1 00:00:16,311 --> 00:00:23,191 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey Leon here, Before we get to this episode, 2 00:00:23,431 --> 00:00:25,191 Speaker 1: I want to let you know that you can binge 3 00:00:25,231 --> 00:00:28,591 Speaker 1: the entire season of Fiasco Bush v. Gore right now, 4 00:00:28,791 --> 00:00:33,071 Speaker 1: add free by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Sign up 5 00:00:33,111 --> 00:00:36,271 Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on the Fiasco Apple podcast show page, 6 00:00:36,871 --> 00:00:44,351 Speaker 1: or visit Pushkin dot fm slash Plus. Now onto the episode. 7 00:00:44,830 --> 00:00:46,911 Speaker 1: Previously on Fiasco. 8 00:00:47,510 --> 00:00:50,190 Speaker 2: The closest election in a generation, I. 9 00:00:50,190 --> 00:00:52,590 Speaker 3: Called it at seven fifty two pm. It was all 10 00:00:52,631 --> 00:00:53,831 Speaker 3: downhill after that moment. 11 00:00:53,951 --> 00:00:56,711 Speaker 4: Some strange, unusual things happening in Florida. 12 00:00:56,831 --> 00:00:59,191 Speaker 2: Florida comes out of the Gore column. 13 00:00:59,231 --> 00:01:02,231 Speaker 4: Florida goes Bush, the presidency is Bush. That would be 14 00:01:02,271 --> 00:01:04,590 Speaker 4: something if the network's managed to blow it twice in 15 00:01:04,631 --> 00:01:05,071 Speaker 4: one night. 16 00:01:05,191 --> 00:01:06,991 Speaker 5: In some ways, you can win or lose an election 17 00:01:07,311 --> 00:01:08,511 Speaker 5: based on what the TVs say. 18 00:01:08,591 --> 00:01:10,071 Speaker 4: Well, someone find out for me whether it's a a 19 00:01:10,111 --> 00:01:11,871 Speaker 4: tread of state as a Democrat or a Republican. 20 00:01:12,031 --> 00:01:14,551 Speaker 6: Who would ever thought you'd be on a plane heading 21 00:01:14,591 --> 00:01:17,991 Speaker 6: to Florida to start a recount that could determine who 22 00:01:18,471 --> 00:01:19,271 Speaker 6: the president is. 23 00:01:23,511 --> 00:01:27,631 Speaker 1: The two thousand election wasn't really Jackie Winchester's problem four 24 00:01:27,711 --> 00:01:30,191 Speaker 1: years earlier. It would have been back then she was 25 00:01:30,191 --> 00:01:33,111 Speaker 1: the Supervisor of Elections for Palm Beach County, Florida, a 26 00:01:33,191 --> 00:01:35,071 Speaker 1: job that put her in charge of making sure that 27 00:01:35,111 --> 00:01:37,511 Speaker 1: election day always ran as smoothly as possible. 28 00:01:37,911 --> 00:01:40,991 Speaker 7: You have only one day to make it right, and 29 00:01:41,031 --> 00:01:44,791 Speaker 7: you're dependent on thousands of volunteers who have maybe three 30 00:01:44,871 --> 00:01:48,671 Speaker 7: days of training every few years, and you cannot control 31 00:01:48,711 --> 00:01:51,271 Speaker 7: what's going on out there and the precincts, and things 32 00:01:51,311 --> 00:01:52,111 Speaker 7: can go wrong. 33 00:01:52,391 --> 00:01:55,391 Speaker 1: After holding the post for twenty three years, Winchester had 34 00:01:55,391 --> 00:01:58,551 Speaker 1: retired in nineteen ninety six. In two thousand, she was 35 00:01:58,551 --> 00:02:01,711 Speaker 1: a volunteer with the Gore campaign, so she wasn't entirely 36 00:02:01,711 --> 00:02:04,791 Speaker 1: on the sidelines, but it was not her burden to bear. 37 00:02:04,871 --> 00:02:06,991 Speaker 1: When her daughter in law called an election day to 38 00:02:06,991 --> 00:02:09,311 Speaker 1: inform her that something had gone awry with the ballots 39 00:02:09,311 --> 00:02:11,511 Speaker 1: in Palm Beach, it. 40 00:02:11,471 --> 00:02:13,550 Speaker 7: Was in all the radios, all that cha. They were 41 00:02:13,591 --> 00:02:14,311 Speaker 7: talking about it. 42 00:02:14,391 --> 00:02:17,150 Speaker 5: Here's how the presidential candidates are listed on Palm Beach 43 00:02:17,191 --> 00:02:20,271 Speaker 5: County's punch card ballot. Voters we talked to feel the 44 00:02:20,311 --> 00:02:22,631 Speaker 5: ballot's layout is confusing, and. 45 00:02:22,631 --> 00:02:25,150 Speaker 7: She said, you know, I'm not sure I've voted correctly. 46 00:02:25,231 --> 00:02:28,471 Speaker 1: After hearing that word spread across Palm Beach that if 47 00:02:28,471 --> 00:02:30,870 Speaker 1: you weren't paying close attention, it was easy to punch 48 00:02:30,951 --> 00:02:32,911 Speaker 1: through the wrong hole and vote for a candidate you 49 00:02:32,911 --> 00:02:33,871 Speaker 1: didn't mean to vote for. 50 00:02:34,311 --> 00:02:37,511 Speaker 8: Here's the problem. In Palm Beach County, they use what's 51 00:02:37,551 --> 00:02:40,591 Speaker 8: called a punch hole ballot. To vote for the first name, 52 00:02:40,711 --> 00:02:44,191 Speaker 8: George Bush, a voter would punch the first hole. Al 53 00:02:44,271 --> 00:02:47,791 Speaker 8: Gore's name was listed right under Bush's, but voting for 54 00:02:47,911 --> 00:02:52,071 Speaker 8: Gore required punching the third hole down, not the second. 55 00:02:52,511 --> 00:02:54,391 Speaker 9: Gore is the second person down. 56 00:02:54,711 --> 00:02:58,271 Speaker 10: This is the second hole down. I made a mistake. 57 00:02:58,711 --> 00:03:01,191 Speaker 1: What made the crisis in Palm Beach so gut wrenching 58 00:03:01,551 --> 00:03:03,591 Speaker 1: was that lots of people seemed to have all made 59 00:03:03,591 --> 00:03:06,550 Speaker 1: the same mistake. These were people who had wanted to 60 00:03:06,631 --> 00:03:09,151 Speaker 1: vote for Al Gore, and instead they voted for the 61 00:03:09,231 --> 00:03:11,631 Speaker 1: right wing third party candidate, Pat Buchanan. 62 00:03:12,271 --> 00:03:14,751 Speaker 11: I almost drove off the road when I heard that 63 00:03:14,831 --> 00:03:16,391 Speaker 11: I voted for Pat Buchanan. 64 00:03:16,631 --> 00:03:18,951 Speaker 12: I am not the only one that was confused, and 65 00:03:19,071 --> 00:03:23,311 Speaker 12: many people probably voted for Buchanan meaning to vote for Gore, 66 00:03:23,591 --> 00:03:24,351 Speaker 12: and that's wrong. 67 00:03:24,791 --> 00:03:27,991 Speaker 1: Pat Buchanan first rose to national prominence as a speechwriter 68 00:03:28,111 --> 00:03:31,431 Speaker 1: and senior adviser to Richard Nixon. He'd run for president 69 00:03:31,471 --> 00:03:34,231 Speaker 1: under the banner of the Reform Party, and his prospects 70 00:03:34,231 --> 00:03:37,111 Speaker 1: in Palm Beach County had not been great, in part 71 00:03:37,151 --> 00:03:38,631 Speaker 1: because there were a lot of Jewish people who lived 72 00:03:38,631 --> 00:03:41,231 Speaker 1: in Palm Beach, and Buchanan had a history of making 73 00:03:41,231 --> 00:03:45,751 Speaker 1: comments that were perceived as antisemitic. Most recently, Buchanan had 74 00:03:45,751 --> 00:03:48,431 Speaker 1: reinforced that perception by arguing in a book that Adolph 75 00:03:48,511 --> 00:03:51,671 Speaker 1: Hitler had never represented a real threat to American interests. 76 00:03:52,271 --> 00:03:55,551 Speaker 8: Palm Beach County is heavily democratic, with large blocks of 77 00:03:55,631 --> 00:03:59,631 Speaker 8: black and Jewish voters, not exactly Pat Buchanan country, Yet 78 00:03:59,631 --> 00:04:02,591 Speaker 8: he polled three times as many votes here as any 79 00:04:02,631 --> 00:04:03,751 Speaker 8: other county in the state. 80 00:04:04,151 --> 00:04:07,071 Speaker 1: Buchanan got more than three thousand votes in Palm Beach County, 81 00:04:07,671 --> 00:04:09,671 Speaker 1: six times as many as he got in Miami Dade, 82 00:04:09,711 --> 00:04:13,111 Speaker 1: which was twice as big. Some voters had punched holes 83 00:04:13,111 --> 00:04:15,991 Speaker 1: for both Gore and Buchanan, meaning their ballots had been 84 00:04:15,991 --> 00:04:19,950 Speaker 1: automatically invalidated. Common sense suggested that most of these people 85 00:04:20,031 --> 00:04:23,390 Speaker 1: had voted for Buchanan unintentionally, then caught their mistake and 86 00:04:23,431 --> 00:04:26,791 Speaker 1: tried to correct it. Even Buchanan acknowledged that some of 87 00:04:26,791 --> 00:04:28,711 Speaker 1: his votes in Palm Beach had probably been meant for 88 00:04:28,751 --> 00:04:31,911 Speaker 1: the ticket that included Joe Lieberman, the first Jewish candidate 89 00:04:31,911 --> 00:04:33,951 Speaker 1: for vice president nominated by a major party. 90 00:04:34,391 --> 00:04:37,510 Speaker 13: If the two candidates they pushed were Buchanan and Gore, 91 00:04:38,551 --> 00:04:43,391 Speaker 13: almost certainly those are al Gore's votes and not mine. 92 00:04:43,471 --> 00:04:45,671 Speaker 1: The ballot in Palm Beach quickly became known in the 93 00:04:45,671 --> 00:04:48,911 Speaker 1: media as the butterfly ballot because the candidate's names appeared 94 00:04:48,911 --> 00:04:51,471 Speaker 1: on two opposing pages like wings, and there was a 95 00:04:51,551 --> 00:04:53,991 Speaker 1: row of punch holes running down the middle. Most of 96 00:04:53,991 --> 00:04:56,391 Speaker 1: the voters who had issues with the butterfly ballot were elderly, 97 00:04:56,991 --> 00:04:59,031 Speaker 1: and there were a lot of elderly voters in Palm 98 00:04:59,071 --> 00:05:01,791 Speaker 1: Beach County. Here's Jackie Winchester. 99 00:05:01,391 --> 00:05:05,671 Speaker 7: Again, and most of the retirement communities, the big condos 100 00:05:06,031 --> 00:05:08,831 Speaker 7: that tend to vote early in the morning, and it 101 00:05:08,911 --> 00:05:11,830 Speaker 7: was in those. He thinks that all of these people 102 00:05:11,911 --> 00:05:14,551 Speaker 7: were saying that they were afraid they had voted for Buchanan, 103 00:05:14,991 --> 00:05:16,351 Speaker 7: and of course they did. 104 00:05:16,671 --> 00:05:20,591 Speaker 1: Actually, Winchester was eighty nine years old and living in 105 00:05:20,631 --> 00:05:23,431 Speaker 1: a retirement community herself. When I spoke to her on 106 00:05:23,511 --> 00:05:26,551 Speaker 1: election Day two thousand. She arrived at the Gore campaign's 107 00:05:26,631 --> 00:05:29,390 Speaker 1: Palm Beach office at around ten in the morning and 108 00:05:29,471 --> 00:05:31,751 Speaker 1: started taking calls from distressed voters. 109 00:05:32,511 --> 00:05:36,391 Speaker 7: It was just really very sad because these are people 110 00:05:36,431 --> 00:05:39,951 Speaker 7: who had been voting all their allows. Voting was very 111 00:05:39,951 --> 00:05:42,190 Speaker 7: important to them, and they felt that they had lost 112 00:05:42,191 --> 00:05:45,190 Speaker 7: their vote and they wanted to know what they could 113 00:05:45,271 --> 00:05:47,911 Speaker 7: do about it, or said there wasn't anything they could 114 00:05:47,951 --> 00:05:48,950 Speaker 7: do about it. 115 00:05:48,951 --> 00:05:49,991 Speaker 8: It could have happened anywhere. 116 00:05:49,991 --> 00:05:51,471 Speaker 14: A rocket scientist could have happened. 117 00:05:51,791 --> 00:05:54,751 Speaker 8: Meet Jim Pesh. Yes, he designs rockets. 118 00:05:55,191 --> 00:05:56,151 Speaker 7: Let me get this straight. 119 00:05:56,991 --> 00:06:01,071 Speaker 8: You're a rocket scientist, literally, and you had problems. 120 00:06:01,671 --> 00:06:04,271 Speaker 1: As the gravity of the butterfly ballot debacle set in, 121 00:06:04,951 --> 00:06:07,391 Speaker 1: Winchester started to worry about the woman who had replaced 122 00:06:07,391 --> 00:06:10,630 Speaker 1: her as election supervisor in Palm Beach. Her name was 123 00:06:10,671 --> 00:06:14,031 Speaker 1: Teresa Lapour. She had started working at the election's office 124 00:06:14,071 --> 00:06:16,751 Speaker 1: as Winchester's assistant when she was still a teenager, and 125 00:06:16,791 --> 00:06:18,791 Speaker 1: she had been climbing her way up the ladder ever since. 126 00:06:21,191 --> 00:06:25,031 Speaker 1: As election supervisor, Lapour had commissioned the butterfly ballot design 127 00:06:25,351 --> 00:06:28,111 Speaker 1: and she had signed off on it. Others had seen 128 00:06:28,151 --> 00:06:31,111 Speaker 1: it too, both the Democrats and the Republicans in Florida 129 00:06:31,111 --> 00:06:33,950 Speaker 1: had approved the ballot design in advance, but when the 130 00:06:33,951 --> 00:06:36,791 Speaker 1: ballot became a national news story, it was Lapour who 131 00:06:36,791 --> 00:06:37,951 Speaker 1: was held responsible for it. 132 00:06:38,071 --> 00:06:41,591 Speaker 5: The Supervisor of Elections, Teresa Lapour says, voters are across 133 00:06:41,631 --> 00:06:45,031 Speaker 5: the county have expressed their concerns about the presidential ballot. 134 00:06:45,351 --> 00:06:47,950 Speaker 15: If voters need to remember that, they should punch the 135 00:06:47,991 --> 00:06:50,231 Speaker 15: whole next to the ear next to the number next 136 00:06:50,231 --> 00:06:52,431 Speaker 15: to the name of the candidate they want to vote for. 137 00:06:53,351 --> 00:06:56,711 Speaker 1: Lapour didn't conceive of the butterfly ballot thoughtlessly. It was 138 00:06:56,751 --> 00:06:59,791 Speaker 1: an attempt to solve a very specific problem. In nineteen 139 00:06:59,831 --> 00:07:02,471 Speaker 1: ninety eight, Florida had passed a law making it easier 140 00:07:02,511 --> 00:07:05,591 Speaker 1: for third party candidates to qualify for inclusion on the ballot. 