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Speaker 1: Hi Catherine, Oh Hi Chelsea. Oh my god, I would

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Speaker 1: a whirlwind. I love New York City so much. I

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Speaker 1: just don't know if I can leave here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm homeless right now anyway, So my house in la

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Speaker 1: is still not ready, even though I'm going back there

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Speaker 1: on Monday. I did my first two shows back at

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Speaker 1: the Beacon in New York City, and they weren't fucking epic.

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Speaker 2: In the middle of a river of water, right.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, there was a huge storm on

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Speaker 1: the first show I had Friday night. They were like,

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Speaker 1: do you want to cancel? And I was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Once you cancel a show, it triggers so

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Speaker 1: much else. So I was like, there's going to end

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Speaker 1: up being more people that show up than people who

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Speaker 1: can't come, you know. So we decided to just pull

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Speaker 1: the trigger and do the show and it was awesome,

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Speaker 1: and then Saturday Night's show was even more awesome. And

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Speaker 1: I'm just so happy to be back on tour. I

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Speaker 1: feel so rested. I feel like I had the vacation

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Speaker 1: of a lifetime, a summer of a lifetime. I Mean,

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Speaker 1: I just can't believe how fucking great my life is.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just so grateful that I have so many

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Speaker 1: people and fans that have given me this life because

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Speaker 1: I just am in enjoying myself to the n degree.

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Speaker 1: And I also feel like it's just time for me

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Speaker 1: to move to New York City.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Liz, I have a second

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Speaker 2: home there.

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Speaker 1: I know, I never lived in New York City. I'm

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Speaker 1: from New Jersey. I think it's time. And my business

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Speaker 1: managers I told them, I go, I think I might

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Speaker 1: want to move to New York soon, and they were like,

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Speaker 1: your house in LA is not even done yet. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, we're going to have to rent

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Speaker 1: that out to someone or do something. But I'm just

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Speaker 1: much more stimulated here and I just love it. Last night,

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Speaker 1: I was just out at this simple restaurant with like

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Speaker 1: five girlfriends, and I'm like, this is awesome. This is

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Speaker 1: what I want my life to be like. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to be in LA going to sleep at eight

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Speaker 1: o'clock every night like an elderly woman. I want to

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Speaker 1: live it up. It's time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have a lot of friends in New

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Speaker 2: York too, so it's like pop by see people.

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Speaker 1: I like making new friends too. I make friends wherever

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Speaker 1: I go. I mean, I am just on fire with

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Speaker 1: my new friendships, my old friendships and new friendships. But

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Speaker 1: that's the one and great thing about traveling too and

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Speaker 1: bopping around. There's so many people to meet and interesting

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Speaker 1: people who add and contribute to your life and joyfulness

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Speaker 1: and experience and point of view, and it's just all

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Speaker 1: so interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, especially with as many places as you went this summer,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you got lots of different experiences.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I dosed a lot of people capting this summer.

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Speaker 1: I gave a lot of people microdosing of whatever I

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Speaker 1: had excellent. I love, especially strangers. There was this old

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Speaker 1: couple walking outside my house in MAYORCA, like a German couple,

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Speaker 1: not old but older, and they were holding hands and

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Speaker 1: we started talking. I don't know why, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: it's our anniversary, our thirtieth anniversary. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, you guys should take some microdose of LSD,

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Speaker 1: Like I have a whole sheet of it, and you

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Speaker 1: guys should do that. And they both looked at each

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Speaker 1: other and they're like, we will. I go take one

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Speaker 1: of my kayaks, take it out and put it, go

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Speaker 1: right out there and go have a good night. I

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Speaker 1: go just have fun with each other. And they came

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Speaker 1: back four hours later. I was kind of like, are

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Speaker 1: they still out there? And they came out and they

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Speaker 1: left the kayak and they left this little note on

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Speaker 1: the kayak and it was just the cutest thing. And

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Speaker 1: so I just want to give drugs to everybody. And

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Speaker 1: I know not everybody can do drugs, so I wanted

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Speaker 1: to say that it's not for everybody, but there is

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Speaker 1: something for almost everybody.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes it's kayaking on LSD.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's my favorite activity in my ARCHI I like

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Speaker 1: to get up. One night, I got up from dinner.

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Speaker 1: It was like nine thirty. I was like, I took

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Speaker 1: my Mango dakery and I ran outside. I was like,

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Speaker 1: it's time to get on a paddle board. And I

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Speaker 1: went because if the water is because we live in

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Speaker 1: this port and it's like I don't know who we are.

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Speaker 1: I'm alone, a single woman. I live there with all

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Speaker 1: the men that I have to hire to take care

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Speaker 1: of me, which is also a great irony in my life.

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Speaker 1: And I can go out there and paddle you know,

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Speaker 1: it's so still and placid at night, and just going

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Speaker 1: out there with my cocktail and my paddle board or

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Speaker 1: my kayak. I'm like, I just look up at the

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Speaker 1: stars and I'm like, oh God, I believe in you.

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Speaker 1: I believe in you now. Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Do to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been there, you know. I'm just trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out if it's too late to go to Antarctica.

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Speaker 4: You've been everywhere else.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, but it just feels like every

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Speaker 1: time I have an opportunity to go there, it just

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it's going to be I hate to

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Speaker 1: say this, but luxurious. Like I want to be on

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Speaker 1: a comfortable boat, and all these boats are like it's

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Speaker 1: like an exploration and I'm not an explorer.

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Speaker 2: No, those are some of the choppiest seas on the planet.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with that. I have a

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Speaker 1: problem with being comfortable, Like I want to be on

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Speaker 1: a yacht, not an exploration boat, because they're bare bones

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Speaker 1: and then you're living basically like sleeping on cement like

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Speaker 1: a Maxi pad on top of it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to have like an ice break.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, do I care that much? Like I'd like

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Speaker 1: to go, Oh god, I have these bruises on the

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Speaker 1: back of my neck because Dennis Colonello, who has two

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Speaker 1: meatballs for hands. My chiropractor, but he doesn't he doesn't

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Speaker 1: crack me. He got into my neck so deeply yesterday

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Speaker 1: because I have so much tension in my neck for

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Speaker 1: my I have some slip disc in my neck and

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Speaker 1: and I was washing my hair this morning in the

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Speaker 1: shower and I was like ah ah, And then I

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Speaker 1: texted him, I said, you know, you assaulted me.

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Speaker 4: Yesterday in your bruise.

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Speaker 1: But he's like that he's happy that he hurt me,

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Speaker 1: because that's his kind of personality.

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Speaker 2: Chiropractors, Okay, I feel like they it's not a popular profession.

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Speaker 4: They're all a little.

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Speaker 2: Weird, but like I feel like at some point they

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Speaker 2: go two different directions. There's okay, i'll crack your back,

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Speaker 2: make you feel better whatever, and the other direction they

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Speaker 2: just go so wooo.

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Speaker 4: It's like naughty.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's pretty woo woo. But he doesn't ever crack me.

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Speaker 1: He just realigns me. And it's very painful because I

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Speaker 1: have a situation where I hold all my tension in

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Speaker 1: my chest and neck like, so he gets in there.

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Speaker 1: I mean he literally is like digging into my boobs.

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Speaker 1: He puts a pad there yea to like try and

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Speaker 1: pretend that it's not you know what it is in you,

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Speaker 1: which is him basically feeling me up. So shout out

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Speaker 1: to Dennis Colonello.

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Speaker 4: Thanks Ennis.

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Speaker 1: But I have a great chiropractor and whistler who cracks

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Speaker 1: me because when I ski, my ribs pop out all

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Speaker 1: the time, like this right ram bobbys pops out, and

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Speaker 1: he cracks me all the time. His name is Keith,

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Speaker 1: and he's a fucking awesome.

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Speaker 4: I bet he gets a lot of business.

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Speaker 1: Oh not only does I probably carry him through the

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Speaker 1: whole year, because when my family comes up, we have

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Speaker 1: Keith come every night at six before dinner, and everyone

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Speaker 1: lines up and sits around and watches each other get cracked.

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Speaker 1: He's like, God, I feel like I'm in like a theater.

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Speaker 1: He goes, I can't, I'm performing for all of these people.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I know, but it's so good when

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Speaker 1: you're out of whack to get cracked. Oh I love

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Speaker 1: it when it rings through your whole body. I never

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Speaker 1: cracked my neck because women there's danger in women cracking

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Speaker 1: their neck really anyone, but more so for women. But

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Speaker 1: I like sometimes for my hips to get adjusted because

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Speaker 1: they get out of whack, you know. But yeah, one

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Speaker 1: night we were all this is years ago, my whole

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Speaker 1: family was like over Christmas, we're all up in Whistler

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Speaker 1: and we're all so stoned. Everyone is as high as

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Speaker 1: a kite, and so we were all just like watching him.

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Speaker 1: We set him up in the living room and everyone's

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Speaker 1: just like around watching him, drinking and just like staring

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Speaker 1: at him. And I was like, God, he must think

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Speaker 1: we are a one hot mess of a family. Did

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Speaker 1: you explain why?

