1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Wisecrack is released weekly and brought to you absolutely free, 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: but if you want to hear the whole season right now, 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: it's available ad free on Tenderfoot Plus. For more information, 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: check out the show notes enjoy the episode. 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 2: and do not represent those of iHeartRadio, Tenderfoot TV, or 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 2: not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 3: Previously on Wiscrack, I at Hedges somehow became the center 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 3: of a true crime podcast, which frankly was not on 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 3: my five year plan. Jody came to my village. I 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 3: tried to act call she made my family. Oh no, 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 3: she didn't make my family. That was my grandparents. She 15 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 3: met my family. I panicked and made everyone tea that 16 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: no one asked for. Then I stood in the corner 17 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 3: like a lamp. My parents confirmed everything I'd said on stage, 18 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 3: so that was validating and also deeply, deeply awkward. I 19 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,919 Speaker 3: didn't need therapy before. I think we're heading there now anyway. 20 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 3: JODI's still digging. Next up meeting Brett's dad. I tried 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 3: to warn her about him, using only my eyes and 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 3: a secret blinking language that I didn't teach her about 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 3: before we went. She didn't pick up on it. It's 24 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 3: her podcast, I guess onwards and upwards? Hi, how are you? 25 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 4: How are you? 26 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 5: I'm in the UK. 27 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: Did you have a chance to read the report? One 28 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: of the first documents I got my hands on was 29 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: the Domestic Homicide Report. There isn't an official equivalent in 30 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: the US, and it's only created in the UK when 31 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: there is a long history of violence or abuse when 32 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: society demands to know how did this happen? In Brett Rogers' report, 33 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: it examines his entire life and was conducted by investigating 34 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: all the government agencies that were supposed to support and 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: assess him, everything from the education system to the parole board. 36 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 5: What did you think? Yes, I read it. 37 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: I sent this report over to my friend Aaron, a 38 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: twenty year veteran of social work in Georgia. She focuses 39 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: on at risk young adults with mental health issues diagnosed 40 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: or not. Though our systems are different from the UK. 41 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: I was hoping she could see something I couldn't, especially 42 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: when it came to Brett's biggest advocate, his father, Pete Rogers. 43 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 5: So it's just that's again a little bit of why 44 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 5: I'm nervous for you of being around his dad. I'm 45 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 5: not sure, like clearly none of that. I'm not sure 46 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 5: that was in the report about how dad or past behaviors. 47 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 5: I've just worked in the field for so long that, yes, 48 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 5: some of it is biological and the brain does different things, 49 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 5: and if he hasn't been diagnosed, that's one thing. But 50 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 5: there is also a learned behavior that comes along with 51 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 5: this where most people get it from where they live 52 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 5: and what they see the most. 53 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: What do you think this is? 54 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 3: So you're saying this isn't safe, I. 55 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 5: Personally would not go there, or please bring someone with you. 56 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 5: Oh gosh, now I'm nervous. Can you please be careful? 57 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: The thing was, I was already on my way. I'm 58 00:03:44,680 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: Jody Tovey and this is wisecrack to episode five Brett 59 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: you never knew me. On the drive to Pete's house, 60 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: I'm silent ed keeps looking over. He senses I'm nervous 61 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: and responds with wise cracks and one liners. But I 62 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: want to stay focused on the task at hand. The 63 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: truth is the thought of meeting the father of a 64 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: convicted murderer has me on edge. Out of respect for 65 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: the subject matter, I ask ed if he can wait 66 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: in the car while I interview Pete. Though it confuses him, 67 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: he agrees, and I take a deep breath and walk 68 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: up the front steps and knock on the door. Pete, Hi, 69 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: I'm Jody. Nice to meet you. How's it going. I'm good, good, 70 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: good good. Room in Marklas that is fine, keeps one 71 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 1: bedroom is the bottom floor of a converted townhouse in 72 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: the next village over. It looks a lot like the 73 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: Hedges Home, only split in half for those who don't 74 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: