Speaker 1: What's that at the foot of my bed. It's spooky
Speaker 1: and JOOKI, I'm pretty sure it's dead. It's coming this way.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, he I'm go, said tyro Jeens. Hey boo,
Speaker 1: it's me Raz. Now I'm just gonna give you a
Speaker 1: heads up right off the bat. I am recording this
Speaker 1: on Monday of this week, November second, the day before
Speaker 1: election day. So as I'm recording this, I don't know
Speaker 1: what's going on by the time you're listening to this.
Speaker 1: Hopefully good news, who knows, But today we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about ghosts, so hopefully you know, you'll enjoy this conversation
Speaker 1: that I had because I hit up somebody really cool.
Speaker 1: His name is Richard Estep, and he is a writer
Speaker 1: of tons of different paranormal books, but he definitely has
Speaker 1: like an expertise when it comes to haunted hospitals. And
Speaker 1: a couple of months back, I was talking about haunted
Speaker 1: hospitals and how you know, I didn't know a ton
Speaker 1: of stories or you know, just stuff about haunted hospitals,
Speaker 1: and then a wonderful listener of the show, Patrick hit
Speaker 1: me up and was like, Hey, you got to talk
Speaker 1: to Richard. Richard knows what's up, and so I'm so happy,
Speaker 1: Thank you Patrick for the recommendation. And I'd like to
Speaker 1: dedicate this episode to the healthcare workers and you know,
Speaker 1: all that they've been through this year, and the hard
Speaker 1: work and the all the scariness and the risks that
Speaker 1: they put themselves through. I know it's kind of a
Speaker 1: weird thing to dedicate or we're talking about your work
Speaker 1: being haunted possibly, but you know, we do weird things here,
Speaker 1: and healthcare workers, I see you and I appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Speaking of I thought it would be fitting to read
Speaker 1: this listener story. This comes from Kevin, who posted in
Speaker 1: the Facebook group called Ghosted by rasdres Fales. Kevin writes,
Speaker 1: I knew I had to finally write in when something
Speaker 1: strange happened at work this week. I work at a
Speaker 1: skilled nursing facility, a nursing home in the rehab department.
Speaker 1: I'm an occupational therapist assistant. Sometimes, when working with a patient,
Speaker 1: I'll use a video game system with a motion capture
Speaker 1: camera similar to Connect that shows the patient's joint movements
Speaker 1: with a stick figure and body outline in a box
Speaker 1: in the lower left corner of the screen. This is
Speaker 1: to evaluate range of motion. The camera will also show
Speaker 1: this kind of figure for anyone else standing close by,
Speaker 1: such as myself. One day earlier this week, I was
Speaker 1: using this with a patient and there were only a
Speaker 1: few other people in the gym at the time. I
Speaker 1: noticed the bottom of the screen showed my patient on
Speaker 1: the left, myself and someone else standing next to me
Speaker 1: on my right. Between me and the cabinet, there was
Speaker 1: nobody there, only a stick figure on the screen with
Speaker 1: no body outline, just a very tall stick figure standing
Speaker 1: there as if watching us play the game. I thought
Speaker 1: that was strange, and I knew this kind of camera
Speaker 1: has been used in ghost hunting. Yes, I believe that
Speaker 1: is an SLS camera that you were talking about. Very
Speaker 1: popular on you know, those ghost hunting shows like Ghost Adventures,
Speaker 1: which ps I watched. I don't know if you guys saw.
Speaker 1: I'll get back to the story in a moment, but
Speaker 1: Ghost Adventures did a ghost hunt at the former Joe
Speaker 1: Exotic Zoo and I watched it. It was it was
Speaker 1: pretty good. I enjoyed it. I mean, I just like
Speaker 1: my favorite thing about ghost shows like that is I
Speaker 1: like to just see people go into different places and
Speaker 1: interacting with the people that live and work there, and
Speaker 1: it was it was very interesting to see the Joe
Speaker 1: exotic place because I certainly like everyone else to watch
Speaker 1: that documentary, So yeah, check it out. Anyway, back to
Speaker 1: the story, Sorry about that. I couldn't freak out because
Speaker 1: I had my patient with me. I had to maintain
Speaker 1: my professionalism, so I calmly tried to debunk this quote
Speaker 1: ghost while seated next to my patient, who was obviously
Speaker 1: enjoying the game. I looked behind and around me for
Speaker 1: other people that the camera may be capturing. Now, I
Speaker 1: checked for reflections no. I reached out into the area.
Speaker 1: I felt nothing, and the figure moved. I opened the
Speaker 1: cabinet door. This obscured the camera's vision of the figure,
Speaker 1: but I closed the door and the ghost was still there.
Speaker 1: I did it again, same thing. I had to tell
Speaker 1: someone because the few coworkers present were busy and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to interrupt them. Fast forward to later in
Speaker 1: the week. I was with another patient using the same
Speaker 1: video system, but this time I was co treating the
Speaker 1: patient with a colleague. No strange figures were present. This time.
Speaker 1: I decided to tell my coworker what happened and what
Speaker 1: I saw. Given the reputation of hospitals and nursing homes.
Speaker 1: No one is really surprised by this sort of thing.
Speaker 1: But then I to treat my next patient in her room.
Speaker 1: She was seated on the side of her bed and
Speaker 1: I was explaining the standardized test I was about to
Speaker 1: use to assess her dynamic sitting balance when she and
Speaker 1: I heard a voice to my left. We were the
Speaker 1: only ones in the room. When we looked over, we
Speaker 1: saw a roll of clear plastic trash bags had fallen
Speaker 1: from its place on the wall and proceeded to roll
Speaker 1: across a desk and fall to the floor. We both
Speaker 1: looked at each other strangely, as if to say, eh,
Speaker 1: that was weird, because nothing could have knocked it off.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, I got really cold in goosebumps
Speaker 1: sprang up all over my body. My patient did not
Speaker 1: seem to be having the same sensation. Well, I couldn't
Speaker 1: freak out. I had to maintain my professionalism, so I
Speaker 1: smiled and said, actually, I'm going to need that for
Speaker 1: the test we're doing, because I always use the role
Speaker 1: of trash bags as a prop during this particular assessment.
Speaker 1: I walked over, I picked it up, and proceeded with
Speaker 1: the treatment session. There were no further incidents during this session.
