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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the

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Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyan, and this week on the show, I'm joined

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Speaker 1: by author writer in total outdoorsman T. Edward Nikins to

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Speaker 1: discuss what it actually looks like to live a life

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Speaker 1: dedicated to hunting, fishing, and conservation. All right, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light.

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Speaker 1: We're here for another episode in our Conservation Month series. Now,

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Speaker 1: so far we've learned about issues specifically related to white

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Speaker 1: tailed deer conservation. In their last year, we've explored the

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Speaker 1: conservation legacy and philosophies of Although Leopold, and most recently,

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Speaker 1: we dove into the particulars of grassland conservation, the impacts

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Speaker 1: that has on deer and other wildlife, and recent attempts

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Speaker 1: to protect these landscapes and animals. Now today we're gonna

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Speaker 1: zoom out to the general but I guess at the

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Speaker 1: same time we're kind of diving right in to the

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Speaker 1: heart of the matter. What I mean by that is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it's been pretty clearly established that

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Speaker 1: if we want to enjoy deer and deer hunting and

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Speaker 1: open space and all these other things we enjoy outdoors.

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Speaker 1: If we want to do that, it's on us to

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Speaker 1: help conserve and protect these things in the future. But

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Speaker 1: how the hell do we actually do that, especially when

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Speaker 1: it's seeming like, you know, there's there's so many challenges

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Speaker 1: out there facing the natural world, and are hunting lifestyle

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Speaker 1: not to mention all the other bs that we've got

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Speaker 1: going on in our own lives that we need to

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Speaker 1: deal with and figure out. So how can we actually

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Speaker 1: make a difference. How do we make the time time

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Speaker 1: for it? How do we figure out what's worth doing

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Speaker 1: and what's not. How do we do something that matters?

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Speaker 1: You know, we hear all the time about how we

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Speaker 1: need to be conservationists, but what does that actually look

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Speaker 1: like in real life? This is what I want us

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Speaker 1: to explore today. And joining me for this conversation is

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Speaker 1: t Edward Nikins, more commonly known as Eddie Nikins. Now

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Speaker 1: Eddie's Life, I think is a perfect illustration of this

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Speaker 1: lifestyle we're trying to put a finger on. I want

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Speaker 1: to understand what it looks like to live a life

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Speaker 1: dedicated to hunting and fishing and conservation. Look no further

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Speaker 1: than Eddie Nikkins. Eddie is a long time outdoor writer,

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Speaker 1: with much of his work focused on conservation related issues.

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Speaker 1: He's been prominently featured in magazines from Field and Stream

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Speaker 1: to Garden and Gun, to Audubon and The Smithsonian. He's

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Speaker 1: the author of the best of the Total Outdoorsman, the

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Speaker 1: Total Life Manual, and recently the phenomenal collection of hunting

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Speaker 1: and fishing essays, The Last Wild Road. On top of that,

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Speaker 1: he's also a National board member for back Country Hunters

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Speaker 1: and Anglers. More importantly, though, this is a guy who

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Speaker 1: just absolutely loves to hunt, fish and recreate outside and

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Speaker 1: he's done a ton of it. He spends his life

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Speaker 1: doing these kinds of things, and he's also thought long

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Speaker 1: and hard about how he can work to keep these

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Speaker 1: opportunities around. But he's not just thought about. He's actually

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Speaker 1: gone ahead and taking the many small steps necessary to

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Speaker 1: try to make this a reality. And short, I think

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Speaker 1: from what I see, from what I've read, from what

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Speaker 1: I'm picking up from him, I think he's found a

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Speaker 1: way to incorporate this, this idea of a conservation ethic

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Speaker 1: into his daily life. This is the terrain we're setting

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Speaker 1: forth into now, so sit back and enjoying my conversation

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Speaker 1: with Eddie Nikins. Alright here with me now on the

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Speaker 1: line is Eddie Nikins, Eddie Well from the show. Hey,

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Speaker 1: good to be here. Mark. I really appreciate you making

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Speaker 1: the time to do this. You've you, like I mentioned

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Speaker 1: before we started recording, I've been reading your work for

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Speaker 1: years and years and years now like so many other people,

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Speaker 1: and uh, it's just a real treat to get to

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Speaker 1: finally talk to you in person and uh and kind

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Speaker 1: of picked your brain. So thanks for making the time

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Speaker 1: to do this. Yeah, and I appreciate you not saying

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Speaker 1: that you've been reading my work for decades and decades,

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Speaker 1: which it could have been. It could have been the case,

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Speaker 1: but let's not doing U. Yeah. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: date you too much there, but but yes, I uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what year it was that your first

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Speaker 1: articles and Field and Stream came out, but I know

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Speaker 1: it's been a long time ago and I was picking

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Speaker 1: them up back in oh, probably the mid nineties is

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Speaker 1: when I probably was paging through those first issues when

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Speaker 1: I was seven or eight maybe. Um, so I know

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Speaker 1: you've been putting your print on that magazine for a

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Speaker 1: long time and continue to and many other places. So

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm a fan. I'm a big fan of of

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Speaker 1: the written word and the way you've done it. So

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Speaker 1: I'll try not to nerd out on the writing thing, though,

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Speaker 1: because there's a lot of people out there that probably

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Speaker 1: aren't as interested in the craft of writing as I am.

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Speaker 1: So I won't get into that, but I will get

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Speaker 1: into the topic of your writing, Eddie. Um, since everyone

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Speaker 1: listening isn'to hunting and fishing in the outdoors. But I

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Speaker 1: guess that that kind of sets up the first thing

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Speaker 1: I was curious about, because you've done You've done a

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Speaker 1: whole lot over the years, Eddie. You've you've written, of course,

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Speaker 1: and a number of different formats, but you've also done

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Speaker 1: videos and some digital stuff and and TV hosting and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: So so I'm curious about this, Eddie. When you're at

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Speaker 1: a dinner party, let's say, and you meet somebody new

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Speaker 1: and they ask you, you know, Eddie, what do you

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Speaker 1: do for a living? How do you answer that question

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Speaker 1: to a new person who who doesn't have any context,

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Speaker 1: who's not a hunter or angler like you are, necessarily,

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Speaker 1: how do you how do you approach that one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's an interesting an interesting point with a with an

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Speaker 1: obvious answer mark right. Um, that's what I consider my

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Speaker 1: job and my craft. Uh, and my that's who I am. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so I don't say I'm an outdoor writer. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm a writer, and I do make part of

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Speaker 1: my living doing other things, although it all tends to

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Speaker 1: be centered on some sort of word expression, whether it's

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Speaker 1: video or script writing or but I'm a writer and

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Speaker 1: that's what I say. Um. And the reaction to that is,

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Speaker 1: you know, what are you write? And then we'll go

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Speaker 1: into running into the fishing and the outdoor travel. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I tell people that I just I love stories,

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Speaker 1: meaningful stories, and they just happened to be they happen

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Speaker 1: to be told through the lens of the hunting and fishing. Um.

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Speaker 1: And that kind of takes us into some interesting conversations

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Speaker 1: from there as you can imagine that that's that's what

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Speaker 1: I am. I am a writer. And there have been

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Speaker 1: tim's when I they're the last, certainly with the digital revolutions. Um,

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Speaker 1: if I wanted to be something different, but man, I've

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Speaker 1: come back to I think that's what I'm put on

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Speaker 1: this put on this planet for is to string words together.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I'm gonna indulge myself here a minute, Eddie,

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Speaker 1: and everybody else listening will have to bear with me.

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Speaker 1: But you're you're a storyteller, You're a writer. But but

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Speaker 1: like you said, you tell, you tell good stories. You

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Speaker 1: enjoy stories, you enjoy the craft of good stories. So, Eddie,

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Speaker 1: what what makes a good story? Mm? Hmm? What makes

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Speaker 1: a story that I want to tell? I guess I'll

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Speaker 1: answer maybe that question is a story that is sort

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Speaker 1: of larger, sort of larger than the sum of its parts. Um.

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Speaker 1: For for some reason, I'm drawn to every day seems.

