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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel Matt. Today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about cultivating a wealthy mindset with Shunk Savedra. That's right.

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Speaker 2: Our guest today is a financial coach. She's the founder

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Speaker 2: of the site Save My Sense and she's now the

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Speaker 2: author of the book Wealth Is a Mindset, which was

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Speaker 2: recently published, and Seung Savedra. She lives at the intersection

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Speaker 2: of mental health, Joel and financial wealth. Little let's try

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Speaker 2: to rhyme a little bit there, but she uses her

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Speaker 2: own experiences like achieving financial independence by the age of

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Speaker 2: thirty one, by the way, which is amazing, in order

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Speaker 2: to help others to achieve their own financial goals and

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Speaker 2: really like not just their financial goals, but their overall

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Speaker 2: life goals. As I am, I'm pretty sure that Hung

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Speaker 2: would agree that simply having more money like that isn't

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Speaker 2: the goal in and of itself, but rather it's a

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Speaker 2: means to an end. That's how we talk about it

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Speaker 2: here on the show, and we're pumped to get into

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Speaker 2: everything related to personal finance today. Seang, thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for taking the time to speak with us today.

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Speaker 3: Matt and Joel, I am so excited to be here.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: We're excited too, Sean, and so much ground to cover.

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Speaker 1: But first question, we got to get out of the way.

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Speaker 1: What's your craft beer equivalent? What do you like to Splurgeohn?

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Speaker 1: I mean, we know Matt just said you achieved financial

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Speaker 1: independence by the age of thirty one, so you're saving,

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Speaker 1: investing for your future. But what do you explore John? Simultaneously?

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Speaker 3: I know you guys wanted me to say wet food

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Speaker 3: for my cats. Unfortunately that is not my splurge. My splurge,

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Speaker 3: which actually doesn't even cost all that much money, it's

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Speaker 3: more time and effort, is lay flat business class seats

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Speaker 3: on leisure flights with my husband.

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Speaker 1: I've still never done that. That sounds amazing.

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Speaker 2: I've never done it. Okay, So time and effort and

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Speaker 2: one of these days, yeah, we'll be able to make

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Speaker 2: it happen.

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Speaker 1: How do you pull it off?

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Speaker 3: We use points and miles, so where those people who

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Speaker 3: you know rack up points using credit card bonus sign ups,

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Speaker 3: and then you just wait for the right opportunity to

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Speaker 3: book them, usually about a year in advance.

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Speaker 2: Nice.

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Speaker 1: How many more miles does it take to get the

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Speaker 1: live flat seat, let's say going to Europe or something

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Speaker 1: like that, versus how many miles does it take to

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Speaker 1: sit in the back of the plane where Matt nice it.

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Speaker 3: Typically, I mean it's going to vary by airline and

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Speaker 3: the way the day price it. But yeah, usually it's

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Speaker 3: like three to four times more. But if you're able

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Speaker 3: to find sweet spots, that's the thing. Like, the way

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Speaker 3: that they work is that some airlines price it higher

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Speaker 3: for regions that are more higher demand than others. And

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Speaker 3: so for example, this is an interesting one. We used

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Speaker 3: to do this thing where we flew Turkish airlines through

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Speaker 3: a code share with United to go from mainland US

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Speaker 3: to Hawaii because it's not a popular route for Turkish airlines,

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Speaker 3: but it's a popular route for Americans. Turkish airlines prices

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Speaker 3: is at a very low rate. And that's how you

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 1: Very cool, Okay, I swear you turned this into a

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Speaker 1: travel hacker.

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Speaker 2: So we've plenty to talk about travel hacking.

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Speaker 3: But how much secret secrets of the rich travels?

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Speaker 2: How many of your of that points a cruel process

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Speaker 2: has to do with you, has to do with like

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Speaker 2: your business, the fact that you are self employed, you've

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Speaker 2: got your own company versus personal spending.

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Speaker 3: You can do a completely off of personal spending. That

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Speaker 3: being said, it's not that we spend a lot, it's

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Speaker 3: actually that we give a lot. We basically route most

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Speaker 3: of our charitable giving through our credit cards in chunks

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Speaker 3: at a time, and that's how we're largely able to

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Speaker 3: meet those minimum spends of you know, a couple of

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars to get the high sign up points. That

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Speaker 3: being said, yes, I also use business credit cards for that.

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Speaker 3: But actually my husband would say, hey, Sean, are you

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Speaker 3: going to meet this amount of business spend in this

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Speaker 3: time from I'm actually like, no, I run a pretty

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Speaker 3: low cost business.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry show you say that you had an abundant

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Speaker 2: supply of ambition, and we've kind of dug into your

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Speaker 2: story a little bit. It seems like an understatement because

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Speaker 2: you graduated from Harvard with an economics degree. Shortly thereafter

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Speaker 2: you got a consulting gig, but then on top of

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Speaker 2: that you still launched a photography business on the side.

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Speaker 2: Is the way it makes some additional money.

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Speaker 1: I guess it drives you like, like why.

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Speaker 2: Were you going after all of these multiple options all

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Speaker 2: at once as opposed to I don't know, like especially

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Speaker 2: given your I guess the pedigree. It seems like someone

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Speaker 2: like you would sort of double down on the thing

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Speaker 2: that would allow most folks to move the needle in

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Speaker 2: a significant way. But I want to, I guess I

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Speaker 2: want to kind of get a peek into your your

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Speaker 2: thought process.

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Speaker 3: There probably driven by two emotions, one being revenge and

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Speaker 3: the other one being curiosity. I guess is that an emotion.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure revenge. I actually talk about this in

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Speaker 3: the beginning the introduction of my book. I was heavily

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Speaker 3: bullied throughout middle school and high school for being a nerd,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, you know what, it's time for

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Speaker 3: the revenge of the nerd. So I was just on

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Speaker 3: this blazing path in my early twenties to say, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to prove all those high school bullies wrong by

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Speaker 3: just being freaking accomplished. And it's so silly to think

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Speaker 3: about it now because I'm thirty nine. Now, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: who were my high school bullies? I don't remember their names.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to even find them then to show them, Hey,

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Speaker 3: Shum made it. But that was the first driving emotion,

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Speaker 3: and then curiosity and management consulting. It's a great job,

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Speaker 3: but in the beginning, when you're that first your analyst,

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Speaker 3: it is pretty much a research slog, like you're doing

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Speaker 3: the worst kind of grut to work. And a lot

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Speaker 3: of it is just doing a lot of googling and

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Speaker 3: cleaning data. And I had a creative side to me,

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Speaker 3: and I had no outlet for it. Fortunately I had

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Speaker 3: enough photography training. I'm like, well, let's just try to

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Speaker 3: run a photography business. I really don't know how that

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Speaker 3: came to my mind as like the way to solve

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Speaker 3: my boredom, but that was what I decided to do,

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Speaker 3: and that thing, hoe fully actually became a huge cornerstone

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Speaker 3: of my ability to build wealth because I didn't spend

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Speaker 3: a cent from that business, just invested everything from it.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Well, and you and Matt have that in common.

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Speaker 1: That was a long time photographer's wife.