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Speaker 4: Well, now, who cares?

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Who cares?

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Speaker 4: He's like these guys we're not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's better to be quiet and high than to

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Speaker 1: be loud and obnoxious. Yeah, that's what I tell myself. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I saw Barry Manilow on my flight yesterday.

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Speaker 4: You did, Yeah, how's he looking?

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Speaker 1: Exactly the same, exactly the same. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you look like it's almost like he's frozen in time.

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Speaker 4: And I'm glad Barry Mallows did great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he seems to be thriving. Maybe he was lying around, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: lying around he was. He walked to the bathroom all

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Speaker 1: by himself. That's when I noticed him.

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Speaker 4: Did you know al Pacino as.

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Speaker 1: Having a baby, a baby. I'm so sick of all

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Speaker 1: of this grossness.

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Speaker 4: And there's another one. It's al Pacino and de Niro.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, how fun for that baby.

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Speaker 4: One of them is eighty three.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you would be one hundred and one when

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Speaker 2: your kid graduated high school. If I'm doing my math correctly.

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Speaker 1: Well, you don't need to make the math because he

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Speaker 1: won't be there, so don't worry about it. It's really gross.

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Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch has seven children or six or they all.

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk has like fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Elon Musk's dad just had a baby with his stepdaughter.

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Speaker 4: What.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Elon Musk's dad had a baby with his step

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Speaker 1: daughter and.

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Speaker 4: It's a secret child. But it came out like.

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Speaker 1: Well, that explains a little bit about Elon.

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Speaker 4: Musk, I know, like it's got a little weird, weird

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Speaker 4: shit going on.

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Speaker 1: Well that family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, actually I think they just had their second

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Speaker 2: child together. I think that's what just came out recently.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty on that note.

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Speaker 1: What do you think is worse a stepdaughter or your

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Speaker 1: adopted daughter Like Woody Allen and his daughter Sunny, they

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Speaker 1: just keep having babies, in my opinion, to prove that

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Speaker 1: they were really meant to be all along. Meanwhile you're like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you were meant not.

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Speaker 5: To be No.

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Speaker 1: Our next guest, I've been following on social media for

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Speaker 1: a while because she is an advocate for not having

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Speaker 1: children as well. I don't know if you know that

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Speaker 1: about me, but I don't want children, So I've been

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Speaker 1: following her and then I saw I got her book,

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Speaker 1: which was called Women Without Kids, and I thought, hm,

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Speaker 1: we may have something to talk about. Please welcome Ruby Warrington.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, good afternoon. Hi, good morning, good afternoon, good evening.

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Speaker 1: Point us, no chairs.

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Speaker 5: I am in Miami.

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Speaker 1: Oh you are?

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Speaker 6: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Are you hanging out with Ron DeSantis?

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Speaker 6: Absolutely?

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Speaker 5: He invited me for dinner this weekend.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's fun. I hope there's a bunch of drag

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Speaker 1: queens and transgender people there totally so that they can

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Speaker 1: enjoy his presence as well.

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Speaker 6: Thanks so much for having me on, guys. I'm so excited.

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Speaker 3: Yes are we?

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Speaker 1: As are we? I received your book Women Without Kids,

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Speaker 1: and obviously we have that in common.

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Speaker 6: We do.

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Speaker 1: So talk to us. Talk to us about how you

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Speaker 1: came to that decision. Talk to us about the book,

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Speaker 1: about everything, your stance on being child free.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think that I was born this way. Honestly,

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Speaker 5: That's kind of where I've landed now. I've actually recently

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Speaker 5: started using the term a reproductive to describe how I

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Speaker 5: feel about having children, kind of like asexual, as in

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Speaker 5: like no desire to engage with the reproductive element of

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Speaker 5: my sexuality. Right, That's a term that I only came

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Speaker 5: up with more recently. But honestly, I feel like I

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Speaker 5: was born this way, you know, I just never had

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Speaker 5: a desire to have a child. This was something that

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Speaker 5: was questioned intensely throughout my twenties and thirties, to the

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Speaker 5: extent that I questioned it in myself, like why don't

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Speaker 5: I want to do this thing? Am I sure? I

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Speaker 5: don't want to do this thing? Will I regret not

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Speaker 5: doing this thing? And then I got to my early

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Speaker 5: forties and I honestly was looking ahead to menopause, and

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Speaker 5: I realized I was quite excited actually about what might

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Speaker 5: lie on the other side of this kind of monthly

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Speaker 5: hormonal roller coaster. And within that realized, no, I have

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Speaker 5: no regrets about not having had a child. There is

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Speaker 5: not one minute of panic kind of sounding in my

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Speaker 5: book body at this moment, like this was always the

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Speaker 5: right path for me. And how fortunate I am to

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Speaker 5: have been born in a country and in an era

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Speaker 5: where I actually got to make the choice not to

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Speaker 5: have a child, and I actually got to really live

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Speaker 5: true to myself, you know. And so I wanted to

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Speaker 5: write this book because it felt like the path of

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Speaker 5: non motherhood, no matter how a person finds themselves, there

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Speaker 5: is still so stigmatized. It's still seen as so other,

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Speaker 5: so unusual. People get so many questions about it. And

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Speaker 5: actually the statistics will show that women without kids are

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Speaker 5: rising in numbers dramatically all around the world and happier

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Speaker 5: and often happier and richer, richer.

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Speaker 1: There was a study that came out that said men

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Speaker 1: who are married are the happiest men, women who are

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Speaker 1: single are the happiest women.

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Speaker 5: Right, there are all of these kind of contradictions between

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Speaker 5: our actual lived experiences as women without kids and what

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Speaker 5: the society tells us our life are supposed to be. Like,

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Speaker 5: so I wanted to write the book to first and

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Speaker 5: foremost just validate the path of non motherhood, like again,

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Speaker 5: no matter whether it's by choice, by circumstance, not by choice.

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Speaker 5: Because a lot of people who've tried and failed to

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Speaker 5: have kids even there failed right like they see themselves

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Speaker 5: or they're often told that, like you just you failed

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Speaker 5: at this important thing, this most important thing. But beyond that,

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Speaker 5: you know, the statistics will show that the birth rate

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Speaker 5: is actually decreasing massively in every single country around the world.

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Speaker 5: The number one reason this is happening is because women

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Speaker 5: are getting more access to education, more access to financial freedom,

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Speaker 5: and more empowerment basically. And yet there are plenty of

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Speaker 5: forces who do not see this as a good thing,

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Speaker 5: who would really prefer for women to continue having lots

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Speaker 5: of children, to keep boosting the birth rate and essentially

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Speaker 5: keep our economy kind of ticking on as it is.

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Speaker 5: And a lot of the time, the quote unquote blame

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Speaker 5: for the falling birth rates is put very squarely at

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Speaker 5: the feet of silly, selfish women who are choosing to

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Speaker 5: do other things with their lives then have kids. And

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Speaker 5: so it just felt like this really juicy area to

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Speaker 5: dive into in book format.

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Speaker 1: And what has the response been for you with other women?

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Speaker 5: I've been getting just countless DM, so many women who

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Speaker 5: reflect back to me what I so often felt I

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Speaker 5: thought I was the only one. Thank you, so much

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Speaker 5: for showing me that I'm not a weirder, I'm not

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Speaker 5: a freak. I haven't failed. Thank you for giving me

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Speaker 5: so many different ways to think about why I don't

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Speaker 5: want to be a mother, or even why I'm questioning

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Speaker 5: if that is right for me. So just a real

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Speaker 5: sense of solidarity and support and people feeling seen and

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Speaker 5: understood when they're reading the book. Of course, there has

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Speaker 5: also been you know, the occasional this book is poison,

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Speaker 5: you ridiculous, selfish person. You're going to regret this when

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Speaker 5: you're old, Like I kind of expected. I actually expected

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Speaker 5: more of those sorts of comments actually, but yeah, there

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Speaker 5: have been a few of those as well.

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Speaker 1: I get a lot of backlash, a lot of backlash

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Speaker 1: from men, conservative men. While I live in a Marria,

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Speaker 1: so we have you know, this is a hot mess

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Speaker 1: situation and a hot button topic here because men would

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Speaker 1: like to force us to have children here in this country.

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Speaker 1: So the backlash from women mostly it's supportive from women

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Speaker 1: and especially mothers are like, yeah, to each his own,

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Speaker 1: you know, why would you ever force this on somebody else?

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Speaker 1: But when I do get these messages from mothers going

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Speaker 1: you're such a sad person or they comment on my posts.

