you come into contact with 169 00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: so many different sectors people, companies, businesses. I guess I'd 170 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,599 Speaker 1: always thought that my next big thing would kind of 171 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: bubble up from the ether one day, and there I was, 172 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: an age of forty five, and it happn't. So lots 173 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: of thought and angst ing ensued, and eventure I went, 174 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: if I want to examine every possible option open to 175 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: me for what is effectively the second half of my life, 176 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: maybe the best thing to do is to put myself 177 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: on the market, very public thing. Go okay, guys, here 178 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: I am what you got, and see what comes. So 179 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: I took a massive leap into the unknown. I resigned 180 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: as chairman of EVA and the summer of two thousand 181 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: five without a job to go to. As I suspected 182 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 1: and surmised, a ton of approaches were made to me 183 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: n which I would never have thought of myself, you know. 184 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: Um And and so I went, Okay, I still don't 185 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: know what I want to do. I'm going to be 186 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: employment slut. I'm going to talk to everybody. I'm going 187 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: to take every meeting, I'm going to do every phone called, 188 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: no preconceived notions. And so I embarked on this fascinating exploratory, 189 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: which was as good for telling me what I didn't 190 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: want to do. That's what I did want to do. 191 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: Cana stabbed there. That is a huge advice. I tacked 192 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: a lot of friends about the were hemming and hiding 193 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: about the next move, whether it's the next job or 194 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: it's the next career move. And what you just said 195 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: was stop thinking so much, just do, just go in 196 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: do And that's like, yep, no, exactly exactly. And also, 197 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know a couple of important things I 198 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: think too are I mean, I was lucky I had 199 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: some BBH shares which you had to sell when you 200 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: left the company because as a private companies, so I 201 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: knew I had a bit of a financial cushion. That 202 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: meant that I could take the time to explore. Um. 203 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: I mean I recommend trying to accumulate that you know, 204 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: savings wise or side hustle wise, because to be frank um, 205 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: you cannot make your next career decision. When you're working, 206 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: you are just never going to You need to clear 207 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: your head. You need to take the time to work 208 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: at what you really want to do. And also you 209 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: need to say I'm available. And when you put yourself 210 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: out there, you're amazed at what comes to you that 211 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: that would not have come to you if they had 212 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: not known that you were. You were out there openly talking. 213 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: But but I especially to be Frank evangelic size about 214 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: working for yourself, because that is the only way to 215 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: be People make the mistake of thinking that a job 216 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: is the safe option. It's not. In a job, you're 217 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: at the complete mercy of management changes, market downturns, industry dynamics. 218 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: You know, I would say, to people whose hands would 219 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: you rather place your future in, there's the large corporate 220 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: entity who at the day doesn't give a shit about you. 221 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: Was somebody who will always have your best interests at heart. 222 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: I EU, and so I recommend to people that they 223 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: consider starting own business. I especially recommended to women because 224 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: the existing industry is not working for us. We need 225 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: to redesign and reinvent our own um. And in fact, 226 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: the closing keynote I gave it a three Percent conference 227 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: two years ago was here are the ten easy microactions 228 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: you can take to start your own agency now. And 229 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: I made the point that I used the word age 230 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: agency in quotation marks because I don't mean start an 231 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: agency like any of the ones you see around you today. 232 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: I mean start something that gives you agency, that lets 233 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: you decide how you want to work, what you want 234 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: to do, what you want your output to be, and 235 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: then start that. The thing is that I think it's 236 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: not easy, but not to be mistaken that it's not doable. Okay, 237 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of radical simplicity. First of all. 238 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: You know, what I say to everybody is just take 239 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: a long, hard look around you and identify what you 240 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: think is missing from our industry or from whatever industry 241 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: you want to start something up in. You know, identify 242 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: what you would love to be there that is not 243 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: what is not there that you could bring to the table, 244 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: what you think the industry can really benefit from, but 245 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: nobody else has spotted that. And then start that. Yes, 246 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: and there is so much opportunity when you do that, 247 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: especially through the female lends. And then you know, there 248 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: are a couple of good things about our