Speaker 1: What's that at the bed? It's spooky, Hey, jooky, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure it's dead. It's coming this way.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, house, I guess.
Speaker 1: Niroz Jasens, Hey, it's me Raz. How you doing. I'm good,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty good. Yeah, I'm good. We are talking about
Speaker 1: ouija boards on this episode today and next week as well.
Speaker 1: I decided to make this a two parter, and I'm
Speaker 1: talking to Karen A Dolman and Karen A dolmen Is.
Speaker 1: I don't know if she uses this word for to
Speaker 1: describe herself, but she's like an expert re lease as
Speaker 1: close to being an expert as I think there are
Speaker 1: when it comes to ouija boards, and you know, they
Speaker 1: come up so much on the show that I feel
Speaker 1: like we need to get a little bit of insight
Speaker 1: on this show about are they evil, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Are they real? What's the history? So we get into
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff today and I really enjoyed the
Speaker 1: conversation and I think you will too. I was thinking
Speaker 1: maybe I should read a listener story or two, and
Speaker 1: I decided to go check out the reviews on Apple Podcast,
Speaker 1: and oh my god, you guys, we went from five
Speaker 1: stars to four point nine stars. I'm a little hurt.
Speaker 1: I don't know how that happened, So please rate the
Speaker 1: show five stars and let's get it back to five.
Speaker 1: I can't I can stand to see the four point nine.
Speaker 1: But it's a great place where you could leave a
Speaker 1: listener story for me, or you don't have to. You know,
Speaker 1: you have to do anything. It's right. Five stars. That's
Speaker 1: a nice thing to do. But this one was posted
Speaker 1: in a five star review by Gabby and Gabby writes, Hi, Roz,
Speaker 1: I'm a longtime listener and have been wanting to share
Speaker 1: one of my many stories for a long time, but
Speaker 1: I've never had the courage to do so until now.
Speaker 1: This is the story all about how my sister's doppelganger
Speaker 1: gave me a visit. I have always had very abnormal
Speaker 1: stuff go on in my house that only I ever
Speaker 1: seemed to notice. So I thought that it was my
Speaker 1: young mind playing tricks on me. But as I grew
Speaker 1: oh and listen to your podcast, I have realized that
Speaker 1: what I thought was crazy could possibly have been real.
Speaker 1: So this particular case happened when I was about eleven
Speaker 1: years old. It was about six in the morning and
Speaker 1: I was laying in bed asleep facing the wall in
Speaker 1: my bedroom that my bed was pushed up against. I
Speaker 1: suddenly woke up because I felt as if someone was
Speaker 1: watching me, and I turned towards the open part of
Speaker 1: my room to see my sister sitting in my desk
Speaker 1: chair not where I left it, in front of my window,
Speaker 1: holding the curtain open and looking out onto the street.
Speaker 1: My sister would usually come into my room in the
Speaker 1: morning to wake me, so I absent mindedly told her
Speaker 1: to leave me alone. She then very creepily released the
Speaker 1: curtain to my window that she was holding, waved at
Speaker 1: me with that hand while smiling, then picked the curtain
Speaker 1: back up and started staring out the window again. I
Speaker 1: turned back over to face the wall really without thinking,
Speaker 1: but after a moment I thought, wow, that was extremely weird,
Speaker 1: and I turned back to face her, just to find
Speaker 1: her gone and my desk chair back under my desk
Speaker 1: where I left it. I was freaked out and immediately
Speaker 1: went to my sister's room to find her asleep and snoring.
Speaker 1: I was super weirded out and could not go back
Speaker 1: to sleep. Now, my mother is also a big believer
Speaker 1: in the paranormal, but she seems to always think that
Speaker 1: everything is a demon or has really bad energy. When
Speaker 1: I told her what happened, her first reaction was it
Speaker 1: was a demon that disguised itself as my sister and
Speaker 1: wanted me to follow it, and she wanted to sage
Speaker 1: my room. I don't know where she got that idea
Speaker 1: about the demon from, but being eleven years old, it
Speaker 1: creeped me out. Yeah. Since then, there has been countless
Speaker 1: other minor incidences where I know that there is either
Speaker 1: a ghost or spiritual presence in my room. But I
Speaker 1: firmly believe that it was a warm and gentle and
Speaker 1: friendly presence, and instead of wanting it out, I am
Speaker 1: completely willing to share the space of my room with
Speaker 1: it for the time being. Thanks for reading my story.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for leaving that five star review
Speaker 1: and sharing that story. Gabby, I mean that actually kind
Speaker 1: of sounds like astral projection. Maybe it wasn't like a
Speaker 1: doppel gang, or maybe it was your sister in her
Speaker 1: sleep state, being like like I'm gonna go peek out
Speaker 1: Gabby's window. I don't know, it could be, but that
Speaker 1: is interesting what you brought up about your mother thinking
Speaker 1: that it's a demon impersonating your sister, because I do
Speaker 1: talk to Karen about that throughout this conversation. At some point.
Speaker 1: I think it's in this first part we talk about that,
Speaker 1: because that is obviously something that a lot of people
Speaker 1: think goes on, like you know with Ouija boards and stuff,
Speaker 1: where it's like demon pretending to be your loved one.
Speaker 1: And Karen had some good insights, so stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1: I want to read another one. Give him more, Give
Speaker 1: him more. Okay. I went to the Facebook group called
Speaker 1: Ghosted by rous Dressfales and I saw this one posted
Speaker 1: by Casey Casey Wrights. I have had several experiences in
Speaker 1: my life, but I'll share one that was over the
Speaker 1: span of about eight months. My husband and I were
Speaker 1: twenty one and twenty two and just got our first
Speaker 1: apartment and had our first baby. I believe the first
Speaker 1: time I saw him, our ghost, I was getting ready
Speaker 1: for bed and taking out my contacts. I was looking
Speaker 1: in the mirror and saw a tall young man with
Speaker 1: glasses walk past the open bathroom door towards our bedroom,
Speaker 1: where our son was sleeping in his basinette. The bathroom
Speaker 1: had a door going into the hall and one going
Speaker 1: into the bedroom, so I walked into the bedroom and
Speaker 1: no one was there. He actually looked a lot like
Speaker 1: my husband, so I thought it was him. He was young, tall, white,
Speaker 1: and skinny with glasses, very similar to my husband. Another time,
Speaker 1: my husband and I were sitting on the couch watching
Speaker 1: a movie and I looked over into the kitchen and
Speaker 1: he was standing at the stove looking at us between
Speaker 1: the cabinets above the stove. Oh my god, what are
Speaker 1: you doing that moment? Are you like to your husband?
Speaker 1: Like look over there? Don't say anything, just turn Oh
Speaker 1: my god. One time I was coming home from work
Speaker 1: and went to check the mail, which was in a
Speaker 1: little covered area in the courtyard. As I was walking
Speaker 1: back to our second floor apartment carrying our son's carrier,
Speaker 1: I looked up and saw him peeking through our blinds.
Speaker 1: I called maintenance to come and check the apartment before
Speaker 1: I would go in, and they didn't find Anyone. Last
Speaker 1: notable time, it was Mother's Day and my husband stayed
Speaker 1: home that evening so my cousin and I could have
Speaker 1: dinner to celebrate my family had celebrated earlier that day.
Speaker 1: I came home and had left my keys at home,
Speaker 1: so was knocking on the door for my husband to
Speaker 1: let me in. He's a really hard sleeper, so I
Speaker 1: started knocking on the window to our bedroom, then went
Speaker 1: back to the front door. He came several minutes later,
Speaker 1: a little freaked out. He said he woke up to
Speaker 1: being nudged by our ghost and him saying, Hey, someone's
Speaker 1: at the door. What. Also, something that has been discussed
Speaker 1: a lot in paranormal podcast is ghosts usually being an
Speaker 1: old time clothes. Our ghosts had jeans and a shirt.
Speaker 1: He looked straight out of the nineties early two thousands.
