WEBVTT - How Spies Work 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to you Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:12.600 Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.960 Josh Clark with me as always as Charles W. Chuck 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:21.480 Bryant in fast motion. Yeah. Um, and that makes us 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:25.240 the super fast episode of Stuff you Should Know on 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:30.960 spots super fast. It's going to be, um, not short. 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:33.920 We're just gonna be talking really fast like this pretty 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.360 much the whole time. I can pick up will you 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:40.519 all right? Uh? Yeah, spies like us? Yeah? Did you 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:44.880 like that movie? I did. I was raised too, just 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:50.000 like Chevy Chase really by whom my dad really yeah. Um, 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:51.879 and I don't think my mom liked him either, but 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:54.800 my dad definitely thought he was a jerk. His word 0:00:54.920 --> 0:01:00.200 was kind of a jerk and um yeah, apparently I 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:05.679 read um this Saturday Night Live biography about like the show. 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.720 It's pretty interesting. Um and they talked about how he 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.440 was the first one to um be able to develop 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:15.640 a cocaine habit because he was the first one to 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:19.959 start getting paid and apparently he didn't share really, so 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.039 that made him a jerk. I guess I don't think 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.640 that's one. My dad thought he was a jerk anyway. 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.959 I all apologies to Mr Chase if you listen to this. 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.520 I was I have always been a big man, have you. Yeah, 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.200 and I was very saddened when he his career kind 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.280 of faltered and I missed Chevy Chase. Well, okay, he's 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:40.120 on TV now though he's he's on the TV the community, right, Yeah, 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.240 is that it? He was on it. I don't know 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.919 if he still is, but he wants Yeah. I don't either. Um, 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.840 but no, I hated Fletch. I'm just gonna come out 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.720 and say, I hate that movie Fletch. I hate Fletch two, 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.600 I hate Fletch eight, I hate all the Fletches. I 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:58.600 think it's a stupid movie. And I hate Fletch. But 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.960 I did like funny far a lot. That's weird that 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.360 you hated Fledg. I hated Fletch. I still hate Fletch. 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:06.880 You can show me Fletch right now. I'd be like, 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.919 this is stupid, turn it off, so funny, so chuck. Yes, Uh, 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:13.960 you know a little bit about spies. I believe you 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.320 had a bit of a story to share with everyone. 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.000 A little bit. I mean, I was obviously spy. Stories 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.880 of real life spies are kind of fun and Um, 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:26.760 to me, the best all time story spy, real true 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:31.200 life spy story was the story of Christopher Boyce and 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.799 Dalton Lee The Falcon and the Snowman. Oh yeah, I've 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.239 never seen that movie of you. Yeah, it's a good yeah, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:40.720 really good Timothy Hutton and Sean Penn right, and um, 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.560 that is the story of these two guys who two 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:47.880 youngsters living in southern California, and Boyce was hired by 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:51.200 his father I think as a guard at an aerospace 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:55.079 firm called t RW Incorporated, and may um that gave 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.440 him access to a lot of U c. I A. 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:01.520 Documents that that we're working with the aerospace firm, they 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:03.840 were drug dudes. So he was like, hey, we can 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.320 raise like make a lot of money selling these secrets 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.519 to the Soviets down in Mexico City at their embassy, 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:15.160 make money for drugs to run a drug operation. And 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.919 they did so for like a year successfully a year 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.760 from seventy six to seventy seven. And we're caught, of course, 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:26.560 and jailed for espionage. And I had a little trouble 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.239 for some reason finding out the current status of Lee. 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.760 I did find out that boys actually escaped from prison 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.000 in nineteen eighty from Lompoc was picked up again in 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:41.040 eight one, I think, and then was released in two 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.600 thousand three and lives I think in the San Francisco area. 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.320 I've got this awesome l A Times article that I'm 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:49.520 going to read tonight for fun because it didn't have 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.400 a chance to read it read. Yeah, it's one of 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.480 those like fifteen page articles. His big interview he did 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.600 after he got released. But I can't find out what 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.640 happened to Lee aside from a room that he was 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:06.280 eventually released and Sean Penn hired him as his personal assistant, 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.920 and I don't know if that's true. Weird, I can't 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.920 verify that. I understand Sean Penn's like the real deal 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.680 when it comes to like um combating poverty in Haiti. 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.800 He's like in there in the trenches every day. He 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.720 is crazy. Some people think he's a jerk. I happen 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:24.320 to like the guy. I like the guy a lot. 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.000 Um So, Chuck, how did the Falcon and the Snowman 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:34.080 become spies? They were working or or Voice was working 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.480 at a at an aerospace firm as a night guard 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.760 and had access to sensitive documents. So why did he 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.599 start to make money. Okay, so that's actually one of 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:48.679 the main ways that a spy is recruited. Yeah, there's, um, 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.080 there's several nice intro by the way, dude, thank you. 