1 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: On this episode of news World, My guest today is 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: Cash Patel. He was an influential voice in the Trump administration, 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: advising President Trump on national security issues. He served as 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: the former chief of staff to Acting Secretary Defense Chris Miller, 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: and was responsible for leading the Secretary's mission at the department, 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: including overseeing his executive staff and providing counsel to the 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: Secretary on all matters concerning the department's operations. Previously, he 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: served as the Deputy Assistant to the President and Senior 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: Director for counter Terrorism at the National Security Council. In 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: that capacity, he oversaw the execution of several of President 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 1: Donald J. Trump's top priorities, including eliminating ISIS and Al 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: Kahia leadership such as Al Baghdatti and Cosim Malrimi, and 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: the safe return of numerous American hostages. Mister Potel also 14 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: served as Principal d to the Acting Director of National Intelligence, 15 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: where he oversaw the operations of all seventeen intelligence community 16 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: agencies and provided the President's daily brief. I want to 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: have him on today to discuss the national security system 18 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: and how he believes it needs to be reformed. I'm 19 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: really pleased to welcome my guest, Cash Patel. Thank you 20 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: for joining me on Newts World. Mister speaker, It's an 21 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: honor to be with you. I've been an admirer of 22 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: your career for a long time and a big fan 23 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: of the fight you have undertook for decades to help 24 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: lead our country in the right direction. So humbled an 25 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: honor to be on your program. So before we dive 26 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: into national security, I can't help but ask you your 27 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: new role as President Trump's new social media platform, Truth Social. 28 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: How did all that come about? Well, it's kind of 29 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: the best late plans, mister speaker. I'm not a tech guy. 30 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: I was never on social media yet during my time 31 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: in sixteen years in government really, and so when President 32 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: Trump decided to launch truth Social, and then he brought 33 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: over my former boss, Devin Noon has to be the 34 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: CEO of TMTG, the umbrella company, it's public now that 35 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: they offered me a position on the board because I 36 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: think they saw that we share the same ideals when 37 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: it comes to free speech and a platform for conversation 38 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: in America about not just politics but everything that's cancel 39 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: culture free. As much as I hate that terminology, you 40 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: know that people aren't going to come in from the 41 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: far left to far light or where have you, and 42 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: say we disagree with what you're saying or the candidates 43 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: you're supporting, and we're going to shut you down and 44 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: delete you. So that's how I got involved, and that 45 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: was sort of the starting point. And you know, truth 46 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: social has really roared to life of the last i'd 47 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: say forty five days. Millions and millions of now users 48 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: have more engagement than any other social media platform. And 49 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm on there surprisingly, I'm at cash Kash, I'm surprisingly 50 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: on there and engaging people to talk about national security, defense, 51 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: its law enforcement, and I guess all things. John Durham, 52 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: and how do you see the rise of this? I 53 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: know initially it had some teething problems, but I think 54 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: all of these very complicated systems initially have to sort 55 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: through a little bit like off Broadway practice for a play. 56 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: I think they still have to continue to evolve, don't 57 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: they too? Involve more platforms? Oh? Absolutely, you're right. And 58 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: you know, I remind folks out there that Twitter took 59 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: three years and three separate CEOs before they got to 60 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: more than half capacity. And you know, I think truth 61 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: Social is in its basically fourth or fifth month actually 62 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: being an online platform, there's more iterations to come. We're 63 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: going to onboard Android users in the next month. We're 64 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: also going to utilize the desktop feature so that folks 65 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: can join in from their computers at home and their laptops, 66 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: and once those features are all fully mobilized, that will 67 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: add millions and millions more. And I think we anticipate 68 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: about ten to twenty million users by the end of 69 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: the summer. And to put that in perspective, Twitter is 70 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: twenty five million human beings that are users on Twitter. 71 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: They have one hundred million bots. And what we're shooting 72 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: for on truth Social is the elimination of all bots 73 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: and just to have human beings actually engage the platform. 74 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: And the engagements are through the roof. There's something like 75 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: twenty times out of anyone on Twitter right now. That's amazing. 76 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: And of course, with President Trump as a draw, you're 77 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: going to have a very enthusiastic market. Absolutely, and President 78 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: Trump just joined formally truth Social and started truthing less 79 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: than one week ago. In fact, I was with him 80 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: in Marlago this past weekend where he started issuing his 81 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: first ever truth I think he's up to over three 82 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: million followers himself. And as you said, mister speaker, you know, 83 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: once he gets going, there's going to be a lot 84 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: of focus on his platform because that's how he's going 85 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: to communicate to the world. But one thing that I 86 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: thought made it more complicated was Elon Musk's decision to 87 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: buy Twitter. How do you think that interacts with truth Social? 