Speaker 1: I probably saw him more, but thought it was my husband. Oh. Also,
Speaker 1: I've heard babies and fighting make them more active, and
Speaker 1: we had a new baby and our neighbors would fight
Speaker 1: really loud all the time. I mean, it sounds like
Speaker 1: a nice ghost. I mean, that's that's so funny, like
Speaker 1: wake up, someone's at the door. Wow. It's kind of
Speaker 1: spooky but kind of sweet. I don't know, I like it.
Speaker 1: These are good stories, guys, keep them coming, keep sending
Speaker 1: me the stories, and as always, I want to do
Speaker 1: a listener episode too, So send me your emails at
Speaker 1: ghosted by Rows at gmail dot com with the subject
Speaker 1: line listener episode and maybe we can talk on the
Speaker 1: phone and record this whole idea of like a late
Speaker 1: nineties two thousands ghost. It got me thinking because, Okay,
Speaker 1: I just talked to Katrina Weidman. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: release those episodes coming soon as well. But one of
Speaker 1: the things that you'll hear us talk about was she
Speaker 1: had mentioned like sometimes during paranormal investigations, you can turn
Speaker 1: on music of a time period and maybe that could
Speaker 1: get some activity going, make the ghosts feel comfortable. The
Speaker 1: ghosts might be like, oh, that's my bop, and then
Speaker 1: they'll come out and start dancing. They just can't help.
Speaker 1: But so I don't know, like late nineties two thousands goes.
Speaker 1: You could put on some like let's see here he
Speaker 1: has like a jeans and too. You could put on
Speaker 1: I don't know, blank Win eighty two or something. Maybe
Speaker 1: he'll come out Backstreet boys. Oh okay, wait, you guys, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can't believe. Okay, I gotta share this with you.
Speaker 1: So this is not paranormal related at all. But I
Speaker 1: work with the legendary Bingo here in Los Angeles, and
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be back. I did it before
Speaker 1: the pandemic and now we're back and I'm doing. I've
Speaker 1: been doing a lot of events with them, a lot
Speaker 1: of like private events and stuff, and it's really cool.
Speaker 1: We get to do all kinds of just insanely fun,
Speaker 1: incredible events. And we did one a Pride event this
Speaker 1: weekend where we were like, I guess you could say
Speaker 1: we're like kind of the opening act. I mean, we
Speaker 1: played like an hour of bingo. Me and the Bingo
Speaker 1: boy who owns the company created this this really super
Speaker 1: fun drag queen Bingo that happens in LA and all
Speaker 1: over the place and on Zoom and stuff as well.
Speaker 1: But the two of us we kind of like opened
Speaker 1: the show for two members of in Sync and two
Speaker 1: members of the Backstreet Boys, and they performed and it
Speaker 1: was pretty incredible, and I wish I would have taken
Speaker 1: more videos and pictures and stuff, but you can watch,
Speaker 1: like if you go to YouTube and type it in
Speaker 1: they were there at the Grove here in LA this weekend.
Speaker 1: There's tons of pictures and videos all over the internet
Speaker 1: of the events. It was pretty incredible. But I when
Speaker 1: I do these kinds of events, it's like I'm in
Speaker 1: kind of like work mode, so it's kind of hard
Speaker 1: to like, like I wish I could vlog better, so
Speaker 1: I wasn't really able to do that, but I did
Speaker 1: make a vlog on my Patreon this weekend and there's
Speaker 1: some of that in there. I also went to go
Speaker 1: see Jackie Beat and Cherry Vine at Casita Dout Campa,
Speaker 1: my favorite place here in La where I do my
Speaker 1: live ghosted shows, or I have in the past and
Speaker 1: hope to one day soon. So I did a little
Speaker 1: video taken taking you with me, So go check that
Speaker 1: out on my first tier of Patreon this week and
Speaker 1: the bonus clip on my second tier Patreon this week.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can kind of tell you about it,
Speaker 1: but like you will understand it more on the tail
Speaker 1: end of this episode. So once you fall in love
Speaker 1: with Karen, then you're gonna like be like, Okay, I go,
Speaker 1: I gotta go listen to some more. But that's patreon
Speaker 1: dot com, slash Raws dres Fales and we're actually talking
Speaker 1: about like this episode is mainly about Oija boards, but
Speaker 1: Karen is she does a lot of different things, and
Speaker 1: she starts talking about these extraterrestrials that she has a
Speaker 1: relationship with. You know, she she knows them, and I
Speaker 1: don't know how else to put it, They're like they
Speaker 1: guide her and she has this relationship with these extra
Speaker 1: terrestrial beings. And uh, we talk about that a little
Speaker 1: bit more on Patreon, so go check that out. Anyway,
Speaker 1: let's talk about wija boards. Here is my conversation, Part
Speaker 1: one with Karen A Dolman on with the show. All Right,
Speaker 1: you guys, I have my ouiji board open and I'm
Speaker 1: going to see who comes through. Okay, a r e.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's moving so fast. Karen A Dolman, Hello.
Speaker 2: Hello, I just popped in through the portal of the
Speaker 2: wija boards.
Speaker 1: Hi. How are you? Oh?
Speaker 2: I'm having a great day and how are you doing?
Speaker 1: I am wonderful. You know. Well, first of all, I
Speaker 1: just noticed that I I said wig, which is such
Speaker 1: a like it's real deep in me to say that.
Speaker 1: I don't know why why is that? Why do I
Speaker 1: say that? We all know it's not o g Oh.
Speaker 2: I'm impressed that you even know that a lot of
Speaker 2: people don't know that. So okay, you can say ouigi now.
Speaker 2: But originally when the board and plant chat were made,
Speaker 2: it was pronounced wee ja. And that's even how it
Speaker 2: was trademark and patented and in fact, some of the
Speaker 2: original boards we're sold with the pronunciation on him to
Speaker 2: pronounce it as we ja.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because for me as a kid, it was always
Speaker 1: like the wigi board pig. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Listen, you'll hear me say ouigi interchangeably. It's okay to
Speaker 2: say it. I think what's happened just in our lexicon
Speaker 2: of words, It's like it's become so pop culture to
Speaker 2: say ouigi now that it's not wrong too. I just
Speaker 2: kind of am old school, and I'll still say wee
Speaker 2: ja for the most part. But if you say ouige,
Speaker 2: it's all good.
Speaker 1: Well, and what are all the other terms? There's what
Speaker 1: talking board good? What else can we say? Is wichboard?
Speaker 1: Is that the same thing? I've heard that?
Speaker 2: Well, you could say whichboards, spirit board, talking board, wija board,
Speaker 2: but just everybody out there nose. Wija board is a
Speaker 2: patent and trademark name. So not all boards are called
Speaker 2: wija boards, but all boards are talking boards or spirit boards. Now,
Speaker 2: whichboard is also a name. You know, it came out
Speaker 2: of the movie Wichboard, But you know there's boards that
Speaker 2: actually has a title witchboard on them. But just remember
Speaker 2: that if you use the word oigi or Oija. It's
Speaker 2: only if it's patent and trademarked.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, which board with Tawny Katine?
Speaker 2: Yes, rest in peace. And by the way, I've got
Speaker 2: to tell you this, ros I know she just passed.
Speaker 2: We are going to be at Michigan Para Con with
Speaker 2: some really exciting wichboards stuff with us.
Speaker 1: Just what does that mean?
Speaker 2: Well, that's about all I can say right now. We
Speaker 2: have a wonderful Haunted museum we'll be doing there this year,
Speaker 2: Michigan PARICN and we will have some stuff from the
Speaker 2: movie that's Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, here's what I have to say about that.
Speaker 1: I probably have shared this on this podcast. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: But Tawny Katine uh and my other producer Land, we're
Speaker 1: obsessed with her. And I got him Land a cameo.
Speaker 1: Do you know what cameo is?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: I got him at Tawny Katine cameo for Christmas and
Speaker 1: it was the best cameo I've ever seen. It has
Speaker 1: changed the way that I do it. I think that
Speaker 1: she's just incredible. And then she passed away.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: So we love her.
Speaker 2: We love her so much too. All this talking board
Speaker 2: collectors love her as well.
