WEBVTT - Brett You Never Knew Me 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:04.200 Wisecrack is released weekly and brought to you absolutely free, 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:07.040 but if you want to hear the whole season right now, 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:11.119 it's available ad free on Tenderfoot Plus. For more information, 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:16.280 check out the show notes enjoy the episode. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.240 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:25.200 those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.400 and do not represent those of iHeartRadio, Tenderfoot TV, or 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:33.360 their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.960 not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:44.360 Previously on Wiscrack, I at Hedges somehow became the center 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.000 of a true crime podcast, which frankly was not on 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.919 my five year plan. Jody came to my village. I 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.840 tried to act call she made my family. Oh no, 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.480 she didn't make my family. That was my grandparents. She 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:59.960 met my family. I panicked and made everyone tea that 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.840 no one asked for. Then I stood in the corner 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.240 like a lamp. My parents confirmed everything I'd said on stage, 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.520 so that was validating and also deeply, deeply awkward. I 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.919 didn't need therapy before. I think we're heading there now anyway. 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:17.160 JODI's still digging. Next up meeting Brett's dad. I tried 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:19.640 to warn her about him, using only my eyes and 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.280 a secret blinking language that I didn't teach her about 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.000 before we went. She didn't pick up on it. It's 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:36.959 her podcast, I guess onwards and upwards? Hi, how are you? 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:38.880 How are you? 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:41.000 I'm in the UK. 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.440 Did you have a chance to read the report? One 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.760 of the first documents I got my hands on was 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.800 the Domestic Homicide Report. There isn't an official equivalent in 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.800 the US, and it's only created in the UK when 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.960 there is a long history of violence or abuse when 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:04.400 society demands to know how did this happen? In Brett Rogers' report, 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.320 it examines his entire life and was conducted by investigating 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.160 all the government agencies that were supposed to support and 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:15.120 assess him, everything from the education system to the parole board. 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.680 What did you think? Yes, I read it. 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.600 I sent this report over to my friend Aaron, a 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:28.160 twenty year veteran of social work in Georgia. She focuses 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.560 on at risk young adults with mental health issues diagnosed 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.880 or not. Though our systems are different from the UK. 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.920 I was hoping she could see something I couldn't, especially 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.920 when it came to Brett's biggest advocate, his father, Pete Rogers. 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.880 So it's just that's again a little bit of why 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:52.600 I'm nervous for you of being around his dad. I'm 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.600 not sure, like clearly none of that. I'm not sure 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.000 that was in the report about how dad or past behaviors. 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.720 I've just worked in the field for so long that, yes, 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.080 some of it is biological and the brain does different things, 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.480 and if he hasn't been diagnosed, that's one thing. But 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.160 there is also a learned behavior that comes along with 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:16.200 this where most people get it from where they live 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:17.359 and what they see the most. 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.600 What do you think this is? 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.720 So you're saying this isn't safe, I. 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.880 Personally would not go there, or please bring someone with you. 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.520 Oh gosh, now I'm nervous. Can you please be careful? 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:44.600 The thing was, I was already on my way. I'm 0:03:44.680 --> 0:04:06.680 Jody Tovey and this is wisecrack to episode five Brett 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:15.520 you never knew me. On the drive to Pete's house, 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:20.520 I'm silent ed keeps looking over. He senses I'm nervous 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.560 and responds with wise cracks and one liners. But I 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.359 want to stay focused on the task at hand. The 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.080 truth is the thought of meeting the father of a 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.719 convicted murderer has me on edge. Out of respect for 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.240 the subject matter, I ask ed if he can wait 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:40.680 in the car while I interview Pete. Though it confuses him, 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.800 he agrees, and I take a deep breath and walk 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:52.880 up the front steps and knock on the door. Pete, Hi, 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:58.560 I'm Jody. Nice to meet you. How's it going. I'm good, good, 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:03.680 good good. Room in Marklas that is fine, keeps one 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.359 bedroom is the bottom floor of a converted townhouse in 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.000 the next village over. It looks a lot like the 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.800 Hedges Home, only split in half for those who don't 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:17.480 need room for a full family. All right, lovely, okay, 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:21.240 thank you so much. The apartment is simple and unassuming, 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.120 pared down to the needs of a retired electrician. He 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.920 greets me in shorts and a loud printed shirt like 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.599 an old surfer. I can tell he's nervous too, but 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.480 he calmly smiles as he shows me his place, which 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:39.240 includes his music collection and his new hobby, an acoustic guitar. Uh, 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:43.440 we have a musician in the house. What were we 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:49.040 listening to? There's so much I want to ask Pete 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.000 about that night, about what he thinks about his son, 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.560 about how he's continued to move on. But once we 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:57.920 sit down, I just want to work my way into 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:01.000 a conversation by starting simple. So I asked about his 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:02.200 other son, Aaron. 