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Speaker 2: And I launched it, yeah, back in two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 2: so azing. Unlike you, I didn't go to Harvard, I

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Speaker 2: didn't have this consulting gig. Is that we definitely were

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Speaker 2: spending the money that we're making. Well, still, we were

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Speaker 2: able to start investing at a pretty yngly Some people call.

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Speaker 1: Uga the Harvard of the South right exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was a blast, I mean, had a

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Speaker 2: ton of fun doing it.

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Speaker 1: Sean, how big did that business get? And was it

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Speaker 1: tough to balance having a full time job that seems

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Speaker 1: like it was somewhat demanding with a side household that

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Speaker 1: it seems like it became a little unruly at times too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I was working, I mean at times ninety hours

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Speaker 3: a week because sixty to seventy dedicated to my full

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Speaker 3: time job, and then the remaining which is mostly late

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Speaker 3: nights and weekends, dedicated to photography. I was being published national,

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Speaker 3: like I was known, Like some people would pay for

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Speaker 3: me to fly to photograph their weddings, and I was

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Speaker 3: just like, I don't know how I got through that,

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Speaker 3: Probably just by sheer stamina of being young. I think

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Speaker 3: that's really the best way to describe it.

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Speaker 1: If you're talking to someone now who says, seize your story,

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Speaker 1: they see financial independence at thirty one, there may be

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Speaker 1: on the cusp of starting a career. Would you recommend

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Speaker 1: that strategy or that's a tough thing too, right? It

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Speaker 1: is because you go through something so arduous and it

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Speaker 1: got you where you want it to be. But it

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Speaker 1: also it didn't have it didn't come without downsides correct.

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Speaker 3: I missed out the vast majority of my five year

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Speaker 3: college reunion, which is a fun one because that's the

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Speaker 3: one where you party in the most, because I was

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Speaker 3: photographing two weddings that same weekend and I just could

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Speaker 3: not do it. And I did over time, even though

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Speaker 3: it changed. I had a clear reason why I wanted

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Speaker 3: to do this. First it was just make as much

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Speaker 3: money as freaking possible, and then reason eventually evolved to

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Speaker 3: do it now. Have financial freedom now so that when

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Speaker 3: things get harder, you can pull back. And because I

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Speaker 3: was committed to those reasons, understanding that it comes at

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Speaker 3: certain costs, and I weigh those pros and cons and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm willing to do this, I went for it.

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Speaker 3: And when people read my story, I'm not saying this

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Speaker 3: has to be for everyone. I'm just saying, hey, take

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Speaker 3: what you want from it, and learn from how over

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Speaker 3: time I understood the mental health is a huge part

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Speaker 3: of this, and at the very least, make your mental

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Speaker 3: health front and center whenever you decide to pursue something

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Speaker 3: like this.

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Speaker 2: Totally, it's not surprising that you, like I feel like

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Speaker 2: you were taking a very research based, analytical approach to frontloading.

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Speaker 1: The sacrifice like this.

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Speaker 2: So going back to photography, like you know, you mentioned

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Speaker 2: how like y'all weren't touching that money at all when

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Speaker 2: you got married.

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Speaker 1: You also chose to live off of the lower of your.

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Speaker 2: Two incomes, which I think, I think to most folks

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Speaker 2: sounds pretty radical. Was this also to essentially be able

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Speaker 2: to give you and your husband for y'all to have

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Speaker 2: more options down the road?

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Speaker 3: Ah? Yeah. I actually credit him for the idea, because

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Speaker 3: that was not mine. He had been very influenced with

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Speaker 3: a lot of readings, particularly this one book by Elizabeth

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Speaker 3: Warren where it detailed how the two income trapped Today,

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Speaker 3: it's actually harder for families with two incomes today to

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Speaker 3: live at the same standard living than several decades ago.

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Speaker 3: Cause of living has just risen significantly. He noted, Look,

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Speaker 3: the reality is you are a female. You can't change that,

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Speaker 3: not really. And the moment you become pregnant, the moment

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Speaker 3: you become a mother to a young child, it's going

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Speaker 3: to affect your career. It's going to affect your ability

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Speaker 3: to really push that career. So what if we kind

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Speaker 3: of head off that fear of loss of income or

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Speaker 3: loss of career trajectory by just securing it now when

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Speaker 3: we don't have kids. Best way to do it, the

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Speaker 3: easiest way to mathematically approximate it is we live off

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Speaker 3: of one income today, so that in the future, if

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Speaker 3: one of us does not earn income, we wouldn't be

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Speaker 3: that financially affected.

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Speaker 1: Yes, like you don't have to change a thing then,

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Speaker 1: because you're used to just the one income. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some extra expenses having that baby, but you've also

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Speaker 1: funneled aside that income for so long that you can

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Speaker 1: tap into some of those resources when or if you

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Speaker 1: decided to stop working. Exactly why do you think nobody

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Speaker 1: does that? Shun? I mean, it feels like it's incredibly

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Speaker 1: countercultural to have that money flowing in and then to

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Speaker 1: say we're not spending a time of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's not really celebrated, it's not sexy, it's

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Speaker 3: not made for Instagram for example. And also, I think

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Speaker 3: that most of the conversations that I entered in business

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Speaker 3: school going to women's you know, women's NBA panels and

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Speaker 3: all those corporate panels, is they're trying to encourage you

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Speaker 3: to try to figure out to make it as both

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Speaker 3: a working person and also as a mom's young children,

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Speaker 3: they're like, you can still make it work. And what

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Speaker 3: my husband and I are saying is, let's be real,

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Speaker 3: it's not going to be the same. And I don't

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Speaker 3: think most people want to confront that reality. They want

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Speaker 3: to ignore it or use more money to solve for it,

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Speaker 3: whereas we're saying, we're not using more money to at

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Speaker 3: that time to solve for it. We're building up the

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Speaker 3: financial base now. But again that comes with a sacrifice

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Speaker 3: of not being able to party or travel or eat

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Speaker 3: out as much as our NBA counterparts and just leading

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Speaker 3: more of a quiet, frugal life.

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Speaker 2: How much of that do you think has to do

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Speaker 2: with your happiness now? Like literally Jill and I were

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Speaker 2: having a conversation this morning as we're walking to go

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Speaker 2: get some coffee. But how when you shift your expectations

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Speaker 2: for what you are looking for in life, Like so,

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Speaker 2: you know, we did the quote unquote smart things when

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Speaker 2: we were younger, we started investing, but because of that,

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Speaker 2: it meant that there wasn't i don't know, like a

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Speaker 2: super high bar as to what like to the degree

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Speaker 2: of partying that we should have been doing. And so

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Speaker 2: then you move on in life and you enter into

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Speaker 2: a new stage, and the fact that we're not doing

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Speaker 2: those things. It's like we've sort of set our expectations

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Speaker 2: back in our twenties of what we want our lives

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Speaker 2: to look like. Therefore, like right now we both feel

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Speaker 2: incredibly blessed, incredibly happy.

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Speaker 1: These are the salad days.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you feel that way regards I mean, just

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Speaker 2: because of the fact that you and your husband, that

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Speaker 2: y'all set yourselves up for so many different options like that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, who gets to claim that she can basically

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Speaker 3: nap anytime she wants school?

