WEBVTT - Cultivating a Wealthy Mindset w/ Shang Saavedra #956 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.400 Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel Matt. Today we're 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:26.439 talking about cultivating a wealthy mindset with Shunk Savedra. That's right. 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:29.960 Our guest today is a financial coach. She's the founder 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:32.519 of the site Save My Sense and she's now the 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.320 author of the book Wealth Is a Mindset, which was 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.880 recently published, and Seung Savedra. She lives at the intersection 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.760 of mental health, Joel and financial wealth. Little let's try 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:45.800 to rhyme a little bit there, but she uses her 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.320 own experiences like achieving financial independence by the age of 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:51.880 thirty one, by the way, which is amazing, in order 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.720 to help others to achieve their own financial goals and 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:57.840 really like not just their financial goals, but their overall 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:01.360 life goals. As I am, I'm pretty sure that Hung 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.120 would agree that simply having more money like that isn't 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.679 the goal in and of itself, but rather it's a 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:09.920 means to an end. That's how we talk about it 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.680 here on the show, and we're pumped to get into 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.560 everything related to personal finance today. Seang, thank you so 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.759 much for taking the time to speak with us today. 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:20.880 Matt and Joel, I am so excited to be here. 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:22.240 Thank you so much for having me. 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.040 We're excited too, Sean, and so much ground to cover. 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:27.240 But first question, we got to get out of the way. 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:29.920 What's your craft beer equivalent? What do you like to Splurgeohn? 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:32.800 I mean, we know Matt just said you achieved financial 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:34.920 independence by the age of thirty one, so you're saving, 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.520 investing for your future. But what do you explore John? Simultaneously? 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:39.880 I know you guys wanted me to say wet food 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.880 for my cats. Unfortunately that is not my splurge. My splurge, 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.280 which actually doesn't even cost all that much money, it's 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:50.720 more time and effort, is lay flat business class seats 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.960 on leisure flights with my husband. 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:55.919 I've still never done that. That sounds amazing. 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:57.840 I've never done it. Okay, So time and effort and 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.240 one of these days, yeah, we'll be able to make 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:00.720 it happen. 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:01.840 How do you pull it off? 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.880 We use points and miles, so where those people who 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.720 you know rack up points using credit card bonus sign ups, 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.519 and then you just wait for the right opportunity to 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:13.400 book them, usually about a year in advance. 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:14.040 Nice. 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.520 How many more miles does it take to get the 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.600 live flat seat, let's say going to Europe or something 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.440 like that, versus how many miles does it take to 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.160 sit in the back of the plane where Matt nice it. 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:26.920 Typically, I mean it's going to vary by airline and 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.440 the way the day price it. But yeah, usually it's 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.200 like three to four times more. But if you're able 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:36.079 to find sweet spots, that's the thing. Like, the way 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.680 that they work is that some airlines price it higher 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.560 for regions that are more higher demand than others. And 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.480 so for example, this is an interesting one. We used 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:50.120 to do this thing where we flew Turkish airlines through 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.840 a code share with United to go from mainland US 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.960 to Hawaii because it's not a popular route for Turkish airlines, 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.200 but it's a popular route for Americans. Turkish airlines prices 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:03.520 is at a very low rate. And that's how you 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:03.840 do it. 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.720 Very cool, Okay, I swear you turned this into a 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:07.240 travel hacker. 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.640 So we've plenty to talk about travel hacking. 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:13.280 But how much secret secrets of the rich travels? 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.200 How many of your of that points a cruel process 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:19.320 has to do with you, has to do with like 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.440 your business, the fact that you are self employed, you've 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.440 got your own company versus personal spending. 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.680 You can do a completely off of personal spending. That 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.200 being said, it's not that we spend a lot, it's 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:34.320 actually that we give a lot. We basically route most 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:38.240 of our charitable giving through our credit cards in chunks 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.720 at a time, and that's how we're largely able to 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:43.800 meet those minimum spends of you know, a couple of 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.680 thousand dollars to get the high sign up points. That 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.000 being said, yes, I also use business credit cards for that. 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.160 But actually my husband would say, hey, Sean, are you 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.480 going to meet this amount of business spend in this 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.080 time from I'm actually like, no, I run a pretty 0:03:58.120 --> 0:03:59.120 low cost business. 