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.560 He's a bit like me, actually, He's like, he's very 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:13.720 very soft, he's very clever actually, And I said, well, 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.480 I say it self, he's sort of like he's a 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.400 nice kid. Everyone says that, you know, everyone says that. Bear. 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.200 You know what about Brett? Was he an easy kid 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:23.600 as well or a difficult kid? 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.040 Well, it was always naughty Brett. He was always naughty. Yeah, 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.320 that was you know, that was his character, wasn't it. 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.200 You know he was full of life, full of life. 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.599 And he's like, yeah, he was always out there playing. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:40.360 He would even play. The older kids would even follow him. 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:42.920 He was good at football, He was good at sports. 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.039 He was very popular, I would say, one of the 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:48.120 most popular in school. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:51.120 When did that friend group start to shrink? 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.320 I believe when he stopped football, which is at mumby 0:06:55.360 --> 0:07:01.080 of thirteen something like that. Yeah, he is about that then, 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:01.800 I think, you know. 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.080 Pete continued to walk me through Brett's childhood which includes 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.480 his divorce from Jillian and when Brett was a teenager. 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:11.880 He tells me about Brett's early run ins with the law, 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.400 eventually leading to one of the worst days of Pete's 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:19.040 life and perhaps the incident that sealed Brett's fate in 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:23.080 the years that followed, and he. 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.760 Did get a job. He got a job as a milkman, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:29.120 which was great. He was only good money. He was 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.640 only his own money. That lasted about a month until 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.880 we had a problem with me where he went out 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.360 to he was on his bike. He was always leaving 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.840 his wallet in his back pocket. Likely youngsters, do you know, 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:47.080 lost his wallet? Come home and I was sitting there actually, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.440 and he went out there and make himself signing to eat, 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:57.480 and he started calling me names again, you know, one 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.400 of them they just flip. You see. I know this 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.960 sach funny going on, but I didn't know about it 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:07.880 then enough about it, and so I said, look, go 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.680 and take a walk, take a walk in the blog, 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:16.200 come back and calm down. So he decided to attack me. 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:22.360 So I slipped and he might eye on that on 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:22.920 the corner. 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:26.800 Pete points to an area where furniture used to be. 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.000 It's worth noting that when Pete quote slipped, he hit 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.080 the furniture so hard he broke open his eye socket. 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.600 Anyway, go long story short. The police come around. They 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:44.520 said to me, don't worry, it's a family thing. We 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.880 won't get much time in that, you know, but he's 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:52.840 going to get prosecuted, so we want your statement. So okay, 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.080 I gave him my statement. Then they tried to give 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.520 him seven years a family thing, So they tricked me. 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:03.360 You know, tricked is a heartbreaking choice of words. I 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.240 can tell Pete is struggling with memories of Brett. He's 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:10.080 still grieving, still asking what if things could have been different. 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:14.680 As much as his reasoning is strained, I also understand it. 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.080 But they give him five years in the end, then 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.240 he came out into about two and a half something 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.920 like that. I thought he needed to be prosecuted. I 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:29.640 thought he needed to but to give him five years 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:32.480 was like ridiculous. Really, But they're saying the law works, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:38.199 you know, Yeah, they tricked me. I think don't want 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:39.960 to have a little tick on their box, the police. 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.240 You know, I'm not saying it all like that. I'm 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.440 just saying that that's the why it worked. At that point. 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.760 M h, and so is that what it was like 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:50.960 when he was staying here with you? It was just 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.480 a switch that would flip seemingly. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.400 That's the first time it happened. Yeah, because I would 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:58.480 try to understand him. 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.320 You see, I can imagine being a dad and watching 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.160 your son change behaviors so dramatically. 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.920 It's not nice, not well, I didn't understand what was happening. 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:11.160 I dedn'ty I'm just schizophra any you. 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.839 Know, this is the first time I've heard this word 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:19.599 allowed to describe Brett, and I'm a little stunned, but cautious. 