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.479 That makes two times they are changing. Give me you're 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:58.480 a punch card. Okay, Um, the the There are a 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.680 few ways for a person become a spy. Probably the 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.520 most um straightforward way is to maybe join the army, 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:10.279 Army intelligence, joined the CIA right out of college, and 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.000 basically just join your country's intelligence agency, be trained and 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.680 then sent into the field, maybe posing as a diplomat 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.520 or being a diplomat. Yeah, apparently the line is very 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:24.279 um fuzzy between a person who's actually a diplomat and 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.040 a diplomat who's a spy. Really yeah, it's like one 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.440 and the same. I mean, they're still performing the same functions. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.440 They have a job as a diplomat, but they're also 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:38.040 just spying too. Um and what are they I guess 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:42.000 what's the basis of spying? Well, they're what they're after obviously, 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:43.640 and this is the no brainer stuff, But we always 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.880 have to point it out there after any valuable information 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.839 to give to the country that they're working for, any 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.719 kind of it's it's obviously usually military secrets, although we 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.479 will talk a little bit later about corporate spine, which 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:01.480 is huge yeah these days. Oh um, but you know, 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:05.960 typically people with access to these uh, either offices or 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:11.360 high ranking officials. Um, they do have recruiters that go out, 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.080 like you said, they'll then go a little money in 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.720 front of your face if they think that a person 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:20.680 is someone they can turn right, like, hey, you're not 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.400 happy with your own country. We know this, you want 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.080 to sell him out? Or we know you really like 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.320 money and you're kind of unscrupulous. Do you want to 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.000 sell him out? Right? Or we know your mother needs 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:36.440 surgery and your government insurance although the gold standard of 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:40.520 healthcare is American healthcare. It's part of the American system. 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.080 Therefore it's not going to really cover the surgery. So 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.560 here's some money, or hey, mom, the surgery. You want 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:50.120 a movie made after you about you, after you're executed. 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.960 You want to be famous, You want to feel important 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.440 because you're nobody. You want to be somebody once you 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:58.400 dig up some secrets for us, right, And that's actually 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.880 like a really good um recruiting tool or recruiting method 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.800 is to identify somebody who has a menial job, some 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:09.800 sort of file clerk, but has access to really sensitive information. Exactly, 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.040 go in and, like you said, pump them up. I mean, 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.960 I don't think you would actually say you're a nobody. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.840 You would maybe promise the um making them a somebody. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:20.440 You have to break him down before you build them 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.560 back up, you know, it depends, It depends on what 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:27.440 you're trying to do. UM. So those are the Oh 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:32.000 did you touch on ideological um disillusionment with your home country? Yeah, 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.400 a little bit, just you know, like communism obviously was 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.200 a big thing. Uh, yeah, we covered in McCarthyism. Yeah, 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.640 like the Rosenberg's they were at the very least communist 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:47.360 sympathizers who supposedly allegedly spied for the for the Communists. 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:49.480 By the way, did you see that email we got 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.120 about that. No, we got an email from a guy 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:54.160 in the Air Force that said there was a great 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.520 interview with I can't remember who it was that basically 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.040 said the Rosenberg's did have a lot more to do 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.240 with it than like at first it was like, oh, 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.280 they're guilty, guilty. Then later on, as we pointed out, 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:08.680 they're like, you know, they didn't exactly sell the deepest 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.000 dark kits of secrets and maybe they were made an 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.360 example of but then apparently more recent enew does implicate 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.080 them a little bit more to the extent that their 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.480 family even was like, oh, it's so weird for McCarthy 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:24.679 to be vindicated. Yeah, um, so you've got blackmail too. 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.200 Is a way of getting people to do what you want, Like, 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.200 we have these photos of you that you don't want published, 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.719 Like you clearly have a lampshade on your head, right, 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.640 and now you have to be a spy for US. Um. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.080 And then once you once you have the person agreeing 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.080 to spy. Oh there's also walk ins too, and I 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.840 think that might have been voices. Deal was an opportunist 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:47.760 who was like, Hey, I want to be a spy. 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.800 Who do I call about that? Exactly? And usually if 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.720 you're going to be a spy, um, you identify a 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.720 country who's probably got the most money or the most 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.800 desire for the information you have, and then you go 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:02.400 to their local embassy. I guess i'd be a good 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:03.800 way to do it. Yeah, you just walk right in. 