Speaker 1: But how strange is that right after I talked about
Speaker 1: the ghost I saw earlier in the week, I have
Speaker 1: another experience. And what a coincidence that the item I
Speaker 1: need is the item that seemed to move on its own.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Well, Kevin, thank you so much for sharing, and if
Speaker 1: anything else happens, please let me know. So, guys, I'm
Speaker 1: about to throw it on over to my conversation with
Speaker 1: Richard as step. Now, this is somebody that has been
Speaker 1: paranormal investigating for a minute, and so he has had
Speaker 1: all kinds of experiences all over the worlds And I
Speaker 1: actually asked him, can you tell me an experience that
Speaker 1: really like shook you? And he tells me on Patreon
Speaker 1: you guessed it, patreon dot com, slash Rozdressflees you can
Speaker 1: hear that bonus clip on my second tier called on
Speaker 1: with the show. So we talk about this experience he had,
Speaker 1: which involved a spirit associated with an infamous serial killer,
Speaker 1: and then we started talking about some other serial killer.
Speaker 1: You may have heard of them, John Wayne Gacy, whose
Speaker 1: ghost is present at a theater and Richard wrote a
Speaker 1: book about it. So Richard knew all about the John
Speaker 1: Wayne Gacy thing as well. So we talk about murder
Speaker 1: ghosts on Patreon this week and on Patreon this week,
Speaker 1: I have got for you a video of me driving
Speaker 1: around Hollywood and going to some spooky Hollywood destinations. We
Speaker 1: go to the Knickerbocker Hotel, we go to the Wax
Speaker 1: Museum of Hollywood Boulevard, the Hollywood Tower, the Nightmare on
Speaker 1: Elm Street House, all kinds of places from the comfort
Speaker 1: of my car, you know, kind of like going on
Speaker 1: one of those ghost tours or the movie Star house
Speaker 1: tours of Hollywood. You can find that video on Patreon
Speaker 1: on my first tier and my video last week. I
Speaker 1: have gotten a number of messages from people, and I've
Speaker 1: sent it to some friends that kind of know this
Speaker 1: paranormal world, and I'm like, did I or did I
Speaker 1: not catch a ghost at the Colorado Street Bridge, because
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I captured a ghost on camera. And
Speaker 1: everyone I've showed the video to They're like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: like it looks like something. So make sure you go
Speaker 1: check that out on Patreon. Anyway, let's talk to Richard
Speaker 1: step On with the show. Hello, Richard, how are are you? Today.
Speaker 2: Hello Ross, I'm doing very well, and thank you for
Speaker 2: inviting me onto your show.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, of course I'm so excited to have
Speaker 1: you on because we've talked a little bit on this show,
Speaker 1: weirdly not enough about haunted hospitals, and I've been told
Speaker 1: that you're the guy, and then I start like really
Speaker 1: digging into what you do, and oh my god, you've
Speaker 1: written like three books about haunted hospitals. You've been on
Speaker 1: TV shows about haunted hospitals. I'm sorry I haven't reached
Speaker 1: out sooner, So thank you for coming on my I
Speaker 1: think my first question, I'm always so curious because you're
Speaker 1: a researcher, you're an author. How did you get into it?
Speaker 1: I guess it's a pretty simple question. But where did
Speaker 1: this all start for you?
Speaker 2: Well, when I was a young boy growing up in England,
Speaker 2: my grandparents lived in a haunted house. And the story
Speaker 2: there is that it was one of those big World
Speaker 2: War two generation families, you know, because there wasn't there
Speaker 2: was no such thing as TV, so you just had
Speaker 2: a lot of kids instead that was entertainment. My grandfather
Speaker 2: was away fighting in Burma during the Second World War,
Speaker 2: and my aunts and uncles all had the same experience.
Speaker 2: An old lady would come into their bedroom at night
Speaker 2: and would took them into bed a very protective, very
Speaker 2: kind of friendly maternal spirit, which turned out to be
Speaker 2: a former owner of the house who had died there,
Speaker 2: keeping a watchful eye on the children. And so I
Speaker 2: heard this story, and I was just fascinated. And I
Speaker 2: used to have to sleep in that bedroom all alone
Speaker 2: when I would visit my grandparents. So I was a
Speaker 2: mix of about fifty percent terrified fifty percent fascinated, hoping
Speaker 2: that this apparition would show up, And unfortunately she never did.
Speaker 2: When when my stepdad and my aunts and uncles grew
Speaker 2: up and had kids of their own, they moved on,
Speaker 2: and she moved on too, to where knows. But that
Speaker 2: starts me down this road of being fascinated with haunted
Speaker 2: houses and led me to the library, which is where
Speaker 2: I think all good paranormal enthusiasts should go, long before
Speaker 2: they go near a TV screen. And I would just
Speaker 2: get every book on the paranormal I could find and
Speaker 2: devoured them over and over again.
Speaker 1: And then so you got into being you're a paramedic, right, Yes.
Speaker 2: I'm a paramedic. Here in Colorado.
Speaker 1: Oh amazing. So is that what led you into this
Speaker 1: haunted hospital world?
Speaker 2: It is I've been doing. I've been a paramedic, an
Speaker 2: EMT initially, and then a paramedic since two thousand and two.
Speaker 2: I changed careers after nine to eleven because I wanted
Speaker 2: to contribute in some way, and I got a reputation
Speaker 2: as being that kind of ghost guy. So when somebody
Speaker 2: had a ghost story, they would say, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: Richard will bring a patient by later on. You should
Speaker 2: tell him your scary story. He's into all that stuff.
Speaker 2: And I realized that so many nurses, quite a few doctors,
Speaker 2: and a lot of patients have strange things happen to
Speaker 2: them when they're in hospital, and so I decided I
Speaker 2: ought to start collecting those and sharing them.
Speaker 1: Had you had stories of your own, not.
Speaker 2: One, it would be great if I did. Would But yeah,
Speaker 2: and people ask me that all the time, Well, have
Speaker 2: you experienced anything all at work? And the truth of
Speaker 2: it is that I'm usually focused so much on my scene,
Speaker 2: on my patient, and on what's going on that you
Speaker 2: could have a parade of headless horseman walk by and
Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't know this.
Speaker 1: Well, I can only imagine. I mean, it's so it's
Speaker 1: so intense, there's so much going on. Who knows what
Speaker 1: could be happening around you. I was talking to my dad,
Speaker 1: who is now he's retired, I think like thirty five
Speaker 1: years or so. He was a fireman and an EMT,
Speaker 1: and I asked him if he ever had any experiences
Speaker 1: and he said, not that he ever noticed, but he
Speaker 1: certainly believes in that stuff. But so have you talked
Speaker 1: to people that were EMTs that noticed these things?