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.280 Pete's casual use of the term makes me wonder if 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.560 he's using the clinical definition of the disease. Schizophrenia is 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.560 one of the most complex mental illnesses, affecting how a 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.040 person thinks, feels, and behaves. It can cause someone to 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.000 hear or see things that aren't there, believe things that 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.880 aren't true, or feel confused about what's real and what's not. 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.600 It's also one of the hardest to diagnose, because no 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.760 test exists. In men, symptoms tend not to appear until 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.960 their early twenties, and then, once recognized, a constellation of 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.880 traits must be diagnosed, but that requires a consistent schedule 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:01.560 with medical professionals to uncover. Simply put, it takes time 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.400 to see the pattern. To be clear, Brett was never 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.400 diagnosed with schizophrenia, but in hindsight Pete believes he suffered 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:13.720 from it. And remember, in prison, Brett was prescribed antipsychotics 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.280 intended to treat schizophrenia. 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:20.160 And then he became eighteen or seven, not sixteen. When 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:24.040 you stop, you stop having any power over him, you know, 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.920 then you're lost because you can't do anything. The doctor 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.400 won't talk to you. That's sort of thing. 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.200 Due to British age of consent laws, Pete wasn't allowed 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.920 to talk to the doctors about his son's mental health 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:42.640 after he turned sixteen. It's a frustrating law, paradoxical because 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:46.120 those late teenage years are exactly when symptoms start to show. 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.520 After Brett was released from prison, it said the family 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.000 felt like things were better and that the fact that 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:58.000 these murders had occurred it seemed out of the blue. 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.960 And I'm just curious when he that out of prison, 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.800 can you describe his behavior, like did it feel out 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:05.200 of the blue? 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.840 Is that acting you come out of prison, you know, 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:09.960 her to stay he had to go and see his 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.360 probation officer. That the probation office was on holiday, bless her, 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.560 so he couldn't see her. So there's a big thing 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:18.880 going on there, like, oh what do I see? Then 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:23.480 where do I go? There's no way they could give 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.600 him anywhere to stay, so he's out on the street. 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.880 He's not allowed to stay with me, even though I 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:34.439 wrote him a really good letter saying, how I understand 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.000 better what's going on, and I think things would be 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:42.160 fine and all the rest of it, you know. So 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.000 we put him up in one of these. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.679 Like like a hotel or a hotel or something. 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:50.880 Yeah, that's for about a week or so. And I 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.319 thought we can't keep doing this. So her sister tool like, 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:56.520 you know, she said, well, he can't stay here, you know, 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.240 blah blah blah. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.120 Once the parole board had forbidden Brett to live under 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.000 his father's roof and Gillian had agreed to take in 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:08.120 her son, Pete had some unsolicited advice for his ex wife, 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.520 and it was absolutely horrifying to hear him say it. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.000 I decide to her, get your knives or what does 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.520 sharp knives and put them away put him somewhere else. 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.480 You had warned Jillian to take away those knives. Was 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:39.360 that because you knew that he was dangerous or because 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.679 he had threatened before to like use weapons because. 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:44.400 I know there was a risk. It's as simple as that. 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.440 I know there was something not right. There was not 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.720 something not right. You know, sat in his room when 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.480 we put him in a hotel and he said, I 0:13:53.600 --> 0:14:00.360 want you to go now. So he's getting ally, you know, wrong, 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.280 didn't they? You know? You just get to know that. 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:10.800 The moment is both bone chilling and bittersweet. Brett, self aware, 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.319 is telling his father to leave the room and get 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:17.400 to safety before another psychotic episode takes hold of him. 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.720 So you weren't surprised, No. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:25.880 No, I wasn't surprised the whole thing happening, you know, 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.920 But merely and truly it didn't surprise me. 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:37.560 This confession is staggering. Pete Rogers is telling me, pure 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.120 and simple that he knew Brett was capable of something 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.800 like this. With that weight hanging between us, now's the 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:48.040 time to ask how did he react when he heard 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.960 his son murdered his former wife? 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.480 Well, Averon found me and a found He said, people 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.640 are saying sorry about this and sorry about that, and 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.440 I didn't know what he was talking about. And then 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.760 I started getting messages and I went around there basically 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:06.000 to see what was going on. I sort of knew something, 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.280 something really bad had happened, you know so, And I 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.400 don't know. They never told me. No, they keep storm, 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:16.520 don't they. They just said, like, you know, the incident. 