141 00:07:06,351 --> 00:07:09,671 Speaker 1: In two thousand, election supervisors across the state had to 142 00:07:09,711 --> 00:07:13,031 Speaker 1: make for ten presidential candidates. They all dealt with it 143 00:07:13,031 --> 00:07:16,551 Speaker 1: in their own way, which underscorees how strangely decentralized a 144 00:07:16,631 --> 00:07:20,751 Speaker 1: national election really is. Every county in Florida had jurisdiction 145 00:07:20,831 --> 00:07:25,431 Speaker 1: over their own ballots. Teresa Lapour decided that ten candidates 146 00:07:25,551 --> 00:07:27,311 Speaker 1: was too many to fit on one page because the 147 00:07:27,351 --> 00:07:30,071 Speaker 1: type would be too small, so she spread them out 148 00:07:30,071 --> 00:07:31,551 Speaker 1: over to She. 149 00:07:31,671 --> 00:07:34,311 Speaker 7: Had said that she did it that way because she 150 00:07:34,391 --> 00:07:38,151 Speaker 7: felt that she could make the print larger, that there 151 00:07:38,151 --> 00:07:40,791 Speaker 7: are a lot of older people in Palm Beach County 152 00:07:41,271 --> 00:07:45,031 Speaker 7: with vision problems, and that she rather than do it 153 00:07:45,071 --> 00:07:47,071 Speaker 7: the way the other coundies who are doing it where 154 00:07:47,111 --> 00:07:49,191 Speaker 7: the print would have been smaller, that she could make 155 00:07:49,231 --> 00:07:50,711 Speaker 7: the print larger this way. 156 00:07:51,231 --> 00:07:52,631 Speaker 5: Lapour remained silent. 157 00:07:52,711 --> 00:07:55,271 Speaker 16: In response to the anger, She says through her attorney, 158 00:07:55,311 --> 00:07:57,871 Speaker 16: she designed the ballot with the elderly folks in mind, 159 00:07:58,111 --> 00:07:59,791 Speaker 16: with the hopes they could see it better. 160 00:07:59,871 --> 00:08:02,551 Speaker 17: And that's a heavy burden on the shoulders of Teresa Lapour. 161 00:08:06,791 --> 00:08:10,031 Speaker 1: The day after the election, Jackie Winchester visited her oldfe 162 00:08:10,271 --> 00:08:13,191 Speaker 1: in downtown Palm Beach to see how Lapoor was holding up. 163 00:08:14,151 --> 00:08:17,071 Speaker 1: It was a sympathy call from one season supervisor of 164 00:08:17,071 --> 00:08:17,911 Speaker 1: Elections to another. 165 00:08:18,351 --> 00:08:21,271 Speaker 7: She was really being i would say, being dumped on, 166 00:08:22,111 --> 00:08:25,311 Speaker 7: and she was crying. She was very upset, and I've 167 00:08:25,351 --> 00:08:27,471 Speaker 7: told her you know that I was sorry she was 168 00:08:27,511 --> 00:08:31,351 Speaker 7: having to go through all that and she didn't mean 169 00:08:31,431 --> 00:08:33,951 Speaker 7: to cause any problems. 170 00:08:35,071 --> 00:08:36,471 Speaker 1: Did she have any advice for her? 171 00:08:37,231 --> 00:08:37,711 Speaker 7: No? 172 00:08:37,871 --> 00:08:38,271 Speaker 11: Why not? 173 00:08:39,511 --> 00:08:42,470 Speaker 7: At that point there was nothing that could be done. 174 00:08:42,550 --> 00:08:43,751 Speaker 7: The election was over. 175 00:08:45,631 --> 00:08:48,751 Speaker 1: In fact, Teresa Lapour had a whole lot of elections 176 00:08:48,751 --> 00:08:51,751 Speaker 1: still ahead of her. Lapour, who did not respond to 177 00:08:51,751 --> 00:08:54,711 Speaker 1: my interview requests, described the experience in the two thousand 178 00:08:54,710 --> 00:08:58,310 Speaker 1: and four documentary. I kind of likened the whole thing 179 00:08:58,351 --> 00:08:59,550 Speaker 1: to my perfect storm. 180 00:09:00,190 --> 00:09:02,831 Speaker 18: All the planets were lined upright, and everything just kind 181 00:09:02,830 --> 00:09:04,511 Speaker 18: of collided over Palm Beach County. 182 00:09:04,871 --> 00:09:07,231 Speaker 1: As lawyers for the two campaigns descended on Palm Beach 183 00:09:07,271 --> 00:09:10,470 Speaker 1: to litigate the butterfly ballot, Lapour would find her working 184 00:09:10,511 --> 00:09:14,231 Speaker 1: eighteen hour days, facing down protesters outside her office and 185 00:09:14,271 --> 00:09:16,671 Speaker 1: receiving so many death threats that she needed a security 186 00:09:16,670 --> 00:09:20,231 Speaker 1: detail to accompany her home at night. Later, Lapoor would 187 00:09:20,231 --> 00:09:23,191 Speaker 1: teller reporter for the Saint Petersburg Times, you want my blood, 188 00:09:24,070 --> 00:09:33,071 Speaker 1: here take it. I'm Leon Nafock from Prologue Projects and 189 00:09:33,151 --> 00:09:38,951 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. This is fiasco Bush v. Gore. Tonight the 190 00:09:38,991 --> 00:09:42,030 Speaker 1: debate over when a vote is a vote? Nineteen thousand 191 00:09:42,030 --> 00:09:44,111 Speaker 1: Americans were disenfranchised. 192 00:09:44,111 --> 00:09:47,030 Speaker 4: I wanted to cook the books until they could figure 193 00:09:47,070 --> 00:09:49,231 Speaker 4: out how to win an election. They had lost it. 194 00:09:49,271 --> 00:09:53,110 Speaker 1: Results in this one county could tell the tale episode 195 00:09:53,111 --> 00:09:57,470 Speaker 1: three ballot with butterfly wings. How the recount battle in 196 00:09:57,550 --> 00:10:02,151 Speaker 1: Florida started, and how both Republicans and Democrats became convinced 197 00:10:02,471 --> 00:10:08,990 Speaker 1: that the White House was being stolen by the other side. 198 00:10:09,151 --> 00:10:11,991 Speaker 1: Catherine Harris probably the closest thing to a household name 199 00:10:12,070 --> 00:10:15,430 Speaker 1: to emerge from the two thousand recount. As Florida's Secretary 200 00:10:15,471 --> 00:10:18,311 Speaker 1: of State, Harris was the ultimate authority over the state's 201 00:10:18,310 --> 00:10:22,391 Speaker 1: election results on election day, her office was responsible for 202 00:10:22,391 --> 00:10:25,190 Speaker 1: collecting vote totals from all sixty seven counties in Florida, 203 00:10:25,871 --> 00:10:28,751 Speaker 1: then declaring a winner as part of a formal certification process. 204 00:10:29,151 --> 00:10:32,111 Speaker 6: It was kind of a ministerial job. You add up 205 00:10:32,151 --> 00:10:34,351 Speaker 6: sixty seven counties and you say who won the election. 206 00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:38,231 Speaker 1: That's Harris. She was elected Florida Secretary of State in 207 00:10:38,310 --> 00:10:42,391 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, so, unlike Jackie Winchester, the two thousand 208 00:10:42,471 --> 00:10:45,751 Speaker 1: election was very much her problem. If her job had 209 00:10:45,751 --> 00:10:49,030 Speaker 1: ever been ministerial, that flew out the window very quickly 210 00:10:49,070 --> 00:10:53,670 Speaker 1: on November eighth. Throughout the recount period, Harris was part referee, 211 00:10:53,871 --> 00:10:57,871 Speaker 1: part timekeeper, someone who advised county election officials on vote 212 00:10:57,910 --> 00:11:01,751 Speaker 1: counting procedure and enforced statewide deadlines set forth in Florida 213 00:11:01,790 --> 00:11:05,391 Speaker 1: election law. Harris's point of view on the butterfly ballot 214 00:11:05,391 --> 00:11:07,871 Speaker 1: issue was that it was kind of overblown. 215 00:11:07,790 --> 00:11:10,471 Speaker 6: As see you where they were confused. I don't think 216 00:11:10,471 --> 00:11:12,631 Speaker 6: I would have made that mistake. It was not that 217 00:11:12,751 --> 00:11:15,230 Speaker 6: hard to vote for Gore. That was actually kind of simple. 218 00:11:15,271 --> 00:11:17,511 Speaker 6: But if somebody wanted to be confused, or I mean 219 00:11:17,511 --> 00:11:20,191 Speaker 6: not wanted to be confused, but they're getting nervous in 220 00:11:20,190 --> 00:11:21,551 Speaker 6: their voting, than perhaps they were. 221 00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:27,550 Speaker 1: The two thousand election thrust Harris into an awkward role. 222 00:11:28,590 --> 00:11:31,470 Speaker 1: On paper, she was supposed to be a political and independent, 223 00:11:31,871 --> 00:11:34,271 Speaker 1: but she was also an elected official, and like the 224 00:11:34,351 --> 00:11:37,030 Speaker 1: vast majority of elected officials, she had a part as 225 00:11:37,070 --> 00:11:41,271 Speaker 1: an affiliation. Harris was a Republican. It wasn't a secret 226 00:11:41,550 --> 00:11:43,670 Speaker 1: she had run for Secretary of State as a Republican 227 00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:46,351 Speaker 1: and she had been aligned with the Republican Party since 228 00:11:46,391 --> 00:11:50,111 Speaker 1: the start of her political career. During the two thousand campaign, 229 00:11:50,670 --> 00:11:53,191 Speaker 1: Harris served as one of George W. Bush's co chairs 230 00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:56,151 Speaker 1: in Florida. She also stumped for Bush as part of 231 00:11:56,190 --> 00:11:58,271 Speaker 1: the Freezon for a Reason bus tour when she gave 232 00:11:58,310 --> 00:12:01,751 Speaker 1: out Florida oranges to Bush supporters in New Hampshire. Again, 233 00:12:01,790 --> 00:12:04,951 Speaker 1: there was nothing inherently sinister about this, but when Harris 234 00:12:04,950 --> 00:12:08,151 Speaker 1: started making one decision after another that seemed to benefit Bush, 235 00:12:08,631 --> 00:12:10,871 Speaker 1: Democrats had a hard time seeing her as a genuinely 236 00:12:10,910 --> 00:12:11,550 Speaker 1: neutral arbiter. 237 00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:15,951 Speaker 5: The Gore campaign press secretary has called the Secretary of 238 00:12:15,950 --> 00:12:17,151 Speaker 5: State in Florida. 239 00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:21,350 Speaker 15: A hack Gore advisor, accusing Florida's Republican secretary of State 240 00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:23,511 Speaker 15: and just try to ensure a Bush victory. 241 00:12:23,950 --> 00:12:26,430 Speaker 1: Harris adamantly rejects the suggestion that she was trying to 242 00:12:26,471 --> 00:12:29,750 Speaker 1: help Bush win, even though she obviously did want him 243 00:12:29,751 --> 00:12:32,750 Speaker 1: to win she campaigned for him. She maintains that a 244 00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:36,231 Speaker 1: Secretary of State, she made unbiased decisions without any particular 245 00:12:36,271 --> 00:12:37,030 Speaker 1: outcome in mind. 246 00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:40,310 Speaker 6: In fact, the law was my only safe harbor. People 247 00:12:40,391 --> 00:12:43,470 Speaker 6: still come up to me and say thank you a weekly. 248 00:12:43,550 --> 00:12:47,950 Speaker 6: I'm in airports every week, so I'm surprised by that, 249 00:12:48,030 --> 00:12:51,351 Speaker 6: but I've never accepted that compliment. I just say, hey, 250 00:12:51,391 --> 00:12:54,111 Speaker 6: I didn't do anything special. I just followed our laws 251 00:12:54,111 --> 00:12:54,951 Speaker 6: and they were sufficient. 252 00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:59,231 Speaker 1: One of the first laws Catherine Harris had to enforce 253 00:12:59,271 --> 00:13:02,070 Speaker 1: after election day was one you might remember from our 254 00:13:02,070 --> 00:13:05,631 Speaker 1: previous episode. It was the law acquiring a statewide machine 255 00:13:05,631 --> 00:13:08,311 Speaker 1: recount whenever the margin between two candidates was less than 256 00:13:08,351 --> 00:13:11,951 Speaker 1: half of one percent. Bush's lead before the machine recount 257 00:13:12,151 --> 00:13:14,630 Speaker 1: was one seven hundred and eighty four votes out of 258 00:13:14,670 --> 00:13:18,591 Speaker 1: almost six million cast, so three one hundredths of one 259 00:13:18,631 --> 00:13:20,550 Speaker 1: percent of the overall vote total. 260 00:13:21,391 --> 00:13:24,751 Speaker 6: We did a machine recount within seventy two hours for 261 00:13:24,830 --> 00:13:27,910 Speaker 6: the entire state. It was remarkable. That was not an 262 00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:30,270 Speaker 6: easy task, but we did that in seventy two hours, 263 00:13:30,670 --> 00:13:33,751 Speaker 6: and at that time, and for the equipment that we had, 264 00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:35,910 Speaker 6: computerization to get it done in seventy two hours? 265 00:13:35,991 --> 00:13:39,551 Speaker 1: Or was the remarkable feat? After the break the results 266 00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:48,191 Speaker 1: of the machine recount, the new numbers came in on 267 00:13:48,231 --> 00:13:49,791 Speaker 1: the Friday morning after the election. 