1 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: What's that at the foot of my bed. It's spooky 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: and JOOKI, I'm pretty sure it's dead. It's coming this way. 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, he I'm go, said tyro Jeens. Hey boo, 4 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: it's me Raz. Now I'm just gonna give you a 5 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: heads up right off the bat. I am recording this 6 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: on Monday of this week, November second, the day before 7 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: election day. So as I'm recording this, I don't know 8 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: what's going on by the time you're listening to this. 9 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: Hopefully good news, who knows, But today we're gonna talk 10 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: about ghosts, so hopefully you know, you'll enjoy this conversation 11 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: that I had because I hit up somebody really cool. 12 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: His name is Richard Estep, and he is a writer 13 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: of tons of different paranormal books, but he definitely has 14 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: like an expertise when it comes to haunted hospitals. And 15 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: a couple of months back, I was talking about haunted 16 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 1: hospitals and how you know, I didn't know a ton 17 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: of stories or you know, just stuff about haunted hospitals, 18 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: and then a wonderful listener of the show, Patrick hit 19 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: me up and was like, Hey, you got to talk 20 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: to Richard. Richard knows what's up, and so I'm so happy, 21 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: Thank you Patrick for the recommendation. And I'd like to 22 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: dedicate this episode to the healthcare workers and you know, 23 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: all that they've been through this year, and the hard 24 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: work and the all the scariness and the risks that 25 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: they put themselves through. I know it's kind of a 26 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: weird thing to dedicate or we're talking about your work 27 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: being haunted possibly, but you know, we do weird things here, 28 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: and healthcare workers, I see you and I appreciate you. 29 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: Speaking of I thought it would be fitting to read 30 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: this listener story. This comes from Kevin, who posted in 31 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: the Facebook group called Ghosted by rasdres Fales. Kevin writes, 32 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: I knew I had to finally write in when something 33 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: strange happened at work this week. I work at a 34 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: skilled nursing facility, a nursing home in the rehab department. 35 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: I'm an occupational therapist assistant. Sometimes, when working with a patient, 36 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: I'll use a video game system with a motion capture 37 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: camera similar to Connect that shows the patient's joint movements 38 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: with a stick figure and body outline in a box 39 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: in the lower left corner of the screen. This is 40 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: to evaluate range of motion. The camera will also show 41 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: this kind of figure for anyone else standing close by, 42 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: such as myself. One day earlier this week, I was 43 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: using this with a patient and there were only a 44 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: few other people in the gym at the time. I 45 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: noticed the bottom of the screen showed my patient on 46 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: the left, myself and someone else standing next to me 47 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: on my right. Between me and the cabinet, there was 48 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: nobody there, only a stick figure on the screen with 49 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: no body outline, just a very tall stick figure standing 50 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: there as if watching us play the game. I thought 51 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: that was strange, and I knew this kind of camera 52 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: has been used in ghost hunting. Yes, I believe that 53 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: is an SLS camera that you were talking about. Very 54 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 1: popular on you know, those ghost hunting shows like Ghost Adventures, 55 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: which ps I watched. I don't know if you guys saw. 56 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: I'll get back to the story in a moment, but 57 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: Ghost Adventures did a ghost hunt at the former Joe 58 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: Exotic Zoo and I watched it. It was it was 59 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: pretty good. I enjoyed it. I mean, I just like 60 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: my favorite thing about ghost shows like that is I 61 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: like to just see people go into different places and 62 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: interacting with the people that live and work there, and 63 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: it was it was very interesting to see the Joe 64 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: exotic place because I certainly like everyone else to watch 65 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: that documentary, So yeah, check it out. Anyway, back to 66 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: the story, Sorry about that. I couldn't freak out because 67 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: I had my patient with me. I had to maintain 68 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: my professionalism, so I calmly tried to debunk this quote 69 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: ghost while seated next to my patient, who was obviously 70 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: enjoying the game. I looked behind and around me for 71 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: other people that the camera may be capturing. Now, I 72 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: checked for reflections no. I reached out into the area. 73 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: I felt nothing, and the figure moved. I opened the 74 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: cabinet door. This obscured the camera's vision of the figure, 75 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: but I closed the door and the ghost was still there. 76 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: I did it again, same thing. I had to tell 77 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: someone because the few coworkers present were busy and I 78 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: didn't want to interrupt them. Fast forward to later in 79 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: the week. I was with another patient using the same 80 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: video system, but this time I was co treating the 81 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: patient with a colleague. No strange figures were present. This time. 82 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: I decided to tell my coworker what happened and what 83 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: I saw. Given the reputation of hospitals and nursing homes. 84 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: No one is really surprised by this sort of thing. 85 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: But then I to treat my next patient in her room. 86 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: She was seated on the side of her bed and 87 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: I was explaining the standardized test I was about to 88 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: use to assess her dynamic sitting balance when she and 89 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: I heard a voice to my left. We were the 90 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: only ones in the room. When we looked over, we 91 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: saw a roll of clear plastic trash bags had fallen 92 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: from its place on the wall and proceeded to roll 93 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: across a desk and fall to the floor. We both 94 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: looked at each other strangely, as if to say, eh, 95 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,559 Speaker 1: that was weird, because nothing could have knocked it off. 96 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: All of a sudden, I got really cold in goosebumps 97 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: sprang up all over my body. My patient did not 98 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: seem to be having the same sensation. Well, I couldn't 99 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: freak out. I had to maintain my professionalism, so I 100 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: smiled and said, actually, I'm going to need that for 101 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: the test we're doing, because I always use the role 102 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: of trash bags as a prop during this particular assessment. 103 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: I walked over, I picked it up, and proceeded with 104 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: the treatment session. There were no further incidents during this session. 105 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: But how strange is that right after I talked about 106 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: the ghost I saw earlier in the week, I have 107 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: another experience. And what a coincidence that the item I 108 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: need is the item that seemed to move on its own. 109 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: Wow. 110 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: Well, Kevin, thank you so much for sharing, and if 111 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: anything else happens, please let me know. So, guys, I'm 112 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: about to throw it on over to my conversation with 113 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: Richard as step. Now, this is somebody that has been 114 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: paranormal investigating for a minute, and so he has had 115 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: all kinds of experiences all over the worlds And I 116 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: actually asked him, can you tell me an experience that 117 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: really like shook you? And he tells me on Patreon 118 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: you guessed it, patreon dot com, slash Rozdressflees you can 119 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: hear that bonus clip on my second tier called on 120 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: with the show. So we talk about this experience he had, 121 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: which involved a spirit associated with an infamous serial killer, 122 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: and then we started talking about some other serial killer. 