understand I 249 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: mean First of all, you don't have to jump ship 250 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: and do it in imediately. You can absolutely begin doing 251 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: it in the form of side hustle. Secondly, you know, 252 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: depending on the nature of your business, the combination of 253 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: service industry, it's you and your brain working from home, 254 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: plus all your friends in your network and their brains 255 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: as and when you can call on them when you 256 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: have a contract. Plus a lot of these days free 257 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: technical tools that enable you to build and structure and 258 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: put out there anything you want I mean, storry and 259 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: business could not be easier, especially given the nature of 260 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 1: what we do. And and incidentally, this is another reason 261 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: why I say to all women and and actually people 262 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: of color, anybody who is other in our industry, you 263 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: have to go to the three Percent conference. Okay, this 264 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: year's in Chicago November eight to night. I'll be given 265 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: the closing kennote again. But the reason you have to 266 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: go there is because there are your clients. There are 267 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: your contacts, your network, I mean, your future employees, your 268 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: co founding partners. But there are the people who want 269 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,479 Speaker 1: to give you as when you start your own agency company, 270 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: doing something that is not available in the industry currently. 271 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: Following all my years and our industry. I feel very 272 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: strongly the future of business is doing good and making 273 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: money simultaneously, and I believe it's very important in that 274 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: context to design new business models. And so I believe 275 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: the business model of the future is shared values plus 276 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: shared action equals shared profit, financial profits and social profit. UM. 277 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: In other words, when brands and businesses and companies come 278 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: together with their audiences and by the way, that can 279 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: be your consumers, your employees, your analysts, you know, whatever 280 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: audience it is, when you come together around values that 281 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: you will share, which, by the way, is the most 282 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: important requirement for good relationship in life as much as business. 283 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: You will never truly bond with somebody don't share the 284 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: same values. When you come together around shared values, when 285 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: you are then collaboratively and collectively enabled to coact on 286 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: those values, to walk the talk together, you can then 287 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: make things happen in the real world that will benefit consumers, 288 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: benefit society, and benefit the brand. It's business. And so 289 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: I started a company called if We Run the World, 290 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: which is coaction software designed to help brands implement that 291 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: business model. Whether that's actually software, I called UM if 292 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: We Run the World marketing enterprise software because that's that's 293 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: what it's intended to be. You know. Um A lot 294 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: of brands see um the future of advertising marketing as 295 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: co creation with their consumers, and I see it as 296 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: co action. And so it basically enables you to take 297 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: any goal break it down into micro actions. And micro 298 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: action is an incredibly small, simple, easy to do action, 299 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: which is so easy. Why would you do it? I 300 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: want to think for our listeners to like an action, 301 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: define an action in this case, so my philosophy and 302 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: by the way, you know, I live my own philosophers. 303 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: I designed my startups around them, and so my philosophy 304 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: is one of micro actions. So, as I said in 305 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: micro action is incredibly small, simple, easy to do action, 306 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: which is so tiny and easy to do, why wouldn't 307 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: do it? And the reason micro actions are important is 308 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: because I believe that change happens from the bottom up, 309 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: not the top down. Every single one of us, every 310 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: single day undertaking tiny micro actions to change what we 311 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: want to see change cumulatively add up at scale to 312 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: enormous impact. I mean, one micro action can start a 313 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: change reaction that can change the world. So so yeah, 314 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: but if we run the world enables you to break 315 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: any going into micro actions that can be shared out 316 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: amongst different communities, different audiences, within businesses, and within brands, 317 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: so that you can all coact to achieve the goal together. 