268 00:13:50,231 --> 00:13:53,710 Speaker 18: An unofficial Tallly of all Florida counties gives George W. 269 00:13:53,830 --> 00:13:57,310 Speaker 18: Bush a minuscule three hundred and twenty seven vote lead 270 00:13:57,391 --> 00:14:00,590 Speaker 18: over Al Gore out of six million votes cast. 271 00:14:00,790 --> 00:14:03,190 Speaker 1: The margin between Bush and Gore shrank to just three 272 00:14:03,310 --> 00:14:07,151 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty seven votes, so five to one thousandths 273 00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:13,151 Speaker 1: of one percent. Under normal circumstances, a fluctuation of fourteen 274 00:14:13,231 --> 00:14:15,950 Speaker 1: hundred votes in a state wide race wouldn't sound like much, 275 00:14:16,670 --> 00:14:19,871 Speaker 1: but Bush's lead had been cut by significantly more votes 276 00:14:19,911 --> 00:14:23,471 Speaker 1: than the new margin separating him from Gore. It suggested 277 00:14:23,511 --> 00:14:26,351 Speaker 1: that a third recount could produce a totally different result 278 00:14:26,551 --> 00:14:29,990 Speaker 1: and maybe even put Gore ahead. The magnitude of the 279 00:14:30,071 --> 00:14:32,470 Speaker 1: change in the vote total called into question the very 280 00:14:32,551 --> 00:14:35,671 Speaker 1: idea that an objectively accurate vote count was possible. 281 00:14:35,830 --> 00:14:39,151 Speaker 12: Many in this nation are getting anxious what many called 282 00:14:39,271 --> 00:14:43,271 Speaker 12: the beginning of potentially a constitutional crisis in this nation. 283 00:14:43,951 --> 00:14:47,551 Speaker 1: Neither campaign had time for such philosophical angst. From the 284 00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:50,551 Speaker 1: moment they arrived in Florida. Bush's people were fighting to 285 00:14:50,590 --> 00:14:51,311 Speaker 1: protect their lead. 286 00:14:51,431 --> 00:14:54,431 Speaker 13: They want a quick, almost mechanical recount. How George W. 287 00:14:54,511 --> 00:14:57,391 Speaker 13: Bush certified on the road to inauguration. 288 00:14:57,031 --> 00:14:59,511 Speaker 1: While Gore's were trying to find enough votes to overcome it. 289 00:14:59,551 --> 00:15:02,511 Speaker 13: The Gore campaign is trying to lengthen out the timeline, 290 00:15:02,631 --> 00:15:06,311 Speaker 13: gather the facts for any irregularities in the Florida ballot, 291 00:15:06,431 --> 00:15:07,750 Speaker 13: and then moved to a challenge. 292 00:15:08,271 --> 00:15:11,071 Speaker 1: But what exactly was being challenged? What were the two 293 00:15:11,151 --> 00:15:14,551 Speaker 1: campaigns fighting over. The guy brought in to answer these 294 00:15:14,590 --> 00:15:17,671 Speaker 1: questions for the Gore campaign was Jack Young, a lawyer 295 00:15:17,671 --> 00:15:21,551 Speaker 1: specializing in recount law. On the morning of November eighth, 296 00:15:21,871 --> 00:15:25,511 Speaker 1: Young briefed Gore's top advisors in Nashville. Then he got 297 00:15:25,511 --> 00:15:27,071 Speaker 1: on the recount one plane to Florida. 298 00:15:27,751 --> 00:15:30,951 Speaker 19: The question that was asked of May was, how does 299 00:15:31,191 --> 00:15:35,391 Speaker 19: a recount work? What do you need to do if 300 00:15:35,431 --> 00:15:38,350 Speaker 19: we are to go through a recount in Florida. 301 00:15:38,911 --> 00:15:41,311 Speaker 1: Young knew what he was talking about. He was the 302 00:15:41,351 --> 00:15:43,751 Speaker 1: co author of a short book called The Recount Primer. 303 00:15:44,071 --> 00:15:48,391 Speaker 19: The Recount Primer who was, in essence, a printed set 304 00:15:48,431 --> 00:15:52,591 Speaker 19: of instructions as to how to deal with a recount, 305 00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:56,390 Speaker 19: starting with election night and then going through the process. 306 00:15:56,911 --> 00:15:59,271 Speaker 19: It's probably thirty pages at best. 307 00:16:00,111 --> 00:16:02,671 Speaker 1: As Young explained to the Gore team, the big prize 308 00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:04,791 Speaker 1: on the table between their guy and the other guy 309 00:16:05,191 --> 00:16:07,551 Speaker 1: was a mountain of ballots cast across Florida that had 310 00:16:07,551 --> 00:16:10,031 Speaker 1: either come up as invalid or didn't record any vote 311 00:16:10,191 --> 00:16:14,270 Speaker 1: for president. These ballots could be divided into two categories, 312 00:16:14,590 --> 00:16:18,391 Speaker 1: undervotes and overvotes. You can think of undervotes as the 313 00:16:18,391 --> 00:16:21,751 Speaker 1: result of not voting enough, and overvotes as the result 314 00:16:21,830 --> 00:16:22,791 Speaker 1: of voting too much. 315 00:16:23,151 --> 00:16:26,991 Speaker 19: An undervote is an instance where the machine didn't pick 316 00:16:27,071 --> 00:16:31,071 Speaker 19: up a vote, and overvotes what you're looking at is 317 00:16:31,631 --> 00:16:36,431 Speaker 19: people having voted for two candidates when the selection is 318 00:16:36,471 --> 00:16:37,871 Speaker 19: for only one. 319 00:16:37,911 --> 00:16:40,351 Speaker 1: There were all kinds of reasons a machine might mistakenly 320 00:16:40,351 --> 00:16:44,110 Speaker 1: classify a valid ballot as an undervote or an overvote. 321 00:16:44,151 --> 00:16:46,551 Speaker 1: With punch card machines like the kind used in Palm Beach, 322 00:16:46,951 --> 00:16:49,151 Speaker 1: people didn't always punch through the hole all the way. 323 00:16:50,271 --> 00:16:53,391 Speaker 1: Sometimes voters just didn't follow instructions. Instead of punching through 324 00:16:53,431 --> 00:16:55,511 Speaker 1: the hole, they'd circle their candidate's name or put a 325 00:16:55,590 --> 00:16:57,631 Speaker 1: check mark next to it, or they'd write it out 326 00:16:57,631 --> 00:17:00,231 Speaker 1: by hand in a random spot on the ballot. In 327 00:17:00,271 --> 00:17:02,710 Speaker 1: a lot of these cases, a human being could look 328 00:17:02,710 --> 00:17:04,911 Speaker 1: at the ballot and discern what the voter had intended, 329 00:17:05,311 --> 00:17:08,911 Speaker 1: something a machine couldn't do. That was why, according to 330 00:17:08,991 --> 00:17:12,110 Speaker 1: Jack Young and the Recount Primer, the Gore campaign's first 331 00:17:12,111 --> 00:17:14,630 Speaker 1: step was to demand a hand recount in as many 332 00:17:14,671 --> 00:17:17,910 Speaker 1: counties as they could. The more under votes and over 333 00:17:18,031 --> 00:17:21,111 Speaker 1: votes were counted by hand, the more chances Gore had 334 00:17:21,150 --> 00:17:23,031 Speaker 1: to eat away at the three hundred and twenty seven 335 00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:25,031 Speaker 1: vote margins separating him from Bush. 336 00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:27,950 Speaker 19: If you're behind, you want to expand the recount as 337 00:17:28,031 --> 00:17:31,870 Speaker 19: much as you can. Now there's no guarantee, obviously with 338 00:17:31,991 --> 00:17:35,151 Speaker 19: punch cards that it's going to come out your way, 339 00:17:36,511 --> 00:17:38,871 Speaker 19: but it's going to be different, and if you're behind, 340 00:17:39,711 --> 00:17:40,951 Speaker 19: different is good. 341 00:17:41,991 --> 00:17:44,511 Speaker 1: Young urged the top lieutenants on the Gore legal team 342 00:17:44,590 --> 00:17:47,751 Speaker 1: to ask for hand recounts in all sixty seven Florida counties. 343 00:17:48,511 --> 00:17:50,590 Speaker 1: This would have been consistent with the Gore team's main 344 00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:53,471 Speaker 1: talking point from the days after the election that all 345 00:17:53,471 --> 00:17:55,390 Speaker 1: they wanted was to get every vote counted. 346 00:17:59,150 --> 00:18:02,431 Speaker 19: We have consistently maintained that every volte must. 347 00:18:02,231 --> 00:18:06,830 Speaker 1: Count, but Young was ultimately overruled. Instead, the Gore team 348 00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:10,390 Speaker 1: decided to make a much narrower, more modest request, zero 349 00:18:10,431 --> 00:18:11,711 Speaker 1: in on just four counties. 350 00:18:12,110 --> 00:18:15,830 Speaker 12: Today, the appropriate Florida Democratic officials will be requesting a 351 00:18:15,951 --> 00:18:19,031 Speaker 12: hand count of ballots in Palm Beach County, as well 352 00:18:19,071 --> 00:18:20,591 Speaker 12: as three other counties. 353 00:18:20,231 --> 00:18:24,511 Speaker 1: Miami Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, and Volusia. The request was 354 00:18:24,551 --> 00:18:28,590 Speaker 1: actually less modest than it sounds. Miami Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, 355 00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:32,470 Speaker 1: and Volusia were four of the biggest counties in Florida. Together, 356 00:18:32,551 --> 00:18:36,190 Speaker 1: they represented thirty four percent of Florida's population, and between 357 00:18:36,231 --> 00:18:41,031 Speaker 1: them they had received approximately one point nine million ballots. Still, 358 00:18:41,150 --> 00:18:43,710 Speaker 1: why didn't Gore just request a hand recount across the 359 00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:46,230 Speaker 1: entire state? Like Jack Young was imploring him to do. 360 00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:49,830 Speaker 1: The practical answer is that at this stage in the process, 361 00:18:50,191 --> 00:18:52,791 Speaker 1: there was no mechanism in Florida law allowing a candidate 362 00:18:52,830 --> 00:18:55,311 Speaker 1: to ask for a statewide recount, and one fell swoop. 363 00:18:55,911 --> 00:18:58,791 Speaker 1: If Gore wanted hand recounts in all sixty seven counties, 364 00:18:59,471 --> 00:19:01,271 Speaker 1: his lawyers would have to make the case in each 365 00:19:01,311 --> 00:19:05,631 Speaker 1: county individually, and that would be a logistical nightmare. Some 366 00:19:05,671 --> 00:19:08,711 Speaker 1: of Gore's advisors also thought it would be risky. Even 367 00:19:08,711 --> 00:19:11,911 Speaker 1: if Gore could somehow get all all sixty seven recompetitions filed, 368 00:19:12,350 --> 00:19:14,671 Speaker 1: the Bush lawyers could just selectively fight the ones most 369 00:19:14,671 --> 00:19:17,311 Speaker 1: likely to favor Democrats while letting the ones in Republican 370 00:19:17,311 --> 00:19:21,031 Speaker 1: counties go forward. At a press conference, the head of 371 00:19:21,071 --> 00:19:25,471 Speaker 1: Gore's recount team, Warren Christopher, explained that Miami Dade, Broward, Felucia, 372 00:19:25,551 --> 00:19:28,590 Speaker 1: and Palm Beach had been selected because each one experienced 373 00:19:28,590 --> 00:19:29,911 Speaker 1: some weirdness on election day. 374 00:19:30,231 --> 00:19:34,071 Speaker 15: The only four counties in which and counts were requested 375 00:19:34,551 --> 00:19:37,951 Speaker 15: were counties where there was real anomalies that showed up 376 00:19:38,191 --> 00:19:39,431 Speaker 15: real irregularities. 377 00:19:39,630 --> 00:19:42,470 Speaker 1: Basically, it was a grab bag. Palm Beach was in 378 00:19:42,471 --> 00:19:44,950 Speaker 1: there because of the butterfly ballot Belusia was in there 379 00:19:44,951 --> 00:19:46,630 Speaker 1: because there had been glitches in their vote count on 380 00:19:46,671 --> 00:19:50,511 Speaker 1: election night. As for Miami Dade and Broward, those two 381 00:19:50,511 --> 00:19:52,071 Speaker 1: got thrown in because it looked like there was a 382 00:19:52,071 --> 00:19:56,031 Speaker 1: disproportionate number of under votes there. But irregularities were not 383 00:19:56,110 --> 00:19:58,791 Speaker 1: the only thing these four counties had in common, as 384 00:19:58,830 --> 00:20:01,791 Speaker 1: Republicans and the media quickly pointed out, they were also 385 00:20:01,911 --> 00:20:03,271 Speaker 1: full of Democratic voters. 386 00:20:03,551 --> 00:20:04,551 Speaker 8: Certainly, all of this. 387 00:20:04,590 --> 00:20:07,271 Speaker 20: Is them asking for things and then crossing their fingers 388 00:20:07,271 --> 00:20:08,830 Speaker 20: that they're going to get the votes there. They don't 389 00:20:08,830 --> 00:20:10,390 Speaker 20: have any hard evidence count of. 390 00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:13,191 Speaker 9: These cherry picked counties that are designed to help Al Gore. 391 00:20:13,431 --> 00:20:16,271 Speaker 1: Gore's decision to only ask for recounts in four Democratic 392 00:20:16,311 --> 00:20:19,791 Speaker 1: counties was a pr disaster. It also alienated the Florida 393 00:20:19,791 --> 00:20:22,830 Speaker 1: Secretary of State's office, where the perception among staff was 394 00:20:22,830 --> 00:20:24,471 Speaker 1: that the Democrats were trying to pull ahead in the 395 00:20:24,551 --> 00:20:26,391 Speaker 1: vote count in a fundamentally unfair way. 396 00:20:26,951 --> 00:20:30,910 Speaker 21: It was unsettling to me that a candidate would cherry 397 00:20:30,911 --> 00:20:34,631 Speaker 21: pick four counties out of sixty seven to recount. 