123 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: You may have heard of them, John Wayne Gacy, whose 124 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: ghost is present at a theater and Richard wrote a 125 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: book about it. So Richard knew all about the John 126 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: Wayne Gacy thing as well. So we talk about murder 127 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: ghosts on Patreon this week and on Patreon this week, 128 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: I have got for you a video of me driving 129 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: around Hollywood and going to some spooky Hollywood destinations. We 130 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: go to the Knickerbocker Hotel, we go to the Wax 131 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: Museum of Hollywood Boulevard, the Hollywood Tower, the Nightmare on 132 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: Elm Street House, all kinds of places from the comfort 133 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: of my car, you know, kind of like going on 134 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: one of those ghost tours or the movie Star house 135 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: tours of Hollywood. You can find that video on Patreon 136 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: on my first tier and my video last week. I 137 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: have gotten a number of messages from people, and I've 138 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: sent it to some friends that kind of know this 139 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: paranormal world, and I'm like, did I or did I 140 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 1: not catch a ghost at the Colorado Street Bridge, because 141 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I captured a ghost on camera. And 142 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: everyone I've showed the video to They're like, yeah, that's 143 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: like it looks like something. So make sure you go 144 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: check that out on Patreon. Anyway, let's talk to Richard 145 00:09:52,640 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: step On with the show. Hello, Richard, how are are you? Today. 146 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: Hello Ross, I'm doing very well, and thank you for 147 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: inviting me onto your show. 148 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: Oh my god, of course I'm so excited to have 149 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: you on because we've talked a little bit on this show, 150 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: weirdly not enough about haunted hospitals, and I've been told 151 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: that you're the guy, and then I start like really 152 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: digging into what you do, and oh my god, you've 153 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: written like three books about haunted hospitals. You've been on 154 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: TV shows about haunted hospitals. I'm sorry I haven't reached 155 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: out sooner, So thank you for coming on my I 156 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: think my first question, I'm always so curious because you're 157 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 1: a researcher, you're an author. How did you get into it? 158 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: I guess it's a pretty simple question. But where did 159 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: this all start for you? 160 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: Well, when I was a young boy growing up in England, 161 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: my grandparents lived in a haunted house. And the story 162 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: there is that it was one of those big World 163 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 2: War two generation families, you know, because there wasn't there 164 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: was no such thing as TV, so you just had 165 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: a lot of kids instead that was entertainment. My grandfather 166 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: was away fighting in Burma during the Second World War, 167 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: and my aunts and uncles all had the same experience. 168 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 2: An old lady would come into their bedroom at night 169 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 2: and would took them into bed a very protective, very 170 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 2: kind of friendly maternal spirit, which turned out to be 171 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 2: a former owner of the house who had died there, 172 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 2: keeping a watchful eye on the children. And so I 173 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 2: heard this story, and I was just fascinated. And I 174 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: used to have to sleep in that bedroom all alone 175 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 2: when I would visit my grandparents. So I was a 176 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 2: mix of about fifty percent terrified fifty percent fascinated, hoping 177 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: that this apparition would show up, And unfortunately she never did. 178 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 2: When when my stepdad and my aunts and uncles grew 179 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 2: up and had kids of their own, they moved on, 180 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: and she moved on too, to where knows. But that 181 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 2: starts me down this road of being fascinated with haunted 182 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: houses and led me to the library, which is where 183 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 2: I think all good paranormal enthusiasts should go, long before 184 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 2: they go near a TV screen. And I would just 185 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: get every book on the paranormal I could find and 186 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 2: devoured them over and over again. 187 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: And then so you got into being you're a paramedic, right, Yes. 188 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 2: I'm a paramedic. Here in Colorado. 189 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: Oh amazing. So is that what led you into this 190 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: haunted hospital world? 191 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: It is I've been doing. I've been a paramedic, an 192 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 2: EMT initially, and then a paramedic since two thousand and two. 193 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 2: I changed careers after nine to eleven because I wanted 194 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 2: to contribute in some way, and I got a reputation 195 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 2: as being that kind of ghost guy. So when somebody 196 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 2: had a ghost story, they would say, oh, you know, 197 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 2: Richard will bring a patient by later on. You should 198 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 2: tell him your scary story. He's into all that stuff. 199 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: And I realized that so many nurses, quite a few doctors, 200 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 2: and a lot of patients have strange things happen to 201 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 2: them when they're in hospital, and so I decided I 202 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 2: ought to start collecting those and sharing them. 203 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 1: Had you had stories of your own, not. 204 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: One, it would be great if I did. Would But yeah, 205 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 2: and people ask me that all the time, Well, have 206 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 2: you experienced anything all at work? And the truth of 207 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 2: it is that I'm usually focused so much on my scene, 208 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 2: on my patient, and on what's going on that you 209 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: could have a parade of headless horseman walk by and 210 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't know this. 211 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: Well, I can only imagine. I mean, it's so it's 212 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: so intense, there's so much going on. Who knows what 213 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: could be happening around you. I was talking to my dad, 214 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: who is now he's retired, I think like thirty five 215 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: years or so. He was a fireman and an EMT, 216 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: and I asked him if he ever had any experiences 217 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: and he said, not that he ever noticed, but he 218 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: certainly believes in that stuff. But so have you talked 219 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: to people that were EMTs that noticed these things? 220 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 2: On many of them? In fact, one of the shows 221 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 2: that I appear on, Paranormal nine one one is almost 222 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: entirely composed of stories told by cops, firefighters, and EMS 223 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: providers of their strange experiences on the job. And this 224 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: is how I got a positioned as a talking head 225 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 2: on that show. 226 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: So I guess another question that I'm sure you've been 227 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: asked them many times, and I kind of posted that 228 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: you're going to be on the show, and I had 229 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: had some of our listeners ask some questions, and if 230 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: you wanted to know, basically, you know, doctors and nurses 231 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: are educated scientifically, he minded a lot of the time, 232 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: how do they rationalize these experiences? Do you find that 233 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: they're believers. 