Speaker 2: On many of them? In fact, one of the shows
Speaker 2: that I appear on, Paranormal nine one one is almost
Speaker 2: entirely composed of stories told by cops, firefighters, and EMS
Speaker 2: providers of their strange experiences on the job. And this
Speaker 2: is how I got a positioned as a talking head
Speaker 2: on that show.
Speaker 1: So I guess another question that I'm sure you've been
Speaker 1: asked them many times, and I kind of posted that
Speaker 1: you're going to be on the show, and I had
Speaker 1: had some of our listeners ask some questions, and if
Speaker 1: you wanted to know, basically, you know, doctors and nurses
Speaker 1: are educated scientifically, he minded a lot of the time,
Speaker 1: how do they rationalize these experiences? Do you find that
Speaker 1: they're believers.
Speaker 2: Usually find that there's a very different mindset ross between
Speaker 2: doctors and nurses. It interests me, and I have respect
Speaker 2: for both, of course, but nurses really run hospitals in
Speaker 2: the same way that sergeants run the army, you know.
Speaker 2: So doctors are the ones that will say, with no
Speaker 2: sense of irony at all, they'll say, oh, ghosts, yeah,
Speaker 2: ghosts and goblins. I don't believe in the stuff, you know.
Speaker 2: I have a scientific education, as nurses do also, you know,
Speaker 2: but I'm very well trained. I don't believe in this.
Speaker 2: It's garbage. And they'll take a breath and then say,
Speaker 2: but this one time, and they'll go on and tell
Speaker 2: me the story, you know, about how they pronounced the
Speaker 2: patient dead and then they started noticing that the doors
Speaker 2: would open and close themselves, the lights would switch on
Speaker 2: and off, the phone would ring, nobody would be there.
Speaker 2: And I will say, so, how do you explain that?
Speaker 2: And they'll just write it off and say, just one
Speaker 2: of those things.
Speaker 1: I work with comedians a lot, and I'm in venues
Speaker 1: all the time, and I'm always asking comedians if they
Speaker 1: have goat stories, and they're very I mean, they're not
Speaker 1: science minded people. Necessarily and they always do the same thing. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't believe that stuff, not not at all, but
Speaker 1: there was this one time and then they start going
Speaker 1: into it, and I love that. That's my favorite kind
Speaker 1: because how do you explain it?
Speaker 2: And right? And nurses, on the other hand, are pragmatists,
Speaker 2: in no disrespect to doctors, but nurses are the ones
Speaker 2: that will say, oh, yeah, yeah, we have that guy
Speaker 2: die and then you know, we three of us saw
Speaker 2: him in the whole way. He's just haven't moved on
Speaker 2: yet anyway. And now to them, it's it's almost, you know,
Speaker 2: the very polar opposite. They just seem to accept this stuff.
Speaker 2: That's been my experience with doctors and nurses anyway.
Speaker 1: Has there ever been a hospital that's abandoned that isn't haunted.
Speaker 1: I feel like they're they're always anytime there's like a jail,
Speaker 1: a hospital, an asylum, there aren't they always haunted once
Speaker 1: they're a.
Speaker 2: And it's it's yeah, I've yet to run into one.
Speaker 2: And I mean, to be fair, from a skeptical point
Speaker 2: of view, how predisposed are we to just think that
Speaker 2: those creepy old buildings are haunted? You know, I've walked in.
Speaker 2: I've walked into places so many times. I'm sure you
Speaker 2: have too, us where you say to yourself, if this
Speaker 2: place isn't haunted, it really should be. Oh yeah, but
Speaker 2: I mean I think hospitals are generally haunted because all
Speaker 2: of human life plays out on this fairly small stage.
Speaker 2: You know, you go to any given hospital on any
Speaker 2: given day, you have new lives entering the world. You know,
Speaker 2: babies are being born, new families are being made, which
Speaker 2: is a very joyful thing. And then you have people
Speaker 2: that are passing away, that are breathing their last and
Speaker 2: so you have grief and bereavement and intense sorrow. And
Speaker 2: it's been my experience that where one finds strong emotion
Speaker 2: of a positive or a negative nature, one also tends
Speaker 2: to find ghosts.
Speaker 1: Well in electricity, right, wouldn't you? I would think that
Speaker 1: the so much electricity in the.
Speaker 2: Air, well, that's true. And some interesting chemical compounds too,
Speaker 2: especially when you start looking at X ray departments and
Speaker 2: things of that nature.
Speaker 1: Are there, certain like is the word sections wards? What
Speaker 1: do we say are certain parts of the hospital that
Speaker 1: tend to have more activity?
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I would love to do some
Speaker 2: formal research into that, but I don't know to tell
Speaker 2: you the truth. I know that I've run into a
Speaker 2: haunted labor and delivery in a former hospital which was
Speaker 2: said to be haunted by the ghost of a tragic
Speaker 2: young lady that died in childbirth, and in that same
Speaker 2: labor and delivery they would hear the sound of babies
Speaker 2: crying and things of that nature. So I would go
Speaker 2: with emergency departments, though, simply because emergency departments see a
Speaker 2: lot of crisis by their very nature.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can only imagine all that trauma. So do
Speaker 1: you tend to be on the skeptical of this stuff?
Speaker 2: I think I do. But skeptic is a word that
Speaker 2: gets a bad rap. I mean, thanks to the X Files,
Speaker 2: you know, which I love, everyone associates skeptic with I
Speaker 2: refuse to believe no matter what when true. Skepticism really
Speaker 2: is just an attitude that says, these are some pretty
Speaker 2: wild and crazy claims, So what evidence supports them? And
Speaker 2: to how many decimal places? You know? Yes, So I
Speaker 2: think that's the only rational attitude to have to anything
Speaker 2: in life, not just the paranormal, but anything you see
Speaker 2: on your social media feed or on TV or anything
Speaker 2: you're told on any subject, I mean, within reason, right, But.
Speaker 1: Are there paranormal investigators that are kind of more close
Speaker 1: minded and just want to be proved wrong?
Speaker 2: I think there are some. That we all have our
Speaker 2: personal biases, every single one of us, and frankly, there
Speaker 2: are some that have their own personal agendas. You know,
Speaker 2: It's amazing what you'll be willing to believe if there's
Speaker 2: if there's a TV contract in it for you. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think that's sadly true, and we always have to
Speaker 2: guard against that, you know. But there are those that
Speaker 2: I think are a little too open minded or too credulous,
Speaker 2: I should say, and those who are a little too
Speaker 2: closed off. And I'll also say I've been guilty of
Speaker 2: both of those things during my career. So it's not
Speaker 2: like I'm a saint, but having the intellectual integrity to
Speaker 2: ask yourself, you know, am I not asking enough questions? Here?