398 00:20:34,991 --> 00:20:37,591 Speaker 1: This is Kerry Carpenter. She was a lawyer and Secretary 399 00:20:37,630 --> 00:20:39,191 Speaker 1: of State Catherine Harris's office. 400 00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:41,470 Speaker 21: I believe all of us on our side were of 401 00:20:41,551 --> 00:20:44,511 Speaker 21: the mindset that it didn't seem right to all the 402 00:20:44,551 --> 00:20:47,751 Speaker 21: other counties. Everybody's vote has to have equal weight. 403 00:20:48,110 --> 00:20:50,390 Speaker 1: The Secretary of State's office did not have the power 404 00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:54,271 Speaker 1: to turn down Gore's recount requests. That authority rested with 405 00:20:54,311 --> 00:20:56,951 Speaker 1: election officials at the county level, who were organized into 406 00:20:56,991 --> 00:21:00,911 Speaker 1: three person panels called canvassing boards. Each county had its 407 00:21:00,911 --> 00:21:03,670 Speaker 1: own canvassing board, and each one was made up of 408 00:21:03,711 --> 00:21:06,870 Speaker 1: the local election supervisor, a local judge, and a local 409 00:21:06,911 --> 00:21:11,630 Speaker 1: county commissioner. In typical election years, the boards played a quiet, 410 00:21:11,991 --> 00:21:15,311 Speaker 1: largely administrative role. At the end of every election, it 411 00:21:15,431 --> 00:21:17,431 Speaker 1: was their job to count up the ballots from every 412 00:21:17,471 --> 00:21:20,271 Speaker 1: voting precinct in the county and transmit the total to 413 00:21:20,311 --> 00:21:23,951 Speaker 1: the Secretary of State's office. Technically, it was the canvassing 414 00:21:23,991 --> 00:21:27,390 Speaker 1: boards in Palm Beach, Broward, Velusia, and Miami Dade that 415 00:21:27,431 --> 00:21:30,870 Speaker 1: Gore's team had to convince that manual recounts were necessary. 416 00:21:31,231 --> 00:21:33,751 Speaker 1: But as Gore's lawyers agitated for the recounts to start 417 00:21:33,791 --> 00:21:36,391 Speaker 1: in the days after the election, it was the Secretary 418 00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:38,991 Speaker 1: of State's office that emerged as the single biggest obstacle 419 00:21:38,991 --> 00:21:44,991 Speaker 1: in their way. 420 00:21:46,031 --> 00:21:50,031 Speaker 12: We're standing by in Tallahassee, Florida for a news conference 421 00:21:50,071 --> 00:21:53,590 Speaker 12: by the Secretary of State of the State of Florida. 422 00:21:54,350 --> 00:21:57,510 Speaker 1: On November ninth, Catherine Harris announced that a press conference 423 00:21:57,551 --> 00:22:01,231 Speaker 1: in Tallahassee that in accordance with Florida law, all counties 424 00:22:01,231 --> 00:22:03,470 Speaker 1: had to have their final vote hollies into her office 425 00:22:03,511 --> 00:22:07,230 Speaker 1: by November fourteenth, seven days after election day Florida. 426 00:22:07,870 --> 00:22:10,991 Speaker 22: We are still awaiting the results from the super elections 427 00:22:11,311 --> 00:22:16,150 Speaker 22: in fourteenth Florida counties, which by law have until Tuesday, 428 00:22:16,431 --> 00:22:20,390 Speaker 22: November fourteenth, to submit those returns to the office of 429 00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:21,430 Speaker 22: the Secretary of State. 430 00:22:22,991 --> 00:22:25,511 Speaker 1: The official position of the Secretary of State's office was 431 00:22:25,511 --> 00:22:29,430 Speaker 1: that the November fourteenth deadline was non negotiable. Harris would 432 00:22:29,431 --> 00:22:32,471 Speaker 1: not be able to accept any late vote tallies, even 433 00:22:32,511 --> 00:22:35,231 Speaker 1: if some counties decided to conduct manual recounts and weren't 434 00:22:35,231 --> 00:22:38,271 Speaker 1: done with them when the deadline came. That was the law, 435 00:22:38,791 --> 00:22:40,511 Speaker 1: and there was nothing Harris could do about it. 436 00:22:40,791 --> 00:22:43,751 Speaker 6: I had no idea to whose benefit it would accrue. 437 00:22:43,911 --> 00:22:46,151 Speaker 6: I just know I had had to follow the law. 438 00:22:46,590 --> 00:22:49,670 Speaker 6: There would be those who would disagree, and they're entitled 439 00:22:49,711 --> 00:22:51,191 Speaker 6: to their opinion. But I don't know what I could 440 00:22:51,231 --> 00:22:52,991 Speaker 6: have done differently in terms of following the law. 441 00:22:53,551 --> 00:22:56,031 Speaker 1: Harris became a media sensation in the weeks after the election, 442 00:22:56,791 --> 00:22:59,791 Speaker 1: and after giving one particularly stilted press conference, she also 443 00:22:59,830 --> 00:23:02,271 Speaker 1: became a targeted ridicule from seeing. 444 00:23:02,071 --> 00:23:04,350 Speaker 19: Her, it's clear why Republicans are not normally caught up 445 00:23:04,350 --> 00:23:04,911 Speaker 19: in the sex scan. 446 00:23:05,071 --> 00:23:05,230 Speaker 11: Is there? 447 00:23:05,390 --> 00:23:09,110 Speaker 1: I think that's when you're drunk. Sure, But then in 448 00:23:09,150 --> 00:23:13,110 Speaker 1: the Washington Post, fashion critic Robin Given described Harris's lips 449 00:23:13,110 --> 00:23:16,791 Speaker 1: as overdrawn with berry red lipstick. Her skin is plastered 450 00:23:16,791 --> 00:23:19,230 Speaker 1: and powdered to the texture of pre war walls, and 451 00:23:19,311 --> 00:23:22,110 Speaker 1: her eyes is rimmed and liner and frosted with blue shadow. 452 00:23:22,511 --> 00:23:24,630 Speaker 15: I had race down there in Florida is tighter than 453 00:23:24,711 --> 00:23:26,031 Speaker 15: Catherine Harris's face. 454 00:23:26,071 --> 00:23:26,831 Speaker 8: The ladies been on. 455 00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:31,710 Speaker 1: Elsewhere. She was depicted as a ditz who had been 456 00:23:31,711 --> 00:23:33,871 Speaker 1: born into a rich family and was in way over 457 00:23:33,911 --> 00:23:37,110 Speaker 1: her head. Here's on a gaest tire impersonating Harris on 458 00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:37,951 Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live. 459 00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:41,751 Speaker 23: I am a public servant. I serve the people of 460 00:23:41,791 --> 00:23:47,830 Speaker 23: Florida and will abide by their directives. Bush one, and 461 00:23:47,951 --> 00:23:50,631 Speaker 23: when he's president, he's going to make me an ambassador 462 00:23:51,471 --> 00:23:54,590 Speaker 23: and not ambassador to some sad country where everyone's poor 463 00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:55,670 Speaker 23: and sick all the time. 464 00:23:56,590 --> 00:23:59,990 Speaker 6: It didn't matter appearance intellect, never mind that I did 465 00:24:00,110 --> 00:24:02,751 Speaker 6: my master's at Harvard and they were acting like I 466 00:24:02,830 --> 00:24:06,230 Speaker 6: was some dilettante. They said, she's the Brahmin of the 467 00:24:06,271 --> 00:24:10,910 Speaker 6: highest order. She's just saying that I was so wealthy 468 00:24:10,951 --> 00:24:11,871 Speaker 6: to be discredited. 469 00:24:13,311 --> 00:24:15,390 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the negative media 470 00:24:15,390 --> 00:24:18,471 Speaker 1: coverage could not take away Harris's power as Secretary of State, 471 00:24:19,231 --> 00:24:21,191 Speaker 1: and that meant she was going to collect vote tallies 472 00:24:21,231 --> 00:24:23,910 Speaker 1: on November fourteenth, just like the law said she had to. 473 00:24:24,471 --> 00:24:27,390 Speaker 6: You know, none of those things are pleasant, but I 474 00:24:27,390 --> 00:24:30,110 Speaker 6: was elected as Warren oath and I was going to 475 00:24:30,150 --> 00:24:30,390 Speaker 6: do it. 476 00:24:31,031 --> 00:24:34,031 Speaker 1: As the deadline approached, all eyes turned to the canvassing 477 00:24:34,071 --> 00:24:37,110 Speaker 1: boards and the four counties where Gore had requested manual recounts, 478 00:24:38,231 --> 00:24:40,271 Speaker 1: and none of them got more attention than Palm Beach. 479 00:24:44,791 --> 00:24:47,031 Speaker 1: The canvassing board in Palm Beach County was made up 480 00:24:47,031 --> 00:24:51,350 Speaker 1: of Election Supervisor Teresa Lapour, County Commissioner Carol Roberts, and 481 00:24:51,390 --> 00:24:52,830 Speaker 1: Circuit Judge Charles Burton. 482 00:24:52,991 --> 00:24:55,110 Speaker 17: They are the members of the Palm Beach County Election 483 00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:58,471 Speaker 17: Canvassing Board. The three of the potential the shape who 484 00:24:58,511 --> 00:25:00,711 Speaker 17: becomes the next president of the United States. 485 00:25:01,071 --> 00:25:04,791 Speaker 20: So here we go into ground zero of the Florida recount. 486 00:25:05,191 --> 00:25:08,231 Speaker 1: This is journalist Jake Tapper. He covered the Palm Beach 487 00:25:08,271 --> 00:25:10,551 Speaker 1: recount for Salon dot com and wrote book about the 488 00:25:10,551 --> 00:25:12,630 Speaker 1: two thousand election called Down and Dirty. 489 00:25:12,991 --> 00:25:18,150 Speaker 20: And there are three individuals there who are in charge 490 00:25:18,191 --> 00:25:22,431 Speaker 20: of everything, and nobody outside of Palm Beach, or even 491 00:25:22,590 --> 00:25:24,830 Speaker 20: most people in Palm Beach probably has ever heard of 492 00:25:24,830 --> 00:25:25,551 Speaker 20: any of them. 493 00:25:25,951 --> 00:25:28,630 Speaker 1: According to Florida law, the way for the canvassing board 494 00:25:28,671 --> 00:25:30,751 Speaker 1: to decide whether or not to order a county wide 495 00:25:30,791 --> 00:25:33,510 Speaker 1: manual recount was to take a sample of the overall 496 00:25:33,630 --> 00:25:37,670 Speaker 1: vote at least one percent in Palm Beach. That translated 497 00:25:37,671 --> 00:25:41,150 Speaker 1: to about forty six hundred ballots. The idea was to 498 00:25:41,191 --> 00:25:43,751 Speaker 1: see how much the margin between the two candidates changed 499 00:25:43,791 --> 00:25:46,990 Speaker 1: once those ballots were recounted by hand. If the difference 500 00:25:47,031 --> 00:25:50,031 Speaker 1: was big enough, the canvassing Board would undertake the laborious 501 00:25:50,031 --> 00:25:52,830 Speaker 1: work of counting all four hundred and sixty two thousand 502 00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:54,791 Speaker 1: votes in the county. 503 00:25:54,991 --> 00:25:58,671 Speaker 11: All right, good morning everyone, We could have quiet in here. 504 00:25:58,711 --> 00:26:01,031 Speaker 11: We can get through this meeting as quickly as possible. 505 00:26:01,031 --> 00:26:02,271 Speaker 11: And get through the matter at hand. 506 00:26:02,751 --> 00:26:05,031 Speaker 1: The one percent test played out in public view at 507 00:26:05,031 --> 00:26:08,111 Speaker 1: the Palm Beach County Government Center, and thanks to Florida's 508 00:26:08,150 --> 00:26:12,071 Speaker 1: expansive transparency laws, the entire proceeding was captured on video 509 00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:16,470 Speaker 1: for posterity. Volunteers from both political parties were dispatched to 510 00:26:16,511 --> 00:26:19,471 Speaker 1: serve as partisan observers. Their job was to watch the 511 00:26:19,551 --> 00:26:22,311 Speaker 1: votes get counted and register formal objections when they disagreed 512 00:26:22,311 --> 00:26:27,390 Speaker 1: with the canvassing Board's judgment that most of the ballots 513 00:26:27,431 --> 00:26:30,670 Speaker 1: being recounted were no brainers. They'd been cast by voters 514 00:26:30,671 --> 00:26:33,311 Speaker 1: who had successfully punched a clean whole next to their 515 00:26:33,311 --> 00:26:37,311 Speaker 1: preferred candidate's name. These ballots did not call out for interpretation. 516 00:26:38,071 --> 00:26:41,071 Speaker 1: And then there were the under votes. These turned out 517 00:26:41,110 --> 00:26:43,751 Speaker 1: to be devilishly tricky for the canvassing Board to evaluate. 518 00:26:44,191 --> 00:26:47,711 Speaker 20: These three people, Carol Roberts, Teresa Lapoor and Judge Charles 519 00:26:47,751 --> 00:26:50,870 Speaker 20: Burton now have to go through four thousand or so 520 00:26:50,991 --> 00:26:56,430 Speaker 20: ballots and assess for the ones in which it was 521 00:26:56,511 --> 00:27:00,110 Speaker 20: not clear whether or not the person voted for Bush 522 00:27:00,191 --> 00:27:04,630 Speaker 20: or Gore, whether that person meant to vote for Bush 523 00:27:04,711 --> 00:27:07,830 Speaker 20: or Gore, but because it was a punch card, it 524 00:27:07,911 --> 00:27:13,110 Speaker 20: didn't necessarily register. And this is where Chad comes into 525 00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:14,630 Speaker 20: the scene. 