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Speaker 1: I've done a lot of adventure travel. I love that,

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Speaker 1: and and still still do remote places and and sort

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Speaker 1: of out of the way spots. But man, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: drawn moments when you're when you're water, and small happens

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Speaker 1: that you realize is just the point of it all. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I think folks have noticed that I've had great

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Speaker 1: reaction from readers. Who's who's responded positively to these these

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Speaker 1: small moments that just stick with you. Um. So, how

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Speaker 1: how the every day sort of resonates and amplifies every

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Speaker 1: day in terms of, you know, an ordinary hunt, an

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Speaker 1: ordinary sit in a tree stand, what makes what makes

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Speaker 1: it so extraordinary? Beyond beyond just the privilege of being

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Speaker 1: of being able, being able to do that. I remember

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Speaker 1: I wrote this piece, I called it Planet Tree Stand,

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Speaker 1: and it all turned on a moment when my daughter

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Speaker 1: was sitting with me and the tree stand and she

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Speaker 1: and she later head on my shoulder, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, you know we're here physically removed, and

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Speaker 1: this moment of connection with this little eight or nine

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Speaker 1: year old girl and everything that was going on around that,

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Speaker 1: from bonding with your child, from introducing them to the outdoors.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if I look for

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Speaker 1: those moments more, but they just I just know when

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Speaker 1: it happens, um And that's that's what I like to

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Speaker 1: write about. If you've been, if you go, if you

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Speaker 1: travel with me much at all, you will you will

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Speaker 1: see these times happened when I just check out and

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Speaker 1: I grab a pin or at a pad and sit

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Speaker 1: down on a rock, or about the about the streamer

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Speaker 1: on the cool seat and the skiff, and and I'm

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Speaker 1: just writing. I'm just writing curiously because it's just I

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Speaker 1: know that this is of that's happened. That's that's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I was curious if you could recognize those moments in

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Speaker 1: real time or if it was only later when you

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Speaker 1: sit back down at your desk and you think back

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Speaker 1: over your last week, that all of a sudden you

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Speaker 1: recognize these moments of of universal experience or something. So

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Speaker 1: so it's interesting to here you can think you're kind

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Speaker 1: of tuned into it even in the moment. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it does happen in the moment now I am.

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Speaker 1: I am very, very fortunate to write for magazines that

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Speaker 1: are committed to good writing and pay for good writing.

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Speaker 1: So on the back end of that, you know, a

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Speaker 1: week or two or three months later, you know, if

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Speaker 1: it takes me it takes me six hours to craft

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Speaker 1: the paragraph, I feel like I can do it. And

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Speaker 1: so that's a that's a rare thing, and that's a blessing.

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Speaker 1: And I'll called my editors and bosses for good in

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Speaker 1: me that for giving me that space. But it does

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Speaker 1: frequently happen in the moment. I've traveled a lot with

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Speaker 1: my son, particularly Jock and and and he knows uh,

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Speaker 1: and he'll steel sort of tell people just you know, writer,

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Speaker 1: just just this way even mind, Yeah, yeah, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I had a pallet buddy Scott would and we

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Speaker 1: all over the place, Alaska and Labrador and back in

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Speaker 1: these long to do trips, and even he knew, Um,

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Speaker 1: I'd always have to paddle because at any moment, white water,

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Speaker 1: what are you mean, I might put the paddle down

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Speaker 1: and start to scribling. So it's fun to see it.

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Speaker 1: It's fun to see it happen. Yeah, that's the That's

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Speaker 1: the great thing about being a writer is that every

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Speaker 1: moment in life has the potential to be a story,

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Speaker 1: at potential to be material. Uh. It just seems to

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Speaker 1: be a matter of having your eyes open to it.

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Speaker 1: At least That's something I've kind of learned as I've

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Speaker 1: gotten deeper into this. Is is just trying to maintain

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Speaker 1: a sense of awareness about everything going on around you,

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Speaker 1: because there's there's material there if you're open to it. Um.

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Speaker 1: But speaking of speaking of stories, before I go too

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Speaker 1: far down this whole rabbit hole of of writing and storytelling,

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Speaker 1: which I'm personally fascinating, I do want to I want

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Speaker 1: to shift towards the main reason why I want to

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Speaker 1: chat with you, Eddie, and and we talked about this earlier.

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Speaker 1: It's this idea of of how to live a life

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Speaker 1: in which you not only enjoy the natural world as

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Speaker 1: a hunter or angler, but but how do you live

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Speaker 1: a life in which you can reciprocate that enjoyment in

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Speaker 1: a way. And and I read a story of yours

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Speaker 1: the other day, and I wanted to read an excerpt

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Speaker 1: from that story and then kind of get your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on this, because I think it nicely ties into what

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Speaker 1: I want to get at here. Uh, this story of yours.

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Speaker 1: I think this is in your new book, The Last

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Speaker 1: Wild Road, which is a collection of your your stories

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Speaker 1: and essays over the years, which is tremendous. Um you

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Speaker 1: were talking about this invitation you got from a friend

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Speaker 1: to go fish the best cutthroat stream in America, and

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Speaker 1: your friend took you there. He swore you to secrecy,

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Speaker 1: and he ended up having a fishing trip that lived

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Speaker 1: up to the hype. At the end of the stories

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Speaker 1: You're hiking out, I think you described this. You said,

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Speaker 1: I tried to parse my sense of near euphoria. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't that I caught the largest cutthroat I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't that I proved myself tough enough to get into

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Speaker 1: a rough place and fish well and get back out again,

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Speaker 1: even if I limped that last mile to the truck.

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Speaker 1: It was that my friend found me worthy of his

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Speaker 1: spot and trustworthy of his secret. He was willing to

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Speaker 1: take the chance and take me the there, and know

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Speaker 1: that I would walk out and speak little of the

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Speaker 1: details of that valley and bury the memory of the

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Speaker 1: trail deep, and burn the shovel, forget the photos and

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Speaker 1: the fish tails. He knew I'd never forget what was

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Speaker 1: most worth remembering that a place like that still exists,

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Speaker 1: the fact that those places still exist today, Eddie, What

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Speaker 1: does that? What does that mean to you? How much

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Speaker 1: does that matter? Well, you know, I remember, I remember

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Speaker 1: that very very well. You know. It's all the difference,

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Speaker 1: all the difference, Mark, And I'm going to circle by

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Speaker 1: in a moment to what we were talking about earlier,

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Speaker 1: about the more mundane aspects more every day, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of what really matters is how we respond to

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Speaker 1: a place, you know, whether it's your back forty or

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Speaker 1: whether it's the Buna beyond as this as this place was.

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Speaker 1: But what what matters I think looking looking at it

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Speaker 1: thirty five years of rioting and working in conservation is

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Speaker 1: that these places they're not there by accidents. They're not

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Speaker 1: still untrammeled places by by accident. There was, it was

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Speaker 1: thought there was a cost um. Society was willing to

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Speaker 1: bear that cost at great, at great cost, a Great

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Speaker 1: Smoking Mountains National Park, which is earned some fabulous book

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Speaker 1: trout fishing. There they were. There were hundreds and hundreds

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Speaker 1: of people who were forcibly moved from those mountains to

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Speaker 1: create that national park that we that we just think

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Speaker 1: was just always there and whild and I have I

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Speaker 1: have interviewed old old women who remember their mother's I

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Speaker 1: mean the front ports rails of their little shots in

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Speaker 1: the Smokies as the sheriffs were literally pulling them off

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Speaker 1: of their porches to evict them so we could have

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Speaker 1: this wild place. No, I'm not saying we should we

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Speaker 1: should do that. I'm not saying it was like. I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying it was wrong. I'm just saying that America

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Speaker 1: has shown itself capable of great sacrifice for wild places

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Speaker 1: and now we want them at no cost, at no

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Speaker 1: inconvenience to anyone. But we don't we don't realize what

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Speaker 1: it took to to set the aside, to set aside

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Speaker 1: these places. And so when I go to a place

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Speaker 1: like that stream, um, when I hear other people who

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Speaker 1: go to places that are just still so wild, the

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Speaker 1: first thing that comes to my mind was we all

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Speaker 1: we all paid for that. America paid for that, Society

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Speaker 1: paid for that. And what are we willing What are

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Speaker 1: we willing to do? Now? You know, what are we

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Speaker 1: what costs are we willing to bear? No matter what

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Speaker 1: that cost looks like, whether it's more toxes, whether it's funding,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a social cost, what are we willing to

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Speaker 1: do to keep these places wild? Because they all came

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Speaker 1: initially at got a cost. Yeah, yeah, I like uh,

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Speaker 1: I like the point I heard you make. Well, you

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Speaker 1: made a you made a point just now about it's

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Speaker 1: it's not necessarily how wild the places, but more how

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Speaker 1: the place, however far it is off the pavement, impacts you.