Speaker 2: Am I? Am I being too accepting or too narrow minded?
Speaker 2: That's the key. You know, You're trying to walk that
Speaker 2: fine line between excessive belief and excessive disbelief.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you get scared of stuff on occasion?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that As much as people might like
Speaker 2: to puff up their chest and say they don't. There
Speaker 2: is a p of all of us, a deeply primal
Speaker 2: part of all of us, that is scared of the dark,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, we are wired that way. So
Speaker 2: I'm usually pretty good with it, but every once in
Speaker 2: a while, for no apparent reason, I will just get
Speaker 2: overcome with a sense of fear. And I usually can't
Speaker 2: explain it. It's not when something's happening. It's just a
Speaker 2: sense of being massively creeped out. And I suspect that psychics,
Speaker 2: medium sensitives call them what they will, call them what
Speaker 2: you will would say, you know that my body is
Speaker 2: picking up on something that I'm not consciously able to detect,
Speaker 2: And I certainly wouldn't disagree with that. It's entirely possible.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it does happen, but the feeling always passes,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Do you believe in like dark forces, demons, all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff that we love to talk about, at least.
Speaker 2: Well we are in the United States. Isn't it mandatory
Speaker 2: that you believe in demons?
Speaker 1: Yeah? As well, And that's and that's another question I
Speaker 1: have for you, is is the difference between the British
Speaker 1: belief of the paranormal and America. You know broadly strokes
Speaker 1: what you found.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not I'm not gonna throw shade, but you
Speaker 2: know I'll be shade.
Speaker 1: We do that here. You're talking to a drag queen.
Speaker 1: Don't tell me like a throw shade. We invented shade. Honey.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna throw shade, but I will, I will,
Speaker 2: I will be as respectful as I can. So I
Speaker 2: truly believe that we have to. You know that old
Speaker 2: saying that you you have to respect everybody's beliefs no
Speaker 2: matter what. I think it's garbage. I think what we
Speaker 2: have to do is we have to respect everybody's right
Speaker 2: to hold their beliefs. Yes, okay, And there's a real
Speaker 2: difference there. You know, if you want to believe the
Speaker 2: earth is flat, that's your constitutional right, knock yourself out.
Speaker 2: But I don't have to respect that belief itself, you know, Yes.
Speaker 2: And so in the same way, if you are a
Speaker 2: person of faith and you are a big believer in
Speaker 2: demonic forces and things of that nature, I absolutely respect
Speaker 2: your right to that. And I won't even say it's
Speaker 2: not the case that such things don't exist. I think
Speaker 2: that would be quite arrogant of me, but I will
Speaker 2: say that I think they are massively, massively overblown and
Speaker 2: the media is to blame. I began in nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: five ross first as a paranorl investigator in the UK,
Speaker 2: and there was no Ghost Adventures, there was no Most Haunted,
Speaker 2: Ghost Hunters, nothing on TV until I want to say,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, two thousand, so.
Speaker 1: But the earth was still flat back then, right.
Speaker 2: Right, You mean it isn't. But what that meant was
Speaker 2: that I ran on very very few cases which were
Speaker 2: considered dark or negative. You know, most of them were
Speaker 2: actually very pleasant hauntings. Even the poltergeist cases were more
Speaker 2: playful than malign. And without naming names. Things changed sometime
Speaker 2: between two thousand and five and two thousand and when
Speaker 2: some TV personalities began to encounter demons on a weekly basis.
Speaker 2: Everything was a possession, everything was dark, everything was demonic,
Speaker 2: because that's great for ratings, right.
Speaker 1: The devil got a good publicist, absolutely.
Speaker 2: And so I've been reading and looking at the literature
Speaker 2: of the paranormal for all this time as well. You
Speaker 2: look at the greats, you look at the Society for
Speaker 2: Psychical Research, you look at the Harry Prices of this World,
Speaker 2: for example, they did not report demon after demon after demon,
Speaker 2: and yet some media personalities have done that, and that
Speaker 2: has led to a landslide because demons are good for ratings,
Speaker 2: and they're good for book sales, you know. And I
Speaker 2: think it's once the history of this period of paranormal
Speaker 2: research comes to be written, we're going to look very
Speaker 2: a scance at this cavalcade of darkness and evil and
Speaker 2: forth and demonology. You know. Do I think that there
Speaker 2: are negative entities out there? Absolutely? I do. Do I
Speaker 2: think that every time somebody is scratched or growl that
Speaker 2: that they're dealing with the Alzebub or whatever demon you
Speaker 2: want to name, Absolutely not. Does that does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Definitely.
Speaker 2: Now what do you think I like to hear your opinion?
Speaker 1: Well, I'm still trying to figure that one out. I
Speaker 1: I believe, well, first of all, most of the knowledge
Speaker 1: that I have, or or any opinions I have on
Speaker 1: the paranormal is mainly it's from uh limited experiences of
Speaker 1: my own, but from just gathering, you know, hearing people's stories,
Speaker 1: and from what I am starting to think more and more,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's kind of person to person. I think
Speaker 1: that there's there's forces in this world that are specifically negative,
Speaker 1: and I think that they can manifest in different ways
Speaker 1: for different people. I think that maybe fear is what
Speaker 1: motivates them, and so if you are afraid of the
Speaker 1: devil from the Bible, maybe it will manifest. Is the
Speaker 1: devil from the Bible? Oh yeah, That's just where I'm
Speaker 1: at right now. But I'm constantly very open to hearing
Speaker 1: more and more different things.
Speaker 2: Well, and that seems very reasonable to me as well.
Speaker 2: But I think we love to label as a species.
Speaker 2: We are labelers, you know. So if you're a person
Speaker 2: of a Christian faith based system, then the negative is demonic, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I'm more credulous of that specific label than i
Speaker 2: am the concept behind it. And I also think there's
Speaker 2: a real tendency for us to want to or to
Speaker 2: be tempted to misinterpret these things. So, for example, if
Speaker 2: we have an aggressive or a frightened individual who passes away,
Speaker 2: and that person tries to communicate with the living as
Speaker 2: best they can, you know, they will maybe throw things,
Speaker 2: scratch people, yell, scream, angry in life, angry and death.
Speaker 2: Thanks to Hollywood and a hundred good paranormal stories. We
Speaker 2: are tempted to write this off as being an aggressive, malevolent,
Speaker 2: maybe demonic spirit when it could be nothing more than
Speaker 2: a confused, frustrated, terrified spirit of a human being.