88 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: You know, what I tell people is I think it's 89 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: the best advertising we could never have because while we 90 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: were always critical of Twitter and Facebook for their censorship 91 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: and their deep platforming of users, what Elon must did 92 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: was he came in and he gave a valuation to 93 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: an entity that had no valuation before. You know, Twitter's 94 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: not like the Googles and facebooks of the world, where 95 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: they aggregate and sell data in advertising and make money 96 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: in that fashion. They don't have a value. But he 97 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: came in and gave them a forty eight billion dollar value. 98 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: And what I told the president was, I said, this 99 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: is pretty brilliant when I saw this past weekend. If 100 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: we're successful in getting twenty million people on your platform, 101 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: real human beings on your platform, then truth Social by 102 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: the end of the summer could be a fifteen to 103 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: twenty billion dollar company according to mister Must's evaluation. So 104 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: it's all positive from my perspective. Somehow, given Trump's track 105 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: record of whether it was real estate or golf courses 106 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: or television shows, I wouldn't be shocked to have him 107 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: come out of all this is a big winner. And 108 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: of course one of the people he turned to was 109 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: your former boss, Devin noon Has, who I've talked with 110 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: many times, have great admiration for what was Nuna's like 111 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: to work for. So then Chairman nuna Has hired me 112 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: to run the Russia Gate investigation. So I spent some 113 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: time with him as a chief investigator for the Russia 114 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: Gate pokes or scandal, whatever you want to call it. 115 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: We were the guys that uncovered the truth that Hillary 116 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: paid for it, put out the Nunist memo on our report. 117 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: But the thing about Devon was he had a saying 118 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: he said, show up early, stay late, and work, and 119 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: that was sort of the ethos of the committee staff. 120 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: We showed up early, we stayed late, and we did 121 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: the work. And we knew it was going to be hard. 122 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: We didn't know it was gonna be that hard. We 123 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: didn't know the media was going to come after us 124 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: in the way they did. But I think Devon's inner 125 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: core is he's always been a free speech guy, free 126 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: communications guy, and he pushed that to the limit. And 127 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: the Russia Gate investigation showed the corruption in the media, 128 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: and he was really ticked off by that. And for 129 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: a nineteen year congressman who was about to take the 130 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: gavel at the Houseways and Means Committee, for him to leave, 131 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: it must have been something that caused him some serious concern. 132 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: And he did because he wanted to transform how the 133 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: media operates and how we communicate as America, because he 134 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: thinks it's gone so far south in the last five 135 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: six years that he felt leaving Congress this was his 136 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: new mission. And then I ended up working for him 137 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: and President Trump all over again. I'm very proud of 138 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: what Devin did. The great irony was Nunas was telling 139 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: the truth consistently what Adam Schiff was lying consistently. And 140 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: if I've suggested strongly to Kevin McCarthy, if the Republicans 141 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: do take control, that they created a unique special committee 142 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: for Chiff that has no staff, no legislative jurisdiction, no 143 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: work to do, and just put him there and nowhere 144 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: else under the rule that Pelos who set up that 145 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: the Speaker gets to pick and choose, even in the 146 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: opposition party. But it must have been sort of maddening 147 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: to know what the truth was and watch these people 148 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: and their allies in the news media just routinely lie 149 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: to the country. It was more than maddening. And miss Speaker, 150 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: you know better than anyone else in your career of 151 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: service to this country. Your job is to the American people. 152 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: It's not to any sort of conviction that you have 153 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: at the end of the day if that violates the truth. 154 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: And what Devin did was he said, look, you have 155 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: the intel background, you're former federal prosecutor and public offender. 156 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: I need you to come in and run this investigation. 157 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: I said, I'll do it on one condition. Whatever we find, 158 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: we put out to the American people. We didn't know 159 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: what we're going to find. And he agreed to do 160 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: that right away, and I said, then we can go. 161 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: But neither of us saw the headwind. I guess you 162 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: can call it of what the mainstream media and Adam 163 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: Schiff we're going to do, and that they would intentionally 164 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: elected members of Congress and deep state politicians would go 165 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: to the cameras and lie and lead classified information to 166 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 1: support politically friendly narratives. It was just more than shocking. 