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Speaker 2: That's pretty nice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that is literally my day. I sometimes choose to

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Speaker 3: nap on top of.

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Speaker 1: That financial independence, you can nap whenever you want. That's

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Speaker 1: great branding.

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Speaker 3: No nap whenever you want. I also, I was in

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Speaker 3: a very corporate culture for many years and work for

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Speaker 3: two fortune five hundred corporate companies, and you cannot be

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Speaker 3: your authentic self when you're high up in corporate. You

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Speaker 3: serve shareholders, you report to the c suite. You have

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Speaker 3: to walk, talk, and act a certain way in order

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Speaker 3: for you to maintain job security. And that also comes

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Speaker 3: with I mean literally there's email chains for someone sayce,

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Speaker 3: you have to keep track of fifty people that just

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Speaker 3: you know, that's a lot of work. And I walked

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Speaker 3: away from that because I was like, I'm kind of

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Speaker 3: sick and tired of it, and I don't need to

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Speaker 3: do it, and that takes away so much weight off

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Speaker 3: of my shoulders. Every day. I started noticing I left

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Speaker 3: corporate middle of twenty twenty three after having my second child,

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Speaker 3: that I was just like, I was starting to just

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Speaker 3: be happy again in the morning, looking forward to waking up,

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Speaker 3: driving down with narrowive thought on my mind, no stress,

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Speaker 3: no pressure other than okay, let's make sure my kids

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Speaker 3: don't off themselves. That's also a challenge, but it's a

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Speaker 3: different set of challenges that is incredibly fulfilling for me.

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Speaker 3: And I don't feel like I'm giving away the best

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Speaker 3: time of my life to somebody who doesn't really deserve it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, Okay. To get there, though, you had

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Speaker 1: to not only have the two incomes and live on

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Speaker 1: just one of them. You had to then, I guess,

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Speaker 1: dial back, the expenses significantly compared to your peers who

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Speaker 1: were in similar positions. The New York Post ended up

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Speaker 1: calling you the millennial cheap skate. I'm like, what lengths

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Speaker 1: were you going to to reduce expenses? And maybe what

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Speaker 1: are some of the more odd ones, because those are

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Speaker 1: always fun to go over, the things that people mostly

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Speaker 1: aren't thinking about.

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Speaker 3: I think I was in such a bubble with my

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Speaker 3: husband that it didn't occur to me how weird we were.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not sure if this is even weird, So

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Speaker 3: I'll just talk the top things that really moved the needle.

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Speaker 3: Number one, we got into a rent stabilized apartment, which

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Speaker 3: is clutch because your rent doesn't really go up, but

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Speaker 3: it's below market rent. I think relative to our peers,

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Speaker 3: we were probably saving two maybe three thousand dollars a month,

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Speaker 3: relative different as day we're paying. But Grant sed the

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Speaker 3: department is ramshackle, the toilet often breaks, and there was

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Speaker 3: a two burner stove, no prep space. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: missing some key skeleton bones. And then another one, which

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Speaker 3: I think most New Yorkers can relate to, is no

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Speaker 3: car ownership. Now I live in Sound in California, you

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Speaker 3: cannot get anywhere without a car. It's actually very significant

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Speaker 3: part of your budget because it's paying for the car

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Speaker 3: and the gas. If you have a gas car, the

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Speaker 3: insurance which always goes up, and the maintenance when the

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Speaker 3: car starts to break down, not to mention registration fees,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. So those are number one, and

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Speaker 3: number two is housing and transportation. Number three came down

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Speaker 3: to our daily food. Both my husband and I worked

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Speaker 3: jobs where they would compass food at night if we

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Speaker 3: work past a certain hour, which we almost always did

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Speaker 3: at that point, so we were smart about which restaurants

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Speaker 3: we ordered from such that it would give us enough

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Speaker 3: for leftovers the next day, so no need to pack lunch.

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Speaker 3: So basically Monday the Friday eight very spends very little

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Speaker 3: on groceries. As I mentioned earlier in the podcast, we

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Speaker 3: used a lot of points and miles to travel at

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Speaker 3: that time, not lay flat seats. This is normal economy.

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Speaker 3: And you know, at that time was still okay to

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Speaker 3: crash at friend's houses and not get a weird look

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Speaker 3: because we offered the same then clothing that we rarely

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Speaker 3: bought clothing, and when I did, I did it off

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Speaker 3: of sample sales clothing swaps of my friends consignment. Poshmark

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Speaker 3: had just started, so it's buying on Poshmark and eBay.

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Speaker 3: And also like by virtue of having a tiny apartment

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Speaker 3: it was four hundred and twenty square feet. You just

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Speaker 3: can't own a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of things, a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, So I mean I borrowed like hiking gear

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Speaker 3: a bar from a friend who hiked a lot. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: I would just go without some things like hey do

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Speaker 3: I really need to have this or can something else

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Speaker 3: be used instead? And you just learned to live off

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Speaker 3: of very little throughout, So it's hard to say what

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Speaker 3: really moved a needil. I think it was literally just

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Speaker 3: like look at every spending category in our life and

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Speaker 3: ask ourselves what is it that we're truly trying to

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Speaker 3: get at and can we get at that with a

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Speaker 3: relatively low cost.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean it sounds like sounds like you addressed everything.

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Speaker 2: I mean literally starting with the biggest ones, right housing,

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Speaker 2: then transportation that you address, food, you address clothing, Like

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Speaker 2: these are all the spending categories, and so if you

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Speaker 2: have if you're challenging yourself in some way in each

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Speaker 2: one of those categories, you're going to see a massive

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Speaker 2: savings rate. And it's fascinating too. I mean, like I

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Speaker 2: hear you saying, like talking through all these areas of

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Speaker 2: life and It tells me that you've got to be

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Speaker 2: on the same page as your husband. You said that

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Speaker 2: you give him credit with you know, hey, we're only

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Speaker 2: going to live on one of our incomes. Were you

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Speaker 2: looking for that or were you did you find yourself

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Speaker 2: naturally drawn to that, because it almost sounds like he

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Speaker 2: may have been the original fire convert, like maybe he

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Speaker 2: kind of came across it. Correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 2: But I'm curious if you how important you think that

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Speaker 2: is to have a partner who's fully on board like that.

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Speaker 3: I think you need to have one hundred percent trust

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Speaker 3: in your partner should you choose to marry them. And

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Speaker 3: even though at the time I couldn't really see what

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Speaker 3: was ahead, partially because I was still like, well, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, I think we keep working, it wasn't We

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Speaker 3: weren't going for fire. We were going for financial security

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Speaker 3: in the event of having a child. So that's very different.

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Speaker 3: And I later learned that we were doing things that

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Speaker 3: the fire community was doing, and I was like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that this is called fire. And at

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Speaker 3: first I did fight against it because I had not

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Speaker 3: resolved a lot of my own issues related to friendship

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Speaker 3: and mental health and things like that. So in the

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Speaker 3: process of me fighting the budget and trying to make

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Speaker 3: it work because I earnestly wanted us to have a

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Speaker 3: good marriage and I wanted to make the budget work,

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Speaker 3: but I was the one that was spending over budget

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Speaker 3: for several months. That's how I came to realize this

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Speaker 3: had nothing to do with my math skills, with my

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Speaker 3: budgeting skills, which I was already pretty good at, but

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Speaker 3: everything to do with my attitude and where I was

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Speaker 3: deriving joy and meeting from. And once I realized that

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Speaker 3: that was the root cause and I started addressing that,

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Speaker 3: we were able to align much more quickly going forward

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Speaker 3: on our financial goals.