Speaker 1: Mm well, I also always think about I mean, I've
Speaker 1: talked about this on the show before, but you know,
Speaker 1: I know some people that are goth or cosplayers or
Speaker 1: whatever it is that they might look like, and I
Speaker 1: think that someone could see them with the devil horned
Speaker 1: headband that they wear sometimes as a ghost and be like,
Speaker 1: oh my God, the Devil's here. I know some people
Speaker 1: that were crazy color contacts. I know people that were fangs,
Speaker 1: so their goes in the future could very well make
Speaker 1: people think that they're doing.
Speaker 2: You never know. But and again, you know, no disrespect
Speaker 2: to those that believe have a certain belief system. If
Speaker 2: you're a Christian, I respect your rights that if you're
Speaker 2: a Muslim, I respect that. I'm an agnostic personally, you know.
Speaker 2: I used to say atheist, and then my grandmother said
Speaker 2: go with agnostic, Richard, because God's got lightning and Darwin doesn't.
Speaker 2: So you know, always head your bets right. But I
Speaker 2: am also I do believe in some kind of other
Speaker 2: realm highest state of being. I don't know what to
Speaker 2: call it, and that's why I'm still poking around dulk
Speaker 2: buildings after all these years trying to answer those questions.
Speaker 2: But I certainly don't want to disrespect those that have
Speaker 2: a specific belief system.
Speaker 1: Right well, I want to take it back to hospitals
Speaker 1: for for a few more moments. Have you found while
Speaker 1: still talking about like dark stuff, have you have you
Speaker 1: heard that people you know, find those kinds of forces
Speaker 1: in hospitals.
Speaker 2: I've suddenly heard a number of negative experiences coming from hospitals,
Speaker 2: and we featured a lot of them on the show
Speaker 2: Haunted Hospitals. But you are just as likely to experience
Speaker 2: something positive too. So I think that people are very
Speaker 2: vulnerable when they're in the hospital. Sometimes you're dealing with
Speaker 2: altered states of being. People are on medications that are
Speaker 2: that sedate them, you know that that drop their barriers.
Speaker 2: And on the one hand, as a as a medical professional,
Speaker 2: I think if you're on a cocktail of medications, you
Speaker 2: know that can be inducing all kinds of hallucinations, and
Speaker 2: hallucinations can affect all of the senses. It doesn't just
Speaker 2: mean you're seeing things. There are medications out there which
Speaker 2: will give you very vivid paranormal encounters as a side effect.
Speaker 2: But on the flip side, I also think it's possible
Speaker 2: that when you are medicated in a certain way, it
Speaker 2: may open the doors doors that are normally close to
Speaker 2: us as part of our everyday mental states. It may
Speaker 2: open doors and allow us to experience something that is
Speaker 2: that is actually genuine, but beyond the grasp of everyday life.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm a big believer in that too.
Speaker 2: Have you.
Speaker 1: I have like, let me just fire off like a
Speaker 1: bunch of hospital questions, have you encountered? And again, I
Speaker 1: know that these are like so like broad questions, But
Speaker 1: have you heard of machinery in hospitals ever? You know,
Speaker 1: being having an attachment or something like that.
Speaker 2: I don't know about having an attachment, but certainly machinery
Speaker 2: or equipment malfunctioning is common. One that I hear a
Speaker 2: lot is when you have a room in which your
Speaker 2: patient is passed away. Nurses will often report that they
Speaker 2: get the call light from that room will start blinking
Speaker 2: as if there's somebody in there calling for help and
Speaker 2: yet the room is completely empty. That happens very frequently.
Speaker 1: Oh, Wow. When it comes to goos in hospitals, do
Speaker 1: you hear more stories of like a temporary ghost or
Speaker 1: are there mainstays that have been there for decades? What
Speaker 1: does it tend to be in a hospital, Because there's
Speaker 1: so much traffic going in now, so I'm not sure
Speaker 1: what it would be like both.
Speaker 2: Really, I'm saying the majority of cases that I've looked
Speaker 2: at have been more of the temporary kind, somebody that
Speaker 2: is perhaps deceased and hasn't moved on. But there are
Speaker 2: some long term ghosts as well. I mean, one of
Speaker 2: the larger, more historic hospitals in Britain has the ghost
Speaker 2: of a nurse that has been there now for more
Speaker 2: than a century. And the reason she's believe to haunt
Speaker 2: the place she accidentally overdosed her own fiance on morphine
Speaker 2: and killed him, and she was so racked with remorse
Speaker 2: she took her own life, or so the story goes.
Speaker 2: And she's seen whenever opioid's, morphine, fent and all those
Speaker 2: kind of medications are being used, and it's believed that
Speaker 2: she appears just to offer a reminder of Hey, these
Speaker 2: drugs can be dangerous. Take it from me, check your
Speaker 2: dosin carefully.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, So.
Speaker 2: That's that's almost a spirit that's providing a service. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Or it feels honest, as if she's she's paying off
Speaker 2: some self imposed penance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure that's oh, that's that's sad, but it's
Speaker 1: you know, it seems like she's probably almost a guardian angel.
Speaker 1: Some people would say, yes, would you. Uh, this is
Speaker 1: a question I wonder about all hauntings, but I'm curious
Speaker 1: about hospitals as well. Do you find that go like
Speaker 1: when someone dies, do they go back to how they
Speaker 1: want to look or do they go back to you
Speaker 1: how they looked when they died? Like, how does that happen?
Speaker 2: Having talked to quite a few mediums, I mean when
Speaker 2: we talk about intelligent hauntings versus residual a residual haunting
Speaker 2: is the equivalent I think of a movie or a snapshot.
Speaker 2: You know, it's an imprint of how something looks at
Speaker 2: the time it was imprinted. But with intelligent haunts, a
Speaker 2: number of mediums I've spoken to have said that we
Speaker 2: get to pick our own form in spirit, which thank goodness,
Speaker 2: because I would much rather be twenty one year old
Speaker 2: me in appearance anyway than forty seven year old me.
Speaker 1: Do you get to change your outfits all the time?
Speaker 1: What do they tell you? Because I have.
Speaker 2: Those is important to you? Yes? Yeah, Well there's that
Speaker 2: whole thing about be careful what you wear today because
Speaker 2: that's your ghost outfit for it forever, of course, And
Speaker 2: let's hope that's not the case. I do.
Speaker 1: I definitely think about that. I mean, I've got wigs,
Speaker 1: I got. I just need to I need a warning
Speaker 1: before I die. What about astral projection during surgery? That's
Speaker 1: something I was just stick crossed my mind. Have you
Speaker 1: ever heard of that happening?