234 00:14:55,040 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: Usually find that there's a very different mindset ross between 235 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: doctors and nurses. It interests me, and I have respect 236 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: for both, of course, but nurses really run hospitals in 237 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: the same way that sergeants run the army, you know. 238 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 2: So doctors are the ones that will say, with no 239 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: sense of irony at all, they'll say, oh, ghosts, yeah, 240 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: ghosts and goblins. I don't believe in the stuff, you know. 241 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: I have a scientific education, as nurses do also, you know, 242 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: but I'm very well trained. I don't believe in this. 243 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 2: It's garbage. And they'll take a breath and then say, 244 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: but this one time, and they'll go on and tell 245 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 2: me the story, you know, about how they pronounced the 246 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: patient dead and then they started noticing that the doors 247 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 2: would open and close themselves, the lights would switch on 248 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: and off, the phone would ring, nobody would be there. 249 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 2: And I will say, so, how do you explain that? 250 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 2: And they'll just write it off and say, just one 251 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 2: of those things. 252 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: I work with comedians a lot, and I'm in venues 253 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: all the time, and I'm always asking comedians if they 254 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: have goat stories, and they're very I mean, they're not 255 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: science minded people. Necessarily and they always do the same thing. Now, 256 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: I don't believe that stuff, not not at all, but 257 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: there was this one time and then they start going 258 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: into it, and I love that. That's my favorite kind 259 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: because how do you explain it? 260 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 2: And right? And nurses, on the other hand, are pragmatists, 261 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 2: in no disrespect to doctors, but nurses are the ones 262 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: that will say, oh, yeah, yeah, we have that guy 263 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: die and then you know, we three of us saw 264 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: him in the whole way. He's just haven't moved on 265 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 2: yet anyway. And now to them, it's it's almost, you know, 266 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: the very polar opposite. They just seem to accept this stuff. 267 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: That's been my experience with doctors and nurses anyway. 268 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: Has there ever been a hospital that's abandoned that isn't haunted. 269 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: I feel like they're they're always anytime there's like a jail, 270 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: a hospital, an asylum, there aren't they always haunted once 271 00:16:59,640 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: they're a. 272 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 2: And it's it's yeah, I've yet to run into one. 273 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 2: And I mean, to be fair, from a skeptical point 274 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 2: of view, how predisposed are we to just think that 275 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 2: those creepy old buildings are haunted? You know, I've walked in. 276 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 2: I've walked into places so many times. I'm sure you 277 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 2: have too, us where you say to yourself, if this 278 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: place isn't haunted, it really should be. Oh yeah, but 279 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 2: I mean I think hospitals are generally haunted because all 280 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 2: of human life plays out on this fairly small stage. 281 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 2: You know, you go to any given hospital on any 282 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 2: given day, you have new lives entering the world. You know, 283 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 2: babies are being born, new families are being made, which 284 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 2: is a very joyful thing. And then you have people 285 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 2: that are passing away, that are breathing their last and 286 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 2: so you have grief and bereavement and intense sorrow. And 287 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 2: it's been my experience that where one finds strong emotion 288 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: of a positive or a negative nature, one also tends 289 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 2: to find ghosts. 290 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: Well in electricity, right, wouldn't you? I would think that 291 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: the so much electricity in the. 292 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: Air, well, that's true. And some interesting chemical compounds too, 293 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 2: especially when you start looking at X ray departments and 294 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 2: things of that nature. 295 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: Are there, certain like is the word sections wards? What 296 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: do we say are certain parts of the hospital that 297 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: tend to have more activity? 298 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 2: That's a great question. I would love to do some 299 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: formal research into that, but I don't know to tell 300 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 2: you the truth. I know that I've run into a 301 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: haunted labor and delivery in a former hospital which was 302 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,479 Speaker 2: said to be haunted by the ghost of a tragic 303 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 2: young lady that died in childbirth, and in that same 304 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: labor and delivery they would hear the sound of babies 305 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: crying and things of that nature. So I would go 306 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 2: with emergency departments, though, simply because emergency departments see a 307 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 2: lot of crisis by their very nature. 308 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can only imagine all that trauma. So do 309 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: you tend to be on the skeptical of this stuff? 310 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 2: I think I do. But skeptic is a word that 311 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 2: gets a bad rap. I mean, thanks to the X Files, 312 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: you know, which I love, everyone associates skeptic with I 313 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 2: refuse to believe no matter what when true. Skepticism really 314 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: is just an attitude that says, these are some pretty 315 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: wild and crazy claims, So what evidence supports them? And 316 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 2: to how many decimal places? You know? Yes, So I 317 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 2: think that's the only rational attitude to have to anything 318 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 2: in life, not just the paranormal, but anything you see 319 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: on your social media feed or on TV or anything 320 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 2: you're told on any subject, I mean, within reason, right, But. 321 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: Are there paranormal investigators that are kind of more close 322 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: minded and just want to be proved wrong? 323 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 2: I think there are some. That we all have our 324 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 2: personal biases, every single one of us, and frankly, there 325 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 2: are some that have their own personal agendas. You know, 326 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 2: It's amazing what you'll be willing to believe if there's 327 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 2: if there's a TV contract in it for you. I mean, 328 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: I think that's sadly true, and we always have to 329 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 2: guard against that, you know. But there are those that 330 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 2: I think are a little too open minded or too credulous, 331 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: I should say, and those who are a little too 332 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 2: closed off. And I'll also say I've been guilty of 333 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: both of those things during my career. So it's not 334 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: like I'm a saint, but having the intellectual integrity to 335 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 2: ask yourself, you know, am I not asking enough questions? Here? 336 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 2: Am I? Am I being too accepting or too narrow minded? 337 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 2: That's the key. You know, You're trying to walk that 338 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 2: fine line between excessive belief and excessive disbelief. 339 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, do you get scared of stuff on occasion? 340 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that As much as people might like 341 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 2: to puff up their chest and say they don't. There 342 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: is a p of all of us, a deeply primal 343 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 2: part of all of us, that is scared of the dark, 344 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 2: you know. I mean, we are wired that way. So 345 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 2: I'm usually pretty good with it, but every once in 346 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 2: a while, for no apparent reason, I will just get 347 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 2: overcome with a sense of fear. And I usually can't 348 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 2: explain it. It's not when something's happening. It's just a 349 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 2: sense of being massively creeped out. And I suspect that psychics, 350 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 2: medium sensitives call them what they will, call them what 351 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 2: you will would say, you know that my body is 352 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 2: picking up on something that I'm not consciously able to detect, 353 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 2: And I certainly wouldn't disagree with that. It's entirely possible. 