need room for a full family. All right, lovely, okay, 75 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: thank you so much. The apartment is simple and unassuming, 76 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: pared down to the needs of a retired electrician. He 77 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: greets me in shorts and a loud printed shirt like 78 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: an old surfer. I can tell he's nervous too, but 79 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: he calmly smiles as he shows me his place, which 80 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: includes his music collection and his new hobby, an acoustic guitar. Uh, 81 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: we have a musician in the house. What were we 82 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: listening to? There's so much I want to ask Pete 83 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: about that night, about what he thinks about his son, 84 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: about how he's continued to move on. But once we 85 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: sit down, I just want to work my way into 86 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: a conversation by starting simple. So I asked about his 87 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: other son, Aaron. 88 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 4: He's a bit like me, actually, He's like, he's very 89 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 4: very soft, he's very clever actually, And I said, well, 90 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 4: I say it self, he's sort of like he's a 91 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 4: nice kid. Everyone says that, you know, everyone says that. Bear. 92 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: You know what about Brett? Was he an easy kid 93 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: as well or a difficult kid? 94 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 4: Well, it was always naughty Brett. He was always naughty. Yeah, 95 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 4: that was you know, that was his character, wasn't it. 96 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 4: You know he was full of life, full of life. 97 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 4: And he's like, yeah, he was always out there playing. 98 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 4: He would even play. The older kids would even follow him. 99 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 4: He was good at football, He was good at sports. 100 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 4: He was very popular, I would say, one of the 101 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 4: most popular in school. 102 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: When did that friend group start to shrink? 103 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 4: I believe when he stopped football, which is at mumby 104 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 4: of thirteen something like that. Yeah, he is about that then, 105 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 4: I think, you know. 106 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: Pete continued to walk me through Brett's childhood which includes 107 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: his divorce from Jillian and when Brett was a teenager. 108 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: He tells me about Brett's early run ins with the law, 109 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: eventually leading to one of the worst days of Pete's 110 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: life and perhaps the incident that sealed Brett's fate in 111 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: the years that followed, and he. 112 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 4: Did get a job. He got a job as a milkman, 113 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 4: which was great. He was only good money. He was 114 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 4: only his own money. That lasted about a month until 115 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 4: we had a problem with me where he went out 116 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 4: to he was on his bike. He was always leaving 117 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 4: his wallet in his back pocket. Likely youngsters, do you know, 118 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 4: lost his wallet? Come home and I was sitting there actually, 119 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 4: and he went out there and make himself signing to eat, 120 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 4: and he started calling me names again, you know, one 121 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 4: of them they just flip. You see. I know this 122 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 4: sach funny going on, but I didn't know about it 123 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 4: then enough about it, and so I said, look, go 124 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 4: and take a walk, take a walk in the blog, 125 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 4: come back and calm down. So he decided to attack me. 126 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 4: So I slipped and he might eye on that on 127 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 4: the corner. 128 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: Pete points to an area where furniture used to be. 129 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: It's worth noting that when Pete quote slipped, he hit 130 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: the furniture so hard he broke open his eye socket. 131 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 4: Anyway, go long story short. The police come around. They 132 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 4: said to me, don't worry, it's a family thing. We 133 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 4: won't get much time in that, you know, but he's 134 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 4: going to get prosecuted, so we want your statement. So okay, 135 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 4: I gave him my statement. Then they tried to give 136 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 4: him seven years a family thing, So they tricked me. 137 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: You know, tricked is a heartbreaking choice of words. I 138 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: can tell Pete is struggling with memories of Brett. He's 139 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: still grieving, still asking what if things could have been different. 140 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: As much as his reasoning is strained, I also understand it. 141 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 4: But they give him five years in the end, then 142 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 4: he came out into about two and a half something 143 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 4: like that. I thought he needed to be prosecuted. I 144 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 4: thought he needed to but to give him five years 145 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 4: was like ridiculous. Really, But they're saying the law works, 146 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 4: you know, Yeah, they tricked me. I think don't want 147 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 4: to have a little tick on their box, the police. 