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Speaker 1: And and I've heard you in the past talk about how,

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Speaker 1: you know, how we might go about defining back country

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Speaker 1: in different ways. While somebody in Montana might define their

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Speaker 1: back countries eight miles off the road, someone maybe in

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Speaker 1: you know, urban Michigan, closer to where I live, might

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Speaker 1: be eight paddle strokes down the river, and they had

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Speaker 1: that that feeling, that sense of being away from it all,

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Speaker 1: and how each of those things is awfully valuable in

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Speaker 1: its own way. Um, But but I agree with you

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Speaker 1: that it is. It's it's vital that we still have

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Speaker 1: those wild places in whatever form we need them. But

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Speaker 1: I'm curious you haven't been around this now for decades, Eddie,

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Speaker 1: and paying attention to these places, and and the costs

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Speaker 1: that were required to have these places. How confident are

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Speaker 1: are you given what we've seen in recent years, given

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Speaker 1: the trajectory we might be able to forecast looking into

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Speaker 1: the future, how confident are you that we'll still have

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Speaker 1: places like that for let's say you're potential grandkids someday.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm starting to think about that. I have

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Speaker 1: two young children my own, and I'm looking at what

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Speaker 1: are the will they still have? What opportunities will they

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Speaker 1: still have? Will they still have that incredible secluded valley

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Speaker 1: to hike into? Will they still have that river that's

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Speaker 1: clean and accessible for them to paddle down? Someday? Um?

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about what this world might look

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Speaker 1: like twenty years from now? For a year, kids and

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Speaker 1: their families you know it's not it, yes, answer, I

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Speaker 1: mean the answer is only if, only, only if generation

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Speaker 1: and the next generations put their shoulders into the same

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Speaker 1: traces that the earlier generations do, and only if we're

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Speaker 1: willing to work work for that um and the challenges,

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Speaker 1: the challenges are great, but they were you know, they

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Speaker 1: were great. They were great in the nineteen teams and

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Speaker 1: twenties and thirties, you know, when the Southern appal actions

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Speaker 1: were clear cut, where when you know every duck and

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Speaker 1: shore bird coming down the Atlantic coast was imperil dat

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Speaker 1: you sold in the market or put on a ladies hat.

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Speaker 1: So we we've had giant, enormous landscape spilled challenges in

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Speaker 1: the in the past, um, and we certainly have them

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Speaker 1: in the future. And I think looking at what's happened

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Speaker 1: in the last five or ten years with an upswelling

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Speaker 1: of the new voices of new energy, of new passion

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Speaker 1: that are willing to willing to work wild places, ye

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Speaker 1: willing to to write their legislators, willing to get out

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Speaker 1: there and pick up trash and pick up the slack

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Speaker 1: and fund organizations. You know you have to have you know,

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Speaker 1: it's you have to be an optimist have to be.

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Speaker 1: You have to have that that feeling that there's there's

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Speaker 1: positive movement, and I mean there is, there's there's great

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Speaker 1: positive I'm a I'm a huge supporter and our North

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Speaker 1: American board member by country Hunters and Anglers, and that's

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Speaker 1: only one organization that is out there, uh stemming the

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Speaker 1: stem in the rising tide against our poet lands and

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Speaker 1: and pot wildlife. So I am uh, I am hopeful

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Speaker 1: that the Daunting ask Um, because pessimism is gonna will

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Speaker 1: just suck, will suck the gas the gas tank dry.

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Speaker 1: So we just we just can't be pessimistic. We have

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Speaker 1: to be We have to be optimistic and looking at

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Speaker 1: looking at the the new generation. And you're my kids

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Speaker 1: are twenty two, my son's twenty crew, my daughter's twenty five, um,

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Speaker 1: and they're great kids that they are involved alves and actors.

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Speaker 1: I know, we hear a lot about gen X and

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Speaker 1: gen Z and millennials and whatever, but man, my kids

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Speaker 1: and there and their peers, they're they're not gonna sit

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Speaker 1: by left and left the world go to hell. Um.

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Speaker 1: They're they're out there doing doing their part, and they've

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Speaker 1: got tools that that we didn't have UM, so what

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Speaker 1: do you think kids and my grandkids are going to

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Speaker 1: have these are going to have these wild places? Maybe

357
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Speaker 1: not as many, um, but I don't know. I hope

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Speaker 1: that few of public lands that we're seeing now there's

359
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Speaker 1: not a lot more land that can be domain, but

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Speaker 1: I'm hopeful that we haven't seen the last wild places

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Speaker 1: UH put into put into public ownership. So you just

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Speaker 1: can't you can't stop, You just can't mark, you can't

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Speaker 1: give up, and you can't give up hope. So that

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Speaker 1: that's where I that's where I am with it. But

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Speaker 1: I do I do feel positive when I see the

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Speaker 1: younger generation is coming up. They're smart, they're committed, they're passionate, um,

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Speaker 1: and they're gonna they're gonna make an impact. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's true. I agree with you. There's there's

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Speaker 1: definitely this this swell of enthusiasm and and you starting

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Speaker 1: to care about these things. And I don't know, kind

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00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: of curious about where that where that comes from for people,

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Speaker 1: I mean for for myself. You know, I didn't have

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Speaker 1: parents or anyone who was preaching to me the value

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Speaker 1: of these places, or maybe they weren't preaching to me

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Speaker 1: that I needed to take action, that I needed to

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Speaker 1: be a conservationist, that I needed to care about environmental

377
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Speaker 1: causes or or the or or public lands and access

378
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Speaker 1: to them, all that kind of stuff. But they did,

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Speaker 1: They did instill in me this sense of respecting nature

380
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Speaker 1: and respecting wildlife and taking care of those things we had, um,

381
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Speaker 1: and and treating the world with with care and respect.

382
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Speaker 1: So so I had that, but it wasn't for you know,

383
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Speaker 1: many many years later of being a hunter and angler

384
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Speaker 1: and kind of you know, consuming and taking and just

385
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: wanting to you know, being out there being a fun hug.

386
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Speaker 1: I guess you could say. It took me till I was,

387
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Speaker 1: you know, in my early twenties, and as I got

388
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Speaker 1: deeper and deeper into hunting, I was discovering, you know,

389
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: books like a Sand County Almanac, or reading some thing

390
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: or uh, whatever it might be. I kind of had

391
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: this the slow realization that if I was going to

392
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Speaker 1: keep on enjoying these places and these these wildlife and

393
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: and these experiences out there, that if I was going

394
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: to take and take and take, I had better start

395
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: giving giving giving back. UM. But that took me a

396
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: long time to get there. I'm just curious for you, Eddie,

397
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Speaker 1: what does that look like for you? Did Can you

398
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: recall when that shift happened for you? Or was it

399
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: from day one that you were thinking about these things?

400
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: Was there a moment, like a light switched moment where

401
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: you all of a sudden started to look at this differently?

402
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: What was that that story like for you? You know

403
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: it was a it was an well to yours mark,

404
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: not on the same on the same track. I didn't

405
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: grow up, you know, fishing family. I've told this story

406
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: a number of times before. Um al there early on,

407
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: I was actuated with hunting and fishing, and I've never

408
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: even met a hunter. I've never even seen a gun. Um,

409
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: But you know, read the magazines and fielding stream and

410
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: sports and fields and out of the license. It wasn't

411
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: until my and I wanted to hunt and fish so badly.