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Speaker 1: You're such a sad person, Chelsea. You're so sad and

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Speaker 1: you're just covering it up with humor, and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be miserable. You're gonna die alone. I'm like, I hope

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Speaker 1: I do die alone. I don't want to die with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other people. What are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: You're gonna die alone? You think the reason to have

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Speaker 1: a child is so that you don't die alone. I

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Speaker 1: don't want anyone dealing with my death. I want to

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Speaker 1: be shut and just put down or whatever. Like if

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Speaker 1: I'm sick, shoot me and bury me, or actually light

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Speaker 1: me on fire and cremate me, whatever's best for the environment,

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Speaker 1: because I think cremating is bad. Now they can liquefy

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Speaker 1: your body I heard recently, right, But anyway, those aren't

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Speaker 1: the reasons. And to speak to the main issue that

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Speaker 1: everyone brings up, which is in a more loving way,

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Speaker 1: is you're going to miss out on the most beautiful

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Speaker 1: love of your life. It is the most transcendent. You

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Speaker 1: can't describe how somebody feels when they give birth to

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Speaker 1: a baby and the love that they feel. Of course

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Speaker 1: I believe that to be true, but I'm okay with that,

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Speaker 1: and if I'm okay with missing out on that kind

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Speaker 1: of love. Just like some people will never have pets,

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Speaker 1: some people will never experience that kind of love. And

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Speaker 1: that's not the same as a kid, but for some people,

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Speaker 1: that's even better than a kid. The most common thing

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Speaker 1: that I hear among mothers is no one said it

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Speaker 1: was going to be this hard. No one said it

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Speaker 1: was going to be this hard.

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Speaker 5: I hear that all the time, and I'm like, are

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Speaker 5: you kidding me? Literally, everyone always talks about how it is.

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Speaker 6: All I ever hear is this is really hard, This

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Speaker 6: is so hard.

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Speaker 5: And then everyone I know who becomes a mom is like,

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Speaker 5: no one tells you how hard this is going to be.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, what if you've been what channel have you

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Speaker 5: been listening?

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Speaker 1: I think there is an overwhelming chorus of people talking

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Speaker 1: about how beautiful it is, how one wonderful it is.

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Speaker 1: They don't say, hey, you're going to be up for

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Speaker 1: the first six months of their lives fifteen times a

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Speaker 1: night or whatever it is three times a night. I

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Speaker 1: guess I'm exaggerating breastfeeding, or that you're beholden that you

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Speaker 1: have no life for six months. People talk about it,

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Speaker 1: but the overwhelming chorus is one of positivity rather than

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Speaker 1: of negativity.

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Speaker 5: I think, and I do actually think that the physical experience.

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Speaker 5: You can read all that stuff and you can hear

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Speaker 5: about it, but then the physical experience and I think,

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Speaker 5: actually what a lot of women find really hard, especially

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Speaker 5: women who have grown up with a degree of agency

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Speaker 5: and freedom to kind of live our lives on our

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Speaker 5: own terms thanks to the different waves of the feminist movement,

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Speaker 5: becoming a mother means say goodbye to all of that.

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Speaker 5: So it kind of means a loss. It actually means

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Speaker 5: a loss of privilege in a way. If freedom, autonomy,

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Speaker 5: self authorship, bodily sovereignty, these are privileges which have been

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Speaker 5: fought for by the feminist movement. Women of Gen X

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Speaker 5: Millennials gen zs were the first generations of women to

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Speaker 5: really kind of experience that in our lives, and so

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Speaker 5: of course, becoming a mother means a loss of so

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Speaker 5: many of those privileges, privilege which used to be only

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Speaker 5: applied to men. And so I think that it's actually

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Speaker 5: maybe even harder to weigh up the kind of sacrifices

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Speaker 5: and responsibilities of becoming a mother against the kind of

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Speaker 5: freedoms that we now have the opportunity to go after

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Speaker 5: in our lives. So I think that's something that when

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Speaker 5: I get that kind of feedback, it often does feel

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Speaker 5: like a projection. I think that can be quite a

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Speaker 5: envy in those kind of comments as well. Maybe if

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Speaker 5: someone is feeling a bit like I don't enjoy this

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Speaker 5: nearly as much as I should do, or the love

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Speaker 5: actually doesn't make up for all the sacrifices, but they're

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Speaker 5: not allowed to say.

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Speaker 1: That, Or you don't feel the love that everyone's telling

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Speaker 1: you you're going to feel, you don't feel that you

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Speaker 1: experience a terrible case of postpartum, or you don't feel

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Speaker 1: that connection to your baby that everyone tells you you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to feel, and then you feel like something's wrong

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Speaker 1: with you, and then you feel like it's a whole

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Speaker 1: game of shame. Also, parenting, you feel like you never

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Speaker 1: know that you're doing the right thing. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is the feedback I've heard and books I've read, like

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Speaker 1: you never know what you're doing, you know if if

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Speaker 1: you're doing the right thing, and the idea that every

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Speaker 1: woman is supposed to have a baby isn't taking into

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Speaker 1: account the baby you're supposed to have a baby, and

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Speaker 1: then and then the baby suffers because you're not prepared

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Speaker 1: or interested in the way that like, it is such

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Speaker 1: a thoughtful process to come to the conclusion that it's

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Speaker 1: not for you. It should be such a thoughtful process

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Speaker 1: to come to the conclusion that it is. There are

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Speaker 1: so many women that talk about I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I want one, but I'm gonna freeze my eggs and

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. It's like, if you

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Speaker 1: don't know, then maybe you don't. You don't, then you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have a kid. You have to be one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty percent on board with having a child, not

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Speaker 1: be like I have these eggs, I guess you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm gonna I'm gonna be forty. I'm gonna just try.

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Speaker 1: I think that is just so such a mistake for

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Speaker 1: so many people.

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Speaker 5: And that's why I wanted to write this book to

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Speaker 5: say it's it's different, and it's equally valid not to

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Speaker 5: be a parent, because that doorway has been so closed off,

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Speaker 5: because it's been so stigmatized, Like if you don't become

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Speaker 5: a parent, especially actually if you don't become a mother,

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Speaker 5: because I don't think supplies to men in the same way.

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Speaker 5: If you don't become a mother, you have missed out.

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Speaker 5: You will be unfulfilled, you are cold heartless. You are

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Speaker 5: going to miss out on this most transcendent, most important,

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Speaker 5: deepest love that you can ever feel. You're going to

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Speaker 5: regret it, and you will die lonely, destitute and alone.

438
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 5: And so when all of that stigma exists, that door

439
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 5: to non motherhood is closed off. So for anyone who's

440
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,119
Speaker 5: questioning it, even if they have really serious doubts about

441
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,920
Speaker 5: their parental readiness, like their capacity to be a parent,

442
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 5: it's going to be so much easier just to go, Ah,

443
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 5: I guess I'll just do it anyway, or I guess

444
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,439
Speaker 5: I'll just go along with it, because I guess I

445
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 5: don't want to be labeled with all of that stuff,

446
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 5: or I don't want to take the risk on, you know,

447
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,719
Speaker 5: being this lonely old spinster. Although, like you say, Chelsea,

448
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,439
Speaker 5: ultimately we all die alone, right, no one's going with us,

449
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 5: No one's like holding our hand crossing us over to

450
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,439
Speaker 5: the other side. And there's also no guarantee that our

451
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 5: kids are going to be that our kids could well die.

452
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 6: Before we do.

453
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 5: And also statistically, this was so sad when I read this.

454
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 5: Sixty percent of people living in old people's homes don't

455
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 5: receive any visitors. There's no guarantee you're going to have

456
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,120
Speaker 5: the kind of relationship with your kids where you want

457
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 5: them all to be, or they all want to be

458
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 5: at your bedside, kind of like seeing you off, you know,

459
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,919
Speaker 5: onto the next dimension. So part of the point of

460
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:15,719
Speaker 5: the book, and I've had so many moms read it

461
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 5: and actually feel really grateful or expressible gratitude for making

462
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 5: them feel less like defectible, less like they've failed, if

463
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 5: they're actually not enjoying being a mum, or if they

464
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 5: actually sometimes want to still be the woman they are

465
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 5: without their kids, you know. But a big part of

466
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 5: the book was just about saying, Hey, this is the

467
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 5: most important decision you can ever make. It's one of

468
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 5: the only decisions you can't unmake. So know yourself, know

469
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 5: your capacity, know your choices, and act accordingly.

470
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 1: No your partner, and know whether or not I just

471
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 1: was talking to a girlfriend last night. She has three kids,

472
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: she's in an unhappy marriage, she's been married for almost

473
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 1: twenty years, and she's stuck. She's getting ready to make

474
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: a move, but she has stayed in this unhappiness because

475
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 1: of her children, And that in it of itself, is like, Hello,

476
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: you don't know what the commitment is until you have

477
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 1: those children. And then so many women find themselves in

478
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 1: a situation where it's not a fifty to fifty parenting situation,

479
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 1: where the women are fucking doing everything, and not only

480
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 1: are the men not contributing in an equal manner, they

481
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,640
Speaker 1: don't even appreciate all the work that their wife has

482
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 1: done to raise these children until they separate and then realize,

483
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: oh shit, oh fuck. I mean, I can't tell you

484
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: how many of my girlfriends have left their husbands who

485
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: didn't appreciate them, didn't value what they did in their

486
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: child's lives. Now they're divorced and they have no fucking

487
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 1: idea what to do with these kids because they've never

488
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: had to do it. And so there's that element on

489
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 1: top of it. So not only can children, you know,

490
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 1: trap you into being a parent, which is the idea,

491
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: you can get trapped in other ways by being a parent,

492
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: which you're not even thinking about. You're not thinking your

493
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 1: husband's not going to be a good father or a

494
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: good husband or whatever. So there's just there's so much

495
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: landscape to actually consider before making that decision. I know,

496
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: when you have a husband, I mean, then there's women

497
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: who have children to save their marriages, which is the

498
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: dumbest thing you could possibly do. I had a girlfriend

499
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 1: once to say, like, if you have problems in your marriage,

500
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: children will only intensify those problems. They're not going to

501
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: solve your problem.