Speaker 2: You know, I've heard of it more frequently. Yes, I've
Speaker 2: heard of it happening during surgery, but I've heard of
Speaker 2: it happening most frequently during a resuscitation, So someone is
Speaker 2: being given emergent surgery after sustaining, say a very severe
Speaker 2: severe car crash. But quite often you hear of that
Speaker 2: happening when somebody is being resuscitated. And there are many,
Speaker 2: many accounts of patients floating out of their body and
Speaker 2: watching what's happening in the room, and then coming back
Speaker 2: being saved and being able to accurately recount things that
Speaker 2: the physicians and nurses have said, you know, and at
Speaker 2: the time that brain was in a state a very
Speaker 2: low blood flow. They may well have been given hard
Speaker 2: core sedatives, and yet they're able to accurately recall things
Speaker 2: that they should never have been able to perceive. And
Speaker 2: they can talk about where a certain doctor was standing,
Speaker 2: what he or she said when they reach for a
Speaker 2: specific piece of equipment, and I find those very impressive. Indeed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, I'm so fascinated by that. That's something that
Speaker 1: I've really not heard much about. I mean, I started
Speaker 1: really getting to the paranormal all the past few years,
Speaker 1: but it's something that blows my mind. This whole idea
Speaker 1: of like ghosts of the living and I guess astro projection.
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by it. Have you experienced that outside of hospitals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there was a landmark study done at
Speaker 2: the turn of the nineteenth twentieth century the year escapes me,
Speaker 2: but a huge study done by the Society of psycho Research,
Speaker 2: and Apparitions of the Living proved to be extremely common,
Speaker 2: which blows away the whole theory of ghost just being
Speaker 2: dead people, doesn't it. So Yeah, I do think that
Speaker 2: probably happens more often than we realize. What fascinates me
Speaker 2: is that we now live in a world where we
Speaker 2: are on camera more times each day than at any
Speaker 2: other point in human history. You know, you go to
Speaker 2: the store, you're on camera, you're driving, you're on camera.
Speaker 2: It makes me wonder how many people that are recorded
Speaker 2: on those cameras are actually apparitions. And you know that
Speaker 2: there's a big contentious debate at the moment about facial
Speaker 2: recognition software. You know what I would love to see.
Speaker 2: I would love to see someday facial recognition software that's
Speaker 2: capable of recognizing the faces of the deceased, and how
Speaker 2: many of them are wandering around their old neighborhoods.
Speaker 1: Oh God, I hate the Do you want to hear
Speaker 1: some ghost voices?
Speaker 2: Boys?
Speaker 1: Okay, it's time for EVP or ev plice. So I
Speaker 1: go to YouTube and I find EVPs and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give people the benefit of the doubt because it's it's
Speaker 1: hard to do this because I'm you know, when I'm
Speaker 1: in a studio, it's a little bit easy there to
Speaker 1: hear them. But I looked for some hospital ones on
Speaker 1: the internet. I thought they were pretty good. But I'm
Speaker 1: wondering what you hear, So either let me know what
Speaker 1: you hear, or you know. I'll give you some options
Speaker 1: and you could guess what the researcher believes.
Speaker 2: That they heard.
Speaker 1: Okay, this first one is from touring History on YouTube
Speaker 1: and it is at the Yorktown Memorial Hospital the Great Yorktown, Texas.
Speaker 1: Have you heard stories of this place?
Speaker 2: I wrote about it in my book The World's Most
Speaker 2: Haunted Hospitals, and it has a an incredible reputation for
Speaker 2: being haunted. I've yet to make it out there, but
Speaker 2: it's on my bucket list.
Speaker 1: Is it still like operational?
Speaker 2: No, it's been for quite some time.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, here is the EVP. Tell me what you hear? Richard?
Speaker 1: Do you hear anything?
Speaker 2: Can I get that again? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Of course. So there's a little bit of background noise,
Speaker 1: but there's a like on top of it, so it's
Speaker 1: kind of a whispery. I'll play it one more time.
Speaker 2: It does sound like a whisper. I would call that
Speaker 2: a class C though, and I wouldn't presume to guess
Speaker 2: what it says.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, here's some options. Is it a nosy? Is
Speaker 1: it B no say? Which is Spanish for I don't know?
Speaker 1: Is it C honestly or D ghost me.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with a nose.
Speaker 1: Okay, let me play it.
Speaker 2: I think that's what spirits thinking.
Speaker 1: That's what I would assume too. I think about that
Speaker 1: all the time, like, okay, nosey. Let me just like
Speaker 1: enjoy my abandoned hospital.
Speaker 2: Yeah wait, let me play.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's nosy, that's what they thought it was. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me play you one more. And this one is
Speaker 1: from Planet Paranormal Investigations on YouTube. I love this one.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: This one is from a place that I'm sure you've
Speaker 1: heard of. It's here in LA. It's the Linda Vista Hospital.
Speaker 2: Oh again, on my bucket list apartments.
Speaker 1: I heard that they turned it into yeah, like senior
Speaker 1: senior living, but I have not heard. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know how I would, but I haven't really heard
Speaker 1: anybody reporting of any activity nowadays. But I'm sure it
Speaker 1: has to be happening. That place is like an iconic
Speaker 1: haunted hospital. Okay, what does this one say? It's real quick,
Speaker 1: I'll play it again. You hear anything, I.
Speaker 2: Hear a noise. I don't know that I would call
Speaker 2: it a word.
Speaker 1: Okay, let me play it one more time.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: Let me give you some options. Is it a Bye Girl, B,
Speaker 1: why not C Spider or D my nuts?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm gonna go with my nuts because it's
Speaker 2: a subject that did near and did to my aunt.
Speaker 1: It is actually what they thought it said. They thought
Speaker 1: it said my nuts. Let me play it.
Speaker 2: Again, Okay, alrighty.
Speaker 1: That's what they said. Okay, Richard, I'm just reporting.
Speaker 2: And who am I to gainsay them?
Speaker 1: Well, Richard, I want to I want to hear about
Speaker 1: a couple more of your books before we wrap this
Speaker 1: baby up. Can you tell me a little bit about
Speaker 1: the Black Monk of Punk Diffract, which is I know
Speaker 1: a little bit about that, and I find it very fascinating,
Speaker 1: But you've recently written a book about it, so can
Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about it?