354 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: But yeah, it does happen, but the feeling always passes, 355 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:46,239 Speaker 2: you know. 356 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: Do you believe in like dark forces, demons, all that 357 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: kind of stuff that we love to talk about, at least. 358 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 2: Well we are in the United States. Isn't it mandatory 359 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: that you believe in demons? 360 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: Yeah? As well, And that's and that's another question I 361 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: have for you, is is the difference between the British 362 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: belief of the paranormal and America. You know broadly strokes 363 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: what you found. 364 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not I'm not gonna throw shade, but you 365 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 2: know I'll be shade. 366 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: We do that here. You're talking to a drag queen. 367 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: Don't tell me like a throw shade. We invented shade. Honey. 368 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna throw shade, but I will, I will, 369 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 2: I will be as respectful as I can. So I 370 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 2: truly believe that we have to. You know that old 371 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 2: saying that you you have to respect everybody's beliefs no 372 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 2: matter what. I think it's garbage. I think what we 373 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 2: have to do is we have to respect everybody's right 374 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 2: to hold their beliefs. Yes, okay, And there's a real 375 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 2: difference there. You know, if you want to believe the 376 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 2: earth is flat, that's your constitutional right, knock yourself out. 377 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: But I don't have to respect that belief itself, you know, Yes. 378 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 2: And so in the same way, if you are a 379 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 2: person of faith and you are a big believer in 380 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 2: demonic forces and things of that nature, I absolutely respect 381 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 2: your right to that. And I won't even say it's 382 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 2: not the case that such things don't exist. I think 383 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 2: that would be quite arrogant of me, but I will 384 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 2: say that I think they are massively, massively overblown and 385 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 2: the media is to blame. I began in nineteen ninety 386 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 2: five ross first as a paranorl investigator in the UK, 387 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 2: and there was no Ghost Adventures, there was no Most Haunted, 388 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 2: Ghost Hunters, nothing on TV until I want to say, 389 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, two thousand, so. 390 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: But the earth was still flat back then, right. 391 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 2: Right, You mean it isn't. But what that meant was 392 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 2: that I ran on very very few cases which were 393 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 2: considered dark or negative. You know, most of them were 394 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 2: actually very pleasant hauntings. Even the poltergeist cases were more 395 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 2: playful than malign. And without naming names. Things changed sometime 396 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: between two thousand and five and two thousand and when 397 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 2: some TV personalities began to encounter demons on a weekly basis. 398 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 2: Everything was a possession, everything was dark, everything was demonic, 399 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: because that's great for ratings, right. 400 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: The devil got a good publicist, absolutely. 401 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 2: And so I've been reading and looking at the literature 402 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 2: of the paranormal for all this time as well. You 403 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 2: look at the greats, you look at the Society for 404 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 2: Psychical Research, you look at the Harry Prices of this World, 405 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 2: for example, they did not report demon after demon after demon, 406 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 2: and yet some media personalities have done that, and that 407 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 2: has led to a landslide because demons are good for ratings, 408 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 2: and they're good for book sales, you know. And I 409 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: think it's once the history of this period of paranormal 410 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 2: research comes to be written, we're going to look very 411 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 2: a scance at this cavalcade of darkness and evil and 412 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 2: forth and demonology. You know. Do I think that there 413 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 2: are negative entities out there? Absolutely? I do. Do I 414 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: think that every time somebody is scratched or growl that 415 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 2: that they're dealing with the Alzebub or whatever demon you 416 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 2: want to name, Absolutely not. Does that does that make sense? 417 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: Yeah? Definitely. 418 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 2: Now what do you think I like to hear your opinion? 419 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: Well, I'm still trying to figure that one out. I 420 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,959 Speaker 1: I believe, well, first of all, most of the knowledge 421 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: that I have, or or any opinions I have on 422 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: the paranormal is mainly it's from uh limited experiences of 423 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 1: my own, but from just gathering, you know, hearing people's stories, 424 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: and from what I am starting to think more and more, 425 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: it's it's it's kind of person to person. I think 426 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: that there's there's forces in this world that are specifically negative, 427 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: and I think that they can manifest in different ways 428 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: for different people. I think that maybe fear is what 429 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: motivates them, and so if you are afraid of the 430 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: devil from the Bible, maybe it will manifest. Is the 431 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: devil from the Bible? Oh yeah, That's just where I'm 432 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: at right now. But I'm constantly very open to hearing 433 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: more and more different things. 434 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 2: Well, and that seems very reasonable to me as well. 435 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: But I think we love to label as a species. 436 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 2: We are labelers, you know. So if you're a person 437 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 2: of a Christian faith based system, then the negative is demonic, right, Yeah, 438 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 2: And I'm more credulous of that specific label than i 439 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: am the concept behind it. And I also think there's 440 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 2: a real tendency for us to want to or to 441 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: be tempted to misinterpret these things. So, for example, if 442 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 2: we have an aggressive or a frightened individual who passes away, 443 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 2: and that person tries to communicate with the living as 444 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 2: best they can, you know, they will maybe throw things, 445 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 2: scratch people, yell, scream, angry in life, angry and death. 446 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: Thanks to Hollywood and a hundred good paranormal stories. We 447 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 2: are tempted to write this off as being an aggressive, malevolent, 448 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 2: maybe demonic spirit when it could be nothing more than 449 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 2: a confused, frustrated, terrified spirit of a human being. 450 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: Mm well, I also always think about I mean, I've 451 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: talked about this on the show before, but you know, 452 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: I know some people that are goth or cosplayers or 453 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: whatever it is that they might look like, and I 454 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: think that someone could see them with the devil horned 455 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: headband that they wear sometimes as a ghost and be like, 456 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: oh my God, the Devil's here. I know some people 457 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: that were crazy color contacts. I know people that were fangs, 458 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: so their goes in the future could very well make 459 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: people think that they're doing. 