148 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 4: You know, I'm not saying it all like that. I'm 149 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 4: just saying that that's the why it worked. At that point. 150 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: M h, and so is that what it was like 151 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: when he was staying here with you? It was just 152 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: a switch that would flip seemingly. 153 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 4: That's the first time it happened. Yeah, because I would 154 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 4: try to understand him. 155 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: You see, I can imagine being a dad and watching 156 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: your son change behaviors so dramatically. 157 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 4: It's not nice, not well, I didn't understand what was happening. 158 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 4: I dedn'ty I'm just schizophra any you. 159 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 1: Know, this is the first time I've heard this word 160 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:19,599 Speaker 1: allowed to describe Brett, and I'm a little stunned, but cautious. 161 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: Pete's casual use of the term makes me wonder if 162 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: he's using the clinical definition of the disease. Schizophrenia is 163 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: one of the most complex mental illnesses, affecting how a 164 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: person thinks, feels, and behaves. It can cause someone to 165 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: hear or see things that aren't there, believe things that 166 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: aren't true, or feel confused about what's real and what's not. 167 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: It's also one of the hardest to diagnose, because no 168 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: test exists. In men, symptoms tend not to appear until 169 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: their early twenties, and then, once recognized, a constellation of 170 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: traits must be diagnosed, but that requires a consistent schedule 171 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: with medical professionals to uncover. Simply put, it takes time 172 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: to see the pattern. To be clear, Brett was never 173 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: diagnosed with schizophrenia, but in hindsight Pete believes he suffered 174 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: from it. And remember, in prison, Brett was prescribed antipsychotics 175 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: intended to treat schizophrenia. 176 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 4: And then he became eighteen or seven, not sixteen. When 177 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 4: you stop, you stop having any power over him, you know, 178 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 4: then you're lost because you can't do anything. The doctor 179 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 4: won't talk to you. That's sort of thing. 180 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: Due to British age of consent laws, Pete wasn't allowed 181 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: to talk to the doctors about his son's mental health 182 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: after he turned sixteen. It's a frustrating law, paradoxical because 183 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: those late teenage years are exactly when symptoms start to show. 184 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: After Brett was released from prison, it said the family 185 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: felt like things were better and that the fact that 186 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: these murders had occurred it seemed out of the blue. 187 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: And I'm just curious when he that out of prison, 188 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: can you describe his behavior, like did it feel out 189 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: of the blue? 190 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 4: Is that acting you come out of prison, you know, 191 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 4: her to stay he had to go and see his 192 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 4: probation officer. That the probation office was on holiday, bless her, 193 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 4: so he couldn't see her. So there's a big thing 194 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 4: going on there, like, oh what do I see? Then 195 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 4: where do I go? There's no way they could give 196 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 4: him anywhere to stay, so he's out on the street. 197 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 4: He's not allowed to stay with me, even though I 198 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 4: wrote him a really good letter saying, how I understand 199 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 4: better what's going on, and I think things would be 200 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 4: fine and all the rest of it, you know. So 201 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 4: we put him up in one of these. 202 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: Like like a hotel or a hotel or something. 203 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's for about a week or so. And I 204 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 4: thought we can't keep doing this. So her sister tool like, 205 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 4: you know, she said, well, he can't stay here, you know, 206 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 4: blah blah blah. 207 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: Once the parole board had forbidden Brett to live under 208 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: his father's roof and Gillian had agreed to take in 209 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: her son, Pete had some unsolicited advice for his ex wife, 210 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: and it was absolutely horrifying to hear him say it. 211 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 4: I decide to her, get your knives or what does 212 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 4: sharp knives and put them away put him somewhere else. 213 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: You had warned Jillian to take away those knives. Was 214 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: that because you knew that he was dangerous or because 215 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: he had threatened before to like use weapons because. 