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:05.000 I'm sorry show you say that you had an abundant 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.320 supply of ambition, and we've kind of dug into your 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.480 story a little bit. It seems like an understatement because 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.920 you graduated from Harvard with an economics degree. Shortly thereafter 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.279 you got a consulting gig, but then on top of 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.320 that you still launched a photography business on the side. 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.159 Is the way it makes some additional money. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:26.120 I guess it drives you like, like why. 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.159 Were you going after all of these multiple options all 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.719 at once as opposed to I don't know, like especially 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:33.599 given your I guess the pedigree. It seems like someone 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.160 like you would sort of double down on the thing 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:38.320 that would allow most folks to move the needle in 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:39.880 a significant way. But I want to, I guess I 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:41.760 want to kind of get a peek into your your 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:42.440 thought process. 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:47.599 There probably driven by two emotions, one being revenge and 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.640 the other one being curiosity. I guess is that an emotion. 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.080 I'm not sure revenge. I actually talk about this in 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.560 the beginning the introduction of my book. I was heavily 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.880 bullied throughout middle school and high school for being a nerd, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.479 and I was like, you know what, it's time for 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.440 the revenge of the nerd. So I was just on 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.920 this blazing path in my early twenties to say, I'm 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.880 going to prove all those high school bullies wrong by 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:17.040 just being freaking accomplished. And it's so silly to think 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:18.880 about it now because I'm thirty nine. Now, I'm like, 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.240 who were my high school bullies? I don't remember their names. 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:23.520 I'm not going to even find them then to show them, Hey, 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.479 Shum made it. But that was the first driving emotion, 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:31.480 and then curiosity and management consulting. It's a great job, 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.160 but in the beginning, when you're that first your analyst, 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.520 it is pretty much a research slog, like you're doing 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.720 the worst kind of grut to work. And a lot 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:41.479 of it is just doing a lot of googling and 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.839 cleaning data. And I had a creative side to me, 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.400 and I had no outlet for it. Fortunately I had 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:51.240 enough photography training. I'm like, well, let's just try to 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.560 run a photography business. I really don't know how that 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.720 came to my mind as like the way to solve 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.640 my boredom, but that was what I decided to do, 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:03.000 and that thing, hoe fully actually became a huge cornerstone 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.159 of my ability to build wealth because I didn't spend 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:10.080 a cent from that business, just invested everything from it. 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:12.839 Wow. Well, and you and Matt have that in common. 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.880 That was a long time photographer's wife. 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.839 And I launched it, yeah, back in two thousand and seven, 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.520 so azing. Unlike you, I didn't go to Harvard, I 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.520 didn't have this consulting gig. Is that we definitely were 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:26.719 spending the money that we're making. Well, still, we were 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.160 able to start investing at a pretty yngly Some people call. 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.480 Uga the Harvard of the South right exactly. 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:33.680 Yeah, And it was a blast, I mean, had a 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:34.480 ton of fun doing it. 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.480 Sean, how big did that business get? And was it 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.760 tough to balance having a full time job that seems 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.640 like it was somewhat demanding with a side household that 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.039 it seems like it became a little unruly at times too. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.240 Yeah. I was working, I mean at times ninety hours 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.240 a week because sixty to seventy dedicated to my full 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.840 time job, and then the remaining which is mostly late 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.880 nights and weekends, dedicated to photography. I was being published national, 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.880 like I was known, Like some people would pay for 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.200 me to fly to photograph their weddings, and I was 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:07.920 just like, I don't know how I got through that, 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.920 Probably just by sheer stamina of being young. I think 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.440 that's really the best way to describe it. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.440 If you're talking to someone now who says, seize your story, 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.400 they see financial independence at thirty one, there may be 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.480 on the cusp of starting a career. Would you recommend 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.000 that strategy or that's a tough thing too, right? It 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.200 is because you go through something so arduous and it 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.200 got you where you want it to be. But it 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:37.560 also it didn't have it didn't come without downsides correct. 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.840 I missed out the vast majority of my five year 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:42.880 college reunion, which is a fun one because that's the 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:44.960 one where you party in the most, because I was 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.120 photographing two weddings that same weekend and I just could 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:52.000 not do it. And I did over time, even though 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.200 it changed. I had a clear reason why I wanted 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.120 to do this. First it was just make as much 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.600 money as freaking possible, and then reason eventually evolved to 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.320 do it now. Have financial freedom now so that when 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.960 things get harder, you can pull back. And because I 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:14.680 was committed to those reasons, understanding that it comes at 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.480 certain costs, and I weigh those pros and cons and 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.600 I'm like, I'm willing to do this, I went for it. 