460 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: You never know. But and again, you know, no disrespect 461 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 2: to those that believe have a certain belief system. If 462 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 2: you're a Christian, I respect your rights that if you're 463 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 2: a Muslim, I respect that. I'm an agnostic personally, you know. 464 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 2: I used to say atheist, and then my grandmother said 465 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 2: go with agnostic, Richard, because God's got lightning and Darwin doesn't. 466 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 2: So you know, always head your bets right. But I 467 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 2: am also I do believe in some kind of other 468 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: realm highest state of being. I don't know what to 469 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 2: call it, and that's why I'm still poking around dulk 470 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 2: buildings after all these years trying to answer those questions. 471 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 2: But I certainly don't want to disrespect those that have 472 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 2: a specific belief system. 473 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: Right well, I want to take it back to hospitals 474 00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: for for a few more moments. Have you found while 475 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: still talking about like dark stuff, have you have you 476 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: heard that people you know, find those kinds of forces 477 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: in hospitals. 478 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: I've suddenly heard a number of negative experiences coming from hospitals, 479 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 2: and we featured a lot of them on the show 480 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 2: Haunted Hospitals. But you are just as likely to experience 481 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 2: something positive too. So I think that people are very 482 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 2: vulnerable when they're in the hospital. Sometimes you're dealing with 483 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 2: altered states of being. People are on medications that are 484 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 2: that sedate them, you know that that drop their barriers. 485 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 2: And on the one hand, as a as a medical professional, 486 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 2: I think if you're on a cocktail of medications, you 487 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 2: know that can be inducing all kinds of hallucinations, and 488 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 2: hallucinations can affect all of the senses. It doesn't just 489 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: mean you're seeing things. There are medications out there which 490 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 2: will give you very vivid paranormal encounters as a side effect. 491 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: But on the flip side, I also think it's possible 492 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 2: that when you are medicated in a certain way, it 493 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 2: may open the doors doors that are normally close to 494 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 2: us as part of our everyday mental states. It may 495 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: open doors and allow us to experience something that is 496 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 2: that is actually genuine, but beyond the grasp of everyday life. 497 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm a big believer in that too. 498 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 2: Have you. 499 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: I have like, let me just fire off like a 500 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: bunch of hospital questions, have you encountered? And again, I 501 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: know that these are like so like broad questions, But 502 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: have you heard of machinery in hospitals ever? You know, 503 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: being having an attachment or something like that. 504 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 2: I don't know about having an attachment, but certainly machinery 505 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 2: or equipment malfunctioning is common. One that I hear a 506 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 2: lot is when you have a room in which your 507 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 2: patient is passed away. Nurses will often report that they 508 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: get the call light from that room will start blinking 509 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 2: as if there's somebody in there calling for help and 510 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 2: yet the room is completely empty. That happens very frequently. 511 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: Oh, Wow. When it comes to goos in hospitals, do 512 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: you hear more stories of like a temporary ghost or 513 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,239 Speaker 1: are there mainstays that have been there for decades? What 514 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: does it tend to be in a hospital, Because there's 515 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: so much traffic going in now, so I'm not sure 516 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: what it would be like both. 517 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 2: Really, I'm saying the majority of cases that I've looked 518 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 2: at have been more of the temporary kind, somebody that 519 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: is perhaps deceased and hasn't moved on. But there are 520 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 2: some long term ghosts as well. I mean, one of 521 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 2: the larger, more historic hospitals in Britain has the ghost 522 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 2: of a nurse that has been there now for more 523 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 2: than a century. And the reason she's believe to haunt 524 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 2: the place she accidentally overdosed her own fiance on morphine 525 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 2: and killed him, and she was so racked with remorse 526 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 2: she took her own life, or so the story goes. 527 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 2: And she's seen whenever opioid's, morphine, fent and all those 528 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 2: kind of medications are being used, and it's believed that 529 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 2: she appears just to offer a reminder of Hey, these 530 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 2: drugs can be dangerous. Take it from me, check your 531 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 2: dosin carefully. 532 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: Oh wow, So. 533 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 2: That's that's almost a spirit that's providing a service. Yeah, 534 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 2: Or it feels honest, as if she's she's paying off 535 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 2: some self imposed penance. 536 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure that's oh, that's that's sad, but it's 537 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, it seems like she's probably almost a guardian angel. 538 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: Some people would say, yes, would you. Uh, this is 539 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: a question I wonder about all hauntings, but I'm curious 540 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: about hospitals as well. Do you find that go like 541 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: when someone dies, do they go back to how they 542 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: want to look or do they go back to you 543 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: how they looked when they died? Like, how does that happen? 544 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 2: Having talked to quite a few mediums, I mean when 545 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 2: we talk about intelligent hauntings versus residual a residual haunting 546 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 2: is the equivalent I think of a movie or a snapshot. 547 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 2: You know, it's an imprint of how something looks at 548 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 2: the time it was imprinted. But with intelligent haunts, a 549 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 2: number of mediums I've spoken to have said that we 550 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 2: get to pick our own form in spirit, which thank goodness, 551 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 2: because I would much rather be twenty one year old 552 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 2: me in appearance anyway than forty seven year old me. 553 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: Do you get to change your outfits all the time? 554 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: What do they tell you? Because I have. 555 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 2: Those is important to you? Yes? Yeah, Well there's that 556 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: whole thing about be careful what you wear today because 557 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 2: that's your ghost outfit for it forever, of course, And 558 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: let's hope that's not the case. I do. 559 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: I definitely think about that. I mean, I've got wigs, 560 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: I got. I just need to I need a warning 561 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: before I die. What about astral projection during surgery? That's 562 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: something I was just stick crossed my mind. Have you 563 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: ever heard of that happening? 564 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 2: You know, I've heard of it more frequently. Yes, I've 565 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 2: heard of it happening during surgery, but I've heard of 566 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 2: it happening most frequently during a resuscitation, So someone is 567 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 2: being given emergent surgery after sustaining, say a very severe 568 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 2: severe car crash. But quite often you hear of that 569 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 2: happening when somebody is being resuscitated. And there are many, 570 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 2: many accounts of patients floating out of their body and 571 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 2: watching what's happening in the room, and then coming back 572 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 2: being saved and being able to accurately recount things that 573 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 2: the physicians and nurses have said, you know, and at 574 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 2: the time that brain was in a state a very 575 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 2: low blood flow. They may well have been given hard 576 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 2: core sedatives, and yet they're able to accurately recall things 577 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 2: that they should never have been able to perceive. And 578 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: they can talk about where a certain doctor was standing, 579 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 2: what he or she said when they reach for a 580 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 2: specific piece of equipment, and I find those very impressive. Indeed. 