167 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: And the fact that there hasn't been enough accountability on 168 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,239 Speaker 1: that is I think something that frustrates most of Americans 169 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: more than anything else. I think we're finally getting there 170 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: with John Durham, but we laid the foundation in the 171 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: Russia Gate investigation, but the torrent that we faced was 172 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: not anything we were prepared for. You know your own 173 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: career of searching for the truth. It's interesting that you 174 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: were a public defender in Florida for eight years. I mean, 175 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: what led you to decide this normally not a very 176 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: high paying job. And I'm sure many of your relatives 177 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: looked like you were nuts. They all thought I was 178 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: crazy if you're going to grad school to go work 179 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: at a white shoe law firm and make lots of money. 180 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: And I took a trial class my last year of 181 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: law school, and I said, this is kind of fun. 182 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: And then I thought, what would be even sillier. Let 183 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: me find the job in America that pays the least 184 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: When you have one hundred and eighty thousand in debt 185 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: after graduating law school, and I thought, let me go 186 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: be a public defender. But honestly, it was a blessing 187 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: in disguise. The skills I learned trying cases in state 188 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: and federal court have served me in my entire career, 189 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: even later when I became a terrorism prosecutor, and then 190 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: throughout my career in the Intel Community Department, Defense and 191 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: obviously running Devon's Rushigate investigation. But I'm curious, your clients 192 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: included some pretty nasty people. The worst of the worst, 193 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: mister speaker, you know, was a fascinating learning curve for 194 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: me to have to represent murderers, people who had committed 195 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: sexual crimes, cartel official human smugglers. But in the realm 196 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: of due process. I told my boss down there, I said, 197 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: if you're going to be a public defender, then give 198 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: me the worst of the worst, because if you can't 199 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: give those guys due process, then our system fails. But 200 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: the hint that my Democratic friends gave me in the 201 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: public defender arena was kind of foretelling, but I didn't 202 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 1: see it at the time. They would come in and say, well, 203 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: we don't want to represent X or Y, and I 204 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: was like, I thought, you guys are the holders of 205 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: due process, and you're now coming in being selective about 206 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: who gets the applications afforded in the Constitution. So I 207 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: thought it was ironic then, But I guess they showed 208 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: their true colors. I just didn't see it for a while. 209 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: I'm curious, did it change your understanding of the criminal class? Yeah? 210 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: It really did. I mean, look, the reality is people 211 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: always ask did you ever defend truly innocent people when 212 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: you're a public defender, and you know over n No, 213 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 1: of course not. They were charged with something. The difference 214 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: was the level of the charging, and in terms of sentencing, 215 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: I think that's where really the rubber meets the road, 216 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: because that's the fight you have to undertake to say, 217 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: should this person with this background receive this kind of sentence. 218 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: But the one thing I did discover in the biggest 219 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: cartel case I ever defended, was the federal prosecutor in 220 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: that case hid exculpatory information from the court and me 221 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: in a two year case, and at the end of it, 222 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: when I found it, the judge was forced to throw 223 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: the entire case out against sixteen defendants who had imported 224 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: more cocaine through South Florida up until that time than 225 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 1: any other in history. And that was another one of 226 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: those things where I was like, how can federal prosecutors 227 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: in the FBI fail us like that intentionally? And you know, 228 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: lo and behold. I would come to find out that 229 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 1: that would serve me well during the Russia Gate investigation, 230 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: because that's what happened there. It was disappointing for a 231 00:11:48,880 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: career public servant like me to see that kind of activity. 232 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: But Jhen, you switched, so you go from public defender 233 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: to being the trial attorney for the US Department of 234 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: Justice National Security Division, which in terms of learning must 235 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: have been an amazing learning curve. But now you're on 236 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: the other side trying to lock up guys who are 237 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 1: engaged in terrorism. Yeah. I have to say that was 238 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: one of the greatest jobs ever. I was prosecuting terrorists 239 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: all over the country and overseas and working with our 240 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: intel community in our military to get these guys, and 241 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: we were using the FISA process to get surveillance of 242 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: these guys overseas, and it was really technical stuff, changing 243 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: information from the battlefield into usable evidence that you can 244 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: use in an Article three court and all information and 245 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 1: skills I would later