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:08.800 But if you are that country's diplomat slash spies working 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.040 at the embassy, you're going to be immediately suspicious of 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.800 someone like that. Apparently the US had a Russian defector. 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.920 I can't remember. It may have been yeah, it may 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:29.440 have been the guy who's mentioned um no, oh like Penkovsky. Penkovsky. Um, 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:34.000 he was a Russian general. I believe Soviet general was 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.800 with the KGB, and I think he he was a 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.840 walk in. Wow, he made a secret trip to the 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.960 US and over years and years and years, like he 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.520 finally gained the trust of the Americans. He's like, look, 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:49.680 this is legitimate information stuff. Yeah. Ok yeah, well that 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:55.000 was like the height of spied them not quite so okay, yeah, 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.240 we'll get to that later. I read a recent article 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.520 that I can't wait. Yeah, there's like a lot more 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.440 going on now then you might believe. All right, so 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:08.640 you have a paid, blackmailed um or ideologically disenchanted spy. 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.520 Sure who you trust and you assign them a person 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:19.160 name a Controller Harvey Kitel probably yeah, yeah, yeah, Controller 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.920 is the person who I think they're They're just like 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.280 your only contact basically, right, who you're going to be 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.640 given the information to, yeah, or getting information or instructions from. 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.079 There's going to be one person you meet. Yeah, you 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.200 don't want a large You don't want your spy to 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.520 know a lot of people because they'll be compromised. There's 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:41.240 not a Christmas party, you know they should though, no 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.559 they shouldn't. They'd all to sit around and like look 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.839 at each other very wearily. There they don't make eye contact. Um. 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:52.320 The the the reason why they do this is called compartmentalization. Um, 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.800 because if the spy is caught, there's only so much 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.880 information they can give. Like, well, I was meeting a 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.920 Mr Orange that may or may not be his real name. 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.480 I never really saw his face and actually I never 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:09.160 met him. It was all handoff stuff park bench. Well 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.120 you're talking about, we might as well go ahead and 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.439 cover that. The drop, the dead drop, the dead drop 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.079 you see it in movies. Apparently it's real. You'll you'll 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.920 drop something in a public place very uh, nonchalantly, and 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.880 then send the signal that it's you know, been dropped 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.800 to your controller. Then they will go to the little 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.439 hidden loose brick in the public park wall and fish 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:36.600 out the micro film. Yeah, the micro film, the micro 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:41.240 dot maybe. Uh? What what has always struck me about 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:46.240 spy work or articles on spies and especially the gadgets 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.560 and technology they use. I always just assumed it's like 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.440 twenty years out of date. Yeah, me too. I was 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.800 reading this book called Veil by Robert Woodward, an excellent 0:11:55.840 --> 0:12:00.480 book about like Reagan's Secret Wars, really good book. And 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.199 they're talking about this this light beam, I guess, a 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.000 laser that you can point at a window and it 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:13.360 measures the vibrations from a conversation um and translates them 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.880 into audio. So it's an eavesdropping device that they were 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:21.600 using in the early sixties. You're talking about the laser emacs. 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:23.719 I am, well, they have these now. I'm sure when 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.199 that there are different ones. But yeah, it's an invisible 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.720 infrared beam hits the window that and records the vibrations, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.960 filters out all the gobbledygook, and then amplifies it and 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.200 records it. It's amazing and it's been around since the sixties. 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.679 What do you think they're doing now, Well, this is 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.840 the one that's available now, so it's probably just this slicker, 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.360 better version. Well, in the article I read too on 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:51.000 modern spy equipment, basically said just that is it's a 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.720 lot of the same stuff. It's just faster and smaller, 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:59.120 and uh, you know, digital, what's that one called this 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.240 is called the laser or EMACS. And the cool thing 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.160 is when you go to their website it said as 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:11.640 used by David Letterman and Jay Leno and Fox five Undercover. Weird. Yeah, 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.120 I guess they I don't know. I guess they've done 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.560 little bits where they spy on people. Well, I don't know. 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:21.000 Jay Leno spied on an NBC board meeting when they 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:22.360 were trying to figure out whether they we go with 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.520 Letterman or him to release Carson. Yeah, you got to 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.080 see that movie. I've seen it. I don't remember that though. Yeah. 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.560 Well he was just sitting in another room, like taking notes, 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.720 like in a closet right now, exactly. Okay, let's get 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:36.880 back to it. Man. You you have a controller, Your 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.760 spy is compartmentalized very much. Before you start doing dead 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.319 drops and everything, you don't want to get ahead of 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.240 yourself because your spy is gonna get greased. You have 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.640 to first create a cover and support it with the legend, right, 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.280 so it covers just like your secret identity or your 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.480 false identity, and then the legend is the backstory around it. Yeah, 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.320 and he's to be detailed and thorough right. So for example, um, 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:04.760 you are a UH. If you're into fishing, I think 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.920 the article uses it's a good good example. Um, or 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.680 you let your character is your cover is right, Um, 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.679 you're going to have fishing gear. And if you have 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.280 a that's part of the legend. You're gonna have fishing. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.360 The part the legend is that you are into fishing, 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.360 your fly fisherman big time. So then at your house, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.680 your apartment, whatever that's set up for you, you're gonna 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.280 have fishing equipment. And if you're good, it's going to 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.360 be used fishing equipment and it's going to be of 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:34.440 a certain um quality depending on whether your cover is 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:38.400 frugal or you know, kind of spendy or likes you know, 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:40.600 the best of the best. That's a good point about us. 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.640 Didn't even think about that. Oh yeah, that'd be like 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.880 a movie thing is the guy sees the apply fishing 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:46.600 gear and it's got a tag on it or something 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:53.640 or boom or both. Yeah. Yeah. Um. The if you are, 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.920 say a Russian accountant posing as a Russian accountant, you 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:04.280 probably should know the ins and outs of Russian tax law. Sure. Um. 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.240 You should also probably speak Russian with a Russian accent. 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:11.520 From the UH from the region that you're supposedly from 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.520 that your covers from. Yeah, you saw No Way Out? Right? 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:19.320 Is that the one with Kevin? Uh? What's his face? Yeah? No, 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.040 I didn't. Oh that's a good one. I've heard that 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.840 was like a couple of years ahead of my I 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.320 think I was watching Disorderlies while my family went and 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.800 saw No Way Out. Uh, I'm not gonna ruin that one. Actually, 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.080 I'm a spoiler guy, usually for movies that are like 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.120 fifteen years old. But um, I'm gonna leave that one 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.720 to the to the people to go see it, to 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.120 rent it or whatever, because it's got a nice little twist. 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.480 Um what else, chuck um. Oh, this is not a 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.840 quick thing. No, no, no. If you establish a cover, 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.360 it takes years to establish a cover. You're not gonna 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.840 waltz into the Russian uh, the Russian embassy and say hey, 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.960 I'm just a Russian accountant and where are your documents? 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.120 This is not a small camera in my tie. It 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.440 takes a long time, and people go it's like being 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.120 an undercover cop. You have to establish his trust over 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.840 a period of months and years. Even yeah, um, and 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:18.960 you're going to in the meantime be performing accounting. Yeah, 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.600 for as part of your business an you better be 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.680 good ahead, yeah, or the toast yeah. Or you could 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.400 go to jail for tax fraud. Wouldn't that be surprising? 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.840 That would definitely help your cover though, wouldn't you to 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.880 go to prison for the for the state? Yeah? Sure. Uh. 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.320 You are not going to be memorizing things, although in 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.520 a pinch, I'm sure they're probably trained to memorize a 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.320 certain amount of information. But what you really want to do, 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.400 and it is like in the movies, is to make 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:52.960 tiny little copies photo copies or photographs of sensitive documents 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.920 and relay those to your controller and then that ends 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.720 up on the micro film, the micro dot um or 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.280 it could even just you could make copies if you 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.000 are like that file clerk who has regular routine access 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.400 to that information, just make copies of it and take 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:11.800 it out of there. Yeah. And they had the little 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.520 handheld copiers. I've seeing those. Those are cool. Yeah, those 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.159 are pretty cool. What you don't want to do is 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:21.120 take anything, no, because then somebody might notice that exactly 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.679 the documents are missing, right, But you don't have to 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:25.840 listen to us. Your controller is going to tell you 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.560 how he or she wants that the information. Sure, and 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.320 there are plenty of female spies, so we definitely. UM 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.240 don't mean to say he a lot, but we're dudes. 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.080 I said here she yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Um, 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.920 I mean Valerie Plain she was a spy. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:46.360 very true. Um, it's not just on the ground either, 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.800 It's not just human spies. We've been using satellites for years, 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.000 since the nineteen sixty I believe. And the fact of 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.240 the show for me is that before the digital age, 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:00.200 the satellite would take photographs and I guess dropped them, 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.760 have developed them and drop them in a bucket in 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.639 the ocean. I think it was. It was undeveloped, the 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:10.480 film develop it. Yeah, it's like a photo mat up there. Yeah, 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:15.119 there's like some stoner up there inside developing pictures. Remember 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:19.320 the photo mat. What a bygone era that is. And 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:23.440 those stoners where are they working now? Not a video stores, 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:32.400 I think, so that's where I always see them they are. Um, 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.760 so they don't obviously have to drop them in the 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.320 ocean any longer. They can just relay them digitally and 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.600 they've actually been doing that since nine Yeah that's pretty cool. 