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Speaker 1: You guys had some disagreements along the way, right, That's

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Speaker 1: kind of what you're hinting at too. What were those

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Speaker 1: conversations like when you're talking about savings rate and the

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Speaker 1: ideal savings rate, where to pair back, what the budget

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Speaker 1: should look like? Because I love that you point out

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Speaker 1: kind of the change that needs to happen and what

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Speaker 1: brings you meaning. But there is also the reality too

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Speaker 1: that you might say, I don't know a seventy percent

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Speaker 1: savings rate. Do we actually need to hit.

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Speaker 3: That I definitely challenged it because I wanted to quote

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Speaker 3: unquote enjoy more life. Now I was the more social

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Speaker 3: one in the relationship. I wanted to see my friends

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Speaker 3: more often, and I felt restricted by the budget. There

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Speaker 3: were networking events that I gave up on because I

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Speaker 3: was like, the registration fee is too much for my

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Speaker 3: networking budget for that month. And the main kind of

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Speaker 3: argument between us was I thought I had had a

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Speaker 3: much longer career to go, and I thought that we

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Speaker 3: could just continue to make more money and enjoy a

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Speaker 3: little bit more. And he was looking ahead at the

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Speaker 3: reality of being a parent a young child, and he's thinking,

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Speaker 3: you know, that might not be the case, and it

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Speaker 3: is actually very meaningful to dedicate the young years towards

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Speaker 3: focusing on your children instead of the career. But obviously,

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Speaker 3: because neither of us were parents at the time, it

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Speaker 3: was really hard to understand what that actually meant. But

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Speaker 3: over time our other friends began having kids, I kind

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Speaker 3: of saw that happen, and also I was able to

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Speaker 3: fulfill my own social desires without having to splurge on

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Speaker 3: eating out with my friends like that. I just figured

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Speaker 3: that out problem, solved it, and we came closer to

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Speaker 3: sharing the same vision of what is the freedom that

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Speaker 3: we're truly working towards. And I finally learned over time

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Speaker 3: that joy, that freedom is not going to come from

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Speaker 3: a career. It's not going to come from fancy food

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Speaker 3: and nice clothing. It's truly the freedom to do whatever

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Speaker 3: the heck you wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: Like nap, I'm curious just to get super practical here.

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Speaker 2: I think I heard you say something about a career

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Speaker 2: networking budget. Did you have an actual line item for that?

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Speaker 2: And like, I mean, how specific how to the penny

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Speaker 2: did you get with your monthly budgets.

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Speaker 3: Yes, at the time, we were very specific in like

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Speaker 3: we had a line budget for food at home versus

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Speaker 3: food outside and entertainment and clothing and all of that.

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Speaker 3: Networking was important because we met a business school, you're

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Speaker 3: taught just innately how to network. So, for example, he

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Speaker 3: had a membership to a men's networking group. For me,

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Speaker 3: it was more one off events in different topics of

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Speaker 3: career things that I was interested in, and for the

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Speaker 3: most part it fit our budget. It was just that

438
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 3: every now and then an NBA oriented event would get

439
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 3: a bit fit and I was like, oops, that is

440
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 3: a little bit outside of my budget. And at that time,

441
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 3: the reason why it was so specific was primarily directed

442
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 3: at me, the person who overspent the budget. It was

443
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 3: just like, Okay, if you have a hard time, then

444
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 3: we're going to put boundaries on each category to try

445
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 3: to guide it. As I got better and better at

446
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 3: lowering my spending and also being happy with it, eventually

447
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 3: we moved to the system that we have now, which

448
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 3: is which is called the Trilling twelvemonth metric. In any

449
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 3: at any point in time, we average out our monthly

450
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 3: spending over the last twelve months, which kind of smooths

451
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 3: out seasonality like one time event, you know, Christmas for example,

452
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 3: and we take a look and now we're like wow.

453
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 3: Over the last eleven to twelve years of marriage, our

454
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 3: Trilling twelve month metric basically it grows in line with inflation.

455
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,479
Speaker 3: Like obviously, as inflation changes, the cost go up. And

456
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,719
Speaker 3: the main changes are when we add a child to

457
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 3: our family. We're now going on to three children by

458
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: the end of this year. Oh correct, and thank you.

459
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 3: Otherwise it's been pretty steady, Betty. And so because of that,

460
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 3: over this decade plus of working together on our finances,

461
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 3: We're no longer netpicking each thing anymore. And I don't

462
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 3: think at this point of marriage you should be. If

463
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 3: you are aligning, you work out those disagreements early on,

464
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 3: and you come to it with an open minded approach

465
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 3: of saying, my spouse isn't against me, it's work for

466
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: each other. It's just we have different approaches. Eventually it's

467
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 3: going to get easier.

468
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, we've got a lot more we want

469
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: to get to with you, Sean, specifically talking about saving

470
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: money and household finances with kids. We'll talk about that

471
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: stuff with you right after this.

472
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 2: Right, we are back from the break again speaking with

473
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 2: Sean Savedra and Sean, you mentioned this just a second ago.

474
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: You touched on how like a few years ago is

475
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: when you left Corporate America and you made that decision.

476
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: But it sounds like you that there's sort of like

477
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 2: the like a near death experience that was a part

478
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: of that. And you know, you're talking about your kids

479
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 2: and everything here. Talk to us about the birth of

480
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 2: your second child and how that, I guess seemed like

481
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: it allowed you to reevaluate some things in life.

482
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, things seemed fairly normal leading up to you know,

483
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 3: the do date and everything, and the labor and delivery

484
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 3: was actually better compared to my first so nothing seemed

485
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 3: out of the ordinary other than I had a cold.

486
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, just no, just sneezing a lot.

487
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 3: Two days after arriving home, I had so much trouble breathing.

488
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 3: One of my kids had an inhaler at the point

489
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 3: I just started to borrow with his and inhaler and

490
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 3: self medicating do not recommend, and overnight I started just

491
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 3: wheezing so much. I got up. I was telling my

492
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 3: husband I can barely breathe. He grabs our oximeter, because

493
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: you know, everybody since COVID has an up blood alximitar

494
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: measured it. He's like, you're at ninety. That does not

495
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 3: sound right, and so he rushed me to the hospital.

496
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: As it turned out, I had an asthma attack. I

497
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 3: had adult onset asthma. I had no idea that this

498
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 3: was me, and people weren't quite sure either at first,

499
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 3: because I had recently just delivered. So people are like

500
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 3: trying to rule out pulmonary embolism and scarier sounding hard

501
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,239
Speaker 3: issues that I don't know what they're called. But I

502
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 3: was put in the ICU for a day and I

503
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 3: was like, am I dying? Why am I in the ICU?