502
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 5: Because children just add stress. They add financial stress, they

503
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 5: add stress in terms of your time, stress in terms

504
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 5: of the equality balance in the marriage. Like, yeah, there's

505
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 5: going to be ideally like some fun times and a

506
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 5: lot of love, but what you're guaranteed is actually quite

507
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 5: a lot of stress. And one thing I realized about

508
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 5: myself is that I have quite a low capacity for stress.

509
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,719
Speaker 1: I also have a low capacity for stress.

510
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 6: I would like to say I am low capacity for stress.

511
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 5: I'm like I can get really easily overwhelmed, Like if

512
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 5: I have too many things in my calendar, I spin out.

513
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 5: I don't know if it's ADHD or what. I haven't

514
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 5: ever had a diagnosis like that, but I spin out

515
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 5: really quickly, and I get very overwhelmed with deadlines and

516
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 5: having to kind of switch hats too many times during

517
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 5: a day, and that's basically parenthood. From what I can see,

518
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 5: parenthood is going from one thing to the other, with

519
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 5: multiple different people going through different situations in each day. So,

520
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 5: like knowing about myself, how overwhelmed I get with that

521
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 5: kind of lifestyle. I know that parenthood would likely not

522
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 5: bring out the best side of me, let's say, and

523
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 5: that that stress would then be transferred to my kids

524
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 5: and it just would be kind of a shit show.

525
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: So I agree with that statement. It would not bring

526
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 1: out the best side of me.

527
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 4: Such a good way to put it.

528
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: I also want to just say, this is a conversation

529
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 1: about child free women, and you know, and obviously anyone

530
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: who follows me on Instagram knows how I make these

531
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: PSAs about, you know, the wonders and joys of a

532
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 1: child free existence. Nothing I do is to shame women

533
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: for having children, And what I'm trying to do is

534
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: celebrate women who choose not to have children because they

535
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: don't have enough representation. Nobody is telling women, yes, you

536
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: can be whatever you want. I mean, there are some,

537
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: but that's not the overarching theme in the society we

538
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 1: live in. It's when are you getting married and when

539
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: are you having children. So with the joy and experiences

540
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 1: that I've had in my life without having to done

541
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: either of those things, I feel it is my purpose

542
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: to represent to the women who have either chosen not

543
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: to have children or haven't been able to have children,

544
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: that there is joyfulness and happiness to be found in

545
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: a panoply of other ways in our society and in life.

546
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: So I want to make sure women know that, you know,

547
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: if you want to have a child, of course, go

548
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: have a baby. I'm not mad at you. I want

549
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: everyone to feel empowered, every woman to know that the

550
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: decision is yours to make, and if you don't choose

551
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: to have children, there is nothing unvaluable about you. And

552
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: on that note, we are going to take a quick

553
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: break and we'll be right back. And we are back

554
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 1: with Ruby Warrington, author of Women Without Kids. Oh Ruby,

555
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: also sober Curious? What the fuck? What is that curious about? Sobriety?

556
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 6: Yes, so sober Curious.

557
00:24:58,920 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 5: This is my last book.

558
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: So.

559
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 5: I had always been an enthusiastic social drinker, shall we say,

560
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 5: And I got to my mid thirties and I started

561
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 5: getting the feeling that alcohol might actually be a cause

562
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 5: of some of the anxiety and depression and difficulties that

563
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 5: I was experiencing at the time, But my drinking didn't

564
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 5: really look like problem drinking. It didn't look like alcoholic drinking.

565
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 5: I went to a couple of AA meetings, didn't really

566
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 5: see my story reflected there. But I knew that I

567
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 5: wanted to make a change, and so I came up

568
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 5: with this term sober curious that was kind of less judgmental,

569
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 5: a bit more open minded, and would give me permission

570
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 5: to just ask some of my questions about alcohol, like

571
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 5: am I drinking too much? How much is too much?

572
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 5: Why is there so much pressure to drink? Why are

573
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 5: there so few decent alcohol free options on every menu everywhere?

574
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 5: Like all of these questions, right, And so that became

575
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 5: a bit of a movement in a way. I started

576
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 5: hosting events in New York which were immediately hugely popular,

577
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 5: and then I had a book on the subject come

578
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 5: out at the very end of twenty eighteen. And that

579
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 5: term has really taken and I think it's been embraced

580
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 5: by a lot of normal social drinkers who've had maybe

581
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 5: one too many horrific hangovers and actually really want to

582
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 5: make a change to their drinking. But without having to

583
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 5: give themselves the label of I'm an alcoholic or subscribe

584
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 5: to a kind of a program for recovery. You know,

585
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 5: but so you drink, I don't anymore. And I now

586
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 5: have got to a place where alcohol actually just doesn't

587
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 5: I just don't enjoy it at all. And this has

588
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 5: been over like ten years of experimentation and questioning and

589
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 5: experiencing longer and longer periods of abstinence, trying it in

590
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 5: certain situations, and just getting to a point where I'm like, actually, no,

591
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 5: it just makes me feel shit, Like even if I

592
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 5: get a few minutes of pleasure, which now actually feels

593
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 5: more like just numbness, the after effects are typically just

594
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 5: so horrible, even just from a glass of wine, like

595
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 5: my sleep is really badly impacted, my anxieties up, Like

596
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 5: it's just I don't enjoy it. But I've got there

597
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 5: from a place of choice, Like I've got there because

598
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 5: I decided that's not right for me, and I don't

599
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 5: want that in my life anymore, not because I in

600
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 5: a program that was telling me I was an alcoholic

601
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 5: and that if I ever picked up another drink, I

602
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 5: was gonna die. Basically, so it's just a more forgiving

603
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 5: more open ended approach to addressing or drinking by no

604
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 5: means is everyone who gets sober curious completely abstinent from alcohol,

605
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 5: but it's really for you might have heard the term

606
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 5: great area drinkers some people, people who kind of fall

607
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 5: in between just like can take it or leave it

608
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 5: and never really think about it to more kind of

609
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 5: like extreme alcoholism. There's a lot of people in that

610
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 5: great area drinking category who like abuse alcohol sometimes, who

611
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 5: sometimes can't control themselves, who sometimes drink more than they

612
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 5: know is good for them, and so the sober curious

613
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 5: approach really appeals to them.

614
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: I think as you get older too, I guess maybe

615
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: if you're not an addict. I don't know. As I

616
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: get older, like I like to drink, but at a

617
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: certain point it's not fun. Like I don't like to

618
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: be drunk like I used to, right, I like to

619
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: be a bused. I don't like to be drunk. So

620
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: at a certain age you just kind of like, you know,

621
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: like I'll have a drink before I go on stage,

622
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: and then when I get off, it's like I don't

623
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: want to have another drink, you know what I mean.

624
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: Then I want to like have an edible or something

625
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: my whole physiological response to alcohol has changed. But I

626
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: guess that's probably not fair to say, because I probably

627
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 1: am not an addict. And so if you're listening and

628
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: you're like, well, wait that, I know it's different for everybody,

629
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: So that doesn't naturally happen as you get older. Some

630
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: people who are addicted to alcohol, it could get worse

631
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: as you get older, and then you know, it just

632
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: continues to get worse, which is more typical. I would say, right, okay, Catherine.

633
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 2: Well with that, let's jump to our first caller, who

634
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 2: is sort of on this journey of sobriety. She may

635
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: be a little bit more on the spectrum of needing

636
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 2: to be a sober person, So just going into it

637
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: with that in mind. But Ashley says, I'm a forty

638
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: one year old nutrition counselor, lesbian and self proclaimed eternal

639
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: student that has been in recovery from alcohol for the

640
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: last six years. About seventy percent of that time I've

641
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: been able to say sober. A relapse is almost always

642
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: triggered by overwhelm or burnout, and never for a good time.

643
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: When I'm in captain recovery mode, I dive into meetings documentaries, books, workshops, retreats, podcasts,

644
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 2: and any and all things regarding neuroscience and addiction. I've

645
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 2: taught recovery groups, I've led meetings. I've recently put myself

646
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: on antibuse. I feel it's important to add I do

647
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: not adhere to any higher power. There has been much

648
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: lost and much put at risk due to this constant

649
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 2: tug of war. I've lost a special partner and bailed

650
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: on some major life events, weddings, funerals, even Chelsea's Netflix

651
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: special taping here in Nashville. Because I put myself into

652
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: a treatment center. I gave the tickets away to some

653
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: very happy sober friends. I'm just got sick over it all.

654
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 2: Visiting California a while back, a friend of three decades

655
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: said to me, out of the blue, Ashley, you've lost

656
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 2: your fight.