581 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, God, I'm so fascinated by that. That's something that 582 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: I've really not heard much about. I mean, I started 583 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: really getting to the paranormal all the past few years, 584 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: but it's something that blows my mind. This whole idea 585 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: of like ghosts of the living and I guess astro projection. 586 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by it. Have you experienced that outside of hospitals. 587 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there was a landmark study done at 588 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 2: the turn of the nineteenth twentieth century the year escapes me, 589 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 2: but a huge study done by the Society of psycho Research, 590 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 2: and Apparitions of the Living proved to be extremely common, 591 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 2: which blows away the whole theory of ghost just being 592 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 2: dead people, doesn't it. So Yeah, I do think that 593 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 2: probably happens more often than we realize. What fascinates me 594 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 2: is that we now live in a world where we 595 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 2: are on camera more times each day than at any 596 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 2: other point in human history. You know, you go to 597 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 2: the store, you're on camera, you're driving, you're on camera. 598 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 2: It makes me wonder how many people that are recorded 599 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 2: on those cameras are actually apparitions. And you know that 600 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 2: there's a big contentious debate at the moment about facial 601 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 2: recognition software. You know what I would love to see. 602 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 2: I would love to see someday facial recognition software that's 603 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 2: capable of recognizing the faces of the deceased, and how 604 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 2: many of them are wandering around their old neighborhoods. 605 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: Oh God, I hate the Do you want to hear 606 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 1: some ghost voices? 607 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 2: Boys? 608 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: Okay, it's time for EVP or ev plice. So I 609 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: go to YouTube and I find EVPs and I'm gonna 610 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,439 Speaker 1: give people the benefit of the doubt because it's it's 611 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: hard to do this because I'm you know, when I'm 612 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: in a studio, it's a little bit easy there to 613 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: hear them. But I looked for some hospital ones on 614 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: the internet. I thought they were pretty good. But I'm 615 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: wondering what you hear, So either let me know what 616 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: you hear, or you know. I'll give you some options 617 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: and you could guess what the researcher believes. 618 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 2: That they heard. 619 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: Okay, this first one is from touring History on YouTube 620 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:59,839 Speaker 1: and it is at the Yorktown Memorial Hospital the Great Yorktown, Texas. 621 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: Have you heard stories of this place? 622 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 2: I wrote about it in my book The World's Most 623 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 2: Haunted Hospitals, and it has a an incredible reputation for 624 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 2: being haunted. I've yet to make it out there, but 625 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 2: it's on my bucket list. 626 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: Is it still like operational? 627 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,919 Speaker 2: No, it's been for quite some time. 628 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: Okay, well, here is the EVP. Tell me what you hear? Richard? 629 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: Do you hear anything? 630 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 2: Can I get that again? Yeah? 631 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: Of course. So there's a little bit of background noise, 632 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: but there's a like on top of it, so it's 633 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: kind of a whispery. I'll play it one more time. 634 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 2: It does sound like a whisper. I would call that 635 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,439 Speaker 2: a class C though, and I wouldn't presume to guess 636 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:53,280 Speaker 2: what it says. 637 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, here's some options. Is it a nosy? Is 638 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: it B no say? Which is Spanish for I don't know? 639 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: Is it C honestly or D ghost me. 640 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with a nose. 641 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: Okay, let me play it. 642 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,320 Speaker 2: I think that's what spirits thinking. 643 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: That's what I would assume too. I think about that 644 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: all the time, like, okay, nosey. Let me just like 645 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: enjoy my abandoned hospital. 646 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 2: Yeah wait, let me play. 647 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,359 Speaker 1: Yeah it's nosy, that's what they thought it was. Okay, 648 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: let me play you one more. And this one is 649 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,959 Speaker 1: from Planet Paranormal Investigations on YouTube. I love this one. 650 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 2: Now. 651 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: This one is from a place that I'm sure you've 652 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: heard of. It's here in LA. It's the Linda Vista Hospital. 653 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 2: Oh again, on my bucket list apartments. 654 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: I heard that they turned it into yeah, like senior 655 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: senior living, but I have not heard. I mean, I 656 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: don't know how I would, but I haven't really heard 657 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: anybody reporting of any activity nowadays. But I'm sure it 658 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 1: has to be happening. That place is like an iconic 659 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: haunted hospital. Okay, what does this one say? It's real quick, 660 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 1: I'll play it again. You hear anything, I. 661 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 2: Hear a noise. I don't know that I would call 662 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 2: it a word. 663 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 1: Okay, let me play it one more time. 664 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 2: Here. 665 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: Let me give you some options. Is it a Bye Girl, B, 666 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: why not C Spider or D my nuts? 667 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,399 Speaker 2: You know, I'm gonna go with my nuts because it's 668 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 2: a subject that did near and did to my aunt. 669 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: It is actually what they thought it said. They thought 670 00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: it said my nuts. Let me play it. 671 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 2: Again, Okay, alrighty. 672 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,280 Speaker 1: That's what they said. Okay, Richard, I'm just reporting. 673 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 2: And who am I to gainsay them? 674 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 1: Well, Richard, I want to I want to hear about 675 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: a couple more of your books before we wrap this 676 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,480 Speaker 1: baby up. Can you tell me a little bit about 677 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: the Black Monk of Punk Diffract, which is I know 678 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: a little bit about that, and I find it very fascinating, 679 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 1: But you've recently written a book about it, so can 680 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about it? 681 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,760 Speaker 2: I have. I co wrote that book with my friend 682 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 2: Bill Bungy, and so essentially this was one of those 683 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 2: cases where I've been really fortunate ras the more books 684 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 2: I've written, the more TV work I've done, it it 685 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 2: opens doors every so often for me, opportunities that are 686 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 2: on my bucket list. And growing up as a kid, 687 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 2: one of the books that fasten me was called Poltergeist, 688 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 2: a study in Destructive Haunting by Colin Wilson, which I 689 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 2: highly recommend to your readers. It's still in print even 690 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 2: though Colin died a few years ago, and that the 691 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 2: main case in that book was the Black Monk of Pontefract, 692 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,800 Speaker 2: which was a poltergeist outbreak in an ordinary, very small 693 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 2: house in the UK in England, and this outbreak basically 694 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 2: afflicted this family for many years. They started to as 695 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 2: most pot gust cases are. It began playfully, you know, 696 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 2: there was a strange reign of powder came down from 697 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 