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:20.720 It's an incident. Basically, it's a weird feeling because like 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:25.600 you're in shock, and life goes on and even a 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.960 little bit of shock, and you don't really know what 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:29.320 to do. 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:35.200 Pete. Having now met you, I think you're you seem 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:39.160 like such a well adjusted kind person. How were you 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.960 able to get through this? How have you been able to? 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:42.920 Well? 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.040 If you're in stand and hold a house and a 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.440 job and play guitar. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.120 Well you do. This comes in as years go by, 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:57.480 don't it. I took a you onion analyst who's a local, 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.720 and I sat with her for probably once a week, 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.920 you know, more or less, for about five or six years, 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:10.760 and eventually got to where I want to be. I 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.880 guess sometimes you're all jumbled up in your head, aren't you, 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.240 And you just go ahead and do things anyway, you know. 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.040 But it gives you that space to sort of like 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:26.120 sort of segregate things a little bit and make the 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:30.680 right decisions basically. And me, for me, I am in 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:35.880 the winter. I generally take antidepressants for any a small amount, 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.960 a small amount, but recently I've taken a bit more. 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:43.880 I've taken them in the summer. And basically I realized 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.640 that I've needed them for years. I've needed them for 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:52.040 because I've noticed that if depression comes upon you, you don't 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.800 really know it unless you've been there, and you think 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.800 this is life. And when you get something that lifts 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.000 you that little bit, you think, well, this is how 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:06.280 it's supposed to be, you know, And so you can 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.919 manage your life like that if you have them problems, 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.320 you know. Yeah, And that's the way I'll get through it. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.800 And I'd also like to like to laugh and have 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:18.480 a joke, you know. 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.400 My head went back to my friend Aaron's analysis. Of course, 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.400 she's never met Pete Rogers. She'd only reviewed the domestic 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:32.679 homicide report. But Aaron had nothing to worry about. In 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.040 front of me sat a docile, polite man who openly 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:39.000 discussed the worst night of his life. With a complete stranger. 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.159 As we start to wrap up questions about Brett, Pete 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.200 fairly asks for some clarity on the direction of the podcast. 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.399 You've told me that you're here to do a podcast 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:57.760 on Edward because he's an up and coming comedian, and 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:02.080 he's also done a gig on that something involves that 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:08.359 it may involve my one of my sons, and you 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:14.359 seem very interested in my son, and so it does 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:16.120 seem a bit over the top for you to come 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:20.840 all away over here to do a podcast on a comedian. 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:22.000 It does to me. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:29.359 So ed talks about in his story is how he 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.160 was home the night that on July twenty second when 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.879 everything happened, and he said that he came home he 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.679 was doing a stand up set here in town or 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.639 at Ugly Village Hall, and it was John and Carroll, 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.040 his parents, both in the house, and they woke up 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.800 to banging, and they think that Brett was trying to 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.679 get into the house. That's what they believe. Did you 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:52.880 ever hear that before. 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.800 I've never heard that before, apart from yourself saying that 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.480 I don't know. The first I knew about anything was 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:04.760 in the morning. 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.480 Do you believe that happened that Brett went and tried 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.199 to break into their house that night, and this is 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:12.320 presumably after he had killed Jill and Dave. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.200 Well, I wouldn't like to say it didn't happen, because 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.560 I mean, it could have happened, couldn't it? Because the 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.520 boy didn't know what he was doing? Really did he? 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.159 If it happened, why do you think he would go 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:26.119 to the Hedges house? 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.040 It wouldn't I don't think. No, it won't be the 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.840 hobbyist thing that I would think he would do. But 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:38.520 who knows? Because someone with their mind scrambled like that. 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:44.320 You can't blame someone who's got mental health issues like 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:49.800 that anyway, and they're not to blame. Really, it's just circumstances. Really, 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.959 you know, that's all it is. You get nowhere from 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:55.000 blame like that anyway? 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:55.240 Do you. 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:00.919 Recognizing this as a chance for Ed to shar his perspective? 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.719 On that night, I shoot him a text asking if 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:09.320 he wants to come in, how you been? 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.439 Was it all right? You're everything? 