use when we found out about 246 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: the FISA abuse process. So I guess God was sort 247 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: of preparing me for that ultimate investor instigation. But in 248 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: terms of a learning experience, Wow, my time at the 249 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: Justice Department was just fascinating. Then you had a brief 250 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: parade where you're actually on the House Intelligence Committee, again 251 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: getting a whole new education. I think the trade off 252 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: I made with Devin was since I was a counter 253 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: terrorism guy sort of by trade by that point, I said, 254 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: let me run your counter terrorism platforms for the Intel programs, 255 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: and in exchange, I'll run the Rushigate investigation. And it 256 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: was fantastic. I went to thirty six sites around the 257 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: world for our intelligence programs and military installations and just 258 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: learned how the community and the DoD operate to support 259 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: American national security. And then of course the budgeting, as 260 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: you are all too familiar with and an expert at. 261 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: It was a great learning curve for me. Well, by 262 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: the time I met you, you were actually back in 263 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: the National Security Council environment, and you're busy helping track 264 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: down some of the worst enemies of America and helping 265 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: design operations a work. I mean, we were in fact 266 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: very successful in breaking up ISIS, and in tracking down 267 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: Oh Bagdatti and then later on Solomoney, so in very 268 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: targeted operations with minimum risk to Americans, the Trump administration 269 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: was actually pretty amazingly effective in making a dangerous to 270 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: be our enemy. And you're right at the heart of that. 271 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: What did you learn about the application of American power 272 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: to defeating terrorists? Well, two things. I learned that the 273 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: power of the National Security Council is where all the 274 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: inter agency process intersects to effectuate a president's agenda. And 275 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: President Trump came to me and said, basically, look, as 276 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: counter terrorism head, you need to kill the emirs of ISIS, 277 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: wipe out all kind of senior leadership, protect our border, 278 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: defeat the narco traffickers, and bring home American hostages. Pretty 279 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: a political stuff. What I was shocked to find as 280 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: my time at the National Security Council was how many 281 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: people within government, including career official and political appointments made 282 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: by Trump, who wanted to impede missions like the Bagdaddy 283 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: raid or the Solomony strike or the retrieval of American hostages. 284 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: You know, as much as I learned about the inner 285 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: agency and how to churn that machine to drive a 286 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: President's agenda. What I learned even more so was how 287 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: to take on these people that were within that system 288 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: fighting it just because they had a leader in President 289 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: Trump who they politically disagreed with. And it was just 290 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: shocking to see that continuation of the leak of classified 291 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: information that I experienced at House Intel carry over into 292 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: the executive branch when we're guiding the president's national security mission. 293 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: So for me, that was another tragic experience because we 294 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: were all rowing in the same direction. They just didn't 295 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: want Trump to have the credit. Well, when you were 296 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: a principal deputy to the Acting Director of National Intelligence, 297 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: you oversaw the operations of all seventeen intelligence agencies. Do 298 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: we really need seventeen intelligence agencies? I'm with you, mister speaker. 299 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: You know, when Ranel and I were over there, we 300 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: cut the workforce down by I think something like ten 301 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: percent in just the short time that we were there. 302 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: And we don't need them. We don't need all of 303 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: those slots. We don't need all of those billets. But 304 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: what happens is Congress legislates these billets and it sounds 305 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: good to the American public that we're increasing X and Y. 306 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: Here an agency and Department Z and A over there, 307 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: But we don't need them. We need our focused subject 308 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: matter of folks guided to target the presidential priorities when 309 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: it comes to intelligence collection, and you don't need seventeen 310 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: agencies to do it. You certainly don't need the millions 311 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: and millions of people assigned to it to do it. 312 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: You need to trim that substantially. In my opinion, this 313 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: may be an unfair public view that may not be 314 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: accurate in private, but I was surprised that they seem 315 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: to be wrong about the capacity of the Taliban, and 316 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: they seem to be wrong about whether or not Putin 317 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: would go into Ukraine, and then they were clearly wrong 318 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: about whether or not the Ukrainians could resist. I mean, 319 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: it does not worry you that we have this many 320 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: people working this hard to not get it right. What 321 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: I can say to you, mister speaker, is that it 322 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: does worry me. But I think if you were able 323 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: to distill it down to the subject matter of folks 324 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: who actually studied whether or not Putin would go into 325 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: the Ukraine, who actually studied whether or not the Taliban 326 