Speaker 2: I have. I co wrote that book with my friend
Speaker 2: Bill Bungy, and so essentially this was one of those
Speaker 2: cases where I've been really fortunate ras the more books
Speaker 2: I've written, the more TV work I've done, it it
Speaker 2: opens doors every so often for me, opportunities that are
Speaker 2: on my bucket list. And growing up as a kid,
Speaker 2: one of the books that fasten me was called Poltergeist,
Speaker 2: a study in Destructive Haunting by Colin Wilson, which I
Speaker 2: highly recommend to your readers. It's still in print even
Speaker 2: though Colin died a few years ago, and that the
Speaker 2: main case in that book was the Black Monk of Pontefract,
Speaker 2: which was a poltergeist outbreak in an ordinary, very small
Speaker 2: house in the UK in England, and this outbreak basically
Speaker 2: afflicted this family for many years. They started to as
Speaker 2: most pot gust cases are. It began playfully, you know,
Speaker 2: there was a strange reign of powder came down from
Speaker 2: the air in the kitchen. Keys began to fall down
Speaker 2: the chimney, old keys like brass keys, you know, that
Speaker 2: didn't belong in the house. Footsteps started being heard in
Speaker 2: the house, all these strange things. And then finally this tall,
Speaker 2: dark hooded figure appeared and terrified the members of this
Speaker 2: family and they named him the Black Monk of Pontefract
Speaker 2: because the area around which the house is located, monks
Speaker 2: were known to work that land hundreds of years ago,
Speaker 2: and there was an urban legend, and it is an
Speaker 2: urban legend. There's no truth behind the story that we
Speaker 2: know that this monk had sexually assaulted a young girl
Speaker 2: murdered her and thrown her body down a well on
Speaker 2: the site of this house, which makes for a great
Speaker 2: horror story, but there's not a shred of evidence to
Speaker 2: support it whatsoever. But this Polsygeist case was so violent
Speaker 2: and it made national news back in the sixties. You
Speaker 2: would have reporters camping out outside the house trying to
Speaker 2: take photographs of the Black Monk, and then the case
Speaker 2: kind of died away over the years. It was one
Speaker 2: of those classic cases. I'd always wondered what happened, and
Speaker 2: then they made a horror movie about it back in
Speaker 2: twenty eleven twenty twelve called When the Lights Went Out. Great,
Speaker 2: great movie, and that brought this new slew of interest
Speaker 2: in the house. People started getting started wondering what actually
Speaker 2: happened to the Black Monk. And it turned out that
Speaker 2: the house was still active and the family that had
Speaker 2: suffered at the hands of the polticu I sold it
Speaker 2: to the guy that produced the movie, No Less. He
Speaker 2: wanted to have the movie premiere in the house. What
Speaker 2: the movie was about, I mean, that's brilliant, isn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And so you know, people that came to the house
Speaker 2: started to report strange goings on, and so I reached
Speaker 2: out to the movie producer and said, would it be
Speaker 2: possible for me to come spend some time there? And
Speaker 2: he didn't ask me for a dime, He said absolutely,
Speaker 2: I'll give you the keys to the house. You can
Speaker 2: move in for a week. All I ask is that
Speaker 2: you write the truth about what you experience. And so
Speaker 2: I took three of my fellow investigators from the US,
Speaker 2: we flew over and a couple of my fellow British
Speaker 2: friends and we moved in and we lived with the
Speaker 2: Black Monk of Pontefract for a week and it was
Speaker 2: just a crazy location.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's a very pictures from there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's people have caught, you know, images of the Black Monk.
Speaker 2: Right well, they believe that they have. I mean, what
Speaker 2: fascinates me about it is it's such a controversial case.
Speaker 2: Many people today say that, you know, the house is
Speaker 2: not haunted at all, This whole thing is a money
Speaker 2: making scam, which all I can say to that is
Speaker 2: we definitely experienced paranormal activity inside the house. We had
Speaker 2: a mirror smash itself. We had one of my colleagues, Charlie,
Speaker 2: was scratched three long scratches across his back, which happened
Speaker 2: right in front of our eyes. Crazy crazy things going on,
Speaker 2: and several vps. So, but the house freaks me out
Speaker 2: unlike any other place I've investigated, not because of the
Speaker 2: Black Monk believed or not, but because the way that
Speaker 2: it has been left. It's like a time capsule from
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies and eighties. So I instantly like regressed
Speaker 2: in age thirty five years when I stepped into that house,
Speaker 2: and not in a good way. It creeps you out
Speaker 2: so bad. There's an old Beta Max video recorder there
Speaker 2: with a bunch of tapes and things like that, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's like being back in time. So very very
Speaker 2: creepy house. One of my fellow investigators, she came in,
Speaker 2: she'd been in the house maybe ten minutes, and she's
Speaker 2: projectile vomiting for no obvious reason. Has a very strange atmosphere.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so it's an ordinary house. If you didn't
Speaker 2: know its history, you would walk by it and not
Speaker 2: give it a second glance. It looks absolutely nothing like
Speaker 2: the archetypal haunted house that we see on TV or
Speaker 2: in the movies.
Speaker 1: That producer he just owns it I mean, does he
Speaker 1: like rent it out to other investigators or what's going on?
Speaker 2: He does, he rents it out to investigators and allows
Speaker 2: people to do their own research there. Some people will
Speaker 2: just spend the night there because they've always wanted to,
Speaker 2: and the experiences they have ranged from absolutely crazy to
Speaker 2: not a thing happened, which is the paranormal all over. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, you never know what you're going to get.
Speaker 1: Well, that's how I also always feel let terms with
Speaker 1: like like TV investigations and stuff like that, Like if
Speaker 1: you're gonna spend like two days there, it's kind of
Speaker 1: hard to determine, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, But he the producer, is very very rational
Speaker 2: about it. He became convinced the house was haunted when
Speaker 2: an object materialized in front of his face in thin air.
Speaker 2: He became an instant convert and he will not spend
Speaker 2: the night in that house anymore. He just won't. In fact,
Speaker 2: you should have him on your show. He'd be a
Speaker 2: great guest.
Speaker 1: Okay, you've written like so many books. Are you working
Speaker 1: on any right now?
Speaker 2: I'm always working on something new. I'm walking on a
Speaker 2: book now about the Monroe House in Indiana. Have you
Speaker 2: heard of it?
Speaker 1: You know I have because I've looked up I was
Speaker 1: actually just recently looking up EVPs and I kept getting
Speaker 1: I was looking for EVPs in the Roosevelt Hotel, which
Speaker 1: is here in LA and people say Marilyn Monroe haunts it.
Speaker 1: And then it just started leading meeting this Monroe House,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, what's this. So that's my
Speaker 1: limited knowledge, but what's going on with that?