504
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 3: Like I just don't have a good sense of like

505
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 3: you know how bad it is because I was also

506
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 3: asleep most of the time, and I think I freaked

507
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 3: out the moment that I heard some patience room across

508
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,239
Speaker 3: from me there were Buddhist chants coming out of it,

509
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 3: and later on the nurse told me they're like, oh, yeah,

510
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 3: last rites for their religion.

511
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: I was freaked out.

512
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh my gosh, people die in the ICU.

513
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 3: Don't let that be me. I want to go home,

514
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 3: want to be with my new boor I want to

515
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 3: be with my family. And that was when I was like,

516
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 3: if I if I want to die today, would I

517
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 3: be proud of what I did in my life? And

518
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 3: the answer was no, I want to do something different.

519
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 3: And I only briefly shared Denie the birth announcement with

520
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 3: my corporate team. My boss reblocked it to the rest

521
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 3: of the team. She misspelled my son's name, and she

522
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 3: didn't she like completely brushed off the fact, like she

523
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 3: didn't even personally acknowledge to me. Oh my goodness, you

524
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 3: are the ice you. I hope you're Okay, there was

525
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 3: none of that In personal I was like, is this

526
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 3: even somebody I really want to spend my time with

527
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 3: going forward? Like eight hours a day?

528
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 2: Not really?

529
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 3: So say Ara sent in my resignation.

530
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, and that those events in our lives will

531
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: crystallize things, will help us see look at the past

532
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: and then look towards the future, and said, do we

533
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: do we want to continue along this trajectory. I'm curious too, though,

534
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: like when you add kids, you've got two, you're adding

535
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: a third. It changes your expenses, yes, and it also

536
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: changes maybe some of the wealth goals that you're shooting for,

537
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: especially and I'm curious to hear your take on this too.

538
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: When people say, oh, it's going to cost three hundred

539
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: thousand dollars to raise a kid, that's before you even

540
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: pay for college. One do you think that's the reality?

541
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: And two? How has expanding your family maybe changed some

542
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: of those financial goals.

543
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 3: Both my husband and I made the conscious choice to

544
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: continue working even after hitting our original fire number because

545
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 3: that original fire number was for the two of us,

546
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 3: but were like, that's just the two of us and

547
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: does not include children. So for several years afterwards, we

548
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 3: were still socking away money, so our network continued to grow. Then,

549
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 3: recognizing that one of the most expensive things that you

550
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 3: would have to pay for yourself out of pocket if

551
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 3: both of us became unemployed, as healthcare, he made the

552
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 3: conscious choice to take a job that met a lot

553
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,719
Speaker 3: of a lot of lifestyle needs, like it's not a

554
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 3: super crazy job, he can work remotely, and it came

555
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 3: with fantastic healthcare. And so that's sort of the conscious

556
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: choice that he made. And also he wasn't as driven

557
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 3: to retire early as I was. So I think those

558
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 3: are the two main things that we took care of financially.

559
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 3: Is we worked a little bit longer to build up

560
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 3: a larger nest egg which can be used to pay

561
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 3: for children's college as well. And then the one of

562
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 3: the larger ongoing costs, being healthcare, is secured by him

563
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 3: still working. Now that being said, and I do a

564
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 3: lot of forecasts for my private coaching clients who also

565
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 3: have children. I think there's essentially two decisions that can

566
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 3: really change your budget for your child. One is do

567
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: you wish to send them to private school from K

568
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 3: to twelve? And then the second is how much of

569
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: their college fund do you wish to fund. For most people,

570
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 3: I would say, look, public school is an option, and

571
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 3: it does save you a lot of money, especially if

572
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 3: you have multiple children to send them to public school

573
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 3: K to twelve. Then second, I tell most parents, take

574
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: care of your own retirement before you fund a very

575
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: large college fund, because by the time your children go

576
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 3: to college, you are much closer to retirement than your

577
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 3: children are to themselves retiring and saving up for all

578
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 3: of that. So don't feel guilty that you have to

579
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: put your own retirement as a priority over funding and

580
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 3: making sure your kids don't end up caring student loans,

581
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 3: because there's a lot of things that can happen that

582
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: can lead to your children paying off loans pretty early.

583
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: Something I'm hearing you speak to is that it's like

584
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 2: you and your husband both have taken a more practical

585
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: approach to your careers and sort of some of these

586
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: like huge life decisions that you typically make in life.

587
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: And you've got a chapter in the book talking about

588
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: your identity not being tied up in your work, and

589
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: I hear that played out here by the decision that

590
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: is like that you said that he made. It sounds

591
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: like he took a less prestigious job, but maybe that

592
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: he was able to do that because he had less

593
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: of his identity tied up into that. But at the

594
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: same time, you're able to garner all these additional benefits

595
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: like amazing flexibility, being able to work from home, awesome

596
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: health care benefits. Do you think that too many folks

597
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: are pursuing something I've heard folks talk about this, like

598
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: where it's like, oh, I want to pursue the job

599
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: that I want to be able to tell people that

600
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 2: I have, like where I can state a certain title,

601
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: and they're not thinking about the life that it gains

602
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 2: you as much as we should be.

603
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't know how college commencement speeches go

604
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: these days, but I am so tired of all of

605
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 3: those commencement speeches. During the time that I graduated from college.

606
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 3: Was just like pursue what you love, shoot for the moon,

607
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: and then you'll land among the stars or something like that.

608
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 3: Because these are often given by celebrities and CEOs who

609
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 3: were the exception. They're the exception, not the rule. Yes,

610
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 3: they made it by following what they loved, but the

611
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 3: vast majority of the college graduates they're speaking to are

612
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: never going to get to that goal, and it's irresponsible

613
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 3: to put out that as the main piece of advice,

614
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 3: whereas I'm much more practical. I'm like, do something that

615
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 3: you're good enough at that you can tolerate that, pay

616
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: the bills, and then figure out what you want to

617
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 3: do after that. But if you can't even cover your bills,

618
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: you're in for a lifetime of angst and worry. That

619
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: is just not worth it.

620
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: I'm curious to talk about the intersection of mental health

621
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: and finances too, showing that seems like something that you've

622
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: really thought long and hard about. And you've said that

623
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: most money experts they don't talk about mental health and money,

624
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: that that maybe is a little taboo or just something

625
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: that's left on the table. It does seem like we're

626
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: seeing that dam begin to break a little bit. What

627
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,479
Speaker 1: tack do you take when talking about the intersection of

628
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: our money and our brains.

629
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 3: I often have people who are deep in credit card

630
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 3: debt or are just really struggling with money come to

631
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: me and the phrase they use is I'm bad with money.

632
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,239
Speaker 3: It kind of implies that either they weren't educated or

633
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 3: they're not managing their finance as well. And that's why

634
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: they're seeing the money problems that they're seeing today. I

635
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 3: change that completely by saying, if you feel like you're

636
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 3: struggling with money, it's indicative of a deeper issue that

637
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 3: is usually not related to money at all, and everything

638
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 3: to do with your mental health and how you got here.

639
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: So the money problems are just the symptom the real disease.