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: would rise again, these folks would come to you and 327 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: probably have gotten it right, because I remember looking at 328 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: intelligence in those channels and seeing it. But what happens 329 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: was is it's the politicization of the intelligence apparatus by 330 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: the folks on the top to support whatever narrative, for instance, 331 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: in this case Joe Biden, that they want, So they 332 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: remove the focus on fights like that and place it 333 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: on things like climate change and others. And then once 334 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: information actually gets to the top, it's filtered so that 335 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: this administration's agenda is put before the national security interests 336 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: of our country. And that's what I call the ultimate 337 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: politicization of the national security apparatus. And it's unfortunate to 338 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: experience and see. You know, I've talked to four different 339 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: people about how Trump had approached Afghanistan towards the end, 340 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: and they all give the same basic story. So you're 341 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: the fifth one, and you actually you did a pretty 342 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: cool article in the New York Post entitled I ran 343 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: Trump's Afghan withdrawal, Biden's attempt to blame us. As just said, 344 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: when you were in charge of when executing President Trump's strategy, 345 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: how did you see that process of occurring in Afghanistan 346 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: and why did you think it would have been dramatically 347 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: different had Trump been reelected. President Trump said, we have 348 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: to leave, but leave the right way. He ran on 349 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: that campaign about leaving and we couldn't just up and leave, 350 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: and he had entrusted me to do it, and having 351 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: the background and having worked in Afghanistan on the ground, 352 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: I kind of knew the in the terrain and he said, look, 353 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: we can't just jump out of Afghanistan. We have to 354 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: keep Bagram. We have to keep our drone predator programs. 355 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: We have to keep some small special forces group on 356 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: the ground so that al Qaeda and the Taliban no, 357 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: we mean business. And we have to make sure that 358 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: our diplomatic channels are working. Those are just some of 359 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: the things that he wanted done before a full out withdrawal. 360 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: And it was working because I think the Taliban and 361 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: al Qaeda and ISIS all looked at President Trump and said, 362 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: if we do something wrong, he is going to annihilate us. 363 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: And that was basically his message to them. And that's 364 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: the difference. And we took that blueprint. Though. This is 365 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that frustrates me most. When the 366 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: Biden administration was transitioning in and we did the transition 367 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: at the Department of Defense. We said, here's what's working. 368 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: Here's an intelligence based product that's working in terms of 369 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: how to get out of Afghanistan. And the Biden administration, 370 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: from the Secretary of Defense on down refused to even 371 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: call us back. And that was our signal that we 372 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: knew that they were going to completely politicize the withdrawal 373 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: and turn it into a cataclysmic evacuation that led to 374 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: the debts of thirteen US soldiers and hundreds of Afghans, 375 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: including drone striking children, because they wanted to put politics 376 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: before the facts and the intelligence. And that was the difference. 377 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: So do you think if the Trump team had been 378 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: reelected that they could have in fact found some balance 379 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan That would have been accepting of the reality 380 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: of the Taliban, but not allowing them to totally dominate 381 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: the country. I do, and I think we had that 382 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: set up in pieces. They hadn't all come together yet 383 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: by the time we left the administration. But the power 384 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: of President Trump was people were willing to listen to him, 385 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: negotiate with him. And also he commanded a level of 386 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: respect from our enemies, Al Qaeda and Isis being one 387 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 1: of them. And what I always tell people is you know, 388 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: they were like cash, how can you let the Taliban 389 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: govern Afghanistan? And my response to them is, who do 390 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: you want to govern Afghanistan? It's their country. The Afghan 391 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: people in the Taliban have to get together and form 392 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: some form of unified government to govern there. We can't 393 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: do it for them, you know. The Brits tried, the 394 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: Russians tried, and we tried our twenty year run there 395 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: and President Trump saw that we couldn't stay there forever. 396 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: But he did see a way forward by combining the 397 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: power of our national security apparatus with the command that 398 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: he had is commander in chief and used that fear 399 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: against our enemies and it was working. I truly believe 400 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: we could have left something in place that would have worked. 