412
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: I remember on a family trips and my family did camp.

413
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: Um my brother and I were laying in the back

414
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: of the family's nineteen seventy three Ford Pinto station wagon.

415
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: You didn't have to have seat ballots. You laid back

416
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: there and you know, made jokes and pointed this and that,

417
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: and I looked out and there was a We're driving

418
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: through the country, done on interstate, driving through the country,

419
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: and I and I saw three stand wearing am wearing

420
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: a blaze orange vest, just a teeny little pinprip and

421
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: I I remember asking myself, well I ever hunt? I

422
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: could see no pathway to that would would that ever

423
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: be experience? I remember that clearly. And so when my

424
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: father died and a friend from the church took me

425
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: under his wing and introduced me to this world, what

426
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: I recall, yes, belief that it had happened, utter disbelief

427
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: that I was now a hunter. And I'll be honest,

428
00:28:50,520 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: that level attitude and gratefulness and instead stilled us believe.

429
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: I still feel the day more when I look at

430
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: aspects of my life, when I look at the career

431
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: that I've had, it's this feeling of Holy prod, How

432
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: how did this happen? So my approached the conservation from

433
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: that feeling of gratitude UM and being so incredibly lucky

434
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: to be here that I wanted to make sure I

435
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: did nothing to tarnish the heritage UM. And I was

436
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: interested in history, and so I threw myself into the

437
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: history of conservation, in the history of colonial nactural history

438
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: in the United States, and so mine came from a

439
00:29:54,080 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: different ways. It evolved into this generalize awareness of conservation

440
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: movement and activism and advocacy and how we pull the

441
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: levers of power in this country, But it was rooted

442
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: in this just cannot freaking believe I get to do

443
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 1: what I what I can do as a career, you know,

444
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: but as and every day hundred angry. Everybody should have

445
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: that faith. Everybody should feel like, holy moly, I get

446
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: to do this. You know, I'm not in the King's woods.

447
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: I get to do this. And if you approach it

448
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,719
Speaker 1: from that perspective of gratitude, how could how could you?

449
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: How could you not do anything? But I want to

450
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: perpetuate that kind of wondering all for the next generation. Yeah,

451
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: it's a pretty a pretty remarkable ah inheritance. I think

452
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: that we have to enjoy here now and and that

453
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: that that idea of of wanting to perpetuate it. I

454
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: think that is something that's shared by many many people

455
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: these days. Um, but I think what is um, what's

456
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: the common reaction to that once we once someone has

457
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: this realization of source where they realize, oh, wow, this

458
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: is this thing that it was very costly for us

459
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: to to have, whether it be public lands or thriving

460
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: wildlife populations or clean rivers, whatever it might be. I

461
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: think we I've seen and heard and talked to so

462
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: many people that you know, get to whatever point in

463
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: their life it is where they realize, oh wow, this

464
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: is a privilege that we have, and they recognize that,

465
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: and they realize that it requires work and care to

466
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: maintain that. You get this very common next question, which is, well,

467
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: what in the world can I do about it? How

468
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: do I how do I do something about it? I

469
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: mean this, it's just never seems to be a question

470
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: that's going to go away. We hear about some new crisis,

471
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: we hear about the next problem, we hear about the

472
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: the umpteenth example of something going down the tube, and

473
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: you sit there and you worry about it, or you yea,

474
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: you looked down at your feet and you yeah, you're

475
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: bummed about it. But then you think to yourself, what

476
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: could I possibly do to make a difference about it?

477
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: As it just a little old meat? Um, how did

478
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: you how did you approach that early on in your life,

479
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: when you when you first started diving into this history

480
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: and learning about you know environmental activism and and the

481
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: people that came before us. Earlier in your career, as

482
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: you started exploring these questions and these obligations, maybe we

483
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: could say, how did you try to tackle this at

484
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: that point in your life. I'm curious to kind of

485
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: compare how your first steps might have been different than

486
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: maybe what you are thinking and in actions are now,

487
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: if if at all, Um, how did you first approach that? Man?

488
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: That's a good one, um, I think initially right good

489
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: that the first great act of change is do no harm.

490
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: I don't know that I could have articulated it early on,

491
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: but I do remember that early on in the law

492
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: following the rules, will you agree with them or not? Was?

493
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: It was just importing me? And that was that was

494
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: drilled into me by by my mentor Keith Gluesome. He he.

495
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: I don't know that that Keith do as much as

496
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: I did at one point about the history of conservation

497
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: law and all that, But he knew that that limits

498
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: that regulations and ethics. They were there for a reason.

499
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: He was a very disciplined human being and he he

500
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: he did it still still that into me, and I

501
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: kind of I was brought up in that excuse me

502
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: the old school way of Remember the first time he

503
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: asked me to go squirrel hunting, I thought, hot, Damn'm

504
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna just brain brain lad on these squirrels.

505
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: And you know he nevery of course, he never let

506
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: such a gun. You know, it was three or four

507
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: weeks or but you know, we had to go through

508
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: this process, you know, and wow, that was that was

509
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: That was a great, a great lesson. Um So doing

510
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,479
Speaker 1: no harm, I think, is the first thing we could

511
00:34:53,480 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: do that and that means obeying every single game fish law.

512
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: Where do you like or not? What do you agree

513
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: with him or not? What do you think you're stupid

514
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: or not. They're there for a reason, a scientific reason.

515
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: But they're there for another reason, which is side rails

516
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: on our behavior. So we know when we've stepped over

517
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: the line. And so you know, I was, I was.

518
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: I called grief about this all my life. Not know

519
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: I'm not shooting at the time, dove limits for til

520
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: I'm not shooting. I'm not shooting. Third thing, I just

521
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 1: I just wasn't gonna be. I have a good excuse.

522
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: Now if I get caught, you get caught. If I

523
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: get caught, this this. No, it's it's no good. But

524
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: I'm not even tempted trespassing good. I mean, I'm playing.

525
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: I was brought up a good, a good boy from

526
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: the South. I would not you know, when I went

527
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: to North Dakota freelance duck hunting still and we still

528
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: not bear to step on a piece of unposted land

529
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: that we knew we had legal access to without asking

530
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: about our conformation. We just couldn't bring umself. We couldn't

531
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 1: bring ourselves to do it. Uh. And so I think

532
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: that's part of it, Mark, is we all have to

533
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: we have to do no harm. We have to we

534
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: have to make sure that nobody ever says, I, yeah,

535
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: you know he's that that that guy he jack lights tonight.

536
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: We know that that that would undo every every positive

537
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: thing you did. I say, that's the that's the starting point.

538
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: But we've we've got to have these new hunters coming

539
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: in our fold. Was just fabulous. It's even a morning

540
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: coming upon us to set that good example because they

541
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, they don't they don't know why

542
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: you have to plug your shot done for three shots

543
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: when you're hunting my tweed birds. Um, they don't know

544
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: what the Pittman robertson active is and why that is

545
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: so critical to the nature, to the country's environmental infrastructure.

546
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: UM And So I think it's not incumbent on all

547
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: of us to be to be those kinds of teachers

548
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: and mentors and good examples. UM And I think if

549
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: you're not willing to do that be in this game.

550
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: I think we've gotten to that point. If you're not

551
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: willing to be a positive influence, you don't need to

552
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: be in this game. All H agree with that. Uh.

553
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: And it comes back to um And it's something that

554
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: I've brought up a couple of times recently. I read

555
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: this book a few weeks ago or a month or

556
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: so now ago, called Braiding Sweet Grass, and the author

557
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: was speaking of this, UM, this idea, this philosophy of

558
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: of reciprocity with the natural world, UH that had come

559
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 1: from her background as a as a Native American, and

560
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: this idea of of giving back, of of if we're

561
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: going to take something, we need to give back an

562
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: equal and UH. And I feel like that's that's a

563
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: perfect example of what you're talking about. UM and and

564
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: something that I just think about a whole lot more

565
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: now than I ever used to and and maybe it's

566
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: just because I have been able to enjoy so many

567
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: more of these things as I as I learn more

568
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: and explore more and now having kids and thinking about

569
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: all that too. Um. But I I guess that next

570
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 1: thought then is if if the starting point is being

571
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, doing no harm yourself, doing the right things, um,

572
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: following the law, and then next is helping other people,

573
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: mentoring other people, being a good example for other people,

574
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: helping educate folks, um, helping other people experience these special places, um.