640
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 3: The real issue is something deeper, usually related to mental health,

641
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 3: and I found in my coaching almost always is related

642
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 3: to some form of depression, anxiety, or build up of

643
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 3: trauma from childhood. The thing is, there's just not enough

644
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 3: funding for any scientific research to really make that case.

645
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 3: I looked into PUBMIT, I started looking for scientific evidence

646
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 3: to back up what I intuitively understood from my years

647
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 3: of coaching. It just wasn't there. There were bits and pieces,

648
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 3: and so in the research from my book, I cobbled

649
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: together what I felt were the best set of scientific

650
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 3: studies that could blend together the story. But I acknowledge

651
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: that it's still imperfect. But that's the premise of how

652
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 3: I coach now, which is, let me understand how you

653
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: grew up around money, how was it normalized or not,

654
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 3: and then were there any really traumatic experiences that you

655
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 3: went through both as a child and now some of

656
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 3: that could include divorce, loss of a loved one, a

657
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 3: really bad time at work, and those can actually explain

658
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 3: so much of your behaviors today. And then by addressing

659
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 3: the root of those events and experiences, then we can

660
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 3: actually change people's behaviors and change their money over time.

661
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: In your coaching. And not to oversimplify things like I

662
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 2: doubt it is this clear cut, but do more of

663
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: your clients approach their problems and just how they handle

664
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: their money with an abundance mindset versus folks who come

665
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: in with more of a scarcity mindset? Do you see

666
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: more of one or the other? And I'm curious if

667
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: you if you think one of those mindsets is more

668
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: challenging than the other.

669
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, say mostly scarcity, because if people had abundance mindset,

670
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 3: they're probably actually quite successful because that's what the mindset does,

671
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 3: and so they wouldn't need my help all that much.

672
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 3: So probably I come from a biased opinion that I

673
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 3: see more scarcity mindset, and I think, you know, it's

674
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 3: never going to be perfect, but I think it's helpful

675
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: for people to have the experience that I have of

676
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 3: seeing hundreds and hundreds of people's real numbers to be like, Okay,

677
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 3: some of this makes sense and some of it is

678
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 3: a little bit out of bounds, and here's like what

679
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 3: we can start doing to change things. And then also

680
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 3: I then personalize my analysis based on like. For I'll

681
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 3: just give a very broad example. If somebody grew up

682
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 3: with seeing one of their parents lose a lot of

683
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 3: money on the stock market, it's called availability bias. They're

684
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: going to grow up thinking, Okay, I'm going to lose

685
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: money on a stock market if I invest in it,

686
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 3: and they're much more likely to avoid investing because they

687
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 3: saw such a salient example of a failing And that's

688
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 3: scarcity mindset, because you overamplify one negative event, whereas it's

689
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 3: scarce in abundance mindset. You kind of have to fight

690
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 3: that childhood tendency and be like, yes, I saw something

691
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 3: really really bad happen, but I'm going to look at

692
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 3: the data and convince myself that the vast majority of

693
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 3: time that bad thing is not going to happen. And

694
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 3: that's very hard for somebody to learn that firsthand.

695
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it takes time, I feel like for people,

696
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: especially to something that happen in childhood those things. Trying

697
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: to unwrite the script that gets written is a multi

698
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: year long process, and it takes a lot of intentionality,

699
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: and if you're not being intentional, that script stays around

700
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: an awful long time. It just doesn't get undone by itself.

701
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: Part of it is mindset. But then there are also

702
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: ingrained habits that people develop when it comes to how

703
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: they handle money, especially when it comes to reckless use

704
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: of money. So how do you help people work through

705
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: changing those those habits maybe that they've gotten accustomed to.

706
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a client who has she admitted herself

707
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 3: she has a makeup problem. She said, I have a

708
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 3: lot of makeup. I never use it up. But I

709
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 3: was like, okay, tell me about it. How did this

710
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 3: come about? Well, as it turns out, two things. One,

711
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 3: her mother plays an outside uh put a lot of

712
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 3: emphasis on looking esthetically pleasing as a value growing up.

713
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 3: And two, her mom always told her always go to

714
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 3: the sale section, but she misinterpreted as a child of

715
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 3: when there's a sale, go buy something. So you can

716
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 3: notice how that got miscommunicated, and so she would always

717
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 3: be shopping makeup sales. And so once I made that connection.

718
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, there's a misinterpretation of something that

719
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 3: your mom said over and over and over to you,

720
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 3: like literally your brain interpreted as a rule. So we're

721
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 3: gonna undo that rule. Where I actually said, you know,

722
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 3: she has to unsubscribe from all sale emails from her

723
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 3: favorite makeup retailers and brands, and then she's going to

724
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 3: use up her makeup stash before she buys something new.

725
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 3: And that's just a microcosm of little tweaks that I

726
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 3: do to help people recognize how their habits have formed overtime.

727
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: Kind of like emptying that pantry before you get back

728
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: to the grocery store.

729
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you give great examples too throughout your book,

730
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 2: like you're kind of highlighting just the trigger action reward mechanism.

731
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: And you quote friend of the show Charles Douhig in

732
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 2: your book, oh as well, he's a yeah, y'all are

733
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: both able to highlight how it is that we are

734
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: responding to the stimulus around us that sometimes we just

735
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: end up becoming our own worst enemies as we thought

736
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 2: our own progress shun. We've got more to get to.

737
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: We're gonna yeah, maybe after the break we'll get to

738
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 2: the American dream and whether or not you think that's

739
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: still possible today. We'll get to that and more right

740
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 2: after this.

741
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: All right, we're back from the break, still talking with

742
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: shunks of adra, talking about cultivating a wealthy mindset, and

743
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: just so much good information already. Sean, I'm curious to like,

744
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: we talked about maybe your early adult life, but we

745
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: didn't really go back into your childhood and you ended

746
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: up you actually lived the first few years of your

747
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: life in China. I am so curious how did that

748
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: experience and the influence of your parents impact your frugality

749
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: and those early years of marriage, because, like we're talking

750
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: about here, the impact of our family of origin, It's

751
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: like it matters in how we think about and how

752
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: we relate to money.

753
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 3: It's so funny, you guys asked this because a couple

754
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 3: of weeks ago, I visited Boston, Massachusetts as part of

755
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 3: my book tour, and I got booked for a private

756
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,479
Speaker 3: corporate event. That corporation happened to be in the town

757
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: and my parents and I grew up in when we

758
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 3: immigrated to the US. It was Lexington, Massachusetts, and going

759
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 3: back there, Wow, I brought back all the nostalgia, Like

760
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 3: I was trying to relive it in writing my book,

761
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 3: like being there makes a huge difference, And I realized

762
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 3: that as a child, you don't have a lot of

763
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 3: context for how you grew up unless your parents chose

764
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 3: to tell you. But you don't. And when we were

765
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 3: in Lexington at the time, we lived literally like the

766
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 3: last street before I would no longer qualify for the

767
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 3: school district. We had one of the smallest houses, one

768
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 3: of the smallest plots, and I remember my parents did

769
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 3: everything like they did all the yardwork. My mom did

770
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 3: so much housework. My parents drove the ugliest, tiniest cars possible,

771
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 3: and it was a very frugal light.