526 00:27:14,991 --> 00:27:17,590 Speaker 1: Remember earlier when I said Catherine Harris was the closest 527 00:27:17,590 --> 00:27:19,190 Speaker 1: thing to a household name to come out of the 528 00:27:19,191 --> 00:27:23,071 Speaker 1: Florida recount, I take that back. Chad definitely takes the cake. 529 00:27:23,271 --> 00:27:27,231 Speaker 19: Chad's the munchkin of the electoral donut, as it were. 530 00:27:27,551 --> 00:27:30,150 Speaker 16: There's been a lot of discussion about the hanging chad 531 00:27:30,191 --> 00:27:31,231 Speaker 16: and the dimple chad. 532 00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:32,431 Speaker 11: Right now, the name. 533 00:27:32,271 --> 00:27:35,710 Speaker 15: Of the next president hangs on those tiny chads and 534 00:27:35,751 --> 00:27:38,470 Speaker 15: the people trying to the vine. 535 00:27:38,711 --> 00:27:40,951 Speaker 1: Chad refers to the tiny pieces of paper they get 536 00:27:40,951 --> 00:27:42,751 Speaker 1: poked out of a ballot when a voter uses a 537 00:27:42,791 --> 00:27:46,231 Speaker 1: punch card machine successfully. When a voter uses a punch 538 00:27:46,231 --> 00:27:49,431 Speaker 1: card machine unsuccessfully, either because they didn't press hard enough 539 00:27:49,431 --> 00:27:52,431 Speaker 1: through the ballot with their stylus or because the machine malfunctioned, 540 00:27:52,951 --> 00:27:55,511 Speaker 1: the chad can stay attached to the ballot, resulting in 541 00:27:55,511 --> 00:27:59,190 Speaker 1: an undervote. And yes, as Jake Tapper notes in his book, 542 00:27:59,471 --> 00:28:01,351 Speaker 1: the plural of chad is chad. 543 00:28:01,671 --> 00:28:04,590 Speaker 20: And then there are different kinds of chad. There is 544 00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:08,870 Speaker 20: a hanging chad that's attached to the ballot, hanging on 545 00:28:09,071 --> 00:28:12,551 Speaker 20: just by one corner there's a swinging door chad that's 546 00:28:12,590 --> 00:28:17,110 Speaker 20: hanging on by two of the corners. There's a pregnant chad, 547 00:28:17,150 --> 00:28:19,751 Speaker 20: there's a bulge, and there's a dimpled chadge where there's 548 00:28:19,791 --> 00:28:20,511 Speaker 20: like a little poke. 549 00:28:21,671 --> 00:28:24,271 Speaker 1: The question facing the Canvassing Board in Palm Beach County 550 00:28:24,311 --> 00:28:27,271 Speaker 1: came down to this, did a chad need to be 551 00:28:27,311 --> 00:28:29,830 Speaker 1: partially detached to a ballot order to count as a vote, 552 00:28:30,511 --> 00:28:33,430 Speaker 1: or was it enough for it to be indented, dimpled, or, 553 00:28:33,471 --> 00:28:37,711 Speaker 1: in the unofficial parlance, pregnant. The Palm Beach County Canvassing 554 00:28:37,751 --> 00:28:41,311 Speaker 1: Board started out by applying a relatively strict standard, one 555 00:28:41,351 --> 00:28:43,950 Speaker 1: based on a precedent set in nineteen ninety, back when 556 00:28:44,031 --> 00:28:47,591 Speaker 1: Jackie Winchester was the Supervisor of Elections. According to that 557 00:28:47,711 --> 00:28:51,151 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety standard, a mere indentation was not evidence of 558 00:28:51,191 --> 00:28:54,631 Speaker 1: voter intent, so a ballot with a dimpled or pregnant 559 00:28:54,671 --> 00:28:57,311 Speaker 1: chad could not be considered a valid vote. 560 00:28:57,591 --> 00:28:59,711 Speaker 3: The first being of the nineteen ninety standard I tend 561 00:28:59,711 --> 00:29:00,190 Speaker 3: to agree with. 562 00:29:00,391 --> 00:29:01,391 Speaker 5: Because it is. 563 00:29:01,551 --> 00:29:04,511 Speaker 1: A few hours into the count Judge Burton noticed that 564 00:29:04,551 --> 00:29:08,111 Speaker 1: without really meaning to, the Canvassing Board had gradually adopted 565 00:29:08,151 --> 00:29:10,470 Speaker 1: a more lenient standard than the one that's started with. 566 00:29:11,431 --> 00:29:13,471 Speaker 1: The thinking seemed to be that a chad doesn't just 567 00:29:13,591 --> 00:29:17,151 Speaker 1: dimple itself. If it showed visible signs of struggle, it 568 00:29:17,191 --> 00:29:21,511 Speaker 1: probably meant someone had tried to vote. The application of 569 00:29:21,551 --> 00:29:25,071 Speaker 1: this forgiving and according to the Republicans highly subjective standard 570 00:29:25,351 --> 00:29:26,911 Speaker 1: was advantageous to Al Gore. 571 00:29:27,591 --> 00:29:33,231 Speaker 20: As they're doing this one percent hand recount using this 572 00:29:33,951 --> 00:29:39,151 Speaker 20: very generous standard, more and more Gore votes are being found, 573 00:29:39,511 --> 00:29:42,911 Speaker 20: and the news in Goreland is good. 574 00:29:43,871 --> 00:29:47,311 Speaker 1: Before long, Gore had picked up fifty new votes. It 575 00:29:47,391 --> 00:29:49,631 Speaker 1: seemed possible that at this rate he could make up 576 00:29:49,671 --> 00:29:52,591 Speaker 1: the margin separating him from Bush by the time Lapour, Roberts, 577 00:29:52,631 --> 00:29:55,271 Speaker 1: and Burton were done with the one percent test, never 578 00:29:55,271 --> 00:29:58,551 Speaker 1: mind the rest of the county. But then something happened. 579 00:30:00,391 --> 00:30:03,431 Speaker 1: At around five pm, Judge Burton returned from a cigarette 580 00:30:03,471 --> 00:30:06,271 Speaker 1: break and interrupted the count. It's hard to hear him 581 00:30:06,271 --> 00:30:09,311 Speaker 1: on this recording, but essentially he wanted to start the 582 00:30:09,351 --> 00:30:13,111 Speaker 1: one percent over this time, sticking to the nineteen ninety standard. 583 00:30:13,511 --> 00:30:15,431 Speaker 11: Conservius, have you voted on this? 584 00:30:16,431 --> 00:30:16,911 Speaker 24: I want to do? 585 00:30:16,991 --> 00:30:22,431 Speaker 1: Was over objections from Gore's lawyers. Teresa Lapour and Carol 586 00:30:22,511 --> 00:30:26,071 Speaker 1: Roberts both agreed with Burton. And so the count began again. 587 00:30:26,191 --> 00:30:30,231 Speaker 1: I guess my bothers what prompted Judge Burton to stop 588 00:30:30,271 --> 00:30:33,191 Speaker 1: the one percent test and restarted under a stricter standard. 589 00:30:34,071 --> 00:30:36,950 Speaker 1: As it turned out, he had received some persuasive advice 590 00:30:37,071 --> 00:30:39,511 Speaker 1: from the Secretary of State's office. 591 00:30:43,191 --> 00:30:44,911 Speaker 21: I wasn't aware at the time that there were all 592 00:30:44,951 --> 00:30:48,031 Speaker 21: these eyes on me. I later learned afterward that people 593 00:30:48,071 --> 00:30:50,471 Speaker 21: were very suspicious about the fact that I had gone 594 00:30:50,511 --> 00:30:53,391 Speaker 21: into a conference room with Judge Burton. But I was 595 00:30:53,551 --> 00:30:56,151 Speaker 21: just simply following him into this room because he had 596 00:30:56,151 --> 00:30:56,671 Speaker 21: asked me to. 597 00:30:57,471 --> 00:31:00,631 Speaker 1: That's Kerry Carpenter. She's the lawyer from Catherin Harris's office 598 00:31:00,631 --> 00:31:02,751 Speaker 1: we heard from earlier, the one who said it didn't 599 00:31:02,751 --> 00:31:05,911 Speaker 1: seem right that Gore had only requested recounts and Democratic strongholds. 600 00:31:06,711 --> 00:31:08,751 Speaker 1: When it was announced that Palm Beach would be conducting 601 00:31:08,751 --> 00:31:12,111 Speaker 1: a one percent test, Carpenter was sent down to monitor 602 00:31:12,111 --> 00:31:15,230 Speaker 1: the situation and offer explanations of Florida election law to 603 00:31:15,271 --> 00:31:19,031 Speaker 1: the canvassing board members. That Carpenter says is exactly what 604 00:31:19,151 --> 00:31:21,551 Speaker 1: Judge Burton was after when he asked her to step 605 00:31:21,591 --> 00:31:22,551 Speaker 1: into that conference room. 606 00:31:22,831 --> 00:31:25,991 Speaker 21: His concern was that they had started out using the 607 00:31:26,071 --> 00:31:30,591 Speaker 21: nineteen ninety standards to do the sample recount, and over 608 00:31:30,671 --> 00:31:35,431 Speaker 21: time the standard was evolving into a different standard that 609 00:31:35,511 --> 00:31:39,471 Speaker 21: he believed was counting votes as votes that he didn't 610 00:31:39,471 --> 00:31:42,671 Speaker 21: think were really votes. And he wanted my advice on this. 611 00:31:42,751 --> 00:31:45,190 Speaker 21: What should he do? Basically he didn't know. 612 00:31:45,311 --> 00:31:46,071 Speaker 14: He didn't know what to do. 613 00:31:48,191 --> 00:31:50,871 Speaker 1: Carpenter advised Burton to go back to the stricter nineteen 614 00:31:50,951 --> 00:31:51,631 Speaker 1: ninety standard. 615 00:31:51,871 --> 00:31:54,751 Speaker 21: And I said, when this ends, and most likely we'll 616 00:31:54,751 --> 00:31:58,990 Speaker 21: be contested, will probably be a hearing in Tallahassee, and 617 00:31:59,031 --> 00:32:02,111 Speaker 21: you're likely to be a witness, and I don't think 618 00:32:02,111 --> 00:32:03,831 Speaker 21: you want to have to testify in front of the 619 00:32:03,951 --> 00:32:07,271 Speaker 21: entire nation that you counted things as votes that weren't 620 00:32:07,271 --> 00:32:10,671 Speaker 21: really votes. And he agreed with that not be good 621 00:32:10,671 --> 00:32:10,991 Speaker 21: for him. 622 00:32:11,391 --> 00:32:14,111 Speaker 1: When the count got going again, it became clear that 623 00:32:14,191 --> 00:32:15,951 Speaker 1: many of the votes that had gone to Gore under 624 00:32:15,951 --> 00:32:18,751 Speaker 1: the looser standard were now going to be thrown out 625 00:32:20,791 --> 00:32:23,230 Speaker 1: under the new standard. The number of gore votes was 626 00:32:23,271 --> 00:32:25,831 Speaker 1: still going up, but by much less. 627 00:32:26,391 --> 00:32:29,871 Speaker 21: It was enough that had they not gone back and 628 00:32:30,391 --> 00:32:34,791 Speaker 21: redid that pile using the nineteen ninety standards, there would 629 00:32:34,791 --> 00:32:38,751 Speaker 21: have been enough gore votes to have certified the election 630 00:32:39,111 --> 00:32:42,710 Speaker 21: for Gore and then Bush would have been challenging the election. 631 00:32:44,391 --> 00:32:45,231 Speaker 4: How do you feel about that? 632 00:32:46,671 --> 00:32:50,831 Speaker 21: I think we did the right thing regardless of the result. 633 00:32:51,311 --> 00:32:53,671 Speaker 21: My job was to focus on doing the right thing, 634 00:32:53,871 --> 00:32:56,711 Speaker 21: and I believed it then and I believe it today 635 00:32:56,711 --> 00:32:57,510 Speaker 21: that we did the right thing. 636 00:33:00,471 --> 00:33:02,551 Speaker 11: By good evening, everyone, I should say good morning. 637 00:33:03,231 --> 00:33:06,431 Speaker 1: Lapoor, Roberts, and Burton finished the one percent count just 638 00:33:06,471 --> 00:33:09,751 Speaker 1: before two am. They had discovered thirty three Gore votes 639 00:33:09,791 --> 00:33:12,591 Speaker 1: and fourteen Bush votes, for a net gain of nineteen 640 00:33:12,711 --> 00:33:15,831 Speaker 1: in Gore's favor. Now, the question was whether that was 641 00:33:15,951 --> 00:33:20,831 Speaker 1: enough to justify a county wide recount carry. Carpenter's position 642 00:33:21,031 --> 00:33:24,111 Speaker 1: was no. She told the canvassing board that according to 643 00:33:24,111 --> 00:33:27,391 Speaker 1: Florida law, the only circumstance in which a manual recount 644 00:33:27,391 --> 00:33:29,871 Speaker 1: is justified is if there's been a malfunction with the 645 00:33:29,951 --> 00:33:30,911 Speaker 1: vote counting machines. 646 00:33:30,991 --> 00:33:34,431 Speaker 25: When a manual recount where the entire county is done, 647 00:33:34,631 --> 00:33:37,791 Speaker 25: it is because the manual recount of the one percent 648 00:33:38,191 --> 00:33:41,710 Speaker 25: demonstrated some type of error in the equipment and the 649 00:33:41,711 --> 00:33:43,031 Speaker 25: machines that were used. 650 00:33:43,111 --> 00:33:45,791 Speaker 1: Carpenter said that since the one percent test hadn't revealed 651 00:33:45,791 --> 00:33:48,710 Speaker 1: any problems with the machines, there was no reason to 652 00:33:48,751 --> 00:33:49,791 Speaker 1: have a full recount. 653 00:33:50,111 --> 00:33:54,710 Speaker 25: Well, that would not be a vote tabulation error that 654 00:33:54,751 --> 00:33:57,751 Speaker 25: would affect the outcount. It would be a voter error 655 00:33:58,071 --> 00:33:59,391 Speaker 25: that may affect the outpower. 656 00:34:00,551 --> 00:34:03,311 Speaker 1: Judge Burton, who declined to be interviewed for this podcast, 657 00:34:03,911 --> 00:34:06,111 Speaker 1: moved to put off any decision about the county wide 658 00:34:06,111 --> 00:34:08,471 Speaker 1: recount until the Secretary of State's office could issue a 659 00:34:08,511 --> 00:34:11,631 Speaker 1: formal advisory opinion on what the canvassing Board should do. 660 00:34:11,991 --> 00:34:14,951 Speaker 11: Said, I would like to be more fully informed before 661 00:34:15,671 --> 00:34:19,431 Speaker 11: this board makes such a serious decision that can affect 662 00:34:19,471 --> 00:34:20,151 Speaker 11: this entire. 