401 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: We probably needed another year or two. And do you 402 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: think they would have allowed us to stay in Bagram? Yes, 403 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,479 Speaker 1: because the simple fact is what most civilians don't understand 404 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: is Bogram Airfield has a strategic advantage point that we 405 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: paid for. But we also put our allies there along 406 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: with the Afghan national security forces and allowed our superior technology, 407 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: rotaryuing and fixed wing assets to stage out of there 408 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: so they could not replace that an Afghan government would 409 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: need that apparatus to secure the rest of their country, 410 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: and that's why I think they would have kept it. 411 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 1: Plus not to mention the detention center we had set 412 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: up there that they were operating. Now that we are 413 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: where we are, what do you think is the evolution 414 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: of Afghanistan over the next five or six years. I 415 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: hate to say, mister speaker, but I think US conventional 416 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: forces will be back on the ground in Afghanistan in 417 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: less than eighteen months. Al Qaeda is not going away. 418 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: The Taliban has discarded every asset that we had gained 419 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: in terms of leverage for the Afghan population. They've gone 420 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: in and brutalized women all over again and started setting 421 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 1: up their operations in conjunction with al Qaeda, which is 422 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: the biggest problem we have. And they've allowed al Qaida 423 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: senior leadership that was let out of Guantanamo during the 424 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: Obama administration to now go ahead and take over Taliban 425 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: senior leadership positions. So these forces, combined with the lack 426 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: of brown game the Afghan national security forces now have 427 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: because we're not there and our allies are gone, only 428 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: leads to an Afghanistan that will implode. I think, in 429 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: my opinion, I hope to god I'm wrong, but I 430 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: see in some manner or force terrorism rising drastically in 431 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: the next twelve to eighteen months. And the epicenter of that, 432 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: if it's not Iran, it's an Afghanistan. So from your perspective, 433 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: having looked at national security for years, what do you 434 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: think are the largest threats to the United States? Iran 435 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: to me, has always been the number one threat to 436 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: the United States and our national security. And you know, 437 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: you always hear that phraseology the number one state sponsor 438 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: of terrorism. They are that for a reason. Most people 439 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: don't look behind why they just so they have the IRGC, 440 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: the kots Force, their special forces operation that basically their 441 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: mission exists globally to take on and defeat American interest 442 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: in American allies, being in the Arabian Gulf, being in 443 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: the Middle East, in Iraq and elsewhere. And they are 444 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: now aligning themselves with China and Russia against America. And 445 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: they are going to continue to do that because in 446 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: their eyes, you know, they're led by the Ayatola. There's 447 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: no greater evil in the world in America, and we 448 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: have taken our eye off of that mission set, and 449 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: their capabilities are growing faster than ever. You know. Right 450 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: behind them, though, is Russia and China. You know, one 451 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: two two one. However you want to set the deck 452 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: on that. But Chinese, what they're doing to us in 453 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: space and underwater is a tragedy. It's a failure national security. 454 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: And the Russians are filling the space in Afghanistan that 455 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: we left by going in and deploying forces, in securing 456 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: the eighty billion dollars of equipment that we left there, 457 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: which they're going to steal. And so those are some 458 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: of the reasons why I think those folks are the 459 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: biggest threats to American national security. It just my greater 460 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: concern is that there is no plan in the Biden 461 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: administration to counter those threats whatsoever. Does you look at it, 462 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: given what's going on in Ukraine, how much would you 463 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: be concerned about stumbling into a nuclear engagement with Putin? 464 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: It's always a concern. Maybe I'm in the minority in 465 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:03,959 Speaker 1: this one. I don't think he's going to go to 466 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: the nuclear option because the one thing he knows about 467 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: American response on a nuclear level is it is better 468 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: than anyone else's in the world, and it doesn't matter 469 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: necessarily who's in the White House, because once you launch 470 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: one nuclear weapon, it's game over. And while they have 471 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: some superiority over China on the nuclear front, I think 472 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: even Putin knows that he's gained far more in this war, 473 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: that he's led into Ukraine from a propaganda standpoint than 474 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: he ever thought he would, and so I think he 475 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: sees this as a win, and to push it to 476 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: the nuclear front would cause a total annihilation of, if 477 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: not at least him, a significant part of Russia. So 478 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: I don't think we're heading there, and pray that we 479 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: don't head there. So I'm curious when you had an 480 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: overview of the Pentagon, as well as no review of 481 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 1: the national security system, how badly do you think we 482 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: need to overhaul the bureaucracies of a national defense system. 483 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: It's probably one of my largest priorities to whoever's coming 484 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: into the next administration. The Department of Defense is three 485 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: million employees. It's the largest organization on planet Earth, with 486 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: the biggest budget of seven hundred and fifty billion dollars. 