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:14.760 Fine? 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:17.679 Cool? Lovely? 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.080 How much is I don't obviously I don't know what 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.120 I've come what I'm coming into. How much has been 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:24.000 explained to you? 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:33.000 Because six week podcast six podcasts approximately sounds rough? It okay? Cool? 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.280 So all right, do you know what happened that night 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.440 with the house? We might have been for guns? Do 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.120 you want me to tell you what happened from our side? 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:48.640 Just to kill you in So, I became a comedian, 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.320 did gigs all over the place. But then when I 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:57.119 left stance did I didn't come back like ever because mates, 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.800 I didn't really want So when I came back, I 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:01.760 do you know ugly village? 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:03.280 All yeah, they had me. 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.080 Do I pack up my stuff and watch this reunion, 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:08.679 a decade in the making, unfold out of the corner 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.600 of my eye. It takes me back to the years 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:15.000 when your friend's parents were just shapes and faces. You 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.840 never thought about their lives, their worries, their fears. You 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.119 were just a kid, But they watched you play together 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.679 in the yard, ride bikes on the sidewalk, sheer meals 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:31.000 at each other's tables. In this instance, neither family imagined 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.880 how it would end. One of those kids would become 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:38.239 a celebrated comedian. The other would become the subject of 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:40.359 every whispered conversation in town. 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:43.359 When you hear I'm a comedian and when you hear 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.600 I was talking about this, you first thought it was like, 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:47.520 why the fuck are you making jokes about that? 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.760 Whether there's a line there, haven't there, but I don't know. 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:52.840 I've never heard it show or no. 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.320 So the way the way I did it was, if 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.000 you think of the show, the story that I told 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.760 in like one hundred percent, eighty percent of it was 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.440 the village, me growing up, going to school, stupid people 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.520 in the village. The last bit was about Brett because 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:09.200 obviously me and Brett had some runnings and yeah, I 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:11.680 didn't know it. And the whole show was about me saying, 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:15.760 there's this bullshit thing that I think all men do 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.359 when we hit thirty, where your father or husband and 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:22.240 you've got to be like flawless. You've got to get 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:24.159 your money, you got to protect your a lot. You 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:29.080 can't show any weakness at all, and that pressure fucks people. 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:33.440 It just rocks people away because if you can't if 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:35.920 you can't show any weakness at all, if a guy 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:38.640 can't turn around to his mates and be like, really 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:40.240 not happy with my job, really not happy with what's 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:43.000 going on, I'm not in a good place. I'm struggling 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:44.560 at the moment, and I feel like if we didn't 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:46.560 have that, and if Brett was in the situation he 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:48.679 was in, he could have turned around and been like, 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.440 I'm not good right now. If there was no shame 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:56.520 around it, he could have got help. Because my stance 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:58.440 on it is it ain't Brett's fault. 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:03.440 Good time, so that the ones that keeping. 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:06.840 Their memories definitely I taken everything. He just told Pete 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:11.199 Rogers something that felt like a long winded confession. Or 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:14.359 maybe it was just his nerves kicking in saying what 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:16.239 he knew Pete would want to hear a way to 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:20.040 justify his comedy. Either way, it was the first time 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:21.040 I'd heard any of it. 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:25.600 Pete, thank you so much, thanks your tom speech to 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:26.160 say us. 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:32.000 And as we say goodbye to Pete, I wondered how 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.880 much Ed believed what he actually said, and it got 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:38.760 me thinking there was one person in the story that 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:42.960 I hadn't interviewed yet asked the hard questions one on one, 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:47.160 Ed Hedges himself. How much of the truth did he 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.880 not know? Had he not faced had he taken any 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:53.639 liberties with the story that he still had not shared 0:23:53.680 --> 0:24:02.639 with me? In the car, I check into my flight 0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:05.840 back to Atlanta. I decided to follow up on a 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:09.119 few final loose ends before I left Stanstead, and Ed 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:11.800 was cool to drive me around the village, but the 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:21.760 quaint friendliness of this place was quickly wearing off. I 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:24.359 went to Ed's cricket club to interview his old coach, 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:27.840 Keith Ayres, the one so proud he'd given Ed an award. 0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:31.800 I didn't say anything you no, I don't think you're 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:32.600 gonna get anything from me. 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:35.960 But we were met with nothing but icy glares and 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:40.720