575
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: And you've been doing that for years and years and years.

576
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: Now what's that? What's the graduate level work now that

577
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: you are that you've experienced now over the years now

578
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: having been within this world and caring about these things

579
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: for a long time. Now, what's what's it look like

580
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: to be a hunter and angler and conservationist in real life?

581
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: And additionally just described, I mean, what what kinds of

582
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: things over the course of a year, Eddie do you

583
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: do that are inspired by this this uh, this this

584
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: this care and cause that you now seemingly have a

585
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: life for al drum I'm I don't want to count

586
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: b h A too much here more, but that's that's

587
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: where a lot of my lot of my time and

588
00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: effort and sort of psychic energy go right now. UM,

589
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: because I do think that I do think that Drew

590
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: uh has his finger on the on the pulse or

591
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: something that's super important and super timely. UM. So I

592
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: think I think the answer is going to differ for

593
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: different different people. I was I was in Louisiana Little

594
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: Buddies of mine a couple of months ago, fly fishing

595
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: for for big bull drum and marshes, and I was

596
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: going I was going to I was gonna skiff a

597
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: friend who has done pretty well, UM, got some resources,

598
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: and he asked me, he said, I write, you know,

599
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: a twenty five dollar check, two fifteen organizations, some of

600
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: them are right a hunderd dollars. That that was his involvement,

601
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: and he his question was similar to your. He asked me, said,

602
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: is that is that what I should be doing? Is

603
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: that a useful way of spending my tie back to

604
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: the conservation world? And my response to him was absolutely,

605
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: that's a that's a great way to to to be involved.

606
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: I said, but you know, you may want to think

607
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: about one or two groups that really took off the

608
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 1: boxes for you that are really close to your heart

609
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 1: and maybe able to think about having a larger impact there,

610
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: drive that area deeper. Um and you know, and that

611
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: was the That was the end of the conversation. And

612
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: then four or five days later he sent me a

613
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: copy of his life membership to b h A. No,

614
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not saying this to underscore b h A.

615
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: I'm saying it's to underscore how one person was thoughtful

616
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: and intentional and took the next step. Not not that

617
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 1: everybody wants to be a life member of an organization

618
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: can afford to be a life merban organization. But these days, man,

619
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 1: you can't swing a cat without hitting her an opportunity

620
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: to go picked up trash and wildlife management area, or

621
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: you go clean out a boat ramp, or uh go

622
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: work on a TU project or store a stream. So

623
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: you know, there's really no there's no excuse anymore for

624
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: not being able to to get involved either at the

625
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: hands get your fingernails dirty level or more of what

626
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: I do, which is sort of working on policy and

627
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: working on larger national issues with with b h A.

628
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 1: M writing about wetlands conservation for conduction limited. So I

629
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 1: think I think it's a great time to be alive,

630
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: to speak in that vein. I mean you you could

631
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: spend you can spend every waking hour volunteering for a

632
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 1: valuable conservation projects in the hunting and fishing sphere. So

633
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: we're very very fortun in that regard. What's that been

634
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: like for you, Eddie since since getting more involved with

635
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: b h A and of course be on the board.

636
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a lot of people who have who

637
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 1: have thought to themselves, So I wonder if I should,

638
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: you know, take a larger role with an organization that

639
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 1: I'm a member of. Maybe I could be a chapter leader,

640
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: or be the secretary on my state board, or get

641
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: involved with in this kind of leadership position or that

642
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: leadership position, or or any kind of next level like that.

643
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: How how has that been for you? How has that

644
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: impacted how you look at these things and and your

645
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:38,439
Speaker 1: your impact. Yeah, well I'm secretary of the Median Board

646
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: of Bretons for North American h A. So as far

647
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: as being secretary of local chapter, I would say noted,

648
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: duly noted. But you know it's people will tell you

649
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 1: it's just a lot of fun, you know, you know,

650
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: these though these groups are rod and gun clubs of

651
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, these are the groups where you meet tribe,

652
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: where you meet like minded folks and you start off

653
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: working on a conservation issue or or or a landscape

654
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 1: that needs restoration repair, but you end up just making

655
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: great friends. Um. He said. I would encourage anybody to

656
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: look up to look to it for that. But you know,

657
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: I think we all have something specific table. Um. Queen

658
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: land Tawny asked me to join the h A board.

659
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: What's been almost seven years ago. I was. I believe

660
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: I was the first. I'm pretty sure I was the

661
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: first from east, from the eastern United States. And I

662
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: had worked with Land before the National Acceperation on some

663
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: sporting out reach and it was intentional on his point,

664
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: it was intentional for me to to to see that

665
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: there was a role I could play in bringing a

666
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 1: different perspective to that to that quickly growing group. Um.

667
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: And so that that was that was my strength. You know,

668
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: my strength is is not fundraising. Uh. You know, I'm

669
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: an English major, So my strength is not anything to

670
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: do with having a hammer in my hand. Um, but

671
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: asking yourselves, you know, what what can you what can

672
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: you bring the cable? Maybe it's a strong back, and

673
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: we need a lot of strong bokes. And maybe it's

674
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: a strong mind and we need a lot of strong minds.

675
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: What what would just need more people on the strain.

676
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: The more people on the strain, the better. What what

677
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: have you? What have you found? You know, as you've gotten,

678
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: as you've you've mentioned you've made a great point how

679
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: this is the opportunity to kind of engage and find

680
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: your tribe right, It's it's not just work. It's all

681
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: so fun, but it gets you around like minded people,

682
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: people that UM, people that care about the same things

683
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: you care about. What have you learned from those people

684
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: inside your tribe that you've now gotten more engaged with

685
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: through b h A in your example, UM, it could

686
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: be any other organization for someone else. But what's that

687
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: been like for you? Have your eyes been open to anything?

688
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: Have you been inspired by these people in some new ways?

689
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: There is there anything that now years later you've discovered

690
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: that you didn't know or hadn't experienced before taking that

691
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 1: next step. I had no idea mark how many people

692
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: we're willing to work so hard for this, I mean

693
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: work so hard for this. We we started the North

694
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 1: Carolina State Chapter b h A on my back deck

695
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 1: at my house, and it was six of us. None

696
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: of us knew anybody else. In degree we were totally

697
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 1: each other. Not a single relationship existed. And to see

698
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: that Greek, the tens of ours, the hundreds of ours,

699
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: each one of them has put in to that state chapter.

700
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: And again, this isn't about b h A. This is

701
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 1: about a willingness to put your shoulder to the work.

702
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: I have been honest at the level of commitment. And

703
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: this goes back to our earlier conversation about where my

704
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: optimism comes from. I mean, it doesn't come from politicians

705
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: and policy. It comes from people who are willing to

706
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: do the work, man who have heard the trumpet call.

707
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: And I mean I've been involved in this, involved in

708
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: this all my life practically, and I did not have

709
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: I did not realize how how deep those passions ran,

710
00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: how much people were willing to put on the line. Um.

711
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 1: I followed a group in Florida called Captains for Clean Waters,

712
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: which is started by two captains, Chris Women and Daniel Andrews,

713
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 1: who were nearly lost their will. The pretty much lost

714
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: their their livelihoods for two years and some of the

715
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: worst algebrings down there for and to see what that

716
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: group has been able to do when they went all in,

717
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: all in for wildlife, wild places and hunting and fishing.

718
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: It's that's what's that's what's been inspiring that. That's why

719
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 1: I do and it is I choose to be optimistic.

720
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: I could choose to be testimist market where were that?