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.600 And when people read my story, I'm not saying this 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.760 has to be for everyone. I'm just saying, hey, take 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.679 what you want from it, and learn from how over 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.120 time I understood the mental health is a huge part 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.120 of this, and at the very least, make your mental 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.600 health front and center whenever you decide to pursue something 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:42.000 like this. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.160 Totally, it's not surprising that you, like I feel like 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:49.719 you were taking a very research based, analytical approach to frontloading. 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:50.080 The sacrifice like this. 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.439 So going back to photography, like you know, you mentioned 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.280 how like y'all weren't touching that money at all when 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:56.080 you got married. 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.560 You also chose to live off of the lower of your. 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:00.880 Two incomes, which I think, I think to most folks 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.719 sounds pretty radical. Was this also to essentially be able 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:06.679 to give you and your husband for y'all to have 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:07.760 more options down the road? 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.080 Ah? Yeah. I actually credit him for the idea, because 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.920 that was not mine. He had been very influenced with 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.880 a lot of readings, particularly this one book by Elizabeth 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:22.800 Warren where it detailed how the two income trapped Today, 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.800 it's actually harder for families with two incomes today to 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:29.920 live at the same standard living than several decades ago. 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.560 Cause of living has just risen significantly. He noted, Look, 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:38.320 the reality is you are a female. You can't change that, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.520 not really. And the moment you become pregnant, the moment 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.120 you become a mother to a young child, it's going 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.120 to affect your career. It's going to affect your ability 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.959 to really push that career. So what if we kind 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.640 of head off that fear of loss of income or 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.240 loss of career trajectory by just securing it now when 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.920 we don't have kids. Best way to do it, the 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.880 easiest way to mathematically approximate it is we live off 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.200 of one income today, so that in the future, if 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.240 one of us does not earn income, we wouldn't be 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:12.640 that financially affected. 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.280 Yes, like you don't have to change a thing then, 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.320 because you're used to just the one income. And yeah, 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.160 there's some extra expenses having that baby, but you've also 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.560 funneled aside that income for so long that you can 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.240 tap into some of those resources when or if you 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.280 decided to stop working. Exactly why do you think nobody 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.040 does that? Shun? I mean, it feels like it's incredibly 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.320 countercultural to have that money flowing in and then to 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.160 say we're not spending a time of it. 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:45.400 Yeah, well it's not really celebrated, it's not sexy, it's 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:50.000 not made for Instagram for example. And also, I think 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:54.400 that most of the conversations that I entered in business 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.920 school going to women's you know, women's NBA panels and 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.480 all those corporate panels, is they're trying to encourage you 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.000 to try to figure out to make it as both 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.280 a working person and also as a mom's young children, 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.600 they're like, you can still make it work. And what 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:12.880 my husband and I are saying is, let's be real, 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:15.840 it's not going to be the same. And I don't 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.200 think most people want to confront that reality. They want 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.360 to ignore it or use more money to solve for it, 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.559 whereas we're saying, we're not using more money to at 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:28.720 that time to solve for it. We're building up the 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.720 financial base now. But again that comes with a sacrifice 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.240 of not being able to party or travel or eat 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.840 out as much as our NBA counterparts and just leading 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:40.520 more of a quiet, frugal life. 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:42.240 How much of that do you think has to do 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.600 with your happiness now? Like literally Jill and I were 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:46.960 having a conversation this morning as we're walking to go 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.600 get some coffee. But how when you shift your expectations 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.679 for what you are looking for in life, Like so, 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.040 you know, we did the quote unquote smart things when 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.760 we were younger, we started investing, but because of that, 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.280 it meant that there wasn't i don't know, like a 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.160 super high bar as to what like to the degree 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.160 of partying that we should have been doing. And so 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.480 then you move on in life and you enter into 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.440 a new stage, and the fact that we're not doing 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.160 those things. It's like we've sort of set our expectations 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.240 back in our twenties of what we want our lives 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.400 to look like. Therefore, like right now we both feel 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.040 incredibly blessed, incredibly happy. 