663 00:34:19,991 --> 00:34:23,991 Speaker 1: Concrete It's worth mentioning for the record that all three 664 00:34:24,031 --> 00:34:26,830 Speaker 1: members of the Palm Beach Canvassing Board were Democrats, though 665 00:34:26,911 --> 00:34:29,911 Speaker 1: Judge Burton had been appointed by Jeb Bush. Between the 666 00:34:29,951 --> 00:34:32,031 Speaker 1: three of them, Carol Roberts was considered to be the 667 00:34:32,071 --> 00:34:34,911 Speaker 1: most sympathetic toward Gore, and no one was surprised when 668 00:34:34,951 --> 00:34:37,231 Speaker 1: she came out strongly in favor of a manual recount. 669 00:34:37,471 --> 00:34:41,631 Speaker 10: And I decided that with nineteen vote out of one 670 00:34:41,671 --> 00:34:45,671 Speaker 10: percent and maybe there'd be nineteen hundred votes, was a 671 00:34:45,911 --> 00:34:46,830 Speaker 10: full recount. 672 00:34:47,230 --> 00:34:50,631 Speaker 1: Teresa Lapour sided with Carol Roberts. That made it two 673 00:34:50,631 --> 00:34:54,190 Speaker 1: against one. The recount in Palm Beach County was on. 674 00:34:56,871 --> 00:34:59,910 Speaker 10: Prime move. That this board conductor manual recount of all 675 00:34:59,951 --> 00:35:02,230 Speaker 10: the ballots for the presidential elections. 676 00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:06,991 Speaker 3: For the year two county, Palm Beach County, center of 677 00:35:07,111 --> 00:35:08,271 Speaker 3: the political universe. 678 00:35:08,391 --> 00:35:12,790 Speaker 15: Fifty teams working seven our shifts will start to handcount. 679 00:35:12,391 --> 00:35:14,911 Speaker 1: More than four hundred and sixty thousand ballots. 680 00:35:15,031 --> 00:35:18,711 Speaker 3: Who wins The White House could hang literally on what's 681 00:35:18,791 --> 00:35:19,671 Speaker 3: called a chat. 682 00:35:20,431 --> 00:35:23,591 Speaker 1: All that planning was still ahead. The vote to proceed 683 00:35:23,631 --> 00:35:25,471 Speaker 1: with the manual recount had happened in the middle of 684 00:35:25,511 --> 00:35:28,351 Speaker 1: the night, so for the moment, the members of the 685 00:35:28,391 --> 00:35:31,151 Speaker 1: Palm Beach County Canvassing Board headed out to get some sleep. 686 00:35:31,911 --> 00:35:33,751 Speaker 1: Carol Roberts drove home that night by. 687 00:35:33,591 --> 00:35:37,390 Speaker 10: Yourself, And when I got home, like one thirty or two, 688 00:35:37,951 --> 00:35:41,791 Speaker 10: my answering machine was lit up all over the place. 689 00:35:41,791 --> 00:35:44,270 Speaker 10: So I decided to see what kind of messages I got, 690 00:35:44,791 --> 00:35:48,791 Speaker 10: and I was horrified with all of the death threats. 691 00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:51,790 Speaker 1: Roberts's name and face had been on the news all day. 692 00:35:52,671 --> 00:35:54,631 Speaker 1: The country was transfixed by what was going on in 693 00:35:54,671 --> 00:35:57,031 Speaker 1: Palm Beach, and tensions were running high. 694 00:35:57,311 --> 00:35:59,511 Speaker 10: And there were messages that said you better watch out 695 00:35:59,511 --> 00:36:01,831 Speaker 10: how you cross the street. You might not make it across. 696 00:36:03,151 --> 00:36:06,551 Speaker 10: You better watch your back. I have a gun. Things 697 00:36:06,671 --> 00:36:09,951 Speaker 10: like that. And they came from all over the United States. 698 00:36:10,071 --> 00:36:11,390 Speaker 1: What were they I mean, what were they mad at 699 00:36:11,391 --> 00:36:11,831 Speaker 1: you about? 700 00:36:12,391 --> 00:36:14,391 Speaker 10: I'm not sure what they were mad at me about. 701 00:36:14,911 --> 00:36:16,431 Speaker 10: I just know that there were an awful lot of 702 00:36:16,471 --> 00:36:18,391 Speaker 10: people all of the United States that seemed to be 703 00:36:18,511 --> 00:36:20,991 Speaker 10: very displeased that we were going to recount. 704 00:36:24,631 --> 00:36:33,631 Speaker 1: We'll be right back that weekend. As Teresa Lapour, Carol Roberts, 705 00:36:33,631 --> 00:36:35,911 Speaker 1: and Charles Burton braced themselves for the start of the 706 00:36:35,951 --> 00:36:40,031 Speaker 1: full recount, Katherine Harris and her team looked to November fourteenth, 707 00:36:40,431 --> 00:36:42,751 Speaker 1: the deadline that Harris had set for the canvassing boards 708 00:36:42,750 --> 00:36:44,431 Speaker 1: to submit their final vote totals. 709 00:36:44,871 --> 00:36:49,911 Speaker 4: The overall idea that fundamental framework, strategic framework was to 710 00:36:50,871 --> 00:36:55,671 Speaker 4: hold the line on the dates and slow walk the county. 711 00:36:55,710 --> 00:36:59,151 Speaker 1: This is Max Dapanovitch. He's a Republican lobbyist who was 712 00:36:59,190 --> 00:37:02,071 Speaker 1: recruited by a Bush campaign official to advise Catherine Harris 713 00:37:02,111 --> 00:37:02,831 Speaker 1: during the recount. 714 00:37:03,230 --> 00:37:07,111 Speaker 4: I was very partisan and known for it. There was 715 00:37:07,151 --> 00:37:10,790 Speaker 4: no doubt about who I was, how I felt, or 716 00:37:11,431 --> 00:37:15,431 Speaker 4: why I was summoned as Mary Madaline once said, I 717 00:37:15,471 --> 00:37:19,111 Speaker 4: am a bush Leech at bush Lett l I E g. E. 718 00:37:19,391 --> 00:37:21,071 Speaker 4: Bush Leech got a vassal. 719 00:37:22,671 --> 00:37:25,391 Speaker 1: Stepanovitch's role in the Secretary of State's Office during the 720 00:37:25,391 --> 00:37:28,591 Speaker 1: recount is a matter of some dispute. He says he 721 00:37:28,631 --> 00:37:30,750 Speaker 1: was there to work behind the scenes and make sure 722 00:37:30,791 --> 00:37:33,151 Speaker 1: that Katherin Harris brought the election in for a landing. 723 00:37:33,431 --> 00:37:35,471 Speaker 4: I told her at the time, you know, a lot 724 00:37:35,511 --> 00:37:39,591 Speaker 4: of people run for public office and they believe that 725 00:37:39,710 --> 00:37:42,871 Speaker 4: when that moment comes, when that you know, John Kennedy 726 00:37:42,951 --> 00:37:48,511 Speaker 4: profile encourage moment arise, that they will rise to the occasion. 727 00:37:49,230 --> 00:37:50,071 Speaker 11: I told her. 728 00:37:51,511 --> 00:37:55,711 Speaker 4: That this is that moment. If you're going to do something, 729 00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:56,831 Speaker 4: do it today. 730 00:37:58,190 --> 00:38:00,911 Speaker 1: But Harris plays down Stapanovitch's contributions. 731 00:38:01,311 --> 00:38:04,510 Speaker 6: I don't want to discredit Mac, but that's he wants 732 00:38:04,551 --> 00:38:08,031 Speaker 6: to insert himself as important, and I understand, and I 733 00:38:08,151 --> 00:38:09,750 Speaker 6: value his I valued his friendship. 734 00:38:10,351 --> 00:38:13,511 Speaker 1: Whatever level of influence Tapanovitch had, it does sound like 735 00:38:13,551 --> 00:38:15,391 Speaker 1: he provided a kind of moral clarity to what the 736 00:38:15,431 --> 00:38:18,511 Speaker 1: Secretary of State's office was doing. As he saw it, 737 00:38:18,951 --> 00:38:20,910 Speaker 1: the Gore people were trying to cheat their way into 738 00:38:20,951 --> 00:38:23,151 Speaker 1: the White House, and they were doing it by dragging 739 00:38:23,230 --> 00:38:25,311 Speaker 1: things out until the vote came out in their favor. 740 00:38:26,111 --> 00:38:30,190 Speaker 4: I think their perspective was what this entire exercise was 741 00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:36,391 Speaker 4: about was divining in some fashion the will of the 742 00:38:36,431 --> 00:38:41,991 Speaker 4: electorate and taking as much time as it was necessary 743 00:38:42,551 --> 00:38:47,270 Speaker 4: to do so. We thought maybe a good idea, just 744 00:38:47,311 --> 00:38:47,951 Speaker 4: to comply. 745 00:38:47,791 --> 00:38:48,230 Speaker 7: With the law. 746 00:38:49,031 --> 00:38:53,551 Speaker 1: The thing is, election law in Florida was not totally clear. Yes, 747 00:38:53,591 --> 00:38:55,270 Speaker 1: there was a statute on the books that said the 748 00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:58,631 Speaker 1: Secretary of State's office shall ignore any vote totals that 749 00:38:58,671 --> 00:39:01,710 Speaker 1: come in more than seven days after the election. But 750 00:39:02,151 --> 00:39:04,951 Speaker 1: there was another statute, a more recent one, that seemed 751 00:39:04,951 --> 00:39:07,911 Speaker 1: to conflict with the first one. This law said that 752 00:39:07,951 --> 00:39:10,871 Speaker 1: the Secretary of State may ignore laid vote totals, but 753 00:39:10,911 --> 00:39:12,230 Speaker 1: that she didn't have to. 754 00:39:12,270 --> 00:39:15,190 Speaker 2: The Republicans who are trying to stop the recount cite 755 00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:18,270 Speaker 2: one statute. The Democrats relied on the very next statute, 756 00:39:18,511 --> 00:39:22,151 Speaker 2: shall or may, little words that could make a big difference. 757 00:39:22,591 --> 00:39:24,631 Speaker 1: Like so many disputes that flared up during the two 758 00:39:24,671 --> 00:39:27,710 Speaker 1: thousand recount, this one was decided in a court room. 759 00:39:28,671 --> 00:39:31,911 Speaker 1: After hearing arguments from both sides, a circuit court judge 760 00:39:31,991 --> 00:39:36,231 Speaker 1: ruled that may trumped shall, meaning Catherine Harris could reject 761 00:39:36,311 --> 00:39:39,270 Speaker 1: laid vote totals that she wasn't required to by law. 762 00:39:40,031 --> 00:39:42,591 Speaker 1: The judge also ruled that Harris could not refuse to 763 00:39:42,631 --> 00:39:46,031 Speaker 1: grant extensions arbitrarily, she had to have real reasons for 764 00:39:46,111 --> 00:39:50,230 Speaker 1: doing so. After conferring with her staff and Max Dpanovich, 765 00:39:50,831 --> 00:39:53,711 Speaker 1: Harris addressed the ruling by asking the county canvassing boards 766 00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:58,071 Speaker 1: to explain why they couldn't make the November fourteenth deadline. 767 00:39:58,230 --> 00:40:01,111 Speaker 1: The next day, the secretary of State's office received memos 768 00:40:01,111 --> 00:40:04,551 Speaker 1: from Palm Beach, Miami Dade, and Broward in which they 769 00:40:04,551 --> 00:40:07,990 Speaker 1: cited legal confusion and logistical issues as reasons for needing 770 00:40:08,031 --> 00:40:12,710 Speaker 1: more time. After reviewing memos, Harris swiftly concluded that extensions 771 00:40:12,750 --> 00:40:15,711 Speaker 1: were not warranted. She would be sticking to her original position. 772 00:40:16,471 --> 00:40:20,151 Speaker 16: Florida's Secretary of State, Catherine Harris has announced that she 773 00:40:20,391 --> 00:40:24,750 Speaker 16: is rejecting any further efforts to recount ballots from the 774 00:40:24,791 --> 00:40:26,111 Speaker 16: election by hand. 775 00:40:26,311 --> 00:40:29,231 Speaker 3: The Secretary of State said that she will not consider 776 00:40:29,391 --> 00:40:32,551 Speaker 3: any extension of the votes the vote she has now influenced. 777 00:40:32,551 --> 00:40:34,831 Speaker 1: In a press conference, Harris announced that she would be 778 00:40:34,871 --> 00:40:38,271 Speaker 1: certifying the election on the following Saturday, November eighteenth, Once 779 00:40:38,311 --> 00:40:40,710 Speaker 1: all overseas absentee ballots have been received. 780 00:40:40,831 --> 00:40:45,551 Speaker 9: The reasons given in their requests are insufficient to warrant 781 00:40:45,631 --> 00:40:51,230 Speaker 9: waiver of the unambiguous filing deadline imposed by the Florida Legislature. 782 00:40:51,471 --> 00:40:56,351 Speaker 2: The Gore team characterizing the Secretary's approach as kaf guys. 783 00:40:56,111 --> 00:40:59,230 Speaker 19: We are very sorry that the Secretary of State has 784 00:40:59,311 --> 00:41:02,631 Speaker 19: taken such a rash and a precipitous action. 785 00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:06,671 Speaker 1: By this point, only Belusia County had finished their manual recount. 786 00:41:07,230 --> 00:41:10,270 Speaker 1: The other counties were taking longer, and now it's like 787 00:41:10,311 --> 00:41:12,991 Speaker 1: their efforts were going to come to nothing. But the 788 00:41:13,031 --> 00:41:15,950 Speaker 1: Palm Beach Canvassing Board was not convinced that Harris's word 789 00:41:16,031 --> 00:41:19,391 Speaker 1: was final, so they filed an emergency petition with the 790 00:41:19,391 --> 00:41:22,310 Speaker 1: Florida Supreme Court asking whether they could still proceed with 791 00:41:22,351 --> 00:41:23,311 Speaker 1: their manual recount. 792 00:41:23,591 --> 00:41:26,671 Speaker 26: They are still hoping that the State Supreme Court will 793 00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:31,111 Speaker 26: give them guidance about this particular county's recount. That is 794 00:41:31,151 --> 00:41:33,911 Speaker 26: why there is a sense of some limbo here in 795 00:41:33,991 --> 00:41:34,911 Speaker 26: Palm Beach County. 