2: the air in the kitchen. Keys began to fall down 698 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 2: the chimney, old keys like brass keys, you know, that 699 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 2: didn't belong in the house. Footsteps started being heard in 700 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 2: the house, all these strange things. And then finally this tall, 701 00:42:54,800 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 2: dark hooded figure appeared and terrified the members of this 702 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 2: family and they named him the Black Monk of Pontefract 703 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 2: because the area around which the house is located, monks 704 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,919 Speaker 2: were known to work that land hundreds of years ago, 705 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 2: and there was an urban legend, and it is an 706 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 2: urban legend. There's no truth behind the story that we 707 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 2: know that this monk had sexually assaulted a young girl 708 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,239 Speaker 2: murdered her and thrown her body down a well on 709 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,479 Speaker 2: the site of this house, which makes for a great 710 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 2: horror story, but there's not a shred of evidence to 711 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 2: support it whatsoever. But this Polsygeist case was so violent 712 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,360 Speaker 2: and it made national news back in the sixties. You 713 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 2: would have reporters camping out outside the house trying to 714 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,319 Speaker 2: take photographs of the Black Monk, and then the case 715 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 2: kind of died away over the years. It was one 716 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 2: of those classic cases. I'd always wondered what happened, and 717 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 2: then they made a horror movie about it back in 718 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 2: twenty eleven twenty twelve called When the Lights Went Out. Great, 719 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 2: great movie, and that brought this new slew of interest 720 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,240 Speaker 2: in the house. People started getting started wondering what actually 721 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 2: happened to the Black Monk. And it turned out that 722 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,319 Speaker 2: the house was still active and the family that had 723 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 2: suffered at the hands of the polticu I sold it 724 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,799 Speaker 2: to the guy that produced the movie, No Less. He 725 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,359 Speaker 2: wanted to have the movie premiere in the house. What 726 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 2: the movie was about, I mean, that's brilliant, isn't it. Yeah, 727 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,279 Speaker 2: And so you know, people that came to the house 728 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,440 Speaker 2: started to report strange goings on, and so I reached 729 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,200 Speaker 2: out to the movie producer and said, would it be 730 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,399 Speaker 2: possible for me to come spend some time there? And 731 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,880 Speaker 2: he didn't ask me for a dime, He said absolutely, 732 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:45,879 Speaker 2: I'll give you the keys to the house. You can 733 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 2: move in for a week. All I ask is that 734 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 2: you write the truth about what you experience. And so 735 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 2: I took three of my fellow investigators from the US, 736 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 2: we flew over and a couple of my fellow British 737 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 2: friends and we moved in and we lived with the 738 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 2: Black Monk of Pontefract for a week and it was 739 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 2: just a crazy location. 740 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,360 Speaker 1: And you know, it's a very pictures from there. Yeah, 741 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 1: there's people have caught, you know, images of the Black Monk. 742 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 2: Right well, they believe that they have. I mean, what 743 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 2: fascinates me about it is it's such a controversial case. 744 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 2: Many people today say that, you know, the house is 745 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,359 Speaker 2: not haunted at all, This whole thing is a money 746 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 2: making scam, which all I can say to that is 747 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,440 Speaker 2: we definitely experienced paranormal activity inside the house. We had 748 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,640 Speaker 2: a mirror smash itself. We had one of my colleagues, Charlie, 749 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 2: was scratched three long scratches across his back, which happened 750 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 2: right in front of our eyes. Crazy crazy things going on, 751 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 2: and several vps. So, but the house freaks me out 752 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 2: unlike any other place I've investigated, not because of the 753 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,920 Speaker 2: Black Monk believed or not, but because the way that 754 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 2: it has been left. It's like a time capsule from 755 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies and eighties. So I instantly like regressed 756 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 2: in age thirty five years when I stepped into that house, 757 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 2: and not in a good way. It creeps you out 758 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:19,239 Speaker 2: so bad. There's an old Beta Max video recorder there 759 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 2: with a bunch of tapes and things like that, you know, 760 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 2: and it's like being back in time. So very very 761 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 2: creepy house. One of my fellow investigators, she came in, 762 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 2: she'd been in the house maybe ten minutes, and she's 763 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:35,320 Speaker 2: projectile vomiting for no obvious reason. Has a very strange atmosphere. 764 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 2: But yeah, so it's an ordinary house. If you didn't 765 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 2: know its history, you would walk by it and not 766 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,120 Speaker 2: give it a second glance. It looks absolutely nothing like 767 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 2: the archetypal haunted house that we see on TV or 768 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:48,120 Speaker 2: in the movies. 769 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 1: That producer he just owns it I mean, does he 770 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: like rent it out to other investigators or what's going on? 771 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,240 Speaker 2: He does, he rents it out to investigators and allows 772 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 2: people to do their own research there. Some people will 773 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,359 Speaker 2: just spend the night there because they've always wanted to, 774 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 2: and the experiences they have ranged from absolutely crazy to 775 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,040 Speaker 2: not a thing happened, which is the paranormal all over. Yeah, 776 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,840 Speaker 2: you know, you never know what you're going to get. 777 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: Well, that's how I also always feel let terms with 778 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,279 Speaker 1: like like TV investigations and stuff like that, Like if 779 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 1: you're gonna spend like two days there, it's kind of 780 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: hard to determine, right. 781 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:32,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, But he the producer, is very very rational 782 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 2: about it. He became convinced the house was haunted when 783 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,919 Speaker 2: an object materialized in front of his face in thin air. 784 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,719 Speaker 2: He became an instant convert and he will not spend 785 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,040 Speaker 2: the night in that house anymore. He just won't. In fact, 786 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 2: you should have him on your show. He'd be a 787 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 2: great guest. 788 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:51,120 Speaker 1: Okay, you've written like so many books. Are you working 789 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:51,959 Speaker 1: on any right now? 790 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,320 Speaker 2: I'm always working on something new. I'm walking on a 791 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 2: book now about the Monroe House in Indiana. Have you 792 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 2: heard of it? 793 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,799 Speaker 1: You know I have because I've looked up I was 794 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:09,240 Speaker 1: actually just recently looking up EVPs and I kept getting 795 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,879 Speaker 1: I was looking for EVPs in the Roosevelt Hotel, which 796 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,400 Speaker 1: is here in LA and people say Marilyn Monroe haunts it. 797 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: And then it just started leading meeting this Monroe House, 798 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:20,920 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, what's this. So that's my 799 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 1: limited knowledge, but what's going on with that? 800 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 2: I know you just had Katrina on your show right twice. 801 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:27,280 Speaker 1: I love Katrina. 802 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,400 Speaker 2: I do too. She's a friend of mine. And I 803 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,440 Speaker 2: asked her, actually when you reached out to me and 804 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,359 Speaker 2: I said, hey, is this a good show? And she said, oh, 805 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:34,879 Speaker 2: you have to do it. You have a great time. 806 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,719 Speaker 2: And she was right. But Katrina and Nick had investigated 807 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,520 Speaker 2: them in her row house on Paranormal Lockdown, and it's 808 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 2: it's again a fairly ordinary house, except for the fact 809 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 2: that there are human remains buried beneath it and nobody 810 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 2: knows whose they are. So I did the same thing. 