216 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 4: I know there was a risk. It's as simple as that. 217 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 4: I know there was something not right. There was not 218 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 4: something not right. You know, sat in his room when 219 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 4: we put him in a hotel and he said, I 220 00:13:53,600 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 4: want you to go now. So he's getting ally, you know, wrong, 221 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 4: didn't they? You know? You just get to know that. 222 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: The moment is both bone chilling and bittersweet. Brett, self aware, 223 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: is telling his father to leave the room and get 224 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: to safety before another psychotic episode takes hold of him. 225 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: So you weren't surprised, No. 226 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 4: No, I wasn't surprised the whole thing happening, you know, 227 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 4: But merely and truly it didn't surprise me. 228 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: This confession is staggering. Pete Rogers is telling me, pure 229 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: and simple that he knew Brett was capable of something 230 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: like this. With that weight hanging between us, now's the 231 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: time to ask how did he react when he heard 232 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: his son murdered his former wife? 233 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 4: Well, Averon found me and a found He said, people 234 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 4: are saying sorry about this and sorry about that, and 235 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 4: I didn't know what he was talking about. And then 236 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 4: I started getting messages and I went around there basically 237 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 4: to see what was going on. I sort of knew something, 238 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 4: something really bad had happened, you know so, And I 239 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 4: don't know. They never told me. No, they keep storm, 240 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 4: don't they. They just said, like, you know, the incident. 241 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 4: It's an incident. Basically, it's a weird feeling because like 242 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 4: you're in shock, and life goes on and even a 243 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 4: little bit of shock, and you don't really know what 244 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 4: to do. 245 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: Pete. Having now met you, I think you're you seem 246 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: like such a well adjusted kind person. How were you 247 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: able to get through this? How have you been able to? 248 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 4: Well? 249 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: If you're in stand and hold a house and a 250 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: job and play guitar. 251 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 4: Well you do. This comes in as years go by, 252 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 4: don't it. I took a you onion analyst who's a local, 253 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 4: and I sat with her for probably once a week, 254 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 4: you know, more or less, for about five or six years, 255 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 4: and eventually got to where I want to be. I 256 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 4: guess sometimes you're all jumbled up in your head, aren't you, 257 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 4: And you just go ahead and do things anyway, you know. 258 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 4: But it gives you that space to sort of like 259 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 4: sort of segregate things a little bit and make the 260 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 4: right decisions basically. And me, for me, I am in 261 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 4: the winter. I generally take antidepressants for any a small amount, 262 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 4: a small amount, but recently I've taken a bit more. 263 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 4: I've taken them in the summer. And basically I realized 264 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 4: that I've needed them for years. I've needed them for 265 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 4: because I've noticed that if depression comes upon you, you don't 266 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 4: really know it unless you've been there, and you think 267 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 4: this is life. And when you get something that lifts 268 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 4: you that little bit, you think, well, this is how 269 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 4: it's supposed to be, you know, And so you can 270 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 4: manage your life like that if you have them problems, 271 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 4: you know. Yeah, And that's the way I'll get through it. 272 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 4: And I'd also like to like to laugh and have 273 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 4: a joke, you know. 274 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: My head went back to my friend Aaron's analysis. Of course, 275 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: she's never met Pete Rogers. She'd only reviewed the domestic 276 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: homicide report. But Aaron had nothing to worry about. In 277 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: front of me sat a docile, polite man who openly 278 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: discussed the worst night of his life. With a complete stranger. 279 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: As we start to wrap up questions about Brett, Pete 280 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: fairly asks for some clarity on the direction of the podcast. 281 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 4: You've told me that you're here to do a podcast 282 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 4: on Edward because he's an up and coming comedian, and 283 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 4: he's also done a gig on that something involves that 284 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 4: it may involve my one of my sons, and you 285 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 4: seem very interested in my son, and so it does 286 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 4: seem a bit over the top for you to come 287 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 4: all away over here to do a podcast on a comedian. 