657
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 4: Who are you?

658
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: That really hit me more than any therapy session I suppose.

659
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: I'm writing to you now for more of the same.

660
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: I'd love to get your take, respectfully, Ashley.

661
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: Hi, Ashley, Hi, Ashley O.

662
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 3: Hi.

663
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: This is our special guest, Ruby Warrington. Today. She wrote

664
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: the book Sober Curious and also Women with our Kids.

665
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: But we're talking about sobriety for this.

666
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 7: Car excellent familiar?

667
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 5: Yes, oh good, well thanks for your No, it sounds familiar.

668
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 5: And what I mean is I've heard this from many

669
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 5: individuals like this is it's a good It's a roller coaster, right,

670
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 5: it can take us in so many different directions, and

671
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 5: just when we feel like we're really getting ahead of it,

672
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 5: there it comes here it is again, and I'm back

673
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 5: here again? And how did I get back here again?

674
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 5: And I know how frustrating and tiring and disheartening that

675
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 5: can be. I mean, I think there was one thing

676
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 5: in your letter that really really stood out to me,

677
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 5: and this is something that the sober Curious approach is

678
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 5: really very much about, and so many recovery programs too.

679
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 5: But when you said that you're drinking or your relapses

680
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 5: are triggered always by getting to a place of despair, overwhelmed,

681
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 5: just you know, doing too much stress, anxiety, etc. That's

682
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 5: such such useful information, it seems to me.

683
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 6: And it seems like you do yoga.

684
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 5: You're you know, you're obviously looking after your mental health

685
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 5: and well being as well, but really like being very

686
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 5: focused on that piece, like what are the life situations

687
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 5: and the circumstances that typically bring me into that place

688
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 5: of overwhelm where I know I'm going to be vulnerable

689
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 5: then and reach for that familiar medicator in those circumstances

690
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 5: that to me would be the really key thing to

691
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 5: be working on and looking at, literally, what are the

692
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 5: situations that bring me to that place, and how can

693
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 5: I work on ensuring that I encounter as few of

694
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 5: those situations and put myself in as few risky situations

695
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 5: with alcohol therefore as possible, which obviously is sometimes easier

696
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 5: said than done, because a lot of those stresses can

697
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 5: be external things that we don't have much control over.

698
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 7: When I wrote that letter, I was I was in

699
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,239
Speaker 7: a state of despair. I was two weeks sober, and

700
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 7: now I realized that I was in the beginning of

701
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 7: a mid life crisis. This month life crisis. I was

702
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 7: in a very antidonic state. I was joyless. And what

703
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 7: I've had to do is really be isolative and sort

704
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 7: of create this crystalis around me currently.

705
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: First of all, nice vocabulary, four solid words right there.

706
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 6: I love it.

707
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 7: I've just had to sit with it, and it's fucking uncomfortable.

708
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 7: It's been painful. Like I said, I've lost a lot,

709
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 7: but I feel like something Hash shifted and you hear

710
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 7: that a lot in the recovery community. With me, something

711
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 7: hash shifted in the last couple of months, and I'm

712
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 7: having trouble articulating it. However, it's monumental. This chrysalis is monumental,

713
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 7: and I still struggle with. My initial question was how

714
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 7: do you harness that inner bad astery when you feel

715
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 7: inept and I don't feel capable. I have like a

716
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 7: debilitating inadequacy, like an undeserving feeling. I don't deserve a

717
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 7: seat at the table. That's why I'm struggling with the most.

718
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: And do you feel this shift that you're talking about,

719
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: this wrestle list happening that's in your life? Is this

720
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: in the positive way?

721
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 7: Yes, there's no frills to it. Like I said, it's

722
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 7: been really isolating, and in the recovery world they sort

723
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 7: of that's not what they encourage you to do. But

724
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 7: I've had to do it. I've had to do this alone,

725
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 7: this leg of it, and I feel a little bit

726
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 7: lighter than when I initially wrote in I have some clarity,

727
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 7: and I guess the big thing is I trust myself

728
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 7: and I've never been able to say that, but I

729
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 7: still struggle with the inadequacy.

730
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 5: And again that can be such a trigger to why

731
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 5: do I feel this way? Okay, this is a little

732
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 5: bit left field. I feel like on this show I

733
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 5: can mention this. I'm also really into astrology, and I

734
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 5: don't know if you follow for your into astrology at

735
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 5: all now a little okay, So there is I actually

736
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 5: call it the astro life crisis. Between the ages of

737
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 5: about thirty nine, thirty eight, thirty nine and around forty five,

738
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 5: there are a series of very very tense astrological transits

739
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 5: that every person experiences. They're the kinds of life experiences

740
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 5: or that bring up the kind of life experiences and

741
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 5: psychological transitions where we can literally feel like all of

742
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 5: the illusions we've been operating under are shattered. Everything we

743
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 5: thought we knew about our life is not correct. You're nodding, Okay,

744
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 5: you're relating to some of this. And for me having

745
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 5: astrology is at aol, and particularly being able to maybe

746
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 5: take my birth chart to a talented astrologer and have

747
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 5: them kind of map out what transits I'm being impacted

748
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 5: by can be really helpful because it gives some meaning

749
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 5: or like there's something I'm going through. I'm not being

750
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 5: asked to look at some of this stuff for a reason.

751
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 5: And best of all, astrological transits always passed, so that

752
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 5: this too will pass is very kind of clear when

753
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 5: you apply the astrological lens. It's like, Yeah, you might

754
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 5: be having a really intense like Urinus transit which is

755
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 5: making you feel like your whole life has been turned

756
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 5: upside down, and there's some stuff for you to look at.

757
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 5: It's happening for you for a reason, and it's going

758
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 5: to pass, but you're going to come out the other

759
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 5: side of it. So I don't know, I just want

760
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 5: to offer that to you as an additional tool. I

761
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 5: guess potentially you know, understanding that you're interested in these

762
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 5: more kind of esogetetic subjects, it might be something that

763
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 5: could be helpful. And I also agree, like I'm an

764
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 5: introvert and i'm very insula and the typical recovery stuff

765
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 5: about like don't be in isolation that's never really served

766
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 5: me either. I charge up and I find so much

767
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 5: more self awareness and comfort in giving myself enough time alone, right,

768
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 5: enough time to actually sit with my feelings, let my

769
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 5: body process stuff through, like just kind of slob out, honestly,

770
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 5: and so I think, don't beat yourself up about feeling

771
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 5: like you're drawn to more alone time and that recovery

772
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 5: kind of message in your head going no, that's unhealthy,

773
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 5: that's dangerous. Give yourself what you need. It sounds like

774
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 5: you've been giving yourself some really good emotional self care

775
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 5: with that thank you.

776
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, there's an element of PTSD from being so saturated

777
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 7: in the recovery world for so long. You know, the

778
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 7: health Step foundation is built on powerlessness, and you know,

779
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 7: accepting or admitting that your life is unmannered. Well, I'm capable,

780
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 7: I know I am, but that that voice is so huge.

781
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: I also think it's important that program works for millions

782
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: of people, But that program isn't the only way to,

783
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,919
Speaker 1: you know, to quit something for an attic to quit,

784
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: because it's kind of putting it on the line each day,

785
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: like I'm sober today, Tomorrow is the next day.

786
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 3: You know.

787
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: The whole kind of mantra of AA is like I'm

788
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: here today, I'm sober today, I'm making this decision today,

789
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 1: which makes it like you have to make the decision

790
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 1: almost every single day, whereas if you make a decision

791
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: to quit something that this isn't serving you in your life.

792
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: You know, midlife crises. B Rene Brown puts it down perfectly.

793
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: She's like, we call it a midlife crisis because whatever

794
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: trauma that we've endured comes and sneaks back up on

795
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: us by the time we hit forty and all of

796
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: your armor, everything kind of falls away because then you're

797
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: forced to face your demons. And that's what you're doing.

798
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: You're facing your demons because it's time for a new

799
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: child in your life. And this isolatory behavior that you're

800
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: talking about is totally fine. Whatever the fuck you need

801
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: is fine. You could be I mean, do you know

802
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: how much value there is in spending time by yourself.

803
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: I've had some of the best times of my life alone,

804
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: Like that cannot be understated. You know, seeing friends is

805
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: also beneficial for your health and your emotional health.

806
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 4: And all of that.

807
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: But you can totally take breaks from people and totally

808
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: say I'm working on myself right now. You know, do meditation,

809
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: get into yourself, spiritually, connect with your inner voice. Understand

810
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: why you have a problem with alcohol in the first place.

811
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: That's the issue, you know, not necessarily the alcohol itself

812
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: that you're using as a band aid. You have to

813
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: reveal and release your trauma with a therapist, with yourself,

814
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: you know, with journaling, with writing, with reading books on

815
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: people who've experienced this and come out of it, like

816
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what steps you take to get there,

817
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: and don't think you have to follow the format of

818
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: alcoholics anonymous. There's you can make your own format and

819
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 1: we're all capable of that. And you just said this yourself.

820
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: You are capable of it. You're strong enough. We all are.