796 00:41:34,951 --> 00:41:37,111 Speaker 2: All of this puts the focus on the Florida State 797 00:41:37,151 --> 00:41:38,031 Speaker 2: Supreme Court. 798 00:41:38,311 --> 00:41:40,910 Speaker 1: The Florida Supreme Court issued a response the next day, 799 00:41:41,831 --> 00:41:44,631 Speaker 1: though the seven justices weren't prepared to say whether Harris 800 00:41:44,671 --> 00:41:47,511 Speaker 1: had to accept late counts. It was their position that 801 00:41:47,591 --> 00:41:50,631 Speaker 1: in the interim palm Beach was allowed to keep counting. 802 00:41:51,710 --> 00:41:54,631 Speaker 1: With that, the Florida Supreme Court opened a new chapter 803 00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:59,111 Speaker 1: in the recount saga. Once again, an ostensibly apolitical Florida 804 00:41:59,111 --> 00:42:03,750 Speaker 1: institution was faced with an impossible mission to remain nonpartisan 805 00:42:03,791 --> 00:42:12,511 Speaker 1: while making decisions that had unavoidably political ramifications. Before we continue, 806 00:42:12,671 --> 00:42:14,631 Speaker 1: I want to acknowledge that it's been quite a while 807 00:42:14,671 --> 00:42:17,350 Speaker 1: since we heard anything about the butterfly ballot. You might 808 00:42:17,391 --> 00:42:19,830 Speaker 1: be wondering did we just forget about that storyline or 809 00:42:19,831 --> 00:42:23,271 Speaker 1: what That would be a fair question, except it wasn't 810 00:42:23,311 --> 00:42:26,190 Speaker 1: really our decision to drop the butterfly ballot. It was 811 00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:29,631 Speaker 1: the Gore campaigns. Because for all the attention the butterfly 812 00:42:29,671 --> 00:42:32,471 Speaker 1: ballot got in the days after the election, it turned 813 00:42:32,511 --> 00:42:35,591 Speaker 1: out not to be a viable issue for Gore. It 814 00:42:35,671 --> 00:42:38,591 Speaker 1: was just a mistake that no one could plausibly fix. 815 00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:42,471 Speaker 24: We determined that the butterfly ballot was a very difficult 816 00:42:42,591 --> 00:42:46,751 Speaker 24: issue because the remedy is hard to figure. 817 00:42:47,230 --> 00:42:50,310 Speaker 1: That's Benedict Cuney. He's a Florida lawyer who worked for 818 00:42:50,351 --> 00:42:52,871 Speaker 1: Gore during the recount and led the team in Palm Beach. 819 00:42:53,871 --> 00:42:56,270 Speaker 1: Cuney told me that even though the butterfly ballot didn't 820 00:42:56,311 --> 00:42:58,830 Speaker 1: end up being a winning legal issue for Gore, it 821 00:42:58,871 --> 00:43:01,151 Speaker 1: was incredibly important as a galvanizing symbol. 822 00:43:01,351 --> 00:43:04,751 Speaker 24: The butterfly ballot was one way of signifying that something 823 00:43:04,831 --> 00:43:08,151 Speaker 24: had gone horribly wrong with this election, and I think 824 00:43:08,190 --> 00:43:13,111 Speaker 24: that did Bowy people. It didn't have the same kind 825 00:43:13,111 --> 00:43:19,151 Speaker 24: of legal vitality that evaluating under votes or over votes, 826 00:43:19,551 --> 00:43:22,790 Speaker 24: but nonetheless it had a lot of oomph and pizazz. 827 00:43:23,671 --> 00:43:26,791 Speaker 1: In addition to being visual and concrete, the butterfly ballot 828 00:43:26,791 --> 00:43:29,911 Speaker 1: made the Democrats feel like their fight was justified. It 829 00:43:29,991 --> 00:43:31,830 Speaker 1: was the flip side of the Bush team's belief that 830 00:43:31,871 --> 00:43:34,671 Speaker 1: Gore was trying to cheat to win. Here again is 831 00:43:34,671 --> 00:43:37,991 Speaker 1: Max Tapanovitch, the Republican lobbyist who advised Catherine Harris during 832 00:43:37,991 --> 00:43:38,551 Speaker 1: the recount. 833 00:43:39,431 --> 00:43:43,031 Speaker 4: You know, the whole hanging chad thing, the determination of intent. 834 00:43:43,871 --> 00:43:47,631 Speaker 4: The longer that torture went on, the more likely it 835 00:43:47,831 --> 00:43:51,831 Speaker 4: was that they would manufacture votes. And the more pressure built, 836 00:43:52,791 --> 00:43:54,471 Speaker 4: either whether it was the media or whether it was 837 00:43:54,471 --> 00:43:57,471 Speaker 4: in the courts or otherwise, the more likely that the 838 00:43:57,591 --> 00:44:01,111 Speaker 4: dam would give way, and you would say, well, they're 839 00:44:01,151 --> 00:44:04,190 Speaker 4: registered in a heavy Democrat precinct, Well just assume their 840 00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:06,511 Speaker 4: Democrats and would have voted for out Gore. Let's count 841 00:44:06,511 --> 00:44:09,671 Speaker 4: that one for him. So you know, frequently people who 842 00:44:09,710 --> 00:44:13,951 Speaker 4: won't to give me a hard time, we'll talk about 843 00:44:14,031 --> 00:44:17,391 Speaker 4: us having stolen the election. And it is my belief 844 00:44:17,591 --> 00:44:20,751 Speaker 4: and I believe it sincerely, that we prevented the election 845 00:44:20,831 --> 00:44:21,631 Speaker 4: from being stolen. 846 00:44:22,351 --> 00:44:25,031 Speaker 1: Stepanovitch, by the way, agrees that most of the Buchanan 847 00:44:25,071 --> 00:44:27,111 Speaker 1: votes in Palm Beach were supposed to go to Gore. 848 00:44:27,831 --> 00:44:29,031 Speaker 1: He just doesn't think it matters. 849 00:44:30,431 --> 00:44:31,431 Speaker 24: I believe. 850 00:44:32,791 --> 00:44:38,431 Speaker 4: That on that day, Election Day two thousand, that a 851 00:44:38,551 --> 00:44:42,310 Speaker 4: majority of the people who went to the polls and 852 00:44:42,391 --> 00:44:48,991 Speaker 4: intended to vote intended to vote for Al Gore. But 853 00:44:49,111 --> 00:44:53,271 Speaker 4: we can't know that because they failed to vote properly. 854 00:44:56,951 --> 00:44:59,710 Speaker 16: We're now going to take you to Palm Beach, Florida. 855 00:44:59,791 --> 00:45:03,310 Speaker 16: In Palm Beach tonight, the voter recount is just beginning, 856 00:45:03,351 --> 00:45:05,511 Speaker 16: and we just thought we would listen in as they 857 00:45:05,551 --> 00:45:06,471 Speaker 16: begin their process. 858 00:45:08,151 --> 00:45:11,551 Speaker 1: Canvassing board in Palm Beach started it's manual recount on Thursday, 859 00:45:11,551 --> 00:45:14,831 Speaker 1: November sixteenth. It was going to be a much larger 860 00:45:14,911 --> 00:45:18,271 Speaker 1: undertaking than the one percent test. To accommodate the extra 861 00:45:18,311 --> 00:45:21,151 Speaker 1: volunteers and partisan observers that were needed to staff the effort, 862 00:45:21,351 --> 00:45:23,871 Speaker 1: the recount was housed in the Emergency Operations Center in 863 00:45:23,911 --> 00:45:26,831 Speaker 1: West Palm Beach, a cavernous space typically used as a 864 00:45:26,831 --> 00:45:32,230 Speaker 1: command center for government operations during hurricanes. Outside the Emergency 865 00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:36,230 Speaker 1: Operations Center, about four hundred Republican protesters gathered to voice 866 00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:38,911 Speaker 1: their opposition to the recount. They held signs shouting out 867 00:45:38,951 --> 00:45:47,790 Speaker 1: Katherine Harris, go cat go, and Harris we trust. Inside, 868 00:45:48,031 --> 00:45:50,870 Speaker 1: volunteers and county employees took their seats and got ready 869 00:45:50,911 --> 00:45:53,990 Speaker 1: to count. Over the course of the day, they would 870 00:45:53,991 --> 00:45:56,710 Speaker 1: be joined by a team of lawyers representing Gore and Bush, 871 00:45:57,071 --> 00:46:00,111 Speaker 1: a group that included John Bolton, the future National security 872 00:46:00,111 --> 00:46:04,071 Speaker 1: advisor to Donald Trump. Among the local volunteers who showed 873 00:46:04,151 --> 00:46:07,111 Speaker 1: up to help count ballots was John Winchester, the son 874 00:46:07,230 --> 00:46:09,311 Speaker 1: of former election supervisor Jackie Winchester. 875 00:46:10,111 --> 00:46:12,071 Speaker 14: It was a crazy time. We had to get in 876 00:46:12,111 --> 00:46:14,710 Speaker 14: line early in the morning, and there were all these 877 00:46:14,750 --> 00:46:17,031 Speaker 14: protesters out there. A lot of people in the election's 878 00:46:17,071 --> 00:46:20,591 Speaker 14: office were just kind of, you know, we're nervous about it. 879 00:46:21,471 --> 00:46:25,751 Speaker 1: John Winchester was no stranger to election administration. In addition 880 00:46:25,791 --> 00:46:27,830 Speaker 1: to hanging around the election's office when his mom ran 881 00:46:27,871 --> 00:46:30,470 Speaker 1: the show there, he also created the software that Palm 882 00:46:30,551 --> 00:46:33,951 Speaker 1: Beach County used to register voters. Just like with the 883 00:46:33,951 --> 00:46:36,591 Speaker 1: one percent count, most of the ballots that were being 884 00:46:36,631 --> 00:46:39,270 Speaker 1: recounted were no brainers. You could tell right away who 885 00:46:39,311 --> 00:46:42,631 Speaker 1: they were four. But not long after the counting started, 886 00:46:43,111 --> 00:46:46,111 Speaker 1: Winchester noticed that the Republican observers standing over his shoulder 887 00:46:46,190 --> 00:46:47,991 Speaker 1: were doing something strange. 888 00:46:48,151 --> 00:46:51,351 Speaker 14: They were objecting to every ballot, Every ballot that wasn't 889 00:46:51,710 --> 00:46:54,871 Speaker 14: punched out for Bush they were objecting to. I remember 890 00:46:54,871 --> 00:46:58,111 Speaker 14: sitting at the table looking at a ballot, going, really, really, 891 00:46:58,190 --> 00:47:01,151 Speaker 14: what are you objecting to? This ballot is clearly a 892 00:47:01,270 --> 00:47:03,790 Speaker 14: vote for one candidate. There's one hole the next clear 893 00:47:03,831 --> 00:47:08,430 Speaker 14: But I object they would so they were totally They 894 00:47:08,431 --> 00:47:09,831 Speaker 14: were objecting without reason. 895 00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:14,151 Speaker 7: These aren't pound and hanging and swinging on all pronounce 896 00:47:14,190 --> 00:47:14,750 Speaker 7: but there we. 897 00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:16,591 Speaker 10: Don't have time to argue. 898 00:47:17,871 --> 00:47:21,230 Speaker 1: According to recount procedure, every ballot that got objected to 899 00:47:21,471 --> 00:47:23,631 Speaker 1: was passed up to the three members of the canvassing board, 900 00:47:23,871 --> 00:47:26,031 Speaker 1: who would look over it together and decide whether it 901 00:47:26,111 --> 00:47:29,471 Speaker 1: bore any clear sign of voter intent. The problem was 902 00:47:29,511 --> 00:47:31,671 Speaker 1: that the board was getting so many ballots passed up 903 00:47:31,710 --> 00:47:33,310 Speaker 1: to them they couldn't get through them all. 904 00:47:34,791 --> 00:47:38,230 Speaker 11: All right, your objections loaded, I say that, just it's 905 00:47:38,351 --> 00:47:39,750 Speaker 11: markedly different than the other ones. 906 00:47:40,511 --> 00:47:44,191 Speaker 1: Whatever. When Jackie Winchester's son told her what was happening 907 00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:46,991 Speaker 1: at the emergency center, she could barely contain her anger. 908 00:47:47,591 --> 00:47:51,710 Speaker 7: The Republican observers very quickly figured out that if they 909 00:47:52,391 --> 00:47:55,871 Speaker 7: objected to ballots, even though there was obviously no reason 910 00:47:56,031 --> 00:47:59,671 Speaker 7: to object, that they could slow down the whole thing. 911 00:47:59,791 --> 00:48:03,750 Speaker 7: And it were certainly worked because the canvassing Board was 912 00:48:03,871 --> 00:48:06,350 Speaker 7: getting all of these ballots if they had to look 913 00:48:06,391 --> 00:48:08,591 Speaker 7: at when there was really no reason for them to 914 00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:09,350 Speaker 7: look at them. 915 00:48:10,111 --> 00:48:12,710 Speaker 1: Jackie Winchester felt that Teresa Lapour had made a big 916 00:48:12,831 --> 00:48:17,071 Speaker 1: mistake in having every single ballot counted individually. What Lapour 917 00:48:17,151 --> 00:48:20,151 Speaker 1: should have done, Winchester thought, was separate out the ballots 918 00:48:20,190 --> 00:48:24,071 Speaker 1: with undervotes, and how the canvassing board prioritize those. The 919 00:48:24,190 --> 00:48:28,031 Speaker 1: no brainers, meanwhile, could be assessed in bulk, thereby minimizing 920 00:48:28,071 --> 00:48:30,871 Speaker 1: the opportunity for partisan observers to slow down the process. 921 00:48:31,951 --> 00:48:34,111 Speaker 1: That was how Winchester had done recounts in the past 922 00:48:34,391 --> 00:48:37,230 Speaker 1: when she was election supervisor, and it had made for 923 00:48:37,311 --> 00:48:38,751 Speaker 1: a much more efficient process. 