288 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 4: It does to me. 289 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: So ed talks about in his story is how he 290 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: was home the night that on July twenty second when 291 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: everything happened, and he said that he came home he 292 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 1: was doing a stand up set here in town or 293 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: at Ugly Village Hall, and it was John and Carroll, 294 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: his parents, both in the house, and they woke up 295 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: to banging, and they think that Brett was trying to 296 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: get into the house. That's what they believe. Did you 297 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 1: ever hear that before. 298 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 4: I've never heard that before, apart from yourself saying that 299 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 4: I don't know. The first I knew about anything was 300 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 4: in the morning. 301 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: Do you believe that happened that Brett went and tried 302 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: to break into their house that night, and this is 303 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: presumably after he had killed Jill and Dave. 304 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 4: Well, I wouldn't like to say it didn't happen, because 305 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 4: I mean, it could have happened, couldn't it? Because the 306 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 4: boy didn't know what he was doing? Really did he? 307 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: If it happened, why do you think he would go 308 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: to the Hedges house? 309 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 4: It wouldn't I don't think. No, it won't be the 310 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 4: hobbyist thing that I would think he would do. But 311 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 4: who knows? Because someone with their mind scrambled like that. 312 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 4: You can't blame someone who's got mental health issues like 313 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 4: that anyway, and they're not to blame. Really, it's just circumstances. Really, 314 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,959 Speaker 4: you know, that's all it is. You get nowhere from 315 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 4: blame like that anyway? 316 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 6: Do you. 317 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: Recognizing this as a chance for Ed to shar his perspective? 318 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,719 Speaker 1: On that night, I shoot him a text asking if 319 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: he wants to come in, how you been? 320 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 7: Was it all right? You're everything? 321 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 6: Fine? 322 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 4: Cool? Lovely? 323 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 3: How much is I don't obviously I don't know what 324 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 3: I've come what I'm coming into. How much has been 325 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 3: explained to you? 326 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 4: Because six week podcast six podcasts approximately sounds rough? It okay? Cool? 327 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 3: So all right, do you know what happened that night 328 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 3: with the house? We might have been for guns? Do 329 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 3: you want me to tell you what happened from our side? 330 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 3: Just to kill you in So, I became a comedian, 331 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 3: did gigs all over the place. But then when I 332 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 3: left stance did I didn't come back like ever because mates, 333 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 3: I didn't really want So when I came back, I 334 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 3: do you know ugly village? 335 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 4: All yeah, they had me. 336 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: Do I pack up my stuff and watch this reunion, 337 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: a decade in the making, unfold out of the corner 338 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: of my eye. It takes me back to the years 339 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: when your friend's parents were just shapes and faces. You 340 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: never thought about their lives, their worries, their fears. You 341 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: were just a kid, But they watched you play together 342 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: in the yard, ride bikes on the sidewalk, sheer meals 343 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: at each other's tables. In this instance, neither family imagined 344 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: how it would end. One of those kids would become 345 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,239 Speaker 1: a celebrated comedian. The other would become the subject of 346 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: every whispered conversation in town. 347 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 3: When you hear I'm a comedian and when you hear 348 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 3: I was talking about this, you first thought it was like, 349 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 3: why the fuck are you making jokes about that? 350 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 4: Whether there's a line there, haven't there, but I don't know. 351 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 4: I've never heard it show or no. 352 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 3: So the way the way I did it was, if 353 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 3: you think of the show, the story that I told 354 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 3: in like one hundred percent, eighty percent of it was 355 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 3: the village, me growing up, going to school, stupid people 356 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 3: in the village. The last bit was about Brett because 357 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 3: obviously me and Brett had some runnings and yeah, I 358 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 3: didn't know it. And the whole show was about me saying, 359 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 3: there's this bullshit thing that I think all men do 360 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 3: when we hit thirty, where your father or husband and 361 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 3: you've got to be like flawless. You've got to get 362 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 3: your money, you got to protect your a lot. You 363 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 3: can't show any weakness at all, and that pressure fucks people. 