721
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: What would that do? That would do nothing? So it

722
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 1: is a choice, and I choose to be optimistic, and

723
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: I choose remain involved, and I choose to working. And

724
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 1: honestly I am And people who know me well would

725
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: say I don't say this very often, don't really mean

726
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: it when I do say it, but I mean it

727
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: this time. I am humbled by aunt of work that

728
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: other people do, the amount of time and endwors what

729
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: I I mean. I could give you a list of

730
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: many men and women in North Carolina you ought to

731
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: be talked to the other than other kid with Nick

732
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: smith Man. It is that still to inspire to see it.

733
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: That's why I'm optimistic. Yeah, I love that. So, Uh,

734
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 1: here's something I'm wondering about. I think a lot of

735
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: people wonder about because there are a lot of other

736
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: folks like you mentioned who are willing to do the work,

737
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: who are willing to sweat, bleed whatever it has to

738
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: be done to make a difference. A lot of people, though,

739
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: are pulled in a lot of different directions, many many

740
00:49:55,719 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: different obligations, uh many many different folks emailing them or

741
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 1: texting them or posting on Facebook saying help this cause,

742
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: help this cause, help this cause. Right, Um. I think

743
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: one of the things, one thing I worry about a

744
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: lot these days is people just becoming fatigued by all

745
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: the different issues they're being pummeled with over the head

746
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: and told do this, do this, help us, help us,

747
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: and and many many many of those are great, great causes,

748
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: things that really do need help. But I worry people

749
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: will become overwhelmed or just shut off because they are,

750
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: you know, just flooded with it. Um. What I'm what

751
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: I'm getting at, though, is what I'm curious about, is

752
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: I think many people wonder how can they best utilize

753
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: their time, like what's the most what's the highest r

754
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 1: o I on their efforts? And given your vantage point

755
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: being involved at the national level of b h A,

756
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've you and the team there have spent

757
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: a lot of time looking at and considering and looking

758
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 1: at the data around. Okay, what's the action that makes

759
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: that makes the most difference. What's the thing that really

760
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: really you know, dials up the pressure on a on

761
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: a congressman or a woman or something like that. I mean,

762
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: when you when you look at that whatever review you

763
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: guys have been able to do over the years, is

764
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: there anything that has stood out to you and the

765
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: rest of the board as far as the impact that

766
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: you know, tweets versus phone calls, versus letters, versus showing

767
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: up in person versus any other thing like that. Have

768
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: you guys found something or some series of actions that

769
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: are the most impactful when it comes to that kind

770
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: of UH participation. What we've found is that engagement matters

771
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: UM personally priving to me and we have a dh

772
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:50,760
Speaker 1: A been about trenching this data, figure out which levers

773
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: were the best and win. And I've been even surprised

774
00:51:54,960 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: at how much phone calls and emails and personal communications

775
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 1: to legislators matter. UM. That's been that's been a that's

776
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: been a big surprise. UM. I think hunters and anglers,

777
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: particularly UH get frustrated dealing with state agencies at the

778
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,240
Speaker 1: game and fish level. Um, when they go to public

779
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: hearings about regulations, UM and And I understand that, UM,

780
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: But we can't let that frustration make us sit on

781
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: our hands. Any engagement is better than no engagement. But

782
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 1: being strategic about and being very personal when you contact

783
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: your legislators, UM and representatives is important and it and

784
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: it makes it makes a difference, absolutely makes a difference. UM.

785
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: But man, there's no personal doubt. I mean that that

786
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: is frustrating. You know, to send something off into the

787
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: ether and think your senator is gonna be sitting there

788
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: with his or her feet up our desk and read

789
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: and it's going to change her mind. I don't know

790
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: that it works that way, but that public and that

791
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: public input works. And I think the other thing that

792
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 1: we're finding out with with b h A analyzing this

793
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: data and looking strategically at what works in the landscape

794
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: is to actually start thinking bigger and broader. We're experiencing

795
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: this in North Carolina where we have been dealing with

796
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: this trickle of losing access to public trout waters in

797
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: the mountains. And it's nothing catastrophic every year, but it's

798
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, it's a quarter mile here, mark, it's access

799
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: there to boat rent there and and and we've been

800
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how do we how do we

801
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: stop that we turn that around? And we've been we've

802
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: been looking at the at the micro level of this

803
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: boat ramp or this landing and what what we can

804
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: do um and we're starting to realize that we need

805
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: to we need to move to the forest service level.

806
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: We need to we need to be advocating in Atlanta

807
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: at the regional office as much as we're advocating in Asheville,

808
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: North Carolina at the at the at the that the

809
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: smaller office too. I think we're starting to get more

810
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: politically savvy. We're starting to get more plugged into how

811
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: to make how to make a difference. But the most

812
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: important thing is just to get off your hands and

813
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: not sit on them, and and and be involved. And

814
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,399
Speaker 1: we all have our strengths. You know, I'm pretty good

815
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: at writing letters, might not be so great at that

816
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: at other things, but just be involved. I Mean it

817
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 1: sounds so trite and so simple, but I see what happens.

818
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 1: I've seen it in North Carolina students across the country.

819
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 1: I've seen with b h A, I've seen with Duckston

820
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: Linnen seen to you. Once you put your footing the

821
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: road of working for wildlife, man, it's not list not

822
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,439
Speaker 1: long before you run in the full sprint. Yeah, it's

823
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: easy to do that when you have such a such

824
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:18,879
Speaker 1: an awesome thing to be fighting for something we love

825
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: so much. Um, that's that's one thing we've really got

826
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: going for. There's a whole lot of different political causes

827
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: and things out there that people get fired up about,

828
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: but I can't think of many others that are so

829
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: darn rewarding just to be a part of it that

830
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: we love so much. I don't know anyone who really,

831
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 1: really really loves I don't know healthcare, but I know

832
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of us that absolutely love sitting

833
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: in a tree and watching a white tail go by,

834
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: or standing in the river and watching a trout sipping

835
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: on a mayfly. Um. That that's pretty darn motivating to

836
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 1: get out there and try to make sure you can

837
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: keep doing those things. But man, people and people want

838
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 1: it so badly. Marked man. I was speaking at an

839
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: event um South Carolina, the Southeastern Wide Exhibition a few

840
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: weeks ago, and at the end of at the end

841
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: of the talk, you walks up and engine line you

842
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: know at the end, which his turn to chat, and

843
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: he's just like, he's never hunted, he's never fished. He

844
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: wants it so bad. He has no clue and no

845
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: one in his life. The spellers here in his late twenties,

846
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: you know, had disposable income, educated, articulate, no way to

847
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: get into it. So I hooked him up with a

848
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: with a local chapter of h A down and down

849
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: the southeast. But there's when you see someone like that

850
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: who wants what you have, who wants to experience what

851
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: you can experience in the back country, or you know,

852
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,439
Speaker 1: just on the local farm park. They want it so bad.

853
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,439
Speaker 1: We we've got to get a way to to see

854
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: those people, to get them, to get them inside of

855
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: the circle. You know, this is a little of a

856
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 1: left turn here, Eddie, But you bring up this fact

857
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: that there are so many people out there who are

858
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: interested in getting involved in this space that we occupy

859
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: and that we've been able to enjoy over the years. Um,

860
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: but there's a little bit of a m I'm sure

861
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: you've you've seen it, you've heard you've you've heard people

862
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: talk about this or seeing the articles over the last year,

863
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: so especially since COVID just this significant influx of users

864
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: on our public lands, and some folks saying, hey, you know,

865
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 1: forget this whole hunter recruitment thing. There's too many people

866
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 1: out there as it is. Or there's folks bemoaning changing.

867
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: You know, out of state tag lotteries and stuff, and

868
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: out of staters are flooding our states. So you know,

869
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: Wyoming's cutting down on their you know, non resident tags,

870
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: and Idaho is doing this and so on and so forth.

871
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: All these is pointing to, you know, there's there's too

872
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: many people. Let's stop trying to bring folks into the fold. Uh.