924 00:48:39,351 --> 00:48:42,831 Speaker 7: I was very upset because I felt that she was 925 00:48:42,991 --> 00:48:46,911 Speaker 7: messing up the recount. I knew that she was aware 926 00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:50,151 Speaker 7: of the instructions for the way we normally did it, 927 00:48:50,671 --> 00:48:54,351 Speaker 7: and that the way she was ignoring that was just chaos. 928 00:48:55,230 --> 00:48:58,951 Speaker 1: So I felt that it was wrong. Winchester tried to 929 00:48:58,991 --> 00:49:01,071 Speaker 1: get word to the canvassing board and to La Poor 930 00:49:01,111 --> 00:49:04,791 Speaker 1: in particular, but she couldn't get through. In her frustration, 931 00:49:05,311 --> 00:49:08,510 Speaker 1: Winchester later decided to go public with her complaints, telling 932 00:49:08,591 --> 00:49:12,190 Speaker 1: reporters that her long serving Ormer assistant had failed her constituents. 933 00:49:12,911 --> 00:49:16,230 Speaker 1: Winchester even attacked Lapour for the butterfly ballot, which she 934 00:49:16,270 --> 00:49:18,671 Speaker 1: had previously regarded as an innocent lapse in judgment. 935 00:49:19,391 --> 00:49:22,071 Speaker 7: Had we not had the butterfly ballot, had people not 936 00:49:22,230 --> 00:49:25,071 Speaker 7: voted for your count and instead of Gore, I think 937 00:49:25,631 --> 00:49:27,710 Speaker 7: there probably would not even have been a recount in 938 00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:30,111 Speaker 7: Palm Beach County. The election probably would have been over 939 00:49:30,551 --> 00:49:36,310 Speaker 7: an election night. It is amazing if the consequences of 940 00:49:36,431 --> 00:49:40,710 Speaker 7: what seems at first like a fairly small mistake, did. 941 00:49:40,631 --> 00:49:45,391 Speaker 1: You ever talk to Teresa about that? No, did you 942 00:49:45,431 --> 00:49:46,511 Speaker 1: ever talk to again after all this? 943 00:49:46,951 --> 00:49:46,991 Speaker 12: No? 944 00:49:47,151 --> 00:49:47,551 Speaker 11: I did not. 945 00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:50,430 Speaker 7: I was pretty disgusted, I have to say. 946 00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:55,671 Speaker 1: On the second day of the Palm Beach recount, Friday, 947 00:49:55,671 --> 00:50:00,270 Speaker 1: November seventeenth, there was an unexpected development out of Callahassee. 948 00:50:00,071 --> 00:50:02,230 Speaker 17: Another day of hairpin turns in the court. 949 00:50:02,431 --> 00:50:05,151 Speaker 2: Like a political Lazarus, Al Gore came back from the 950 00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:08,151 Speaker 2: brink today the Supreme Court of Florida, breathing new life 951 00:50:08,190 --> 00:50:10,390 Speaker 2: into his crusade to count every vote. 952 00:50:10,750 --> 00:50:13,751 Speaker 1: The Florida Supreme Court had handed down an injunction forbidding 953 00:50:13,831 --> 00:50:16,710 Speaker 1: Catherine Harris from certifying the election results until the Court 954 00:50:16,750 --> 00:50:17,631 Speaker 1: could review the case. 955 00:50:18,031 --> 00:50:20,710 Speaker 15: The Court on its own motion and joins the respondent 956 00:50:21,311 --> 00:50:25,351 Speaker 15: Secretary of State from certifying the results of the November seventh, 957 00:50:25,431 --> 00:50:29,311 Speaker 15: two thousand presidential election until further order of this Court. 958 00:50:29,230 --> 00:50:31,591 Speaker 17: Well the full range of emotions in the Bush campaign, 959 00:50:31,671 --> 00:50:33,791 Speaker 17: putting any plans for celebration on hold. 960 00:50:34,151 --> 00:50:37,671 Speaker 1: The injunction was a major victory for Team Gore. Finally, 961 00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:40,111 Speaker 1: the shot clock had been halted, and the possibility that 962 00:50:40,190 --> 00:50:42,190 Speaker 1: Gore could still make up enough votes before the election 963 00:50:42,270 --> 00:50:44,351 Speaker 1: results were certified was once again alive. 964 00:50:44,671 --> 00:50:47,951 Speaker 12: Today's court decisions have given Gore the most precious commodity 965 00:50:48,031 --> 00:50:49,791 Speaker 12: he could hope for time. 966 00:50:50,871 --> 00:50:53,751 Speaker 1: Oral arguments at the Florida Supreme Court were scheduled for Monday, 967 00:50:53,791 --> 00:50:57,151 Speaker 1: November twentieth, But first, the State of Florida had to 968 00:50:57,190 --> 00:51:00,751 Speaker 1: deal with something more important, an annual ritual that briefly 969 00:51:00,791 --> 00:51:02,591 Speaker 1: put the recount out of everyone's minds. 970 00:51:03,230 --> 00:51:05,190 Speaker 4: This contest is not for politicians. 971 00:51:05,471 --> 00:51:09,111 Speaker 17: Lawyers are hanging chads. Welcome to Florida versus Florida State. 972 00:51:10,951 --> 00:51:13,591 Speaker 1: That Saturday, tens of thousands of people from around the 973 00:51:13,631 --> 00:51:16,711 Speaker 1: state descended on Tallahassee to watch the Florida State Seminoles 974 00:51:16,750 --> 00:51:20,711 Speaker 1: play football against the Florida Gators. Even as the recount 975 00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:24,231 Speaker 1: saga crept towards its third week, politicians and local businessmen 976 00:51:24,351 --> 00:51:26,790 Speaker 1: crowded into luxury boxes to rub elbows with their fellow 977 00:51:26,871 --> 00:51:27,471 Speaker 1: power brokers. 978 00:51:27,991 --> 00:51:30,391 Speaker 17: Not a chilling northern of Florida. 979 00:51:30,511 --> 00:51:34,711 Speaker 19: Evening the Florida State Seminoles post their rivals from. 980 00:51:34,671 --> 00:51:37,111 Speaker 1: Days A number of key participants in the recount watched 981 00:51:37,151 --> 00:51:39,351 Speaker 1: the game from a private box belonging to the President 982 00:51:39,391 --> 00:51:43,270 Speaker 1: of FSU. Guests included two justices from the Florida Supreme Court. 983 00:51:43,750 --> 00:51:47,551 Speaker 1: The Bush team's top lawyer, Ben Ginsburg, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, 984 00:51:48,031 --> 00:51:51,470 Speaker 1: and Secretary of State Catherine Harris. If things had gone 985 00:51:51,471 --> 00:51:53,991 Speaker 1: according to plan, Harris would have been allowed to certify 986 00:51:54,031 --> 00:51:57,830 Speaker 1: the election for Bush earlier that day. Instead, she had 987 00:51:57,871 --> 00:51:59,671 Speaker 1: to wait for the Florida Supreme Court to weigh in. 988 00:52:00,911 --> 00:52:03,031 Speaker 1: I would have assumed this was a stressful weekend for Harris, 989 00:52:03,871 --> 00:52:05,631 Speaker 1: but when I asked her about it, she said, the 990 00:52:05,671 --> 00:52:08,310 Speaker 1: Florida Supreme Court ruling just felt like another step in 991 00:52:08,311 --> 00:52:08,991 Speaker 1: the legal process. 992 00:52:10,270 --> 00:52:13,111 Speaker 6: You know, that's what they ruled. They're entitled to that, 993 00:52:13,230 --> 00:52:16,551 Speaker 6: so we just follow the next step that the law required. 994 00:52:17,111 --> 00:52:19,270 Speaker 1: I should mention Harris gave me kind of a hard 995 00:52:19,311 --> 00:52:20,750 Speaker 1: time for the name of this podcast. 996 00:52:21,391 --> 00:52:25,871 Speaker 6: It wasn't a fiasco, it wasn't a constitutional crisis. It 997 00:52:25,951 --> 00:52:31,591 Speaker 6: was a close election, and what was fiasco esque was 998 00:52:31,710 --> 00:52:33,230 Speaker 6: the way the media handled it. 999 00:52:33,991 --> 00:52:37,031 Speaker 1: But other than that, she sounded surprisingly sanguine. 1000 00:52:36,951 --> 00:52:39,711 Speaker 6: Because I don't have one single solitary regret. 1001 00:52:39,871 --> 00:52:40,631 Speaker 24: I could do it over. 1002 00:52:41,111 --> 00:52:44,591 Speaker 6: Many people say, boy, if you could wave a wand 1003 00:52:44,991 --> 00:52:47,471 Speaker 6: and it never had to happen to you, would you 1004 00:52:47,551 --> 00:52:50,471 Speaker 6: do it. But I'm so grateful that I had a 1005 00:52:50,591 --> 00:52:56,350 Speaker 6: chance to be honorable in my actions, and so if 1006 00:52:56,391 --> 00:52:58,031 Speaker 6: someone could wave a match you wand take. 1007 00:52:57,911 --> 00:53:00,271 Speaker 1: It away, I wouldn't let them. Why are you grateful 1008 00:53:00,311 --> 00:53:00,471 Speaker 1: for it? 1009 00:53:00,951 --> 00:53:03,790 Speaker 6: I'm just grateful that I was, you know, in a 1010 00:53:03,871 --> 00:53:06,071 Speaker 6: spiritual sense, because I'm Christian. You know that maybe in 1011 00:53:06,111 --> 00:53:08,190 Speaker 6: all the earth thought I got chosen to handle that. 1012 00:53:08,951 --> 00:53:11,871 Speaker 6: I'm grateful. I'm grateful that I feel like I was 1013 00:53:12,071 --> 00:53:12,631 Speaker 6: found worthy. 1014 00:53:15,631 --> 00:53:17,871 Speaker 1: At the football game, Harris spoke to a group of 1015 00:53:17,911 --> 00:53:20,511 Speaker 1: boosters and a couple of reporters. You know what I 1016 00:53:20,631 --> 00:53:23,111 Speaker 1: dreamed of today, she told them. I dreamed that I 1017 00:53:23,151 --> 00:53:25,551 Speaker 1: would ride into this stadium on a horse, carrying the 1018 00:53:25,710 --> 00:53:28,151 Speaker 1: FSU flag in one hand and the certification in the other, 1019 00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:32,591 Speaker 1: while everyone around me cheered. As it happened. The game 1020 00:53:32,671 --> 00:53:35,111 Speaker 1: could not have played out more perfectly for the occasion. 1021 00:53:35,871 --> 00:53:38,471 Speaker 1: While the clock ran down, the two teams were separated 1022 00:53:38,511 --> 00:53:41,471 Speaker 1: by a single point and a potential game winning field goal, 1023 00:53:41,511 --> 00:53:43,710 Speaker 1: and the final play of regulation time had to be 1024 00:53:43,831 --> 00:53:45,631 Speaker 1: reviewed by the refs, and the. 1025 00:53:45,671 --> 00:53:49,751 Speaker 12: Two officials talked to each other. Crowd's going crazy. 1026 00:53:50,111 --> 00:53:52,151 Speaker 4: I mean the balls on the other side of walking. 1027 00:53:54,791 --> 00:53:58,031 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. Florida State actually won that game easily, 1028 00:53:58,311 --> 00:53:59,031 Speaker 1: thirty to seven. 1029 00:53:59,631 --> 00:54:01,351 Speaker 17: That is Florida's worst loss. 1030 00:54:01,871 --> 00:54:03,431 Speaker 1: It was a landslide, it. 1031 00:54:03,591 --> 00:54:07,631 Speaker 11: Was a round, and let's go quickly out of jack a. 1032 00:54:07,710 --> 00:54:11,991 Speaker 1: Roof outside the stadium. The game was only just approaching halftime, 1033 00:54:13,230 --> 00:54:16,071 Speaker 1: and though it wasn't exactly a tie, it really didn't 1034 00:54:16,071 --> 00:54:24,151 Speaker 1: feel like anyone was winning. On the next episode of Fiasco, 1035 00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:27,351 Speaker 1: how the confrontation in Florida went from a tangle of 1036 00:54:27,391 --> 00:54:29,870 Speaker 1: courtroom proceedings to an extra legal street fight. 1037 00:54:30,151 --> 00:54:31,391 Speaker 3: Why don't we do what democrats do? 1038 00:54:31,951 --> 00:54:33,750 Speaker 4: I said, Let's do some civil disobedience. 1039 00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:36,631 Speaker 3: Let's have a sit in, Let's create a ruckus. 1040 00:54:41,710 --> 00:54:45,031 Speaker 1: Fiasco is a production of Prolog Projects, and it's distributed 1041 00:54:45,071 --> 00:54:49,031 Speaker 1: by Pushkin Industries. The show is produced by Andrew Parsons, 1042 00:54:49,270 --> 00:54:54,111 Speaker 1: madelin kaplan Ula Culpa, and me Leon Nafock. Our script 1043 00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:58,071 Speaker 1: editor was Daniel Riley. Our editorial consultant was Camilla Hammer, 1044 00:54:58,591 --> 00:55:02,551 Speaker 1: and we received additional editorial support from Lisa Chase. Our 1045 00:55:02,631 --> 00:55:05,190 Speaker 1: music and score are by Nick Silvester of god Mode, 1046 00:55:05,591 --> 00:55:09,431 Speaker 1: with additional music from Alexis Quadrado. Our theme song is 1047 00:55:09,471 --> 00:55:12,991 Speaker 1: by Spatial Relations. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at 1048 00:55:13,071 --> 00:55:17,671 Speaker 1: Chips and y Audio, mixed by Rob Buyers, Michael Rayphiel 1049 00:55:17,791 --> 00:55:21,391 Speaker 1: and Johnny Vince Evans of Final Final V two Special 1050 00:55:21,471 --> 00:55:25,111 Speaker 1: Thanks to Luminary for a list of books, articles, and 1051 00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:28,190 Speaker 1: documentaries that we relied on in our research. Click the 1052 00:55:28,270 --> 00:55:31,751 Speaker 1: link in the show notes. Thanks to c SPAN, NBC 1053 00:55:31,991 --> 00:55:35,190 Speaker 1: News Archive, CNN, and Channel twenty in Palm Beach for 1054 00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:38,951 Speaker 1: the archival material you heard in today's show. Thanks for listening.