821
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 1: When I went to get hypnotized for smoking, like he's like, okay,

822
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: this is the mantra. If you have a desire, it's

823
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: not an option. It's not an option. I don't smoke anymore.

824
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: I'm done. That's like a little thing that he gave me.

825
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I am done. I know it's bad

826
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: for me. I know why I was doing it. I

827
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 1: over abused it, so now I have to give it up. Sorry,

828
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: you know, like whoopsie doodle. You abuse something and now

829
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: you have to give it up. The rewards are going

830
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: to be so much greater in your life for going

831
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: through this period of time that you're going through and

832
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: for taking like the bull by the horns. And just

833
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: because your journey happened to have some like slip ups

834
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: or you know, you fell off the wagon. I don't

835
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: like the way that's defined by alcoholics anonymous either. So

836
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: that's part of your journey you did that. There's no

837
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 1: self immolation necessary. That's okay. Hey, you fucked up. Hopefully

838
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: it won't happen again. But if it does, you're not

839
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: gonna beerate yourself. But you're definitely never going to become

840
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: the kind of drinker that you were before.

841
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, I all relapses reminds you learn something with every

842
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 5: time that it comes back, that you're there again, and

843
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 5: like you become stronger every time you listen and pay

844
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,479
Speaker 5: attention and act on what you've learned from each of those.

845
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 5: So yeah, and also Chelsea picked up on that you

846
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 5: said it, I am capable, I can do this. How

847
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 5: dare they tell me I'm not? That is the inner

848
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 5: badass that you've been thinking you don't have, Like there

849
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 5: she is right there, you know, I.

850
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: Think Also, you know we always are just like we

851
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: have all these constructs that everyone's telling us about. You

852
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 1: can forge your own path. You're strong enough, you're smart enough,

853
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: like you're you can define what your life is going

854
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: to look like moving forward. And what I would just

855
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 1: deter you from is this judgment that you are putting

856
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: on yourself, because no one wants that for you, especially you.

857
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: You don't need it. You don't need to be judging yourself.

858
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: You're living an authentic life. So you've struggled with alcoholism

859
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: or addiction or however you want to frame it. So

860
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: has have hundreds of millions of people and much worse.

861
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: So it's not something that has to define your life.

862
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: It's just part of your life.

863
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned a chrysalis, but when I think

864
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 2: about a chrystalist, I also think of emerging.

865
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 4: And I think you're gonna know.

866
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: When is the right time to sort of like come

867
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: out of your chrystalist and be around your friends again,

868
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: whether that's your AA friends or other friends, and enter

869
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: the world again.

870
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 4: But I think the point here is you will emerge.

871
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: As a butterfly. Yes, thank you all, You're welcome.

872
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 7: Thanks for digging deep with Menis I appreciate you all?

873
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate you. Ashley, thank you here.

874
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: I Oh, that smile is worth everything.

875
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an example of a caller who's almost almost

876
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: gotten to where she's going and just needed in one

877
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,959
Speaker 1: more push in the right direction because she's already there.

878
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 2: I have a couple of questions in a different vein here.

879
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 2: Our next question comes from Jay Dear Chelsea, I'd like

880
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: to start off by thanking you for always being an

881
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 2: advocate for women who have chosen not to have children.

882
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 4: You make me feel.

883
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 2: Validated and seen and heard in a world dominated by

884
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 2: a society that continues to value women becoming mothers over

885
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: women prioritizing themselves. I'm almost thirty, successful and live in

886
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 2: a mid sized coastal town in the South. I do

887
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: the majority of my dating through HINGE, and I'm genuinely

888
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 2: looking for a long term relationship. I've always known that

889
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 2: I never wanted to be a mother and have ended

890
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 2: a relationship in the past because of this. Here comes

891
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 2: the part I need advice about. For the past year

892
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 2: or so, I've been bringing this topic up on the

893
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 2: first date. I hate having my time wasted and give

894
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 2: the same respect to others, so I typically start by

895
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: asking do you want children? So far, the answer is

896
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: always yes. I wonder if they think that's what I

897
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 2: want to hear, if it's a cultural thing since I'm

898
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 2: in the South and having children is as normal as breathing,

899
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 2: or if it has to do with their age. The

900
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 2: average age for men I'm dating is around thirty five.

901
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 2: But since I know I'm not changing my mind about this,

902
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 2: I would never expect someone else to. Is it possible

903
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 2: I'm putting too much weight on this topic. I hate

904
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 2: the idea of being the woman that a man dates

905
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 2: before they eventually decide to go and find the mother

906
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 2: of their children. And I refuse to believe that because

907
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: I don't want children, then it means I have to

908
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: be single forever. Do you have any advice on dating

909
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 2: in my position or a different way to go about it?

910
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Chelsea Jay.

911
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: I think it's better to be upfront before you go

912
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: on the date then, I mean to speak to your

913
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: experience when you're talking to the guys and going just

914
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: so you know, Like, I've been on a lot of

915
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: dates and it's been an issue. It's come up a

916
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 1: lot of times that I'm meeting men who want children

917
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: and I'm not interested in that, So I just want

918
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: to get that out of the way. I mean, that's

919
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: pretty like an aggressive way to go about it. But

920
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: if you don't even want to waste your time with

921
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: a first date where you can kind of collect that

922
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: information and you want to get to the bottom of it.

923
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: I mean, then that's what you should do. You should

924
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: just preemptively be like just so you know, Like, I know,

925
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: we're only going on a first date, so I don't

926
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: want to sound crazy, but I don't want children, and

927
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: I've been out with a lot of guys and that's

928
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: a deal breaker. So I just want to see if

929
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: you want kids, Like, maybe we should skip it. You

930
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: could just be upfront like that. I mean, I think

931
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: the more natural thing to do is to go on

932
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: a date and have the conversation then, but if you

933
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: are sick of that, then this is a good way

934
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: to avoid having that happen again.

935
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it's ticket right on your profile, like not

936
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 2: interested in having kids?

937
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 4: Would you do that?

938
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 5: Right?

939
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 3: Yeah?

940
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 5: I think they should have they should have that as

941
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 5: a category, right. I think it would be really really

942
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 5: helpful because ultimately a lot of people are going on

943
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 5: dating apps to meet somebody to potentially do that with,

944
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 5: and so if you're not into that, I think it

945
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 5: would be really helpful if the apps themselves had a

946
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 5: category like what is your what's your stance on this?

947
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: You know, or put a picture of a baby up

948
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: on your profile app and with a cross, like a

949
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: big X over it.

950
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 5: That's a good way to let people know perfect. But

951
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 5: can I say one other thing on this? There was

952
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 5: a question as well about like why is it why

953
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 5: do all these guys say that they definitely want to

954
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 5: have kids, And I honestly think because it is the

955
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 5: faults to want to be a parent, Like we're kind

956
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 5: of living in this culture, which is very what they

957
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 5: call pro natalist, like parents are seen as more valid

958
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 5: than non parents. It's just like the normal thing to do.

959
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,439
Speaker 5: I think that a lot of the time when guys

960
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 5: are saying that, it's just reflective of the fact that

961
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 5: having kids and becoming a parent is seen more as

962
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 5: like a woman's issue. It's something that we are taught

963
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 5: to think about since we first having sex, since we

964
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 5: first get our period, as in like, don't get pregnant,

965
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 5: be careful, you don't get pregnant until you're such and

966
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 5: such age and until you've met the right person.

967
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 3: Right.

968
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 5: So we're kind of like indoctrinated with this, not indoctrinated,

969
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 5: but we're encouraged to really think about it from a

970
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 5: very early age, and I just don't think And I

971
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 5: think that shines the light actually on how much more

972
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 5: education there needs to be for men in terms of

973
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 5: like the responsibilities of parenthood and do you know what

974
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 5: it actually means to be a father? And you know, so,

975
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 5: I just think it's kind of interesting that you've got

976
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 5: all these guys who are immediately saying, yeah, I want

977
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 5: to be a dad, and it just makes me question

978
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 5: if they've really thought about what that actually would mean

979
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 5: for their lives.

980
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean surprised to even

981
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 1: hear men say yeah, we want kids, we want kids

982
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: like usually I would. I think they'd be open to

983
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: not having them since they don't do anything.

984
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 2: Our next caller is Krinn Krinne says, through doing the

985
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: work in counseling, I'm realizing that marriage isn't really what

986
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 2: I want for myself anymore.

987
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 4: Same can be said about kids.

988
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 2: I'm realizing that I'm absolutely happy being a cool and

989
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 2: loving aunt to my nieces and nephews. I know that

990
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: you can relate to all of this, which is why

991
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,240
Speaker 2: I need your help. Where are all the thirty somethings

992
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: single and child free people at I ask because two

993
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 2: more of my closest friends are expecting their first baby,

994
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: one shortly after the other. While I'm thrilled that this

995
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 2: is where their journey has led them, it's not the

996
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 2: same for me. And as excited as I am that

997
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: I get to have two more munchkins to spoil my

998
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: group of friends that I can text last minute to

999
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 2: see if they want to get away for the weekend

1000
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 2: is quickly dwindling. So some have suggested the app meetup,

1001
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 2: which I have but still feels a liffy. What would

1002
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 2: you suggest to help me connect more with this community?