318 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: Can you imagine like a media plan. You say, this 319 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: is not a media plan. This is a set of 320 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: microactions like that, which is totally the way we've been 321 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: talking ab We haven't coined it as micro actions, which 322 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: is completely subvert The bullshit of goals that we've been 323 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: talking about need to be subverted and changed. Now, you're 324 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: absolutely right. And actually the interesting thing for me was 325 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: that when I was sharing IF Around the World in 326 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: concept form with a with a venture capitalists this is 327 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: years ago. Um, he said to me, Cindy, You've created 328 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: the advertising agents of the future. And I had not 329 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: thought about like that. And actually, um, I mean, first 330 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: of all, I was enormously flattered when twelve months into 331 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: IF We Round the World released in beta, Harvard Business 332 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: School contacted me and said, this model is so innovative 333 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: we want to write it up as a case study 334 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: and teach it. So I had the extraordinary surreal experience 335 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: of going to Harvard sitting in the back of a 336 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: lecture theater. Um, you know watching my top and they'll 337 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: start up being talked to a class of business students. 338 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: And so it exists as as a Harvard Business School 339 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: case study, and so I hear from business students all 340 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: around the world about it. I very much want to 341 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: go back and reactivate it around the world when I can. 342 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: I need to find brand partners and investors. But the 343 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: world still needs what that startup is all about actually 344 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: seems like the sort of strategic media lens UM are 345 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: planning lens that needs to be put on up with 346 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: a block chain. For those people who have they're starting 347 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: trying to figure out, like how do we move through 348 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: the tech element you have sort of that strategic land 349 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: So so talk about make love not porn? How did 350 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: you how did that happen? Again, by complete accident, I 351 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: date younger men um. They tend to men in their twenties, 352 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: and about ten or eleven years ago, I began realizing 353 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: through dating younger men that I was encountering what happens 354 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: when today's total frame of access to pawn online meets 355 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: our society is equally total reluctance to talk openly and 356 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: honestly about sex. When those two dynamics converge, pawn becomes 357 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: sex education by default in not a good way. So 358 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: I decided something about this nine years ago, put up 359 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: a very small, clunky, no money website at Make Love 360 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: Not Porn dot com UM that was just myth versus reality, 361 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: porn world versus real world. Launched that ted um back 362 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, became the only TED speaker to 363 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: say the words come on my face on the TED 364 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: stage six times, I think probably still by the way, undoubtedly, 365 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: I don't think you've had any followers that Doubtedly that 366 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: the talk went viral and and it basically triggered this 367 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: huge global response to my tiny, clunky side that I've 368 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: never anticipated. And I reast I've uncovered a huge global 369 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: social issue, and so I felt responsibility to do something 370 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: about that. And I saw the opportunity to do exactly 371 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: what I believe in, which is do good and make 372 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: money simultaneously. So I saw the opportunity for a big 373 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: business solution to this huge, untapped global social need. And 374 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: I used the word big advisedly because even then, back 375 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: in two thousand and a concept stage, I knew that 376 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: if I wanted to counter the global impact of porners 377 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,719 Speaker 1: default sex it. I was going to have to come 378 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: up with something that had the potential one day to 379 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: be just as mass, just as mainstream, and just as 380 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: all pervasive in our society as pawn current is. So 381 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: I was thinking big, right, then get go, And so 382 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: that led me to take make Love Not Pawn forwards 383 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: as make Love Not Porn dot tv, which is the 384 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: world's first and only social sex video sharing platform that 385 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: celebrates real world sex as a counterpoint to pawn in 386 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: order to socialize sex, to make it easier to talk 387 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: about for everyone in the world, in order to promote 388 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: good sexual values and good sexual behavior. We call ourselves 389 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: the social sex Revolution. The Reverend part is not the sex, 390 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: it's the social it's dove tails. Like you said, your 391 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: principles and your beliefs have dovetailed into and you're speaking. 392 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: It's like all of these things actually line up. It's 393 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: our agency into being one of the loudest voices in 394 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: the industry for industry change around equality. Let's call it 395 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: at the highest level right for everyone. Um, but uh, 396 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: you know sexual harassment. You have been the one of 397 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: the loudest voices. Was it make Love not Porn? Was 398 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: that you know, your belief system was everything that made 399 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: you this kind of the one who had to or 400 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: one of the you know, big people in the industry 401 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: who had a step up and call it out. No 402 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: again it you know, um nothing so intentional. Speaking up 403 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: about me too was kind of an accident as well. 404 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: I mean it's not in the sense that I had 405 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: deliberately been speaking up about sexual harassment in business for years, 406 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: way before the met movement, essentially because nobody else would, 407 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: you know, and you know I would. I would make it, 408 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: make a point of including it in every single business 409 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: talk I gave, no matter to whom, no matter how corporate, 410 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: the environment, and I would say to the audience, you know, 411 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: this is a huge sexual harassment is a huge business issue. 