487 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: The bureaucracy at the Department of Defense is like nothing 488 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my life. What you have to 489 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: do is start with R and D research and development, 490 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: which is the heart of the Department of Defense. The 491 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: problem is, we have sort of created this self licking 492 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: ice cream cone where we fund the Department of Defense 493 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: to no end, and the Defense industrial complex comes in 494 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: and takes thirty to sixty percent of that funding, and 495 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: then folks from the defense industrial complex drop in to 496 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: be senior level officials in an administration and then receive 497 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: their golden parachute on the way out to drop back 498 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: in to the defense industrial complex. And there's a smarter 499 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: way to do it. There's ways to save money. We 500 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: don't need to be spending multiples of billions of dollars 501 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: on projects that have failed. In the American people knew 502 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: how many projects fail because of poor leadership and execution 503 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: and bureaucracy. We could probably fund the GDP of most 504 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: nations in the world by just one of these project failures. 505 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: And I think R and d's were to start, but 506 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: I think you replicated everywhere, and the Department of Defense 507 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: has a lot of redundancies. And it's not an attack 508 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: on our men and women in uniform. That's the last 509 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: thing that it is. It's an attack on the bureaucracy 510 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: because people have created it to perpetuate itself to the 511 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: contravention of American national security and the cost of the 512 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: American taxpayer. So I have to ask you one other thing, 513 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: which may be the biggest surprise to me when we 514 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: got ready to do this conversation with you. I understand 515 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: you play ice hockey. I do. It's my favorite thing 516 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: in the world. Where did that come from? Well, it's 517 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: a little bit of a funny story. My father emigrated 518 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: to Canada from Uganda. He fled Idiomine's dictatorship. And my 519 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: dad was a pretty prolific field hockey player, and he 520 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: came to Canada for a couple of years and said, well, 521 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any field hockey here. There's this 522 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: thing called ice hockey. And he took to it. And 523 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: then shortly thereafter he and my mother got married and 524 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: had me, and I was skating since before I could walk, 525 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: and I've been playing ice hockey and coaching ever since. 526 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you this, mister Speaker, my Sunday night 527 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: hockey games. It's the one thing that got me through 528 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: the Russia Gate investigation and the ups and downs of 529 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: the Trump administration because it was my one out with 530 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: just stepping away from it all to enjoy something I love. 531 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: I don't know any other team's sport except maybe Australian 532 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: football that allows you to ventilate your aggression with the 533 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: enthusiasm of hockey. That might be one of the reasons 534 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: I love him. I don't know if you've ever shared 535 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: notes with Congressman Emmer, who has been a hockey coach 536 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: and played hockey, and I think all of his sons 537 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: play hockey, although he says his daughter's actually a better 538 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: hockey player than they are. So you still playing. I 539 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: still play. I still coach youth hockey in the area 540 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: and it's great, and my foundation is actually now sponsoring 541 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: one of my hockey teams, so it's all going great 542 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: and we're going to keep pushing forward. That's great. Well, listen, 543 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: thank you for serving the country. And I have a 544 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: hunch that you're going to do very very well with 545 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: truth social and the work you're doing right now, and 546 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: I think you'll be invaluable for the next administration in 547 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: helping rethink our entire national security of bureaucracy. So I 548 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: want to thank you for joining me and I want 549 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: you to know that I'm really proud to have you 550 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: as a friend, and I'm really delighted at the depth 551 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: of your patriotism and your commitment to America, and I 552 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: hope in the future we can get together both to 553 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: talk about truth social and to see how your thinking 554 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: evolves on the whole question of national security. Well, thank 555 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: you so much, mister speaker for those kind words that 556 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: they said at the beginning. Extremely humbling and an honor 557 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: to be on your show. And I appreciate the friendship 558 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: tremendously and I can't wait to see where this goes. 559 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: And I'll invite myself back anytime you want where. Thank 560 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: you to my guests cash Ptel. You can learn more 561 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: about rethinking the National Security System our show page at 562 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: newtsworld dot com. News World is produced by Gingwish three 563 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Garnsey Slump, our 564 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: producer is Rebecca Howe, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 565 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 566 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Gingwich three sixty. If 567 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 568 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give 569 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about. 570 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of news World can sign up for 571 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: my three free weekly columns at Gingwich three sixty dot 572 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingridge. This is news World