Speaker 1: So wait, so basically, what if I'm getting this straight,
Speaker 1: Wija is sort of like Kleenex.
Speaker 2: Correct. Well, well, yeah, so cleans we all call tissues Kleenex.
Speaker 2: Very good, very good analogy.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Okay, Well we've just really kind of jumped
Speaker 1: into this. But uh, you are you're kind of the
Speaker 1: Oichi lady from what I from what my sources tell me,
Speaker 1: I mean, you're a weed a therapist, you're a we geologist,
Speaker 1: which might be my favorite word of all time. Yes,
Speaker 1: you're the officer and director of the Talking Board Historical Society.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure you've answered this a billion times,
Speaker 1: but don't worry. We'll keep it fun and fresh. How
Speaker 1: did you become the Wiga Lady?
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's kind of a tongue in cheek.
Speaker 2: I'm an usual person talking about the Wija Board. For
Speaker 2: all your listeners out there, who who are news to
Speaker 2: my work, I've been doing the board for forty eight years.
Speaker 2: But everybody says, oh, tell me you're bad evil stories,
Speaker 2: And I got to be honest, people, My stories are
Speaker 2: so life affirming, riveting, eye opening, and just pretty exciting
Speaker 2: that I haven't had to make bad experiences so I
Speaker 2: think my message, out of all the messages out there,
Speaker 2: is one of a more positive message that you can
Speaker 2: too learn to channel using a Wija board. We can
Speaker 2: get into this a little bit more. But I think
Speaker 2: that's why I've created a name as like the Wiga Lady,
Speaker 2: and I know Coast to Coast Georgeanuri calls me the
Speaker 2: Miss Wigiauigia Lady and all these different names and monikers
Speaker 2: that they've come up with over the years. And it's
Speaker 2: just because I'm I'm first of one, I'm the only
Speaker 2: female in the talking about historical society group, and so
Speaker 2: you know, we got all these male collectors, there's me
Speaker 2: and then also you know, its like, again, it's a
Speaker 2: rarety that somebody talks more positively about the board, and
Speaker 2: so it just kind of stuck.
Speaker 1: I guess, well, I appreciate that, because, yeah, there is
Speaker 1: a stigma. And you know, the way that this podcast
Speaker 1: started out maybe almost three years ago, was me just
Speaker 1: being like a person that likes this stuff, doesn't know
Speaker 1: much about it, like just all paranormal things. And I've
Speaker 1: talked to so many people, and I will admit that
Speaker 1: before talking to more people that know more than me,
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, it's they're evil, stay away and
Speaker 1: I and I've definitely opened my eyes to the fact
Speaker 1: that that's not necessarily the case. And I still talk
Speaker 1: to a lot of people that it comes up and
Speaker 1: they're just like, no, can't do it, it's evil. So
Speaker 1: I hear that you're the perfect person to talk to
Speaker 1: to be like, now that's not the case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I'm more matter of a fact. I mean,
Speaker 2: I just look at what my experiences have been and
Speaker 2: since I've been out in the public speaking about in
Speaker 2: my experiences since twenty twelve, I've worked with so many
Speaker 2: people around the world with this tool, helping them really
Speaker 2: learn to use it in the direction they want to go.
Speaker 2: But I'm really good at teaching how to use it
Speaker 2: to maybe talk to your angels, your guys, your deceased
Speaker 2: loved ones, your pets, all kinds of different sentient beings
Speaker 2: and consciousness in any dimension. So we can go way
Speaker 2: out there if you want today. But that's what I've
Speaker 2: specialized in and my background I am a therapist, so
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised when I channel I tend to get
Speaker 2: more positive, helpful things for people for personal development and growth.
Speaker 2: And you know, that's my background too, so I tend
Speaker 2: to attract more of those energies to me for that reason.
Speaker 2: You know, when you work with this tool, it's not
Speaker 2: the board itself that does this work. It's it's our
Speaker 2: own selves we do this work. It's just a tool
Speaker 2: that's neutral. We use it to channel like a talisman
Speaker 2: or like a focal point. It just becomes the excuse
Speaker 2: or permission slip, if you will, to slip into the
Speaker 2: other realms and make these contacts. So it's really ourselves
Speaker 2: that do this work, and so I tend to be
Speaker 2: more positive. You know, the glass is half full, not
Speaker 2: half empty, and therefore I tend to attract more of
Speaker 2: that to me, those kind of energies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, My thing that I always think about
Speaker 1: is why is the weija board the evil one? But
Speaker 1: like all the other ways of communicating through paranormal investigation,
Speaker 1: why is that not? Yeah? Point, yes, it has such
Speaker 1: a stigma.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm right, Okay, so think about it. People use Okay,
Speaker 2: I call myself old school. Get a little plantchet. It
Speaker 2: moves around on that board. There's no electronics now. All
Speaker 2: the new tools they have today, the EVP and all
Speaker 2: the different meters k two meters and Frank's box and
Speaker 2: obelisk and all these different tools. I'm sure you've heard
Speaker 2: about rods. These tools are doing no different than what
Speaker 2: I am. They just tend to be electrical, but you're
Speaker 2: still asking for some kind of interference or something to
Speaker 2: come through. Where I'm just using myself. It's like I'm
Speaker 2: the channel allow this energy to come through. It's no different.
Speaker 2: We're both are tapping into these energies. Now here's an example.
Speaker 2: You could sit yourself in a room that's well lighted,
Speaker 2: and you could put yourself in the intentions and if
Speaker 2: you're and if you're in the belief, the space of
Speaker 2: believing this could happen, you could call in the energies.
Speaker 2: And why is that not evil? I mean maybe some
Speaker 2: people it is, but that's no different than what we're doing.
Speaker 2: When we use something as a focal point, where it's
Speaker 2: electronic device, tro cards, pendulum, it could be the dowsing rods,
Speaker 2: it could be the eaching the ruins or the wigi
Speaker 2: aboard or black mare scrine or crystal ball. I mean,
Speaker 2: I work with all these different tools because that's what
Speaker 2: they are. So to say this one's evil and those aren't.
Speaker 2: It's just a farsity. It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: Do you believe in haunted objects? Like do you believe
Speaker 1: that an object could have some type of energy attached
Speaker 1: to it?
Speaker 2: You know, the question would be do people believe that
Speaker 2: it's amazing? We always say it's the object that does
Speaker 2: so much magic in our lives or has these abilities.
Speaker 2: The truth is we give away our abilities every time
Speaker 2: we do that. Do I believe things appear to be haunted? Yes?
Speaker 2: And there could be many reasons for that. Could it
Speaker 2: be your own psychokinesis, telekinesis, Could it be your own projections,
Speaker 2: could be a tulpa thought, project it project It could
Speaker 2: be so many different reasons why that's happening. But yet
Speaker 2: we tend to go, oh, that's a haunted all and
Speaker 2: not thinking maybe we're putting our own energy and projected
Speaker 2: onto the doll, thus it becomes apparently haunted. Okay. So
Speaker 2: I don't want to say no and yes, I want
Speaker 2: to say what does the person believe? Personally? In my collection,
Speaker 2: I have a lot of boards. I have like a
Speaker 2: fifty plus. I think I'm about fifty four to fifty
Speaker 2: five boards now, which is nothing compared to my fellow collectors,
Speaker 2: they've got over hundreds and thousands of boards, so my
Speaker 2: collection is consider small. Not one of them is a
Speaker 2: haunted board. It's not part of my belief system, and
Speaker 2: I see them as neutral. So who's haunted. Maybe it's
Speaker 2: me because I'm the one that can bring in all
Speaker 2: the energies. So it's a tricky question. You asked, let
Speaker 2: me say, yes, it's haunted, and I'm saying, well, it's
Speaker 2: not that easy to say.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, now I want to dissect something here because
Speaker 1: I've told this story before that probably twelve years ago,
Speaker 1: I was out of good will because I love, you know,
Speaker 1: my thrifting and my bargaining, and I found a wage
Speaker 1: board for a dollar, and so I bought it. But
Speaker 1: I now you're making me rethink this. Because I had
Speaker 1: in my mind this thing could be haunted. I told myself,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to play it because I was too
Speaker 1: I was too afraid that it was going to something
Speaker 1: bad was going to happen with it. At the time,
Speaker 1: but I was thinking, this thing is going to be haunted.