412 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: I would say. Every single woman in this room knows 413 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. None of the men do. At 414 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 1: the last minute, I rewrote my three Percent conference closing 415 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: keynote of last year, and the topic I meant to 416 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: talk about it was called where the money is And 417 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: having spent the previous year telling women and people are 418 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: colored to start their own agencies, my talk was meant 419 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: to be about the areas you can start agencies in 420 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: that will really make you money. And I pushed that 421 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: into the back and I made the front half of 422 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: the talk all about um what I realized with this avalanche, 423 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: and and I said to the audience, I've changed my 424 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: own thinking because up to this point I thought diversity 425 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: was the single biggest business issue facing industry. I realized 426 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: it's not. Sexual harassment is because sexual assment is keeping 427 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: out of leadership the female leaders who would actually welcome 428 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: in gender quality, diversity, and inclusion. And as long as 429 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: sexual harassment keeps women out of power, we will never 430 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: be gender equal, diverse, and inclusive. And so we absolutely 431 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: have to solve the issue above all others before we 432 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: solve anything else. What's your perspective on what needs to happen, 433 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: whether micro actions or kind of bigger organizational changes to 434 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: change this behavior, but also to change it really does 435 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: come down to an organ structure as well, Right, it 436 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: comes down to hard organ structures. What does that look 437 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: like in your mind? No? Absolutely, And so so this 438 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: is why I take issue with Cheryl Sandberg, because Cheryl 439 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: Sandberg wants us to lean in within the existing system, 440 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: and I want us redesign the system. And I'm very 441 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: frank about this on the stage at the se comference 442 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: every year. I've given up trying to make organizational change happened. 443 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: Now industry. My core now to women, to people of color, 444 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: to disabled people, to older people, to LGBTQ people, is 445 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: start your an agency. Um. The white male ecosystem is 446 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: not working for us. We have to start our own ecosystem. 447 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: And the opportunities are enormous when we do. Because you know, 448 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: our our entire industry is fucked. That close loop of 449 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: white guys talking to white guys but other white guys 450 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: is not taking it anywhere. And the downfall of the 451 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: holding companies and the down in tradectory of their share 452 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: price just demonstrates that the opportunity is enormous for our 453 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: new models. I've been saying for years that I want 454 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: to see the female foundered holding company of the future 455 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: because they were very different. Oh. Yes, I've just been 456 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: talking to an The woman in industry who is determined 457 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: to do this has a very interesting model. I've told her, 458 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: I think the idea is brilliant, um And and I 459 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: will give her all the help I can to make 460 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: that happen. UM and her and she was second guessing herself. 461 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: I mean she was giving me ideas that nobody else 462 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: is having, and she was second guessing herself because she's 463 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: been so beaten down by all the men telling her 464 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: she's crazy over the years that you know, this is 465 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: this is a worrying thing. And so I'm trying to 466 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: encourage all the women, people of color, people who are 467 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: considered other an industry, Um, start your own industry, because 468 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: emily possible, and it'll make your ship ton of money. 469 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: Do you believe in like cultural training? So a lot 470 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: of big companies will go into like sexual harassment training, 471 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: UM equality training, like are you um you know um 472 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: uh you know silent biases, things like that? Do you 473 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: believe in training? Or how do you think these types 474 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: of things that you're talking about really get a foothold 475 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: and matriculate through an organization that already exists. So I 476 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: am dying for organizations to hire me as a consultant 477 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: in this context because all that training does absolutely nothing, 478 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,959 Speaker 1: okay for for a couple of reasons. And and by 479 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: the way, what I'm about to say is backed up 480 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: by loads of research. First of all, um sad fact 481 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: of life. The more a company talks about diversity, talks 482 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: about inclusivity talks about what it's doing around gender quality. 