364 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 3: It just rocks people away because if you can't if 365 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 3: you can't show any weakness at all, if a guy 366 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 3: can't turn around to his mates and be like, really 367 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 3: not happy with my job, really not happy with what's 368 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 3: going on, I'm not in a good place. I'm struggling 369 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 3: at the moment, and I feel like if we didn't 370 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 3: have that, and if Brett was in the situation he 371 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 3: was in, he could have turned around and been like, 372 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 3: I'm not good right now. If there was no shame 373 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 3: around it, he could have got help. Because my stance 374 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 3: on it is it ain't Brett's fault. 375 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 4: Good time, so that the ones that keeping. 376 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: Their memories definitely I taken everything. He just told Pete 377 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: Rogers something that felt like a long winded confession. Or 378 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: maybe it was just his nerves kicking in saying what 379 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,239 Speaker 1: he knew Pete would want to hear a way to 380 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: justify his comedy. Either way, it was the first time 381 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: I'd heard any of it. 382 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 3: Pete, thank you so much, thanks your tom speech to 383 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 3: say us. 384 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: And as we say goodbye to Pete, I wondered how 385 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: much Ed believed what he actually said, and it got 386 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: me thinking there was one person in the story that 387 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: I hadn't interviewed yet asked the hard questions one on one, 388 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: Ed Hedges himself. How much of the truth did he 389 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: not know? Had he not faced had he taken any 390 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: liberties with the story that he still had not shared 391 00:23:53,680 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: with me? In the car, I check into my flight 392 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: back to Atlanta. I decided to follow up on a 393 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: few final loose ends before I left Stanstead, and Ed 394 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: was cool to drive me around the village, but the 395 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: quaint friendliness of this place was quickly wearing off. I 396 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: went to Ed's cricket club to interview his old coach, 397 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: Keith Ayres, the one so proud he'd given Ed an award. 398 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 3: I didn't say anything you no, I don't think you're 399 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 3: gonna get anything from me. 400 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: But we were met with nothing but icy glares and 401 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: folded arms. At a local bar where all the kids 402 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: who never left the village gather after work, we might 403 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: as well have been invisible. I wanted to hear some 404 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: good memories of Brett from his old friends, but. 405 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 4: Instant, what do you say? 406 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 7: Oh, and Argie membership? 407 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: You went, You're not members. A family friend of the 408 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: who had agreed to an interview suddenly ghosted. The former 409 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: classmate of Brett's ran the local flower shop, but inexplicably, 410 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: her store was now closed for the foreseeable future. 411 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 3: And see what I mean by you? 412 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 7: Yeah, totally sorry about that, guys. 413 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: It felt like whispers were swirling around this town about 414 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: our podcast and the questions we were asking about Brett. 415 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: In an instant, an entire village stopped speaking to us. 416 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: The cold shoulders put a chill on Ed's mood too. 417 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: By sunset, he wouldn't even look at me. My mind 418 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: rushed back to Sophie's accusations, through Ed's parents and the 419 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: police reports. I confirmed most everything that happened, But was 420 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: there something Ed wasn't telling me. I needed to confront 421 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,239 Speaker 1: ed here and now. So I sat him down and 422 00:25:54,280 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: I asked him point blank, I'll just be very direct. 423 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: I spoke to Sophie Hagen, who directed your original show. Yeah, 424 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: I mean she says that you made a lot of 425 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: this stuff up. What is what's true and what's not. 426 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:33,479 Speaker 6: She's correct, She's definitely correct. She's definitely correct. 