Speaker 1: But then nothing happened. I kept it in my room
Speaker 1: for like two days, and then weird things started happening
Speaker 1: around my apartment and it continued for years. Now could
Speaker 1: this be that maybe I projected it, or I've got
Speaker 1: telekinesis or what do we think?
Speaker 2: You're asking a great question, and I love it because
Speaker 2: you're open to rethinking this and thinking on different levels. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So am I saying something can't be haunted? Not saying that.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, let's rethink how what haunting means. I
Speaker 2: think we were so one dimension and say hanting means, oh,
Speaker 2: it must be a ghost attached to it. But couldn't
Speaker 2: this haunting be considered something else? For example, and I'll
Speaker 2: get back to your reach ward story. Let's say you
Speaker 2: go into a place that's considered haunted and you can
Speaker 2: tap into the energies, and people say, oh, the story
Speaker 2: is this always rise there was a little girl that
Speaker 2: died here. It's always that there's a little girl that
Speaker 2: died here in a blue dress, and everybody goes and
Speaker 2: sees that or wants that. But then for a second,
Speaker 2: let's rethink this. Could it have been a confluence of
Speaker 2: energies that opens a portal and all different kinds of
Speaker 2: energies can come through. But yet our interpretation, our belief
Speaker 2: system only allows us to see it on one dimension
Speaker 2: and maybe not for what else it could be, Or
Speaker 2: maybe it's so much more. You see, we only can see,
Speaker 2: think about this with their eyes a very small spectrum
Speaker 2: of the light theory spectrum. There's so much we can't see.
Speaker 2: But some animals can tap into these other realms. We
Speaker 2: know the light spectrum exists, that's way beyond ours. We
Speaker 2: see just a small portion. So I'm saying, let's don't
Speaker 2: limit ourself that it's only, oh, a haunted item and
Speaker 2: your boards you bought. Sure, maybe there's something that came
Speaker 2: attached to it, but let's reth think this and see
Speaker 2: could it be something else as well? And then when
Speaker 2: we're start opening ourselves to more possibilities, the ability to
Speaker 2: communicate and reach into these unseen dimensions develops and grows.
Speaker 2: And I would say that's been my success with using
Speaker 2: the board. I didn't limit it to oh, it's old,
Speaker 2: it's gotta be haunted, or you only talk to the
Speaker 2: dead with it. Instead, I said what else can I
Speaker 2: do with this? And I found myself naturally beginning to
Speaker 2: talk to people's higher selves, and they are live people,
Speaker 2: animals that are alive and dead, whether they're never really dead,
Speaker 2: they're just called transitioned. I start talking to interdimensional beings,
Speaker 2: I start talking to extraterrestrials, I start talking to ethereal beings, angels,
Speaker 2: go on and on and on. Because I opened myself
Speaker 2: to say it's not just a haunting, or it's not
Speaker 2: just a ghost.
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe.
Speaker 2: Because I'm so open, I'm helping project what energies can
Speaker 2: come through. I'm not saying it's not real. I'm saying
Speaker 2: there's energies out there. And maybe because I'm so open
Speaker 2: into the realm of interpretation or possibilities that I widened
Speaker 2: it to so much more of the experience. My guide,
Speaker 2: who I talked to all the time on the board,
Speaker 2: came through more recently and I was with Patrick Keller,
Speaker 2: who was on the show, and we went to haunting
Speaker 2: a place that was haunted, the Haunted Castle House up
Speaker 2: there in Missouri, and we met of which the owners
Speaker 2: of the place and the guides had told me tell
Speaker 2: them this, and they had a message for me to
Speaker 2: provide them before we started our investigation. And they had
Speaker 2: all the ringma row tools, everything that lights and beeps
Speaker 2: and sounds and projects and all this really cool stuff,
Speaker 2: and I just brought my old school cool tool, the
Speaker 2: wig aboard. So I sat down and said, they want
Speaker 2: me to tell you that maybe, just maybe for a
Speaker 2: moment to spend judgment, that this is you're just here
Speaker 2: talking to deceased people. Possibly your place is a conduit
Speaker 2: for all kinds of energies coming through unless see what happens.
Speaker 2: And sure enough for myself during this investigation, and I
Speaker 2: know they got it too. I was sensing like a
Speaker 2: sat squashed there. I was sensing, you know, different time periods.
Speaker 2: We were sensing people that might have lived in the house.
Speaker 2: I was also sensing other beings that had nothing to
Speaker 2: do with the house. So it's like, if we're open
Speaker 2: to it, we allow so much more to come through.
Speaker 2: But once we say it's just this, then we close
Speaker 2: ourselves down to all the possibilities of what else could
Speaker 2: be coming through.
Speaker 1: So would you say that the reverse is true as well?
Speaker 1: You know, if you're going into it in a bad way,
Speaker 1: you can find the bad mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you're gonna get what it is that your your
Speaker 2: I was fixated upon. If you're fixated upon just the evil, okay,
Speaker 2: you're gonna bring something negative to and even if it's
Speaker 2: not negative, you're going to see it in the negative light.
Speaker 2: It's like you put those set of rose colored glasses on,
Speaker 2: you put those negative light glasses on. Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 2: a great point. So it can work either way. And truly,
Speaker 2: this is how it works in life. Think about it.
Speaker 2: Just in our regular three to men world, if we
Speaker 2: have a chip on our shoulder, our day is going
Speaker 2: to be kind of crummy. I mean, we're going to
Speaker 2: tend to draw that out of people. And it's mostly
Speaker 2: because the way we're we're responding or reacting to them,
Speaker 2: you know, so we have to look at it that way,
Speaker 2: as in the decease as in the living. It's really
Speaker 2: no different.
Speaker 1: So do you think that that mentality could be what
Speaker 1: has contributed to the Luija board being seen as evil?
Speaker 1: You know, people approaching it as it's something that's evil,
Speaker 1: and then whatever happens, they interpret that as evil, and
Speaker 1: then the story continues with it being evil.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and then we have to throw and that's that's great.
Speaker 2: Personal beliefs really is everything. However, personal beliefs are shaped
Speaker 2: by we got institutions.
Speaker 1: Relay religion.
Speaker 2: Thank you, ding ding ding ding ding. You get Hunther points.
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right. See, so you have a lot of
Speaker 2: the religious groups saying that is bad and evil and
Speaker 2: they have no experience or that a few lines in
Speaker 2: the Bible that might have said something they or decided
Speaker 2: to interpret that way. But I got to tell you guys,
Speaker 2: men kind has always tried to control humanity and they
Speaker 2: control them by fear and so just and this is
Speaker 2: not the dog on any religion, because I really enjoy
Speaker 2: all different types of religions. I think there's some beauty
Speaker 2: and everything. But just even just in our institutions or
Speaker 2: our society or cultural viewpoints, we're told our limitations that
Speaker 2: give us boundaries and little boxes to sit within. And
Speaker 2: I'm here to say, bust out those walls and go
Speaker 2: beyond your boundaries and be surprised that you're going to
Speaker 2: find so many other things exist. And it's not what
Speaker 2: you were told. Okay, it's not what you were told
Speaker 2: or thought or taught to believe. And so, yes, religion
Speaker 2: is a big one. So I would have to say, Roz,
Speaker 2: it's a personally shape by all these other institutions.
Speaker 1: Ooh, I'm so happy we're having this conversation because this
Speaker 1: is totally what this podcast is like, you know again,
Speaker 1: like I came in with these certain beliefs and I've
Speaker 1: just left myself open and I hear from a lot
Speaker 1: of people that listen to this show the same thing. Oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that until you had this person on
Speaker 1: or that person on. So I think you're talking to
Speaker 1: a lot of people with open minds and open years
Speaker 1: and open hearts, and we're here to to take this
Speaker 1: in and I think it's lovely. Going back to it
Speaker 1: being evil though, because I mean, come on, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not dwelling on the bad side of Luigia,
Speaker 1: but I do want to squash it as much as
Speaker 1: we can.