811 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,440 Speaker 2: I was invited to go spend a few days and 812 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 2: nights living at the Monroe House investigating. And so that 813 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,719 Speaker 2: was last year, which shows you how long it takes 814 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,600 Speaker 2: me to write a book and I'm just finishing that 815 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,280 Speaker 2: manuscript now. I hope to have it out by November, 816 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 2: by Thanksgiving. 817 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,359 Speaker 1: Great, how do you pick these places? I mean, are 818 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,480 Speaker 1: you just you know, just keeping your ears open for great, 819 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 1: great stuff, or I mean it's it's pretty incredible when 820 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,319 Speaker 1: I look at on your website, like, there's just so 821 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,880 Speaker 1: many different topics that you focus on. Yeah, what do 822 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:26,239 Speaker 1: you look like? 823 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 2: I'm like a kid in a candy store, which would 824 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 2: explain my waistline. Really, I just I hear from other investigators, 825 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,640 Speaker 2: and it's a fairly small community, right, And when a 826 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,399 Speaker 2: place has good word of mouth, it has a good 827 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,320 Speaker 2: reputation from people that have been there. If it's somebody 828 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:47,000 Speaker 2: that I respect, I will start to put out feelers 829 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,920 Speaker 2: and see how many people have experienced strange things. And 830 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,960 Speaker 2: if I hear from four or five reputable investigators that 831 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,640 Speaker 2: are place is legit, I will reach out to the 832 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,880 Speaker 2: owner and ask, you know what it would take for 833 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,600 Speaker 2: me to be allowed to tell its stories best I can? 834 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,480 Speaker 1: Great, Well, can you just tell people where they can 835 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,359 Speaker 1: find you and find your books and all that good 836 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:09,640 Speaker 1: stuff you want to plug away? 837 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, Well, if you're in Colorado, you can down 838 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:14,600 Speaker 2: name on one and you'll find me. But let's not 839 00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:19,399 Speaker 2: meet like that. Come see me online at www dot 840 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 2: Richard S. Step dot net. That's Richard E. S t 841 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,400 Speaker 2: ep dot net. Or come look me up on Facebook 842 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 2: Richard Step author. If you're the kind of person that 843 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 2: listens to the show, you're my kind of people. So 844 00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,520 Speaker 2: I love chatting about the paranormal. 845 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,439 Speaker 1: Wait, that just reminded me when you said Colorado. I'm 846 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,360 Speaker 1: so obsessed with the Stanley Hotel. Have you had experiences there? 847 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:41,840 Speaker 2: Well? To be fair, I did ghost tours there for 848 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,839 Speaker 2: three years. I gave the tours there, Oh you did? 849 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 2: I did, and I loved the hotel. It was a 850 00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,000 Speaker 2: great place to work. I worked with some amazing people 851 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 2: there as well, and it absolutely does deserve its reputation. 852 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,520 Speaker 2: In my experience, it is haunted as all get out. 853 00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,960 Speaker 1: Cool. Oh wait, can I get like a short story 854 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,800 Speaker 1: from what happened there? Like just one? 855 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean probably my favorite was that we did 856 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,239 Speaker 2: tours for twenty people. Because this was pre COVID, So 857 00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 2: in the concert hall we have a concert hall at 858 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,759 Speaker 2: the hotel. We would sit up on the balcony and 859 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,560 Speaker 2: I would talk about the ghosts of the concert hole 860 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,799 Speaker 2: and one summer's night. This would be about six o'clock, so, 861 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:28,040 Speaker 2: you know, still bright daylight, and below us, below the balcony, 862 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,640 Speaker 2: on the floor of the concert hall, we heard this 863 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 2: pounding of heavy footsteps, as if some big guy in 864 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,359 Speaker 2: boots was walking across the floor. And so I look over. 865 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,040 Speaker 2: I don't see anybody. Twenty other people look over the balcony. 866 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,239 Speaker 2: We don't see anybody. And this is one of the 867 00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,799 Speaker 2: documented phenomena of the concert hall. But I thought we 868 00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,840 Speaker 2: were being played, because people, especially when they've had a 869 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,839 Speaker 2: few drinks, love to mess with the ghost tours. So 870 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,600 Speaker 2: I thought somebody had gone down to the basement, had 871 00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,440 Speaker 2: gotten a broom handle and was banging it on the ceiling, 872 00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,120 Speaker 2: you know, faking these footsteps. So I grabbed two people 873 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,360 Speaker 2: from my tour. We went downstairs. We split up, and 874 00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,759 Speaker 2: we searched every inch of that basement. And I know 875 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,520 Speaker 2: where all the hiding places are, and of course, not 876 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,120 Speaker 2: a living soul to be found. 877 00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:21,040 Speaker 1: Ooh, that's good. Now, did you ride a tricycle through 878 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,000 Speaker 1: the hallway when you would have tours? That's what I wanted. 879 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,520 Speaker 2: I would have I would have loved the opportunity. I 880 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,399 Speaker 2: really really would well I. 881 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,120 Speaker 1: Am so so grateful that you came on the show. 882 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,560 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to chat with you. I hope you 883 00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,279 Speaker 1: come on again. If you have another book, when your 884 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 1: next books come out or whatever, please come by and 885 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:44,359 Speaker 1: let's talk about them. 886 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,440 Speaker 2: I would be delighted. Thank you so much for inviting 887 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:48,280 Speaker 2: me on Ross. 888 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 1: Special. Thank you to Richard. And if you want to 889 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,520 Speaker 1: hear that bonus clip of me with Richard and the 890 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,080 Speaker 1: ghost of John Wayne Gacy, go to pay dot com 891 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:06,279 Speaker 1: slash roz dress Fales and you'll see that video of 892 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:11,120 Speaker 1: me driving around Hollywood's spooky locations. Please join the Facebook 893 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,920 Speaker 1: group called Ghosted by rozdres Fales. It's a great place 894 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,279 Speaker 1: to share your story if you'd like me to read 895 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,759 Speaker 1: it on the show, or you can write it in 896 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:25,080 Speaker 1: a five star review on Apple Podcasts and give the 897 00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,120 Speaker 1: show five stars. And if you don't have a ghost story, 898 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: you can just write like a nice thing about me. 899 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,879 Speaker 1: That'd be great. It really helps the show out. I'm 900 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:38,600 Speaker 1: on cameo at Rozdresfales again. The patreon is Patreon dot com, 901 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:46,480 Speaker 1: slash rozdres Fales, venmo Queen Roz Instagram, rozdres Fales I'm 902 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,840 Speaker 1: all over the place. And if you have a ghost 903 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,160 Speaker 1: story that you want me to, like, talk to you 904 00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,200 Speaker 1: on the phone and we'll talk about it and we'll 905 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,800 Speaker 1: record it and we'll put it on a listener episode. 906 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,200 Speaker 1: Please send those to me. Email me at ghosted by 907 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:04,799 Speaker 1: Roz at gmail dot com with the subject line listener episode. 908 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,160 Speaker 1: I want to record one of those real soon, so 909 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,600 Speaker 1: make sure you get them to me. All right, I 910 00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,759 Speaker 1: love you all, both living and dead. But if I 911 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,200 Speaker 1: didn't ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me. Hey 912 00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:32,880 Speaker 1: By Stars, a podcast network