427 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 3: And that's something I think I'm pretty upfront with in 428 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 3: the past, even in reviews. You can look up and 429 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 3: up front with it. She's you know, I'm not going 430 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 3: to say she's incorrect with that. So in terms of 431 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 3: in terms of what's correct and what's not, what's true 432 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: and what's not, the story is true. 433 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: Ed was caught off guard. His calm replaced with attension 434 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: that crept into his voice. I could see him tense up, 435 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: but I let him breathe let him process, and then 436 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: I let him tell me his side uninterrupted. 437 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 3: Anything to do with Brett is true, and anything to 438 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 3: do with Brett coming to the house is true. Sophie 439 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 3: was really keen on this being a one hundred percent 440 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 3: true show, and it was really tough. It was really 441 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 3: really tough for me to do a one hundred percent 442 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 3: true show with no embellishments or lives. And I'm a comedian. 443 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 3: That's my currency. I need people to laugh. If I'm 444 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 3: telling you this really bad story, you gotta laugh. And 445 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 3: I did a preview and a friend came up to 446 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 3: me and he was like, well, it's a crazy story. 447 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 3: And I was like, what do you really think about it? 448 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 3: And he said, edits the Edinburgh Comedy Festival, not the 449 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 3: Edinburgh Story Festival, and like a couple of my mates laughed, 450 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 3: and I was like, shit, I'm a comedian, this needs 451 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 3: to be funny. So I made the decision to start 452 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 3: changing the punchlines. When I went back into my childhood, 453 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 3: I would embellish stories. I was really nervous to tell 454 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 3: Sophie that, because she was so adamant that everything had 455 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 3: to be true, but I couldn't keep dying. And when 456 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 3: you're dying on your ass on stage, it's just you 457 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 3: and no one knows that you're being well, it was 458 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 3: all true, that it's bollocks. I sucked for four or 459 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 3: five months telling this story, and I decided that when 460 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 3: I went back into my childhood, I had to earn 461 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 3: the laughs. So I would give them some true, real story. 462 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 3: And then I would tell a story that I'd embellished, 463 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 3: or that I'd made up an ending, or I'd made 464 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 3: up a conversation in my childhood. 465 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: But the stuff that happened in the house with you 466 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: being there with Brett, those. 467 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 3: I never messed with that. I never messed with that 468 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 3: because I knew that if someone found out I was 469 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 3: lying about a murder in my village, I would get crucified. 470 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 3: Everything that I said, you kind of had to be 471 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 3: able to google it, You kind of had to be 472 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 3: able to search for it. And that's what upset me. 473 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 3: When Sophy searched for the things and she said, look, 474 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 3: I don't think this happened in your childhood. I was like, 475 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 3: damn right, it didn't happen. But that's not the reason 476 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 3: they're coming to see the show. I'm glad I made 477 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 3: the decision that I made. If you're going to bring 478 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 3: the audience down, you have to bring them back up. 479 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: I can understand that, and I'm not trying to where 480 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: I struggle, like, I can confirm those things, but where 481 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: I struggle is that I can't. I cannot confirm that 482 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: you and your parents were in your house that night, right. 483 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: I can't prove that there was banging at the door 484 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: because it's not in a police report and it's not 485 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: a yeah, that's and that's where i'm that's my struggle. 486 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, Brett was found next to my house, like and 487 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 3: you've seen the house. He was found ten foot away 488 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 3: from my house. That's where they found him. Brett spent 489 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 3: a lot of time at my house as a child. 490 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 3: My house was the only house in the village that 491 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 3: Brett could have gone to because we were the only 492 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,719 Speaker 3: house that he would come to to hang out as 493 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 3: a kid. 494 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: He was repeating the same facts, clinging to them, but 495 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: not because he was sticking to a made up story, 496 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: because there simply wasn't any new or different truths to 497 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: offer me. I could see the wheels in his head turning, 498 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: his frustration heating. 