Speaker 2: Well, I like talking about it, Okay, good, I'll tell
Speaker 2: you why. I'll tell you life is full of polarities,
Speaker 2: and life is all about dualism. I mean, we have
Speaker 2: the right, the left, the good, the bad, the up,
Speaker 2: the down, all this stuff, you know, binaries, binary, absolutely,
Speaker 2: and that's important to know, you guys, you don't exist
Speaker 2: without the other. Okay. So I'm not saying everything's all
Speaker 2: peachy keen. I'm just saying you can focus on what
Speaker 2: you want in life and through the opposite you know what,
Speaker 2: you want or don't want, okay, And I'm saying that
Speaker 2: dark is it contained and is contained in the light,
Speaker 2: just like the yin yang symbol, the white and the
Speaker 2: black symbol that you know spirals around. You got a
Speaker 2: black dot in the white part and you got a
Speaker 2: white dot in the black part, to say, it's contained
Speaker 2: within each And so if we can look at things
Speaker 2: not as bad and good, but as here's an expression,
Speaker 2: a full spectrum of ways of responding or behaving or
Speaker 2: codes or whatever you want to call it, ethics or
Speaker 2: morality or whatever it is, what you like or don't like.
Speaker 2: It's like knowing that then you have a lot more
Speaker 2: possibility to choose from. And life really is about learning
Speaker 2: how to work with the polarities. That's what we're here
Speaker 2: in third dimension. This is why we have binary stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean, commuter language is all binary code. You know
Speaker 2: when one zio zero one one zero one one one
Speaker 2: zero zero one, that's all it is, and that creates
Speaker 2: the whole computation for the computers. And that's very much
Speaker 2: in life. So I think it's important to have a
Speaker 2: conversation about both sides of it and not get fixated
Speaker 2: in one, but to understand we have a choice always,
Speaker 2: and our choice is what allows us to vacillate between
Speaker 2: the polarities.
Speaker 1: Well, I think, I mean, I find it damaging to
Speaker 1: talk about the paranormal in such black and white terms sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, like when people are like, that's evil, that's bad.
Speaker 1: I think that that's you know, especially when people jump
Speaker 1: to those conclusions, you know. I think I think that
Speaker 1: that's where these beliefs continue.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I think that it perpetuates more of you know, paranormal
Speaker 1: investigators saying wijiboards are evil and then now everyone thinks
Speaker 1: they're evil because they're experts or whatever. I think that
Speaker 1: that's that's something that has happened as well.
Speaker 2: So Well said it's very damaging. Is just just call
Speaker 2: that out. It's like it's like saying, oh, I'm going
Speaker 2: to go in this investigation and sit with a candle
Speaker 2: in the room, like I said earlier, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to call in you know, the these energies and heay
Speaker 2: talk to me. I want to see who's here, you know,
Speaker 2: And that's all good, good and cool. But once you
Speaker 2: pull a weediboard out, it's bad. So I really try
Speaker 2: to help people to get beyond that and to be
Speaker 2: see it as neutral. But you but we project here,
Speaker 2: we are back to the projections again. We project on
Speaker 2: the board what it can be or can't be, must be,
Speaker 2: or shouldn't be, and we put all this crap on
Speaker 2: it where it's just really a neutral tool. And so, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm talking about it in a positive experience. You're right,
Speaker 2: you're saying, well, hey, Karen, you're talking all positive about it.
Speaker 2: I'll say, because that is what I chose to get
Speaker 2: from it. I'm not saying to get negative from it.
Speaker 2: It doesn't exist. That does exist. I mean, I believe
Speaker 2: that evil exists in the hearts of humanity. We do
Speaker 2: such horrific things to each other and you're doing it
Speaker 2: around the world right now, and so that's where you
Speaker 2: find evil. And so it's through our own projection of
Speaker 2: what we want to call to it or call with
Speaker 2: a call out of ourself through these tools. So yeah,
Speaker 2: we have to to have a conversation to really understand
Speaker 2: what we do. We got it we have, or any
Speaker 2: device for that matter, any tool we used to reach
Speaker 2: the unseen dimensions. We have to talk about the polarities
Speaker 2: of it. For sure.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the exorcist is to blame.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's so funny about that, I would say,
Speaker 2: on one level, maybe to a certain generation. And then
Speaker 2: after that was the witchboard kind of thing you learned
Speaker 2: about progressive entrapment. But you got understand this. As talking
Speaker 2: board historians, what our group does is we do the
Speaker 2: research on the facts about this tool, whether it's talking
Speaker 2: board or wija board. And what we found is even
Speaker 2: when it first came out, and it first came out
Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety ninety one, although there was a predecessor
Speaker 2: in eighteen eighty six that was out there, and that
Speaker 2: one was called a witchboard. Interesting enough, so when they
Speaker 2: came out, people started using them. Basically the spiritualist community
Speaker 2: snatched them up and used them for a way to
Speaker 2: talk to the decease. You know, we had the Civil
Speaker 2: War in the United States, and then as we moved
Speaker 2: forward into the early nineteen hundreds, we do we had
Speaker 2: World War one, World War two. People were doing It
Speaker 2: was a heyday of spiritualism and people were finding new
Speaker 2: ways to communicate with their deceased loved ones.
Speaker 1: And a lot of them were Connor Day.
Speaker 2: Oh, there were so many Charlatans back then. You said
Speaker 2: it was, that's exactly right. So many charlatans and just
Speaker 2: just stories snake oil, you know, definitely, and then there
Speaker 2: was some good ones too, But so people snatch this up,
Speaker 2: and right from the get go ras there was always
Speaker 2: the projection as well from different groups, we could say, institutions,
Speaker 2: different people, differentlaef systems that said that's evil, that's my
Speaker 2: evil voice, that's evild, don't do that. Okay, So that
Speaker 2: pretty good, isn't that? It sounds like the extorsist there.
Speaker 2: It's bad, not bad. So that seriously, that's so it
Speaker 2: started really when the tool came out. Always when you
Speaker 2: have something that's mysterious in nature, oh, in your and
Speaker 2: you're talking to the forbidden, it's like that then in
Speaker 2: itself becomes this thing that is scary and spooky and evil,
Speaker 2: and you can't do that. And if you, and why
Speaker 2: should you bill do that, only the religious clergy can
Speaker 2: do that, or only so and so can do that,
Speaker 2: only the charlottan over there can do it, but you can't.
Speaker 2: So it's like taking back into your own hands control
Speaker 2: of your life, control of the of what you're going
Speaker 2: to communicate with. It's a very liberating thing. But yes,
Speaker 2: there was always fear about it. But then in the
Speaker 2: seventies and that came out in nineteen seventy one, the
Speaker 2: Book of the Excio sist. But in seventy three Get
Speaker 2: This Here is a Good Story. December twenty sixth, nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy three, the movie came out. I got my very
Speaker 2: first Oija board December twenty fifth, nineteen seventy three, one
Speaker 2: day before The Exorcist came out? Do Do Do?
Speaker 1: Did you talk to Captain Howdy?
Speaker 2: Well? I was the age of eight, and I didn't
Speaker 2: know anything about Captain Howdy, and my parents went let
Speaker 2: me watch that movie, and I think I thought about
Speaker 2: the time, I was probably eighteen or nineteen twenty, and
Speaker 2: I thought that is hysterical. You know, I thought that
Speaker 2: was hysterical. I never I don't really tried to talk
Speaker 2: to Captain how You. Thought the whole thing was silly.
Speaker 2: So that was not a thing for me. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just interesting, not the synchronicity of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, okay, I also have this this thought
Speaker 1: or theory or something as someone that doesn't know much.
Speaker 1: But I've always felt like with Weicha boards there you
Speaker 1: can buy them, you know, right next to Candyland and Monopoly, Monopoly,
Speaker 1: and so kids like just buy and then they have
Speaker 1: no clue what they're doing, and then yeah, it becomes
Speaker 1: this scary thing. I mean, this whole time, it's always
Speaker 1: been marketed as a way to talk to the other side, right, kind.