873
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: What's your response to that sentiment that seems to be

874
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: popping up here and there now, maybe more so than

875
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: it was in recent years. Man, it's real. It's as

876
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: real as earlier day. I was trying to find a

877
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: camp site its National Park this summer, which is a joke. Laughter,

878
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: there's no way. Um, it's a and it's something. So

879
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: it's something that affects us all. Uh. Oh, man, it

880
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: is a tough one. Do we really need more duck

881
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: hunters on Jordan's Lake and the Piedmont in North Carolina? No,

882
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: the ducks don't need it either. Um, but the reality

883
00:58:53,280 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: is I don't know that we can turn this way. UM.

884
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: It seems to me that the that the enormous surge

885
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 1: during COVID that was driven by and the need for

886
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: folks to get outdoors, that that I don't think was

887
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: driven by the R three movement and the proactive ways

888
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: that the hang and fishing industry has gone about uh

889
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: its outreach graay games. So whether those folks decide maybe

890
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: the back country is not in the place for them

891
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: or not, I don't know. I think right now we

892
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 1: need to sort of hold our breath and hold our

893
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: tongues maybe, um, until we can figure out how to

894
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: manage this this surge because I don't think anybody nobody

895
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 1: saw it coming, and and I think we're having as

896
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: an industry or or as a as a body of

897
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 1: of public land users. Um, there's there's a little bit

898
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 1: of shock to the system right now, I think. And

899
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: it's not just in the West, it's in the East,

900
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: and I mean it's everywhere. UM, So we're gonna have

901
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: to figure out the future may very well look different

902
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: from the past on some famous western trout rivers. That

903
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: may look different than the past on southeastern coastal waterfowl,

904
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: marshes um. But bringing educated uh and I don't mean

905
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: school educated, but bringing in folks and educating them on

906
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: the history of conservation, role of heating and fishermen, the

907
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:49,439
Speaker 1: American wallet movement. That's that's got to be a part

908
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: of the solution. It's got to be a part of

909
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: the solution. Now, I I follow your logic on that,

910
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: but there might be some people who own't who don't

911
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: see or maybe who haven't heard the explanation for why

912
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: that's important. Can you just run us through simply, but

913
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: why it is a good thing. Why we could use

914
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: some more folks as a part of this community that

915
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: understand what's going on, that participate in your mind, what's

916
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: what's in it for us to to advocate for more

917
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: of that? Well, wildlife public lands need instituency. They need

918
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: people who are going to speak up for public lands

919
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: and public wildlife and not just public but for private lands,

920
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 1: for private wildlife initiatives. I mean, that's the that's the argument, right,

921
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: that's the only argument. Of course, I want people to

922
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: get to get to all and the wonder that I

923
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: get from the outdoors. I mean, I want everybody want

924
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 1: here is nothing not to feel that way. But look,

925
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: I get I get this at the crowds. I get

926
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: those issues. It's a it's a tough it's a tough

927
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: place to be, um. But they're they're here now order

928
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: that we turned them into people who do no harm

929
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: and and and we turned them into outdoor users who

930
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: are proactive and protecting the landscapes. Um. And if we

931
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: if we say, you know, no, you would put up

932
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: these barriers and skinses and saying you know, sorry, we're

933
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: closing the barn door. Um, We're gonna turn these I mean,

934
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: we risk turning these folks against the very values that

935
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: we that we hold deer. But it's I mean, it's

936
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: a tight right. I'm not gonna say it does suck. Um,

937
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 1: I mean it does. And it's a it's a tough situation.

938
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:02,919
Speaker 1: And that's why I would just counsel what in your

939
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 1: tongue and taken a step back, and let's see how

940
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: all this looks in a couple of years. It may

941
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: look very different. Yeah yeah not but it may it

942
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: may not. Um, but we're not going to have fewer

943
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 1: fewer people in the outdoors, There's there's no question. But

944
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: you know what, what are we gonna what are we

945
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: gonna do about western trout fishing? What we gonna do

946
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: about the difft boat hatches on these rivers? I mean,

947
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: these are these are serious, These are serious issues, and

948
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: we're all and a lot of us, myself included. You know,

949
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: we've we've had a long span of time where things

950
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: were fairly static, and we've had more and more people

951
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: in the outdoors. It's been going certainly in the in

952
01:03:55,120 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: the in the trout fishing worlds. Um, but I'm not

953
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: sure those are gonna be Are you gonna be back?

954
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: So we're gonna have to figure it out and it

955
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: might and it might be more regulations were permitted days. Um. Yeah,

956
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: So that's only one of the challenges. We can talk

957
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: climate change and whether patterns and urbanization, but we need

958
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 1: to often answer your question, we need to take the breath, um,

959
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 1: and see where the numbers fall in a year or

960
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 1: two before we really make any decisions. So crowding of

961
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: our wild places, whether it be public lands or even

962
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 1: you know here in Michigan, all my buddies are constantly

963
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: talking about how it's harder to get access to private

964
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 1: land because the stuff they used to have knock on

965
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: the door, permission you know now is leased up or

966
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: five other guys hunted or whatever. So if it's overcrowding

967
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: or access or you mentioned you know a series of

968
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: other things there. Um, what is it that keeps you

969
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: up at night looking forward? What concerns you? What issue

970
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: or threat coming down the pipeline? Um is most concerning

971
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: to you when you look into the future as far

972
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: as impacts on wildlife and wild places and the ability

973
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: to hunting fish. I I think more there's gonna be

974
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: a lot of folks that don't agree with me on this.

975
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: The pressures of development and industrialization are so great that

976
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 1: whatever is not fine okay held by the public um

977
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 1: is going to be a greater gay risk. So I'm

978
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 1: an advocate for more public lands. I'm an advocate for

979
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: increasing acres, increasing I mean, that's that's part of the

980
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: solution to more and more people. So what what concerns

981
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 1: me greatly as the the best your public lands, um,

982
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 1: whether it's in the west or whether it's in the east. Uh,

983
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 1: that's a that is a that's a huge concern. Um.

984
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 1: If we had more where more people could room more freely.

985
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: It's it's just a win win on a number of

986
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 1: on a number of categories. And this takes us back

987
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: to that conversation of what what are we as an

988
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: American society willing to sacrifice? What are we literally willing

989
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 1: to pay two increase the storeholder natural treasures that we have.

990
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 1: So that's part of the solution. That's maybe the time

991
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 1: sky mark, but that's one thing that I that I

992
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 1: see the climate change. I spent a lot of time

993
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: on the coast, and that's that's frightful as well. Um,

994
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: but just having enough, having enough, why in the room

995
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: appreciating that, That's to me, that's the That's one of

996
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 1: the bigger issues and just one of the issues that

997
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: I think we can we can make some moves on. Yeah,

998
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: well that that simple idea of simply protecting more habitat

999
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 1: addresses a lot of the impacts of all the other things. Right,

1000
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: if if we're talking climate change and warming waters, or

1001
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 1: animals needing to change, you know, need to migrate to

1002
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: different areas well, having more land protected solves that. If

1003
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:00,040
Speaker 1: we're talking about overcrowding, well, having more land solves that.

1004
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 1: U if we're talking about impacts of over harvest or

1005
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 1: over fishing or industrialization or anything like that. Well, more

1006
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 1: protected space helps with that, UM. But how I think

1007
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 1: the question is like how it sounds pretty darn good.

1008
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 1: I mean, people talk about the the recent thirty by

1009
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 1: thirty UH ideas and proposals, right, trying to conserve of

1010
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 1: our land by the year sounds great and principle. I

1011
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,760
Speaker 1: love the idea of it, um, but how do we

1012
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 1: actually get there? Are you aware of any actual ideas

1013
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,639
Speaker 1: or proposals or initiatives that people like us can get

1014
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: involved with to help make something like that happen. Well,

1015
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 1: those are big policy issues that are gonna be driven

1016
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 1: at the higher levels. But but we do see some

1017
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 1: positive movement in that, you know, with the RAVA, with

1018
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:58,720
Speaker 1: the covering Americans. While I laugh with um land ward

1019
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: conservation fund issues, we see people willing to step out

1020
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: on this on this funding side. UM. So again asked

1021
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 1: what kept me up at night? And that's what kept

1022
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 1: me up at night. Um, I'm not sure that I

1023
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: know the solutions to to that, other than to keep

1024
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 1: to keep chipping away at it um and and then

1025
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: goes back to the do no harm. Every acre we

1026
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: we lost lose the is two acres we have to

1027
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:38,959
Speaker 1: gain just to take half a step forward. So protecting

1028
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 1: what we have is the first, the first step of that.