499 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 3: Up with me. You've spoken to the three eyewitnesses, me, 500 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 3: my mom, and my dad. 501 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: I guess to be very direct, Do you have any 502 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: proof though that you were? 503 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 3: But Jody, what proof do you want? What proof can 504 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 3: I give you? It is a first hand account of 505 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 3: something that happened. If you can think of a way 506 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 3: that I can prove this in a time that happened 507 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 3: before video, doorbells and CCTV. If you can think of 508 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 3: something I can bring to you, tell me and I 509 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 3: will bring it. If you can think of something that 510 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 3: will definitively prove it did or it didn't happen, tell 511 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 3: me and I will bring it. You've spoken to all 512 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 3: of us, and we've told you. Is there anything else 513 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 3: I can offer you? Because if not, this is one 514 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 3: of those things where you take my word or you don't. 515 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: I'm trying to stay objective to form an educated opinion, 516 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: knowing that there may never be hard proof that Brett 517 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: was at the Hedges door that night. For me to 518 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: believe that Ed is making it all up, I'd also 519 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: have to believe that he's convinced his parents to join 520 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: in on the lie, and after meeting them, I just 521 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: don't buy it. The truth is I believe Ed. I do. 522 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: ED repeats a behavioral pattern I've seen in my work, frantic, 523 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: anxious energy the Ed you see on stage, followed by 524 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: long periods of social withdrawal reflection. Those are the months 525 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: I couldn't even get a text back from him. It's 526 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: taken me this entire investigation to understand that this is 527 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: Ed's healing. 528 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 3: P I have done this show for so long, I've 529 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 3: told this story for so long, and the fact that 530 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 3: I lived through the. 531 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: Night, I could see the burden of proof weighing on 532 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: Ed's shoulders, and I wanted to stop the conversation and 533 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: tell him I trust him. But with what he said next, 534 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: I wasn't even sure i'd ever hear from him again. 535 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 3: The fact that I lived through the night. I don't 536 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 3: mean to sound like blase, but if I can be 537 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 3: one hundred percent honest with you, and this might not 538 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 3: be what you want to hear, I really don't give 539 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 3: a fuck if you believe me or not. 540 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: Next time on wisecrack, I'm just gonna show you something 541 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: for context. 542 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 7: This is his rap sheet And that was only twelve 543 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 7: years of his life. So in twenty twelve, Joe calls 544 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 7: the police again and explicitly says her son is trying 545 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 7: to kill her. Wisecrack is a production of Tenderfoot TV 546 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 7: and iHeart Podcasts in association with Starwiit Productions. I'm Your 547 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 7: Host Jody Tovey. The show is written by Charles Forbes. 548 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: Stand up comedy written and performed by Ed Hedges, with 549 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: additional writing contributions by Charles Forbes. Executive producers for Tenderfoot 550 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: TV are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Executive producers for 551 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: Starwiit Productions are Jody Tovey and Charles Forbes. Lead producer 552 00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: is Alex Vespestad, with additional production by Stephen Perez, Joe Grizzle, 553 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: ja Ja Muhammad, Jamie Albright, and Jordan Foxworthy. Lead editor 554 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: is Stephen Perez, with additional editing by Dylan Harrington and 555 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: Liam Luxon. Coordinating producers are John Street and Tracy Kaplan. 556 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: Research by Jim Nlly and Misty Showalter. Original music by 557 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: Jay Ragsdale with additional music by Makeup and Vanity Set 558 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: mix by Cooper Skinner. Artwork by Byron McCoy. Special thanks 559 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: to Orrin Rosenbaum and the team at Uta Nate Ranson, 560 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: Alexander Kaplan and the Synergy Clubhouse and the Nord Group. 561 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: For more podcasts like Wisecrack, search Tenderfoot Tv on your 562 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: favorite podcast app, or visit us at tenderfoot dot tv. 563 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Episode six will release next week, but 564 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: you can binge the rest of the season right now, 565 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: completely add free by subscribing to Tenderfoot Plus on Apple 566 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: Podcasts or at time underfoot plus dot com.