Speaker 2: Of it's been marketed as a game.
Speaker 1: But you're right.
Speaker 2: The way they position it on the back of the board,
Speaker 2: it says, oh, ask questions of the unseen, the answers
Speaker 2: will come forth. They don't really see where it's coming from.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So they're specific about that.
Speaker 2: It's kind of open about you know, you're gonna be
Speaker 2: met with great surprise and after a while it's going
Speaker 2: to work for you and you'll get these messages. They
Speaker 2: don't ever say it's the dead. It's the spirituals that
Speaker 2: grabbed it and started using it back in the late
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds who said it was
Speaker 2: for the deceased. It was really a group of business
Speaker 2: men and one woman who came forward and developed this tool.
Speaker 2: And they never really said either are you talking to
Speaker 2: the dead? They just said it's amazing what it does.
Speaker 2: So they always positioned it and market it that way,
Speaker 2: so it's never really, oh, you gotta talk to the
Speaker 2: It was more like it's the great unknown. But because
Speaker 2: people said, and you have this projection in this association
Speaker 2: for you know, many years, you know, one hundred and
Speaker 2: thirty years now or something one hundred and thirty forty,
Speaker 2: one hundred and cavy to the math, maybe one hundred
Speaker 2: and forty years now, it's it's been positioned that way
Speaker 2: to communicate with the deceased. So people tend to associate that.
Speaker 2: And see Parker Brothers who bought it from William Fold
Speaker 2: and now has bro owns. If they still keep that
Speaker 2: position the same, they don't really say who's coming through, Ah,
Speaker 2: your imagination, your projections, and it just keeps it more
Speaker 2: mysterious in nature. And they said, but it will work,
Speaker 2: It'll fascinate your friends for hours or something like that.
Speaker 1: So when did it become like in the toy section?
Speaker 2: Okay, so when it was first patent and trademarked, it
Speaker 2: was patented under the auspice of a novelty item or
Speaker 2: toy or game, so it's always sold as a toy
Speaker 2: or game. So when it was sold by William Fold
Speaker 2: Company in nineteen sixty six, It was sold to Parker
Speaker 2: Brothers that year and their greatest selling toy at the
Speaker 2: time was Monopoly. So one year after they had this
Speaker 2: new device, Theuisia board, they were already marketing as a
Speaker 2: toy because it always has been marketed as a game
Speaker 2: or toy. They outsold their number one game that first year.
Speaker 2: We just outsold Monopoly, so like over a million copies
Speaker 2: that first year alone, and so they realized, you know,
Speaker 2: that's the strategy. Make it mysterious. It still it always
Speaker 2: has been put in the toy section inbek use it
Speaker 2: eight years and up, and you know what, it's going
Speaker 2: to be fun and what I find you hit on
Speaker 2: something really interesting ros a few minutes ago when you
Speaker 2: said that the kids get it and they get their
Speaker 2: scary experiences. You know, since there really are no directions
Speaker 2: other than a few little snippets of things to try,
Speaker 2: it allows you to kind of create your own rules
Speaker 2: and rituals around it. So a lot of fear comes
Speaker 2: out of that as well. It's like our super stitions
Speaker 2: come alive with this tool because we don't know what
Speaker 2: do you do with it? You know, as a kid,
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do, you know, sit across
Speaker 2: from your friend, put your hands on and ask questions, well,
Speaker 2: what else do you do? How do you make this
Speaker 2: thing work? And so you start projecting again upon it. Well,
Speaker 2: let's create a ritual. We got to burn candles, we
Speaker 2: better sage it, we better call on the demons, we bet,
Speaker 2: you know. And people write to me and tell me
Speaker 2: this all the time, and so they create these wonderful
Speaker 2: rituals around it that seem to help it, augment it,
Speaker 2: or scare them. It depends what they want to get.
Speaker 2: But most kids, when they get it, and if they
Speaker 2: are kids and use it, even teenagers all include in
Speaker 2: that category. Two. They've had one or two experiences and
Speaker 2: it was always scary, and they were usually a sleepover
Speaker 2: or with some friends, maybe even drinking or something, doing
Speaker 2: something silly and then using this tool, and of course
Speaker 2: they're going to get scared. That's what they that's where
Speaker 2: they're using it and the lights are off and the
Speaker 2: next thing they hear the wind hits the window. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, a ghost is here, you know. And then
Speaker 2: that's their experiences, and they they put the board away,
Speaker 2: never use it again.
Speaker 1: You're moving it. No, you're moving it. Stop.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's gotta be a ghost. It's the name that
Speaker 2: we just called it, right, it's my great grandmother, you know.
Speaker 2: It's things like that. So you create this whole ambiance
Speaker 2: around it. And that's and I got to say, that's
Speaker 2: the beauty of it too. I mean, I support that.
Speaker 2: I support people using this tool the way they choose
Speaker 2: to and create their own rituals around it. But what
Speaker 2: do you want to get out of it? Ultimately, people
Speaker 2: say to me, Karen, I want to use this, and
Speaker 2: I say, what do you want to use it for?
Speaker 2: And then they may say, well, talking to my deceased
Speaker 2: loved ones. I said, okay, that's your focus. Create a
Speaker 2: ritual around that. Bring them in. Maybe you have a
Speaker 2: photograph there, or you want to talk to aunt Edna
Speaker 2: and you call her in. You got a picture there.
Speaker 2: I mean, create your ritual around it, I say, And
Speaker 2: so you get to create your own mysterious workings. And
Speaker 2: one of my colleagues, Gene Orlando, he owns the museum
Speaker 2: at talkingboards dot com. Fantastic site. You can learn a
Speaker 2: lot on there anyway, and he's been on my show
Speaker 2: a few times too, and you can hear him speak
Speaker 2: about his background with the boards but he coined a
Speaker 2: word called we justitions. It's taking your superstitions and adding
Speaker 2: them to the board, and thus they become we justitions.
Speaker 2: And so it's people get really clever and unique with this,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of interesting to hear about them. So
Speaker 2: that's kind of what happens.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of two stories that I hear all the time.
Speaker 1: The first story I'm thinking of is I was talking
Speaker 1: to aunt Edna, and then the more I talk to her,
Speaker 1: it turned out she was a demon. There's that one,
Speaker 1: a demon doing an impression of aunt Edna. And then
Speaker 1: the other story I hear is people doing Luigia, maybe
Speaker 1: not really getting a response or whatever, and then three
Speaker 1: am they're sleeping and there's somebody in the room and
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, sorry I missed your call. I'm here now.
Speaker 1: You know that situation. So what do you have to
Speaker 1: say about those?
Speaker 2: That's great? I get the same ones too. So people
Speaker 2: will say to me, and I've using the board now
Speaker 2: forty eight years, forty eight years. Next month it'll be
Speaker 2: and I'll starting my forty ninth year views the board.
Speaker 2: So people say, oh my gosh, she's talking evil spirits
Speaker 2: that are pretending to be her guides, and I'm like, really,
Speaker 2: forty eight years later and I've had nothing but great experiences.
Speaker 2: You think they're just gonna haunt me now in my
Speaker 2: forty ninth and fiftieth.
Speaker 1: Year they're really committing it's a.
Speaker 2: Sleeping sleeping you know, demon or something like a sleeper
Speaker 2: sale sleeper demon demon. I'm like, oh, come on, you
Speaker 2: guys so well.
Speaker 1: Or maybe it's like a Pixar movie or something where
Speaker 1: they were demons but they've just like you've trust them
Speaker 1: about the lights. Maybe now they're no longer demons and
Speaker 1: they're like, you know what, that whole demon thing's not
Speaker 1: us anymore.
Speaker 2: Right, we turned over a new leaf. It's time for
Speaker 2: us to change. We've been doing this for thousands of
Speaker 2: years and now we're gonna go a new light.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, who knows.
Speaker 2: But the thing is this, it's again, it's seen through
Speaker 2: my own experiences, in my own viewpoints, and I call
Speaker 2: it my filters of my belief system. And so I
Speaker 2: have this filters my belief system, and that's what they're
Speaker 2: gonna come through as So somebody else could sit and
Speaker 2: sit on the board next to me, have their own board,
Speaker 2: and we could be trying to tap into the same energy.