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:23.120 These are the salad days. 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:23.440 Yeah. 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.560 Yeah, do you feel that way regards I mean, just 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:27.560 because of the fact that you and your husband, that 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.200 y'all set yourselves up for so many different options like that. 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.839 I mean, who gets to claim that she can basically 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.400 nap anytime she wants school? 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:37.440 That's pretty nice. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.760 Yeah, that is literally my day. I sometimes choose to 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:42.439 nap on top of. 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.920 That financial independence, you can nap whenever you want. That's 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:45.520 great branding. 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.280 No nap whenever you want. I also, I was in 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:51.440 a very corporate culture for many years and work for 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.560 two fortune five hundred corporate companies, and you cannot be 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.640 your authentic self when you're high up in corporate. You 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.920 serve shareholders, you report to the c suite. You have 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.920 to walk, talk, and act a certain way in order 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:10.520 for you to maintain job security. And that also comes 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:12.840 with I mean literally there's email chains for someone sayce, 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.200 you have to keep track of fifty people that just 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.640 you know, that's a lot of work. And I walked 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:19.240 away from that because I was like, I'm kind of 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.000 sick and tired of it, and I don't need to 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:25.400 do it, and that takes away so much weight off 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:29.760 of my shoulders. Every day. I started noticing I left 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.800 corporate middle of twenty twenty three after having my second child, 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:35.960 that I was just like, I was starting to just 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.319 be happy again in the morning, looking forward to waking up, 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:43.040 driving down with narrowive thought on my mind, no stress, 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.400 no pressure other than okay, let's make sure my kids 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:49.040 don't off themselves. That's also a challenge, but it's a 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:53.200 different set of challenges that is incredibly fulfilling for me. 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:55.800 And I don't feel like I'm giving away the best 0:13:55.920 --> 0:14:00.040 time of my life to somebody who doesn't really deserve it. 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.280 Yeah, that's great, Okay. To get there, though, you had 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.400 to not only have the two incomes and live on 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.720 just one of them. You had to then, I guess, 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.439 dial back, the expenses significantly compared to your peers who 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:15.960 were in similar positions. The New York Post ended up 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:19.840 calling you the millennial cheap skate. I'm like, what lengths 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.120 were you going to to reduce expenses? And maybe what 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.960 are some of the more odd ones, because those are 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.560 always fun to go over, the things that people mostly 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:29.880 aren't thinking about. 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:31.680 I think I was in such a bubble with my 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.680 husband that it didn't occur to me how weird we were. 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:36.760 And I'm not sure if this is even weird, So 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.880 I'll just talk the top things that really moved the needle. 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:44.960 Number one, we got into a rent stabilized apartment, which 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.760 is clutch because your rent doesn't really go up, but 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.960 it's below market rent. I think relative to our peers, 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.200 we were probably saving two maybe three thousand dollars a month, 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.760 relative different as day we're paying. But Grant sed the 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.840 department is ramshackle, the toilet often breaks, and there was 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:06.960 a two burner stove, no prep space. You know, it's 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:12.040 missing some key skeleton bones. And then another one, which 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.560 I think most New Yorkers can relate to, is no 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.560 car ownership. Now I live in Sound in California, you 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.800 cannot get anywhere without a car. It's actually very significant 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.640 part of your budget because it's paying for the car 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.720 and the gas. If you have a gas car, the 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.000 insurance which always goes up, and the maintenance when the 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.200 car starts to break down, not to mention registration fees, 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.840 et cetera, et cetera. So those are number one, and 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.880 number two is housing and transportation. Number three came down 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.720 to our daily food. Both my husband and I worked 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.280 jobs where they would compass food at night if we 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.720 work past a certain hour, which we almost always did 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.480 at that point, so we were smart about which restaurants 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:50.640 we ordered from such that it would give us enough 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.320 for leftovers the next day, so no need to pack lunch. 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:58.360 So basically Monday the Friday eight very spends very little 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.840 on groceries. As I mentioned earlier in the podcast, we 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.920 used a lot of points and miles to travel at 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.840 that time, not lay flat seats. This is normal economy. 