Speaker 2: I know you just had Katrina on your show right twice.
Speaker 1: I love Katrina.
Speaker 2: I do too. She's a friend of mine. And I
Speaker 2: asked her, actually when you reached out to me and
Speaker 2: I said, hey, is this a good show? And she said, oh,
Speaker 2: you have to do it. You have a great time.
Speaker 2: And she was right. But Katrina and Nick had investigated
Speaker 2: them in her row house on Paranormal Lockdown, and it's
Speaker 2: it's again a fairly ordinary house, except for the fact
Speaker 2: that there are human remains buried beneath it and nobody
Speaker 2: knows whose they are. So I did the same thing.
Speaker 2: I was invited to go spend a few days and
Speaker 2: nights living at the Monroe House investigating. And so that
Speaker 2: was last year, which shows you how long it takes
Speaker 2: me to write a book and I'm just finishing that
Speaker 2: manuscript now. I hope to have it out by November,
Speaker 2: by Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1: Great, how do you pick these places? I mean, are
Speaker 1: you just you know, just keeping your ears open for great,
Speaker 1: great stuff, or I mean it's it's pretty incredible when
Speaker 1: I look at on your website, like, there's just so
Speaker 1: many different topics that you focus on. Yeah, what do
Speaker 1: you look like?
Speaker 2: I'm like a kid in a candy store, which would
Speaker 2: explain my waistline. Really, I just I hear from other investigators,
Speaker 2: and it's a fairly small community, right, And when a
Speaker 2: place has good word of mouth, it has a good
Speaker 2: reputation from people that have been there. If it's somebody
Speaker 2: that I respect, I will start to put out feelers
Speaker 2: and see how many people have experienced strange things. And
Speaker 2: if I hear from four or five reputable investigators that
Speaker 2: are place is legit, I will reach out to the
Speaker 2: owner and ask, you know what it would take for
Speaker 2: me to be allowed to tell its stories best I can?
Speaker 1: Great, Well, can you just tell people where they can
Speaker 1: find you and find your books and all that good
Speaker 1: stuff you want to plug away?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, Well, if you're in Colorado, you can down
Speaker 2: name on one and you'll find me. But let's not
Speaker 2: meet like that. Come see me online at www dot
Speaker 2: Richard S. Step dot net. That's Richard E. S t
Speaker 2: ep dot net. Or come look me up on Facebook
Speaker 2: Richard Step author. If you're the kind of person that
Speaker 2: listens to the show, you're my kind of people. So
Speaker 2: I love chatting about the paranormal.
Speaker 1: Wait, that just reminded me when you said Colorado. I'm
Speaker 1: so obsessed with the Stanley Hotel. Have you had experiences there?
Speaker 2: Well? To be fair, I did ghost tours there for
Speaker 2: three years. I gave the tours there, Oh you did?
Speaker 2: I did, and I loved the hotel. It was a
Speaker 2: great place to work. I worked with some amazing people
Speaker 2: there as well, and it absolutely does deserve its reputation.
Speaker 2: In my experience, it is haunted as all get out.
Speaker 1: Cool. Oh wait, can I get like a short story
Speaker 1: from what happened there? Like just one?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean probably my favorite was that we did
Speaker 2: tours for twenty people. Because this was pre COVID, So
Speaker 2: in the concert hall we have a concert hall at
Speaker 2: the hotel. We would sit up on the balcony and
Speaker 2: I would talk about the ghosts of the concert hole
Speaker 2: and one summer's night. This would be about six o'clock, so,
Speaker 2: you know, still bright daylight, and below us, below the balcony,
Speaker 2: on the floor of the concert hall, we heard this
Speaker 2: pounding of heavy footsteps, as if some big guy in
Speaker 2: boots was walking across the floor. And so I look over.
Speaker 2: I don't see anybody. Twenty other people look over the balcony.
Speaker 2: We don't see anybody. And this is one of the
Speaker 2: documented phenomena of the concert hall. But I thought we
Speaker 2: were being played, because people, especially when they've had a
Speaker 2: few drinks, love to mess with the ghost tours. So
Speaker 2: I thought somebody had gone down to the basement, had
Speaker 2: gotten a broom handle and was banging it on the ceiling,
Speaker 2: you know, faking these footsteps. So I grabbed two people
Speaker 2: from my tour. We went downstairs. We split up, and
Speaker 2: we searched every inch of that basement. And I know
Speaker 2: where all the hiding places are, and of course, not
Speaker 2: a living soul to be found.
Speaker 1: Ooh, that's good. Now, did you ride a tricycle through
Speaker 1: the hallway when you would have tours? That's what I wanted.
Speaker 2: I would have I would have loved the opportunity. I
Speaker 2: really really would well I.
Speaker 1: Am so so grateful that you came on the show.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to chat with you. I hope you
Speaker 1: come on again. If you have another book, when your
Speaker 1: next books come out or whatever, please come by and
Speaker 1: let's talk about them.
Speaker 2: I would be delighted. Thank you so much for inviting
Speaker 2: me on Ross.
Speaker 1: Special. Thank you to Richard. And if you want to
Speaker 1: hear that bonus clip of me with Richard and the
Speaker 1: ghost of John Wayne Gacy, go to pay dot com
Speaker 1: slash roz dress Fales and you'll see that video of
Speaker 1: me driving around Hollywood's spooky locations. Please join the Facebook
Speaker 1: group called Ghosted by rozdres Fales. It's a great place
Speaker 1: to share your story if you'd like me to read
Speaker 1: it on the show, or you can write it in
Speaker 1: a five star review on Apple Podcasts and give the
Speaker 1: show five stars. And if you don't have a ghost story,
Speaker 1: you can just write like a nice thing about me.
Speaker 1: That'd be great. It really helps the show out. I'm
Speaker 1: on cameo at Rozdresfales again. The patreon is Patreon dot com,
Speaker 1: slash rozdres Fales, venmo Queen Roz Instagram, rozdres Fales I'm
Speaker 1: all over the place. And if you have a ghost
Speaker 1: story that you want me to, like, talk to you
Speaker 1: on the phone and we'll talk about it and we'll
Speaker 1: record it and we'll put it on a listener episode.
Speaker 1: Please send those to me. Email me at ghosted by
Speaker 1: Roz at gmail dot com with the subject line listener episode.
Speaker 1: I want to record one of those real soon, so
Speaker 1: make sure you get them to me. All right, I
Speaker 1: love you all, both living and dead. But if I
Speaker 1: didn't ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me. Hey
Speaker 1: By Stars, a podcast network