1003
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: Karin Hikerin hiker In Hello, Hello, Oh.

1004
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 3: Here, I'm here, yay.

1005
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: And I should mention that Krin is a teacher, which

1006
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 2: is great birth control. I am sure she just jetted

1007
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 2: out from class.

1008
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 3: I did.

1009
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 8: Yes, Yes, it's a Yes, it is birth control, but

1010
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 8: it's also I do love it.

1011
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: Yes, that's nice, that's great.

1012
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: And our guest is Ruby Warrington, who wrote the book

1013
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 2: Women Without Kids, so she is perfect for her questions.

1014
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 3: Oh hello Ruby, perfect.

1015
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 5: Yes, the subtitle lift my book is the Revolutionary Rise

1016
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 5: of an Unsung Sisterhood, and that piece unsung sisterhood speaks

1017
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 5: to this exact thing you're talking about so often when

1018
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 5: you decide you don't want to have children, and it

1019
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 5: feels like I'm the only one. More I realized the

1020
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 5: more I started talking about it, asking people about it,

1021
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 5: looking on social media for other people who felt the

1022
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 5: same way, I was like, Oh, there's so many of us.

1023
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 5: We just don't have anything to kind of like show

1024
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 5: that we're women without kids, because what we have in

1025
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 5: common is the lack of a child, right, And there

1026
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 5: aren't like after school groups for us or meet up

1027
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 5: groups for us. Like there's so much stuff that brings

1028
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,479
Speaker 5: mums together to find other mums, but for women without kids,

1029
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 5: there isn't that same thing. And what I wanted one

1030
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 5: of the things I wanted to do with the book

1031
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 5: was to kind of start to unite us, even just

1032
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 5: by having more people go hey, me over here, and

1033
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 5: what about me over here, and like what do we need?

1034
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 5: What kind of stuff would we like to do together?

1035
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 5: Like I can totally imagine a future where there are

1036
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 5: child free holiday vacation companies, and I don't know all

1037
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 5: sorts of things that actually cater to specifically to child

1038
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 5: free people. I did actually go on one of the

1039
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,280
Speaker 5: Virgin cruises over Christmas this year, and they are child

1040
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 5: free cruises. Oh okay, Well, everybody on board didn't have

1041
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 5: their kids with them, and I'm assuming that a fair

1042
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 5: number of them probably don't have children. So the other

1043
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 5: thing you might be interested to know, as much as

1044
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 5: it can feel like with our only ones in our groups,

1045
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 5: I think it's like almost fifty percent of women age

1046
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 5: seventeen to forty five in the US do not have children.

1047
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 5: So actually there are far more of us out there

1048
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 5: than you think. It might just take a little bit

1049
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 5: of looking around to find people, you know. I'm hosting

1050
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 5: a women without Kids retreat, like an in person retreat

1051
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 5: at Cropola and Massachusetts in the middle of June, for

1052
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 5: the express purpose of kind of giving people an opportunity

1053
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 5: to meet each other. But social media is a great

1054
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 5: place to find this plenty of kind of like child

1055
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 5: ree influences.

1056
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, only where to start, you know.

1057
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 8: And like I said, I'm very happy that they're having kids,

1058
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 8: but my group of friends to hang out with is

1059
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 8: just really dwindling. I've noticed that the communication between us

1060
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 8: is definitely at a blow because I'm just connecting differently

1061
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 8: than they are.

1062
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 3: And which makes sense.

1063
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 8: You know, their kids are having friends, they're getting older,

1064
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 8: they're getting more involved, so less need for me in

1065
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 8: their life. But at the same time, it's like, but

1066
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 8: I'm still part of their life. So unless it's for

1067
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 8: a sporting game or a holiday or a birthday, there's

1068
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 8: not too much for me to you know, hang around

1069
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 8: with them.

1070
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 3: So where do I start?

1071
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: Like, you know, go on my Instagram page and look

1072
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: at all the comments from women who are single, like

1073
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: on any of my child free videos, and go look

1074
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: at their profile. Where do you live.

1075
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:24,399
Speaker 3: I'm in New York.

1076
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, go, I mean that's half of my followers are.

1077
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 5: Fround zero ground zero without kids.

1078
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 6: They're everywhere.

1079
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:31,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, you can go out to anyone in the street

1080
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 5: and be like, hey, won want to hang out.

1081
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: It's going to be it's it's once you start, it's

1082
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: going to just be easier. It'll all come together. But

1083
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: I understand you're kind of like feeling at a crossroads.

1084
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: But literally, go on my Instagram page, find the people

1085
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: who are commenting about how great their lives are as

1086
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: single women, child free women, and look where they live

1087
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: and if they live near your area, reach out to them.

1088
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure what area of New York are you in.

1089
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 3: I'm about an hour north of the city.

1090
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: Okay, great, so and Ruby. It goes the same for

1091
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: Ruby Warrington. Go to her site. She all she talks

1092
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: about is child free and find women and go, hey,

1093
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: express your situation. You're gonna find so many people that

1094
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,879
Speaker 1: are in the same exact position as you that are like, oh, yeah,

1095
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: you're right. And also start going out alone a little bit.

1096
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:16,439
Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to do it all the time,

1097
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: but go to a bar if you get invited by, like,

1098
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: you know, one of your friends from school, another teacher,

1099
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: like say yes to things that you normally wouldn't say

1100
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: yes to, so you can come broaden your horizons and

1101
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: find out what else is happening out there.

1102
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll also connect you with there's a group of

1103
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: child free gals in New York specifically that are dear

1104
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 2: Chelsea fans.

1105
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: I will put you onto Oh Catherine, what the fuck?

1106
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: Why don't you just up with that?

1107
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 5: Hey, look, the unsung Sistered is out there. I'm actually

1108
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 5: moving back to New York at the end of the

1109
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 5: summer as well. I hear this from so many people,

1110
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 5: and I know there's such a hunger to meet other

1111
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 5: people to just socialize and hang out with, you know,

1112
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 5: who aren't like coming in baby vomit.

1113
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 3: Or comes with like a whole nother baggage and just.

1114
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 6: Kind of like sleep deprived. Yeah, exactly.

1115
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 3: It's not just the baby.

1116
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 8: It's the baby bag, it's the diapers, it's the toys,

1117
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 8: it's the pack and play.

1118
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, right, and I'm thinking about starting some

1119
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 5: kind of a regular meet up group. So if you

1120
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 5: go onto my Instagram and follow that, they'll be news

1121
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 5: about whatever that looks like in the future just as well.

1122
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 2: The last thing I'll say too is Bumble also has

1123
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: a friend mode, so you can actually turn it to

1124
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: I'm just looking for friends, see all kinds of friends.

1125
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 2: You're looking for female, child free whatever that.

1126
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,479
Speaker 1: I think that's really on your social media. It's fine

1127
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: to be like advertising that, you know what I mean,

1128
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: being like, Hey, I'm just here single, have no children,

1129
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: not looking for any, but it would love some other

1130
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: child free people to hang out with or whatever. Just

1131
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: get a little bit more creative, change up the kind

1132
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: of dynamic of your social structure, and I think it'll

1133
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: be easy. Your normal fun pretty like smart, You've got

1134
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: everything that people would want to be friends with.

1135
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 5: I heard someone say this to me just yesterday. I

1136
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 5: can't remember the exact quote, but it's kind of like

1137
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 5: when your friends have kids, they'll disappear for five years

1138
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,399
Speaker 5: and then they'll be back. So remember that first five

1139
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 5: years they're going to be very all consumed with the

1140
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 5: newness and the sleep deprivation and all of the things.

1141
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 5: And then the more independent their kids.

1142
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 6: Are, they'll be like, hey, where is she?

1143
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 3: Hi?

1144
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 5: Can we hang out? So, like, don't give up on

1145
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 5: don't give up on them just because they're not available

1146
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 5: to you now. You are living very different lives right now.

1147
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 5: But that's not going to be the case forever. Like,

1148
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 5: if there's a strong friendship, it's gonna last. If anything,

1149
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 5: I would say, give them moments to like, send them

1150
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 5: a funny meme, send them a nice voice note I'm

1151
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 5: thinking of you. Just let them know that you're there

1152
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 5: and that you could not that you appreciate that. Like

1153
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 5: they've got other stuff going on right now, but like

1154
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 5: you're here, and yes, see to hang and here for

1155
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 5: a cocktail if you want to forget that you've got

1156
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 5: kids for a night.

1157
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 6: You know where I am.

1158
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 5: You know, right, be that person in their life as well.

1159
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 8: Sure, you know, it's like the like the pendulum right now,

1160
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 8: it's swinging in the direction where we're not as close,

1161
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:57,919
Speaker 8: but yeah it could.

1162
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 3: It's going to swing swing back the other. But yeah,

1163
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 3: that's a good, great, excellent point as well.

1164
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: And they're going to also need your help because you're

1165
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: a teacher, so you're going to have for that they're

1166
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: going to need access to when their kids are growing up.