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.240 And you know, at that time was still okay to 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:13.360 crash at friend's houses and not get a weird look 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.400 because we offered the same then clothing that we rarely 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.120 bought clothing, and when I did, I did it off 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:26.960 of sample sales clothing swaps of my friends consignment. Poshmark 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.520 had just started, so it's buying on Poshmark and eBay. 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:34.400 And also like by virtue of having a tiny apartment 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:35.960 it was four hundred and twenty square feet. You just 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:37.000 can't own a. 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:38.840 Lot of things, a lot of stuff. 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.400 Yeah yeah, So I mean I borrowed like hiking gear 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.480 a bar from a friend who hiked a lot. Sometimes 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.760 I would just go without some things like hey do 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.080 I really need to have this or can something else 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.840 be used instead? And you just learned to live off 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.600 of very little throughout, So it's hard to say what 0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:59.600 really moved a needil. I think it was literally just 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.280 like look at every spending category in our life and 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.359 ask ourselves what is it that we're truly trying to 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.879 get at and can we get at that with a 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:10.280 relatively low cost. 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.040 Well, I mean it sounds like sounds like you addressed everything. 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.440 I mean literally starting with the biggest ones, right housing, 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.320 then transportation that you address, food, you address clothing, Like 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.119 these are all the spending categories, and so if you 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.080 have if you're challenging yourself in some way in each 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.600 one of those categories, you're going to see a massive 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.679 savings rate. And it's fascinating too. I mean, like I 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.080 hear you saying, like talking through all these areas of 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:32.960 life and It tells me that you've got to be 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.359 on the same page as your husband. You said that 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.520 you give him credit with you know, hey, we're only 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.280 going to live on one of our incomes. Were you 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:42.399 looking for that or were you did you find yourself 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:44.440 naturally drawn to that, because it almost sounds like he 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.960 may have been the original fire convert, like maybe he 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.320 kind of came across it. Correct me if I'm wrong, 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.159 But I'm curious if you how important you think that 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.520 is to have a partner who's fully on board like that. 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.200 I think you need to have one hundred percent trust 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.320 in your partner should you choose to marry them. And 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.600 even though at the time I couldn't really see what 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.879 was ahead, partially because I was still like, well, I 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:09.760 don't know, I think we keep working, it wasn't We 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.720 weren't going for fire. We were going for financial security 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:16.080 in the event of having a child. So that's very different. 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.280 And I later learned that we were doing things that 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.879 the fire community was doing, and I was like, oh, okay, 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.720 I didn't know that this is called fire. And at 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.320 first I did fight against it because I had not 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.959 resolved a lot of my own issues related to friendship 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.679 and mental health and things like that. So in the 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.160 process of me fighting the budget and trying to make 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.359 it work because I earnestly wanted us to have a 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.560 good marriage and I wanted to make the budget work, 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:43.840 but I was the one that was spending over budget 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.520 for several months. That's how I came to realize this 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.560 had nothing to do with my math skills, with my 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.119 budgeting skills, which I was already pretty good at, but 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.840 everything to do with my attitude and where I was 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.280 deriving joy and meeting from. And once I realized that 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.320 that was the root cause and I started addressing that, 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.880 we were able to align much more quickly going forward 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:08.439 on our financial goals. 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.399 You guys had some disagreements along the way, right, That's 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:13.160 kind of what you're hinting at too. What were those 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.680 conversations like when you're talking about savings rate and the 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.240 ideal savings rate, where to pair back, what the budget 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.440 should look like? Because I love that you point out 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.760 kind of the change that needs to happen and what 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.440 brings you meaning. But there is also the reality too 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.520 that you might say, I don't know a seventy percent 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.080 savings rate. Do we actually need to hit. 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.680 That I definitely challenged it because I wanted to quote 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.679 unquote enjoy more life. Now I was the more social 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.720 one in the relationship. I wanted to see my friends 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.000 more often, and I felt restricted by the budget. There 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.560 were networking events that I gave up on because I 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.439