772
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 2: Including the green car. You document that in your book

773
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: how your dad was able to get the sale or

774
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 2: get to get a massive discount because you got the

775
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 2: ugly green car. My dad used to drive a yellow

776
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: Subaru so called the bruceban.

777
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 3: Maybe I'll see that bright green once a year driving

778
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 3: around here. I'll put out to my husband, like, that's

779
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: the color of that car, because you never see it.

780
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 3: But the thing is, my parents did influenced me so

781
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: strongly through that in two ways. One they normalized frugality

782
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 3: as something not to be ashamed of, like my parents

783
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 3: did things with great attitude, Like they were just like, look,

784
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 3: you just gotta work hard towards what you wanted. Now,

785
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 3: I didn't know what they wanted, but I saw the

786
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 3: work really hard. And then the second thing was, which

787
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: is a little bit more misinformed on my end, I

788
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 3: literally thought we were the poorest people because my parents'

789
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 3: way of approaching things to seem so frugal compared to

790
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 3: what I was able to observe every now and then

791
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 3: from my friend's parents, which wasn't much. And it wasn't

792
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 3: until much later in life when my parents trusted that

793
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 3: I actually was responsible with money and they started revealing

794
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 3: a little bit more of why they did all that.

795
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 3: It blew my mind, like several instances, one that they

796
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 3: actually had enough saved to pay me full ride to

797
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 3: any school that I wanted. That was not an expectation

798
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 3: that I had, So I was like, where did this

799
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 3: come from? My dad said, that's investing. That's like what

800
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: we've been doing the last several years. And then later

801
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: on when my parents did choose to share their estate

802
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 3: planning stuff with me, and I was like, holy cow,

803
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 3: they have way more money than I ever thought that

804
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 3: they did when I realized that was what they were

805
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 3: working towards and that this actually is how you build wealth.

806
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 3: It's just that as a child, I didn't know that

807
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 3: that was what it was.

808
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 1: So you said, that's how you build wealth.

809
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: Do you think that that's a good strategy for how

810
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: you should raise your kids as well? I'm curious if

811
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: you feel similarly, I guess in how it is that

812
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 2: you and your husband are going to raise your kids.

813
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: Do you think that them essentially, like withholding that information

814
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 2: is a part of what allowed you to thrive and

815
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: to be ambitious and to go out there to create

816
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: your own thing.

817
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 3: My friends, especially those of those of my friends who

818
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 3: grew up similarly as I did in immigrant Asian American households,

819
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 3: they're like, oh my goodness, Sean, your parents are so Asian,

820
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 3: because it is a very common Asian parenting tactic to

821
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 3: you know, withold information, be really strict on children, and

822
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 3: then like boom, something good happens at the end. But

823
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 3: you're like, what the heck they what did they just

824
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 3: put me through? So I would say less emotional, no,

825
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 3: mantimulation is my hope. But I do see the point

826
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 3: because there is a phrase in Chinese food worth Sunday

827
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: which means wealth is not going to go beyond three generations.

828
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 3: The wisdom in that phrase is saying families that are

829
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 3: wealthy are eventually going to turn poor again because the

830
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 3: habits and the mindset is the hardest part to teach,

831
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 3: and if the wealthy parents then give everything to their children,

832
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 3: those children are not going to understand the value of

833
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 3: the work ethic that it takes to get there. So

834
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 3: my husband and I are trying to walk a finer

835
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 3: balance between not giving its every little thing that our

836
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 3: children want, but also giving them a you know, a

837
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 3: well life that focuses on their health, focus on their education,

838
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 3: while still making it very hopefully very important for them

839
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,399
Speaker 3: to see that it takes work. And I think for

840
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,479
Speaker 3: that reason, we actually both don't outsource all that much

841
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 3: household work, like our children see us grocery shopping, vacuuming

842
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 3: the house, washing the dishes. We could easily outsource all

843
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 3: of this, but we actually made a conscious choice to

844
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 3: make household work very visible from an early age so

845
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 3: that our children't understand there's some things that you just

846
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 3: have to do in order for life to happen and

847
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 3: that's just part of adult team Sean.

848
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: I feel like there's more pessimism about the American dream

849
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 1: these days, and I feel like I'm talking to someone

850
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: who's achieved the American dream. How would you respond to

851
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: people who think that it doesn't exist or that it's

852
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: impossible to achieve.

853
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 3: Wealth is coded, and it's your job to break the code.

854
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 3: So my parents and I, we were not born into wealth, right,

855
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 3: but we did whatever we could, both my parents, whose

856
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 3: English is not as good as mine, as well as myself.

857
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 3: Where you study how wealthy people think and work and

858
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 3: you just do your best to break into it. Now,

859
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 3: do I think I've hit a ceiling at some point

860
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 3: in my corporate career. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know,

861
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 3: because I didn't stick around long enough to find out.

862
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: But I do think that believing that there is a

863
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 3: lot to do on my end to try to figure

864
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 3: out is kind of what kept me going. I'm also

865
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 3: not as bought into the idea that a house is

866
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 3: a sign that you've made it. I think that there's

867
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 3: a lot of problems with the real estate industry in

868
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 3: the US, and I think that people can just as

869
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 3: easily build wealth through stock ownership, business ownership instead of

870
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 3: real estate ownership, so I'm not tied to what your asset,

871
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 3: your income generating asset, needs to look like. But at

872
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 3: the end of the day, I would say, look, there

873
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,479
Speaker 3: are going to be things that you're always not going

874
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 3: to have control over. You can't control the kind of

875
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 3: family you were born into. You can't control, you know,

876
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 3: certain demographic aspects that you know people might hire you

877
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 3: based on. But you can control your attitude and how

878
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 3: you choose to work within within the confines of the

879
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 3: set of circumstances you've been given. And that's what I

880
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 3: focus on.

881
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 2: Very cool talk about your faith, Sean, because you touch

882
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: on yeah, your faith, you talk, you touch on God.

883
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: I'm curious as to how much that impacts how it

884
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: is that you handle your money, because, like I mean,

885
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: I guess depending on your background, Like Joel and I

886
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: have conversations and we're like man like, sometimes it doesn't

887
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 2: really enter the equation at all. But but then when

888
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 2: you like take a step back, you realize that, like, oh,

889
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 2: this is kind of propelling or creating like a backstop

890
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: to how I see so much in the world, or

891
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: how I treat people, or how I I don't know

892
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 2: just like I guess what I believe the future holds

893
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: for us. But yeah, I'm curious for you. How does

894
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 2: it impact how how you handle your money? You already

895
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,280
Speaker 2: mentioned I guess you're generous spirit there at the beginning

896
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 2: of the episode.

897
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess. Throughout the podcast, one thing I didn't

898
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 3: really say was a goal was to get filthy rich,

899
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of that has to do

900
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 3: with my faith. Being rich is not the goal. It's

901
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: the freedom that comes with being financially responsible that we

902
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 3: were pursuing and an additional layer to our faith because

903
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 3: I have spoken on handles with Christians for their life,

904
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 3: But how can you reconcile being wealthy with what the

905
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 3: Bible says? And I was like, no, the Bible never

906
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 3: says money is bad. It says worship of money is bad.