1167
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's already happening. Yeah, what do I

1168
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 3: do or where can I find? What do you suggest?

1169
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're right, Yeah, all great points to consider and

1170
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 8: just take in too.

1171
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and be loud about your child free stance so

1172
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: that you are attracting people that are also feeling that

1173
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: same way, you know, like that could be your thing, like, oh,

1174
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:29,919
Speaker 1: I'm child free and single, I'm looking for other child

1175
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: free people. Who else is?

1176
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 3: You know?

1177
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: And get activated that way. There's no shame in that game.

1178
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: It's good to pronounce what you're about.

1179
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 3: Taking your lead.

1180
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 8: You're normalizing it and it's like, yeah, maybe kids in

1181
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 8: a marriage isn't for me, and yeah, make it more known,

1182
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 8: normalize it.

1183
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: It's okay, Yes, cool.

1184
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 2: Well, Karen, you got your marching orders. I'll hook you

1185
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: up with the New York gals as well. Who are

1186
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 2: the dear tel.

1187
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, please, I would much appreciate that. Yes, right,

1188
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 3: thank you so much.

1189
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 6: We'll talk to you soon.

1190
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 4: Let us know how it goes.

1191
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much much.

1192
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: Bye, Honey, bye, thank you, Bye bye Ruby Bye. What

1193
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: a cute she is. I didn't know we had a

1194
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: fucking group of child free people. Can we do?

1195
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 7: No?

1196
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 2: Remember, they keep writing in be like, can you add

1197
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 2: me to the list? I told you, I told you.

1198
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: Where do they congregate?

1199
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 4: I actually don't know.

1200
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 2: I should check in with them, but I got like

1201
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: several of them together on an email thread and they're like, well,

1202
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: let you know how it goes, Bloper please, yeah, yes, yeah,

1203
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: I'll connect her. I knew she was East cousin, I

1204
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 2: didn't know if she was New York.

1205
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 4: So that's that's perfect.

1206
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 6: But let's take a.

1207
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 2: Quick break, and I actually have one more quick question

1208
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 2: for you when we come back, which is.

1209
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 4: Sort of the opposite of the question we just covered.

1210
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: And we're back.

1211
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 4: We're back.

1212
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Jen. Hey, girls, my name

1213
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 2: is Jen Cod and I'm seeking advice from a child

1214
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 2: free woman's perspective on how much I should really expect

1215
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 2: from my best friend when it comes to my children.

1216
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 2: We have been best friends for twelve years, and to

1217
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 2: this day, she prefers to not hang out if my

1218
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: boys are with me, ages ten and six. I definitely

1219
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 2: don't think they should be around every time we hang out,

1220
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 2: but she has never made any effort to bond with

1221
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 2: them or get to know them. I try my hardest

1222
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 2: to never cancel plans with her, but sometimes I ask

1223
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 2: if it's okay for the boys to come, and she

1224
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 2: reschedules every time. She does claim she wants kids, just

1225
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 2: not yet. But I don't understand why she doesn't want

1226
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 2: anything to do with mine, seeing as how they are

1227
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 2: such a big part of my life.

1228
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: Much love Jen, Okay, Well Jen, as the Devil's advocate,

1229
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: I would just say, are your boys of fucking pain?

1230
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: And they ask to hang out with a they ask

1231
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: yourself that question because maybe they are, Maybe they're very rambunctious.

1232
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: Maybe that really annoys her.

1233
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:53,399
Speaker 2: I don't know how old did she say at ten

1234
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 2: and six?

1235
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: So probably yeah, Like that's not for everyone. And while

1236
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: it's disappointing, and I would always make an effort for

1237
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: any one of my friends that have children, I not

1238
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: an effort to hang out with them, but an effort

1239
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 1: to know about them and get to know them, or

1240
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: you know, I don't need to be on playdates with them.

1241
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: I know it's your best friend and you want her

1242
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: to be more interested, but I don't think you can

1243
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: impose that upon her. Your life choices are not her

1244
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: life choices, and while you may want her to care,

1245
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: you can't control the way she feels about that. And

1246
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: maybe your kids are just not for her. Like, I

1247
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 1: don't know a lot of people that aren't mothers that

1248
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: want to hang out with a ten and six year

1249
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: old boy.

1250
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 2: I don't, especially ones that are not related to Technically, yeah, yeah,

1251
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 2: my friend has has two boys and she's one of

1252
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 2: my closest friends.

1253
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: She's never asked me to hang out with them. And

1254
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: it's not because I wouldn't. I would, but she's never

1255
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: asked me, So I just I don't think that that's

1256
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: a fair request. What do you think, Ruby, Yeah, well.

1257
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 5: I think that. I mean, I'll speak for myself. Some

1258
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 5: people just aren't good with kids. One of the I

1259
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 5: think one of the reasons I never wanted to have children,

1260
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 5: is I didn't really like being a child, Like I

1261
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 5: didn't even know how to be with kids when I

1262
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 5: was a kid, Do you know what I mean? Like,

1263
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 5: I I don't know, I just don't really know how

1264
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,479
Speaker 5: to talk to kids. I don't really know what they're

1265
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 5: interested in. I kind of clam up around kids, like

1266
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 5: I'm just not a kid person on any level. And

1267
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:15,280
Speaker 5: so yeah, it kind of like completely changes the dynamic

1268
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 5: of a friend.

1269
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 3: Hang.

1270
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 5: If I think I'm going to be spending the day

1271
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 5: with my friend and then her kids are there as well,

1272
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 5: because I just get really kind of self conscious and

1273
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 5: sort of like are we talking to them?

1274
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 6: And if so, what do we talk about?

1275
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 5: Because I've got no idea, And like there's also other

1276
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 5: stuff that could be going on under the surface, Right,

1277
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 5: it could be that I don't know, maybe your friend

1278
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 5: is would like to have children and can't for some

1279
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 5: reason that you guys haven't had time to discuss. And

1280
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 5: actually she doesn't really want to be in a situation

1281
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 5: where she's constantly reminded of the fact that she hasn't

1282
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 5: got there in her life yet. Like there's so many

1283
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 5: things that could be going on that are kind of

1284
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 5: resulting in this but yeah, I can understand how it

1285
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 5: might feel hurtful.

1286
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: It's a distraction also to hang out with two kids,

1287
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 1: Like then you're not really hanging with each other. It's

1288
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: all about the kids, So like that's take away from

1289
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: the friendship. And I understand she's saying once in a while,

1290
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: but I really don't think it's a it's a fair

1291
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: demand of your friend to want to hang out with

1292
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 1: your kids. You can't make somebody want to do something.

1293
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 2: And I think don't take it personally either, Like she's

1294
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 2: not doing it to.

1295
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 4: Be hurtful to you.

1296
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 2: She's just not interested in your kids. And I think

1297
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 2: that's okay, just seeing as time with her is time

1298
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 2: away from your kids. It's grown up time.

1299
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much, Ruby Warrington. I wish you

1300
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: so much success. Thank you for being our guest today.

1301
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, thank you for having me.

1302
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 6: I mean, honestly, Chelsea.

1303
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 5: After your Netflix special came out and then you produced

1304
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 5: your genius, genius Diary of a Child Free Women real,

1305
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 5: I literally was getting DMS and messages most days, several

1306
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 5: messages most days.

1307
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 6: Send Chelsea a copy of your book. Chelsea needs your book.

1308
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 6: So thank you.

1309
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 5: I'm so happy you've got the book and that you're

1310
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 5: reading it. To have had this conversation with you and

1311
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 5: have had the opportunity to answer some of your your

1312
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 5: reading questions today, it's been really great. Thanks.

1313
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has been Thank you so much.

1314
00:58:58,560 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 5: Bye.

1315
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 1: Okay. Second shows have been added for those of you

1316
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: coming to see my new stand up tour, which you

1317
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: have to come because I'm having the best time. We

1318
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: added a second show into Cincinnati, Los Angeles, which is

1319
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: actually October thirteenth. There are still tickets for October thirteenth

1320
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: show in Los Angeles. We added second shows in Chicago,

1321
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: the Chicago Theater at Portland, Oregon, San Francisco. They're both

1322
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: almost completely sold out. Detroit, Michigan, and then we added

1323
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: a second show in Cincinnati in the daytime at five

1324
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 1: o'clock PM. I'm doing my first show because I don't

1325
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: have a night where I can go back, so we

1326
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: added a second show at five pm, and the original

1327
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: show is at eight pm. Original show is sold out.

1328
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 1: Second show tickets are available Cincinnati. I'm also coming to

1329
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: Cleveland on October twentieth, and then I'll be in Columbus

1330
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:49,439
Speaker 1: October twenty first and Pittsburgh October twenty second. So those

1331
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: three shows I still have tickets available, and you can

1332
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 1: go to Chelsea Hamler dot com for other tickets and

1333
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: other information. And if you want to buy some of

1334
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: our merch, that's all available on Chelseahanmler dot com. And yeah, guys,

1335
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: I'll see you on the road.

1336
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 2: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email

1337
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 2: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be

1338
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 2: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited

1339
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 2: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law and

1340
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 2: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot

1341
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 2: com