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.760 So long before we were taking digital photos the government 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.400 and sending them wirelessly. Yeah, over radio. I think they 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.600 did it. Well, that's what wireless is. Radio. It's pretty 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.119 amazing it is. Um. So again that kind of proves 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.520 my point though, Chuck, I mean, like, what are we 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.400 on too? Now? I know it's faster, smaller, better, there's 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.840 got to be some cool stuff that like wasn't around 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.480 before though. Well, spy planes back in the day, um 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.040 were large, like the U two spy plane and it 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.679 would have to fly right over the enemy. These days, 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.000 of course, we have drones flying them while I'm not 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:19.880 flying themselves, but unmanned drones doing the dirty work, all 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:24.040 sorts of very dirty dirty work. That's right. Um. All 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.879 of this, Chuck is called technological intelligence or tech int. 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.119 I'll bet everybody at your work thinks you're a jackass 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.359 if you call it tech int. The CIA, they're like, 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.040 it's t I dude, right exactly, um, Or if you 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:40.919 want to just really be in on this link, just 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:47.080 t just t um. So you've got spy planes technically 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:51.760 at one point where t um satellites which now apparently 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:56.200 can read a headline on a newspaper. That's yeah, Well 0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:00.119 you see Google earth. Yeah, I mean my car and 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:01.959 my driveway was on it, and that was a little creepy. 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.440 I know, I had bird poop on the roof. Um, 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:10.920 there's like wire taps that whole laser listening listening device. 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.240 Do you do you want to talk about some more. Uh. 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:19.080 They have seismic equipment to detect nuclear testing. They have 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:23.080 underwater sensors to find things like submarines. Yeah, which is 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.120 a big deal. Again in Veil, which by the way, 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:29.119 I recommend um, they were talking about how back in 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:34.040 the day to eavesdrop on Russian cables, like the Soviets 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:38.320 didn't encrypt all of their stuff on certain cables that 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:44.200 were transmitted underwater, especially once that were close to the motherland, right, 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.920 So the US would send subs um to go and 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:53.639 clamp onto these um cables and listen for a few days, 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.119 and they were like right off the coast of the 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:01.000 USS are really dangerous work. And then they finally made 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.880 a recorder that they could go clamp on, drop off 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.800 and then leave for like a month or six months 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:08.320 or whatever, and then come back and get it. So 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.119 there's only like two windows where it was really scary, 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:14.080 rather than several days just having to sit there quietly 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.920 on the bottom of the ocean. Yeah. Uh, this isn't 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:20.119 new stuff. Um, that evolution of spy tools article I 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:24.080 read was like, have you ever read the Art of War? 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:30.640 What was it? Sun sues? So, Sun sue and uh 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:34.000 there are more than a hundred references to spies an 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.919 espionage intelligence gathering in the Art of War. I didn't know. 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:40.840 That is very old. And Uh. In the Revolutionary War 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:46.760 they would use invisible inc called Jay's Sympathetic stain was 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:51.200 apparently the best one to use, and they still uh 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:56.000 use or until recently, they still used invisible ink to 0:21:56.000 --> 0:22:00.560 transmit messages. It's crazy. You heat up certain things and 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:03.879 it will appear, or hold it under certain light. Lemon juice. 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.399 That's the old little crafty trick. How kind of this 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:12.160 ugly burnt sienna color doesn't But also if you look 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.080 at it, you can be like, oh, it's written in 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.679 lemon juice. I can see without even just by moving 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:19.720 the paper a little bit. I don't think it's real 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:24.359 bona fide spy stuff. Apparently the Spartans would spy and 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.879 they had a device called the skytail, and uh it 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:32.040 was a long slender rod which was wrapped with a 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:36.119 thin strip of papyrus, and the message was written on 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:38.879 the wrapping uh, and it was passed on to a 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:42.080 messenger and apparently it would could only be read if 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.960 it was rewound around a rod of the same diameter, 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:51.879 So it was sort of like an Enigma machine. Yeah, 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:54.479 there you go. Let's talk about that. Okay, have you 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:57.840 have you read Enigma? There's a book about this whole thing, 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:00.520 about the people who are cracking the code. But the 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:05.520 Nazis had this very very clever system of coding, encoding 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:09.840 UM or encrypting messages UM, where they would have what's 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:11.840 called an Enigma machine, which is kind of like a 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:16.000 random typewriter, that would assign him a code to a 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:19.960 message and it could only be decoded by a the 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:24.880