907
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 3: And money is actually one of the most frequently mentioned

908
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: concepts in the Bible because God recognizes that it is

909
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,959
Speaker 3: one of the most seductive sources of power out there.

910
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 3: And so my husband and I we both believe that

911
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 3: we are God's portfolio managers. He chose to give us

912
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 3: some amount of income, some amount of well, some amount

913
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 3: of resources, and it is our job to give to

914
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,720
Speaker 3: God the greatest return, which is not necessarily financial return.

915
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 3: But I think a delicate balance between making sure that

916
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 3: the money is invested because the Parable of the Ten

917
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 3: Talents talks about that, and also making sure that the

918
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 3: way we choose to spend our money follows God's values

919
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 3: and principles.

920
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thanks, thanks for sharing that.

921
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 2: Well, not no Joe's gonna take his money and go

922
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 2: bury in the ground.

923
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: Right, that would be the opposite Matt, of what we're

924
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: taught in that passage. No, Sean, thank you so much

925
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: for joining us. We really appreciate it. Where can our

926
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: listeners find out more about you, what you're up to

927
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: and your new book? Awesome?

928
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 2: Thank you.

929
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 3: I'm on Instagram and YouTube under save my Sense all

930
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 3: one word, and you can also find me at my

931
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 3: website savemsense dot com.

932
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: Very cool.

933
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: We'll make sure to link to all that in the

934
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 2: show notes. Sean, thanks so much for joining us today.

935
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I have a fantastic week, all.

936
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: Right, Matt. That was a great combo. Love Seun and

937
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: her outlook on life songs of Vadra. Yeah, just and

938
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: her history is just a really producing one. And to

939
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: turn bullying into this like monstrosity per you know, financial

940
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: independence building mindset is is pretty cool. So what was

941
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: your big takeaway from this episode?

942
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 2: Well, well, I hope she wasn't bullied because her parents

943
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 2: were taken the frugal path, you know, but like, honestly,

944
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 2: it doesn't make fun of you for anything, you know,

945
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: And then like, well maybe maybe I should make that

946
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 2: my takeaway. The fact that her parents made frugality normal,

947
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 2: you know, like like they talked about it, it was a part,

948
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 2: it was their lifestyle. It's something that they did together.

949
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 2: I liked how she even her and her husband have

950
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 2: like said that they want to intentionally do things in

951
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: their day to day lives to demonstrate with their kids

952
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 2: that like no, no, no, no, you don't have a

953
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: silver spoon in your mouth or anything like that. These

954
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 2: are things that you were going to do and that

955
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 2: you were going to see us doing. And I just

956
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 2: I don't know that really resonates me. It resonates with me.

957
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: Even if you can afford to outsource it, that's.

958
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, intentionally choosing not to in order to instill certain values.

959
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 2: It's it's kind of like embracing the suck, like embracing

960
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: the fact that there are hard things that we're going

961
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 2: to do in life. In this case, these are things

962
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 2: that we can avoid doing. But it sort of sets

963
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 2: the expectation of, well, no matter what, there are going

964
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 2: to be hard things, and so the better that we

965
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 2: can I think, overcome those things. While we have an

966
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 2: option to to not necessarily go through these things, right

967
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 2: like you can.

968
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 1: Pay to avoid all of that.

969
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 2: I think it's only going to make you even more

970
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 2: resilient and capable of handling the things that where there

971
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: isn't an option to.

972
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 1: Sidestep those those hardships. Yeah.

973
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of a roundabout take away from me,

974
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 2: what about.

975
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: You, I'm gonna piggyback on that and say on the

976
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: freak gality note when shown at the beginning of the episode,

977
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: she's essentially outlining her intense resourcefulness. And I think in

978
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: a world where it is so knee jerk easy to

979
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: get almost anything we want whenever we want it, whether

980
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 1: that means just an Amazon purchase, even if we have

981
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: the money, because ah yeah, I think I need that,

982
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: let me just you know, one click to buy or

983
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: whether that is buy now, pay later, because like I

984
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: want the thing, I don't have the money, But let

985
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 1: me sign up for easy payments to get that thing now,

986
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: even though man, I really should wait and save up

987
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: to buy the thing. I want that resourcefulness, I think

988
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: is it's something that's lacking more and more. It's like

989
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: a muscle that's atrophied. And we could use some of that.

990
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: And Shung had it in spades, and it was like whatever,

991
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: not everybody can get a run controlled apartment, right, But

992
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: then she highlights a bunch of other things that anybody

993
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: can do, right borrowing hiking equipment from a friend. And

994
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: I think we could all stand to increase our resourcefulness

995
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: and to maybe do a Google search before we buy

996
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: something like I don't know, is there a tool rental

997
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 1: thing instead of me buying this tool from home depail

998
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: or loaves. There are all sorts of ways to reduce

999
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: our expenses, and part of it just takes a little

1000
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: bit of like curiosity and elbow grease.

1001
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 2: I love it, man, all right. The beer you and

1002
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: I enjoyed today was called a Three Headed Monster, which

1003
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 2: is an Imperial red Ale by New Realm Brewing Company

1004
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: here in Atlanta. Would you think I.

1005
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: Liked it more than I thought I was going to?

1006
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally delicious.

1007
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: I have not had like an imperial red in a

1008
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: long time. And I was like, oh, this is this

1009
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: is like hoppy, uh this is it's big and it's unique.

1010
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: So I really flavorful though. Yeah, I was like, oh man,

1011
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 1: I have It's been so long stuff had this style.

1012
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: I used to I remember enjoying this style. I thought

1013
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: maybe I'd grown past it, but no, I still love

1014
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: this one.

1015
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 2: What is ocillions is what I'm thinking of. That's a

1016
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 2: red ale that doesn't count. That doesn't that's not a

1017
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 2: red ale, like that is a fake red ale. This

1018
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 2: is a collide with Sam Adams and has is that

1019
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: how you say that as? I have no idea, but

1020
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 2: maybe they are a hop purveyor perhaps that's their their

1021
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 2: little symbol there. But you know what this tastes like

1022
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 2: to me? With this reminded me of Bell's Hopslam back

1023
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 2: in the day because I had a lot of hot

1024
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: flavor going on. It almost had this honey like sweetness,

1025
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 2: and yeah, just reminded me of some of those those

1026
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 2: good old days when you would seek out a fresh

1027
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 2: drop of hop slam. You'd like, line up, line up

1028
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 2: a package door, They'll get you some of that.

1029
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: One of those first annual drops that people would be

1030
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: like hungering for, and Bell's I don't know if based

1031
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: on making caps. I'm pretty sure it's.

1032
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 2: Just it's just not an in demand like it used

1033
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: to be.

1034
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: A bunch of beers that used to be so hot

1035
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,240
Speaker 1: are now just you know, hanging out on store shelves

1036
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: these days.

1037
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, So if that's one that you remember being delicious,

1038
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 2: look for a three headed monster, guessing that you'll enjoy it.

1039
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, but uh, all right, wrap it up, let's do

1040
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: it all right. That's it for this episode.

1041
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 2: Find show notes up on the website at howdomoney dot com.

1042
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 2: That's gonna be it, buddy, So until next time, best

1043
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 2: Friends Out, Best Friends Out,