Speaker 2: He might get a whole different message than I do
Speaker 2: because they're just tapping a different aspect of an energy,
Speaker 2: you know. Okay, here's an example. I'm gonna do it
Speaker 2: in people terms. Have this girlfriend of mine and she
Speaker 2: told me about a friend of hers. She's like, Oh,
Speaker 2: he's a pain in the ass. He comes and stays
Speaker 2: at your house. He makes a mess, he leaves, he
Speaker 2: leaves coffee all over the counter, he doesn't clean up.
Speaker 2: So I let him spend the night at my house.
Speaker 2: And I said, Gene, it's it's all good. Spend the
Speaker 2: night at my house.
Speaker 1: Whatever.
Speaker 2: And he gets up, makes his bed tied is it,
Speaker 2: makes coffee, cleans it up, puts his dishes away, and
Speaker 2: leaves and leaves me, you know, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: And I said, well, that's interesting. Why was he like
Speaker 2: this with you and why is he like this with me?
Speaker 2: I had different standards of expectations. And I think because
Speaker 2: he saw that he was going to respect that, she
Speaker 2: was just kind of like more bitching. And I think
Speaker 2: he's going to say, well, whatever. So it's like, it's
Speaker 2: how you approach somebody, how you approach And I'm going
Speaker 2: to say somebody like a person in this life that
Speaker 2: we're talking to each other or even in the spirit realm.
Speaker 2: The energy is there, how do you approach it? What
Speaker 2: do you expect of those spirits? And you're gonna find
Speaker 2: when there's a higher expectation, that's what's going to show up.
Speaker 2: So when you said Roz, well maybe they said turn
Speaker 2: over a new leave because she helps U see the light.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to disagree that can happen.
Speaker 1: Sometimes that should be your reality show where you make
Speaker 1: over demons and convert them to nice spirits.
Speaker 2: Well, I will tell you what I've had. Some come
Speaker 2: to me that have been lost and they tell me
Speaker 2: this and it's not my it's not me judging them.
Speaker 2: It's them saying I need some help on what do
Speaker 2: you need help from? And they come and I help
Speaker 2: them find their way into the light or if you
Speaker 2: want to say proverbial light or literal light. They actually transform.
Speaker 2: I've seen that and I'm not surprised. I'm also a psychotherapist,
Speaker 2: so you know I do this with real people in
Speaker 2: real life, you know what I mean, or a lot
Speaker 2: of people, I should say, So you know you bring yourself,
Speaker 2: you can't separate yourself from this medium, from this tool.
Speaker 2: You can't separate yourself from the session. So you're going
Speaker 2: to bring out that which comes to you. Now, if
Speaker 2: I've had negative experiences, I have had somewhere like beings
Speaker 2: have come through and maybe customed me. I didn't really
Speaker 2: know how to majorly control this situation or session. I was.
Speaker 2: I was getting better at learning how to do that,
Speaker 2: and I've had some of that. But the thing I say,
Speaker 2: if you get anything that comes through you feel like
Speaker 2: it's less than positive or less than what you want,
Speaker 2: then I just say, hey, bye bye, you can't be
Speaker 2: here anymore. And I usually pick up the boards and
Speaker 2: I wipe it ceremonially with my arm or my sweatshirt
Speaker 2: on my shirt. I wipe it off and I put
Speaker 2: it back down, and I have people say what do
Speaker 2: you do? And I go, I'm just getting rid of
Speaker 2: that energy. No more, Bye bye, you can't come on
Speaker 2: my board. And I gotta tell you it works every time,
Speaker 2: because it's like I shift something in me that brings
Speaker 2: in a whole nother energy.
Speaker 1: Ooh.
Speaker 2: I always tell people what you harbor when you start
Speaker 2: a session is what you're gonna get. So check your
Speaker 2: baggage at the door and try to start for a
Speaker 2: neutral space or from at least neutral but or from
Speaker 2: a place of joy. And then you're going to track
Speaker 2: great energies.
Speaker 1: But the thing with a ghost coming back later or
Speaker 1: whatever does that?
Speaker 2: What is that?
Speaker 1: Is that well thing?
Speaker 2: You brought up a good thing? And that had people
Speaker 2: talk about this. I've had experiences too where you might
Speaker 2: use the board and communicate with the energy, and the
Speaker 2: energy wants to stick around, and that can happen, and
Speaker 2: it depends what kind of energy you're talking to. Now
Speaker 2: you get when it comes and scares you that it
Speaker 2: may be your response to it, or maybe the fact
Speaker 2: that you know you probably should have gave it better boundaries.
Speaker 2: People said, you can't do that. I go, yes, you can.
Speaker 2: I have boundaries, and I set these boundaries early nineties
Speaker 2: I started getting pretty goodt using the board after about
Speaker 2: fifteen years of using it, so early nineties I said
Speaker 2: some major boundaries where I said, if you want to
Speaker 2: communicate with me, whether it's through the board or off
Speaker 2: the board, and I see spirits and I see all
Speaker 2: kinds of different things, and I have conversation with them
Speaker 2: off the board too. I said, then you know what,
Speaker 2: don't come and surprise me in my sleep. You can
Speaker 2: come through my dreams, but you can't just sit there
Speaker 2: and hover over me or the bed and scare the
Speaker 2: heck out of me. That's not loud. And so I've
Speaker 2: done these boundaries, and it took you a while to
Speaker 2: build that up, and there's a lot of techniques for that.
Speaker 2: That's a whole nother story, hold another show. But doing
Speaker 2: that in itself set up this grid work. I'm going
Speaker 2: to call it energy work around me where they know
Speaker 2: that because I do readings. When I do readings, I
Speaker 2: ask for the energies to come through that can help
Speaker 2: me read for this person. And then when that happens,
Speaker 2: I invite in their spirits of a high vibration who
Speaker 2: have the best interests of heart for this person I'm
Speaker 2: reading for or for the message that I'm going to
Speaker 2: bring forth, and then they can come through too. But
Speaker 2: there's there's a you set up a boundary for yourself
Speaker 2: and that that does require some inner work on yourself
Speaker 2: as well as learning some techniques. But that's this is
Speaker 2: more that's more more advanced wag aboard work or advanced
Speaker 2: spiritual work. But that's something that's necessary when you start
Speaker 2: really getting the communications coming through. So yes, Ros, there's
Speaker 2: possibilities that that can happen. People have done that before.
Speaker 2: But you don't need a board for those things to happen.
Speaker 2: And many people can attest to that as well. Well.
Speaker 1: Before you set up those boundaries, were you having people
Speaker 1: hovering over your bed at night?
Speaker 2: I was having visitations and I can't just say it
Speaker 2: was all just people.
Speaker 1: Tell us a ghost story, tell us a ghost story.
Speaker 2: Gosh, I have you guys, so many things have happened
Speaker 2: to me over the years, and it's not just because
Speaker 2: of the board, it's just myself. Well, so okay, we
Speaker 2: back up. So at the age I remember, back to
Speaker 2: the age of two, from the age of two to five,
Speaker 2: I had what everybody would call an imaginary playmate, but
Speaker 2: it was not. It was definitely a bean. And I've
Speaker 2: learned since when I became a lot older looking back
Speaker 2: in hindsight, that that was actually an elemental being that
Speaker 2: was part of my spirit guide collective. I call them
Speaker 2: the collective group of spirit guides I have. And this
Speaker 2: little being would come to me and talk to me
Speaker 2: about my life of my family. I would like who
Speaker 2: these people that are tried to tell me what to do,
Speaker 2: and it would give me answers and we'd play with me.
Speaker 2: And my mom always said, who are you talking to
Speaker 2: in there? I said, don't you see, it's my friend.
Speaker 2: Daki was his name, and she goes, there's nobody here.
Speaker 2: If you're gonna go to school, you can't be doing this.