1029
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: But there've been there've been opportunities, certainly on the state level,

1030
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 1: h in various states where there have been some increases

1031
01:09:53,320 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 1: in public layers acquisitions. So working to identify those getting

1032
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: involved in groups that are that are working to advocate

1033
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:06,640
Speaker 1: for those would be would be the first step. And

1034
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a dulting it's a dulting task.

1035
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: But there's so much that we can do that's not dualting.

1036
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 1: There's so many you know, we can get involved in

1037
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 1: so many other levels, uh, and feel like we're making

1038
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 1: a difference. Yeah, yeah, you know this, Um it makes

1039
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 1: me think of a piece I read of yours you

1040
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 1: were writing, might have been earlier this year. Last year

1041
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 1: you were writing about the recent die off of manatees

1042
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 1: in Florida, which is just astounding. I think I saw

1043
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 1: recently that now it's a quarter of all manities. And

1044
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong in this, but I think

1045
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: of all the manities in Florida died over the last

1046
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:54,440
Speaker 1: twelve months. Yeah, within a space of a year. Just shocking.

1047
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 1: And then and there's there's examples kind of like that

1048
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: all across the world, seemingly every day of something different

1049
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: like that that's happening. It's it can be if you

1050
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 1: allow yourself to become negative and to get depressed, it

1051
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: really can take you there pretty quickly. Um, so you were,

1052
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 1: you were writing about this, and you're you're trying to

1053
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 1: process all that. And I want to quote another thing

1054
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: you wrote here because I found it pretty powerful. Uh.

1055
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 1: You wrote this, you said, speaking of Florida, what truly

1056
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: afflicts this incredible state is what afflicts us all the

1057
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:37,439
Speaker 1: twenty one century version of apathy, our click through mentality,

1058
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: our tendency to breeze by and scroll through the ails

1059
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 1: of our time. I don't know how to heal Florida,

1060
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: but there are things I can do join engage right lament.

1061
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 1: Uh that really resonated with me, and I gotta believe

1062
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:58,640
Speaker 1: it resonates with a whole lot of other people. Um

1063
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: what what else would you add when it comes to

1064
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 1: battling this temptation of apathy to just scroll through and doom,

1065
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 1: scroll through Instagram or Facebook and shake your head and say, God,

1066
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 1: this is the world's going to hell in a handbasket

1067
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 1: and then flip back on Netflix and keep watching the

1068
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 1: next episode of the Office. Uh what what would you

1069
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: leave us with when it comes to avoiding that temptation

1070
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 1: and doing something different? Three easy words, Martin, Right, this

1071
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 1: is you off the most? What impacts you the most?

1072
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: If every hunter anger across the country, in every region,

1073
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:49,719
Speaker 1: every habitat type answered that question for themselves and picked

1074
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 1: their fight and put their passion, in their time and

1075
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 1: their resources into that one fight, it would it would

1076
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 1: turn in the time, it would eliminate and inoculate all

1077
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 1: of us if we pick the one fight. Wise words, Well, Eddie,

1078
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 1: I plan on trying to do just that. I appreciate

1079
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 1: everything you've shared, you know, over the years, and your

1080
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,799
Speaker 1: articles and taking the time here chat with me about

1081
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 1: about all this. It's um it's encouraging to to be

1082
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:31,719
Speaker 1: able to look to someone like you as a model

1083
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 1: for for what we can all do in our own lives.

1084
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 1: And uh, man, I just I appreciate it, can you? Well?

1085
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: These are these are overly kind words, Mark, and I

1086
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 1: appreciate you doing all that you have to bring these

1087
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 1: issues to to the forefront. Well, thank you, thank you

1088
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 1: for that as well. I gotta give you an opportunity

1089
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 1: though here Eddie, to tell folks about your book which

1090
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 1: came out. I guess it was last fall. Maybe, UM,

1091
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 1: can you tell folks a little bit more about this

1092
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 1: book that I've I've quoted a couple of times here

1093
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:08,600
Speaker 1: now and I've been reading it. I've read your articles

1094
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:10,680
Speaker 1: over the years that many of them are featured in here.

1095
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 1: I've picked up new ones now since I'm reading the

1096
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 1: physical copy. But tell us a little bit more about

1097
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 1: The Last Wild Road and where folks can can pick

1098
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 1: this up and and dive further into these experiences that

1099
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: have that have formed you and inspired this this land

1100
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 1: ethic that you have. Yeah, thanks for Thanks for the opportunity.

1101
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 1: The Last World Road came out in May, published by

1102
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: Lions Press, and it's a collection of five stories that

1103
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,879
Speaker 1: I've published in Field and Stream over the last eighteen

1104
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 1: years or so. About half of those pieces are my

1105
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 1: short columns column that that runs in every issue for

1106
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 1: the magazine for the last twelve years. List the content

1107
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 1: or long or long features. Um. Colin Kearns, the editor

1108
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 1: chief of Field the Stream, and I worked worked really hard.

1109
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 1: We're very very proud that book. Um. There's a lot

1110
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: of really personal stories in there, a lot of adventure stories,

1111
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: but some of the pieces that you quoted, Mark, are

1112
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: you know, examples of those moments where I've just been

1113
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: sort of all struck by my place in this in

1114
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 1: this industry, by the experiences I've had. But a lot

1115
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:39,519
Speaker 1: of the stuff is back forty far off the highway,

1116
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,760
Speaker 1: places and experiences that that a lot of hunters and

1117
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: anglers have. It just give them given a lot of fuel.

1118
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 1: So it's available on Amazon. It's that I've seen any

1119
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: bookstores all over the place, So yeah, I have a

1120
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,719
Speaker 1: coffee and take their read Last Wild. It's good stuff.

1121
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: I highly recommend it to anyone listening if you if

1122
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 1: you need to escape from the drudgery of the office

1123
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: or your cold winter backyard, or wherever it is is

1124
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 1: ailing you right now, this is a great way to

1125
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,680
Speaker 1: to get out there and hunting fish through the page.

1126
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 1: And uh, you do a great job of transport. It's

1127
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 1: all there. So I hope there's I hope there's future

1128
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 1: books in your future, Eddie, because I've really enjoyed this. Yeah,

1129
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:23,760
Speaker 1: I think there will be. Thanks, thanks very much for

1130
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:27,280
Speaker 1: the kind of words, and with that, Eddie, I will

1131
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:29,840
Speaker 1: shut this down and let you get back to whatever

1132
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 1: fun outdoor activities you've got coming down inline for yourself. Yeah. Man,

1133
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:39,160
Speaker 1: well I appreciate it very much. So alright, so there

1134
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 1: you have it. As I mentioned already, be sure to

1135
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 1: pick up a copy of Eddie's book, The Last Wild Road.

1136
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:49,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's great. And then from there, man,

1137
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 1: let's get to work. Let's work to do no harm.

1138
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: Let's try to reduce our waste. Let's consume a little

1139
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: bit less. Let's be a good example. Let's mentor others.

1140
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:00,720
Speaker 1: Let's teach our friends and family about the outdoors. Let's

1141
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 1: get involved with some local conservation organizations. And then let's

1142
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 1: also try to be active with national issues and legislation.

1143
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 1: Let's write letters and make the phone calls when we're

1144
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 1: called upon to do so. Let's try to give back

1145
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 1: to these wild places and animals that have given us

1146
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 1: so much. Every little step, every action, each decision we

1147
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 1: make to try and do the right thing. It matters.

1148
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 1: At least, That's what I'm telling myself, and I'm gonna

1149
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 1: stick to it. So I hope you will too. I

1150
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 1: hope you will continue on this journey with me. I

1151
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 1: appreciate you so until next time thank you, get outside

1152
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:42,960
Speaker 1: and stay wired to hunt.