483 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: The more you alienate the societal norm white men, they 484 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: get actively angry and alienated and do not wish to 485 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: help with any of that. So so it doesn't help 486 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: you in trying to change the culture. Secondly, fundamental human nature. Um, 487 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: if we feel we are doing something virtuous in one area, 488 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: we feel it gives us an excuse to engage in 489 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: a vice in the other. So the very mundane everyday 490 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: example is you know, um, I'm having a diet coat 491 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: so I can eat the bagg of chips and the 492 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: danger again with the company going blah blah, blood diversity, 493 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: diverse diversity is people go all right, So we've got 494 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: diversity covered off over there, I can just carry on 495 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: recruiting the same bast way I always have. So I 496 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: have plenty of ideas and I'm dying to implement with 497 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: the right brave company, our creative philosophy B H was 498 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: I don't sell, I make people want to buy. I'm 499 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: not selling diversity and making people want to buy it. Um. 500 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: I want us to basically bring to bear all of 501 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: what we're good at human insights, psychological understanding, extremely ingenious 502 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: strategy and highly creative execution to create programs that will 503 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: absolutely drive cultural change without the people in the culture 504 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: even realizing they're changing. Is there work that you can 505 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: point to in the marketplace right now that signals when 506 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: all of these things are working in the way they 507 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: are to be, that you can point to and say, 508 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: this would be an example when you have other at 509 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: the table, this is a manifestation of what can happen. Well, 510 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you know what I think is 511 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: the best possible example in response to that, which is 512 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: Hamilton's mhm. Because basically, you know, when you have at 513 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: the top of an industry a closed loop of white 514 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: guys talking to white guys, but other white guys, the 515 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: creative output you get is Batman versus Superman, which tanked 516 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: the box office. When you invite women and people of 517 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 1: color into the room where it happens advisedly, then what 518 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: you get is Hamilton's, which is not only exploded every 519 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: creative convention of the Broadway musical created a completely new 520 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: theatrical phenomenon, but is not coincidentally making literally billions of dollars. 521 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: But the really important thing about Hamilton's is that it 522 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: is diverse through and through. You know the team who 523 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: created it, the writer, the composer that you know, everybody 524 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: you know. It's not just what you see on stage. 525 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: Every single thing about it is other, which is why 526 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: it is unlike anything else theatrically, musically that's ever been. 527 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: The world needs more others. Yeah, that's right, Cindy. Before 528 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: we let you go, we have a game we like 529 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: to play. Killed by d I Y, Cindy Gallop, What 530 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: would you kill? But well, I mean I would kill 531 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: the patriarchy. I would buy anything created through the lens 532 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: of someone who was other. And you know, if I 533 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: weren't already working in my own billiondill adventure, I would 534 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: undoubtedly start the female founder holding company's future it Cyndey Gallop. 535 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: If people want to get in touch with you, to 536 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: hire you, to talk advice from you, where can they 537 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: reach you? Um, Cindy at if we run the world 538 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: dot Com? Um, you can follow me on Twitter at 539 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: Cyndy Gallop and you can find me on LinkedIn Cindy 540 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: Gallop again and on Facebook. Cindy Gallop. Can you change 541 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: when you go back to if we were in the 542 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: world dot com? Can you change it to when we 543 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: run the world. We will, we will, thank you, Thank 544 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: you so much. It's a pleasure. Big thanks to Cindy Gallop. 545 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: The way she kind of simply put things was really refreshing. 546 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: And I think that it's not just for the individual, right, 547 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: It's not just for female or quote unquote the others. 548 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: It's for brands. It's for um startups who are thinking 549 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: about how they're getting into a space and who they 550 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: want to be and how they're going to sell and 551 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: how they're going to open up a market in a 552 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: position for themselves. I think it always goes back to 553 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: those values and running those values through every single thing 554 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: that you are, that you do, that you sell, that 555 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,479 Speaker 1: you say, that you hire. When she said it, I 556 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: think kind of impeccably. So make sure to follow Syndy Gallop. 557 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: She has one of our favorite Twitter handles in the industry. 558 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: Big thank you to our producer, Dana Matt Turk, Andy Bowers, 559 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg, all of our friends and family at Panoply. 560 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: We'll be back in two weeks. Full disclosure, our opinions, 561 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: our own