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, i gotta put Daki away. So I
Speaker 2: thought I put Daki away, and really I kind of
Speaker 2: put them to the side. But then I discovered the
Speaker 2: Ouiji boar at the age of eight, and that's when
Speaker 2: just everything blew up again. I was able to talk
Speaker 2: to all these different beings, mostly was deceased people. But
Speaker 2: then when I got really good, probably when I was
Speaker 2: a teenager college, I started talking to all different kinds
Speaker 2: of deceased beings and then it just kept growing from there.
Speaker 2: So along the lines from the age of two up
Speaker 2: to where I am now, I still have visitations from
Speaker 2: different types of beings and sometimes are interdimensional. I've had
Speaker 2: some extraterrestrials come to me. There's one I don't I'm
Speaker 2: not ready to talk about yet. It's in my book
Speaker 2: I'm writing right now. It's pretty profound. It's probably probably
Speaker 2: my most special, gosh, the most incredible eye awakening, eye
Speaker 2: opening experience ever, and that that will be out in
Speaker 2: the next book I'm writing right now. I know I
Speaker 2: can't tell you, but I will drop drop some other ones.
Speaker 2: So when I was a lot younger, and this is
Speaker 2: even pre Wigia board. Okay, everyone's gonna go well, it
Speaker 2: happened to her because she was using the Wigia board. No, people,
Speaker 2: this was happening before I was using a Oigia board.
Speaker 2: I've always had spirits come to me. I had the
Speaker 2: grace come to me, and this is like in nineteen gosh,
Speaker 2: I started early late sixties, early seventies, and then it
Speaker 2: even happened after I had the board. But these I
Speaker 2: didn't know what they were, but these little beings would
Speaker 2: come and stare at me and scare the heck out
Speaker 2: of me, and I'd have these nightmares and I'd I'd
Speaker 2: see in my room and then I wasn't sure if
Speaker 2: it was I sleep or awake, and then I'd scream
Speaker 2: and my parents said, there's nothing in here, go back
Speaker 2: to sleep, you know, I'll get something to cry about,
Speaker 2: you know, And I was like, oh my god, I was,
Speaker 2: so I was terrified of the dark for years. It
Speaker 2: wasn't until I think it was nineteen seventy nine eighty
Speaker 2: when Whitley Strouper wrote a book called Communion. It came
Speaker 2: out and I saw the creature's face on that book
Speaker 2: and I went, BINGO, that's what I saw all those
Speaker 2: years ago, a decade earlier. I go, that is what
Speaker 2: I was seeing, And so I began that's I realized
Speaker 2: it was those little extraterrestrial beings that were coming and
Speaker 2: we had a relationship. But it was scary because I
Speaker 2: didn't know how to interpret it. And it was scary
Speaker 2: because they would come and I'd be paralyzed. You that's
Speaker 2: pretty scary for young kids, scary for an adult. So
Speaker 2: they they were some of the first beings that would
Speaker 2: come to me. But there was another group of beings
Speaker 2: that came around the same time. And these beings I
Speaker 2: all the Guardians. And I remember one time and I
Speaker 2: was in second grade, so I got the waygeboard when
Speaker 2: I was in third grade. I was in second grade.
Speaker 2: This pre wee ja again and again, you guys, I
Speaker 2: always was so open clairvoyant. Claire Audience, Claire Centience, My
Speaker 2: Clarees are very open, especially when I was a young child.
Speaker 2: So I had these beans that would come to me,
Speaker 2: and one I remember even Christmas Eve, and so they
Speaker 2: would come at auspicious times or near an auspicious times.
Speaker 2: So I would say, oh, that's Easter bunny. Oh that
Speaker 2: must be the tooth fairy, you know, right around Easter,
Speaker 2: right around Christmas, or at least a month before Christmas,
Speaker 2: so I could say, oh, that's Santa Claus checking on me.
Speaker 2: So these beans would come, and what they'd look like.
Speaker 2: They were these large I mean tall. They filled the door,
Speaker 2: but I didn't see a body or form, but it
Speaker 2: was like huge light. And I'd say they because it
Speaker 2: felt like it almost felt like it was a maybe
Speaker 2: male female. I wasn't sure because but I truly know
Speaker 2: they're adrogynists, because I've spoken to him since. But they
Speaker 2: would come and I could hear this more feminine voice,
Speaker 2: Hey do you think she's asleep? And then this more
Speaker 2: masking voice said, well, let me go check. And one
Speaker 2: of them walked over to me and I saw it
Speaker 2: and I go, oh my god, it's Santa Claus and
Speaker 2: it's helpers up butt. I closed my eyes. They're gonna
Speaker 2: think if I'm awake, he's gonna, you know, see Santa Claus. Right.
Speaker 2: It's like, close my eyes and I'm like trying to.
Speaker 2: When you get your eyes closed, you're nervous. They start blinking, fluttering.
Speaker 2: I'm like, don't do that, don't do that. Hold your
Speaker 2: breat no breathe, hold your breat no breathe. Okay, he
Speaker 2: puts his hand.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I felt a hand touched me on my face, on
Speaker 2: my eye, just lay there for a moment, very loving.
Speaker 2: I felt like this rush of unconditional love flow through me.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, that's so calming. Then
Speaker 2: he backed away. I thought, okay, no, look and they
Speaker 2: were gone. But they've come. They used to. That was
Speaker 2: the first time I remember them coming. They came throughout
Speaker 2: my childhood for many times, and every time they would
Speaker 2: come to the doorway, I felt this instead of feeling
Speaker 2: the freaked out feelings when the little grays. These guys
Speaker 2: were amazing, I immediately feel this rush of love. I
Speaker 2: just felt so safe and I was like, oh, take
Speaker 2: me with you, you know, I want to be with
Speaker 2: you guys. I was just so loving, and I remember
Speaker 2: telling my parents about this. They're like, oh God, you're
Speaker 2: the one that sees Santa Claus. You're the one that
Speaker 2: sees tooth firs. You're the one sees Easter Bunny. You're
Speaker 2: the one. I'm like, but they're here, you know, what
Speaker 2: do I tell you know? They didn't blame me, but
Speaker 2: I learned later on their names actually called the Guardians.
Speaker 1: Thank you to Karen A. Dolmen And if you want
Speaker 1: to hear a little bit more about the Guardians, that's
Speaker 1: what we're talking about on Patreon this week. Get a
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash rolesdres Falles. You can also watch
Speaker 1: me vlogging and some of my recent la adventures this
Speaker 1: past weekend, and tune in next week because Karen will
Speaker 1: be back. We will be doing some listener questions that
Speaker 1: I went on the Facebook group and I said, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: I got Karen A. Dolman, she knows all about weija boards.
Speaker 1: You got some questions, send them on in. I got
Speaker 1: a bunch of great questions, so we do that next week.
Speaker 1: We'll have her answer those. And I would also like
Speaker 1: to give a shout out to Patrick Keller, who listened
Speaker 1: to this show as a fellow podcaster and recommended her
Speaker 1: as a guest, So thank you so much for that,
Speaker 1: and anyone listened to the show. If you know of
Speaker 1: somebody cool with a cool ghost story or whatever, let
Speaker 1: me know. I always appreciate that because I do do
Speaker 1: this show every single week, so I'm always looking for guests.
Speaker 1: So let me know you know how to get a
Speaker 1: hold of me. Please rate the show five stars. Get
Speaker 1: me back to five stars, not this four point nine shit.
Speaker 1: Please rate it five stars on Apple Podcasts. Leave a
Speaker 1: ghost story in a comment or just you know, maybe
Speaker 1: a nice comment or no comment. That's fine. Joined the
Speaker 1: Facebook group ghosted by roz dres false and follow me
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Hernandez and I'm on cameo rozdres fales
Speaker 1: Um I might be forgetting something. I don't know some
Speaker 1: of your listener stories to ghosted by rosigmail dot com
Speaker 1: with the subject line listener episodes and I hope you
Speaker 1: have a great week. I love you all, both living
Speaker 1: and dead. But if I didn't ask you to haunt me,
Speaker 1: don't haunt me. Okay.
Speaker 2: Back Star a podcast network